PDA

View Full Version : What Are the Chances?


RaiderNation
01-03-2011, 10:25 PM
What if the Broncos do hire Jim Harbaugh, and want to draft Andrew Luck? For some reason I can only see Harbaugh as the Broncos coach in the NFL this year, and if he does get signed how could he get Luck?

Answer: Tim Tebow?

The Panthers could get Tebow, who has shown some potential in his limited starting time. Clausen has done the opposite of Tebow, struggling all season and has shown next to no flashes. With a new coach coming in( you never know, it could be McDaniels?) and wanting Tebow this trade could happen.

Panthers Get: QB Tim Tebow, #2

Broncos Get: #1(Andrew Luck)

Panthers could then get a WR like AJ Green to pair with Tebow, or a defender like DE Da'Quan Bowers, DT Nick Fairley or DB Patrick Peterson at the #2 pick.

MetSox17
01-03-2011, 10:27 PM
If the Panthers ever even entertained the idea of passing on Luck to have Tim Tebow as their QB instead, the GM deserves to be raped, hanged and burned. And no one would ever feel sorry for the Panthers rotting in NFL obscurity for the subsequent decade.

DBNYDP
01-03-2011, 10:30 PM
I like Tebow, and I think he'll be pretty good.
But Luck..
Regardless Broncos have a lot of defensive needs, and they cannot afford to trade away picks and neglect defense.

JPP90
01-03-2011, 10:33 PM
Absolutely positively 0.

bucfan12
01-03-2011, 10:36 PM
Luck is putting on a show here tonight. If the Panthers pass on Luck, everyone should be fired. There is no way in h*ll Jimmy Clausen would match to the standings of Luck.

keylime_5
01-03-2011, 10:37 PM
I'd say the chances are pretty good.

bucfan12
01-03-2011, 10:42 PM
If Andrew Luck declares, it would take an offer more than the Bears got for Jay Cutler to give Carolina any consideration of trading the first pick.

DcmRulz
01-03-2011, 10:49 PM
I love Clausen and think he'll be a franchise player at his peak, but Andrew Luck might be the most valuable player (in terms of trade value) in the league. He's just that good.

Cigaro
01-03-2011, 10:50 PM
**** no. Tim Tebow doesn't remotely compare to Luck.

Scott Wright
01-03-2011, 10:51 PM
No team, including the Carolina Panthers, is passing up the chance to acquire Andrew Luck.

bucfan12
01-03-2011, 10:51 PM
I love Clausen and think he'll be a franchise player at his peak, but Andrew Luck might be the most valuable player (in terms of trade value) in the league. He's just that good.

Clausen showed no flashes that a team would like to see. Andrew Luck is an elite prospect. You don't pass him up. Clausen isn't a leader and honestly, has doesn't have the attitude and character to be a franchise guy. He is a total dousche, that is why he got punched in the face by a notre dame fan last season.

SeanTaylorRIP
01-03-2011, 10:54 PM
**** no. Tim Tebow doesn't remotely compare to Luck.

I too think the idea is crazy but for the record what the trade would be is Tim Tebow+AJ Green/Patrick Peterson/Marcel Darreus etc instead of just Luck.

RaiderNation
01-03-2011, 11:02 PM
I too think the idea is crazy but for the record what the trade would be is Tim Tebow+AJ Green/Patrick Peterson/Marcel Darreus etc instead of just Luck.

Exactly. They kill 2 birds with one stone better much. They get 2 impact players while paying Tebow late 1st money compared to #1 overall QB money. I dont think Dareus is a top 5 pick though, I instead would put Fairley

DBNYDP
01-03-2011, 11:05 PM
Exactly. They kill 2 birds with one stone better much. They get 2 impact players while paying Tebow late 1st money compared to #1 overall QB money. I dont think Dareus is a top 5 pick though, I instead would put Fairley
It makes sense, but I don't think you pass on Luck for Tebow.
He is just that good. It would be like...
Tebow + #2 +#33? + some other draft pick to get Luck.
The point is if they were to get Luck..it is more likely that the Broncos are left with like 1 draft pick..

