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Razor
01-12-2011, 08:40 AM
So... Who’s overrated/underrated in this year’s draft? I’ll go first:

Overrated

Mark Ingram: A fine RB prospect but doesn’t possess any elite physical tools. A late first rounder, but not a top 15 player.

Anthony Costanzo: Has all the tools you like for in a tackle (although strength is a questionmark), but just doesn’t put it together on the field. He can be beat around the edge or bullrushed (I’ve seen him bullrushed by Steven Friday). First rounder on paper, not when you look at him play.

Akeem Ayers: Typical case of ”looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane”. His physical tools will have GMs and coaches drooling, but imo he’s not worthy of a first round pick.

Blaine Gabbert: Top 5, really? No way. I wouldn’t touch this guy in the first round, although he does have a lot of upside.

Jonathan Baldwin: Speed/size ratio doesn’t mean much in the NFL if you can’t run NFL routes. 3rd round player, but will be selected higher due to his upside. Supreme boom or bust prospect.

Jeff Maehl: Might not have great physical tools, but he has great route running ability and top notch intangibles.

Cam Newton: What can I say that hasn’t been said already?

Underrated:

Cam Jordan: Could go as high as Alualu and is just as good a prospect at this point imo.

Stephen Paea: This guy should be included in the top 15-20 conversation.

Christian Ponder: Didn’t have a great season but has the tools and intangibles to be a succesfuld NFL QB.

Michael Floyd: Injuries are a concern, but when healthy this guy is a top receiver.

JHL6719
01-12-2011, 09:06 AM
Overrated Quarterbacks:

- Virtually all of them


Underrated Quarterbacks:

- Pat Devlin

- T.J. Yates




Overrated Running Backs:

- Ryan Williams


Underrated Running Backs:

- Delone Carter

- Kendall Hunter



Overrated Wide Receivers:

- Jonathan Baldwin

- Greg Little


Underrated Wide Receivers:

- Denarius Moore

- Randall Cobb

- Jimmy Young

- Kris Adams

- Kealoha Pilares

- Frantrell Forrest

- Vincent Brown



Overrated Tight Ends:

- Zack Pianalto

- Charlie Gantt


Underrated Tight Ends:

- Jeff Anderson

- Virgil Green

- Cameron Graham



Overrated Tackles:

- Nate Solder

- Anthony Castonzo


Underrated Tackles:

- Lee Ziemba

- Darius Morris



Overrated Guards/Centers:

- Stefen Wisniewski


Underrated Guards/Centers:

- Ryan Bartholomew

- Matt Allen



Overrated Defensive Ends:

- Da'Quan Bowers


Underrated Defensive Ends:

- Pernell McPhee

- Sam Acho



Overrated Defensive Tackles:

- Christian Ballard

- Marvin Austin


Underrated Defensive Tackles:

- Phil Taylor

- Corey Liuget

- Chris Neild



Overrated Outside/Inside Linebackers:

- Akeem Ayers

- Greg Jones

- Mike Mohammed

- Josh Bynes


Underrated Outside/Inside Linebackers:

- Adrian Moten

- K.J. Wright

- Ross Homan

- Chris White

- Justin Springer




Overrated Cornerbacks:

- Ras-I Dowling


Underrated Cornerbacks:

- Johnny Patrick

- Davon House



Overrated Safeties:

- DeAndre McDaniel

- Rahim Moore


Underrated Safeties:

- Joe Lafeged

- Duke Ihenacho

- Tejay Johnson

- Jaiquan Jarrett

DiG
01-12-2011, 09:14 AM
Underrated:

Cam Jordan: Could go as high as Alualu and is just as good a prospect at this point imo.

Stephen Paea: This guy should be included in the top 15-20 conversation.

Christian Ponder: Didn’t have a great season but has the tools and intangibles to be a succesfuld NFL QB.

Michael Floyd: Injuries are a concern, but when healthy this guy is a top receiver.

Yes, Yes, NO, NO. I don't think Ponder or Floyd are overrated either. I think given their talent/risk their value is actually more often than not where it should be.

