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J-Mike88
11-24-2010, 08:56 AM
COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Even if TCU and Boise State run the table, they still don't deserve to be in the Bowl Championship Series title game, Ohio State president E. Gordon Gee said Wednesday.

In an interview with The Associated Press, the president at the university with the largest athletic program in the country said that TCU and Boise State do not face a difficult enough schedule to play in the national championship game.

Gee, long an admirer of the BCS and the current bowl system, said he was against a playoff in the Football Bowl Subdivision because it was "a slippery slope to professionalism."

A former president at West Virginia, Colorado, Brown and Vanderbilt universities, Gee said he favored the "mixed-up mystery" of the current system.

Sniper
11-24-2010, 09:05 AM
Feel free to add a link the next time that you jack an entire article.

As much as I'd usually agree with the thread title, he's right in his Boise/TCU point. Like I've said before, if you let them in the NC game, you might as well open the BCS title game to any undefeated football team in America from any football level.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
11-24-2010, 09:10 AM
Outside of Wisconsin, what tough teams did Ohio state play this year? Can't wait to see the buckeyes get stomped in their bowl game.

BeerBaron
11-24-2010, 09:16 AM
Gee, long an admirer of the BCS and the current bowl system, said he was against a playoff in the Football Bowl Subdivision because it was "a slippery slope to professionalism."


Didn't even need to hear anything more, that part of it right there told me that this person is clearly a dangerously insane human being not deserving of the air he breathes.

bearsfan_51
11-24-2010, 09:20 AM
It's not a baseless point. I'm not at all convinced that a school like Boise State could run the table in any of the four major conferences (sorry ACC).

Utah will be a good barometer of that next year. Until then we really can't say.

That said, they deserve a chance at this point. There's nothing left for them to do. If they get stomped, they get stomped. End of discussion.

bearsfan_51
11-24-2010, 09:21 AM
Outside of Wisconsin, what tough teams did Ohio state play this year? Can't wait to see the buckeyes get stomped in their bowl game.
Miami and Iowa aren't exactly cupcakes. But yeah, their schedule wasn't much tougher than Boise or TCU.

BeerBaron
11-24-2010, 09:27 AM
Is it too much of a stretch to say that, if Ohio State were to play Boise/TCU in the Rose Bowl, they'd lose? They'd certainly be "favored" but with TP at QB (that's actually not fair to real QBs...I should call him a "passing athlete..."), you can't totally count on OSU against a legit opponent, which I think Boise or TCU would be.

Boise in particular hasn't just been squeaking by against their weak opponents, they've been absolutely crushing them. They're not a whacky team who gets by with trickeration on offense like they when they beat Oklahoma or like Hawaii with Colt Brennan.

I'd love to see Boise (or TCU) play OSU.

bearsfan_51
11-24-2010, 09:30 AM
TCU or Boise would definitely be the favorites to beat Ohio State this year.

That's also the most realistic Rose Bowl matchup at this point.

SolidGold
11-24-2010, 09:31 AM
No big surprise here, one of the biggest beneficiaries of the BCS does not want anyone new stirring the pot.

TCU or Boise St. have just as much talent as OSU. They both have great defenses and I bet each offense could put up numbers on OSU. I would love if somehow OSU is matched up with one of these teams in a bowl game this year, nothing like seeing a team from the establishment losing to one of these non-traditional college football powers.

BeerBaron
11-24-2010, 09:36 AM
No big surprise here, one of the biggest beneficiaries of the BCS does not want anyone new stirring the pot.

TCU or Boise St. have just as much talent as OSU. They both have great defenses and I bet each offense could put up numbers on OSU. I would love if somehow OSU is matched up with one of these teams in a bowl game this year, nothing like seeing a team from the establishment losing to one of these non-traditional college football powers.

And I'd hope that they'd beat OSU handily too....If the Boise team that beat Oklahama played them 10 times, I think Oklahoma would have won the other 9.

But this Boise team is totally legit, as is TCU imo. I don't think they'd run a an automatic qualifier other than the Big East, but I think they'd have a great chance at winning most of them with a loss or two. Their talent is on par and they've got excellent coaches who have committed themselves to the programs.

JoeJoeBrown
11-24-2010, 10:27 AM
The idiocy in this thread made my head explode.

I hope BSU and TCU play big boy teams this bowl season. We'll see how they actually rack and stack compared to teams with real depth and strength across all positions.

And you can't just handwave their crappy schedules away. The biggest difference between a powerhouse and a team like BSU is the depth of quality players. A tough schedule is going to cause players to get injured and force backups to play significantly more.

If you are playing a bunch of terrible teams with poor players, you aren't going to suffer much attrition. They haven't had to go through that.

Sniper
11-24-2010, 10:31 AM
The idiocy in this thread made my head explode.

I hope BSU and TCU play big boy teams this bowl season. We'll see how they actually rack and stack compared to teams with real depth and strength across all positions.

And you can't just handwave their crappy schedules away. The biggest difference between a powerhouse and a team like BSU is the depth of quality players. A tough schedule is going to cause players to get injured and force backups to play significantly more.

If you are playing a bunch of terrible teams with poor players, you aren't going to suffer much attrition. They haven't had to go through that.

BUT THEY BEATZ FRESNO STATE BY ELEVENTY GAZILLION POINTZZZ!!!!!!!

Seriously, at least someone has some ******* logic.

Crickett
11-24-2010, 10:49 AM
Can someone explain to me why this was allowed to be a problem for a second year in a row? Last year, TCU and Boise State were top five ranked teams that ended up playing against each other in their bowl game, why weren't some better games scheduled this year???

There is a marquee team out there that is bowl game ineligible this year and next year. Why didn't TCU OR Boise State face them this year?


Forgive my ignorance as I really don't know much about how the college football system works.

dabears10
11-24-2010, 11:06 AM
BUT THEY BEATZ FRESNO STATE BY ELEVENTY GAZILLION POINTZZZ!!!!!!!

Seriously, at least someone has some ******* logic.

If this is the case then why do these teams even play in the same division?

If a team has no chance at the beginning of the year to win a championship it seems like they should have a seperate division altogther.

I would make college football more like English Premier League style demotion system. Have say 40 teams across 4 Leagues in Division 1. You demote the bottom 5 and promote the top 5 from each league.

Currently say if Boise had 3 or 4 top 25 teams on the schedule they still don't deserve a chance at a Championship. Why would it make sense they are then even playing?

Sniper
11-24-2010, 11:08 AM
If this is the case then why do these teams even play in the same division?

They don't. That's why Boise's not in an AQ league.

I would make college football more like English Premier League style demotion system. Have say 40 teams across 4 Leagues in Division 1. You demote the bottom 5 and promote the top 5 from each league.

That's all well and good, but it's not happening.

Currently say if Boise had 3 or 4 top 25 teams on the schedule they still don't deserve a chance at a Championship. Why would it make sense they are then even playing?

Not sure what you're going for here.

dabears10
11-24-2010, 11:09 AM
They don't. That's why Boise's not in an AQ league.



That's all well and good, but it's not happening.



Not sure what you're going for here.

In a perfect system everyone that is playing should be able to win a championship. Currently that cannot happen.

Don Vito
11-24-2010, 11:13 AM
I do know, having been both a Southeastern Conference president and a Big Ten president, that it's like murderer's row every week for these schools. We do not play the Little Sisters of the Poor. We play very fine schools on any given day.

Haha wow

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5845736

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 01:16 PM
The idiocy in this thread made my head explode.

I hope BSU and TCU play big boy teams this bowl season. We'll see how they actually rack and stack compared to teams with real depth and strength across all positions.

And you can't just handwave their crappy schedules away. The biggest difference between a powerhouse and a team like BSU is the depth of quality players. A tough schedule is going to cause players to get injured and force backups to play significantly more.

If you are playing a bunch of terrible teams with poor players, you aren't going to suffer much attrition. They haven't had to go through that.

You guys keep saying you hope they play the big boys this year, i dont ******* get why that is. You guys all think theyre going to get their ass kicked and aside from Hawaii every single Non-AQ school that has gotten the chance to play in a BCS game has come out on top.

BSU stunning OU, Utah beating the **** out Bama, BSU over TCU....great game but i guess you can say one lost.

You guys act like its a given that these teams are just going to roll over once they get on the field.

If you watch BSU play they have just about as much depth as anyone in the country. You can see someone different playing the same position on every snap of the game and they wont skip a beat. But what it really comes down to, is i think that BSU and TCU have arguably the 2 best coaches in the country and that shows week in and week out.



insert (play a ******* schedule) rant right here

Sniper
11-24-2010, 01:38 PM
Like I've said before, it's not hard to get up for one game when you've played a bunch of patsies all year that don't really force you to use your depth and challenge you consistently.

bearsfan_51
11-24-2010, 01:46 PM
If this is the case then why do these teams even play in the same division?

If a team has no chance at the beginning of the year to win a championship it seems like they should have a seperate division altogther.

I would make college football more like English Premier League style demotion system. Have say 40 teams across 4 Leagues in Division 1. You demote the bottom 5 and promote the top 5 from each league.

Currently say if Boise had 3 or 4 top 25 teams on the schedule they still don't deserve a chance at a Championship. Why would it make sense they are then even playing?
Because in college football the divisions are interested in protecting each other.

On that note, however, a system like that in major league baseball is a LONG time coming. It's ridiculous that the Yankees and the Royals are in the same league year after year, especially when a minor league system already exists.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 01:47 PM
Like I've said before, it's not hard to get up for one game when you've played a bunch of patsies all year that don't really force you to use your depth and challenge you consistently.

Ok, then if its not that hard why do you all assume that they are going to get their asses kicked?

bearsfan_51
11-24-2010, 01:48 PM
All this being said, I don't really have a problem with the BCS, but this is the wrong year for Gee to be making these statements (which is why he's making them).

Boise State and TCU have played pretty tough schedules.

JoeJoeBrown
11-24-2010, 02:04 PM
Ok, then if its not that hard why do you all assume that they are going to get their asses kicked?

1) We are saying that they don't deserve it because they don't play the schedule that would expose their lack of depth.

2) You are right, a one game season (i.e. bowl game) gives them an optimal chance at success.

If we are going to reward this kind of crap scheduling, a traditional power like Notre Dame should just play rinky dink teams all year to get to the NC. Texas should quit the Big12 and play nobodies.

We'd have a bunch of undefeated teams that are untested claiming that they were the best and should be in the NC.

