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WiSeIVIaN
12-25-2010, 01:06 AM
It has been such a long time since two such athletes at the QB position have came out in the same draft. How do they compare?

Which is faster?
Which has a stronger arm?
Who has a higher ceiling?
Who has a higher floor?
Who has better accuracy?
Who has better pocket presence?
Who is more NFL ready?
Who has better intangibles?

(you don't necessarily have to answer the questions above, but just trying to start a deicussion :))

JPP90
12-25-2010, 02:10 AM
Arm- Id call it a draw as both guys have great arms

Accuracy- Newton

Speed- Another draw, I think they both will run sub-4.5

Higher ceiling- hard to answer that since both are great athletes playing QB and neither is a sure thing to make it in the NFL

Pocket presence- definently Newton even though everything is pre-determined

NFL-ready- Locker, comes from more of a pro-style and has a ton more experience

Higher bust potential- Newton

Better intangibles- Draw. Both seem like good leaders and have their own qualities that scouts like but both have major question marks. If Locker improves his accuracy at the next level he definently has a better shot to be a franchise QB. Who knows.

stephenson86
12-25-2010, 06:09 AM
I'd say Locker for the most part, he is second to Andrew Luck in terms of potential in my eyes, followed by Mallett then Newton...although Newton I think should just become a TE and stop fooling people into thinking he can make it as a QB.

A Perfect Score
12-25-2010, 07:04 AM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43865&highlight=Jake+Locker+vs.+Cam+Newton

We already have a 13 page thread on the subject.

descendency
12-25-2010, 07:26 AM
Which is faster? Newton (I'll give him the draw because of his significantly bigger frame)
Which has a stronger arm? Newton
Who has a higher ceiling? Newton
Who has a higher floor? Newton
Who has better accuracy? Push
Who has better pocket presence? Probably Locker
Who is more NFL ready? Locker
Who has better intangibles? Push

FUNBUNCHER
12-25-2010, 10:01 AM
I could see Locker actually timing faster than Newton in the 40, but when evaluating their respective running ability, it's not even close.
Elusiveness and functional speed on a football field, Cam is in his own class.

Accuracy, Newton. However, if you believe Locker is the 2nd or 3rd best QB prospect in this draft, you have to believe he can improve exponentially in this regard.
Strange thing is, how many college QBs who struggle to hit on 58% of their passes in colleges become even MORE accurate in the pros?? This is the one of the biggest issues I have about Locker, his ability to consistently pinpoint the football.

(BTW, Nebraska/U Dub is one of the few bowl games this season I'll watch all 4 quarters!!)

Ceiling; Cam IMO is closer right now, but if both players reach or come close to their potential, at some point in their careers they'll lead their respective teams to a SB game.
At minimum, I see both, (with Cam a little ahead right now), developing into 10 year starters with a handful of pro bowl appearances.

Arm strength; a huge positive for both.

Pocket presence; haven't seen enough of Locker to say for certain, but I hear that he keeps his eyes downfield when he's scrambling behind the LOS. Cam definitely knows how to evade a pass rush and get rid of the football.

NFL ready?? Neither. Best situation IMO would be to sit both for a season. But if they're both top 10 picks, that's unlikely to happen nowadays.
I see both struggling at first, but with gradual improvement game to game.
Both clearly have enough ability to make enough plays to win some games as rookies, but neither IMO can carry an offense for more than a few quarters at this point.

Intangibles?? Lockers comes across like a real straight arrow; tough-nosed, reasonably humble and confident. He hasn't been able to inspire his teammates to perform above their talent level, however, which IMO is what the truly great leaders in college and pro football have the ability to do.

Still, I think Locker's intangibles and tools alone are the primary reason why he's still considered a top 15 pick.
I can't think of a top QB prospect in the last 25 years, (other than Vick), who was drafted high in the 1st with such mediocre production on the field.

People can question Newton's character from now until April, but his intangibles,(ability to respond under high pressure circumstances, perform in big games, play well from behind, performance in the 4th quarter when trailing, the ability to outplay a physically more talented opponent, the ability to inspire his teammates), are truly special.

Auburn is playing for a NC because of one player; Cam Newton.
They win blowouts, they win close, they win in the 4th quarter, they win when the defense forgets to pack their shoulder pads.

I was on Locker's jock when the Huskies beat USC last year(2009). But ever since that signature win, similar exceptional moments for him have been hard to come by.

