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Merlin
03-19-2007, 02:36 PM
With all the speculation around Detroit trading out of number #2, would you rather we trade up to take CJ on the day,(if available?) or stay put, and risk losing him?

We have the ammunition to do it, two second round picks (our own, and Indy's) we would need to switch picks with the Lions and send them our second round pick #35 (2B) and our fifth round pick #131 to complete the deal.

I'd be happy to do it, would you?

Xiomera
03-19-2007, 02:37 PM
With all the speculation around Detroit trading out of number #2, would you rather we trade up to take CJ (if available?) or stay put, and risk losing him?

We have the ammunition to do it, two second round picks (our own, and Indy's) we would need to switch picks with the Lions and send them our second round pick #35 (2B) and our fifth round pick #131 to complete the deal.

I'd be happy to do it, would you?

I'd do it.:eek:

TRJ997
03-19-2007, 03:41 PM
I wouldn't be too upset with any scenario that nets us CJ, but we would be missing on a lot of good talent if we trade our 2a pick. Kalil, Merriwether, Ugoh, Charles Johnson, etc. are all guys that could really help our team and could easily be available when we pick. That said, I'm becomming increasingly afraid that neither CJ or JT will be available at 4 . . . and what a bummer that will be.

Caddy
03-19-2007, 03:44 PM
If CJ is still there at #2, chances are he will still be there at #4. Its those damn Raiders we've go to worry about.

Booger
03-19-2007, 03:48 PM
With all the speculation around Detroit trading out of number #2, would you rather we trade up to take CJ on the day,(if available?) or stay put, and risk losing him?

We have the ammunition to do it, two second round picks (our own, and Indy's) we would need to switch picks with the Lions and send them our second round pick #35 (2B) and our fifth round pick #131 to complete the deal.

I'd be happy to do it, would you?


No chance. While CJ is a great prospect, I don't think that a WR is worth that much to this team. We have so many holes, one which can be well addressed with the #35 pick.

I would maybe consider trading our 2B (pick #64) to flip spots, but even then it would be tough. Especially given the financial implications of paying a #2 overall pick versus the #4 overall pick.

With all of the love that is getting thrown at the 2 QB's, I am starting to become more confident that one of JT or CJ will be available at #4.

princefielder28
03-19-2007, 03:50 PM
With all the speculation around Detroit trading out of number #2, would you rather we trade up to take CJ on the day,(if available?) or stay put, and risk losing him?

We have the ammunition to do it, two second round picks (our own, and Indy's) we would need to switch picks with the Lions and send them our second round pick #35 (2B) and our fifth round pick #131 to complete the deal.

I'd be happy to do it, would you?

I think Tampa fans would be very staisfied with that trade granted Oakland doesn't take Clavin; which I'm assuming they won't in the end.

Xiomera
03-19-2007, 03:51 PM
If CJ is still there at #2, chances are he will still be there at #4. Its those damn Raiders we've go to worry about.

Detroit IS going to end up trading down . . . I can assure you of that. Who do you think that team that moves up will be after?

etk
03-19-2007, 05:33 PM
I love CJ with all my heart, but we don't need a WR badly enough to give up additional draft picks. We all know that our staff are not going to trade up for him no matter how good he is. We have that extra 2nd to use on positions of need.

-black
03-19-2007, 07:13 PM
we gave up draft picks for Keyshawn
we gave up draft picks for Gruden

THIS is the reason we are so old and needy on defense. we CANNOT aford to trade away any more picks. We need to rebuild this team for now and the future. Or else, in 2 years we will have the worse defense in the league and will be picking top 3 for the next 5 years. 2nd and 3rd round picks are the foundation and building blocks of most good teams and we need them. A potential Pro Bowl Center along with some defensive players that we could snag are alot more important than having CJ

I want CJ, and very badly, but we need to start thinking of alternative drafts because I doubt we will get him....and its not worth it to give away more potential youth for one player

Caddy
03-19-2007, 07:50 PM
we gave up draft picks for Keyshawn
we gave up draft picks for Gruden

THIS is the reason we are so old and needy on defense. we CANNOT aford to trade away any more picks. We need to rebuild this team for now and the future. Or else, in 2 years we will have the worse defense in the league and will be picking top 3 for the next 5 years. 2nd and 3rd round picks are the foundation and building blocks of most good teams and we need them. A potential Pro Bowl Center along with some defensive players that we could snag are alot more important than having CJ

I want CJ, and very badly, but we need to start thinking of alternative drafts because I doubt we will get him....and its not worth it to give away more potential youth for one player


Well Said.

I am as high as anyone on Calvin Johnson but I do not think it is worth throwing away all of our other picks for one great player. We need to rejuvenate on defense and with that extra 2nd rounder that is exactly what we will be able to do.

etk
03-19-2007, 08:08 PM
we gave up draft picks for Keyshawn
we gave up draft picks for Gruden

THIS is the reason we are so old and needy on defense. we CANNOT aford to trade away any more picks. We need to rebuild this team for now and the future. Or else, in 2 years we will have the worse defense in the league and will be picking top 3 for the next 5 years. 2nd and 3rd round picks are the foundation and building blocks of most good teams and we need them. A potential Pro Bowl Center along with some defensive players that we could snag are alot more important than having CJ

I want CJ, and very badly, but we need to start thinking of alternative drafts because I doubt we will get him....and its not worth it to give away more potential youth for one player

I changed my mind, -black for team leader!! :P

Beans
03-19-2007, 08:11 PM
no

ten times no

etk
03-19-2007, 08:13 PM
no

ten times no

Someone likes Okoye a little too much......

Beans
03-19-2007, 08:32 PM
Someone likes Okoye a little too much......

