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DMWSackMachine
09-19-2010, 11:51 PM
I know people hate the Cowboys in general. For the purposes of this post, please put all the brainless hate aside and answer as truthfully and objectively as you possibly can.

Should Wade be fired? More specifically, is he to blame for the Cowboys inability to perform at a consistently high level despite the presence on the roster of the talent necessary to do so?

Please vote and comment as necessary. I've been trying to tell my brethren on the Cowboys board this for 3 years and they all seem to disagree for one stupid reason or another. Thanks in advance.

JETS5128
09-19-2010, 11:51 PM
I think he will pretty soon

Werowance
09-20-2010, 12:06 AM
If he doesn't have a winning record this season he should be out. Although if I were the Cowboys fans I would place most of the blame on Jerry Jones (for being an awful GM, avoiding OL, K and S in the draft) and on Jason Garett who is becoming the worst OC in the NFL.

DMWSackMachine
09-20-2010, 12:13 AM
Not that Jerry doesn't get his share, but people say BPA!BPA!BPA! all the time come draft day, and then when the board doesn't fall the right way and you fail to address a position, they run you out of town for not drafting for need. The Cowboys have selectively targeted several OL over the last 4 years but have had them stolen time and time again. And its not like they weren't getting good players with their picks. Sure, its easy to sit back and say Dallas should have gone OL, but *WHO* and *WHEN* is the question. Felix Jones, Mike Jenkins, Anthony Spencer, and now Dez Bryant are all looking pretty damn good themselves. They had Max Unger taken out from under them in the 2nd round in 09, and Darren Colledge two years prior. They were targeting Iupati this year before the Niners tabbed him....and on and on.

Also, we've spent two fifth rounders on kickers in the last 4 years. That is probably the most any single team has invested in the position over that time. So fail on that one.

Werowance
09-20-2010, 12:26 AM
Okay so does that excuse the fact that Jerry Jones doesn't get offensive linemen? If you have a need, you address it no matter what. If you really want someone you move up and get them. Obviously Jerry placed a premium on RB, WR, CB and LB instead of OL and DL and that is why the Cowboys are as weak in the trenches as they are now. I mean had you not traded for Roy Williams the Cowboys could have had Alex Mack, Michael Oher, Eric Wood or Eben Britton in the 2009 draft. In 2010 Dallas moved up for Dez Bryant, instead of going for flash yet again why didn't Jerry move up the 1 extra spot to get Bryan Bulaga, I mean clearly Jerry wasn't against moving up.

And you've spent 2 5th round picks on kickers? Whoop de doo. How is that working out for you? Jerry probably should've realized that the one thing Buehler can't do is make field goals. Ignoring drafting an actual kicker in favor of a kick off specialist who runs fast and can lift a bunch of weight is a fail on your part.

So back to my point, Jerry is a terrible GM.

GB12
09-20-2010, 12:41 AM
Fire Wade and promote Garrett already

yourfavestoner
09-20-2010, 12:49 AM
Fire Wade and promote Garrett already

He already had two great prospective head coaches on Parcells' staff and let them both walk in Sparano and Payton.

The problem is that Wade Phillips should have never been hired as the head coach in the first place. He's just a Jerry "yes man."

Breaker
09-20-2010, 01:18 AM
He will after this happens next week

http://www.kramercustomdesigns.com/schaubbloodsport.jpg

DMWSackMachine
09-20-2010, 01:39 AM
Okay so does that excuse the fact that Jerry Jones doesn't get offensive linemen? If you have a need, you address it no matter what. If you really want someone you move up and get them. Obviously Jerry placed a premium on RB, WR, CB and LB instead of OL and DL and that is why the Cowboys are as weak in the trenches as they are now. I mean had you not traded for Roy Williams the Cowboys could have had Alex Mack, Michael Oher, Eric Wood or Eben Britton in the 2009 draft. In 2010 Dallas moved up for Dez Bryant, instead of going for flash yet again why didn't Jerry move up the 1 extra spot to get Bryan Bulaga, I mean clearly Jerry wasn't against moving up.

And you've spent 2 5th round picks on kickers? Whoop de doo. How is that working out for you? Jerry probably should've realized that the one thing Buehler can't do is make field goals. Ignoring drafting an actual kicker in favor of a kick off specialist who runs fast and can lift a bunch of weight is a fail on your part.

So back to my point, Jerry is a terrible GM.

I have no desire to defender Jerry and I am not an apologist for him and his shortcomings. That said, this post is uninformed, short-sighted and narrow minded in the extreme.

Every team has deficiencies. The same thing could be said for the Colts. They have no interior beef to stop the run(unlike the Cowboys, who are annually among the top run defending teams, despite you throwing that little barb in while you were at it), their OL is aging and sieve-like (much worse than a healthy Cowboys' line) and they have spent their last 5 1st round picks on, in order, RB, WR, RB and DE.

The point? Jerry's personnel decisions have been just fine. You don't look at one area of strength OR weakness when you evaluate a team FO on the basis of player acquisition. You look at the whole team and the whole group of players that that staff has assembled. While Jerry may have failed to acquire a top tier safety or young OLmen to replace the aging guys along the line (lets not ignore the fact that the Cowboys current starting LT is a 25 year old who was drafted in the 4th round 3 years ago and looks to be a very solid player moving forward, btw), every single other team in the league has a similar issue.

