You've waited long enough... 3 rounder with no trades. [Archive]

View Full Version : You've waited long enough... 3 rounder with no trades.

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 12:44 PM

I said it before I only do 2 mocks a year.
The first one was released Feb 18th and now with 39
days to go to the real draft....now is the best time for me
to unveil my 2nd edition.
The site this was done at doesn't allow for trades...so I was limited
in what I wanted to do....however I ended up giving teams players
around where I think they'll end up picking.
Remember mocks aren't compiled for other people to say 'put such and such here instead of player X" This mock is my opinion of who would go
where...don't think that it could happen ? Fine, but give an explanation
(a legit one) as to why it couldn't happen.

http://www.mymockdraft.com/3834/Review.aspx

I'm in the NFLDC mock competition ....and this is not my submission.
I have a feeling there will be at least 2 major shake ups before the draft gets here...and then for the first time ever, I'll have to update my mock a 2nd time. I'll submit that. But there's been a real lack of quality mocks in here and a bunch of bland ones that mimic Scott's.

bigmac076

03-19-2007, 12:48 PM

its aight.

Acreboy

03-19-2007, 12:52 PM

Round 1) A+++

Round 2) C
We signed Brian Simmons and he will anchor our ILB position. Give us Buster Davis WR or Ben Partick TE

Round 3) C
We are stacked at S so give us Tim Duckworth G we lost Montrae Holland to Denver.

Shiver

03-19-2007, 12:54 PM

1 & 3 are great. I don't like Moses ahead of Spencer or Johnson in the 2nd, though.

Jughead10

03-19-2007, 12:58 PM

You had me loving that draft for the Giants until they picked Michael Bush in the third. That makes zero sense with Jacbos and Droughns on the team.

cordscords

03-19-2007, 01:03 PM

Love the first 2 Packer picks. I'd prefer Weddle over Higgins though.

bills_red

03-19-2007, 01:04 PM

Bills have 93

1st- Okay
2nd- Okasy rather have D.Harris
3rd- Hate the pick we signed L.Walker for 5 mill a year so he better start

No RB on the 1st day will make me a bit upset

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 01:05 PM

DaBears9654

03-19-2007, 01:09 PM

I'm a newbie saying that I am pretty sure the Bears will go o-line (getting pretty old, including a left guard contemplating retirement) in round 1. Maybe Justin Blaylock from Texas.

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 01:09 PM

You had me loving that draft for the Giants until they picked Michael Bush in the third. That makes zero sense with Jacbos and Droughns on the team.
To me Jacobs and Droughns are to much alike...both big power backs.
The Giants have been fairly effective having the speed back compliment the power back. Was done with Tiki and Dayne, then Jacobs...now without the lightning they just have 2 doeses of thunder. If Bush can
run and show that he can be 100% by opening day...I really think
that the Giants would love to have him. If he is 100% healthy he's
probably a mid 2nd RB.

luckyjackaubrey

03-19-2007, 01:12 PM

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 01:15 PM

I'm a newbie saying that I am pretty sure the Bears will go o-line (getting pretty old, including a left guard contemplating retirement) in round 1. Maybe Justin Blaylock from Texas.
I'm a huge proponent of taking talent over need.
I did give them a mauler type of guard in the 3rd with Duckworth.
Blaylock is an option ...as would Grubbs be if he fell...but I took their first rounder as if the Bears were choosing between Bowe and Blaylock with who would be available
later (Manny Rameriez or Duckworth versus the WR talent later Allison and
maybe a Jason Hill) and when done that way ...the choice is almost obvious.

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 01:21 PM

You need to make a couple of changes due to trades. Ne has given rd 2 to mia. Chic swaps 2nds w/ jets ( the early pick).

You must be a Patriot hater. I don't think you will see them take a wr after all those additions (welker, stallworth, washington) and if they did it would be Bowe not Ginn. I haven't seen Everett on anyone's 1st three rounds let alone in the top 32. Pat's won't reach - they subscribe to pba or trade down.
I have no control over who picks in what spot.

And no, I actually like the Patriots...however Wes Welker is a slot guy.
Washington and Stallworth are X and Y guys Ted Ginn Jr. would be the BPA in this situation and Billichek is losing his PR / KR in Troy Brown if Troy does in fact retire. I think Chad Jackson is in the doghouse and might miss a portion of the season. The Pats addressed their "needs" via F/A and I agree that they're the most likely team to trade these picks...however, like I stated earlier. I had no control over trades I wanted to make.
Ginn Jr. would give the Patriots the dymention in special teams that was a staple of their winning ways in 2000 and 2001.

as for Everett... Bruschi, Seau & Vrabel are both near retirement and Banta-Cain was allowed to walk. A.Thomas is an upgrade but they need more LB's with talent to be able to step up and in when the starters are tired....and for the future.
Earl Everett to me is exactly the kind of LB Billachek loves, instinctive...physical, smart and quick.

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 01:28 PM

Love the first 2 Packer picks. I'd prefer Weddle over Higgins though.
Thought about this one for quite a while..I just felt that Weddle isn't a great S prospect and Higgins' speed makes him more valuable there.
I don't think Charles Woodson returning punts at 32 is a good idea.
They brought in K-Rob to handle retun duties...and now that he's done for the year they really should address it.
Still going offense all 3 days has me skeptical of my own draft.

princefielder28

03-19-2007, 01:30 PM

Green Bay's pick are solid; 3rd round is the most questionable but not bad

Joeyjr09

03-19-2007, 01:41 PM

Jughead10

03-19-2007, 01:41 PM

Joeyjr09

03-19-2007, 01:48 PM

To me Jacobs and Droughns are to much alike...both big power backs.
The Giants have been fairly effective having the speed back compliment the power back. Was done with Tiki and Dayne, then Jacobs...now without the lightning they just have 2 doeses of thunder.

And you think Bush is going to be a speed back? Do you even watch any of these prospects or any college football for that matter? Bish is 6'1 and 243 pounds. He's like an exact clone of Brandon Jacobs. Bush is known as a power back that can move a pile. He only runs a 4.5 40 so hes not a great speed back and hes not shifty. He doesn't catch the ball well out of the backfield. He is pretty much the exact same type of player as Jacobs and Droughns. Lorenzo Booker and Chris Henry are speed backs. Michael Bush is a power back. Dude, you should stop talking. All you do is put your foot into your mouth with these things as it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.

Finlayson56

03-19-2007, 01:55 PM

I love the cowboys mock

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 01:55 PM

Awful Dolphins draft. You have us taking 2 CBs in the 1st two rounds? You do realize we already have Will Allen, Travis Daniels, and Andre Goodman on the roster and that the team is considering moving Jason Allen to CB. We need a shut down CB, not two middling ones. We have the Pats 2nd round pick.

Here is how it should go and why.

In round one, we would go Alan Branch. He is the best prospect left on the board when we pick. He can play NT and DE in the 3-4 and DT in the 4-3. He is a great fit for us. Plus we lost Kevin Carter, David Bowens, Jeff Zgonina, and Big Daddy Wilkinson this offseason. Keith Traylor is also 38 and on the way out. We need to bring in youth there so Branch is the pick.

In round 2. I love Fred Bennett but he is a thrid round talent at this point. Plus he wouldn't really but much of an upgrade over anyone we currently have there. HE would just be depth. We already are deep at CB, we are just lacking a sure fire top end shut down CB. There are none in this draft so we probably won't be taking a CB in the 1st two rounds. 3rd and later makes sense if the coaching staff feels the guys have alot of potential. We lost Wes Welker and missed out on both Stallworth and Washington in FA. We need another WR to eventually take over for Booker and play next to Chambers. We would not be passing on Sidney Rice at that spot in favor of a CB.

BTW...You reasoning for the Bennett pick was that Will Allen can't play forever. Hes only 28. He can't play forever but he can play for at least the next 6-7 years. At least do some reseach before giving us bad picks.

We have the Pats 2nd rounder so take Tanard Jackson out of that spot. IF we don't get Quinn, we will be taking a QB pretty high in this draft. We have already had meetings with Drew Stanton and he fits our offense well. We'd be taking him with our 2nd, 2nd rounder.

Doug Free might be the only solid pick you made for us and even then we need a LT earlier. Since the draft doesn't fall that way I guess Free will do.

Overall horrible Dolphins draft. You should no awareness of their needs and have no sense of value for their picks. Plus you didnt even have their draft order right. You said you make two mocks per year and you talk like your great at it. Maybe we would be better off if you didn't make any mocks at all because this is downright awful.
Feel better ? I knew Dolphin fans would be happy ;) with who I gave them. "We're lacking a surefire shutdown corner. There is no shutdown corner in this draft"..you've obviously never seen Leon Hall play. Hall is
the premier CB prospect in this draft and a monumental leap forward in talent from Allen (who is 28...which in CB terms means the closer to the end of his career than the start) Plus you make it sound as though W.A is some elite tier'd corner...he isn't. Your CB's combined for 2 INT's for the season. To say they're adequate is a gross overstatement of their value.
They may not go CB twice in a row...and I although I agree that Tanard Jackson is probably a 3rd round talent on paper, the way my draft works out the Dolphins couldn't afford to try and add talent later on.
The CB's on your team are below average, get over it.
Alan Branch's stock has been tumbling since the end of the season and
with rumors circulating about him being out of shape and a pansy...I have trouble believing he's a top 10 talent at this point.

Joeyjr09

03-19-2007, 02:12 PM

Feel better ? I knew Dolphin fans would be happy ;) with who I gave them. "We're lacking a surefire shutdown corner. There is no shutdown corner in this draft"..you've obviously never seen Leon Hall play.

Do you know what you are talking about? Leon Hall a shut down CB? That's funny. There are no shut down CBs in this draft. Ask any NFL personal, ask any draft expert, you can even ask anyone on these boards. Hall is not a shut down CB. And yes I saw Hall play in college. I saw him give up so many catches that it had scouts questioning his speed. Plus he completely disappeared against big time competition like Ohio State and their WRs.

Hall is
the premier CB prospect in this draft and a monumental leap forward in talent from Allen (who is 28...which in CB terms means the closer to the end of his career than the start)

Did you read the rest of my post. We also have Andre Goodman who was our number 1 CB last season ahead of Will Allen. IF you saw Goodman play then you'd know that. Travis Daniels is also only 23 years old with a year of starting experience at tons of upside. He was hurt last season. Plus last year's 1st rounder Jason Allen is being talked about in a move to CB. If you really think being 28 means you are close the end of your career then you need to shut up and leave. At 28, you are just entering your prime. 27 is usually the start of the prime of a players career and we have Allen sign for 3 more years. Thats until age 30. He should still be productive until then. He will never be great but he is solid depth.

Plus you make it sound as though W.A is some elite tier'd corner...he isn't. Your CB's combined for 2 INT's for the season. To say they're adequate is a gross overstatement of their value.

We had the number 4 ranked defense in the NFL with those CBs last season. We are getting Travis Daniels back to 100 percent. Possibly moving Jason Allen to CB and giving Andre Goodman and Will Allen another year in a very complex system. Yes we could upgrade CB but Leon Hall is a reach, especially for a team that has tons of others needs and with better value on the board.

They may not go CB twice in a row...and I although I agree that Tanard Jackson is probably a 3rd round talent on paper, the way my draft works out the Dolphins couldn't afford to try and add talent later on.

