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REDSKINSWARRIOR82
01-14-2011, 10:44 AM
The way i look at it why is the NFL and NFL draft people not allowing True Sophomores to come out. If your a Freak like Mario Williams. (dude was like 6-5 270 as a soph, Calvin Johnson, Sean Taylor (r.i.P) why do you need to play one more free year of football in college for?
Some of this players would have still been First round picks as true sophomores, Why cant they just be allowed?
Everybody knows you cant play football forever. Its a hard sport to play, and with the 18 NFL games a season coming soon. Why play one extra free year of football. When you could be getting paid in the NFL?
If a 19 year old kid wants to be a boxer he can, IF a 18 year old kid wants to be a kick boxer,MMA fighter, Wrestler in the WWe he cant. Sports that dont even use pads. But the NCAA and NFL wants to keep athletes from making money. I think thats why the temptation for athletes to take illegal gifts in college football is so HIGH. BEcause they are trapped for 3 or 4 years in college.
i think they should be able to follow their dreams and career playing pro ITS their American given right to get paid . If your ready i say let the athletes come out, look at the NBA for example. Blake Griffin kid is a freak and came out after 1 year or 2?

I am pretty sure right out of HS he could have done well, so would have LeBron. Now the other point to this will be.
Well what about the football players that are sophomores that will not be ready to play. well that's their problem i think.

But taken one year of the ability for Stud players to make money is crazy.
positions that dont need 3 years and sophomores should be allowed in enter draft are ,
running backs, Full backs, Line backers. Safeties.
Dt, De, Kickers, punters. Returners. and wide receivers, Tight ends

the only positions i feel need more time in college are Quarter backs, Offensive linemen, that's it.
'
and on top of that look at a Guy like Ryan Williams from Va Tech . He had a monster RS_frh year, if he would have need allowed to come out ,he would have been a last first round pick. because he cant he stayed at Va Tech had a so so year, now his projected as a round 2, round 3 guys, so staying in school he lost about 5 million $$$

The average NFL career is 3-5 years

thebow305
01-14-2011, 10:56 AM
No.

What are you doing?

Scott Wright
01-14-2011, 11:00 AM
Absolutely not in my opinion.

There are rare exceptions but most 19-year-olds aren't ready for the NFL.

Look at how all of the raw, immature kids ruined the NBA (at least for me).

PossibleCabbage
01-14-2011, 11:08 AM
Moreover, I don't think NFL teams even want true sophomores. Look at the trouble that you have already when you draft RS Jrs. You're basically spending a draft pick (it may be high) and a roster spot for a guy who absolutely will not be ready to play in the NFL for at least a year. Do you think NFL GMs even want to bother having to deal with "this guy has tremendous upside, but he won't be able to help us for two years"?

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
01-14-2011, 11:14 AM
Moreover, I don't think NFL teams even want true sophomores. Look at the trouble that you have already when you draft RS Jrs. You're basically spending a draft pick (it may be high) and a roster spot for a guy who absolutely will not be ready to play in the NFL for at least a year. Do you think NFL GMs even want to bother having to deal with "this guy has tremendous upside, but he won't be able to help us for two years"?


Ok how many Players even seniors are ready to step into the NFL and be a full time starter from day one? Maybe like 6 or 9 a year.
People are saying guys like Newton , Jake Locker, are going to need 3 or 4 years to get ready.

You look at positions like Wideout, Running back, Linebacker, Safety. DE, pass rusher. You dont really need alot of time in college to be good at those spots. Running backs take alot of hits in college. i guy like John Clay, or Ryan Williams, even Dion Lewis lost money staying in school one more year thats not fair.

And Wide outs like Gurley from SC, 6-5 235 he is already 23 years old,? Wat does he need one more year of college for? to help SC play for free.
Playing for free isnt cool , not at all.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
01-14-2011, 11:31 AM
i know, right? i totally advocate paying high school players. i mean, why shouldn't they be able to make the jump right to the nfl, too?

i mean, assuming we even accept the utterly illogical and ridiculous argument that they're playing for free. what's sad is that there are probably arguments to be made for allowing sophomores to declare, you're just not making any of them.


Ok well if there any folks more brain cells than i, that have the gift for for english and writing and want to help me out with PROS of why Soph should be able to come out. Go for it.

