PDA

View Full Version : POLL: Alex Smith or Mike Singletary


dan77733
12-22-2010, 01:20 AM
While the majority of us probably want both of them to be gone, if you had to choose one or the other to come back in 2011, which one would you pick?

My vote goes to Alex Smith.

abaddon41_80
12-22-2010, 10:00 AM
I don't see how anyone could possibly pick Mike Singletary if you have to pick one of them to come back. To be honest, I can actually see Alex coming back if he finishes out the season well. The new coach will want his own young QB but keeping around Alex as a backup would be smart.

Goon61
12-22-2010, 05:06 PM
I hate Alex Smith. He is a good guy and he is smart but he does not have the instincts or bravado(sp?) to be a QB. I would take anyone over him

Brent
12-22-2010, 05:07 PM
I thought I was supposed to vote on who I did not want to come back. I would rather keep Alex than Singletary.

LizardState
12-22-2010, 05:37 PM
I thought I was supposed to vote on who I did not want to come back. I would rather keep Alex than Singletary.
Edit: I misunderstood as well, dump the HC & keep Alex.

Voted Singletary b/c his dumb decisions regarding personnel trump Alex Smith's dumb decisions on the field.

And Singletary does more damage -- difficult to believe if you watched Alex this yr but it's true. A fraud HC like that can sink an entire franchise.

ninerfan
12-22-2010, 09:15 PM
no brainer - Alex over Sing everyday of the week

dan77733
12-23-2010, 12:03 AM
Sorry Brent/Lizard.

You vote for the person that you would rather have in 2011. I should have worded it better. Sorry.

49erNation85
12-23-2010, 12:14 AM
Can't we just have them both gone ?

dan77733
12-23-2010, 12:27 AM
Can't we just have them both gone ?

Yeah but since Ness likes to blame Alex and no one else, I wanted to make a poll to where you MUST keep one or the other for 2011. I mainly wanted to see everyone's opinion on who they would rather keep if they had to choose between the two.

Verloren
12-25-2010, 06:36 PM
Rather keep Alex over Singletary. At least Alex won't make a bonehead mistake like running the ball 3x up the gut.

Ness
12-25-2010, 07:13 PM
Yeah but since Ness likes to blame Alex and no one else, I wanted to make a poll to where you MUST keep one or the other for 2011. I mainly wanted to see everyone's opinion on who they would rather keep if they had to choose between the two.

You seriously made a poll because of what I said in another thread. Wow. I just hope you aren't losing sleep from what we are talking about.

Yeah this isn't a childish tactic at all. O.o

The fact that what we were discussed prompted you to make a poll, based on a misconstrued understanding of what were were talking about no less, is quite pathetic in my opinion.

By the way I never didn't blame Singletary for what he's done. You failed to comprehend what I was talking about and at this point you're just reiterating statements that I never made in this first place.

Borat
12-25-2010, 09:24 PM
So basically this is like choosing between having cancer or AIDS.

dan77733
12-25-2010, 10:50 PM
You seriously made a poll because of what I said in another thread. Wow. I just hope you aren't losing sleep from what we are talking about.

Yeah this isn't a childish tactic at all. O.o

The fact that what we were discussed prompted you to make a poll, based on a misconstrued understanding of what were were talking about no less, is quite pathetic in my opinion.

By the way I never didn't blame Singletary for what he's done. You failed to comprehend what I was talking about and at this point you're just reiterating statements that I never made in this first place.

Because of what you said in regards to Alex/Troy/Sing gave me the idea for the poll and since I never posted one before, I figured what the hell, mine as well.

And no, im not losing any sleep over any of this. LOL. And while this topic may be childish, its not any more childish than arguing with you back and forth every other day.

In regards to Alex, you never blame Sing. You basically just bash Alex over and over again like he's the only one to blame. My comprehension of what you've said is actually quite clear -

-You prefer Troy over Alex
-You think Troy gives the team a better chance to win the last two games even though you've never stated why you think that
-You blame Alex whenever he plays poor but never anyone else like he's the only one at fault
-You use Troy not being at 49ers TC or pre-S. as to why he sucks and took so long to get used to the playbook when instead, you should be blaming Sing for signing Troy over keeping Davis on the active roster
-You somehow think Troy will be a 49er next year over Alex. No damn way. Either Alex will return or both will be gone

The above sums up what you've been saying for the last few weeks so unless im wrong (and correct me if I am), I've comprehended what you've said perfectly.

Ness
12-25-2010, 11:55 PM
Because of what you said in regards to Alex/Troy/Sing gave me the idea for the poll and since I never posted one before, I figured what the hell, mine as well.