So you have us taking Leon Hall, Fred Bennett and Tanard Jackson? That's 3 CBs in the 1st two rounds. You gave Tanard Jackson to the Pats but that pick belongs to us. Not the Pats.

The CB's on your team are below average, get over it.
Alan Branch's stock has been tumbling since the end of the season and
with rumors circulating about him being out of shape and a pansy...I have trouble believing he's a top 10 talent at this point.

You can believe our CB are below average. I wouldn't put them any worse then solid. They aren't gonna make alot of big plays but they didn't cost us any games. However I agree they are not good. Bottom line is that we were the number 4 ranked defense with those CBs so they are not an issue. They can be upgraded but we have more important needs before we take a CB. Branch is a bigger need and a better prospect. IF you really think his stock has been tumbling since the end of the season then you have been living under a rock since the end of the season. His stock has been soaring and he might not even drop to the Dolphins. He has had great workouts and is by far the best DT in the draft.

You tell me to get over it my CBs being average. Maybe you should get over yourself and realize your mock sucks for the Phins. You look even worse trying to defend those picks when every Dolphins fan one here will tell you they suck.

T-RICH49

03-19-2007, 02:19 PM

that KC draft makes me very happy

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 02:27 PM

You tell me to get over it my CBs being average. Maybe you should get over yourself and realize your mock sucks for the Phins. You look even worse trying to defend those picks when every Dolphins fan one here will tell you they suck.
hahahaha...you're 1 of a billion internet bullies who lack people skills.
Your constant double talk to defend your ignorance is mind boggling.
Leon Hall is a shut down corner. Period.
When the Phins make him their 1st round pick....you can come back on
here and appologize. And when Alan Branch gets pick no higher than 15th you can label me your mockdraft guru superior.

I said it to lead , I didn't make this mock to appease fans or make you happy. You vastly overrate your own team (homer) and then tell me you had the #4 defense...and we won't take a CB ...but an out of shape DT who plays light is a good pick is not only stupid , but riddiculous .
You should be mocked for such nonsense.

Im_a_Romosexual

03-19-2007, 02:29 PM

Holy crap Meachem in the second?!? I think we would pick Tank Tyler over him because NT is a greater need than a WR, but hes Amazing value so we may pick him anyway in that situation

DWhitner20

03-19-2007, 02:56 PM

You could have done much better. I mean, you didn't even address RB for the Bills... come on now. And we have the Ravens 3rd round pick.

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 03:15 PM

Let's face it .. Peterson and Lynch are the only legit top 2 round talents at RB. Pittman is a stretch in the 2nd though I put him there and there could be as many as 4 teams at that point looking for a guy who could start. Chris Henry would still be available and I told you before...I can't change who picks where. Nor could I trade.

go_ravens94

03-19-2007, 03:16 PM

We would take McCauley in R1, but Grubbs is okay for the Ravens.

We'd take Josh Wilson in R2.

We don't have a 3rd Rounder.

eaglesalltheway

03-19-2007, 03:22 PM

I don't know if we Eagles fans would cheer it, but I don't think we would boo the first pick for us either. We need a lot of help at the LB spot as well as SS, but since Griffin is gone and there is no SS worth this pick, we would most likely go LB, and since Poz and Willis are gone, Timmons would probably be our pick. I have been a strong supprter of Leonard to the Eagles for a long time and though I did hear that the Eagles were targetting him, I find it unlikely we draft him now that we re-signed Correll Buckhalter. In the second we would probably pick our need at Safety here with either Weddle or Wendling. We will no longer draft a WR at all in this draft because we just signed Kevin Curtis, so in round three we may go MLB with Anthony Waters or DE, or maybe even TE now.

draftguru151

03-19-2007, 03:32 PM

The first round pick is good but we don't need 2/3 DBs. One a whole there are a lot of problems. Everett in the first? Wright? Meachem at 53? Juwan Simpson and Burgess on the first day? Very eh mock to say the least.

Caddy

03-19-2007, 03:56 PM

1) Joe Thomas maybe?
2a) We don't need a guard
2b) CJ or nothing
3) Crowder is a great pick there

Joeyjr09

03-19-2007, 03:59 PM

I said it to lead , I didn't make this mock to appease fans or make you happy. You vastly overrate your own team (homer) and then tell me you had the #4 defense...and we won't take a CB ...but an out of shape DT who plays light is a good pick is not only stupid , but riddiculous .
You should be mocked for such nonsense.

If you didnt make a mock to appease fans then why even make a mock, build it up as one of the two you do every year and then post it on a fan based message board? Sounds to me like you wanted fan input or you wouldn't be putting it on a fan based message board. And if you are going to put it on a fan based message board then you should be ready to recieve fan based responses to teams that they know and love and follow much more then you do.

If you even bother to listen to anything I said then maybe you'd have an arguement. But you completely ignore any comments and just post w/e the hell you want as a response.

I already made the case that we don't need to draft a CB with better players on the board because we will be better at CB next season with Travis Daniels getting healthy and Jason Allen moving to CB. Which is an improvement from last year plus the fact we were already a top 5 defense in the NFL with those CBs. Obviously they more then held their own or we would not be so good on D. You completely ignored those comments and just bashed Will Allen and even saying his career is almost over at age 28. Like that makes sense to anyone but your twisted mind.

Then I made the point that we needed Alan Branch because we we lost Jeff Zgonina, Dan Wilkinson, Kevin Carter, and David Bowens. You completely ignore that as well.

Later you said Branch is slow and out of shape but when I pointed out he is considered the best DT in the draft, has been great in workouts and has his stock soaring, you completely ignore that statement and bash him instead of doing some research to see how impressive he has been.

In your very 1st post you asked for explainations as to why certain picks won't happen. I've listed many reasons why the Leon Hall pick wont happen if Branch is on the board yet you ignore them and make your own stupid statements like "your CB are below average". You act like that is a valid reason to reach in the top 10 instead of getting a better talent at another position that is argueably just as big a need.

I gave you reasons why we would take Sidney Rice ahead of Fred Bennett, yet you ignored that as well. I told you we have the Pats 2nd rounder and gave you reasons why we would take Drew Stanton ahead of Tanard Jackson yet you still ignored that.

If you ask for reasons and explainations then don't get mad and pissy when we give them to you. And especially don't try to defend yourself when you clearly messed up and gave the Dolphins 3 CBs in the 1st 2 rounds.

It's rediculous that you ask for comments, get comments and then ignore the comments when given. To top it off you make stupid statements like "Leon Hall is a shut down CB" when just about every NFL scout, draft expert and even fan is saying he is not.

I'd love to hear how you think Earl Everett is a 1st rounder. How you think Robert Meachem slips to the low 2nd and how you think Stanley Doughty is a day 1 pick. Doughty might not even get drafted. You made your mock strictly based off the ratings from the mymockdraft site's best avialable list. All you did was slot needs to team and let the mymockdraft site do the rest. It's clearly obvious to anyone that has spent any sort of time on that site. Your mock is awful.

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 04:19 PM

I gave you reasons why we would take Sidney Rice ahead of Fred Bennett, yet you ignored that as well. I told you we have the Pats 2nd rounder and gave you reasons why we would take Drew Stanton ahead of Tanard Jackson yet you still ignored that.
I didn't ignore it, and I agree Sid Rice would probably be selected ahead of a 3rd round prospect. However you failed to read when I told you I don't have control at that site on who picks where...so you're going to have to live with it for now. Stanton to me is a horrible fit for Miami. Not only is Culpeppers contract still over 80 Million Cleo Lemon and Joey Harrington had some moderate success..J.H. probably won't be brought back and Cleo Lemon probably isn't going to generate a ton of interest elsewhere. SOOOO QB to me isn't an area where Miami feels that they "have" to take a QB day 1.

If you ask for reasons and explainations then don't get mad and pissy when we give them to you. And especially don't try to defend yourself when you clearly messed up and gave the Dolphins 3 CBs in the 1st 2 rounds. If anyones been pissy on here it's been you.
I don't mind critisizm...but you'd better be able to back it. You have done a very good job of explaining why you'd rather have certain players.
I think the only thing we really disagree on is the assestment of Leon Hall.
The 2nd round pick(s) will be changed ...and I would ask you to p.m. me so I can further discuss it with you.

It's rediculous that you ask for comments, get comments and then ignore the comments when given.
I asked for comments ? really, because that's news to me.
Please show me where it was.

To top it off you make stupid statements like "Leon Hall is a shut down CB" when just about every NFL scout, draft expert and even fan is saying he is not. This is just flat out hatred on the best CB prospect in 3 years. He's is by far the most prepared CB to come out this year, last year or the year prior. You hate him...admit it and let's move on
from there.

I'd love to hear how you think Earl Everett is a 1st rounder. How you think Robert Meachem slips to the low 2nd and how you think Stanley Doughty is a day 1 pick.
Everett is a great 3-4 ILB , he's not side to side quick enough to be a 4-3 ILB and he's a tad short. However inside on a 3-4 he'd have more freedom to use his instinctuvness. I think he's good enough in coverage (what Pats LB's must be)
and reads and reacts better than the other 3 LB's rated similar to him.
Meachem to me didnt' "slip" ..he's more of a flanker WR to me. His 40 time has confued people into thinking he's something he's not.

Doughty might not even get drafted. You made your mock strictly based off the ratings from the mymockdraft site's best avialable list. All you did was slot needs to team and let the mymockdraft site do the rest. It's clearly obvious to anyone that has spent any sort of time on that site. Your mock is awful.
Glad you enjoyed it...link me yours and we can compare.

21ST

03-19-2007, 04:29 PM

Great redskins pick, if we get gaines adams that would be perfect.

Joeyjr09

03-19-2007, 04:37 PM

I didn't ignore it, and I agree Sid Rice would probably be selected ahead of a 3rd round prospect. However you failed to read when I told you I don't have control at that site on who picks where...so you're going to have to live with it for now. Stanton to me is a horrible fit for Miami. Not only is Culpeppers contract still over 80 Million Cleo Lemon and Joey Harrington had some moderate success..J.H. probably won't be brought back and Cleo Lemon probably isn't going to generate a ton of interest elsewhere. SOOOO QB to me isn't an area where Miami feels that they "have" to take a QB day 1.

No you didn't read what I was saying. And you don't even know your own mock. Sidney Rice would be picked ahead of Fred Bennett and we control that pick on the mymockdraft site. Plus if you read the site, you can control who picks where. Go to the edit comments section and you can fix it thru there.

Id love to hear how Stanton is a horrible fit for Miami. Please elighten me. Especially since they have already shown interest in him and spoken with him more then once. He is exactly the type fo big armed, pocket QB that Cam Cameron loves. Joey Harrington was released a long time ago. So like I said, please do some reseach before you start telling me I don't know what I'm saying about my own team.

I asked for comments ? really, because that's news to me.
Please show me where it was.

If your posting posting a mock draft on a fan based message board, then you obviously want feedback. It's not rocket science. No one on here posts and expects to not get any replies. Plus the fact you mentioned you wanted explainations as to why we think our teams would make the picks you have for them. I've explained it alot and yet you defend your picks like you know everything.

This is just flat out hatred on the best CB prospect in 3 years. He's is by far the most prepared CB to come out this year, last year or the year prior. You hate him...admit it and let's move on
from there.

