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bigbuc
01-12-2011, 07:16 PM
Broke down some players on film. Tryon Smith they said had the best feet in the draft for a OT and very long arms. They said they see him as now a top 15 pick. Amukamara is closing the gap on PP and Jordan from Cal has shown to be very strong, very good against the run and shows he can rush the passer a little, They said Jordan could end up late 1st round.

princefielder28
01-12-2011, 07:50 PM
Jordan should be borderline Top 10

TACKLE
01-12-2011, 07:56 PM
Jordan should be borderline Top 10

Agreed. I don't expect he'll get past Dallas, Washington and Houston. The very lowest I see him going is to San Diego at #18.

keylime_5
01-12-2011, 09:33 PM
I think Jordan stays in that 10-20 range. Thing is there are some very good 3-4 DEs who are also in that range in JJ Watt and Cam Heyward. JJ Watt had 21 tfls this year!

cajuncorey
01-12-2011, 09:49 PM
Houston is going to a 3-4 so you know one of those 3-4 DE's has to be selected by them

gpngc
01-12-2011, 09:53 PM
^I'm intrigued by that transition.

Ryans and Williams are all MUCH better fits in the 4-3... and they don't have anyone to play OLB opposite Cushing, who may not be the best edge rusher either...

The only guys who fit are Okoye at NT (maybe?) and A. Smith at 5....

descendency
01-12-2011, 09:54 PM
Cameron Jordan 32nd overall would be an epic pickup for the Patriots. (or 33rd... though I think that pick gets traded for a 2012 1st and something else)

cajuncorey
01-12-2011, 09:56 PM
^I'm intrigued by that transition.

Ryans and Williams are all MUCH better fits in the 4-3... and they don't have anyone to play OLB opposite Cushing, who may not be the best edge rusher either...

The only guys who fit are Okoye at NT (maybe?) and A. Smith at 5....

yeah they are just screwing themselves unless they have a draft like that packers did in 2009, but talk about a waste of mario williams

TACKLE
01-12-2011, 09:59 PM
Cameron Jordan 32nd overall would be an epic pickup for the Patriots. (or 33rd... though I think that pick gets traded for a 2012 1st and something else)

Cameron Jordan 29th overall would be an epic pickup for the Ravens. Unfortunately its very unlikely that it will happen. Getting him at 17 is a much more likely option than expecting to get him at 32.

DBNYDP
01-12-2011, 10:16 PM
You might get your wish. It looks like he will drop to the second. Not a pass rusher at all. But great against the run.

D-Unit
01-12-2011, 10:20 PM
Scouts Inc is terrible. Always has been, always will be.

TACKLE
01-12-2011, 10:24 PM
Scouts Inc is terrible. Always has been, always will be.

Isn't Scouts Inc just Todd McShay's rankings?

ThePudge
01-12-2011, 10:31 PM
Isn't Scouts Inc just Todd McShay's rankings?

Todd McShay is the guy who has to go on tv to communicate and rationalize Scouts Inc's board.

descendency
01-12-2011, 10:31 PM
Cameron Jordan 29th overall would be an epic pickup for the Ravens. Unfortunately its very unlikely that it will happen. Getting him at 17 is a much more likely option than expecting to get him at 32.

Yeah, I don't bother reading Scouts Inc anymore because their big board is rarely ever right outside of the top 5. Team general managers seem to go crazy after that.

You might get your wish. It looks like he will drop to the second. Not a pass rusher at all. But great against the run.

More of a pass rusher than Cameron Heyward.

I'm a little scared he doesn't maintain control during rushing more though.

Halsey
01-12-2011, 10:59 PM
Scouts Inc is way too main stream. I'm too cool to read them.

JPP90
01-12-2011, 11:21 PM
All I know about Tyron Smith is that at 280 I don't feel good about seeing him try to block Mario Williams, Osi Umenyiora..the guys about as big as he is. These body-builder OT's never make it. At the end of the day you want your LT to be a big body 300+ with the raw strength to overpower a 280 lb man on a bull-rush. They may not be able to go around Tyron Smith but they will probably will go through him.

