Why we look the other way

[Vikings Fan]

Why we look the other way
By Chuck Klosterman
ESPN The Magazine

This article appears in the March 26 issue of ESPN The Magazine

Shawne Merriman weighs 272 pounds.

This is six pounds less than Anthony Muñoz, probably the most dominating left tackle of all time. Shawne Merriman also runs the 40-yard dash in 4.61 seconds. When Jerry Rice attended the NFL draft combine in 1985, he reportedly ran a 4.60; Rice would go on to gain more than 23,000 all-purpose yards while scoring 207 career touchdowns.

You do not need Mel Kiper's hard drive to deduce what these numbers mean: As an outside linebacker, Shawne Merriman is almost as big as the best offensive tackle who ever played and almost as fast as the best wide receiver who ever played.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=klosterman/070319&sportCat=nfl

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Discuss.
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Dammit I cant figure out this damned new posting configuration.

[princefielder28]

Athletes now-a-days are given all necessary tools to succeed and become the best athlete possible. Back when Rice and Munoz were in football the technology and science behind athletics were minimal and today athletes can become as big as a linemen and run like a wideout. It's just the times!

[neko4]

Also the average size and speed of athletes has changed. Merrimen is just an A+ guy nowadays whereas 20 years ago he would have been off the charts. Do I believe his greatness is because of roids...? No. He has been the most dominate player in his league since jr high where he battled many family issues, poverty and growing up in a metro area with lots of violence.

[comahan]

Gashead!!!

[GiantRutgersFan]

I think a lot of guys get a bad rap regarding steriods. I have never done anything in my life, other then Creatine for 2 months. Yet I get constant "steroid" remarks (mostly back about 4 years ago, but occasionaly now) when I just started working out a lot and got in shape.

I used to be in extremely good shape when i played HS ball and people would bring up steriods, when I never did them. I simply worked out a lot, and got in shape in a short period of time. I just started working out everyday, and that was that. I was always naturally strong, but before that I was a chubby kid sitting around eating cookies all day. Once I started working out, I just got jacked. its how it happens.


Now I dont go to the gym as often and got a small beer gut, but I still occasionaly get comments about roids. I think people should just ****. I mean its not my fault that you have bad genes and cant get in shape....


I cant even imagine what kind of crap pro athletes get

[princefielder28]

I think a lot of guys get a bad rap regarding steriods. I have never done anything in my life, other then Creatine for 2 months. Yet I get constant "steroid" remarks (mostly back about 4 years ago, but occasionaly now) when I just started working out a lot and got in shape.

I used to be in extremely good shape when i played HS ball and people would bring up steriods, when I never did them. I simply worked out a lot, and got in shape in a short period of time. I just started working out everyday, and that was that. I was always naturally strong, but before that I was a chubby kid sitting around eating cookies all day. Once I started working out, I just got jacked. its how it happens.


Now I dont go to the gym as often and got a small beer gut, but I still occasionaly get comments about roids. I think people should just ****. I mean its not my fault that you have bad genes and cant get in shape....


I cant even imagine what kind of crap pro athletes get

People have a hard time believing that some people actually take the time out and get in shape and work hard when there are easy, none time consuming ways to get big.

[BlindSite]

Also the average size and speed of athletes has changed. Merrimen is just an A+ guy nowadays whereas 20 years ago he would have been off the charts. Do I believe his greatness is because of roids...? No. He has been the most dominate player in his league since jr high where he battled many family issues, poverty and growing up in a metro area with lots of violence.


That's ********. A good portion of Merriman's sacks come from excellent technique, wiffed calls and good schemes. Then again, a larger portion comes because of his size and speed. The speed he's got and the strength he's got are a direct result of using steroids...

[fenikz]

with the numbers i put up in high school compared to what some of the old school NFL guys would have done I could of been a pro bowler, its all about evolution and technology

[Caddy]

The game has changed. When comparing players nowadays it is all about the context within which they played the game, not measurables.