Leon Hall is better then any of last's year's CBs. But thats not saying much. I seriously doubt anyone here considers him a better prospect then Pac-Man Jones or Antrel Rolle when those two came out and he's definately not a better prospect then DeAngelo Hall or Dunta Robinson. If you wanna go back even further, Terrence Newman and Marcus Turfant were better prospects then Leon Hall. Saying he's the best CB prospect to come out within the last three year's is rediculous. I think the problem is that you have not seen Leon Hall play enough. He give up alot of catches and disspears alot during the games. He is not half the prospect you give him credit for. Leon Hall will be a solid all around CB in thise league. He is not however, a shut down CB.

Everett is a great 3-4 ILB , he's not side to side quick enough to be a 4-3 ILB and he's a tad short. However inside on a 3-4 he'd have more freedom to use his instinctuvness. I think he's good enough in coverage (what Pats LB's must be)
and reads and reacts better than the other 3 LB's rated similar to him.

Everett is a tad short? What the Hell are you talking about? Hes almost 6'3. There's only about 4 LBs in the entire draft that are taller then him. He is skinny, not short. Of course he's not fast enough to be a 4-3 ILB. He has never been a 4-3 ILB. He is a 4-3 OLB. He is a perfect fit as a 4-3 OLB were he can use his solid coverage skills and the fact that he is a good at chasing people down from behind.

I don't get your reasoning for moving him to the inside on a 3-4. Because he'd have more freedom to use his intincts? Are you joking? One of the knocks against him is that he is not very instinctive and gets by on his great natural talent. He is horrible with his read and react skills. You evaluation of the guy is almost completely opposite of every other person I've ever seen. He is a WLB in the 4-3. He is not a 3-4 LB and he is definately not a 1st round talent not matter where you play him.

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 04:49 PM

No you didn't read what I was saying. And you don't even know your own mock. Sidney Rice would be picked ahead of Fred Bennett and we control that pick on the mymockdraft site. Plus if you read the site, you can control who picks where. Go to the edit comments section and you can fix it thru there.

This is news to me. I will check out the control aspects.

Id love to hear how Stanton is a horrible fit for Miami. Please elighten me. Especially since they have already shown interest in him and spoken with him more then once. He is exactly the type fo big armed, pocket QB that Cam Cameron loves. Joey Harrington was released a long time ago. So like I said, please do some reseach before you start telling me I don't know what I'm saying about my own team.[quote]

hahaha...I stated Harrington likely wouldn't be back. Not sure why you felt the need to say it was well. Ignoring the fact that you have an 80 million dollar reason not to take a QB must've been an oversight.

[quote]If your posting posting a mock draft on a fan based message board, then you obviously want feedback. It's not rocket science. No one on here posts and expects to not get any replies. Plus the fact you mentioned you wanted explainations as to why we think our teams would make the picks you have for them. I've explained it alot and yet you defend your picks like you know everything.

I didn't ever ask for a comment. I posted it here so others could read and enjoy it. I said "give explanations" because fans of sports can't help themselves when it comes to lipping off on anything where they feel they're experts.

Leon Hall is better then any of last's year's CBs. But thats not saying much. I seriously doubt anyone here considers him a better prospect then Pac-Man Jones or Antrel Rolle when those two came out and he's definately not a better prospect then DeAngelo Hall or Dunta Robinson. If you wanna go back even further, Terrence Newman and Marcus Turfant were better prospects then Leon Hall. Saying he's the best CB prospect to come out within the last three year's is rediculous. I think the problem is that you have not seen Leon Hall play enough. He give up alot of catches and disspears alot during the games. He is not half the prospect you give him credit for. Leon Hall will be a solid all around CB in thise league. He is not however, a shut down CB.

Leon Hall the CB versus the athlete ...as a CB he has ZERO flaws. He doesn't "disapear" during games...teams simply stop throwing his way.
Is Champ Bailey over rated or was Deion Sanders over rated because teams chooose to throw to the other side of the field or underneath ?
DeAngelo Hall, Marcus Trufant and Terrance Newman were all publicized more...I'll admit that. Dunta Robinson wasn't viewed as highly because of his height. Leon Hall is the BEST CB prospect of the last 3 years. And to say he's solid not great, leads me to beleive you don't watch ANY Michigan games. I'm an avid follower of the Big10 (have season tix to the Gophers) and can tell you he's the most fundamentally sound CB I've ever seen play college ball. The only one I'd say was as ready for the next level was Adam Jones...but his character flaws (which are almost daily proving to be correct) wasn't factored in as much as it should've been. Talent Wise pac-man was better....as a prospect ? never.
Hall is a sure fire top 10 talent , the Dolphins should be salivating to upgrade a position where they recieved very few turnovers from and you're acting like they're the best tandem in the league. Seriously, Will Allen is an average talent and neither Goodman NOR Daniels are anywhere near the talent Hall would be. This pick is very likely to happen. Hate it all you want.

hugegmenfan

03-19-2007, 05:13 PM

poor giants mock

I like the 1st rounder a lot
2nd rounder- Ugoh makes sense but i think if robert meachem some how possibly makes it out of the 1st round and into the 2nd we gotta nab him
3rd- michael bush would b another power runner with jacobs and droughns- go for a shifty back in day 2- give us a CB there

Joeyjr09

03-19-2007, 05:14 PM

hahaha...I stated Harrington likely wouldn't be back. Not sure why you felt the need to say it was well. Ignoring the fact that you have an 80 million dollar reason not to take a QB must've been an oversight.

NFL contracts are not guaranteed. Culpepper was brought in by a different coach and doesn't fit Cam Camerons system. Wed save 1.3 million if we cut him this season and we save even more if we cut him next season. We've already set up meeting with JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn. We've already met with Drew Stanton more then once. We are rumored to be interested in Trent Green and have talked to the Cheifs about him. But your right. We won't take a QB at all.

You stated Joey Harrington will likely not be back. Which means you thought he was still on the team. He was already released and definately will not be back. It's just another example that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I didn't ever ask for a comment. I posted it here so others could read and enjoy it. I said "give explanations" because fans of sports can't help themselves when it comes to lipping off on anything where they feel they're experts.

Dude don't even lie. Your talking about other people lipping off and thinking they are expert's but then you make a statement like " I put it for people to read and enjoy" You the one that thinks your an expert.You swear people would rather read your mock then to go on any other draft site and view mocks from real draft experts. Don't be so full of yourself. If you didnt want comments then you wouldn't be back here replying to everything other posters have to say. You'd have just posted it and left.

Hall is a sure fire top 10 talent , the Dolphins should be salivating to upgrade a position where they recieved very few turnovers from and you're acting like they're the best tandem in the league. Seriously, Will Allen is an average talent and neither Goodman NOR Daniels are anywhere near the talent Hall would be. This pick is very likely to happen. Hate it all you want.

Dude, If you really think Leon Hall is a better CB prospect then DeAngelo Hall, Dunta Robinson, Terrence Newman, Pac-Man Jones and Antrell Rolle then you really need to start doing some reseach. I didnt say or act like the were the best tandem in the NFL. In fact I never used the word tandem. I said the Dolphins have depth at CB but need a shut down CB. Leon Hall is not a shut down CB.

That fact you say any pick is likely to happen makes me laugh. The Dolphins are the hardest team in the 1st round to peg down and yet you think they are likely to pick Leon Hall? Reggie Bush was supposed to be a lock last season and look what happened. Miami could go millions of different directions with their 1st round pick yet you think your hot stuff saying the pick is likely to happen. Get our yourself dude. Your not that cool. You should really read up on the Dolphins and on their needs and the team in general before you go discussing them.

By the way, you clearly ignored the part were I asked you why you thought Drew Stanton was a bad fit for the Dolphins.

Bengals1690

03-19-2007, 05:19 PM

Bengals picks are fine, but overall this draft is terrible.

haccess

03-19-2007, 05:27 PM

Pretty good Panthers draft, but FYI Weinke isn't a Panther anymore. Also, we don't have a starting SS so I think we'd take Sabby Piscatelli over Troy Smith in the 3rd.

49ers169

03-19-2007, 05:31 PM

There is no way the Niners pass on Robert Meachem. We may just trade back and take him in the first if we want to address that weakness in the first. Meachem is a good receiver and in no way should be that far in the second round. As far as Carriker I love the pick and Smith in the third since I believe Meachem will go in the 1st.

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 05:32 PM

Pretty good Panthers draft, but FYI Weinke isn't a Panther anymore. Also, we don't have a starting SS so I think we'd take Sabby Piscatelli over Troy Smith in the 3rd.
lol, sorry...I started this and finished it very early this morning...should've said Delhome. My bad.

Man_Of_Steel

03-19-2007, 05:44 PM

love the H.B pick

The Dynasty

03-19-2007, 05:45 PM

I like the vikings draft fellow vikings fan. I think you adressed our biggest need greatly with round 2 and round 3 with Wide Outs. Sidney Rice and Jason Hill will help out this receiving core. Im not surprised about Quinn to the vikings with you. I know where you stand with him and with Jackson. Im growing to liking Quinn by day. Not a bad mock draft IMO just dont know about CJ on the Browns. Id be scared of Edwards and CJ Tandem. With Buffalo's pick Houston is sort of a pick that will be questioned mainly because I think MLB is a bigger need for them since they drafted Ashton Yobouty last year.

Nice Mock Severe

Severe Punishment

03-19-2007, 07:01 PM

TY Dynasty. I have to say ....making this 3 rounder took longer than I thought it would (almost 2.5 hours) in the end I'm satisfied with it...theres a few picks I wish I would redo...but for what it is, I like it.

Acreboy

03-19-2007, 07:07 PM

who exactly is "us" and "we" ?Sorry, Saints

bucksavage

03-19-2007, 10:42 PM

The Raiders are taking a QB on Day 1 at this point

mikevick7owns

03-19-2007, 10:48 PM

If you didnt make a mock to appease fans then why even make a mock, build it up as one of the two you do every year and then post it on a fan based message board? Sounds to me like you wanted fan input or you wouldn't be putting it on a fan based message board. And if you are going to put it on a fan based message board then you should be ready to recieve fan based responses to teams that they know and love and follow much more then you do.

If you even bother to listen to anything I said then maybe you'd have an arguement. But you completely ignore any comments and just post w/e the hell you want as a response.

I already made the case that we don't need to draft a CB with better players on the board because we will be better at CB next season with Travis Daniels getting healthy and Jason Allen moving to CB. Which is an improvement from last year plus the fact we were already a top 5 defense in the NFL with those CBs. Obviously they more then held their own or we would not be so good on D. You completely ignored those comments and just bashed Will Allen and even saying his career is almost over at age 28. Like that makes sense to anyone but your twisted mind.

Then I made the point that we needed Alan Branch because we we lost Jeff Zgonina, Dan Wilkinson, Kevin Carter, and David Bowens. You completely ignore that as well.

Later you said Branch is slow and out of shape but when I pointed out he is considered the best DT in the draft, has been great in workouts and has his stock soaring, you completely ignore that statement and bash him instead of doing some research to see how impressive he has been.

In your very 1st post you asked for explainations as to why certain picks won't happen. I've listed many reasons why the Leon Hall pick wont happen if Branch is on the board yet you ignore them and make your own stupid statements like "your CB are below average". You act like that is a valid reason to reach in the top 10 instead of getting a better talent at another position that is argueably just as big a need.

