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View Full Version : The "Evolution" of College Football In Florida


Jimmy
01-01-2011, 09:32 PM
1. Miami
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2002/01/04/miami_bowl/johnson_sm-01.jpg
2. Florida State
http://clubseatsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/peter-warrick.jpg
3. Florida
http://cdn.faniq.com/images/blog/b3e5ca9f48a1dd7270174ee1f914021e.jpg


Growing in the late 90's and early 2000's, far far away in a land called Connecticut, I watched the aforementioned powerhouses dominate college football. Nowadays, it seems as if the state of Florida is growing more and more irrelevant. With Urban Meyer leaving Florida today, it seems as if things have never been worse.

What has happened since? Can someone from Florida, or someone who has followed Florida college football en masse explain to me why there's been such a large shift in power? Why have Miami and Florida State lost their dominance? Why did FSU beat Jacksonville State by a slim margin of 19-9? And why are teams like USF emerging? I wouldn't be surprised in 15-20 years if USF is the best team in the state, based on what I've seen over the last 5 years.

I guess the main question is, where do you see Florida college football in 10 years, and why is this happening? Don't these kids want to go to Miami and FSU anymore? If they still are nabbing great recruiting classes, is the why aren't they developing into elite talents, and why aren't they winning? Obviously, the talent pool of high school kids isn't shrinking, but it seems to me that the kids are migrating to other states for their ball, or they're just dispersing themselves more evenly to USF Will Miami and FSU ever return to dominance?

wonderbredd24
01-01-2011, 09:39 PM
Central Florida is the "best" team in Florida right now.

Everyone goes through ups and downs. Florida is the best coaching job in the country right this second. That could change in a year or few. Florida State appears to be on their way back up. Miami could be get back there at some point.

There is enough talent in Florida and Texas to support 2 dominant teams at a time... the question is which 2 programs are going to get most of it.

Central and South Florida are enormous universities in big population centers. UCF is in Orlando and South Florida is in that Tampa area.

BigJohn98
01-01-2011, 09:39 PM
For FSU, it was Bowden. The guy remained loyal to his coaches. Coaches who couldn't coach. Coaches who couldn't recruit guys with high character. We almost lost to JSU last year because we had just played a game five days earlier. We lost on Labor Day night to Miami. It was a physical, emotional game. Then to have to turn around and play JSU five days later, it was a huge letdown. Plus the receivers couldn't hold on to the ball at all.

The powers in Florida go in cycles. Miami had the 80s. FSU had its streak of 14 straight top 5 finishes from 1987-2000. They had 11 straight bowl wins as well. Two streaks that will most likely never be touched again. And Florida was a power in the 90s, but they have peaked to the top recently due to the fact that Miami and FSU have been in the crapper.

If you look at the state of the big three now, it's easily:

1.FSU
2.UF
3.Miami

FSU has the brightest future of the big 3 right now. We just rapped up a 10 win season. We will finish with a top 3 recruiting class, and have a good chance of having the number one recruiting class in the country. And we have the best coaching staff in the state.

jrdrylie
01-01-2011, 09:46 PM
First is that how you currently rank Florida teams? because FSU is better tha. Miami. But as. Guy who lived in Florida for 19 years I think I know the problems. Florida State started going downhill when Jeff Biwden became the OC. He destroyed the program. The hire of Larry Coker is what killed Miami. Sure he won them a championship but he also left the team in a much worse position. Add that to the fact that Miami doesn't have the money or facilities as other schools I don't see them dominating anytime soon. I actually think Florida losing Meyer is a good thing. He is great when he has great players. But he lacks the ability to alter his offense so without a Tebow or Alex Smith, he is average.

I think FSU and Florida will be fine. They will continue to challenge for championships. If you are looking for the next dominant team it could be UCF. They are the second largest school in the nation, have a ton of money, beautiful facilities, and access to great players in Orlando, Jacksonville, and Miami. If the Big East offers them a spot, I think UCF could dominate the league.

MassNole
01-01-2011, 09:54 PM
Wow, that is one of the most uninformed posts I've ever seen.

From 2001-09 FSU went through Bobby Bowden's fall from grace, or as FSU fans have come to call it the Lost Decade. He had given up coaching and retained numerous coaches who really had no business having their jobs, which is evidenced by all of them being unemployed today. The Jacksonville State game was followed up by the Noles going out to Provo and blowing the doors off of a good BYU team. By the end of 2009 it was finally obvious to the administration that Bowden needed to go when he suggested Chuck Amato be promoted to Defensive Coordinator and the change was made to let Fisher take over the program one way or another. Prior to that even though he was the HCIW, Fisher had no control over the program and ranked below Mickey Andrews and Amato on the totem pole.

Flash forward to 2010, FSU fielding a young defense (5 sophomores, 1 freshman starting) FSU improved from 108th in the country in total defense to 48th and went from no pash rush to leading the nation in sacks. This defense comes back virtually intact and the players replacing the departing seniors are all big talent upgrades Overall they went from 7-6 and losing to UF, UM, and USF to 10-4 with blowout wins over UF and UM and the first 10 win season since 2003.

As for recruits wanting to come to the schools the #1 class in the country will come down to FSU or Alabama (I'd guess FSU #1 in ESPN, Bama #1 in Rivals) so I think that would be an overwhelming yes that top players want to go to Florida State.

Florida and Miami will go down their own paths from here, but the one year head start FSU got on them in this new round of rebuilding has certainly been beneficial, especially with the absurd amount of talent FSU has brought in since Fisher took over.

BigJohn98
01-01-2011, 09:54 PM
Central Florida is the "best" team in Florida right now.

.

No, no they're not.

jrdrylie
01-01-2011, 10:01 PM
No, no they're not.

Tell me how many Central Florida games you have watched? Maybe one? I've watched all but two plus basically every game FSU Miami and Florida have played and I'll tell you that the Knights would beat Miami. They would probably beat Florida too. But UCF and FSU lost close games to NC State so I think they would give FSU a good game. With their great defense and solid running game, they would be a very tough match up. and let's not forget that UCF has the beat record and was the only team to win a conference championship except FIU (and I doubt anyone will argue they are the best team in Florida).

wonderbredd24
01-01-2011, 10:01 PM
No, no they're not.
That's interesting. I could've sworn 11-3 was better than 10-4.

