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RaiderNation
11-03-2010, 11:39 PM
Might as well make the thread early. Won't make my prediction until Sunday before the game.

Cable is saying Gradkowski will start if healthy, Nnamdi is still up in the air and likely will be a game time decision. I think we will be fine without him if our pass rush can keep it up. We are currently tied for 3rd in the league in sacks with 24.

Black Bolt
11-04-2010, 12:05 PM
Might as well make the thread early. Won't make my prediction until Sunday before the game.

Cable is saying Gradkowski will start if healthy, Nnamdi is still up in the air and likely will be a game time decision. I think we will be fine without him if our pass rush can keep it up. We are currently tied for 3rd in the league in sacks with 24.

Don't lose site of the backs, keep Castle in the pocket and make him beat us with his arm. We can't afford for the front seven to get out of their rush lanes. McClain and Mitchell have to be stoppers.

RaiderNation
11-04-2010, 01:00 PM
Our run defense has been playing great over the past 4 games. We gave up a long run to Frank Gore that made him look like he had a great game nut other than that we have been stopping the run

Black Bolt
11-04-2010, 03:38 PM
Our run defense has been playing great over the past 4 games. We gave up a long run to Frank Gore that made him look like he had a great game nut other than that we have been stopping the run

But the D line STILL has to prove it can stop sweeps and stretch plays. They absolutely suck at that for some reason.

RaiderNation
11-04-2010, 08:12 PM
Campbell named the starter again

Stash
11-04-2010, 08:42 PM
Campbell named the starter again
Damn, Bruce needs to get healthy because as much as I'd like it we're not gonna blow teams out every week. When we get into a close game where we have to throw to win, Campbell will be exposed.

Black Bolt
11-05-2010, 07:47 AM
Damn, Bruce needs to get healthy because as much as I'd like it we're not gonna blow teams out every week. When we get into a close game where we have to throw to win, Campbell will be exposed.

Um, hasn't Grad been exposed already? He's a 6 point underdog against a steep staircase. If you want to continue to play musical chairs at the QB spot, make Grad the starter.

_YL_
11-05-2010, 07:05 PM
Officially sold out

RaiderNation
11-05-2010, 07:17 PM
Officially sold out

Link???????

LookItsAlDavis
11-06-2010, 08:17 PM
Bill Williamson reported it on twitter yesterday I think. Anyone know who is calling the game? It would be sweet to have Nantz and Simms do it, that would show the significance of the game. It would be EPIC if Guss Johnson got the call.

vidae
11-06-2010, 08:39 PM
I'm pretty sure the game is Kevin Harlan and Solomon Wilcotts. I really wanted Gus Johnson to do it too. :(

vidae
11-07-2010, 01:06 AM
All kidding aside, good luck tomorrow guys. This should be a great game.

Football is just better when the Chiefs and Raiders have meaningful games against each other.

NotRickJames
11-07-2010, 01:39 AM
Damn, Bruce needs to get healthy because as much as I'd like it we're not gonna blow teams out every week. When we get into a close game where we have to throw to win, Campbell will be exposed.

I agree. Campbell's been good these past two weeks, but who wouldn't be with Darren McFadden blowing up the Earth?

This team will be better when Grad comes back, should be after the bye. Although if Campbell doesn't screw up this week, it'll be his job.

thebow305
11-07-2010, 01:48 AM
Don't mean to troll guys, but seriously.. is Zach Miller gonna man up and play tomorrow!!??

619
11-07-2010, 01:53 AM
Don't mean to troll guys, but seriously.. is Zach Miller gonna man up and play tomorrow!!??

Why would we risk further injury with arguably our best offensive player? Foot injuries are usually a tricky deal. Let the man rest this week and next (bye) and then get him back in there at 100% come week 11.

NotRickJames
11-07-2010, 01:57 AM
Key to the game - stop the run. Raiders have to force Cassel to beat them through the air.

Wait, I'm starting Jamaal Charles in fantasy this week.

619
11-07-2010, 01:59 AM
Key to the game - stop the run. Raiders have to force Cassel to beat them through the air.

Wait, I'm starting Jamaal Charles in fantasy this week.

If you're a real fan, bench him. :)

Paranoidmoonduck
11-07-2010, 01:01 AM
Guy I'm terrified of? Jamaal Charles. I understand that Thomas Jones has been nifty and all, but Charles has been ridiculous this year. He's gotten the 2nd most carries on that team and is still 8th in the league in rushing.

Either way, I'm really excited for the game. I can barely remember the last KC/Oakland game that mattered beyond pride. At any rate, Oakland needs to take a chunk out of KC's division lead now, because the Chiefs aren't going to be greatly tested down the stretch.

NotRickJames
11-07-2010, 01:03 AM
If you're a real fan, bench him. :)

Chris Johnson on a bye. Couldn't get Blount. Donald Brown was the best FA available, followed by Hightower. That's how bad the situation was

Let's just say if the Raiders can win while Charles has a big game, it'd be nice. He's my only hope in fantasy this week, especially given me WR bye week woes.

Guy I'm terrified of? Jamaal Charles. I understand that Thomas Jones has been nifty and all, but Charles has been ridiculous this year. He's gotten the 2nd most carries on that team and is still 8th in the league in rushing.

Ya, Gotta be more worried about Charles. He's got the explosive play ability that Jones, while good, lacks.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-07-2010, 01:08 AM
Not having Nnamdi hurts, but not having Miller hurts more. Heyward-Bey is going to have to have a big game, because there's little else out there that would threaten on a play-action play. Here's hoping Zach somehow makes it onto the field, but I doubt it happens.

A win going into the bye and hopefully getting all those players back from injury would be huge.

619
11-07-2010, 01:12 AM
McClain got fined for dragging Forsett down by the back of the helmet? It wasn't even blatant... stupid NFL

NotRickJames
11-07-2010, 01:12 AM
McClain got fined for dragging Forsett down by the back of the helmet? It wasn't even blatant... stupid NFL

I loved listening to Lynch rip that. He was right on target.

Stash
11-07-2010, 01:31 AM
Not having Nnamdi hurts, but not having Miller hurts more. Heyward-Bey is going to have to have a big game, because there's little else out there that would threaten on a play-action play. Here's hoping Zach somehow makes it onto the field, but I doubt it happens.

A win going into the bye and hopefully getting all those players back from injury would be huge.
I'd say not having Aso hurts more. I'm not down on Bowe as much as a lot of other fans around the league seem to be. I think he could hurt us big time. Also, I don't think missing Miller will make that big a difference because Campbell rarely throws beyond 5 yards. Anybody can catch a pass in the flats. I know I harp on Campbell a lot, I just hate his game.

NotRickJames
11-07-2010, 01:37 AM
I'd say not having Aso hurts more. I'm not down on Bowe as much as a lot of other fans around the league seem to be. I think he could hurt us big time. Also, I don't think missing Miller will make that big a difference because Campbell rarely throws beyond 5 yards. Anybody can catch a pass in the flats. I know I harp on Campbell a lot, I just hate his game.

I got to see Campbell all the time since I live in the DC area. When he has to step up, he's miserable. He's a game manager, that's it. He's not clutch and struggles to lead his team to victories. If our running game is struggling, I'm not optimistic Campbell can win the game for the Raiders.