I gave you reasons why we would take Sidney Rice ahead of Fred Bennett, yet you ignored that as well. I told you we have the Pats 2nd rounder and gave you reasons why we would take Drew Stanton ahead of Tanard Jackson yet you still ignored that.

If you ask for reasons and explainations then don't get mad and pissy when we give them to you. And especially don't try to defend yourself when you clearly messed up and gave the Dolphins 3 CBs in the 1st 2 rounds.

It's rediculous that you ask for comments, get comments and then ignore the comments when given. To top it off you make stupid statements like "Leon Hall is a shut down CB" when just about every NFL scout, draft expert and even fan is saying he is not.

I'd love to hear how you think Earl Everett is a 1st rounder. How you think Robert Meachem slips to the low 2nd and how you think Stanley Doughty is a day 1 pick. Doughty might not even get drafted. You made your mock strictly based off the ratings from the mymockdraft site's best avialable list. All you did was slot needs to team and let the mymockdraft site do the rest. It's clearly obvious to anyone that has spent any sort of time on that site. Your mock is awful.

oh my god owned. hahahahaha

very very informative post. i learned a lot about the dolphins from that, that will help my mock. thank you.

mikevick7owns

03-19-2007, 10:53 PM

Leon Hall is better then any of last's year's CBs. But thats not saying much. I seriously doubt anyone here considers him a better prospect then Pac-Man Jones or Antrel Rolle when those two came out and he's definately not a better prospect then DeAngelo Hall or Dunta Robinson. If you wanna go back even further, Terrence Newman and Marcus Turfant were better prospects then Leon Hall. Saying he's the best CB prospect to come out within the last three year's is rediculous. I think the problem is that you have not seen Leon Hall play enough. He give up alot of catches and disspears alot during the games. He is not half the prospect you give him credit for. Leon Hall will be a solid all around CB in thise league. He is not however, a shut down CB.

i really disagree with that statement. leon hall is better than jimmy williams, richard marshall, tye hill, and all the other cbs from last years class? i disagree a lot. i think leon hall is overrated and i dont think hes the best CB in THIS class, which is pretty weak, much less better than everyone from last year, or the past 3 years.

Davidfdez

03-19-2007, 11:02 PM

49ers:

Rd 1: Branch. Strike 1. I don't think Mike Nolan likes him as much as
Rd 2: Strike 2. A dime CB. Yes, that's it. A dime CB because there's no way a rookie surpasses Clements, Walt Harris or Spencer.
Rd 3: Not bad, but I'd prefer an ILB or a WR.

E for Effort.

Severe Punishment

03-20-2007, 12:50 AM

KCJ58

03-20-2007, 01:11 AM

Like the 1st and 2nd round Rams Picks

haccess

03-20-2007, 08:04 AM

1. Olsen
2. Blades
3. Piscatteli

Now you've got a top-notch Panthers draft. :eek:
If we had this draft and also picked up a serviceable WR/KR or QB in the late rounds I'd be ecstatic.

Jensen

03-20-2007, 08:09 AM

1st - Great
2nd - Not very good
3rd - Good

LionSmack

03-20-2007, 09:57 AM

JK17

03-20-2007, 10:54 AM

I know the SD pick at 30 is hard to call with the top 3 safeties being off the board already, and no trades being allowed from the mock site, but I just really can't see them taking merriweather. Not a talent problem, just an attitude problem. After releasing Kiel for off the field incidents I don't see AJ filling his void with another guy who has baggage. He's met with both Meachem and Rice though at WWR, and likes them from what I hear, so since you got them going in the second round, I could see them filling in.

Assuming they do go with Merriweather though, I like the Steve Smith pick alot in the second, and the Shaw pick I wouldn't mind to build some depth.

Joeyjr09

03-20-2007, 12:54 PM

i really disagree with that statement. leon hall is better than jimmy williams, richard marshall, tye hill, and all the other cbs from last years class? i disagree a lot. i think leon hall is overrated and i dont think hes the best CB in THIS class, which is pretty weak, much less better than everyone from last year, or the past 3 years.

Leon Hall is considered a better prospect then Jimmy Williams, Richard Marshall and Tye Hill were when they came out last season. Doesn't mean Hall will be a better player. I mean Williams and Marshall didn't even go 1st round. With Hall your talking about a pretty complete CB that should go in the 12-18 range this season.

He is not however a better prospect then Pac-Man Jones, Antrel Rolle, DeAngelo Hall, and Dunta Robinson were when they came out of school.

Severe Punishment

03-20-2007, 12:56 PM

I don't have the biggest argument with the players you have the Lions taking, only thing is Anderson at #2. If the Lions stay at 2, then they don't take him, they take CJ or Thomas most likely. If Anderson's their target, they trade down and get an extra first-day pick, which they would use on the LB that you have them missing out on.

Now, you will say "oh but no trades" and that's fine, but then the Lions should be taking one of the elite group with that #2 pick and not reaching out of the elite group.
To me J.A. will be this years Mario Williams (to a lesser extent, they're very comparable) They're measureables are pretty close and while the Lions did sign White to be the speed rusher ...they really don't have much talent there. Anderson has more upside than anyother DE in the draft as his game elevated every year. He's not done maturing physically and could add another 10 lbs of muscle to become even stronger.
Anderson will most likely see a huge "bump" in evaluation the closer to the draft we get. I really believe that by draft day he'll be a "lock" to go top 5. No matter where Detroit picks, I think this is the guy they target.
I know right now Gaines Adams would seem to be the better fit...but to me he'd be alot like adding a Dewayne White (though Adams clearly has a higher ceiling ...White and Adams are both primarily "edge rushers")
If Detroit is still at 2 and unable to make a move to trade down (with Arizona ...as right now I don't see anyone else wanting to move up) I still
expect them to take Jammal.
Thanks for the feedback.

Joeyjr09

03-20-2007, 01:12 PM

To me J.A. will be this years Mario Williams

It's only a month before the draft. If he was going to make a jump like that, it would started to happen already since the combine is over and pro days are nearing the end. About a month ago Anderson was going between 2-7 in most mocks I saw and people were really high on him. Lately I've seen him more in the 6-10 range and even lower in some cases. His stock is not going up. It's leveling out right were it should be. Mario Williams put on a huge combnie that make his stock soar for a month making him the top pick. Anderson has been impressive but not as impressive as Gaines Adams who is the more likely of the two to get taken earlier.

Severe Punishment

03-20-2007, 02:02 PM

dlions20

03-20-2007, 03:58 PM

umm i dont mind anderson and hughes but we would need to trade down and get anderson and we would draft hughes in the third. Use second rd pick on oline like an aaron sears

Joeyjr09

03-20-2007, 04:18 PM

Although I agree that Mario was the better prospect , J.A.'s measureables
are very similar (minus the strength, which probably has something to do with being 6 lbs lighter) Plus their junior campaigns are very close.
Williams also had John McCargo and Manny Lawson to help keep pressure off him while Keith Jackson was a nice linemate of Andersons I highly doubt he goes in the first 4 rounds this year.

Mario Williams:................Jammal Anderson.........
6'7", 294 lbs..................6'5 3/8", 288 lbs...........
40 time: 4.73..................40 time: 4.75.............
Bench: 35 times................Bench: 22 times........
Vertical: 40 1/2 inches........Vertical: 32.5 inches..
.................................................. ....
Career Stats...................Career Stats.............
126 solo tackles...............130 solo Tackles.......
25 1/2 sacks...................17.5 Sacks...............
55 1/2 tackles for loss........32.0 Tackles for loss..
.................................................. .................
Junior Year Stats............................................
62 tackles.....................65 tackles..................
14.5 sacks.....................13.5 sacks.................
27.5 tackles for loss..........19.5 tackles for loss...

Although he didn't "blow away" anyone at his personal day..
IMO Anderson is the type of end the Lions will be lookin for come draft day.

You considered Jamaal Anderson's measurables to be similar to Mario Williams? In what world? Did you not just look at the stats you put up?

Mario is almost 2 inches taller then Jamaal. That's a pretty big deal. Mario has 13 more reps on the bench. Thats a big difference in strength. Mario also jumped 8 inches higher on his vertical leap. Thats a huge difference in terms of leg strength and athleticism. The only measureable where you can say they are close is speed and even then you will be hard pressed to find a DL running 40 yards in a game. Mario was considered one of the quickest DEs off the ball in recent memory while Jamaal is not. Mario blows Jamaal away in almost every measurable you just put up. I don't know how you would consider them "Similar".

Those are just measurables as well. Mario has 7 more sacks and 23 more tackles for a loss over the course of his career at NC State. Thats another big difference.

You also mention they had similar year's during their junior seasons. However. Mario had 8 more TFL and 1 more sack during his JR year then Jamaal did. That's 9 extra plays behind then line of scrimmage. That's a huge difference. Over the course of a 12 game college season, thats almost 1 extra big play per game behind then line that Mario made that Jamaal didn't.

Jamaal is not nearly the prospect Mario Williams was. They are not similar. Not in terms of talent and definately not in terms of style of play. Anderson is a good player and solid prospect but he should not go much higher then number 5 and will likely end up in the 6-10 range. Mario Williams was on a completely difference level as a prospect and saw his stock soar him all the way to number 1 overall.

regoob2

03-20-2007, 04:22 PM

Maybe you should make a third this year!

Davidfdez

03-20-2007, 05:16 PM

? What ? Refresh the page or something.

Sorry... when I first saw it, those three picks were there.

So now it's Carriker/Ginn/Weddle. Great value picks although I'm not a big fan of Ginn. We already have our poor-route-running speedster in Lelie. The other two selections are superb.

mikevick7owns

03-20-2007, 05:55 PM

Leon Hall is considered a better prospect then Jimmy Williams, Richard Marshall and Tye Hill were when they came out last season. Doesn't mean Hall will be a better player. I mean Williams and Marshall didn't even go 1st round. With Hall your talking about a pretty complete CB that should go in the 12-18 range this season.

He is not however a better prospect then Pac-Man Jones, Antrel Rolle, DeAngelo Hall, and Dunta Robinson were when they came out of school.

but im not really sure why. he doesnt have elite size or speed, even though he ran a faster 40 than most people expected. he is well rounded, and good in all areas, but not great at anything. he doesnt have a lot of glaring weaknesses but that didnt stop him from getting lit up against USC.

but i agree that hes not a better prospect than pac man, rolle, dhall or dunta.

mikevick7owns

03-20-2007, 05:57 PM

Sorry... when I first saw it, those three picks were there.

So now it's Carriker/Ginn/Weddle. Great value picks although I'm not a big fan of Ginn. We already have our poor-route-running speedster in Lelie. The other two selections are superb.

ted ginn falling out of the 1st?

i dont think hes good enough to be in the 1st, but that doesnt mean there wont be teams that will draft him earlier just because of his speed and KR potential.

Davidfdez

03-20-2007, 06:05 PM

ted ginn falling out of the 1st?

i dont think hes good enough to be in the 1st, but that doesnt mean there wont be teams that will draft him earlier just because of his speed and KR potential.

IMO it's not too far-fetched. Sure he's fast but there are some valid concerns about the other areas of his playing style. Like route-running.

That's why I'm not a big fan... and a part of me dies when I see a mock draft giving us Ginn in round 1. LOL.

