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kalbears13
01-02-2011, 03:26 PM
With the season over and a crushing loss to the Steelers, it is evident that the Browns need major help...well everywhere, but definitely in the defensive front 7.

STsACE
01-02-2011, 06:06 PM
Linebackers, DEs please.........

RT as well............

Find a #1 WR in FA, hopefully.

Of course, it all depends on what happens with Holmgren and Mangini's Monday meeting. We'll see what direction we go before we start saying what is the most glaring need in the draft.

MattyFos
01-02-2011, 07:23 PM
I thnk the 34 should be done away with. We've been trying it for what 6 years? That being said if we switch to a 43, we only need 5 of the front 7. Lol. Rogers is a beast in the 43. I would like to draft Prince Amukamara in the first. We can get a real good receiver in the second. Need a right tackle, maybe in the third.

kalbears13
01-02-2011, 11:24 PM
So with the loss today, the Browns are picking 6th.

Yay for progress!

MattyFos
01-03-2011, 08:19 AM
Won't there be a coin flip between 5th and 6th with the Cardinals?

kalbears13
01-03-2011, 12:42 PM
Won't there be a coin flip between 5th and 6th with the Cardinals?

I think it goes SOS, divisional record and then coin flip.

MattyFos
01-03-2011, 02:05 PM
Gotcha!
Ok, now that Mangini is out. Who are you hoping H&H bring in to coach. There's a ton of Holmgren disciples out there.
Gruden
Mooch
Mornhinweg
Other coaches
Fox
Cowher
Fisher
I'm sure I'm missing others. In his presser Holmgren said that "money isn't an option" when it comes to getting the HC. So any of those coaches are, theoretically, possible. I wish we could get Mornhinweg to be OC. But it's not possible, because it'd be a lateral move. I trust Holmgren to make the right decision. I would like to see McDaniels in as OC. But I don't think H&H would bring in a guy that neither of them are familiar with.
I have a feeling it'll be Mornhinweg as HC. He's from Holmgren's tree and was with Heckert in Philly. It makes too much sense to not happen.

In Holmgren we trust!

MattyFos
01-03-2011, 02:06 PM
I would love Jim Zorn to come in and work with McCoy

Brown Leader
01-04-2011, 03:09 PM
"We didn't win enough" comes off as more of an excuse for a team that had one of the toughest schedules and is definitely better than last years squad. Clearly then, Holmgren has a direction for the team that he thinks will not coincide with Mangini. I'm wondering if that has anything to do with Mangini's philosophy about the type of guys he would bring in-high character types without any off field incidents at all.

I'm not advocating for this to happen but it looks like a possibility-if rumored top candidate Marty Mornhinweg is brought in I actually think Cam Newton could be a target for Holmgren and Heckert. McCoy wasn't necessarily drafted to be a franchise QB and there wasn't consensus on taking him. I think it's conceivable he might be looked at still as a guy who could be a serviceable starter but not much more. If things had gone to plan he would not have even seen the field and drafting a QB #1 would not be much of a debate. With the firing of Mangini it seems like Holmgren is following a plan he already put in place, and in that, could be drafting a big time QB prospect.

Heckert brought back Vick and has evaluated McNabb his whole career, if he is sold on Cam, it's a done deal. He also brought in Kolb, who in my opinion is a bigger armed McCoy, point is, his evaluation of Cam will hold weight. Of course Mornhinweg also coached all three and is being praised for his work with Vick. Then there's Holmgren with final say, who drafted a dual threat in Seneca years ago to be a QB, when some thought he needed a position change. If he thinks Newton will be a star it won't matter what fans/analysts think of Colt.

Finnally our draft position makes the chances of drafting Cam fairly good. IMO Buffalo will not draft him, and neither will Arizona or Cincy. Our situation is more stable than those places-Holmgren will be here for a good while-until the team is contending, and McCoy could be starting for at least two seasons. If McCoy proves them wrong and turns out to be a good long term starter then they have a valuable bargaining chip.

I like the potential of McCoy but I also liked Frye-its still very debatable if Colt is a franchise QB. Heckert and Holmgren evaluated Harrison after last season's breakout and still didn't consider him a franchise type back when many analysts were touting him as a fantasy keeper.

MattyFos
01-04-2011, 09:32 PM
@Browns

IN-TER-EST-ING!!1!1!!!1!1!!

Never pieced together that puzzle like you. I like the way your mind works. I don't know how I feel about Cam. But I trust H&H. If they go that route then I think it'll work out. I want Morningwood. That was Lions fans nickname for Morhninweg.. Haha

MattyFos
01-05-2011, 08:48 AM
Scheduled interviews;

Perry Fewell DC, Giants
Pat Shumur OC, Rams
Mike Mularkey OC, Falcons
Marty Mornhinweg OC, Eagles

mdmgrand
01-05-2011, 10:09 PM
I'll take Mornhinweg, and with that I really do not want Cam Newton on the Browns.... I'd still take the top receiver available, check McCoy out for another year before just throwing in the towel...

Morton
01-06-2011, 01:43 PM
You guys will be lucky if you get Morninwheg. He'll take your offense to a whole new level. He'll make Colt McCoy look like the new Joe Montana.

MattyFos
01-06-2011, 02:21 PM
@mdmgrand
Holmgren has said that he will take a mid-round QB in every draft. I'm assuming he's just trying to find a gem like Brady.. Cam would be too high of a pick for Holmgren to "take and test" but like I've said before "In Holmgren we trust". Plus when Brown Leader wrote that he was throwing poo against the wall and seeing if it'd stick. I doubt it sticks, but who knows.

@Morton
I don't understand why you have such bad REP. I love your comment. I, too, like Mornhinweg. I think he has a great offensive mind and I think since his firing from Detroit (8 years) he has had a lot of time to learn and grow. A lot of that time (maybe all of it) has been under Andy Reid and it seems like Mornhinweg calls a good game.
With stability at the top of the Browns organization; Mornhinweg can take this team to the next level. Heckert the former GM of the Eagles, who drafted Jackson, McCoy, Kolb, and Maclin, also resurrected McVick. Then Mornhinweg has essentially made McVick a pocket passer who can run when things get tight rather than looking to run first.

Heckert + Holmgren + Mornhinweg= good times in Cleveland.

P.S. Morton. I wish I could add some REP for you, but my rep counts for NUZZING!

MattyFos
01-06-2011, 02:24 PM
Heckert + Holmgren + Mornhinweg= good times in Cleveland.


EDIT

Heckert + Holmgren + Mornhinweg - Mangini - Daboll = good times in Cleveland

keylime_5
01-06-2011, 02:31 PM
One of these guys at #6 si vous plait:

AJ Green-WR
Nick Fairley-DT
Da'Quan Bowers-DE
Robert Quinn-DE
Patrick Peterson-CB
Marcell Dareus-DT
Prince Amukamara-CB
Julio Jones-WR

I have a sneaking suspicion that whoever our new head coach is will implement the 4-3 base defense...which means we'll need 2 new starting DEs and 2 new starting linebackers immediately. Not a huge deal considering we needed front 7 help in any scenario, but it effects our draft needs a lot. Bowers and Fairley are likely higher priorities if we run a 4-3 compared to guys like Quinn and Dareus if we stay in a 3-4.

Brown Leader
01-07-2011, 08:58 AM
I thought Holmgren said he'd like to take a QB in every draft? Emphasis on the a. If things could have worked out he would have drafted Bradford so I don't think his record of avoiding 1st round QBs applies.

The philosophy of, if you don't have a franchise one, applies here and Scott has posted about the success rate of 1st round QBs as opposed to later ones-I think we should be prepared for a QB in the first round.

NGSeiler
01-07-2011, 11:58 AM
Scheduled interviews;

Perry Fewell DC, Giants
Pat Shumur OC, Rams
Mike Mularkey OC, Falcons
Marty Mornhinweg OC, Eagles

Curious how Browns fans feel about this one.

MattyFos
01-07-2011, 02:31 PM
Curious how Browns fans feel about this one.

I don't know much about him or the Rams offense for that matter. Fow what it's worth. It seems like he had less, if it's possible, talent at wide receiver than the Browns. A better running back than the Browns. A better Qb (considering we had 3 different QB's starting this year) and a not-so-good offensive line (Come on, no matter who you have on the line you're not better than Thomas, Mack and Steinbach)

So I would say that the two offenses are similar in personnel and Shumur's O outyarded the Browns by 13 yards per game and by a little over a point per game. So I don't know how much of an upgrade that would be. BUT, the HC's main job is delegating power and if Shumur can bring in a good QB coach/OC/DC (if needed) then it all comes down to the type of philosophy he has.

What kind of game did he call? Daboll (Browns soon to be ex-OC) called..
Run
Run
Run
Punt

Run
Run
Trick play
Punt

Run
Pass
Run
Trick play punt

NGSeiler
01-07-2011, 02:37 PM
What kind of game did he call?

It was rather simplistic and conservative for most of the year. His strong supporters argue that's what it had to be with a rookie QB and limited talent at receiver. His critics said there could have been more creativity and diversity in his run and pass calls. Bradford rarely threw the ball down field, the staff seemed to prefer quick drops and short routes to minimize mistake and help keep him upright. That worked at times, not so much in other games.

MattyFos
01-07-2011, 06:32 PM
It was rather simplistic and conservative for most of the year. His strong supporters argue that's what it had to be with a rookie QB and limited talent at receiver. His critics said there could have been more creativity and diversity in his run and pass calls. Bradford rarely threw the ball down field, the staff seemed to prefer quick drops and short routes to minimize mistake and help keep him upright. That worked at times, not so much in other games.


Wow that is eerily similar to the Mangini/Daboll offense. But of course you work with what you have. The Rams and Browns could probably randomly select a new WR corp out of the phone book. Does Bradford have a strong arm? I think the Browns played so conservatively because IMO McCoy hasn't shown me that be can throw it 25+ yards consistently and accurately.

j05son
01-14-2011, 12:02 PM
What I really like about this draft is that the best player available when we pick will most likely be at a position of need for us...

Draft is really heavy on DL, some really nice WR talent in Green, Jones and Baldwin (Blackmon went back to school) and some really talented corners in Peterson and Prince. So no matter how the first 5 picks turn out, we're set for a stud at a position of need.

diabsoule
01-16-2011, 09:29 PM
Would you guys rather have Marcel Dareus or Julio Jones?

STsACE
01-16-2011, 10:43 PM
Would you guys rather have Marcel Dareus or Julio Jones?

Dareus..........

Doesn't matter if we switch schemes, front 7 needs upgraded minus Rubin.

fear the elf
01-17-2011, 01:03 PM
Would you guys rather have Marcel Dareus or Julio Jones?

Julio. The front 7 needs help, but IMO, a great WR will help Colt develop, and that's by far the most important thing for this team right now.

kalbears13
01-17-2011, 06:00 PM
Personally I don't like Julio but when it comes to need, you can't go wrong with either.

Brown Leader
01-17-2011, 06:47 PM
I think it's a big mistake to shift to a 43 defense and a rather poor draft to attempt find solid 43 prospects outside of undertackles. We ought to pay Ryan whatever he wants. Jauron/Wannstedt is more than a few steps backward.

STsACE
01-17-2011, 08:06 PM
I think it's a big mistake to shift to a 43 defense and a rather poor draft to attempt find solid 43 prospects outside of undertackles. We ought to pay Ryan whatever he wants. Jauron/Wannstedt is more than a few steps backward.

Ryan already inked as DC in Dallas. I don't want to switch to 4-3 as it'll take us a couple years to rework the front 7 instead of upgrading a few spots in the 3-4 in one good draft and FA.

Iamcanadian
01-21-2011, 06:51 PM
I think there is a fairly decent chance that we will be in a position to get Green instead of Jones. I can easily see the 5 teams drafting ahead of us passing on Green.

keylime_5
01-21-2011, 06:57 PM
I have serious doubts that Green falls to 6. If he does great, but guys who are arguably the best player in the draft don't fall out of the top 5 picks. If Carolina and Buffalo don't take him I think Cincy will barring something bizarre.

I hope we get Bowers or Quinn. With the switch to the 4-3 we need some pass rushers for serious.

Tom Servo
01-22-2011, 06:51 PM
Switching to a 43 almost certainly makes the pick DL, with the only exception being Green. I think Clayborn is the best fit but can't see us takin him that early. I'd be happy with Bowers though

Anyone else see Big Mike workin a little war room magic and tradin down a bit? I could also see a couple 'backers getting dealt for picks come d-day

j05son
01-24-2011, 02:34 PM
Our draft position is a little "eh" for me...While I would love to go BPA and grab either Green, Peterson, Fairley or Bowers if one of them slips...If none of those guys slip though, that's when it goes "eh" for me...

I honestly don't know much about Quinn other than he was suspended for the year and he's a freak athlete. How's his motor? Freak athlete + nonstop motor usually = big things.

Dareus as our new UT would be amazing but that's Rogers bread and butter position. Rogers still has years left in him and is an elite UT.

I would love a trade down to acquire another pick and grab someone like Kerrigan.

RDE - Kerrigan
NT - Rubin
UT - Rogers
LDE - Roth

kalbears13
01-24-2011, 02:43 PM
Our draft position is a little "eh" for me...While I would love to go BPA and grab either Green, Peterson, Fairley or Bowers if one of them slips...If none of those guys slip though, that's when it goes "eh" for me...

I honestly don't know much about Quinn other than he was suspended for the year and he's a freak athlete. How's his motor? Freak athlete + nonstop motor usually = big things.

