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View Full Version : Jimmy Clausen is the new Carolina Panthers starting QB


boknows34
09-20-2010, 12:48 PM
Matt Moore benched after his poor start to the season.

Schefter reporting:

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/status/25041131968

stephenson86
09-20-2010, 01:01 PM
Doubt he's going to do much better than Moore.

D-Unit
09-20-2010, 01:05 PM
But Claussen is the future, so let him take his lumps.

bsaza2358
09-20-2010, 01:15 PM
If you've decided that Moore is not good enough, might as well try Claussen out to see if you made the right call in the draft. Could cost Fox his job, but I doubt the guy will be without a gig for long...

A Perfect Score
09-20-2010, 01:35 PM
Word is Fox is gone at the end of the season anyways, might as well see what Clausen can do in the meantime. Personally I don't think he will do any better then Moore.

Scotty D
09-20-2010, 01:41 PM
He's in a great situation. Above average offensive line and running backs plus Steve Smith. It will be hard to make excuses for him if he doesn't play well.

wicket
09-20-2010, 01:43 PM
I think Jimmy will do okay but not great. He is tough and good in running for his life.

RaiderNation
09-20-2010, 01:46 PM
He is going to put up numbers like Sanchez did last year, but no get the franchise QB hype since he wont make the playoffs and isnt in New York

crites09
09-20-2010, 01:55 PM
Bengals usually struggle against rookie QB's too so I'm kinda worried... Saying that I bet $50 on the Bengals to cover a -3 spread lol

NY+Giants=NYG
09-20-2010, 02:05 PM
That team is terrible. They aren't going to do much with him at the helm. I'd be very surprised if he can turn them around.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-20-2010, 02:06 PM
the OLine blows right now

we never found a replacement at RG for Keydrick Vincent (not that Vincent was great or anything, but we have trash there right now) and Jeff Otah is out

and Jordan Gross suddenly sucks

I'm not going to make any excuses for Clausen but this isn't the cozy situation everyone's made it out to be

zachsaints52
09-20-2010, 02:12 PM
Cool
(10char)

PoopSandwich
09-20-2010, 02:20 PM
oh god this is gonna be bad... they aren't doing anything, i doubt a rookie qb is gonna save them.

tjsunstein
09-20-2010, 02:28 PM
Jimmy Clausen is the last shot that John Fox has at keeping his job because Matt Moore is losing it for him.

ElectricEye
09-20-2010, 02:42 PM
Think it's safe to move Matt Moore to career backup category. Really liked him coming out, but he is what he is.

Miaoww
09-20-2010, 03:26 PM
Finally. Hello winning season.

SuperMcGee
09-20-2010, 03:27 PM
Don't really want to make a thread about it, but RYAN FITZPATRICK IS THE NEW BILLS STARTER!!

BloodBrother
09-20-2010, 03:28 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/PedroSuave/jclausen001.jpg

this is fabulous news

TACKLE
09-20-2010, 03:32 PM
RIP Carolina Panthers season.

Miaoww
09-20-2010, 03:37 PM
RIP Carolina Panthers season.

Why do you hate Clausen?

A Perfect Score
09-20-2010, 03:37 PM
Why do you hate Clausen?

It might have something to do with him being not good. Thats just a hunch though.

vidae
09-20-2010, 03:41 PM
Or it could be the hair.

Addict
09-20-2010, 03:42 PM
I would kinda like it if Clausen proves everyone wrong.

PackerLegend
09-20-2010, 03:44 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/PedroSuave/jclausen001.jpg

this is fabulous news

Would you really want this guy to be the QB of your team? Plus the dude takes pics with fat chicks.

Hurricanes25
09-20-2010, 03:46 PM
RIP Carolina Panthers season.

Their season is dying with Moore at the helm so they might as well give Clausen the chance.

Miaoww
09-20-2010, 03:46 PM
Would you really want this guy to be the QB of your team? Plus the dude takes pics with fat chicks.

Stafford takes pics with ugly chicks and everyone loves him...

TACKLE
09-20-2010, 03:47 PM
I would kinda like it if Clausen proves everyone wrong.

You mean prove wrong the majority of people who had him as a top 10 pick?

Mr.Regular
09-20-2010, 03:48 PM
LOVED Clausen as a prospect. Had him over Bradford and I stand by that. Hope he lights it up and proves me right. As long as his reported poor attitude and bitchy demeanor are gone, then I think he's going to be very successful. He's in a pretty good situation in Carolina and he has all the tools and decision making ability to be great.

Hurricanes25
09-20-2010, 03:49 PM
LOVED Clausen as a prospect. Had him over Bradford and I stand by that. Hope he lights it up and proves me right. As long as his reported poor attitude and bitchy demeanor are gone, then I think he's going to be very successful. He's in a pretty good situation in Carolina and he has all the tools and decision making ability to be great.

Yeah, I had him above Bradford as well. I would love to see him prove everybody wrong.

Addict
09-20-2010, 03:54 PM
You mean prove wrong the majority of people who had him as a top 10 pick?

no I mean all the college team rejects who cheered when he fell out of the first.

jrdrylie
09-20-2010, 04:04 PM
Stafford takes pics with ugly chicks and everyone loves him...

What??? Aside from the token ugly chick that every group of fine women has, Matt Stafford is only photographed with attractive women.

As for Clausen, he'll be proving Buffalo, St. Louis, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Minnesota, Denver, and Arizona wrong. The Panthers are much better off with him in there and he will have a substanially better season than Bradford does with the Rams.

NotRickJames
09-20-2010, 04:18 PM
I'd of given Moore another week, but he's been so dreadful since preseason that it's understandable. Clausen will be a good player, I believe.

Complex
09-20-2010, 04:29 PM
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c394/jmfreimann/clausen.jpg

This Guy?

jrdrylie
09-20-2010, 04:39 PM
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c394/jmfreimann/clausen.jpg

This Guy?

Worst picture taken of any quarterback ever in the history of the NFL. Unless there is one with Roethlisberger raping a dude in a bathroom, there is no picture worse than that one of Clausen.

BeerBaron
09-20-2010, 04:46 PM
Kyle Orton holding a bottle of Jack throwing up all over himself is clearly the greatest picture of any NFL by contrast.

Miaoww
09-20-2010, 04:47 PM
Worst picture taken of any quarterback ever in the history of the NFL. Unless there is one with Roethlisberger raping a dude in a bathroom, there is no picture worse than that one of Clausen.

Besides the one of Quinn grabbing that guy's crotch.

slightlyaraiderfan
09-20-2010, 04:49 PM
It's Jimmy time.

diabsoule
09-20-2010, 04:52 PM
Glad to see Carolina finally putting their Jimmy on.

jrdrylie
09-20-2010, 04:53 PM
Besides the one of Quinn grabbing that guy's crotch.

On man, I've never seen that one. That one would be worse.

Scotty D
09-20-2010, 04:53 PM
http://imgur.com/zuh0W.jpg

To be fair these are 10s at Notre Dame.

Don Vito
09-20-2010, 04:55 PM
What the ****? That is gross, if you are the starting QB at Notre Dame that should get you kicked off the team and/or capital punishment.

ThePudge
09-20-2010, 05:33 PM
Jimmy's going to have a fun first start.

Addict
09-20-2010, 05:39 PM
What the ****? That is gross, if you are the starting QB at Notre Dame that should get you kicked off the team and/or capital punishment.

I think we should force girls such as these to have their vaginal fluids replaced with sulpheric acid, so that if you try to poke them your dick just burns off.

BeerBaron
09-20-2010, 05:42 PM
I think we should force girls such as these to have their vaginal fluids replaced with sulpheric acid, so that if you try to poke them your dick just burns off.

See, the problem with that comes for all the college guys who like to drink. Eventually there's gonna be a fatty around after you've had a little too much....happens to everyone.

Addict
09-20-2010, 06:05 PM
See, the problem with that comes for all the college guys who like to drink. Eventually there's gonna be a fatty around after you've had a little too much....happens to everyone.

there is no excuse. It's evolution, it waits for no one.

also, alcohol is no reason for poking a whale.

BeerBaron
09-20-2010, 06:07 PM
there is no excuse. It's evolution, it waits for no one.

also, alcohol is no reason for poking a whale.

Alcohol is a good excuse. When your in college at least. For the rest of your life....it just makes you look like an alcoholic.

Addict
09-20-2010, 06:08 PM
Alcohol is a good excuse. When your in college at least. For the rest of your life....it just makes you look like an alcoholic.

one should still maintain a stadard. Or else: acid burns.

J255979-11nine
09-20-2010, 06:10 PM
there is no excuse. It's evolution, it waits for no one.

also, alcohol is no reason for poking a whale.

You have angered chubby chasers around the globe with this statement!

Splat
09-20-2010, 06:11 PM
I'm a fan of Clausen but would have liked to have seen him sit a year, that said what do they have to lose?

BeerBaron
09-20-2010, 06:19 PM
I'm a fan of Clausen but would have liked to have seen him sit a year, that said what do they have to lose?

Eh, I don't think he was the type of QB who needed to sit for a while. I think he could plug in, assuming they run the ball more and take some pressure off of him, and be an effective game manager.

Someone like Locker or Mallett though, I'd like to see them be able to sit wherever they eventually end up. Doubt that happens though with how many teams will need QBs.

Splat
09-20-2010, 06:23 PM
I'm pretty much in favor of sitting any rookie QB a year unless you don't have any other choice or he just flat out earns the job.

hawkeye123
09-20-2010, 06:25 PM
Clausen will prove his haters wrong.

Splat
09-20-2010, 06:26 PM
Clausen will prove his haters wrong.

In the long run I agree but not this year.

Day One Pick
09-20-2010, 07:12 PM
The QB on their roster who will retire with the most impressive career isn't Moore or Clausen. Tony Pike will be the starter by week 3 next season.

GB12
09-20-2010, 07:18 PM
I'm pretty much in favor of sitting any rookie QB a year unless you don't have any other choice or he just flat out earns the job.

I disagree completely. Unless it's a situation like Favre/Rodgers or McNabb/Kolb where there's a good long time veteran starter then throw the high draft pick in right away.

BeerBaron
09-20-2010, 07:23 PM
I disagree completely. Unless it's a situation like Favre/Rodgers or McNabb/Kolb where there's a good long time veteran starter then throw the high draft pick in right away.

For every Marino and Big Ben who played great as a rookie, there are several David Carr's who get beat up so badly early in their careers that they become gun shy later on.

It's really a situation by situation basis for me. Someone like Clausen who played a lot in college in a pro style system (ducks and looks around for YFS) on a pro team where they can (if they get out of their own way with playcalling) run the ball well behind a good-great o-line, I say play him.

holt_bruce81
09-20-2010, 07:37 PM
Clausen will prove his haters wrong.

No he won't.

boknows34
09-20-2010, 07:46 PM
Besides the one of Quinn grabbing that guy's crotch.