And no, im not losing any sleep over any of this. LOL. And while this topic may be childish, its not any more childish than arguing with you back and forth every other day.

In regards to Alex, you never blame Sing. You basically just bash Alex over and over again like he's the only one to blame. My comprehension of what you've said is actually quite clear -

-You prefer Troy over Alex
-You think Troy gives the team a better chance to win the last two games even though you've never stated why you think that
-You blame Alex whenever he plays poor but never anyone else like he's the only one at fault
-You use Troy not being at 49ers TC or pre-S. as to why he sucks and took so long to get used to the playbook when instead, you should be blaming Sing for signing Troy over keeping Davis on the active roster
-You somehow think Troy will be a 49er next year over Alex. No damn way. Either Alex will return or both will be gone

The above sums up what you've been saying for the last few weeks so unless im wrong (and correct me if I am), I've comprehended what you've said perfectly.

Fact of the matter is I said something that got under your skin and you decided to make a poll about it on a message board as some self-gratifying retaliation. In my book that is definitely more childish than having a civil discussion about football everyday.

In any case, you didn't comprehend what I was mentioning earlier in full. I have blamed Mike Singletary for the team's failure. Especially a lot earlier in the season. You can go back and look if you wish. Why you've ignored this or accused me of not blaming Mike and only Alex for the team's failures I don't know.

As for Troy Smith, I do prefer him over Alex. I think he's a better quarterback at this point in time. Him not being here in training camp and not having that many snaps is a disadvantage. Those are facts. Alex Smith has not had the same disadvantage. Yet he's played worse in my opinion. I actually never liked the signing of Troy in the first play and did criticize Singletary earlier in the year for not keeping Nate Davis. This is the second or third time I've told you that. Why you continue to ignore it is on you.

Recently, I've focused on Alex Smith for my criticism on the team as far as the players are concerned. But he isn't the only one I've complained about.

And as for Troy being here next season, if he plays well the next couple of games I could see him coming back as a backup. I think Alex Smith's days are over and he isn't coming back. Especially after not doing anything for the last six seasons and also due to most likely not finishing out this season. It just isn't going to look good for the franchise. Not everyone shares your opinion that Alex has played better compared to Troy. So that angle is not 100% sure. It's fairly split if you look at other boards and people's opinions. You should at least consider the possibility that Alex leaves and Troy stays. Don't be surprised if it happens. Me, I don't care. Both aren't going to be the leaders of this franchise. So they can both jet. But if I wanted a backup, I'm probably taking Troy between the two if I had to choose.

Hopefully that clears things up for you.

dan77733
12-26-2010, 01:27 AM
Fact of the matter is I said something that got under your skin and you decided to make a poll about it on a message board as some self-gratifying retaliation. In my book that is definitely more childish than having a civil discussion about football everyday.

In any case, you didn't comprehend what I was mentioning earlier in full. I have blamed Mike Singletary for the team's failure. Especially a lot earlier in the season. You can go back and look if you wish. Why you've ignored this or accused me of not blaming Mike and only Alex for the team's failures I don't know.

As for Troy Smith, I do prefer him over Alex. I think he's a better quarterback at this point in time. Him not being here in training camp and not having that many snaps is a disadvantage. Those are facts. Alex Smith has not had the same disadvantage. Yet he's played worse in my opinion. I actually never liked the signing of Troy in the first play and did criticize Singletary earlier in the year for not keeping Nate Davis. This is the second or third time I've told you that. Why you continue to ignore it is on you.

Recently, I've focused on Alex Smith for my criticism on the team as far as the players are concerned. But he isn't the only one I've complained about.

And as for Troy being here next season, if he plays well the next couple of games I could see him coming back as a backup. I think Alex Smith's days are over and he isn't coming back. Especially after not doing anything for the last six seasons and also due to most likely not finishing out this season. It just isn't going to look good for the franchise. Not everyone shares your opinion that Alex has played better compared to Troy. So that angle is not 100% sure. It's fairly split if you look at other boards and people's opinions. You should at least consider the possibility that Alex leaves and Troy stays. Don't be surprised if it happens. Me, I don't care. Both aren't going to be the leaders of this franchise. So they can both jet. But if I wanted a backup, I'm probably taking Troy between the two if I had to choose.

Hopefully that clears things up for you.

People I work with get under my skin. Someone who I dont know and have never met and never will could never get under my skin. While you blamed Singletary earlier in the season, you havent lately, just Alex which is the real reason why I made this poll. I wanted to see who everyone would keep if they had to pick one or the other. But hey, if you want to think that I posted this poll as some sort of revenge or whatever, go ahead as you're free to think that but just because you think it doesnt make it true.