Dude, what the hell? I WOULD LOVE TO SEE CJ ON THE BUCS MORE THAN ANY OTHER PLAYER. What I do NOT want to see is us throw away picks for him when he'll be there at #4 should Oakland not take him.

etk
03-19-2007, 08:40 PM
Dude, what the hell? I WOULD LOVE TO SEE CJ ON THE BUCS MORE THAN ANY OTHER PLAYER. What I do NOT want to see is us throw away picks for him when he'll be there at #4 should Oakland not take him.

Read my first post on this thread....

SARCASM: we had a little discussion on it in another thread,

When I said little I really meant little!

Beans
03-19-2007, 08:52 PM
Read my first post on this thread....

SARCASM: we had a little discussion on it in another thread,

When I said little I really meant little!

Well..................................



whatev

Bucsfan
03-19-2007, 11:09 PM
the only way i would like if we traded up is for Joe Thomas...not CJ, Cause I would rather stay where we are and take the chance of one of them falling to us, if not I say we just stay put and draft Amobi Okoye..why give up something when we can fill a major need either way? Even Gaines Adams...or something..I dont like idea of trading up for any player...unless that player was tom brady or peyton manning...lol

Caddy
03-19-2007, 11:29 PM
the only way i would like if we traded up is for Joe Thomas...not CJ, Cause I would rather stay where we are and take the chance of one of them falling to us, if not I say we just stay put and draft Amobi Okoye..why give up something when we can fill a major need either way? Even Gaines Adams...or something..I dont like idea of trading up for any player...unless that player was tom brady or peyton manning...lol

Do you want to trade up or not?

Booger
03-20-2007, 09:13 AM
the only way i would like if we traded up is for Joe Thomas...not CJ, Cause I would rather stay where we are and take the chance of one of them falling to us, if not I say we just stay put and draft Amobi Okoye..why give up something when we can fill a major need either way? Even Gaines Adams...or something..I dont like idea of trading up for any player...unless that player was tom brady or peyton manning...lol

Another poster who prefers Thomas to CJ, I thought that I was the only one.

-black
03-20-2007, 12:01 PM
Another poster who prefers Thomas to CJ, I thought that I was the only one.

why?

Petitgough, Davis, Kalil, Joseph, Trublood


whats wrong with this OL?

Booger
03-20-2007, 12:25 PM
why?

Petitgough, Davis, Kalil, Joseph, Trublood


whats wrong with this OL?

The same could be said about our receiving corps.

Petitgout = Galloway: injury concerns, older, not the long term solution
Davis = Hilliard: excellent depth and enough experience to start
Joseph = Clayton: recent first round pick, lots of potential, needs help
Trueblood = Stovall: recent day 1 pick, some experience, good upside

The difference is that we need more than 4 or 5 solid or better OL.

If we drafted Thomas, we could go DE in round 2. There has been reports that Thomas could be played at C or G if he cant crack the opening day line-up at LT. Petitgout also has the ability to move inside to guard, and maybe Buenning to C.

Xiomera
03-20-2007, 12:29 PM
The same could be said about our receiving corps.

Petitgout = Galloway: injury concerns, older, not the long term solution
Davis = Hilliard: excellent depth and enough experience to start
Joseph = Clayton: recent first round pick, lots of potential, needs help
Trueblood = Stovall: recent day 1 pick, some experience, good upside

The difference is that we need more than 4 or 5 solid or better OL.

If we drafted Thomas, we could go DE in round 2. There has been reports that Thomas could be played at C or G if he cant crack the opening day line-up at LT. Petitgout also has the ability to move inside to guard, and maybe Buenning to C.

Whoa . . . a top 5 overall pick at Center? I think Thomas would be an instant upgrade over both of your tackles.

Booger
03-20-2007, 12:35 PM
Whoa . . . a top 5 overall pick at Center? I think Thomas would be an instant upgrade over both of your tackles.


I meant for one season. If the Bucs felt more comfortable with Petitgout for the upcoming season at LT, they would still likely want Thomas on the field.

In my opinion, if Thomas were drafted, he would start at LT, with Petitgout at LG. The comment was made for the nay sayers who think that we do not have a need at LT.

-black
03-20-2007, 03:04 PM
The same could be said about our receiving corps.

Petitgout = Galloway: injury concerns, older, not the long term solution
Davis = Hilliard: excellent depth and enough experience to start
Joseph = Clayton: recent first round pick, lots of potential, needs help
Trueblood = Stovall: recent day 1 pick, some experience, good upside

The difference is that we need more than 4 or 5 solid or better OL.

If we drafted Thomas, we could go DE in round 2. There has been reports that Thomas could be played at C or G if he cant crack the opening day line-up at LT. Petitgout also has the ability to move inside to guard, and maybe Buenning to C.

the analogy of comparing our OL to our WR is .....well....

http://www.ncsu.edu/IEEE-RAS/RAS/RASimages/icorr/KineAssist%20reaching%20for%20ballW.jpg


two WR's start, with 2 more being needed for good depth and slot purposes...how does that even contrast with a starting 5 of OL or even the players that we have on our OL.

Caddy
03-20-2007, 03:17 PM
and maybe Buenning to C.

If Buenning did make the move to center he would not start right a way. The learning curve can prove to be quite difficult as moving from guard to center with no prior experience at the position can be very risky.

Booger
03-20-2007, 04:41 PM
two WR's start, with 2 more being needed for good depth and slot purposes...how does that even contrast with a starting 5 of OL or even the players that we have on our OL.

Exactly, even with the group of OL that you mentioned, OL remains a much bigger need on this team than WR. I think that you actually argued that point, as you only need 2 WR's and 5 OL.

My point was simply that a receiving group of Galloway, Clayton, Hilliard, Stovall, Boston, Smith, and Becht is more solid than our group of OL.

Booger
03-20-2007, 04:42 PM
If Buenning did make the move to center he would not start right a way. The learning curve can prove to be quite difficult as moving from guard to center with no prior experience at the position can be very risky.

