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Merlin
03-19-2007, 02:47 PM
As a Tampa fan, I would like to here your thoughts on a trade possibility? (CJ if he's available)

We would swap 1rd picks, (on the day) and give you our 2B (#35) and 5th Rd pick (#131)

Opinion's please.

Xiomera
03-19-2007, 02:49 PM
As a Tampa fan, I would like to here your thoughts on a trade possibility? (CJ if he's available)

We would swap 1rd picks, (on the day) and give you our 2B (#35) and 5th Rd pick (#131)

Opinion's please.

I'd do it in an instant . . . with no regrets or concerns.

Can we send it in the the Commish?

Jagonsucker
03-19-2007, 03:40 PM
It would be OK but i think Detroit can get a lot more if they trade down to spots 8-12. So if i was Millen i wouldn't do it unless that was the only trade that was offered.

Xiomera
03-19-2007, 03:52 PM
It would be OK but i think Detroit can get a lot more if they trade down to spots 8-12. So if i was Millen i wouldn't do it unless that was the only trade that was offered.

The thing is, if Detroit only moves down to 4, they could then move down again if some team wants Quinn or Joe Thomas. One, if not both, of these guys will be there at 4, and Arizona might bite just to secure themselves Thomas.

That being said, I see Detroit's trade partner being a little lower in the top ten.

TRJ997
03-19-2007, 03:53 PM
It would be OK but i think Detroit can get a lot more if they trade down to spots 8-12. So if i was Millen i wouldn't do it unless that was the only trade that was offered.

It is unlikely that a team in the 8-12 range would give up the picks to move to 2. Sure it would be great to get a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and next years 1st from Atlanta, but that isn't going to happen. IMO, the only chance Detroit has to trade down is with CLE, TB, or ARI, but even that would be expensive. They could trade down twice to 8-12, which would be great given Detroit's needs and the players at the top of this draft.

Also note that our 2B pick is #64, not #35. As a Buc's fan, I'd be fine with the trade if it included the 64th pick, but I really want to hang on to our 2a pick. There will be a few 1st round talents available then who could be immediate impact players on our team.

Xiomera
03-19-2007, 03:58 PM
It is unlikely that a team in the 8-12 range would give up the picks to move to 2. Sure it would be great to get a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and next years 1st from Atlanta, but that isn't going to happen. IMO, the only chance Detroit has to trade down is with CLE, TB, or ARI, but even that would be expensive. They could trade down twice to 8-12, which would be great given Detroit's needs and the players at the top of this draft.

Also note that our 2B pick is #64, not #35. As a Buc's fan, I'd be fine with the trade if it included the 64th pick, but I really want to hang on to our 2a pick. There will be a few 1st round talents available then who could be immediate impact players on our team.

Detroit would probably take #4, #64, and your third rounder for #2 . . . but I don't see that deal (or any other like this) happening.

TacticaLion
03-19-2007, 04:06 PM
The thing is, if Detroit only moves down to 4, they could then move down again if some team wants Quinn or Joe Thomas. One, if not both, of these guys will be there at 4, and Arizona might bite just to secure themselves Thomas.

That being said, I see Detroit's trade partner being a little lower in the top ten.

My thoughts exactly. Trade down to 4, then trade down again... accept anything reasonable for the second trade-down (even for their first, third and fourth). Those trades would give us a LOT of flexibility in the draft... and the ability to package picks to move back up and select another great player.

P-L
03-19-2007, 04:06 PM
If the Bucs didn't give us #35 then I'd say no deal. If the Bucs gave us #4, #35, and their 5th Round pick then they'd still have a slight edge on the trade using the value chart. #4, #64, and a 5th would be ripping us off.

TacticaLion
03-19-2007, 04:26 PM
If the Bucs didn't give us #35 then I'd say no deal. If the Bucs gave us #4, #35, and their 5th Round pick then they'd still have a slight edge on the trade using the value chart. #4, #64, and a 5th would be ripping us off.