On man, I've never seen that one. That one would be worse.


You have now. What is it with Notre Dame QBs and embarrassing pictures?

http://sportscracklepop.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/brady.jpg

http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/Brady_Quinn.jpg

BlindSite
09-20-2010, 07:58 PM
This isn't a bad move by any stretch. Clausen has improved every day he's been under centre and he's been a great team mate, not even a whisper or declension despite Florio suggesting otherwise.

This season is going to tank and it's largely due to the labour issues the Panthers haven't spent any money on upgrading the areas they sorely needed to.

It sucks but it's life.

The team as a whole is the youngest in the NFL IIRC and the Panthers may have been competitive if everything came together and still might but it's just not there.

The move is a good one, it'll force the coaching staff into smarter game plans something that was obviously lacking the past two weeks and hopefully provide a spark for the offensive line to play better than they did in past weeks. The Offensive line hasn't been great but Moore was holding the ball too long making them look worse than they are, Moore is something I can't explain he looked great last year, did everything right, he's faltering now.

My support is behind Clausen and I'm happy to support him for 2 years at least behind center before I declare "he won't prove anyone wrong" like some mouth breathers like to. He's in a familiar offense with good run game support he can't do any worse than Moore did the first two weeks. Cincinnati has a good secondary so it's a big test, but based on his familiarity with the offense Carolina uses (he used the same on at Notre D) he shouldn't need as much coddling as most rookies.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-20-2010, 08:02 PM
For every Marino and Big Ben who played great as a rookie, there are several David Carr's who get beat up so badly early in their careers that they become gun shy later on.

It's really a situation by situation basis for me. Someone like Clausen who played a lot in college in a pro style system (ducks and looks around for YFS) on a pro team where they can (if they get out of their own way with playcalling) run the ball well behind a good-great o-line, I say play him.

You can just as easily argue that David Carr sucked ass from the start. It's no coincidence that the guy who replaced him when he finally got hurt ended up moving the ball really well, and that Matt Schaub is now lighting it up. Sure, the offensive line has gotten better, but most of the time when there are consistent, season-long or more protection issues, at least half of the blame has to lie with the quarterback. Maybe he's not mobile enough to step up in the pocket, maybe he isn't making reads quickly enough, maybe he doesn't have enough faith in his protection and leaves the pocket too early(as a former OL that was a big pet peeve. I can't block the DE in front of me if he knows where the QB is and I don't). For whatever reason, it seems to be the case. Look at the improvement in Dallas' offense after switching to Romo from Bledsoe. Look at how much better Philly's offense looked with Vick running it than Kolb.

Even on the Bears, look at how bad that offensive line is and then look at how few sacks have been given up so far. Jay is insane at avoiding sacks. Orton isn't even that bad at it, but the difference is huge and can be seen easily.

Anyway I agree with GB, I think that some guys have it, and some guys don't. I'd rather find out right away and cut my losses after 2-3 years than have him sit for 2, then all of a sudden he's only started for a season or 2 and it's time to renew his contract but we're not sure if he's ever gonna fix his stuff.

BlindSite
09-20-2010, 08:29 PM
You can just as easily argue that David Carr sucked ass from the start. It's no coincidence that the guy who replaced him when he finally got hurt ended up moving the ball really well, and that Matt Schaub is now lighting it up. Sure, the offensive line has gotten better, but most of the time when there are consistent, season-long or more protection issues, at least half of the blame has to lie with the quarterback. Maybe he's not mobile enough to step up in the pocket, maybe he isn't making reads quickly enough, maybe he doesn't have enough faith in his protection and leaves the pocket too early(as a former OL that was a big pet peeve. I can't block the DE in front of me if he knows where the QB is and I don't). For whatever reason, it seems to be the case. Look at the improvement in Dallas' offense after switching to Romo from Bledsoe. Look at how much better Philly's offense looked with Vick running it than Kolb.

Even on the Bears, look at how bad that offensive line is and then look at how few sacks have been given up so far. Jay is insane at avoiding sacks. Orton isn't even that bad at it, but the difference is huge and can be seen easily.

Anyway I agree with GB, I think that some guys have it, and some guys don't. I'd rather find out right away and cut my losses after 2-3 years than have him sit for 2, then all of a sudden he's only started for a season or 2 and it's time to renew his contract but we're not sure if he's ever gonna fix his stuff.

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Word is that Fox win lose or draw this season is leaving and it's apparently mutual the brass doesn't want him 100% and he doesn't want to be there 100%.

He gives Clausen a shot and the organization finds out of he can play or not. If he can and he plays well even if his stat line isn't great they can promote Davidson, and either promote Scherer (QB coach) or another guy from that NE offense tree.

Clausen sucks terribly gut everyone not on the defensive side of the ball and use the first round pick next year (likely a top 10 anyway) to draft whomever the hell they want at QB. The offensive line has talent even if they haven't done well without Otah as yet and a good set of running backs anyway.

Carolina if nothing else has talent on both sides of the ball and solid pieces to build around so if all else fails they can bring in someone who only has to put it together and find that QB and it's ok, if that QB is on the roster then might as well find out now in a season that's already tanking.

armageddon
09-20-2010, 09:20 PM
I wish Clausen g/l, but I am sure glad the Rams took Bradford.

BlindSite
09-20-2010, 09:32 PM
With Rookie QBs I think the only proven is that it's something of a crapshoot. See how either looks in 3 years before making judgment imo.

Thecollegedropout
09-20-2010, 09:55 PM
What the ****? That is gross, if you are the starting QB at Notre Dame that should get you kicked off the team and/or capital punishment.
Well someone did give him a shiner on campus............

SchizophrenicBatman
09-21-2010, 12:09 AM
For every Marino and Big Ben who played great as a rookie, there are several David Carr's who get beat up so badly early in their careers that they become gun shy later on.

It's really a situation by situation basis for me. Someone like Clausen who played a lot in college in a pro style system (ducks and looks around for YFS) on a pro team where they can (if they get out of their own way with playcalling) run the ball well behind a good-great o-line, I say play him.

Weis' ND offense mightve toed the line more than some would think when in comes to pro principles, but in fairness the Carolina offense is basically a high school offense. Run, run, run, run, lob the ball to the 1 good receiver on your team, run.

BeerBaron
09-21-2010, 12:26 AM
Weis' ND offense mightve toed the line more than some would think when in comes to pro principles, but in fairness the Carolina offense is basically a high school offense. Run, run, run, run, lob the ball to the 1 good receiver on your team, run.

Well that is what you'd think they'd do. Doesn't seem to be the case though.....Maybe that changes with a rookie in at QB.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-21-2010, 12:42 AM
We ran on first down on the first 9 possessions against the Bucs. They pass when they lose the lead. Now, the OC has the intelligence of a high schooler so he abandons the run too early but the preference is to go to ground 60+% of the time

In Moore's starts last year the breakdown was:

20 pass, 33 run
30 pass, 24 run (loss)
33 pass, 40 run
20 pass, 46 run
23 pass, 37 run

BlindSite
09-21-2010, 02:48 AM
This year it hasn't been close to that which is a shame. I think they're missing Otah more than we know and the line, whatever the stat sheet says has been shuffled a rotated a little bit on game day.

From the centre left it's solid as a rock but from the RG to RT position it's lacking a little firepower, Otah should help change that but we'll have to wait and see.

BloodBrother
09-21-2010, 03:07 AM
You have now. What is it with Notre Dame QBs and embarrassing pictures?

http://sportscracklepop.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/brady.jpg

http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/Brady_Quinn.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/therichs/quinnhomo.jpg

Brady Quinn approves of this post


Also...

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/therichs/quinnvillagepeople.jpg

Addict
09-21-2010, 05:07 AM
I wish Clausen g/l, but I am sure glad the Rams took Bradford.

well yes they're obviously not of the same caliber. That's like saying I wish some second round DT all the best but I'm glad the Lions drafted Suh.

Addict
09-21-2010, 08:13 AM
wait all three of us? yeah. i can't wait till we're proved wrong either. that would SO serve us right for not licking the nuts of every notre dame qb who comes out.

otherwise, all the morons who think that he's better than brady quinn can make the same excuses they made for quinn until it's finally clear that he's garbage as a player.

ad hom sure is fun.

there is a difference between not licking nuts and blind, irrational hate. Which is what many show at this point.

hyperboles are a great amount of fun as well.

Addict
09-21-2010, 08:24 AM
to be fair, i was hyperbolizing to enhance the ad hom.

you've just blown my mind.

brat316
09-21-2010, 09:07 AM
Soooo yeah....Jimmy gonna win.

Miaoww
09-21-2010, 10:19 AM
well yes they're obviously not of the same caliber. That's like saying I wish some second round DT all the best but I'm glad the Lions drafted Suh.

Huh. I must have watched two different QBs in college then. I'd have taken Clausen over Bradford.

Addict
09-21-2010, 10:21 AM
Huh. I must have watched two different QBs in college then. I'd have taken Clausen over Bradford.

which is why you aren't employed by an NFL team.

Miaoww
09-21-2010, 10:40 AM
So what makes you like Bradford more than Clausen? I'm intrigued.

Addict
09-21-2010, 10:54 AM
So what makes you like Bradford more than Clausen? I'm intrigued.

when the hell did my personal views on quarterbacks become relevant to this discussion?

armageddon
09-21-2010, 10:54 AM
well yes they're obviously not of the same caliber. That's like saying I wish some second round DT all the best but I'm glad the Lions drafted Suh.



Many on this board think Clausen is better than Bradford for some odd reason. Can you imagine if the Rams took Clausen with the #1 overall ? lol

LizardState
09-21-2010, 12:49 PM
Fox is trying to keep his job in Carolina so he figures to roll the dice on Clausen sooner rather than later.

brat316
09-21-2010, 01:42 PM
Clausen just WINS.

A Perfect Score
09-21-2010, 01:45 PM
Fox is trying to keep his job in Carolina so he figures to roll the dice on Clausen sooner rather than later.

Fox isn't going to be in Carolina once the season is over regardless of how the Panthers finish.

descendency
09-21-2010, 02:16 PM
Clausen just WINS.

LOL@ The massive trolling going on here.

armageddon
09-26-2010, 07:45 PM
Clausen just WINS.



Bradford > Clausen by a large margin.

Miaoww
09-26-2010, 07:56 PM
Bradford > Clausen by a large margin.

$46m a margin?

I thought Clausen was put into a difficult situation and did well. He's going to be a very good QB in this league.

Brodeur
09-26-2010, 08:06 PM
$46m a margin?

I thought Clausen was put into a difficult situation and did well. He's going to be a very good QB in this league.

Bradford won a game with Kenneth Darby and Keith Toston as his main backs for a good portion of it, and Mark Clayton as his number 1 receiver.

Basileus777
09-26-2010, 08:10 PM
$46m a margin?

