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SchizophrenicBatman
01-12-2011, 02:16 PM
Also includes the ever-present "anonymous scout" http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/01/12/2011-nfl-draft/index.html

Doesn't sound like he's had a lot of time to look at game tape yet (expected with all his announcing work) but he's another guy who likes Gabbert. Also really likes Dalton. Other than that, he doesn't seem to put many strong opinions out there.

The scout says some interesting things: Comparing Locker to Alex Smith, invoking JaMarcus' name with Newton, etc

gpngc
01-12-2011, 02:26 PM
Pretty much exactly where I am with everything. Some good points. Thanks for posting.

-Weak class overall.
-Top picks more likely to be traded.
-QBs are a crazy, crazy, discussion with a million different opinions for each guy.
-Dalton's very good.
-Fairley's very good.

SeanTaylorRIP
01-12-2011, 02:42 PM
I know the character and experience issues but has Cam ever had issues about work ethic and motivation? As far as I can see he is a fierce competitor. He could be a bust but I don't know why Jamarcus's recent bust factor would have any weight on Cam. Jamarcus was a failure more because of being lazy and out of shape than anything else. I don't think Cam shares any of those traits. If anything if you want to compare Cam to a bust QB it would be Alex Smith because they both came from Spread's, had limited experience, and were more tools than experience at that point.

I agree with Mayock on Dalton being underrated although he shouldn't go any time before the first 90 or so picks. Also another guy who loves Gabbert and probably projects him top 10, but honestly I don't see it. He might be tall like Big Ben and Freeman but his tools are no where close. I still view him as an early 2nd round prospect but all signs point to him being the #1 QB taken. I agree with Mayock that I'd grade Fairley better than McCoy but behind Suh.

DiG
01-12-2011, 02:53 PM
I agree with Mayock on Dalton being underrated although he shouldn't go any time before the first 90 or so picks. Also another guy who loves Gabbert and probably projects him top 10, but honestly I don't see it. He might be tall like Big Ben and Freeman but his tools are no where close. I still view him as an early 2nd round prospect but all signs point to him being the #1 QB taken.

I can see the comparison to Freeman more than Big Ben. Big Ben was a much much more refined passer coming out of school. Freeman had some accuracy concerns his last year in school which is what dropped him really into the mid first range.

JaxJag_1
01-12-2011, 02:55 PM
I'll say it again, Andy Dalton - the best QB in this class.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-12-2011, 02:58 PM
From what I've watched of Gabbert his arm very much compares favorably to Freeman/Ben. The way he holds the ball and extends plays is reminiscent of Roethlisberger too. But, he's very scatterbrained under pressure. I really see why guys like him and I think too many people are dismissing him just because his numbers don't look good playing in the spread (it really is a poor fit for his talents) but I just have a hard time getting on the bandwagon of a QB who doesn't have good pocket instincts

bucfan12
01-12-2011, 03:01 PM
I can see the comparison to Freeman more than Big Ben. Big Ben was a much much more refined passer coming out of school. Freeman had some accuracy concerns his last year in school which is what dropped him really into the mid first range.

Freeman didn't have accuracy issues at K-State. He had no WRs who dropped a lot of passes.

DiG
01-12-2011, 03:10 PM
Freeman didn't have accuracy issues at K-State. He had no WRs who dropped a lot of passes.

dude dont get all touchy. i am a big freeman fan now but he definitely had accuracy questions coming out.

A few draft profiles of Freeman:

"Weaknesses: Accuracy was abysmal in junior year ... Locks on to receivers and shows below-average field vision ... Wildly inconsistent; runs hot and cold"

"Weaknesses: Freeman is going to need some time to work on his game. He is raw as a passer, and gets by on his natural gifts right now. His accuracy and mechanics are erratic, and he is too confident in his arm. He thinks he can fit the ball into any spot, and he needs to make better decisions on the field."

"Negatives: Inconsistent accuracy from the pocket and throwing on the run. Needs to anticipate down field throws better, sometimes getting the ball to his receiver a second early or late. Prone to turnovers, makes poor decisions trying to make plays that aren't there."

TACKLE
01-12-2011, 03:13 PM
I know the character and experience issues but has Cam ever had issues about work ethic and motivation? As far as I can see he is a fierce competitor. He could be a bust but I don't know why Jamarcus's recent bust factor would have any weight on Cam. Jamarcus was a failure more because of being lazy and out of shape than anything else. I don't think Cam shares any of those traits. If anything if you want to compare Cam to a bust QB it would be Alex Smith because they both came from Spread's, had limited experience, and were more tools than experience at that point.