I'll take Cam on intangibles, but Locker has got them too.

I'd bet that many teams have their two top rated prospects Luck/Locker.
However, there's no more seductive prospect than Newton and he'll be really hard for teams in need of a QB high in the draft to pass on him.

stephenson86
12-25-2010, 10:38 AM
I could see Locker actually timing faster than Newton in the 40, but when evaluating their respective running ability, it's not even close.
Elusiveness and functional speed on a football field, Cam is in his own class.

Accuracy, Newton. However, if you believe Locker is the 2nd or 3rd best QB prospect in this draft, you have to believe he can improve exponentially in this regard.
Strange thing is, how many college QBs who struggle to hit on 58% of their passes in colleges become even MORE accurate in the pros?? This is the one of the biggest issues I have about Locker, his ability to consistently pinpoint the football.

(BTW, Nebraska/U Dub is one of the few bowl games this season I'll watch all 4 quarters!!)

Ceiling; Cam IMO is closer right now, but if both players reach or come close to their potential, at some point in their careers they'll lead their respective teams to a SB game.
At minimum, I see both, (with Cam a little ahead right now), developing into 10 year starters with a handful of pro bowl appearances.

Arm strength; a huge positive for both.

Pocket presence; haven't seen enough of Locker to say for certain, but I hear that he keeps his eyes downfield when he's scrambling behind the LOS. Cam definitely knows how to evade a pass rush and get rid of the football.

NFL ready?? Neither. Best situation IMO would be to sit both for a season. But if they're both top 10 picks, that's unlikely to happen nowadays.
I see both struggling at first, but with gradual improvement game to game.
Both clearly have enough ability to make enough plays to win some games as rookies, but neither IMO can carry an offense for more than a few quarters at this point.

Intangibles?? Lockers comes across like a real straight arrow; tough-nosed, reasonably humble and confident. He hasn't been able to inspire his teammates to perform above their talent level, however, which IMO is what the truly great leaders in college and pro football have the ability to do.

Still, I think Locker's intangibles and tools alone are the primary reason why he's still considered a top 15 pick.
I can't think of a top QB prospect in the last 25 years, (other than Vick), who was drafted high in the 1st with such mediocre production on the field.

People can question Newton's character from now until April, but his intangibles,(ability to respond under high pressure circumstances, perform in big games, play well from behind, performance in the 4th quarter when trailing, the ability to outplay a physically more talented opponent, the ability to inspire his teammates), are truly special.

Auburn is playing for a NC because of one player; Cam Newton.
They win blowouts, they win close, they win in the 4th quarter, they win when the defense forgets to pack their shoulder pads.

I was on Locker's jock when the Huskies beat USC last year(2009). But ever since that signature win, similar exceptional moments for him have been hard to come by.

I'll take Cam on intangibles, but Locker has got them too.

I'd bet that many teams have their two top rated prospects Luck/Locker.
However, there's no more seductive prospect than Newton and he'll be really hard for teams in need of a QB high in the draft to pass on him.

I have always noticed this...I think however it is because in college you can afford to risk things more than in the NFL, if your against a significantly better team the QB will take more high risk throws with a lower completion percentage, also when playing a worse team you might take more big play risks because you think you can. Ultimately I think it comes down to the fact that your supporting cast is not as good, bad routes by receivers, drops, hurries etc. When you get to the NFL these things tend to improve which allows the QB to be more accurate. That or they are all strung out on dope in college?

JPP90
12-25-2010, 12:37 PM
Another thing about Locker and his completion percentage, and its just an observation but you notice when you watch Washington they aren't a high percentage passing offense. Its either run plays to Polk or deep balls. You don't see a lot of dink and dunk with them. That can affect his completion percentage, as will droped passes which happened a lot. He stunk at times this year but at other times you looked at his supporting cast and wanted to throw up in your mouth.

DBNYDP
12-25-2010, 01:50 PM
Both these guys float the ball too much.
The zip on their balls is really bad on a good percentage of their passes.
Both have been helped immensely by their coach/system.
Both rely on their feet.

As you can probably tell I'm skeptical on both, they are both projects in my eyes, and don't warrant top 15 picks.