I thought Clausen was put into a difficult situation and did well. He's going to be a very good QB in this league.

Cost effectiveness isn't really a great way to judge a potential franchise QB.

Brent
09-26-2010, 09:10 PM
I watched that Rams game, along with all their other games. I am convinced that Bradford is the real deal. Also, I am quick to judgment.

FuzzyGopher
09-26-2010, 11:05 PM
I watched that Rams game, along with all their other games. I am convinced that Bradford is the real deal. Also, I am quick to judgment.

He looked really good considering the situation he is in. His offensive line isn't very good, he basically has no one at receiver and his only weapon really is Steven Jackson. When he had time he made some good throws and his arm strength and accuracy looked impressive.

BlindSite
09-26-2010, 11:07 PM
Bradford is the real deal.

Clausen showed a lot today that makes me think he might be too. The fumbles attributed to him weren't wholly his fault and after the first half he looked fine when he settled in.

He's decisive moves extremely well in and out of the pocket and made extremely good decisions on all but one pass.

Clausen gets one start against the best cornerback tandem in the NFL without much of a wide receiver outside of Smith and he's written off.

Give it three years, Clausen looked good enough today for his first start.

Bengalsrocket
09-27-2010, 05:12 AM
Bradford is the real deal.

Clausen showed a lot today that makes me think he might be too. The fumbles attributed to him weren't wholly his fault and after the first half he looked fine when he settled in.

He's decisive moves extremely well in and out of the pocket and made extremely good decisions on all but one pass.

Clausen gets one start against the best cornerback tandem in the NFL without much of a wide receiver outside of Smith and he's written off.

Give it three years, Clausen looked good enough today for his first start.

I'll agree with Cincinnati's cornerback tandem being the best (or at least one of the best), but we do have an awful pass rush and our linebackers aren't the greatest in coverage. We also were clearly putting 8-9 in the box on the majority of our plays (Roy Williams behind the LoS on every play as evidence).

Clausen looked like a rookie, but he did hold his own. Not much to gauge from this NFL start though, so let's reserve as much judgment as we can here. :P

Addict
09-27-2010, 05:45 AM
Clausen is behind a panthers line that has looked pretty abysmal though. That said Bradford is just doing an excellent job right now.

LonghornsLegend
09-27-2010, 05:57 AM
$46m a margin?

I thought Clausen was put into a difficult situation and did well. He's going to be a very good QB in this league.

Lol. This is like the 4th time I've read this recently. Funny because after the draft his situation was so perfect and easily the best situation you could be put into. Best RB tandem in the league, an elite WR in Steve Smith, a running team that doesn't rely on the passing game, etc etc. Now all of a sudden it's a "difficult situation"?


If the Panthers are a "difficult situation", what does that make the Rams? It's really hard to have a better situation for a rookie QB then what the Panthers have.

BlindSite
09-27-2010, 06:25 AM
Lol. This is like the 4th time I've read this recently. Funny because after the draft his situation was so perfect and easily the best situation you could be put into. Best RB tandem in the league, an elite WR in Steve Smith, a running team that doesn't rely on the passing game, etc etc. Now all of a sudden it's a "difficult situation"?


If the Panthers are a "difficult situation", what does that make the Rams? It's really hard to have a better situation for a rookie QB then what the Panthers have.

Just because Clausen played worse than Bradford doesn't mean he didn't show promise. You didn't see the game, or any of the Panthers games, you've only seen the stat sheet.

The offensive line that the Panthers relied on last year is missing Otah and have a 2nd year late round pick at guard, who's there for his run blocking ability.

What's happening is that they're stacking the box on the early downs, double covering smith and the back up RT isn't holding down his piece of the puzzle. Neither has Wharton for the most part this year.

For whatever reason, the play calling is allowing defense to readily key on what the Panthers are doing. Otah comes back the offense will look a little better, but Clausen showed a lot of promise and ffs it was his first NFL start.

Peyton Manning didn't have a QB rating above 66 until his 7th start, no rookie QB regardless of their situation plays well the first three or four times they lace up their cleats in the NFL there's maybe two or three in the modern era and the only recent one is Matt Ryan.

He looked good where it counts, he was decisive, he lead the huddle, changed up some plays successfully at the line, drove down the field well on two occasions only to be let down by fumbles and dropped passes in the end zone.

He looked a lot better than Matt Moore give him some time.

Miaoww
09-27-2010, 07:33 AM
Lol. This is like the 4th time I've read this recently. Funny because after the draft his situation was so perfect and easily the best situation you could be put into. Best RB tandem in the league, an elite WR in Steve Smith, a running team that doesn't rely on the passing game, etc etc. Now all of a sudden it's a "difficult situation"?


If the Panthers are a "difficult situation", what does that make the Rams? It's really hard to have a better situation for a rookie QB then what the Panthers have.

The offensive line is playing like ****. What was a strength has become a weakness. That's why Williams and Stewart have been anonymous this season.

brat316
09-27-2010, 10:53 AM
Somehow the Rams line has jelled together, while the Panthers line has fallen apart. Whats up with Jordan Gross?

Even look at their running game its horrible, at the start of the season its looked like a good place for Jimmy, and horrible for Sam. My how the tables have turned.

dabears10
09-27-2010, 10:55 AM
Newsflash: Rookie QB looks like rookie QB: Negatives outweigh positives!

brat316
09-27-2010, 10:58 AM
Newsflash: Rookie QB looks like rookie QB: Negatives outweigh positives!

Thats true. Manning looked horrible as well, as a rookie.

A Perfect Score
09-27-2010, 10:59 AM
Anyone trying to suggest that Sam Bradford is in a more advantageous position then Jimmy Clausen is an absolute idiot, regardless of how bad the Panthers may be playing at this particular moment. Sam Bradford has elevated the play of the absolutely atrocious supporting cast the Rams handed him, whereas Clausen came in and played to the level of his team, which right now is just not very good. Regardless, I would take Steve Smith in triple coverage over anything the Rams have to offer at this point, and Deangelo and Jstew is almost unfair in helping out a rookie QB.

...
09-27-2010, 11:42 AM
The problem is, no matter how much talent Carolina has, they're still coached by John Fox and his crew of inept patsies.

BlindSite
09-27-2010, 04:13 PM
please quote every post in this thread in which he was written off after the game.

can't find any? that's because you completely made it up so that you can play the poor, oppressed victim. it's seriously pathetic.

Someone replace your tampons with sand paper eh?

I was simply pointing out it's one game and its incredibly foolish to make conclusions especially when the Cincinatti Carolina game was one of the least broadcast 1pm games (i.e. I know the vast majority of people who're commenting on Clausen's play didn't watch the game and likely haven't seen the previous two).

There're offensive problems beyond , Williams, Clausen and Gross who played quite well against Cincinnati. I've already pointed them out.

LonghornsLegend
09-27-2010, 04:29 PM
Just because Clausen played worse than Bradford doesn't mean he didn't show promise. You didn't see the game, or any of the Panthers games, you've only seen the stat sheet.




Where did I ever mention that Clausen didn't show promise, or the stat sheet, or any of the other useless points you brought up? Where did I even act like I saw the game, or that I even commented on what happened in the game? way to jump to conclusions to be a homer as fast as you can and bring up irrelevant points to things I never even came close to mentioning.





The offensive line that the Panthers relied on last year is missing Otah and have a 2nd year late round pick at guard, who's there for his run blocking ability.

What's happening is that they're stacking the box on the early downs, double covering smith and the back up RT isn't holding down his piece of the puzzle. Neither has Wharton for the most part this year.

For whatever reason, the play calling is allowing defense to readily key on what the Panthers are doing. Otah comes back the offense will look a little better, but Clausen showed a lot of promise and ffs it was his first NFL start.





Yea, because the Rams O-line is 10x better then the Panthers line right? Don't forget people were saying Clausen>Bradford and that they were in the same class, but a good QB makes a bad O-line better. The Rams are terrible in pass blocking, and run blocking.







Peyton Manning didn't have a QB rating above 66 until his 7th start, no rookie QB regardless of their situation plays well the first three or four times they lace up their cleats in the NFL there's maybe two or three in the modern era and the only recent one is Matt Ryan.

He looked good where it counts, he was decisive, he lead the huddle, changed up some plays successfully at the line, drove down the field well on two occasions only to be let down by fumbles and dropped passes in the end zone.

He looked a lot better than Matt Moore give him some time.



Ah yes, the ol' "well Peyton Manning sucked as a rookie and look how he turned out" argument, we hear that every single year, about every single rookie QB, so that's nothing new.


Once again, where did I once mention how bad Clausen looked, played, or will be in my post? I'd love to hear what you come up with because I never did.


I responded to people talking so much about how all of a sudden Carolina is such a "difficult situation" for Clausen to step into. Oh yea what a poor guy. If only he had 1 above average RB to hand off too, because most QB's can do much much better then having Deangelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart.


Maybe if he had an elite WR to throw to? That's surely help. Maybe if he had 2 above average bookend tackles to protect him? Obviously if you don't have Oher and Gaither there your QB will play like a bum.


The irony of it all is you will hype up any Carolina player, to the max, even when he doesn't deserve it. But now to keep Clausen from getting trashed, all of a sudden your going to trash any and every Panther because they all just make him look bad.


APS hit the nail on the head. Bradford elevated the play of the entire team, that's what you want to see from a QB. But before you jump to the homer rage and start going into a rant over all the Panthers that magically suck on your team now, take the time to actually read what someone is saying, because I didn't even mention the play of Clausen, or what he did in the game, nor did I try and act like I watched the game.


I commented on the surrounding pieces. If you want a QB to step into a better team/situation/supporting cast then the one Clausen came into, you'd have to expect a playoff team to trade up, draft a QB in the top 10, and sit him 2-3 years until you filled every piece on the team in the process.

armageddon
09-27-2010, 06:02 PM
You want to see ugly ? Imagine Clausen playing on the Rams with their line and WR's. Bradford's mobility, accuracy and smarts are making him into a top 5 future QB. Imagine if he had a couple weapons. The Rams could and should be 3-0, but playing Arizona, the Raiders and the Skins aren't real measuring sticks. Those 3 teams are bad, real bad.

Saints-Tigers
09-27-2010, 06:05 PM
MAn. Bradford has like 5 yards per pass, more ints than picks, sub 60% completion percentage.

The fellatio for young QBs that play below average instead of terrible is ridiculous on this site.

If a rookie QB comes in and completes more than 50% of his passes, he's Peyton MAnning, every year.

BlindSite
09-27-2010, 06:52 PM
Where did I ever mention that Clausen didn't show promise, or the stat sheet, or any of the other useless points you brought up? Where did I even act like I saw the game, or that I even commented on what happened in the game? way to jump to conclusions to be a homer as fast as you can and bring up irrelevant points to things I never even came close to mentioning.

So you're getting angry because I said it's silly to comment on how he looked without seeing the game?