Some of mine:

Overrated (totally agree with Baldwin and Ayers previously posted so I won't repost):

1. All "Big 4" QBs - There are things I like and dislike about all of the big 4 QBs this year but I don't think that any of them are really top 5-10 talent. They all have their own different types of risk/weaknesses in their game. Thats not to say that none of them won't be successful because chances are at least 2 of them will be. But, when we start talking about the guaranteed money for top 10 drafted players, none of these 4 qbs give me the reassurance that guys like Matt Ryan, Stafford, Sanchez, Manning, Rivers, etc had coming out.

2. Nate Solder - fine prospect but extremely raw

3. Allen Bailey - not as impressive as a lot of the other 1st round prospects at his position. lacks a great burst off the line and doesnt take great angles. production doesnt match athleticism.

4. Aldon Smith - a ton of upside but still has a lot to learn/improve with his game, especially learning to work in space and improving against the run.

Underrated:

Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
Marcell Dareus, DL, Alabama
Greg Little, WR, UNC
Kenny Tate, FS, MD (homer pick)

P-L
01-12-2011, 09:26 AM
I agree with a lot that has been posted in this thread. All of the quarterbacks are overrated. Now that Luck has gone back to school, there isn't a quarterback in this draft class worthy of a top ten pick. Mark Ingram is pretty overrated too. He's good at everything, but not "special" at anything.

I think Cameron Jordan and Drake Nevis are both underrated right now.

A Perfect Score
01-12-2011, 11:01 AM
OVERRATED

QB Cam Newton
QB Blaine Gabbert
RB Mark Ingram
RB Ryan Williams
WR Jon Baldwin
OT Anthony Castonzo
DE Allen Bailey
LB Akeem Ayers (This one hurts, since I was very high on him before some really disappointing games this year.)
DT Marvin Austin

UNDERRATED

WR Michael Floyd
WR Jerrell Jernigan
RB DeMarco Murray
CB Jimmy Smith
DT Stephen Paea
DE Cam Jordan

K Train
01-12-2011, 11:04 AM
i think marvin austin is kinda getting underrated at this point

Razor
01-12-2011, 11:05 AM
i think marvin austin is kinda getting underrated at this point

To me he's an UDFA at this point.

ThePudge
01-12-2011, 11:11 AM
Overrated
QB Blaine Gabbert - Missouri
DE Adrian Clayborn - Iowa
LB Greg Jones - Michigan State
TE D.J. Williams - Arkansas
LB Bruce Carter - North Carolina
DE Aldon Smith - Missouri
WR Jonathan Baldwin - Pittsburgh
C/OG Rodney Hudson - Florida State
DT Marvin Austin - North Carolina

Underrated
DE Ryan Kerrigan - Purdue
DE J.J. Watt - Wisconsin
OG Keith Williams - Nebraska
OL Danny Watkins - Baylor
WR Randall Cobb - Kentucky*
CB Jimmy Smith - Colorado
LB Mason Foster - Washington
LB Quan Sturdivant - North Carolina
LB Justin Houston - Georgia
TE Lance Kendricks - Wisconsin

Babylon
01-12-2011, 11:11 AM
OVERRATED

QB Cam Newton
QB Blaine Gabbert
RB Mark Ingram
RB Ryan Williams
WR Jon Baldwin
OT Anthony Castonzo
DE Allen Bailey
LB Akeem Ayers (This one hurts, since I was very high on him before some really disappointing games this year.)
DT Marvin Austin

UNDERRATED

WR Michael Floyd
WR Jerrell Jernigan
RB DeMarco Murray
CB Jimmy Smith
DT Stephen Paea
DE Cam Jordan

Love this list although i'm not sure that Stephen Paea (late 1st,early 2nd) or Cam Jordan (mid to late 1st) arent about right.

A Perfect Score
01-12-2011, 11:14 AM
I think Cam Jordan is a legit Top 10 prospect and the best 5 tech in this class. I think Paea is the #2 4-3 DT after Fairley, he's going to be a monster as well.

TACKLE
01-13-2011, 02:53 PM
Well since APS and ThePudge stole most of my guys, I guess I'll have to be more selective. I'll include some repeats of guys I feel strongly about.

