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View Full Version : Archuleta trade good for Bears?


IBleedNavyandOrange
03-21-2007, 08:25 AM
I know this is a no-brainer. A sixth-round pick for a proven veteran who hits like a ton of bricks (harder even than Todd Johnson)... definitely a good deal.

But does it really address the problem? Brown can't stay healthy for a full season--if he could, this trade would be worthless, because Archuleta would be a back-up (he can't play free safety, and Brown is twice the SS as he is a FS, even in Cover-2). So Archuleta is insurance for Brown. While that's important, if Brown stays healthy the full season, I see him as being better than Archuleta in most ways.

Free safety is where we need stability, and depth at both positions. This trade doesn't accomplish either. And Archuleta is not a cover guy... Brown (when healthy) was good in space, and that's Archuleta's weak poiint.

What the trade does accomplish is telling Mike Brown that the Bears don't expect him to be back, and will want to restructure his contract. Granted, the guy has had injury problems, but it sucks pretty hard to do this to him (unless, of course, there's inside info on his injury situation that makes the team less confident that he can produce this year).

Ultimately, the Archuleta acquisition signals Brown's departure. And that's why I'm a bit mixed about the deal. I think in the end it's good for the Bears, and dirt-cheap in terms of cost... and maybe I'm just too big a Mike Brown fan. But the defense is significantly, tangibly different when Brown's not in there. If Archuleta brings the same sort of leadership, that's another story.

bearsfan_51
03-21-2007, 12:54 PM
I do agree that this is a pretty clear sign that the FO doesn't have a lot of confidence in Brown ever being what he used to be.

That being said, maybe they know something we don't. It's quite possible he won't be ready for the start of the season.

I'm much less worried about players feelings that I am about making moves to improve the team, and any way you slice it our team got better yesterday.

I'm sure they won't cut Brown or ask him to restructure unless they are fairly certain that his injuries are such that he'll never be what he used to be, which is a distinct possibility.

bearsfan_51
03-21-2007, 12:56 PM
As for what Archuleta brings, at the very least our run defense won't turn to dogshit without Brown in there. I'm a big Todd Johnson fan but he's just not a longterm answer.

If Brown is cut, assuming it happens before the draft which I doubt it does, safety goes back to being my #2 draft need behind O-line.

pellepelle_10
03-21-2007, 02:54 PM
As for what Archuleta brings, at the very least our run defense won't turn to dogshit without Brown in there. I'm a big Todd Johnson fan but he's just not a longterm answer.

If Brown is cut, assuming it happens before the draft which I doubt it does, safety goes back to being my #2 draft need behind O-line.

I highly doubt Brown is cut. I think if he's moved to FS it would help all of us tremendously. Also the wear and tear on his body would decrease (hopefully). I wouldn't mind seeing Brown move back to FS to keep him healthy and pick off balls. He's pretty versitile as a Safety.

bearsfan_51
03-21-2007, 03:00 PM
Brown is much better suited for SS. He doesn't have the speed you want for a FS in a cover 2 defense.

SFbear
03-21-2007, 03:08 PM
I believe we have been after Archuleta since Lovie has been in Chicago and before Mike Brown was battling injuries so I would assume that we see something more in him then just an insurance policy for Brown. I see him playing the role of a poorman's John Lynch. I think we will try out Brown at FS before considering cutting him or asking him to restructure. He better get healthy quick.

Also how is Archuleta on special teams?

SFbear
03-21-2007, 03:12 PM
Brown is much better suited for SS. He doesn't have the speed you want for a FS in a cover 2 defense.

He also doesnt have the size you want for a SS in a cover 2 defense. He has always been the kind if player that has been able to play past his measurables with great instincts. At FS he will at least be more likely to stay healthy.

regoob2
03-21-2007, 10:26 PM
Brown doesnt have the speed to play anything in the cover 2 but with arch on the team it would be wise to put him at Brown at FS. Brown and Arch are our 2 best safties hands down

Smokey Joe
03-21-2007, 10:32 PM
Brown and Arch are our best SS... D.Manning stays at FS, IMO.

I doubt he goes from rookie starter to riding the bench after one season. Plus, he played pretty good last year as a first year rookie out of Abeline-Christian.

Brown will start at SS< and Arch will be a situational player and special teamer, and insurance policy if Brown goes down to injury, IMO.

bearsfan_51
03-22-2007, 01:32 AM
Larry Mayer, who is basically a puppet for the Bears organization, said that he would expect (or not be suprised I can't remember) if Brown is moved back to FS and started alongside Arch.

