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View Full Version : Brandon Weeden, QB, Oklahoma St.


PhinsRock
12-31-2010, 02:56 PM
Thoughts on if he comes out or not??

His star RB is a Sr. and Blackmon will probably declare. His O-line should stay intact, but I'm not sure that he can repeat what he did this season. To me he should and will.

If he does where do you guys see him going, and what do you think of his NFL future? I'm a little skeptical because it is just one season, but he has the tools, work ethic and smarts to be an above average NFL QB, IMO. Right now there are 3 first round caliber QB's, IMO, (not who I think is going in the 1st, but who I think is worth it).

Luck
Weeden
Gabbert


On an unrelated note, how come I cannot see anybody's sig's when I am signed on? When I sign out I can see everyone's, but when I'm logged in I can't.

Scott Wright
12-31-2010, 03:09 PM
Weeden is a potentially late rounder if he comes out this year.

BeerBaron
12-31-2010, 03:10 PM
Weeden is a potentially late rounder if he comes out this year.

Part of the reason I think he'd stay. If there's some question as to whether you'll be drafted at all....stay in school. Football likely isn't going to be your future. Get your degree and enjoy being the big man on campus as a senior.

TACKLE
12-31-2010, 03:13 PM
If this guy was 4 years younger, he'd be a lot higher rated. He has been really good year a impressive physical skill set but its hard to want to develop 28 year old rookie QB.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-31-2010, 03:14 PM
He's better suited to the NFL than Chris Weinke, but he probably doesn't get drafted much higher

ElectricEye
12-31-2010, 03:15 PM
Father time is working against him in a major way. He's dominating the competition...but he's almost 30. Can't tell me that in conjunction with developing his body for five years or whatever it was as a baseball player doesn't skew this a bit. You can then get into offensive scheme and other concerns, but age is going to make him a late round pick already.

PhinsRock
12-31-2010, 03:16 PM
Late rounder? Really??

I thought late 2, early 3.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-31-2010, 03:18 PM
Late rounder? Really??

I thought late 2, early 3.

he's not perfect as a prospect to begin with so when you throw age in there most teams will look at him as a back up/stop gap at best

if he was 23 things would be different

MassNole
12-31-2010, 03:21 PM
Late rounder? Really??

I thought late 2, early 3.
To draft him in the first 3 rounds would indicate you think he starts for you within 2 years at his age. I don't think he's that NFL ready.

phlysac
12-31-2010, 03:53 PM
Two of my favorite QBs in the draft that have major reasons to be untouched come draft time.

Brandon Weeden - OLD, one year of experience.

Russell Wilson - TOO SHORT, baseball.

Scotty D
12-31-2010, 05:19 PM
I think he's a good pick up in the 6th or 7th and stash him as the #3. We heard the same age thing about John Beck and he ended up going in the second round. I loved what I saw of him in the bowl game the other night.

energizerbunny
12-31-2010, 09:22 PM
The only way he declares is if he is pushed out the door by Gundy... which I don't believe will happen because there is no clear cut guy pushing him right now.

brasho
01-01-2011, 07:49 PM
I think he is a late rounder if he comes out this year, and an ever later rounder if he comes out next year... what is he? 26? He needs to come out now if he wants a shot.


BTW, that list at the top has Luck, Gabbert, and Weeden as 1st round picks? Weeden? Seriously?!?


How about this?
1) Luck, Gabbert, Newton, Mallet, Locker
2-5) Kaepernick, Dalton, Ponder, Devlin, McElroy

SenorGato
01-01-2011, 11:30 PM
I think it's trippy because it took me f'n 10 seconds to remember that I remembered backed when he was an MLB prospect for the Yankees. I remember his scouting report...had a good sinker that could hit 94 but never developed anything else. G'luck to him to making it to and doing what he wants to do in the NFL.

gpngc
01-02-2011, 12:23 AM
His age is not much of an issue.

You don't draft a guy planning for him to play for you for 10 years. If he's that successful during his first contract then maybe that would be a negative (maybe only 5 years before he starts to ware down) but that would also mean he was good if you want to re-sign him.

He'll be 28, not 38. Beck's stock wasn't really affected much by his age.

JPP90
01-02-2011, 12:41 AM
His age is not much of an issue.

You don't draft a guy planning for him to play for you for 10 years. If he's that successful during his first contract then maybe that would be a negative (maybe only 5 years before he starts to ware down) but that would also mean he was good if you want to re-sign him.

He'll be 28, not 38. Beck's stock wasn't really affected much by his age.