Fair enough, I had only read a report suggesting that Buenning was capable of playing centre (had the skill set).

etk
03-20-2007, 06:15 PM
I kind of understand those of you who want us to possibly draft Quinn. Things have gotten out of hand now. There is not a single fathomable reason or excuse to prefer Thomas over CJ. I'm just shocked that 2 of you want us to trade up for him. Let's go through the whole situation:

Firstly, before needs are addressed, let's compare prospects: CJ is an almost-flawless rare prospect, that is touted by many to be the greatest WR prospect ever and is one of the most hyped prospects at any position. He has an unbelievable combination of size, strength, speed & production. He is young and has little injury history. Joe Thomas is a typical LT prospect. He's the best of his class, but he has many weaknesses. He has ACL tear history, he is a backbender, he is not overly strong in his upper or lower body. He has great athleticism and footwork, but his pass-blocking technique is not exceptional and D'Brick was a better pass blocker. CJ is a sure-thing, Thomas isn't....

Position-wise, CJ is more of a need. Joey Galloway turns 36 before the end of the season, and he has injury problems. Michael Clayton is a good player and he figures to be a fixture in our offense for years, but he has injury and consistency issues. He has been a virtual non-factor for 2 years and he has caught 1 TD pass in that span. Our offense needs another playmaker and some instant offense. Michael Clayton still holds potential at 24 years old, but he is not starter material at the moment. After those 2, we have little depth. Ike Hilliard is old and lacks skill, his only impact is on 3rd and 5. Maurice Stovall is not ready to be a regular contributor and he is still developing. After those 4, we have fringe players that do nothing more than fill roster spots.

Offensive tackle is a different story. Luke Petitgout was just signed and he brings experience, size and savvy. He was once considered to be a top-tier LT before his broken leg. He is 30 years old and should be a solid starter for at least 2 years. Behind him we have Chris Colmer, a talented 3rd round pick who is overcoming injuries and should be a good starter once Petitgout is finished. Anthony Davis is also in the mix, and he has been our starter at LT for almost 2 full years. He might be moving to G, but the point is that we have 3 solid players at LT already. If Thomas moves to RT, it is even more stupid because we have Jeremy Trueblood, our big, young developing stud on Simms' backside.

So my question for you (Booger & Bucsfan), is do you prioritize drafting a LT over a future superstar WR? Please consider our depth at the position, and also consider the importance of drafting a LT in the top 5 picks when our current and most-likely future QB is left-handed. Also consider the fact that we spent our first 2 picks on offensive-line last year, and our biggest offseason signing has been a LT so far. Our offensive line is building and developing, and we have the right pieces at all positions except C. Our WRs are aging and struggling and we need to add a big playmaker to our offense.

Booger
03-20-2007, 07:10 PM
I kind of understand those of you who want us to possibly draft Quinn. Things have gotten out of hand now. There is not a single fathomable reason or excuse to prefer Thomas over CJ. I'm just shocked that 2 of you want us to trade up for him. Let's go through the whole situation:

Firstly, before needs are addressed, let's compare prospects: CJ is an almost-flawless rare prospect, that is touted by many to be the greatest WR prospect ever and is one of the most hyped prospects at any position. He has an unbelievable combination of size, strength, speed & production. He is young and has little injury history. Joe Thomas is a typical LT prospect. He's the best of his class, but he has many weaknesses. He has ACL tear history, he is a backbender, he is not overly strong in his upper or lower body. He has great athleticism and footwork, but his pass-blocking technique is not exceptional and D'Brick was a better pass blocker. CJ is a sure-thing, Thomas isn't....

Position-wise, CJ is more of a need. Joey Galloway turns 36 before the end of the season, and he has injury problems. Michael Clayton is a good player and he figures to be a fixture in our offense for years, but he has injury and consistency issues. He has been a virtual non-factor for 2 years and he has caught 1 TD pass in that span. Our offense needs another playmaker and some instant offense. Michael Clayton still holds potential at 24 years old, but he is not starter material at the moment. After those 2, we have little depth. Ike Hilliard is old and lacks skill, his only impact is on 3rd and 5. Maurice Stovall is not ready to be a regular contributor and he is still developing. After those 4, we have fringe players that do nothing more than fill roster spots.

Offensive tackle is a different story. Luke Petitgout was just signed and he brings experience, size and savvy. He was once considered to be a top-tier LT before his broken leg. He is 30 years old and should be a solid starter for at least 2 years. Behind him we have Chris Colmer, a talented 3rd round pick who is overcoming injuries and should be a good starter once Petitgout is finished. Anthony Davis is also in the mix, and he has been our starter at LT for almost 2 full years. He might be moving to G, but the point is that we have 3 solid players at LT already. If Thomas moves to RT, it is even more stupid because we have Jeremy Trueblood, our big, young developing stud on Simms' backside.

So my question for you (Booger & Bucsfan), is do you prioritize drafting a LT over a future superstar WR? Please consider our depth at the position, and also consider the importance of drafting a LT in the top 5 picks when our current and most-likely future QB is left-handed. Also consider the fact that we spent our first 2 picks on offensive-line last year, and our biggest offseason signing has been a LT so far. Our offensive line is building and developing, and we have the right pieces at all positions except C. Our WRs are aging and struggling and we need to add a big playmaker to our offense.

I never said that we should trade up for Thomas, but yes I would take him over CJ.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one, but I will do my best to respond to your post.

It is clear that you see CJ as a once and a lifetime prospect and Joe Thomas as the best OT in a poor draft class. In my opinion, you are over hyped about CJ, and will find very little support for your thoughts on Thomas.

While I anticipate that CJ will make an outstanding pro player, he hasnt played a snap in the pros. Add that to the fact that he is a WR, wherein he touches the ball 5 times a game. While CJ will marginally improve our rushing attack by being on the field, if you cant protect the QB and give him time to pass, what's the point of having a CJ type player? Defenses will soon figure out that you cant run and you cant protect the QB. But CJ is as close to a sure things as there is in this draft, I'll give you that.