You blamed Sing earlier in the season but why not lately? He's still to blame just as much as anyone else this season but like you said, you blamed him earlier this season. Why is that? If you're going to blame Alex, you should have Sing's name right next to his.

You seem to ignore responding as to why you think Troy is better than Alex. Still havent posted why you think Troy is better. Troy not being at TC or pre-season has nothing to do with him or Alex. He was a Raven. How could he possibly be here for TC and PS? And if that's such a disadvantage like you claim it to be, shouldnt a head coach like Sing know that and take that under consideration before signing him to replace Davis? And how has Alex not been at a disadvantage here in SF? Since he was drafted, he's been at a disadvantage. Nolan, Singletary and whoever else instilled in him to be cautious when playing which is why he makes mistakes he probably wouldnt if he didnt have that drilled into his mindset for the last seven years. He's had a different OC in every season including this year. He's had Nolan screw him over. He's had Sing screw him over. Even when Alex is starting, he gets screwed time and time again because of Sing's crappy mentality that running the ball 40 times a game is going to produce wins even though it obviously hasnt worked that way but yet, Sing still does the same thing. You cant blame Alex or crap like that when his damn head coach is basically telling him and the OC what plays to run and then he (Sing) bitches about it when they dont work. While you may have bashed Sing for signing Troy in favor of Davis, you sure as hell dont sound like it right now and considering the fact that Troy has done less and worse than Alex, I dont see how anyone could have liked or now like that signing. And considering the fact that Sing decided to sign Troy and demote Davis despite the fact that Troy was at the Ravens TC and PS, Sing still signed him which should tell everyone that he sucks as a head coach and obviously doesnt have a clue which in-turn will only hurt Alex, Troy or whoever the damn QB happens to be.

I just dont understand why you've focused on Alex when it comes to bashing players. He cant control what the other 52 players do or dont do. If a WR doesnt run their correct route, how can that be on Alex? I personally blame Alex 50% with the other 50% on Sing. The only difference is that if Alex actually had good stable coaching around him, you could actually be good. Sing could have a Pro Bowl squad and he would still find a way to screw it up.

Alex and Troy being here in 2011 is 50/50 for each but I think if there's a new head coach, that head coach will lean towards Alex especially if its a veteran head coach who's offensive minded and knows what he's doing. I personally would keep Alex over Troy and Carr but Davis over all three if it came down to that. I dont see how keeping Alex in 2011 hurts the franchise or the team or the players because as you've seen this season and in the past when Alex wasnt even playing (J.T. O'Sullivan ring a bell?), he's far from being our biggest negative or problem. That would go to ownership followed by management followed by the coaching staff. But whatever, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. As long as Sing is gone and we get Gruden, I'll be a happy camper.

And yeah, crystal clear.

Ness
12-26-2010, 02:48 AM
People I work with get under my skin. Someone who I dont know and have never met and never will could never get under my skin. While you blamed Singletary earlier in the season, you havent lately, just Alex which is the real reason why I made this poll. I wanted to see who everyone would keep if they had to pick one or the other. But hey, if you want to think that I posted this poll as some sort of revenge or whatever, go ahead as you're free to think that but just because you think it doesnt make it true.

You blamed Sing earlier in the season but why not lately? He's still to blame just as much as anyone else this season but like you said, you blamed him earlier this season. Why is that? If you're going to blame Alex, you should have Sing's name right next to his.

You seem to ignore responding as to why you think Troy is better than Alex. Still havent posted why you think Troy is better. Troy not being at TC or pre-season has nothing to do with him or Alex. He was a Raven. How could he possibly be here for TC and PS? And if that's such a disadvantage like you claim it to be, shouldnt a head coach like Sing know that and take that under consideration before signing him to replace Davis? And how has Alex not been at a disadvantage here in SF? Since he was drafted, he's been at a disadvantage. Nolan, Singletary and whoever else instilled in him to be cautious when playing which is why he makes mistakes he probably wouldnt if he didnt have that drilled into his mindset for the last seven years. He's had a different OC in every season including this year. He's had Nolan screw him over. He's had Sing screw him over. Even when Alex is starting, he gets screwed time and time again because of Sing's crappy mentality that running the ball 40 times a game is going to produce wins even though it obviously hasnt worked that way but yet, Sing still does the same thing. You cant blame Alex or crap like that when his damn head coach is basically telling him and the OC what plays to run and then he (Sing) bitches about it when they dont work. While you may have bashed Sing for signing Troy in favor of Davis, you sure as hell dont sound like it right now and considering the fact that Troy has done less and worse than Alex, I dont see how anyone could have liked or now like that signing. And considering the fact that Sing decided to sign Troy and demote Davis despite the fact that Troy was at the Ravens TC and PS, Sing still signed him which should tell everyone that he sucks as a head coach and obviously doesnt have a clue which in-turn will only hurt Alex, Troy or whoever the damn QB happens to be.