I found this was the case with Dez Bryant last year. As soon as people hear "character concerns" they automatically clump together all character issues on top of a guy. Many people were questioning Dez's work ethic and desire when there was no indication that he was lacking either. Like Dez, Cam's character has been called into question because an isolated incident. From what I've read, he studies other top QB's (like Brady, Manning and even Luck), he spends a lot of time in the film room with Gus Malzhan and is one of Auburn's most impressive players in the weight room. Like you mentioned, he is a fierce competitor and we can see his passion for the game every Saturday afternoon. I'm not around the Auburn football team so I can't say this for sure, but there's no indication that his work ethic or motivation is an issue at all.

wonderbredd24
01-12-2011, 03:21 PM
I found this was the case with Dez Bryant last year. As soon as people hear "character concerns" they automatically clump together all character issues on top of a guy. Many people were questioning Dez's work ethic and desire when there was no indication that he was lacking either. Like Dez, Cam's character has been called into question because an isolated incident. From what I've read, he studies other top QB's (like Brady, Manning and even Luck), he spends a lot of time in the film room with Gus Malzhan and is one of Auburn's most impressive players in the weight room. Like you mentioned, he is a fierce competitor and we can see his passion for the game every Saturday afternoon. I'm not around the Auburn football team so I can't say this for sure, but there's no indication that his work ethic or motivation is an issue at all.
Dez Bryant's questions relating to his work ethic arose when he did stuff like forgetting his cleats to the most important of his football life and it was not an unfair question to ask.

I also do not understand where people believe this is a weak class. There are some weak positions like in any class, but the draft has a ton to offer and will have good talent available in all seven rounds.

Also, the idea that Cam's character is over one isolated incident is laughable. There are three different 'incidents' and one took place three different times. If you choose to ignore them, that is up to you, but they are there.

bucfan12
01-12-2011, 03:25 PM
dude dont get all touchy. i am a big freeman fan now but he definitely had accuracy questions coming out.

A few draft profiles of Freeman:

"Weaknesses: Accuracy was abysmal in junior year ... Locks on to receivers and shows below-average field vision ... Wildly inconsistent; runs hot and cold"

"Weaknesses: Freeman is going to need some time to work on his game. He is raw as a passer, and gets by on his natural gifts right now. His accuracy and mechanics are erratic, and he is too confident in his arm. He thinks he can fit the ball into any spot, and he needs to make better decisions on the field."

"Negatives: Inconsistent accuracy from the pocket and throwing on the run. Needs to anticipate down field throws better, sometimes getting the ball to his receiver a second early or late. Prone to turnovers, makes poor decisions trying to make plays that aren't there."

Haha I didn't mean to be ignorant or anything but I watched him a lot actually during his 2008 season at K-State. WRs dropped lots of catchable balls and I think most scouts just looked at the stats not the film. I remember one scouting report said if he had Sanchez's talent at USC, he would have been the top pick in the draft.

Not to get off subject, but I am glad scouts didn't like him, besides Tampa.

Anyways, I do agree with Mayock. It might be risky to take a QB early, but reports on Gabbert is that he also didn't have much offensive talent to work with this season, similar to Freeman in his Jr Year at K-State. At first, I didn't like him, but he's starting to grow on me as I am reading he put the Missouri offense on his back the whole season. I think he might be the only QB worth a 1st round grade. Apparently, the Advisory Board gave him a Mid 1st round grade, which means a QB needy team will take him in the top 7.

JRTPlaya21
01-12-2011, 03:35 PM
Dez Bryant's questions relating to his work ethic arose when he did stuff like forgetting his cleats to the most important of his football life and it was not an unfair question to ask.

I also do not understand where people believe this is a weak class. There are some weak positions like in any class, but the draft has a ton to offer and will have good talent available in all seven rounds.

Also, the idea that Cam's character is over one isolated incident is laughable. There are three different 'incidents' and one took place three different times. If you choose to ignore them, that is up to you, but they are there.

The whole "weak" class argument seems directly stemmed to Luck staying in school. I for one am quite pumped up for this draft and 2012 is in the back of my mind.

49erNation85
01-12-2011, 04:04 PM
I still don't see the love for Gabbert .

gpngc
01-12-2011, 04:09 PM
The whole "weak" class argument seems directly stemmed to Luck staying in school. I for one am quite pumped up for this draft and 2012 is in the back of my mind.

Dearth of quality safeties, ILBs.

No real franchise LT prospects.

Shallow TE class.

Pass rusher isn't that deep.

Weak senior class overall (especially at RB and WR).

And two of the best underclassmen prospects staying (Luck, Blackmon) doesn't help.

All QBs have at least one GLARING flaws.

ThePudge
01-12-2011, 04:12 PM
I still don't see the love for Gabbert .

He's big, he's mobile, he put up numbers, and he's got a big arm. Those are the nice things I can say about him and those reasons will likely take him off the board in the First Round. I can't say that I see anything special, either, however. In a weak QB class with no clear-cut #1 there are going to be people that like him most.

49erNation85
01-12-2011, 04:17 PM
Locker is still way more mobile IMO and hes got a good body built too.Will put up probably the same if not better numbers once he is protected by a good o line and WR who can catch the ball and run routes .

JRTPlaya21
01-12-2011, 04:18 PM
Dearth of quality safeties, ILBs.

No real franchise LT prospects.

Shallow TE class.

Pass rusher isn't that deep.

Weak senior class overall (especially at RB and WR).

And two of the best underclassmen prospects staying (Luck, Blackmon) doesn't help.

All QBs have at least one GLARING flaws.

And yet I'm still more excited about it then the 2005 draft class.