Dareus as our new UT would be amazing but that's Rogers bread and butter position. Rogers still has years left in him and is an elite UT.

I would love a trade down to acquire another pick and grab someone like Kerrigan.

RDE - Kerrigan
NT - Rubin
UT - Rogers
LDE - Roth

I would be down for Quinn. Which means all five of those players would have to be drafted in the top 5 for the Browns not to get any of them so I'm not too worried. At that point there might be high demand for the #6 point for one of the quarterbacks. I can almost guarantee one of the QBs will move up during workouts to warrant a top 5 pick which will make it easy to trade out of.

footballfan098
01-24-2011, 02:52 PM
Hey guys, I am doing a mock draft and my team is the Cleveland Browns and just wanted to get an idea of the types of picks would be best for the team.

The biggest needs to me are WR/RT/DE/OLB.

I traded down to 9 and then again to 13. I am still in front of STL and am planning on taking Julio. (The top pass rushers are all gone).
I am picking:
1.13
2.5
2.8
3.11
4.5

What type of players would ya'll like based on the picks I have?
Appreciate the feedback.

j05son
01-25-2011, 07:17 PM
Hey guys, I am doing a mock draft and my team is the Cleveland Browns and just wanted to get an idea of the types of picks would be best for the team.

The biggest needs to me are WR/RT/DE/OLB.

I traded down to 9 and then again to 13. I am still in front of STL and am planning on taking Julio. (The top pass rushers are all gone).
I am picking:
1.13
2.5
2.8
3.11
4.5

What type of players would ya'll like based on the picks I have?
Appreciate the feedback.

Well, with the 4-3 we're going to have a need for a MLB and a need for a DE.

On the offensive side, I don't think offensive line is that big of a need. Lauvao had a high ankle sprain and just lost a lot of time, there was talk of him being an opening day starter. Pashos played RT amazing just not for long ending up on IR. Yates is a very serviceable player that can play guard and center. Womack is also a very good player, played great when he didn't have St. Claire next to him and he can play the right side (guard or tackle).

So for Offensive line, I guess you can pencil in:
LT Thomas
LG Steinbach
C Mack
RG Womack
RT Pashos

We have a promising 2nd year guy in Lauvao who can compete for the RG job. We have a guy who played well for us as a spot starter before he himself ended up on IR in Yates. I think we just need another guy for depth and not a "starter" per say.

We need a wideout, but we don't need another #2 guy. We need a legit #1 WR. I know a lot of people think Julio Jones will be a better pro than he was a college wideout but a big physical guy with questionable hands...Hopefully he has a better personality than Braylon =\. Massaquoi is very capable of being our #2. Stuckey was playing well for us. Robiskie, well, who knows. He started to come along last season but at other times you wouldn't even know he was active.

I'm really high on Ryan Kerrigan - DE from Purdue but the best bet is to go BPA as all the injuries last year showed us, we have no depth.

jriles0522
01-26-2011, 05:15 PM
Our position at 6 doesn't bother me. I feel there are about 6-7 premier guys in the draft. Between Cincy and AZ I expect a QB taken which would push one more guy down the board.

Those guys are:

Fairley, DT
Dareus, DT
Peterson, CB/S
Green, WR
Bowers, DE
Quinn, DE
Amukamura, CB

If Gabbert/Cam Newton/Locker somehow sneak up into 4 or 5 we'd have our pick of two of those guys. Frankly, I'd love Dareus, Bowers, Quinn, or Peterson. We just don't have the luxury of taking a WR when guys like that are on the board. Desean Jackson, Mike Wallace, Tampa Mike Williams, can be found later. The best WRs in the league, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson are all buried on non-playoff teams.

IMO theres a big drop off after that when you start to get into Julio Jones, Von Miller, etc and some guys who will rise up the board late like there always are.

j05son
01-27-2011, 09:12 PM
I disagree with not taking a WR, in our spot you take best player available regardless. Green might be the best player in the draft (he or Peterson IMO) and Fitz hasn't been buried that long, he did play in the Super Bowl.

Also, Cameron Jordan is going to shoot up draft boards, kid looks amazing at the senior bowl. I've read reports that he'll go earlier than his former teammate Alualu.

RaiderNation
01-30-2011, 03:18 AM
What do you guys think about Von Miller or Cam Jordan at #9? Both had impressive Senior Bowls and fit your new 4-3 defense.

kalbears13
01-30-2011, 03:21 AM
What do you guys think about Von Miller or Cam Jordan at #9? Both had impressive Senior Bowls and fit your new 4-3 defense.

At 9? sure. What happened at 6 though?

footballfan098
02-02-2011, 11:04 AM
j05son thanks for the feedback, I did end up going BPA the whole way and ended up filling needs along the way

1.13 Julio Jones
2.5 Stephen Paea
2.11 Kyle Rudolph
3.11 Mason Foster
3.21 Jabaal Sheard

Would ya'll be happy with that?

kalbears13
02-02-2011, 11:54 AM
j05son thanks for the feedback, I did end up going BPA the whole way and ended up filling needs along the way

1.13 Julio Jones
2.5 Stephen Paea
2.11 Kyle Rudolph
3.11 Mason Foster
3.21 Jabaal Sheard

Would ya'll be happy with that?

That's pretty solid. You got BPA and it happened to coincide with need too (besides Rudolph, since TE isn't really a need). I can dig it.

j05son
02-09-2011, 05:05 PM
j05son thanks for the feedback, I did end up going BPA the whole way and ended up filling needs along the way

1.13 Julio Jones
2.5 Stephen Paea
2.11 Kyle Rudolph
3.11 Mason Foster
3.21 Jabaal Sheard

Would ya'll be happy with that?

=]

I'm not a Jones fan but I understand the pick and it's great value.
Love Paea in the second. Who else was doing these mocks that Paea went to the 2nd round!
I like the Foster pick as well. Don't know anything about Sheard.

kalbears13
02-09-2011, 06:56 PM
With Rogers getting cut I can see Fairley or Dareus definitely in the mix now, before it was a maybe.

OhioJB
02-12-2011, 08:17 AM
It'll be interesting to see how different sites and draft analysts rank the players after the Combine, but I can't imagine Patrick Peterson, Nick Fairley, and Da'quan Bowers not being in the top 5 on virtually everyone's board. And more importantly on team's boards when they draw them up by draft day.

And considering how hyped up QB's get by Kiper and others, I wouldn't be shocked to see both Gabbert and Newton drafted in the top 5. If they do well at the Combine, Carolina, Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Arizona could all be interested. I doubt Mallett will be considered, but that's a possibility as well. Also wonder if Denver would consider a QB. Doubtful, but another possibility.

Best case scenario for the Browns obviously would be to see two or three QB's drafted in the top 5. If two are drafted that leaves some good prospects for Cleveland:

1) RB Mark Ingram - Only player in the draft I'd rather have is CB Patrick Peterson. But would they take him with Hillis and Hardesty on the team? I'd hope so, but with needing so much on defense they may not want to take a RB.

2) WR A.J. Green - Would he help the Browns? Sure would, but I personally think he's just a little overrated. A very good WR, but I'm not convinced he's the next Calvin Johnson. And keep in mind something Mike Holmgren said in one of his press conferences. He mentioned he likes our WR's, and thinks they didn't get enough touches to make plays. Also said he's used to attacking more towards the sidelines in the passing game rather than the middle of the field like Mangini/Daboll were doing at the time. I doubt WR will be the position they'll chose to draft, unless they feel Green is undoubtedly the best player by far left to chose from.

3) DL Marcell Dareus - Would not be my choice. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see him as a top 6 talent. Hope I'm wrong because odds are we'll draft him or Quinn.

4) DE Robert Quinn - I'm not a scout so maybe that's why I don't see what others do in him. Depending on how seriously teams consider his supposed character concerns, he could fall out of the top 10. Interviews he has at the Combine will weigh heavily.

5) WR Julio Jones - Would be unhappy with this pick. Really would. Maybe I'm being unfair saying certain players are overrated when for the most part I've only seen highlights of some of these guys and little of their actual games, not to mention as fans we don't get to watch coaches tape, but Jones doesn't appear to be a top 6 talent to me. Hopefully the Bengals will draft him at #4.

6) LB Von Miller - I've heard him described as a 3-4 OLB. Haven't seen enough of him to say myself, but from what I do know would be a reach at number 6 anyway.

7) CB Prince Amukarama - Another player I may be missing something on. Doesn't look that fast to me when compared to Patrick Peterson.

8) DE Ryan Kerrigan - Would be great for the Browns. Some players are just football players, meaning their mentality sets them apart. Players like Ed Reed, Troy Palomalu (sic?), etc. In this draft Kerrigan, Ingram, Fairley, and Bowers seem to have that type of mindset. Just good tough players.

If something happens the Browns have Cam Newton and/or Blaine Gabbert available at #6 it'll be interesting to see if they draft them. And there's always a possibility of trading down.

Jeff

kalbears13
02-12-2011, 10:56 AM
I would poop in a box and send it to Tom Heckert if he drafted Mark Ingram. No reason they would draft Mark Ingram at #6. He's not even an elite prospect and Heckert drafted his guy in Hardesty and Hillis had a pro-bowl caliber year. There are way too many needs besides Mark Ingram who isn't even close to BPA.

OhioJB
02-12-2011, 01:17 PM
I doubt Heckert would appreciate that much. hah..Anyway, I recommend watching 'Ultimate Mark Ingram highlights' on youtube. He doesn't have Adrian Peterson speed, but then again who does, however he's fast enough and breaks a fair amount of tackles. Runs hard. Guess I just like his style of running and the fact he's built tough enough to take some blows.

Will he be the highest ranked player on the Browns board when they pick? Probably not, but right now he'd be number 4 on mine if I had the power to draft players. Fairley, Bowers, and Peterson are the only ones I'd put ahead of him, and I'm not 100% certain about Peterson only because I haven't seen enough of him.

Problem with Hardesty is the injury history. Hillis can't take all those carries like he did this past season. I realize he wont anyway because they'll be passing more, but still he needs to share duties to avoid getting worn down too much or hurt.

But I do agree they'll concentrate on other positions, namely on defense in the first round.

Checked out Wikipedia a little while ago to review past NFL drafts. Interesting which players ended up Pro Bowlers, and which didn't. The Pro Bowlers were spread out pretty evenly throughout the 1st round. For example for the 2009 draft there have already been 5 Pro Bowlers - players drafted at 13, 15, 21 (Alex Mack), 22, and 26.

From the 2005 draft 10 1st rounders have become pro bowlers, in the other rounds a combined 13, plus 7 undrafted rookies.

It's basically a crapshoot in the first round especially. Bottomline, teams need to find out which players actually want to play the game for the love of it and have a tough enough mindset to be successful, and which players are more interested in the money and living the high life.

kalbears13
02-13-2011, 01:48 AM
I doubt Heckert would appreciate that much. hah..Anyway, I recommend watching 'Ultimate Mark Ingram highlights' on youtube. He doesn't have Adrian Peterson speed, but then again who does, however he's fast enough and breaks a fair amount of tackles. Runs hard. Guess I just like his style of running and the fact he's built tough enough to take some blows.

Will he be the highest ranked player on the Browns board when they pick? Probably not, but right now he'd be number 4 on mine if I had the power to draft players. Fairley, Bowers, and Peterson are the only ones I'd put ahead of him, and I'm not 100% certain about Peterson only because I haven't seen enough of him.

Problem with Hardesty is the injury history. Hillis can't take all those carries like he did this past season. I realize he wont anyway because they'll be passing more, but still he needs to share duties to avoid getting worn down too much or hurt.

But I do agree they'll concentrate on other positions, namely on defense in the first round.

Checked out Wikipedia a little while ago to review past NFL drafts. Interesting which players ended up Pro Bowlers, and which didn't. The Pro Bowlers were spread out pretty evenly throughout the 1st round. For example for the 2009 draft there have already been 5 Pro Bowlers - players drafted at 13, 15, 21 (Alex Mack), 22, and 26.

From the 2005 draft 10 1st rounders have become pro bowlers, in the other rounds a combined 13, plus 7 undrafted rookies.

It's basically a crapshoot in the first round especially. Bottomline, teams need to find out which players actually want to play the game for the love of it and have a tough enough mindset to be successful, and which players are more interested in the money and living the high life.

I just don't see why you would spend a #6 overall pick on a runningback which isn't a huge position for a rebuilding team, especially when the player isn't considered an elite prospect. Reggie Bush was one of the few runningbacks to be considered a top pick and it didn't really pan out. Adrian Peterson was drafted 7th overall and he was considered to be one of the best pure runningbacks to come out in years.

I would pick any of those other guys on your list over Ingram.

I don't know how you can say it's more of a crapshoot in the first. That's 10 out of the first round and 13 over the next 6, which is just over 2 pro bowlers per round. I would take the crapshoot in the first round over the later rounds.


And as a sidenote, the more I look at the roster, the more I realize that the Browns might need a corner.

OhioJB
02-13-2011, 05:41 AM
Honestly, I doubt the Browns will consider RB in the 1st round, and believe the focus will be on D-line, unless Peterson falls to 6.

I wasn't clear enough in what I was saying about the pro bowlers being spread out - I meant 1st round selections only. Early 1st compared to mid-first and late-first rounders. Threw in the pro bowlers from other rounds and rookie UFA's mainly because I found it interesting so many undrafted players made the pro bowl from one particular draft.