#4, #35 and the 5th is a reasonable trade (regardless if it fits the "trade value")... but #4, #64 and a 5th is horrible.

They'd have to do better than that... maybe a 2008 pick added in (or a player).

Xiomera
03-19-2007, 05:01 PM
If the Bucs didn't give us #35 then I'd say no deal. If the Bucs gave us #4, #35, and their 5th Round pick then they'd still have a slight edge on the trade using the value chart. #4, #64, and a 5th would be ripping us off.

You wouldn't do this deal? I mean we are targetting Adams, Thomas, and Quinn . . . Adams and probably one other will be there at 4. Why sit at 2 and take them there? Plus we'd be paying them more.

asmitty45
03-19-2007, 05:12 PM
I like the deal but i think we will be able to get more on draft day.

Xiomera
03-19-2007, 05:13 PM
I like the deal but i think we will be able to get more on draft day.

Unless Oakland takes CJ . . . we might be better off making a deal sooner than later. If we trade down and remain in the top 5, then we can do another deal on draft day.

etk
03-19-2007, 05:42 PM
An unnamed source has indicated that the Bucs will not trade up in this year's draft. Lions fans can hope to scam extra picks from another team like Arizona, because Tampa fans are well aware that once CJ drops past #1 he will be a Buc, assuming that one psycho team outside of the top 5 doesn't try to trade up with a ridiculous amount of picks to acquire his services. If said psycho team pulls that trade, Lions fans will suffer even more because Matt Millen will have more picks to blow!

TacticaLion
03-19-2007, 06:16 PM
post below...

TacticaLion
03-19-2007, 06:18 PM
An unnamed source has indicated that the Bucs will not trade up in this year's draft. Lions fans can hope to scam extra picks from another team like Arizona, because Tampa fans are well aware that once CJ drops past #1 he will be a Buc, assuming that one psycho team outside of the top 5 doesn't try to trade up with a ridiculous amount of picks to acquire his services. If said psycho team pulls that trade, Lions fans will suffer even more because Matt Millen will have more picks to blow!Shut the **** up. The joke has been said... it's old... you aren't funny... get over yourself.

I'm sick of children using the same old joke in a reasonable discussion. Stop being stupid.

Oh yeah... a source said something about the draft? REALLY!? WOAH! Man... that "source" could NOT possibly be a smokescreen, could it? You are a genius.

And... guess what? Trading up will obviously cost a team SOMETHING. It isn't a "scam". CJ is a great talent, and a lot of teams would trade multiple picks to draft him.

A "source" also said that the Bucs might draft Okoye at #4. Look into that one, chief.

etk
03-19-2007, 06:43 PM
Shut the **** up. The joke has been said... it's old... you aren't funny... get over yourself.

I'm sick of children using the same old joke in a reasonable discussion. Stop being stupid.

Oh yeah... a source said something about the draft? REALLY!? WOAH! Man... that "source" could NOT possibly be a smokescreen, could it? You are a genius.

And... guess what? Trading up will obviously cost a team SOMETHING. It isn't a "scam". CJ is a great talent, and a lot of teams would trade multiple picks to draft him.

A "source" also said that the Bucs might draft Okoye at #4. Look into that one, chief.

Looks like someone is a little bitter.....

If the joke was old and funny, how come Lions fans continue to mock Matt Millen themselves to this day? How come Scotty D, a reputable poster who is a Lions fan has a sig ridiculing Matt Millen's draft board? How come it is poking fun at the # of WRs he has taken?

I just made a little joke that I wasn't even serious about. Matt Millen is not the GM many make him out to be, he has made some great picks like Redding & Sims, and his 2004 draft was a success.

Your attempt to anger me with the Okoye comment has only done the opposite, because I like Okoye and he is #2 on my Bucs draft board.

Next time you vent out your anger and frustrations on an innocent poster, try to be reasonable in your comments and try to be less profane and rude. You attempted to insult me rudely 7 times (I counted), and you negative repped me for a very immature, childish and selfish reason.