I just dont understand why you've focused on Alex when it comes to bashing players. He cant control what the other 52 players do or dont do. If a WR doesnt run their correct route, how can that be on Alex? I personally blame Alex 50% with the other 50% on Sing. The only difference is that if Alex actually had good stable coaching around him, you could actually be good. Sing could have a Pro Bowl squad and he would still find a way to screw it up.

Alex and Troy being here in 2011 is 50/50 for each but I think if there's a new head coach, that head coach will lean towards Alex especially if its a veteran head coach who's offensive minded and knows what he's doing. I personally would keep Alex over Troy and Carr but Davis over all three if it came down to that. I dont see how keeping Alex in 2011 hurts the franchise or the team or the players because as you've seen this season and in the past when Alex wasnt even playing (J.T. O'Sullivan ring a bell?), he's far from being our biggest negative or problem. That would go to ownership followed by management followed by the coaching staff. But whatever, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. As long as Sing is gone and we get Gruden, I'll be a happy camper.

And yeah, crystal clear.

And just because you deny it doesn't make it true either. The fact that this poll exists because of a discussion we had involving me and you just makes it seem you're trying to push your point further because I didn't agree with it and/or didn't say what you wanted to hear.

Actually I have posted why I believe Troy is better, even though it seems obvious. The winning record for one. He's passed the ball just as effectively without turning it over as much (his interception percentage is a lot lower). Balls don't bounce off the hands of receivers magically into the hands of the defender, something that was a trademark of Alex. Troy gets sacked a bit more, I'll give you that. This guy has accomplished these feats without even being here in the summer for preseason and training camp. Within his first few starts he passed for over 300 yards, something that took how many seasons to do? All in all it doesn't matter because I believe you'll refute this evidence anyways and/or just plain ignore it. Seems like your mind is already made up. Whether you like it or not, not being here to learn the system and have chemistry with the players matters. It's a reality. This isn't Madden where you can just plug in whoever you please.

I don't know why Singletary cut Davis in the first place and signed Smith. Regardless, that's irrelevant to him being at a disadvantage when coming here compared to Smith who was here all summer. I never said Alex wasn't at a disadvantage with the coaching. But as far as being here and knowing the system and having a lot more reps with the players, that is an advantage. How in the world would it not be? And you babble all you want about the fragile psyche of Alex Smith as if this can be evidence you can actually present in a court, but at the end of the day it's just one of the many pathetic excuses used for the last six seasons. The playcalling however flawed it may be doesn't excuse Alex for not being able to throw the ball effectively...as in never pump faking, throwing the ball late resulting in defenders to get a jump on it, being inaccurate resulting in receivers having balls tipped, etc.

I already told you I don't like Singletary as the head coach and that I believe his decisions have been terrible. Just because I haven't said anything recently doesn't mean I've changed my tune. Stop making assumptions without a basis for a conclusion. Both Smith and Singletary are terrible at what they do in their own regard and need to be axed from the team for various reasons...most of which would be serious baggage that screws the reputation of the organization.

As for Alex being able to be a Pro Bowl quarterback if he had a Pro Bowl squad, that is only speculative and not factual. You could say that about a lot of quarterbacks that busted in the NFL. Other quarterbacks have come in with inadequate coaching, a bad cast, and just an overall bad team, but still made it work. They didn't need excuses. Me talking about how terrible the other members of the team are isn't going to change my stance on Alex at all. I could do it if it'll make you feel better?

Keeping Alex would be awful for the franchise and humiliating. That would be like the Chargers keeping Ryan Leaf until 2004...even as just a backup. It's embarrassing. It's basically sending a message everyone out there that the franchise still has confidence in it's busted quarterback...instead of doing the logical thing and admitting a mistake was made and move forward.

abaddon41_80
12-26-2010, 09:34 AM
Keeping Alex would be awful for the franchise and humiliating. That would be like the Chargers keeping Ryan Leaf until 2004...even as just a backup. It's embarrassing. It's basically sending a message everyone out there that the franchise still has confidence in it's busted quarterback...instead of doing the logical thing and admitting a mistake was made and move forward.

It would be nothing like that. Leaf was a bottom 3 QB in addition to being, by all accounts, an a-hole and a locker room cancer. Alex is an average QB who is a hard worker and who no one in the locker room has ever had any type of problems with. If the new coach makes it clear that Alex is going to be the backup and there will be no competition or that the guy he drafts is eventually going to take over then there won't be a problem. Alex could even perform well waiting for the new guy to take over and we could have a Drew Brees/Philip Rivers scenario.

