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JFINK11
01-03-2011, 11:31 AM
Someone please comment on this.... Gabbert at 5? I haven't heard any indications he is coming out and generally hear his name associated with the 2nd - 3rd Round....

"The NFL's regular season is over and the playoff field is set, which means the top 20 of the NFL draft order is also locked in.

Our next full mock first round is still a couple weeks away, but here's a quick look at how I see the top five playing out right now.

All five of the players below are underclassmen who have until mid-January to decide whether they will enter the draft, so this is obviously subject to change. But as things stand today there is little question who the top pick would be.

1. Carolina Panthers -- Stanford QB Andrew Luck
Luck is the highest-graded quarterback since Matt Ryan in 2008 and will be the face of the franchise that drafts him for years to come.

2. Denver Broncos -- Auburn DT Nick Fairley
A versatile lineman with the ability to disrupt plays in the backfield, Fairley would help shore up a defense that has been a mess for some time now.

3. Buffalo Bills -- LSU CB Patrick Peterson
Peterson's combination of size, instincts and athleticism would be an instant upgrade for the Bills both on defense and in the return game.

4. Cincinnati Bengals -- Clemson DE Da'Quan Bowers
The Bengals managed only 27 sacks in 2010 and could use Bowers' quickness and athleticism off the edge, and he can also play the run, too.

5. Arizona Cardinals -- Missouri QB Blaine Gabbert
Gabbert has risen up the board late in the season thanks to the size, arm strength and pocket mobility to develop into an effective starter in the NFL."

xxxxxxxx
01-03-2011, 11:35 AM
He is an idiot, what did you expect?

RealityCheck
01-03-2011, 11:39 AM
McShay is skyrocketing on my Scale of Stupidity.

K Train
01-03-2011, 11:40 AM
first 4 looks good, fairly will go high, probably not that high though.....of course hes gotta throw a wtf with gabbert

RealityCheck
01-03-2011, 11:43 AM
I have Nick Fairley going in the early teens, however I think some team will take him in the top 7, but just not at #2...

wonderbredd24
01-03-2011, 11:48 AM
I have Nick Fairley going in the early teens, however I think some team will take him in the top 7, but just not at #2...
He was the most dominant defensive player in the country.

The biggest knock on Fairley is how he hits opposing quarterbacks.

If he were somehow to last until 6th pick, the Browns better be all over him, but he probably won't get past 2.

And everyone gets their jollies from killing Todd McShay. What a surprise.

AntoinCD
01-03-2011, 11:50 AM
Surely the Bills recently spent a high first round pick on a CB who can help in the return game??? They have problems stopping the run, rushing the passer, protecting the QB and general QB play. But they take a CB? I think they'd have a hard time passing up Bowers, Dareus or Quinn or maybe even Cam Newton

RealityCheck
01-03-2011, 11:52 AM
Talking about Quinn, I don't see how he gets past the Bills and the Bengals.

Bobertchin
01-03-2011, 11:59 AM
Gabbert is a surprise there, but otherwise, the list is solid. I think Fairley will go much higher than he appears in Scott's Dec. 3rd draft, that's for certain.

ThePudge
01-03-2011, 12:05 PM
I don't see the Bengals taking Da'Quan Bowers with Carlos Dunlap ending the season on a high note (9.5 Sacks in 8 games.) The team already is paying a lot of money for Antwan Odom & they seem to have some faith in Michael Johnson as a 3rd-Down pass rusher. Additionally, the team still has Robert Geathers and Frostee Rucker on the roster. I agree they could probably use some help at the position, but there are a few spots on the depth chart that really need to be addressed early (or through free agency.) Wide Receiver and Safety are the two primary needs, where we'll need to add a starter next season. Offensive Guard is a big need, the Bengals will be looking to help up front and the Guard spot offers a chance for the largest upgrade. Linebacker is also a possibility high in the draft as the team may try and replace Dhani Jones. After that, Defensive End, Quarterback, and Defensive Tackle are possibilities.

Much like the situation at Defensive End, the Bengals have some talent and young promise at Defensive Tackle. Geno Atkins had a good rookie year operating as a 3rd-Down rush-specialist inside. Domata Peko is the solid veteran force in the middle. Pat Sims is still young, and is a somewhat effective run-stopper. Tank Johnson was a pretty big disappointment this season. We could use improvement, but I don't know that they'll go for it with the more gaping holes on the depth chart looming.

I imagine Cedric Benson will re-sign with the team, which is why I don't list Running Back.

armageddon
01-03-2011, 12:24 PM
Gabbert has huge potential, but needs major work. 2 years of holding the clipboard would suit him well. He's not good at reading D's, and has trouble finding 2nd and 3rd reads.

regoob2
01-03-2011, 12:36 PM
How can Buffalo take a DB? That won't happen.

jballa838
01-03-2011, 12:37 PM
Gabbert at 5 is major lolz.

bruschis4all
01-03-2011, 12:37 PM
I don't see the Bengals taking Da'Quan Bowers with Carlos Dunlap ending the season on a high note (9.5 Sacks in 8 games.) The team already is paying a lot of money for Antwan Odom & they seem to have some faith in Michael Johnson as a 3rd-Down pass rusher. Additionally, the team still has Robert Geathers and Frostee Rucker on the roster. I agree they could probably use some help at the position, but there are a few spots on the depth chart that really need to be addressed early (or through free agency.) Wide Receiver and Safety are the two primary needs, where we'll need to add a starter next season. Offensive Guard is a big need, the Bengals will be looking to help up front and the Guard spot offers a chance for the largest upgrade. Linebacker is also a possibility high in the draft as the team may try and replace Dhani Jones. After that, Defensive End, Quarterback, and Defensive Tackle are possibilities.

Much like the situation at Defensive End, the Bengals have some talent and young promise at Defensive Tackle. Geno Atkins had a good rookie year operating as a 3rd-Down rush-specialist inside. Domata Peko is the solid veteran force in the middle. Pat Sims is still young, and is a somewhat effective run-stopper. Tank Johnson was a pretty big disappointment this season. We could use improvement, but I don't know that they'll go for it with the more gaping holes on the depth chart looming.

I imagine Cedric Benson will re-sign with the team, which is why I don't list Running Back.

AJ Green to Cincy makes sense to me. Cut the cord with the clown act. Both of em. Get Palmer a weapon he can trust. Keep Benson. They'll be better than you think next year with a 4th place schedule(Buffalo and Denver). NFC West and AFC South.

Halsey
01-03-2011, 12:38 PM
McShay is the guy many love to hate. Lots of people called him an idiot for his opinions on Matt Ryan leading up to the 2008 Draft. If people would get over their emotional dislike of him they'd see he's good at what he does.

jballa838
01-03-2011, 12:40 PM
QWmnKs1FPfk

Todd McShay talking about Gabbert. He's so good, he started for Missouri and Texas in the same year.

keylime_5
01-03-2011, 12:46 PM
Fairley is definitely a top 6 pick, what're you people talking about. Best first step I've ever seen in a college defensive tackle since I've been watching sports.

I love Gabbert's arm and he can make all the throws with great accuracy, I am most curious to see where he'd go if he declares. I wouldn't be surprised to see a team like Buffalo or Arizona reach for a QB in the top 5 like Newton, Mallett, or Gabbert. It's possible that there could be 3 QBs go in the top 5 however unlikely.

regoob2
01-03-2011, 12:47 PM
McShay is the guy many love to hate. Lots of people called him an idiot for his opinions on Matt Ryan leading up to the 2008 Draft. If people would get over their emotional dislike of him they'd see he's good at what he does.

Clausen too. He makes some bone head claims but he's also the only one to go out on a limb and talk about sophomores and juniors.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-03-2011, 12:53 PM
Gabbert has similar tools to Jake Locker without nearly as much of a microscope on him the last couple years

IF he declares, do not be surprised if he goes first round. I was thinking top 15 more than top 5, but you never know

Dude is erratic as hell but someone will fall in love with the tools

Sniper
01-03-2011, 12:54 PM
McShay is the guy many love to hate. Lots of people called him an idiot for his opinions on Matt Ryan leading up to the 2008 Draft. If people would get over their emotional dislike of him they'd see he's good at what he does.

I'll see your Matt Ryan and raise you Andre Woodson and Jevan Snead.

keylime_5
01-03-2011, 12:55 PM
Gabbert can make all the throws already and can put the ball into tight spaces without any difficulty. His only trouble is decision making and polishing the little things. He has the arm and accuracy already, and he'll definitely be a first round pick IMO because of that.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-03-2011, 12:57 PM
I'll see your Matt Ryan and raise you Andre Woodson and Jevan Snead.

yea McShay is basically one of us that somehow got on ESPN. he's not really all that great of an evaluator but that doesn't mean if you dont throw enough darts you wont him on some. remember people clowning on guys who liked josh freeman?

ThePudge
01-03-2011, 12:58 PM
AJ Green to Cincy makes sense to me. Cut the cord with the clown act. Both of em. Get Palmer a weapon he can trust. Keep Benson. They'll be better than you think next year with a 4th place schedule(Buffalo and Denver). NFC West and AFC South.

Green is the primary option at this point but I wouldn't be surprised to see Julio Jones enter the conversation, even in the Top 5. Jones had a breakout Junior season after a disappointing Sophomore campaign. He's a dynamic player with the ball in his hands, and his toughness & physicality will make him attractive to AFC North teams Cleveland and Cincinnati in the Top 6. If he played like he did a year ago, it wouldn't be as big a deal to me, but Jones is going to wow people at the NFL Combine. He's had an NFL body since high school and has startling speed & quickness for his size. His running blocking ability will entice run-heavy teams like the Bengals.

I think it's a real option, though I'd agree Green seems to be the unanimous #1 receiver at the moment.

bucfan12
01-03-2011, 12:59 PM
Gabbart, by most, is a 2nd round prospect. He could jump in the 1st, but this QB class is rediculously weak. Luck is the only QB in this class that should be taken in the top 3. After that, Mallett should be in the teens, maybe later and same with Locker and maybe Gabbert. But honestly, Luck is the only Franchise QB with the other guys being risks in my opinion.

McCshay really doesn't have a clue and neither does Kiper. Mike Mayock is the guy that really knows his stuff. Yeah, sometimes he is wrong and most scouts are, but he sounds intelligent and knows what he is talking about and does a lot of scouting. The other two sound like complete morons.

Really? Nick Fairly at number 2? He isn't an elite DT prospect like Suh and McCoy were last year and wouldn't touch him til about 11-15.

brasho
01-03-2011, 12:59 PM
Who doesn't watch Gabbert closely, watch his big arm, his accuracy, his compact deliver, size, and athletic ability and come away thinking anything other than 1st rounder? Considering he lost Maclin last year and Danario Alexander this past season, he didn't have a whole lot to work with.