ViperVisor
01-12-2011, 04:33 PM
ThePudge is right on the reason for Gabbert hype.
I have only looked at the stats and watched a game on youtube. I saw a prototype size QB with a nice fastball that could move. You are half-way to the 1st round right there.

The thoughts on Locker are super similar to what I said before.

"hesitant"
"c0ck it one time, and then re-c0ck it"

His athletic ability allows for Madden like darts on the move. But the true nuggets of gold you want are the stand tall and throw from the pocket. He has some of this from what I have browsed. His Long throws here are typically nice. What I don't like is the lack of in the pocket + underneath through a window passes. He tends to hesitate or even double clutch and then puts mustard on the throw.

brasho
01-12-2011, 04:34 PM
He's big, he's mobile, he put up numbers, and he's got a big arm. Those are the nice things I can say about him and those reasons will likely take him off the board in the First Round. I can't say that I see anything special, either, however. In a weak QB class with no clear-cut #1 there are going to be people that like him most.

I see this, even without Luck, a far better QB class than in most recent years. While there is no clear cut #1 guy, there are plenty of extremely talented but slightly flawed guys that a few teams will absolutely love and we'll likely see 4 guys come off the board in round 1.

As for OTs, this is not a very top heavy class, but DEs, this is the deepest group I've seen in years. It looks like 8 guys might be going in round 1, and all 8 are 1st rounders in most years so I'm not sure how this is a weak group.

TACKLE
01-12-2011, 04:46 PM
Dez Bryant's questions relating to his work ethic arose when he did stuff like forgetting his cleats to the most important of his football life and it was not an unfair question to ask.

Also, the idea that Cam's character is over one isolated incident is laughable. There are three different 'incidents' and one took place three different times. If you choose to ignore them, that is up to you, but they are there.

C'mon man. You really thought that Dez forgetting one of his pairs of cleats was a sign that he wasn't going to have the work ethic to make it in the NFL. Really?

I'm not ignoring them. When I say isolated, I'm referring to isolated from football. People can try to draw connections to how they are related to football and how they will effect him on the field but personally I just don't see it. Though if you felt that Dez forgetting his cleats should of set off alarm bells about his lack of work ethic, I can see how you would feel Cam has major character issues.

bucfan12
01-12-2011, 04:48 PM
I think people are not going to know how to judge this draft since 2010 was so rich in talent at almost every position.

Honestly, I don't agree with Brasho with the account that this is not one of the best qb classes. I think Gabbert will be the only legit guy that deserves to go in round 1. I don't like Mallett or Locker.

Guys like Pat Devlin, Koepernick and Dalton are very underrated because of where they played there college ball at. Remember, Pat Devlin was a top 3-5 Div. 1 A QB recruit. He just made the wrong decision to go to Penn State, which plays the older guy at QB over better talent. I think he could be the steal of the draft in a few years.

RB class is deep, however I don't see anyone, except Ingram going in round 1. I think in the 2nd round you will see a bunch start coming off the board, and possibly as many as 8 Rbs selected between rounds 2 and 4, actually maybe more.

WR is very deep and strong and 3 or 4 guys could go in round 1. Green, Jones, and Baldwin first come to mind. Floyd and Blackmon are staying, so atleast 3 will be there in round 1. O-Line isn't strong up front and there really isn't many elite LT prospects available, but i am sure a team will reach. Interior O-line is a lot stronger than people think.

D-line, especially DE is stacked. Guys like Adrian Clayborne, Daquan Bowers, Aldon Smith, Ryan Kerrigan, Robert Quinn, and Cameron Jordan will go in the 1st round. Nick Fairly might be the top overall pick, contending with Bowers.

LB is weak in my opinion. Akeem Ayers, Bruce Carter, Greg Jones, Martez Wilson, and Quan Sturdavent are really the only guys I see being starters at the next level, possibly Nate Irving or Kelvin Sheppard. Mark Herzlich I think can be a steal and possibly the best one in the class, as long as he makes it back to full strength. In an interview at the college football awards, he said he started to regain his 2008 form of level towards the end of the season, so I hope this guy can make it back and dominate.

holt_bruce81
01-12-2011, 04:56 PM
It's crazy, last year around this time I was saying Gabbert would be a top 20 pick in next years draft. And now that next years draft is here I'm saying he's not worth it and Everyone else is saying he is, he probably will be a top 10 pick, maybe even a top 5.

JRTPlaya21
01-12-2011, 04:56 PM
Some years we get spoiled with top flight left tackles so most teams would most likely have to reach for somebody this year. Last year Spiller went too high & I never really loved Mathews so I'm liking this years depth at running back. The drafts are becoming more underclass driven and this crop is about who I expected would be here. Last years top two tight ends were both coming off of injuries so this is about the same. Plus 2010 was just the battle of who would come in third place behind Berry & Thomas. So let's just see what unfolds before we turn our eyes to 2012 so quickly.

metafour
01-12-2011, 04:59 PM
The comment about Gabbert doing it all "by himself" is pure horse-sh*t. Chase freaking Daniel almost won a Heisman at Missouri just a few seasons ago. Missouri's offense is very QB friendly and that entire conference is full off high-powered spread offenses that has made numerous QBs look "great".