STsACE
01-14-2011, 11:33 AM
Ok how many Players even seniors are ready to step into the NFL and be a full time starter from day one? Maybe like 6 or 9 a year.
People are saying guys like Newton , Jake Locker, are going to need 3 or 4 years to get ready.

You look at positions like Wideout, Running back, Linebacker, Safety. DE, pass rusher. You dont really need alot of time in college to be good at those spots. Running backs take alot of hits in college. i guy like John Clay, or Ryan Williams, even Dion Lewis lost money staying in school one more year thats not fair.

And Wide outs like Gurley from SC, 6-5 235 he is already 23 years old,? Wat does he need one more year of college for? to help SC play for free.
Playing for free isnt cool , not at all.

FREE?????

How much does a full ride scholarship for one year cost for these phenoms in college? Most are allowed to go through college without being as smart as you would suspect. Play out your scholarship, follow the rule of 3 years removed from HS to declare for draft and leave it alone.

How many of these one year wonders having tremendous seasons finish their college career as mediocre, non NFL talent?

thebow305
01-14-2011, 11:34 AM
Dude, just stop.

ThePudge
01-14-2011, 11:35 AM
i guy like John Clay, or Ryan Williams, even Dion Lewis lost money staying in school one more year thats not fair.

I think you're missing a big point: who cares what the player wants? If you want this league to stay in business, you need to let them make rules that favor safer investments. So many bums walking around living off of professional contracts they didn't deserve. Two/three years of film gives NFL scouts and coaches more to study on the players, more insight to their dedication, and it essentially weeds out some guys that definitely were not going to make it.

Who cares if Ryan Williams had a better year last season and would have been paid more had he declared a year ago? He came back, had a rocky season, and now teams will be hesitant to pull the trigger until the 2nd-3rd Round. That's not a bad thing. Less money for the player, sure, but a wiser investment for the NFL.

Everyone here would like to earn more money, but that doesn't mean we deserve it.

brat316
01-14-2011, 11:35 AM
they aren't playing for free. Someone is paying for their college education. Why can't they earn a respectable degree and do something with that? Unless your are saying they are to stupid. They might as well dropout after a year of college and join UFL, or CFL.

MI_Buckeye
01-14-2011, 11:39 AM
Warrior, I am sort of with you 100 percent on this issue, but I am a big-time hypocrite.

My convictions tell me these kids should be given the right to take a shot at the league whenever they want. If they fail or are not ready, that is part of having freedom of choice. To me, it is far more fair than forcing a guy like Adrian Peterson or Mark Ingram to take an extra year of pounding, thus possibly costing themselves millions later in their career.

But on the othner hand, I love seeing these guys stick around as a college football fan. I selfishly hope the rules for declaring for the draft never get changed, because I enjoy getting to know the players, and when the Buckeyes have a stud like Big Daddy Wilkinson, Orlando Pace, David Boston or Beanie Wells, I want them staying in Columbus as long as they possibly can.

Shane P. Hallam
01-14-2011, 11:51 AM
I did a whole podcast on this. My feelings are such:

Should they be given the option if they feel they are ready? Yes.

Are they ready? 99% of the time, no.

PossibleCabbage
01-14-2011, 11:57 AM
The important thing to note is that whether or not it's fair or in the best interest of college players to be able to come out earlier, that doesn't actually matter. Since the eligibility of college players to enter the draft is determined by the NFL and the NFLPA, neither of which represent any amateur athletes in any capacity.

If the NFL deems that it's in their best interest to keep players in for an extra year, they are fully entitled to just keep it that way. The league currently believes that "at least three years out of high school" has more or less optimized the talent you get in the draft, and that's the way it's going to stay.

Another thing worth considering is that the NFL does not want to antagonize college coaches or football programs as a whole here. The NCAA basically provides a free farm league for the NFL, and the NFL would like to keep it that way. I doubt coaches would be excited to have to replace their best players every two years, especially after several generations heir former stars get drafted high and flame out because 19-year-old kids are stupid.

I know there are true sophomores who think they're ready for the NFL, just like there are high school seniors who think that they're ready for the NFL. But the people who ought to make this evaluation are on the side of the league not the side of the player. The risks for a guy coming out too early vastly outweigh the risks for a guy coming out too late.

yourfavestoner
01-14-2011, 11:58 AM
What needs to happen is for the NFL to set up a legitimate minor league.

TBH, I'm done with college sports. At least with professional sports you know it's all about the money. I'm tired of the student-athlete farce perpetuated by the NCAA, the universities, and the athletes themselves.

