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View Full Version : Who Are the Best 3-4 DE's?


kennyb
12-25-2010, 10:46 AM
Is Cameron Jordan large enough to play 3-4 DE? Cameron Heyward looks pretty good too.

Odd how they are both named Cameron.

I think there is a Jordan Cameron on USC who is the exact opposite name wise to the Cal DE.

Matthew Jones
12-25-2010, 11:00 AM
Cameron Jordan plays in a 3-4 at Cal and that's probably the best place for him in the NFL as well. He does a nice job against the run and the pass. I think he'll go in the middle of the first round, but he could even end up in the top ten, following in the footsteps of former teammate Tyson Alualu.

Cameron Heyward plays nose tackle in a 4-3, but in the NFL seems to be a strict 3-4 "gap control" end. He doesn't have anywhere near the athleticism to play in a zone blitz defense like Pittsburgh uses, and isn't really anything special as a pass rusher, limiting his effectiveness in one-gap 3-4 defenses. He should go somewhere in the second round.

P-L
12-25-2010, 11:46 AM
Cameron Jordan is listed at 6'4" 285. He might need to add 10 lbs or so, but that shouldn't be a problem at all. He's definitely a 3-4 end.

SenorGato
12-25-2010, 12:30 PM
Made this post on another forum and just figured I'd throw it out here:

1. Cameron Heyward - Really being slept on right now, but should find himself gone in the top 15 picks when it's all said and done.

2A. Nick Fairley - Only reason he's not #1 is because I think we're going to hear some character knocks on him. It's a dumb reason, sue me. Also, not sure he's badass enough to want the job. Either way, I think he's a top 10 talent who'll go in the mid teens because of work ethic and motor questions.

2B. Marcel Dareus - Not as tall as you'd like, but very strong and athletic. (Top 10, maybe top 15)

3. Cameron Jordan - Very good but not great size, and makes up for it with aggressive play, strength, and technique. Hopefully he's in the 290-295 range at combine. (Top 25-Early 2nd)

4. Lawrence Guy - Underrated Pac-10 DT with all the tools. A pure 3-4 DE prospect, though that in itself means he can play a bunch of other spots on the line too. Definitely a guy to keep an eye on. (Late first-mid 3rd)

5. Christian Ballard - Clayborne's less hyped teammate is basically Guy in the Big 10. Good player, plays everywhere on the line, and has good pro upside. I've heard some people say he'd be better a 3-tech, but I think he's a very good 3-4 DE prospect. (2nd-3rd)

6. Muhammad Wilkerson - Yet another guy with plus size (6'5 305) and athleticism. Consistently good in college, and I like Al Golden players. His teammate Adrian Robinson should be a player too. I expect him to rise. Really good size and skillset for the position. Another guy who I'm on the bandwagon of. (Could go in the first but being from Temple could hurt that. I'd guess early 2nd to early 3rd)

7. JJ Watt - Yea, this is a really deep group of players. He's long (6'6) but at 285 he'll need to put on weight to be a better anchor. (Possibly top 32, but off the top of my head I'd say top 60)

8. Jared Crick - Still really deep...Crick is also a good player with a big frame to throw some weight on. (Anywhere from top 60 to the early 4th)

9. Allen Bailey - Gun to my head I'd pick him because he's a freak athlete and freak athletes can do well. That said, I think he's a project player in this system all the way. He'd really do well to find himself in a 4-3, just like JPP got lucky. (First)

I like Fairley more than most in a 3-4, but I do have a gut feel that it's not perfect for him.

Wilkerson is good. I like him alot...he's gonna be a steal since he won't go in the first due to this draft's DL depth. Heyward's going to get his hype back soon enough.

SenorGato
12-25-2010, 12:30 PM
Double post.

Matthew Jones
12-25-2010, 12:35 PM
Heyward as the #1 prospect is completely ridiculous. Got absolutely shut down by Gabe Carimi and was mauled by Orlando Franklin too. Not even close to the prospect he was after the Rose Bowl.

Also, Nick Fairley's style of play is that of a three-technique. Oakland tried to move Warren Sapp to end when he was an obvious three-technique, and it failed miserably. Fairley would be a similar failure in an odd front. This dude is built to get pressure on the quarterback up the middle as an under-tackle in a 4-3.

SenorGato
12-25-2010, 12:42 PM
Heyward as the #1 prospect is completely ridiculous. Got absolutely shut down by Gabe Carimi and was mauled by Orlando Franklin too. Not even close to the prospect he was after the Rose Bowl.

Also, Nick Fairley's style of play is that of a three-technique. Oakland tried to move Warren Sapp to end when he was an obvious three-technique, and it failed miserably. Fairley would be a similar failure in an odd front. This dude is built to get pressure on the quarterback up the middle as an under-tackle in a 4-3.

I don't hold the belief that talent fluctuates season to season. Heyward's got a longer resume than a disappointing senior year, and I think he's one of the most steady players in this draft.