OVERRATED
Blaine Gabbert, Missouri
Mike Pouncey, Florida
Von Miller, Texas A&M (as a 3-4 OLB)
Akeem Ayers, UCLA
Derek Sherrod , Mississippi State
Nate Solder, Colorado


UNDERRATED
Mason Foster, Washington
JJ Watt, Wisconsin
Randall Cobb, Kentucky
Jimmy Smith, Colorado
Brandon Hogan, West Virginia
Titus Young, Boise State
Tim Barnes, Missouri
Ras-I Dowling, Virginia
Dwayne Harris, ECU

no bare feet
01-13-2011, 02:58 PM
Mason Foster, underrated.

JustDezIT
01-13-2011, 03:03 PM
I think Cam Jordan is a legit Top 10 prospect and the best 5 tech in this class. I think Paea is the #2 4-3 DT after Fairley, he's going to be a monster as well.

JJ Watt says hi. Their both ballers though.

TheMorningZoo
01-13-2011, 03:14 PM
Everyone keeps saying Castonzo is overrated, but he isn't a lock to be the top OT in this class, and is not even top 10 talk. People keep mocking Tyron Smith to the Cowboys at 9...That is overrated. Castonzo might not ever be an elite OT, but I think he could honestly step in possibly as a rook, if not after one year and lock down one side of the line for a long time. Kind of a like a Mark Tausher / Clifton for the Pack. They don't always garner all the accolades, but they get it doen week in and out and are solid. He has a BC pedigree, has the size but could use a little bulk, smart, but just needs some more strength. You can't teach size, intangibles, but CAN work on strength.

I think Newton, Gabbert, Pouncey and Solder are very overrated.

I think Christian Ponder, Jake Locker, Gabe Carimi are three prospects who are being very underrated right now

DiG
01-13-2011, 03:17 PM
OVERRATED
Mike Pouncey, Florida


as a C or G or both? cause as a C I agree but I do think hes still a stud guard prospect

JRTPlaya21
01-13-2011, 03:29 PM
Hate to break it to you guys but Floyd is coming back to Notre Dame. So he doesn't really belong on any list yet.

TACKLE
01-13-2011, 03:35 PM
as a C or G or both? cause as a C I agree but I do think hes still a stud guard prospect

Both.

I'm fine with him as a mid 2nd type but I really don't he's worth a first round pick like many are making him out to be. I think people are excited about him because of the success Maurkice had but even when they were both at Florida, it was pretty clear that Mike was the lesser of the two. He's doesn't quite have the balance or athleticism his brother had and is less technically sound. I think he has the ability to be a solid guard but there really isn't much that special about him that would make me want to take him in the first round.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-13-2011, 03:46 PM
I have to agree on Mike Pouncey. If he was as good a prospect as his brother he would be in the NFL right now, with his brother.

yourfavestoner
01-13-2011, 04:41 PM
Both.

I'm fine with him as a mid 2nd type but I really don't he's worth a first round pick like many are making him out to be. I think people are excited about him because of the success Maurkice had but even when they were both at Florida, it was pretty clear that Mike was the lesser of the two. He's doesn't quite have the balance or athleticism his brother had and is less technically sound. I think he has the ability to be a solid guard but there really isn't much that special about him that would make me want to take him in the first round.

Agreed. He's a good guard prospect, not a great one. He has better functional strength than Maurkice, but his feet and hips aren't as good. Second round is his ceiling.

Babylon
01-13-2011, 04:47 PM
Mason Foster, underrated.

If he's slated for the second round i agree. With a number of potential firsts deciding to stay Foster should find himself going late in round 1.

