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View Full Version : Is The Ref Alignment Effecting Scoring?


bigbluedefense
09-14-2010, 08:28 AM
I noticed scoring has been down in week 1 compared to last year. In fact, even in the PS, scoring as a whole has gone down.

I think the difference is the ref can no longer be used as a pick anymore. With the spread getting so popular, that slot WR and his ability to pick his CB in space was vital.

Now that is gone, and the slot WR is not going to be as effective as he used to be.


Thoughts?

I personally love it. I'm a defensive guy, so any advantage to the defense is a good thing in my book.

Michigan
09-14-2010, 08:30 AM
**** offense. Too many rule changes favoring the passing game in recent years. About time we see a change that helps the D.

bigbluedefense
09-14-2010, 08:49 AM
I also feel that in general, that college is just producing more athletic defensive linemen than offensive lineman, and that is effecting pass protection as well.

With defensive linemen being able to rotate, and align in multiple fronts, the oline is just a step behind when it comes to adjustments. Plus there just aren't as many olinemen who can match the athleticism of the dlinemen, who get freakier and freakier athletically as the years go by.

The # of "poor" offensive lines in comparison to defensive lines is definitely in favor of the defense.

Grizzlegom
09-14-2010, 08:55 AM
Holding penalties were also way up from what I remember this week. Don't know if that's a product of the ref being moved or just sloppy play in week one but I heard a number of announcers saying 'that flag was thrown by the referee that was moved behind the line. You won't be able to get away with that stuff anymore...'

brat316
09-14-2010, 08:59 AM
More holding calls for sure. The arm to the neck thing, James Harrison would get it 2-3 times every game and would never get it called. This week they actually threw a flag for holding Harrison.

bigbluedefense
09-14-2010, 09:00 AM
Yeah, it's about time. Holding penalties are finally being called.

Until Ginger boy Polian sees his oline holding too much and tries to get the rule changed.


I wish Strahan played in this era. Strahan was held more than any DE I ever seen.

tjsunstein
09-14-2010, 09:09 AM
Holding penalties really slowed down any flow to the game but I guess that's what we get as a product from lazy/bad offensive lineman.

So yes, I guess indirectly the ref alignment had an impact on scoring because holding penalties stalled drives and even voided touchdowns.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-14-2010, 09:16 AM
No, defenses are playing well. Props to them for doing a good job. I don't think ref alignment has anything to do with it. C2 beater is still a C2 beater. Smash and NCAA concepts are still the same no matter where the ref is. I don't see it as a big deal.

bigbluedefense
09-14-2010, 09:18 AM
No, defenses are playing well. Props to them for doing a good job. I don't think ref alignment has anything to do with it. C2 beater is still a C2 beater. Smash and NCAA concepts are still the same no matter where the ref is. I don't see it as a big deal.

You don't think this alignment effects crossing routes or post routes?

I think using the ref as a pick was a huge advantage for the offense in the past.

Ive seen our own Steve Smith use the ref as a pick tons of times last year in the slot.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-14-2010, 09:29 AM
You don't think this alignment effects crossing routes or post routes?

I think using the ref as a pick was a huge advantage for the offense in the past.

Ive seen our own Steve Smith use the ref as a pick tons of times last year in the slot.


No, not as much as you're thinking. I am sure they used the Umpire as a pick, but it wouldn't impact scoring that much. Plus when you are drawing up that play you're not saying use the U as a pick or use him to you're adv. Your depth would be under the Sam but over the Mike.

I don't see it as a big deal at all. You're beaters and concepts are based on the defense not alignment of the officiating crew.

bigbluedefense
09-14-2010, 09:36 AM
No, not as much as you're thinking. I am sure they used the Umpire as a pick, but it wouldn't impact scoring that much. Plus when you are drawing up that play you're not saying use the U as a pick or use him to you're adv. Your depth would be under the Sam but over the Mike.

I don't see it as a big deal at all. You're beaters and concepts are based on the defense not alignment of the officiating crew.

Just speaking from minimal (emphasis on minimal) experience at CB, I know pressing the slot becomes much easier when you don't have to worry about him picking you with the ref on a crossing route.

in zone coverage the effect is minimal, but in man coverage, from a defensive perspective at least, I feel that its pretty significant.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-14-2010, 09:44 AM
Just speaking from minimal (emphasis on minimal) experience at CB, I know pressing the slot becomes much easier when you don't have to worry about him picking you with the ref on a crossing route.

in zone coverage the effect is minimal, but in man coverage, from a defensive perspective at least, I feel that its pretty significant.

Yeah, maybe helps you. But as a coach, you don't really care where the U is. If he is there, the player can use him, if not, it's still the same concept, which has to be designed well. From there then, the route has to be ran correctly.

If I am the WR coach, and you're pressing # 2, I'd tell # 2 or my Y or H. to attack your leverage, and at 3 yards, break at an angle. If it's a drag route, I would tell him get your body square and run the route at a depth of 2 yards at the heel of the DL.