More than anything, my point is I want to see players drafted who have the right mindset, and not become what many felt Gerard Warren became once he had 'Big Money'. Hard thing to evaluate, but I can tell you before they were drafted I was sure Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu were going to be very good and dedicated to their teams.

As far as this draft goes, the players I worry we'll end up with is based on over-hyped talent not character concerns. WR A.J. Green reminds me a little of MoMass more than what the supposed best WR since Calvin Johnson should play like. Julio Jones isn't talented enough to be drafted high either in my opinion. The other player that seems to be over-hyped from what I can tell is QB Blaine Gabbert. If the Browns select one of them I'll be disappointed.

P01ntb1ank
02-13-2011, 10:58 AM
After the recent cuts that have taken place, I just don't see how we don't take one of the top 4 DL prospects. Out of the four of them, I think Bowers would be the best fit but I don't really see him falling to us. I also wouldn't be surprised if Cam Jordan or JJ Watt make a Tyson Alualu jump into the conversation come draft day.

OhioJB
02-13-2011, 12:04 PM
The 1st round will be loaded with DL selected the way it looks now. Cam Jordan is getting noticed and may very well be a top 10 pick. Personally I'm more impressed with Kerrigan than JJ Watt, and guessing he'll be a top 10-12 pick. The Browns certainly need DL, so wont complain if they draft one in the 1st.

kalbears13
02-14-2011, 02:31 PM
My Browns Big Board
1. Da'Quan Bowers- Great talent that showed huge improvement his senior year and should only get better.
2. Marcell Dareus- Better 3 technique than Fairley.
3. AJ Green- WR that could fill #1 hole.
4. Patrick Peterson- Besides Haden, there's really nobody on the other side.
5. Robert Quinn- I think he will have to show a lot at the combine to show he's still got it.
6. Nick Fairley- Better for a 3-4 but just an absolute beast if he has the motivation.

OhioJB
02-19-2011, 02:00 PM
I've seen more highlights of Marcell Dareus. He's better than I originally surmised. Also, on Total Access on NFL Network, Warren Sapp mentioned he had him as his #1 DT because he uses his hands well, compared to Fairley who he said relies on brute strength and has to learn how to use his hands. Mayock also has him as his #1 DT. I'd still prefer Bowers because he looks talented enough to wreck havoc by putting pressure on the QB and chasing down RB's. My negative on a player is still A.J. Green. Very good player but still don't think of him as a top 10 talent.

The six I'd like to see the team select from, in order of preference:

1) Patrick Peterson - Rare DB talent

2) Da'quan Bowers - Believe he would make a bigger impact for the Browns than the top two DT's.

3) Nick Fairley - Once he learns how to use his hands better, I'm guessing he'll be a better NFL player than Dareus. Plus, he has a nasty streak that'll help put Squealers, Ratbirds, and Ben-gals in place.

4) Marcell Dareus - Would put him only slightly behind Fairley.

5) Ryan Kerrigan - Might even be able to trade down a couple or few spots and still get him. He's a just a good solid football player who goes all out.

6) Robert Quinn - Only if he proves he's worth it at the Combine and in interviews with the team. Definitely has the talent. Most would put him above Kerrigan, but for now there's enough doubt I'll keep him at #6 just based on talent level.

As much as I would like to see Ingram drafted by the Browns, I'm realistic enough to know that wont happen. Unless something crazy happens and they take advantage of Hillis' trade value and can pick up a 1st rounder for him. I'm not expecting that, just saying Ingram wont be considered most likely unless Hillis is traded. As crazy as this sounds keep in mind Mangini was the one who coveted Hillis and wanted him included in the Quinn trade.

Another player I want to keep tabs on at the Combine is Prince Amukarama. I've heard some criticism regarding his speed and the quality of WR's he faced in college. He needs to turn some heads at the Combine by having some great workouts. As hard as it is to find top-notch CB's, and considering the importance of having great ones, I'm hoping he proves he's better than some think he is. We obviously need a replacement for Sheldon Brown who had trouble covering receivers.

The team will be in a great spot to trade down if they decide they need more draft picks. There'll be at least a couple players other teams will covet enough to present offers. Depending on who's still on the board, it might be worth it.

Tom Servo
02-23-2011, 10:36 AM
My Browns Big Board
1. Da'Quan Bowers- Great talent that showed huge improvement his senior year and should only get better.
2. Marcell Dareus- Better 3 technique than Fairley.
3. AJ Green- WR that could fill #1 hole.
4. Patrick Peterson- Besides Haden, there's really nobody on the other side.
5. Robert Quinn- I think he will have to show a lot at the combine to show he's still got it.
6. Nick Fairley- Better for a 3-4 but just an absolute beast if he has the motivation.

This would be very similar to my board but I want no part of Fairley. I've seen enough DTs with motivational concerns. I'd probably switch Dareus and Green

j05son
02-23-2011, 09:42 PM
This would be very similar to my board but I want no part of Fairley. I've seen enough DTs with motivational concerns. I'd probably switch Dareus and Green

I remember when Ngata came out, his big knock was that he would play without motivation. All the "experts" said Baltimore was perfect for him as RayRay wouldn't let him lose motivation. Obviously we can't determine how much Lewis has helped Ngata's motivation but at the same time, knocks on people are sometimes blown out of proportion.

p.s. **** you Phil Savage for passing on Ngata for Wimbley.

Iamcanadian
02-26-2011, 02:20 AM
I think it could come down to Quinn or Green, they are the most likely to be there at #6 when we draft. Tough choice IMO, both will be huge stars in the NFL. Take your choice.

kalbears13
02-26-2011, 04:51 AM
I think it could come down to Quinn or Green, they are the most likely to be there at #6 when we draft. Tough choice IMO, both will be huge stars in the NFL. Take your choice.

What happened to you?! You used to be so negative!! This and your post about McCoy! I like it!!

Iamcanadian
02-26-2011, 11:12 PM
What happened to you?! You used to be so negative!! This and your post about McCoy! I like it!!

Just don't get me started on Lerner. Still a long way to go. With Holmgren running the draft, it should be a lot better.

Brown Leader
03-02-2011, 02:11 PM
My 3-2 big board

1. JJ. Watt
2. Robert Quinn
3. Prince Amukamara
4. Nick Fairley
5. DaQuan Bowers
6. Gabbert/Newton
7. A.J. Green

I just don't like taking WRs high. Figuring Dareus and Peterson off the board.

keylime_5
03-05-2011, 10:44 AM
my list:

1-Bowers
2-Fairley
3-Green
4-Dareus
5-Peterson
6-Quinn

though I'm sure we'll have Dareus rated probably in our top 2 realistically, and ahead of Fairley. It will be very interesting to see what we do if Peterson is on the board at 6.

Tom Servo
03-05-2011, 01:02 PM
I just can't see us goin corner. If it happens I'm ok with it I guess, but DL and WR are easily the top concerns. With Julio lightin it up in Indy he'd probably garner some consideration if Bowers, Dareus, Green and Gerard Warren, er...I mean Fairley are all gone at 6

wonderbredd24
03-05-2011, 09:54 PM
1. Marcell Dareus, DT Alabama
2. Nick Fairley, DT Auburn
3. Robert Quinn, DE North Carolina
4. Da'Quan Bowers, DE Clemson
5. A.J. Green, WR Georgia
6. Patrick Peterson, CB LSU

DeepThreat
03-06-2011, 04:33 PM
Currently my board is as follows:

1. A.J. Green
2. Marcell Dareus
3. Da'Quan Bowers
4. Patrick Peterson
5. Nick Fairley
6. Cameron Jordan

That is, however, very subject to change. Especially the bottom 4.

wonderbredd24
03-06-2011, 04:59 PM
Just don't get me started on Lerner. Still a long way to go. With Holmgren running the draft, it should be a lot better.
Holmgren running the draft would be a disaster. Thankfully, he hired Heckert.

Not a single mention of Julio Jones on anyone's list? How can that be?

kalbears13
03-06-2011, 07:53 PM
Currently my board is as follows:

1. A.J. Green
2. Marcell Dareus
3. Da'Quan Bowers
4. Patrick Peterson
5. Nick Fairley
6. Cameron Jordan

That is, however, very subject to change. Especially the bottom 4.

100% ****! :D Mine would be...

1. Bowers
2. Dareus
3. Peterson
4. Jordan
5. Green
6. Kerrigan
7. Fairley
8. Jones


Holmgren running the draft would be a disaster. Thankfully, he hired Heckert.

Not a single mention of Julio Jones on anyone's list? How can that be?

There you go. I put him at #8. :D

wonderbredd24
03-06-2011, 08:07 PM
There you go. I put him at #8. :D

1. Marcell Dareus, DT Alabama
2. Nick Fairley, DT Auburn
3. Robert Quinn, DE North Carolina
4. Da'Quan Bowers, DE Clemson
5. A.J. Green, WR Georgia
6. Patrick Peterson, CB LSU
7. Cameron Jordan, DE Cal
8. J.J. Watt, DE Wisconsin
9. Aldon Smith, DE Missouri
10. Mark Ingram, RB Alabama
11. Prince Amukamara, CB Nebraska
12. Corey Liuget, DT Illinois
13. Julio Jones, WR Alabama

13th

OhioJB
03-07-2011, 07:08 AM
Starting to get a better feel how the first few picks could go, and who will be left for the Browns to chose from. First few picks:

1) Carolina - QB Blaine Gabbert - QB's often get drafted much higher than they should due to to the importance of the position, and the difficulty in finding a franchise signal-caller. Gabbert has just enough talent to be considered for #1 overall considering certain QB's get overvalued.

2) Denver - DE Da'quan Bowers - They could draft Peterson instead but Bowers is my guess for Denver.

3) Buffalo - DT Marcell Dareus - Another team that could draft Peterson instead, but Dareus would really help improve Buffalo's D-line. I've seen other DT's described as the next Sapp, but Dareus probably reminds me more of him than the previous 'next Warren Sapps'. Bottomline Dareus is too good to pass up here. DE Robert Quinn may also be considered.

4) Cincinnati - QB Cam Newton - The Bengals have proven they will take players that have maturity or character concerns. I'm sure they get the picture that Palmer is serious about not playing for them again. I personally think it's too high for Cam, but they will be desperate to find their next franchise QB. Green and Peterson are other possibilities.

5) Arizona - CB Patrick Peterson - Would be hard for them to pass up the player some consider the best in the draft, and it's a position of need. Von Miller and maybe Fairley will also be considered.

6) Cleveland - DT Nick Fairley - Not a cut and dry selection. After dealing with Rogers lack of motivation to practice and earn his paycheck last season, the Browns braintrust will have to figure out whether Fairley will be motivated and dedicated. We need lots of D-linemen, and Fairley next to Rubin would help stuff the run. The two WR's and DE Quinn would be major considerations as well, probably with Quinn having the edge. Von Miller may also be considered.

If the top of the draft plays out this way it wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen for the Browns. The key is having two QB's being drafted in the top 5. Would also like to see Buffalo draft Quinn instead of Dareus, and have Dareus fall to the Browns. Just doubt that he would make it all the way down to 6 in that case.

Something else to consider, especially if Green is drafted in the top 5. The Browns were big on drafting toughness in the '10 draft, and Julio Jones is considered a real tough WR. I wont be shocked if he is drafted by the Browns.

Regardless who the top 5 players are that get drafted, the Browns will have some top-notch talent to select from.

Iamcanadian
03-08-2011, 12:51 AM
This year's draft is extremely talented for at least 12 picks and we will have no difficulty getting an impact player no matter who is available when we draft.

Brown Leader
03-08-2011, 11:10 PM
Among the NFL brass attending Cam Newton's workout: Carolina Panthers coach Ron Rivera, Denver Broncos executive vice president of football operations John Elway and new coach John Fox, Cincinnati Bengals coach Marvin Lewis, Arizona Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt, Cleveland Browns general manager Tom Heckert and coach Pat Shurmur and Buffalo Bills general manager Buddy Nix.
Just saying....and Dick Jauron.

wonderbredd24
03-08-2011, 11:28 PM
The Browns have committed to Colt McCoy, so drafting Newton would pretty much undermine that... unless he's sitting there and they want to trade.

Nick Fairley on the other hand...

Brown Leader
03-08-2011, 11:33 PM
Committed to him as a starter for next year. Also said they wouldn't hesitate to draft a QB high if they liked him...just saying. Fairley is EDIT - almost - as scary as Newton in terms of boom/bust.

wonderbredd24
03-08-2011, 11:57 PM
Committed to him as a starter for next year. Also said they wouldn't hesitate to draft a QB high if they liked him...just saying. Fairley is just as scary as Newton in terms of boom/bust.
The Browns aren't taking Newton.

He's not even in the conversation. Everything the Browns want to do with the west coast offense... Newton does almost none of those things.

Brown Leader
03-09-2011, 04:23 PM
Can't speak to what they will or won't do but he better be in the conversation.

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 04:29 PM
Can't speak to what they will or won't do but he better be in the conversation.
Explain why

Brown Leader
03-09-2011, 04:35 PM
Because we may or may not have a franchise QB. IMO probably not. If.. Heckert/Shurmur like Newton's or Gabbert's future prospects, they need to be in the conversation.

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 04:56 PM
Because we may or may not have a franchise QB. IMO probably not. If.. Heckert/Shurmur like Newton's or Gabbert's future prospects, they need to be in the conversation.
How does Cam Newton fit into the west coast offense, which Pat Shurmur was hired to run?

Brown Leader
03-09-2011, 05:03 PM
He's way too raw to say what offense he can or can't fit into.

