View Full Version : Heyward, Clayborn and Bailey....3-4 DEs....?

09-15-2010, 02:48 PM
Is the best fit for Cameron Heyward, Adrian Clayborn and Allan Bailey 3-4 DE?

I think so.


A Perfect Score
09-15-2010, 02:54 PM
Heyward most definitely, but the other 2 have question surrounding that situation. Could they do it? Probably, but Im not convinced that it would be the best position for either of them. Clayborn I really like in a 4-3, and Ive stated a few times on here I think that's Bailey's best fit as well.

09-15-2010, 02:58 PM
I'll go with Heyward as a 4-3 or 3-4 DE and the other two more 4-3 ends or 3-4 olbs. Going to see Jared Crick of Nebraska over the weekend in Seattle, he probably is the best 3-4 DE of them all.

Don Vito
09-15-2010, 03:05 PM
Heyward is a Seymour clone at 3-4 end, I think it is his best fit and he could be dominant there. If he played for a defense where he could get moved around a lot like Seymour did in NE, he could be lethal.

Clayborn is a guy who I think could do it, but I don't know if it is his best fit yet. I could see him being a Darnell Dockett type of player in a 3-4, but I really like him as a Tuck type player in a 4-3. He's another guy who would benefit from moving around a lot, he is talented enough to play either end spot or kick down to DT if need be in a 4-3.

Allen Bailey's size screams 3-4 end, but I still don't know what to make about Bailey. He is talented no doubt, but I still can't decide what I think his best fit is. Could he play 3-4 end? Probably, but he is talented enough to play quite a few positions in a lot of defenses. This year will be big for him.

Jared Crick is another guy who I think could be a great 3-4 end, I think he is the second best 3-4 end prospect behind Heyward. He has the ideal frame for it and is very smooth and strong, he is a guy I would love to see on the Pats.

Marcel Dareus is a big time talent who needs to get on the field and put that talent on display year round. That TD in the NC game showed his rare ability, but I want to see him dominate when he gets back from his suspension. He could be a top 10 pick if he puts it all together.

09-15-2010, 03:07 PM
Heyward and Bailey definitely fit better as 3-4 DE's. Clayborn on the other hand fits in both schemes but I actually like him most in a 4-3.

09-15-2010, 03:16 PM
I see Heyward as a cant miss 3-4 DE prospect, while Clayborn I think can be a great 4-3 DE and Bailey as a guy who can play DE in both 4-3 and 3-4 D's and maybe UT in a 4-3 as well.

09-15-2010, 04:09 PM
I think Marcel Dareus is the best 3-4 end, Heyward is a very very close 2. Both are men amongst boys in the college level. Adrian Clayborn screams left DE in a 4-3. Bailey is just too inconsistent to determine what might be best for him. He is awesome one play disappears the next. You have to be a rock to play 3-4 end, not a liability. He has a lot of talent.

Day One Pick
09-15-2010, 04:43 PM
I believe 3-4 DE is the best fit for all three of them. I think Heyward is the best suited and most natural fit of the three, but Clayborn might have the highest ceiling. I see Bailey and Heyward as more similar to each other and both would be best as DT's in a 4-3, but I think Clayborn would be a left DE in a 4-3. Heyward and Bailey could also play left DE, but would have higher ceilings inside. All depends on who drafts them and that teams particular needs. All three can be considered versatile and could find a home in about any defensive front.

Here's how I rank the 3-4 DE prospects...

1. Jared Crick, 6-6, 290, Nebraska*
2. Adrian Clayborn, 6-3, 282, Iowa
3. Cameron Heyward, 6-6, 287, Ohio State
4. Allen Bailey, 6-4, 288, Miami
5. Cameron Jordan, 6-4, 285, California
6. Da'Quan Bowers, 6-4, 278, Clemson*
7. Marcell Dareus, 6-3, 280, Alabama*
8. Lawrence Guy, 6-5, 300, Arizona State*
9. Lawrence Marsh, 6-5, 305, Florida
10. Christian Ballard, 6-5, 297, Iowa
11. Adrian Taylor, 6-4, 303, Oklahoma
12. Jerel Worthy, 6-3, 298, Michigan State#
13. Muhammad Wilkerson, 6-5, 300, Temple*
14. Brandon Thompson, 6-3, 305, Clemson*
15. Ryan Van Bergen, 6-6, 280, Michigan*
16. Nick Jenkins, 6-3, 290, Virginia*
17. Matt Conrath, 6-7, 280, Virginia*
18. Zach Clayton, 6-3, 290, Auburn
19. Cedric Thornton, 6-4, 295, Southern Arkansas
20. Billy Winn, 6-4, 288, Boise State*

09-15-2010, 04:48 PM
I don't think Clayborn is gonna be over 6'2" and there are some people who would argue that is too short to be an effective 3-4 end.

09-15-2010, 04:52 PM
Clayborn in the 4-3.

Bailey hmmmn he has amazing speed, but is always a step slow to get off the ball. I don't know where he ends up. 3-4 end go be the way to go, since he probably has the strength to hold up against the run. No, he does not belong as a olb in the 30 scheme.

Day One Pick
09-15-2010, 05:01 PM
I don't think Clayborn is gonna be over 6'2" and there are some people who would argue that is too short to be an effective 3-4 end.