He may have all the physical tools, but to say he's facing adversity or something at Missouri is pure ridiculous.

holt_bruce81
01-12-2011, 05:05 PM
The comment about Gabbert doing it all "by himself" is pure horse-sh*t. Chase freaking Daniel almost won a Heisman at Missouri just a few seasons ago. Missouri's offense is very QB friendly and that entire conference is full off high-powered spread offenses that has made numerous QBs look "great".

He may have all the physical tools, but to say he's facing adversity or something at Missouri is pure ridiculous.

Blaine Gabbert had talent on offense but no where near the kind of Talent that Daniel had to throw to.......Jeremy Maclin, Will Franklin, Danario Alexander, an actual Running game with Derrick Washington, two great college tight ends.

brasho
01-12-2011, 05:06 PM
What really showed Russell's lack of work ethic was the fact that he showed up to the biggest job interview of his life (the combine) so fat that he looked like a reject offensive guard from the USFL (thanks Buddy). Seriously, the first chance to land a great impression and he was disgustingly fat... then to consider giving a fat loafer like him millions guaranteed, that was a recipe for disaster.

On the Bucs message board immediately after I saw Russell at the the combine, I declared that JaMarcus Russell would eat his way out of the league in 5 years. So I was a year off, sue me, but still the signs were on the wall and looming large.

There were other issues with Russell, like Newton he was a one year starter, unlike Newton, he was a bit player on a great team. He accounted for X% of the team's offense that would have been very good without him, he was slightly more than a caretaker in school... Newton, on the other hand, was the Tigers' offense. Everything they did was because of him, he WAS the playmaker on that team... his heart and passion for the game could never be questioned as he led that team both statistically and emotionally. Russell was never a leader, Jacob Hester was more of a leader than he was and he was a slightly above average HB.

bucfan12
01-12-2011, 05:20 PM
Blaine Gabbert had talent on offense but no where near the kind of Talent that Daniel had to throw to.......Jeremy Maclin, Will Franklin, Danario Alexander, an actual Running game with Derrick Washington, two great college tight ends.

Agreed. Maclin was a 1st round pick and Coffman was solid. Alexander played pretty well in limited time for St. Louis and could have been a higher draft pick if it weren't for his knee injuries. Daniel had more to work with than Gabbert.

lowlife
01-12-2011, 06:51 PM
The Locker-Smith comparison makes so much sense, I feel slightly ******** for not having thought of it.

brasho
01-12-2011, 07:01 PM
The Locker-Smith comparison makes so much sense, I feel slightly ******** for not having thought of it.

Yeah, the creepy thing about it too, is that Locker was considered a possible #1 overall pick after a huge junior season despite having mixed results his previous two seasons under a different offense and also playing baseball... like Akili Smith. Of course Smith did come out after his junior season, when his stock was highest, probably around the same time Locker should've come out.

And on top of all that, they both did much better after their OCs simplified their offenses so they were only having to read half of the field with rollouts and bootlegs.. which is pretty much all we saw out of Locker this past season.

Black Bolt
01-12-2011, 07:37 PM
dude dont get all touchy. i am a big freeman fan now but he definitely had accuracy questions coming out.

A few draft profiles of Freeman:

"Weaknesses: Accuracy was abysmal in junior year ... Locks on to receivers and shows below-average field vision ... Wildly inconsistent; runs hot and cold"

"Weaknesses: Freeman is going to need some time to work on his game. He is raw as a passer, and gets by on his natural gifts right now. His accuracy and mechanics are erratic, and he is too confident in his arm. He thinks he can fit the ball into any spot, and he needs to make better decisions on the field."

"Negatives: Inconsistent accuracy from the pocket and throwing on the run. Needs to anticipate down field throws better, sometimes getting the ball to his receiver a second early or late. Prone to turnovers, makes poor decisions trying to make plays that aren't there."

Um, how exactly did he get touchy unless you think daring to disagree with you qualifies as touchy?

jtice2003
01-12-2011, 07:37 PM
same argument can be made about cam newton as a vince young clone.

I see blaine gabbert as a carson palmer type, good mechanics but, does he have "it"?

Black Bolt
01-12-2011, 07:41 PM
The whole "weak" class argument seems directly stemmed to Luck staying in school. I for one am quite pumped up for this draft and 2012 is in the back of my mind.

It's a weak class overall, no question. WR is about a round deep. No blue chip OTs. WEAK S class. RB is so so. QBs are all flawed.

Black Bolt
01-12-2011, 07:44 PM
I think people are not going to know how to judge this draft since 2010 was so rich in talent at almost every position.

Honestly, I don't agree with Brasho with the account that this is not one of the best qb classes. I think Gabbert will be the only legit guy that deserves to go in round 1. I don't like Mallett or Locker.

Guys like Pat Devlin, Koepernick and Dalton are very underrated because of where they played there college ball at. Remember, Pat Devlin was a top 3-5 Div. 1 A QB recruit. He just made the wrong decision to go to Penn State, which plays the older guy at QB over better talent. I think he could be the steal of the draft in a few years.

RB class is deep, however I don't see anyone, except Ingram going in round 1. I think in the 2nd round you will see a bunch start coming off the board, and possibly as many as 8 Rbs selected between rounds 2 and 4, actually maybe more.