MetSox17
01-03-2011, 11:06 PM
Exactly. They kill 2 birds with one stone better much. They get 2 impact players while paying Tebow late 1st money compared to #1 overall QB money. I dont think Dareus is a top 5 pick though, I instead would put Fairley

How exactly would they be killing two birds with one stone? It's not like they're getting a top level NFL quarterback, they'd be getting Tim ************* Tebow. It would be absolutely 100% ******* ******** for them to pass on Andrew Luck to have Tim Tebow and AJ Green or whoever the hell else you wanna take at #2. It's an incredibly dumb idea, man.

RaiderNation
01-03-2011, 11:06 PM
As a 3-4 DE I would probably put Dareus over Fairley.

The Panthers dont run a 3-4 defense though

EDIT: or any defense I guee since they dont have a coach lol. But I think their talent on defnese is 4-3 suited and it would be a mistake to change the D up.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-03-2011, 11:08 PM
If this goes down, or any scenario even remotely similar to it, I would blow my brains out

MetSox17
01-03-2011, 11:10 PM
or any defense I guee since they dont have a coach lol. But I think their talent on defnese is 4-3 suited and it would be a mistake to change the D up.

Right, cause in the context of this conversation, that would be a big mistake...

SchizophrenicBatman
01-03-2011, 11:11 PM
We're pretty heavily locked into the 4-3. Beason in a 3-4 = Vilma. The rest of our LB core is pretty good too and few would make the transition well. Most of the guys suited to the change are fringe players and we'd have NOTHING at the nose or 5-tech

SeanTaylorRIP
01-03-2011, 11:13 PM
If the Broncos move up to #1 it won't include Tebow. It would likely include their other picks if for whatever reason the Panthers aren't sold on taking Luck and would rather get multiple picks to fill holes. The Broncos wouldn't even need to move Tebow. Still use him as a situational QB. With all of this said the Panthers aren't passing up on Luck.

DBNYDP
01-03-2011, 11:36 PM
Yea that was my bad, as soon as I posted I remembered they run a 4-3.
I was thinking about the Broncos for whatever reason when mentioning those guys.

JPP90
01-03-2011, 11:57 PM
Let's talk about the Bills trading Fitzpatrick and Kyle Williams...maybe 1st rounders the next 2 years to move up to 1 and get Luck. That wouldn't happen either, but anything can on here..

SeanTaylorRIP
01-04-2011, 12:06 AM
It's obviously crazy if they did it but if the Panthers somehow felt comfortable with Mallett or Newton as their future franchise signal caller, the value of moving down could help rebuild their team. Just a thought.

JPP90
01-04-2011, 12:51 AM
It's obviously crazy if they did it but if the Panthers somehow felt comfortable with Mallett or Newton as their future franchise signal caller, the value of moving down could help rebuild their team. Just a thought.

There's 1 guy in the draft that you replace Clausen with after only 1 year and its Luck. Its Luck or you address another need.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-04-2011, 01:15 AM
I'd replace Clausen with Newton, Gabbert and possibly Locker depending on interviews. Clausen is not a franchise quarterback

People overrate trading down. The Giants still surrounded Eli with a great team despite losing the picks. And while the Chargers got some damn good players to go with Rivers in that trade, look at where they are now - Merriman is on the Bills (enough said), Kaeding is a kicker (whose regular season exploits are canceled out by his post season choking) and Roman Oben retired in 2 years

If the Panthers trade down, don't acquire a franchise QB in the process and Andrew Luck isn't a bust, it is a terrible move. There is no debate

JPP90
01-04-2011, 01:24 AM
If the Panthers didn't have other needs, then you can jump the gun on QB. But they wouldn't have the #1 pick without major needs and they're not required to hate Jimmy Clausen as much as fans do. To replace Jimmy Clausen with Cam Newton would be beyond idiotic.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-04-2011, 01:28 AM
ITT we name the needs as strong as QB that the Panthers have:

DT

ok done.

now what?

