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bigbluedefense
03-20-2007, 09:49 AM
Im starting to think that he can work at SAM. Now think about this. We plan on using Kiwi as our DE/OLB hybrid SAM right? But he's not ready for the adjustment yet, so he'll probably be a 3rd down specialist until he's ready.

In the meantime, we have Torbor as our 1st and 2nd down SAM. Is this really as bad as some of us are making it out to be? He's a decent SAM, not a PB guy, but he's ok. SAMs are usually JAGs anyway. When he played, he usually played decent. Also consider the scheme.

He's been in a Cover 2 shell this whole time, which is clearly not his strong suit. Under Spagnuola, he'll be a pass rusher primarily, as the Eagles love rushing their OLBs most of the time.

Now many have said that Torbor is probably suited to be used more as a rushbacker than a 4-3 SAM right? Wouldn't this new scheme essentially be dong that? He'll rush the passer most of the time, and cover the flats. Thats primarily the role of the SAM in this new scheme, if its the same scheme that Johnson employs. Torbor can do that. In fact, he might do that better than we expect.

Im opening up to giving him a chance. This is his make or break year for me, but I wouldn't be surprised if he can have a breakout year. I think Reese sees it too. Thats why he's making the moves he's making. We sometimes underestimate how badly Lewis's scheme held our players back. Now, we will get to see who's who finally.

Seriously, I don't think our LB core is as big of a problem as we make it out to be. Chase and Wilk can hold it down at WILL, we have a great MIKE, and SAM is a JAG position anyway. If we go into the season with these guys at LB, Im telling you, I don't think it will be as bad as we make it out to be. Thoughts?

GiantRutgersFan
03-20-2007, 10:03 AM
I for one am not a Torbor fan at all... I wouldnt really like him to be starting.

I think its essentail that we draft a Paul Poz who can immediately be a quality starter. Poz, Pierce and Wilkinson/Blackburn would be pretty good imo.

Is it even confirmed that Kiwi is gonna be a hybrid SAM?

bigbluedefense
03-20-2007, 10:32 AM
I for one am not a Torbor fan at all... I wouldnt really like him to be starting.

I think its essentail that we draft a Paul Poz who can immediately be a quality starter. Poz, Pierce and Wilkinson/Blackburn would be pretty good imo.

Is it even confirmed that Kiwi is gonna be a hybrid SAM?

I don't think Poz can be a SAM. Well, maybe he can. But SAM isn't a position I want to spend a round 1/2 pick on. Its really not that important of a position.

Nowadays, SS coverage on the TE is more important than LB coverage. Youre better off drafting a SS who can cover TEs with a day 1 pick opposed to a day 1 SAM.

GiantRutgersFan
03-20-2007, 10:39 AM
I don't think Poz can be a SAM. Well, maybe he can. But SAM isn't a position I want to spend a round 1/2 pick on. Its really not that important of a position.

Nowadays, SS coverage on the TE is more important than LB coverage. Youre better off drafting a SS who can cover TEs with a day 1 pick opposed to a day 1 SAM.

I would have Poz at WILL. I think Blackburn could be a SAM. Wilkinson i am not so sure about, but Blackburn should be able to.

bigbluedefense
03-20-2007, 10:47 AM
I would have Poz at WILL. I think Blackburn could be a SAM. Wilkinson i am not so sure about, but Blackburn should be able to.

Blackburn can play in space, but I doubt he can hold up in a man coverage assignment with the TE. He's too stiff, he lacks fluidity out there needed for coverage. He can't drop his hips. He's more of a zone coverage, flat coverage LB. So he's better at WILL.

Damix
03-20-2007, 11:45 AM
I wouldn't mind it at all if he was the starter. Then adding a WILL like Alexander in the 2nd, and then a body that can develop into a SAM later in the draft (I would think about taking Bradley if he dropped to the 3rd, but I was thinking more like Burgess in the 4th-5th)

1st round should be top rated defensive back on the board, safety or cornerback.

As I know it usually doesn't work like this, I think in the first 3 rounds we need to address DB, LB and WR in that order pref. and then on day 2, add another LB, a DT, O-Line help and then maybe another corner/wr

Slasher28
03-20-2007, 01:51 PM
Burgess is good for a 4-5 round pick, if we had the chance to solve our LB problems I think he'd be great. If we could get Earl Everette in the third, I think he could be SAM, and if we draft someone like Beason he could play SAM or WILL, either one of those would be a good pick up.
1. Poz, Timmons, maybe Beason
2. Beason, Alexander
3. Durant, Black
4. Black, Shaw
5. Simpson, Burgess

I wouldn't draft a LB after the 5th round

Number 10
03-20-2007, 02:31 PM
It looks like he will get his shot to start, likely compete with a rookie in camp. I like the guy's attitude but he is very limited in terms of what he can do on the field and won't make many plays.

joepas171
03-20-2007, 09:30 PM
It looks like he will get his shot to start, likely compete with a rookie in camp. I like the guy's attitude but he is very limited in terms of what he can do on the field and won't make many plays.

A non playmaking LB is exactly what we dont need. he can be in the mix though. Maybe he turns a corner this year.

Number 10
03-20-2007, 10:09 PM
A non playmaking LB is exactly what we dont need. he can be in the mix though. Maybe he turns a corner this year.

I agree but sadly, he is the best we have at SLB right now.