Gee is an attention *****, and loves to give soundbites. A playoff is needed, if, and only if, we really want to see a vetted national champion.

Sniper
11-24-2010, 02:05 PM
Ok, then if its not that hard why do you all assume that they are going to get their asses kicked?

You will be hard-pressed to find a quote from me that says Boise and TCU would get their asses kicked in a one-game scenario.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 02:10 PM
You will be hard-pressed to find a quote from me that says Boise and TCU would get their asses kicked in a one-game scenario.

well i guess this original statement was made at JoeJoeBrown but you were the one who responded to my post, so my apologies sir.

JoeJoeBrown
11-24-2010, 02:17 PM
well i guess this original statement was made at JoeJoeBrown but you were the one who responded to my post, so my apologies sir.

I too did not say that they'd get their asses kicked. I said that I'd like to see them play quality teams this bowl season.

I do contend that they would not be among the top 10 teams if they played a BCS conference schedule (minus the big least, they are worse than the WAC).

And with that contention, I feel that they do not deserve to be in the NC game discussion. They have not had to earn it. They will have played two quality teams by season's end.

jrdrylie
11-24-2010, 02:17 PM
Boise State plays two difficult teams a year. The first week of the seaosn, which allows them to gameplan for an entire offseason for their opponent. And then the bowl game, where they can spend 3 or 4 weeks gameplanning for the opponent. Put them in a league where they are tested every week, Boise State will lose multiple games each year with the talent they have.

And to whomever said Ohio State and Boise State had comparable schedules, you are crazy. Iowa and Wisconsin are better than any team Boise played. Miami is better than all of them outside of Virginia Tech.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 02:25 PM
Boise State plays two difficult teams a year. The first week of the seaosn, which allows them to gameplan for an entire offseason for their opponent. And then the bowl game, where they can spend 3 or 4 weeks gameplanning for the opponent. Put them in a league where they are tested every week, Boise State will lose multiple games each year with the talent they have.

And to whomever said Ohio State and Boise State had comparable schedules, you are crazy. Iowa and Wisconsin are better than any team Boise played. Miami is better than all of them outside of Virginia Tech.

Nevada is ranked higher ;)

jrdrylie
11-24-2010, 02:35 PM
Nevada is ranked higher ;)

Rankings are not the end-all-be-all in determining which team is better. For example, Oklahoma lost to Missouri, but is still ranked higher.

And there is no way Nevada would beat Miami. Who have they beaten besides a mediocre Cal team?

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 02:52 PM
Rankings are not the end-all-be-all in determining which team is better. For example, Oklahoma lost to Missouri, but is still ranked higher.

And there is no way Nevada would beat Miami. Who have they beaten besides a mediocre Cal team?

no way to prove that until they play, one is ranked and one isnt. No way of proving this. Would Miami be the favorite? yeah probably. But dont start makin claims.

aLARGEtopHat
11-24-2010, 03:35 PM
i eat paint.

P-L
11-24-2010, 03:46 PM
Strength of schedule rankings.

Boise State - 73
TCU - 68

Ohio State - 59
Wisconsin - 61
Michigan State - 67

The three top Big Ten teams, Boise State, and TCU all have a strength of schedule ranking within 14 spots of each other. Out of 120 teams, that's essentially the same quality of schedule played.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 03:50 PM
Strength of schedule rankings.

Boise State - 73
TCU - 68

Ohio State - 59
Wisconsin - 61
Michigan State - 67

The three top Big Ten teams, Boise State, and TCU all have a strength of schedule ranking within 14 spots of each other. Out of 120 teams, that's essentially the same quality of schedule played.

OMGZZZZZZ WAC and MWC teams playing as tough of schedules as Big 10 teams!? who would have known?!

ryno626
11-24-2010, 03:59 PM
As far as SOS goes could the arguement be made that a lot of the top tier teams from the Big Six schedule the bottom wrung teams out of the WAC/MWC? Or am i grasping at straws trying to play devils advocate?

keylime_5
11-24-2010, 04:23 PM
SOS is not a ironclad stat considering it puts teams like Eastern Michigan and Marshall as being a lot worse than teams like Idaho and Louisiana Tech when in reality they are all cupcake teams who can't beat any halfway decent team. If you consider teams like that equal and then teams like Va Tech, Iowa, etc. as being a lot better it would be a more viable statistic. Boise plays 2 teams all year worth a damn. Ohio State and other BCS teams play usually 7 or 8 teams who have legit talent and can compete. Let's see Boise play Iowa, Penn State, Michigan State, Ohio State, Michigan, Northwestern in a row before they complain they aren't getting a fair shot, because that's what Wisconsin is doing this year.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 04:30 PM
SOS is not a ironclad stat considering it puts teams like Eastern Michigan and Marshall as being a lot worse than teams like Idaho and Louisiana Tech when in reality they are all cupcake teams who can't beat any halfway decent team. If you consider teams like that equal and then teams like Va Tech, Iowa, etc. as being a lot better it would be a more viable statistic. Boise plays 2 teams all year worth a damn. Ohio State and other BCS teams play usually 7 or 8 teams who have legit talent and can compete. Let's see Boise play Iowa, Penn State, Michigan State, Ohio State, Michigan, Northwestern in a row before they complain they aren't getting a fair shot, because that's what Wisconsin is doing this year.

If BSU got an invite to the Big 10 i bet you they would take it...

diabsoule
11-24-2010, 04:36 PM
This argument will be null and void next year when TCU will play Boise State on a regular basis since both will be in the MWC.

diabsoule
11-24-2010, 04:41 PM
If BSU got an invite to the Big 10 i bet you they would take it...

I'm sure they would. If you look at the SOS of the top ranked SEC schools they look like this:

Alabama - 9th
LSU - 11th
Auburn - 19th
Arkansas - 30th

Oregon, the #1 team in the country, has a SOS of 72.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 04:44 PM
I'm sure they would. If you look at the SOS of the top ranked SEC schools they look like this:

Alabama - 9th
LSU - 11th
Auburn - 19th
Arkansas - 30th

Oregon, the #1 team in the country, has a SOS of 72.

Where ya goin with this? LSU and Auburn are the only ones with realistic title chances right now, and i would even rule LSU as a long shot.

JoeJoeBrown
11-24-2010, 04:48 PM
Strength of schedule rankings.

Boise State - 73
TCU - 68

Ohio State - 59
Wisconsin - 61
Michigan State - 67

The three top Big Ten teams, Boise State, and TCU all have a strength of schedule ranking within 14 spots of each other. Out of 120 teams, that's essentially the same quality of schedule played.

Link?

There are bunch of different ways to measure SOS(Here's one (http://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team) and more from google (http://www.google.com/search?q=college+football+strength+of+schedule&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)). Comparing OSU to BSU wrt schedules is laughable.

SOS is heavily biased as to how someone perceives a conference. I am heavily biased against the Big Least, ACC, MWC, Sun Belt, MAC, CUSA, WAC, etc... Basically every conference outside of the big 4.

There are not enough mutual games out of 120 teams to build a strong network of rankings of all teams. This means SOS is highly suspect as ranking of teams is already highly suspect. People go on what they see and reputation. It's a weakly correlated network based on opinion. And people that make their rankings are highly opinionated already.

Rankings like Sagarin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Sagarin) work a lot better when you have a giant statistical universe. I think they are a lot better for college basketball where there are more games, and more diverse games. The computer models for CFB just don't have enough data.



The fact that BSU and TCU are even in the conversation is a miracle.

Marshall (not bowl eligible)
Miami (FL) (bowl eligible)
Ohio (yes)
Eastern Michigan (no)
@Illinois (yes)
Indiana (no)
@Wisconsin (yes)
Purdue (yes)
@Minnesota (no)
Penn State (yes)
@Iowa (yes)
Michigan (yes)

8 bowl eligible teams. And the crappy Big10 teams have been successful out of conference against rinky dink opposition. It's when they play BCS schools that they have problems.

vs

neutral-Virginia Tech (bowl eligible)
@Wyoming (not bowl eligible)
Oregon State (not bowl eligible, but has a chance)
@New Mexico State (not bowl eligible)
Toledo (yes)
@San Jose State (not)
Louisiana Tech (not)
Hawai'i (yes)
@Idaho (no but has a chance)
Fresno State (yes)
@Nevada (yes)
Utah State (no)

5 bowl eligible teams, with possibly 2 more if they win this week.

And most of the wins that BSU's bowl eligible competition have are not against BCS league teams, but instead against mediocre teams.

diabsoule
11-24-2010, 04:52 PM
Where ya goin with this? LSU and Auburn are the only ones with realistic title chances right now, and i would even rule LSU as a long shot.

P-L mentioned the Big Ten's best teams SOS so I provided the SEC's.

If we were to go off of anyone's rankings, I would use Sagarin's rankings.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 04:57 PM
Link?

There are bunch of different ways to measure SOS(Here's one (http://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team) and more from google (http://www.google.com/search?q=college+football+strength+of+schedule&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)). Comparing OSU to BSU wrt schedules is laughable.

SOS is heavily biased as to how someone perceives a conference. I am heavily biased against the Big Least, ACC, MWC, Sun Belt, MAC, CUSA, WAC, etc... Basically every conference outside of the big 4.

There are not enough mutual games out of 120 teams to build a strong network of rankings of all teams. This means SOS is highly suspect as ranking of teams is already highly suspect. People go on what they see and reputation. It's a weakly correlated network based on opinion. And people that make their rankings are highly opinionated already.

Rankings like Sagarin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Sagarin) work a lot better when you have a giant statistical universe. I think they are a lot better for college basketball where there are more games, and more diverse games. The computer models for CFB just don't have enough data.



The fact that BSU and TCU are even in the conversation is a miracle.

Marshall (not bowl eligible)
Miami (FL) (bowl eligible)
Ohio (yes)
Eastern Michigan (no)
@Illinois (yes)
Indiana (no)
@Wisconsin (yes)
Purdue (yes)
@Minnesota (no)
Penn State (yes)
@Iowa (yes)
Michigan (yes)

8 bowl eligible teams. And the crappy Big10 teams have been successful out of conference against rinky dink opposition. It's when they play BCS schools that they have problems.

vs

neutral-Virginia Tech (bowl eligible)
@Wyoming (not bowl eligible)
Oregon State (not bowl eligible, but has a chance)
@New Mexico State (not bowl eligible)
Toledo (yes)
@San Jose State (not)
Louisiana Tech (not)
Hawai'i (yes)
@Idaho (no but has a chance)
Fresno State (yes)
@Nevada (yes)
Utah State (no)

5 bowl eligible teams, with possibly 2 more if they win this week.