Again, we disagree on the Bucs need for a WR versus need for an OT. I see our recieving core of Galloway, Clayton, Hilliard, Stovall, Boston, Smith, and Becht as solid. I understand that Galloway and Hilliard are near the end, and that Clayton and Stovall are by no means proven. The thing about WR is that great WR's change teams all the time, and become available on a yearly basis.

When was the last time that you saw a "franchise" LT available? Players like Ogden, Pace, Jones, etc. generally play for one team their entire careers. Is Thomas in that same class of player, maybe or maybe not (i know you will say that he is not).

Our tackle situation is bleak, with Trueblood at RT, Petitgout at LT, and Anthony Davis and Torrin Tucker as back-ups. By all accounts, Colmer is done for his career. Tucker is not a starter, Davis is a below average starter, Trueblood is an unproven player (although played quite well at times last season), and Petitgout is 30+ years old coming off a major injury. Aging and struggling are also adjectives to describe our OT's.

And once again, we disagree on Simms being the future QB on this team, therefore we value a LT much differently.

So yes, I do prioritize a LT over a WR. The overall impact of a franchise LT is greater than that of a franchise WR. Is Joe Thomas a true franchise LT? Is CJ much more than just a great WR? We dont know either of those answers right now.

-black
03-20-2007, 07:22 PM
logically it does not make sense to draft a LT with our first pick. ETK basically summed up everything perfectly so there is not much to say. our entire right side is young and talented(1st and 2nd round picks) and if we go C with a 1st day pick(like I believe we will) that would be three OL with less than 2 years of experience. On the left side we would have a very solid LT that is battle tested, so we know what we will get. People hate on Davis, but he has been a very solid OT, he just has struggled a bit with speed rushers. He'd make an outstanding LG, which gives us a young, talented, yet still veteran lef offensive line. Joe Thomas only a piece that does not make sense with our free agent signing.

CJ provides more of an impact than Joe Thomas would....and please, do not put JT in the category of Orlando Pace, Tony Boseli, Jon Odgen, ect because he is not (prospect wise).

and your satisfied with a WR core of

Galloway
Ike Hilliard
Michael Clayton
and Maurice Stovall???

With what we have, and what is available, it would be absolutely rediculous and we'd be idiots to go after Joe Thomas over CJ. If CJ is gone, we better go defense because we dont need a OT....we need a C..

magicfan39126
03-20-2007, 07:37 PM
I kind of understand those of you who want us to possibly draft Quinn. Things have gotten out of hand now. There is not a single fathomable reason or excuse to prefer Thomas over CJ. I'm just shocked that 2 of you want us to trade up for him. Let's go through the whole situation:

Firstly, before needs are addressed, let's compare prospects: CJ is an almost-flawless rare prospect, that is touted by many to be the greatest WR prospect ever and is one of the most hyped prospects at any position. He has an unbelievable combination of size, strength, speed & production. He is young and has little injury history. Joe Thomas is a typical LT prospect. He's the best of his class, but he has many weaknesses. He has ACL tear history, he is a backbender, he is not overly strong in his upper or lower body. He has great athleticism and footwork, but his pass-blocking technique is not exceptional and D'Brick was a better pass blocker. CJ is a sure-thing, Thomas isn't....

Position-wise, CJ is more of a need. Joey Galloway turns 36 before the end of the season, and he has injury problems. Michael Clayton is a good player and he figures to be a fixture in our offense for years, but he has injury and consistency issues. He has been a virtual non-factor for 2 years and he has caught 1 TD pass in that span. Our offense needs another playmaker and some instant offense. Michael Clayton still holds potential at 24 years old, but he is not starter material at the moment. After those 2, we have little depth. Ike Hilliard is old and lacks skill, his only impact is on 3rd and 5. Maurice Stovall is not ready to be a regular contributor and he is still developing. After those 4, we have fringe players that do nothing more than fill roster spots.

Offensive tackle is a different story. Luke Petitgout was just signed and he brings experience, size and savvy. He was once considered to be a top-tier LT before his broken leg. He is 30 years old and should be a solid starter for at least 2 years. Behind him we have Chris Colmer, a talented 3rd round pick who is overcoming injuries and should be a good starter once Petitgout is finished. Anthony Davis is also in the mix, and he has been our starter at LT for almost 2 full years. He might be moving to G, but the point is that we have 3 solid players at LT already. If Thomas moves to RT, it is even more stupid because we have Jeremy Trueblood, our big, young developing stud on Simms' backside.

So my question for you (Booger & Bucsfan), is do you prioritize drafting a LT over a future superstar WR? Please consider our depth at the position, and also consider the importance of drafting a LT in the top 5 picks when our current and most-likely future QB is left-handed. Also consider the fact that we spent our first 2 picks on offensive-line last year, and our biggest offseason signing has been a LT so far. Our offensive line is building and developing, and we have the right pieces at all positions except C. Our WRs are aging and struggling and we need to add a big playmaker to our offense.

LT is arguabley the second most important position in football and probably the hardest to fill. WRs can be gotten late, LTs NEVER can be.

A great LT makes much more of a positive impact than does a great WR.

And just so you know: NOBODY is a sure thing.

Reggie Bush was supposed to be Gayle Sayers.

etk
03-20-2007, 08:05 PM
LT is arguabley the second most important position in football and probably the hardest to fill. WRs can be gotten late, LTs NEVER can be.

A great LT makes much more of a positive impact than does a great WR.

And just so you know: NOBODY is a sure thing.

Reggie Bush was supposed to be Gayle Sayers.

How do teams value RTs compared with LTs?? Joe Thomas' value is that of a RT on our team because our QB is left-handed. If he's not protecting the blind side of our QB he is not worth a top 5 pick.