Relax, I'm not attacking you or your analysis, it was more directed at the fact that the perceived strengths of the team have failed at this point in the season. Which is having a massive impact.




Yea, because the Rams O-line is 10x better then the Panthers line right? Don't forget people were saying Clausen>Bradford and that they were in the same class, but a good QB makes a bad O-line better. The Rams are terrible in pass blocking, and run blocking.

I agree Roethlisberger and Rogers have both made their lines look worse holding on to the ball too long and Moore did the same thing to the Panthers' line. Sure the Panthers line is better than the Rams' but right now the right side needs Otah back if it's going to return to form.

Any line missing it's right side starters from last year is going to have some inconsistency early in the season. In fact, Clausen was sacked once yesterday and that's when Crocker came flying in unblocked on a blitz. The previous two weeks, moore's indecision caused 4 per game.

I know a QB makes an offensive line look better, I saw a huge difference when the QB makes a read and passes the ball instead of getting happy feet. Clausen made the line look a world better.




Ah yes, the ol' "well Peyton Manning sucked as a rookie and look how he turned out" argument, we hear that every single year, about every single rookie QB, so that's nothing new.

DeAngelo Williams sucked for 2 years too, Sanchez looked pretty terrible last year, Matt Ryan seemed to regress his second year, Mario Williams didn't light it up as a rookie, the majority of players take time, that was my point. It doesn't matter how bad a rookie looks on the stat sheet early on in their career regardless of position it matters what you can see. That's the point I was trying to make. I didn't exactly go godwin with it.

I'm sorry for pointing out the obvious it wasn't necessarily directed just at you.


Once again, where did I once mention how bad Clausen looked, played, or will be in my post? I'd love to hear what you come up with because I never did.

I perceived that you were saying that because Bradford's situation is worse and he performed better than Clausen did yesterday stat wise that it's a foregone conclusion Clausen won't develop as armageddon and Brodeur were so quick to declare Bradford the best QB from the class. If my perception was wrong, I wholeheartedly apologise for jumping to unfair conclusions.


I responded to people talking so much about how all of a sudden Carolina is such a "difficult situation" for Clausen to step into. Oh yea what a poor guy. If only he had 1 above average RB to hand off too, because most QB's can do much much better then having Deangelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart.


I'm not saying he doesn't have it easier than some walk into, but take into account that the right hand side of his line, what was the bull dozer side is missing, he's got rookies as his wide receivers outside of smith and he's facing a stacked box it's not as great a situation as it appeared on the surface.

With the line and the backs it was natural to assume that the Panthers could run on anyone, arrogant, homerish, whatever, it wasn't exactly an inaccurate assessment based on the last two seasons. Bad Play calling, bad execution on the line has prevented that from happening, when it comes time to pass, play calling keeping the backs and tight ends into block instead of using them as receivers where they'd be better served has forced Gettis a late pick and LaFell and dinged up 3rd rounder into the roll opposite a double covered Smith. Even Ronde Barber said "there's not much outside of Smith". They're just too inexperienced and that's causing some issues on the drives.

The way the team is built by Fox and Hurney this year is failing, Richardson refused to open the cheque book and we dumped our veterans. What more do you want me to say? What should be happening isn't.



The irony of it all is you will hype up any Carolina player, to the max, even when he doesn't deserve it. But now to keep Clausen from getting trashed, all of a sudden your going to trash any and every Panther because they all just make him look bad.

I'll hype any player if I think they're going to be good, I'm an optimist. I'll openly and freely admit when I'm wrong. I was wrong about Delhomme, I was wrong about Moore and I was wrong about the ability of the defense to cover the mistakes of the offense this year. The reason why I'm defending Clausen is because when I hated the pick I went back and watched his games at ND, anything I could acquire and I grew to like it, yesterday I saw a lot of promise, more than I've seen from anyone to play the position for Carolina.


I commented on the surrounding pieces. If you want a QB to step into a better team/situation/supporting cast then the one Clausen came into, you'd have to expect a playoff team to trade up, draft a QB in the top 10, and sit him 2-3 years until you filled every piece on the team in the process.

See above, the pieces on paper look good based on the past two years, but for a reason I cannot quantify they're not playing well. I'm not saying they magically suck, quite the opposite, just that they're not playing well. Which is why I mentioned the issues with the line and the play calling. Good pieces don't mean much if they're playing badly.

I think part of it has to do with coaching, bad camp for key guys and lack of chemistry. It sucks but the pieces around Clausen while better on paper than Bradfords aren't playing like it.

armageddon
09-27-2010, 07:26 PM
MAn. Bradford has like 5 yards per pass, more ints than picks, sub 60% completion percentage.

The fellatio for young QBs that play below average instead of terrible is ridiculous on this site.

If a rookie QB comes in and completes more than 50% of his passes, he's Peyton MAnning, every year.



Stats aren't everything. You are discounting his leadership and poise. The kid has the "it" factor.

Shiver
09-27-2010, 08:15 PM
Jeez njx, completely dodging the point that you have sand paper tampons.

BlindSite
09-27-2010, 08:21 PM
ah, the always brilliant 'ad hom attack in place of saying anything substantive, or admitting that i'm playing the victim because i'm incapable of doing anything else.' nice work.



and SO many people made conclusions. so no, awesome work. thanks for the input. maybe you can add on another few pages about how we should stop talking so much **** about the panthers. i mean, you might as well point it out, even though it hasn't happened.



yippee.

You're crawling up my ass about ad hom attacks then in the very next paragraph go on about how I'm going insane over non-existent conclusions, two of which are abundantly clear on the same page, the third for which I apologised in my post...

What more do you want, I apologise to the person whose post I misinterpreted and rebutted the two that weren't really open to interpretation?

Just looking to but heads today huh.

V.I.P
10-18-2010, 02:59 PM
Just heard on NFLN that Matt Moore was named the starter for next week.

hawkeye123
10-18-2010, 03:01 PM
Just heard on NFLN that Matt Moore was named the starter for next week.

I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing for the niners.

BeerBaron
10-18-2010, 03:18 PM
The Panthers are going to be so screwed up....Unless Moore plays well enough to take them out of the top 5 or so draft picks, they're not going to know what they really have in Clausen in order to decide whether or not to take one of the top QBs if available. I don't like it.....

I think the Panthers really should stick with Clausen all year and the Browns with McCoy. Both are bad teams who need to see what they have at QB so they can decide whether to go after someone new or not.

bearsfan_51
10-18-2010, 03:22 PM
Clausen is terrible, they know what they have, that's why he's sitting.

Brodeur
10-18-2010, 03:24 PM
Clausen is terrible, they know what they have, that's why he's sitting.

I'd still give him another week or two, but I pretty much agree.

Hurricanes25
10-18-2010, 03:26 PM
I think the Panthers really should stick with Clausen all year and the Browns with McCoy. Both are bad teams who need to see what they have at QB so they can decide whether to go after someone new or not.

Agreed. If they show you something you give them another season. If not, then they can join the Luck, Locker and Mallet sweepstakes.

Bucs_Rule
10-18-2010, 03:42 PM
The Panthers are going to be so screwed up....Unless Moore plays well enough to take them out of the top 5 or so draft picks, they're not going to know what they really have in Clausen in order to decide whether or not to take one of the top QBs if available. I don't like it.....

I think the Panthers really should stick with Clausen all year and the Browns with McCoy. Both are bad teams who need to see what they have at QB so they can decide whether to go after someone new or not.

I completely agree. The only sliver of a chance either has to keep their job is if Clausen or McCoy shows a ton of progress and looks on the way to stardom. An organization would be hesitant to fire a coach who has made great improvement with a rookie QB. Winning a game or two more with a mediocre QB isn't going to save them.

Brodeur
10-18-2010, 03:44 PM
I think the problem here is that McCoy actually showed something against the best defense in the NFL, and Clausen has looked like ****.

BeerBaron
10-18-2010, 03:47 PM
Both McCoy and Clausen have been working with a lot of garbage too. The Panthers especially, should have a good run game but they get behind so quickly, they have to throw it and the Panthers just have nothing at WR or TE to help him out.

MetSox17
10-18-2010, 04:37 PM
Colt McCoy would look like Peyton Manning if he had Deangelo Williams and Steve Smith.

Brodeur
10-18-2010, 04:40 PM
Colt McCoy would make Peyton Manning look like Jimmy Clausen if he had Deangelo Williams and Steve Smith.

I think this is better.

MetSox17
10-18-2010, 04:47 PM
I think this is better.

<333333333

Brodeur
10-18-2010, 04:50 PM
so clausen is the new brady quinn? i haven't been able to watch a panthers game... well, at all this season. is this the start to another 3 years of 'it's not that notre dame qb X sucks, it's that he wasn't given enough chances'?

I think people will learn from Brady Quinn's total ineptitude.

Shane P. Hallam
10-18-2010, 04:51 PM
Clausen hasn't played as poorly as people are making it out to be. He hasn't been good, but with the pass rush that is coming through, he's had a few solid games.

wicket
10-18-2010, 04:53 PM
yeah, I think he actually played pretty well against my saints

wicket
10-18-2010, 04:59 PM
yeah, I think he actually played pretty well against my saints

To put it in perspective he didnt play better than max hall did against us though

BeerBaron
10-18-2010, 05:01 PM
To put it in perspective he didnt play better than max hall did against us though

So you can beat Peyton Manning, Brett Favre and Kurt Warner to win a Superbowl, but you'll just be damned vs. those rookie QBs eh?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-18-2010, 05:30 PM
so clausen is the new brady quinn? i haven't been able to watch a panthers game... well, at all this season. is this the start to another 3 years of 'it's not that notre dame qb X sucks, it's that he wasn't given enough chances'?

Stop hating. Real weapons at WR would be able to catch balls thrown 5 feet over their head in the flat.

scpanther22
10-18-2010, 05:42 PM
No need to David Carr the kid.

let him sit on the bench and prepare for next year.

wicket
10-18-2010, 05:47 PM
So you can beat Peyton Manning, Brett Favre and Kurt Warner to win a Superbowl, but you'll just be damned vs. those rookie QBs eh?

saints are just playing like crap at the moment and Im very happy that we are 4-2 despite the level of play, the offense is slacking and the D is selling out on the run. Therefore partially the Rookie QBs have a chance to shine. On top of that the Saints defense showed last year that they are better against good QBs than bad ones (Getting torched by Freeman, Romo, Campbell and Moore whilst containing Warner, Manning, Brady, Favre and the likes)

BeerBaron
10-18-2010, 05:52 PM
saints are just playing like crap at the moment and Im very happy that we are 4-2 despite the level of play, the offense is slacking and the D is selling out on the run. Therefore partially the Rookie QBs have a chance to shine. On top of that the Saints defense showed last year that they are better against good QBs than bad ones (Getting torched by Freeman, Romo, Campbell and Moore whilst containing Warner, Manning, Brady, Favre and the likes)

Your going to piss off some Cowboys fans there with that....