If done right, I think a legit D-league could do quite well and could even rival or overtake college football. It would attract the best talent (not castoffs like the UFL, AFL, or NFL Europe), and said talent would be paid and properly developed for the NFL game, and you could have the season in spring/summertime. And they could actually get paid, which is all they're really looking for anyways.

Then, CFB can be for people who actually want to get a degree and don't have much of a future in professional sports. Everyone wins except for the people at the top of the NCAA raking in huge bucks. But **** those guys anyways.

Shane P. Hallam
01-14-2011, 11:59 AM
If done right, I think a legit D-league could do quite well and could even rival or overtake college football. It would attract the best talent (not castoffs like the UFL, AFL, or NFL Europe), said talent would be paid and properly developed for the NFL game, and you could have the season in spring/summertime.


Yeah, that won't happen. Too much money, allegiance, history, etc, in college football.

yourfavestoner
01-14-2011, 12:33 PM
Yeah, that won't happen. Too much money, allegiance, history, etc, in college football.

I know it's not gonna happen. I'm just saying that the NCAA needs the NFL much more than the NFL needs the NCAA. If they decided to give CFB the middle finger and start their own farm system, it would be a hell of a lot better for everyone and would solve a lot of these problems.

whatadai
01-14-2011, 01:29 PM
My son is in pee wee football and I think he's ready for the NFL. All 4'1" and 50 lbs. of him. I don't think he should be playing for free anymore since he dominates kids his age.

Halsey
01-14-2011, 01:37 PM
Nobody should be able to tell a private business they can't hire someone who's legally an adult. Heck, there are people under 18 competing as professionals in some sports and others jobs. However, that's just not good for the business of football and selfishly I don't really want that to change.

Halsey
01-14-2011, 01:47 PM
and, bizarrely, no one is.

The NFL is telling teams they can't have anyone on their roster who's not at least 3 years out of high school. NFL teams are private businesses. The policy was challenged and defeated in court only to be overturned when the NFL threw some money around.

wonderbredd24
01-14-2011, 01:53 PM
The NFL is telling teams they can't have anyone on their roster who's not at least 3 years out of high school. NFL teams are private businesses. The policy was challenged and defeated in court only to be overturned when the NFL threw some money around.
The NFL is the private business who does not want to hire them.

And to answer the question, no. People underestimate the jump in size and speed from college to the NFL.

Halsey
01-14-2011, 02:04 PM
The NFL is the private business who does not want to hire them.

And to answer the question, no. People underestimate the jump in size and speed from college to the NFL.

The NFL is an association of multiple private businesses. Hence the "League" after "National" and "Football".

MI_Buckeye
01-14-2011, 02:09 PM
What needs to happen is for the NFL to set up a legitimate minor league.

TBH, I'm done with college sports. At least with professional sports you know it's all about the money. I'm tired of the student-athlete farce perpetuated by the NCAA, the universities, and the athletes themselves.

If done right, I think a legit D-league could do quite well and could even rival or overtake college football. It would attract the best talent (not castoffs like the UFL, AFL, or NFL Europe), and said talent would be paid and properly developed for the NFL game, and you could have the season in spring/summertime. And they could actually get paid, which is all they're really looking for anyways.

Then, CFB can be for people who actually want to get a degree and don't have much of a future in professional sports. Everyone wins except for the people at the top of the NCAA raking in huge bucks. But **** those guys anyways.


I think that plan would have exactly zero chance of succeeding, and I think I may be giving it too much credit.

TACKLE
01-14-2011, 02:45 PM
What needs to happen is for the NFL to set up a legitimate minor league.

TBH, I'm done with college sports. At least with professional sports you know it's all about the money. I'm tired of the student-athlete farce perpetuated by the NCAA, the universities, and the athletes themselves.

If done right, I think a legit D-league could do quite well and could even rival or overtake college football. It would attract the best talent (not castoffs like the UFL, AFL, or NFL Europe), and said talent would be paid and properly developed for the NFL game, and you could have the season in spring/summertime. And they could actually get paid, which is all they're really looking for anyways.

Then, CFB can be for people who actually want to get a degree and don't have much of a future in professional sports. Everyone wins except for the people at the top of the NCAA raking in huge bucks. But **** those guys anyways.

Conceptionally, I totally agree.