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 05:08 PM
He's way too raw to say what offense he can or can't fit into.
You're only adding to the argument why Cam Newton coming here would be an absolute disaster.

ESPN recently had an article where they rated the likelihood of Cam Newton to all 32 teams. I think the Browns rated the lowest with Very Low and with good reason.

They said they are going with Colt McCoy as their starting quarterback next season. That's strike 1.

He doesn't fit the offense Pat Shurmur intends to run, which has featured Sam Bradford and will feature Colt McCoy, two exceptionally accurate quarterbacks. That's strike 2.

And drafting Cam Newton does the Browns absolutely no good this year and probably next. That's strike 3.

Though considering you have been pimping the idea that the Browns FO desperately wants Newton based on virtually nothing, the idea that you think he should be in the conversation is hardly surprising.

Brown Leader
03-09-2011, 05:20 PM
Auburn quarterback Cam Newton has private workouts (http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81eae177/article/panthers-bills-skins-vikes-among-teams-to-work-out-newton?module=HP_headlines) scheduled with at least eight NFL teams, ensuring that roughly half of those in the top half of the NFL draft's first round will have a closer look at one of the most intriguing prospects.

Newton's father, Cecil, told NFL.com senior analyst Gil Brandt on Wednesday that four of the teams are the Carolina Panthers, Buffalo Bills, Minnesota Vikings and Washington Redskins.

A league source later told NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora that Newton also is scheduled to work out for the Tennessee Titans, Miami Dolphins, Cincinnati Bengals and Cleveland Browns.


In each case, the team's head coach will conduct the workouts at undisclosed locations.

.................

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 05:23 PM
Which means what exactly? They are doing their due diligence? I certainly hope so. If Cam Newton is sitting on the board at 6 and someone thinks the Browns will take him and offers up king's ransom for it, I am all for it.

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 05:55 PM
yeah, we aren't gonna look at Newton or Gabbert. Both are huge risks and there will be a guy more than worthy of the 6th pick available that fills a gigantic need. Not to mention the fact that Colt McCoy had a pretty decent rookie year and has better prospects at this point than either of those guys with what we like to do on offense in the short passing game and the moving pocket and whatnot.

I think we go either Bowers, Green, Fairley, Dareus, Peterson, or Quinn. Should be one of those 6 guys.

Iamcanadian
03-17-2011, 09:16 PM
yeah, we aren't gonna look at Newton or Gabbert. Both are huge risks and there will be a guy more than worthy of the 6th pick available that fills a gigantic need. Not to mention the fact that Colt McCoy had a pretty decent rookie year and has better prospects at this point than either of those guys with what we like to do on offense in the short passing game and the moving pocket and whatnot.

I think we go either Bowers, Green, Fairley, Dareus, Peterson, or Quinn. Should be one of those 6 guys.

Like most of us, I'm hoping McCoy has a bright future but it really depends on what Holmgren thinks of his future.
You cannot win consistently unless you have a franchise QB, if Holmgren doesn't see that in McCoy's future, then we should be looking for one. We are never going to be a winner till we find one.
I sure hope McCoy is the guy.

Brown Leader
03-18-2011, 07:23 AM
The uproar over the possibility of taking Cam Newton by most of the Browns fanbase is amusing. I'm not sure if it's more about faith in McCoy or hatred of a player like Cam.

The cpd keeps reiterating that the Browns have tabbed McCoy as their QB of the future. Unless I'm mistaken that's not exactly what I heard-a statement from the club said the Browns are committed to McCoy as the starter for next season. Holmgren said he believes in him but within the "the guy" statements to the press never actually said Colt is "the guy".

Of course, this team doesn't get out of the doldrums until they find "that guy". Iac likened Colt to Hasselbeck and that would be fine if that came to be but I'd say even Matt had a better arm than little Colt here. Given the history of failure unless a squad has a legitimate QB I don't quite get the scoffing at considering potential franchise guys. Add to that a new head coach who would certainly prefer "his guy" since his job depends on it and it ought to be somewhat expected that he looks into other options. I'll still say Colt reminds me most of Pennington, and we would be lucky if he could approach that here, but even Chad was bigger than our guy.

Like most of us, I'm hoping McCoy has a bright future but it really depends on what Holmgren thinks of his future.
You cannot win consistently unless you have a franchise QB, if Holmgren doesn't see that in McCoy's future, then we should be looking for one. We are never going to be a winner till we find one.
I sure hope McCoy is the guy.
Holmgren running the draft would be a disaster. Thankfully, he hired Heckert.


That's why Holmgren's lastest comments are interesting. We know he, not necessarily Heckert, put his foot down on taking Colt after Corey Peters came off the board last year. But this year it looks as if he's allowing Shurmur to make the call on whether or not he wants to run with Colt as a long term guy or not. And just speculating but I'd wager if Heckert was ready to take Peters he didn't exactly consider Colt a long term answer.

I've no conviction that Newton will be a sure fire success but he shares a similar skill set to the guy Shurmur coached for 9 yrs and the guy that last season out played Heckert and Reid's successor to that guy-follow? I think it's safe to say that Kolb was a superior prospect to Colt so it seems very likely that Newton should get a real hard look by our fo.

OhioJB
03-25-2011, 06:46 PM
Starting to wonder if Julio Jones will be the player drafted by the Browns. Simplistic theory, however last year they mentioned they wanted to draft tough football players which was a reason for drafting Ward and even Haden to some extent. Players who aren't afraid of contact. Considering the first two selections last year were defensive players, and the fact Holmgren will want his QB Colt McCoy to succeed, I can see Julio Jones being targeted to help upgrade the WR position. He's willing to make the tough catches over the middle and doesn't shy away from contact whether it's taking a hit after a catch or blocking for a teammate. And it was hard not to be impressed with his showing at the Combine.

I personally would like to see one of the top defensive players selected, but am resigned to the fact we could very well end up with Jones. Not that he's not a good enough player to be selected #6, I'd just rather upgrade the defense with that pick.

Iamcanadian
03-25-2011, 08:08 PM
Personally, I doubt we take a WR that early, JMO. The WR crop is very deep with excellent picks available in rounds 2 and 3, so if I'm drafting, I grab a DLman and take my WR in round 2.

OhioJB
03-26-2011, 05:46 AM
Just noticed the site's new mock. If Bowers falls to the Browns they'd be foolish to not select him. Great choice for them. Hoping we do indeed see two QB's drafted ahead of us. I'll be highly disappointed if they take a WR over a top defensive player.

Actually looking forward to seeing how our current WR's fair in the team's new offense. MoMass will hopefully have a much better third season than he had in 2010; Robiskie probably at best will be a solid WR, but never the team's biggest deep threat; and Mitchell may show the biggest improvement which shouldn't be hard since he was inactive much of the season. I played back part of the Browns 1st pre-season game from last year, and either Donovan or Kosar mentioned Mitchell was the fastest WR on the Browns roster. So he could develop into the best deep threat on the team. He has some legitimate talent. He just might prove to be our best value pick from the 2010 draft.

Best scenario in my view: Browns get Bowers, Peterson, Dareus, or maybe Fairley in the 1st round; then with luck a good OT prospect that can play either LT or RT falls to them in the 2nd round. Not trying to jinx our LT Joe Thomas, but we've been very fortunate he's been able to stay healthy while working in the trenches since he's been with the team. I don't want to see Steinbach have to fill in for him, even if he might be able to do a halfway decent job of it. I also have a hard time believing Pashos is the long-term answer at RT, so the 2nd round OT could challenge him for the starting position as well. Probably the only player who might be available early in the 2nd round who can play either side is Derek Sherrod out of Mississippi State. But even he might be off the board by then. I felt we had an OT in camp last year who could play either side but he was let go in the final cuts. Can't recall his name off-hand but he had played for the Bengals previously. Probably was a better OT than St. Clair or Pashos. Mystery to me why he was let go in favor of them, but I do understand as fans we only see alot of the players playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers. Regardless, we need a better RT and someone capable of competently backing up Thomas at LT.

Sticking with the O-line, while watching last year's 1st pre-season game against the Packers I was highly impressed with OG Shawn Lauvao. No doubt in my mind we have a good starter in him. So RT has to be addressed, hopefully with someone capable of also playing LT. Then Pashos can back up at RT. Probably need to consider an OG as well who can upgrade the depth behind Steinbach. Pork Chop is injured alot, although he probably could backup both OG positions well.

Have to believe we'll see a huge effort made to improve the talent in the trenches, especially on the defensive side of the ball. As Heckert said, "We know we need D-linemen and we know where to find them." Quote may not be exact but at least close to it. Hopefully Jayme Mitchell will contribute well since we gave up a draft pick for him during the season last year. I don't recall seeing him on the field, so my guess is they knew the defensive scheme was going to be changing and got him for this upcoming season.

Iamcanadian
03-26-2011, 01:41 PM
You are going to see Bowers all over draft boards till he works out and the doctors get to examine his knee. Could easily jump back up into top 5 talk or could drop way down. Just no way to guess how good his knee is???

OhioJB
03-26-2011, 02:46 PM
Yeah, I doubt Bowers will be there, but as you said who knows until he works out and is checked out by team doctors. I keep having to remind myself that there is enough top-tier talent that the Browns will have at least a couple great players to chose from. Which also means they may receive a couple good offers from teams that want to jump up to #6. Considering the depth of 1st round D-line and even O-line talent, I wouldn't mind dropping down, picking up a couple extra picks and still getting a long-term starter for the trenches. There are also some good CB's that will be available mid-late 1st round to pair up with Haden. Of course we probably wouldn't want to trade out of the spot if certain players fall to us.

If we do trade down I hope they draft an OT that can play both sides. I tried figuring out who might be there for us in the 2nd round at that position, and doubt anyone capable will be. Even if Sherrod or Carimi fall to the 2nd they'll be snapped up before we pick. There'll be good D-linemen and WR's that can help the Browns available in the 2nd and 3rd round; a couple good OG's maybe in the 4th (Moffitt and Rackley); and hopefully they'll wait to draft another QB until the 6th or 7th round (compensation pick). QB's Potts and McElroy may make good developmental players.

Looking for the Browns to have a great draft. Hope they don't disappoint us.

Brown Leader
03-27-2011, 08:37 PM
He was already on top my board but after seeing his first draft piece I have an official man crush. Here's a part: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81eeed65/First-draft-J-J-Watt I love going to the stadium everyday and knowing that it's me against you. And by the end of the day it's my job to make you so tired and beat up that you don't want to play against me.

Holmgren has always seemed to prefer bigger defensive lineman but Quinn is regarded as the top DE. Mayock top 32 I think has Quinn at #6 - Bowers #10 - Watt #12. I don't have a good read on Quinn other than what's been said and some clips-I only saw a couple UNC games in 09 and he didn't stand out to me. Mayock jumping on him late reminds me a little of his infatuation with Ayers last year. I'm thinking Fairley, being primarily a pass rusher not a run defender or space eater, won't be especially high in Jauron's defense.

They've made no indication but I'd like to see them use some 3-4 looks along with the base 4-3. I've been hearing that more teams are going that route-Jacksonville, Buffalo, Tampa and I think NE, Oakland, Baltimore already run something like that.

OhioJB
04-01-2011, 05:43 PM
Watt will no doubt be a solid NFL player, but I wonder if they'll want to consider more of a pass rusher at #6 if they draft DL there. I do like Watt's tough mentality and would have no problem with the Browns drafting him, especially if they trade down a couple of spots and pick up a couple extra picks.

Just read on GBN Report that Bowers was slow at his pro day, keeping NFL team officials worrying about his knee. Odds are he'll be available at #6. If the Browns' doctors think he'll be ok in time, he could be a steal even that high in the draft.

Ironic, after all the Cam Newton hype, Jake Locker is now being talked about as possibly being the 2nd QB off the board. I realize he was considered a possible 2010 1st overall selection if he had come out then, but many were talking about him possibly going to Seattle at #25. Could he end up a top 5 pick now? One of the intriguing players to watch as far as where he goes.

Edit to add: Just read the thread on Bowers. Micro-fracture surgery (or the possibility of it?) should push him down quite a ways, if true.

Tom Servo
04-01-2011, 06:12 PM
I doubt we take Watt at 6 but I just realized he's a clone of Grant Wistrom, who had a couple good years under Holmgren.

Iamcanadian
04-02-2011, 03:43 PM
If we don't draft Julio, he suits a WCO better than Green because of his blocking skills, I think we will draft Quinn, a solid high sack guy if he is still available.
We will know if the draft will go our way, if 2 QB's go in the top 5.
I, myself prefer Quinn because a solid WR can be found in round 2 in this year's draft.

ChazMonk
04-02-2011, 04:56 PM
I doubt we take Watt at 6 but I just realized he's a clone of Grant Wistrom, who had a couple good years under Holmgren.

I'm glad you brought up Watt. Forget the great "workouts" this kid has had. I watched him in several games this year and he is a high energy, disruptive player. He would make a gret 4-3 DL that could probably go inside to DT when needed.

I would love to see us trade down a few spots, take Watt and get an extra 3rd/4th round pick. I can see JJ Watt being a staple on our DL for years to come. His potential is through the roof IMO.

Then, we can still get a really good DT with the second round pick.

TheFinisher
04-03-2011, 08:23 PM
There's been some rumblings around Cowboy circles that Dallas and Cleveland have discussed a possible trade if Peterson makes it to 6. The deal would supposedly involve Dallas' 3rd Round pick (70th overall). Just something to look out for.