No need to David Carr the kid.

let him sit on the bench and prepare for next year.

And if he doesn't look good then, but they missed out on the chance to draft a new guy like Luck or Locker....then what?

Clausen isn't some uber-raw rookie coming out of a quirky college system who needs some seasoning (like a Tim Tebow.) I think the more experience he gets, the better he can eventually be (or not be if he proves that he sucks long term.)

wicket
10-18-2010, 05:54 PM
Your going to piss off some Cowboys fans there with that....


8) to bad I can't just post the smiley

SchizophrenicBatman
10-18-2010, 10:14 PM
so clausen is the new brady quinn? i haven't been able to watch a panthers game... well, at all this season. is this the start to another 3 years of 'it's not that notre dame qb X sucks, it's that he wasn't given enough chances'?

yea he's getting jobbed the undrafted oregon state qb who sucks!

all orchestrated by jeff davidson, the mastermind of ruining careers of ND Qbs

Stop hating. Real weapons at WR would be able to catch balls thrown 5 feet over their head in the flat.

actually all the passes in the flat are thrown into the ground. the throws 5 yards over peoples head are the 3 yard out routes to the sidelines.

Complex
10-18-2010, 10:44 PM
Sam Bradford plays with WRs off the practice squad and still plays well. Remember Sam Bradford played in the spread offense and had a noodle arm was suppose to be a BUST.

Jimmy Clausen was pro-ready and played in a pro-style offense, oh yeah had laser arm so lets no make excuses for him.

Colt has looked 10x better than Jimmy and he had his top WRs carted off.

Morton
10-18-2010, 11:28 PM
Why did anyone even consider Jimmy Clausen one of the top QBs in this draft?

He fell to the second round for a reason: he sucked in college, and he sucks in the NFL.

Brodeur
10-18-2010, 11:30 PM
Why did anyone even consider Jimmy Clausen one of the top QBs in this draft?

He fell to the second round for a reason: he sucked in college, and he sucks in the NFL.

He didn't suck in college...

Morton
10-18-2010, 11:32 PM
He didn't suck in college...

Did he win any big games? Did he take his team to a signature bowl game victory?

Brodeur
10-18-2010, 11:33 PM
Did he win any big games? Did he take his team to a signature bowl game victory?

I forgot that's it's remarkably easy to overcome having no run game and no defense.

Saints-Tigers
10-18-2010, 11:40 PM
Did he win any big games? Did he take his team to a signature bowl game victory?

Did Peyton Manning?

hawkeye123
10-18-2010, 11:42 PM
Did he win any big games? Did he take his team to a signature bowl game victory?

Did you watch any ND games in 09?

He pretty much carried ND on his back to 6 wins with a ****** up foot, no ground game, a terrible underachieving O-Line, and oh ya, the worst defense in college football.

Complex
10-18-2010, 11:44 PM
Did Peyton Manning?

I think his problem was not beating florida .....

BigBanger
10-19-2010, 12:20 AM
I think his problem was not beating florida .....
So you're saying there's a difference between not being able to beat Florida compared to... oh, I don't know, Syracuse? Navy? You're saying that's not the same?

I don't know. Jimmy had no help!!!!!! I think ND was also only allowed to play 8 people on defense one game and only 4 O-Linemen and he still barely lost. Jimmy was a winner, he just had a bad team. If you asked Jimmy to take a punch in the face. He would do it. Guy is a beast.

scpanther22
10-19-2010, 07:38 AM
Your going to piss off some Cowboys fans there with that....



And if he doesn't look good then, but they missed out on the chance to draft a new guy like Luck or Locker....then what?

Clausen isn't some uber-raw rookie coming out of a quirky college system who needs some seasoning (like a Tim Tebow.) I think the more experience he gets, the better he can eventually be (or not be if he proves that he sucks long term.)

Thats why you bring in a vet next year.to back Clausen up

This was not a move made up top this was a move made by John Fox the lame duck HC that needs wins now and Matt Moore always lights it up when there is no pressures on him.

wicket
10-19-2010, 07:47 AM
Jimmy played out of his mind last year and if he only had the vaguest semblence of a defense he wouldve won about 9 if not more and would have been in the heisman talk. ND was pretty much a 4 man team with him floyd, mccarthey and tate making all the good stuff happen and the rest of the team just pretty much being turnstiles for the opponents

edit: That doesnt mean I think he played good for the panthers, I do however think they should give him more time. Even more specific though I did not like him all that much, like Crist better even though he is a worse QB

wonderbredd24
10-19-2010, 07:51 AM
So you're saying there's a difference between not being able to beat Florida compared to... oh, I don't know, Syracuse? Navy? You're saying that's not the same?

I don't know. Jimmy had no help!!!!!! I think ND was also only allowed to play 8 people on defense one game and only 4 O-Linemen and he still barely lost. Jimmy was a winner, he just had a bad team. If you asked Jimmy to take a punch in the face. He would do it. Guy is a beast.

No help? Golden Tate, Michael Floyd, and Kyle Rudolph?

Notre Dame hasn't beaten a ranked team since 2006, so that encompasses Jimmy Clausen's entire career... not sure if that earns him the 'winner' label.

ND's defense wasn't as bad as people want to believe. Notre Dame only scored 7 points through 3 quarters against Navy at home and lost 23-21. They beat Boston College 20-16.

Looking at Jimmy Clausen, it makes Locker look better to me. He's got a substantially worse supporting cast and has beaten at least 3 ranked teams in his career that I can think of off the top of my head (USC twice and Oregon State).

Monomach
10-19-2010, 07:56 AM
Sam Bradford plays with WRs off the practice squad and still plays well.


No, Sam Bradford just gets loved for doing the same thing that got Trent Edwards hated.

wonderbredd24
10-19-2010, 07:58 AM
Sam Bradford plays with WRs off the practice squad and still plays well.
How well is he playing? 2nd in INTs and 30th in yards per attempt?

LonghornsLegend
10-19-2010, 08:44 AM
How well is he playing? 2nd in INTs and 30th in yards per attempt?

And we all know looking up his stats instead of watching him play is the better measure for how well he is playing.

wicket
10-19-2010, 08:52 AM
No help? Golden Tate, Michael Floyd, and Kyle Rudolph?

Notre Dame hasn't beaten a ranked team since 2006, so that encompasses Jimmy Clausen's entire career... not sure if that earns him the 'winner' label.

ND's defense wasn't as bad as people want to believe. Notre Dame only scored 7 points through 3 quarters against Navy at home and lost 23-21. They beat Boston College 20-16.

Looking at Jimmy Clausen, it makes Locker look better to me. He's got a substantially worse supporting cast and has beaten at least 3 ranked teams in his career that I can think of off the top of my head (USC twice and Oregon State).

I dont want to argue a bunch of the points but yes, the ND defense was as bad as people want to believe, maybe worse.

wonderbredd24
10-19-2010, 08:56 AM
And we all know looking up his stats instead of watching him play is the better measure for how well he is playing.
so his 8 INTs and his 5.8 yards per attempt average look better live?

LonghornsLegend
10-19-2010, 09:07 AM
so his 8 INTs and his 5.8 yards per attempt average look better live?

In case you forgot he's a rookie QB. Who is his best WR to throw to, or TE? Go ahead, I would love to hear the names of the studs, no, even above average players he has at those positions catching passes from him.


I guess actually winning games isn't as important as stats for a rookie QB though. Seeing as how they have won 4 games total in the past 2 seasons and already won 3 our of 6 games I'd say that has alot more to do with how well he is playing.


Never ceases to amaze me that people always bring up stats for a rookie QB playing on a terrible team, with no weapons to throw to what so ever, and then act like he's supposed to end up with 25 TD's, 7 INT's, and lead the league in YPA. You do know that typically QB's with high YPA's have been in the league a few years, and have an elite WR and/or TE that can actually catch, or make plays once the ball is thrown to them.


Bradford has made a bunch of outcast WR's look way better then what they really are.

wonderbredd24
10-19-2010, 09:15 AM
In case you forgot he's a rookie QB. Who is his best WR to throw to, or TE? Go ahead, I would love to hear the names of the studs, no, even above average players he has at those positions catching passes from him.


I guess actually winning games isn't as important as stats for a rookie QB though. Seeing as how they have won 4 games total in the past 2 seasons and already won 3 our of 6 games I'd say that has alot more to do with how well he is playing.


Never ceases to amaze me that people always bring up stats for a rookie QB playing on a terrible team, with no weapons to throw to what so ever, and then act like he's supposed to end up with 25 TD's, 7 INT's, and lead the league in YPA. You do know that typically QB's with high YPA's have been in the league a few years, and have an elite WR and/or TE that can actually catch, or make plays once the ball is thrown to them.


Bradford has made a bunch of outcast WR's look way better then what they really are.
Do I think Bradford is playing poorly? Honestly, I don't know. I just wouldn't categorize what he's doing as playing particularly well which is what I was addressing.

While his receivers are basically garbage, he does have a nice, developing offensive line and the 5th leading rusher in the league, so it's not as if he has absolutely nothing going for him.

And while it was only one game, it was against the Steelers, he was a 3rd round pick and his weapons are not much better, especially since 2 of them missed almost the whole game thanks to concussions, but Colt McCoy had 8.52 yards per attempt. 5.8 is pretty damn low.

LonghornsLegend
10-19-2010, 09:47 AM
Do I think Bradford is playing poorly? Honestly, I don't know. I just wouldn't categorize what he's doing as playing particularly well which is what I was addressing.

While his receivers are basically garbage, he does have a nice, developing offensive line and the 5th leading rusher in the league, so it's not as if he has absolutely nothing going for him.

And while it was only one game, it was against the Steelers, he was a 3rd round pick and his weapons are not much better, especially since 2 of them missed almost the whole game thanks to concussions, but Colt McCoy had 8.52 yards per attempt. 5.8 is pretty damn low.


Your right, it has been one game, and it be nice if you didn't go from one extreme to the other. After the pre-season all you talked about was how he was about to get cut, you hated the pick, he couldn't read a defense, take a snap from under center, throw an out route, and a million other conclusions you jumped to before the regular season had even got here.


Changing your tune already? Now he's played better then Sam Bradford.

wonderbredd24
10-19-2010, 10:06 AM
Your right, it has been one game, and it be nice if you didn't go from one extreme to the other. After the pre-season all you talked about was how he was about to get cut, you hated the pick, he couldn't read a defense, take a snap from under center, throw an out route, and a million other conclusions you jumped to before the regular season had even got here.


Changing your tune already? Now he's played better then Sam Bradford.
If you watched the preseason games with him, you'd understand.

I am amazed at how well he played all things considered.

And I don't think he's necessarily better than Bradford... just that Bradford's YPA is incredibly low

Bengalsrocket
10-19-2010, 10:50 AM
If you watched the preseason games with him, you'd understand.