MassNole
01-01-2011, 10:03 PM
Central Florida is the "best" team in Florida right now..

What?

1) 10-4 in the ACC > 11-3 in CUSA

2) UCF beat no one of note, FSU beat down UF and Miami, not to mention beating SEC East winner South Carolina in the game formerly known as the Peach Bowl.

3) Just no.

jrdrylie
01-01-2011, 10:04 PM
That's interesting. I could've sworn 11-3 was better than 10-4.

FSU is actually 10-4 but still not as good as UCF.

BigJohn98
01-01-2011, 10:06 PM
FSU is actually 10-4 but still not as good as UCF.

Based on...what exactly?

wonderbredd24
01-01-2011, 10:06 PM
What?

1) 10-4 in the ACC > 11-3 in CUSA

2) UCF beat no one of note, FSU beat down UF and Miami, not to mention beating SEC East winner South Carolina in the game formerly known as the Peach Bowl.

3) Just no.
You say that like the ACC is good. By the way, who won that conference?

The SEC East sucked ass this year. Central Florida beat Georgia.

jrdrylie
01-01-2011, 10:08 PM
What?

1) 10-4 in the ACC > 11-3 in CUSA

2) UCF beat no one of note, FSU beat down UF and Miami, not to mention beating SEC East winner South Carolina in the game formerly known as the Peach Bowl.

3) Just no.

UCF just beat Georgia. I know they are down but it is still an SEC team. And against NC State, they played just as well as Florida State. But the real test is next year against Boston College and Texas (who they nearly beat a few years ago when the Longhorns were in the top 20).

jrdrylie
01-01-2011, 10:10 PM
Based on...what exactly?

I meant their record is not as good as UCF. Sorry it was a bit confusing.

MassNole
01-01-2011, 10:11 PM
The ACC may not be the SEC, but it is certainly better than CUSA by a considerable margin and is far from the worst BCS conference.

BigJohn98
01-01-2011, 10:11 PM
You say that like the ACC is good. By the way, who won that conference?

The SEC East sucked ass this year. Central Florida beat Georgia.

Lol, Georgia is freaking terrible. They got beat by Colorado.

Just because they play in the SEC doesn't mean that they're some unstoppable force.

wonderbredd24
01-01-2011, 10:13 PM
The ACC may not be the SEC, but it is certainly better than CUSA by a considerable margin and is far from the worst BCS conference.
When you say far from the worst BCS conference... what does that mean exactly?

The Big East welcomes TCU, so the ACC is battling it out with what's left of the soon to be dead Big XII for last among BCS Conferences, so... yea. Go ACC.

And Central Florida is going to be in a BCS Conference sooner than later... just a question of which one.

jrdrylie
01-01-2011, 10:16 PM
Lol, Georgia is freaking terrible. They got beat by Colorado.

That was without AJ Green and in one of Aaron Murry's first starts. And if Georgia sucks for losing to Colorada then Virginia Tech must really suck for losing to JMU and what does that say about FSU being dominated by the Hokies?

Jimmy
01-01-2011, 10:16 PM
What about USF?

wonderbredd24
01-01-2011, 10:21 PM
What about USF?
It's a nice program with a good amount of talent and a nice young head coach in Skip Holtz.

If not for TCU joining the Conference, USF might have had the easiest path to a National Title out of any school in the state.

jrdrylie
01-01-2011, 10:21 PM
What about USF?

Even though they are in a BCS conference, they still aren't progressing well. Ten years from now, I think the rankings will be FSU and Florida fighting circuit top spot, UCF close behind, with USF and Miami fighting did fourth. And if FIU can keep their coach they could be pretty good too.

MassNole
01-01-2011, 10:22 PM
Lol, Georgia is freaking terrible. They got beat by Colorado.

Just because they play in the SEC doesn't mean that they're some unstoppable force.

Just playing the string out here, UF and UGA played an OT game, so lets say for argument's sake they are about equal. Where UCF beat UGA by 4, FSU beat UF by 24.

When you say far from the worst BCS conference... what does that mean exactly?

The Big East welcomes TCU, so the ACC is battling it out with what's left of the soon to be dead Big XII for last among BCS Conferences, so... yea. Go ACC.

And Central Florida is going to be in a BCS Conference sooner than later... just a question of which one.

1) The ACC is better than the Big East, even with the addition of TCU. The ACC likely jumps the Big 12-2 and well looking out how the Big 10 has done in bowl games, I'd give the ACC the nod over them to.

2) UCF's best hope for BCS admission is actually for FSU to join the SEC and then grab their spot in the ACC.

jrdrylie
01-01-2011, 10:26 PM
Just playing the string out here, UF and UGA played an OT game, so lets say for argument's sake they are about equal. Where UCF beat UGA by 4, FSU beat UF by 24.



1) The ACC is better than the Big East, even with the addition of TCU. The ACC likely jumps the Big 12-2 and well looking out how the Big 10 has done in bowl games, I'd give the ACC the nod over them to.

You can't use that argument. UCF isn't a team that is going to blow you out. They rely on great defense and a solid running game. An I don't think you want to use that argument. Because based on that logic. JMU beat Virginia Tech so they are better. Virginia Tech beat Florida State so they are better. Thus, JMU is better than FSU.

wonderbredd24
01-01-2011, 10:27 PM
1) The ACC is better than the Big East, even with the addition of TCU. The ACC likely jumps the Big 12-2 and well looking out how the Big 10 has done in bowl games, I'd give the ACC the nod over them to.
TCU would monkey stomp any team from the ACC.

As for the ACC over the Big Ten? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahah ahahahahahaaha

BigJohn98
01-01-2011, 10:29 PM
That was without AJ Green and in one of Aaron Murry's first starts. And if Georgia sucks for losing to Colorada then Virginia Tech must really suck for losing to JMU and what does that say about FSU being dominated by the Hokies?

Nope. Green played against Colorado.

Virginia Tech had just lost an emotional game five days earlier to Boise State. Do you really think they wanted to play James Madison?

And Tyrod Taylor beat us. Plain and simple.

jrdrylie
01-01-2011, 10:30 PM
And Mass Nole using your logic. Both FSU and UCF lost to NC Dtats by a field goal so they are equal.