JPP90
01-04-2011, 01:36 AM
You're right, nothing. That's why they're such a great team. This board is so intelligent that it just introduced the next conspiracy theory...Jimmy Clausen is the root of all Carolina's problems. Replace him and you're a playoff team. Got it.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-04-2011, 01:48 AM
nah replace him and we go 5-11 and end up with the next aaron maybin.

he was actually the most valuable panther this year. without him we are stuck in mediocrity for a long time

i'll seriously entertain your grand plan that involves trading down (let's say Luck pulls an Eli, or Luck doesnt come out but someone still wants the #1 anyway) and going into next season with Clausen at QB (or signing some FA to play for a while with the plan that Clausen eventually takes over). suggest it

JPP90
01-04-2011, 01:55 AM
Buddy...I wasn't the one suggesting anything cute. I just said if you're going to go QB and replace Clausen, the only QB you can call a "home run" and get away with that with is Luck. Otherwise you take Green or Fairley and like it or not, go with Clausen another year.

kalbears13
01-04-2011, 02:01 AM
I think a lot can change between now and then. Maybe if there's a close #2 QB that's worth taking at #2 overall and Denver offered someone other then Tebow. Right now, if Luck declared and the draft was tomorrow, i can't see the trade happening. But anything can happen between now and the draft. Brady Quinn was a surefire top 3 pick going into that draft at this point in 2007 and he dropped to 22...

The title made me think of this...

KX5jNnDMfxA

SchizophrenicBatman
01-04-2011, 02:06 AM
Buddy...I wasn't the one suggesting anything cute. I just said if you're going to go QB and replace Clausen, the only QB you can call a "home run" and get away with that with is Luck. Otherwise you take Green or Fairley and like it or not, go with Clausen another year.

Luck looks like you're trying to hit a home run with Albert Pujols

You can still try to hit a home run with Matt Holliday (maybe you hit it, maybe you K, maybe you just get a double), Ryan Howard (good shot to hit it, equally high chance you K) or even Carlos Pena (well...you might hit a homer but you're probably just going to K)

Clausen looks like a sac bunt with a really fast runner

Woodie
01-04-2011, 02:25 AM
If Luck declares, there's no way the Panthers pass on him. Nobody would be willing to give up what it would take to pry him loose, which is probably each of the team's 1st, 2nd, and maybe even 3rd round picks for the next decade. In other words, it's simply not happening.

And we really do not have as many needs as many think (we just got rid of our biggest problem). Most can be filled with our current draft picks and in FA, where we have loads of money available. We also have a very solid core, and only need to plug a few holes to become competative again...and Luck would be the biggest plug of them all.

JPP90
01-04-2011, 02:28 AM
Luck looks like you're trying to hit a home run with Albert Pujols

You can still try to hit a home run with Matt Holliday (maybe you hit it, maybe you K, maybe you just get a double), Ryan Howard (good shot to hit it, equally high chance you K) or even Carlos Pena (well...you might hit a homer but you're probably just going to K)

Clausen looks like a sac bunt with a really fast runner

To you. The reality is that he's a 2nd rd QB with a lot of potential from a pro-style college offense with 1 season of NFL experience. You don't throw in the towel on QBs like that too soon. San Diego should have given Brees 1 more year...luckily Rivers panned out or good god god the backlash. I heard this same crap from Jamarcus Russell and Oakland fans in 07. Imagine this, I wasn't a fan of him back when all these people who won't admit it today were intoxicated with his arm and his (gulp) numbers. I said they should stick with Andrew Walter 1 more year and take the home run WR, Calvin Johnson. Oh I got ripped to shreds for it. Course in retrospect Oakland could have Calvin Johnson and Joe Flacco today rather than Jason Campbell and Darrius Heyward-Bey. Oh well, what do I know? Jump on that QB!

GB12
01-04-2011, 02:41 AM
I think almost everyone agrees that the Panthers would not choose to give up Luck. However, what if he's a ***** and pulls the Elway/Eli BS and refuses to play in Carolina.

JPP90
01-04-2011, 02:47 AM
I think almost everyone agrees that the Panthers would not choose to give up Luck. However, what if he's a ***** and pulls the Elway/Eli BS and refuses to play in Carolina.