So you would be giving them yardage ( depth ) indicates for routes. You're not really concerned with the officiating position. Also, I am scouting where you spot drop, and how your Lbs play, so then I can run other concepts above too.

Basically not worried about the U. All I care is what your specific players are doing, and what your front and secondary are doing.

Shiver
09-14-2010, 09:46 AM
Passing offenses generally don't take off, league-wide, at the beginning of the season. I wouldn't read too much into any trends after one week. It is something that I thought of, but then again I thought the elimination of the force out call would have had a bigger impact than it did.

bigbluedefense
09-14-2010, 09:50 AM
Yeah, maybe helps you. But as a coach, you don't really care where the U is. If he is there, the player can use him, if not, it's still the same concept, which has to be designed well. From there then, the route has to be ran correctly.

If I am the WR coach, and you're pressing # 2, I'd tell # 2 or my Y or H. to attack your leverage, and at 3 yards, break at an angle. If it's a drag route, I would tell him get your body square and run the route at a depth of 2 yards at the heel of the DL.

So you would be giving them yardage ( depth ) indicates for routes. You're not really concerned with the officiating position. Also, I am scouting where you spot drop, and how your Lbs play, so then I can run other concepts above too.

Basically not worried about the U. All I care is what your specific players are doing, and what your front and secondary are doing.

Yeah I understand from a coach's perspective its minimal, if you want to create a pick, there are plays designed to do that so you don't care about the ref.

But from a player perspective, this makes defending in man a little bit easier.

I'm expecting to see teams use more free release formations and bunch formations to combat this, that will free up the slot WR more.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-14-2010, 09:50 AM
Passing offenses generally don't take off, league-wide, at the beginning of the season. I wouldn't read too much into any trends after one week. It is something that I thought of, but then again I thought the elimination of the force out call would have had a bigger impact than it did.

Yeah it's kind of hard because there is no game tape. I know as coaches it's a pain in the butt using last years tape. I am sure these NFL coaches use pre season too, but that's where you rely on the quality of your position coaches to in game adjust and give the OC the right information to call plays.

From there you pray, your OC is well organized and has structured his call sheet efficiently.

Saints-Tigers
09-14-2010, 09:51 AM
Seemed like an unusually sloppy opening weak for offense in general, not just passing.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-14-2010, 09:52 AM
Yeah I understand from a coach's perspective its minimal, if you want to create a pick, there are plays designed to do that so you don't care about the ref.

But from a player perspective, this makes defending in man a little bit easier.

I'm expecting to see teams use more free release formations and bunch formations to combat this, that will free up the slot WR more.

We always use bunch. We feel we can run the ball off of it better. I won't be surprised if we use it more this year with Bradshaw who can create something out of nothing. Gives him more choices when he uses his vision to find a hole to hit.

bigbluedefense
09-14-2010, 09:55 AM
We always use bunch. We feel we can run the ball off of it better. I won't be surprised if we use it more this year with Bradshaw who can create something out of nothing. Gives him more choices when he uses his vision to find a hole to hit.

Bradshaw looked pretty mediocre on Sunday. He was dancing way too much out there. My boy Jacobs looked better.

I think it was jitters on his part. He didn't run that hesitant in the PS. He tried making a mountain out of a mole hill way too many times in the 1st half vs the Panthers.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-14-2010, 10:06 AM
Bradshaw looked pretty mediocre on Sunday. He was dancing way too much out there. My boy Jacobs looked better.

I think it was jitters on his part. He didn't run that hesitant in the PS. He tried making a mountain out of a mole hill way too many times in the 1st half vs the Panthers.

First game jitters, but Bradshaw was making things out of nothing in the first half. Run blocking stunk in the first half. 2nd half Bradshaw had a sick run. Very elusive and shifty. In the end, that combined with vision will allow us to be successful. We don't need perfect blocking for our running game to be successful then. Less stress on the OL and TE position.

bigbluedefense
09-14-2010, 10:10 AM
First game jitters, but Bradshaw was making things out of nothing in the first half. Run blocking stunk in the first half. 2nd half Bradshaw had a sick run. Very elusive and shifty. In the end, that combined with vision will allow us to be successful. We don't need perfect blocking for our running game to be successful then. Less stress on the OL and TE position.

You watch the tape yet? Hedgecock is WASHED up. We need a FB bad.

Anyway, I'll let you respond to that in the Giants discussion, I don't want to divert the thread.

LizardState
09-14-2010, 10:31 AM
More holding calls for sure.

Definitely. They're in a better position to call QB roughing too. We saw that in the Dallas @ Skins & Jets games, holding calls right & left.

The NFL won't like this at all, these penalties will slow the games down that they've been trying to accelerate in order to pack game per day into the schedule.

P-L
09-14-2010, 10:48 AM
Passing offenses generally don't take off, league-wide, at the beginning of the season. I wouldn't read too much into any trends after one week. It is something that I thought of, but then again I thought the elimination of the force out call would have had a bigger impact than it did.
I know it's only the first week but for all the talk about this being a passing league, the six teams who threw the ball 44 times or more all lost and all ten teams that rushed the ball 40 times or more won.