[TheChampIsHere]

I dont look the other way but I also dont like to jump into conclusions or villify certain players. Fact is I dont know the facts on these guys, I cant be positive that Merriman's physical ability is based on steroids, same thing for baseball or any other sport. Sure, it seems like Barry did it but we cant know for sure....but the bigger reason I dont like to single out players is because if we are gonna assume certain players do it, then its only fair to assume with that that it is widespread and in that case its not right to single out certain players just because they are better than the other guys who use steroids. Maybe its not right to let it slide, but its hard to find a good way to go about dealing with the problem, so I accept it and move on.

[TheChampIsHere]

The game has changed. When comparing players nowadays it is all about the context within which they played the game, not measurables.

this is very true too, to compare Merriman or any LB today to Jerry Rice is ludicrous, they were different eras. Athletes are bigger, stronger and faster now and there are tons of LBs who run in the 4.4s and 4.5s meaning theyre faster than the greatest WR ever. Its just how the game is now.

[Green Bay Scat]

Ive got a question, what steriod did merriman get caught with, cause as i recall it just triggered the "steriod/illegal substance" catagory, i dont ever remember hearing it was straight steriods

[MP123]

The athletes these days are unreal. However, just because they aren't workout warriors doesn't mean they're not good. Look at Anquan Boldin. He ran a 4.7, picked in the second round, and had 101 reception and over 1,300 yards his rookie season.

[RaiderNation]

one word........steriods

[Shiver]

I bet most players are on steroids. To be honest, I don't believe singling anyone out is the right course of action. After all, if we convict one freak athlete like Shawne Merriman, then we should scrutinize others like him. Brian Urlacher, Julius Peppers, Vernon Davis, etcetera, etcetera. Quite frankly, I don't care.

[LonghornsLegend]

what most of us need to remember, is its a hell of a lot of supplements out there now, that jack you up, that are not steroids...NO2, cell tech, creatine etc all get you super huge in a short amount of time, as well as muscle mass, and speed, those things are legal, and werent around as much back then, or nearly as advanced as they are now....


i find it hard to believe, that without that supplement merriman was caught with, he would be a bench player....but we shall see what type of year he has this year, id just say you cant call steroids everytime a player is really big or fast

[frogstomp]

No. He has been the most dominate player in his league since jr high where he battled many family issues, poverty and growing up in a metro area with lots of violence.

I fail to see why you brought this up. Unless, of course, you are pointing out the well known fact that poor people with bad histories never use illegal substances.

If that's the case, I agree entirely.

[rickscott]

When accused, he didn't fight it so that tells me something about his guilt or innocence in the steroid matter. He's still a super stud whether on them or not but for me personally, just like Bonds, if you take them, one has to question your accomplishments.

[neko4]

I fail to see why you brought this up. Unless, of course, you are pointing out the well known fact that poor people with bad histories never use illegal substances.

If that's the case, I agree entirely.

I'm saying that when he was younger he was as dominant then as he is today and his skills arent a direct result of steroids, but hard work.

[Addict]

one word........steriods

two words: banned suplement

that does not mean steroids per say, so let's not make idiots out of ourselves.

[BlindSite]

I bet most players are on steroids. To be honest, I don't believe singling anyone out is the right course of action. After all, if we convict one freak athlete like Shawne Merriman, then we should scrutinize others like him. Brian Urlacher, Julius Peppers, Vernon Davis, etcetera, etcetera. Quite frankly, I don't care.

Two of those three guys are amongst the best technical players at their position and are renowned work out warriors. Besides that neither player has a shady past. Peppers was pinged in his rookie season for ephedra that was in a protein shake he drank. He didn't even know it was in there. Urlacher hasn't had an infraction either. Merriman violated the steroid policy. Speculation as to which players juice and which don't is complete ********.

I thought a poster of your calibre would be smarter than to post something they can't substantiate and above that, that just sounds plain old like childish ********. There's another reason to dislike Merriman, he tarnishes the name of the sport and people in the league with no discernible history of questionable actions.

He violated the NFL's Steroid Policy...

Merriman's positive test was "definitely for steroids … not one of those supplement deals," said a source with knowledge of Merriman's suspension earlier Monday. Both the initial A sample and backup B sample came back positive, Mortensen reported.