Just an FYI for everyone...you see how SD handles everyone not named Philip Rivers? That is why Archie didn't want Eli playing in SD. Its hard to build a great team shopping at the dollar store. They just had some insight into how the Spanos and AJ Smith work. And who would wanna deal with that smug prick AJ Smith anyway?

SchizophrenicBatman
01-04-2011, 02:55 AM
I'm not as sold as some of our fans that the Panthers are some outlier #1 pick team. There is talent in this organization, but the fact is the team went 2-14 and looked quite hopeless while doing it. Whoever the new coach is should be applauded if he even so much as triples the win total next year

However, what fans from outside the Carolinas don't realize is there really isn't anywhere else to upgrade as drastically as QB, and it isn't even close

OLine: Provided Ryan Kalil (our best lineman) re-signs, 4 of 5 players are locked in to long term deals. The only opening is at RG, and unless something changed since I last checked, there is no RG going #1 overall this year. Big time run blocker, RT Jeff Otah, was out injured all season, and while he's been proven to be injury prone over his career...I'm not sure how you cut the cord with him if you won't cut the cord with Clausen

RBs: Don't need to elaborate here. Even if DeAngelo is traded/let go in FA, this is not a need

WR: The WR core is 3 rookies, David Clowney and Steve Smith. Not sure how taking another inexperienced receiver helps your QB, but if you want to trade Smith and take AJ Green, I guess that's an option

TE: Fluff. I suppose if you want to give us a TE you can since mock drafters have been doing so since Wesley Walls retired

DE: Charles Johnson (11.5 sacks on the year, good run defender), Greg Hardy (showed some potential, very raw), Everette Brown (the Jimmy Clausen of DEs) and fluff. Don't see how this is a big "need" but the guy opposite Johnson could be improved

DT: Trash heap guys here, but that's what happens when you hire Ron Meeks to be your DC. Derek Landri might be able to be a rotational guy on a good team. If there was a Suh or even a McCoy this year, I'd say go for it. Is there?

LB: The most stacked position on the team. The Panthers are loaded at RB and LB...the two lowest value positions in the NFL. They certainly shouldn't look to upgrade the highest value position

CB: Gamble is locked in long term, Richard Marshall looks like he's not being brought back and Captain Munnerlyn is a solid player, but looks better the further down the depth chart he is. Other guys are end of roster fluff. Will need help here

S: Charles Godfrey is awful but somehow is on the Pro Bowl alternates. Sherrod Martin is a solid 2nd year player. The guys behind them play well on special teams and have made some plays in limited action on defense as well

I suppose you can take someone like Patrick Peterson to add to the DBs but I'm really failing to see how THAT makes a 2-14 squad any better. How many years did the Rams take "other needs" in the top 5 before getting Bradford? Didn't they pass on Ryan?

JPP90
01-04-2011, 03:03 AM
So basically the only player that can help your team is a QB since guys like AJ Green, Nick Fairley and Patrick Peterson are like twisting your arm. It sounds to me like you want a QB and anything less is just disappointing to you. Gamble was benched and Marshall isn't coming back, yet Peterson couldn't do anything for you. Fairley can't upgrade a star-studded DT rotation with guys like Derek Landri in it. No, you need Jimmy replaced. That's your right if you're a Panther fan. I have my preferences as a Giant fan...I wish you'd hire Coughlin aaway for starters.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-04-2011, 03:05 AM
To you. The reality is that he's a 2nd rd QB with a lot of potential from a pro-style college offense with 1 season of NFL experience. You don't throw in the towel on QBs like that too soon. San Diego should have given Brees 1 more year...luckily Rivers panned out or good god god the backlash. I heard this same crap from Jamarcus Russell and Oakland fans in 07. Imagine this, I wasn't a fan of him back when all these people who won't admit it today were intoxicated with his arm and his (gulp) numbers. I said they should stick with Andrew Walter 1 more year and take the home run WR, Calvin Johnson. Oh I got ripped to shreds for it. Course in retrospect Oakland could have Calvin Johnson and Joe Flacco today rather than Jason Campbell and Darrius Heyward-Bey. Oh well, what do I know? Jump on that QB!

Brees is literally the ONLY guy in the last decade a team has given up too early on. There have to be at least 25 examples of the opposite. Brees is also the only 2nd round qb in as long as I can remember who hasn't sucked balls.