ElectricEye
01-13-2011, 04:51 PM
Overrated
QB Ryan Mallet
QB Blaine Gabbert
QB Pat Devlin
QB Cam Newton
RB Mark Ingram
RB Ryan Williams
ILB Greg Smith
OLB Akeem Ayers
OT Anthony Castanzo
DE Adrian Clayborne
DL Allen Bailey
WR Greg Little
OL Demarcus Love

Underrated
WR Randall Cobb
LT Nate Solder
CB Jimmy Smith
LB Mason Foster
DL Muhammad Wilkerson
QB Ricky Stanzi
WR Jeff Maehl
RB Mikel Leshoure

wicket
01-13-2011, 04:53 PM
I think people are starting to underrate clayborne by now tbqh

SenorGato
01-13-2011, 05:43 PM
In recent months, Cameron Heyward has become underrated.

TACKLE
01-13-2011, 05:49 PM
I think people are starting to underrate clayborne by now tbqh

I don't really see it. Many still have him pegged as a Top 25 pick despite the fact that he's played like a 2nd/3rd pick this season.

K Train
01-13-2011, 05:49 PM
I think marcus gilbert is pretty underrated as a LT/RT guy

superman8456
01-13-2011, 05:53 PM
I know Greg Romeus tore his ACL, but I still think people would be talking about him for a late round pick. He is getting absolutely no hype. Won't he be ready for Pitt's pro day?

Razor
01-13-2011, 06:08 PM
I agree with a lot that has been posted in this thread. All of the quarterbacks are overrated. Now that Luck has gone back to school, there isn't a quarterback in this draft class worthy of a top ten pick.

I agree with this. To be honest, I don't think there's a QB worthy of a first round selection right now. Sure, Mallet has potential. I've been on his bandwagon and defended him, but I've changed my mind. He just has too many flaws in his game to justify a first round selection. So does Locker. Gabbert shouldn't even be discussed as a first rounder, although he does have great upside. But he need at least one year (preferably two) before he's a NFL QB which in my opinion means that he's a second rounder. Cam Newton (if he declares) scares me. I see the potential, but there are red flags all over the place with this guy. He has JaMarcus Russell like bust potential.

JRTPlaya21
01-13-2011, 06:29 PM
Wait so your saying Mallett has too many flaws and so does Luck? Or Mallett has potential just like Luck but both wouldn't go in the first round? None of these guys are worthy of being top 10 picks but I'm sure teams will reach. It's proven of the NFL Draft. I will never for the life of me see what someone saw in like J.P. Losman.

Razor
01-13-2011, 06:35 PM
Wait so your saying Mallett has too many flaws and so does Luck? Or Mallett has potential just like Luck but both wouldn't go in the first round? None of these guys are worthy of being top 10 picks but I'm sure teams will reach. It's proven of the NFL Draft. I will never for the life of me see what someone saw in like J.P. Losman.

Haha, no... I failed, I meant Locker. I've edited my post to minimize the amount of fail in it.

JRTPlaya21
01-13-2011, 06:57 PM
Haha good deal then. At first I was left kind of scratching my head but I think I could piece it together.

ElectricEye
01-13-2011, 08:35 PM
I know Greg Romeus tore his ACL, but I still think people would be talking about him for a late round pick. He is getting absolutely no hype. Won't he be ready for Pitt's pro day?

I still love Romeus. Right up there with Quinn as one of the best pass rushers in the draft when he's healthy, but his injury history has to check out. I hope he's ready to go for Pitt's Pro Day as well.

TACKLE
01-16-2011, 09:18 PM
Underrated - Adrian Moten, LB, Maryland

bucfan12
01-16-2011, 09:25 PM
Underrated:
- Ahmad Black (gets knocked due to his size)
- Ryan Kerrigan (come on, still no love for this guy because he isn't a great athlete?

Overrated:
- Bowers DE Clemson: he struggled mightily his first 2 years and had 1 breakout year.
- Ryan Mallet: Huge arm but terrible intangibles and character issues.

Halsey
01-16-2011, 09:59 PM
Did Bowers really struggle his first two years, or did he simply not play up to the huge expectations he had coming out of high school? Those are not the same thing. When you're the top rated player on some rankings, people expect you to be an instant star. That doesn't mean Bowers is overrated. Remember, he isn't even 21 yet.

bucfan12
01-16-2011, 10:34 PM
Did Bowers really struggle his first two years, or did he simply not play up to the huge expectations he had coming out of high school? Those are not the same thing. When you're the top rated player on some rankings, people expect you to be an instant star. That doesn't mean Bowers is overrated. Remember, he isn't even 21 yet.