Above Per ESPN
http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/SD/9744836
http://football.about.com/b/a/257880.htm

Three sources enough proof for you?


Research then post before calling people idiots, however indirectly.

[frogstomp]

I'm saying that when he was younger he was as dominant then as he is today and his skills arent a direct result of steroids, but hard work.

Because everyone who dominates High School goes on to dominate the NFL...

And there are no people who have ever taken steroids in high school...

I'm not saying he's only good because of steroids, but your arguments about why he isn't taking them are stupid.

[bigbluedefense]

I don't think the public understands how many people in the NFL use HGH. Its in every single lockerroom.

Thats why I got a kick out of everyone saying that "Oh, I don't respect SD, theyre all HGH users"

Guess what, chances are there are at least 4 guys on your team that are using HGH as well. Merriman's rival, DeMarcus Ware...it would not shock me at all if he was on HGH. Heck, his measureables are actually more freakish than Merriman's, so would it really be that much of a shock?

How can a guy who weighs 30 pounds lighter than Merriman (who's on juice none the less) bench more? Think about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Osi Umenyiora used it either. Nor would I be surprised if Peppers used it, especially with the Carolina steroid scandal. Same with Mario Williams. The Steeler's doctor just got caught ordering an assload of steroids and HGH from that pharmacy that got raided. You do the math, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why he did that.

The 70s steelers were a juiced up team, another thing that football historians tend to overlook. Romanowski admitted to being on steroids. As did other players, like Alzado.

Its been in the sport for a long time. Alot of great athletes of the sport have been doing it. Its the NFL's dark little secret. Its only getting publicity now because of the headlines that baseball has gotten for it. But make no mistake, this is not new, nor is it any more of an epidemic in the sport than it was years ago.

Shawne Merriman is the posterchild for it now because the problem needs a person to associate it with. And he fits the bill. Im not saying what he did was right, nor am I saying that everyone's doing something, but to think that he's the only one would be rather naive.

[yourfavestoner]

Once again, I agree completely BBD. It would not surprise me if any player was found guilty of using HGH. It's simply too easy too attain, too easy to use, and too hard to test for for an obscene amount of players not be using it.

Remember, these athletes are competing for a paycheck, and this is a substance that could help them earn a substantial amount more than they'd be worth without it. It's EVERYWHERE. You'd be naive to think otherwise.

I just did a google search on "purchasing human growth hormone." Just look at all the responses. It's incredibly easy to get.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=NjL&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=purchase+human+growth+hormone&spell=1

[JK17]

People who say Merriman's results are solely based on his steroid usage are either Merriman haters or too foolish to understand how steroids effect a person. I'm a Charger fan, and yes it pains to me to say it, but the truth is Merriman did fail a steroid test. That's not something I approve of or condone, but he failed one test, and took full accountability for it. Merriman is a player who had been tested numerous times by the league prior to the incident, and after the incident. It was the first test he failed, and since he failed it, he passed a number of tests proving he was clean for the entire season (his failed test took place over the summer). I know the effects of steroids don't wear off instantly, but they don't start instantly either. He was clean all those times before he failed his test, which is why I believe he did a one time thing, tried to cheat, which I know, is unacceptable, and got caught. He paid his punishment though. To say that the things he had done his rookie year, and for the majority of his soph year are solely based on steriods, and not countless practices and work on his technique is both naive and stupid.

EDIT: I didn't feel it was necesary to leave another post, but having read some more over the thread again, good post BBD i agree.

[bsaza2358]

I don't doubt that there is rampant use of illegal substances across many of these major sports. Even with all the work that these people do, humans aren't supposed to get that big. Physiologically, it's not supposed to happen. There are photos from last year's combine. Mario Williams and Bunkley and a lot of other guys are ripped to a point that is superhuman. While they are working out all the time, no one should be able to look that huge.