And most of the wins that BSU's bowl eligible competition have are not against BCS league teams, but instead against mediocre teams.

Brochacho....all this is comin down because OSU is pissed they have zero chance at the NC this year.

The guys who do the SOS know SOS much better than we do. We can talk and talk and talk about whos schedule is tougher but the guys who come up with the formula and do the work are the only guys who really know. I disagree with it, you disagree with it but thats how it works.

Im not a fan of the BCS and the main reason is that they kept my Trojans out of the NC back in the day and now they are trying to keep BSU out, but im just one of the guys that wants to see BSU play for the money.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 04:57 PM
P-L mentioned the Big Ten's best teams SOS so I provided the SEC's.

If we were to go off of anyone's rankings, I would use Sagarin's rankings.

gotcha, thank ya sir.

JoeJoeBrown
11-24-2010, 05:13 PM
P-L mentioned the Big Ten's best teams SOS so I provided the SEC's.

If we were to go off of anyone's rankings, I would use Sagarin's rankings.

And those SEC SOS rankings are highly biased based on how people view the conference. They are not objective, but subjective.

The SEC plays very few quality OOC games, and even fewer away from home. And this isn't an SEC thing, it is something that is true for almost every major conference (generically, there are some BCS teams out there that have awesome OOC schedules). The feedback is reinforced since everyone in a conference plays each other, predominantly.

Conversely, the midmajors play a much more difficult OOC schedule as they are the cupcake teams that the BCS schools use to fill their schedule.

Is there really much difference between cupcakes, between the bottom 60 teams? It's noise, but that's what separates a lot of these SOS ratings.

I wonder if next year we will hear how crappy OSU's schedule is with Miami, Nebraska, Penn State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Colorado, MSU. Note that 12 of the last 27 NCs were won by these teams (including OSU).

This conversation has reinforced to me how silly SOS and computer rankings are. Also, BSU plays a weak schedule. Most of the fault is their own, some of it is external.

They are a rising power, a poor man's FSU. Until they take the attitude of anytime, anywhere, they will have major question marks.

I'd argue that all of their OOC games must be against BCS schools, with at least two of those being perennial top 25 programs. And they must consistently win the vast majority of those games if they want to stay at the top of the CFB world.

Because this is what the rest of the BCS schools from the top 4 conferences do each and every year, except you have to double the number of difficult games.

This argument applies to TCU and the rest of the midmajors that have big time aspirations.

I'd love to see the power structure change to better accommodate new upstarts, and demote those that don't take CFB seriously. Much like someone mentioned earlier with how the Euro soccer leagues do it (bottom teams get demoted, top lower league teams get promoted).

Until then, the odds are stacked against the newcomers. BCS conference league play is brutal. They need to try their damnedest to prove that they belong. I have yet to see that with their scheduling.

JoeJoeBrown
11-24-2010, 05:37 PM
Brochacho....all this is comin down because OSU is pissed they have zero chance at the NC this year.

The guys who do the SOS know SOS much better than we do. We can talk and talk and talk about whos schedule is tougher but the guys who come up with the formula and do the work are the only guys who really know. I disagree with it, you disagree with it but thats how it works.

Im not a fan of the BCS and the main reason is that they kept my Trojans out of the NC back in the day and now they are trying to keep BSU out, but im just one of the guys that wants to see BSU play for the money.

Brochacho? Dear lord, why do I bother?

Anyways, I took grad level statistical analysis courses in college and I am currently working on algorithms involving Bayesian filters, general collaborative filtering, and other predictive algorithmic techniques right now for my software. I have a clue about how these algorithms work. The rankings are based on subjective information. Subjective in his algorithms and subjective in preseason rankings.

The Elo rating that the BCS uses is based off of a chess ranking algorithm developed in the 1930s.

Read here if you want to learn more.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system)

The biggest thing that teams use to exploit these computers is called selective pairing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system#Selective_pairing). I.e. selecting teams that you think you can beat yet that you will get much credit for beating. Exploit this enough and you have inflated your ranking.

Sagarin argues that this information is negligible in his algorithm after a certain point. I call BS. The network of games is extremely tiny compared to the number of teams. We are talking 12 games times 120 teams. Common opponents are minimal. Time frame of wins and loses matter, yet aren't taken into account. There are tons of holes in this approach.

Yet Sagarin argues that preseason rankings wash out. This is ridiculous. All teams at the beginning of the season should be ranked even. But they are not. That information is in his system. He bases his livelihood on this, so of course he is going to argue this way.

I am not mad that OSU is out of the conversation. They don't deserve to be in it this year. They are not that good. Still, they would have dominated BSU's schedule. I think 15-20 other teams would have as well. Again, that is subjective, but based on watching decades of CFB.

Differences of opinion make this interesting, but I really don't know how anyone could honestly argue that any Big10, SEC, Big12, Pac10, or even ACC team doesn't have a significantly harder schedule than BSU or TCU.

JoeJoeBrown
11-24-2010, 05:39 PM
Also, 10 year SOS per Sagarin: OSU 35th BSU 95th.

descendency
11-24-2010, 05:43 PM
I'm hoping for Oregon to win the PAC10 and Wisconsin fails to win the Big 10. Then Ohio State will have to play one of those "little sisters of the poor".

edit: All of the programs doing all of the bitching have ZERO hope because two MAJOR conference teams are currently in the two spots.

JoeJoeBrown
11-24-2010, 05:52 PM
I'm hoping for Oregon to win the PAC10 and Wisconsin fails to win the Big 10. Then Ohio State will have to play one of those "little sisters of the poor".

edit: All of the programs doing all of the bitching have ZERO hope because two MAJOR conference teams are currently in the two spots.

I would like it, but it won't happen. Would make for fun pre-bowl hyperbole. Kinda like when Oregon fans were talking non-stop crap last season about their high powered attack until their O ran into a real defense.

GB12
11-24-2010, 06:08 PM
TCU or Boise would definitely be the favorites to beat Ohio State this year.

That's also the most realistic Rose Bowl matchup at this point.

No it's not. Unless Wisconsin loses to a Northwestern team who is without their starting QB, Ohio State has no shot at the Rose Bowl.

bearsfan_51
11-24-2010, 06:08 PM
No it's not. Unless Wisconsin loses to a Northwestern team who is without their starting QB, Ohio State has no shot at the Rose Bowl.
Ohio State will likely pass Wisconsin in the BCS standings. It's razon-thin at the moment, and Michigan has a stronger computer ranking than Northwestern.

Shane P. Hallam
11-24-2010, 06:18 PM
Ohio State will likely pass Wisconsin in the BCS standings. It's razon-thin at the moment, and Michigan has a stronger computer ranking than Northwestern.

I don't think that will happen. It actually isn't razor thin. Wisconsin has a fair lead.

Wisconsin - .7688
Ohio State - .7148


Wisconsin has a better shot of catching Stanford who isn't even a hundreth of a point higher than OSU to Wisconsin.

GB12
11-24-2010, 06:20 PM
Ohio State will likely pass Wisconsin in the BCS standings. It's razon-thin at the moment, and Michigan has a stronger computer ranking than Northwestern.

We have a .04 lead in the computer rankings, a two spot lead in the USA Today poll, and a three spot lead in the Harris poll.

There's no way Ohio State is jumping us in either human rankings and I doubt beating a 7-4 Michigan team is going to be enough to jump us in the computer rankings if we beat a 7-4 Northwestern team. Even if they jump us in the computer rankings, that's only 1/3 of the BCS formula. There's no way that they gain so much from the computer rankings to cancel out our lead in the other 2/3rds.

Not a chance Ohio State passes Wisconsin.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 06:26 PM
doesnt wisconsin get the nod anyway since they have the head to head?

edit: i highly doubt OSU WOULD pass them since Wisconsin has the head 2 head.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 06:29 PM
Brochacho? Dear lord, why do I bother?


Why cant we just be friends?

GB12
11-24-2010, 06:31 PM
doesnt wisconsin get the nod anyway since they have the head to head?

If Michigan State loses, yes. But it's a three way tie right now and since Wisconsin beat Ohio State, Michigan State beat Wisconsin, and Ohio State and Michigan state didn't play the tie breaker becomes the best BCS ranking.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 06:33 PM
If Michigan State loses, yes. But it's a three way tie right now and since Wisconsin beat Ohio State, Michigan State beat Wisconsin, and Ohio State and Michigan state didn't play the tie breaker becomes the best BCS ranking.

alrighty, well i highly doubt seeing OSU pass Wisconsin with Wisconsin having the head to head.

JoeJoeBrown
11-24-2010, 06:36 PM
Why cant we just be friends?

We can. You are a good sport.

villagewarrior
11-24-2010, 07:22 PM
This is why Division I college football needs a playoff system. It is the only sport I can think of right now that doesn't have a playoff. You have questions about whether or not TCU or Boise can hang with the big boys? Then let them play the big boys. All Boise has done is schedule any BCS school that will play them and beat them. A playoff is needed to resolve this.

descendency
11-24-2010, 07:27 PM
This is why Division I college football needs a playoff system. It is the only sport I can think of right now that doesn't have a playoff. You have questions about whether or not TCU or Boise can hang with the big boys? Then let them play the big boys. All Boise has done is schedule any BCS school that will play them and beat them. A playoff is needed to resolve this.

This is kind of a lie. Boise State requests larger than normal amount of proceeds from games when they go on the road and their home field is just annoying to play at.

Boise would get plenty of good OOC games if this were not true. Just look at OSU and how they schedule a major school per year (This year was Miami, last was USC, years before that was NC State [during Rivers] and Texas). The same is true about most schools.

Boise could get 3 major opponents per year if they wanted.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 07:42 PM
This is kind of a lie. Boise State requests larger than normal amount of proceeds from games when they go on the road and their home field is just annoying to play at.

Boise would get plenty of good OOC games if this were not true. Just look at OSU and how they schedule a major school per year (This year was Miami, last was USC, years before that was NC State [during Rivers] and Texas). The same is true about most schools.

Boise could get 3 major opponents per year if they wanted.

Well most schools dont want to come back to boise so doesnt it make sense that BSU would get more money if they arent requiring a return trip?

JoeJoeBrown
11-24-2010, 08:08 PM
Well most schools dont want to come back to boise so doesnt it make sense that BSU would get more money if they arent requiring a return trip?