6-2 is borderline, but with all the 3-4 teams out there now the guidlines have been stretched for all the front 7 positions in a 3-4. Several years back you wouldn't see a 6-3 player drafted in the first 2 or 3 rounds to play 3-4 DE. That said, length is still more important for a 3-4 DE than it is for a 3-4 OLB.

09-15-2010, 08:50 PM
Clayborne could be a Shaun Ellis/Trevor Pryce type 3-4 DE...Heyward the more prototypical type...Bailey's best position is TBD...it could work.

09-15-2010, 08:52 PM
Heyward is a 3-4 end, who can play 4-3 DE or DT.
Clayborn is a 4-3 end.
Bailey is a 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT.

09-16-2010, 08:19 AM
Cameron Heyward I think is the prototypical 2 gap 5 technique in the NFL. He has the size, length and hand use to be able to stack and shed the OT. His problem is he needs to be more consistent.

Adrian Clayborn I like as a Justin Tuck-type player. His best fit may come at LE while sliding inside on passing downs. He isn't the purest pass rusher in the draft but more than makes up for it with his motor. He could be serviceable as a 5 technique.

Allen Bailey is the X factor of the 3. He has enough size to stand up OTs but also has the athleticism to turn the corner. I don't think he has the discipline to play in a gap control defense though and may be better suited in an attacking style odd front. Dallas and San Diego would be good fits for Bailey.

09-16-2010, 09:21 AM
I wonder how effective Clayborn would be if he lost 15 or so pounds to gain a bit more explosion.

He doesn't have the athleticism of Bailey or the versatility of Heyward.
Unreal strength and hands like seal clubs, he stays balanced and finds the football on almost every play. His effort and instincts alone make him a 1st rounder.

09-16-2010, 10:55 AM
Good little debate, however, even though I do it as well I think too much is put into saying these are 3/4 defensive ends and these are 4/3 defensive ends. Sure put players where they can be successful but a good defensive lineman is a good defensive lineman. Just look at these prospects, all listed and projected as one thing but just as successful in another. Same can be said for 3/4 OLB prospects however I feel that is a little more legitimate than tagging 3/4 defensive ends.

Tyson Alualu- Projected as a star potential 3/4 defensive end, drafted high as a 4/3 defensive tackle.

Chris Canty- Classic supposed 3/4 defensive end size, did not to much on the Cowboys, now is playing defensive tackle for the Giants.

Cliff Avril- A possible 3/4 OLB, now is a down defensive end in a 4/3.

Glenn Dorsey- A 3/4 DE, who would have thought after he was such a fine college DT.

Kevin Williams- People would think, oh he can play 3/4 DE, now has been one of the best DTs in the league.

Tyson Jackson- Everyone pegged him as a 3/4 DE in college and now is one in the NFL, rarely does that happen but he did play DE in college which helped the transition.

Everson Griffen- Tagged him as a 3/4 OLB possibly, now is a project down 4/3 DE.

Jerry Hughes- Tagged him as a possible 3/4 OLB, now is a down DE on the Colts who look for speedy undersized pass rushers.

Richard Seymour- Was a 3/4 DE, now is a DT on the Raiders and does just fine there.

Lamarr Houston- The star potential 3/4 DE, now is a 4/3 DE on the Raiders

Mitch King- A real potential 3/4 DE but is now a 4/3 DT

Chris Long- The supposed hallmark 3/4 DE, but is a fine 4/3 DE instead and should be for awhile.

Jay Ratliff- And who in the world would have thought he could be a 3/4 NT? But he is and is one of the best.

Gerard Warren- Played 4/3 DT for awhile, now they switched him to a 3/4 DT

So it is all on the system in place, players move around and make changes. I must say being a 3/4 DE is not as productive potentially as being a 4/3 DT. Take Albert Haynesworth, I can see why he would be upset because he is a 4/3 DT and is at his best playing that, not NT in a 3/4, but things change. But rarely will a prospects ability change, they can either play or they cannot and if they can play they will adapt and do what they are told to do.

So all of these players could easily play in a 3/4 or 4/3, personally I think Heyward should stick to a 4/3 DT but he does not have much choice in the matter. And Bailey should be in a 3/4 DE because he is not quick enough as a pass rusher and does not have enough pass rush moves to play a 4/3 DE. And Clayborn could easily do both. But yes just because a prospect is 6-6 280 does not make him automatically a 3/4 DE.

09-16-2010, 11:08 AM
Good little debate, however, even though I do it as well I think too much is put into saying these are 3/4 defensive ends and these are 4/3 defensive ends.

Entirely too much is made into locking these guys into one position...They're athletes and there is nothing a football coach loves more than a guy they can move around....for instance I've believed for years that Kevin Williams on the Vikings could play any position on any DL in any defensive front...that's why he's awesome....same for guys like Seymour...Haynesworth...Canty is like that...It starts with being large and stout and then builds from there.

09-16-2010, 11:21 AM
I don't remember Chris Long being the 'hallmark' 3-4 end, in fact, many projected he'd play OLB in that scheme. Glenn Dorsey was drafted to be a 4-3 tackle and that still is probably his best fit. It's not really a surprise what happened to Hughes/Griffen last year, many projected them to be 4-3 ends & Hughes went to just the right system (in Indianapolis) to fulfill his potential there. Kevin Williams has never had the opportunity in the NFL to play 5-Tech, he was drafted by a 4-3 team. I don't recall much being made of Mitch King at 5-Tech, he was undersized & he's an undersized DT; his best fit is as a Tampa 2 DT.