He really reminds me of a not quite as big or nimble Josh Freeman coming out of college. But he is big, he runs fairly well in a straight line, has a very good arm, accuracy, and he displays a calm demeanor. I'm impressed with him and would be astonished to see him fall out of the top 16.

brasho
01-03-2011, 01:04 PM
Gabbart, by most, is a 2nd round prospect. He could jump in the 1st, but this QB class is rediculously weak. Luck is the only QB in this class that should be taken in the top 3. After that, Mallett should be in the teens, maybe later and same with Locker and maybe Gabbert. But honestly, Luck is the only Franchise QB with the other guys being risks in my opinion.

.

Ridiculously weak QB class? Really? IF Luck were to come out, there would likely be no less than 5 QBs taken in round 1 with Luck, Newton, Mallett, Gabbert, and Locker likely landing in the first stanza. Then the 2nd-5th round talents are pretty good as well between Colin Kaepernick, Christian Ponder, Andy Dalton, Ricky Stanzi, Pat Devlin, and Greg McElroy being good enough that a team could fall in love with them and take them as high as the 2nd round.

Luck is a fantastic prospect, better than Bradford, as good as Peyton Manning. If he were to come out, this class could eventually rival the '83 class and if he were to not come out it would still be solid.

As far as the other players being "risks", isn't that true of all players? If it weren't, Akili Smith would be among the all-time greats, battling Ryan Leaf head-to-head for All-Pro supremecy.

K Train
01-03-2011, 01:07 PM
Gabbart, by most, is a 2nd round prospect. He could jump in the 1st, but this QB class is rediculously weak. Luck is the only QB in this class that should be taken in the top 3. After that, Mallett should be in the teens, maybe later and same with Locker and maybe Gabbert. But honestly, Luck is the only Franchise QB with the other guys being risks in my opinion.

McCshay really doesn't have a clue and neither does Kiper. Mike Mayock is the guy that really knows his stuff. Yeah, sometimes he is wrong and most scouts are, but he sounds intelligent and knows what he is talking about and does a lot of scouting. The other two sound like complete morons.

Really? Nick Fairly at number 2? He isn't an elite DT prospect like Suh and McCoy were last year and wouldn't touch him til about 11-15.

ridiculously weak? lol sure

wonderbredd24
01-03-2011, 01:09 PM
yea McShay is basically one of us that somehow got on ESPN. he's not really all that great of an evaluator but that doesn't mean if you dont throw enough darts you wont him on some. remember people clowning on guys who liked josh freeman?
What an unbelievable load of crap.

You can point out anyone in this business and they have a ton of misses and big misses.

The only thing that McShay is really bad at is mock drafts.

roscoesdad27
01-03-2011, 01:13 PM
1) Mallet and Newton def. better than Gabbert.

2) Fairly could very easily go #2 to denver but I give the slight edge to peterson right now.

3) I would be shocked if buffalo went c.b..

4) Cinci seems set at d.e., esp. l.e. with dunlap, johnson and odom....if anything a pure r.e. like quinn would be more likely but all in all I think they take and should take a.j. green.

bucfan12
01-03-2011, 01:17 PM
Cam Newton is a raw prospect and reminds me of a bigger version of Vince Young. He won't be running all over people in the NFL like he is doing now.

Locker supposedly the only reason the Huskies win ball games. Not entirely. Watch the most recent Nebraska game. He is awful and I don't think he is going to be a 1st round pick. Last year I compared him to Charlie Frye. My comparison still stands.

Ryan Mallett has all the tools to become a starting QB, but his leadership ability has questioned my self and many others. He is a high risk high reward type prospect.

Gabbart, same thing. Comes from that spread offense, where not many QBs have been able to adjust. He's got some tools, but again, his play really took a dive after that Oklahoma game.

The one QB I like in rounds 2-5 is Pat Devlin. Dude was a top prospect coming out of HS going into Penn Sate and they completely ruined him. He has some upside and needs some development and should sit for a year or 2. He'd be a nice pick for a team like the Bengals in the 3rd round.


So seriously, this class isn't as strong as it looks people.

bucfan12
01-03-2011, 01:19 PM
Are you serious about McElroy and Dalton? Yea, maybe as career back ups. Just because you're great in college doesn't mean you'll be great in the NFL. Remember Ken Dorsey? Rex Grossman? Heck, even Chad Henne or Brady Quinn come to mind.

ThePudge
01-03-2011, 01:25 PM
Cam Newton is a raw prospect and reminds me of a bigger version of Vince Young. He won't be running all over people in the NFL like he is doing now.

I don't think anyone who believes in him being successful as a pro believes he'll be an elite rushing Quarterback. He has tremendous raw ability as a passer. I think he'll be groomed as a pocket passer. His ability to run, prolong plays, and pick up first downs is nice, but it's his upside as a pocket passer that will make him a high selection.

keylime_5
01-03-2011, 01:30 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how there are actually people out there that still think Jake Locker will go in the first round.

RealityCheck
01-03-2011, 01:32 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how there are actually people out there that still think Jake Locker will go in the first round.
Me too, pal. Me too. But remember, people who think Locker ain't a first round pick are trolls.

Babylon
01-03-2011, 01:42 PM
I actually hope Todd is right on this one, although i dont think he is. Gabbert going in the top 5 is going to make a lot of other teams very happy by pushing better QBS down the board.

In all honesty the guy should stay another year and be in the conversation for the top signal caller next year, he may be in trouble by getting advice from people who may or may not know what they're talking about.

keylime_5
01-03-2011, 01:44 PM
2) Fairly could very easily go #2 to denver but I give the slight edge to peterson right now.


I could see Peterson or Fairley to Denver. The only thing that bugs me with Peterson going #2 to Denver is that they'll be replacing Bailey with Peterson so they probably won't get much better next year by the move, though in the long run they'll maintain having an elite CB. With Fairley they change things up by trying to help their defensive line instead of building outside-in and build their secondary.

ElectricEye
01-03-2011, 01:47 PM
Gabbert is nowhere near that good. Not even close. Lots of potential, but I just don't even see him as a first round prospect at this point. He made the single worst throw I've seen in college football in a big situation with that fourth quarter interception to Micah Hyde. You could see he was going to put the ball there right from the snap. He's got good mobility, but he takes off after making two reads and his footwork on the move really isn't that good. Footwork in general is a real weakness for him, actually. Most of the time that's an easy thing to fix, but he has pretty significant issues with lower body mechanics.

Scott Wright
01-03-2011, 01:51 PM
I have been singing Gabbert's praises for months. Just ask Shane.

I think he's a first rounder if he comes out and there is a chance he could could ahead of guys like Mallett and Newton, who both have some major questions that need to be answered.

ThePudge
01-03-2011, 01:51 PM
Me too, pal. Me too. But remember, people who think Locker ain't a first round pick are trolls.

Locker's probably a First Round Pick. I'm not saying anyone is a troll, whoever doesn't like him isn't completely in their rights not to like him. He's largely a mystery, but is a player with excellent tools both physically & mentally. Injuries are a concern and he's still certainly a bit more raw than you'd hope as a passer, but he had to play the hand he was dealt at Washington. There's still a chance he goes Top 10 and while I think he's a risk there it's tough to deny his upside & raw talent.

Black Bolt
01-03-2011, 01:55 PM
yea McShay is basically one of us that somehow got on ESPN. he's not really all that great of an evaluator but that doesn't mean if you dont throw enough darts you wont him on some. remember people clowning on guys who liked josh freeman?

Yeah, but he was RIGHT about Vernon Gholston.

RealityCheck
01-03-2011, 01:56 PM
Locker's situation is exactly the same as Clausen's last year. Everybody was saying wonders about him and how he should be a Top 10 pick. On Draft Day, he'll fall to the 2nd round and in the NFL, we'll see what he's really made of.

wordofi
01-03-2011, 02:00 PM
Gabbert has huge potential, but needs major work. 2 years of holding the clipboard would suit him well. He's not good at reading D's, and has trouble finding 2nd and 3rd reads.

He would benefit greatly by staying another year. He still has huge potential though.

wordofi
01-03-2011, 02:01 PM
Locker's probably a First Round Pick. I'm not saying anyone is a troll, whoever doesn't like him isn't completely in their rights not to like him. He's largely a mystery, but is a player with excellent tools both physically & mentally. Injuries are a concern and he's still certainly a bit more raw than you'd hope as a passer, but he had to play the hand he was dealt at Washington. There's still a chance he goes Top 10 and while I think he's a risk there it's tough to deny his upside & raw talent.

I think Locker is going to be really good or really bad.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-03-2011, 02:06 PM
Yeah, but he was RIGHT about Vernon Gholston.

i mean i'm not saying otherwise. he's had plenty of good predictions to go with awful ones like jevan snead. just like there's a bunch of people on here who rightfully hated jimmy clausen (along with mcshay) but i'm sure were on the nuts of someone who sucked

i havent really seen anything from his analytical skills to suggest he's worth listening to like a mayock (who still has his share of misfires) but neither has he been so much of a clown that I just totally ignore him. I think he's passing up Kiper as far as ESPN personalities...Kiper gets on the trains of guys too much and wont call out players with issues

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-03-2011, 02:06 PM
I think Locker is going to be really good or really bad.

Locker is a joke.

I am going to laugh at the team who takes them before Round 3.

Seriously.

keylime_5
01-03-2011, 02:15 PM
people are gonna see Locker's awful accuracy on his film and he'll drop like a rock. His athleticism and intangeables are great, he has the arm and the mobility, but he isn't a good passer and that's what QBs do in the NFL. If Brady Quinn fell like he did b/c of accuracy and Clausen fell all the way to round 2, then Locker will too.

Unbiased
01-03-2011, 02:16 PM
Cam Newton is a raw prospect and reminds me of a bigger version of Vince Young. He won't be running all over people in the NFL like he is doing now.

Locker supposedly the only reason the Huskies win ball games. Not entirely. Watch the most recent Nebraska game. He is awful and I don't think he is going to be a 1st round pick. Last year I compared him to Charlie Frye. My comparison still stands.

Ryan Mallett has all the tools to become a starting QB, but his leadership ability has questioned my self and many others. He is a high risk high reward type prospect.

Gabbart, same thing. Comes from that spread offense, where not many QBs have been able to adjust. He's got some tools, but again, his play really took a dive after that Oklahoma game.

The one QB I like in rounds 2-5 is Pat Devlin. Dude was a top prospect coming out of HS going into Penn Sate and they completely ruined him. He has some upside and needs some development and should sit for a year or 2. He'd be a nice pick for a team like the Bengals in the 3rd round.