Nope. They aren't big enough to be able to make demands like that. It's not fair but thats life.

wogitalia
11-24-2010, 08:36 PM
Nope. They aren't big enough to be able to make demands like that. It's not fair but thats life.

This is the whole essence of the problem though. The big teams hide behind being big teams. They refuse to play Boise State, thus taking away their chance to prove whether they belong or not.

Boise relies on the few teams that are game enough to play them and then needs a ridiculous amount of luck to go any further. Results count for nothing because of the "big schools" who are afraid to prove they belong on the field.

Personally I think the SOS stuff should be calculated over a 3 year period. Boise scheduled two strong teams in Oregon State and VTech, it isn't their fault that those teams turned out to be pretty bloody ordinary this year, based on previous years they should have been strong. A school and conferences strength should be determined not just on this season but the previous 2 as well. That way the conferences that have been continually exposed in bowl games despite their big 4 status would lose a little of their priority and favourtism in the current system.

The system is flawed, but Boise deserve a shot at the title more than teams like OSU. They have done everything in their power over the last 4 years to get there. They have beaten anyone with the guts to play them, they have won their bowl games, they have thrashed the inferior competition they should thrash. The Big Ten is only marginally stronger than the WAC at the moment with the jokes that are Illinois, Indiana, Michigan and Minnesota, amongst others. The Big 12 is also pretty damn ordinary and the WAC has been beating up on the PAC 10 this year.

Playoffs really are the only fair system but that is a pipe dream because the big colleges, the ones with the power, don't want a fair system, it isn't in their best interest to have a system that allows smaller schools onto a level playing field. Which is fair enough from their perspective, it is everyone else that needs to step up and change the system. At the moment the only way that I can see it changing would be for all of the Big 4 to have an unbeaten team and have their team not go because their conference gets belittled. So basically the SEC would play whichever of the other 3 conferences wins the random lottery that is the rankings. It would be even better if the ACC would get respectable and make that 5 perfect teams...

H.O.O.D
11-24-2010, 09:15 PM
It's not a baseless point. I'm not at all convinced that a school like Boise State could run the table in any of the four major conferences (sorry ACC).

Utah will be a good barometer of that next year. Until then we really can't say.

That said, they deserve a chance at this point. There's nothing left for them to do. If they get stomped, they get stomped. End of discussion.

Utah got stomped by TCU not sure how good of a barometer they'd be considering that...they are a good team but they were not a top 10 team. And next year will be different than this year, just like this year is different than last due to the turnover at this level.

JoeJoeBrown
11-24-2010, 11:09 PM
This is the whole essence of the problem though. The big teams hide behind being big teams. They refuse to play Boise State, thus taking away their chance to prove whether they belong or not.

False. BSU demands $1M to play a big school if it is not a home and home series. A big school is supposed to play a dangerous non AQ team and pay them? Ridiculous. These schools built CFB into what it is today. If it weren't for the historic powers, CFB would be a much smaller sport. I mean 30k stadiums in small TV markets are not building the sport.


Boise relies on the few teams that are game enough to play them and then needs a ridiculous amount of luck to go any further. Results count for nothing because of the "big schools" who are afraid to prove they belong on the field.

Personally I think the SOS stuff should be calculated over a 3 year period. Boise scheduled two strong teams in Oregon State and VTech, it isn't their fault that those teams turned out to be pretty bloody ordinary this year, based on previous years they should have been strong. A school and conferences strength should be determined not just on this season but the previous 2 as well. That way the conferences that have been continually exposed in bowl games despite their big 4 status would lose a little of their priority and favourtism in the current system.

You mean the BSU team that has an average SOS over the last 10 years of 95?

Even better, is over the last 3 years their ranks are 2007:113 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm), 2008:94 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt08.htm), and 2009:96 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm)!

Giving an average Sagarin SOS of 101. Are we still talking about how awesome they are? I don't even like Sagarin's rankings because they are subjective (as is any SOS system out there), but it's as good as any.

Since you want to talk about OSU, they are 2007:53 , 2008:46 2009:50. That gives an average of 49.7. Not good, but in the top half of schedules. They schedule 3 utter POS teams a year. Having crappy Big10 bottom feeders kills the SOS vs say an SEC top team. Still they play many top quality teams. BSU plays zero or one per year. Those are facts, not emotional hyperbole. They have an absolutely terrible schedule year in and year out.


The system is flawed, but Boise deserve a shot at the title more than teams like OSU. They have done everything in their power over the last 4 years to get there. They have beaten anyone with the guts to play them, they have won their bowl games, they have thrashed the inferior competition they should thrash. The Big Ten is only marginally stronger than the WAC at the moment with the jokes that are Illinois, Indiana, Michigan and Minnesota, amongst others. The Big 12 is also pretty damn ordinary and the WAC has been beating up on the PAC 10 this year.


Complete and utter junk. You seem to have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not even sure that you watch CFB. The comparison of the WAC to the BigTen is ridiculously off. All but Minnesota would win the WAC championship (this is conjecture, not fact).

That BSU is 8-15 lifetime vs BCS teams (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/wac/boise_state/yearly_results.php?year=2005) since 1996(the first season it was D1)?

It's not that teams won't play them, it's that BSU makes presumptuous demands after a paltry few wins over BCS teams.

If BSU really gave a damn, they would schedule as many BCS teams as possible. With compensation demands put in line with realistic expectations from what WAC and MWC teams normally get for playing a one and done series with a BCS schools. They have not run any sort of gauntlet, nor had any sort of long term success against quality competition to rationally make these demands.

FSU laid out the gameplan for how to ascend from small time to big time. I suggest BSU take that path. Until then, they are going to be wannabes and they deserve to be wannabes because they won't step up to the plate.

A team with a bottom 15% schedule year in and year out demands to be treated like it's the best team in the country. The same team that has only won 8 games in it's entire history against BCS schools. 8 freaking wins. Alabama beat 11 BCS teams all in one season last year.

They need to prove that they are capable of playing far more than one quality game or two a season. They have not.

SickwithIt1010
11-24-2010, 11:23 PM
Jesus, write a novel man.

wogitalia
11-25-2010, 06:45 AM
False. BSU demands $1M to play a big school if it is not a home and home series. A big school is supposed to play a dangerous non AQ team and pay them? Ridiculous. These schools built CFB into what it is today. If it weren't for the historic powers, CFB would be a much smaller sport. I mean 30k stadiums in small TV markets are not building the sport.

How is that an unreasonable demand? That is what they would figure to make from a home and home series, which is a perfectly fair offer. You are simply defending the big schools bullying the small schools which is exactly what I said the problem was. If the big school isn't willing to play a home and home then pay the team that is willing to literally travel anywhere to play you. That is a fair system of give and take. The big schools aren't willing to do it because they know they are a very good chance to lose the game and they don't want to pay for that kind of risk. I don't see what is unreasonable about requesting one million, the big schools pay upward of 500k to play Div II schools so they can smash them.

Hey maybe I'm being unjust in expecting a fair system but the BCS is the only system I know of where a big team can bully and refuse to play a smaller team.


You mean the BSU team that has an average SOS over the last 10 years of 95?

Even better, is over the last 3 years their ranks are 2007:113, 2008:94, and 2009:96!

Giving an average Sagarin SOS of 101. Are we still talking about how awesome they are? I don't even like Sagarin's rankings because they are subjective (as is any SOS system out there), but it's as good as any.

I think you misread what I suggested. I have no idea if it helps BSU or TCU or who it helps but I think a better way to work out a strength of schedule would be to use 3 years for each team to calculate the strength that they represent. I'm not saying take the same flawed system and average it over 3 years.

That way if a team is a NC contender for two years and you schedule them in the 3rd year and beat them they don't become worthless. That way scheduling teams like Penn State, Virginia Tech or Oregon State for example isn't basically meaningless because those teams have come out and had awful years.

Hell, I don't even know if such a system would change anything, but your biggest complaint seems to be sample size for calculating schedule strength, using 3 years(I like 3 because it is what you expect to get from each player) would give a far great sample size and would give a better conference vs conference rating.


Complete and utter junk. You seem to have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not even sure that you watch CFB. The comparison of the WAC to the BigTen is ridiculously off. All but Minnesota would win the WAC championship (this is conjecture, not fact).

I am a Michigan and Michigan State fan first and foremost so I do know what I'm talking about. None of the teams that I mentioned I would pick to beat Nevada more than 5 out of 10 times, nevermind BSU. It's depth is far better but the Big 10, 12 and PAC 10 have all been very poor this year and they've all been better than the Big East or ACC. Sure the depth isn't there, but I would have Boise to win 5 out of 10 against any Big Ten team this year and better against most of them.

If BSU really gave a damn, they would schedule as many BCS teams as possible. With compensation demands put in line with realistic expectations from what WAC and MWC teams normally get for playing a one and done series with a BCS schools. They have not run any sort of gauntlet, nor had any sort of long term success against quality competition to rationally make these demands.

They do? Just because schools bigger than VT and Oregon State wont play them doesn't mean they aren't trying to schedule bigger teams. Simple truth is that bgiger teams aren't willing to play them. They've done what they can within the system to prove they belong. Next year they move to the biggest conference that was willing to take them.

BSU and TCU are both victims of politics. They had to face each other last year because the bowl pickers didn't want to risk them beating a BCS team. Politics is all that is stopping them. It is all a non-issue if Oregon and Auburn win out even though both programs have been caught cheating this year because those two deserve it more due to stronger schedules. That said, if either loses, then TCU and Boise deserve the spot and I wouldn't care if one of my teams was up against them or not, they deserve the spot.

Right now BSU and TCU are the equivalent of Championship teams in English Soccer that have won the league and then had the premier leagues top teams and the league itself come together to find some loophole to stop them getting promoted. If that happened in that league it would be a massive uproar, it is just the old school administrators that cause it in the NCAA.

FSU laid out the gameplan for how to ascend from small time to big time. I suggest BSU take that path. Until then, they are going to be wannabes and they deserve to be wannabes because they won't step up to the plate.


FSU did it a long time ago, times change and with the internet age and processing of information it should be expected to be quicker. Fact is that Boise has put a team together that can play with anyone.

A team with a bottom 15% schedule year in and year out demands to be treated like it's the best team in the country. The same team that has only won 8 games in it's entire history against BCS schools. 8 freaking wins. Alabama beat 11 BCS teams all in one season last year.