What's more important than the fact that CJ>>>>>>>JT is that we will probably not draft Joe Thomas. Our offensive line is becoming a strength and improving after we spent money on it in FA and 2 draft picks in the first 2 rounds. Also keep in mind how Kenyatta Walker was such a bust for us in the 1st, and he was a RT. That will scare our coaches a fair bit. LTs are not as valuable to our team and they are not worth top 10 picks if they are not protecting our QBs backside. Our WRs are steadily decreasing and we need an offensive playmaker. Our improved line will help Cadillac, but CJ will even more because a strong passing game opens up the box on defense.

As far as you saying CJ won't be as successful as people think....that just ruins your whole argument because Calvin Johnson is one of the greatest NFL prospects the world has seen.

We can keep adding to our offensive line, but we will create a domino effect on the rest of the team because of our other needs. Our line is competent right now, and even if we draft Joe Thomas we still won't have a starting-caliber C. Do you want us to draft Kalil in the 2nd too, and go OL in the first 2 rounds for 2 years straight? That formula doesn't work, as proven by the Lions.

magicfan39126
03-20-2007, 08:29 PM
How do teams value RTs compared with LTs?? Joe Thomas' value is that of a RT on our team because our QB is left-handed. If he's not protecting the blind side of our QB he is not worth a top 5 pick.

Jeff Garcia is a righty, I believe. That's irrelevant anyway, each team's best pass rushing DE would still play against our LT.

What's more important than the fact that CJ>>>>>>>JT is that we will probably not draft Joe Thomas.

You're gonna have to let me borrow you're crystal ball. The best player out of last year's draft was probably Marcus McNeill, a late second rounder. Marques Colston was a late seventh. For all we know, an undrafted player could wind up being better than Calvin. Don't make your opinions out to be facts.

Our offensive line is becoming a strength and improving after we spent money on it in FA and 2 draft picks in the first 2 rounds. Also keep in mind how Kenyatta Walker was such a bust for us in the 1st, and he was a RT.

Our o-line is still probably the weakest unit on this team. Kenyatta was a McKay pick, enough said.

That will scare our coaches a fair bit. LTs are not as valuable to our team and they are not worth top 10 picks if they are not protecting our QBs backside. Our WRs are steadily decreasing and we need an offensive playmaker. Our improved line will help Cadillac, but CJ will even more because a strong passing game opens up the box on defense.

We don't know who our QB is. Backside, schmackside. Teams will still send their best pass rusher to face our LT.

As far as you saying CJ won't be as successful as people think....that just ruins your whole argument because Calvin Johnson is one of the greatest NFL prospects the world has seen.

Um, don't put words in my mouth. I love CJ and he is my favorite player in this draft. I'm just not a shrieking fan-boy like you, but I think he's gonna be very good. But, if he's so stupifyingly amazing, why would he slip to #4.

Ryan Leaf was the best prosepect that alot of people had ever seen too.

We can keep adding to our offensive line, but we will create a domino effect on the rest of the team because of our other needs. Our line is competent right now, and even if we draft Joe Thomas we still won't have a starting-caliber C. Do you want us to draft Kalil in the 2nd too, and go OL in the first 2 rounds for 2 years straight? That formula doesn't work, as proven by the Lions.

I don't get hung up on worrying about positions. I'd do whatever I could to improve this team the most. If I was Matt Millen, I'd take CJ, even though Detroit fans would lose their **** because looking back, those three WRs Detroit picked all kinda suck. Why not take him?

-black
03-20-2007, 08:44 PM
for those who want Thomas over anybody else in the draft...tell me

what would be the use of signing Petitgough and what will we do with the C position, easily our weakest position on the line

etk
03-20-2007, 08:48 PM
I wasn't taking to you, I was talking to Booger. His opinions are actually of importance, because he doesn't insinuate that CJ is like Ryan Leaf, and he doesn't think that Roy Williams sucks. You put words in my mouth, I didn't say CJ is a lock to be the best in the draft, I just said that overall opinion is that he is way better than Joe Thomas as a prospect. That is as close to a fact as it gets. I don't understand where you're going with the McNeill/Colston point. Frankly, not a word of your post made sense or had anything to do with what I said. You say don't worry about positions do what you can to improve the team.....CJ is the best player in the draft according to at least 90% of experts. You even said you think he's the best in the draft, so what you think he isn't an improvement over Michael Clayton? Michael Clayton stopped trying 2 years ago. He himself admitted that he stopped working hard and he thought the game would just come to him after his rookie season. Then he said he was going to work a lot harder and go back to form, but his numbers stayed the same! Same old lousy work ethic, and I don't think he will ever get it back. Then you said Garcia is a righty...well gee how old is Jeff Garcia? Is he our QB of the future now?

etk
03-20-2007, 08:50 PM
for those who want Thomas over anybody else in the draft...tell me

what would be the use of signing Petitgough and what will we do with the C position, easily our weakest position on the line

+++++rep when I get the chance, you need to post more Black,,,,,

Booger
03-20-2007, 09:08 PM
for those who want Thomas over anybody else in the draft...tell me

what would be the use of signing Petitgough and what will we do with the C position, easily our weakest position on the line

Petitgout was signed for 3 years and $15.5 million, we can afford to play him at LG (he has played both LG and LT in the NFL). Given Buenning's injury status, we may need a new starting LG this season.

What will we do with our C position if we draft CJ? It's not like Kalil is a slam dunk in round 2 no matter who we draft in round 1.

John Wade will very likely be our starting centre this season, unless there is news concerning him that I am not aware of.

magicfan39126
03-20-2007, 09:08 PM
for those who want Thomas over anybody else in the draft...tell me

what would be the use of signing Petitgough and what will we do with the C position, easily our weakest position on the line


That's like worrying about what to do with Drew Bledsoe with Brady waiting in the wings.

Petitgout isn't good enough to prevent us from drafting a potential perrenial pro-bowl LT.

-black
03-20-2007, 09:13 PM
do people forget the signings of McDaniel and Christy when they were in their 30's?