So seriously, this class isn't as strong as it looks people.

The easiest thing to do in the entire world is be a draftnik who hates on QB prospects.

Scott Wright
01-03-2011, 02:19 PM
The easiest thing to do in the entire world is be a draftnik who hates on QB prospects.

That is so true.

There are plenty who thought Ryan Leaf was better than Peyton Manning.

In fact, in a debate situation I bet I could make a strong case against Andrew Luck too.

It's very easy to rip people apart.

Black Bolt
01-03-2011, 02:23 PM
i mean i'm not saying otherwise. he's had plenty of good predictions to go with awful ones like jevan snead. just like there's a bunch of people on here who rightfully hated jimmy clausen (along with mcshay) but i'm sure were on the nuts of someone who sucked

i havent really seen anything from his analytical skills to suggest he's worth listening to like a mayock (who still has his share of misfires) but neither has he been so much of a clown that I just totally ignore him. I think he's passing up Kiper as far as ESPN personalities...Kiper gets on the trains of guys too much and wont call out players with issues

I agree, but my point in his calling out Gholston was that he was the ONLY draft analyst willing to go there. I was yelling on this board about how overrated he was as a player on the field when everyone else including Mayock, Kiper, etc. would not even acknowledge his lack of production. That counts more than being wrong on a guy that most other people were wrong on. See what I mean?

romo4prez415
01-03-2011, 02:24 PM
I think Gabbert is a 1st round pick. You simply cannot deny his arm strength and accuracy. There are things he needs to improve upon but the raw tools are there along with the right mental makeup. I will bet my posting rights Locker goes in the 1st round. If Tim Tebow who is alot like Locker except not as polished and not as athletic went in the 1st there is no way Locker slides out of the 1st. The only Qb that will slide is Mallett like Clausen because of those intangibles. No team will invest in qb's with bad intangibles in the 1st round after the busts at the qb position.

Babylon
01-03-2011, 02:26 PM
Locker's situation is exactly the same as Clausen's last year. Everybody was saying wonders about him and how he should be a Top 10 pick. On Draft Day, he'll fall to the 2nd round and in the NFL, we'll see what he's really made of.

This is further proof that any thread can morph into a Jake Locker thread with very little effort.

The differance with Clausen last year and Locker this year is one had Floyd, Rudolph and Tate the other had Kearse, Aguillar and Goodwin. Just saying.

Black Bolt
01-03-2011, 02:28 PM
That is so true.

There are plenty who thought Ryan Leaf was better than Peyton Manning.

In fact, in a debate situation I bet I could make a strong case against Andrew Luck too.

It's very easy to rip people apart.

Do you really think that people are ripping Jake Locker apart? The fact is people are bending backward to make excuses for him rather than just admit he has been overrated and did not develop as people thought he would two years ago. I can't understand why some many people here are so emotionally invested in this prospect.

K Train
01-03-2011, 02:29 PM
locker used to just get a free pass on things most players get torn apart on....ive never seen a prospect go from so overrated to so underrated so fast

bucfan12
01-03-2011, 02:38 PM
The easiest thing to do in the entire world is be a draftnik who hates on QB prospects.

It's not just that. Maybe I was off saying this is weaker than 2010 QB class, because that class is weaker than 2011 with the exception of Bradford of course, who is an absolute stud.

Honestly, besides Luck, all of these QB's have a ton of question marks. You can't just look at a guy like Cam Newton and think he'll be excellent in the NFL. Vince Young is a prime example and comparison. Everyone thought he had a great arm and was a raw passer coming out, but the offense he played in made padded his stats and made it look like he was more accurate than he was. I haven't really seen one snap Newton has taken under center. He's out of the shotgun 99.9% of the time. Can he a successful qb in the nfl? Maybe. But he should go back to school for his sr year.

I haven't watched alot of Gabbert, but I saw the Oklahoma game, where he looked very good and accurate. But, again, his play dropped a bit after that game. Again, another qb who plays in the spread. Hard to evaluate.

Locker? the film speaks for itself on him. Scouts said he was better than Bradford at this time last year. Clearly, that is not the case.

jballa838
01-03-2011, 02:43 PM
Locker has 3.5 times the film of Cam Newton and twice the film of Gabbert, Mallett, and Luck. Of course he is going to be picked apart.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-03-2011, 02:47 PM
Locker has 3.5 times the film of Cam Newton and twice the film of Gabbert, Mallett, and Luck. Of course he is going to be picked apart.

He's got 5x as much bad film as well.

His college career ending with a 5/17 59 yard showing.

Washington finished 99th in passing accuracy and were even more horrendous 3rd down % wise all year. Going against bad defensive teams most of the season as well.

Locker cannot hide from this.

bucfan12
01-03-2011, 02:50 PM
Locker still isn't the Prospect that Luck is.

Currently my top QB prospects stand:
1. Luck Grade: Top 3 1 overall.
2. Mallett: Mid to late 1st.
3. Gabbert: 2nd round
4. Locker: 2nd round
5. Newton: 3rd round

Just because he has more film, doesn't mean he is better than those guys. Luck is an elite prospect and only one that deserves to be picked in the top 5 let alone the top 10.

jballa838
01-03-2011, 02:50 PM
He's got 5x as much bad film as well.

His college career ending with a 5/17 59 yard showing.

Washington finished 99th in passing accuracy and were even more horrendous 3rd down % wise all year. Going against bad defensive teams most of the season as well.

Locker cannot hide from this.
oh. my. tell me. Who is your #1 QB? Let me use stats to rip them to shreds, just once. Did you even see the 5/17 game? he threw at least 6 into the ground or out of bounds and had 2 drops. wow. 5/9. that's 55% against one of the best defenses in the nation

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-03-2011, 02:52 PM
oh. my. tell me. Who is your #1 QB? Let me use stats to rip them to shreds, just once. Did you even see the 5/17 game? he threw at least 6 into the ground or out of bounds and had 2 drops. wow. 5/9. that's 55% against one of the best defenses in the nation

1 - Luck
2 - Gabbert
3 - Newton
4 - Mallet
5 - Locker

Sniper
01-03-2011, 02:54 PM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0908/grab-a-beer-some-popcorn-demotivational-poster-1251488347.gif

I refuse to comment on this matter.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-03-2011, 02:57 PM
Oh, and for overall prospects, I'd have Locker near #75. Probably lower now that a lot of the good underclassmen are coming out.

jballa838
01-03-2011, 02:58 PM
1 - Luck
2 - Gabbert
3 - Newton
4 - Mallet
5 - Locker
Andrew Luck. Started less than 30 games, which historically does not help him out in not being a bust. Played with two of the best running games in the nation behind statistically the best offensive line in college football. Never played from behind, had to lead a team to a close win, nor does he have a large sample size of being successful. This season could very well be an aberration, and he could regress to his 55.6% completition percentage he had his freshman year, when he had Toby Gerhart loading the box, making it easier to throw for him.

jballa838
01-03-2011, 02:59 PM
I refuse to comment on this matter.
I appreciate it. I also respect your opinions and contentions, I just don't agree with 100% of them.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-03-2011, 03:01 PM
Andrew Luck. Started less than 30 games, which historically does not help him out in not being a bust. Played with two of the best running games in the nation behind statistically the best offensive line in college football. Never played from behind, had to lead a team to a close win, nor does he have a large sample size of being successful. This season could very well be an aberration, and he could regress to his 55.6% completition percentage he had his freshman year, when he had Toby Gerhart loading the box, making it easier to throw for him.

Luck is the best QB prospect since Manning.

He's not a one year starter. Has enough experience playing under a former NFL QB and 1st rounder in Harbaugh. Played in a pro style offense.

Athleticism, accuracy, intelligence, arm strength. He has it it all.

You are really bringing up his freshman QB %? Guess what? It was better than Locker's SENIOR season completion %.

bucfan12
01-03-2011, 03:05 PM
Andrew Luck. Started less than 30 games, which historically does not help him out in not being a bust. Played with two of the best running games in the nation behind statistically the best offensive line in college football. Never played from behind, had to lead a team to a close win, nor does he have a large sample size of being successful. This season could very well be an aberration, and he could regress to his 55.6% completition percentage he had his freshman year, when he had Toby Gerhart loading the box, making it easier to throw for him.

Now your just nitpicking. He was a Freshman last year. Freshman. Watch the tape. He has all the skills and is putting it together. It's almost like he isn't even challenged anymore at the college level. Locker never impressed me. Yeah he had that nice drive against USC in 2009, but that seems to be the only highlight in his career.

Another thing, the Huskies didn't even need Locker to beat Nebraska last week. Luck is that offense in Stanford. Luck is the top prospect in the draft and there is not anyone that can challenge him for it. He is light years away from all the other QB prospects in this draft.

Babylon
01-03-2011, 03:05 PM
He's got 5x as much bad film as well.

His college career ending with a 5/17 59 yard showing.

Washington finished 99th in passing accuracy and were even more horrendous 3rd down % wise all year. Going against bad defensive teams most of the season as well.

Locker cannot hide from this.

They did play the 2nd toughest schedule in the county (not inlcuding the bowl game) so the competition couldn't have been as bad as you imply.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-03-2011, 03:06 PM
They did play the 2nd toughest schedule in the county (not inlcuding the bowl game) so the competition couldn't have been as bad as you imply.

104th ranked defensive SOS

And when you consider they played Nebraska twice -- think about it!

jballa838
01-03-2011, 03:09 PM
Luck is the best QB prospect since Manning.

I'd take Mike Vick over him in a heartbeat.

He's not a one year starter. Has enough experience playing under a former NFL QB and 1st rounder in Harbaugh. Played in a pro style offense.
You're right. He's a two year starter, who has the best supporting cast in college football over those two years, in a system that requires him to make uncontested throws off play-action passes against 8 in the box.

Athleticism, accuracy, intelligence, arm strength. He has it it all.

Sounds like Akili Smith, and you forgot experience. Oh, wait...

You are really bringing up his freshman QB %? Guess what? It was better than Locker's SENIOR season completion %.
Locker's junior completion percentage was higher. without Toby Gerhart behind him.

see how freaking easy this is?

JPP90
01-03-2011, 03:09 PM
He's got 5x as much bad film as well.

His college career ending with a 5/17 59 yard showing.

Washington finished 99th in passing accuracy and were even more horrendous 3rd down % wise all year. Going against bad defensive teams most of the season as well.

Locker cannot hide from this.

Another stat geek that doesn't watch games.

Sniper
01-03-2011, 03:12 PM
Andrew Luck.