The Colts have similar shortcomings, with no DTs, a very weak OL and no difference maker at RB despite using TWO #1s on the position. Oh, and their LBs are mediocre at best.

The Pats have been unable to develop a single good RB, despite using a #1 pick there not long ago, and also have no CBs who are even average. Oh, and they lack any single player who can present a threat rushing the passer. Aside from that, they're awesome, though.

The Saints have been terrible in the secondary for years and have never been able to consistently stop anyone's passing game.

The Vikings couldn't get any decent WRs for years and years until Favre came in and made Sidney Rice into a star and they drafted Percy Harvin. Aside from that, their CBs and S have been a joke for ever and their LBs leave a lot to be desired as well.

I could go on all day. Jerry has done a great job acquiring talent. He has stocked RB, WR, TE, QB, CB, PR (pass rusher), NT with Pro Bowl talent from the draft. That part of his job he's done PLENTY well enough to not only compete, but to win it all.

You're missing the point. Its not about talent acquisition. Wade Phillips is a Jerry mistake. So I'm not arguing that Jerry isn't culpable. But it isn't personnel guy Jerry that is to blame. Its organizational Jerry that is.

Saints-Tigers
09-20-2010, 01:58 AM
The Saints have the best, or at least, one of the best secondaries in the league right now. They aren't the best EVER like Dallas is to you, but they are pretty good.

PackerLegend
09-20-2010, 02:04 AM
I think he deserves a promotion just so he can keep torturing all you cowgirls.

yourfavestoner
09-20-2010, 02:10 AM
I have no desire to defender Jerry and I am not an apologist for him and his shortcomings. That said, this post is uninformed, short-sighted and narrow minded in the extreme.

Every team has deficiencies. The same thing could be said for the Colts. They have no interior beef to stop the run(unlike the Cowboys, who are annually among the top run defending teams, despite you throwing that little barb in while you were at it), their OL is aging and sieve-like (much worse than a healthy Cowboys' line) and they have spent their last 5 1st round picks on, in order, RB, WR, RB and DE.

The point? Jerry's personnel decisions have been just fine. You don't look at one area of strength OR weakness when you evaluate a team FO on the basis of player acquisition. You look at the whole team and the whole group of players that that staff has assembled. While Jerry may have failed to acquire a top tier safety or young OLmen to replace the aging guys along the line (lets not ignore the fact that the Cowboys current starting LT is a 25 year old who was drafted in the 4th round 3 years ago and looks to be a very solid player moving forward, btw), every single other team in the league has a similar issue.

The Colts have similar shortcomings, with no DTs, a very weak OL and no difference maker at RB despite using TWO #1s on the position. Oh, and their LBs are mediocre at best.

The Pats have been unable to develop a single good RB, despite using a #1 pick there not long ago, and also have no CBs who are even average. Oh, and they lack any single player who can present a threat rushing the passer. Aside from that, they're awesome, though.

The Saints have been terrible in the secondary for years and have never been able to consistently stop anyone's passing game.

The Vikings couldn't get any decent WRs for years and years until Favre came in and made Sidney Rice into a star and they drafted Percy Harvin. Aside from that, their CBs and S have been a joke for ever and their LBs leave a lot to be desired as well.

I could go on all day. Jerry has done a great job acquiring talent. He has stocked RB, WR, TE, QB, CB, PR (pass rusher), NT with Pro Bowl talent from the draft. That part of his job he's done PLENTY well enough to not only compete, but to win it all.

You're missing the point. Its not about talent acquisition. Wade Phillips is a Jerry mistake. So I'm not arguing that Jerry isn't culpable. But it isn't personnel guy Jerry that is to blame. Its organizational Jerry that is.

I agree with this. The Cowboys are an extremely talented team. The problem is that it's not a very mentally strong or resilient team. They have no killer instinct, and they have no identity.

It's always a problem when players know that they answer to the owner and not the coach.

thule
09-20-2010, 02:36 AM
/repost from cowboys thread.

I love how differently someone can see certain situations.

DMW I'm on the other side. I think Wade is competent enough to win a championship. Think about this for a 2nd. Wade has been the full time DC for the past 20 games. Only 4 games have our opponents scored more than 20 points in a game.

Wades a bad coach. To put those numbers into perspective when Brian Stewart was calling the defense in 2008...weeks 1-9 before Wade took over we allowed over 20 points in 6 games....this team is better because of wade phillips on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm sure the argument is going to be...Wade Phillips is a better coach than Brian Stewart...blah blah idc we are the Dallas Cowboys we deserve better. So let me go a bit deeper.

Try to place yourself in Wade's shoes for just one second. You want to be a head coach and you have a great opportunity to do so with a ton of talent in dallas. The catch is you get no say over the defense...you weigh you options but in the end you think Jason Garrett is extremely intelligent and has a bright future you take the gig.

Fast forward losing most of the staff that was in place before you...this isn't a big deal...but look at who was brought in on the offensive side of the ball that had ties to Wade....Wes Phillips offensive quality control...anyone else?