I am amazed at how well he played all things considered.

And I don't think he's necessarily better than Bradford... just that Bradford's YPA is incredibly low

Really? If you end up crying about a rookie's YPA numbers then you know you're reaching. Sanchez is only at 6.2 (guess what? he's still a young QB developing!). Matt Ryan, Matt Cassel, Josh Freeman, Joe Flacco are all at 6.8 or less.

5.8 isn't that bad. It feels like you're just trying to brag about McCoy 8.52.

bigbluedefense
10-19-2010, 10:53 AM
Danny Freakin Amendola.

Say it with me guys. Danny Amendola.


He should win ROY just for the sole reason that his best WR is Danny Amendola.

Danny.

Amendola.


He made Mark Clayton look like he belongs in the league.


I mean come on. Seriously.

BeerBaron
10-19-2010, 11:13 AM
Amendola isn't a bad WR though. I liked him coming out in college, and I liked him when he was on the Cowboys PS....I felt like if he could get to a team where he could get work out of the slot, he'd be Welker 2.0 and he's looking like it now.

That said.....Bradford is still impressing. I give a lot of credit to the Rams for designing an offense he can succeed in.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-19-2010, 11:15 AM
Stats don't work for a rookie QB, especially one on a team as bad as the Rams. Trent Edwards was hated because he checked down a lot, but he was on a team with TO, Lee Evans, etc. and couldn't get the ball downfield. Plus, he wasn't always unpopular, he was even viewed as a bright spot for quite a while. Low YPA as a rookie really isn't a problem. He's making plays that are allowing the Rams to not only be competitive, but actually win games.
With Danny freaking Amendola, as BBD kindly pointed out.

Of course, 2-3 years down the line, if he's still at ~6 ypa, it's time to re-evaluate. But the dude's a rookie. It's okay to throw INTs and have a low YPA when you're a rookie.

bigbluedefense
10-19-2010, 11:18 AM
Stats don't work for a rookie QB, especially one on a team as bad as the Rams. Trent Edwards was hated because he checked down a lot, but he was on a team with TO, Lee Evans, etc. and couldn't get the ball downfield. Plus, he wasn't always unpopular, he was even viewed as a bright spot for quite a while. Low YPA as a rookie really isn't a problem. He's making plays that are allowing the Rams to not only be competitive, but actually win games.
With Danny freaking Amendola, as BBD kindly pointed out.

Of course, 2-3 years down the line, if he's still at ~6 ypa, it's time to re-evaluate. But the dude's a rookie. It's okay to throw INTs and have a low YPA when you're a rookie.

He was throwing it downfield when he had Clayton, and when he had Avery. The guy just has absolutely no one to throw downfield to. That's the problem.

Amendola isn't a bad WR though. I liked him coming out in college, and I liked him when he was on the Cowboys PS....I felt like if he could get to a team where he could get work out of the slot, he'd be Welker 2.0 and he's looking like it now.

That said.....Bradford is still impressing. I give a lot of credit to the Rams for designing an offense he can succeed in.

I like Danny too, but as a 3rd option in the slot, the guy who can get you 5 yards and a cloud of dust on a screen pass/quick slant/misdirection route.

Not as a #1 who will get the opposition's best CB and possibly a safety or inside/outside coverage underneath.

armageddon
10-19-2010, 11:21 AM
Bradford's poise and leadership are unreal. He is as cool as Joe Montana was. He just doesn't get rattled. You people that are hating on him don't have a clue.

keylime_5
10-19-2010, 11:23 AM
yeah, you can tell by watching Bradford that he's gonna be a good one. His ypa and ints aren't that hot, but they aren't that bad either considering he's a rookie and playing for the Rams. The Rams are competing and winning games and Bradford is a huge reason why.

Jvig43
10-19-2010, 11:23 AM
How well is he playing? 2nd in INTs and 30th in yards per attempt?

Awesome, he's still the best looking rookie QB playing in the NFL right now. But maybe the rams should of just cut him in the preseason........

bigbluedefense
10-19-2010, 11:25 AM
it doesn't matter what's actually happening in games, 5.8 y/a means he sucks. stop trying to imply that i need something other than box scores to know who's good.

Dude, you're just saying that bc you have the 2nd best QB in the league, Kyle Orton. Look at the yards.

Champion.

Ship.

wonderbredd24
10-19-2010, 11:30 AM
it doesn't matter what's actually happening in games, 5.8 y/a means he sucks. stop trying to imply that i need something other than box scores to know who's good.
Where did I say he sucks? All I said was he isn't playing as well as some people would have you believe.

Jvig43
10-19-2010, 11:31 AM
hall of fame! teh ortonzz.

ugh. but, predictably, every paper this morning: "ZOMGZ TEBOW! SHOULD HE BE STARTING!?!??!"

hahaha just imagine what they'd say if you had won.

Jvig43
10-19-2010, 11:31 AM
Where did I say he sucks? All I said was he isn't playing as well as some people would have you believe.

What rookie quarterback is playing better right now?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-19-2010, 11:34 AM
Tim Tebow has yet to throw an incompletion. He is the obvious choice at starter.

PS, know how many incompletions Bradford has? 101.

You be the judge.

wonderbredd24
10-19-2010, 11:44 AM
based solely on his box scores. regardless, it wasn't personally directed. this is a recurring forum theme.
It's 6 games worth of information in the NFL. I don't think that's an unfair sample size to determine the guy isn't a superstar yet.

wonderbredd24
10-19-2010, 12:09 PM
it's still completely irrelevant, in absence of any other information. is kyle orton really an mvp candidate?
What does one thing have to do with the other?

Saints-Tigers
10-19-2010, 12:10 PM
What rookie quarterback is playing better right now?

This is a terrible argument.

wicket
10-19-2010, 12:12 PM
What rookie quarterback is playing better right now?

max hall tbqh

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-19-2010, 12:16 PM
When the highlight of your career is a fumble, I'm not sure there's much basis for being ranked higher than Sam Bradford.

wonderbredd24
10-19-2010, 12:20 PM
if you're going to look solely at box scores, the answer should be obvious.
The MVP is the perceived value of a player to his team against other players' perceived value on their teams, which takes statistics and team success against other players statistics and team success.

The discussion of how well Bradford is playing is evaluating his play and his play alone.

There's no connection here.

wonderbredd24
10-19-2010, 12:33 PM
yes, there's no connection whatsoever between suggesting one guy is the MVP based solely on his box scores, and suggesting a player sucks, based solely on his box scores. absolutely brilliant. nice work.
again, I haven't said he sucks. Hasn't happened. You even admitted the fact I haven't, then asserted I did...

All I've said is he isn't playing as well as some have suggested.

And it's not like I can break down tape on here to show why

Brodeur
10-19-2010, 12:35 PM
it's still completely irrelevant, in absence of any other information. is kyle orton really an mvp candidate?

Can I say Kyle Orton is an MVP candidate?

scpanther22
10-19-2010, 02:43 PM
Clausen would also do better in a different offense IMO..something not so play action based.

Complex
10-19-2010, 03:26 PM
Clausen would also do better in a different offense IMO..something not so play action based.

The panthers offense playbook is the same as the one at ND, even Jimmy Clausen said it(only a little bigger). The panther OC was taught by charlie Weis so lets not use this excuse.

LonghornsLegend
10-19-2010, 03:36 PM
The panthers offense playbook is the same as the one at ND, even Jimmy Clausen said it(only a little bigger). The panther OC was taught by charlie Weis so lets not use this excuse.

Exactly, it's just an easy cop out. After the draft everyone(especially Panthers fans) were so excited because the offense was a great fit, and so were the surrounding weapons. Funny how all that changes when he struggles.

Jvig43
10-19-2010, 03:39 PM
This is a terrible argument.

I'm not arguing anything I asked a question but good job reading.

HawkEye30
10-19-2010, 03:47 PM
holy **** what is this? i thought i was in the ****** mvp thread

bigbluedefense
10-19-2010, 03:50 PM
Its gonna be quite the face palm when Carolina passes on a franchise qb in this draft bc they drafted Clausen in round 2.

That will be a lawlfest when it happens.

Thecollegedropout
10-19-2010, 04:24 PM
I think the problem here is that McCoy actually showed something against the best defense in the NFL, and Clausen has looked like ****.
You do realize that Jeff Otah has been missing for the entire season? The Browns have a very solid O-Line that can protect its QBs.

Hillis has been great this year too and has done more than Deangelo Williams. And the weapons McCoy and Clausen have are a advantage to Colt. McCoy at least has Cribbs to pass to.....

Clausen? Rosario, Gettis, Clowney and LaFell. Ooooooh big time.

Fox is smart with this move, he knows that any QB would fail with what is set up right now on the offense. He is throwing Matt Moore into the fire and will in all likelihood barring injury bring Clausen and Steve Smith back together.

BeerBaron
10-19-2010, 04:24 PM
Its gonna be quite the face palm when Carolina passes on a franchise qb in this draft bc they drafted Clausen in round 2.

That will be a lawlfest when it happens.

I argued this earlier in the thread. Throw Clausen to the wolves...see what he is made of. If he continues to fail, draft a new QB. Benching him only serves to keep him as a question mark...the next staff comes in, says "Jimmy Clausen is my QB" and then he fails...setting them back by at least another year when that year could have been spent developing a real franchise QB.

Thecollegedropout
10-19-2010, 04:27 PM
Sam Bradford plays with WRs off the practice squad and still plays well. Remember Sam Bradford played in the spread offense and had a noodle arm was suppose to be a BUST.

Jimmy Clausen was pro-ready and played in a pro-style offense, oh yeah had laser arm so lets no make excuses for him.

Colt has looked 10x better than Jimmy and he had his top WRs carted off.
Again the Rams have a line based off of high drafted players. Clausen has a line that outside of Gross(Who hasn't even been that great by all accounts) that isn't so great.

You can have big name RBs and Steve Smith(Who has missed more games than Mass/Cribbs) but it won't amount to anything if the line is garbage.

Complex
10-19-2010, 04:28 PM
You do realize that Jeff Otah has been missing for the entire season? The Browns have a very solid O-Line that can protect its QBs.

Hillis has been great this year too and has done more than Deangelo Williams. And the weapons McCoy and Clausen have are a advantage to Colt. McCoy at least has Cribbs to pass to.....

Clausen? Rosario, Gettis, Clowney and LaFell. Ooooooh big time.

Fox is smart with this move, he knows that any QB would fail with what is set up right now on the offense. He is throwing Matt Moore into the fire and will in all likelihood barring injury bring Clausen and Steve Smith back together.

Cribbs left the game early and so did the guy with the long name who eas their #1 or 2 WR any more excuses?

LonghornsLegend
10-19-2010, 04:29 PM
So the Browns have a better supporting cast, and situation, then the Panthers. Lol. What a turn of evens we've seen in only one month.