Damix
03-20-2007, 11:42 PM
Speaking of LB we worked out Keith Adams today

BigBlue58KiperIII
03-21-2007, 01:31 AM
Hopefully just for his special teams prowess and for depth because i dont want to see him starting for us.

Jughead10
03-21-2007, 08:17 AM
Ugh, the thought of Reggie Torbor starting for this team just sent a shiver down my spin.

bigbluedefense
03-21-2007, 09:30 AM
My thing is this...we don't know if he can or can't thrive in this new system. Considering this new system will use him primarily as a pass rusher, and a flat coverage LB, why can't he succeed? He was a DE, the pass rushing aspect should come naturally. And a 2 year old can cover the flats, so he should be ok in that area as well.

When he is in fact covering the TE, he'll be serviceable. Nothing great, but he'll be ok. He's good against the run, and with Strahan in front of him, we won't have to worry too much about that anyway.

I want to give him a fair shot before I write him off. I think he has potential to succeed in this scheme.

And remember, nowadays, 4-3 SAM is probably the most useless position on defense. You don't need a PB caliber player there, a JAG usually suffices. In a league of parity, you can't have it all. I rather address more important positions and have a JAG at SAM compared to having a talent at SAM and a JAG at CB for example.

BigBlue58KiperIII
03-21-2007, 10:02 AM
Yea i think Torbor gets an unfair rap sometimes, because he was never given a lasting oppurtunity to show what he can do. He is not going to be Merriman coming off the edge but he has shown to a player who is more than serviceable. Can we do better sure, but does our defense totally collapse because he is in there, no. If he ends up starting i wont cry about it

Jughead10
03-21-2007, 10:11 AM
Torbor covering a TE is a whole lot less than servicable. He looks like a lost child in Times Square when he has to drop into coverage. Passrush I guess he could be decent. However in the limited time he has received, he hasn't shown much of all in terms of pass rush or anything. In one year in the NFL, in the limited snaps he had as a stand up player, Kiwi has shown more ability in coverage than Torbor has shown since he has been here. I'd rather move Kiwi to SLB than have Torbor getting any significant playing time.

bigbluedefense
03-21-2007, 10:26 AM
Torbor covering a TE is a whole lot less than servicable. He looks like a lost child in Times Square when he has to drop into coverage. Passrush I guess he could be decent. However in the limited time he has received, he hasn't shown much of all in terms of pass rush or anything. In one year in the NFL, in the limited snaps he had as a stand up player, Kiwi has shown more ability in coverage than Torbor has shown since he has been here. I'd rather move Kiwi to SLB than have Torbor getting any significant playing time.

Sure, having Kiwi there is ideal. But you can't realistically expect him to make the transition by week 1. I think he'll be more of a 3rd down specialist until probably week 9 or even 10, then he can take on the role on all 3 downs. Who knows, he may be a 3rd down specialist all season.

For the time being, Torbor can hold the fort down. And remember, Tim Lewis made everyone look like a lost child in coverage. Torbor won't be playing so much zone, he'll have man responsibilities now so we'll see if he can manage. And remember, he didn't show much in pass rush because...well...Tim Lewis never blitzed. We'll get a much better idea of what Torbor can do this year.

Jughead10
03-21-2007, 10:27 AM
Of course there will be a transition period for Kiwi. But even Kiwi week 1 during a transition player is better than Torbor in my mind. Torbor is gone next year anyway. He is only here because he is still in his 20's.

ricky bobby
03-21-2007, 10:34 AM
Kiwi needs to be our SLB next year, especailly with Strahan coming back. There is absolutely no way he starts over Strahan, but he is too talented to sit on the bench. Kiwi playing SLB for us next year would be perfect. We need a SLB, and Kiwi needs to be on the field. It only makes sense that he's our SLB next year. I think we should move Kiwi to SLB and then add one more OLB in the draft to compete with Blackburn, Torbor and Wilkinson for the WLB spot.

bigbluedefense
03-21-2007, 10:41 AM
Kiwi needs to be our SLB next year, especailly with Strahan coming back. There is absolutely no way he starts over Strahan, but he is too talented to sit on the bench. Kiwi playing SLB for us next year would be perfect. We need a SLB, and Kiwi needs to be on the field. It only makes sense that he's our SLB next year. I think we should move Kiwi to SLB and then add one more OLB in the draft to compete with Blackburn, Torbor and Wilkinson for the WLB spot.

Id love to have Kiwi there. Im with you guys on that. I just don't see it happening that easily. Dropping back in a rushbacker flat zone and playing man coverage in 4-3 SAM is 2 completely different worlds. Its not that simple of a transition. Its also very different stopping the run as a LB. He has to read and react, and fire the right gap while standing up. Sounds simple, but its not, especially for a guy who played DE his whole life.

The guys who have made the transition easily are veterans like Taylor and Peterson. Kiwi is only a 2nd year player. I hope he can make the transition quickly, but Im not counting on it. In the mean time, Torbor can be decent at SAM on 1st and 2nd down.

BigBlue58KiperIII
03-21-2007, 04:48 PM
Kiwi isnt going to be sitting on the bench even if he is not starting. He will see plenty of action on the field, you need at least 3 ends to rotate to keep fresh and with strahancoming off and injury aand aging i dont know if it serves in the best interest of the team in the long run to move Kiwi to LB. Torbor or a rookie will be fine for this year, even resigning Short would be fine with me. I dont disagree that Kiwi would do well at SAM but i'd rather keep him at DE.