My point is no matter how good of a coach Wade Phillips is or isn't he is underminded by the pre-hiring of Jason Garrett. I hate to sound cliche...but the term "you're only as strong as your weakest link" really seems to fit here. Phillips defense is proven effective. It generates pressure and is a bit of a bend but don't break defense...don't give up big plays. This is a great defense and it's proven and backed up by stats.

Now here is my problem with what you are saying.
This team has taken on the personality of its coach. They have the speed, strength, power and skill to win the Lombardi. But they have neither the head nor the heart. We make the dumbest mistakes at the worst times, and we don't come out with the intensity that you have to have to maintain a consistently high level of play.
Wade is known around the league as being extremely smart and knowing what he knows. I don't get how a dumbfounded play can be because of Wade Phillips. Obviously I understand mistakes come from not being coached up...but for example...Igors late hit on the QB...is that Wades fault...that is a heat of the moment play...cornerbacks not making plays on the ball is about the biggest thing you could knock Wade for and unfortunetly this team has proven over the past 5 years that we can't play zone. We get picked apart and for whatever reason we lack the awareness when we go that route. Wade brought in Jenkins and Scandrick both guys who've always excelled in man...so people want to make a big deal out of no turnovers that fine. But remember punts and missed field goals are also turnovers. Stops on 4th downs are turnovers.

Finally let me get to my point.

When anything on this team goes wrong it's Wades fault...but in reality is it? If Wade went to Jerry tomorrow and said I want jason off of play calling duties does anyone actually think that would fly. Maybe moreso now..but how about in the offseason...Jerry would laugh in his face and probably start rambling off numbers about how prolific Jasons offense is.

However this isn't new to anyone here especially you. You win championships in the NFL by playing as a team. This means the players and the strategy. Who in their right mind thinks that Wade Phillips wants a high flying offense? Tony Romo has threw the ******* ball 100 times in 2 games. Think about that...wtf is going on here. Dallas OL can't run block...fix it...draft someone...we have the talent to run it's a breakdown of coaching and play calling. While Wade has the ability to go there...he wasn't exactly put in the position to do that from the start. When we saw the clip in the war room 2 years ago and Garrett wanted to go Felix over Mendenhall I know we didn't see everything..but anyone else think that perhaps not only does Jerry Jones like shinny things..but also that Garrett gets excited over having new toys and sells jerry on it even more?

Bottomline is this team won't win a championship until the whole team strategy meshes. This means that you have to play a wade phillips offense to go along with his defense. I'm not talking about bringing bum phillips out of retirement to run the offense and run sweeps all day. But what I mean is you can't judge Wade and blame everything on him when it's clear as night and day that this team wasn't built as one. Some pieces were here before he got here and he doesn't get to make big changes. You trying to tell me that Wade Phillips had any say over Roy Williams coming here. But think bout it on the other side of the arguement...can you see Jason Garrett objecting? Remember we are talking about a ivy league grad that has been taught his whole life that he can do anything he sets his mind too. With a little of MY help he thinks...Roy can get back to his 1000 yard season.

Now don't get me wrong I loved the Roy move when we made it. Hindsight 20/20 knowing we'd get dez the following year...Michael Oher would be super sexy...but obviously thats not the case.

While I don't think Wade is perfect I don't think he's gotten a fair shake from the start...and what he is directly responsible for I'm proud of. I love when we shut teams out...I love when we play ball control offense. I wish I could post the stats on average ppg for the opponent when we win the time of possession.

Do you know what our opponents average ppg is when we win the TOP? 12 points. 12...think about that for a min....all we have to do is score 2 td's and TOP and we win.

Hell score 3td's and we don't even need TOP anymore. My point is the problem on this team is not wade phillips. This defense has done nothing be improve since he was appointed DC...the offense has done nothing but get worse since Garrett took the reigns. I'm sorry but I just don't think Wade is the problem here.

Rosebud
09-20-2010, 03:27 AM
You make a good point thule, Wade Phillips hasn't gotten a fair shake in Dallas and he is a good DC, but that doesn't excuse his almost Lovie-esque inability to get his team to concentrate and stay focused through the toughest of times. I just don't think Wade's cut out to be a head coach, Greg Williams is a great DC and the architect of a defense in New Orleans finally let that high powered offense convert points into wins, but he's a terrible head coach, you can be really smart and really good with the X's and O's and still fail miserably as a head coach and IMO Wade Phillips has done a mediocre job as a HC throughout his career, again still a great DC and defensive play caller, but as a HC I don't think he does a good enough job of winning his locker-room and while yes, Jerry has undermined him there, a good coach would be able to beat out Jason ******* Garrett for the loyalty of his players, that is assuming his players aren't ********.

Gay Ork Wang
09-20-2010, 04:49 AM
id say fire Jason Garrett, if that doesnt work, phillips gotta go

Brent
09-20-2010, 06:11 AM
if Jerry could handle letting a coach take the spotlight, he might be able to get a decent coach who would bring a good OC with him.

Wade sure isnt the one who hired Garrett, and sure as ******* cant fire him.

J-Mike88
09-20-2010, 06:28 AM
I live in Dallas and I don't know what the answer & solutions are.
I know that today will be a fun day to listen to the Ticket, and the Fan, and ESPN Dallas all day long, as last Monday was.

I personally think a few things here:

#1- Aw shucks. Ya know.
That's the laid back, lazyish persona of Phillips. Every press conference, every interview, listen to how he sounds. You know....