WR is more of a need than OT. Its as clear as day but I dont feel like debating it cuz I got to study for my test tomorrow

we're all Bucs fans, so my posts never come in hate.....I reserve that for Panther fans and Julius Peppers

Booger
03-20-2007, 09:20 PM
WR is more of a need than OT. Its as clear as day but I dont feel like debating it cuz I got to study for my test tomorrow

we're all Bucs fans, so my posts never come in hate.....I reserve that for Panther fans and Julius Peppers

In my opinion,

Clayton and Galloway are a better starting duo than Trueblood and Petitgout

Hilliard, Stovall, and Boston provide better depth than Tucker and Davis

Clayton and Stovall provide have more potential than Trueblood and Davis

OT and WR are both needs, which one is bigger seems to be debatable (not "as clear as day").

I hope that the Bucs take the best player on their board, and if they were to choose CJ over JT, I wouldnt shed any tears. I just hope we get a shot at one or the other, so we can grab our franchise piece on offense, and spend the rest of our picks on the defense (except maybe a centre).

Booger
03-20-2007, 09:21 PM
do people forget the signings of McDaniel and Christy when they were in their 30's?



I also remember Steussie and Deese.

etk
03-20-2007, 09:22 PM
Petitgout was signed for 3 years and $15.5 million, we can afford to play him at LG (he has played both LG and LT in the NFL). Given Buenning's injury status, we may need a new starting LG this season.

What will we do with our C position if we draft CJ? It's not like Kalil is a slam dunk in round 2 no matter who we draft in round 1.

John Wade will very likely be our starting centre this season, unless there is news concerning him that I am not aware of.

We may need a starting LG...that would be Anthony Davis. That still leaves us with Petitgout & Colmer at LT, and neither of those players should be cut, so why would we add another one, when we could improve a position of need instead. DE, DT & S are our biggest needs, and CJ is the only player worth taking who doesn't fill one of those needs.

It seems like you are content with John Wade as our starting centre, when he is a very mediocre starter and Petitgout is a much better player than Wade. We can get away with Petitgout at LT, he is competent as long as he avoids stupid false-starts, but Wade is not a worthy starter at C.

TacticaLion
03-20-2007, 09:34 PM
If I was Matt Millen, I'd take CJ, even though Detroit fans would lose their **** because looking back, those three WRs Detroit picked all kinda suck. Why not take him?
Wow. Roy Williams? I would definitely not say that he "sucks". CRog recently ran a 4.8 40 for the Chiefs... he's a huge bust. MWilliams will have a hard time making the team this year... he's as close to a bust as one can get. But... Roy? No way.

If Oakland does not draft CJ, the Lions will trade down with a team that wants him. There are more than enough teams interested in him... he wont last long.

That being said, pre-draft information is one huge smokescreen. If the Lions actually want Joe Thomas... or Brady Quinn... or Gaines Adams (which may be the case), CJ may fall into your laps. But, from what I've heard, it looks like it probably wont happen.

etk
03-20-2007, 09:40 PM
Wow. Roy Williams? I would definitely not say that he "sucks". CRog recently ran a 4.8 40 for the Chiefs... he's a huge bust. MWilliams will have a hard time making the team this year... he's as close to a bust as one can get. But... Roy? No way.

If Oakland does not draft CJ, the Lions will trade down with a team that wants him. There are more than enough teams interested in him... he wont last long.

That being said, pre-draft information is one huge smokescreen. If the Lions actually want Joe Thomas... or Brady Quinn... or Gaines Adams (which may be the case), CJ may fall into your laps. But, from what I've heard, it looks like it probably wont happen.

Roy Williams is one of the most talented WRs in the league, how can you say he kinda sucks or he's a bust? I said it before but I had to say it again I just can't believe someone said that.

Booger
03-20-2007, 10:20 PM
We may need a starting LG...that would be Anthony Davis. That still leaves us with Petitgout & Colmer at LT, and neither of those players should be cut, so why would we add another one, when we could improve a position of need instead. DE, DT & S are our biggest needs, and CJ is the only player worth taking who doesn't fill one of those needs.

It seems like you are content with John Wade as our starting centre, when he is a very mediocre starter and Petitgout is a much better player than Wade. We can get away with Petitgout at LT, he is competent as long as he avoids stupid false-starts, but Wade is not a worthy starter at C.


Colmer's career is real close to being finished because of his injury (as far as I know, no link)

I am not necessarily content with Wade as our starting centre, I was simply stating that if the season started today, he would be our starter. The only draft pick likely to start over him would be Kalil, who I dont think will be a Buc (unless we go defense in round 1).

Petitgout is certainly a more solid LT than Wade is a C, no argument there. I am more than happy to start the season with Petitgout. My wanting Joe Thomas has little to do with my opinion of Petitgout, but I do realize that a 30+ year old on a 3-year contract is by no means the long term answer. Hopefully he will be.

Caddy
03-20-2007, 11:49 PM
Colmer's career is real close to being finished because of his injury (as far as I know, no link)

I am not necessarily content with Wade as our starting centre, I was simply stating that if the season started today, he would be our starter. The only draft pick likely to start over him would be Kalil, who I dont think will be a Buc (unless we go defense in round 1).

Petitgout is certainly a more solid LT than Wade is a C, no argument there. I am more than happy to start the season with Petitgout. My wanting Joe Thomas has little to do with my opinion of Petitgout, but I do realize that a 30+ year old on a 3-year contract is by no means the long term answer. Hopefully he will be.

Colmer will be lucky to ever play a down in the NFL. I hope he does, but untill we see him on the field he should not be factored in to draft considerations.

Merlin
03-21-2007, 01:59 AM
Wow..we have been busy...lols

According to every report I have seen, CJ is the number one rated player on everybody's board, now obviously that doesn't mean he'll nesacarrilly be every teams No1 priority, or first rd pick?
But in the case of the Buc's, he is just to good to pass up on IMO.

Their is never a "sure thing" in the draft as we all know, but,....he has been touted as the best prospect ever to enter the draft, that does count for something. IMO, it means we have a great opportunity!