CJSchneider
12-26-2010, 10:47 AM
So basically this is like choosing between having cancer or AIDS.

That's testicular cancer by the way.

Ness
12-26-2010, 12:28 PM
It would be nothing like that. Leaf was a bottom 3 QB in addition to being, by all accounts, an a-hole and a locker room cancer. Alex is an average QB who is a hard worker and who no one in the locker room has ever had any type of problems with. If the new coach makes it clear that Alex is going to be the backup and there will be no competition or that the guy he drafts is eventually going to take over then there won't be a problem. Alex could even perform well waiting for the new guy to take over and we could have a Drew Brees/Philip Rivers scenario.

The fact that you're still dreaming that Alex could be good and your mind won't be changed is sad and makes this discussion pointless. When Alex starts performing like Brees or Rivers let me know. Alex will never be a good quarterback. I'm willing to bet you 100 dollars that within the next five years he won't do anything significant anywhere.

abaddon41_80
12-26-2010, 12:31 PM
The fact that you're still dreaming that Alex could be good and your mind won't be changed is sad and makes this discussion pointless. When Alex starts performing like Brees or Rivers let me know.

I don't think he will start performing like Brees or Rivers, I never said I did. To act like it is impossible is stupid, though, because he has performed well in short bursts before. If a good coach can just find some way to harness it you never know...

It is irrelevant whether he can be good or not, though, because he is already average while Troy sucks. A new coach would rather have an average QB than a crappy one. Alex's past will have no effect on whether or not he stays

Ness
12-26-2010, 12:42 PM
I don't think he will start performing like Brees or Rivers, I never said I did. To act like it is impossible is stupid, though, because he has performed well in short bursts before. If a good coach can just find some way to harness it you never know...

It is irrelevant whether he can be good or not, though, because he is already average while Troy sucks. A new coach would rather have an average QB than a crappy one. Alex's past will have no effect on whether or not he stays

Then why even bring up that scenario in the discussion? It's pointless. Why would acting like it's impossible for Alex to perform like Brees or Rivers stupid? Just because you don't want to believe it?

Both Troy and Alex suck. Let's get that straight. Alex is not average. But having this discussion is pointless like I said because you still believe Alex will be good. His past will have an effect on whether he stays or not. My $100 offer still stands.

abaddon41_80
12-26-2010, 12:45 PM
I don't still believe Alex can be good consistently but I believe he can be average with times when he plays great. He has proven that. And he is average.

dan77733
12-26-2010, 01:01 PM
And just because you deny it doesn't make it true either. The fact that this poll exists because of a discussion we had involving me and you just makes it seem you're trying to push your point further because I didn't agree with it and/or didn't say what you wanted to hear.

Actually I have posted why I believe Troy is better, even though it seems obvious. The winning record for one. He's passed the ball just as effectively without turning it over as much (his interception percentage is a lot lower). Balls don't bounce off the hands of receivers magically into the hands of the defender, something that was a trademark of Alex. Troy gets sacked a bit more, I'll give you that. This guy has accomplished these feats without even being here in the summer for preseason and training camp. Within his first few starts he passed for over 300 yards, something that took how many seasons to do? All in all it doesn't matter because I believe you'll refute this evidence anyways and/or just plain ignore it. Seems like your mind is already made up. Whether you like it or not, not being here to learn the system and have chemistry with the players matters. It's a reality. This isn't Madden where you can just plug in whoever you please.

I don't know why Singletary cut Davis in the first place and signed Smith. Regardless, that's irrelevant to him being at a disadvantage when coming here compared to Smith who was here all summer. I never said Alex wasn't at a disadvantage with the coaching. But as far as being here and knowing the system and having a lot more reps with the players, that is an advantage. How in the world would it not be? And you babble all you want about the fragile psyche of Alex Smith as if this can be evidence you can actually present in a court, but at the end of the day it's just one of the many pathetic excuses used for the last six seasons. The playcalling however flawed it may be doesn't excuse Alex for not being able to throw the ball effectively...as in never pump faking, throwing the ball late resulting in defenders to get a jump on it, being inaccurate resulting in receivers having balls tipped, etc.

I already told you I don't like Singletary as the head coach and that I believe his decisions have been terrible. Just because I haven't said anything recently doesn't mean I've changed my tune. Stop making assumptions without a basis for a conclusion. Both Smith and Singletary are terrible at what they do in their own regard and need to be axed from the team for various reasons...most of which would be serious baggage that screws the reputation of the organization.