Where have they demanded it? They have asked for the opportunity and are being shut out. They want a shot at a title which they have put 2 years into getting a shot at, that's the thing, teams that have lost 1 game this year and a few last year expect a shot ahead of a team that regardless of schedule has gone unbeaten for 2 seasons. That is earning your shot and if it isn't then no one deserves to play for the title, just vacate the thing or give it to the SEC champion...


They need to prove that they are capable of playing far more than one quality game or two a season. They have not.

You can only play who you play. If we are only going to judge a team on one opponent they play lets just put South Carolina in the NC for their ultra impressive win over Alabama. Boise have crushed every weak team they've played and they've done it without even running up the score. They have beaten the "good" teams they've played.

I'm not a Boise fan and as a new fan to the sport I have no lingering nostalgia to anything. I want teams that earn a shot to get a shot. Wouldn't matter if it was Boise or East Carolina, if they have done what Boise and TCU have done they deserve a shot at the title over 1 win teams from the so called power conferences.

xxxxxxxx
11-25-2010, 07:14 AM
The bottom line is, Boise would **** on OSU and make terrell pryor cry to mommy and tweet about basketball some more. end of story.

Sniper
11-25-2010, 08:46 AM
The bottom line is, Boise would **** on OSU and make terrell pryor cry to mommy and tweet about basketball some more. end of story.

But Ohio State's football team isn't really relevant to the discussion. At no point in time did Gee say that the Buckeyes deserved a BCS spot ahead of the Broncos. So, no, that's not the bottom line.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2010, 09:16 AM
Utah got stomped by TCU not sure how good of a barometer they'd be considering that...they are a good team but they were not a top 10 team. And next year will be different than this year, just like this year is different than last due to the turnover at this level.
Because, of course, one game is worthwhile for a broad basis of comparison.

The argument is always that schools in the MWC might be able to pull of an upset in a big game, but couldn't endure playing a conference schedule. Seeing as how Utah is one of the top current non-AQ schools over the last 10 years, that's a pretty damn good barometer since they will actually be playing in BCS conference next year.

Seriously, sometimes I think people argue just to ******* argue.

Brent
11-25-2010, 09:21 AM
The argument is always that schools in the MWC might be able to pull of an upset in a big game, but couldn't endure playing a conference schedule. Seeing as how Utah is one of the top current non-AQ schools over the last 10 years, that's a pretty damn good barometer since they will actually be playing in BCS conference next year.
I'm shocked the Big 12 hasnt pandered to TCU but I think they are still bitter about ******* Ann Richards who basically did all she could to include Baylor in the formation of the Big 12 and not TCU.

My guess is that Baylor would be on UNT's level if they werent part of the the Big 12.

yodabear
11-25-2010, 09:36 AM
We have a .04 lead in the computer rankings, a two spot lead in the USA Today poll, and a three spot lead in the Harris poll.

There's no way Ohio State is jumping us in either human rankings and I doubt beating a 7-4 Michigan team is going to be enough to jump us in the computer rankings if we beat a 7-4 Northwestern team. Even if they jump us in the computer rankings, that's only 1/3 of the BCS formula. There's no way that they gain so much from the computer rankings to cancel out our lead in the other 2/3rds.

Not a chance Ohio State passes Wisconsin.

And if they do, its freeking bull **** and the BCS is even more awful and communist than I already thought.

diabsoule
11-25-2010, 10:26 AM
False. BSU demands $1M to play a big school if it is not a home and home series. A big school is supposed to play a dangerous non AQ team and pay them? Ridiculous. These schools built CFB into what it is today. If it weren't for the historic powers, CFB would be a much smaller sport. I mean 30k stadiums in small TV markets are not building the sport.

You mean the BSU team that has an average SOS over the last 10 years of 95?

Even better, is over the last 3 years their ranks are 2007:113 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm), 2008:94 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt08.htm), and 2009:96 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm)!

Giving an average Sagarin SOS of 101. Are we still talking about how awesome they are? I don't even like Sagarin's rankings because they are subjective (as is any SOS system out there), but it's as good as any.

Since you want to talk about OSU, they are 2007:53 , 2008:46 2009:50. That gives an average of 49.7. Not good, but in the top half of schedules. They schedule 3 utter POS teams a year. Having crappy Big10 bottom feeders kills the SOS vs say an SEC top team. Still they play many top quality teams. BSU plays zero or one per year. Those are facts, not emotional hyperbole. They have an absolutely terrible schedule year in and year out.



That BSU is 8-15 lifetime vs BCS teams (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/wac/boise_state/yearly_results.php?year=2005) since 1996(the first season it was D1)?

It's not that teams won't play them, it's that BSU makes presumptuous demands after a paltry few wins over BCS teams.

If BSU really gave a damn, they would schedule as many BCS teams as possible. With compensation demands put in line with realistic expectations from what WAC and MWC teams normally get for playing a one and done series with a BCS schools. They have not run any sort of gauntlet, nor had any sort of long term success against quality competition to rationally make these demands.

FSU laid out the gameplan for how to ascend from small time to big time. I suggest BSU take that path. Until then, they are going to be wannabes and they deserve to be wannabes because they won't step up to the plate.

A team with a bottom 15% schedule year in and year out demands to be treated like it's the best team in the country. The same team that has only won 8 games in it's entire history against BCS schools. 8 freaking wins. Alabama beat 11 BCS teams all in one season last year.


So, you're saying that the Big West is Division 1? That's the first conference Boise State joined when they began their football program. They joined an FBS conference in 2001 when they joined the WAC, which would be a good starting point.

Since that time they have become a top football program and continue getting better. Sure, **** on the level of competition they play, but can they help which conference they play in? They have been petitioning the MWC for quite some time to be a member and just this year were they invited. Would we be ******** on them if they had been playing TCU, BYU, and Utah yearly?

They have been building their program for only 15 years and have met incredible success. They are scheduling big schools to play them. They played Virginia Tech and Oregon State this year, next year they open the year vs. Georgia, and in 2014 they play Ole Miss. They have also scheduled Michigan State and BYU. Their doing what they can and are doing what they should now by beating whoever they play by a wide margin. They have made the case that their the elite of the WAC. Next year when they join the Mountain West will begin a new step when they get to face TCU on a yearly basis. Then in 2012 their competition will stiffen when they face TCU, Fresno State, and Nevada on a yearly basis along with Air Force.

Their 2012 opponents will be:
Michigan State
BYU
Miami (OH)
TCU
Nevada
Fresno State
Air Force
Colorado State
San Diego State
New Mexico
UNLV

Possibly Hawaii if that school joins the MWC for football only.

That schedule is significantly stronger than the one they currently play. You know this argument would end if they are put into a championship game and get beat. It would end immediately if they got crushed.

SickwithIt1010
11-25-2010, 12:45 PM
Their 2012 opponents will be:
Michigan State
BYU
Miami (OH)
TCU
Nevada
Fresno State
Air Force
Colorado State
San Diego State
New Mexico
UNLV


and of course Georgia

diabsoule
11-25-2010, 12:56 PM
and of course Georgia

That's next year in 2011-2012. The schedule I posted is the 2012-2013.

Next year Boise St. plays Georgia, Toledo, and Tulsa along with TCU and the rest of the Mountain West.

SickwithIt1010
11-25-2010, 12:58 PM
That's next year in 2011-2012. The schedule I posted is the 2012-2013.

Next year Boise St. plays Georgia, Toledo, and Tulsa along with TCU and the rest of the Mountain West.

gotcha gotcha, good call. I guess i was a little confused because i didnt think they played UGA and MSU in the same season. Shows how much im paying attention right now.

YAYareaRB
11-25-2010, 02:32 PM
I wish shoelace beats their ass.. old ******

SickwithIt1010
11-25-2010, 02:35 PM
I wish shoelace beats their ass.. old ******

i do too, but the guy has got to stay healthy first.

Smooth Criminal
11-25-2010, 02:41 PM
TCU or Boise would definitely be the favorites to beat Ohio State this year.

That's also the most realistic Rose Bowl matchup at this point.


I don't think OSU will pass Wisconsin. I think if we see OSU beat Michigan they'll play in the Orange bowl, with the Sugar bowl taking TCU to play an SEC.

keylime_5
11-25-2010, 03:19 PM
why would the Sugar take TCU over Ohio State? This doesn't make sense from the tendency of the BCS in the past to take the money drawing teams like OSU and Notre Dame as at-larges as soon as they get the chance.

SickwithIt1010
11-25-2010, 03:46 PM
why would the Sugar take TCU over Ohio State? This doesn't make sense from the tendency of the BCS in the past to take the money drawing teams like OSU and Notre Dame as at-larges as soon as they get the chance.

cuz tcu is better than you guys.

Sniper
11-25-2010, 03:52 PM
But the Sugar would make a ******** more money from Ohio State ahead of TCU.

Smooth Criminal
11-25-2010, 03:54 PM
I don't know why they would, there's no benefit to having TCU. Worse ratings certainly. But a lot of the projections have the sugar bowl opting for TCU over Ohio State.

Works out for me. Florida traveling is easier/safer then New Orleans, and tickets to the Orange Bowl are much cheaper.

SickwithIt1010
11-25-2010, 04:14 PM
But the Sugar would make a ******** more money from Ohio State ahead of TCU.

i know this, but i wanna see the best teams play. i could care less about how much money is made.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
11-25-2010, 04:23 PM
Like I've said before, it's not hard to get up for one game when you've played a bunch of patsies all year that don't really force you to use your depth and challenge you consistently.

This is completely assbackwards. If anything it is more tough to get up an face someone after facing a bunch of nobodies. It is a lot tougher to deal with when you get punched back by someone your own size.

Sniper
11-25-2010, 04:29 PM
i know this, but i wanna see the best teams play. i could care less about how much money is made.

That's great. When you get named to the Sugar Bowl committee, maybe they'll care about what you have to say.

This is completely assbackwards. If anything it is more tough to get up an face someone after facing a bunch of nobodies. It is a lot tougher to deal with when you get punched back by someone your own size.

It's tougher when you have to play your players for all four quarters. It takes a bigger toll on both your starters and your depth players to play for four quarters against a solid football team than it does to play your starters for a half against the Little Sisters of the Poor.

RealityCheck
11-25-2010, 05:59 PM
I already hated Ohio State before. Now I hate it with an even bigger passion.

So, I'm gonna say it for the millionth time: there's no point in playing in a contest you can't win. We want playoffs, and we want it now.

SickwithIt1010
11-25-2010, 06:04 PM
That's great. When you get named to the Sugar Bowl committee, maybe they'll care about what you have to say.