Why should a highschool kid have to pursue three years of a university education in order to have the opportunity to play professional football? The two are really unrelated to each other. No other professional sport mandates its athletes to go to university. Even the NBA has gives players the option to go play in Europe a year ala Brandon Jennings. There really should be a route athletes can go if they don't want to be academics. The UFL could become an alternate route but I doubt it ever becomes a legitimate option for star athletes coming out of highschool. In Canada, there's junior football that's independent of college where players can play and be drafted by CFL teams; though it doesn't happen a lot. But NCAA football has developed into to such a large of a money making institution that a minor league system would be squashed. I certainly think its something that should be put in but it doesn't look like it'll happen anytime soon.

wonderbredd24
01-14-2011, 02:52 PM
I've said it before, I'll say it again. The UFL should try to position itself as the NFL's developmental league. If a league wants to take kids right out of highschool, the UFL should be the one to do it, especially as a landing spot for kids that ruin their eligibility.

PossibleCabbage
01-14-2011, 03:19 PM
The NFL is an association of multiple private businesses. Hence the "League" after "National" and "Football".

Aren't the rules for the draft collectively bargained between the 32 NFL teams and the NFLPA? I sincerely doubt that it's the union saying "don't draft these guys" I think it's more the teams saying "we don't want these guys in the draft."

yourfavestoner
01-14-2011, 03:22 PM
I think that plan would have exactly zero chance of succeeding, and I think I may be giving it too much credit.

For what reasons? I keep hearing it won't work, but haven't heard the reasoning behind it. The NFL doesn't owe the NCAA anything, and if they chose to privatize their own farm system, the NCAA wouldn't be able to do anything to stop it. And it's not like the NFL is seeing any of that college football money anyways.

Just look at how wildly successful European soccer academies are. And almost all of those are owned by individual soccer franchises.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
01-14-2011, 03:23 PM
Antonio Gates didnt even play any college football at all,and he is going to the hall of fame. Graham te from Miami played basketball for 3 years,football for one. And he is doing well with the saints. NFL is just to big and powerful. But college football needs to change some things. Make a serperate group for football than other college sports,and pay players in college playing football. Or some billionaire should start a league for 17-20 year olds that pays. And has like night school. Kinda like job core.

PossibleCabbage
01-14-2011, 04:15 PM
any argument for paying college football players is wrong, period.

I'm honestly not sure about that. I've considered in the past that in light of the incredible amounts of money that athletes bring to their universities, that it might be reasonable to pay them a stipend of an hourly wage at the same rate as students employed elsewhere by the university (say as cafeteria labor) for their practice and game time. This would generally result in less than $5000 per student per season, and everybody would get the same stipend whether they're the starting QB or the third string longsnapper.

A system like this could certainly be workable, and would eliminate at least some of the corruption plaguing NCAA athletics.

yourfavestoner
01-14-2011, 04:15 PM
wow, really? antonio gates didn't play college football so they should pay college football players?




any argument for paying college football players is wrong, period. a valid reason has never and literally will never be presented. if the UFL thinks it can make money paying 18 year olds to play football, it's more than welcome to do so. i can't wait until those same 18 year olds spend the rest of their lives cooking fries because they massively overrated their ability to play football because they listened to predatory agents starting from age 14. but the day a university forgets who actually makes it money is the day i vote to stop giving it my tax money in any way, shape, or form.

TBH, this part is what got me thinking about this entire subject. The entire system is an incredible waste of taxpayer money. I dunno if any of you read the story about UConn, but their BCS bowl appearance ended up costing the school a ton of money. That money goes to the BCS and it comes from the tax paying people of Connecticut.

And the majority of these kids spend the rest of their lives cooking fries anyways. With this, you wouldn't have to pay for them to **** around for four years, wasting a college education that they could care less about in the first place.

yourfavestoner
01-14-2011, 04:16 PM
I'm honestly not sure about that. I've considered in the past that in light of the incredible amounts of money that athletes bring to their universities, that it might be reasonable to pay them a stipend of an hourly wage at the same rate as students employed elsewhere by the university (say as cafeteria labor) for their practice and game time. This would generally result in around $5000 per student per season, and everybody would get the same stipend whether they're the starting QB or the third string longsnapper.

A system like this could certainly be workable, and would eliminate at least some of the corruption plaguing NCAA athletics.

Problem with this is Title IX. You'd have to pay all student athletes, including the programs that hemorrhage the most money (ie women's sports).