As for Alex being able to be a Pro Bowl quarterback if he had a Pro Bowl squad, that is only speculative and not factual. You could say that about a lot of quarterbacks that busted in the NFL. Other quarterbacks have come in with inadequate coaching, a bad cast, and just an overall bad team, but still made it work. They didn't need excuses. Me talking about how terrible the other members of the team are isn't going to change my stance on Alex at all. I could do it if it'll make you feel better?

Keeping Alex would be awful for the franchise and humiliating. That would be like the Chargers keeping Ryan Leaf until 2004...even as just a backup. It's embarrassing. It's basically sending a message everyone out there that the franchise still has confidence in it's busted quarterback...instead of doing the logical thing and admitting a mistake was made and move forward.

If that was the case, this poll would have been Alex or Troy. Our debate/argument gave me the idea for the poll to see who fans would pick if they HAD to keep one or the other.

Winning record??? WTF??? He's 3-2. Big deal. His record as a starter career wise is 4-3. You're actually using a one game lead (so to speak) as a reason why you prefer him is just insane. Alex's TD percentage is 4% while his INT percentage is at 3.4%. Troy is at 3.2% to 2.4%. Of course, if you add the .8% that Alex is ahead in TD percentage, the difference becomes only .2%. Big deal. You also fail to realize that Troy has only started in 5 games and has 126 attempts compared to Alex who has started 9 games and has 298 attempts. Obviously, if the starts and attempts were the opposite, we would be having the same conversation but in the opposite direction. I'll give Troy credit and props for the 356 yard game. As for the ball bouncing off the hands of WR's and becoming INT's isnt always on the QB. Yeah, he'll get the blame but its not always on the QB. I seriously doubt all 10 INT's are on Alex. My mind is already set just like yours is so it evens out in the end. And stop saying Madden, I dont play that piece of crap of a game.

At least we argree in regards to Singletary.

The Pro Bowl squad comment I made was in regards to Sing. Sing could have a Pro Bowl team and still find a way to screw it up. I never said anything about Alex being a Pro Bowler if he had a Pro Bowl squad. I do think that Alex would be better if he had better coaching though.

Considering the mistakes that this franchise has made since 2002, I seriously doubt that keeping Alex in 2011 would be horrible and humiliating compared to the past. But whatever, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

dan77733
12-26-2010, 01:04 PM
I'm willing to bet you 100 dollars that within the next five years he won't do anything significant anywhere.

Just want to clarify - what exactly do you see as significant in regards to Alex?

Ness
12-26-2010, 01:11 PM
I don't still believe Alex can be good consistently but I believe he can be average with times when he plays great. He has proven that. And he is average.

Well him not being good is the important part. And if he's not good consistently, then he's not good at all. If you want to believe he's "average", that's fine. I just think he's downright terrible.

abaddon41_80
12-26-2010, 01:24 PM
Well him not being good is the important part. And if he's not good consistently, then he's not good at all. If you want to believe he's "average", that's fine. I just think he's downright terrible.

He isn't. Look at what he has done the past two years

Ness
12-26-2010, 01:24 PM
If that was the case, this poll would have been Alex or Troy. Our debate/argument gave me the idea for the poll to see who fans would pick if they HAD to keep one or the other.

Winning record??? WTF??? He's 3-2. Big deal. His record as a starter career wise is 4-3. You're actually using a one game lead (so to speak) as a reason why you prefer him is just insane. Alex's TD percentage is 4% while his INT percentage is at 3.4%. Troy is at 3.2% to 2.4%. Of course, if you add the .8% that Alex is ahead in TD percentage, the difference becomes only .2%. Big deal. You also fail to realize that Troy has only started in 5 games and has 126 attempts compared to Alex who has started 9 games and has 298 attempts. Obviously, if the starts and attempts were the opposite, we would be having the same conversation but in the opposite direction. I'll give Troy credit and props for the 356 yard game. As for the ball bouncing off the hands of WR's and becoming INT's isnt always on the QB. Yeah, he'll get the blame but its not always on the QB. I seriously doubt all 10 INT's are on Alex. My mind is already set just like yours is so it evens out in the end. And stop saying Madden, I dont play that piece of crap of a game.


At least we argree in regards to Singletary.

The Pro Bowl squad comment I made was in regards to Sing. Sing could have a Pro Bowl team and still find a way to screw it up. I never said anything about Alex being a Pro Bowler if he had a Pro Bowl squad. I do think that Alex would be better if he had better coaching though.