RealityCheck
01-12-2011, 11:25 PM
Scouts Inc is way too main stream. I'm too cool to read them.
http://images1.memegenerator.net/Hipster-Kitty/ImageMacro/2882519/Haitis-my-favorite-country-Its-so-underground.jpg

I thought Scouts Inc. was just McShay by himself... I may be wrong though.

cajuncorey
01-13-2011, 12:34 AM
All I know about Tyron Smith is that at 280 I don't feel good about seeing him try to block Mario Williams, Osi Umenyiora..the guys about as big as he is. These body-builder OT's never make it. At the end of the day you want your LT to be a big body 300+ with the raw strength to overpower a 280 lb man on a bull-rush. They may not be able to go around Tyron Smith but they will probably will go through him.

yeah hes like a screen door. easier to go through than around

ThePudge
01-13-2011, 12:52 AM
yeah hes like a screen door. easier to go through than around

Couldn't that be said for any working door?

brat316
01-13-2011, 01:00 AM
I just saw Tyron Smith vs Cal. woooo he is a terrible OT, in pass blocking. He is alright in run blocking. Might as well feed him and move him to OG. If he has the best feet, why can't he string guys wide? Also he got played a few times, once on the spin move.

TheMorningZoo
01-13-2011, 01:41 AM
Tyron Smith will only go 1st based on potential/upside. He is currently raw and an unfinished product (due to size). He should be able to pull a D'Brick and put on some bulk, but since as mentioned he is a "bodybuilder" OT he may not want to lose his physique. You might laugh, but just think about it. If he was to bulk the wrong way and put on 20 lbs of "bad" weight, it would only hurt him (loss of athleticism, conditioning, etc.). I think if a team takes him it will be late first, and they can groom him in a year. He would be solid at 310-315 which he should be able to add. Has all the potential in the world. Also to note, he may have the best feet and long arms-but he played RT at USC and Kalil played Left. We have yet to see him really go against the type of speed rushers he will face in the NFL (granted their are many good DE's in the Pac 10). In Today's NFL DE's are getting more athletic in general, and even LE's like Chris Long and and both OLB's in the 3-4 have speed.

JPP90
01-13-2011, 01:59 AM
Yea if he puts on the "bad weight" he just becomes like every other OT like out there topping 300 lbs. And that's what he's gonna have to do if he wants to succeed. He's gonna find its hard to match up with NFL-level linemen unless he gets bigger. I hope to God the Giants don't take him at 19 'cause I know how Jerry Reese likes these "specimen" types.

Scott Wright
01-13-2011, 02:00 AM
Like I've said before, Tyron Smith will be a ripped 300 pounder by the Scouting Combine.

JPP90
01-13-2011, 02:08 AM
Lol he's a PED suspension waiting to happen...let's snap him right up.

Incogneetus69
01-13-2011, 02:10 AM
http://images1.memegenerator.net/Hipster-Kitty/ImageMacro/2882519/Haitis-my-favorite-country-Its-so-underground.jpg

I thought Scouts Inc. was just McShay by himself... I may be wrong though.


Yuck.

Scott I know you like and are cool with all these guys but McSchay is a total doucher and Im not sure why ESPN is phasing Mel out.

SolidGold
01-13-2011, 07:50 AM
Yuck.

Scott I know you like and are cool with all these guys but McSchay is a total doucher and Im not sure why ESPN is phasing Mel out.

ESPN is stupid if they get rid of Kiper. I am a huge Mayock fan but really do like Kiper as well, if it wasn't for Kiper, McShay and his hack outfit would not have a job and websites like this would probably not exist. I don't think the draft would be as popular as it is. I respect Kiper and what he has done for the whole draft process. I am sure NFL Network would scoop him right up, I would love to see Mayock/Kiper debate college prospects.

I don't understand how anyone can like Todd McShay or Scouts Inc and they probably have pretty close to zero credibility with Pro Scouts.

Poz51
01-13-2011, 09:01 AM
Houston is going to a 3-4 so you know one of those 3-4 DE's has to be selected by them

Not true IMO, Williams is 6'6" and 295, could be a perfect 5 technique (Bruce Smith made the hall of fame smaller, playing in a similar scheme.), Smith has good size, Green has experience in a 3-4, and both should be able to handle the 3 technique, Mitchell and Okoye could probably handle it as well. I would think NT is going to be there biggest hole, Okoye might be the guy, could Cody handle it? I dont think so...

^I'm intrigued by that transition.
Ryans and Williams are all MUCH better fits in the 4-3... and they don't have anyone to play OLB opposite Cushing, who may not be the best edge rusher either...
The only guys who fit are Okoye at NT (maybe?) and A. Smith at 5....

As am I, Personally I think Ryans will be fine at ILB, regardless of scheme, he is smart and instinctive enough, Cushing is along the same line IMO, and should be able to handle the strong side in a 3-4, Mark Anderson backing up? Cushing may not be the greatest pass rusher, but I think will be a fine OLB in a 3-4, a guy like Von Miller as a Jack or WOLB would be a great compliment IMO. Williams at the 5 will be fine IMO, plenty of canidates for the 3, the 0 is what would worry me... Who plays next to Ryans would also be a concern...

yeah they are just screwing themselves unless they have a draft like that packers did in 2009, but talk about a waste of mario williams

I dont think they are that far off, but a draft like the Packers 09 would certainly help filling in the gaps, just dont see Williams being all that wasted...