ThePudge
01-14-2011, 04:48 PM
I'm honestly not sure about that. I've considered in the past that in light of the incredible amounts of money that athletes bring to their universities, that it might be reasonable to pay them a stipend of an hourly wage at the same rate as students employed elsewhere by the university (say as cafeteria labor) for their practice and game time. This would generally result in less than $5000 per student per season, and everybody would get the same stipend whether they're the starting QB or the third string longsnapper.

A system like this could certainly be workable, and would eliminate at least some of the corruption plaguing NCAA athletics.

Except maybe only 10-15 universities actually make money off their athletics program.

RealityCheck
01-14-2011, 06:36 PM
Yes, yes and yes.

This has been discussed millions of times in the past. They do have the right to play professionally and they should get that right.

RealityCheck
01-14-2011, 06:46 PM
and they bloody well have that right if they find a league willing to pay them. they have NO RIGHT WHATSO*******EVER to play in the nfl. period. full stop. end of discussion.
Try telling guys like Alshon Jeffery, Vontaze Burfict and Michael Dyer that and they'll prove you're wrong. They are adults and they have the right to seek for a job they're capable of doing.

In the meanwhile, read this:


http://www.christophertblacklaw.com/archived-publications/nfl-draft-eligibility-rule-and-sherman-antitrust-act.html (http://www.christophertblacklaw.com/archived-publications/nfl-draft-eligibility-rule-and-sherman-antitrust-act.html)

wordofi
01-14-2011, 08:17 PM
The way i look at it why is the NFL and NFL draft people not allowing True Sophomores to come out. If your a Freak like Mario Williams. (dude was like 6-5 270 as a soph, Calvin Johnson, Sean Taylor (r.i.P) why do you need to play one more free year of football in college for?
Some of this players would have still been First round picks as true sophomores, Why cant they just be allowed?
Everybody knows you cant play football forever. Its a hard sport to play, and with the 18 NFL games a season coming soon. Why play one extra free year of football. When you could be getting paid in the NFL?
If a 19 year old kid wants to be a boxer he can, IF a 18 year old kid wants to be a kick boxer,MMA fighter, Wrestler in the WWe he cant. Sports that dont even use pads. But the NCAA and NFL wants to keep athletes from making money. I think thats why the temptation for athletes to take illegal gifts in college football is so HIGH. BEcause they are trapped for 3 or 4 years in college.
i think they should be able to follow their dreams and career playing pro ITS their American given right to get paid . If your ready i say let the athletes come out, look at the NBA for example. Blake Griffin kid is a freak and came out after 1 year or 2?

I am pretty sure right out of HS he could have done well, so would have LeBron. Now the other point to this will be.
Well what about the football players that are sophomores that will not be ready to play. well that's their problem i think.

But taken one year of the ability for Stud players to make money is crazy.
positions that dont need 3 years and sophomores should be allowed in enter draft are ,
running backs, Full backs, Line backers. Safeties.
Dt, De, Kickers, punters. Returners. and wide receivers, Tight ends

the only positions i feel need more time in college are Quarter backs, Offensive linemen, that's it.
'
and on top of that look at a Guy like Ryan Williams from Va Tech . He had a monster RS_frh year, if he would have need allowed to come out ,he would have been a last first round pick. because he cant he stayed at Va Tech had a so so year, now his projected as a round 2, round 3 guys, so staying in school he lost about 5 million $$$

The average NFL career is 3-5 years

You obviously have no idea of what "rights" are, but that's for another website.

They don't have to play football. Therefore, the NFL and NCAA can set the rules. I personally like the rule because it makes college football good. Athletes have to stay which builds team cohesiveness and allows them to develop. College basketball, on the other hand, is a different story.

MI_Buckeye
01-14-2011, 09:54 PM
For what reasons? I keep hearing it won't work, but haven't heard the reasoning behind it. The NFL doesn't owe the NCAA anything, and if they chose to privatize their own farm system, the NCAA wouldn't be able to do anything to stop it. And it's not like the NFL is seeing any of that college football money anyways.

Just look at how wildly successful European soccer academies are. And almost all of those are owned by individual soccer franchises.

Because the existing system simply has too much momentum behind it. Boosters and donors already give millions to schools to put a winning product on the field, and as a result, American football has the most exciting and widely followed professional feeder system in the world. The NFL may not owe the NCAA anything, but it knows a sweetheart deal when it sees it, and what they have is as sweet as it gets.