In a year or two's time, I don't want to look back and say, well, we had the opportunity to get him, but we didn't take it, I don't want to rely on Mark Clayton finally pulling his finger out, or that we'll find a plug-in for Galloway down the line?, if he got injured, who's going to stretch the field for us this season?

Usually I would be happy to draft a top tier OT, but IMO, I think we could get value in rd 2, "IF"...it's deemed necessary by our coaching staff.

As for C, Samson Satele from Hawaii can also play G, we might have a shot at him in the 3rd.

etk
03-21-2007, 05:36 AM
We don't need to draft an OT in round 2. We have a fine OT situation for at least the next 2 years, and it's too early to begin developing one. All we need to do is add depth, and that shouldn't come until the 2nd day or FA.

Mark Clayton is on the Ravens btw....

We can live with an injury to Petitgout, but if Galloway goes down our whole offense is screwed. Does that not show how weak our WR corps is?

Caddy
03-21-2007, 05:45 AM
If Staley somehow made it too the 2nd and we did not take Thomas in the 1st we would be stupid to pass on him.

etk
03-21-2007, 05:46 AM
We would also be stupid to draft an OT over a UT, DE or S, no matter how good he is. Staley would make some sense though because he had loads of potential and we have time to let him develop.

Caddy
03-21-2007, 05:49 AM
We would also be stupid to draft an OT over a UT, DE or S, no matter how good he is. Staley would make some sense though because he had loads of potential and we have time to let him develop.

I do agree in part with you. You could easily create an argument to draft Staley or not to draft him.. And how come you're up so early? lol

etk
03-21-2007, 06:24 AM
lol I got up to study chemistry, but after half-an-hour I realized that I am completely lost and my notes are basically empty, so I gave up. Then I went back for a bit, and now I'm back here!

Merlin
03-21-2007, 07:10 AM
Mark Clayton is on the Ravens btw....


Doh!!! gosh darn it,..............it's a habit of mine, not the first time it's happened, won't be the last!?! (blame the Mark's brother's and Marino)

-black
03-21-2007, 11:46 AM
If Staley somehow made it too the 2nd and we did not take Thomas in the 1st we would be stupid to pass on him.

much rather would take Kalil in round 2 over Staley

2nd round C is more important than a 2nd rd OT

Merlin
03-21-2007, 11:58 AM
much rather would take Kalil in round 2 over Staley

2nd round C is more important than a 2nd rd OTI certainly think that would apply this year to the Bucs, more so than usual, though if we take CJ in the first, it will be interesting to see how the staff rate our "needs" in terms of the depth in the draft at C & DE?.

-black
03-21-2007, 01:49 PM
I certainly think that would apply this year to the Bucs, more so than usual, though if we take CJ in the first, it will be interesting to see how the staff rate our "needs" in terms of the depth in the draft at C & DE?.

its hard to justify taking 2 offensive players with our first 2 picks....but IMO it would be BPA that fit needs....CJ and Kalil could def complete our offense, as we would be set with talent and youth at nearly every position....then we could focus everything to the defense....

If a guy like Tim Crowder dropped to 2.a I would be thrilled....

Caddy
03-21-2007, 03:28 PM
its hard to justify taking 2 offensive players with our first 2 picks....but IMO it would be BPA that fit needs....CJ and Kalil could def complete our offense, as we would be set with talent and youth at nearly every position....then we could focus everything to the defense....

If a guy like Tim Crowder dropped to 2.a I would be thrilled....

Crowder would be a reach if he was taken in the 1st round so seeing him at pick 2a would be less than surprising.

etk
03-21-2007, 03:35 PM
Crowder would be a reach if he was taken in the 1st round so seeing him at pick 2a would be less than surprising.

lol I would be thrilled if he dropped to 2b and we got Kalil & CJ before that. 2 of the best offensive prospects in the draft to complete our offense!

-black
03-21-2007, 04:07 PM
Crowder would be a reach if he was taken in the 1st round so seeing him at pick 2a would be less than surprising.



im sorry, typo....i meant to say 2 b....i want Kalil with 2.a

I think Crowder could be one of the steals of the draft...great size, good speed, double digit sack production.....i honestly would not be surpsied if he went to Baltimore in the 1st....would it be a reach? considering that he is rated by most as a consensus late 2nd round pick then YES....but we have seem stranger things in the draft, especially in late round 1

Caddy
03-21-2007, 11:46 PM
im sorry, typo....i meant to say 2 b....i want Kalil with 2.a

I think Crowder could be one of the steals of the draft...great size, good speed, double digit sack production.....i honestly would not be surpsied if he went to Baltimore in the 1st....would it be a reach? considering that he is rated by most as a consensus late 2nd round pick then YES....but we have seem stranger things in the draft, especially in late round 1

With Newsome at GM Baltimore wouldn't make such a stupid pick.

Merlin
03-22-2007, 12:06 AM
IMO, Crowder is vastly underated, I would be more than happy to get him at either spot in the 2nd.

Buccaneer Genius
03-24-2007, 08:21 PM
I am suprised that no one is really harping on the fact that the Bucs are being extremely quiet in regards to Simeon Rice and his status. Here is my opinion on what very well could happen in the upcoming weeks. I believe that somehow, someway the Bucs ink Charles Grant and move forward in trying to move Simeon to Detroit. If the Bucs swap picks with Detroit and add Simeon to the mix, there would be no need for any additional picks to change hands. The Bucs get better and younger at D-line, Simeon gets reunited with Marinelli so he can become a stud again and the Bucs move to #2. If anyone in their right mind doesn't think there will be teams lining up to trade with Detroit to get a shot at C.J. right after the Raiders select Russell, they are sadly mistaken. The Bucs are being quite adamant about their intent to net C.J. and minipulate whatever they can to make that happen. Let me know what you all think.