Tom Servo
04-04-2011, 03:44 PM
Its a good year for a trade down, unless Dareus miraculously falls to 6.

Give up those picks you stole from us in '07 Jerry

Brown Leader
04-05-2011, 01:13 AM
I'd be shocked if Peterson makes his way to #6.

Iamcanadian
04-05-2011, 10:34 AM
Mayock's new top 32 is out but even he admits, it won't be the way the draft will proceed.
If we go DL, then it will be either Quinn or Fairley, if it's WR, obviously it will be between Jones and Green. It is definitely going to be someone among these 4 guys.
Peterson will be gone, Bowers is in a deep fall, the QB's will be gone, and Dareus and Miller will be off the board.
You can forget a trade down unless we want to pass on both WR's and even then I cannot see any team paying much to move up since both WR's are likely to still be available, so why trade with us.
Our only chance for a trade down will be if either Newton or Gabbert slides.

j05son
04-06-2011, 12:56 AM
Browns pre-draft visits and/or workouts.

Quarterbacks:
Andy Dalton - Texas Christian
Colin Kaepernick - Nevada
Cam Newton - Auburn

Runningbacks:
Demarco Murray - Oklahoma
Shane Vereen - California

Wide Receivers:
Edmund Gates - Abilene Christian

Tight Ends:
Ryan Taylor - North Carolina

Tackles:
James Brewer - Indiana
Gabe Carimi - Wisconsin
Jah Reid - Central Florida
Tyron Smith - Southern California

Guards:
John Moffitt - Wisconsin
Will Rackley - Lehigh

Defensive Ends:
Da'Quan Bowers - Clemson
Brooks Reed - Arizona

Defensive Tackles:
Marcell Dareus - Alabama
Nick Fairley - Auburn
Andrew Soucy - Eastern Kentucky
Phil Taylor - Baylor

Linebackers:
Von Miller - Texas A&M

Defensive Backs:
Prince Amukamara - Nebraska
Curtis Brown - Texas
Brandon Burton - Utah
Chris Culliver - South Carolina
Marcus Gilchrist - Clemson
Patrick Peterson - Louisiana St
Buster Skrine - Tennessee-Chattanooga
Devon Torrence - Ohio St
Demarcus Van Dyke - Miami
Aaron Williams - Texas

Tom Servo
04-06-2011, 01:28 AM
not enough DEs on that list

j05son
04-06-2011, 02:50 AM
Yeah, I thought DE was lacking. I was surprised we didn't check out Green or Jones and disappointed we didn't work out Quinn and Austin from NC. Maybe we had talked to them during the combine?

Iamcanadian
04-06-2011, 11:19 PM
Interesting list which could mean 2 things, Holmgren doesn't want to give away his intentions, you'd be surprised how often teams completely ignore the player they intend to draft so as to damper teams who might trade up past them to secure the player they most want. Or, they are far more interested in drafting a DT like Fairley over the DE's who are available.
Looks like CB may be in the round 2 discussion.

keylime_5
04-26-2011, 06:15 PM
IMO it's Jones, Quinn, or Fairley at #6. Peterson and Green will be gone I think.

marshallb
04-26-2011, 09:22 PM
Plenty of rumors out there about a Vikings-Browns trade, with the Browns moving up from the second and giving up their 2012 first. Here's a link (http://www.nationalfootballauthority.com/2011/04/2011-nfl-draft-cleveland-browns-and_26.html).

What do you guys think about this?

Brown Leader
04-26-2011, 10:31 PM
Plenty of rumors out there about a Vikings-Browns trade, with the Browns moving up from the second and giving up their 2012 first. Here's a link (http://www.nationalfootballauthority.com/2011/04/2011-nfl-draft-cleveland-browns-and_26.html).

What do you guys think about this?

A.J. and J.J. ?

http://www.desertdogdecals.com/image/cache/data/winning_duh-120x120.jpg

initial_flo
04-26-2011, 10:39 PM
I'm usually not one for leveraging the future after seeing what went down with the Brady Quinn move.

Target the the high second round version of whatever you want to draft at 12 and hold on to the 1st. You know, if any of this actually has a shot of happening.

You guarantee me AJ and JJ lol, then its on.

Brown Leader
04-27-2011, 12:26 AM
I'd also take two defensive lineman in that scenario. Course one of them being Watt but then Fairley or Quinn or Liuget. Then the best WR available in the 3rd.

Iamcanadian
04-27-2011, 11:47 AM
I think Quinn will slide, although his brain tumour is gone, the doctors are indicating that it can return, I doubt we take a shot at #6.
Our pick will be between Jones and Fairley, Jones is the slightly higher ranked player and fits a WCO to a tee, so I'm guessing he will be the pick at #6.
Forget Peterson and Green, they won't reach us.

Why would we want Watt, he a 3-4 DE and we are switching to a 4-3.

Iamcanadian
04-27-2011, 11:56 AM
There is zero chance we make a trade up. We already have one of the lowest # of draft picks on our roster among all NFL teams due to ridiculous drafting and ugly trades. We aren't in any position to give up picks if we have any intention of ever becoming a contending team.
Give up our 2nd this year and our 1st next year, we might as well carve a seat at the top 5 draft table for the next 5 years.
These types of rumours appear every year and almost never see the light of day and that is where this rumour belongs.

Tom Servo
04-27-2011, 03:23 PM
^^^Agreed. If we're talkin trade with Minny its about us movin down.

initial_flo
04-28-2011, 01:00 PM
I keep hearing on 850am that there may or may not be a deal with the Pats working. Our 6th, for the Pats 17th and 28th.

I'd not consider doing it if one of the 4 elite talents are there.

But if the Pats would still want that deal otherwise I'd have to think hard about it. 17, 28, and 37 sounds awesome in a deep draft however I think Julio may very well be TO with less diva.

I'm torn whether I'd actually do it, but if it happened I wouldn't be upset at all.

Tom Servo
04-28-2011, 01:59 PM
I'd take that trade in a heartbeat. I'd look like Hillis plowing and stiff arming my way to the phones. 3 of the first 37 would be spectacular

Bosanac01
04-28-2011, 08:05 PM
How you guys like the trade?

initial_flo
04-28-2011, 10:18 PM
How you guys like the trade?

We trade down to stockpile and I can at least deal with it.

The trading of the stockpile to move up 6 spots I hate.



About the Falcons, you guys better be ready to roll with what you have for several years. You will be pretty empty for a while.

keylime_5
04-28-2011, 11:54 PM
Love the trade. Extra 1st, 2nd, and two extra 4th round picks. We are a young rebuilding team that needs all the talent it can get, and we have to build via the draft. Atlanta is gonna be a scary offense with Roddy White, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, Michael Turner, and Matt Ryan. That 1st round pick next year will be in the 25-32 range. Everybody wins.

Iamcanadian
04-29-2011, 12:26 AM
Looks OK on paper till you realize that by the 27 pick, you are in reality looking at round 2 talent and it will get even worse next year when Atlanta uses Jones to finish in the 29-32 range.
So in reality, we got 2 second round talents, a 3rd round talent and 2 fifth round talents.
Where are you going to find impact players which every contender has that late in the draft. Likely we are looking at 3 rather average starters and not much more.
Ugh and more Ugh.

Tom Servo
04-29-2011, 12:49 AM
I loved the trade. Curious move trading back up for Taylor tho. Rubin's still under contract right? Maybe we have our version of the Williams wall, or Goose/Sam Adams front. Gonna be hard to run against us

SuperPacker
04-29-2011, 07:51 AM
What did the Browns trade with Kansas or the 21st pick?

keylime_5
04-29-2011, 11:20 AM
their 3rd rounder.

Brown Leader
04-29-2011, 01:32 PM
Looks OK on paper till you realize that by the 27 pick, you are in reality looking at round 2 talent and it will get even worse next year when Atlanta uses Jones to finish in the 29-32 range.
So in reality, we got 2 second round talents, a 3rd round talent and 2 fifth round talents.
Where are you going to find impact players which every contender has that late in the draft. Likely we are looking at 3 rather average starters and not much more.
Ugh and more Ugh.

Belichick has not had a problem identifying talent in the 2nd round range. I'd rather have more picks in the second than high first picks. It also gives us leverage to go way up next year if we like a key guy.

Solid trade and initially looks good for both. I also like getting Taylor. I've been saying since I first scouted him that he'd actually be better in a 43 than 34. It gives us two solid two gappers to kick off the new defense-it's what Jauron's D in Chicago was like. The only thing I don't like is that KC forced us to give up our 3rd to get him when Baldwin was probably really their guy-oh well, that's the game.

In the 2nd I'd love us to target WR Greg Little and either Jabaal Sheard, Aaron Williams, or Ras I Dowling. Maby even a RT like Jah Reid. Brooks Reed works too.

fear the elf
04-29-2011, 02:12 PM
Looks OK on paper till you realize that by the 27 pick, you are in reality looking at round 2 talent and it will get even worse next year when Atlanta uses Jones to finish in the 29-32 range.
So in reality, we got 2 second round talents, a 3rd round talent and 2 fifth round talents.
Where are you going to find impact players which every contender has that late in the draft. Likely we are looking at 3 rather average starters and not much more.
Ugh and more Ugh.

If you have a good GM, you get 1st round talent out of the first round, no matter where you pick. It's about projecting how the player performs through their career, not who has the most "upside."

I think Heckert is a good GM and knows how to work the draft. I love the trade, although I did want Julio. I didn't like the pick much last night, but I've definitely started to come around now that I've done a little more research on Phil.

I think this is the nicest response I can muster. In general, I never see eye-to-eye with you IAC, and your negativity never ceases to amaze me.

Brown Leader
04-29-2011, 02:35 PM
I like the thought of getting Bowers in the 2nd. That's a massive chip he'd be entering the league with. Hankerson or Little after that would be perfect! It will prob be OT though.

fear the elf
04-29-2011, 02:48 PM
I like the thought of getting Bowers in the 2nd. That's a massive chip he'd be entering the league with. Hankerson or Little after that would be perfect! It will prob be OT though.

I'm pretty worried about Bowers. How bad must that knee be to have fallen from sure Top 5 to out of the 1st Round? I know the 2nd is the time to gamble on massive talents with question marks, but I just don't know that our team is good enough to spare a second round pick. I'd feel a lot better with Brooks Reed if we are talking only about DE's.

We shall see though...

Dowdy
04-29-2011, 02:55 PM
I was at first a bit surprised with both the trades. In the moment, I was fairly disgruntled because I spent months researching 5-10 players that could have been picked by us at 6, and then we moved backed. Then, we trade up to take Phil Taylor who seems to have a redundant skill set to that of Rubin. After thinking about it, however, the pick started to grow on me. We now have to very stout players up the middle who should be very hard to move. In the end, there's no sense bitching about it because that's who we've got and we might as well support the man (all 350 pounds of him).

I'm interested to see who we target in the second round. Bowers is so tempting, but if he has bone on bone in his knee then I'd be hesitant to bring him in.

I'd be interested in a right tackle like Orlando Franklin, Marcus Gilbert, or Ben Ijalana (maybe as a guard). Allen Bailey at DE would also be of interest and would continue to bolster our run stopping ability as a left end.

I'm also intrigued by CB Brandon Harris, LBs Martez Wilson, Bruce Carter, and Akeem Ayers, and WRs Torrey Smith and Greg Little.

I'd look at Greg Romeus in the later rounds if the rehab of his knee is going well. He has the chance to be a real good football player.

SuperPacker
04-29-2011, 03:00 PM
their 3rd rounder.

ooh a 3rd rounder i thought it was a 2nd. Not bad for you guys then.

just wondering as well who do the browns have at DE?

Did yo move Matt Roth and Bowens etc to OLB las year?

And are guys like Roth and Bowens any good?

Thanks for the help :)

Brown Leader
04-29-2011, 04:09 PM
ooh a 3rd rounder i thought it was a 2nd. Not bad for you guys then.

just wondering as well who do the browns have at DE?

Did yo move Matt Roth and Bowens etc to OLB las year?

And are guys like Roth and Bowens any good?

Thanks for the help :)

If I'm not mistaken, Bowens has already been released and Roth is an unrestricted FA. The only guy I can think of is Marcus Bernard but he is a restricted FA. I figure they'll resign Jayme Mitchell, who is also an unrestricted FA, but a guy Heckert said "was the best pass rusher on the team" last season. I'd really like to see a big push for Cullen Jenkins in FA.

Iamcanadian
04-30-2011, 12:22 AM
If you have a good GM, you get 1st round talent out of the first round, no matter where you pick. It's about projecting how the player performs through their career, not who has the most "upside."

I think Heckert is a good GM and knows how to work the draft. I love the trade, although I did want Julio. I didn't like the pick much last night, but I've definitely started to come around now that I've done a little more research on Phil.

I think this is the nicest response I can muster. In general, I never see eye-to-eye with you IAC, and your negativity never ceases to amaze me.

I don't know why it amazes you, I've followed the Browns since Jim Brown was a rookie and over the years, through experience, I believe I have learned what makes an organization solid.
We have traded out of the top 10 twice already into the 20's. Name me one solid organization that has done that when rebuilding.
You finish near the bottom so in the draft, you have a shot at real impact players, that is the whole purpose of having a draft. Trading top 10 picks for picks in the 20's just doesn't work, no solid GM does that, none, zero, zilch, etc.