Maybe when you get a better attitude ill care about what you have to say.

Sniper
11-25-2010, 06:20 PM
My sincerest apologies for telling the truth. No one gives a flying **** what you want unless you're going to be putting money in their pocket.

SickwithIt1010
11-25-2010, 06:34 PM
My sincerest apologies for telling the truth. No one gives a flying **** what you want unless you're going to be putting money in their pocket.

ill give em a couple bucks if they pick the right games.

Sniper
11-25-2010, 06:41 PM
ill give em a couple bucks if they pick the right games.

A couple bucks =/= millions of bucks. The Sugar Bowl would make more money putting Notre Dame against Michigan than it would off of Boise State against TCU. They don't give a rat's ass about who the team du jour is. In the end, money decides who goes. If you're trying to make money and you take TCU or Boise over Ohio State or, say, Alabama, you are officially a dumbass. The BCS people may be stubborn and arrogant, but they know how to make money.

SickwithIt1010
11-25-2010, 06:43 PM
A couple bucks =/= millions of bucks. The Sugar Bowl would make more money putting Notre Dame against Michigan than it would off of Boise State against TCU. They don't give a rat's ass about who the team du jour is. In the end, money decides who goes. If you're trying to make money and you take TCU or Boise over Ohio State or, say, Alabama, you are officially a dumbass. The BCS people may be stubborn and arrogant, but they know how to make money.

well i dont want it to be BSU vs TCU....they need to play different opponents.

I understand your point man im not arguing that. As a college football fan im sure you see where im coming from when i say i just want to see the best football possible.

Sniper
11-25-2010, 06:51 PM
well i dont want it to be BSU vs TCU....they need to play different opponents.

I understand your point man im not arguing that. As a college football fan im sure you see where im coming from when i say i just want to see the best football possible.

I don't think there's a sane person under the age of 30 that doesn't want a playoff. You're just looking at way too many old-money school presidents and other assorted rich dudes that prefer making a buttload of money than seeing the best football available, though I'd argue that a playoff would increase their profits tenfold.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2010, 07:05 PM
I don't think there's a sane person under the age of 30 that doesn't want a playoff.
I'm 28 and I don't want a playoff. Not sure if I'm sane.

MidwayMonster31
11-25-2010, 08:12 PM
I think it's been said before that Ohio State and USC (or the Rose Bowl in general) are the people that benefit the most from the system the way it is.
I also agree that a correctly (keyword) implemented playoff could make them a lot more money. I just think people like Gee don't want the Boise States, or Utahs (until next year), or even Appalachian State, should they ever move up to FBS, taking money from the Big Ten or Pac-10 by having Boise State or TCU take playoff spots from Ohio State or Stanford.
On a sidenote, I think the reason the SEC wants a playoff so much is that they know that they stand to gain a lot. They could easily get 2 teams in every year and with their success in BCS games, they could have their teams playing 4 games on a playoff instead of 2 with the BCS.
The BCS has built a system where the big conferences can create a huge cash pie for themselves, and they don't have to share with anyone but themselves. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Also, I'm under 30, am not sane in any way, shape or form, and want a playoff. I like 12 team better, but 8's fine too.

GB12
11-25-2010, 11:07 PM
I don't want playoffs. I love the BCS.

Fo realz

ryno626
11-25-2010, 11:29 PM
I am a Michigan and Michigan State fan first and foremost so I do know what I'm talking about.

How is that even possible?

andyjo672
11-26-2010, 09:26 AM
If BSU got an invite to the Big 10 i bet you they would take it...

So you're allowed to make claims without any proof but the guy you shot down above (regarding Miami beating Nevada) is not? You must go to BSU, your education is starting to show.

keylime_5
11-26-2010, 10:43 AM
i know this, but i wanna see the best teams play. i could care less about how much money is made.

So TCU beats the **** out of freakin' Utah and that's how we know they're better than teams like Ohio State and Wisconsin and all the other big boys who consistently win 10 games a year? Under Tressel the Buckeyes have rolled every team they've played OOC games that aren't of equal talent. Kansas State, OK State, Notre Dame - and they were each favorites against the Bucks believe it or not. That's not to mention Miami this year and Washington State PAC Ten champs in 02.

Unfortunately the BCS selection process isn't about the best teams going, it's about money. We could have an NC State vs Pittsburgh Orange Bowl and undfeated TCU could be in some December Bowl playing a lousy midmajor.

RealityCheck
11-26-2010, 10:53 AM
So TCU beats the **** out of freakin' Utah and that's how we know they're better than teams like Ohio State and Wisconsin and all the other big boys who consistently win 10 games a year?
1 - Both BSU, TCU and Utah have had 9+ wins seasons for a while now.

2 - TCU beat Utah who was #5 at the time by a 40-point margin on the road. OSU and Wisconsin beat average teams by a couple of TD's.

Plus, I freaking hope Denard beats the hell out of OSU this week.

keylime_5
11-26-2010, 11:02 AM
1 - Both BSU, TCU and Utah have had 9+ wins seasons for a while now.

2 - TCU beat Utah who was #5 at the time by a 40-point margin on the road. OSU and Wisconsin beat average teams by a couple of TD's.

Plus, I freaking hope Denard beats the hell out of OSU this week.

1-This was against the likes of Idaho, Fresno State, New Mexico, Nevada, etc.....not Michigan State, Michigan, Iowa, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Penn State, etc.

2-Utah was #5 at the time b/c they beat a bunch of sorry midmajors and then got beat the following week by a terrible, injury-bitten Notre Dame team. They aren't even one of the 30 best teams in the country.


Boise State and TCU can complain all they want about getting left out. They have nothing to complain about playing teams like that. Join a big boy conference, until then just be grateful that the BCS Bowls are actually taking you at all.

JoeJoeBrown
11-26-2010, 11:41 AM
1 - Both BSU, TCU and Utah have had 9+ wins seasons for a while now.

2 - TCU beat Utah who was #5 at the time by a 40-point margin on the road. OSU and Wisconsin beat average teams by a couple of TD's.

Plus, I freaking hope Denard beats the hell out of OSU this week.

I don't think the small school supporters want you arguing for them. It hurts their credibility by association.

Plus, you should focus all of your freaking hope on having a clean program at UNC than can actually win some games. Highly doubtful, but that's what hope is for.

BuckeyeDan17
11-26-2010, 11:50 AM
cuz tcu is better than you guys.

This is the most incredibly insightful post of all time. Thanks a lot for informing me man, now I don't have to ponder it myself. Thank god you're around to tell me what teams are better than OSU. I'm not mad that you're bagging on Ohio State, because, well everyone that isn't an Ohio State fan does. But really, on what ******* basis do you claim TCU is better than Ohio State. Let me guess, statistics? What? Pryor sucks? Tressel is conservative? I'm willing to bet you can't tell me something I haven't heard or know.

Seriously man? We lost 1 game on the road in one of the most hostile environments in the country and all of the sudden we don't deserve to ******* play in anything. Seriously? You seem like you're saying you want a playoff because teams like Ohio State can't win bowl games, you should send a letter to the people in charge of the BCS stating this, I'm sure they will agree, and come next season, there will be a playoff system in place for whiney ******* fans like you who hate Ohio State.

Our athletic director voiced his opinion, so what? Now everybody hates OSU more? Sad day.

Shane P. Hallam
11-26-2010, 11:52 AM
This is the most incredibly insightful post of all time. Thanks a lot for informing me man, now I don't have to ponder it myself. Thank god you're around to tell me what teams are better than OSU. I'm not mad that you're bagging on Ohio State, because, well everyone that isn't an Ohio State fan does. But really, on what ******* basis do you claim TCU is better than Ohio State. Let me guess, statistics? What? Pryor sucks? Tressel is conservative? I'm willing to bet you can't tell me something I haven't heard or know.

Seriously man? We lost 1 game on the road in one of the most hostile environments in the country and all of the sudden we don't deserve to ******* play in anything. Seriously? You seem like you're saying you want a playoff because teams like Ohio State can't win bowl games, you should send a letter to the people in charge of the BCS stating this, I'm sure they will agree, and come next season, there will be a playoff system in place for whiney ******* fans like you who hate Ohio State.

Our athletic director voiced his opinion, so what? Now everybody hates OSU more? Sad day.

It was the President, not athletic director. This whole argument is pointless at this point...

BuckeyeDan17
11-26-2010, 11:55 AM
Yeah, forgot it was the president. I thought I saw AD on the ESPN ticker. I'm done arguing about it, doesn't seem like it's going to go anywhere.

SickwithIt1010
11-26-2010, 01:28 PM
So TCU beats the **** out of freakin' Utah and that's how we know they're better than teams like Ohio State and Wisconsin and all the other big boys who consistently win 10 games a year? Under Tressel the Buckeyes have rolled every team they've played OOC games that aren't of equal talent. Kansas State, OK State, Notre Dame - and they were each favorites against the Bucks believe it or not. That's not to mention Miami this year and Washington State PAC Ten champs in 02.

Unfortunately the BCS selection process isn't about the best teams going, it's about money. We could have an NC State vs Pittsburgh Orange Bowl and undfeated TCU could be in some December Bowl playing a lousy midmajor.

THEY ARE ******* RANKED HIGHER! that alone should get them into a BCS game. If the voters thought OSU was the better team they would be ranked higher than them, but they arent! so OSU has no right to be in a game over TCU.

SickwithIt1010
11-26-2010, 01:30 PM
This is the most incredibly insightful post of all time. Thanks a lot for informing me man, now I don't have to ponder it myself. Thank god you're around to tell me what teams are better than OSU. I'm not mad that you're bagging on Ohio State, because, well everyone that isn't an Ohio State fan does. But really, on what ******* basis do you claim TCU is better than Ohio State. Let me guess, statistics? What? Pryor sucks? Tressel is conservative? I'm willing to bet you can't tell me something I haven't heard or know.

Seriously man? We lost 1 game on the road in one of the most hostile environments in the country and all of the sudden we don't deserve to ******* play in anything. Seriously? You seem like you're saying you want a playoff because teams like Ohio State can't win bowl games, you should send a letter to the people in charge of the BCS stating this, I'm sure they will agree, and come next season, there will be a playoff system in place for whiney ******* fans like you who hate Ohio State.

Our athletic director voiced his opinion, so what? Now everybody hates OSU more? Sad day.


What the **** have you done to get into a bcs game over TCU or BSU? like i just told someone....TCU is ranked higher than you guys....in some ways that means people think they are better than you....which leads to them being deserving of a BCS bowl.