You can make it up to yourself, your fellow Lions fans, and me by apologizing sincerely and positive repping me to compensate for the previous damage. Otherwise you are just an angry troll that can't have fun or enjoy fair discussion from another football fan. This is a football forum and we are all fans of the game, your comments were out-of-hand and un-sportsmanlike.

Sincerely,

-etk-

Scotty D
03-19-2007, 08:44 PM
Its kind of like how a big brother picks on his little brother, but as soon as someone else picks on the little brother the big brother gets mad.

Xiomera
03-19-2007, 09:06 PM
Lions fans can make fun of themselves. Others can't, mainly because they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

jbombul
03-19-2007, 09:18 PM
basically, dont F*** with the family

Xiomera
03-19-2007, 09:20 PM
basically, dont F*** with the family

Or you'll be swimming with the fishes.

WMD
03-19-2007, 09:57 PM
Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes.

TacticaLion
03-20-2007, 04:39 AM
Looks like someone is a little bitter.....

If the joke was old and funny, how come Lions fans continue to mock Matt Millen themselves to this day? How come Scotty D, a reputable poster who is a Lions fan has a sig ridiculing Matt Millen's draft board? How come it is poking fun at the # of WRs he has taken?

I just made a little joke that I wasn't even serious about. Matt Millen is not the GM many make him out to be, he has made some great picks like Redding & Sims, and his 2004 draft was a success.

Your attempt to anger me with the Okoye comment has only done the opposite, because I like Okoye and he is #2 on my Bucs draft board.

Next time you vent out your anger and frustrations on an innocent poster, try to be reasonable in your comments and try to be less profane and rude. You attempted to insult me rudely 7 times (I counted), and you negative repped me for a very immature, childish and selfish reason.

You can make it up to yourself, your fellow Lions fans, and me by apologizing sincerely and positive repping me to compensate for the previous damage. Otherwise you are just an angry troll that can't have fun or enjoy fair discussion from another football fan. This is a football forum and we are all fans of the game, your comments were out-of-hand and un-sportsmanlike.

Sincerely,

-etk-
Bitter? Nope. Tired of the same, used comments? Yes. The worst part? You came on the "Detroit Lions Team Forum" to say it.

I can understand why Lions fans like "iamcanadian" bash Millen. Why? They're sick of watching their team fail year after year... for 20+ years. They think they know the problem, and want the problem fixed before they fail again. I'll argue with him from time to time, but I can at least see his perspective.

I can't see your perspective... at all... in the first post (other than taking a shot at the Lions). Lets recap:
An unnamed source has indicated that the Bucs will not trade up in this year's draft.WOW! A Bucs fan makes a thread, proposes a trade to us, and asks our opinion... and you enter the thread to tell us that an "unnamed source" has indicated that the Bucs won't trade up? You must be a goddamn detective. Considering that this is the NFL Draft, I believe half of what I hear from a reputable source and absolutely none of what I hear from a random fan like you. Bring a name/link, or don't make the comment.

"Lions fans can hope to scam extra picks from another team...

"assuming that one psycho team outside of the top 5 doesn't try to trade up with a ridiculous amount of picks to acquire his services."
Interesting. Asking for a 2nd and 5th round pick is a scam? Absolutely not. It's the price a team will pay to draft the best WR prospect available (or have their pick at both QBs). The Lions will probably trade down, and will receive similar offers from a variety of teams. You might want to familiarize yourself with the Trade Value Chart... it'll help you from making unreasonable comments.

If said psycho team pulls that trade, Lions fans will suffer even more because Matt Millen will have more picks to blow!I don't think anything else needs to be said about this one. You made the same "Millen Bashing" comment, and I replied to you. If you're going to start with the insults, you better be able to take them in return.

So, etk... since you seem to want a "fair discussion", start by making a fair and respectful post in another team's thread. And, if you want an apology, start by giving one. I could care less either way. This is an internet forum... you made some stupid comments... I threw them back at you.