Thecollegedropout
10-19-2010, 04:30 PM
No help? Golden Tate, Michael Floyd, and Kyle Rudolph?

Notre Dame hasn't beaten a ranked team since 2006, so that encompasses Jimmy Clausen's entire career... not sure if that earns him the 'winner' label.

ND's defense wasn't as bad as people want to believe. Notre Dame only scored 7 points through 3 quarters against Navy at home and lost 23-21. They beat Boston College 20-16.

Looking at Jimmy Clausen, it makes Locker look better to me. He's got a substantially worse supporting cast and has beaten at least 3 ranked teams in his career that I can think of off the top of my head (USC twice and Oregon State).
Matt Leinart played in a National Title game....
Jason White won a heisman trophy.
Jay Cutler's highest winning season at Vandy despite having players like an Earl Bennett was 5?

Its not Clausen's fault Weis was an inept head coach and sported a garbage defense throughout his tenure there. Clausen didn't have an agile USC squad or a SEC defense to go behind.

Thecollegedropout
10-19-2010, 04:31 PM
So the Browns have a better supporting cast, and situation, then the Panthers. Lol. What a turn of evens we've seen in only one month.
Better O-Line absolutely and that is what matters. Also losing Steve Smith for a few games does an effect likewise with no Otah fro the entire year(So far)

Thecollegedropout
10-19-2010, 04:35 PM
completely irrelevant. but nice try.
So you're saying that the Rams line isn't built well because of the drafting of Saffold or Smith?

Cmon I am a Jets fan and our 2 best lineman were drafted together in round 1 in D'Brick and Mangold....a top 5 pick on a LT and a 1st round pick on a C. Jets had 5 1st rounders on the line last season and to no surprise it held its own in many games.

Thecollegedropout
10-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Cribbs left the game early and so did the guy with the long name who eas their #1 or 2 WR any more excuses?
I am not going to say McCoy didn't have a good game but the Browns were playing catchup throughout the entire game with a injured RB in Hillis which meant McCoy had the luxury of throwing the ball for more downs.

Panthers try and institute the run attack first and foremost. Always have, always will.

Thecollegedropout
10-19-2010, 04:49 PM
i'm saying that the draft position of a player is completely irrelevant, when you're talking about how good that player is.

unless, of course, you'd like to argue that the late 90's, early 00's broncos had one of the worst o-lines in the history of football.
No I mean that the Rams put alot of their high selections and investment into their O-Line and thus far have been rewarded for doing so(Granted they really haven't battled a top defense like Cleveland's has but still good).

Bills haven't drafted a tackle in round 1 since Mike Williams....and we know what the deal is with their line. Its been ass for about a decade. They could get lucky like with Peters yes but the chances of that are very tough. Not to say all 1st round lineman are guaranteed studs, they're not(Look at Williams as a prime example) but like with any position drafted, you stand a better shot at getting premier talent at a spot with the higher pick.

scpanther22
10-19-2010, 07:35 PM
The panthers offense playbook is the same as the one at ND, even Jimmy Clausen said it(only a little bigger). The panther OC was taught by charlie Weis so lets not use this excuse.

The terminology is about the same around 85%.

The panthers run a offense based on a lot of play action something Clausen is not the best at.So its no excuse thats fact.

scpanther22
10-19-2010, 07:44 PM
Exactly, it's just an easy cop out. After the draft everyone(especially Panthers fans) were so excited because the offense was a great fit, and so were the surrounding weapons. Funny how all that changes when he struggles.

Never changed for me.

Clausen strength is his accuracy.If I am not mistake Weis had a lot of West coast offense in his playbook?.Something the panthers dont do.

They do a more playaction and The Oline has really regressed.

BlindSite
10-20-2010, 02:46 AM
Wow, the guys a bust after three games... Jesus you people make some laughable arguments sometimes.

Saints-Tigers
10-20-2010, 03:27 AM
I find it hard to evaluate rookie QBs to be honest. What they do as a rookie really means nothing, because the "best" rookie years you get for a QB is like Matt Ryan, where he's not totally incompetent.

They have to take huge leaps no matter where they are to be a better than average starter at the position. It's nice to see GROWTH early on, but meh, I like to see what kind of leap they make late into the season, and into their second year, because the first year, the most you can hope for is something like Bradford is doing, just taking what the D gives, and keeping his team on teh field enough for his playmakers to make plays.

Rarely do you get a very young QB come out and dominate, and a QBs first season(as a rookie really) doesn't give a strong indication of the future. If they've been sitting a few years, and then come in, you really like to see some true playmaking though.

I don't see a big correlation to a guys first year if he starts as a rookie, to how he'll fair down the road, it seems like a hard thing to project.

That said, I expected more of Clausen thus far.

JPF
10-20-2010, 07:13 AM
Personally, I don't think you can evaluate Clausen based on this season even if he had started the rest of the year. Our owner went cheap preparing for a possible lockout. He purged a good number of veterans from the payroll and didn't really try to sign anyone to replace them. Their biggest off-season signings were Ed Johnson and Marcus Hudson.

He let a starting RG walk (Keydrick Vincent) who was borderline anyway but an upgrade over Mackenzy Bernadeau who replaced him. Jeff Otah being out has further worsened the right side of the line. He's being replaced by Geoff Schwartz, who isn't horrible but just doesn't hold up against speed rushers (maybe if he moved inside to RG when Otah comes back he'll be more effective). Jordan Gross has been shaky but is starting to shake the rust off while Travelle Wharton and Ryan Kalil are playing decently.

At receiver it's pretty much the same thing except an even younger group trying to get the job done. Steve Smith and Dwayne Jarrett were the most experienced receivers on the roster entering the season. Jarrett has since been released (his career stats- 3 starts, 2 DUIs, 1 TD), and Smith got hurt in the 4th game of the year. That left 3 rookie WR's on the roster. Brandon LaFell hasn't shown anything, he's got 5 catches and at least 3 drops. David Gettis has shown more consistency catching the ball but he's only averaging 2.7 yards after the catch. Armanti Edwards is a project player. They brought in David Clowney and Devin Thomas. We'll see if they add anything to the team.

Our TE's are kind of a forgotten piece, at least by our OC. They continue to start Jeff King but he's not much of a receiving threat (with the right side of the line being so bad the extra blocking is needed), Dante Rosario is something of a receiving threat (he's at least a threat to get some yards after catch) but he's hardly ever in the game, and Gary Barnidge they misuse (he's the worst blocker by far of the three yet they continue to put him in to block- again the extra blocking is needed but putting in someone whose not a good blocker to do it doesn't make much sense).

DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart are routinely facing 8 and 9 men in the box, and our line just can't get a push. Williams is averaging 4.7 ypc this year, but is only getting about 13 carries a game because of play-calling that has left most Panther fans scratching their heads (such as passing the ball 3 times in a row on the goal line).

As for the offensive coordinator, he seems to lack the imagination and creativity to move people around to create different looks and possible mismatches. And I don't say that based just on this year, I'm referring to his entire time in Carolina.

In other words, Clausen may or may not be the quarterback of the future for this team, but given the situation around him I don't think you can give a fair overall evaluation of him this year. I don't say that to take up for him, and there have been things I've seen from him I don't like (locking onto receivers, not giving a play time to develop when he does have time before checking it down, etc.), but the offense as a whole is a mess.

armageddon
10-20-2010, 02:46 PM
Would Carolina take a QB in the next draft if they were drafting in the top 3 ?

TACKLE
10-20-2010, 02:48 PM
Would Carolina take a QB in the next draft if they were drafting in the top 3 ?

I don't see how they can't.

LonghornsLegend
10-20-2010, 03:04 PM
Wow, the guys a bust after three games... Jesus you people make some laughable arguments sometimes.

Actually unless I missed the post your the first person to even toss around the word bust. But if you want to pass up one of the big 3 potential franchise QB's for the hope that Clausen eventually gets it together then by all means. I'm sure the rest of the NFC South would love that.

keylime_5
10-20-2010, 03:06 PM
Would Carolina take a QB in the next draft if they were drafting in the top 3 ?

if they have a new coach/GM then that regime won't be married to Clausen, and chances are they would be in the group that didn't like Clausen that much coming out of college (considering how far he fell in the draft) - so I would say it's very possible.

JPF
10-20-2010, 03:47 PM
From all accounts of the Charlotte media that I've read, the GM (Marty Hurney) appears to be safe. So a new coach-yes, a new GM-not likely.

That would possibly leave the franchise torn on the "do we draft a QB" issue.

Mr.Regular
10-20-2010, 03:53 PM
I really hope Carolina sticks with Clausen. I was a HUGE fan of his last year.
Problem is if they have a top 5 pick or so, and a totally new regime, chances are they'd look at a QB.

We know Clausen wasn't liked by many considering his monstrous free fall on draft day, and new regimes usually=new QB's.

It'll be interesting to see. Who else would they target? Dareus? Green? Im not sure....QB might end up making sense.

LonghornsLegend
10-20-2010, 05:27 PM
I really hope Carolina sticks with Clausen. I was a HUGE fan of his last year.
Problem is if they have a top 5 pick or so, and a totally new regime, chances are they'd look at a QB.

We know Clausen wasn't liked by many considering his monstrous free fall on draft day, and new regimes usually=new QB's.

It'll be interesting to see. Who else would they target? Dareus? Green? Im not sure....QB might end up making sense.



They can still draft Andrew Luck or Jake Locker and roll with Clausen, as we all know QB's can be very valuable commodities if they show some talent. If Clausen is as good as everyone says/though/thinks then he will still more then likely get to start next year ahead of the rookie QB and give them a chance to bring the new guy along slowly.


Still though it makes no sense to me to not keep him out there and get an idea of what you have because if he did start to reel together some wins and show a spark of a franchise signal caller that top 3 pick could very well be spent on talent to improve the team around him instead.


But I guess since Carolina is the worst place to play ever and they would make any QB look terrible, and STL and Cleveland are 10x better then it doesn't matter.

SchizophrenicBatman
10-20-2010, 05:30 PM
Wow, the guys a bust after three games... Jesus you people make some laughable arguments sometimes.

How's that Alex Smith thing working out for you? Ready to give him another 6 years to destroy that franchise?

Addict
10-20-2010, 05:30 PM
I really don't understand why we are already calling him a bust this fast. I mean, come on guys, he hasn't even completed his first season and it's not like the Panthers are that great an offense.

SchizophrenicBatman
10-20-2010, 05:33 PM
I argued this earlier in the thread. Throw Clausen to the wolves...see what he is made of. If he continues to fail, draft a new QB. Benching him only serves to keep him as a question mark...the next staff comes in, says "Jimmy Clausen is my QB" and then he fails...setting them back by at least another year when that year could have been spent developing a real franchise QB.