#2- Jason Garrett
I think he's terrible. I hear fans complain all the time down here that they don't come close to utilizing their running backs. The thing is, even on here it seems everyone has different opinions/rankings of the 3 Dallas RBs.

#3- Talent
Maybe they're not as talented as everyone makes them out to be. They drafted Marty B before Jermichael Finley.
Does that OL do a good job run blocking? Pass protecting?

What happened at kicker? In the 2007 almost-magical year, rookie Nick Folk edged rookie Mason Crosby for the Pro Bowl, and made some huge clutch kicks. Crosby struggled last year. But he's got his confidence back and hit a 56-yarder last week in Philly.
Who the hell is this kicker this year for Dallas?

They have a lethal combo of Romo to Austin on offense, and they have the lethal bookend pass-rushing OLBers in Demarcus and Spencer, with NT Ratliff up the middle. Other than that, there are no playmakers on defense. Mike Jenkins is pretty good, but it's amazing how few turnovers this defense gets with those pass rushing beasts.

Brent
09-20-2010, 06:31 AM
I know that today will be a fun day to listen to the ESPN Dallas
I love Randy Galloway's show

Smooth Criminal
09-20-2010, 08:00 AM
If hey don't make the playoffs I would expect him to be fired. Way to much preseason expectation for them to not make the playoffs.

Saints-Tigers
09-20-2010, 08:25 AM
They aren't as talented as they are made out to be, because they are weak in the trenches on both sides.

Canadian_draft_fan
09-20-2010, 08:30 AM
Phillips will be fired by season's end. Phillips has underachieved everywhere he's been a HC. His teams are undisciplined and play dumb (like him). I was pleased when the Cowboys hired him because I knew they would never win a SB under his guidance.

Mr.Regular
09-20-2010, 08:37 AM
If they lose to their undefeated in state rivals and fall to 0-3 in the season that was supposed to be theirs, I think he's fired.
Only issue is who replaces him....I can't see Garrett being considered anymore and Im not sure if anyone from outside of the organization will be talked about.

Either way, point is moot if Dallas wins next week. Big time game.

LonghornsLegend
09-20-2010, 08:45 AM
#3- Talent
Maybe they're not as talented as everyone makes them out to be. They drafted Marty B before Jermichael Finley.

Lol really? What does this have to do with anything? We've rehashed this in the Cowboys forum already, and I was the biggest Finley fan on this forum when he was coming out but EVERY team passed on Jermichael Finley, hell if GB knew he would end up this good they wouldn't have waited that long, and if anyone else knew he would have been drafted where Jermaine Gresham was.


Besides that he was a pure receiving TE, he didn't even start to become a solid blocker until this season, and frankly with Witten that didn't make much sense to look at a prospect that way. Marty B is an excellent blocker and has been able to step in from day 1 in dual TE sets as a blocker while still being a great receiver.


Talent is on the roster, that's not a problem, and even if you argued that it was bringing up Marty B over Finley is pretty stupid, it's just a way to try and bring up the Packers and how good Finley is. There were alot of stupid TE picks before him.


As far as Dallas, Wade is an excellent Defensive Coordinator, he's just not a Head Coach. While he may not get a fair shake, things like penalties every single week are a result of him. The whole coaching tree needs stripped down, new OC, DC, and HC. Doubt it'll happen, but everyone is to blame to an extent.


I'm not gonna blame Jerry like most everyone else. It's not like he wasn't the same old Jerry back in the mid 90's. He has enough talent on the roster, that's his primary job. He makes tough decisions that goes against what everyone thinks of him like cutting TO and it works out. Now he does stupid **** like trade for Roy, and makes a ton of mistakes with hiring coaches, but I remember when everyone called him an idiot for not hiring Mike Singletary and now they want him fired already.


Point being, Wade should go. Love what he does with the D, but if he's just gonna continue to let the team come out unprepared, and countless penalties, it's time.

yourfavestoner
09-20-2010, 10:51 AM
"Like I said, I don't know if you heard me, but I think that things [in practice] kind of got let go [by the players] in practice," Newman said. "It's things that ... it's not our coaches. They don't really know some of the things that were going on. But as players, we have to crack down and make sure that some of the stuff that has been going on doesn't go on.
"We have to make it a game situation in practice. That's just what it is. We go hard in practice, but maybe our intensity needs to go up a little bit. We've got to do that as players and not worry about the coaches."


There were two incidents last week that raised eyebrows in the Cowboys' locker room. At midweek, linebackers coach Reggie Herring yelled at some of the younger players to attend a meeting on time. Several other players howled as if to mock Herring.
On Friday, after some fun between Marcus Spears (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=8435) and Jon Kitna (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=1383) about a game of spades drew reporters to listen in on the banter, tight end Martellus Bennett (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11295) started shouting as if he wanted attention.
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/columns/story?columnist=watkins_calvin&id=5593266


Take it for what it's worth.

umphrey
09-20-2010, 11:19 AM
Bottom 5 coach in the NFL. Playoff blunder. Doesn't get his team ready for big games. Doesn't get his team ready to be winners. They don't know how to handle it - they get big heads and overrate themselves. From quotes, he cares more about himself than the team or the organization. He wants to win for Wade and he wants people to recognize him as a good coach and talk about what a good job he's doing. That wouldn't be a bad thing really if he was a tenacious winner, kind of like Bellicheck (except Bellicheck doesn't care what people say about him at all), but he's more of an apologist for losing.