I can understand Holmgren's desperation because every drafter we have ever had since Lerner owned the team, has been a complete disaster. Holmgren is desperate no doubt but I just think this isn't the way to rebuild. It is going to take time and we will have to pay the piper if we want a winner. Trying for a quick fix just doesn't work IMO, you take the early picks and use them to find the solid foundation of impact players around which you can rebuild the team.

Sure, it is a slow method but it is also a proven method, used by all the great GM's. I'm also a Detroit fan who watched Matt Millen destroy that team for 8 years before Ford finally got rid of him. Mayhew, the new GM, took a team almost completely devoid of talent and started rebuilding them through the draft by using his top 10 picks to set a foundation in place from which a contender can be built. He's doing it the right way and in 3 years, he has brought Detroit back from the dead and they are closing in on being a serious contender, and he didn't do it by trading out of the top 10 into the 20's.

While Matt Millen was the Detroit GM, their fans also accused me of being too negative, now they are surprised how positive I have become. It's simple, I can see if an organization is doing it the right way and stay positive even if it takes time, but after years of plain rotten drafting, I have a hard time staying positive about Cleveland's direction when they are using a method, I know from experience just won't get the job done.
I hope it works out for Holmgren but I'm not holding my breath using this methodology.

initial_flo
04-30-2011, 01:05 AM
Pretty much the best available pass rusher and a high upside receiver? Can't complain about round 2.

What say you guys?

Iamcanadian
04-30-2011, 02:58 AM
[QUOTE=Brown Leader;2588009]Belichick has not had a problem identifying talent in the 2nd round range. I'd rather have more picks in the second than high first picks. It also gives us leverage to go way up next year if we like a key guy.

BB will trade out of round 1 especially if he thinks the team he is trading with could produce a top 10 pick next year, hence the Oakland trade even though it didn't workout as planned.
However, when BB gets a top 10 pick, he doesn't trade out, he uses it to get a building block for his team. See Jerod Mayo.
NE almost always drafts late in round 1 unless a trade provided them with an early pick. You'll notice, they didn't trade out of there earlier pick this year. BB knows that when you are drafting between 25-40, the talent is basically the same, it is usually just in the eye of the beholder that decides which player each GM in that range will pick. BB constantly takes advantage of this fact and likes to pick up an extra pick while still staying in that range. It is a very clever way of maximizing his value. There is a clear method to his madness in trading back.
Using these methods show just how much thought BB has put into learning how to manipulate the draft. You'll never find him giving up a top 10 pick which he can use as a building block to trade back into the 20's, in fact you won't find any GM willing to try that route but we have done it twice in 3 years.

Tom Servo
04-30-2011, 11:53 AM
good 1st and 2nd rds. dunno bout a TE that early tho. need some Big Ten guys now

keylime_5
04-30-2011, 02:26 PM
Marecic was born to play for this team. Love that pick so much. Like the upside that the TE we drafted possesses, and I am all about going best player available regardless instead of just taking the best player at a position of need. Hopefully he pans out as Ben Watson's potential replacement in a couple years. Rounds 4-7 are a crapshoot, hopefully one or two of these guys sticks. I feel good about Marecic sticking as the fullback to replace free agent-to be VIckers.

fear the elf
04-30-2011, 02:40 PM
Marecic was born to play for this team. Love that pick so much. Like the upside that the TE we drafted possesses, and I am all about going best player available regardless instead of just taking the best player at a position of need. Hopefully he pans out as Ben Watson's potential replacement in a couple years. Rounds 4-7 are a crapshoot, hopefully one or two of these guys sticks. I feel good about Marecic sticking as the fullback to replace free agent-to be VIckers.

Jordan Cameron was somebody I liked, but with Acho on the board there, I though he should have been the pick. WTF are we going to do with Cameron, Watson, and Moore? I'm not liking it right now.

Also, is Vickers as good as gone? I like Marecic, but unless Vickers doesn't want to come back, why would we let him go?

Not sure how I feel about this draft Heckert. I was so excited after the trade, a little bummed when we picked Taylor, then bought into it a little over night, then pretty happy after rds 2 and 3, now back down and feeling pretty meh overall...

On another note, the draft coverage has been pretty underwhelming as a whole this year and particularly after the 4th round, it really took a dive. Neither network seems interested in providing expert analysis on the picks. All the discussion is about the QBs or the big name teams. Guess what, at this point in the draft, your viewers are hardcore fans. We don't want to hear the same sh*t you've been spewing for the past 4 months about Cam Newton and the draft is like the Super Bowl for bad teams, how about spreading the love to some of our teams?

I'm seriously getting burnt out on football and the "coverage" provided by networks.

/rant

OSUGiants17
04-30-2011, 03:01 PM
Just found out you guys got Marecic, super jealous. Great pick and a perfect fit. Marecic and Hillis with Hardesty too will be amazing

j05son
05-01-2011, 02:35 AM
Jordan Cameron was somebody I liked, but with Acho on the board there, I though he should have been the pick. WTF are we going to do with Cameron, Watson, and Moore? I'm not liking it right now.

Also, is Vickers as good as gone? I like Marecic, but unless Vickers doesn't want to come back, why would we let him go?

Not sure how I feel about this draft Heckert. I was so excited after the trade, a little bummed when we picked Taylor, then bought into it a little over night, then pretty happy after rds 2 and 3, now back down and feeling pretty meh overall...

On another note, the draft coverage has been pretty underwhelming as a whole this year and particularly after the 4th round, it really took a dive. Neither network seems interested in providing expert analysis on the picks. All the discussion is about the QBs or the big name teams. Guess what, at this point in the draft, your viewers are hardcore fans. We don't want to hear the same sh*t you've been spewing for the past 4 months about Cam Newton and the draft is like the Super Bowl for bad teams, how about spreading the love to some of our teams?

I'm seriously getting burnt out on football and the "coverage" provided by networks.

/rant

Many think that Vickers doesn't fit our new WCO because he has sub-par hands. Although he is an amazing blocker and has great intangibles, a WCO needs a FB that can catch out of the backfield. I would imagine that drafting Marecic means Vickers is on his way out. It doesn't necessarily mean he'll be out this year, but I'd imagine sooner than later. Marecic will start on ST from day one and depending on when Vickers departs, FB.

Brown Leader
05-01-2011, 09:32 PM
first take on the draft-

1.) Loved the trade down. I didn't want to take either of the WRs and the only defensive guy I didn't have a problem with at 6 was Fairley or possibly Watt. Taylor was a guy we paid attention to just before the draft but I thought it was because he might slip to our 2nd round pick after the foot issue broke.

I only caught one game of his, Baylor/Colorado, but he was impressive. The way he crashed into the pocket but sometimes lost leverage getting too high, I thought he'd make a better fit as a 43 DT or 34 DE than 34 NT. I've rewatched and seen some other things, including his performance senior week, and he definitely holds his ground well when he wants to, even against the double team. The PSU character stuff seems overblown and I like that he has some competitive history with Haden. The trade deal was sick and I now think the Falcons gambled too much. Unless Julio comes close to being another TO I don't think they'll end up with fair value.

2.) Sheard was the guy they wanted in the 2nd. I thought Sheard would sneak into the bottom of round 1. At this point he looks like a solid but unspectacular prospect but who knows? I saw little of him at Pitt and thought he might be a better fit at OLB. Some analysts thought he was just the beneficiary of playing outside of Romeus until he had his best season without him there-that's encouraging. He's got a little bit of intimidation to his game and a great name sooo... Little of course was SIC. I've been touting him since Dec. and I hope he can upgrade the slot and also be a big play guy all over the way he was at UNC. He needs to bring that angry/arrogant personality with him and infect our offense with it. Salivating at the prospect of an improved Cribbs and Little on the field together.

4.) Didn't get the Cameron pick at first but I think Evan Moore might be used out wide more this season. I've read somewhere he was listed as a WR heading into this season. I like Cameron but hopefully Watson is the mentor type because he's a big project. I suppose they aren't willing to pay Vickers a substantial salary because he's a fullback-that's my reasoning as to why they'd draft the first FB in the draft. If Marecic can block as well as Vickers in a year or so then I'm fine with it.

5.) Someone help me with the Skrine pick because I don't get it. I guess you have to like his speed and toughness because as a cover guy he's a project. If he can tackle I'll buy in. I really like the Pinkston pick. Doesn't quite look the part but I thought he played well at Pitt. Exposed at the senior week practices at LT and didn't test well at the combine but I thought he held up real well at RT senior week. At this point, just a guy, but I'll wager with added strength he can be a solid starting RT.

7.) If he makes the the 53 roster I like the Hagg pick. Back up depth guy who could help out at both safety spots because the depth is not good. @Piscitelli.

j05son
05-03-2011, 04:50 PM
I've read that Skrine has had like 3 or 4 different coaches (I don't remember if they were DB coaches or DC or whatnot) and that if he can get a stable coach to work with him, it would do wonders.

Brown Leader
05-03-2011, 10:49 PM
Interesting. As I re-think that it could be a matter of team speed on defense. We might have one of the slower defenses in the league. Our LBs, Elam, Brown are all well below average speed. If Skrine makes the team he could add something in nickel/dime-as long as he can tackle.

STsACE
05-04-2011, 08:55 AM
Interesting. As I re-think that it could be a matter of team speed on defense. We might have one of the slower defenses in the league. Our LBs, Elam, Brown are all well below average speed. If Skrine makes the team he could add something in nickel/dime-as long as he can tackle.

Just listened to Skrine's conference call last night on the official Browns site. The kid is very confident and sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder for being overlooked because he's short. He apparently ran a 4.22 40 at his pro-day or something. Extremely fast. I like his chances if he puts in the work.

Our DB coach Henderson likes him as he worked him out personally. He's got work to do, but could be very good in a couple of years.

I like the confidence in the players we picked this year. They're not arrogant, they have the talent, they just need the coaching. Could turn out to be a very instrumental draft in 2-3 years as I believe each guy has a chance to be key contributors with 3-4 being starters and not just okay starters, but good/great starters.

My only question mark lies with Taylor. He reminds me too much of Rubin and I don't see right now how he fits. Of course, we've been watching the 3-4 for years now, so I don't really think anybody can see how he fits and how our D-Line will do outside of Jauron.

Little and Skrine are quickly becoming my 2 favorite from this draft. All the talent needed, the attitude to want to get better and chips on their shoulders. Hopefully they put it together. Gonna be interesting to see how quickly they catch on being theres limited time for them to practice as a team until the lockout is lifted.

fear the elf
05-04-2011, 08:55 AM
I've read that Skrine has had like 3 or 4 different coaches (I don't remember if they were DB coaches or DC or whatnot) and that if he can get a stable coach to work with him, it would do wonders.

I heard the same thing. I believe it was from Heckert in the Day 3 press conference, but not positive. Let's hope that a little stability will help him develop.

Interesting. As I re-think that it could be a matter of team speed on defense. We might have one of the slower defenses in the league. Our LBs, Elam, Brown are all well below average speed. If Skrine makes the team he could add something in nickel/dime-as long as he can tackle.

I agree, our team speed on defense (actually, offense too) is pretty poor, If Buster can get on the field, it would really help. I've heard mixed things on his tackling. We shall see. We know Joe and Sheldon will tackle though, so that should rub off on him if he doesn't do it already.

Now that I've had some time to process the draft, I still can't help being a little upset about both of our 4th round picks.

Jordan Cameron seems like a nice athlete but I don't see how you pass up Sam Acho (who the Cardinals picked immediately after us) at an area of need when TE is pretty well set already.

And Marecic is a great story and player, we all know that, but I don't see why Vickers can't be a WC fullback. He's a top notch blocker and, although he hasn't caught the ball much in Cleveland, he's done it before at Colorado. I just don't see the point in drafting a player at one of the few positions that is a strength.

SolidGold
05-04-2011, 09:41 AM
Is it possible they can move Jordan Cameron to Wideout? He would fit the mold of the big type of target that embodies the ideal WCO WR. He has the athleticism and speed IMO. I was just thinking of how the Seahawks users Mike Williams this past year.

kalbears13
05-04-2011, 12:23 PM
Jauron is planning to play Phil Taylor at the 3 tech because he's quite agile for his size while Rubin will play the nose. There won't be much of a inside pass rush but it will be tough to run inside.

I see Marecic as a great STer. I can see them still keeping both but it's also nice to have an insurance plan if Vickers does decide to skip town.

Jordan Cameron will probably stay at TE. He's over 250 lbs. He was BPA at that point and was apparently "head and shoulders" the best prospect available in Heckert's eyes.

fear the elf
05-04-2011, 12:42 PM
Jauron is planning to play Phil Taylor at the 3 tech because he's quite agile for his size while Rubin will play the nose. There won't be much of a inside pass rush but it will be tough to run inside.

I see Marecic as a great STer. I can see them still keeping both but it's also nice to have an insurance plan if Vickers does decide to skip town.

Jordan Cameron will probably stay at TE. He's over 250 lbs. He was BPA at that point and was apparently "head and shoulders" the best prospect available in Heckert's eyes.

I guess I'm still butt-hurt because I've been want Acho for months and he fell right into our laps in the fourth round and we passed. FFFUUUUUUUUUUUU!

Brown Leader
05-04-2011, 09:19 PM
Jauron is planning to play Phil Taylor at the 3 tech because he's quite agile for his size while Rubin will play the nose. There won't be much of a inside pass rush but it will be tough to run inside.



I was figuring Jauron would run a defense similar to what he ran in Chicago and what the Ravens had before they adopted the 34. Taylor/Rubin should be something like Sam Adams and Siragusa. And the more I hear about Taylor's supposed inability to pass rush, I think he's going to surprise some and be pretty effective.