The loss of Aso hurts more, I feel. He'd be covering Bowe, and fact is, who do the Chiefs have outside of Bowe and Moeaki? Not much. Bowe becomes a legitimate target with the real CJ or Routt on him.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-07-2010, 04:35 AM
If anyone cares to do something a little more communal, there's a joint thread for this game over in the AFC West subforum. Might be kind of nice to have a broader discussion during the game.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2368845#post2368845

RaiderNation
11-07-2010, 12:28 PM
With Miller likely out, I expect alot of 1 TE and 1 extra olinemen sets similar to what we did against Denver when Myers was out. Smash mouth football is the way we are going to win

bernbabybern820
11-07-2010, 03:16 PM
Damn any streams?

RaiderNation
11-07-2010, 03:18 PM
3 and out good **** defense

Xonraider
11-07-2010, 05:53 PM
Where is McClain??

Paranoidmoonduck
11-07-2010, 05:55 PM
Where is McClain??

Injured hip.

vidae
11-07-2010, 07:01 PM
Good game. Good luck the rest of the way.

slightlyaraiderfan
11-07-2010, 07:05 PM
Who is going to buy a Ford jersey?

SwagU
11-07-2010, 07:09 PM
Damn it feels good to be a Raider fan right now. I will forever love Jacoby Ford.

Stash
11-07-2010, 07:13 PM
Great job coming back to win. I have to give Campbell credit for making a couple good throws late in the game (he still sucks though, seriously). Ford should share the game ball with Seymour, they both came up huge.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-07-2010, 07:14 PM
Ford is the player of the week.

304 total yards, 1 TD.

vidae
11-07-2010, 07:21 PM
Jacoby Ford **** on us. He had a field day against Flowers too, not something I'm used to seeing.

This one is going to sting for a while. Do me a favor? Beat the snot out of the next few teams you play.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 08:27 PM
I agree. Campbell's been good these past two weeks, but who wouldn't be with Darren McFadden blowing up the Earth?

This team will be better when Grad comes back, should be after the bye. Although if Campbell doesn't screw up this week, it'll be his job.

Grad could NOT make some of the throws JC did in this game. It's JCs job.

Great job coming back to win. I have to give Campbell credit for making a couple good throws late in the game (he still sucks though, seriously). Ford should share the game ball with Seymour, they both came up huge.

If Grad did exactly what JC did you'd be singing his praises as being clutch while at the same time degrading JC.

bernbabybern820
11-07-2010, 08:37 PM
Grad could NOT make some of the throws JC did in this game. It's JCs job.

True Bruce probably wouldn't be able to fit in a throw into tight space like JC can but it's pretty obvious that he moves the offense better than Campbell. Don't forget that McGraw dropped a gimme interception and Ford stole one away from Flowers.

619
11-07-2010, 08:53 PM
It's clearly Bruce's job when ready.

If healthy, do you think Cable will deny Bruce the opportunity to play in his hometown? I can't foresee that happening. Campbell can't read defenses (or he's very slow at moving through his progressions), so you could imagine the trouble LeBeau's zone-blitz schemes would give. Against that D we need someone who can make the quick read, know how to zip it out to the hot read, and be able to push the ball downfield with relative accuracy. That doesn't sound like anything Campbell is capable of.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 08:56 PM
True Bruce probably wouldn't be able to fit in a throw into tight space like JC can but it's pretty obvious that he moves the offense better than Campbell. Don't forget that McGraw dropped a gimme interception and Ford stole one away from Flowers.

Okay, but it's not like Grad is perfect himself. He's thrown some up for grabs as well. His completion % is much lower than JC's, he can't stay healthy and he only excells at improvised play. We needed him when the line wasn't blocking and now that the line is blocking, JC can run the offense. Again, he could NOT make that throw on 1st and 20 to Ford.

Finally, this is the thing everyone seems to miss. If a QB needs to be pulled, do you want Grad giving the team a spark off the bench or JC giving the team a spark off the bench? They are in their right roles currently.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 08:59 PM
It's clearly Bruce's job when ready.

If healthy, do you think Cable will deny Bruce the opportunity to play in his hometown? I can't foresee that happening. Campbell can't read defenses (or he's very slow at moving through his progressions), so you could imagine the trouble LeBeau's zone-blitz schemes would give. Against that D we need someone who can make the quick read, know how to zip it out to the hot read, and be able to push the ball downfield with relative accuracy. That doesn't sound like anything Campbell is capable of.

Campbell is capable of a three game win streak. Campbell can read defenses. Campbell is actually the BETTER scrambler. Campbell can make tough sideline throws with precision. Campbell has a far better completion % and Campbell isn't made out of glass. Let's stop making Grad out to be something he isn't, and that's a starting NFL QB.

619
11-07-2010, 09:01 PM
PMD, RaiderNation and others, get in here. I don't have the patience for this.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 09:02 PM
True Bruce probably wouldn't be able to fit in a throw into tight space like JC can but it's pretty obvious that he moves the offense better than Campbell. Don't forget that McGraw dropped a gimme interception and Ford stole one away from Flowers.

Ford also gave up a long reception or at the very least a PI by not fighting back to the ball early in the game. The TE also got held coming out of this break and on the INT, there was contact by the defender.

Funny how we nitpick Campbell in victories, but I have yet to see anyone nitpick Grad in the same manner.

The bottom line is that no matter how much people like to root for the little guy, he can't be counted on as a starter.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-07-2010, 09:03 PM
What is there to say? Campbell has shown remarkable growth the past three weeks (although two of those weeks were against **** defenses) and even recognizing all that, Gradkowski should still obviously be the starter.

There isn't even a tiny bit of doubt in my mind about that.

Stash
11-07-2010, 09:20 PM
If Grad did exactly what JC did you'd be singing his praises as being clutch while at the same time degrading JC.
No I would not. If Grad did that, I would be criticizing him for playing like ****. But that wasn't Bruce, it was JC who was playing like ****.

Gradkowski has been an average-above average QB for us. He's not great, he has his faults. Having said that, he is still head and shoulders above JC. Campbell was absolutely awful until KC used the prevent defense late. In the three Raider wins, most of his yards were YAC on passes in the flats or totally lucky passes. He made about 3-4 nice throws today, that's it. And I don't know what exactly you're watching to make you think Bruce can't make the same throws. That's just absurd.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 09:21 PM
What is there to say? Campbell has shown remarkable growth the past three weeks (although two of those weeks were against **** defenses) and even recognizing all that, Gradkowski should still obviously be the starter.

There isn't even a tiny bit of doubt in my mind about that.

Well he should show growth from his first start with a new team starting a rookie C on the road at the Titans, wouldn't ya say? Why are you so convinced the little street ball player is a better STARTER than Jason Campbell?

Stash
11-07-2010, 09:27 PM
Campbell is capable of a three game win streak. Campbell can read defenses. Campbell is actually the BETTER scrambler. Campbell can make tough sideline throws with precision. Campbell has a far better completion % and Campbell isn't made out of glass. Let's stop making Grad out to be something he isn't, and that's a starting NFL QB.
A better scrambler?! Every single week he just stands there and gets sacked. He could have avoided 2-3 of the sacks tonight if he wasn't such a big dummy.

As far as his %; bwahahaha did you seriously just say that. You can't just look at the stat sheet without watching the games. The reason he has a better completion % is because he rarely throws the ball beyond 5 yards. Obviously if you checkdown every friggin time you're gonna complete a lot of those.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 09:28 PM
No I would not. If Grad did that, I would be criticizing him for playing like ****. But that wasn't Bruce, it was JC who was playing like ****.

Gradkowski has been an average-above average QB for us. He's not great, he has his faults. Having said that, he is still head and shoulders above JC. Campbell was absolutely awful until KC used the prevent defense late. In the three Raider wins, most of his yards were YAC on passes in the flats or totally lucky passes. He made about 3-4 nice throws today, that's it. And I don't know what exactly you're watching to make you think Bruce can't make the same throws. That's just absurd.