It pains me to say it, but I have a feeling that Brian Dawkins is on some sort of steroids. He had a huge drop-off in 2005, then the last 2 seasons, he has busted out tremendously and returned to his pro-bowl form. He made a flying tackle against the Giants this year where he jumped 7-8 feet headfirst and crushed some guy. This is at age 33. While Dawk was always a bit of a freak, it doesn't make sense...

[frogstomp]

People who say Merriman's results are solely based on his steroid usage are either Merriman haters or too foolish to understand how steroids effect a person.

That's not something I approve of or condone, but he failed one test, and took full accountability for it.

a) As soon as you said 'hater', i stopped taking your post seriously.

b) No he didn't. He made up excuses. That's not taking "full accountability".

[JK17]

a) As soon as you said 'hater', i stopped taking your post seriously.

b) No he didn't. He made up excuses. That's not taking "full accountability".

A) I say hater for lack of a better word, and yeah to be honest that's proabably the first time I used that word in my life, so wow sorry. When you disregard an entire post based one word, I stop taking you seriously.

B) He said there was still a lot to be seen--which there was--and dropped his appeal of the suspension. He served his time, and apologized. That's full accountability.

[bearsfan_51]

I'm much more concerned with guys that drive drunk or beat their wives than I am with who takes steroids. Both are serious issues, but the former is more destructive to society and other people.

[UKfan]

I'm much more concerned with guys that drive drunk or beat their wives than I am with who takes steroids. Both are serious issues, but the former is more destructive to society and other people.


Actually a very good point well made.

[Shiver]

I don't doubt that there is rampant use of illegal substances across many of these major sports. Even with all the work that these people do, humans aren't supposed to get that big. Physiologically, it's not supposed to happen. There are photos from last year's combine. Mario Williams and Bunkley and a lot of other guys are ripped to a point that is superhuman. While they are working out all the time, no one should be able to look that huge.

It pains me to say it, but I have a feeling that Brian Dawkins is on some sort of steroids. He had a huge drop-off in 2005, then the last 2 seasons, he has busted out tremendously and returned to his pro-bowl form. He made a flying tackle against the Giants this year where he jumped 7-8 feet headfirst and crushed some guy. This is at age 33. While Dawk was always a bit of a freak, it doesn't make sense...

Ignorance is bliss. The fact of the matter is; it's easier to disregard 'it,' because unlike Baseball, there is no tangible evidence that steroids are impacting the game. Other than player size, speed, ratio. Whereas in Baseball, records were being annihilated. To the point that it became impossible to not recognize what was going on.

[Bengals1690]

Ive got a question, what steriod did merriman get caught with, cause as i recall it just triggered the "steriod/illegal substance" catagory, i dont ever remember hearing it was straight steriods


i belive he took a substance that had an illeagal fat burner in it. It wasn't steriods, but it undoubtedly helped his performance.

[frogstomp]

I'm much more concerned with guys that drive drunk or beat their wives than I am with who takes steroids. Both are serious issues, but the former is more destructive to society and other people.

What if a steroids user becomes an evil incredible hulk?

Boy will your face be red.

[Space Ghost]

My rugby coach uses hGH and he used to buy his from eBay, haha. I know about 3 people who use steroids and about a dozen who use hGH and then a few more that used to. My friend's uncle played D-I college ball in the 70s and said that entire teams were loaded on steroids and I am going to assume that a few of them went on to play in the NFL and continued using those banned substances. I really don't care because it is obvious that the best player of all time, Brian Moorman isn't using anything other than a healthy diet of goat.

[njx9]

i'm surprised by how many people seem to be ready to turn the other cheek to steroids use. as much as i hate merriman for being a charger, he's a proven steroids user. none of the other guys listed have tested positive for it. if we're talking about steroids alone (the banned ones), that's seriously damning. if we want to shift the argument and talk solely about HGH, that's a COMPLETELY different argument. further, it seems odd to me that people would simply not care. would it take a 300 lb running back who's running a 4.2 shattering every running record to make this worth discussing? how about when your son goes out for the high school team and has to start taking various "supplements" just to stay competitive with other 16 year olds?

i just don't see how this stuff can't be a big deal.