My only question mark lies with Taylor. He reminds me too much of Rubin and I don't see right now how he fits. Of course, we've been watching the 3-4 for years now, so I don't really think anybody can see how he fits and how our D-Line will do outside of Jauron.


That's a really good thing. Rubin led all defensive lineman in tackles last season playing as a 34 nose. He's shown good range and movement but rushing the passer wasn't his role. In the 4 front, next to Taylor, who has a similar skill set but a better closing burst, it's going to be interesting to see if these guys can collapse the pocket. In any case it's encouraging that we might FINALLY field a good run defense.

bigbuc
05-05-2011, 01:39 PM
After looking at your guys draft I'm liking what you guys did a lot! Taylor and Rubin is 700 pounds of run stopping! Little is the perfect west coast WR. But I also like that if Colt doesn't workout well this year, you now have all the picks you need to move up and get Barkley. I didn't say Luck because I feel the team picking 1st will not trade anything to draft him.

j05son
05-07-2011, 06:48 AM
After looking at your guys draft I'm liking what you guys did a lot! Taylor and Rubin is 700 pounds of run stopping! Little is the perfect west coast WR. But I also like that if Colt doesn't workout well this year, you now have all the picks you need to move up and get Barkley. I didn't say Luck because I feel the team picking 1st will not trade anything to draft him.

If colt falters, we probably wont have to trade up for Barkley and/or may be able to get Luck ourselves. =p

I'm pulling for Colt though.

Iamcanadian
05-07-2011, 08:41 AM
I was figuring Jauron would run a defense similar to what he ran in Chicago and what the Ravens had before they adopted the 34. Taylor/Rubin should be something like Sam Adams and Siragusa. And the more I hear about Taylor's supposed inability to pass rush, I think he's going to surprise some and be pretty effective.


That's a really good thing. Rubin led all defensive lineman in tackles last season playing as a 34 nose. He's shown good range and movement but rushing the passer wasn't his role. In the 4 front, next to Taylor, who has a similar skill set but a better closing burst, it's going to be interesting to see if these guys can collapse the pocket. In any case it's encouraging that we might FINALLY field a good run defense.

Actually in his last 2 stops, Jauron ran a Cover 2 scheme both in Chicago and in Buffalo, where you use smaller DT's who can penetrate and rush the passer.
Considering that the NFL has developed into a passing league, not sure 2 huge DT's will work all that much anymore.

Iamcanadian
05-07-2011, 08:42 AM
If colt falters, we probably wont have to trade up for Barkley and/or may be able to get Luck ourselves. =p

I'm pulling for Colt though.

I agree, if Colt falters, we will be in the running for the #1 overall pick.

OhioJB
05-08-2011, 07:19 AM
Really liked what the Browns did in the draft. Other than the trade itself, it wasn't a spectacular, flashy draft, but the players they chose seem to be good solid picks. Much more enjoyable to watch when your decision makers know what they are doing. TH and MH continued what they started last year, in drafting very tough football players. I watched Phil Taylor's press conference, and listened to Little's radio interview and both came across as tough-minded, mature football players.

I do worry whether Little will stay out of trouble, but if he can the Browns have a 2nd round steal. He and Julio Jones will be compared alot in the coming years to see who's having the better season/career.

The trade itself was incredible. Looking at the players taken between 6-20, I don't see one I'd rather have had than Taylor, a 2nd and 4th this year, and a 1st and 4th next year. Fairley would have been a great talent to line up next to Rubin, but he could become a huge disruption on and off the field. How many personal fouls would fans and coaches be willing to overlook? Great talent, but the risk in that regard was too high. May have more of an attitude problem than he'd like to admit to.

1) DT Phil Taylor - Before the draft he was one of the few players that stuck out to me that was projected to go in the last third of the 1st round. Putting him next to Rubin will go a long way to stuffing the run. Our LB's had to be happy with this pick. For a bigger DT, it sounds like he has a good motor.

2a) DE Jabaal Sheard - Not a flashy pick, but a solid one. We need DE's, and he fits the bill without needing to draft him higher than he was projected. Doesn't appear to have a quick burst judging by the highlights that were shown, but has good size to help stuff the run, and doesn't give up on plays according to scouting reports.

2b) WR Greg Little - As John Lott likes to tell the young men at the Combine, "Get your stinking minds right." If Little can keep his head screwed on straight, on and off the field, he'll be the best WR on the team, immediately. Sounds like he'll fit the WCO perfectly. Excited about this pick, but also apprehensive whether Little will stay out of trouble or not. Hopefully, he'll act as mature as he sounded on the phone during the interview posted on the team's official site. As a sidenote, it was funny to hear him getting on an elevator as he was being interviewed.

4a) TE Jordan Cameron - Outside of the trade this is where I felt TH and MH started earning their paychecks. I didn't like the pick at the time hoping for other players, but after reading and hearing more about Cameron and later the FB, I liked both picks. They could be key pieces to a Super Bowl winning Browns team in the future. Seemed to be initially Cameron was kind of the same player as Evan Moore, but he may have even more upside. Cameron will just need to become a better blocker, as I doubt Moore will ever be strong enough to be real effective in that area of his game.

4b) FB Owen Marecic - Rugged, tough, and talented. At first I thought, "A FB. WTF???" Then they showed the highlights. Great pick! Wouldn't have lasted much longer, I'm sure. I'm a big fan of Vickers, which is why initially I didn't like this, but I'm sure they'll try to bring him back as well. The Browns carried two FB's Vickers' rookie year, so should be able to find a way to do so again. Special teams may be where he finds himself most during year one. At the press conference, MH wouldn't say whether Vickers was tendered or not. Odds are he was. But this Marecic pick is another that excites me for the future of the team.

5a) CB Buster Skrine - Another pick I didn't like initially, but then read he did some returning also. Not only will he be insurance if Cribbs gets hurt, but he might become the punt returner, leaving Cribbs with returning kickoffs and playing WR. Obviously, they wanted to add speed to the secondary. They said he could cover the slot inside well, or play outside, so the expectations are there for him to possibly replace Brown when the time comes, but for the time being maybe play a little when extra DB's are on the field. Hopefully he'll prove good enough to make the team.

5b) OL Jason Pinkston - Some had him ranked as a potential 2nd rounder, but because teams weren't convinced he could play OT, he dropped. Which tells me he's probably an average prospect at OG. Has good size, and reportedly pulls/traps well, so in a couple of years maybe he'll be starting on our OL. Something I was struck by while watching workout footage they showed of him, was how young he looked. And the look on his face made me worry he might be 'soft'. Maybe he just didn't feel comfortable working out in front of the cameras and will be tough-minded while playing. We'll see. Browns gave up two 6th rounders to draft him, so hope it works out.

7) S - Eric Hagg - Even though I felt we needed to add a safety to DB group, I wasn't sure about this pick at first. Thought maybe another DE, or the developmental QB MH talked about before the draft might be taken here. Maybe even a RB to add to the mix. But after learning more about Hagg, this was a good pick. Maybe he'll end up on the PS, but at least he has some talent to work with. The fact he was Nebraska's defensive MVP says alot about him, so wont be shocked if he makes the team. Nebraska also had Amukarama on the team so the fact Hagg beat him out as Def.-MVP is impressive. One problem the Browns have is Ward is great to have out there because he's a very good tackler and his big hits make WR's think twice about catching the ball, but his coverage skills are lacking. And I'm not sure how much his skills will improve in that area. Not saying Hagg will step in and do better, but he'll have a chance of proving himself. More likely he'd end up a backup at FS behind Elam if he makes the team. Will be interesting to see how the DB's play in Jauron's more conventional 4-3 defense. Hard to judge anyone too harshly in the defense Ryan coached for the past two years.

While I'm not overly excited by the Browns draft, I do think it was smart and solid. And the trade back was terrific. Lost a 3rd trading back up, but it was a small price to pay to ensure we got our big DT.

One thing I noticed was our first three selections all had some type of red flag. Taylor was charged with felony aggravated assault in 2007. Those charges were later dropped. Sheard was arrested for an assault in the summer of 2010. And of course Little was suspended for the 2010 season for maintaining an inappropiate relationship with an agent. Little is the only one I worry about a little right now. He comes across as having a bit of wild streak in him. I don't know the stories behind Taylor's and Sheard's assault cases, and Taylor's was 4 years ago. I'm not too worried about them getting into trouble. I know the Browns did extensive research into their backgrounds. Little chance any of them would be Browns if Mangini were still in charge though. hah....

fear the elf
05-09-2011, 02:36 PM
So what do we think our starting lineup is going to be?

..........................Haden - Ward - Elam - Brown
............................Gocong - Jackson - Fujita
........................Benard - Taylor - Rubin - Sheard

Little.......Thomas - Steinbach - Mack - Lauvao - Pashos...Watson......MoMass
...........................................McCoy
..........................................Marecic
............................................Hillis

j05son
05-10-2011, 06:14 AM
QB- McCoy
HB- Hillis
FB- Marecic
WR- Massaquoi
WR- Robiskie
TE- Watson
LT- Thomas
LG- Steinbach
C - Mack
RG- Womack
RT- Pashos

LDE- Sheard
UT- Taylor
NT- Rubin
RDE- Yet to be signed.
WLB- Jackson
MLB- Gocong
SLB- Fujita
CB- Haden
CB- Brown
SS- Elam
FS- Ward

K- Dawson
P- Hodges
R- Cribbs
LS- Pontbriand

Colt will obviously be the man to start the season.

Hillis will be the main back but we should see Hillis getting many breathers with Hardesty healthy.

Marecic will take on FB as Vickers isn't an offensive threat out of the backfield the way Owen will be. Wish Vickers the best as he's one of if not the best blocking FB in the league. WCO needs a more versatile FB in it's scheme.

I expect last years WR's to start the season again. Holmgren has stated many times that he feels the WR's aren't as bad as people think and that our new system will feature them more frequently. Little is a rookie coming off a suspended season at a position that typically takes 2-3 years to grasp. I do expect to see Cribbs as a big time target for us as at WR. WCO is about short-intermediate routes that result in YAC (yards after completion). Cribbs is big, strong and fast and we've all seen what he can do with the ball in space. I think he'll be a perfect WCO WR and he has speed to spread the field.

Watson will no doubt start at TE where he'll build off his career year in '10. Moore and Cameron are big targets who can split wide and are perfect for third downs and in the redzone.

Thomas, Stienbach and Mack are no brainers. Porkchop is one of the better lineman but he always has a revolving door next to him. If Pashos (one of the premier run blockers in the league) can stay healthy, expect our running game to be strong and for us to have one of the better offensive lines in the league. Lauvao and Pinkston are the future but they're just depth for now along with Billy Yates (I actually don't know his contract status but he's a very versatile lineman who can also play C and I felt he played very well before ending up on IR).

We're running a 2 gap 4-3 defense. We're basically running 2 NT who are lining up in the A gaps. Rubin and Taylor are set to stop the run and take on blockers at the same time while pushing the pocket into the QB. I expect Sheard to play the strong side DE while we target someone in free agency for a weakside rush end. Benard at worst will be a situational pass rusher but may be our starting RDE.

Heckert stated awhile ago that he likes Gocong in the middle and that Jackson is the stereotypical WLB. Fujita is obviously a SLB shown by his many stops in 4-3 base defenses.

It's a passing league so your going to see a lot of nickel. Wright will be on the field a lot but Brown and Haden are the starting CBs. I expect Wright to be back and his play will reflect his prior seasons with us and not his last. It's a good thing to have to many corners. Grossi wrote an article about Whitner wanting to play for Cleveland (makes sense on many levels, hometown, Dick Jauron, the fact that a few scouts have stated Elam to be a backup). I wouldn't mind either way but once Elam starting playing football and stopped trying to coach our rookies on the field he was a different player (not a knock on Elam's mentor-ship, just that he was struggling while doing both).

I expect us to be in Gosselin's top 5 special teams rankings again while strong performances from our usual players.

Brown Leader
05-10-2011, 12:29 PM
Actually in his last 2 stops, Jauron ran a Cover 2 scheme both in Chicago and in Buffalo, where you use smaller DT's who can penetrate and rush the passer.
Considering that the NFL has developed into a passing league, not sure 2 huge DT's will work all that much anymore.

In Chicago he preferred 6-5 365 Ted Washington and 6-2 345 Keith Traylor on early downs. His short stint in Detroit he had 6-4 345 Shaun Rogers and 6-4 335 Dan Wilkinson. In Buffalo Perry Fewell was hired as the DC and put in the Tampa 2, using the smaller sized guys. If I'm not mistaken, Holmgren has always preferred larger than 300 lb types along the line, so even with the switch to the 43, I think we'll see an emphasis on stopping the run first.



We're running a 2 gap 4-3 defense. We're basically running 2 NT who are lining up in the A gaps. Rubin and Taylor are set to stop the run and take on blockers at the same time while pushing the pocket into the QB. I expect Sheard to play the strong side DE while we target someone in free agency for a weakside rush end. Benard at worst will be a situational pass rusher but may be our starting RDE.

Exactly. But I'll bet Jayme Mitchell is signed and starts over Bernard.