Severe Punishment

03-21-2007, 12:40 AM

Mario is almost 2 inches taller then Jamaal. That's a pretty big deal. Mario has 13 more reps on the bench. Thats a big difference in strength. Mario also jumped 8 inches higher on his vertical leap. Thats a huge difference in terms of leg strength and athleticism. The only measureable where you can say they are close is speed and even then you will be hard pressed to find a DL running 40 yards in a game. Mario was considered one of the quickest DEs off the ball in recent memory while Jamaal is not. Mario blows Jamaal away in almost every measurable you just put up. I don't know how you would consider them "Similar".
Explain to the free world exactly how being 2 inches taller translates to more success. You don't get strength from being tall junior you get it from working your large muscle groups....or perhaps you beleive Manute Bol wasted his time in the NBA and should've been a powerlifter.
Not only that I ADMITTED that Mario "wowed" the scouts with his bench and vert, so what ? seriously is Mike Mamula in the HOF for showing great times and #'s at the combine ??? Wow, just freakin wow. You need a reality check about not using stupid #'s to back your ignorant notions.
The only #'s where they're THAT far off is bench....which I already ADMITTED before Jammal can put on another 10lbs of muscle. Where
Mario came in with scouts thinking that his body couldn't handle more than 5 more pounds or so of muscle without losing his quick first step.
I already said MARIO is the better pro prospect going into the draft...what part of that are you having trouble with ? I also said Mario played on a line that had another 1st round pick on it AND a LB chosen in the first round...meaning he didn't have to do as much as J.A. So you'd think being single covered more Mario's #'s would've been off the charts ...they weren't His last 7 games were outstanding but where was he the first 4 ?
Despite receiving more attention on the line Anderson's #'s were every bit as good.
Seriously, you try and make it sound like Mario is this all world DE who dominated the league because his vertical was 8" more than Jammal's.
He didn't 3.5 sacks is hardly worth mentioning. 35 solo tackles...yawn.
Jesus, he had almost as many pass deflections as sacks.

Those are just measurables as well. Mario has 7 more sacks and 23 more tackles for a loss over the course of his career at NC State. Thats another big difference.
Did you completely miss the part where Williams played on a more talented line ? recieved fewere double teams and started almost a full year more than Anderson ?

You also mention they had similar year's during their junior seasons. However. Mario had 8 more TFL and 1 more sack during his JR year then Jamaal did. That's 9 extra plays behind then line of scrimmage. That's a huge difference. Over the course of a 12 game college season, thats almost 1 extra big play per game behind then line that Mario made that Jamaal didn't. Read above.
although I see a pattern in your answers ...everything Mario Williams does is a "huge difference" when clearly they're #'s being used to defend your belief...totally throwing away logic , reason and assestment.
Of course under your belief notion Scott Young is a virtual lock to be in the Pro Bowl year in and year out....who you ask ?..look him up.

Jamaal is not nearly the prospect Mario Williams was. They are not similar. Not in terms of talent and definately not in terms of style of play. Anderson is a good player and solid prospect but he should not go much higher then number 5 and will likely end up in the 6-10 range. Mario Williams was on a completely difference level as a prospect and saw his stock soar him all the way to number 1 overall.
Did I suggest he was ? No, in fact I've said NUMBEROUS times on here that Mario is the better prospect at this time before the draft....but the
comparisson is not off base and these 2 are closer together in skill than they are further apart. In fact Anderson being over 2 inches shorter will give him an advantage (leverage) as well as I believe his inside moves are BETTER at this point than Mario's were. Mario was an outside speed rusher with 1 move. Anderson has at least 3 effective techniques in which I expect him to be able to contribute MORE than what Williams was able to do with the Texans.

He was never "on a different level as a prospect" your blowing smoke around here...he was projected to go 5 to Green Bay until Houston shocked the world and took him over Bush 1 day before the draft.
In fact , it's pretty safe to say that they're virtually the SAME player (for the most part) so go grab some t.p. wipe your tongue and stop **** talkin on here.

Severe Punishment

03-21-2007, 12:40 AM

Maybe you should make a third this year!
Where do they breed class like this ? Philly ? Detroit ? ....do tell.

Severe Punishment

03-21-2007, 12:45 AM

ted ginn falling out of the 1st?

i dont think hes good enough to be in the 1st, but that doesnt mean there wont be teams that will draft him earlier just because of his speed and KR potential.
Eh, alot of people consider a player "without a position"...let's face it his WR "skillz" are boarderline terrible and a WR with sub 4.3 speed has been tried out before (Vikings - Troy Williamson -2004) and has worked like crap. Now, how many teams are REALLY going to spend a 1st on a Punt Returner ? They effect the game MAYBE 3 times a game. I'm not buying speed being a round 1 aspect where teams can afford to disregard everything else. Do i think he MIGHT be selected round 1 ? of course I do.
Stupid teams have made stupid picks in every draft...it's part of the fabric of the NFL it's the drama that brings us back.
But his best comparison at this point is Devin Hester....and though many teams would love to have Hester...no team was spending a 1st rounder last year on it. And they won't this year either (note Hester landed in the best possible scenario, a defensive team with a moderate to poor offense on a team with an offense that could score more than 1 TD every 3 weeks Hesters direct effect would've been lessened. but when 4 of those 6 returns were game winning points, it dramatizes the effect)

Severe Punishment

03-21-2007, 12:46 AM

IMO it's not too far-fetched. Sure he's fast but there are some valid concerns about the other areas of his playing style. Like route-running.

That's why I'm not a big fan... and a part of me dies when I see a mock draft giving us Ginn in round 1. LOL.
Route running, Hands, body control, work ethic, desire....all questioned.
Hardly the traits of someone I'd like to invest millions into , or (and worse yet) pass on a guy who posseses more of the things I want in a football player.

BUTerriers

03-21-2007, 12:47 AM

Not as horrible as other people say it is, but I do have a few problems with it...

Revis at 15 to Pittsburgh. Don't see CB as a first round need for the Steelers, a linebacker or offensive lineman seems a lot more likely.

McCauley at 25 to Jets. I don't pretend to be an expert of the Jets, but I'm pretty sure Mangini is big on character, like Belicheck. McCauley is not a player of character, and I can't see him going to either the Jets or the Pats, especially because of the coaches' ties with the Fresno State coach, who suspended McCauley.

Everett at 32 to Indy. You say he's "quick"? He ran a 4.88 at the combine, that's just horrible considering the times for other LBs. He'll be expected to drop back into coverage in Indy's Cover 2, how is he going to do that with that kind of speed? He's better than the 4.88 might show, but no way in hell is he a 1st rounder.

Daymeion Hughes at 34 to Detroit. Like Everett, his horrible Combine 40 time will keep him from going this high, even though he'll probably drop farther than he deserves. Definitely a possbility 3rd round, but no way he goes top of the 2nd.

Pitcock at 59 to Jets. Unless he bulks up considerably, Pitcock isn't a 3-4 NT, which is what the Jets need. I guess he's a possibility for a 3-4 DE, but Crowder would fit better if that's what they wanted, in my opinion.

Troy Smith at 92 to Pats. Um...what? I doubt they're looking for Brady's successor now, and they seem to be content with Cassel as the back-up. Why use a 1st day pick on a QB? If they absolutely must grab a 3rd stringer, it will be late round/UDFA.

And I don't see guys like Weddle, Crowder, and Abriami slipping into round 3, but that's just my opinion...

Joeyjr09

03-21-2007, 01:41 AM

Explain to the free world exactly how being 2 inches taller translates to more success. You don't get strength from being tall junior you get it from working your large muscle groups....or perhaps you beleive Manute Bol wasted his time in the NBA and should've been a powerlifter.

When talking about prospects. Height is a big deal. We are not discussing who we think will be a better player. We were discussing prospects. Its two completely different things. Mario being two inches taller is a huge difference. Two inches could be the difference between a ball knocked down at the line instead of a completed pass. Not to mention taller players usually have bigger wingspans which is huge for a DE because it allows them to use their arms to stay further away from OL and get by blocks easier. For as much junk as you talk. You shoudl realize this.

Not only that I ADMITTED that Mario "wowed" the scouts with his bench and vert, so what ? seriously is Mike Mamula in the HOF for showing great times and #'s at the combine ??? Wow, just freakin wow.

Again. We are not talking about who is a better player or will have a better career. We are talking about better prospects. Bench presses and vert go into making players better prospects and they are taken into account by NFL people.

You need a reality check about not using stupid #'s to back your ignorant notions.

Now you are getting to bashing for now reason. Read the quote above. Now look back. It was you my friend that brought up numbers and measurables. Not me. I merely used your numbers to show how wrong you are in your analysis these players.

The only #'s where they're THAT far off is bench....which I already ADMITTED before Jammal can put on another 10lbs of muscle.

You keep saying that the reason Jamaal Anderson doesn't bench as much as Mario Williams is because he weighs less. That is 100 percent false. He weighs less because he is 2 inches shorter. Jamaal Anderson doesn't bench as much as Mario Williams because he plain and simple isn't as strong as Mario Williams.

I already said MARIO is the better pro prospect going into the draft...what part of that are you having trouble with ?

If you established that Mario Williams is a better prospect then Jamaal Anderson, then why are you having Anderson taken this season at almost the same spot as Mario was last season. Mario was viewed by most as the 2nd best prospect behind Reggie Bush. You have Jamaal Anderson going ahead of better prospects such as Joe Thomas and Calvin Johnson. If you admit Anderson isn't as good as prospect, then why do you project him to be picked as if he were just as good a prospect?

I also said Mario played on a line that had another 1st round pick on it AND a LB chosen in the first round...meaning he didn't have to do as much as J.A.

J.A. played on overall better defenses and teams then any of the teams Mario ever played for so that point in moot. Each player had their advantages and disadvantages as far as theri teams were concerned.

Despite receiving more attention on the line Anderson's #'s were every bit as good.

Did you miss the part where Mario had almost 10 more plays for a loss his junior season and over 30 more plays for a loss for the course of their careers? You keep saying the numbers where every bit as good but yet the numbers you brought up clearly show that Mario put up better numbers.

Seriously, you try and make it sound like Mario is this all world DE who dominated the league because his vertical was 8" more than Jammal's.
He didn't 3.5 sacks is hardly worth mentioning. 35 solo tackles...yawn.
Jesus, he had almost as many pass deflections as sacks.

Again. You are missing the point. We are discussing who is a better prospect, not who is a better player. For Example, Tony Mandrich was considered a better prospect then Orlando Pace. Yet, Orlando Pace is a better player. What Maro Williams did in the NFL has no influence on how good of a prospect he was when he came out of college. You failed to realize that having a vertical leap 8 inches more then another player, helps make you a better prospect. Not nessecarily a better player. NFL scouts draft the best prospects and hope that the prospects they draft can translate into the NFL level.

although I see a pattern in your answers ...everything Mario Williams does is a "huge difference" when clearly they're #'s being used to defend your belief...totally throwing away logic , reason and assestment.

You see a pattern because there is a pattern. Again, you brought up the numbers, not me. I merely pointed out that there was a huge difference in the numbers between the two prospects while you think the fact Mario has better numbers across the board means nothing.

Of course under your belief notion Scott Young is a virtual lock to be in the Pro Bowl year in and year out....who you ask ?..look him up.

Again, putting up great combine numbers doesn not mean you will be great in the NFL. The NFL teams drafts college prospects and hope they turn into solid NFL players. Workout numbers help bring up the stock of these prospects but not all of the players pan out. This is why we have busts.