Ok he's older than Aaron Rodgers, who has 6 seasons of NFL experience under his belt...that shouldn't concern a team. The fact that there is a person on this board that considers him a better prospect than Jake Locker......to put it nicely, its just sad. Like LeBron leaving Cleveland sad...

gpngc
01-02-2011, 12:51 AM
Ok he's older than Aaron Rodgers, who has 6 seasons of NFL experience under his belt...that shouldn't concern a team. The fact that there is a person on this board that considers him a better prospect than Jake Locker......to put it nicely, its just sad. Like LeBron leaving Cleveland sad...

Not really.

You aren't taking him #1 overall with the intention of him being the face of your franchise for the next 10-15 years.

You are taking him in the mid-late rounds as a guy who could be a backup or perhaps fight for a starting job.

He'll be 28 at the start of next NFL season = physically in his prime. Emotionally and mentally he's probably in better shape than some youngsters also.

How is it a problem that he's 28? Because in approximately 5 years he won't be able to run as fast? It's the QB position anyway - he's not a runner. You don't lose your arm/brain. Warner/Favre/etc. - jeez QBs can play into their 40s.

Plus with all the GM/coaching turnover constantly in today's NFL, no GM is going to pass on a kid (if he likes his game enough to draft him) because he's 28. If you feel he can help the team within 2 or 3 years (or right away) - you take him. It's just as much of a risk as any prospect.

Plus it's a QB. If you like him, that means other teams do also so you better take him when you can. 28 or not.

gpngc
01-02-2011, 12:54 AM
Furthermore, this situation happened with John Beck a few years ago.

His stock was not affected.

He was never considered a first round pick and was selected at the top of the second round - 40th overall.

And in retrospect - he was actually drafted TOO HIGH.

In other words, the Phins didn't give a **** that he was 26 at the time. And he sucked.

JPP90
01-02-2011, 01:04 AM
Not really.

You aren't taking him #1 overall with the intention of him being the face of your franchise for the next 10-15 years.

You are taking him in the mid-late rounds as a guy who could be a backup or perhaps fight for a starting job.

He'll be 28 at the start of next NFL season = physically in his prime. Emotionally and mentally he's probably in better shape than some youngsters also.

How is it a problem that he's 28? Because in approximately 5 years he won't be able to run as fast? It's the QB position anyway - he's not a runner. You don't lose your arm/brain. Warner/Favre/etc. - jeez QBs can play into their 40s.

Plus with all the GM/coaching turnover constantly in today's NFL, no GM is going to pass on a kid (if he likes his game enough to draft him) because he's 28. If you feel he can help the team within 2 or 3 years (or right away) - you take him. It's just as much of a risk as any prospect.

Plus it's a QB. If you like him, that means other teams do also so you better take him when you can. 28 or not.

I'm not even gonna waste my time on Weeden as a 1st rd/franchise QB because its not even logical or realistic whatsoever. Now figure this...in a weak QB class where Brees followed Vick as the 2nd QB off the board as a 2nd rounder in 01, the best that uber-hyped +hris Weinke could do is 3rd round...that's with more experience, as a higher profile program and a Heisman Trophy on his mantle. What will 28-29 year old Brandon Weeden manage with less experience, exposure or accolades? I'm betting UDFA. Good QBs go undrafted these days, let alone guys that carry real concerns. On the Beck front, he was 25, I believe...it wasn't a prudent choice and Miami realized they had to cut the cord quick because he wasn't getting younger so you can't say you're "developing him". These guys either come in and light it up at 25+ or they're holding a clipboard

gpngc
01-02-2011, 01:19 AM
I'm not even gonna waste my time on Weeden as a 1st rd/franchise QB because its not even logical or realistic whatsoever. Now figure this...in a weak QB class where Brees followed Vick as the 2nd QB off the board as a 2nd rounder in 01, the best that uber-hyped +hris Weinke could do is 3rd round...that's with more experience, as a higher profile program and a Heisman Trophy on his mantle. What will 28-29 year old Brandon Weeden manage with less experience, exposure or accolades? I'm betting UDFA. Good QBs go undrafted these days, let alone guys that carry real concerns. On the Beck front, he was 25, I believe...it wasn't a prudent choice and Miami realized they had to cut the cord quick because he wasn't getting younger so you can't say you're "developing him". These guys either come in and light it up at 25+ or they're holding a clipboard

I'm not commenting on where I think Weeden will be drafted or where I think he should be drafted. Please re-read.

What I'm trying to prove is that his age (just his age) will not affect his draft stock much, if at all.

I pointed to John Beck, who was drafted at 25, but started the season at 26. Weeden will be drafted at 27 or 28, and start the season at 28. This was evidence proving that the Dolphins did not care about his age. If you think teams won't care about 26 but will about 28 then... I don't know.

If Weeden goes undrafted, it won't be because of his age.

As for Weinke, I don't think he "fell" because of age. I don't think he even "fell" at all because he was always rated behind Vick and Brees. I think he was drafted (appropriately) in the 3rd because his game didn't translate too well to the pros without the amazing Seminoles around him.