MassNole
01-01-2011, 10:30 PM
You can't use that argument. UCF isn't a team that is going to blow you out. They rely on great defense and a solid running game. An I don't think you want to use that argument. Because based on that logic. JMU beat Virginia Tech so they are better. Virginia Tech beat Florida State so they are better. Thus, JMU is better than FSU.
Georgia was the third place team in the SEC East, they lost to UF and SC, whom FSU beat by a combined 33 points. As such holding out a win against UGA does nothing when trying to compare them to FSU as FSU beat better teams more handily.

BigJohn98
01-01-2011, 10:30 PM
TCU would monkey stomp any team from the ACC.

As for the ACC over the Big Ten? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahah ahahahahahaaha

Yeah, the Big 10 sure put on some stellar displays today...

jrdrylie
01-01-2011, 10:32 PM
Nope. Green played against Colorado.

Virginia Tech had just lost an emotional game five days earlier to Boise State. Do you really think they wanted to play James Madison?

And Tyrod Taylor beat us. Plain and simple.

My bad. I thought Colorado was their third game.

wonderbredd24
01-01-2011, 10:33 PM
Yeah, the Big 10 sure put on some stellar displays today...
Did the ACC play today? Oh, that's right. They get all of their bowling done before New Year's aside from their pity in the Orange Bowl, where Stanford will destroy them.

It's a shame every single Bowl game is a road game for the Big Ten. Come up North and play... probably look a lot like Ohio State-Miami did.

jrdrylie
01-01-2011, 10:35 PM
Georgia was the third place team in the SEC East, they lost to UF and SC, whom FSU beat by a combined 33 points. As such holding out a win against UGA does nothing when trying to compare them to FSU as FSU beat better teams more handily.

Like I said if isn't UCF's style to blow teams out. And if you use common opponents like this, then logic says you are worse than James Madison.

MassNole
01-01-2011, 10:36 PM
TCU would monkey stomp any team from the ACC.

As for the ACC over the Big Ten? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahah ahahahahahaaha
0-5 with an average score of 41-20 in today's games really helps back that up. Nice 2-5 bowl record thus far, I must say. And then you have tOSU having to convince the NCAA to let them use ineligible players vs. Arkansas to maybe salvage something.

MassNole
01-01-2011, 10:36 PM
Did the ACC play today? Oh, that's right. They get all of their bowling done before New Year's aside from their pity in the Orange Bowl, where Stanford will destroy them.

It's a shame every single Bowl game is a road game for the Big Ten. Come up North and play... probably look a lot like Ohio State-Miami did.
FSU has gone up north, check out the records to see how it went (Hint, not good for the Big 10 teams).

wonderbredd24
01-01-2011, 10:39 PM
0-5 with an average score of 41-20 in today's games really helps back that up. Nice 2-5 bowl record thus far, I must say. And then you have tOSU having to convince the NCAA to let them use ineligible players vs. Arkansas to maybe salvage something.
You're right. They would have been much better off having an enormous academic scandal when it comes to getting the kids into the school, people taking tests for them, so on and so forth. So bad in fact that Antonio Cromartie was admitted to the school despite being illiterate. Bravo, Seminoles. Bravo.

BigJohn98
01-01-2011, 10:41 PM
Did the ACC play today? Oh, that's right. They get all of their bowling done before New Year's aside from their pity in the Orange Bowl, where Stanford will destroy them.

It's a shame every single Bowl game is a road game for the Big Ten. Come up North and play... probably look a lot like Ohio State-Miami did.

Arkansas will rape Ohio State.

Tyrod Taylor will make Stanford's D look silly.

We'll play anyone, anywhere.

MassNole
01-01-2011, 10:46 PM
You're right. They would have been much better off having an enormous academic scandal when it comes to getting the kids into the school, people taking tests for them, so on and so forth. So bad in fact that Antonio Cromartie was admitted to the school despite being illiterate. Bravo, Seminoles. Bravo.
The academic scandal involved a TA giving a player a copy of a test to an online class that the rest of the school had access to. That online class was a problem for the university, not the just the student athletes, who made up a small, small portion of the total students involved. Something the media left out of their reports.

As for the Cromartie thing, FSU admits the students who get by the NCAA Clearinghouse. Cromartie got by that, however he did that was between him, Lincoln HS (who I think it would be fair to raise questions about), and the NCAA. Besides if he didn't go to FSU he had plenty of other options as the USA Today HS DPOTY.

wonderbredd24
01-01-2011, 10:48 PM
We'll play anyone, anywhere.

You said it. Samford, Jacksonville State, Western Carolina, Chattanooga, UAB, Troy, Rice, Western Michigan, and Citadel.

FSU takes on all comers.

bearsfan_51
01-01-2011, 11:01 PM
I'm a B1G fan, but the differences between the two leagues in the last few years is pretty minimal.

It's honestly a silly argument. There's the SEC and there's everyone else. It'll be like that until someone else wins a national title.

Giantsfan1080
01-01-2011, 11:05 PM
SEC has won 6 BCS championships. The Big 12 has two. The other 4 AQ's have one each.

jballa838
01-01-2011, 11:54 PM
As for recruits wanting to come to the schools the #1 class in the country will come down to FSU or Alabama (I'd guess FSU #1 in ESPN, Bama #1 in Rivals)
surprised nobody called you out on this.

A) ESPN and Rivals are about as east coast biased as you can possibly get, nobody in the nation can stand up with Texas' class, especially sinced they signed Westerman. Texas will hold on to the #1 spot on ESPN and Scout.

B) Recuiting class rankings mean little to nothing. It's the same teams on the top every year because the ranking services base their opinions on what offers a player has, not as much on the field hype, which is why they have so many busts in the top 20 of their overall prospects.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
01-02-2011, 02:21 AM
Central Florida is the "best" team in Florida right now.

Everyone goes through ups and downs. Florida is the best coaching job in the country right this second. That could change in a year or few. Florida State appears to be on their way back up. Miami could be get back there at some point.

There is enough talent in Florida and Texas to support 2 dominant teams at a time... the question is which 2 programs are going to get most of it.

Central and South Florida are enormous universities in big population centers. UCF is in Orlando and South Florida is in that Tampa area.