All I'm saying is he had one monster year and all of a sudden, he is a top 3 pick. That in my opinion, is risky, especially going into the college season, he was pegged as a late first/2nd rounder. Not saying he won't be a star, but also saying its a risky pick.

bucfan12
01-16-2011, 10:35 PM
Also, the lack of talent in the ACC is another thing against him. The competition was horrible.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-16-2011, 10:48 PM
The ACC doesn't have the depth of most conferences (or the coaching) but they put out fine NFL talent every year

In fact, I'd probably take a DE prospect from the ACC over a Big 10 DE in a blind bet

Docta
01-16-2011, 10:48 PM
Ingram is not overrated. You really don't have to be special in one area to be a starting RB anymore. If you're "good at everything", and have a good o-line, you can succeed.

the natural
01-16-2011, 11:40 PM
You guys are awfully fussy about the QBs. Remember last year Jake Locker might have gone ahead of (injury risk) Sam Bradford. Now Jake is fourth on most lists. Not many expected Tebow to go in the first round. You have to get the QBs from somewhere, even if it takes a year or two before they contribute. Blaine Gabbert's raw tools are as good as anyone since Matthew Stafford, and he is probably a better athlete than Stafford.

Blaine was rated ahead of Luck at the high school all american and elite camps. Both players attended some of the camps together and I don't think that Andrew was rated higher in any of them. The next year Luck redshirted and Gabbert played in a few games. Year after than Gabbert threw for twice as many yards and TDs (with a higher completion %) than Andrew. It's only this past season that you can make a case that Luck is the better prospect, and that may have as much to do with their respective situations as anything else. In their college careers Luck was sacked just 12 times, while Gabbert was sacked over 40 times. Blaine is taller, faster, and has a stronger arm. He is also a bit younger.

It doesn't add up when you consider one guy the top overall choice with a bullet and the other not worthy of being in the first round. I'm sure the pro scouts have been following these two for 5 years or so and are aware that Gabbert has been the better prospect for the most part.

PossibleCabbage
01-16-2011, 11:40 PM
Ingram is not overrated. You really don't have to be special in one area to be a starting RB anymore. If you're "good at everything", and have a good o-line, you can succeed.

I would never take a "Good at everything, exceptional at nothing" RB in the first round. So if people say Ingram is a first round pick, I would say he is then overrated.

wogitalia
01-16-2011, 11:59 PM
Gabe Carimi is all kinds of win for mine on the underrated side of things.

I think all 4 of the QBs are being overrated but not by stupid amounts given the value of the position I just don't think any are genuine top 10 talents but that probably 2 of them go top 10...

JaxJag_1
01-17-2011, 12:02 AM
Jake Locker and Ryan Mallett define overrated

wordofi
01-17-2011, 12:34 AM
Gabe Carimi is all kinds of win for mine on the underrated side of things.

I think all 4 of the QBs are being overrated but not by stupid amounts given the value of the position I just don't think any are genuine top 10 talents but that probably 2 of them go top 10...

I have to agree with you about Carimi. He's better suited to be a RT, but I think he will be a 10 year starter and make whoever drafts him really happy.

Halsey
01-17-2011, 01:29 AM
I'm also not convinced any QB in this Draft is a sure fire future quality starting QB, but just remember, there are always many doubters every year for just about every QB. Sure there are the rare QBs that most everyone agrees are top prospects, but they are few and far between. The four QBs of the teams left in the playoffs all had many doubters and questions: Roethlisberger played against supposedly inferior competition in college, Rodgers was another product of Jeff Tedford, Sanchez was inexperienced, and Jay Cutler wasn't a winner in college.