These voters could put OSU ahead of them if they thought they were the better team but they havent! so what the **** else do i have to tell you?

They arent even the best team in their ******* conference.

Youre a ******* joke.

keylime_5
11-26-2010, 01:32 PM
so because they are ranked higher by voters they are a better team? you don't know that. I'm not saying they dont deserve to get in a BCS game, you said they were better. A 1-loss Big Ten team or an undefeated Mtn. West team, you think TCU would be undefeated if they played a Big Ten or SEC or Big Twelve or Pac Ten schedule? Maybe, maybe not. I can tell you that there are several Big Ten and Pac Ten and SEC teams who would just cruise through TCU's schedule.

Keep in mind the polls don't mean people actually think you are better than teams ranked lower. It means they think a team deserves to be ranked higher. Undefeated Auburn and Oregon and TCU and Boise State deserves to be ranked higher than any 1-loss team to be fair, that doesn't mean a voter necessarily thinks they are better than every 1 loss team.

SickwithIt1010
11-26-2010, 01:35 PM
so because they are ranked higher by voters they are a better team? you don't know that. I'm not saying they dont deserve to get in a BCS game, you said they were better. A 1-loss Big Ten team or an undefeated Mtn. West team, you think TCU would be undefeated if they played a Big Ten or SEC or Big Twelve or Pac Ten schedule? Maybe, maybe not. I can tell you that there are several Big Ten and Pac Ten and SEC teams who would just cruise through TCU's schedule.

We have no clue what they would do in the big 10 because it isnt possible right now, so until then, YES they are a better team. Even the ******* computers....which i hate by the way have them ranked higher.

OSU does not have any argument to be in a game over anyone ranked higher than them other the stupid ******* fact that they will bring in more money because they are "THE ohio state".

and to be completely honest i think TCU would be very successful the Big 10....i dont think its that good of a conference. And the fact that you keep bringing up the Schedule argument is ridiculous considering we have found that BSU's and TCU's schedule strength is almost the same as OSU's

keylime_5
11-26-2010, 01:58 PM
We have no clue what they would do in the big 10 because it isnt possible right now, so until then, YES they are a better team. Even the ******* computers....which i hate by the way have them ranked higher.

of course the computers have them ranked higher, they are undefeated and ranked in the top 4 of all the human polls. We don't know what they would do in the big ten, but it's pretty obvious that a lot of teams, likely even just above average teams, would clean house with TCU's schedule.


OSU does not have any argument to be in a game over anyone ranked higher than them other the stupid ******* fact that they will bring in more money because they are "THE ohio state".

Like I said, until TCU and Boise play a BCS worthy schedule they can shut up about 1 loss teams who play real schedules getting in bowls over them. Winning the Big Ten and the only blemish being losing on the road to a great Wisconsin team in one of the most hostile places to play in the country compared to going undefeated on a Mountain West schedule is plenty comparable. I'd like to see TCU or Boise play @Wisconsin or @Alabama or @Oregon or @Ohio State.


and to be completely honest i think TCU would be very successful the Big 10....i dont think its that good of a conference. And the fact that you keep bringing up the Schedule argument is ridiculous considering we have found that BSU's and TCU's schedule strength is almost the same as OSU's

TCU probably would be a good team in the Big Twelve or Big Ten. IT's a shame they were left out when the Big Twelve was formed, they used to be a decent Big 8 Team before realignment. That's not the point here, the point is what have you done not what would you do.


..And if anyone honestly thinks that Boise and TCU have played a harder schedule than any BIg Ten, Big Twelve, ACC, SEC, or Pac Ten team this year then they are just ignorant or really dim.

SickwithIt1010
11-26-2010, 02:02 PM
of course the computers have them ranked higher, they are undefeated and ranked in the top 4 of all the human polls. We don't know what they would do in the big ten, but it's pretty obvious that a lot of teams, likely even just above average teams, would clean house with TCU's schedule.



Like I said, until TCU and Boise play a BCS worthy schedule they can shut up about 1 loss teams who play real schedules getting in bowls over them. Winning the Big Ten and the only blemish being losing on the road to a great Wisconsin team in one of the most hostile places to play in the country compared to going undefeated on a Mountain West schedule is plenty comparable. I'd like to see TCU or Boise play @Wisconsin or @Alabama or @Oregon or @Ohio State.



TCU probably would be a good team in the Big Twelve or Big Ten. IT's a shame they were left out when the Big Twelve was formed, they used to be a decent Big 8 Team before realignment. That's not the point here, the point is what have you done not what would you do.


..And if anyone honestly thinks that Boise and TCU have played a harder schedule than any BIg Ten, Big Twelve, ACC, SEC, or Pac Ten team this year then they are just ignorant or really dim.

Well ive personally watched BSU go into Oregon and beat there ass, so i know theyre not afraid of goin in there.....Saw em go into Va Tech this year.....beat em.

Idk man, to me it just seems like you think you guys have to be in a BCS game because youre OSU.....thats not how it should work....probably will happen, but it shouldnt.

Smooth Criminal
11-26-2010, 05:34 PM
No, we think well be in a BCS bowl because were likely to be 11-1 in a real conference, ranked in the top 8 in the BCS. Its not like they're not deserving.

But the TV ratings and money involved certainly help their cause. If Texas had made it to 6-6 they'd have got a much better bowl then most other 6-6 teams. Money is a huge part of the system and you really need to accept that and stop complaining about everything. It is what it is, and you're not going to change anything by bitching on a message board.

RealityCheck
11-26-2010, 05:42 PM
I don't think the small school supporters want you arguing for them. It hurts their credibility by association.

Plus, you should focus all of your freaking hope on having a clean program at UNC than can actually win some games. Highly doubtful, but that's what hope is for.
Yeah, throw UNC in the conversation. Whatever. We're having a great season considering all we've been through.

And talk about strength of schedule. It doesn't matter who you play, but how you play.

SickwithIt1010
11-26-2010, 05:44 PM
No, we think well be in a BCS bowl because were likely to be 11-1 in a real conference, ranked in the top 8 in the BCS. Its not like they're not deserving.

But the TV ratings and money involved certainly help their cause. If Texas had made it to 6-6 they'd have got a much better bowl then most other 6-6 teams. Money is a huge part of the system and you really need to accept that and stop complaining about everything. It is what it is, and you're not going to change anything by bitching on a message board.

I dont gotta accept ****, TCU and BSU are better teams. They deserve to be in the games and Ohio State doesnt, thats the truth.

Smooth Criminal
11-26-2010, 05:46 PM
I think both Boise and TCU will be in BCS games, and OSU will as well.

I never feel bad for teams that lost a game. They could have done better. But a 1 loss team from a real conference has accomplished a tougher feat then either Boise or TCU. I think they're both great teams that can compete with any in the nation. The team that's gonna get left out most likely is Stanford.

SickwithIt1010
11-26-2010, 05:48 PM
I think both Boise and TCU will be in BCS games, and OSU will as well.

I never feel bad for teams that lost a game. They could have done better. But a 1 loss teams from a real conference has accomplished a tougher feat then either Boise or TCU. I think they're both great teams that can compete with any in the nation. The team that's gonna get left out most likely is Stanford.

Thats starting to get really old....


....but if stanford gets left out thats gonna be too bad.

Smooth Criminal
11-26-2010, 05:55 PM
Thats starting to get really old....


....but if stanford gets left out thats gonna be too bad.

Well it needs to be said.

But Standford will get left out and I wont feel bad. They have a loss and they definitely don't bring the same money to the table that the other 1 loss at larges do.

SickwithIt1010
11-26-2010, 06:02 PM
Well it needs to be said.

But Standford will get left out and I wont feel bad. They have a loss and they definitely don't bring the same money to the table that the other 1 loss at larges do.

it really doesnt need to be said, the only thing that needs to be said is they are good football teams and it needs to be left at that.

And once again, who gives a **** about money, its easy for you guys to say that because you guys are OSU fans, but this should be about getting the best football teams in these games.

Smooth Criminal
11-26-2010, 06:07 PM
it really doesnt need to be said, the only thing that needs to be said is they are good football teams and it needs to be left at that.

And once again, who gives a **** about money, its easy for you guys to say that because you guys are OSU fans, but this should be about getting the best football teams in these games.

It does need to be said, cause while they are both great teams, going 12-0 with their schedules isnt even remotely difficult. Several teams in the SEC, PAC 10, Big 10, and Big 12 would go undefeated with those schedules.

Well, the only people that matter, the people that pick these bowls, care a lot about money. In fact that's all they care about. Sure you can say should be about the better teams, but its a business and like all businesses it's about making the most money. So it only makes sense that when discussing who is going to make these bowls, we include the factor that is most important to the decision makers.

When it comes to teams that are relatively even, like OSU and Stanford, you can hardly blame them for picking the team that benefits them the most.

I of course want a playoff to solve all these problems, but it is what it is.

diabsoule
11-26-2010, 11:38 PM
The whole "real conference" talk will continue until TCU and Boise State joins an AQ conference. The Big XII will be down two members when Nebraska and Colorado leave which, if I was the Big XII commish, I'd be looking to add a team like TCU, Boise State, or BYU.

The only other hope for teams like that is to form a conference on their won with the best of the rest which would look like this:

Best of the rest:
Boise State (102-15, .872, since 2001)*
TCU (108-38, .740)
BYU (98-53. .649)
Southern Miss (90-60, .600)
Air Force (86-60, .589)
Fresno State (94-60, .584
Hawaii (89-67, .570)
Colorado State (77-70., .524)
Nevada (59-64, .480, since 2000)*
Houston (70-76, .479)
Tulsa (68-80, .459)
New Mexico (66-80, .452)
Total: 1007-723 (.582)
Total: 946-767 (.552) (w/o BYU & w/SMU)

SchizophrenicBatman
11-27-2010, 01:34 AM
E Gordon Gee is a prophet

Dont ever doubt a man in a bow tie

Smooth Criminal
11-27-2010, 07:26 AM
So now that OSU will be RANKED HIGHER then Boise they are undoubtedly a better team right?

Sniper
11-27-2010, 08:26 AM
So now that OSU will be RANKED HIGHER then Boise they are undoubtedly a better team right?

Well, they won't be ranked higher once Denard Biakabutukas the Buckeyes. :D

Smooth Criminal
11-27-2010, 08:31 AM
I laughed at that possibility all week but I keep getting visions on him running though our defense missing tackles.