JPP90
01-02-2011, 01:52 AM
To make a long story short, yes I do think the NFL will care about a 28 year old QB. There are much better options out there. I don't think he'd find himself drafted this year. And. Next year...you're talking 29. He might as well latch on somewhere as a coach at that point.

gpngc
01-02-2011, 02:39 AM
To make a long story short, yes I do think the NFL will care about a 28 year old QB. There are much better options out there. I don't think he'd find himself drafted this year. And. Next year...you're talking 29. He might as well latch on somewhere as a coach at that point.

lolololol

Todd Collins is 39.

Kerry Collins is 38.

Mark Brunell is 40.

Kurt Warner came back to the NFL at age 27 after a stint in the AFL. He enjoyed 12 awesome seasons after age 27.

Brett Favre is 104.

QBs do not physically break down to the point where they cannot be effective like other positions do.

Weeden will be evaluated based on his pro potential and like Beck and Weinke before him, he will be drafted based on how teams feel his game translates and NOT based on his age.

JPP90
01-02-2011, 02:46 AM
....you're comparing him to guys that have played the position in the NFL for 15-20 years and are more mentors or caretakers than anything else. That isn't close to Brandon Weeden's situation. Even Warner paid his dues on practice squads, NFLE and the AFL, not to mention a full college career. Just a terrible tangent you're going on here..

gpngc
01-02-2011, 02:55 AM
....you're comparing him to guys that have played the position in the NFL for 15-20 years and are more mentors or caretakers than anything else. That isn't close to Brandon Weeden's situation. Even Warner paid his dues on practice squads, NFLE and the AFL, not to mention a full college career. Just a terrible tangent you're going on here..

I'm not talking about his situation or even him as a prospect. I'm talking about his age.

The argument is not about Weeden. It's about any QB prospect at age 28. I'm saying their stock would not be affected. You are saying it would be impacted negatively in a huge way. Beck's wasn't, Weinke's wasn't, but Weeden's will, you're saying. You also insinuated that by age 29, a QB is too old to play, but should instead look to coach. I gave you four active QBs who are older than 37.

I gave you three examples why teams wouldn't care about that age.

I'm enjoying destroying you in the argument also.

So unless you can prove that Chris Weinke or John Beck would have been drafted higher if they weren't older than other prospects, then we have to assume that they were drafted based on their merits, and not their age because both were drafted right about where they were projected (and both sucked so if anything they were drafted too high).

And if there's an example of a guy coming into the league at age 27 and doing what Kurt Warner did, why would any team shy away from a QB at age 27 in the draft?

JPP90
01-02-2011, 03:07 AM
You're honestly telling me that because of 2 scenarios...John Beck and Chris Weinke...no one will put age against Brandon Weeden. A better argument would be "some team might be dumb enough to overlook his age and inexperience and draft him". That would nake a tad bit more sense than trying to argue that age doesn't factor into a players draft stock. Its one of the biggest factors due to that thing you hear all the time.."prime". Weeden already spent his prime in the minor leagues. He's approaching the 30s where NFL QBs should have upwards of 7-8 years experience of playbooks and practice time, if nothing else. Warner spent years playing football at a smaller level before making it with the Rams. Brandon Weeden is old and inexperienced. I wanna make a bet with you right now...mark it down and we'll revisit it if he declares. If any reliable scouting report on the guy fails to mention his age, Ill wear a Brandon Weeden sig. I'm not worried about that though.

He may make an NFL roster as a 7th-UDFA, I don't doubt that...but age will be the main reason he goes that low.

gpngc
01-02-2011, 03:17 AM
You're honestly telling me that because of 2 scenarios...John Beck and Chris Weinke...no one will put age against Brandon Weeden. A better argument would be "some team might be dumb enough to overlook his age and inexperience and draft him". That would nake a tad bit more sense than trying to argue that age doesn't factor into a players draft stock. Its one of the biggest factors due to that thing you hear all the time.."prime". Weeden already spent his prime in the minor leagues. He's approaching the 30s where NFL QBs should have upwards of 7-8 years experience of playbooks and practice time, if nothing else. Warner spent years playing football at a smaller level before making it with the Rams. Brandon Weeden is old and inexperienced. I wanna make a bet with you right now...mark it down and we'll revisit it if he declares. If any reliable scouting report on the guy fails to mention his age, Ill wear a Brandon Weeden sig. I'm not worried about that though.

He may make an NFL roster as a 7th-UDFA, I don't doubt that...but age will be the main reason he goes that low.

1 - That would be true if was any other position than a QB. QBs can still play at a high level WELL into their 30s. This is simply a fact.

And if for some reason a guy would be destined to completely break down at age 33 let's say, then a team wouldn't spend a 5th round pick for 5 years of a good QB? They'd sign up for that in a second. The GM might not even be there in 5 years...