Joecool
09-20-2010, 11:24 AM
Keep wade for defensive coordinator and hire jon gruden for head-coach/oc

princefielder28
09-20-2010, 11:30 AM
I would get rid of Jason Garrett...Wade may not be the solution in Dallas but he's certainly not a problem, or their biggest problem, Garrett is.

umphrey
09-20-2010, 11:45 AM
I would get rid of Jason Garrett...Wade may not be the solution in Dallas but he's certainly not a problem, or their biggest problem, Garrett is.

They need an entire regime change. Jerry knows it and the only thing keeping his finger off the trigger is the roster they have right now. They have superbowl talent and it was the right decision to keep the system intact to try to get there this year, but they are getting close to the point where they have to start making changes at the coaching level. If Wade doesn't rally his troops and win some games, he'll get fired at the end of the year.

princefielder28
09-20-2010, 11:52 AM
Oh, I agree that he will probably be fired but I don't think he should be fired...

steelernation77
09-20-2010, 11:53 AM
The Cowboys as a franchise are molded in the image of Jerry Jones and it is a model that has proven ineffective in the age of the salary cap.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-20-2010, 11:55 AM
NO! I like tubby there as their HC. Keep him! In fact, contract extension time! DO it! Do it!

LizardState
09-20-2010, 12:16 PM
Call me crazy but I think Wade deserves big kudos for building one of the better 3-4 defenses in the league now. Player for player the Dallas D can stand with anybody, & Ware & Spencer turn in Pro Bowl performances in the pass rush consistently. More attn. in the near future needs to be paid to S & a replacement for Spears at DE though.

Also, we've spent two fifth rounders on kickers in the last 4 years.

Playcalling & the kicking game are the 2 sore points now, Garrett's gameplan & their epic failures have been discussed to death already so I'll address kicker.

They struck gold with Nick Folk but even he slumped badly after his Pro Bowl rookie yr, the injury sent him packing & now he's trying a comeback in NY, good luck. Someone asked who the kicker now is & that's Buehler, who was apparently a Combine phenom but can't hit anything past 30-35 yds now to save his job, & he has to. He is the obvious turd in the punchbowl now & the main reason Dallas has the worst red zone offense, they fall behind early & can't catch up. 3rd time I've said this here: draft Kai Forbath from UCLA next April, go higher than the 5th rd. if necessary.

Kicker & punter are IMO the most underrated offensive positions in the NFL & you see in Buehler what a disaster can happen if you draft one only b/c he can consistently boom KOs into the EZ & disallow returns. It's not an exact science, finding a kicker who can consistently kick 50+ yarders in game conditions & that includes during late season winters in outdoor stadiums, but you have to cut your losses sometime & ifthey stink up Reliant Stadium in Houston next weekend, 0-3 is time to push the panic button & find another kicker 1st.

tjsunstein
09-20-2010, 12:29 PM
Wade will make some team very happy as a DC but there are too many factors preventing Wade from being a good head coach in Dallas. Mainly Jerry and Garrett. Hell, Wade could be a hell of a coach in Carolina if John Fox is out after the season.

FlyingElvis
09-20-2010, 02:17 PM
I think the description of the Cowboys as having an identity crisis fits pretty well. It certainly doesn't seem like Wade should take all the blame but, ultimately, the HC is responsible for the motivation and attitude of his team. As such, the Cowboys mental lapses fall on him and he should be held accountable.

zachsaints52
09-20-2010, 02:21 PM
What was Jason Witten yelling about on the sidelines? Ive seen vid of him doing it, but not what was beign said.

FlyingElvis
09-20-2010, 02:22 PM
I believe he was yelling at the medical staff b/c they wouldn't let him back in the game after a headshot.

zachsaints52
09-20-2010, 02:24 PM
I believe he was yelling at the medical staff b/c they wouldn't let him back in the game after a headshot.

He is a SWVA/NETN boy, we don't need helmets.

But thanks for the answer.

San Diego Chicken
09-20-2010, 02:36 PM
I don't think it's time to panic yet. It's been two weeks, they just need to tweak things on offense, get the right personnel groupings out there, and they'll be fine.

NotRickJames
09-20-2010, 04:19 PM
Yes, he should. The Cowboys underachieve every year and that's on him. The first guy to get the axe needs to be Jason Garrett, though.

The Cowboys have lost their identity, that RB corps needs to get more carries.

LonghornsLegend
09-20-2010, 04:37 PM
They need an entire regime change. Jerry knows it and the only thing keeping his finger off the trigger is the roster they have right now. They have superbowl talent and it was the right decision to keep the system intact to try to get there this year, but they are getting close to the point where they have to start making changes at the coaching level. If Wade doesn't rally his troops and win some games, he'll get fired at the end of the year.



Yep, top to bottom, Wade would be great as a DC and to just let that be his only concern week to week but when was the last time a HC was demoted to coordinator? Be nice but don't see it happening. Until there is a change with the coaching staff things will always be the same. I still think with the coaches in tact we can win a playoff game at the least if we sneak in, but nothing more.