Poz51
01-13-2011, 09:04 AM
ESPN would be crazy to let Kiper go, and lean on McShay...

CameronCropper
01-13-2011, 09:19 AM
ESPN would be crazy to let Kiper go, and lean on McShay...

They let Tim Hasselbeck and Trent Dilfer break down quarterback play, at this point nothing would surprise me.

yourfavestoner
01-13-2011, 10:42 AM
Dilfer is douchey at times, but he's the best analyst at ESPN.

Chidi29
01-13-2011, 11:25 AM
Dilfer is douchey at times, but he's the best analyst at ESPN.

I agree. He breaks plays down well.

katnip
01-13-2011, 12:01 PM
I think espn's phasing kiper out because he was rumored to be connecting nfl agents with still college players. Or something like that

JHL6719
01-13-2011, 12:08 PM
I'm partial to Kiper. Any ol' school draftnik came up following this guy many years ago, and realize he's the one that made the draft into the mainstream popularity fad that it is today.

Besides, is Todd McShay still going to have hair like Kipers after doing this gig for 25 years? Doubt it.

Poz51
01-13-2011, 12:28 PM
They let Tim Hasselbeck and Trent Dilfer break down quarterback play, at this point nothing would surprise me.

Personally I think Dilfer brings up good points, is good at his job, not exceptional, but does good work and brings up very good points, Hasselbeck is kind of, meh, has high points at times but nothing special, IMO. I grew up with Kiper, dont agree with him all the time, but certainly respect his points of view, and think he's a great point man for the draft. McShay leading the charge would make me watch the NFL networks coverage full time. Mcshay seems to rely on his own opinion more than I care for, his lack of knowledge about the sport itself doesnt help, and his belief in Aaron Maybin made me sick then, and I still harbor Ill feelings knowing he was wrong and I was not, losing much credibility in my eyes... Letting Kiper go, would be similar to letting Berman go, just not as stupid.

CameronCropper
01-13-2011, 12:38 PM
Dilfer is douchey at times, but he's the best analyst at ESPN.

That's not really saying much, if anything it goes to show how poor the analysts at ESPN are.

Personally I think Dilfer brings up good points, is good at his job, not exceptional, but does good work and brings up very good points, Hasselbeck is kind of, meh, has high points at times but nothing special, IMO. I grew up with Kiper, dont agree with him all the time, but certainly respect his points of view, and think he's a great point man for the draft. McShay leading the charge would make me watch the NFL networks coverage full time. Mcshay seems to rely on his own opinion more than I care for, his lack of knowledge about the sport itself doesnt help, and his belief in Aaron Maybin made me sick then, and I still harbor Ill feelings knowing he was wrong and I was not, losing much credibility in my eyes... Letting Kiper go, would be similar to letting Berman go, just not as stupid.

If I'm honest my problem with Trent Dilfer as an analyst comes down to the fact that if you're not one of his favourites he tends to throw you under the bus. I cannot remember how many times after Jay Cutler has had an excellent game he'll come along and clutch at straws in an attempt to discredit him, something I see as both unprofessional and simply pathetic.

Poz51
01-13-2011, 12:55 PM
If I'm honest my problem with Trent Dilfer as an analyst comes down to the fact that if you're not one of his favourites he tends to throw you under the bus. I cannot remember how many times after Jay Cutler has had an excellent game he'll come along and clutch at straws in an attempt to discredit him, something I see as both unprofessional and simply pathetic.

I will try to see if I notice that about him, I recall him having issue with some of Cutlers throws being rather cavailier, but if what you say is true (after good games), I would see your problem with him. Interesting, I will try to pay closer attention and see if I notice that about him.

cajuncorey
01-13-2011, 01:42 PM
Not true IMO, Williams is 6'6" and 295, could be a perfect 5 technique (Bruce Smith made the hall of fame smaller, playing in a similar scheme.), Smith has good size, Green has experience in a 3-4, and both should be able to handle the 3 technique, Mitchell and Okoye could probably handle it as well. I would think NT is going to be there biggest hole, Okoye might be the guy, could Cody handle it? I dont think so...