WR Momass = More suited as a 3rd WR tho. I'd rather see Cribbs start.
OLT Thomas
OLG Steinbach
OC Mack
ORG Yates = Not going to surprise me if he wins a start. Agreed he played well initially before he got hurt. If Womack returns then he's in the mix here or at RT.
ORT Pashos = Probably by default. Part of me thinks Pinkston could challenge here.
TE Watson
QB McCoy = Our little chihuahua
WR Little = If Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin had a baby, he'd be Greg Little. I'd like to see him earn a start. I also heard something about Moore playing here this season.
RB Hillis = He doesn't believe in the curse but I do. Hope Hardesty is healthy.
FB Vickers = Unless he's traded he could be a Brown for at least one more season. I'm not buying Marecic is any more versatile than Lawrence.

DLE Sheard
DLT Rubin
DRT Taylor
DRE Mitchell
SLB Fujita
MLB Gocong
WLB Jackson
LCB Haden
RCB Brown = unless we end up with a hole at S-wouldn't mind seeing Brown move over, even tho that means another season with Wright starting.
SS Whitner = I like it.
FS Ward

K- Dawson
P- Hodges
R- Cribbs/Skrine?
LS- Pontbriand

j05son
05-10-2011, 07:55 PM
Exactly. But I'll bet Jayme Mitchell is signed and starts over Bernard.


I actually thought this too. Not a lot of names in free agency and Heckert likes Mitchell. However I think Mitchell is a LDE and Sheard will move to RDE. Mitchell is a big boy weighing around 285.

fear the elf
05-11-2011, 03:06 PM
I actually thought this too. Not a lot of names in free agency and Heckert likes Mitchell. However I think Mitchell is a LDE and Sheard will move to RDE. Mitchell is a big boy weighing around 285.

Well, if we do resign Mitchell, do you think we see subpackages with Benard and Sheard at DE and Mitchell kicked inside to DT? Or is there any chance we leave Benard at LB and try to bring him off the edge as an additional pass rusher?

j05son
05-12-2011, 12:06 AM
Well, if we do resign Mitchell, do you think we see subpackages with Benard and Sheard at DE and Mitchell kicked inside to DT? Or is there any chance we leave Benard at LB and try to bring him off the edge as an additional pass rusher?

In one of Heckert's pre-draft pressers, he said he was expecting our ends to be 250's max. He also stated that Mitchell (who's a FA) is our best pass rusher. I've also heard him say that none of the coaches have had a chance to look at Benard (who is also a FA - we hold exclusive rights) and that they can only project him as a de for now but have also heard Heckert say that Benard would be a situational pass rusher at worst.

Mitchell 285 lbs
Sheard 265 lbs
Benard 255 lbs.

Seems like Benard could be a RE and played as a rush DE in college (Grand Rapids Community College and Jackson St) where he combined for 46 sacks total with 16 sacks in one year. Not against the best schools or anything, but still a lot of sacks.

Mitchell could swing inside on obvious passing situations to get more pressure in the middle. Benard is definitely versatile enough to be a LB but I would expect to see him on the line just rushing the QB. That's what he does best. It's definitely nice to have guys who are versatile enough to play different positions though.

j05son
05-14-2011, 06:10 PM
No Heckert said his DEs in Philly were 250 lbs maxed, you're mis quoting him. He didn't specify to what he expected in Cleveland just that undersized, light guys work/fit/can be productive.

No, it's not a misquote. Heckert was asked a direct question of how light would he go on DE and he answered that he and Dick [Jauron] had 250 max in Philly. By indirectly answering the media's question with what he used at his previous stop, you can insinuate the same format would be used here or at the very least the blueprint.

Here's an exercise:

ME: "Mike Holmgren, what offense would you be most comfortable running here in Cleveland?"

MH: "Well, I used the west coast offense in Seattle."

Although Mike didn't come out and say "I feel most comfortable in a WCO" he did insinuate that's what he would be most comfortable in running.

OhioJB
05-15-2011, 07:43 AM
During one of the press conferences, Holmgren wouldn't say whether Vickers was tendered, although I'm sure he was. Too good of a player not to get something if we end up losing him. One of the best FB's in the league, and I think catches the ball better than is given credit for. Devasting blocker and has a fiery knock you out attitude. I doubt Marecic his rookie year could equal what Vickers did for the Browns the past couple of seasons.

I don't see why they both can't be on the 53-man roster. The rookie could play ST's like Vickers did his rookie season, and backup at FB. Might come at the expense of someone like Ventrone, but tough decisions have to be made. And even though they've stated Marecic will not play at LB, I'd be interested in finding out if he can play there as well. Although in future years as his rookie year he'll have enough trouble learning FB and ST's at the NFL level.

Overall our braintrust did a good job in the draft. Now I'd like to see QB Pat Devlin and Sanzenbacher signed as rookie FA's. I like Devlin's accuracy and believe he has enough physical ability to develop, even if it's on the practice squad for a year or two.

fear the elf
05-16-2011, 10:07 AM
No, it's not a misquote. Heckert was asked a direct question of how light would he go on DE and he answered that he and Dick [Jauron] had 250 max in Philly. By indirectly answering the media's question with what he used at his previous stop, you can insinuate the same format would be used here or at the very least the blueprint.

While I agree, you can insinuate that, you could also argue that by drafting Sheard in the 2nd round at 265lbs, he is going against that philosophy; or, that is a general guideline not to be followed too strictly.

/devil's advocate

Iamcanadian
05-16-2011, 11:31 AM
While I agree, you can insinuate that, you could also argue that by drafting Sheard in the 2nd round at 265lbs, he is going against that philosophy; or, that is a general guideline not to be followed too strictly.

/devil's advocate

Sounds like we may be using a lot of Cover 2 type defense. Just means smaller DE's whose main job is to rush the passer and not worry so much about stopping the run. Anything 270 and under.
Maybe Rubin and Taylor will spell each other while another smaller DT is used beside both.
Jauron used the Cover 2 while HC of Buffalo so he likes that defense.

j05son
05-16-2011, 05:40 PM
While I agree, you can insinuate that, you could also argue that by drafting Sheard in the 2nd round at 265lbs, he is going against that philosophy; or, that is a general guideline not to be followed too strictly.

/devil's advocate

At the same time, Sheard is a prototypical LDE who are usually bigger.

Also, this is from Grossi

* Jauron expressed some intrigue in experimenting with linebacker Marcus Benard as a full-time defensive end. As a situational pass rusher, Benard, 6-2 and 256 pounds, produced 11 sacks in 21 NFL games under former coach Eric Mangini.

At the very least, Jauron said he expects Benard will continue in a pass rush role on obvious passing downs.

"We definitely have to find out about a lot of (the players)," Jauron said, "but we do believe that that may be a good spot for (Benard) and we've talked about that. It's kind of what we're looking at as we eventually get him here. We'll put his hand on the ground. We'll stand him up. And then we'll make decisions. But absolutely he'll get an opportunity to play that (situational) position, too."

Sounds like we may be using a lot of Cover 2 type defense. Just means smaller DE's whose main job is to rush the passer and not worry so much about stopping the run. Anything 270 and under.
Maybe Rubin and Taylor will spell each other while another smaller DT is used beside both.
Jauron used the Cover 2 while HC of Buffalo so he likes that defense.

Our defensive tackles are Phil Taylor and Ahtyba Rubin - that screams a 2 gap 4-3. Jauron ran a 2 gap at Jacksonville and Chicago and I'm pretty sure with Detriot (you should know that one). The 2 gap 4-3 is not the base defense for a cover 2.

fear the elf
05-17-2011, 10:56 AM
Our defensive tackles are Phil Taylor and Ahtyba Rubin - that screams a 2 gap 4-3. Jauron ran a 2 gap at Jacksonville and Chicago and I'm pretty sure with Detriot (you should know that one). The 2 gap 4-3 is not the base defense for a cover 2.

I've heard that a few times, and i really like the idea of two exceptionally large DT's holding up 3 or 4 blockers freeing up one-on-one's for the DE's. Hopefully we'll actually be able to execute it :)

NFLN was doing their 32 teams in 32 days segment about the Browns, and they were questioning why we let Shaun Rogers go. They thought he could mentor Phil Taylor and teach him how to play.

McGinest questioned why we let go of our linebackers when we need linebackers... They were saying these things as they put the answer right up on the screen, showing how old every single player was. Not to mention the fact that none of those LB's really fit our scheme anymore.

I've got to wonder how Brian Baldinger keeps his job, he's pretty much awful. I'll give Willie McGinest a pass since he's pretty new to the whole media thing.

Iamcanadian
05-17-2011, 12:50 PM
At the same time, Sheard is a prototypical LDE who are usually bigger.

Also, this is from Grossi





Our defensive tackles are Phil Taylor and Ahtyba Rubin - that screams a 2 gap 4-3. Jauron ran a 2 gap at Jacksonville and Chicago and I'm pretty sure with Detriot (you should know that one). The 2 gap 4-3 is not the base defense for a cover 2.

All I'm saying is that Jauron prefers the Cover 2 defense since as a HC, that is what he used when it was his decision, and it fits with smaller DE's.
At this point I'm not sure Rubin and Taylor will be on the field together, as I said, they could rotate and have a 1 gap penetrator play the other DT.
I guess only time will tell which direction they go, I certainly don't know, just suggesting possibilities.

Brown Leader
05-17-2011, 03:59 PM
I've heard that a few times, and i really like the idea of two exceptionally large DT's holding up 3 or 4 blockers freeing up one-on-one's for the DE's. Hopefully we'll actually be able to execute it :)

NFLN was doing their 32 teams in 32 days segment about the Browns, and they were questioning why we let Shaun Rogers go. They thought he could mentor Phil Taylor and teach him how to play.

McGinest questioned why we let go of our linebackers when we need linebackers... They were saying these things as they put the answer right up on the screen, showing how old every single player was. Not to mention the fact that none of those LB's really fit our scheme anymore.

I've got to wonder how Brian Baldinger keeps his job, he's pretty much awful. I'll give Willie McGinest a pass since he's pretty new to the whole media thing.

I saw that too. Rogers is/has always been an undisciplined player, now aging. I def think Rubin is better equipped to mentor a young DT. He's made himself into a starter through hard work and mastering technique.

Did you notice how flat and unemotional the HC looked? He looks like he's been battered down by a tough season already. I have no idea what his on field personality is but he sure didn't look like the guy you choose to get the troops going..lol. Eh, I'm just being overcritical with this lockout humdrum but I'm curious what Rams/Eagles fans thought about his personality.

ArkyRamsFan
05-17-2011, 04:41 PM
I saw that too. Rogers is/has always been an undisciplined player, now aging. I def think Rubin is better equipped to mentor a young DT. He's made himself into a starter through hard work and mastering technique.

Did you notice how flat and unemotional the HC looked? He looks like he's been battered down by a tough season already. I have no idea what his on field personality is but he sure didn't look like the guy you choose to get the troops going..lol. Eh, I'm just being overcritical with this lockout humdrum but I'm curious what Rams/Eagles fans thought about his personality.

Don't know much about Shurmer's personality but I can tell you many if not most Rams fans were very dissatisfied with his play calling during his tenure as Rams OC.

I hope that he progressses in that area as the Browns coach or, better yet, hands over the job to somebody else.

Granted the Rams have a lot of talent issues on the offense, but I still feel he was overly conservative in that he tried not to lose games instead of going for it and making some gutsy calls to win them.

Iamcanadian
05-18-2011, 03:26 PM
Don't know much about Shurmer's personality but I can tell you many if not most Rams fans were very dissatisfied with his play calling during his tenure as Rams OC.

I hope that he progressses in that area as the Browns coach or, better yet, hands over the job to somebody else.

Granted the Rams have a lot of talent issues on the offense, but I still feel he was overly conservative in that he tried not to lose games instead of going for it and making some gutsy calls to win them.

Yeah, it is called a rookie QB. Even then, the Rams almost made the playoffs.

ArkyRamsFan
05-18-2011, 10:46 PM
Yeah, it is called a rookie QB. Even then, the Rams almost made the playoffs.

If Shurmer continues to call games with his new rookie QB, Colt McCoy, like he did with Sam Bradford then the Browns will also be playing not to lose which is usually a recipe just that-losing.

BTW Sam started every game and took every snap last year. At what point is he no longer a rookie?

j05son
05-19-2011, 02:55 AM
If Shurmer continues to call games with his new rookie QB, Colt McCoy, like he did with Sam Bradford then the Browns will also be playing not to lose which is usually a recipe just that-losing.

BTW Sam started every game and took every snap last year. At what point is he no longer a rookie?

When it's not his first year in the league. =p

Honestly though, all OC's limit a lot of the playbook or call a little safer while their young QB transitions into the pro game. You don't want to destroy your QB's confidence by taking shots that end up being mistakes, interceptions, etc.

The only rams game I watched was our preseason game and it was what it was - a preseason game. Not worth analyzing play calling in a game that means nothing as I'm sure they were saving a lot of their playbook or just running generic stuff that's been scouted already.

So I don't have any knowledge of Pat's play calling but I hope he opens it up a bit more as the conservative approach will only go so far with Cleveland fans. I would like to have a head coach for more than 3 seasons...

keylime_5
05-22-2011, 03:55 PM
well it's not like Sam had a very bad year with Shurmur's playcalling so we can't complain if McCoy looks as good as Colt did last year. I think it will be slightly different though in Cleveland now that he is the head coach not just the OC, and playing in the AFC North with Hillis and Hardesty and a legit tight end to throw to and a guy like Josh Cribbs that can do so many things will change the gameplans a little more too. Conservative doesn't mean bad, we've seen more than our fair share of aggressive calls get burned in Browns football over the recent seasons. Jauron and Shurmur might be a little more conservative than what fans prefer, but with a young team that might not be a bad thing.