Xiomera
03-20-2007, 07:49 AM
Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes.

I was hoping someone would follow up with this.

TRJ997
03-20-2007, 03:42 PM
You wouldn't do this deal? I mean we are targetting Adams, Thomas, and Quinn . . . Adams and probably one other will be there at 4. Why sit at 2 and take them there? Plus we'd be paying them more.

I agree with you on this Xi. I think there is a less than 50% chance that any team will offer a fair trade based on the Trade Value Chart. However, since the Lions would have almost a 100% chance to get the top defensive player on their board at 4 or 5, I think they should take a somewhat "unfair" deal to move down. Unless, of course, someone is willing to give a 1, 2, and 3 plus.

If there were no other deals on the table with Detroit on the clock, would their fans be upset if they traded from 2 to 4 for the 64th pick and a TB's 4th? Or would you rather take JT, Quinn, or Adams at 2?

TacticaLion
03-20-2007, 05:01 PM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10069968

HAHA! A new draft on www.nfl.com that has the Bucs trading up with the Lions... and trading the Lions their 2nd and 4th round draft picks.

That's some funny ****.

After all the bitching that etk did... claiming that an "unnamed source" said the Bucs WOULD NOT trade down... and that giving the Lions their 2nd and 5th round pick was a "scam" and "ridiculous"... nfl.com posts a mock draft that does just that (actually, even better). That's awesome.

*waves*... hi, etk!

(About the trading: I'd take any reasonable trade over not trading... although I want the best trade possible. If they could only find offers for an additional 3rd, I'd still take it (if it kept us in the top 10). Having more picks is better than having less picks.)

(Side note... in the mock draft, he claims the Lions will address crucial needs at safety and linebacker. What about CB? As much as i'd like a stud FS, I think we need a stud CB first. Ah well... I'd prefer Gaines Adams at #4 and Stanton/MLB/CB/S/OG as the 2nd round picks.)

etk
03-20-2007, 05:27 PM
I was joking about the unnamed source, but I find it amusing that you continue to troll around and try to abuse me to impress your Lions comrades on this team discussion. I had the compassion to give you a chance to make good and I tried to level up with you after I made some ignorant (but joking) comments, but you continue to try to insult me. It's great that the Lions are trying to trade down, Millen has proven in past drafts that he can have success with additional early picks, as he did with Roy Williams & Kevin Jones in 2004. Unfortunately Tampa is probably not looking to trade up, and these rumours were created from fans, not media or team officials. We have multiple needs to fill, and we need all 4 first-day picks. We can't afford to trade up for a player that does not fill a major need, especially when there is not a reasonable belief that he will be drafted by Cleveland.

I never bitched about anything, but you are the one who freaked out about a little Millen joke. I'm sorry if I offended you, but I have friends from Detroit who hate him and make fun of him all the time. I'm also aware of the Fire Millen parades and gear that have been going on for a while, but you seem eager to get angry and try to insult me anyway.

TacticaLion
03-20-2007, 05:38 PM
I was joking about the unnamed source, but I find it amusing that you continue to troll around and try to abuse me to impress your Lions comrades on this team discussion. I had the compassion to give you a chance to make good and I tried to level up with you after I made some ignorant (but joking) comments, but you continue to try to insult me. It's great that the Lions are trying to trade down, Millen has proven in past drafts that he can have success with additional early picks, as he did with Roy Williams & Kevin Jones in 2004. Unfortunately Tampa is probably not looking to trade up, and these rumours were created from fans, not media or team officials. We have multiple needs to fill, and we need all 4 first-day picks. We can't afford to trade up for a player that does not fill a major need, especially when there is not a reasonable belief that he will be drafted by Cleveland.