From a purely Luck viewpoint and not comparing to any other QBs, some of these aren't really accurate.

Started less than 30 games, which historically does not help him out in not being a bust.

Okay.

Played with two of the best running games in the nation behind statistically the best offensive line in college football.

Valid.

Never played from behind, had to lead a team to a close win, nor does he have a large sample size of being successful.

He led Stanford to a comeback win against USC this year (admittedly a terrible defense) and Arizona State on the road. He led the Cardinal to wins in close games against UCLA and Oregon and had a comeback win against Notre Dame last year. He's 18-6 as a starter with a game left. 75 percent wins? That's pretty studly. If he does that in the pros, his team is 12-4 every year.

This season could very well be an aberration, and he could regress to his 55.6% completition percentage he had his freshman year when he had Toby Gerhart loading the box, making it easier to throw for him.

This makes no sense. He lost Gerhart and improved by 13.9 percent, an astronomical rise, despite throwing the ball five times more per game on average.

jballa838
01-03-2011, 03:12 PM
104th ranked defensive SOS

And when you consider they played Nebraska twice -- think about it!
their non conference games were: BYU, Syracuse, and Nebraska twice. And they didn't have the luxury of playing their own defense, unlike Stanford.

Stanford played: Sacramento State (FCS!!!!), Wake Forest, and Notre Dame. What does that mean for Luck's SOS????

seriously. I want to stop, but this is really too easy to find a flaw and exploit it.

Sniper
01-03-2011, 03:13 PM
He's a two year starter, who has the best supporting cast in college football over those two years

Now you're just getting ridiculous.

in a system that requires him to make uncontested throws off play-action passes against 8 in the box.

Again.

Black Bolt
01-03-2011, 03:14 PM
oh. my. tell me. Who is your #1 QB? Let me use stats to rip them to shreds, just once. Did you even see the 5/17 game? he threw at least 6 into the ground or out of bounds and had 2 drops. wow. 5/9. that's 55% against one of the best defenses in the nation

LMAO, it just doesn't work like that, son. You can't edit out what you don't like. Furthermore, it's not like it was one bad game, he has mounds of bad games to chose from. Locker is the emporer with not clothes.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-03-2011, 03:15 PM
You're right. He's a two year starter, who has the best supporting cast in college football over those two years, in a system that requires him to make uncontested throws off play-action passes against 8 in the box.

There is absolutely no way you believe this.

Locker's junior completion percentage was higher. without Toby Gerhart behind him.

see how freaking easy this is?

Oh, Locker's Jr. year completion % was higher than a first year starting QB? Do you not see the self ownage in saying this?

You are right.. This is easy. Almost too easy.

You can't hide your ridiculous bias. Locker is far too inaccurate as a QB at this stage. I love the intangibles and toughness as the next guy, but please. Remember when they talked about moving Locker to safety?

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-03-2011, 03:16 PM
their non conference games were: BYU, Syracuse, and Nebraska twice. And they didn't have the luxury of playing their own defense, unlike Stanford.

Stanford played: Sacramento State (FCS!!!!), Wake Forest, and Notre Dame. What does that mean for Luck's SOS????

seriously. I want to stop, but this is really too easy to find a flaw and exploit it.

The difference is Luck absolutely torched those teams at a 70% completion rate.

While, Locker looked like an absolute bum for pretty much the entire year.

You are seriously confused.

Sniper
01-03-2011, 03:16 PM
RF9PFJI_t5I

If all else fails, Luck can play linebacker. :D

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-03-2011, 03:17 PM
RF9PFJI_t5I

If all else fails, Luck can play linebacker. :D

EDIT

I thought this was the Locker video.

Sniper
01-03-2011, 03:18 PM
They almost moved him to safety.

So, it's not all that crazy.

Haha.

I thought Locker was the one who almost moved to safety so he could contribute while banged up. I never heard anything about Luck.

keylime_5
01-03-2011, 03:18 PM
c'mon, jballa is obviously very passionate about Locker and the Huskies, let him go on this.

what I don't get is all the non-washington homers who actually think locker has a shot at the first round after the abortion of a senior year he had passing the ball. why was he so bad after looking so promising as a junior?

JPP90
01-03-2011, 03:18 PM
The difference is Luck absolutely torched those teams at a 70% completion rate.

While, Locker looked like an absolute bum for pretty much the entire year.

You are seriously confused.

You don't watch many games, do you?

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-03-2011, 03:19 PM
I thought Locker was the one who almost moved to safety so he could contribute while banged up. I never heard anything about Luck.

LOL

My bad.

I thought it was the Locker video, didn't even look at it.

Luck is the ******* man though. Look at him hit.

And I laugh at the people who think the USC player should be embarrassed. He took a shot from a great athlete and the future #1 overall pick. That's a story down the line for the grandchildren.

jballa838
01-03-2011, 03:20 PM
From a purely Luck viewpoint and not comparing to any other QBs, some of these aren't really accurate.



Okay.



Valid.



He led Stanford to a comeback win against USC this year (admittedly a terrible defense) and Arizona State on the road. He led the Cardinal to wins in close games against UCLA and Oregon and had a comeback win against Notre Dame last year. He's 18-6 as a starter with a game left. 75 percent wins? That's pretty studly. If he does that in the pros, his team is 12-4 every year.


Arizona State didn't make a bowl game, UCLA didn't make a bowl game, the Oregon game was closer than the numbers suggest, but still a 21 point game. Notre Dame is overrated.

This makes no sense. He lost Gerhart and improved by 13.9 percent, an astronomical rise, despite throwing the ball five times more per game on average.
The loss of Gerhart did not adversely affect his run game, sans a few yards per game. Stanford wouldn't have needed to improve had he not have absolutely sucked his frosh year @Oregon State, Arizona and Cal. He lost those games by not being an efficient QB when they needed one

jballa838
01-03-2011, 03:23 PM
c'mon, jballa is obviously very passionate about Locker and the Huskies, let him go on this.

what I don't get is all the non-washington homers who actually think locker has a shot at the first round after the abortion of a senior year he had passing the ball. why was he so bad after looking so promising as a junior?
thanks dude. I am merely doing this to a prove a point. The same one Scott brought up 3 pages back and everybody ignored it. I do think Andrew Luck is the #1 QB in this year's class, but to say he is without flaws and no reservation should be made about his system he comes from is asinine.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-03-2011, 03:24 PM
If anyone wants a good laugh -

Go look up Washington's yards per attempt.

And think very hard about how awful Locker was this season.

How are Locker's hips? Can he play S in the cover-2? Maybe Locker has some Sabby Piscitelli in him? They come from the same conference!

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
01-03-2011, 03:25 PM
Gabbert is nowhere near that good. Not even close. Lots of potential, but I just don't even see him as a first round prospect at this point. He made the single worst throw I've seen in college football in a big situation with that fourth quarter interception to Micah Hyde. You could see he was going to put the ball there right from the snap. He's got good mobility, but he takes off after making two reads and his footwork on the move really isn't that good. Footwork in general is a real weakness for him, actually. Most of the time that's an easy thing to fix, but he has pretty significant issues with lower body mechanics.

Agree that throw might be the biggest WTF all of bowl season. I just sat there as it happened thinking surely he isn't stupid enough to make that throw then BAM, easy pick game over.

Sniper
01-03-2011, 03:25 PM
The loss of Gerhart did not adversely affect his run game, sans a few yards per game.

Well, yeah, it did. Stanford averaged 5.28 per carry his freshman year on 41 carries per game during Luck's freshman year. They dropped to 5.02 his sophomore year on 42 carries per game during his sophomore year.

Stanford wouldn't have needed to improve had he not have absolutely sucked his frosh year @Oregon State, Arizona and Cal. He lost those games by not being an efficient QB when they needed one

He was a freshman. Against Oregon State, he averaged 7.5 ypa and threw two touchdowns and no picks. He struggled throwing the ball for sure, but he didn't turn it over and didn't live off the checkdown.

Against Arizona, he completed 60 percent of his passes at 12.1 ypa and 423 yards. He added three touchdowns and one pick. You're not REALLY going to say he absolutely sucked against Arizona, are you?

The Cal game was awful.

jballa838
01-03-2011, 03:28 PM
There is absolutely no way you believe this.

Never said I did. Just saying the argument could be made.

Oh, Locker's Jr. year completion % was higher than a first year starting QB? Do you not see the self ownage in saying this?

You are right.. This is easy. Almost too easy.

Yeah, his first year under Steve Sarkisian, in a new offense, behind the worst O-Line in the pac-9 (WSU is an FCS school basically). He also ran for 948 yards and 12 touchdowns as a freshman, and was freshman of the year. To go from being a running QB to a dual threat in 2 years is phenomenal. And I wasn't the one bringing him up, you were.

You can't hide your ridiculous bias. Locker is far too inaccurate as a QB at this stage. I love the intangibles and toughness as the next guy, but please. Remember when they talked about moving Locker to safety?
Yeah, when he couldn't throw the football because he broke his thumb being a team player and blocking on a reverse. I remember that. It was his idea, since the team hadn't won a game and was giving up 50 a game.

seriously, I'm done. this goes nowhere.

Babylon
01-03-2011, 03:29 PM
104th ranked defensive SOS

And when you consider they played Nebraska twice -- think about it!

If you count the 11 regular season games(jake didnt play against Oregon) i get an avg off 52nd against the pass. 48th if you count the bowl game. Just talking pass defense.

Nebraska-5th
Syracuse-8th
BYU-24th
Cal-21st
Stanford-34th
Arizona-45th
UCLA-54th
Oregon st-78th
ASU-t100
WSU-t100
USC-109th

Cigaro
01-03-2011, 03:30 PM
Arizona State didn't make a bowl game, UCLA didn't make a bowl game, the Oregon game was closer than the numbers suggest, but still a 21 point game. Notre Dame is overrated.

The loss of Gerhart did not adversely affect his run game, sans a few yards per game. Stanford wouldn't have needed to improve had he not have absolutely sucked his frosh year @Oregon State, Arizona and Cal. He lost those games by not being an efficient QB when they needed one

Are you criticizing Luck for his freshman season?

jballa838
01-03-2011, 03:32 PM
Sounds like a senior QB from the Pacific Northwest I know!
Tuel? Locker won all his close games, besides BYU.

ElectricEye
01-03-2011, 03:33 PM
what I don't get is all the non-washington homers who actually think locker has a shot at the first round after the abortion of a senior year he had passing the ball. why was he so bad after looking so promising as a junior?

I don't think he was significantly worse, but some bad habits did form over the course of the season. Like it or not, his receivers and his offensive line did let him down on multiple occasions throughout the course of the year. Losing Kavario Middleton hurt him quite a bit as he was a dependable target to throw to when things broke down and a very good blocker. Poor human being though, in the tradition of Jeremy Stevens.