I'm expecting a win but he's a damn scary QB to face. Good thing their defense is atrocious.

Shane P. Hallam
11-27-2010, 08:32 AM
Honestly, Gee is smart. He isn't a good President as a whole (as I have experienced first and second hand,) but he knows who writes his checks. This has rallied the students of tOSU around him, once again, and it keeps the Buckeyes in a National Spotlight when they had fallen out of it.

RealityCheck
11-27-2010, 08:38 AM
We'll see what Gee has to say after TCU gets cowardly kicked out of the NC and owns OSU's sorry ass in the Rose Bowl.

JoeJoeBrown
11-27-2010, 08:47 AM
We'll see what Gee has to say after TCU gets cowardly kicked out of the NC and owns OSU's sorry ass in the Rose Bowl.

You are so strange. So bitter against the buckeyes. I like it.

Outside of a playoff I would like to see the big easts aq pulled and the slot opened up to all non-aq teams. Then the other slots doled out the regular way

keylime_5
11-27-2010, 08:47 AM
gotta say Gee's comments ended up being quite timely.

Shane P. Hallam
11-27-2010, 08:51 AM
We'll see what Gee has to say after TCU gets cowardly kicked out of the NC and owns OSU's sorry ass in the Rose Bowl.

Unless Wisconsin loses to Northwestern, OSU isn't playing TCU in the Rose Bowl.

RealityCheck
11-27-2010, 08:55 AM
Unless Wisconsin loses to Northwestern, OSU isn't playing TCU in the Rose Bowl.
Even better. OSU won't even make it to a BCS bowl then.

Shane P. Hallam
11-27-2010, 08:56 AM
Even better. OSU won't even make it to a BCS bowl then.

Nope, if OSU beats Michigan, they go to the Sugar Bowl against LSU/Arkansas.

RealityCheck
11-27-2010, 08:58 AM
Nope, if OSU beats Michigan, they go to the Sugar Bowl against LSU/Arkansas.
Damn, Shane, that's why I like you.

Smooth Criminal
11-27-2010, 09:21 AM
You are really uninformed about the BCS situation.

TCU isn't being held out of a national title, two better teams in real conferences are ahead of them.

OSU won't play in the Rose bowl unless Wisconsin loses. Very unlikely.

OSU will play in a BCS unless they lose, highly unlikely.

So just keep trying to hate on OSU without knowing what you're talking about.

RealityCheck
11-27-2010, 09:49 AM
two better teams in real conferences are ahead of them.
.
Prove Auburn and Oregon are better than TCU.

Also, no one is ahead of anyone. All 3 teams are undefeated.

Smooth Criminal
11-27-2010, 10:00 AM
Prove Auburn and Oregon are better than TCU.

Also, no one is ahead of anyone. All 3 teams are undefeated.

Two teams are certainly ahead of the 3rd. Two will play for the national championship and one won't.

Auburn and Oregon have accomplished more then TCU this season. They are undefeated in much tougher conferences. That's the beauty of TCUs easy schedule. They get a free road to being undefeated, but as long as 2 other teams with tougher roads are undefeated they're going to be on the outside looking in.

Not like getting to go to the Rose Bowl is a bad thing.

RealityCheck
11-27-2010, 10:06 AM
Having a tougher schedule doesn't mean you're a better team.

Smooth Criminal
11-27-2010, 10:14 AM
Having a tougher schedule means you accomplished more and are more deserving of a bid to the national championship.

We can say TCU is great, but they havnt come close to proving as much on the field as Auburn and Oregon have.

GB12
11-27-2010, 12:05 PM
Damn, Shane, that's why I like you.

You like him because you're talking out of your ass and have no idea how any of this works?

diabsoule
11-27-2010, 11:20 PM
Looks like we're going to see an Arkansas/Ohio State Sugar Bowl. Terrell Pryor vs. Ryan Mallet. Should be interesting.

Shane P. Hallam
11-27-2010, 11:51 PM
As long as Auburn beats SCar. If they don't, Ohio State/South Carolina, enjoy!

Smooth Criminal
11-28-2010, 07:04 AM
Looks like we're going to see an Arkansas/Ohio State Sugar Bowl. Terrell Pryor vs. Ryan Mallet. Should be interesting.

Potential for some ugly ass interceptions in that game.

BuckeyeDan17
11-28-2010, 10:04 AM
Jesus, there might be a record for turnovers that game. Just tell TP: Only throw if you see a WR completely by himself... No defenders within 40 yards...

I will believe in miracles if Pryor doesn't throw 2 INT's that game.

yodabear
11-28-2010, 01:08 PM
Interesting thing here, in the Yodapoop stadings and a 8 game playoff, the third seed TCU Horned Frogs would go up against the sixth seed Ohio State Buckeyes. And TCU would be able to shut this guy up.

wonderbredd24
11-28-2010, 01:12 PM
Gordon Gee is at a BCS school in a conference believed to be run by the most Pro-BCS Conference President in Jim Delaney.

While this whole thing is idiotic, this is about as surprising as having the Yankees come out against a salary cap.

JoeJoeBrown
11-29-2010, 11:32 AM
BTW, lost in the BSU/TCU vs OSU comments, is the fact that TCU backed out of a game last season vs OSU.

TCU = Wimps (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/2009/11/what-if-tcu-had-played-ohio-state-to-open-the-season.html)

Shane P. Hallam
11-29-2010, 12:00 PM
BTW, lost in the BSU/TCU vs OSU comments, is the fact that TCU backed out of a game last season vs OSU.

TCU = Wimps (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/2009/11/what-if-tcu-had-played-ohio-state-to-open-the-season.html)

Errrr, Ohio State wouldn't do a home and home while LSU would for 2012-2013. I understand TCU then just went to Clemson for one year only, but I can understand the hesitation with the money involved bringing tOSU in.

JoeJoeBrown
11-29-2010, 12:09 PM
Errrr, Ohio State wouldn't do a home and home while LSU would for 2012-2013. I understand TCU then just went to Clemson for one year only, but I can understand the hesitation with the money involved bringing tOSU in.

So what is your point? TCU backed out of an open date that OSU had to fill with Navy.

TCU pusses out against an elite team and then whines about not being able to play the big boys after their schedule is questioned.

TCU: Anytime, anywhere, except when we don't feel like it?

These teams have to come up with some sort of compensation model if they want a home and home with the big teams that bring in millions of dollars per home game.

Shane P. Hallam
11-29-2010, 12:22 PM
So what is your point? TCU backed out of an open date that OSU had to fill with Navy.

TCU pusses out against an elite team and then whines about not being able to play the big boys after their schedule is questioned.

TCU: Anytime, anywhere, except when we don't feel like it?

These teams have to come up with some sort of compensation model if they want a home and home with the big teams that bring in millions of dollars per home game.

Well, they are going to the Big East now. They obviously are high profile enough to not have to do some type of compensation model. I don't knock TCU for not taking games against huge schools without those schools giving them a home game back. It's not an issue anymore.

keylime_5
11-29-2010, 12:40 PM
am i the only one who thinks the MNT West with Boise in it isn't really any weaker than the Big East? :D

Shane P. Hallam
11-29-2010, 12:41 PM
am i the only one who thinks the MNT West with Boise in it isn't really any weaker than the Big East? :D

Yes, yes you are.

J-Mike88
11-29-2010, 12:49 PM
Great quote: "They don't play the games on paper, son."

Let's just skip the NFL playoffs, and let's put the highest rated team from each conference into the Super Bowl, and base the rankings off Don Banks, Chris Mortenson, Peter King, and Apple's rankings.

No playoffs in college football (somehow there is in lower classes) is one of the most corrupt, wrong, backwards-assed rules in America today.

JoeJoeBrown
11-29-2010, 12:49 PM
Well, they are going to the Big East now. They obviously are high profile enough to not have to do some type of compensation model. I don't knock TCU for not taking games against huge schools without those schools giving them a home game back. It's not an issue anymore.

As of 2009 it wasn't obvious. That's certain. Also, it's always about the money.

I'm glad that TCU is joining the Least. Win/Win IMO.

keylime_5
11-29-2010, 03:02 PM
Yes, yes you are.

Well I guess Utah is leaving aren't they? BYU as well if I'm not mistaken. Still it's a lot closer than one would think between a non-AQ and an AQ conference.

wogitalia
11-29-2010, 07:09 PM
Wow Boise have got to be annoyed at this... move conference only to have the core of that conference then leave.

Good chance that next year the Mountain West is stronger than the Big East but not once it loses TCU...

Big East has a lot more depth though, it is a big pile of steaming mediocre teams, none with realistic title ambitions and none that are so truly horrible that you question their existence.

diabsoule
11-29-2010, 07:19 PM
Wow Boise have got to be annoyed at this... move conference only to have the core of that conference then leave.

Good chance that next year the Mountain West is stronger than the Big East but not once it loses TCU...

Big East has a lot more depth though, it is a big pile of steaming mediocre teams, none with realistic title ambitions and none that are so truly horrible that you question their existence.

While I have been known as a Mountain West supporter on this board I have to say that even with the addition of Boise St., Fresno St., and Nevada to the MWC when TCU was still a part of it would NOT have been a better conference than the Big East. While, for the most part, the Big East has eight mediocre teams in it with the cream of the crop being West Virginia the MWC would have had two or three top teams (Boise St., TCU, maybe Nevada) but then a bunch of horrible teams (New Mexico, Wyoming, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State) that would get hosed by any Big East school.

The Big East just plays a tougher strength of schedule on average than any Mountain West school and while it was fun rooting for the underdog MWC to get a BCS bid when Utah, BYU, and TCU were in it, those three schools realized that the old saying "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" is true and that is exactly what they have done. Blame Craig Thompson, Mountain West commissioner, for not inviting Boise State, Nevada, and Fresno State sooner. If he would have invited those schools 2-3 years ago then the MWC would have had a title game and more than likely a BCS bid.

andyjo672
11-30-2010, 07:30 PM
So you're allowed to make claims without any proof but the guy you shot down above (regarding Miami beating Nevada) is not? You must go to BSU, your education is starting to show.

Haha, SickWitIt neg repped me on this post and simply said "Get a clue." I guess we know his intellectual capacity is limitless!

brat316
11-30-2010, 07:45 PM
If only MWC was compromised of

Utah
BYU
TCU
Boise
Nevada
Fresno

then maybe.

JoeJoeBrown
12-01-2010, 11:36 AM
Hitler's take on BSU losing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h40dvs8QGTg)