Did I suggest he was ? No, in fact I've said NUMBEROUS times on here that Mario is the better prospect at this time before the draft

And again, I ask why would you have Jamaal Anderson coming off the board as if he were every bit as good as Mario Williams when by your own admission he is not.

In fact Anderson being over 2 inches shorter will give him an advantage (leverage)

You think the fact that Anderson is two inches shorter will give him better leverage? Have you ever taken a physics class in your life. Height and wingspan help give you leverage against OL and help you keep separation from them to get by blocks and make plays.

as well as I believe his inside moves are BETTER at this point than Mario's were. Mario was an outside speed rusher with 1 move. Anderson has at least 3 effective techniques in which I expect him to be able to contribute MORE than what Williams was able to do with the Texans.

Now you are adding even more fire to my case. You talk about how similar Anderson and Mario are but here you go admitting that they are two different players. Mario is a better pure pass rusher then Anderson. Anderson is better at eating blocks. Mario plays better outside, Anderson plays better inside. They are different in term of style of play as well as in terms of measureables.

He was never "on a different level as a prospect" your blowing smoke around here...he was projected to go 5 to Green Bay until Houston shocked the world and took him over Bush 1 day before the draft.

I said on a different level as compared to Jamaal Anderson. Plus the fact Mario was considered a lock top five pick last season. He was predicted to go to either the Saints, Jets, or GB. Jamaal Anderson, hasn't been projected any higher then number 6 to the Redskins for some time now and he is usualy predicted at number 7 to the Vikes or number 10 to the Falcons.

In fact , it's pretty safe to say that they're virtually the SAME player (for the most part) so go grab some t.p. wipe your tongue and stop **** talkin on here.

Oh no, Big Boy had to start using his big words now. How you can said Mario Williams and Jamaal Anderson are the same player after just telling me how Mario is better outside and Anderson is better inside is beyond me. Plus the fact you clearly missed the point that measureables help bring up your status as a prospect and the Mario's measureables are clearly better then Anderson's. And before you go complaining even more. Remember, you brought up the numbers, not me. I merely used then to show you the flaws in your analysis of the two prospects.

I've said NUMBEROUS times on here that Mario is the better prospect.
it's pretty safe to say that they're virtually the SAME player

I know I already posted these eariler but I figured i'd put them together to show the lack of logic in your post. You contradict yourself blatantly. If you say Mario is a better prospect then how can you think they are the same player? Explain that one please.

Severe Punishment

03-21-2007, 01:21 PM

When talking about prospects. Height is a big deal. We are not discussing who we think will be a better player. We were discussing prospects. Its two completely different things. Mario being two inches taller is a huge difference. Two inches could be the difference between a ball knocked down at the line instead of a completed pass. Not to mention taller players usually have bigger wingspans which is huge for a DE because it allows them to use their arms to stay further away from OL and get by blocks easier. For as much junk as you talk. You shoudl realize this.
Height CAN be a big deal however for DE's it's not a neccessity.. and when discussing edge players height is often overlooked where speed is the big # that people look for. Honestly , Batted balls really are more associated with DT's and have little inclussion for DE's who play on the outside. What difference is height (not wingspan) going to do for a QB who looks to that side around 20% of all passing plays. An edge rusher on the line or at LB really has NO bearing on the amount of windows he closes down simply because of how they play. Going around the tackles opens up more of the field....I'm not sure you understand football at all with a statement like this. height and wingspan are not correlative.

Again. We are not talking about who is a better player or will have a better career. We are talking about better prospects. Bench presses and vert go into making players better prospects and they are taken into account by NFL people.
No, they don't. They assess how strong a prospect is and how high they can jump. This has NOTHING to do with who will have a better career. They do these tests to make sure that a prospect is without major flaws.
The tests they have them do have ZERO correlation on results. So save the B.S. NFL execs want to make sure before they pick a guy and give him good money that they aren't just guys that "look good in pads" but
that they're athletic. These stupid little tests only justify it to them.

Now you are getting to bashing for now reason. Read the quote above. Now look back. It was you my friend that brought up numbers and measurables. Not me. I merely used your numbers to show how wrong you are in your analysis these players.
PRODUCTION is not MEASUREABLES. You're trying to use measureables as a defense for production. When clearly it isn't. Similar production by Jammal, when he measured below Williams, means one of 2 things. Williams relies on physical abilities to make plays or Jammal is BETTER at doing the other things neccessary (other than rush the edge) in order to make plays. Williams was NOT a "lock" top 5 player..but I'll get to that later.

You keep saying that the reason Jamaal Anderson doesn't bench as much as Mario Williams is because he weighs less. That is 100 percent false. He weighs less because he is 2 inches shorter. Jamaal Anderson doesn't bench as much as Mario Williams because he plain and simple isn't as strong as Mario Williams.
No , physics major ...height and bench have NOTHING to do with one another ...unless they started benching while standing up. Once you lay down on that bench it's about ARM length, strength, and will. I said he could add 5-10 more pounds of MUSCLE...did you not get this ? NOT weight itself or fat. Mario was STRONGER at the combine, probably because his strength schedule was harder and he might've even been more determined (some guys are weight room rats , some aren't)
This is not to say though that Anderson COULDN'T add upper body muscle. If you've seen him ...you should be able to tell that his upper body isn't as refined..nor as thick as Mario's..yet he still proved he could be productive on the field.

If you established that Mario Williams is a better prospect then Jamaal Anderson, then why are you having Anderson taken this season at almost the same spot as Mario was last season. Mario was viewed by most as the 2nd best prospect behind Reggie Bush. You have Jamaal Anderson going ahead of better prospects such as Joe Thomas and Calvin Johnson. If you admit Anderson isn't as good as prospect, then why do you project him to be picked as if he were just as good a prospect?
Oh I don't know...perhaps top 10 is BETTER overall than this years ??? Think THAT might have a little something to do with it ? And FYI A.J. Hawk and D'Brickashaw Ferguson were BOTH considered top prospects last year at various times during the season. Both however were
considered to be "less of a prospect" than Reggie Bush. There was NOONE who beleived Mario Williams was the 2nd best player in that draft on draft day...and let's be honest, he hasn't done anything to alter those perceptions. Houston drafted Mario because of NEEEEEED and value. They had the top pick and knew they could address other areas with their other top round picks. I have him going behind "better prospects" because the NFL is a buisness. In the buisness you don't just take the BPA without taking into consideration what your team has, where it is in terms of development...depth and skill level. Another factor is how many picks do you have and how many chances can you afford to take.
Cleveland has had a top 10 pick in quite a few drafts over the past decade, so has Detroit. EVENTUALLY you'd think that they might be able to figure out that taking the "better prospects" doesn't translate to team success unless you address the weaknesses of your team as well (or first)
EX.1 in 2003 Cleveland took K2 in the first round (6th overall) and Detroit took Mike Williams (7th overall) now as "nice" as these guys have been for them (and to take your notion that you always take the higher rated player) they have done very little to help team performance. how do I know that ? because the very next year (2004) Cleveland picked 3rd and Detroit picked 10th. What'd they do ? Well they totally disregarded logic and reason and AGAIN took the "BPA" according to all those measureables and selected Braylon Edwards and Mike Williams respectively.
How'd that fair for them ? Both AGAIN finished with poor enough records that neither selected higher than 13th. (Detroit AGAIN was picking top 10) and where do they pick this year ? ...that's right. So EVENTUALLY teams do learn that you don't take guys who play premier positions and you don't win by taking the offensive "studs" in the draft. You do it by taking STUD lineman (as evident by both the JETS and TEXANS last year)
SOOOOO the reasoning for Anderson to Detroit is simple. Millen finally pulled his head out of the sand and figured out last year that having a defense is as important as putting together a fantasy lineup , when it comes to NFL success and took Ernie Simms....he MUST add to that by taking the best COMPLETE DE in this years draft in order to build a winner.
Losing Dre' Bly only cements this selection for me (though it doesn't matter where Detroit takes him) and if they trade down to far (and Williams is gone) they'll take one of the DT's. Thomas makes very little sense considering they just traded for a RT and have given buku money to Bakus.

J.A. played on overall better defenses and teams then any of the teams Mario ever played for so that point in moot. Each player had their advantages and disadvantages as far as theri teams were concerned. Wrong. J.A. did NOT play on "overall better defensive teams"
What exactly are you basing this on ? I've already used HISTORY to show that 2 other Wolfpack DEFENSIVE players were taken within the first round last year. INCLUDING another D-LINEMAN. Seriously, stop trying to hide behind #'s because you really don't have a leg to stand on here.

Did you miss the part where Mario had almost 10 more plays for a loss his junior season and over 30 more plays for a loss for the course of their careers? You keep saying the numbers where every bit as good but yet the numbers you brought up clearly show that Mario put up better numbers. And did you miss the part where J.A. was DOUBLE TEAMED more often ? I'm not sure how this is that hard to understand.
Teams HAD to defense against more than just Mario when McCargo and Manny were there. the careers part is suspect too because Mario started his Sophomore year...Anderson did not. But this had to do with talent that preceeded them. Pretty simple to understand if you ask me.
And you use the last seasons they played as a REFERENCE to how similar their EFFECT was. Good lord, do you need a picture book ?

Again. You are missing the point. We are discussing who is a better prospect, not who is a better player. For Example, Tony Mandrich was considered a better prospect then Orlando Pace. Yet, Orlando Pace is a better player. What Maro Williams did in the NFL has no influence on how good of a prospect he was when he came out of college. You failed to realize that having a vertical leap 8 inches more then another player, helps make you a better prospect. Not nessecarily a better player. NFL scouts draft the best prospects and hope that the prospects they draft can translate into the NFL level.
No, you're CREATING things in order to try and prove your point. Tony Mandrich was NEVER the prospect Orlando Pace was....seriously, you come off looking like a habitual liar on here. Please show me ANYTHING (hell at this point I'd take a homemade website) as some sort of proof where Mandarich was EVER considered the prospect Pace was considering Pace went 8 YEARS later....holy crap. Talk about making one of the dumbest comments to EVER show up on a draft website....ya know what ? I'm going to salute this sort of crap by putting it in my sig for a few months. thanks.

You see a pattern because there is a pattern. Again, you brought up the numbers, not me. I merely pointed out that there was a huge difference in the numbers between the two prospects while you think the fact Mario has better numbers across the board means nothing.
The pattern I see is you lying to justify ANYTHING you want because you have trouble admitting you're wrong. Not only that you've shown a good deal of knowledge for your own Dolphins and their needs this year...other than that...your football knowledge is either made up or a baseless opinion.

Again, putting up great combine numbers doesn not mean you will be great in the NFL. The NFL teams drafts college prospects and hope they turn into solid NFL players. Workout numbers help bring up the stock of these prospects but not all of the players pan out. This is why we have busts.
Holy crap ! you finally said something worth reading. Combine results don't translate into being a decent pro...so teams then MUST not rank their boards based off results. Huh, I beleive that's the point I've been making all along for why Anderson will end up in Detroit. I guess Thanks for agreeing with me ...in a weird way.