2 - So please answer this hypothetical: It is revealed that Andrew Luck is actually 27 years old. Do you move him down on your board because of this new information? You are the Panthers. Do you pass on Luck - the merits are all there, his chances of being a franchise QB are as high as we've seen since Peyton - because he's 27?

Wrathman
01-02-2011, 03:20 AM
Every team who will consider Weeden for their organization will discuss the pros and cons about him. Anyone who thinks his age is not going to come up in those conversations is kidding themselves. There will be pro points and con points for his age, but the con side will weigh more heavily and here's why.

I think a fair length of time for a quarterback drafted as a QB2 (which will be his ceiling to most in my opinion) to develop into that position is 1-3 years. That means Weeden is 29, 30 or 31 before he's ready to officially hold the clipboard for the first time. When his initial contract expires, he'll be 32 years old with little to no game experience in the NFL barring injury ahead of him on the depth chart.

Why would the team that drafted him resign a 32-year old QB with very little NFL experience at that point? Why would another team want to sign a 32-year old quarterback with little to no NFL experience?

It's not going to happen. It makes virtually no sense from an organizational development point of view. The last quarterback to leave school, enter the NFL at an age similar to Weeden's, be successful and not have played professionally in another league that I can think of was Roger Staubach. Enough said there.

Any team that pulls the trigger on him is unlikely to draft him prior to Round 5 because drafting him earlier than that point holds less value than someone they can draft who is six years younger and who could hopefully aid the team for those six years. At Round 5 and beyond, a team will hope to catch lightning in a bottle and take a chance. At that point, the risk is decreased and the cost of missing is not so high. Teams will draft him knowing that he'll need to prove his value within that initial contract or they won't give him another to do so.

There will be no need for people who work Monday through Friday to take time off work to hear Weeden's name called during this draft...if he declares.

IMHO.

gpngc
01-02-2011, 03:28 AM
Every team who will consider Weeden for their organization will discuss the pros and cons about him. Anyone who thinks his age is not going to come up in those conversations is kidding themselves. There will be pro points and con points for his age, but the con side will weigh more heavily and here's why.

I think a fair length of time for a quarterback drafted as a QB2 (which will be his ceiling to most in my opinion) to develop into that position is 1-3 years. That means Weeden is 29, 30 or 31 before he's ready to officially hold the clipboard for the first time. When his initial contract expires, he'll be 32 years old with little to no game experience in the NFL barring injury ahead of him on the depth chart.

Why would the team that drafted him resign a 32-year old QB with very little NFL experience at that point? Why would another team want to sign a 32-year old quarterback with little to no NFL experience?

It's not going to happen. It makes virtually no sense from an organizational development point of view. The last quarterback to leave school, enter the NFL at an age similar to Weeden's, be successful and not have played professionally in another league that I can think of was Roger Staubach. Enough said there.

Any team that pulls the trigger on him is unlikely to draft him prior to Round 5 because drafting him earlier than that point holds less value than someone they can draft who is six years younger and who could hopefully aid the team for those six years. At Round 5 and beyond, a team will hope to catch lightning in a bottle and take a chance. At that point, the risk is decreased and the cost of missing is not so high. Teams will draft him knowing that he'll need to prove his value within that initial contract or they won't give him another to do so.

There will be no need for people who work Monday through Friday to take time off work to hear Weeden's name called during this draft...if he declares.

IMHO.

For the same reason they'd re-sign a 25-year old who spent 3 years with them - because he's valuable to them as a backup or competing to be a starter.

31 is not that old by QB standards. Especially pocket passers.

Why did Miami invest a 2nd round pick in a similar situation? Clearly, they weren't scared away by Beck being 26. And he sucked.

Wrathman
01-02-2011, 03:36 PM
For the same reason they'd re-sign a 25-year old who spent 3 years with them - because he's valuable to them as a backup or competing to be a starter.

31 is not that old by QB standards. Especially pocket passers.

Why did Miami invest a 2nd round pick in a similar situation? Clearly, they weren't scared away by Beck being 26. And he sucked.

You keep bringing these points up as if there are plenty of examples where this worked out. The only example you have presented is Beck and there's agreement on both sides of this discussion as to how poorly that worked out.

The track record of "mature" NCAA quarterbacks moving to the NFL is extremely poor. There's nothing to indicate that we have found an exception in this case.

I totally agree with you that 31 is not old for a pocket passer. As was pointed out earlier in this thread though, what we know about the typical 31-year old NFL quarterback is that they almost always have about eight years of NFL experience at that point. Weeden would have three years of NFL experience with extremely little actual game experience barring injury. My guess is I could count the number of GM's on one hand (likely without needing any of my fingers) who would prefer to have a three-year vet over an eight-year vet that were the same age.