Americans have grown up identifying with these college programs as much as they have with their pro teams (more in some parts of the country). I have always said, the reason the XFL bombed was not because the football sucked. Football fans will find excitement in the poopiest games if they just have a little drama and rooting interest. People didnt give two stale turds about the Memphis Maniax or whatever the F they were called.

baronzeus
01-15-2011, 02:02 AM
Even if only 10-15 schools make money from their sports programs, sports programs are _invaluable_ to the schools.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
01-15-2011, 06:26 AM
NflThats part of the problem the college football pro athletes don't have representation. Spike Lee said it himself on ESPN Martin Luther King show. College football PRO athletes are pimped. Pimped by the NCAA. NCAA can cell a Aj Green,Terelle Pryor jersey for hundreds of dollars,but Pryor cant sell his own property? That's a double standard. If the NCAA gave college PRO athletes more rights ,then that's one thing but this men can't work,can sell their own property,can't help their families. If this pro college athletes transfer they must sit out a year or two sometimes. While head coaches make millions. The school makes millions. And the pimps I mean NCAA makes billions. selling pro college players likeness jerseys to EA sports to make more cash on the PRO COLLEGE ATHLETES. Now am not saying college is bad,and I would love for this athletes to get degrees. But some of this bigtime universites tell the athletes to major in communitation. Pe ,sports marketing. majors that font make any more,but anyone can pass the classes, so this young men can play on Saturdays. Give them more freedoms,and rights that's all am saying. The important thing to note is that whether or not it's fair or in the best interest of college players to be able to come out earlier, that doesn't actually matter. Since the eligibility of college players to enter the draft is determined by the NFL and the NFLPA, neither of which represent any amateur athletes in any capacity.

If the NFL deems that it's in their best interest to keep players in for an extra year, they are fully entitled to just keep it that way. The league currently believes that "at least three years out of high school" has more or less optimized the talent you get in the draft, and that's the way it's going to stay.

Another thing worth considering is that the NFL does not want to antagonize college coaches or football programs as a whole here. The NCAA basically provides a free farm league for the NFL, and the NFL would like to keep it that way. I doubt coaches would be excited to have to replace their best players every two years, especially after several generations heir former stars get drafted high and flame out because 19-year-old kids are stupid.

I know there are true sophomores who think they're ready for the NFL, just like there are high school seniors who think that they're ready for the NFL. But the people who ought to make this evaluation are on the side of the league not the side of the player. The risks for a guy coming out too early vastly outweigh the risks for a guy coming out too late.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
01-15-2011, 06:35 AM
Wrong that's just wrong they dont have to play football. So. if someone has a dream ,then just because the system to make that dream come true isn't fair the players should not do it? Listen I love college football just like the next guy,but ncaa are pimps. Give the players more freedoms,and control. PAY THEM and people like me will be fine with the ncaa.This athletes are PROS they are in a money making league therefore their PROS IN MY view. You obviously have no idea of what "rights" are, but that's for another website.

They don't have to play football. Therefore, the NFL and NCAA can set the rules. I personally like the rule because it makes college football good. Athletes have to stay which builds team cohesiveness and allows them to develop. College basketball, on the other hand, is a different story.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
01-15-2011, 06:41 AM
Hmm Mi_Buck we finaly agree on something. A minor league for football would never work. Ok fine then give this pro college athletes more freedoms,options,let them sell their own jerseys. And transfer anytime without punishing them. OH YEAH AND PAY THEM for their services. I think that plan would have exactly zero chance of succeeding, and I think I may be giving it too much credit.

DBNYDP
01-15-2011, 12:10 PM
Paying college football players is stupid.
What is going to happen is that colleges will just start a bidding war over players which is borderline ridiculous.
Plus they are getting payed...with an education. And that is priceless.
:)

PossibleCabbage
01-15-2011, 12:25 PM
Thats part of the problem the college football pro athletes don't have representation. Spike Lee said it himself on ESPN Martin Luther King show. College football PRO athletes are limped. Pumped by the NCAA. NCAA can cell a Aj Green,Terelle Pryor jersey for hundreds of dollars,but Pryor cant sell his own property? That's a double standard. If the NCAA gave college PRO athletes more rights ,then that's one thing but this men can't work,can sell their own property,can't help their families. If this pro college athletes transfer they must sit out a year or two sometimes. While head coaches make millions. The school makes millions. And the pimps I mean NCAA makes billions. selling pro college players likeness jerseys to EA sports to make more cash on the PRO COLLEGE ATHLETES. Now am not saying college is bad,and I would love for this athletes to get degrees. But some of this bigtime universites tell the athletes to major in communitation. Pe ,sports marketing. majors that font make any more,but anyone can pass the classes, so this young men can play on Saturdays. Give them more freedoms,and rights that's all am saying.