Here's the problem with this logic: John Fox doesnt give a F about the Panthers future. In fact, if he's coaching an NFC team next year he probably wants it to be as screwed up as possible

Also, I can guarantee we hire some ball-less patsy coach next year. No chance Marty Hurney's chosen QB doesn't get another shot. If no real coach will commit to him, he's going to bring in Charlie Weis

yourfavestoner
10-20-2010, 06:38 PM
I find it hard to evaluate rookie QBs to be honest. What they do as a rookie really means nothing, because the "best" rookie years you get for a QB is like Matt Ryan, where he's not totally incompetent.

They have to take huge leaps no matter where they are to be a better than average starter at the position. It's nice to see GROWTH early on, but meh, I like to see what kind of leap they make late into the season, and into their second year, because the first year, the most you can hope for is something like Bradford is doing, just taking what the D gives, and keeping his team on teh field enough for his playmakers to make plays.

Rarely do you get a very young QB come out and dominate, and a QBs first season(as a rookie really) doesn't give a strong indication of the future. If they've been sitting a few years, and then come in, you really like to see some true playmaking though.

I don't see a big correlation to a guys first year if he starts as a rookie, to how he'll fair down the road, it seems like a hard thing to project.

That said, I expected more of Clausen thus far.

A post I made in the Stafford vs Bradford thread:

Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Flacco have set the bar for rookies so unrealistically high now that it's hard for people to figure out what to look for in a rookie quarterback.

Expecting anything other than bad QB play from play to play (let alone game to game) is just downright unrealistic. They're going to be bad, they're going to be inconsistent, they will not string drives together, they will turn the ball over, they will get sacked. For the most part, they have no idea what the **** they're doing out there. You're looking far more for flashes of talent to show through, and observe how they handle the adversity of being really unsuccessful.

And this in my "Truths" thread:

I completely agree with this. Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Flacco have created unrealistic expectations for rookie quarterbacks in recent years. We've gotta temper the expectations back down.

Like you said, you're looking for flashes of potential. You cannot expect them to be consistent from game to game, series to series, or even from play to play. Also, the biggest thing you're looking at is how he's carrying himself. How is he dealing with being the worst player on the field? Is he letting go of his mistakes and focusing on the next throw?

You're not really looking for him to LEAD (but that doesn't hurt), but you need to make sure he's still exhibiting confidence in himself. If you get that out of your rookie quarterback, plus some flashes and key drives/moments mixed in there, you've quite possibly got yourself a keeper. The key is the development that occurs in years two and three.

That's a huge reason why I liked Josh Freeman so much coming into this season. Was the overall body of work good? No. He was terrible. But you definitely saw flashes of potential greatness with him last year.

BeerBaron
10-20-2010, 06:48 PM
Here's the problem with this logic: John Fox doesnt give a F about the Panthers future. In fact, if he's coaching an NFC team next year he probably wants it to be as screwed up as possible

Also, I can guarantee we hire some ball-less patsy coach next year. No chance Marty Hurney's chosen QB doesn't get another shot. If no real coach will commit to him, he's going to bring in Charlie Weis

See, that's when ownership/management needs to step in and make something happen. If Fox doesn't like it, let him resign. It's a big reason why I don't JA traded for any offensive line talent or anything like that....Ownership might be looking to go a different direction, and they don't want him mortgaging a future he might not be there for.

SchizophrenicBatman
10-20-2010, 07:57 PM
A post I made in the Stafford vs Bradford thread:


That's a huge reason why I liked Josh Freeman so much coming into this season. Was the overall body of work good? No. He was terrible. But you definitely saw flashes of potential greatness with him last year.

This is the problem with Clausen, though. He hasn't shown any potential. No flashes. His one good play was a blown coverage where he didnt even have to make a good throw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UElsAl_aqKA). But at least he stepped up in the pocket and found his open receiver on that play

I haven't seen one other play that suggests Clausen could be a good or even above average NFL QB. To be fair, I haven't seen enough to suggest he couldn't be either, because he doesn't even try. Honestly, throwing interceptions as a rookie isn't bad for the most part. I remember the game Freeman threw 5 picks against the Panthers last year. He was actually moving the ball, throwing down field and finding out what windows he could and could not throw into. The Bucs ended up losing because pretty much every time he got the ball into the red zone he gave it up, but he threw for over 300 yards and you could see potential there. Extremely raw potential that may or may not ever develop, but at least you saw something.

People always bring up Peyton throwing 28 interceptions his rookie year like he sucked besides that. No, he was an exceptionally advanced rookie having to adjust to a league well above his and his team's current ability where he was basically their entire offense (see: Bradford, Sam...even though honestly the Rams should have more of a running game with S-Jax, that's not how their coaching staff has played it). Clausen has only thrown 3 interceptions because he doesn't take risks. He doesn't try to play quarterback at an NFL level. He just looks for his underneath receiver (a la David Carr) or breaks the pocket (unnecessarily) so he can scramble and only have to look at one side of the field.

bucfan12
10-20-2010, 08:16 PM
I never liked Jimmy Clausen coming out specifically because he isn't really a leader. I read somewhere during the draft process when coaches were breaking down film with him, he "threw his WRs under the bus" on a few of his INTs. That was a huge flag right there because QBs, even when it isn't there fault, always take the blame on there shoulder.

He never seemed like he was a leader and really does seem like a "cocky douchebag." His attitude reminds me of Ryan Leaf, that is why he fell. Also, he wasn't really that good with all that talent around him. He broke out in his JR year, but looked lost and confused his freshman and sophomore years, when he was deemed a top notch QB prospect.

From watching him this year, he looks very average. His arm strength is above average at the NFL level, but he just doesn't have the look of a franchise QB. He hasn't shown any flashes of making NFL like throws and just looks to dump the ball off. Targets one side of the field and doesn't see the field very well.

If I am Carolina, I would just let him play out the rest of the year. Maybe he improves and maybe they find out if they have something in him, but honestly, I never liked him coming out and he just doesn't have the attitude to be a great QB.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-20-2010, 08:24 PM
That's a huge reason why I liked Josh Freeman so much coming into this season. Was the overall body of work good? No. He was terrible. But you definitely saw flashes of potential greatness with him last year.

That's why I like Stafford so much. You watch sometimes and you're like, what the **** is he thinking? But since that Browns game I've been sold. It wasn't his numbers in that game, it was the way he led his team back, and then had the guts to go out there with a separated shoulder and throw the game winning TD. If he can get and stay healthy, he'll be great.

Miaoww
10-21-2010, 06:40 AM
This is the problem with Clausen, though. He hasn't shown any potential. No flashes. His one good play was a blown coverage where he didnt even have to make a good throw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UElsAl_aqKA). But at least he stepped up in the pocket and found his open receiver on that play

I haven't seen one other play that suggests Clausen could be a good or even above average NFL QB. To be fair, I haven't seen enough to suggest he couldn't be either, because he doesn't even try. Honestly, throwing interceptions as a rookie isn't bad for the most part. I remember the game Freeman threw 5 picks against the Panthers last year. He was actually moving the ball, throwing down field and finding out what windows he could and could not throw into. The Bucs ended up losing because pretty much every time he got the ball into the red zone he gave it up, but he threw for over 300 yards and you could see potential there. Extremely raw potential that may or may not ever develop, but at least you saw something.

People always bring up Peyton throwing 28 interceptions his rookie year like he sucked besides that. No, he was an exceptionally advanced rookie having to adjust to a league well above his and his team's current ability where he was basically their entire offense (see: Bradford, Sam...even though honestly the Rams should have more of a running game with S-Jax, that's not how their coaching staff has played it). Clausen has only thrown 3 interceptions because he doesn't take risks. He doesn't try to play quarterback at an NFL level. He just looks for his underneath receiver (a la David Carr) or breaks the pocket (unnecessarily) so he can scramble and only have to look at one side of the field.

That's because he's playing it safe. With the way the D is playing he knows it'd be catastrophic for the offence to turn the ball over; limit the turnovers and the team is always in the game (unless they let Forte gash them for a billion yards on cutbacks of course). He's also preserving his life - he has absolutely no time to throw and nobody to throw to. His best receiver this year has been Gettis - a 6th round rookie. I think that just about says it all.

As he grows more comfortable with his supporting staff (what little there is) and the speed of the NFL I'm sure he'd start taking more chances. As it is we won't know because Fox has put back in the guy that has no future in Charlotte.

As for the high pick we're going to have this year. I'd hope they spend it on a DT, a CB, a WR or an OT.

SchizophrenicBatman
10-25-2010, 02:11 AM
lol are you serious dude?

he played 3 games and lost all three because there was zero offense. the carolina offense scored 28 points combined in the 3 games he started. the defense is playing ok, not great. he is not playing for the 2000 Ravens (or even the 2008 Ravens) and in any case, the season is already in the tank. he should've been learning how to play QB in the NFL, not trying to avoid turning the ball over so we could attempt to win a punt off.

i hope they put clausen back in too, but not because I think it would be good for him. with the way the offense is currently constructed, it's simply not a good environment for someone who doesn't know what they're doing and learning on the fly. starting a rookie QB or a rookie WR(s) is already a bad situation. doing both is insane and not really productive for anyone involved.

i hope they put clausen back in because his play is consistent. consistently not good enough to win in today's NFL. i am tirelessly ill of going 7-9 under john fox. i don't think moore is capable of that with the hole we're in, but his poor man's jake delhomme routine is enough to pull off enough wins to ruin the pick. now that we've got a W and 0-16 is off the table, I'd put clausen back in and see if he can show anything. if not, he's back up material next year. if he turns into drew brees, whatever. as it stands, moore may actually be preserving clausen's future, since if he wins 5 or 6 games, there won't be any chance to bring in another "franchise" QB (and no, I don't want another reject that falls like jimmy). granted, the new coach will most likely bring in a veteran FA no matter what...unless he's charlie weis

the last few years have convinced me to never use a top 5 pick on anything but what you consider the 3 most important positions in the league are. in my opinion the top 2 are clear cut: QB and DE. After that, you throw in LT and it gets a bit blurry...CB? DT? whatever, point is the 49ers and Panthers have the two best young LBs in the league. what has it got them? 2 wins total (and one had to happen).

you can draft all the darrius heyward beys and michael crabtrees you want, it doesnt matter unless you got someone to throw to them. all this "safe" pick stuff is BS imo (Aaron Curry LOL). just take the guy at the most important position that you feel best about. if you hit, you're set. if you miss, whatever. you have just as good a shot to miss elsewhere. ****, sometimes even if you hit with one of the lesser positions, you're not really that much better off (Calvin Johnson, Vernon Davis)

i also don't really believe in picking for need. if you're bad enough to pick top five, you need help everywhere.

PoopSandwich
10-25-2010, 02:26 AM
That's why I like Stafford so much. You watch sometimes and you're like, what the **** is he thinking? But since that Browns game I've been sold. It wasn't his numbers in that game, it was the way he led his team back, and then had the guts to go out there with a separated shoulder and throw the game winning TD. If he can get and stay healthy, he'll be great.

Man that game sucked balls