At this point a top 12 pick would make me more happy then anything, maybe we can get a Safety that actually knows how to create turnovers.

BeerBaron
09-20-2010, 05:13 PM
At this point a top 12 pick would make me more happy then anything, maybe we can get a Safety that actually knows how to create turnovers.

Or maybe cover that wide open TE streaking down the middle of the field? ;)

Honestly, I think this team absolutely has the talent to be a Superbowl contender, but are being held back by coaching on offense and overall poor game management.

What I'd do if I were them is try to pick up Mankins this offseason if he is still available, even if it costs a first rounder. He'd help sure up the left side of the line and hopefully make Doug Free better. Then find a RT and a S by other means.

That, in addition to a change in coaching would really bring them back as a contender.

But, that probably makes too much sense to ever happen.

J-Mike88
09-20-2010, 06:32 PM
They need an entire regime change. Jerry knows it and the only thing keeping his finger off the trigger is the roster they have right now. They have superbowl talent and it was the right decision to keep the system intact to try to get there this year, but they are getting close to the point where they have to start making changes at the coaching level. If Wade doesn't rally his troops and win some games, he'll get fired at the end of the year.
I'm starting to wonder about that.
Do they really?
Forget the BS Pro-Bowl votes. Do they really have Super Bowl talent or are we overrating their talent based on the superhype that team gets?

I think the Packers are better than Dallas at:
QB
WR
TE
OL
K

DL
DB

And LB is pretty close with Matthews blowing up into a superstar, and the Packers depth at ILB.

PoopSandwich
09-20-2010, 06:43 PM
not right now but if they dont make it into the nfc championship game at least (i really dont think they will, and i didnt before the year.) then he is gone.

M.O.T.H.
09-20-2010, 09:54 PM
I would fire Garrett 10 times over, before firing Wade. Wade has at least pulled his weight calling the defense. The offense is a dysfunctional mess, with no balance because of Garrett's horrible playcalling. Wade wanted to bring in Dan Reeves, to essentially, mentor Garrett. Wade puts on a happy face, but he was attempting to help this offense out, with an experienced offensive coach. Sadly for us, contract talks fell through with Reeves and Jones, and Garrett has been giving complete control over that unit. Wade isnt fully confident in Garrett, and he should have been given control to bring in his own offensive coordinator from the very beginning. Jerry just wrongfully handed the offense over to Garrett and Jason calls all the shots and oversees that offensive unit. I will never blame Wade for the offenses shortcomings, because Jerry doesnt even allow him to be involved in the offense. Jerry's blind faith in Garrett is hurting the team more than anything else.

It's become apparent to all, professionals and fans alike...that Garrett is a horrible playcaller. I just hope Jerry actually takes notice. He in no way deserves to become the next head coach for the Cowboys. And if he does, I sure as hell hope he relinquishes his playcalling duties. The guy can draw them up, but he is a god awful playcaller.

Rosebud
09-20-2010, 10:05 PM
I'm starting to wonder about that.
Do they really?
Forget the BS Pro-Bowl votes. Do they really have Super Bowl talent or are we overrating their talent based on the superhype that team gets?

I think the Packers are better than Dallas at:
QB
WR
TE
OL
K

DL
DB

And LB is pretty close with Matthews blowing up into a superstar, and the Packers depth at ILB.

Dallas has SB talent because of the versatility of their offensive weapons. In the passing game Austen is a monster and I'd probably pick him over Jennings, and Dez has boatloads of talent as he develops, then you factor in Witten who's still the best TE in the league even though he hasn't gotten going yet this year and a flurry of running backs that could still beast on teams if they were to abandon the pass. The Packers are a better passing offense, but the Cowboys can run the ball so much better than the cowboys that their offensive talent can only be called elite.

Their secondary has issue but they have two good young DBs and some monsters in the front seven as Ware's the best rush backer in the league and Jay Ratliff is a monster. The defense is probably only a little better than the Packers', but with the greater offensive versatility I'd have to say that I do think they're a more purely talented team than the Packers. That said they're run far far worse with a moronic OC who's somehow prevented they're soft HC from completely taking over the locker-room with the owner's help.

steelersfan43
09-20-2010, 10:07 PM
mmmmhhhmmm

M.O.T.H.
09-20-2010, 10:08 PM
I'm starting to wonder about that.
Do they really?
Forget the BS Pro-Bowl votes. Do they really have Super Bowl talent or are we overrating their talent based on the superhype that team gets?

I think the Packers are better than Dallas at:
QB
WR
TE
OL
K

DL
DB

And LB is pretty close with Matthews blowing up into a superstar, and the Packers depth at ILB.

QB can go either way.

WR can go either way. I'd actually go with Dallas.

TE? BS. Finley is good, but jesus...we have Witten.

Rosebud
09-20-2010, 10:12 PM
QB can go either way.

WR can go either way.

TE? BS. Finley is good, but jesus...we have Witten.

I don't think that matters too much, even if you do take Rodgers and his WRs over Dallas' the insane difference in the running game gives you guys a blatant advantage in pure talent. That said Finley > Witten and Bennett is ridiculous and Rodgers is a notch above Romo right meow, although it is a lot closer than many on this forum seem to believe as Garrett's pure incompetence and predictability is often under-rated, sometimes drastically so, by non-NFC East fans.