UCF? Are you kidding? No way in hell is UCF better than FSU.

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 02:37 AM
This thread is filled with so much hate from Massnole...

descendency
01-02-2011, 07:58 AM
Central Florida is the "best" team in Florida right now.

LOL. No.

The NC State games were NC State @ UCF and FSU @ NC State

purely using the horrific logic of common games,

FSU:
1. Lost by less
2. Played on the road instead of at home.
3. Lost the game by choking. (Thank you Mr Ponder.)

FSU > UCF.

-----

You're right. They would have been much better off having an enormous academic scandal when it comes to getting the kids into the school, people taking tests for them, so on and so forth. So bad in fact that Antonio Cromartie was admitted to the school despite being illiterate. Bravo, Seminoles. Bravo.

Smart people don't go to FSU. Myron Rolle was secretly taking classes somewhere else. It's the fake boob capital of the east coast (and probably the "bad" fake boob capital of the world)


--------

1) The ACC is better than the Big East, even with the addition of TCU. The ACC likely jumps the Big 12-2 and well looking out how the Big 10 has done in bowl games, I'd give the ACC the nod over them to.

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/Rodzilla109/not-sure-if-serious.jpg

RealityCheck
01-02-2011, 08:11 AM
UCF and USF are the best teams in the state of Florida, hands down. People just don't want to admit it because they play in smaller conferences.

No love for FIU in this thread... They just had their first winning season ever.

jrdrylie
01-02-2011, 08:22 AM
UCF and USF are the best teams in the state of Florida, hands down. People just don't want to admit it because they play in smaller conferences.

No love for FIU in this thread... They just had their first winning season ever.

USF isn't that good. They are decent but they are probably fourth in the state right now. Plus they lose some credibility by refusing to play UCF. Scared to lose I suppose. I mentioned FIU earlier. They are currently upgrading their stadium, they are a large school, and are located in a great talent pool. If they can keep their coach from leaving they could dominate the Sun Belt and eventually get invited into a better conference.

jrdrylie
01-02-2011, 08:29 AM
UCF? Are you kidding? No way in hell is UCF better than FSU.

Based on what? People on here arguing that FSU are only usinv the fuzzy logic that since FSU beat South Carolina and Floridz by more than UCF beat Georgia, they are automatically better. They completely ignore the fact that UCF has a Bette record, played their only common opponent about the same, isn't a team that is designed to blow teams out, and based on the logic they use they would also have to say FSU is worse than james Madison.

MassNole
01-02-2011, 09:29 AM
Based on what? People on here arguing that FSU are only usinv the fuzzy logic that since FSU beat South Carolina and Floridz by more than UCF beat Georgia, they are automatically better. They completely ignore the fact that UCF has a Bette record, played their only common opponent about the same, isn't a team that is designed to blow teams out, and based on the logic they use they would also have to say FSU is worse than james Madison.
Let FSU play UCF's schedule and at worst they go 13-1.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
01-02-2011, 09:47 AM
Let FSU play UCF's schedule and at worst they go 13-1.

They would lose to NC State again and probably drop another.

MassNole
01-02-2011, 10:22 AM
They would lose to NC State again and probably drop another.
I am curious which CUSA team you think beats FSU, as KSU certainly wouldn't.

Now if you put UCF against FSU's schedule, they likely lose to Oklahoma, VaTech, Florida, South Carolina, N.C. State, and UNC; they would also struggle to beat and easily could lose to Clemson, Maryland, and Boston College. So at best a record of 8-6 at worst 5-9.

BuddyCHRIST
01-02-2011, 11:28 AM
You said it. Samford, Jacksonville State, Western Carolina, Chattanooga, UAB, Troy, Rice, Western Michigan, and Citadel.

FSU takes on all comers.

Your Ignorant

How about playing UF every year, throwing in Oklahoma, Alabama, BYU, USF? No one in the country has played a comparable OOC schedule over the past 20 years.

Everyone schedules cupcakes, the difference is some schools do it for 4 games.

Halsey
01-02-2011, 11:39 AM
lol @ UCF being the current best program in Florida. Don't overreact to a win in the 'Whocares.com Toilet Bowl' vs the worst UGA team in 20 years.

BigJohn98
01-02-2011, 11:50 AM
Jesus, some of you are on crack if you think UCF and USF are the best teams in the state.

lowlife
01-02-2011, 12:00 PM
I think only one poster legitimately thinks UCF > FSU while the other one used ghost quotations... since no one seemed to notice. Masterful trolling sir.

The concentration of homerism in this thread... so ******* rich.

BigJohn98
01-02-2011, 12:03 PM
You said it. Samford, Jacksonville State, Western Carolina, Chattanooga, UAB, Troy, Rice, Western Michigan, and Citadel.

FSU takes on all comers.

Funny that a Big 10 fan makes a comment like this. I don't see anyone other than Ohio State scheduling big time caliber teams like Oklahoma, Florida, Or Alabama.

You must have forgotten that playing anyone anywhere is what put FSU on the map. In the 80s, we won at Nebraska, where NOBODY won, at Michigan State, etc. just to name a few. In 1991 we went into the Big House and destroyed Michigan. That was one of many tough OOC games we played. Good try though.

MassNole
01-02-2011, 12:06 PM
Funny that a Big 10 fan makes a comment like this. I don't see anyone other than Ohio State scheduling big time caliber teams like Oklahoma, Florida, Or Alabama.

You must have forgotten that playing anyone anywhere is what put FSU on the map. In the 80s, we won at Nebraska, where NOBODY won, at Michigan State, etc. just to name a few. In 1991 we went into the Big House and destroyed Michigan. That was one of many tough OOC games we played. Good try though.
FSU is also 3-0 all-time vs. the Ohio State.

superman8456
01-02-2011, 12:22 PM
Funny that a Big 10 fan makes a comment like this. I don't see anyone other than Ohio State scheduling big time caliber teams like Oklahoma, Florida, Or Alabama.



Penn State played Alabama and Florida this season. Valiant effort, sir.

bearsfan_51
01-02-2011, 01:17 PM
And Minnesota played USC. And Iowa played Arizona. And Wisconsin played Arizona State. And half the Big Ten plays Notre Dame.