Um, that 1st and 20 to Ford, Grad cannot make. Even some Grad fans have admitted that.

Let's face it, the only reason you guys like Grad is because "he won." Well guess what? Jason just won three in a row. He has more wins than Grad. Furthermore, the last time we saw Grad he looked like utter crap and made some horrible decisions. And please, Jason made more than 3-4 good throws this game. You obviously don't like him, but I think you need to give him his due. He's not Peyton Manning, but neiter is Grad. But now that they line is blocking, we can do MORE on offense with Campbell. Campbell can make the tight throw Grad can't, and, he's better as staying health.

Admit it, you didn't believe he could get it done in this sort of situation and he proved you wrong and everyone else wrong.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 09:31 PM
A better scrambler?! Every single week he just stands there and gets sacked. He could have avoided 2-3 of the sacks tonight if he wasn't such a big dummy.

As far as his %; bwahahaha did you seriously just say that. You can't just look at the stat sheet without watching the games. The reason he has a better completion % is because he rarely throws the ball beyond 5 yards. Obviously if you checkdown every friggin time you're gonna complete a lot of those.

Getting sacks and actually scrambling are two different things. Jason needs to throw the damn ball away instead of running out of bound or getting stacked. And guess what? Grad almost died the last two times he scrambled and tried to play Mr. Tough guy. That's why he is out now. He's NOT a starter, he's a good back up.

Oh, and I believe the man threw the ball more than 5 yards tonight....multiple times.....in the most clutch situations. He makes the plays that are there, not the ones that aren't. I am amazing you would argue with three wins in a row....amazed.

PS: I watch every game, every play and I can tell you all about them.

Stash
11-07-2010, 09:38 PM
Um, that 1st and 20 to Ford, Grad cannot make. Even some Grad fans have admitted that.

Let's face it, the only reason you guys like Grad is because "he won." Well guess what? Jason just won three in a row. He has more wins than Grad. Furthermore, the last time we saw Grad he looked like utter crap and made some horrible decisions. And please, Jason made more than 3-4 good throws this game. You obviously don't like him, but I think you need to give him his due. He's not Peyton Manning, but neiter is Grad. But now that they line is blocking, we can do MORE on offense with Campbell. Campbell can make the tight throw Grad can't, and, he's better as staying health.

Admit it, you didn't believe he could get it done in this sort of situation and he proved you wrong and everyone else wrong.
1st, yes, Grad could probably make that throw.

2nd, no I don't like Grad just because he won. If I only liked a QB when a team won, then I'd be here singing praise for Campbell because the Raiders just won 3 in a row with him behind center. But I'm not doing that because it is clear as day that Bruce is a better QB and the Raiders are winning despite Campbell, not because of him. And no, Campbell did not make more than 3-4 good throws, you obviously just have some kind of man crush on him. Grad can make the tight throws that Campbell throws 10 feet wide or right to a defender, I think you need to give Bruce his due.

The only thing Campbell proved is that he isn't very good at throwing a football. The Raiders won today mostly because of good D, a big ST play, and 3-4 good throws from the QB late in the game. If he was halfway competent, he wouldn't have sucked for 3.5 quarters.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 09:45 PM
1st, yes, Grad could probably make that throw.

2nd, no I don't like Grad just because he won. If I only liked a QB when a team won, then I'd be here singing praise for Campbell because the Raiders just won 3 in a row with him behind center. But I'm not doing that because it is clear as day that Bruce is a better QB and the Raiders are winning despite Campbell, not because of him. And no, Campbell did not make more than 3-4 good throws, you obviously just have some kind of man crush on him. Grad can make the tight throws that Campbell throws 10 feet wide or right to a defender, I think you need to give Bruce his due.

The only thing Campbell proved is that he isn't very good at throwing a football. The Raiders won today mostly because of good D, a big ST play, and 3-4 good throws from the QB late in the game. If he was halfway competent, he wouldn't have sucked for 3.5 quarters.

I have a man crush on Campbell?? LMAO!!! And what do you call your infatuation with the little journeyman who caught lighting in a bottle on his 4th team??? At least I just offered some criticism of Campbell. I have yet to see you do the same regarding Bruce Alrighty.

Look, I can't argue with you on this anymore. You are far too willing to abandon logic and ignore certain evidence that is starting you square in the face. Campbell has a better completion %, more wins, he lead the team to three consecutive victories, a record number of points, a record yardage total, he proved he could be clutch and bring the team from behind and yet it's clear to you that Grad is head and shoulders a better QB even though he can't stay healthy and three other teams sent him packing. Have fun being right!

Stash
11-07-2010, 09:46 PM
Getting sacks and actually scrambling are two different things. Jason needs to throw the damn ball away instead of running out of bound or getting stacked. And guess what? Grad almost died the last two times he scrambled and tried to play Mr. Tough guy. That's why he is out now. He's NOT a starter, he's a good back up.

Oh, and I believe the man threw the ball more than 5 yards tonight....multiple times.....in the most clutch situations. He makes the plays that are there, not the ones that aren't. I am amazing you would argue with three wins in a row....amazed.

PS: I watch every game, every play and I can tell you all about them.
If he was a good scrambler he would be able to avoid more sacks, it's that simple. The only valid point you've made is that Bruce gets hurt a lot, but that's hardly a good reason not to start a guy. Putting the better QB on the bench because you're scared he might get hurt is idiotic.

He did throw the ball more than 5 yards, what's your point? I said he rarely throws beyond 5 yards which he proved again tonight. Maybe you should read a little more carefully before you post.

There are plenty of plays there, and Campbell consistently doesn't make them. I'm amazed you're trying to give Campbell credit for the 3 wins when he was clearly holding us back each and every time.

Stash
11-07-2010, 09:53 PM
I have a man crush on Campbell?? LMAO!!! And what do you call your infatuation with the little journeyman who caught lighting in a bottle on his 4th team??? At least I just offered some criticism of Campbell. I have yet to see you do the same regarding Bruce Alrighty.
I've critisized Bruce on several occasions in the past when he was playing. I even said he was just an average-above average QB for us. I can't criticize him now because he didn't play; Campbell did and he sucked except for a few plays late.


Look, I can't argue with you on this anymore. You are far too willing to abandon logic and ignore certain evidence that is starting you square in the face. Campbell has a better completion %, more wins, he lead the team to three consecutive victories, a record number of points, a record yardage total, he proved he could be clutch and bring the team from behind and yet it's clear to you that Grad is head and shoulders a better QB even though he can't stay healthy and three other teams sent him packing. Have fun being right!
Me abandon logic? That is absolutely hilarious. In this very paragraph you defy logic left and right. I already told you why Campbell has the better completion % but you're still clinging to it, you're giving him credit for 3 wins and all those points that he had almost nothing to do with. The vast majority of that was DMC + Bush playing like monsters. Campbell just turned and handed them the ball or dumped it to them in the flats. Have fun being wrong!

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 10:01 PM
If he was a good scrambler he would be able to avoid more sacks, it's that simple. The only valid point you've made is that Bruce gets hurt a lot, but that's hardly a good reason not to start a guy. Putting the better QB on the bench because you're scared he might get hurt is idiotic.

He did throw the ball more than 5 yards, what's your point? I said he rarely throws beyond 5 yards which he proved again tonight. Maybe you should read a little more carefully before you post.