How is Calvin Johnson doing now? How many playoff games has he won? Ask Larry Fitzgerald how he's enjoying life with the Andrew Walters of the world. The Panthers haven't ever really had a franchise QB, they have to try to get one while they can. Their only other attempt was taking Kerry Collins in their inaugural season. I'm not saying you take Christian Ponder and pray you're right when everyone else is laughing at you (kinda like when they took Jimmy last year), I'm saying you go after one of the other 3 or 4 legitimate first round prospects out there. Find which one is the best fit and take him

The Falcons should have taken HOME RUN Glenn Dorsey over INT MACHINE Matt Ryan, right?

SchizophrenicBatman
01-04-2011, 03:12 AM
So basically the only player that can help your team is a QB since guys like AJ Green, Nick Fairley and Patrick Peterson are like twisting your arm. It sounds to me like you want a QB and anything less is just disappointing to you. Gamble was benched and Marshall isn't coming back, yet Peterson couldn't do anything for you. Fairley can't upgrade a star-studded DT rotation with guys like Derek Landri in it. No, you need Jimmy replaced. That's your right if you're a Panther fan. I have my preferences as a Giant fan...I wish you'd hire Coughlin aaway for starters.

as a giant fan let me ask you

would you rather not have Eli since he isn't the BEST qb in the nfl or even really top 5 (I dont want to get into an Eli argument so let's just cut it off there)? i mean, you could have picked up a SURE FIRE STUD like Robert Gallery, Sean Taylor, Larry Fitzgerald, Kellen Winslow (****ING SOLDIER version) or DeAngelo Hall

JPP90
01-04-2011, 03:16 AM
Brees is literally the ONLY guy in the last decade a team has given up too early on. There have to be at least 25 examples of the opposite. Brees is also the only 2nd round qb in as long as I can remember who hasn't sucked balls.

How is Calvin Johnson doing now? How many playoff games has he won? Ask Larry Fitzgerald how he's enjoying life with the Andrew Walters of the world. The Panthers haven't ever really had a franchise QB, they have to try to get one while they can. Their only other attempt was taking Kerry Collins in their inaugural season. I'm not saying you take Christian Ponder and pray you're right when everyone else is laughing at you (kinda like when they took Jimmy last year), I'm saying you go after one of the other 3 or 4 legitimate first round prospects out there. Find which one is the best fit and take him

The Falcons should have taken HOME RUN Glenn Dorsey over INT MACHINE Matt Ryan, right?

Oh good christ I shouldn't have expected you to follow my post. First of all, go ahead and make yourself sound like a complete idiot and nitpick Calvin Johnson for not being in a playoff game with the Lions...yeah that guy is a BUM! Lmao. Wow buddy.

Now to make a long story short, shouldn't have expected someone named "schizophrenic batman" to follow this but I wasn't saying Andrew Walter is a good QB. I was saying think of it this way...Russell had huge flaws coming out. Furthest thing from a home run. All he had was a huge arm...nothing else. Play it safe and pass and take Johnson. You fail with walter that year and grab Joe Flacco in 08. Consequently there's no need to take Darrius Heyward-Bey the following year and you avoid that disaster. But no, that makes too much sense and that's too hard for a person to even follow on a message board. Whatever.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-04-2011, 03:24 AM
yea man because joe flacco was a perfect prospect the next year. it's not like he fell to the late teens or was criticized for being a guy the scouts fell in love with just because of his arm either

im not nitpicking calvin johnson at all. the guy is awesome and will be one of the best WR in the nfl. but guess what man, WRs dont win you **** in the nfl. the panthers have gone to the super bowl with steve smith and theyve gone 2-14 with steve smith. what was the difference? qb play.

edit: To avoid triple post; here are my last thoughts on this. I will not flip out if the Panthers cannot acquire Luck for some reason and do not draft another QB to replace Clausen. I do believe it would be the best course of action. Replacing Clausen (at least temporarily) with a FA or trade would be an acceptable alternative, but I am not a fan of the options that will be available. I will be upset but ultimately understand if they start Clausen next year in this scenario.