This is the NCAA's problem, not the NFL's problem. Prospective employees aren't entitled to representation in negotiations between management and the actual current employees (because the set of "Prospective Employees" is generally the set of "Everyone" minus the set of "Actual Employees"). If the teams of the league collectively decide that "we don't want to hire people until they're at least 3 years out of high school and the union has no problem with that, then that's all there is to say about this issue.

Should the NCAA do something to help clean up and fix college athletics? Absolutely, but there's a lot of things the NCAA should do but hasn't and probably won't. I'm still waiting for for the NCAA to give us a National Championship in Division I football, after all.

phlysac
01-16-2011, 08:43 AM
Using the terms Freshman, Sophomore, etc can be very deceiving.

Pitt RB Dion Lewis is a "True Sophomore" but has declared and was eligible to do so. It isn't fair to categorize all class-levels as being equal.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
01-16-2011, 10:14 AM
Using the terms Freshman, Sophomore, etc can be very deceiving.

Pitt RB Dion Lewis is a "True Sophomore" but has declared and was eligible to do so. It isn't fair to categorize all class-levels as being equal.

Ok two years out of highschool is what I meant. And yes i believe pro college athletes should paid,and should be allowed to have summer jobs. And be allowed to sell their jerseys since its private property.

LizardState
01-16-2011, 10:48 AM
Absolutely not in my opinion.

There are rare exceptions but most 19-year-olds aren't ready for the NFL.

Agreed. The NFL teams would just love it, they could sucker the naive young guys into playing for far < they would otherwise be worth.

And it would play absolute hell with college programs & their recruiting. Agents are already swooping in on freshmen & sophs in college now, big programs are passing policy rules to keep them away, both Florida & Bama both did that this last season, they know they have a lot to lose if agents even get a player's cellphone number.

PossibleCabbage
01-16-2011, 11:01 AM
And yes i believe pro college athletes should ...be allowed to have summer jobs.

I believe they are. Didn't Rhett Bomar get in trouble at Oklahoma because he got paid for his summer job (at a car dealership IIRC), but never actually showed up and actually did the job. He didn't get in trouble because he worked at a car dealership, he got in trouble because it's against NCAA rules to give somebody money for no reason other than "he's the Oklahoma QB."

dannyz
01-16-2011, 04:16 PM
I think they should allow Sophmores go. I think some are ready after their Second Year in College.

PossibleCabbage
01-16-2011, 09:11 PM
I think they should allow Sophmores go. I think some are ready after their Second Year in College.

I'm almost certain that if NFL personnel guys thought that enough college football players would be ready to play in the NFL after their second year in college to make a meaningful difference on the draft, they would change the rule. I'm also almost certain that NFL personnel guys know more about this than you or I.

Halsey
01-16-2011, 09:54 PM
People who argue against younger players entering the NFL have one reason, and one reason alone: They like college football and don't want more players leaving sooner. It's not debatable that some players could play in the NFL prior to being 3 years out of high school. It's fact. The only reason someone would argue otherwise is the previously mentioned agenda.

wogitalia
01-16-2011, 09:55 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to something along the lines of allowing a Sophomore to go pro if the competition board that advises undergraduates on their draft grade gave the player a top 20 grade.

Basically it would mean that the only Sophomores that declare for the draft are guaranteed of being very high picks. It would mean that you might have 1 a year that declares instead of a massive influx and all of a sudden the NFL teams have cut good players to develop these guys who have potential. Just look at the NBA to see the negative impact that has had, it's taken about 10 years to start showing signs of having fixed it.

To be honest I think it would be better for the NFL and the USA in general if they passed a rule that required you to graduate college or at least be 4 years out of HS as it would send a clear message that education is important no matter what. Then again, I absolutely think that the NCAA needs to work academics into deciding bowl games because far too much emphasis has been lost on the STUDENT part of student-athlete.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
01-16-2011, 10:04 PM
EXACTLY. its not about the good of the athletes its peoples selfish reasons to see college players stay longer. People who argue against younger players entering the NFL have one reason, and one reason alone: They like college football and don't want more players leaving sooner. It's not debatable that some players could play in the NFL prior to being 3 years out of high school. It's fact. The only reason someone would argue otherwise is the previously mentioned agenda.