I dont think they are that far off, but a draft like the Packers 09 would certainly help filling in the gaps, just dont see Williams being all that wasted...

with all due respect, williams is not the perfect 5 technique. hes a perfect 4-3 Defensive end. he may have the perfect size and ability. but i do not see a player of his ego let himself be a guy that just plugs gaps. they honestly need to trade williams if they are going to go through with his.

speaking of the packers look what happened to aaron kampman when they tryed to change his position. it did not work out too well. unless hes installing a 3-4 scheme similar to the cowboys penetrating 1 gap system he will not have sucess. williams will not allow a talented player like himself be wasted in a 2 gap system.

and for NT they should get phil taylor or kendrick ellis in the mid rounds

yourfavestoner
01-13-2011, 02:02 PM
with all due respect, williams is not the perfect 5 technique. hes a perfect 4-3 Defensive end. he may have the perfect size and ability. but i do not see a player of his ego let himself be a guy that just plugs gaps. they honestly need to trade williams if they are going to go through with his.

speaking of the packers look what happened to aaron kampman when they tryed to change his position. it did not work out too well. unless hes installing a 3-4 scheme similar to the cowboys penetrating 1 gap system he will not have sucess. williams will not allow a talented player like himself be wasted in a 2 gap system.

and for NT they should get phil taylor or kendrick ellis in the mid rounds

Wade's 3-4 is a one gap scheme. It's basically a 4-3 under with a stand up end.

JHL6719
01-13-2011, 02:07 PM
Wade's 3-4 is a one gap scheme. It's basically a 4-3 under with a stand up end.

Doesn't Mike Nolan run the same type of one gap scheme, basically a hybrid scheme consisting of more single gap concepts relying on penetration and a stand-up DE/OLB hybrid? (Cam Wake, Elvis Dumerville, etc.)

cajuncorey
01-13-2011, 03:45 PM
Wade's 3-4 is a one gap scheme. It's basically a 4-3 under with a stand up end.

i know im saying that would be good for williams. read my sentence again

yourfavestoner
01-13-2011, 04:20 PM
with all due respect, williams is not the perfect 5 technique. hes a perfect 4-3 Defensive end. he may have the perfect size and ability. but i do not see a player of his ego let himself be a guy that just plugs gaps. they honestly need to trade williams if they are going to go through with his.

speaking of the packers look what happened to aaron kampman when they tryed to change his position. it did not work out too well. unless hes installing a 3-4 scheme similar to the cowboys penetrating 1 gap system he will not have sucess. williams will not allow a talented player like himself be wasted in a 2 gap system.


Except for that one unbolded qualifier, your entire post talks about how terrible of a fit he'd be in a two gap system.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-13-2011, 04:22 PM
Dilfer is douchey at times, but he's the best analyst at ESPN.

I'm a bit biased, but Dilfer is a mega tool and an all around ******.

cajuncorey
01-13-2011, 06:55 PM
Except for that one unbolded qualifier, your entire post talks about how terrible of a fit he'd be in a two gap system.

he wouldnt be terrible. it would be a waste of his talent though

Poz51
01-13-2011, 07:47 PM
with all due respect, williams is not the perfect 5 technique. hes a perfect 4-3 Defensive end. he may have the perfect size and ability. but i do not see a player of his ego let himself be a guy that just plugs gaps. they honestly need to trade williams if they are going to go through with his.

speaking of the packers look what happened to aaron kampman when they tryed to change his position. it did not work out too well. unless hes installing a 3-4 scheme similar to the cowboys penetrating 1 gap system he will not have sucess. williams will not allow a talented player like himself be wasted in a 2 gap system.

and for NT they should get phil taylor or kendrick ellis in the mid rounds

With all do respect, you do know that Wade Phillips is their new defensive coordinator.... He seems to think Williams like Bruce Smith (I read this to counter your point, after I made the Bruce Smtih comparison), will be just fine, and he seems to know a thing or two about defense, particularly one gap penetrating 3-4's. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/11/wade-phillips-insists-mario-williams-will-fit-a-3-4-defense/
I said he "COULD" be the perfect 5 tech, and I will change that to "WILL BE" a perfect 5 technique in this Wade Phillips 3-4, I would even say his skill set is a perfect fit for this system, and as a 4-3 (Which Phillips 3-4 closely resembles, especially on passing downs) end as well. Where are you getting this Ego issue with him?? I would appreciate it, as I have yet to hear of that issue with him. While we are at it, I am not sure Taylor or Ellis fit thier "1 gap" system they will be running. Although they both could be great fits in a two gap system, I think they would be "wasted" in Phillips 3-4, as neither are penetrators, both over 340 pounds. However Phillips has worked very effectively with more traditional 3-4 NT's before, Ted Washington, Pat Williams and Jamal Williams come to mind... So they both "COULD" be options... And the Packers run a different system, and Kampman (at 6'4" and 260ish) is a different type of player...