Hurricane Ditka
03-22-2007, 06:43 AM
Benching almost all of it's young talent is going to get this organization in trouble not too far down the road. Danieal Manning and Chris Harris should be given room to develop.

bearsfan_51
03-22-2007, 09:15 AM
Chris Harris is a career backup. He was started out of necessity, much like Kyle Orton.

regoob2
03-22-2007, 09:40 AM
D manning started out of necessity also, he had a good year for a guy who made the jump from 1-aa to the nfl but he didnt have that good of a year overall, mike and arch should be starting, manning should not have started last year

NYmoney
03-22-2007, 09:57 AM
D manning started out of necessity also, he had a good year for a guy who made the jump from 1-aa to the nfl but he didnt have that good of a year overall, mike and arch should be starting, manning should not have started last year

who should have started over manning last year? after brown went down, you had to start manning. he was the best option.

regoob2
03-22-2007, 10:05 AM
ya thats what i was sayin but hes not the best option anymore mike brown is at FS, Manning has no business at this point in his career being a starter, thats probably why we brought in a proven vet like arch so we can move brown to FS and also have manning watch and wait to take over after a year or in case of an injury

KBear
03-22-2007, 01:41 PM
Larry Mayer, who is basically a puppet for the Bears organization, said that he would expect (or not be suprised I can't remember) if Brown is moved back to FS and started alongside Arch.

What else would expect from the two players that easily have the two biggest cap numbers for a position other then have them both on the field at the same time.

KBear
03-22-2007, 01:47 PM
Benching almost all of it's young talent is going to get this organization in trouble not too far down the road. Danieal Manning and Chris Harris should be given room to develop.

True, but the Bears are also trying to win now when they still contending for the Super Bowl.

Besides with the oft injured Brown, and a coverage liabiltiy in Arch, Manning or Harris will still probably see plenty of playing time.

bearsfan_51
03-22-2007, 05:51 PM
What else would expect from the two players that easily have the two biggest cap numbers for a position other then have them both on the field at the same time.
Well cap numbers are somewhat out of whack considering the current market. Bobby Wade is making 3 million dollars a year to play the slot position while the guys on the outside will likely be making much less.

That being said, this from chicagobears.com

"A converted college linebacker, Archuleta is a hard-hitting safety who excels in run support close to the line of scrimmage. He is expected to start at strong safety with veteran Mike Brown possibly moving back to the free safety position."

The "posisbly" part is interesting, in that Arch is the starting safety regardless and Brown starting (or even remaining up in the air) seems less certain.

SFbear
03-22-2007, 06:22 PM
Well cap numbers are somewhat out of whack considering the current market. Bobby Wade is making 3 million dollars a year to play the slot position while the guys on the outside will likely be making much less.

That being said, this from chicagobears.com

"A converted college linebacker, Archuleta is a hard-hitting safety who excels in run support close to the line of scrimmage. He is expected to start at strong safety with veteran Mike Brown possibly moving back to the free safety position."

The "posisbly" part is interesting, in that Arch is the starting safety regardless and Brown starting (or even remaining up in the air) seems less certain.

I wouldn't pick apart the words unless it was directly from Lovie or Angelo's mouth even though this is what I pictured as a possibility when we got Arch. We're going to have to see if Brown can cover enough ground as a centerfielder because if this is true Arch is going to be playing at the line of scrimmage on all but obvious passing downs. Its going to put some pressure on Vasher and Tillman to play better man coverage. Arch would have a lot of responsibilities with dumpoffs and screens which would allow Urlacher to blitz more like Babich has declared.

I really hope Brown can make it at FS because otherwise he might be the odd man out. I think a speedy FS shouldnt be ruled out as a possiblility in the draft.

bearsfan_51
03-22-2007, 06:24 PM
I wouldn't pick apart the words unless it was directly from Lovie or Angelo's mouth even though this is what I pictured as a possibility when we got Arch. We're going to have to see if Brown can cover enough ground as a centerfielder because if this is true Arch is going to be playing at the line of scrimmage on all but obvious passing downs. Its going to put some pressure on Vasher and Tillman to play better man coverage. Arch would have a lot of responsibilities with dumpoffs and screens which would allow Urlacher to blitz more like Babich has declared.

I really hope Brown can make it at FS because otherwise he might be the odd man out. I think a speedy FS shouldnt be ruled out as a possiblility in the draft.
If it's on the Bears official website it's basically the same as coming from their mouth as all things are approved by the organization.

KBear
03-22-2007, 07:16 PM
We might be overlooking Brown's injury. Per Larry Mayer the team is "cautiously optimistic" about him making a full recovery before training camp but it is still possible that he starts the year on the PUP list since he really needs a full year to heal and rehabilitate.

NYmoney
03-28-2007, 10:13 AM
all in all. good trade.