PossibleCabbage
01-16-2011, 10:07 PM
People who argue against younger players entering the NFL have one reason, and one reason alone: They like college football and don't want more players leaving sooner. It's not debatable that some players could play in the NFL prior to being 3 years out of high school. It's fact. The only reason someone would argue otherwise is the previously mentioned agenda.

Is it also not possible that the NFL has determined that while some players 2 years in college would be ready to go pro, the vast majority of true sophomores that believe that they are ready for the NFL are incorrect in this belief. Considering that coming out too early, being ineffective, and ending up cut in a roster crunch in a couple of years can effectively end a promising player's career, to say nothing of players who sacrifice their eligibility and are not even drafted. Couldn't you also then say that the NFL preventing players who are not yet ready from losing their eligibility, is actually doing them a favor?

I mean, certainly you could write a rule whereby there can be an exception for *some* 2nd year players to enter the draft, say with the approval of all 32 teams, what possible reason would the league have for doing it? It just makes the process more complicated, and the number of players who go back to school for a year and "get better" or "expose flaws that otherwise would not have been apparent until they got to the NFL" (both of which are things the league wants to see) is significantly greater than the number of players who suffer career threatening injuries after going back for a year.

Whether or not it should change, it's not going to since the NFL has no reason to change the rule. That should really be the end of the discussion.

Any arguments for allowing players only 2 years out of HS to enter the draft should be phrased not in terms of "guys are ready" or "the NCAA is unfair to athletes" but in terms of "what the league stands to gain by changing the rule."

fenikz
01-20-2011, 04:02 AM
I don't get this whole playing for free BS, do you people not realize how expensive college is? Especially since a ton of these guys are going out of state, they are basically making a 50k salary(ASU pricing) for playing a sport and I'm sure there are even more expensive schools out there

AntoinCD
01-20-2011, 04:16 AM
I personally dont feel they should be given the option to play in the NFL. Realistically, how many true sophomores have the maturity and physical makeup to go straight into the NFL? Very few IMO. With the whole crackdown at the minute over player safety etc, I dont see how a 19 year old man should be able to go against seasoned, conditioned veterans.

Sure there will be exceptions where players could make the transition. Julio Jones had the physicality and by all accounts the maturity levels to go up against NFL CBs last year, however he is one of the few and doesn't play in a physical position. Can the NFL draw up two different rules for different positions? Of course not.

Sure if you're a WR or CB you could make the jump if necessary. But how many 19 year old OG propsects would be ready to take on Haloti Ngata?

Halsey
01-20-2011, 04:18 AM
Too many players are not getting an education because they are not going to a school to get educated. The schools do not care if they're getting an education because they only care about the semi-pro football team on campus. The athletes should be held to the same academic standards as other students and football should not be the main reason they are on campus. Players who just want to play football and not go to school should be free to do so. The NFL could easily make a 'NFL Junior League' if it didn't want under 20 players playing in the NFL. Players in the Junior League could be paid whatever their market value is and could focus on football. Colleges could still have football teams without running them like for-profit corporations. Hockey, soccer, baseball, etc are run that way. Why should football be different?

AntoinCD
01-20-2011, 04:24 AM
Too many players are not getting an education because they are not going to a school to get educated. The schools do not care if they're getting an education because they only care about the semi-pro football team on campus. The athletes should be held to the same academic standards as other students and football should not be the main reason they are on campus. Players who just want to play football and not go to school should be free to do so. The NFL could easily make a 'NFL Junior League' if it didn't want under 20 players playing in the NFL. Players in the Junior League could be paid whatever their market value is and could focus on football. Colleges could still have football teams without running them like for-profit corporations. Hockey, soccer, baseball, etc are run that way. Why should football be different?

For the most part, the best players would go straight to the 'NFL Junior League' instead of college then. Thus the money colleges are getting now for producing a top quality sporting season would be drastically reduced. There is no way they would allow this to happen.

jtice2003
01-20-2011, 11:50 PM
Few and far between exceptions. crabtree could have made about the same splash by now if he would have come out after his freshman year, adrian peterson probably after his sophomore year. just sayin.