WR is very deep and strong and 3 or 4 guys could go in round 1. Green, Jones, and Baldwin first come to mind. Floyd and Blackmon are staying, so atleast 3 will be there in round 1. O-Line isn't strong up front and there really isn't many elite LT prospects available, but i am sure a team will reach. Interior O-line is a lot stronger than people think.

D-line, especially DE is stacked. Guys like Adrian Clayborne, Daquan Bowers, Aldon Smith, Ryan Kerrigan, Robert Quinn, and Cameron Jordan will go in the 1st round. Nick Fairly might be the top overall pick, contending with Bowers.

LB is weak in my opinion. Akeem Ayers, Bruce Carter, Greg Jones, Martez Wilson, and Quan Sturdavent are really the only guys I see being starters at the next level, possibly Nate Irving or Kelvin Sheppard. Mark Herzlich I think can be a steal and possibly the best one in the class, as long as he makes it back to full strength. In an interview at the college football awards, he said he started to regain his 2008 form of level towards the end of the season, so I hope this guy can make it back and dominate.

How in the hell can you call this WR class "deep?" Guys like Harvin and Nicks were second rounders two years ago? This WR class is really only a round, round and a half deep in terms of quality.

FUNBUNCHER
01-12-2011, 11:02 PM
Yeah, the creepy thing about it too, is that Locker was considered a possible #1 overall pick after a huge junior season despite having mixed results his previous two seasons under a different offense and also playing baseball... like Akili Smith. Of course Smith did come out after his junior season, when his stock was highest, probably around the same time Locker should've come out.

And on top of all that, they both did much better after their OCs simplified their offenses so they were only having to read half of the field with rollouts and bootlegs.. which is pretty much all we saw out of Locker this past season.


I see Locker as light years ahead of Alex Smith when he came out because of the fact that Jake was coached by Sarkisian in a pro set for two years.

His transition to reading and anticipating WR routes out of a pro style offense will make the gap Locker has to bridge less of a challenge than the one Smith had to navigate.

Besides, I feel like Locker is the more competitive of the two, the mentally tougher player because he's had to deal with so much adversity in his college career.
IMO Locker knows how to grind it out and keep at it when things aren't going his way early.

JPP90
01-12-2011, 11:05 PM
Read this earlier and thought it was a fair assessment on Locker. Mayock usually puts thought into things rather than flip-flopping and knee-jerking like everyone else and that comes through in his honesty about underclassmen where he always says "haven't had time to study em yet". He points out Locker has all the tools to be a top QB and doesn't see how a guy considered the #1 overall pick last year is suddenly a 2nd round guy. Really never made sense anyway. Like he says, Senior Bowl is going to be huge for him and people should reserve judgement on him until that time. Fair assessment by the scout too...he has the potential to be Alex Smith but he has the potential to be Josh Freeman too. I say someone actually made sense analyzing a controversial prospect...leave it to Mayock.

DMWSackMachine
01-12-2011, 11:11 PM
Um...not sure if you're saying they were *rated* as second rounders, but both Harvin and Nicks went in the first round.


Also, I think its fairly rare to see the type of all around talent at the WR position that we have this year. I think Julio is being underrated severely and will be as good or better than AJ, who is unbelievable in his own right. I like this group a lot, even with Blackmon staying.

This draft reminds me a bit of the 2005 draft in that there were no skill-positional "it" guys, right down to the similarity with the consensus #1 pick going back to college (Leinart versus Lock). That year you had 3 RBs who I thought, even at the time, were no more than mid-late first rounders that got pushed up the board due to the lack of top shelf talent at the glamor positions. Braylon, imo, was the only legit top 5 talent who actually went in the top 5 that year. Then there was a strong group of DBs in Rolle, Pacman and Carlos Rodger. Rolle was legit and has finally found his niche at S in NY, he's been inconsistent but very good at times. Pacman was an elite talent....*shrug* and Rodgers was more of a late 1st guy that the Redskins chose to reach on. Then you had Mike Williams with his issues who actually fell down the board.

So the lack of elite talent at the top of the draft pushed some guys up that didn't deserve to be there. However, starting at pick 11 you saw the real talent come off the board. DeMarcus Ware, Merriman, Jamal Brown, Thomas Davis, Derrick Johnson....those guys should have been top 10 picks.

I think the board this year is a by product of the wisdom learned that year. We have a ton of non-glamor guys that are going to go in the top 10 this year because they deserve it. This is a DL draft first and foremost. Literally any type of guy you want is here, with the possible exception of the big 3-4 2 gapping NTs like Raji, Wilfork, Hampton (I think Dareus might have a chance there, thought no one seems to agree with me). Throw in two legit elite DB prospects, two elite WR prospects and an assortment of really good QBs and you have a draft that might not have the star factor, but will produce some very, very good players.

JPP90
01-12-2011, 11:12 PM
I see Locker as light years ahead of Alex Smith when he came out because of the fact that Jake was coached by Sarkisian in a pro set for two years.

His transition to reading and anticipating WR routes out of a pro style offense will make the gap Locker has to bridge less of a challenge than the one Smith had to navigate.