I never bitched about anything, but you are the one who freaked out about a little Millen joke. I'm sorry if I offended you, but I have friends from Detroit who hate him and make fun of him all the time. I'm also aware of the Fire Millen parades and gear that have been going on for a while, but you seem eager to get angry and try to insult me anyway.Make good and level with me? When? Did you EVER apologize? No. Do I care? Not at all. You've admitted to making ignorant comments in the first place, so be the one to apologize if you think one of us should. Once again, I could care less.

I stopped insulting you a while ago... but I came across that mock draft from nfl.com and had to post it. You don't think they'll trade up with us, but analysts seem to think they could. And, as you thought trading a 2nd and 5th round pick was unreasonable, the analyst has the Bucs trading their 2nd and 4th. The entire situation is humorous to me... to include the Millen comment.

Don't go on another team's forum and insult the team and don't create comments and rumors from imaginary sources. Learn your lesson and get over it.

etk
03-20-2007, 06:27 PM
Make good and level with me? When? Did you EVER apologize? No. Do I care? Not at all. You've admitted to making ignorant comments in the first place, so be the one to apologize if you think one of us should. Once again, I could care less.

I stopped insulting you a while ago... but I came across that mock draft from nfl.com and had to post it. You don't think they'll trade up with us, but analysts seem to think they could. And, as you thought trading a 2nd and 5th round pick was unreasonable, the analyst has the Bucs trading their 2nd and 4th. The entire situation is humorous to me... to include the Millen comment.

Don't go on another team's forum and insult the team and don't create comments and rumors from imaginary sources. Learn your lesson and get over it.

Ah yes, you also had to swear in reference to me, "wave" to me, and say that I was bitching. Very classy of you, no insults there. I never insulted your team or created imaginary sources. You obviously don't understand sarcasm, and you obviously don't understand manners. Learn your lesson and try to look over the facts next time instead of jumping to harass and insult a fan who is giving their opinions on a post from a fan of the same team. I did nothing harmful, so I don't need to apologize. You on the other hand should be making a sincere apology for making several asinine comments on several posts. I apologize that I misunderstood and thought you might actually have some decency and compassion to apologize for being an ass. I'm sorry that you think you can get away with being an absolute prick on your team's forum, but I will not back down from you just because this is your "home turf". Once again, you can look over your comments and learn your lesson, since that's the most I can ask for because you have too much pride to apologize in front of your fellow fans. I understand that situation, but you should not have tried to make things worse by posting more insults.

TacticaLion
03-20-2007, 07:04 PM
Ah yes, you also had to swear in reference to me, "wave" to me, and say that I was bitching. Very classy of you, no insults there. I never insulted your team or created imaginary sources. You obviously don't understand sarcasm, and you obviously don't understand manners. Learn your lesson and try to look over the facts next time instead of jumping to harass and insult a fan who is giving their opinions on a post from a fan of the same team. I did nothing harmful, so I don't need to apologize. You on the other hand should be making a sincere apology for making several asinine comments on several posts. I apologize that I misunderstood and thought you might actually have some decency and compassion to apologize for being an ass. I'm sorry that you think you can get away with being an absolute prick on your team's forum, but I will not back down from you just because this is your "home turf". Once again, you can look over your comments and learn your lesson, since that's the most I can ask for because you have too much pride to apologize in front of your fellow fans. I understand that situation, but you should not have tried to make things worse by posting more insults.I'm not going to sit here and explain the situation to you over and over again... this will be the last time. You admitted to making ignorant comments in the first place... and my post (that offended you so deeply) was a response to those comments. I'm not here to look good infront of other Lion's fan... as any of them will tell you I'll be the first to say something to them (I've gotten into arguments with the majority of them). We disagree about ****, but that's usually the extent of it... they rarely make rude, ignorant or unreasonable comments, so there's no reason for me to be disrespectful.
An unnamed source has indicated that the Bucs will not trade up in this year's draft. Lions fans can hope to scam extra picks from another team like Arizona, because Tampa fans are well aware that once CJ drops past #1 he will be a Buc, assuming that one psycho team outside of the top 5 doesn't try to trade up with a ridiculous amount of picks to acquire his services. If said psycho team pulls that trade, Lions fans will suffer even more because Matt Millen will have more picks to blow!You "made up" a statement from a "source" that directly related to the conversation, called the suggested trade a "scam" and "ridiculous" and took a shot at the team. Honestly... does anything else need to be said?