Considering the mistakes that this franchise has made since 2002, I seriously doubt that keeping Alex in 2011 would be horrible and humiliating compared to the past. But whatever, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Well we were talking about Alex, which you believe I blamed everything on...which sparked the creation for this thread.

Having a winning record is a big deal. If Alex Smith had a winning record you'd be all over it this season, so spare me. Alex has had more opportunities to win games this season with the same coaches, same teammates and with more experience under his belt and and his consistently failed to come through. Alex is responsible for the majority of his interceptions.

Anyone would be better with better coaching. But Alex being better, doesn't mean he'll throw the football differently and be more accurate magically. He might have a better understanding, but his intuition may not change. And that is what matters. Like Steve Young said about accuracy, you either have it or you don't. And Alex doesn't.

Ness
12-26-2010, 01:25 PM
He isn't. Look at what he has done the past two years

You're right, he hasn't done anything.

abaddon41_80
12-26-2010, 01:31 PM
You're right, he hasn't done anything.

~225 yards per game, 30 touchdowns, 22 interceptions, 60% completion, and a 80 QB rating is pretty average

Ness
12-26-2010, 01:55 PM
~225 yards per game, 30 touchdowns, 22 interceptions, 60% completion, and a 80 QB rating is pretty average

Sure if this was 1985. A quarterback that flirts around 80 in terms of rating isn't going to get it done for you consistently these days. You need to be pushing 90. To be good at least. If you're talking average, then sure if you want to state that, I could accept it. In any case, stats don't tell the entire story. Smith has played worse than his rating has indicated. Especially when a lot of his yards and touchdowns have come in garbage time.

abaddon41_80
12-26-2010, 02:00 PM
Sure if this was 1985. A quarterback that flirts around 80 in terms of rating isn't going to get it done for you consistently these days. You need to be pushing 90. To be good at least. If you're talking average, then sure if you want to state that, I could accept it. In any case, stats don't tell the entire story. Smith has played worse than his rating has indicated. Especially when a lot of his yards and touchdowns have come in garbage time.

That is what I said

Ness
12-26-2010, 02:26 PM
That is what I said

All in all it's subjective. So it depends on the person. Kyle Orton and David Garrard are pretty average to me, but I think they're a lot better than Alex Smith.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
04-12-2012, 04:07 AM
Sing could have a Pro Bowl squad and he would still find a way to screw it up.


A year later, we find out that Singletary DID in fact have a Pro Bowl squad, he just screwed it up.

phlysac
04-12-2012, 12:25 PM
And Kyle Orton, David Garrard and Troy Smith proved they were indeed better than Alex Smith.

Brent
04-12-2012, 03:42 PM
what's with the necro-threads?

phlysac
04-12-2012, 04:23 PM
"Look at me I was right" type stuff I can only assume. Or "Look at how wrong he was."

Gotta love it.

VAfy-ya
04-16-2012, 07:28 PM
So my question is did Ness ever pay up?

Ness
04-16-2012, 08:39 PM
So my question is did Ness ever pay up?

I don't see why I would owe any money. Alex playing on a team with one of the best defenses in the last twenty years doesn't really count as doing something significant in my opinion.

My question would be is Alex Smith playing like Rivers or Brees yet.

In any case, no one ever took me up on that bet. Shows how much faith they had.

Ness
04-16-2012, 08:42 PM
And Kyle Orton, David Garrard and Troy Smith proved they were indeed better than Alex Smith.

When this thread was made, they certainly were. Not Troy.

jojo
04-16-2012, 08:44 PM
I don't see why I would owe any money.

My question would be is Alex Smith playing like Rivers or Brees yet.

Nowhere even close to their level.

He's still well below Tony Romo & Carson Palmer in my book. He was successful & even confident last yr. in Harbaugh's offense playing Not to Lose.

It's called his Trent Dilfer in the Ravens SB run season imitation.

Ness
04-16-2012, 08:49 PM
Even a blind squirrel can find a nut. This could be the best Alex ever does in his career. The 49ers are going to be facing more difficult opponents this upcoming season. The three and outs against the Patriots, Packers, and Saints on the road isn't going to cut it. And the defense might not have a record setting year again. There will be more pressure on Alex to win this season.

VAfy-ya
04-16-2012, 10:18 PM
I don't see why I would owe any money. Alex playing on a team with one of the best defenses in the last twenty years doesn't really count as doing something significant in my opinion.

My question would be is Alex Smith playing like Rivers or Brees yet.

In any case, no one ever took me up on that bet. Shows how much faith they had.