Besides, I feel like Locker is the more competitive of the two, the mentally tougher player because he's had to deal with so much adversity in his college career.
IMO Locker knows how to grind it out and keep at it when things aren't going his way early.

For whatever its worth Locker and Smith are completely different personalities. Smith was never a leader of men that guys look up to...Locker is that guy. You have to respect a guy that gets his head knocked off his shoulders, misses 1 play and comes back to the game. That is the kind of stuff professionals respond to. That's Big Ben stuff there.

RealityCheck
01-12-2011, 11:20 PM
For whatever its worth Locker and Smith are completely different personalities. Smith was never a leader of men that guys look up to...Locker is that guy. You have to respect a guy that gets his head knocked off his shoulders, misses 1 play and comes back to the game. That is the kind of stuff professionals respond to. That's Big Ben stuff there.
Locker is a rapist?

Wrathman
01-13-2011, 02:19 AM
I think most scouts just looked at the stats not the film.

If you are talking "internet scouts", I can see that to some degree. If you are talking NFL scouts who are trying to decide if Freeman might be their franchise quarterback...ummm, no. Let's not go overboard with the hyperbole.

AntoinCD
01-13-2011, 04:13 AM
Some years we get spoiled with top flight left tackles so most teams would most likely have to reach for somebody this year. Last year Spiller went too high & I never really loved Mathews so I'm liking this years depth at running back. The drafts are becoming more underclass driven and this crop is about who I expected would be here. Last years top two tight ends were both coming off of injuries so this is about the same. Plus 2010 was just the battle of who would come in third place behind Berry & Thomas. So let's just see what unfolds before we turn our eyes to 2012 so quickly.

I think it always goes in cycles for what positions are very strong in each class, particularly at the top end. Last year we were ridiculously spoiled with DTs, S and in hindsight TE.

This year it seems very strong at WR, CB and 34 defensive linemen.

Two years ago there was an extremely strong offensuve tackle class.

It all depends and some years are stonger than others in certain positions.

Saints-Tigers
01-13-2011, 05:11 AM
For whatever its worth Locker and Smith are completely different personalities. Smith was never a leader of men that guys look up to...Locker is that guy. You have to respect a guy that gets his head knocked off his shoulders, misses 1 play and comes back to the game. That is the kind of stuff professionals respond to. That's Big Ben stuff there.

People really do underestimate how much of a ***** Alex Smith is.

bucfan12
01-13-2011, 11:48 AM
I still don't get the hate for Alex Smith. Ever since he was drafted, his coaching staff at San Fransisco was chaos. He went through what, like 5 different OC's in his 1st five years. He was absolutely amazing when Turner was there for 1 year, then regressed. I think if he lands with the right coaching staff and right team, he will be very good. And to say he's not a leader? I remember that Philly/San Fran game when David Carr was warming up, the whole team basically had Alex Smiths back, so leadership isn't an issue.

will99890
01-13-2011, 12:23 PM
As a Niner fan , I feel obligated to say that Alex Smith may be the only #1 overall pick who had a coaching staff THAT TRIED TO MAKE HIM A SCAPEGOAT TO SAVE THEIR OWN JOBS!

He may be a wimp, but having your head coach do some of the things that Nolan did will kill anyone's confidence. Publicly calling you weak, starting you for the majority of a year that should have been spent on IR, and refusing to allow surgery for a fairly major shoulder injury. Not to mention the "weapons" he had to work with (Darrell "drops" Jackson, Arnaz Battle, Brandon Lloyd, Ashley Lelie, and a very raw Vernon Davis.)

My opinion of Locker is that he is a better passer, tougher, more athletic, and way more of a leader coming out than Alex Smith. Arm strength is basically a push (Smith has shown a good arm since rehabbing his shoulder IMO.) I may be in the minority, but I think Locker ends up being widely accepted as a top 5 or 10 value QB.

FUNBUNCHER
01-13-2011, 12:45 PM
It's not that I dislike Alex Smith, but with all the crap he's been through in SF, I think his moxie and confidence are shot. The 49ers cut off his balls IMO and at this point I don't see them growing back any time soon.

will99890
01-13-2011, 12:48 PM
It's not that I dislike Alex Smith, but with all the crap he's been through in SF, I think his moxie and confidence are shot. The 49ers cut off his balls IMO and at this point I don't see them growing back any time soon.

Exactly my point. Talent was there, the right team situation wasn't.

eazyb81
01-13-2011, 01:19 PM
The comment about Gabbert doing it all "by himself" is pure horse-sh*t. Chase freaking Daniel almost won a Heisman at Missouri just a few seasons ago. Missouri's offense is very QB friendly and that entire conference is full off high-powered spread offenses that has made numerous QBs look "great".

He may have all the physical tools, but to say he's facing adversity or something at Missouri is pure ridiculous.

Chase Daniel was built to run Mizzou's spread; he had been running the system at Southlake Carroll since he was a high school freshman, so there was really no learning curve at all for him. He excels at short/mid-range accuracy, but does not have a fraction of the tools that Gabbert has.

FUNBUNCHER
01-13-2011, 01:30 PM
Chase Daniel has a strong arm, and he's a decent athlete for someone who looks like a kegger type of guy on the weekends.