[BlindSite]

Exactly saying stuff like "I'm sure osi, peppers and Ware use them" is down right foolish and thats what the problem with people like Merriman is.

He can't achieve the heights those around him are, so he cheats, he uses steroids. Then when he's called on it, and he's caught people say "big deal I'm sure these guys are" He's tarnishing the sport and other players.

[bigbluedefense]

Exactly saying stuff like "I'm sure osi, peppers and Ware use them" is down right foolish and thats what the problem with people like Merriman is.

He can't achieve the heights those around him are, so he cheats, he uses steroids. Then when he's called on it, and he's caught people say "big deal I'm sure these guys are" He's tarnishing the sport and other players.

The thing is...do you honestly think that Merriman is the only one using illegal substances? Let's not be so naive to point the finger and raise our nose and say that no one on our team is doing it. Because chances are, there is someone on our respective teams doing it. And probably not just some joe shmo, but a high profile player at that.

Jansen publicly said that he thinks 40 % of the LEAGUE is on HGH. That means a little less than half of each of our teams are using illegal substances.

Is it that farfetched to believe him? We gave Consaco the cold shoulder, we gave Oakley the cold shoulder when he said 70% of the NBA does weed, but we believe them after the fact. Could Jansen be the next in line?

We just seen evidence of the Steeler's physician buy a boatload of steroids and HGH from that pharmacy that got raided. Who do you think was using it? It doesn't take a genius to do the math.

Its absolutely wrong, and it is a problem. Theres no debating that. Im not saying that its ok. What Im saying is, its not just a Shawne Merriman problem, its not just a San Diego problem, its a LEAGUE problem. Just because Merriman was the only idiot to get caught, doesn't mean he's the only one. Im not gonna sit here and destroy Merriman knowing full well that theres a good chance that some guys on my own team are using performance enhancing drugs themselves. It would be hypocritical of me.

I can condone it, I can view him as less of a talent because he did in fact get caught whereas others haven't, but Im not gonna assume that the rest of the league is clean and Merriman is the only dirty player out there.

[JK17]

i'm surprised by how many people seem to be ready to turn the other cheek to steroids use. as much as i hate merriman for being a charger, he's a proven steroids user. none of the other guys listed have tested positive for it. if we're talking about steroids alone (the banned ones), that's seriously damning. if we want to shift the argument and talk solely about HGH, that's a COMPLETELY different argument. further, it seems odd to me that people would simply not care. would it take a 300 lb running back who's running a 4.2 shattering every running record to make this worth discussing? how about when your son goes out for the high school team and has to start taking various "supplements" just to stay competitive with other 16 year olds?

i just don't see how this stuff can't be a big deal.

I know i may sound like im trying to turn the other cheek to the steroid argument, but I'm not. Obviosuly it's a huge problem in the league, but it doesn't stem from just Merriman. It doesn't make it okay or justifiable for him to do it, just because he is the only not guilty one, but he doesn't deserve to be the poster-boy for steroids when a good amount of other players are using them. How much have we heard about Hollis Thomas getting suspended for steroids this year? The Saints were a NFC championship team but little is made of Hollis Thomas' abuse because he isn't the same caliber player Merriman is. It's an issue that the NFL has to address, but with all its players, not just Merriman, who's been clean both before and since the incident occurred.

[JK17]

Exactly saying stuff like "I'm sure osi, peppers and Ware use them" is down right foolish and thats what the problem with people like Merriman is.

He can't achieve the heights those around him are, so he cheats, he uses steroids. Then when he's called on it, and he's caught people say "big deal I'm sure these guys are" He's tarnishing the sport and other players.

1.Maybe he can't achieve the heights around him because other athlete's use steriods/HGH too...

2. When he's called on it and he's caught, like you say, other people say "big deal i'm sure these guys are". He doesn't. He embarassed himself by failing the steroid test, but he's only tarnishing himself, he's not the one casting blame on the other players, some of which are guilty of the same things he is.