As far as bad habits go... compensating for the poor offensive line play caused him to take off and give up on plays well before he should. His mechanics broke down a bit in terms of footwork and threw some poor balls because of it. He tried to speed up his release too much and was off on some throws.

I think the second round of stuff is a much bigger deal than the lack of production, which is overblown to a certain extent. Football is a team sport and that effects the quarterback position more than any other in terms of numbers and overall level of play. But, one of the quickest ways to ruin a quarterback is to put him in a bad situation for a prolonged period of time. I think his issues are largely coachable and really doesn't have the major red flags people are saying he does. He's a project and was always going to be no matter what, so this year really doesn't concern me as much as it does others. Now, would I like to see him at the Senior Bowl? You bet I would. It could make or break him as a prospect quite possibly more than any other guy we've seen in the past few years. If he goes out there and throws up ducks and plays poorly, I'll freely admit he probably isn't a first round prospect anymore. But if he goes out there and preforms up to expectations, I can very easily see him being a top 15 guy.

Cigaro
01-03-2011, 03:35 PM
Tuel? Locker won all his close games, besides BYU.

I wasn't referring to just close games...I was referring to inefficiency in general.

Babylon
01-03-2011, 03:37 PM
c'mon, jballa is obviously very passionate about Locker and the Huskies, let him go on this.

what I don't get is all the non-washington homers who actually think locker has a shot at the first round after the abortion of a senior year he had passing the ball. why was he so bad after looking so promising as a junior?

Homerism aside the two years arent as differant as you imply (which may not be a good thing either)

2009
58.2%, 12.17 yds per comp, 21-11 tds to int.

2010
55.4%, 12.3 yds per comp, 17-9 tds to int.

keylime_5
01-03-2011, 03:39 PM
I acknoweldge that with a good offensive line and a better supporting cast like he will receive in the NFL he has the potential to be a very good player, however with what we've seen of him this year I can't see anyway a team would take that huge of a risk by taking him in the first round. I could see using him as a project in round 2 or 3 but I'll be completely baffled if he goes higher than that.

keylime_5
01-03-2011, 03:41 PM
Homerism aside the two years arent as differant as you imply (which may not be a good thing either)

2009
58.2%, 12.17 yds per comp, 21-11 tds to int.

2010
55.4%, 12.3 yds per comp, 17-9 tds to int.

this may be so, but it probably seems so totally different because Locker wasn't expected of much going into 2009 which he had the expectations of a top 5 pick going into 2010 and failed miserably to meet them. Guys are supposed to get better and better with each year, not noticably worse. Numbers aside his tape looks bad.

Babylon
01-03-2011, 03:47 PM
this may be so, but it probably seems so totally different because Locker wasn't expected of much going into 2009 which he had the expectations of a top 5 pick going into 2010 and failed miserably to meet them. Guys are supposed to get better and better with each year, not noticably worse. Numbers aside his tape looks bad.

I cant argue with that just trying to state some facts, one guy's facts are another guy's excuses i guess. As EE pointed out losing Kavario Middleton hurt, he only caught 26 passes last year but was a big target in the middle. New offensive line allignments for the first 9 games certainly didnt help and most of us dont know how it feels to play with a broken rib for the last 7 games of the season. Heck some guys would get an injury and shut it down for the year.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-03-2011, 03:51 PM
I plan on making a large post about Andrew Luck's flaws sometime in the next week. I say this as someone who essentially helped start his bandwagon, and have been as vocal as anyone in support of him skyrocketing up draft boards this year outside of BeerBaron. I think it will spark good discourse and seeing as my team has the first chance at picking him if he declares, is well worth my time. Judging from the discussion in this thread, I won't be bringing a ton of new things to the table but I plan on going way more in depth and refraining from making everything about Jake Locker

I agree, but my point in his calling out Gholston was that he was the ONLY draft analyst willing to go there. I was yelling on this board about how overrated he was as a player on the field when everyone else including Mayock, Kiper, etc. would not even acknowledge his lack of production. That counts more than being wrong on a guy that most other people were wrong on. See what I mean?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that no one else in the media was questioning Gholston as a prospect but you have to remember that it's a lot tougher to stick your neck out there when you're a media personality and on TV a lot than it is when you're on a message board. Remember how much flak Mayock got for his man crush on Matt Ryan?

And FWIW, I remember the writeup from that Giants message board that gets linked here every year where one guy gets a bunch of anonymous scouts from real teams to talk about most of the top prospects at each position REALLY tearing into Gholston

ElectricEye
01-03-2011, 03:53 PM
Numbers aside his tape looks bad.

But not as bad as the numbers, in my opinion.

He did regress quite a bit this year, but he also did what he had to do to win games. He could have gone out there and dropped back and died for his draft stock, but he ran around and threw checkdowns...which is better for the team than sitting back there taking sacks. A lot of the rollouts we designed as well, in order to give him more time to throw and put him in one on one situations against pass rushers. Certain habits were formed as the result of that and will take some coaching to get rid of. It's not knock for sure, not trying to change anyones opinion on that, but that's why it happened and why I feel more comfortable projecting that to change with coaching.

FUNBUNCHER
01-03-2011, 04:01 PM
Think what you will, but there are more and more grumblings in D.C. that Shanahan is 'in love' with two QBs; Luck and Locker.

They fit the mold of the mobile, WCO QB he covets. If Locker simply looks decent in the Senior Bowl, Shanny and Junior are gonna turn Jake into their personal Frankenstein experiment.

SHanny knows how awful Steve Young looked when he was traded from TB to the SF 49ers, until he was 'coached up'.

I think Shanny will see the same thing Bill Walsh saw in Steve Young; a raw, physically gifted prospect who only needs to be developed for a year or two.

Kyle runs a very QB friendly offense, and by the time Locker is ready to take the reins, the Skins should have the supporting cast around Locker to allow him to excel.

Babylon
01-03-2011, 04:37 PM
Think what you will, but there are more and more grumblings in D.C. that Shanahan is 'in love' with two QBs; Luck and Locker.

They fit the mold of the mobile, WCO QB he covets. If Locker simply looks decent in the Senior Bowl, Shanny and Junior are gonna turn Jake into their personal Frankenstein experiment.

SHanny knows how awful Steve Young looked when he was traded from TB to the SF 49ers, until he was 'coached up'.

I think Shanny will see the same thing Bill Walsh saw in Steve Young; a raw, physically gifted prospect who only needs to be developed for a year or two.

Kyle runs a very QB friendly offense, and by the time Locker is ready to take the reins, the Skins should have the supporting cast around Locker to allow him to excel.

When you say Washington i hope you mean the state of.

Sniper
01-03-2011, 04:38 PM
When you say Washington i hope you mean the state of.

Where does he say Washington? He specifically means D.C. and the Shanahans.

brasho
01-03-2011, 05:20 PM
Locker's situation is exactly the same as Clausen's last year. Everybody was saying wonders about him and how he should be a Top 10 pick. On Draft Day, he'll fall to the 2nd round and in the NFL, we'll see what he's really made of.

So you're saying that he goes down to the Senior Bowl where coaches and media get to see him up close and personal for a week, they watch him throw, they see him run, they fall in love and decide that his struggles in college were more a result of a lack of talent around him and not "him"?

Personally, I still think the player that Locker reminds me most of whith his size, athletic ability, arm, and offense in college that had him making mostly half field reads, is Akili Smith...

that being said, I think some coach and/or GM falls in love with him and he goes in round 1 (Shanahan would be an obvious landing spot, especially when you consider the QBs he's had the most success with and where their physical skill set resembles Locker's-Elway, Cutler).

Babylon
01-03-2011, 05:26 PM
Where does he say Washington? He specifically means D.C. and the Shanahans.

I'm aware, just trying some humor to get rid of my hangover.

yourfavestoner
01-03-2011, 05:31 PM
So you're saying that he goes down to the Senior Bowl where coaches and media get to see him up close and personal for a week, they watch him throw, they see him run, they fall in love and decide that his struggles in college were more a result of a lack of talent around him and not "him"?

Personally, I still think the player that Locker reminds me most of whith his size, athletic ability, arm, and offense in college that had him making mostly half field reads, is Akili Smith...

that being said, I think some coach and/or GM falls in love with him and he goes in round 1 (Shanahan would be an obvious landing spot, especially when you consider the QBs he's had the most success with and where their physical skill set resembles Locker's-Elway, Cutler).

Akili Smith would be insulted at being compared to Jake Locker, because Akili Smith was actually considered good at one point. Locker is a homeless man's Jay Cutler with better top-end speed.

Also, wasn't McShay the guy who was adamant until draft day that Andre Woodson was a surefire first rounder?

brasho
01-03-2011, 05:37 PM
Besides all the hype regarding 5 QBs that I think could potentially find their way into round 1, there are more needs at QB this year compared to last.

Carolina at least had Matt Moore to bridge the gap between Delhomme and the next guy... which turned out to be Clausen... which might be a problem.

Buffalo may or may not think Fitzpatrick is the guy.

Cincinatti has to be looking for Palmer's future or immediate replacement.

Arizona now know what life without Kurt Warner is like... and they don't like it.

San Francisco will officially end the Alex Smith project and will probably start anew.

Washington has the most complicated/screwed-up QB situation in the league.

Minnesota... Favre? Jackson? Webb....

Miami might think it's time to quit filliing QB needs in round 2.

Jacksonville was rumored to be wanting a QB last draft.

Seattle Hasselbeck, Whitehurst LOL



So by my count, that's 10 teams desperately needing a QB.. and with the success of Freeman, Sanchez, Ryan, Flacco, Bradford, and numerous others as well as the potential public relations/ticket sales boost that comes with it, I think the need for QB is more than in most seasons.

brasho
01-03-2011, 05:39 PM
Akili Smith would be insulted at being compared to Jake Locker, because Akili Smith was actually considered good at one point. Locker is a homeless man's Jay Cutler with better top-end speed.

Also, wasn't McShay the guy who was adamant until draft day that Andre Woodson was a surefire first rounder?

He may have said that, I thought Woodson looked like a 3rd rounder at best.. I was much closer than McShay... on the other hand, if not for Leftwich, Woodson may have been a 1st rounder.. but those pesky slow releases have a habit of rearing their ugly heads against decent defenses.

As for Akili Smith, if Locker had left after his junior season, and only one season of decent production, like Smith, he would have been drafted very high.. this site among others believed that as well.

yourfavestoner
01-03-2011, 05:47 PM
He may have said that, I thought Woodson looked like a 3rd rounder at best.. I was much closer than McShay... on the other hand, if not for Leftwich, Woodson may have been a 1st rounder.. but those pesky slow releases have a habit of rearing their ugly heads against decent defenses.