M.O.T.H.
09-20-2010, 10:13 PM
Wish we'd use those running backs. :/

Rosebud
09-20-2010, 10:14 PM
Wish we'd use those running backs. :/

Nah, it's cool.

LonghornsLegend
09-20-2010, 10:19 PM
I'm starting to wonder about that.
Do they really?
Forget the BS Pro-Bowl votes. Do they really have Super Bowl talent or are we overrating their talent based on the superhype that team gets?

I think the Packers are better than Dallas at:
QB
WR
TE
OL
K

DL
DB

And LB is pretty close with Matthews blowing up into a superstar, and the Packers depth at ILB.



Why does everything have to relate back to Packers>Dallas with you? You've been doing this for months on this board now. I get it. Even if GB was better then Dallas at every position that wouldn't mean Dallas didn't have alot of talent, it would just mean 1 team had better talent then the other.


That being said, even though Rodgers is better Romo is still a top 10 QB in the league, so as you can see my point, just because Rodgers>Romo doesn't mean we don't have talent at that position.


WR and TE your just being a homer which isn't surprising. At best for WR Austin & Jennings is a wash but you could make a better argument for Austin. You could also say Dez and Driver are a wash also, age aside at this point I don't think 1 or the other is much more dominant then the other. I like the depth of James Jones and Jordy Nelson but it's pretty much all potential but yea I'd put James Jones ahead of Ogletree but that's not enough to tip the whole balance to GB.


TE? Lol. And people call me a Jermichael Finley homer.


Is there any post you make that can be about Dallas without bringing up GB and trying to say how GB is so much better, or no?

Rosebud
09-20-2010, 10:26 PM
I think he's just taking "Superbowl talent" to mean that if you decided on who played in the Superbowl exclusively on talent, Dallas would have to surpass every other team in the NFC, like his beloved Packers, and not the way most people assume that phrase to mean that they have enough talent to make it to the Superbowl.

PS just saw Reggie Bush getting helped off of the field. WTF, he has looked so scary in this game for the Saints, sucks seeing him limp off of the field.

Crickett
09-20-2010, 10:28 PM
I think the Packers are better than Dallas at:
TE


That said Finley > Witten

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/zerosignal/implied-facepalm.jpg

Rosebud
09-20-2010, 10:31 PM
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/zerosignal/implied-facepalm.jpg

Did you just Fox News me?

Modano
09-21-2010, 03:23 AM
I don't think that matters too much, even if you do take Rodgers and his WRs over Dallas' the insane difference in the running game gives you guys a blatant advantage in pure talent. That said Finley > Witten and Bennett is ridiculous and Rodgers is a notch above Romo right meow, although it is a lot closer than many on this forum seem to believe as Garrett's pure incompetence and predictability is often under-rated, sometimes drastically so, by non-NFC East fans.

Finley has still a lot to prove before being put in front of Jason Witten. C'mon, we're talking about Jason Witten. Call me when Finley has a 1000 yards receiving yards, something that Witten has done twice (almost three times since he went short of 1000 by 48 yards two years ago) in his career while doing an incredible job blocking.

FlyingElvis
09-21-2010, 09:05 AM
I think he's just taking "Superbowl talent" to mean that if you decided on who played in the Superbowl exclusively on talent, Dallas would have to surpass every other team in the NFC, like his beloved Packers, and not the way most people assume that phrase to mean that they have enough talent to make it to the Superbowl.

This. I don't see how comparing the Cowboys roster to the Packers roster has any bearing on their respective "super bowl level talent." It seems to me that both teams are very talented and compare pretty favorably to the rest of the league. What sense does it make to use another team with top notch talent when comparing?

CC.SD
09-21-2010, 10:24 AM
I can't believe Witten is now underrated.

Rosebud
09-21-2010, 10:34 AM
Finley has still a lot to prove before being put in front of Jason Witten. C'mon, we're talking about Jason Witten. Call me when Finley has a 1000 yards receiving yards, something that Witten has done twice (almost three times since he went short of 1000 by 48 yards two years ago) in his career while doing an incredible job blocking.

umm...I'm pretty sure I very clearly said that "Finley > Witten and Bennett is ridiculous"...

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-21-2010, 11:14 AM
I blame the ">" for that epic level of misunderstanding. I knew what you meant, had to read it over, but it was funny.

Nikolas
09-21-2010, 07:52 PM
Wade Phillips shouldn't be fired, but the OC Garrett definitely should. Their offensive playcalling has been horrid for the last few years.

D-Unit
09-21-2010, 08:28 PM
Bring Bill Cowher in now. I bet he'd win his first game.

katnip
09-22-2010, 07:18 PM
Yea, he should get fired

P-L
09-22-2010, 07:26 PM
Are you asking if he should be fired right now, during the season? If that is what you're asking, I would say no. Who would they replace him with? Jason Garrett? He's terrible and is holding the team back much more than Wade Phillips is. Dave Campo? He was a much worse head coach than Phillips. Would someone like Jon Gruden or Bill Cowher come in now, mid-season? I'm skeptical. Wade is a bad coach who probably should've been fired by now, but I don't think you fire him mid-season unless you know you can get someone else that is better.