Hed led his team to a come from behind victory, with two clutch drives(one after that vaunted defense which you spoke of, gave up the go-head score) in the final minutes of the Niners first playoff game in a decade. I'd say that's pretty significant and well within that 5 year window you spoke of. But you gave the answer I expected you to give. Its a moot point.....just fishing on a slow day.

phlysac
04-17-2012, 12:23 AM
Yeah, it's only been named The Catch III, and considered one of the single greatest NFL playoff games in NFL History, and easily one of the more memorable post-season moments in 49ers history.

Other than that... not significant.

Ness
04-17-2012, 12:59 AM
Hed led his team to a come from behind victory, with two clutch drives(one after that vaunted defense which you spoke of, gave up the go-head score) in the final minutes of the Niners first playoff game in a decade. I'd say that's pretty significant and well within that 5 year window you spoke of. But you gave the answer I expected you to give. Its a moot point.....just fishing on a slow day.

And you gave the response I expected to hear.

Five turnovers and the 49ers still had to drive down the field to win the game. It should have been a blowout.

Doesn't really matter. Like I told you earlier I wouldn't owe money because no one took me up on the bet at the time (even if I say it was significant) which was pretty indicative of the feeling on Mr. Smith.

Ness
04-17-2012, 01:02 AM
Yeah, it's only been named The Catch III, and considered one of the single greatest NFL playoff games in NFL History, and easily one of the more memorable post-season moments in 49ers history.

Other than that... not significant.

He made a good throw. Sure. I'd say that makes up for the terrible third down conversions all afternoon.

About time he rose to the occasion. Still, for having a defense that led the league in giving offense good field position, Alex's season wasn't very memorable. There is a reason why people kept slapping the game manager label on him all season long. And there is a reason why he only got a three year deal.

Ness
04-17-2012, 01:04 AM
Nowhere even close to their level.

He's still well below Tony Romo & Carson Palmer in my book. He was successful & even confident last yr. in Harbaugh's offense playing Not to Lose.

It's called his Trent Dilfer in the Ravens SB run season imitation.

Yeah pretty much.

VAfy-ya
04-17-2012, 07:41 AM
He made a good throw. Sure. I'd say that makes up for the terrible third down conversions all afternoon.

About time he rose to the occasion. Still, for having a defense that led the league in giving offense good field position, Alex's season wasn't very memorable. There is a reason why people kept slapping the game manager label on him all season long. And there is a reason why he only got a three year deal.

FYI, he a made a couple of great throws. And what does the defense have anything to do with what he did with the ball in his hands, with the game on the line? I guess all those Michael Jordan game-winning shots shouldn't be as mememorable because his team should have been good enough to blowout their opponents. Its called being clutch and as much as I rag on Smith, he was pretty clutch ALL of last season, not just that game. But that game holds more significance because it was the post-season and the opponent. The other QB was supposed to be hero, not Alex Smith.

jojo
04-17-2012, 09:44 AM
Did ya'll see what happened to their pass protection on Thanxgiving night in B-More vs. the other Harbaugh brother? Smith got punked all night long & their vaunted offense was never in the game.

Borat
04-17-2012, 12:26 PM
For as bad as that Baltimore game looked, the game was tied 6-6 going into the 4th quarter. And the 70-yard TD pass to Ginn earlier was negated by a penalty. Better OL play and they could have easily won that game.

ViperVisor
08-22-2012, 10:13 PM
Nothing else to do so I looked at the Saints game.

3rd downs

5 sacked
4 TD pass
4 inc
11 short
10 sacked
9 short
1 run
9 sacked
7 inc
13 short
10 incomplete so penalty declined
4 inc
6 short
8 TD run
4 TD pass

The problem wasn't lack of success on 3rd down but we had too many 3rd Downs. Running game was not consistent. Just 2 long runs by Smith and Gore. As you see the avg distance was 7 yards to get. That is the overall retrograde passing attack at that point in the season with the meh running day.

Giants game had the running game working but to start the 4th when we were nearing some more points Dixon was a yard short on 2 runs in a row. Didn't go for it on 4th down. Lee had a terrible punt and the game was lost soon after.

Ness
08-22-2012, 10:26 PM
Right, but when you have a good passing attack you don't face many third downs in the first place. Good offenses don't constantly face third and longs because they execute on first and second down to a good degree. The passing game needs to improve or else it's going to be the same old story. The good offenses, specifically quarterbacks, aren't analyzed to this degree because they make it look easy. No one talks about how many third downs Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers faces, because those usually aren't an issue for them. In other words, they convert their fair share of them.

ViperVisor
08-22-2012, 10:43 PM
Yeah.

And too be good you need some Dynamism. Unless you are a god like Peyton Manning.

That threat of a guy getting behind the coverage or right through it is huge.

With Manningham and Moss or maybe even Jenkins. We got a chance to have that now.