BigJohn98
01-02-2011, 01:18 PM
And Minnesota played USC. And Iowa played Arizona. And Wisconsin played Arizona State. And half the Big Ten plays Notre Dame.

Yeah, all those teams are the caliber of Alabama, Florida, and Oklahoma.

bearsfan_51
01-02-2011, 01:23 PM
When Minnesota scheduled USC they were the best program in the nation. I don't see the Big Ten as doing any more or less ducking than any other program.

But if you'd like to go on some tangent about how Florida State played all-comers in the 1960's, go ahead. I liked it better when FSU sucked and y'all hid in corners with your heads buried.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
01-02-2011, 01:27 PM
Yeah, all those teams are the caliber of Alabama, Florida, and Oklahoma.

When was the last time florida played an OOC game not in the state of florida?

BigJohn98
01-02-2011, 01:55 PM
When was the last time florida played an OOC game not in the state of florida?

1990 I believe. Why?

Complex
01-02-2011, 02:10 PM
And Minnesota played USC. And Iowa played Arizona. And Wisconsin played Arizona State. And half the Big Ten plays Notre Dame.

Really Notre Dame OMG tough match up

bearsfan_51
01-02-2011, 02:29 PM
Really Notre Dame OMG tough match up
The Notre Dame that stomped Miami and Utah this year.

nrk
01-02-2011, 03:10 PM
Your Ignorant

How about playing UF every year, throwing in Oklahoma, Alabama, BYU, USF? No one in the country has played a comparable OOC schedule over the past 20 years.

Everyone schedules cupcakes, the difference is some schools do it for 4 games.

While I agree with you that FSU has had tough OOC opponents, that comment is just outlandish. Oklahoma has scheduled all those teams (minus themselves, add FSU) and USF, but also Oregon, Miami, TCU, and some others these past years. I'm sure there are plenty of other schools that have had just as tough OOC schedules.

bearsfan_51
01-02-2011, 03:13 PM
No, Florida State is obviously the best and most important at everything. If you don't know that Your Ignorant.

MassNole
01-02-2011, 03:31 PM
Well FSU is currently the best program in the state and has a big leg up on Florida and gigantic leg up on Miami in this round of the rebuilding process. So excuse us if FSU fans take offense to being told UCF is a better team right now or standing up for our team when our OOC schedule gets pathetically misrepresented.

MassNole
01-02-2011, 03:33 PM
The Notre Dame that stomped Miami and Utah this year.
No one here is holding Miami out as good right now when they are perhaps the 5th or 6th best program in the state. Really trumpeting a victory over them is almost as bad as trumpeting a victory of Georgia.

MassNole
01-02-2011, 03:41 PM
When Minnesota scheduled USC they were the best program in the nation. I don't see the Big Ten as doing any more or less ducking than any other program.

But if you'd like to go on some tangent about how Florida State played all-comers in the 1960's, go ahead. I liked it better when FSU sucked and y'all hid in corners with your heads buried.

Actually it was more USC scheduled Minnesota as any easy game vs. a BCS team, like when they scheduled Virginia.

surprised nobody called you out on this.

A) ESPN and Rivals are about as east coast biased as you can possibly get, nobody in the nation can stand up with Texas' class, especially sinced they signed Westerman. Texas will hold on to the #1 spot on ESPN and Scout.

B) Recuiting class rankings mean little to nothing. It's the same teams on the top every year because the ranking services base their opinions on what offers a player has, not as much on the field hype, which is why they have so many busts in the top 20 of their overall prospects.

ESPN and Rivals are east coast biased? The same Rivals that has had multiple west coast players as 5*s over the years?

ESPN I'll admit does give favoritism to the Southeast, but well when teams comprised from players from that region keep winning MNCs, that probably is an indication that is where the elite talent is this season.

As for closing out, my understanding is that Texas is done for this cycle with maybe a couple of players to add. Whereas Bama will close out with some 5*'s on ESPN and FSU looks to close out well as well with the likes of Tony Steward and Nick O'Leary to name a couple. FSU will end up with the largest number of the ESPNU 150 barring some very, very unforeseen events taking place. So really, how can no class touch Texas when Bama and FSU aren't done and nipping at their heels.

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 03:47 PM
Well FSU is currently the best program in the state and has a big leg up on Florida and gigantic leg up on Miami in this round of the rebuilding process. So excuse us if FSU fans take offense to being told UCF is a better team right now or standing up for our team when our OOC schedule gets pathetically misrepresented.

What in your right ******* mind makes you think that they have a big leg up on Florida? UF has 2 NC's in the last 5 years, when was the last time FSU even played for one? Are you kidding me?

Oh because they had a bad season and they'll have a new HC? Well....i might be one of the only ones, but i think this UF team is gonna be scary, really quick. Muschamp and Weiss are both very proven recruiters and they are both great at coaching their sides of the ball.

UF>FSU

MassNole
01-02-2011, 03:53 PM
What in your right ******* mind makes you think that they have a big leg up on Florida? UF has 2 NC's in the last 5 years, when was the last time FSU even played for one? Are you kidding me?

Oh because they had a bad season and they'll have a new HC? Well....i might be one of the only ones, but i think this UF team is gonna be scary, really quick. Muschamp and Weiss are both very proven recruiters and they are both great at coaching their sides of the ball.

UF>FSU
Funny, Jimbo Fisher is also a proven recruiter and Mark Stoops is a helluva defensive coach. When FSU is coming off a blowout win and will be bringing in a better class in 2011 and already has a few elite commitments for 2012 I think it's more than fair to say they are ahead of Florida right now.

Sorry if Charlie Weis, who basically inflated stats by beating up bad teams in Notre Dame's weak schedule and never actually developed a good NFL player while at Notre Dame doesn't scare me as a FSU fan. And perhaps he is a good recruiter according to those who overinflated his commitments rankings and talent, but the truth was in the pudding on the field where he assembled teams not capable of beating Navy.

LizardState
01-02-2011, 03:54 PM
When was the last time florida played an OOC game not in the state of florida?

(waves hand in air wildly) I know !!! I know the answer!! The Gators scheduled mighty Charleston Southern to open the 09 season, I think.

Massnole is right though in his homerism assertion, FSU is the best program in the state right now based on what I saw in their 2010 finish & bowl game, couple that with their A+ (so far) recruiting class & Jimbo has a winnah.