Paul
09-22-2010, 07:43 PM
So Wade spoke with the media today, and he had some gems.

Apparently, missing is a FG is like dropping a pass. Not sure how that works out. And Buehler missing 4 straight FG in practice and Wade blames it on the hurricane type conditions of 10mph winds. Does he ******* think before he speaks.

yourfavestoner
09-22-2010, 08:12 PM
Bring Bill Cowher in now. I bet he'd win his first game.

Great match, but I still think he's going to Carolina.

Also, if the Cowboys lose this week do they fire Phillips going into the bye? Hmmmmm.

xxxxxxxx
09-22-2010, 08:19 PM
Okay so does that excuse the fact that Jerry Jones doesn't get offensive linemen? If you have a need, you address it no matter what. If you really want someone you move up and get them. Obviously Jerry placed a premium on RB, WR, CB and LB instead of OL and DL and that is why the Cowboys are as weak in the trenches as they are now. I mean had you not traded for Roy Williams the Cowboys could have had Alex Mack, Michael Oher, Eric Wood or Eben Britton in the 2009 draft. In 2010 Dallas moved up for Dez Bryant, instead of going for flash yet again why didn't Jerry move up the 1 extra spot to get Bryan Bulaga, I mean clearly Jerry wasn't against moving up.

And you've spent 2 5th round picks on kickers? Whoop de doo. How is that working out for you? Jerry probably should've realized that the one thing Buehler can't do is make field goals. Ignoring drafting an actual kicker in favor of a kick off specialist who runs fast and can lift a bunch of weight is a fail on your part.

So back to my point, Jerry is a terrible GM.

Dez Bryant is going to have a much bigger on the NFL than Bryan Bulaga, hombre. You fail, again.

BeerBaron
09-22-2010, 09:01 PM
Great match, but I still think he's going to Carolina.

Also, if the Cowboys lose this week do they fire Phillips going into the bye? Hmmmmm.

And do what? Promote Garrett?

http://images.memegenerator.net/Genius-Garrett/ImageMacro/2718961/Promotion-to-Head-Coach-Riots-in-Dallas.jpg

D-Unit
09-22-2010, 09:03 PM
And do what? Promote Garrett?

http://images.memegenerator.net/Genius-Garrett/ImageMacro/2718961/Promotion-to-Head-Coach-Riots-in-Dallas.jpg
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

Love that pic!

LonghornsLegend
09-22-2010, 09:07 PM
Okay so does that excuse the fact that Jerry Jones doesn't get offensive linemen? If you have a need, you address it no matter what. If you really want someone you move up and get them. Obviously Jerry placed a premium on RB, WR, CB and LB instead of OL and DL and that is why the Cowboys are as weak in the trenches as they are now. I mean had you not traded for Roy Williams the Cowboys could have had Alex Mack, Michael Oher, Eric Wood or Eben Britton in the 2009 draft. In 2010 Dallas moved up for Dez Bryant, instead of going for flash yet again why didn't Jerry move up the 1 extra spot to get Bryan Bulaga, I mean clearly Jerry wasn't against moving up.

And you've spent 2 5th round picks on kickers? Whoop de doo. How is that working out for you? Jerry probably should've realized that the one thing Buehler can't do is make field goals. Ignoring drafting an actual kicker in favor of a kick off specialist who runs fast and can lift a bunch of weight is a fail on your part.

So back to my point, Jerry is a terrible GM.


So what's your excuse on why the Philly O-line sucks? Or how about the Giants? What offensive lineman was Dallas going to take where they got Dez Bryant btw? Charles Brown is the only one close and he's nothing but a LT which Free has played amazing at.


But I'd love to hear what lineman Dallas ignored by taking Dez over.

BeerBaron
09-22-2010, 09:08 PM
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

Love that pic!

Many others where that came from.

http://images.memegenerator.net/Genius-Garrett/ImageMacro/2564200/If-he-gets-by-you-Alex-just-grab-his-throat-Golden.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/Genius-Garrett/ImageMacro/2564240/Need-a-big-play-Toss-it-to-Ogletree.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/Genius-Garrett/ImageMacro/2564069/Less-then-a-minute-left-I-think-Ill-try-this-forward-pass-thing.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/Genius-Garrett/ImageMacro/2563949/Two-minute-drill-Need-more-screens.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/Genius-Garrett/ImageMacro/2563768/Tashard-Choice-MOAR.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/Genius-Garrett/ImageMacro/2563738/3rd-and-10-Deepest-route-is-9-yards.jpg

http://images.memegenerator.net/Genius-Garrett/ImageMacro/2563671/I-need-long-yardage-Pass-it-to-the-Tight-End-oohhh-tight-end.jpg

Morton
09-22-2010, 09:31 PM
Wade is an excellent defensive coordinator. Head coach, not so much.

I say demote him to DC, and either promote Dave Campo or bring back Parcells.

Seriously - Parcells as HC and Wade as DC would be an amazing team.

Paul
09-22-2010, 09:32 PM
Wade is an excellent defensive coordinator. Head coach, not so much.

I say demote him to DC, and either promote Dave Campo or bring back Parcells.

Seriously - Parcells as HC and Wade as DC would be an amazing team.

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