[BlindSite]

Fact is, there's a distinct possibility that they're using HGH or steroids. There's also a possibility that they're aliens, or they like to rape old women. Its not what you can speculate. Its what you can prove. Until you can prove, peppers, osi or anyone else uses steroids don't tarnish their name.

They're good players and in the case of Peppers and Urlacher, very good, humble people. Don't drag their name through the mud because you've got a farfetched idea just because someone in the league does something.

Find proof, then rip them down.

[JK17]

Fact is, there's a distinct possibility that they're using HGH or steroids. There's also a possibility that they're aliens, or they like to rape old women. Its not what you can speculate. Its what you can prove. Until you can prove, peppers, osi or anyone else uses steroids don't tarnish their name.

They're good players and in the case of Peppers and Urlacher, very good, humble people. Don't drag their name through the mud because you've got a farfetched idea just because someone in the league does something.

Find proof, then rip them down.


Cmon, your gonna say theres no difference between speculating that NFL players use steroids, and specualting they are alines who rape women? Nobody has proved that Barry Bonds uses steroids, does that mean he doesn't? I don't think he was specifically calling out those players, he was giving examples of high profile players who for all we know could be under the influence of such drugs. That's not an accusation of those players, it's a suggestion that those caliber players may be that good because of illegal help.

EDIT: BTW, i forgot to mention this, but Peppers DID fail a steroid test in 2002, and had to serve a 4-game suspension for it. There's proof.

[yourfavestoner]

I know i may sound like im trying to turn the other cheek to the steroid argument, but I'm not. Obviosuly it's a huge problem in the league, but it doesn't stem from just Merriman. It doesn't make it okay or justifiable for him to do it, just because he is the only not guilty one, but he doesn't deserve to be the poster-boy for steroids when a good amount of other players are using them. How much have we heard about Hollis Thomas getting suspended for steroids this year? The Saints were a NFC championship team but little is made of Hollis Thomas' abuse because he isn't the same caliber player Merriman is. It's an issue that the NFL has to address, but with all its players, not just Merriman, who's been clean both before and since the incident occurred.

Hollis Thomas tested positive because he has severe asthma, and albuterol (the substance in asthma inhalers) is a steroid.

EDIT: BTW, i forgot to mention this, but Peppers DID fail a steroid test in 2002, and had to serve a 4-game suspension for it. There's proof.

Peppers tested positive for ephedra, which is an illegal weight loss supplement.

[draftguru151]

Hollis Thomas tested positive because he has severe asthma, and albuterol (the substance in asthma inhalers) is a steroid.



Peppers tested positive for ephedra, which is an illegal weight loss supplement.

I would not pass a steroid test.

[JK17]

Hollis Thomas tested positive because he has severe asthma, and albuterol (the substance in asthma inhalers) is a steroid.



Peppers tested positive for ephedra, which is an illegal weight loss supplement.

And Merriman tested positive for Nandralone, something that can be naturally produced by your body when too much creatine is taken. Excuses can be made for everyone, Peppers was taking a banned substance as was Hollis Thomas, whether for good reasons or not, they too violated the league substance abuse policy.

[bigbluedefense]

I would not pass a steroid test.

You'd tear my ass up if we every played against each other. So I wouldn't be surprised, lol. Besides, Beast has those mutant genes that will alter your urine sample.

[njx9]

there are too many relevant posts to quote, so i'm not going to:

the fact is, merriman got caught. you'd be a hypocrite if you screamed bloody murder at him and then STATED that no one on your team was doing it. you're not a hypocrite for wanting to nail a guy who got caught for it. but there's nothing ok or right with what merriman did, unless you feel that steroids should be legal league wide.

[Shiver]

Fact is, there's a distinct possibility that they're using HGH or steroids. There's also a possibility that they're aliens, or they like to rape old women. Its not what you can speculate. Its what you can prove. Until you can prove, peppers, osi or anyone else uses steroids don't tarnish their name.

They're good players and in the case of Peppers and Urlacher, very good, humble people. Don't drag their name through the mud because you've got a farfetched idea just because someone in the league does something.

Find proof, then rip them down.