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 03:58 PM
Funny, Jimbo Fisher is also a proven recruiter and Mark Stoops is a helluva defensive coach. When FSU is coming off a blowout win and will be bringing in a better class in 2011 and already has a few elite commitments for 2012 I think it's more than fair to say they are ahead of Florida right now.

Sorry if Charlie Weis, who basically inflated stats by beating up bad teams in Notre Dame's weak schedule and never actually developed a good NFL player while at Notre Dame doesn't scare me as a FSU fan. And perhaps he is a good recruiter according to those who overinflated his commitments rankings and talent, but the truth was in the pudding on the field where he assembled teams not capable of beating Navy.

Not one person will say that Weiss is a good HC, but I could bet you that anyone on this board would love to have him as their teams OC, because he is one of the best in the business....at any level.

Put together a few good seasons in a row before you assume that FSU is on the top of college football again.

Florida has a down year after the loss of arguably the G.O.A.T. of college football, and several other stars and now they are FSU's doormat? give me a ****** break.

BigJohn98
01-02-2011, 04:09 PM
Not one person will say that Weiss is a good HC, but I could bet you that anyone on this board would love to have him as their teams OC, because he is one of the best in the business....at any level.

Put together a few good seasons in a row before you assume that FSU is on the top of college football again.

Florida has a down year after the loss of arguably the G.O.A.T. of college football, and several other stars and now they are FSU's doormat? give me a ****** break.

Where is he saying that we're on top of college football? He's saying that we are currently, as of right now, the best team in the state. I don't know why that's so hard to believe.

proshoota25
01-02-2011, 04:18 PM
how can u say the FSU has the best program in the state when this time last year Florida pulled off the most insane recruiting class in recent memory? Your talking like UF has no future and FSU is the only good thing in Florida, but UF has plenty of talent on par wit FSU and will be right there with him. Yes, FSU has a better class this year, but they should with the UF coaching change. Watch out next year, with both Muschamp and Weis getting in all top recruits.

proshoota25
01-02-2011, 04:20 PM
And dont even say that the guys they recruited last year wont fit the scheme. Talent is talent in college football, and most of those recruits were on defense anyway, where they will find a way to make the most of those guys

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 04:20 PM
Where is he saying that we're on top of college football? He's saying that we are currently, as of right now, the best team in the state. I don't know why that's so hard to believe.

The way he sucks their dick, he talks like they are on the top of college football.

Considering this is FSU's first 10 win season since 2003? and Florida has been one of the most dominant football programs over the last 5 years.....i dont see how FSU is the top team in Florida.

Till this year, FSU hadnt beat UF since 2003? with the following scores being the results of those games

2004 Florida W - 20-13
2005 Florida W - 34-7
2006 Florida W - 21-14
2007 Florida W - 45-12
2008 Florida W - 45-15
2009 Florida W - 37-10

Programs like UF dont rebuild, they reload. its expected to have a down year after losing the talent they lost. UF will be fine.

UF>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FSU

MassNole
01-02-2011, 04:21 PM
how can u say the FSU has the best program in the state when this time last year Florida pulled off the most insane recruiting class in recent memory? Your talking like UF has no future and FSU is the only good thing in Florida, but UF has plenty of talent on par wit FSU and will be right there with him. Yes, FSU has a better class this year, but they should with the UF coaching change. Watch out next year, with both Muschamp and Weis getting in all top recruits.
You realize several players from that class are already gone and more will follow in a coaching regime change?

proshoota25
01-02-2011, 04:21 PM
You realize several players from that class are already gone and more will follow in a coaching regime change?

lmao look at what i said below........ and they still had plenty of talent.... much better than the talent FSU brought in last year, and that was still a good class

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 04:23 PM
You realize several players from that class are already gone and more will follow in a coaching regime change?

You realize all of these players you are bringing on in this so called "Super class" are all going to be freshman, and most probably wont make an impact for another year or 2?

You can brag about this class all you want, but until they do something....stop hyping it up.

MassNole
01-02-2011, 04:27 PM
The way he sucks their dick, he talks like they are on the top of college football.

Considering this is FSU's first 10 win season since 2003? and Florida has been one of the most dominant football programs over the last 5 years.....i dont see how FSU is the top team in Florida.

Till this year, FSU hadnt beat UF since 2003? with the following scores being the results of those games

2004 Florida W - 20-13
2005 Florida W - 34-7
2006 Florida W - 21-14
2007 Florida W - 45-12
2008 Florida W - 45-15
2009 Florida W - 37-10

Programs like UF dont rebuild, they reload. its expected to have a down year after losing the talent they lost. UF will be fine.

UF>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FSU
So basically, Urban Meyer, who is now gone, beat up on Bobby Bowden and his staff of friends and cronies, who are also now all gone and that history should be used against FSU now. The coaching staff and players responsible for most of those games are now gone on each side. FSU is now coming off a 24 point win where it brings back nearly an entire defense and replaces the QB with the player the Seminole Nation has been waiting to take over since he committed.

But I'm sure you'll say Manuel sucks, even though he's 2-0 in bowl games as a backup.

proshoota25
01-02-2011, 04:29 PM
So basically, Urban Meyer, who is now gone, beat up on Bobby Bowden and his staff of friends and cronies, who are also now all gone and that history should be used against FSU now. The coaching staff and players responsible for most of those games are now gone on each side. FSU is now coming off a 24 point win where it brings back nearly an entire defense and replaces the QB with the player the Seminole Nation has been waiting to take over since he committed.

But I'm sure you'll say Manuel sucks, even though he's 2-0 in bowl games as a backup.

and yet just cuz of one game this year, your ready to crown FSU king of florida? give me a break

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 04:30 PM
So basically, Urban Meyer, who is now gone, beat up on Bobby Bowden and his staff of friends and cronies, who are also now all gone and that history should be used against FSU now. The coaching staff and players responsible for most of those games are now gone on each side. FSU is now coming off a 24 point win where it brings back nearly an entire defense and replaces the QB with the player the Seminole Nation has been waiting to take over since he committed.

But I'm sure you'll say Manuel sucks, even though he's 2-0 in bowl games as a backup.