As for Akili Smith, if Locker had left after his junior season, and only one season of decent production, like Smith, he would have been drafted very high.. this site among others believed that as well.

Akili Smith, though, had some actual production in his one season starting. Cam Newton is a much closer parallel, in my opinion.

Last year, Locker had okay (but not great) numbers and his claim to fame was beating the worst USC team in a decade with Aaron Corp at quarterback and playing in a "pro style" (lol) offense under Sarkisian that would get him ready for the pros.

Sniper
01-03-2011, 05:49 PM
Akili Smith, though, had some actual production in his one season starting. Cam Newton is a much closer parallel, in my opinion.

Last year, Locker had okay (but not great) numbers and his claim to fame was beating the worst USC team in a decade with Aaron Corp at quarterback and playing in a "pro style" (lol) offense under Sarkisian that would get him ready for the pros.

Have you been peeking at my notes?

Babylon
01-03-2011, 05:57 PM
Akili Smith, though, had some actual production in his one season starting. Cam Newton is a much closer parallel, in my opinion.

Last year, Locker had okay (but not great) numbers and his claim to fame was beating the worst USC team in a decade with Aaron Corp at quarterback and playing in a "pro style" (lol) offense under Sarkisian that would get him ready for the pros.

If you want to draft off stats then please take Kellen Moore or Andy Dalton. Locker's appeal is that he has great character, 4.45 speed and a cannon for an arm.

yourfavestoner
01-03-2011, 05:59 PM
Have you been peeking at my notes?

No sir, I haven't. ;)

Locker/Newton/Mallet are all essentially the same guy to me. They're all amazing physical talents and all have the skillsets to not only be good - but to be great - in the pros. They all also have some pretty gaping holes in their game. How one ranks them is really a matter of personal preference.

I think they could all perennial All-Pros to complete disasters - and everything in between. How they end up is going to be heavily dependent on what team and coach they go to. I'm not that high on any of them and I'm not that low on any of them.

Of course, if you like one, you automatically have to hate the others. Par for the course on here.

RaiderNation
01-03-2011, 06:02 PM
McShay has his head up his ass like usual. Gabbert is a late 1st/early 2nd QB right now and probably the 5th ranked QB on my board.

Luck
Newton
Mallett
Locker
Gabbert

TitanHope
01-03-2011, 06:02 PM
They do this every year. Slot a guy who nobody agrees with to get hype and conversation about their mocks.

It worked again.

fenikz
01-03-2011, 06:03 PM
RF9PFJI_t5I

If all else fails, Luck can play linebacker. :D

helmet to helmet fine that QB!

RealityCheck
01-03-2011, 06:20 PM
You all say "5 QBs in the 1st round blah, blah, blah"... why not 6 QBs in the first round, since there are 10 teams needing one?

I mean, Colin Kaepernick is still there.

San Diego Chicken
01-03-2011, 06:23 PM
One thing I'm noticing this year when people talk about QB's is the obsession with college statistics. Meaningless, meaningless, meaningless. The NFL is looking for translatable skills into the pros and college statistics cannot and do not give you any sort of representation of that. Box score scouting won't win any analyst of the year awards. Just look back at Jimmy Clausen's 2009 numbers at ND and see what relevance they have to today.

Sniper
01-03-2011, 06:27 PM
One thing I'm noticing this year when people talk about QB's is the obsession with college statistics. Meaningless, meaningless, meaningless. The NFL is looking for translatable skills into the pros and college statistics cannot and do not give you any sort of representation of that. Box score scouting won't win any analyst of the year awards. Just look back at Jimmy Clausen's 2009 numbers at ND and see what relevance they have to today.

If you can't complete passes in college, your odds of completing them in the pros aren't good.

RealityCheck
01-03-2011, 06:30 PM
9/36 in the most important game of his career, led his team to a 0-12 season, 1st round NFL draft pick.

Find the sentence that doesn't fit with the rest.

keylime_5
01-03-2011, 06:34 PM
McShay has his head up his ass like usual. Gabbert is a late 1st/early 2nd QB right now and probably the 5th ranked QB on my board.

Luck
Newton
Mallett
Locker
Gabbert

meh, I think he's more likely to be the 2nd or 3rd taken than he is the 5th. I will be completely shocked if Locker goes before Luck, Newton, Mallett, or Gabbert.

RaiderNation
01-03-2011, 06:36 PM
meh, I think he's more likely to be the 2nd or 3rd taken than he is the 5th. I will be completely shocked if Locker goes before Luck, Newton, Mallett, or Gabbert.

When did I say Locker will go before all of them? I ranked him 4th over Gabbert.....

San Diego Chicken
01-03-2011, 06:39 PM
If you can't complete passes in college, your odds of completing them in the pros aren't good.

Well duh. Accuracy/Consistency is one of those translatable skills to the NFL. College stats aren't going to give you a representation of REAL accuracy. Gotta watch the games and have an understanding of what types of routes the QB is throwing

ElectricEye
01-03-2011, 06:43 PM
9/36 in the most important game of his career
When was that? I'm curious to what you think is the "most important game of his career"

led his team to a 0-12 season

Uhh....no. He was hurt that year and actually didn't play, sans the first three games. Love how you chose to ignore that and the fact that a Washington team with the only real difference being him and Chris Polk(who wasn't anywhere near as good as he was this year) won 5 games the next year.

Babylon
01-03-2011, 06:47 PM
9/36 in the most important game of his career, led his team to a 0-12 season, 1st round NFL draft pick.

Find the sentence that doesn't fit with the rest.

Played in 3 1/2 games in that year, i know you want to be accurate RC.

RealityCheck
01-03-2011, 06:48 PM
Yeah, did miss the fact he got hurt.

Still, the bowl game vs. Nebraska was the most important game of his career hands down. His last chance to impress the scouts, and he failed.

cajuncorey
01-03-2011, 06:59 PM
Blaine Gabbert beats out luck for the 1st player selected in the draft.

Shane P. Hallam
01-03-2011, 07:03 PM
His last chance to impress the scouts, and he failed.


Yup, won't get that chance in the Senior Bowl?

Arsenal
01-03-2011, 07:08 PM
No sir, I haven't. ;)

Locker/Newton/Mallet are all essentially the same guy to me. They're all amazing physical talents and all have the skillsets to not only be good - but to be great - in the pros. They all also have some pretty gaping holes in their game. How one ranks them is really a matter of personal preference.

I think they could all perennial All-Pros to complete disasters - and everything in between. How they end up is going to be heavily dependent on what team and coach they go to. I'm not that high on any of them and I'm not that low on any of them.

Of course, if you like one, you automatically have to hate the others. Par for the course on here.

Couldn't agree more.

I'm glad San Francisco is going to be gunning for a quarterback this year because of all the available options, it's certainly better then last year.

That being said Newton, Mallett, Gabbert, and Locker all scare the hell out of me. All are boom and bust type of players. I wouldn't argue with any of them (unless Jake Locker plays poorly at the Senior Bowl then I want no part of him). I like parts of all their game, but will be really worried about their development no matter who the team picks.

Shiver
01-03-2011, 07:20 PM
Wow I come back to the Draft sub-forum and people still think Jake Locker is a good prospect?!

RealityCheck
01-03-2011, 08:05 PM
Yup, won't get that chance in the Senior Bowl?
He will... but that was his last chance on an actual playing field.

Caulibflower
01-03-2011, 08:11 PM
A lot of people reference Akili Smith and Co. like there was no way they could've had success in the NFL. They very well may have on different teams. Comparing prospects to busts doesn't work and better than comparing them to All-Pros.

ElectricEye
01-03-2011, 08:15 PM
He will... but that was his last chance on an actual playing field.

The Senior Bowl practices will be more important for Locker than any game he's played this year.

JPP90
01-03-2011, 08:18 PM
Lmao....still talking about Jake Locker.

jCut
01-03-2011, 08:29 PM
Denver pick is spot-on.

roscoesdad27
01-03-2011, 09:34 PM
Tyrod Taylor > gabbert or locker

Mcshay has totally whiffed on him too having him listed as a w.r. ....GUARANTEE he quietly changes that!

Ianlovesfozzy
01-03-2011, 09:38 PM
Disagree. Locker, Newton, Taylor, and Mallett all have huge flaws in their game, while Gabbert's only significant flaw is that he is not polished. He has the poise, but he struggles with confidence and consistency.

jrdrylie
01-03-2011, 09:47 PM
Tyrod Taylor > gabbert or locker

Mcshay has totally whiffed on him too having him listed as a w.r. ....GUARANTEE he quietly changes that!

Umm, please tell me this is sarcasm. I think Tyrod does get a look at QB but he isn't even one of the top 10 QBs let alone better than Gabbert or Locker.

descendency
01-03-2011, 09:49 PM
The top 5 rating is coming from a rumor that one of McShay's NFL friends is telling him a top 5 team wants Gabbert badly.

Ianlovesfozzy
01-03-2011, 09:59 PM
The top 5 rating is coming from a rumor that one of McShay's NFL friends is telling him a top 5 team wants Gabbert badly.

And, I'll remind some of you, just because McShay mocks them in the top five, doesn't mean he's a "top 5" guy, just that he thinks some team is stupid enuogh to draft them that early.

bucfan12
01-03-2011, 10:17 PM
McShay also had Jevan Snead as a 1st round prospect at this time last year and he wasn't even drafted. Just saying.

MetSox17
01-03-2011, 10:21 PM
It's pathetic how hard some people defend Jake Locker. There's nothing more than can possibly be added that hasn't already been said, but he is so bad. And it's hilarious that some people will defend him to the death.

JPP90
01-03-2011, 10:21 PM
Umm, please tell me this is sarcasm. I think Tyrod does get a look at QB but he isn't even one of the top 10 QBs let alone better than Gabbert or Locker.

No its not sarcasm...go check the game thread and the Tyrod thread...he's on a fricken roll in both. The scary part is that apparently he's old enough to reproduce, yet he's that dumb.

bucfan12
01-03-2011, 10:38 PM
Hey jballa838,

Are you still doubting Andrew Luck? Still think Jake Locker will be better? HAH! Hope you're watching this Orange Bowl and eating your words pal.

JPP90
01-03-2011, 10:45 PM
Hey jballa838,

Are you still doubting Andrew Luck? Still think Jake Locker will be better? HAH! Hope you're watching this Orange Bowl and eating your words pal.