There are plenty of plays there, and Campbell consistently doesn't make them. I'm amazed you're trying to give Campbell credit for the 3 wins when he was clearly holding us back each and every time.

Well, this is getting downright silly, but Grad averages 2.6 a rush and Campbell averages 3.6, but I have a feeling you will either explain away or completely ignore this fact as you have the others. You are emotionally attached to Gradkowski because he gave us hope when it appears there was none. His time has passed. We have changed the O-line and some of the young players like Reece and Ford have stepped it up on offense. The defense is playing much better and Jackson has gotten into a Groove. We don't need Grad's wreckless plays anymore. We need boring Jason to run the offense and keep winning and we need Grad to hold on tight to that clipboard and be ready to go. Raider on!

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 10:08 PM
I've critisized Bruce on several occasions in the past when he was playing. I even said he was just an average-above average QB for us. I can't criticize him now because he didn't play; Campbell did and he sucked except for a few plays late.


Me abandon logic? That is absolutely hilarious. In this very paragraph you defy logic left and right. I already told you why Campbell has the better completion % but you're still clinging to it, you're giving him credit for 3 wins and all those points that he had almost nothing to do with. The vast majority of that was DMC + Bush playing like monsters. Campbell just turned and handed them the ball or dumped it to them in the flats. Have fun being wrong!

So what?? Where is it written that the wins are less meaningful if the QB doesn't take over the game single handedly? What's wrong with dumping the ball off to a weapon like McFadden? What's wrong with running up the score and moving the ball to 500+ yards of offense? What's wrong with taking what the defense is serving up on a platter? And if you think Jason had little to do with this win, you are delusional in your lovefest for Gradkowski. JC had everything to do with this win. The last time I checked, he threw all 6 of Ford's receptions including the ones to set up each FG to put the game in overtime and win the game in overtime. Now stop, this is embarassing. You would be happy with the win and the division lead as a Raiders fan.

Campbell just turned and handed them the ball or dumped it to them in the flats.

"Just" win, baby!

Stash
11-07-2010, 10:09 PM
Well, this is getting downright silly, but Grad averages 2.6 a rush and Campbell averages 3.6, but I have a feeling you will either explain away or completely ignore this fact as you have the others. You are emotionally attached to Gradkowski because he gave us hope when it appears there was none. His time has passed. We have changed the O-line and some of the young players like Reece and Ford have stepped it up on offense. The defense is playing much better and Jackson has gotten into a Groove. We don't need Grad's wreckless plays anymore. We need boring Jason to run the offense and keep winning and we need Grad to hold on tight to that clipboard and be ready to go. Raider on!
Averaging a yard more per run doesn't change the fact that Campbell routinely stands in the pocket holding onto the ball far too long when he should be scrambling. Bruce has been guilty of that at times as well, but Campbell does it much more often. You are emotionally attached to Campbell because the Raiders have won 3 games in a row when he started. The defense is playing better, now we need a better QB who can help us win games instead of being liability and forcing everyone else to pick up the slack.

Stash
11-07-2010, 10:18 PM
So what?? Where is it written that the wins are less meaningful if the QB doesn't take over the game single handedly? What's wrong with dumping the ball off to a weapon like McFadden? What's wrong with running up the score and moving the ball to 500+ yards of offense? What's wrong with taking what the defense is serving up on a platter? And if you think Jason had little to do with this win, you are delusional in your lovefest for Gradkowski. JC had everything to do with this win. The last time I checked, he threw all 6 of Ford's receptions including the ones to set up each FG to put the game in overtime and win the game in overtime. Now stop, this is embarassing. You would be happy with the win and the division lead as a Raiders fan.

Campbell just turned and handed them the ball or dumped it to them in the flats.

"Just" win, baby!
Nobody has said the wins are less meaningful, I only said Campbell didn't do much to get them. It's a knock on Campbell not the team. Nothing's wrong with dumping the ball to McFaddenn unless it's the only thing you know how to do. Nothing's wrong with 500 yards of offense, I love it, but Campbell didn't have much to do with it. If you think Jason was responsible for this win, you are delusional in your lovefest for him. The fact that the only compliment you have for him is completing 6 passes and 2 field goals says it all. Now stop, this is embarrassing. I am happy with the Raiders win, I just find it silly that you're trying to give the QB credit for it when it was the rest of the team doing most of the work.

It's kind of funny, in most of you're post you basically admitted that Campbell doesn't do much. Thanks for helping me make my point.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 10:26 PM
Averaging a yard more per run doesn't change the fact that Campbell routinely stands in the pocket holding onto the ball far too long when he should be scrambling. Bruce has been guilty of that at times as well, but Campbell does it much more often. You are emotionally attached to Campbell because the Raiders have won 3 games in a row when he started. The defense is playing better, now we need a better QB who can help us win games instead of being liability and forcing everyone else to pick up the slack.

I actually, I knew Campbell was the better QB years ago. Who didn't know that?

So in your mind, McFadden's career year is a result of "taking up the slack?" Nice. I don't know if you know this or not, but there are 11 men on offense and they are all expected to do their jobs. Maybe not you, but I am estatic to see that the other 10 on offense are doing their jobs.

619
11-07-2010, 10:30 PM
RC3, is that you? Nvm, this guy appears to be literate, though egregious at times.

From Russell to Campbell, why do some people continue to think these guys are/were good? Or more laughable, that we are better off with them? Seems nonsensical.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 10:33 PM
Nobody has said the wins are less meaningful, I only said Campbell didn't do much to get them. It's a knock on Campbell not the team. Nothing's wrong with dumping the ball to McFaddenn unless it's the only thing you know how to do. Nothing's wrong with 500 yards of offense, I love it, but Campbell didn't have much to do with it. If you think Jason was responsible for this win, you are delusional in your lovefest for him. The fact that the only compliment you have for him is completing 6 passes and 2 field goals says it all. Now stop, this is embarrassing. I am happy with the Raiders win, I just find it silly that you're trying to give the QB credit for it when it was the rest of the team doing most of the work.

It's kind of funny, in most of you're post you basically admitted that Campbell doesn't do much. Thanks for helping me make my point.

First off, I never said that Campbell was solely responsible for the win, so you can take back the words you just put in my mouth. Secondly, it's you that is saying that Campbell had little to nothing to do with the wins, and there hasn't been a more idiotic statement made in the history of mankind. You obviously didn't see clutch throw after clutch throw in the fourth quarter of tonight's game......oh wait, you did and you bitched about the first three quarters.

I give credit to Campbell for his play on the field. You give credit to Gradkowski for "moving the ball." Oh yeah, he does that all by his lonesome but Campbell does it some other way. That makes perfect sense to a lunatic.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 10:34 PM
RC3, is that you? Nvm, this guy appears to be literate, though egregious at times.

From Russell to Campbell, why do some people continue to think these guys are/were good? Or more laughable, that we are better off with them? Seems nonsensical.

What exactly is the link between Russell and Campbell as you see it?

_YL_
11-07-2010, 10:36 PM
So besides enjoying this win there are people arguing over who is better QB really in a week argue about that but now sit back and enjoy the win.

619
11-07-2010, 10:41 PM
What exactly is the link between Russell and Campbell as you see it?

Easy. The fact that our team has to continually rally and keep their asses in the game, mostly because of their play, or lack thereof. The exception with Campbell being that he's shown he can take advantage of subpar NFL defenses, thus making him a serviceable option at QB. Bruce has a better pocket presence, is willing to push the ball into the intermediate/deep zones of the field, and knows how to get all receivers involved in the game, not just locking onto one receiver. Did I mention accuracy? No I didn't. Yeah, that too. Pretty underrated aspect of a Hue Jackson offense. Campbell is usually spotty, in that regard.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-07-2010, 10:43 PM
Well he should show growth from his first start with a new team starting a rookie C on the road at the Titans, wouldn't ya say? Why are you so convinced the little street ball player is a better STARTER than Jason Campbell?