Caddy
03-25-2007, 12:22 AM
I am suprised that no one is really harping on the fact that the Bucs are being extremely quiet in regards to Simeon Rice and his status. Here is my opinion on what very well could happen in the upcoming weeks. I believe that somehow, someway the Bucs ink Charles Grant and move forward in trying to move Simeon to Detroit. If the Bucs swap picks with Detroit and add Simeon to the mix, there would be no need for any additional picks to change hands. The Bucs get better and younger at D-line, Simeon gets reunited with Marinelli so he can become a stud again and the Bucs move to #2. If anyone in their right mind doesn't think there will be teams lining up to trade with Detroit to get a shot at C.J. right after the Raiders select Russell, they are sadly mistaken. The Bucs are being quite adamant about their intent to net C.J. and minipulate whatever they can to make that happen. Let me know what you all think.

If we want Grant this season we would have to go via one of two methods :

a) Sign him to an offer sheet, which the Saints could match, and give up 2 first rounders
b) Work out a separate trade. Grant would be valued quite highly anyway and is belongs to a divisional team. A trade wouldn't happen.

So either way the Bucs aren't getting Grant, and if we can't get another good DE we cannot afford to trade Rice.

Welcome to the Board!

etk
03-25-2007, 02:07 PM
I am suprised that no one is really harping on the fact that the Bucs are being extremely quiet in regards to Simeon Rice and his status. Here is my opinion on what very well could happen in the upcoming weeks. I believe that somehow, someway the Bucs ink Charles Grant and move forward in trying to move Simeon to Detroit. If the Bucs swap picks with Detroit and add Simeon to the mix, there would be no need for any additional picks to change hands. The Bucs get better and younger at D-line, Simeon gets reunited with Marinelli so he can become a stud again and the Bucs move to #2. If anyone in their right mind doesn't think there will be teams lining up to trade with Detroit to get a shot at C.J. right after the Raiders select Russell, they are sadly mistaken. The Bucs are being quite adamant about their intent to net C.J. and minipulate whatever they can to make that happen. Let me know what you all think.

I think your name my offend some.......there can only be one Buccaneer Genius.......

Caddy
03-25-2007, 04:17 PM
http://www.brew-wood.co.uk/sci-fi/highlander/CONNOR.GIF

"There can only be one".

BunMagnet2
03-26-2007, 04:50 AM
I think that CJ would be a lovely pick no matter where i think that. He would have an immediate impact that we need on offense while we still have many wholes to fill we can't continue to wait on and aging Joey and an inconsistent Clayton.

etk
03-26-2007, 12:19 PM
Tampa Bay has the fourth pick and could look to move up to draft Calvin Johnson. Atlanta has the eighth pick and also could be looking to move up. But that would drop the Lions out of range of the blue chips.
-- Detroit News

I really wish we won that coin flip......

Bucsfan
03-26-2007, 12:20 PM
I would love if Quentin Moses fell to us in the 2nd, imo he would be a steal there



and i dont think the bucs should try to trade up, unless its for joe thomas

Tampa 2 4 life
03-26-2007, 02:54 PM
We don't need an OT more than we need a UT, DE, or a reliable safety.

etk
03-26-2007, 02:55 PM
We don't need an OT more than we need a UT, DE, or a reliable safety.

Definitely not worth trading up for.....

etk
03-26-2007, 03:06 PM
OKOYE, OKAY? There's a possibility Georgia Tech receiver Calvin Johnson won't be available when the Bucs pick fourth overall in next month's draft.

As much as they could use a franchise left tackle, they have at least covered themselves with Giants free agent Luke Petitgout.

The biggest area of need on the team is defensive tackle, particularly under tackle, which is the anchor of the Tampa 2 defense.

It might be a little high, but the Bucs will have to strongly consider Louisville's Amobi Okoye.

The 19-year-old phenom is the highest-rated defensive tackle in the draft and certainly a top-10 pick. Matching the need with the player, it really wouldn't be that much of a stretch considering Okoye's upside.

It was a weak defensive tackle class in free agency, so that need can only be fulfilled through the draft.

Nice to see there's some smart sportswriters out there.....

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/03/25/Bucs/Clayton_won_t_leave_p.shtml

Caddy
03-26-2007, 04:17 PM
We've known this for a while, so no surprise really.

etk
03-26-2007, 04:23 PM
We've known this for a while, so no surprise really.

Well some people here think we should take Joe Thomas over CJ, and that article basically said we should take Okoye over Thomas, which is what I am trying to stress......

"We have covered ourself with Petitgout"=exactly how I feel.

Caddy
03-26-2007, 04:28 PM
Well some people here think we should take Joe Thomas over CJ, and that article basically said we should take Okoye over Thomas, which is what I am trying to stress......

"We have covered ourself with Petitgout"=exactly how I feel.

Honestly, I am one of those guys. I know that UT is one of our need positions, but I like the idea of drafting a franchise LT, who can man that side of the line for a decade.

etk
03-26-2007, 04:37 PM
Honestly, I am one of those guys. I know that UT is one of our need positions, but I like the idea of drafting a franchise LT, who can man that side of the line for a decade.

You want Thomas over CJ!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!

:O:O:O:O:O:O:O

Look at your sig!

Caddy
03-26-2007, 04:49 PM
You want Thomas over CJ!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!

:O:O:O:O:O:O:O

Look at your sig!

Lol, not over CJ, over Okoye. My bad, such blasphomy should never be tolerated on the Bucs message board. I think its Chucky that wants Thomas over Johnson.

etk
03-26-2007, 05:25 PM
Lol, not over CJ, over Okoye. My bad, such blasphomy should never be tolerated on the Bucs message board. I think its Chucky that wants Thomas over Johnson.

No, the title of biggest Thomas fangirl goes to Booger, with Bucsfan a close second. Chucky loves CJ if I'm not mistaken, so don't take away his Bucs credibility, yet...... :)

Caddy
03-27-2007, 12:29 AM
Lol. My bad, I knew it was someone with a picture of Gruden in their sig but I didn't have time to look it up.