He shouldn't be eating anything..some of you just overreact watching college games. Not to say Luck isn't a great QB prospect but its all in where you land at the NFL. You think MATT stafford would benefit more now being on the Jets or Bucs? You think Alex Smith might switch teams with Aaron Rodgers now? Going #1 doesn't guarantee you success.

bucfan12
01-03-2011, 10:49 PM
He shouldn't be eating anything..some of you just overreact watching college games. Not to say Luck isn't a great QB prospect but its all in where you land at the NFL. You think MATT stafford would benefit more now being on the Jets or Bucs? You think Alex Smith might switch teams with Aaron Rodgers now? Going #1 doesn't guarantee you success.

You think Josh Freeman lucked out by landing on the Bucs? Man, he makes that team a 10 win team. Without him, they are lucky to win maybe 2 or 3 games. Stafford is another guy. If he played this year, he could have really made some noise. The Lions have a ton of talent. When Stafford is healthy, they could push 8-10 wins next year. Sanchez is the only one who lucked out by going to a playoff contending team. He is also the reason the Jets won't win a super bowl.

Borat
01-03-2011, 11:07 PM
Which do you guys like better:

Jake Smith
or
Alex Locker?

MetSox17
01-03-2011, 11:07 PM
I'll take a horse's turd over Jake Locker.

JPP90
01-03-2011, 11:12 PM
I'll take a horse's turd over Jake Locker.

That doesn't surprise me.

jballa838
01-03-2011, 11:20 PM
Hey jballa838,

Are you still doubting Andrew Luck? Still think Jake Locker will be better? HAH! Hope you're watching this Orange Bowl and eating your words pal.
ha. wait 10 minutes. then check this subforum again.

wordofi
01-03-2011, 11:22 PM
The only negative I can see with Andrew Luck is that he tends to bring the ball down too low when throwing on the run. It kind of reminds me of Tim Tebow and his throwing motion to a certain extent. Also, why does he need the knee brace?

JPP90
01-03-2011, 11:24 PM
The only negative I can see with Andrew Luck is that he tends to bring the ball down too low when throwing on the run. It kind of reminds me of Tim Tebow and his throwing motion to a certain extent. Also, why does he need the knee brace?

To stabilize the knee and prevent injuries.

wordofi
01-03-2011, 11:29 PM
To stabilize the knee and prevent injuries.

What did he do to his knee?

JPP90
01-03-2011, 11:35 PM
What did he do to his knee?

To my knowledge nothing but some guys wear them to prevent injuries if someone rolls into them or goes low on them.

MI_Buckeye
01-03-2011, 11:48 PM
People like to bag on McShay for a variety of reasons, but I feel he is one of the more honest scouts there is in the media. He is not afraid to go with his gut and make some pretty strong prognostications, such as Jimmy Clausen falling out of the first round. I seem to respect what he says a lot more than most of you.

I have seen Gabbert play quite a few times, and have been impressed but not overwhelmed with how he has performed. To me, it seems the Missouri offense might be masking some of his greater talents like his mobility and deep passing.

That being said, it seems he is joining one of the most in-flux quarterback classes we have ever seen. We all know Luck is the real deal, but after him, there are four guys with unreal tools and epic question marks. Gabbert may be doing himself a favor by entering at a time with a lot of focus on the other prospects.

I think we can all say for certain, this will be one of the most interesting quarterback drafts we have ever seen.

JFINK11
01-04-2011, 12:25 PM
Am I the only person who thinks this an extremely strong QB class? I mean really compared to a lot of the most recent years especially. Pro Comparisons:

Andrew Luck - Eli Manning
Blaine Gabbert - Kevin Kolb
Cam Newton - Vince Young
Jake Locker - Jay Cutler (definately the worst of the comparisons)
Ryan Mallet - Phillip Rivers (without the polish)

I expect ridicule and comments though from these comparisons....and to hear some other people's nfl comparisons... keep in mind this is not exact obviously

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2011, 12:36 PM
I've been comparing Luck to Eli for months now so I like that one.

Babylon
01-04-2011, 01:24 PM
I've been comparing Luck to Eli for months now so I like that one.

A little more mobile i would think, i like Matt Ryan.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2011, 01:38 PM
A little more mobile i would think, i like Matt Ryan.

He is more mobile for sure. That's really the only difference I see though.

MetSox17
01-04-2011, 01:55 PM
Ryan Mallet - Phillip Rivers (without the polish)


This one i think is terrible. Rivers at NCST was a mobile, extremely accurate qb with above average arm strength. Mallet is a big, tall, immobile qb with a laser rocket arm and serious accuracy/decision making issues. Just a bad comparison top to bottom.

yourfavestoner
01-04-2011, 02:01 PM
I liken Luck to Rich Gannon on steroids.

K Train
01-04-2011, 02:05 PM
Mallet= the illegitimate love child of drew bledsoe and joe flacco, maybe with a little derrek anderson sprinkled in

D-Unit
01-04-2011, 02:07 PM
What if McShay is wrong about where Gabbert gets taken, but in the end... right about him turning out to be better than Mallett, Locker and Newton?

I don't like McShay, but I like his balls to make this kind of call now before anyone else would even think it. So what if he did the same kind of thing when he said Tony Pike was a first rounder. lol. Love the guts.

Babylon
01-04-2011, 02:15 PM
What if McShay is wrong about where Gabbert gets taken, but in the end... right about him turning out to be better than Mallett, Locker and Newton?

I don't like McShay, but I like his balls to make this kind of call now before anyone else would even think it. So what if he did the same kind of thing when he said Tony Pike was a first rounder. lol. Love the guts.

Is he trying to make a splash or is he hearing from someone inside a team who really likes the guy?. I'd think Gabbert may be a safe bet in about the middle of all the top QBs but to slot him in the top 5 reminds me of a race track tout who gives so many tips occasionally he scores by being right.

keylime_5
01-04-2011, 02:29 PM
Am I the only person who thinks this an extremely strong QB class? I mean really compared to a lot of the most recent years especially. Pro Comparisons:

Andrew Luck - Eli Manning
Blaine Gabbert - Kevin Kolb
Cam Newton - Vince Young
Jake Locker - Jay Cutler (definately the worst of the comparisons)
Ryan Mallet - Phillip Rivers (without the polish)

I expect ridicule and comments though from these comparisons....and to hear some other people's nfl comparisons... keep in mind this is not exact obviously

apparently you don't realize that Mallett has one of the strongest arms in football (college or pro) and Rivers' arm strength is below average.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-04-2011, 02:39 PM
I've said it before, but Luck is going to be compared to every QB in the NFL before the end of the draft evaluation process.

And I've been touting this as a sick QB class for a while. Say what you will about the prospects you don't like but in other years one of the more maligned guys like Locker would still be the first guy off the board

Luck - brilliant, good tools, not a finished product which is the most amazing thing
Newton - one of the most impressive college seasons ever, amazing tools, huge upside
Locker - 4 years of game reps, high level leadership/intangibles, amazing tools
Gabbert - great tools, untapped potential
Mallett - quite possibly the best arm in the NFL, excellent size, improving

You're telling me if you don't put Mallett in JaMarcus' position a couple years back he doesn't go #1 overall as long as he doesn't murder a crackwhore between now and the draft?

edit: Don't forget the depth either.

Devlin - next guy from Delaware, not as toolsy as Flacco but seems a solid player
Kaepernick - great tools, rocket arm
Ponder - whatever
Dalton - most wins in school history that includes Sammy Baugh and Davey OBrien
McElroy - will be an ace clipboard holder
Enderle - could be a tools pick like Skleton this year
Stanzi - homeless man's jake delhomme
Tolzien - weak arm but productive with requisite size
Tyrod - at the least a weapon as an athlete you can run trick plays with, at best a homeless man's Vick

K Train
01-04-2011, 02:41 PM
the only way mallet and rivers compare is that they are both tall, white southern kids

jrdrylie
01-04-2011, 02:48 PM
Am I the only person who thinks this an extremely strong QB class? I mean really compared to a lot of the most recent years especially. Pro Comparisons:

Andrew Luck - Eli Manning
Blaine Gabbert - Kevin Kolb
Cam Newton - Vince Young
Jake Locker - Jay Cutler (definately the worst of the comparisons)
Ryan Mallet - Phillip Rivers (without the polish)

I expect ridicule and comments though from these comparisons....and to hear some other people's nfl comparisons... keep in mind this is not exact obviously

I like the Luck-Manning comparison but am I crazy to think Luck is similar physically to Mark Sanchez? Luck is obviously a better prospect.Haven't watched too much Missouri football, but from what I've seen, I don't think him and Kolb are very similar. I think Locker is a slightyl faster David Garrard. And Mallett is definitely a rich man's Derek Anderson.

Crickett
01-04-2011, 03:08 PM
Andrew Luck - Brett Favre
Blaine Gabbert - Brett Favre
Cam Newton - Brett Favre
Jake Locker - Brett Favre
Ryan Mallet - Brett Favre


Why yes, I have been watching ESPN, why do you ask?

jrdrylie
01-04-2011, 03:11 PM
Andrew Luck - Brett Favre
Blaine Gabbert - Brett Favre
Cam Newton - Brett Favre
Jake Locker - Brett Favre
Ryan Mallet - Brett Favre


Why yes, I have been watching ESPN, why do you ask?

No you couldn't have been watching ESPN. Because if you really have been watching ESPN, you would know that no QB compares with Brett Favre. According to them, he can do no wrong. He makes a mistake, who cares? He completely sucks up the joint, he's still the best QB ever. On second thought, I guess Locker and Favre do compare in that way.

D-Unit
01-04-2011, 03:19 PM
Is he trying to make a splash or is he hearing from someone inside a team who really likes the guy?. I'd think Gabbert may be a safe bet in about the middle of all the top QBs but to slot him in the top 5 reminds me of a race track tout who gives so many tips occasionally he scores by being right.
I think he's trying to make a splash for sure...hoping he hits. He's no better informed than you or I or any conscious draft observer.

wordofi
01-04-2011, 05:16 PM
Am I the only person who thinks this an extremely strong QB class? I mean really compared to a lot of the most recent years especially. Pro Comparisons:

Andrew Luck - Eli Manning
Blaine Gabbert - Kevin Kolb
Cam Newton - Vince Young
Jake Locker - Jay Cutler (definately the worst of the comparisons)
Ryan Mallet - Phillip Rivers (without the polish)

I expect ridicule and comments though from these comparisons....and to hear some other people's nfl comparisons... keep in mind this is not exact obviously

If Andrew Luck is similar to Eli Manning, then I would have to pass. The only reason Eli Manning gets all the attention he does is because he plays in New York. He's a good quarterback at best, just barely in the top 10.

keylime_5
01-04-2011, 05:27 PM
I think Eli has a little better zip on his deep ball than Luck, and his accuracy downfield doesn't seem to be as good at the same stage of his career as Luck's is. He reminds me of Matt Ryan a lot, but he's similar to both Mannings, though he's definitely more mobile.

yourfavestoner
01-04-2011, 05:36 PM
I think Eli has a little better zip on his deep ball than Luck, and his accuracy downfield doesn't seem to be as good at the same stage of his career as Luck's is. He reminds me of Matt Ryan a lot, but he's similar to both Mannings, though he's definitely more mobile.