Because, historically, he's done a whole lot more with a whole lot less as a Raider, he's earned the right to be the starter going into the Pittsburgh game, the team plays at a much higher tempo with him out there, he's the best leader we have, and he makes the pass attack dangerous in a way Campbell hasn't been able to. That enough for you.

You can detract from Bruce's physical abilities by calling him a street player, but that doesn't really mean anything, now does it? Bruce Gradkowski is a better quarterback than Campbell, period. I don't care whether he's starting or coming off the bench. I don't tend to say that a guy should start because the guy behind him sure will be awesome when he replaces my starter.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 10:57 PM
Because, historically, he's done a whole lot more with a whole lot less as a Raider, he's earned the right to be the starter going into the Pittsburgh game, the team plays at a much higher tempo with him out there, he's the best leader we have, and he makes the pass attack dangerous in a way Campbell hasn't been able to. That enough for you.

You can detract from Bruce's physical abilities by calling him a street player, but that doesn't really mean anything, now does it? Bruce Gradkowski is a better quarterback than Campbell, period. I don't care whether he's starting or coming off the bench. I don't tend to say that a guy should start because the guy behind him sure will be awesome when he replaces my starter.

Yes, it does mean something and that's why I said it. If you would LISTEN, I am giving him credit for what HE does best, and that's improvise and keep plays alive when the line is not good enough to do so the conventional way. You know, like you draw it up.

Now that the line IS blocking, the younger players are gaining experience and Jackson has a better sense of what he has on offense, I believe that Campbell is CLEARLY the better QB to execute a play action, deep passing system. Grad plays a little quicker overall, but he can't stay healthy and he can't throw into tight windows. The line is giving Campbell enough time and with that, he's the better QB.

Grad may have done more with less, but Campbell with do MORE with more.

619
11-07-2010, 11:04 PM
Where did you get this imaginitive sense that Gradkowski can't fit the ball into tight windows? We all here have seen him do it routinely while in action. The only issue I have with Gradkowski, aside from his brittleness, is the tipped balls at the LOS. But I can't really blame him there, because for every one of those plays, he more than makes up for it with his knack for moving the ball and keeping the defense fresh on the sidelines. Something we will continue to need as the games get tighter into November and December.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 11:09 PM
Where did you get this imaginitive sense that Gradkowski can't fit the ball into tight windows? We all here have seen him do it routinely while in action. The only issue I have with Gradkowski, aside from his brittleness, is the tipped balls at the LOS. But I can't really blame him there, because for every one of those plays, he more than makes up for it with his knack for moving the ball and keeping the defense fresh on the sidelines. Something we will continue to need as the games get tighter into November and December.

Um, brittleness will keep you out of games. Not being able to be counted on does not equate to being a starter. What makes you think he is a starter and why did 3 other teams give him away?

As far as throwing into windows, Cambpell has a stronger arm, a better vantage point because of his height and is just better at it.

By the way, BEFORE thing game, we were leading the NFL in 4th quarter TOP.

Xonraider
11-07-2010, 11:11 PM
Campbell is capable of a three game win streak. Campbell can read defenses. Campbell is actually the BETTER scrambler. Campbell can make tough sideline throws with precision. Campbell has a far better completion % and Campbell isn't made out of glass. Let's stop making Grad out to be something he isn't, and that's a starting NFL QB.

Come on, how can you seriosuly look at todays game and say Jason played well? He was terrible. He almost threw an interception on the play to set up the game tying field goal, he got lucky. And then on the final drive the long pass to Ford was probably his only good throw, but he missed Heyward-Bey horribly on a crossing route, stood there like an idiot in the pocket, threw one horrible interception and kept throwing into double coverage plenty of times during the game. On 33 attempts he threw 229 yards, I mean really.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 11:16 PM
Come on, how can you seriosuly look at todays game and say Jason played well? He was terrible. He almost threw an interception on the play to set up the game tying field goal, he got lucky. And then on the final drive the long pass to Ford was probably his only good throw, but he missed Heyward-Bey horribly on a crossing route, stood there like an idiot in the pocket, threw one horrible interception and kept throwing into double coverage plenty of times during the game. On 33 attempts he threw 229 yards, I mean really.

I didn't say he played well for the entire game, did I? On the crossing route, he was HIT by the defender when the threw it. And how can you sit there and claim he only has one good throw for the game? What about the sideline comback routes he hit with perfect timing? HE turned it up when everything counted. I am shocked at how many people want to mess with success.

NotRickJames
11-07-2010, 11:16 PM
Campbell played OK today...... got away with a few throws, could've been worse. The throw to Ford was nice, but was one that pretty much any NFL quarterback could have made. A couple of his throws on the sideline were nice too, but that was about it.

Consider that the offensive line has been better for JC than for Grad. Grad didn't have Gallery, and Veldheer is now just coming on. He was getting abused when Grad was in the lineup.

I honestly believe we would have won in regulation by a touchdown or two if Grad started.

I hope we go back to him after the bye. He's the leader this team needs right now.

Game ball obviously goes to Jacoby Ford, who made two huge plays.

Black Bolt
11-07-2010, 11:26 PM
Campbell played OK today...... got away with a few throws, could've been worse. The throw to Ford was nice, but was one that pretty much any NFL quarterback could have made. A couple of his throws on the sideline were nice too, but that was about it.

Consider that the offensive line has been better for JC than for Grad. Grad didn't have Gallery, and Veldheer is now just coming on. He was getting abused when Grad was in the lineup.

I honestly believe we would have won in regulation by a touchdown or two if Grad started.

I hope we go back to him after the bye. He's the leader this team needs right now.

Game ball obviously goes to Jacoby Ford, who made two huge plays.

You and others feel that way, but I don't automatically make that assumption. Grad may or may not have played better- or he might not have finished the game. The thing it, Jason can run the offense more like it's designed to be run. When you consider that and then the durability, he's the bettetr QB NOW as opposed to then. Just MO.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-07-2010, 11:32 PM
If that's the case, that he actually fits what Jackson wants to do much better, than I'm sure Campbell will get the start against Pitt. What I do know is that Cable has been pretty clear that it's Bruce's job when he comes back, so I'm not really sure the coaching staff is as convinced as you seem to be.

RaiderNation
11-07-2010, 11:33 PM
Its clear to me after this game that we are the best team in the division, no doubt about it. We were with out our franchise CB, pro bowl TE, starting QB, and 1 starting WR and still could win. Campbell is a good back up but Gradkowski should be the starter against Pittsburgh. We are going to get so many good players back healthy its going to be crazy.

All I have to say from here on out, Just Win Baby!!!

Paranoidmoonduck
11-07-2010, 11:34 PM
I'd love to believe that, but I'm waiting to see what happens when we face the Chargers without being handed points. That team scares the crap out of me.

619
11-07-2010, 11:37 PM
RaiderNation, don't forget the possibility of Schilens returning! That makes two returning starters at receiver, unless you believe that DHB will remain in the starting lineup, which is very probable.

NotRickJames
11-07-2010, 11:38 PM
I'm still thinking about the way Gradkowski led us to victory against Pittsburgh last year.

619
11-07-2010, 11:40 PM
I'd love to believe that, but I'm waiting to see what happens when we face the Chargers without being handed points. That team scares the crap out of me.