IMO the only thing Gabbert has over Daniel is height and maybe a little bit stronger arm.

SenorGato
01-13-2011, 01:42 PM
Jake Locker = Underrated.

I like Dalton...I was hoping he'd get 15 minutes too. Here they are.

I like Gabbert...not sure the hype he's getting now is warranted though...seems like he's the guy people are settling for because there's no Luck in this draft....

PrimetimeTheDon
01-13-2011, 02:28 PM
Freeman didn't have accuracy issues at K-State. He had no WRs who dropped a lot of passes.

Yes he did. I specifically remember scouting him and him straight up whiffing on some throws. Ones that weren't close. Then of course he'd turn around and throw a beauty. But the inconsistent accuracy of Freeman at KState is a very real thing.

yourfavestoner
01-13-2011, 02:29 PM
I don't think Alex Smith ever had talent and deserved to be the first overall pick about as much as Tim Couch did.

CameronCropper
01-13-2011, 02:34 PM
Yes he did. I specifically remember scouting him and him straight up whiffing on some throws. Ones that weren't close. Then of course he'd turn around and throw a beauty. But the inconsistent accuracy of Freeman at KState is a very real thing.

Freeman had a tendency as you said to make the most difficult of throws look easy and often missed on some easy plays when he was quarterbacking Kansas State.

No doubt he's come on leaps and bounds since then and the talent he had at K-State wasn't great but let's not start tearing up the history books on his behalf.

Saints-Tigers
01-13-2011, 02:44 PM
I don't think Alex Smith ever had talent and deserved to be the first overall pick about as much as Tim Couch did.

Seriously, I don't get what people see.

He doesn't have a good arm, he's got inconsistent accuracy, and he's not a smart football player, I know he graduated in 2.5 years, blah blah blah, but he can't operate a simple offense, much less a complex NFL offense.

He's been with 6 different OCs, and has never shown anything with any of them. Shaun Hill was twice as good. Give up on the guy.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-13-2011, 03:44 PM
I don't think Alex Smith ever had talent and deserved to be the first overall pick about as much as Tim Couch did.

THANK YOU

I am so sick of people making excuses for bust QBs

Alex Smith. David Carr. Jimmy Clausen.

They all just sucked. It had nothing to do with the environment. Since Freeman is being talked about in this thread, look at what he's had to deal with in TB. An awful team, a HC that was laughed at in his first season and a ton of young WRs. And he struggled in college and had people wondering if he had a learning disability. Yet, he's awesome. The cream rises to the top.

yourfavestoner
01-13-2011, 04:22 PM
THANK YOU

I am so sick of people making excuses for bust QBs

Alex Smith. David Carr. Jimmy Clausen.

They all just sucked. It had nothing to do with the environment. Since Freeman is being talked about in this thread, look at what he's had to deal with in TB. An awful team, a HC that was laughed at in his first season and a ton of young WRs. And he struggled in college and had people wondering if he had a learning disability. Yet, he's awesome. The cream rises to the top.

Don't forget about Wisenhunt being a big meanie and never giving Matt Leinart his fair shot.

FUNBUNCHER
01-13-2011, 08:44 PM
Well, I'm still blaming Wisenhunt for Leinart not being in the pro bowl already!!

Big Ben hated him, and IMO was part of the reason why he's no longer in Pittsburgh.

Borat
01-13-2011, 10:16 PM
Six years later Alex Smith still has horrible footwork. That was his most glaring problem. It wasn't the OCs or the weapons or whatever Alexcuses people come up with. It was his failure to recognize and resolve his awful footwork which subsequently kept him from improving his horrible accuracy issues.

gpngc
01-13-2011, 11:22 PM
Most of the posters on the website I used to roam back in 2005 were flabbergasted when Smith somehow leaped up in front of Rodgers in 2005. He went from an expected 2nd-3rd round pick to a guy that could sneak into the first to the Browns pick at #3 to all of the sudden #1 overall over the clearly superior Aaron Rodgers. It made no sense then.

Saints-Tigers
01-13-2011, 11:30 PM
I didn't think Rodgers was worthy of a #1 pick at the time, other than being the best QB of the class, but I thought Alex Smith was easily a second or third round caliber prospect, with Rodgers being a top 15-20 sort of guy, and a nice player if you had some time to develop him.

I clearly underestimated Rodgers and overestimated how good Smith would be.

eazyb81
01-14-2011, 07:12 AM
Most of the posters on the website I used to roam back in 2005 were flabbergasted when Smith somehow leaped up in front of Rodgers in 2005. He went from an expected 2nd-3rd round pick to a guy that could sneak into the first to the Browns pick at #3 to all of the sudden #1 overall over the clearly superior Aaron Rodgers. It made no sense then.

Actually there was a lot of concern about Rodgers on here at the time, due primarily to the Tedford offense that was churning out QB busts like none other. Harrington, Boller, Carr, and Akili Smith were all notable busts that learned the game under Tedford's tutelage, and many analysts began to assume that his QBs were just system guys.

will99890
01-14-2011, 12:01 PM
Don't forget that a large percentage of Rodgers' college attempts were check downs and shallow crossing routes. That combined with the Tedford association lower the opinions of some people/teams on him.