That's what sets him apart as a prospect. His ability to work in confined spaces is quite amazing for such a young player.

LonghornsLegend
01-04-2011, 05:51 PM
Locker still isn't the Prospect that Luck is.

Currently my top QB prospects stand:
1. Luck Grade: Top 3 1 overall.
2. Mallett: Mid to late 1st.
3. Gabbert: 2nd round
4. Locker: 2nd round
5. Newton: 3rd round

Just because he has more film, doesn't mean he is better than those guys. Luck is an elite prospect and only one that deserves to be picked in the top 5 let alone the top 10.


That's just not the way it works with QB's. Teams don't sit back and wait for guys like that. Otherwise Tebow would have gone in the 2nd, same with Flacco, Freeman, etc. Just because they play QB their stock goes up, so Mallett will be top 10, and Gabbert and Locker a team will trade up in the middle of the 1st.


No way Newton is going that late. You may not personally be high on him, but let's not ignore the fact that he's for sure going in the 1st round.


Only one who has a shot of not making it is Locker, which makes 4. 3 if Luck doesn't declare. People reach for QB's all the time, it's gonna happen.

descendency
01-04-2011, 06:05 PM
Andrew Luck - Eli Manning
Blaine Gabbert - Kevin Kolb
Cam Newton - Vince Young
Jake Locker - Jay Cutler (definately the worst of the comparisons)
Ryan Mallet - Phillip Rivers (without the polish)

Cutler's arm is significantly better than Locker's. That could be a really bad thing (less arm, more gunslinger... more INTs)

Ryan Mallett is closer to an extremely poor man's Drew Bledsoe than Phillip Rivers. I don't know that anyone can succeed with Mallett's athleticism, size, accuracy combination. Derek Anderson is my personal favorite for him right now. Rivers is a significantly better QB than Mallett.

Cam Newton comparisons should be taken with a grain of salt. One group says he's too inexperienced to take with a first rounder and the other group compares him (steadfastly, I might add) to Vince Young. Does no one see a contradiction there? I could just as easily throw out Ben Roethlisberger.

Andrew Luck is a rich man's Eli. (I like that one)

Blaine Gabbert doesn't do anything for me.

the only way mallet and rivers compare is that they are both tall, white southern kids

I guess that means I shouldn't compare Julio Jones to Randy Moss because they are both tall, black, southern WRs?

Babylon
01-04-2011, 06:21 PM
]Cutler's arm is significantly better than Locker's. That could be a really bad thing (less arm, more gunslinger... more INTs)

Ryan Mallett is closer to an extremely poor man's Drew Bledsoe than Phillip Rivers. I don't know that anyone can succeed with Mallett's athleticism, size, accuracy combination. Derek Anderson is my personal favorite for him right now. Rivers is a significantly better QB than Mallett.

Cam Newton comparisons should be taken with a grain of salt. One group says he's too inexperienced to take with a first rounder and the other group compares him (steadfastly, I might add) to Vince Young. Does no one see a contradiction there? I could just as easily throw out Ben Roethlisberger.

Andrew Luck is a rich man's Eli. (I like that one)

Blaine Gabbert doesn't do anything for me.



I guess that means I shouldn't compare Julio Jones to Randy Moss because they are both tall, black, southern WRs?

First off I'll put Locker's arm up against Cutler's and second i'd hardly call him a gunslinger, i actually would rather see him taking more chances with the ball.

keylime_5
01-04-2011, 06:26 PM
Locker has a fine arm and is a fantastic athlete. Cutler is in the elite class of arm strength. Locker I'm not so sure, but you won't see Locker struggling to push the ball down field. I don't think Locker can fit the ball into as tight of spaces as Cutler though, Cutler has always been a pretty advanced passer even though he has that risky gunslinger mentality, Locker has the tools but isn't the passer that Cutler ever was, at least he's not yet.

Babylon
01-04-2011, 06:33 PM
Locker has a fine arm and is a fantastic athlete. Cutler is in the elite class of arm strength. Locker I'm not so sure, but you won't see Locker struggling to push the ball down field. I don't think Locker can fit the ball into as tight of spaces as Cutler though, Cutler has always been a pretty advanced passer even though he has that risky gunslinger mentality, Locker has the tools but isn't the passer that Cutler ever was, at least he's not yet.

Not sure what the jugs gun on a football would say for the two but Jake can throw a baseball 95 mph, not sure if that translates over. As you imply physical ability isnt his problem.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-04-2011, 06:39 PM
Not sure what the jugs gun on a football would say for the two but Jake can throw a baseball 95 mph, not sure if that translates over. As you imply physical ability isnt his problem.

It doesn't.

Poz51
01-05-2011, 07:44 AM
Surely the Bills recently spent a high first round pick on a CB who can help in the return game??? They have problems stopping the run, rushing the passer, protecting the QB and general QB play. But they take a CB? I think they'd have a hard time passing up Bowers, Dareus or Quinn or maybe even Cam Newton

How can Buffalo take a DB? That won't happen.

Dont be surprised if they do take a CB, I have been saying this for a little while now. The current administration has no ties to McKelvin, same as Maybin. McKelvin was not the starter heading into the season, an injury to McGee landed him in that spot opposite Florence who is a FA, and might not be back. With McGee's injuries becoming more frequent and nagging as he enters his 30's, and the possibility of Florence leaving, cornerback is becoming more and more of a possibility day by day. To top it off, McKelvin was targeted by several teams this year successfully. It very well COULD happen.

Poz51
01-05-2011, 08:10 AM
Am I the only person who thinks this an extremely strong QB class? I mean really compared to a lot of the most recent years especially.


And I've been touting this as a sick QB class for a while.
edit: Don't forget the depth either.


I agree with both of you, this could be the best overall class since 2004 in terms of top end talent. JFINK you are not alone... SchizoBatman, I originally was not on the Bus with you, but am now, and with Gabbert declaring it not only got deeper, but much sicker overall. I dont see the sure things as I did with the 04 class (Roethlisberger, Rivers, Eli too, although I would put Luck in that category in this class should he come out), but the upside and potential overall could excede the 04 class overall. I could easily see 4 QB's in the top 10 (Carolina, Buffalo, Cincinatti, Arizona, Cleveland, San Francisco, Tennessee, and Washington all could or should be targeting a QB), and right now I would not be surprised at all to see 5 if Luck comes out, and certain things play out with various teams in the top ten, unlikely? sure it is, but possible... As for McShay, I try not to bash him, because he was high on Maybin, the Bills picked him, and I can not say Maybin without a horrible vomit taste appearing in my mouth to this day... But he puts himself out there, Gabbert IMO is not a top 5 pick, however McShay does actually get paid for this...

K Train
01-05-2011, 10:37 AM
I guess that means I shouldn't compare Julio Jones to Randy Moss because they are both tall, black, southern WRs?

no you shouldnt compare those two because they are nothing alike other than they are tall black southern WRs.....so basically you proved my point.

JFINK11
01-06-2011, 11:16 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys. I posted that last thing to learn a little more about the prospects. I have watched very little on Cam Newton, a lot on Jake Locker (I have a hard time placing him as an exact comparison with anyone but right now he's my personal number 2 ahead of Gabbert), some of Ryan Mallet but I didn't want to use the Derek Anderson comparison because thats all anyone says. Gabbert hype confuses me. He appears to have Locker arm tools but without a Pro Style offense of athleticism. I mean yes locker has struggled this year but within an offense thats similar to the one he'll run in the NFL and numerous reads. Gabbert is playing in an offense where the majority of what he is doing now might and i stress might be used in a two minute drive. Why do so many quarterbacks get pounded for being a part of a system and not him? Tools yes he has them but I just dont get the instant fan fare.

yourfavestoner
01-06-2011, 11:32 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys. I posted that last thing to learn a little more about the prospects. I have watched very little on Cam Newton, a lot on Jake Locker (I have a hard time placing him as an exact comparison with anyone but right now he's my personal number 2 ahead of Gabbert), some of Ryan Mallet but I didn't want to use the Derek Anderson comparison because thats all anyone says. Gabbert hype confuses me. He appears to have Locker arm tools but without a Pro Style offense of athleticism. I mean yes locker has struggled this year but within an offense thats similar to the one he'll run in the NFL and numerous reads. Gabbert is playing in an offense where the majority of what he is doing now might and i stress might be used in a two minute drive. Why do so many quarterbacks get pounded for being a part of a system and not him? Tools yes he has them but I just dont get the instant fan fare.

This is one of the biggest fallacies in scouting. What offense you run in college is irrelevant and should bear little to no weight in a prospect's overall grade.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-06-2011, 12:37 PM
I think a big thing with the system knock is that the NFL got duped when Tim Couch came out of Kentucky running the Air Raid. "Spread" offenses are a lot more advanced now depending where you look (Missouri for example) but I still don't think that system was a good fit for Gabbert's ability. Which is even more reason to come out now. He gains nothing going back other than maybe a less competitive draft class. Maybe

But yea, people make way too much of it. You need the tools to succeed mentally and physically. As long as you have good footwork playing in a spread doesnt mean much. Hell, McNabb ran the option in college

JFINK11
01-06-2011, 12:42 PM
This is one of the biggest fallacies in scouting. What offense you run in college is irrelevant and should bear little to no weight in a prospect's overall grade.

Yes but you fully scout a player without watching him take a 3 step, 5 step, or hand off from center. You ahve to hope you can develop them. Plus sure is an issue with scouting. Why else would,

Andre Ware
Akili Smith
Alex Smith
Tim Couch
Brian Brohm
Joey Harrington

Why were these players drafted so high and so highly regarded before the draft if the system doesn't make a difference? I am not saying a player can't go from system to nfl and make it. Sam Bradford is developing nicely and Kevin Kolb doesn't look half bad. You know what Locker can do and things he can improve upon. With Gabbert, I just feel we really can't fully evaluate him yet. I'd love to see him in an All Star game but thats not going to happen. Gabbert might work out I just feel like with him its more of a guessing game. We're guessing he's going to workout and be able to play an NFL offense. That's all a system does is muddle scouting for us. Not determine if they're going to be a better player.