And again, I ask why would you have Jamaal Anderson coming off the board as if he were every bit as good as Mario Williams when by your own admission he is not.
BECAUSE HE is the perfect player to a team that has a horrible D-line ...something they've had for as long as I can remember. It has NOTHING to do with him being the best prospect on the board (though I've shown exactly HOW similar they are and subsequently how valuable DE's are in the league). It's really easy to figure out.
Drop your ego for 2 seconds and just think about it.

You think the fact that Anderson is two inches shorter will give him better leverage? Have you ever taken a physics class in your life. Height and wingspan help give you leverage against OL and help you keep separation from them to get by blocks and make plays.
Let me put together 2 words to make this simpler for you. Fulcrum point.
I won't bother even talking about hip width, explossion, arm strength, technique or motor. Clearly to you Shawn Bradley and Manute Bol would've been locks for the HOF had they only suited up and played end. :rolleyes:

Now you are adding even more fire to my case. You talk about how similar Anderson and Mario are but here you go admitting that they are two different players. Mario is a better pure pass rusher then Anderson. Anderson is better at eating blocks. Mario plays better outside, Anderson plays better inside. They are different in term of style of play as well as in terms of measureables.
Fuel to your fire ? Unless I made some statement about Anderson being some clone of Williams this statement of nonsense should probably be avoided by anyone who doesn't wish to lose 5 points from their I.Q.

I said on a different level as compared to Jamaal Anderson. Plus the fact Mario was considered a lock top five pick last season. He was predicted to go to either the Saints, Jets, or GB. Jamaal Anderson, hasn't been projected any higher then number 6 to the Redskins for some time now and he is usualy predicted at number 7 to the Vikes or number 10 to the Falcons.

Top 5 "lock" ??? He was considered AT BEST to go to Green bay at 5.
Lock my dyin ass. The Saints were going to take AJ (which was known before hand and later addmitted by their front office) until Houston "shocked" the world and signed Williams 2 days before the draft.
The Jets had NO intentions of taking him over Brick and Tennesee has NO intentions of taking anything but QB. Green Bay was the pick everyone had him at. So again, take the b.s. and flush it all away.
With a week to go before the draft....everyone should have a better understanding of where players will go. Okoye and Anderson by then should be on EVERYONE's board for top 6.

Oh no, Big Boy had to start using his big words now. How you can said Mario Williams and Jamaal Anderson are the same player after just telling me how Mario is better outside and Anderson is better inside is beyond me. Plus the fact you clearly missed the point that measureables help bring up your status as a prospect and the Mario's measureables are clearly better then Anderson's. And before you go complaining even more. Remember, you brought up the numbers, not me. I merely used then to show you the flaws in your analysis of the two prospects.

Really ? Or is this just your ego WANTING to believe you're right ?
Yeah, I've shown that Anderson had SIMILAR production to Williams for their Junior seasons (both their last) despite Anderson not playing on a team as talented as Mario's. I've already said that Mario had better combine #'s ...but in an area that really doesn't effect DE's (vert) and the area where it does (strength) said that Anderson has room in his own body to gain more muscle.

You've given your opinion , then called it fact. Nothing more.

I know I already posted these eariler but I figured i'd put them together to show the lack of logic in your post. You contradict yourself blatantly. If you say Mario is a better prospect then how can you think they are the same player? Explain that one please.
I said SIMILAR....in terms of production. Seriously , perhaps after your physics class you might want to take a seat in the reading comprehension class next door.

zjstratton

03-21-2007, 01:24 PM

anderson isn't going #2 to the lions, with quinn, peterson, johnson and thomas on the board, they will end up taking one of these guys

Severe Punishment

03-21-2007, 01:43 PM

We shall see.

Joeyjr09

03-21-2007, 02:48 PM

Height CAN be a big deal however for DE's it's not a neccessity.. and when discussing edge players height is often overlooked where speed is the big # that people look for. Honestly , Batted balls really are more associated with DT's and have little inclussion for DE's who play on the outside. What difference is height (not wingspan) going to do for a QB who looks to that side around 20% of all passing plays. An edge rusher on the line or at LB really has NO bearing on the amount of windows he closes down simply because of how they play. Going around the tackles opens up more of the field....I'm not sure you understand football at all with a statement like this. height and wingspan are not correlative.

No, they don't. They assess how strong a prospect is and how high they can jump. This has NOTHING to do with who will have a better career. They do these tests to make sure that a prospect is without major flaws.
The tests they have them do have ZERO correlation on results. So save the B.S. NFL execs want to make sure before they pick a guy and give him good money that they aren't just guys that "look good in pads" but
that they're athletic. These stupid little tests only justify it to them.

PRODUCTION is not MEASUREABLES. You're trying to use measureables as a defense for production. When clearly it isn't. Similar production by Jammal, when he measured below Williams, means one of 2 things. Williams relies on physical abilities to make plays or Jammal is BETTER at doing the other things neccessary (other than rush the edge) in order to make plays. Williams was NOT a "lock" top 5 player..but I'll get to that later.

No , physics major ...height and bench have NOTHING to do with one another ...unless they started benching while standing up. Once you lay down on that bench it's about ARM length, strength, and will. I said he could add 5-10 more pounds of MUSCLE...did you not get this ? NOT weight itself or fat. Mario was STRONGER at the combine, probably because his strength schedule was harder and he might've even been more determined (some guys are weight room rats , some aren't)
This is not to say though that Anderson COULDN'T add upper body muscle. If you've seen him ...you should be able to tell that his upper body isn't as refined..nor as thick as Mario's..yet he still proved he could be productive on the field.

Oh I don't know...perhaps top 10 is BETTER overall than this years ??? Think THAT might have a little something to do with it ? And FYI A.J. Hawk and D'Brickashaw Ferguson were BOTH considered top prospects last year at various times during the season. Both however were
considered to be "less of a prospect" than Reggie Bush. There was NOONE who beleived Mario Williams was the 2nd best player in that draft on draft day...and let's be honest, he hasn't done anything to alter those perceptions. Houston drafted Mario because of NEEEEEED and value. They had the top pick and knew they could address other areas with their other top round picks. I have him going behind "better prospects" because the NFL is a buisness. In the buisness you don't just take the BPA without taking into consideration what your team has, where it is in terms of development...depth and skill level. Another factor is how many picks do you have and how many chances can you afford to take.
Cleveland has had a top 10 pick in quite a few drafts over the past decade, so has Detroit. EVENTUALLY you'd think that they might be able to figure out that taking the "better prospects" doesn't translate to team success unless you address the weaknesses of your team as well (or first)
EX.1 in 2003 Cleveland took K2 in the first round (6th overall) and Detroit took Mike Williams (7th overall) now as "nice" as these guys have been for them (and to take your notion that you always take the higher rated player) they have done very little to help team performance. how do I know that ? because the very next year (2004) Cleveland picked 3rd and Detroit picked 10th. What'd they do ? Well they totally disregarded logic and reason and AGAIN took the "BPA" according to all those measureables and selected Braylon Edwards and Mike Williams respectively.
How'd that fair for them ? Both AGAIN finished with poor enough records that neither selected higher than 13th. (Detroit AGAIN was picking top 10) and where do they pick this year ? ...that's right. So EVENTUALLY teams do learn that you don't take guys who play premier positions and you don't win by taking the offensive "studs" in the draft. You do it by taking STUD lineman (as evident by both the JETS and TEXANS last year)
SOOOOO the reasoning for Anderson to Detroit is simple. Millen finally pulled his head out of the sand and figured out last year that having a defense is as important as putting together a fantasy lineup , when it comes to NFL success and took Ernie Simms....he MUST add to that by taking the best COMPLETE DE in this years draft in order to build a winner.
Losing Dre' Bly only cements this selection for me (though it doesn't matter where Detroit takes him) and if they trade down to far (and Williams is gone) they'll take one of the DT's. Thomas makes very little sense considering they just traded for a RT and have given buku money to Bakus.

Wrong. J.A. did NOT play on "overall better defensive teams"
What exactly are you basing this on ? I've already used HISTORY to show that 2 other Wolfpack DEFENSIVE players were taken within the first round last year. INCLUDING another D-LINEMAN. Seriously, stop trying to hide behind #'s because you really don't have a leg to stand on here.

And did you miss the part where J.A. was DOUBLE TEAMED more often ? I'm not sure how this is that hard to understand.
Teams HAD to defense against more than just Mario when McCargo and Manny were there. the careers part is suspect too because Mario started his Sophomore year...Anderson did not. But this had to do with talent that preceeded them. Pretty simple to understand if you ask me.
And you use the last seasons they played as a REFERENCE to how similar their EFFECT was. Good lord, do you need a picture book ?

No, you're CREATING things in order to try and prove your point. Tony Mandrich was NEVER the prospect Orlando Pace was....seriously, you come off looking like a habitual liar on here. Please show me ANYTHING (hell at this point I'd take a homemade website) as some sort of proof where Mandarich was EVER considered the prospect Pace was considering Pace went 8 YEARS later....holy crap. Talk about making one of the dumbest comments to EVER show up on a draft website....ya know what ? I'm going to salute this sort of crap by putting it in my sig for a few months. thanks.

The pattern I see is you lying to justify ANYTHING you want because you have trouble admitting you're wrong. Not only that you've shown a good deal of knowledge for your own Dolphins and their needs this year...other than that...your football knowledge is either made up or a baseless opinion.

Holy crap ! you finally said something worth reading. Combine results don't translate into being a decent pro...so teams then MUST not rank their boards based off results. Huh, I beleive that's the point I've been making all along for why Anderson will end up in Detroit. I guess Thanks for agreeing with me ...in a weird way.

BECAUSE HE is the perfect player to a team that has a horrible D-line ...something they've had for as long as I can remember. It has NOTHING to do with him being the best prospect on the board (though I've shown exactly HOW similar they are and subsequently how valuable DE's are in the league). It's really easy to figure out.
Drop your ego for 2 seconds and just think about it.

Let me put together 2 words to make this simpler for you. Fulcrum point.
I won't bother even talking about hip width, explossion, arm strength, technique or motor. Clearly to you Shawn Bradley and Manute Bol would've been locks for the HOF had they only suited up and played end. :rolleyes:

Fuel to your fire ? Unless I made some statement about Anderson being some clone of Williams this statement of nonsense should probably be avoided by anyone who doesn't wish to lose 5 points from their I.Q.

Top 5 "lock" ??? He was considered AT BEST to go to Green bay at 5.
Lock my dyin ass. The Saints were going to take AJ (which was known before hand and later addmitted by their front office) until Houston "shocked" the world and signed Williams 2 days before the draft.
The Jets had NO intentions of taking him over Brick and Tennesee has NO intentions of taking anything but QB. Green Bay was the pick everyone had him at. So again, take the b.s. and flush it all away.
With a week to go before the draft....everyone should have a better understanding of where players will go. Okoye and Anderson by then should be on EVERYONE's board for top 6.

Really ? Or is this just your ego WANTING to believe you're right ?
Yeah, I've shown that Anderson had SIMILAR production to Williams for their Junior seasons (both their last) despite Anderson not playing on a team as talented as Mario's. I've already said that Mario had better combine #'s ...but in an area that really doesn't effect DE's (vert) and the area where it does (strength) said that Anderson has room in his own body to gain more muscle.

You've given your opinion , then called it fact. Nothing more.

I said SIMILAR....in terms of production. Seriously , perhaps after your physics class you might want to take a seat in the reading comprehension class next door.