A Perfect Score
12-25-2010, 01:55 PM
Ive got Locker rated as a Top 15 guy and Newton as a late first rounder at the moment. My suspicions surrounding Newton are explained in detail over about 30 pages of the Cameron Newton thread, and I absolutely love Locker's intangibles and physical tools. Im willing to acknowledge he's still a project, but he's further ahead then Newton in my eyes and while he isn't quite the Top 5 prospect he was advertised as coming into the season, I think he's going to blow up the Senior Bowl/Combine and his interviews on his way to becoming a Top 15 selection.

CameronCropper
12-25-2010, 02:13 PM
Which is faster? Cam Newton.
Which has a stronger arm? Cam Newton.
Who has a higher ceiling? Cam Newton.
Who has a higher floor? Jake Locker.
Who has better accuracy? Jake Locker.
Who has better pocket presence? Cam Newton.
Who is more NFL ready? Jake Locker.
Who has better intangibles? Jake Locker.

Jake Locker reminds me a lot of Jay Cutler, it'll be interesting to see how he performs at the Senior Bowl and the combine, whether the whole "lack of supporting cast" has hurt his accuracy as much as some people claim.

Cam Newton has the higher ceiling by far, if he can replicate some of the things that he's doing at Auburn in the NFL then he'll be one heck of a game changer; people said Tebow couldn't run people over and break tackles like he did at Florida but, and I know it's early days, he didn't do too badly against the Raiders. He's a riskier pick though, Newton has a couple of character concerns and a lot of people are a little too quick to dismiss that fact I think.

I think Locker will end up going in the 10-15 range and Newton will probably be drafted not long afterwards. It'll be interesting to see the approaches that the teams that draft them take though, if Locker ends up at a team desperate for a QB I could see him being put in straight away but I think a Freeman-esque approach would be best for him and Newton should probably sit for a season.

FUNBUNCHER
12-25-2010, 04:55 PM
Shanahan won't let Locker fall out of the top 10. No way. He won't get past the SKins in any draft scenario.

BTW, I could see both guys taken in the top 7.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
12-25-2010, 05:14 PM
Which is faster? Cam Newton, game speed is better.

Which has a stronger arm? Locker he looks like he has a cannon

Who has a higher ceiling? Cam Newton has more up side,

Who has a higher floor? Cam right now he is a accurate passer and very good runner.

Who has better accuracy?Cam Newton inthe SEC title game vs South Carolina was on fire hitting his wideouts in strive
,
Who has better pocket presence? Cam Newton


Who is more NFL ready? Cam Newton

Who has better intangibles? CAM Newton he is a winner

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
12-25-2010, 05:14 PM
Arm- Id call it a draw as both guys have great arms

Accuracy- Newton

Speed- Another draw, I think they both will run sub-4.5

Higher ceiling- hard to answer that since both are great athletes playing QB and neither is a sure thing to make it in the NFL

Pocket presence- definently Newton even though everything is pre-determined

NFL-ready- Locker, comes from more of a pro-style and has a ton more experience

Higher bust potential- Newton

Better intangibles- Draw. Both seem like good leaders and have their own qualities that scouts like but both have major question marks. If Locker improves his accuracy at the next level he definently has a better shot to be a franchise QB. Who knows.

DRAW for intangibles are you freaking kidding me CAM NEWTON IS IN THE NATIONAL TITLE GAME, AND LOCKER IS IN A NO NAME NO ONE CARES BOWL.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
12-25-2010, 05:15 PM
Shanahan won't let Locker fall out of the top 10. No way. He won't get past the SKins in any draft scenario.

BTW, I could see both guys taken in the top 7.

i dont want the Skins to take him, i rather take Newton or trade down take a QB in round 2. and take Wideout or Dline player in round 1.

JPP90
12-25-2010, 05:32 PM
DRAW for intangibles are you freaking kidding me CAM NEWTON IS IN THE NATIONAL TITLE GAME, AND LOCKER IS IN A NO NAME NO ONE CARES BOWL.

Let's take Newton over Andrew Luck too. Luck is in a lower bowl than Newton so that obviously means Newton is better. You listed Newton as more NFL-ready than Locker when its ludicrous to say that given his 1 year of experience in a non-pro style of offense, and picked Newton for every category with no respect to Locker so Ill consider the source here.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
12-25-2010, 09:33 PM
Shutup lol luck is a different level Qb locker is a poser.

RealityCheck
12-25-2010, 10:10 PM
Both are overrated as ****, and that's all I have to say.