TheFinisher
01-17-2011, 09:20 AM
Overrated:
Adrian Clayborn
Blaine Gabbert
Cam Newton
Jonathan Baldwin
Kyle Rudolph
Anthony Costanzo
Demarcus Love
Mike Pouncey
Kris O'Dowd
Allen Bailey
Aldon Smith
Da'Quan Bowers
Akeem Ayers
Doug Hogue

Underrated:
Christian Ponder
Mark Ingram
Delone Carter
DJ Williams
Tyron Smith
Owen Marecic
Jeff Maehl
Greg Salas
Orlando Franklin
Marcus Gilbert
John Moffitt
Christian Ballard
Corey Luiget
Sione Fua
Brooks Reed
Mark Herzlich
Lawrence Wilson
K.J. Wright
Nate Irving
Jimmy Smith
Ras-I Dowling
Quinton Carter
Tyler Sash

JaxJag_1
01-17-2011, 09:25 AM
Adrian Clayborn is severely overrated as well. His best fit is as a 5 tech in a 34 front

PossibleCabbage
01-17-2011, 09:48 AM
Adrian Clayborn is severely overrated as well. His best fit is as a 5 tech in a 34 front


Why does "he's a 5-tech" mean he's overrated? Sometimes 5-techs go in the top 10, if anything their value historically was just depressed by the fact that relatively few teams used to run the 3-4.

He may be overrated, but that has nothing to do with "he's a 5-tech".

Morton
01-17-2011, 10:06 AM
Da'Quan Bowers is definitely overrated. He'll be a solid player, but he's no difference maker. No way I'd take him top 5.

jnew76
01-17-2011, 10:32 AM
I am actually happy that the Missouri guys are being listed as overrated by everyone, simply because I lived through two decades of Missouri players not being rated at all.

phlysac
01-18-2011, 10:23 AM
Alot will change in the next few months but...


Overrated

Offense

QB - Ryan Mallett - Arkansas
RB - Mikel LeShoure - Illinois
FB - Stanley Havili - USC
WR - Jonathan Baldwin - Pitt
WR - Titus Young - Boise State
TE - Kyle Rudolph - Notre Dame
OT - Anthony Castonzo
OG - Mike Pouncey - Florida
C - Stefan Wiesnewski
OG - Rodney Hudson - Florida State
OT - DeMarcus Love - Arkansas

Defense

3-4 Front 7

DE - Adrian Clayborn - Iowa
NT - Phil Taylor - Baylor
DE - J.J. Watt - Wisconsin

OLB - Von Miller - Texas A&M
ILB - Greg Jones - Michigan State
ILB - Casey Matthews - Oregon
OLB - Akeem Ayers - UCLA

CB - Aaron Williams - Texas
CB - Patrick Peterson - LSU
FS - Robert Sands - West Virginia
SS - Ahmad Black - Florida


Underrated

Offense

QB - Ricky Stanzi - Iowa
RB - Dion Lewis - Pitt
FB - Henry Hynoski - Pitt
WR - Austin Pettis - Boise State
WR - Randall Cobb - Kentucky
TE - Virgil Green - Nevada
OT - Gabe Carimi - Wisconsin
OG - Clint Boling - Georgia
C - Jake Kirkpatrick - TCU
OG - Zach Hurd - Connecticut
OT - Derek Hall - Stanford

Defense

3-4 Front 7

DE - Jarvis Jenkins - Clemson
NT - Terrell McClain - South Florida
DE - Pernell McPhee - Mississippi State

OLB - Jabaal Sheard - Pitt
ILB - Mario Harvey - Marshall
ILB - Mason Foster - Washington
OLB - Sam Acho - Texas

CB - Davon House - New Mexico State
CB - Brandon Hogan - West Virginia
FS - Quinton Carter - Oklahoma
SS - Jeron Johnson - Boise State

Sniper
01-18-2011, 10:37 AM
DE - J.J. Watt - Wisconsin

Your argument is invalid.

phlysac
01-18-2011, 10:39 AM
Your argument is invalid.

Last I checked, I didn't make an argument. I guess that means your entire post is thus-defined.

Sniper
01-18-2011, 10:41 AM
Last I checked, I didn't make an argument.

<Insert not sure if serious picture here.> By putting up a big, bolded word that says "Overrated" and putting J.J. Watt under there, you are saying that J.J. Watt is overrated, and that would then be your argument. So why don't you check again? You did make an argument.

phlysac
01-18-2011, 10:49 AM
I made a statement. I'm now making an argument because you've disagreed with my statement.