Bottom line: if you can't show respect, stay in your own thread. This conversation is over... unless you've got something new to say.

etk
03-20-2007, 08:40 PM
Yep, this conversation is over. I believe you when you say you have lots of arguments with other Lions fans. There is a reason for this....

It's because you=

http://www.janbrett.com/images/mobile_troll.jpg

TacticaLion
03-20-2007, 08:41 PM
Yep, this conversation is over. I believe you when you say you have lots of arguments with other Lions fans. There is a reason for this....

It's because you=

http://www.janbrett.com/images/mobile_troll.jpg
You average 31.19 posts per day... yet are calling ME the troll?

Good one, champ.

etk
03-20-2007, 08:54 PM
In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

I don't see anything there that eludes to post count. My post count represents my dedication to this board and I do not take trolls kindly. Trolling is posting insultingly to cause provocation....let's see...that's all you have done. You kept causing disruption when I tried to create fair peace and mutual apology. Therefore you are a troll.

TacticaLion
03-20-2007, 09:13 PM
In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

I don't see anything there that eludes to post count. My post count represents my dedication to this board and I do not take trolls kindly. Trolling is posting insultingly to cause provocation....let's see...that's all you have done. You kept causing disruption when I tried to create fair peace and mutual apology. Therefore you are a troll.
The exact definition of what you did in this post:
An unnamed source has indicated that the Bucs will not trade up in this year's draft. Lions fans can hope to scam extra picks from another team like Arizona, because Tampa fans are well aware that once CJ drops past #1 he will be a Buc, assuming that one psycho team outside of the top 5 doesn't try to trade up with a ridiculous amount of picks to acquire his services. If said psycho team pulls that trade, Lions fans will suffer even more because Matt Millen will have more picks to blow!Glad we cleared that up.

You came into the Lions forum and made inappropriate comments... comments that included an insult to the team/organization.

troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.I think you're done. Go away.

etk
03-20-2007, 09:28 PM
A troll has to be serious when he makes his comments (you). You are so thick that you don't even understand sarcasm. The first line and last line of my post were both jokes, I was being sarcastic, why is it so hard for you to understand? You keep revisiting this first post, but it is just plain hilarious how you got all riled up and angry over a post that wasn't even said in seriousness. You just continue to troll on and insult me, but I never intended to harm anyone, you are just so damn stupid and angry that you don't understand humour.

TacticaLion
03-20-2007, 09:41 PM
A troll has to be serious when he makes his comments (you). You are so thick that you don't even understand sarcasm. The first line and last line of my post were both jokes, I was being sarcastic, why is it so hard for you to understand? You keep revisiting this first post, but it is just plain hilarious how you got all riled up and angry over a post that wasn't even said in seriousness. You just continue to troll on and insult me, but I never intended to harm anyone, you are just so damn stupid and angry that you don't understand humour.*sigh*... this argument again. "I insulted you... but was just kidding!" Great. Guess what? I wasn't kidding. You're annoying and your comments are unnecessary. Stay out of another team's thread if you can't refrain from "kidding".

Go away.

etk
03-20-2007, 10:01 PM
*sigh*... this argument again. "I insulted you... but was just kidding!" Great. Guess what? I wasn't kidding. You're annoying and your comments are unnecessary. Stay out of another team's thread if you can't refrain from "kidding".

Go away.

Alright, I will go away at your request. It is fair to call me annoying and unnecessary from your point-of-view. You have admitted that my comments were not serious, so thank you. I guess I will take your advice because some fans can't take a joke properly, at least not on their team discussions.

Goodbye.