Nick Fairley is listed anywhere from 6'4'-6'6 295-315 on the internet. Sapp was listed at 6'2 at the best, and usually 6'1 or even 6'0. I think you underrate how much measurables play into this position. I don't think it's impossible for Fairley, though I generally agree that it's not THE system for him.

Sloopy
12-25-2010, 12:50 PM
Heyward as the #1 prospect is completely ridiculous. Got absolutely shut down by Gabe Carimi and was mauled by Orlando Franklin too. Not even close to the prospect he was after the Rose Bowl.

Also, Nick Fairley's style of play is that of a three-technique. Oakland tried to move Warren Sapp to end when he was an obvious three-technique, and it failed miserably. Fairley would be a similar failure in an odd front. This dude is built to get pressure on the quarterback up the middle as an under-tackle in a 4-3.

I feel that your seriously underestimating Heyward as a prospect here, yes he hasn't had a great senior season but stat wise Jordan only has 2.5 more sacks this year. Heyward is awesome against the run and as far as Heyward not being athletic enough, my dude picked off a pass and almost ran it back for a TD against Miami, he's pretty athletic

P-L
12-25-2010, 01:19 PM
I still like Heyward, but I really can't buy him as the top guy either. Fairley, Dareus, Jordan, Watt, and [arguably] Guy were all more impressive on the field this year. He's a good-but-not-great athlete and certainly not the best of the group. I doubt he has a good enough combine performance to make up for an underwhelming senior season.

As far as his resume goes, it's mostly irrelevant. The NFL Draft is a "what have you done for me lately" process. Players can be non-existent for three years but if they blow up in that fourth year, they'll be a very high pick. We've also seen the opposite; players who under-perform in their senior seasons, fall down draft boards, and fail to live up to the hype they received earlier in their career.

wicket
12-25-2010, 04:22 PM
9. Allen Bailey - Gun to my head I'd pick him because he's a freak athlete and freak athletes can do well. That said, I think he's a project player in this system all the way. He'd really do well to find himself in a 4-3, just like JPP got lucky. (First)


I disagree with this very much, I like bailey first and foremost in a 3-4. This since I think he actually has a pretty decent floor in the 34 whilst he might have a slightly higher ceiling in the 43 but loads of bust potential there.

even with bailey not playing upto his measurables he does actually show enough motor and discipline to at the very least be a decent 34 end whilst unless he is going to play up to his measurables I see him struggling both at end and tackle in the 43

descendency
12-25-2010, 04:53 PM
Bailey with a good first step is my #1 34 DE.

I like Cameron Jordan, Marcel Dareus (for scheme versatility), Cameron Heyward, and for the surprise that no one will likely agree with: DaQuan Bowers.

edit: even if I think Bowers will tank when he signs his first contract.

ChiFan24
12-25-2010, 05:32 PM
I've been saying for a while that Cam will be viewed as the best pure 3-4 end in this draft. Best frame, experience in the system, and better at holding the point than any of the other prospect in this discussion. Dareus and Fairley may be more disruptive, but I think they only fit certain 3-4's, like San Diego and Dallas, and would be much better off as UT's.

SenorGato
12-25-2010, 07:25 PM
I disagree with this very much, I like bailey first and foremost in a 3-4. This since I think he actually has a pretty decent floor in the 34 whilst he might have a slightly higher ceiling in the 43 but loads of bust potential there.

even with bailey not playing upto his measurables he does actually show enough motor and discipline to at the very least be a decent 34 end whilst unless he is going to play up to his measurables I see him struggling both at end and tackle in the 43

Still sounds like a project player to me.

He has two major pluses to me...freak athleticism, and the "good guy" label. I'd say Miami pedigree, but who's the last really good DE to come out of Miami? Kennie Holmes, maybe?

He's a great buy low candidate, but to me that'd be 2nd round or later. Maybe if the Jets pick low enough in the first...other teams should feel free to take him. I want a plug and go guy...we need someone who can fight and even win a starting job immediately.

DBNYDP
12-26-2010, 02:46 AM
Bailey can definitely play a 3-4 DE as well as 4-3 DE, and maybe a 3-4 OLB.
At either of those positions he is a project. But his work ethic and freakish athleticism, down the road this guy just might be the best at any of those positions.
I can see a team like Baltimore drafting this guy behind the already stable defense they have and reaping the rewards in the future.

JHL6719
12-26-2010, 04:00 AM
Anybody see Adrian Taylor as a 3-4 end candidate?

descendency
12-26-2010, 06:38 AM
Bailey can definitely play a 3-4 DE as well as 4-3 DE, and maybe a 3-4 OLB.
At either of those positions he is a project. But his work ethic and freakish athleticism, down the road this guy just might be the best at any of those positions.
I can see a team like Baltimore drafting this guy behind the already stable defense they have and reaping the rewards in the future.

I know it's insane, but he's built like a huge MLB.

Matthew Jones
12-26-2010, 07:24 AM
Anybody see Adrian Taylor as a 3-4 end candidate?

I could see it, but his complete lack of production this year after the severe injury last year makes it unlikely he's a high pick.