Ive never said a word about Manuel. Ive never said that i dont like FSU, but for anyone to think that UF isnt still the top program in the state of Florida is ridiculous.

2 NC's in the last 5 years doesnt come by mistake, they still have boat loads of talent and Muschamp and co. will only bring in more.

bearsfan_51
01-02-2011, 04:31 PM
I'm willing to accept that Florida State is in the best shape right now in the state of Florida.

I would also add that if you can't even win the ACC, who ******* cares.

MassNole
01-02-2011, 04:38 PM
You realize all of these players you are bringing on in this so called "Super class" are all going to be freshman, and most probably wont make an impact for another year or 2?

You can brag about this class all you want, but until they do something....stop hyping it up.
Actually 2 of the jewels of the class are stud Juco kids who are expected to step right in and replace 2 of seniors FSU loses and some of the others are expected to play immediately. This season a lot of true freshmen played for FSU which didn't actually include Christian Green.

The biggest upgrade will be at LB where 5* recruits Christian Jones and Jeff Luc replace Kendall Smith and Mister Alexander. I'd also expect 5* S Karlos Williams to see a lot of time over Terrance Parks at FS.

So basically, FSU doesn't need this class to come in and start, except for the Jucos and possible #1 TE Nick O'Leary.

BigJohn98
01-02-2011, 04:39 PM
how can u say the FSU has the best program in the state when this time last year Florida pulled off the most insane recruiting class in recent memory? Your talking like UF has no future and FSU is the only good thing in Florida, but UF has plenty of talent on par wit FSU and will be right there with him. Yes, FSU has a better class this year, but they should with the UF coaching change. Watch out next year, with both Muschamp and Weis getting in all top recruits.

Because we do. Last year's recruiting class has nothing to do with right now.

Why is this so hard to grasp? We whooped our two rivals this year. We have a ton of starters returning with a year more of experience now. We have the best coaching staff and recruiters in the state right now. And we have a top three class coming in now full of insane talent.

Florida has a head coach who hasn't proven anything. They don't have a QB. Everything in Florida happens in cycles. Florida had their time at the top. As of now, FSU is the top school in the state.

Sniper
01-02-2011, 04:43 PM
And we have a top three class coming in now full of insane talent.

Let's not act like it's the first time in recent memory that FSU landed a highly-touted class. The results for all that talent were badly underwhelming.

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 04:43 PM
We have the best coaching staff and recruiters in the state right now.

Florida had their time at the top. As of now, FSU is the top school in the state.

You have the best recruiters in the state? Muschamp and Weiss have both been part of staffs that have brought in multiple top classes within the last few years, so i dont know if you have the edge on that.....That is not taking anything away from you guys.

Florida HAD their time? Florida has won 2 NC's in the last 5 years and won the sugar bowl last year, they have one down year and now their time is out? lol.

Wow....

Keep in mind, that i am neither an UF or an FSU fan....just a college football guy.

Sniper
01-02-2011, 04:44 PM
Weis, not Weiss.

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 04:45 PM
Weis, not Weiss.

thank you for the correction sir.

BigJohn98
01-02-2011, 04:45 PM
Let's not act like it's the first time in recent memory that FSU landed a highly-touted class. The results for all that talent were badly underwhelming.

That's on the coaching. Now we have the coaching to develop that talent.

jballa838
01-02-2011, 04:46 PM
Last time I checked, UF has the best QB in the state, and his name is Trey Burton.

proshoota25
01-02-2011, 04:46 PM
AND how can you be king if you have won one game out of the last 6 to your top rival? really? how can that be possible? i admit FSU is in much better shape now, but u guys r acting like UF is gunna go down the drain. UF is gunna promote being THE PIPELINE to the NFL, and thats going to attract all the top players.

proshoota25
01-02-2011, 04:46 PM
Last time I checked, UF has the best QB in the state, and his name is Trey Burton.

UF has the #1 QB recruit in the COUNTRY coming in as well

BigJohn98
01-02-2011, 04:48 PM
Last time I checked, UF has the best QB in the state, and his name is Trey Burton.

I'm sorry but hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

If he's the best QB in the state, why were they running a three QB system? Burton is a good athlete. Below Average QB.

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 04:50 PM
I'm sorry but hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

If he's the best QB in the state, why were they running a three QB system? Burton is a good athlete. Below Average QB.

He was a freshman....

...and while you guys are tootin the horns of your recruiting class, UF is also bringing in the number 1 QB recruit in the nation this year.

Sniper
01-02-2011, 04:51 PM
He was a freshman....

...and while you guys are tootin the horns of your recruiting class, UF is also bringing in the number 1 QB recruit in the nation this year.

Driskel is badly overrated.

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 04:51 PM
Driskel is badly overrated.

He looks pretty nasty in all the film ive seen.

jballa838
01-02-2011, 04:52 PM
I'm sorry but hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

If he's the best QB in the state, why were they running a three QB system? Burton is a good athlete. Below Average QB.
Probably because he's 18 years old. And coaches want to protect their valuable investments. Case in point, BYU had Riley Nelson and Jake Heaps two-platooned so they wouldn't have their golden recruit (#1 QB in the country) injured before the valuable games in their schedule. Once Nelson got hurt, Heaps exploded. He would not of been as good down the stretch had he of been full time since day one. With Ponder graduating and Jacory Harris' recent play, there is no reason to believe that any QB in the state is better than Burton. Not even ya boy, EJ Manuel.

MassNole
01-02-2011, 04:53 PM
Let's not act like it's the first time in recent memory that FSU landed a highly-touted class. The results for all that talent were badly underwhelming.

The difference here is with the coaching and improvement in recruiting rankings. There was a time when Rivals bumped players for going to FSU or having an offer from FSU, probably the best example of this is Budd Thacker. He wasn't a bad player, but never should have been more than a situational backup, he went from being a 2* when committed to VaTech to a 4* when he committed to FSU. Not to mention a lot of times players that lead to the ranking didn't even qualify, such as Dishon Platt and Callahan Bright. Others lacked work ethic (something Fisher would either change or cut them for) such as Fred Rouse and Xavier Lee.

Running Backs comprised a big number of our busts, Fisher has fixed that by hiring Eddie Gran who is considered one of the elite RB Coaches in the business.