JJ Watt is my 4th ranked 3-4 DE prospect. I think highly of him. I think he has good-great value in the 2nd round. I just don't think he is a top-20 pick/Top-2 3-4 DE prospect like many do. Thus, I believe he has become overrated.

It was probably an overassumption of yours to believe that Overrated = Isn't good.

AntoinCD
01-18-2011, 10:52 AM
I made a statement. I'm now making an argument because you've disagreed with my statement.

JJ Watt is my 4th ranked 3-4 DE prospect. I think highly of him. I think he has good-great value in the 2nd round. I just don't think he is a top-20 pick/Top-2 3-4 DE prospect like many do. Thus, I believe he has become overrated.

Do you think he is overrated due to people believing he is a top 20 pick or the #2 rated 34 DE? Because I agree with you that he is probably the 4th best 34 DE in the draft but also think he is a top 20 pick.

Dareus and Cam Jordan could go top 10. Cam Heyward would also be ahead IMO and he could go mid teens. I don't see any scenario where the 4th rated 5 technique this year goes in the second round, especially if the Broncos take Fairley to play DE.

phlysac
01-18-2011, 10:55 AM
Do you think he is overrated due to people believing he is a top 20 pick or the #2 rated 34 DE? Because I agree with you that he is probably the 4th best 34 DE in the draft but also think he is a top 20 pick.

Dareus and Cam Jordan could go top 10. Cam Heyward would also be ahead IMO and he could go mid teens. I don't see any scenario where the 4th rated 5 technique this year goes in the second round, especially if the Broncos take Fairley to play DE.

Emphasis on the 2nd ranking of 3-4 DE's. However, I feel that 5-techniques are often over-drafted. They rarely display success early in their career and they play a position that has very little "individual" impact. So, I guess that I could say that nearly all 3-4 DE prospects are overrated if they are receiving high 1st round grades. That is a broad over-generalization on my part and I acknowledge it.

Also, I don't necessarily envision Watt lasting till the 2nd round, but that doesn't mean that I have to believe in the overall "value" of the selection.

AntoinCD
01-18-2011, 11:01 AM
Emphasis on the 2nd ranking of 3-4 DE's. However, I feel that 5-techniques are often over-drafted. They rarely display success early in their career and they play a position that has very little "individual" impact. So, I guess that I could say that nearly all 3-4 DE prospects are overrated if they are receiving high 1st round grades. That is a broad over-generalization on my part and I acknowledge it.

Also, I don't necessarily envision Watt lasting till the 2nd round, but that doesn't mean that I have to believe in the overall "value" of the selection.

I disagree with the premise that because they dont have individual success they are overrated as first rounders. Neither of the Steelers OLBs would be as good without Smith and Keisel playing DE. While it's not a glamorous position in terms of sack numbers it is vital to the success of the defense. I do however think we are seeing teams reach on lesser talents to fill this need. For instance, Richard Seymour was worth his draft slot. Tyson Jackson was not. However the Chiefs reached for need at that point due to the importance of the position.

phlysac
01-18-2011, 11:15 AM
I disagree with the premise that because they dont have individual success they are overrated as first rounders. Neither of the Steelers OLBs would be as good without Smith and Keisel playing DE. While it's not a glamorous position in terms of sack numbers it is vital to the success of the defense. I do however think we are seeing teams reach on lesser talents to fill this need. For instance, Richard Seymour was worth his draft slot. Tyson Jackson was not. However the Chiefs reached for need at that point due to the importance of the position.

I think we actually agree more than disagree. We just (and perhaps by my faulkt in expressing myself) state it differently. You mentioned 2 very strong points in your argument that actually help my argument as well. Teams often "reach" for 3-4 DE's because it is an important position to have stability. Reaching then, by MY argument is overrating. You also mention Smith and Keisel, whom are 4th and 7th rounders, respectively.

Sniper
01-18-2011, 12:32 PM
It was probably an overassumption of yours to believe that Overrated = Isn't good.