No kidding. They expose the back end of our defense like no other. But McFadden will go off for 150+ rushing, so I'll call the matchup even for now. :)

619
11-07-2010, 11:41 PM
I'm still thinking about the way Gradkowski led us to victory against Pittsburgh last year.

What about my boy Murph? He had his own Jacoby-like performance in that game.

Stash
11-07-2010, 11:46 PM
I actually, I knew Campbell was the better QB years ago. Who didn't know that?

So in your mind, McFadden's career year is a result of "taking up the slack?" Nice. I don't know if you know this or not, but there are 11 men on offense and they are all expected to do their jobs. Maybe not you, but I am estatic to see that the other 10 on offense are doing their jobs.
McFaddens year is the result of the team giving him the ball and him being healthy. He's been awesome this year and if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have these past 3 wins. I don't need to be told there are 11 men on offense, and I like every Raider fan am glad most of them are playing well. I really don't know where you're going with that as I never said anything otherwise. I guess you're still not grasping the fact that Campbell is not one of the guys playing well.

RaiderNation
11-07-2010, 11:47 PM
Im only afraid of the Chargers passing attack. Their running game has been nothing this year and the defense isnt as good as it used too. If we can get pressure like we have been getting the last 3 games we should give Rivers hell

Cant forget about Chaz, if he can get back to his 100% form, we could be really scary on offence.

One thing that made me mad was DHB didnt do **** today. He had a great week last week but had no catches and a drop today. Hopefully he can bounce back

Stash
11-07-2010, 11:57 PM
First off, I never said that Campbell was solely responsible for the win, so you can take back the words you just put in my mouth. Secondly, it's you that is saying that Campbell had little to nothing to do with the wins, and there hasn't been a more idiotic statement made in the history of mankind. You obviously didn't see clutch throw after clutch throw in the fourth quarter of tonight's game......oh wait, you did and you bitched about the first three quarters.

I give credit to Campbell for his play on the field. You give credit to Gradkowski for "moving the ball." Oh yeah, he does that all by his lonesome but Campbell does it some other way. That makes perfect sense to a lunatic.
In your previous pot you did basically admit that Campbell can't take over a game, that he just dumps it off, and can only take opportunities when the D serves it up on a platter. I know I've been saying Campbell has little to do with the wins and the statements you made previously strengthened my point. Lol @ "clutch" throws. You mean the ones against KC's prevent defense?

Nobody said Bruce does anything all by his lonesome. He throws the ball downfield much more consistently and, unlike Campbell, he doesn't need a WR to have 3+ yards of separation to complete a pass.

Black Bolt
11-08-2010, 08:34 AM
If that's the case, that he actually fits what Jackson wants to do much better, than I'm sure Campbell will get the start against Pitt. What I do know is that Cable has been pretty clear that it's Bruce's job when he comes back, so I'm not really sure the coaching staff is as convinced as you seem to be.

Well, we will have to see how that plays out. Jason was the starter and was pulled after 6 quarters, and it was the right move. It's not the same team now and Jason appears to me to be the better choice. They will have the bye week to make their decision.

Black Bolt
11-08-2010, 08:35 AM
No kidding. They expose the back end of our defense like no other. But McFadden will go off for 150+ rushing, so I'll call the matchup even for now. :)

To me, that gives us the advantage if this coaching staff is worth spit. There is no way we should have all those defensive breakdowns. The S have to play honest and the CB have to understand that the Chargers feature downfield WRs and they need to get their head turned much earlier.

Black Bolt
11-08-2010, 08:40 AM
In your previous pot you did basically admit that Campbell can't take over a game, that he just dumps it off, and can only take opportunities when the D serves it up on a platter. I know I've been saying Campbell has little to do with the wins and the statements you made previously strengthened my point. Lol @ "clutch" throws. You mean the ones against KC's prevent defense?

Nobody said Bruce does anything all by his lonesome. He throws the ball downfield much more consistently and, unlike Campbell, he doesn't need a WR to have 3+ yards of separation to complete a pass.

Sorry, you must be confused. I didn't say he just dumps off balls, you did. The 69 yarder to DHB was anything but a dump off. The last TD pass to Miller was not a dump off. The 74 yarder to Murphy was not a dump off. None of the passes to Ford yesterday were dump offs. And the Chefs D didn't serve anything on a platter. There were defenders in place on all of those plays whether you want to admit it or not. Your bias becomes you.

Black Bolt
11-08-2010, 08:45 AM
McFaddens year is the result of the team giving him the ball and him being healthy. He's been awesome this year and if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have these past 3 wins. I don't need to be told there are 11 men on offense, and I like every Raider fan am glad most of them are playing well. I really don't know where you're going with that as I never said anything otherwise. I guess you're still not grasping the fact that Campbell is not one of the guys playing well.

You are criticizing Campbell for taking what the defense is giving which is known as smart football. You have a problem with that which tells me you have a problem with the fact that our team is winning with Campbell at the helm. I don't know what sort of bias you have against him, but it's disturbing. We are coming off a much needed 3 game win streak, the first since 2002 and you are questioning how we are doing it rather than enjoying the victory. Unbelievable.

Black Bolt
11-08-2010, 08:48 AM
In your previous pot you did basically admit that Campbell can't take over a game, that he just dumps it off, and can only take opportunities when the D serves it up on a platter. I know I've been saying Campbell has little to do with the wins and the statements you made previously strengthened my point. Lol @ "clutch" throws. You mean the ones against KC's prevent defense?

Nobody said Bruce does anything all by his lonesome. He throws the ball downfield much more consistently and, unlike Campbell, he doesn't need a WR to have 3+ yards of separation to complete a pass.

Except for the fact that there wasn't 3 yards of separation on most of the throws he made in the clutch yesterday. He fired a ball into triple coverage on 1st and 20 to set up the game tying FG. Live with it.

Black Bolt
11-08-2010, 08:50 AM
What about my boy Murph? He had his own Jacoby-like performance in that game.

Murphy is so inconsistent. He has the tools, but he isn't a reliable ball catcher or route runner.

EvilNixon
11-08-2010, 09:42 AM
Campbell is horrible. Even the long TD to DHB last week was horribly underthrown =/

Black Bolt
11-08-2010, 09:55 AM
I think you at least need to consider what he accomplished yesterday. First of all, he had to drive the team at the end of regulation AND in an overtime and got the job down. But let's not forget HOW he got it done. The receivers were DHB and Jacoby Ford- not exacty the due of choice. Miller and Murphy, the teams leading receivers, were no available. Also, there were no time outs. Finally, we were put in a bad position because of Veldeer's legit holding call at 1st and 20. Did I mention no time outs? The bottom line is that JC did what people said he couldn't do, and that's get the job done in a 2 minute situation.

Would I like for him to play with more emotion? Yeah. Would he be better served to throw the ball away instead of taking sideline sacks and break his tendancy to throw high? Yes and yes, but here's the thing. Just like Campbell isn't a franchise QB, Grad isn't either. Grad has a losing record as a starter. He's not on the field because of his decisions to scramble and take hits on his frail body rather than slide. What reason do we have to think that this will not happen again? This musical chairs at QB cannot remain an ongoing thing.

RaiderNation
11-08-2010, 09:59 AM
Its wierd how on here we are all mostly calling for Gradkowski, while on a official Raiders forum website they think Campbell should continue to start. I support both guys but have more trust in Gradkowski still.

NIN1984
11-08-2010, 10:35 AM
Hue Jackson is doing a great job with the offense. New QB, Rookie LT, No WRs and we are still getting it done.