PhinsRock
12-25-2010, 10:39 PM
Arm- Id call it a draw as both guys have great arms

Accuracy- Newton

Speed- Another draw, I think they both will run sub-4.5

Higher ceiling- hard to answer that since both are great athletes playing QB and neither is a sure thing to make it in the NFL

Pocket presence- definently Newton even though everything is pre-determined

NFL-ready- Locker, comes from more of a pro-style and has a ton more experience

Higher bust potential- Newton

Better intangibles- Draw. Both seem like good leaders and have their own qualities that scouts like but both have major question marks. If Locker improves his accuracy at the next level he definently has a better shot to be a franchise QB. Who knows.
Both run a sub 4.5? Im willing to bet anything that neither will run a sub 4.6.

A Perfect Score
12-25-2010, 10:41 PM
Both run a sub 4.5? Im willing to bet anything that neither will run a sub 4.6.

I think Locker is going to time faster then Newton, somewhere around 4.48 whereas I think Newton is more of a 4.6 kind of guy.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
12-28-2010, 02:09 PM
Am starting to feel Jake Locker gets a bad rap, what if he played in the SEC, or Big ten , Big 12 team like Ohio state, or LSU , FLorida with tons and tons of athletes around him, he would have made the Heisman award more interesting,

he is 6-3 234 sub 4.5 speed, cannon for an arm, really tough kid. i like his up side, to me he is a faster Jay Culter, and if the Skins took him around 10-15 pick i would love it,

TRade down from 11th pick to pick 15 pick up extra 2, or 3 round, and take Locker. GO REDSKINS.
then get a Wideout like Torrey Smith in round 2, then round 3 get a De/OLB

CameronCropper
12-28-2010, 02:21 PM
i dont want the Skins to take him, i rather take Newton or trade down take a QB in round 2. and take Wideout or Dline player in round 1.


Shutup lol luck is a different level Qb locker is a poser.

Am starting to feel Jake Locker gets a bad rap, what if he played in the SEC, or Big ten , Big 12 team like Ohio state, or LSU , FLorida with tons and tons of athletes around him, he would have made the Heisman award more interesting,

he is 6-3 234 sub 4.5 speed, cannon for an arm, really tough kid. i like his up side, to me he is a faster Jay Culter, and if the Skins took him around 10-15 pick i would love it,

TRade down from 11th pick to pick 15 pick up extra 2, or 3 round, and take Locker. GO REDSKINS.
then get a Wideout like Torrey Smith in round 2, then round 3 get a De/OLB

Who are you and what have you done with REDSKINSWARRIOR82?

Babylon
12-28-2010, 02:25 PM
Who are you and what have you done with REDSKINSWARRIOR82?

Changes his mind more than my wife.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
12-28-2010, 10:35 PM
Redskins warrior because I have stayed strong with my team even in the san synder years. Yes I changed my mind on locker. Even Mel kiper Jr changes his mind.

CameronCropper
12-28-2010, 10:54 PM
Redskins warrior because I have stayed strong with my team even in the san synder years. Yes I changed my mind on locker. Even Mel kiper Jr changes his mind.

What has brought about this profound change?

RealityCheck
12-29-2010, 08:26 AM
If Locker runs a 4.5, I revoke my New England Patriots fandom.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
12-29-2010, 09:28 AM
It's really difficult to find a QB their not like running backs,wide outs. Locker is not a finished product,but he has major tools. Steve Young type of tools. LEGIT fast,cannon ARM,physically strong as a bull. I think kyle shannahan redskins QB coach can brinf out the best in him. Upside upside tools tools. Redskins have been searching for. A QB to replace Theiman for like 29 years. We are DESPERATE no chance we get luck , i can settle with Locker. What has brought about this profound change?

Monomach
12-29-2010, 10:28 AM
Shanahan won't let Locker fall out of the top 10. No way. He won't get past the SKins in any draft scenario.


Agree. As CameronCropper said, he reminds me A LOT of Jay Cutler, and Shanny loved him some Cutler.

descendency
12-29-2010, 10:32 AM
If Locker runs a 4.5, I revoke my New England Patriots fandom.

I think he has similar speed to Vince Young. Newton will outrun him, even giving up 25 lbs and 3 inches.

edit: Locker's arm isn't that big. If you say JaMarcus Russell is a 10, Mallett is a 9. Give Donovan McNabb an 7.5-8, then Locker is probably a 6.5-7. Cutler is an 8-8.5