Could you point me in the general direction where I "overassumed that overrated=isn't good"? I'd love to see this post. Oh, you can't? So you're making quotes up and attributing them to me? Nice.

J.J. Watt isn't overrated as anything.

Toby Flenderson
01-18-2011, 01:56 PM
If you do not like JJ Watt, the fanboys will disregard your argument. Just a little fyi.

Hurricanes25
01-18-2011, 02:02 PM
If you do not like JJ Watt, the fanboys will disregard your argument. Just a little fyi.

Toby!

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff82/TheGairey/noooo1.gif

phlysac
01-20-2011, 09:00 AM
Could you point me in the general direction where I "overassumed that overrated=isn't good"? I'd love to see this post. Oh, you can't? So you're making quotes up and attributing them to me? Nice.

J.J. Watt isn't overrated as anything.

Feel feel to provide any depth to your opinion other than shooting mine down simply because I feel some are overrating Watt. I just said he's my 4th ranked 3-4 DE for craps sake and you still bash. Give some substance or you just come across as a homer.

Sniper
01-20-2011, 09:30 AM
Give some substance or you just come across as a homer.

Yeah, because I'm a huge, um, Wisconsin fan. Right.

phlysac
01-20-2011, 09:35 AM
Yeah, because I'm a huge, um, Wisconsin fan. Right.

Homer for the player. Again, you've provided ZERO substance to any of your posts. If you flame me for having the opinion that I do, at least have the decency to substantiate the reasoning for YOUR opinion, like I did mine.

Sniper
01-20-2011, 09:50 AM
Homer for the player. Again, you've provided ZERO substance to any of your posts. If you flame me for having the opinion that I do, at least have the decency to substantiate the reasoning for YOUR opinion, like I did mine.

RAWR RANDOM WORDS IN ALL CAPS RAWR

J.J. Watt displayed better consistency, quickness, speed, use of hands and intensity than any 3-4 DE not named Marcell Dareus this year. I think Watt and Jordan from Cal are about equal, but Watt is really consistent and versatile. Watt can move outside in the 4-3, inside on passing downs and could hold up in the 3-4 on every down.

phlysac
01-20-2011, 10:03 AM
RAWR RANDOM WORDS IN ALL CAPS RAWR

Really? Are you an adult? You have an interesting way of showing that you can carry a discussion with someone that disagrees with you without reverting to childish antics.

J.J. Watt displayed better consistency, quickness, speed, use of hands and intensity than any 3-4 DE not named Marcell Dareus this year. I think Watt and Jordan from Cal are about equal, but Watt is really consistent and versatile. Watt can move outside in the 4-3, inside on passing downs and could hold up in the 3-4 on every down.

So, you see him as low as the 3rd rated 3-4 DE. I have him 4th, slightly below that of Cameron Heyward, whom I may "overrate" to some. I have been reading alot of opinions similar to yours (Watt is the 2nd best 3-4 DE) and because of that I posted that I believe he is overrated. Our opinions actually don't differ that greatly, yet you felt the need to attack my stance. Your reaction is one of the reasons that I feel the player to be overrated. It would've been just as easy to say that you disagree and make the point that you did in your most recent post. Instead, you mocked three of my posts before doing so.

In what I hope is the conclusion of our little tift, I actually agree with and appreciate your short write-up of Watt. The only place we differ is that I don't believe that Watt is so "consistent" in your listed positive attributes to put him ahead of Jordan and Heyward, in my opinion.

San Diego Chicken
01-24-2011, 03:09 PM
I don't see it with J.J. Watt either. Seems like a good college player that doesn't translate well, big but not overly explosive. To me he'd be just another guy at 3-4 DE, and not worth selecting over Heyward or Jordan.

As far as underrated I'll stick with the Wisconsin program and say Gabe Carimi. I'd feel pretty good if I needed a LT in round one and he was on the board. He was always impressive to me and just measured in with long arms at the senior bowl weigh-ins (35+ inches). I've heard the talk of him moving to RT - the same things were said about Jake Long at one point. Not buying it, he'll be a very good LT in the NFL, I firmly believe.