Black Bolt
11-08-2010, 10:57 AM
Hue Jackson is doing a great job with the offense. New QB, Rookie LT, No WRs and we are still getting it done.

Word. The guy is a mad scientist. I also give him credit for teaching all these plays effectively because the offense seems to know each and every play. We have scored in a multitude of ways with the lack of a legit redzone threat. Jackson has been incredible. I'm not saying he's the long term answer and I'm not saying he will be effective this year. But if Chaz Schillens is able to come back healthy before the year is over, all of a sudden we become that more legit.

_YL_
11-08-2010, 11:31 AM
I don't get why everyone is so down on Campbell and calling for Bruce like he is so good he played like *** before he got hurt in the Chargers game Didn't play that well in the Houston game and im putting that nicely should of had at least 4 ints against the Cardinals if there DB's actually new how to catch.

I'm not against him starting but don't act like he would be doing so much better then Campbell right now.

619
11-08-2010, 12:08 PM
This QB controversy has literally split our team forum into two. I've never seen anything like this before here. We're usually relatively uniform when it pertains to these kinds of issues.

Black Bolt
11-08-2010, 03:39 PM
I don't get why everyone is so down on Campbell and calling for Bruce like he is so good he played like *** before he got hurt in the Chargers game Didn't play that well in the Houston game and im putting that nicely should of had at least 4 ints against the Cardinals if there DB's actually new how to catch.

I'm not against him starting but don't act like he would be doing so much better then Campbell right now.

Wow, thanks for opening the window and allowing some fresh air to rush in!! I can understand someone have a preferrence, but this romanticization of Grad is completely out of control. Objectively, neither one is THAT much better than the other. For me it comes down to what roles they play. IMO, Campbell is BETTER as a starter and Grad is BETTER as a back up. If Grad starts then goes out again with injury, the we are out a starter AND a back up!

Black Bolt
11-08-2010, 03:41 PM
This QB controversy has literally split our team forum into two. I've never seen anything like this before here. We're usually relatively uniform when it pertains to these kinds of issues.

Everyone has their own opinion. What's the problem if everyone doesn't agree?

Paranoidmoonduck
11-08-2010, 03:59 PM
I'm not that worried about it. The coaching staff seems to be pretty realistic about getting the guy who's best suited in there now and if a guys struggling they have no problem changing hands mid-game. There's no political attachment to a certain player that we had with Russell.

The passing game will be hugely important against Pitt though, so I hope we put the best guy out there. I personally feel it should be Bruce, but like I said I trust Jackson and Cable to make the right call.

Black Bolt
11-09-2010, 08:38 AM
This QB controversy has literally split our team forum into two. I've never seen anything like this before here. We're usually relatively uniform when it pertains to these kinds of issues.

Well dude, you can stop feeling sorry for the board. Cable ends the controversy in the manner in I thought he would. Campbell is the starter.

http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2010/11/08/cable-does-some-qb-misdirection/

619
11-09-2010, 10:13 AM
Well dude, you can stop feeling sorry for the board. Cable ends the controversy in the manner in I thought he would. Campbell is the starter.

http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2010/11/08/cable-does-some-qb-misdirection/

I was aware. I stand by everything I said. I'm happy for Jason because I can see that he's starting to feel comfortable with his role in our offense, and he's got an overall good ethic to him. Just realize that with him you will experience many peaks and valleys in his play. He's not going to win you games by himself, and so there's much less room for error from the rest of the offense. Starting Campbell was the ballsy decision. We'll see how long this lasts.

Black Bolt
11-09-2010, 11:52 AM
I was aware. I stand by everything I said. I'm happy for Jason because I can see that he's starting to feel comfortable with his role in our offense, and he's got an overall good ethic to him. Just realize that with him you will experience many peaks and valleys in his play. He's not going to win you games by himself, and so there's much less room for error from the rest of the offense. Starting Campbell was the ballsy decision. We'll see how long this lasts.

No QB wins games by themselves. He's 4-2 as a starter and over the last three games his TD to INT ratio is 5 to 1. There is little debate as far as I am concerned. It would be a ballsy decision to replace the guy who just help get you three wins in a row. Let's not act like Grad was burning it up this year. He looked horrible in his last couple outings and he doesn't read the blitz well pre snap. Again, the bottom line for me is that he is better than JC coming off the bench and JC is a better starter provided the line is decent.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-09-2010, 02:51 PM
I don't really believe in the idea of someone being better off the bench. This is pro football, there are no relief quarterbacks. You start the best guy and plan on him finishing a game.

That said, if Campbell can work the ball down-field reliably, I'm more than happy for him to get the start. We need someone who will take risks against that Pitt defense or the running game will get no room at all.

NotRickJames
11-09-2010, 05:21 PM
Cable likes Bruce - so I reckon if Campbell plays poorly this week and we lose, it'll be Grad's job again.

Black Bolt
11-09-2010, 06:54 PM
I don't really believe in the idea of someone being better off the bench. This is pro football, there are no relief quarterbacks. You start the best guy and plan on him finishing a game.

That said, if Campbell can work the ball down-field reliably, I'm more than happy for him to get the start. We need someone who will take risks against that Pitt defense or the running game will get no room at all.

Sure there are, unless you consider Charlie Batch a starting QB. The point you are either missing or ignoring is that Gradkowski cannot stay healthy, and when you can't be relied upon to be on the field, you can't be considered a full time starter.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-09-2010, 07:34 PM
Sure there are, unless you consider Charlie Batch a starting QB. The point you are either missing or ignoring is that Gradkowski cannot stay healthy, and when you can't be relied upon to be on the field, you can't be considered a full time starter.

It's good to have a good backup in case, but that's not a "relief" quarterback. If you say Campbell is a better starter and that Bruce is better off the bench, that's a very odd statement. One is the better quarterback when on the field, no matter whether they start the game or come into it mid-way. This isn't baseball, there are no closers.

If Bruce is not healthy for the Pittsburgh game, then it's a no-brainer. It didn't seem that his shoulder was healthy even when he was playing early in the season, so I would support giving him as much time he needs to really be healthy. But there's a difference between saying he cannot be healthy and he has not been healthy. Bruce has not been healthy, but there's no evidence that would be properly sufficient to say that he can never been healthy.

NotRickJames
11-09-2010, 09:30 PM
Sure there are, unless you consider Charlie Batch a starting QB. The point you are either missing or ignoring is that Gradkowski cannot stay healthy, and when you can't be relied upon to be on the field, you can't be considered a full time starter.

Where's that coming from? Gradkowski has only been injured twice, and they probably rushed him back the first time. He does need to learn how to slide though, or he will continue to get injured.

Black Bolt
11-10-2010, 08:23 AM
Where's that coming from? Gradkowski has only been injured twice, and they probably rushed him back the first time. He does need to learn how to slide though, or he will continue to get injured.

He's been injured twice? He was injured and throwing up because he took two big hits when he tried to run the ball. He's too small to hold up to those sort of hits. Every time he gets sacks, he looks like he's going to die because he is TOO SMALL. He tore his pec bench pressing over the summer. He was knocked out of the starting spot last year from a hit. He came back his year and got reinjured. How does this not qualify as injury prone? If he isn't injury prone, then the terms shouldn't exist in the English language. I'm not trying to mean to the guy, but these are the facts. And if he is as good on the field as people claim, the question has to asked, why did three other teams who needed QBs get rid of him? I would bet that part of their thinking was that he could not physically hold up as a starter in the NFL.