You have the best recruiters in the state? Muschamp and Weiss have both been part of staffs that have brought in multiple top classes within the last few years, so i dont know if you have the edge on that.....That is not taking anything away from you guys.

Jimbo Fisher has always been a helluva recruiter, dating back to his time at LSU. Eddie Gran and James Coley are also former Recruiter of the Year candidates, not to mention Lawrence Dawsey (who was responsible for bringing Ryan Perrilloux to LSU).

Sniper
01-02-2011, 04:53 PM
He looks pretty nasty in all the film ive seen.

James Wilder will eat him.

jballa838
01-02-2011, 04:54 PM
He looks pretty nasty in all the film ive seen.
I agree there, but Braxton Miller is the #1 in my eyes, with Wittek as the #1 pro-style QB.

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 04:56 PM
Jimbo Fisher has always been a helluva recruiter, dating back to his time at LSU. Eddie Gran and James Coley are also former Recruiter of the Year candidates, not to mention Lawrence Dawsey (who was responsible for bringing Ryan Perrilloux to LSU).

Will Muschamp has been a helluva recruiter since his time at LSU, on the same staff. Hes been a helluva recruiter at Auburn, and Texas as well.

Weis has been a helluva recruiter since he stepped into the college game, and he will likely get BETTER talent at UF than he did at ND.

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 04:57 PM
I agree there, but Braxton Miller is the #1 in my eyes, with Wittek as the #1 pro-style QB.

Im very fond of Miller as well, and he is prolly my number 1 as well....but i was just throwin that out there for them.

BigJohn98
01-02-2011, 04:58 PM
Probably because he's 18 years old. And coaches want to protect their valuable investments. Case in point, BYU had Riley Nelson and Jake Heaps two-platooned so they wouldn't have their golden recruit (#1 QB in the country) injured before the valuable games in their schedule. Once Nelson got hurt, Heaps exploded. He would not of been as good down the stretch had he of been full time since day one. With Ponder graduating and Jacory Harris' recent play, there is no reason to believe that any QB in the state is better than Burton. Not even ya boy, EJ Manuel.

No, they ran a 3 QB system because Brantley, Reed, and Burton are terrible QBs. And no, Burton is not better than EJ Manuel.

BigJohn98
01-02-2011, 04:59 PM
James Wilder will eat him.

Wilder is playing running back.

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 05:00 PM
No, they ran a 3 QB system because Brantley, Reed, and Burton are terrible QBs. And no, Burton is not better than EJ Manuel.

Oh yeah, they just got to UF by mistake....2 of them being freshman dont mean anything, they are just terrible.

Sniper
01-02-2011, 05:00 PM
No, they ran a 3 QB system because Brantley, Reed, and Burton are terrible QBs. And no, Burton is not better than EJ Manuel.

E.J. Manuel shits on Trey Burton. I like that jballa can tell that Burton is a better QB with Burton's whopping six passing attempts this year. I guess I can't judge Burton by his box scores, either.

jballa838
01-02-2011, 05:01 PM
No, they ran a 3 QB system because Brantley, Reed, and Burton are terrible QBs. And no, Burton is not better than EJ Manuel.
You're right. EJ Manuels 6:10 career TD:INT ratio has me all giddy.

Sniper
01-02-2011, 05:02 PM
Wilder is playing running back.

My bad then. I thought he was going to play LB. Switch that to "Tank Carradine will eat him".

Oh yeah, they just got to UF by mistake....2 of them being freshman dont mean anything, they are just terrible.

John Brantley is atrocious. How or why he got to UF is irrelevant. You can't really tell if Burton is a good passer because he only threw it six times this year. Reed's not much of a thrower.

Sniper
01-02-2011, 05:02 PM
You're right. EJ Manuels 6:10 career TD:INT ratio has me all giddy.

Almost as much as Trey Burton's six attempts do and 0:1 TD:INT ratio do?

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2011, 05:05 PM
There is no clear cut number 1 QB in the state right now from what i have seen. E.J. Manuel hasnt impressed me a great deal when he plays but he has shown promise, i think Burton can be a potential star, Jacory Harris....is well not worth talking about anymore...

jballa838
01-02-2011, 05:05 PM
E.J. Manuel shits on Trey Burton. I like that jballa can tell that Burton is a better QB with Burton's whopping six passing attempts this year. I guess I can't judge Burton by his box scores, either.
He's a playmaker with the ball in his hands.

Sniper
01-02-2011, 05:06 PM
He's a playmaker with the ball in his hands.

So that makes him a good all-purpose threat. It doesn't make him a good QB.

jballa838
01-02-2011, 05:07 PM
My bad then. I thought he was going to play LB. Switch that to "Tank Carradine will eat him".

They got Wilder by telling him he would be a RB, not a LB for them. He wanted to play RB, they told him what he wanted to hear, but all in all I'm pretty sure they will go back on their word and he'll be a great LB.

BigJohn98
01-02-2011, 05:11 PM
They got Wilder by telling him he would be a RB, not a LB for them. He wanted to play RB, they told him what he wanted to hear, but all in all I'm pretty sure they will go back on their word and he'll be a great LB.

Umm...no. We recruited him as a RUNNING BACK so he could PLAY RUNNING BACK. Jimbo likes big backs in his offense. He'll be playing running back.

Sniper
01-02-2011, 05:14 PM
How did Jeff Luc look this year?

jballa838
01-02-2011, 05:22 PM
Umm...no. We recruited him as a RUNNING BACK so he could PLAY RUNNING BACK. Jimbo likes big backs in his offense. He'll be playing running back.
if you play him at RB and not LB, you are nuts. well, not you personally.

BigJohn98
01-02-2011, 05:33 PM
How did Jeff Luc look this year?

I didn't see him too much, so I honestly couldn't tell you. He's gotta get more flexible. He's too damn stiff.

MassNole
01-02-2011, 07:47 PM
How did Jeff Luc look this year?
He didn't get as many reps as Christian Jones did nor did he stand out on special teams like Telvin Smith did, but I'd expect him to start or at least split snaps evenly at MLB in 2011.

Complex
01-04-2011, 01:47 AM
The Notre Dame that stomped Miami and Utah this year.

OMG no way they beat Miami your right Notre Dame is a powerhouse