ViperVisor
01-14-2011, 12:44 PM
Also a 49ers fan so I remember some things still.

Roodgers was thought of as more needing of a timing based WCO system. His accuracy down-field was a question. Some lingering health issues. The most parroted thing was height.

brasho
01-14-2011, 12:59 PM
I see Locker as light years ahead of Alex Smith when he came out because of the fact that Jake was coached by Sarkisian in a pro set for two years.

His transition to reading and anticipating WR routes out of a pro style offense will make the gap Locker has to bridge less of a challenge than the one Smith had to navigate.

Besides, I feel like Locker is the more competitive of the two, the mentally tougher player because he's had to deal with so much adversity in his college career.
IMO Locker knows how to grind it out and keep at it when things aren't going his way early.

Uhhhhh, where do I start, I think there are few if any qualities that Alex Smith and Jake Locker share.... I said AKILI Smith.... big difference.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-14-2011, 01:04 PM
I didn't think Rodgers was worthy of a #1 pick at the time, other than being the best QB of the class, but I thought Alex Smith was easily a second or third round caliber prospect, with Rodgers being a top 15-20 sort of guy, and a nice player if you had some time to develop him.

I clearly underestimated Rodgers and overestimated how good Smith would be.

if you look at how most 2nd/3rd round QBs do, that grade of him honestly isn't far off. after brees and schaub there aren't many who have even hit the very low bar mr. small hands has set

also, didn't his meteoric rise come from his pro day workout? yea, because if I'm taking a guy #1 overall I want to make my opinion of him from a practice in shorts

bucfan12
01-14-2011, 01:41 PM
2005 Qb class is just a pure example of being weak. Rodgers had a lot of question marks and many teams passed, but certain teams didn't do there homework. Also it doesn't hurt sitting behind Favre for 3 years.

This year, the same thing. I think there are a lot of question marks surrounding these qb's and I think only one will be a starter and possible franchise QB. I think it's Gabbert.

John Preston
01-14-2011, 04:09 PM
I've watched every college game that Gabbert has ever played. He has "it".

A lot of people bash him for the system he runs, but it's not a good scheme, and his skill position talent this year was horrendous.

TJ Moe is a good college slot receiver, but he struggles to get separation against physical corners, and he was eaten alive in the Nebraska game. Although Michael Egnew was a Mackey Award finalist, he has little to no ability after the catch, and his hands are only a tick above average. The team had no gamebreakers either on the outside (Wes Kemp and Jerrell Jackson were subpar at best) or in the running game, as Derrick Washington was suspended before the first game for sexual assault.

The running game put up decent stats, but it was never a threat to consistently move the ball, and Dave Yost's play calling, with the exception of the Oklahoma game, was terribly predictable. 80+% of our HB runs were jet sweeps, and he used Gabbert as a runner on a zone read far too often, which exposed him to too many hits, and actually got him a hip pointer at the end of a blowout against Colorado.

These are the things I will say for Gabbert:

He has a tremendous arm. It's not just good, it's superior.

He's a very gifted athlete. He's not a quick accelerator, but he does have good top end speed, and he is hard to bring down.

He's one of the toughest QBs I've ever seen play the position. He played on a severe high ankle sprain that would have sidelined almost anyone last year after Suh almost ripped his leg off. He put up 300+ and 3 TDs against A&M playing with a hip pointer, and his worst game of the year against TTU (a forgettable performance) was when he was playing through a concussion from a H2H hit in the Nebraska game. That said, he never missed a game, even when the coaches told him they were going to pull him. He told Pinkel face to face last year that he "gives the team the best chance to win" even on one leg. He's a gamer.

He fits the ball well into tight spaces. It seems odd to consider for a team that runs the spread, but he had many throws where his WRs were unable to get separation and he was forced to hit them when they were NFL open, not college open, and he was excellent in doing so.

He is the leader of his team. TJ Moe gave one of the most glowing recommendations any player has ever given another after people were piling on Gabbert after his decision to declare.

He is a very hard worker. People who have shared classes with him, his coaches, and his teammates have all said that not only is he a dedicated student of the game, he's a dedicated student--period.

He's a grounded person. He's very likable and humble. You wouldn't know it by looking at him, but he's a lunch pail guy.

He has a good football IQ. Mizzou narrowly averted an upset against SDSU this year thanks to a 60+ yard TD he threw to Moe with a minute left in the game. Gabbert saw the Aztecs blitzing in a Cover 0 look and shifted the protection scheme at the line and hit his fourth receiver on the play, Moe, who made the first guy miss then scored a TD after an awesome seal block by Jerrell Jackson. He's much more football savvy than a lot of spread QBs who are completely helpless to make checks at the line.

Whoever drafts the kid is going to get a special player who is as physically talented as any QB to come out in the last several years.

Thecollegedropout
01-14-2011, 08:48 PM
THANK YOU

I am so sick of people making excuses for bust QBs

Alex Smith. David Carr. Jimmy Clausen.
So 1 year on an awful team is all the time a rookie gets until he is declared a bust? That's ridiculous, no offense.