NotRickJames
11-10-2010, 10:37 PM
why did three other teams who needed QBs get rid of him? I would bet that part of their thinking was that he could not physically hold up as a starter in the NFL.

I'll be honest, he was pretty bad until he joined the Raiders. I remember seeing the Redskins Bucs game when Gradkowksi was starting (rookie year), dude looked very unimpressive.

I'll just say now - if Campbell leads us to a win against Pittsburgh, I'll be sold, at least for a while. But I'll still be keeping the sig - Grad's still one of my favorite players.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-10-2010, 11:21 PM
It's a bit foolish to just talk of tools in comparing the two guys. Just as between Russell and Gradkowski, the biggest difference between Bruce and Campbell is attitude. Jason is many magnitudes more capable than Russell, but he's a laid-back presence who doesn't really get on anyone's ass and doesn't have a very demonstrative personality. A QB with Bruce's personality on the field, no matter how capable a team is (even if they're many times more capable and experienced than the Raider's squad) benefits from having that at quarterback.

It doesn't mean Bruce is definitely the better option, but let's please not limit this to the discussion of who can throw the ball longer. It goes so much deeper than that.

Black Bolt
11-11-2010, 01:47 PM
It's a bit foolish to just talk of tools in comparing the two guys. Just as between Russell and Gradkowski, the biggest difference between Bruce and Campbell is attitude. Jason is many magnitudes more capable than Russell, but he's a laid-back presence who doesn't really get on anyone's ass and doesn't have a very demonstrative personality. A QB with Bruce's personality on the field, no matter how capable a team is (even if they're many times more capable and experienced than the Raider's squad) benefits from having that at quarterback.

It doesn't mean Bruce is definitely the better option, but let's please not limit this to the discussion of who can throw the ball longer. It goes so much deeper than that.

I'm not sure if you are talking to me or not, but if you are.....

Each QB has their strengths are weakness. They are BOTH flawed. The question is who should start between the two of them, weaknesses and all, period. What it comes down to is this IMO.

- Jason is more health and has a better health history. He is MORE likely than Grad to finish games.

- The line is much improved, thereby negating Grads chief advantage, that being improvising and buying time in the pocket.

- Jason fits more of what the offense is built for, and that's play action and deep passing.

If we could cross the two and make a super QB with Jason's physical skills, attributes and durability and his presnap defensive reads along with Grad's fire and quick processing, we'd have ourselves a top 5, maybe top 3 QB. But we can't do that, therefore a compromise is what we faced with.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-11-2010, 02:56 PM
The offensive line is much improved in the running game, but Oakland is still the 3rd worst team in the NFL at preventing sacks. There are less hits this year, but that sack ranking is exactly the same as it was last year. To insinuate that Campbell hasn't had to improvise (with middling results) in games that weren't against teams with horrible pass rush units (Denver and Seattle) is false.

I was just making sure that this didn't devolve into a discussion of height and arm strength, because Campbell, being the 1st rounder, wins that competition right out. In fact, Kyle Boller pretty handily beats out Bruce as well. The reason Bruce was, up until a few days ago, talked about as the starter even when his injury problems were completely apparent had to do with a lot more than his tools, just as his being replaced by Campbell isn't a referendum on his tools either. It's a reward for Campbell playing so well.

EvilNixon
11-11-2010, 04:06 PM
Bruce is a better QB period. More accurate, much better pocket presence, and is willing to take chances.

If only he learned how to slide....

Black Bolt
11-12-2010, 07:29 AM
The offensive line is much improved in the running game, but Oakland is still the 3rd worst team in the NFL at preventing sacks. There are less hits this year, but that sack ranking is exactly the same as it was last year. To insinuate that Campbell hasn't had to improvise (with middling results) in games that weren't against teams with horrible pass rush units (Denver and Seattle) is false.

I was just making sure that this didn't devolve into a discussion of height and arm strength, because Campbell, being the 1st rounder, wins that competition right out. In fact, Kyle Boller pretty handily beats out Bruce as well. The reason Bruce was, up until a few days ago, talked about as the starter even when his injury problems were completely apparent had to do with a lot more than his tools, just as his being replaced by Campbell isn't a referendum on his tools either. It's a reward for Campbell playing so well.

I understand that Jason and Bruce have had to elude the rush, but it's still not the same jailbreak to the QB that is was last year. The differences are we boast the league's second best rush attack which puts us in less third and longs and lately, the passing game has found it's legs. Teams aren't smelling blood like they did last year when they knew they weren't going to pay a price for blitzing. So we don't NEED Grad to improvise just to mount something resembling an offense like we have in the past. From the pocket, he's not better than Campbell. He no good at presnap reads including recognizing the blitz. One team (Houston?) blitzed relentlessly at the end of the game and Bruce couldn't seem to see it coming even though they were showing it.

Black Bolt
11-12-2010, 07:33 AM
Bruce is a better QB period. More accurate, much better pocket presence, and is willing to take chances.

If only he learned how to slide....

Take chances, like the key 1st and 20 completion to Ford that everyone is faulting Campbell for throwing?

EvilNixon
11-12-2010, 09:58 AM
lol. Campbell refuses to throw the football into tight spaces unless he has no other choice. add into that, he routinely underthrows/overthrows WIDE Open Receivers. He cost DHB a long TD in the Seattle game, and the long one DHb had, WAS HORRIBLY UNDERTHROWN. He is terrible, and when Bruce is healthy, he is much much much better.

EvilNixon
11-12-2010, 09:58 AM
From the pocket, Campbell stares down receivers, doesn't feel the rush, and checks it down relentlessly. He is not a good QB.

doingthisinsteadofwork
11-12-2010, 12:16 PM
I think the most important thing were missing here is the run game.Notice in the Frisco game when Bush got in that collision we weren't able to run the ball after that, and because of that the offense played horrible and that was the reason we lost the game.Notice that whenever were unable to run the ball effectively Campbell plays atrociously bad and yet when we run the ball well he can be pretty good.Thats the big difference between him and Bruce, Bruce can still make plays when the pressure is on him, Campbell has proven he cant.

When we go up against the Steelers in Pittsburgh we had better be able to run the ball.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-12-2010, 02:40 PM
That's sorta been my contention. If Campbell is ready to take risks and make things happen, then let him start against Pitt. That said, Pittsburgh has the best run defense in the NFL right now, so if Campbell can't play like Bruce does, he's going to be destroyed.

EvilNixon
11-12-2010, 02:57 PM
I think the most important thing were missing here is the run game.Notice in the Frisco game when Bush got in that collision we weren't able to run the ball after that, and because of that the offense played horrible and that was the reason we lost the game.Notice that whenever were unable to run the ball effectively Campbell plays atrociously bad and yet when we run the ball well he can be pretty good.Thats the big difference between him and Bruce, Bruce can still make plays when the pressure is on him, Campbell has proven he cant.

When we go up against the Steelers in Pittsburgh we had better be able to run the ball.

Even when we run it well, he's still terribly inaccurate.

Black Bolt
11-13-2010, 11:22 AM
lol. Campbell refuses to throw the football into tight spaces unless he has no other choice. add into that, he routinely underthrows/overthrows WIDE Open Receivers. He cost DHB a long TD in the Seattle game, and the long one DHb had, WAS HORRIBLY UNDERTHROWN. He is terrible, and when Bruce is healthy, he is much much much better.

LOL, so now you are qualifying your statement before you move on to the next criticism of Campbell as if Bruise Gradkowski has been perfect. Funny how the team supposedly only rallys around Bruise, but the team has been rallying for the past 3 games in which Bruise hasn't taken a snap.