The proof is there, for all to see. While not a failed test, logic is all that is needed to suspect them of use. In the steroid culture, that society is in right now, any freak athlete is presumed guilty. Barry Bonds hasn't technically failed a test either. In fact; Football players are even bigger, stronger, faster, than Baseball players. The only difference is, the scrutiny in Baseball, hasn't made it to the NFL yet. It will eventually.

The measure ables in this era defy reason. To assume these people, (a fact that is all too forgotten), get to be this big, strong, fast, explosive, naturally, is ignorant. Not an insult, more so, unintentionally ignorant. We all want to believe what we are seeing is legit, to a fault. Our judgment is impaired. This past decade has seen the proliferation in these supermen. All the while, the average, unsuspecting person, is ignorant. Football, right now, is where Baseball was during the '90s. Where popularity is so high, no one cares that these people are obviously unnaturally strong, and fast.

[frogstomp]

The measure ables in this era defy reason.

Not really. With around 1700 players that are active in the NFL, even if you say all of these players are from *only* America, you still have 298,444,215 people to choose from. Let's cut that in half, since only Men play football. 149 222 108. Then, let's take 1/4 of that, since that's about how may people play football. 37 305 526. Now, that means about .00004% of people that play football are "freak" athletes. That isn't even close to being a number too high to believe. That's about 4 out of every 100 000 people being a freakishly good athletic specimen (once again, assuming that only Americans can play football... and that's also assuming every person in the NFL is a freakishly athletic specimen, which is also quite untrue. However, that will balance it out for the "freakishly athletic" players in other sports).

Now, I am not denying that a hell of a lot of NFL players are doing steroids, but the law averages state that someone like a Julius Peppers could be, and probably would be, naturally born.

[Shiver]

See, I don't buy that. Considering the size:speed ratio, contrasted to even twenty years ago. It is such a large gap, that is just too convenient, especially when all evidence is there to suggest that steroids have been proliferating in that same twenty year time-span.

[frogstomp]

See, I don't buy that. Considering the size:speed ratio, contrasted to even twenty years ago. It is such a large gap, that is just too convenient, especially when all evidence is there to suggest that steroids have been proliferating in that same twenty year time-span.

Once again, I'm not saying that a lot of players don't use steroids, and that steroids haven't made a lot of players into that "upper level." But, I still say that you are going to have freakish athletes naturally born. Just like you have children born with no skin or three arms... crazy **** happens.

[Shiver]

I understand that. It's just, back twenty years ago, the freak athletes wouldn't even generate buzz now.

[Moses]

Hollis Thomas tested positive because he has severe asthma, and albuterol (the substance in asthma inhalers) is a steroid.


There's basically a big scandal involved in these so-called "asthma inhalers" when used by professional athletes. There's a very distinct possibility that Hollis Thomas does not have asthma and is just using it as a front to use these performance-enhancers. It is commonplace in other sports (such as running) where more than half the sport is reporting that they have asthma. Something is obviously up.

[frogstomp]

I understand that. It's just, back twenty years ago, the freak athletes wouldn't even generate buzz now.

I don't know about that, you would have to look through all the numbers. Also, their measurables weren't as closely speculated on, or cared about. It was simply their football ability that mattered. Do you think that 20 years ago people were going to track camps to try and lower their 40 for the combine? They'd lift weights, but there's a difference between working out to be in shape for football and working out to lift weights. Measurables are more important to the Owners and Coaches now, so the players spend a lot more time on lifting good and running fast than they used to.

Anyways, I agree that a lot of players are juicing, however the odds are that there would be a number of natural born athletes that were 'freaks of nature'. Some of them may have taken steroids on top of that, and some may not have, but the odds are still there. So you can't say "He's a beast, he must be on roids".

[bsaza2358]

Fact is, almost all of these players are gifted natural athletes to begin with. The juice helps them take that amazing talent and make it superhuman. If everyone were off the roids, Merriman would likely still have a dominating performance. With most top talented players on steroids, the cream still rises to the top. For those not on roids, they are pressured into doing so because of the need to keep their jobs and livelihood. Vicious cycle to be sure.