Your post is way too long for me to go after each point. And besides the fact, it's worthless because you have absolutely no understanding of anything I said. You keep bringing up the point that measureables don't equal production. WE ALL KNOW THAT!!!

Measureables help up your stock as a prospect and the better prospect you are, the higher you are to get drafted. It doesn't mean you will be a better player. NFL people draft prospects and hope the prospects pan out into good players. Measureables help make you a better prospect. We were discussing the prospect status of JA and Mario, not who will be a better player.

I said this more then 3 times in the last post just to make sure I got my point across and yet you still completely missed it and rambled about other mess.

You make the point that height and bench have nothing to do with each other. And your right, but again you completely missed the point of my post.

You said part of the reason JA didnt bench as much as Mario was because JA is 6 pounds less. I said no, the reason JA is 6 pounds less is because he is 2 inches shorter. JA is falt out not as strong as Mario Williams.

And let me finish this up here. You stated height is not important for a DE? They why do teams take undersized DEs and turn them into LBs? Because they are too small to handle DE in the NFL level. Height lets you play with leverage against OTs. IF you really think Height is not a big factor for DEs then I have no idea why you even pretend to be on a NFL draft message board, and act like you know what you are talking about.

Severe Punishment

03-21-2007, 03:01 PM

6'5 versus 6'7 isn't that big a deal. 6'1 or 6'2 compared to 6'5 is.

I'm done responding to someone who pretends their opinions are facts....btw, like my new sig ?

Joeyjr09

03-21-2007, 05:05 PM

I'm done responding to someone who pretends their opinions are facts

And you haven't been arguing the entire time that Jamaal Anderson is a similar player to Mario Williams as is it was fact?

BTW...I love the sig, glad to see my ideas posted for everyone to see. And if you ask anyone, they will agree with me.

pickles

03-21-2007, 05:10 PM

Decent 1st round, would much rather have Willis.

Horrable 2nd round, I wouldn't draft Ginn unless he fell to the 3rd, give us Harris or Anthony Spencer.

3rd, we are pretty full at SS, we do need a FS though, I would go with Paul Williams WR

Severe Punishment

03-21-2007, 07:54 PM

And you haven't been arguing the entire time that Jamaal Anderson is a similar player to Mario Williams as is it was fact?

BTW...I love the sig, glad to see my ideas posted for everyone to see. And if you ask anyone, they will agree with me.
hahahaha...if you believe that this is in anyway something you should be proud of then maybe you need to re-read it.

jackalope

03-21-2007, 07:56 PM

excellent Packer's draft. that's basically how i want our first day to go.

Joeyjr09

03-21-2007, 10:28 PM

hahahaha...if you believe that this is in anyway something you should be proud of then maybe you need to re-read it.

I did read it again and it makes perfect sense. Do you need me to explain?

When Tony Mandrich was coming out of college and he was projected as to be the best OT PROSPECT ever and thought to have a bright NFL future. He was a top PROSPECT.

A guy like Tra Thomas on the other hand, was a solid PROSPECT being taken in the 1st round in 1998, but he was no where near the same level of a PROSPECT as Tony Mandrich. So Mandrich was considered a better PROSPECT then Thomas.

Yet we all know now that Tony Manrich went on to be a bust and out of the NFL within a handful of years. He was not a good PLAYER. Tra Thomas on the other hand, has had a long career and been to the Pro Bowl. Tra Thomas is a great PLAYER. Thomas is a better PLAYER then Mandrich.

Did I spell that on to you enough there? Tony Mandrich was a better PROSPECT but Thomas was a better PLAYER.

Similar to Mario and Jamaal Anderson. Mario is the better PROSPECT. It's still a long time before we can evaluate which becomes the better NFL PLAYER. Hopefully I spelled it out well enough for you.

Severe Punishment

03-22-2007, 12:37 PM

No, what you did was say that mandarich was the better pro prospect coming out of college than Orlando pace....who was selected 8 years later.

Why not suggest that David Harris is the better pro prospect than some kid in 5th grade while your at it.

Joeyjr09

03-22-2007, 03:41 PM

No, what you did was say that mandarich was the better pro prospect coming out of college than Orlando pace....who was selected 8 years later.

I don't understand how that changes the fact that Tony Mandrich was still considered a better prospect then Orlando Pace.

Babe Ruth played decades ago and he is still considered the best baseball player ever no matter how many years ago it was.

Plus 8 years? Are you joking? Mandrich was supposed to have a 15 year NFL career. He should have still been playing even when Pace came into the league. Fact is Mandrich was considered a better prospect then Pace and yet Pace still turned out to be a better player.

Was that clear enough for you?

TheChampIsHere

03-22-2007, 03:44 PM

you say there arent enough quality mocks here and then put this out? I saw Jamaal Anderson at 2 and stopped reading

remix 6

03-22-2007, 06:49 PM

great Patriots but Troy Smith to us in round 3? we have Brady and a guy who will step in when he needs to.

Jay

03-22-2007, 06:52 PM

Yeah, I don't mind Ross and Beason, but TROY SMITH?!?! Makes no sense at all...

Severe Punishment

03-23-2007, 01:05 PM

I don't understand how that changes the fact that Tony Mandrich was still considered a better prospect then Orlando Pace.

Babe Ruth played decades ago and he is still considered the best baseball player ever no matter how many years ago it was.

Plus 8 years? Are you joking? Mandrich was supposed to have a 15 year NFL career. He should have still been playing even when Pace came into the league. Fact is Mandrich was considered a better prospect then Pace and yet Pace still turned out to be a better player.

Was that clear enough for you?
You're completely not getting this. You said "Tony Mandarich was considered a better prospect THAN Orlando Pace"
Seriously, do I have to SPELL THIS OUT REAAAALY SLOW or something ?
How is this ...you didn't say "As prospects Orlando Pace was GRADED lower than Mandarich" you compared the 2....and incorrectly, you tried to tie the 2 together using the guy who came out first to compare to a guy who was in 6th grade when Mandarich was drafted. You've shown to be nothing on here but a clown and bully. and an ignorant one at that.

Severe Punishment

03-23-2007, 01:08 PM

Severe Punishment

03-23-2007, 01:09 PM

you say there arent enough quality mocks here and then put this out? I saw Jamaal Anderson at 2 and stopped reading
I've seen your mock. And unlike yours I don't make picks based on
FANS of other teams screaming at me , I make it on fit, prospect value and who I believe they'll take.
Don't like it ? great ...love it ? great...just don't tell me you read down to #2 and can fairly evaluate a 3 round draft that way.

draftguru151

03-23-2007, 02:26 PM

Anderson really doesn't work for the Lions. If they take a DE at 2 it will be Gaines Adams. Anderson's stock isn't that high and he isn't a good fit in Detriot's defense.

As far as the Orlando Pace/Mandarich thing, Pace was the better prospect.

Jay

03-23-2007, 02:48 PM

Patriots draft BPA ...they have a HOF QB on their roster and who ?
They can't avoid this backup spot forever...Brady Won't play forever and injuries happen. They're very likely to draft a day 1 QB....and unless you're Bill Billacek himself...you are under no authority to say the Pats "won't". For all you know they could have a deal in the works to trade up to #2 overall to take Brady Quinn.

Yes, they can avoid the backup spot forever. That's why we have Matt Cassel. That's why we signed Vinny Testeverde. That's why we'll sign some other cast off to handle the clipboard if Vinny T decides to hang them up. That's why we had Doug Flutie, and Damon Huard. That's why Tom Brady backed up Drew Bledsoe. That's why Bledsoe had Scott Zolak.

No need for a Troy Smith, at all. No need for ANY QB on day one. Brady Quinn could be there in round three and they still wouldn't take him. It's not happening. Maybe Troy Smith in the seventh, but that's it. The third is too early for a QB.

It's a bad pick. Actually, a horrible pick. You don't need to get all defensive about it and pull the "no authority" card, I do have authority enough to say there is no possible way the Patriots take a QB in round three. It's simply not happening. They love Cassel and have another five or more years left in Brady. The last time the Patriots took a day one QB was Drew Bledsoe, and that was only because he was the lock at #1.

As a matter of fact:

Tom Brady (6)
Michael Bishop (7)
Rohan Davey (4)
Jay Walker (7)
Cliff Kingsbury (6)
Matt Cassel (7)

Those are the QB's they've drafted since they drafted Drew Bledsoe #1 overall in 1993. That's 13 drafts and only 6 QB's taken, and only ONE earlier that round six, and NONE on the first day. So yeah, they seem pretty intent on avoiding QB. Their bread and butter has been trying to develop late round QB's, why would they change now when they have Tom Brady in his prime and a guy that they think is the next Matt Schaub in Matt Cassel?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it was a bad pick. Sorry.

Joeyjr09

03-23-2007, 08:27 PM

You're completely not getting this. You said "Tony Mandarich was considered a better prospect THAN Orlando Pace"
Seriously, do I have to SPELL THIS OUT REAAAALY SLOW or something ?
How is this ...you didn't say "As prospects Orlando Pace was GRADED lower than Mandarich" you compared the 2....and incorrectly, you tried to tie the 2 together using the guy who came out first to compare to a guy who was in 6th grade when Mandarich was drafted. You've shown to be nothing on here but a clown and bully. and an ignorant one at that.

Doesn't saying Pace graded out lower the Mandrich imply that Mandrich as indeed a better prospect? Same idea, different wording.

Plus, 8 years isn't all that long. Theres guy that have 15-20 year NFL career. If I were to compare a guy from the 1960's to a guy from the 2000's then I would understand where your coming from but comparing a guy drafted in the early 1990's to a guy drafted in the late 1990s is not that big a deal.

JaMarcus Russell has been compared to Daunte Culpepper. They are 8 years apart as well. Brady Quinn has been compared to Trent Green, they are 15 years apart.

You arguement hold no water as comparisions between players 8 years apart happen all the time in the NFL and as as prospects. Fact remains that Tony Mandrich was considered a better prospect when he came out then Orlando Pace was when he came out.

Severe Punishment

03-23-2007, 09:43 PM

RaiderNation

03-23-2007, 09:49 PM

cant complain about the raider draft

Severe Punishment

03-23-2007, 10:38 PM

Dude, change your sig line it should say Al Davis has WON 3 S.B.'s..not one.

Thanks for the response.

Joeyjr09

03-24-2007, 10:07 AM

I don't understand how you're still missing the point.

You use the Russell to Culpepper comparisson which is fine...you don't however compare Russell to some kid in grade school. Which is what you did by saying Mandarich was compared to Pace when Mandarich came out.

Dude, Mandrich was not compared to Pace at the time Mandrich came out. But, now both have already come out, so we can compare and see that Mandrich was a better prospect when he came out then when Pace came out. Is it really that hard to understand?

Use a little common sense here dude. Of course we can't say Mandrich was better then Pace the year Mandrich came out. But now we can look at when both came out and see that Mandrich is a better prospect.

Severe Punishment

03-24-2007, 01:12 PM

That's my entire point. The way you said it suggested that Mandarich wasn't as good a prospect when Mandarich came out.

Joeyjr09

03-26-2007, 03:04 PM

That's my entire point. The way you said it suggested that Mandarich wasn't as good a prospect when Mandarich came out.

Does that even make sense. I think you meant to have Orlando Pace in there. Besides if you can't figure that I was comparing them at the times they each came out they maybe you need to go back up grade school.