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View Full Version : '11 Draft Discussion - Defensive Ends


TACKLE
01-14-2011, 06:30 PM
These threads were a big success last year and hopefully they will do just as well the second time around. I'll make one for each position group. Each position will come out progressively over the next couple weeks. Now seems like a good time as all the underclassmen have decided and Senior Bowl is just around the corner.



Here's a wide open thread to discuss this years Defensive End class. Post any thoughts or opinions on the DE's: your rankings, who's underrated, who's overrated, break out prospects, sleepers, best fits, etc. This is the place to break down the 2011 DE class.

RealityCheck
01-14-2011, 06:38 PM
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/625628/robert-quinn-p1.jpg



















<3

bullg8rdaddy
01-14-2011, 06:40 PM
1. Bowers
2. Quinn
3. Kerrigan
4. Smith


















5. Everybody else, IMO

TACKLE
01-14-2011, 07:02 PM
JJ Watt deserves to be considered among the elite DE's in this class right alongside Bowers and Quinn.

dannyz
01-14-2011, 07:10 PM
I think Quinn will be the best from this Class.

Day One Pick
01-14-2011, 07:12 PM
1. Da'Quan Bowers, 6-4, 278, Clemson*

2. Robert Quinn, 6-5, 256, North Carolina*

3. Cameron Heyward, 6-6, 287, Ohio State

4. Adrian Clayborn, 6-3, 282, Iowa

5. Justin Houston, 6-3, 260, Georgia *

6. Ryan Kerrigan, 6-4, 263, Purdue

7. Cameron Jordan, 6-4, 285, California

8. Aldon Smith, 6-5, 255, Missouri#

9. J.J. Watt, 6-6, 292, Wisconsin*

10. Jabaal Sheard, 6-4, 260, Pitt

Buc Baller12
01-14-2011, 09:24 PM
I <3 quinn

superman8456
01-14-2011, 09:26 PM
I want Romeus to the Eagles late in the draft.

Will he be ready for Pitt's pro day?

I don't know why anybody would touch Quinn in the first round when he hasn't played football in a year. This was my same problem with Dez Bryant, but he actually saw a couple games.

DBNYDP
01-14-2011, 09:27 PM
Can we clarify the topic?
Defensive Ends are pretty broad, maybe make it 3-4 or 4-3?

PossibleCabbage
01-14-2011, 09:32 PM
Can we clarify the topic?
Defensive Ends are pretty broad, maybe make it 3-4 or 4-3?

Probably worth having two threads here, absolutely worth having two threads for OLB. The problem may be that overlap between your 5-tech DEs and your DTs is pretty good. "How to separate the 3-4 and the 4-3 positions" is an open problem in draftnikdom, increasingly problematic since it seems that like half the league has a 3-4 now.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-14-2011, 10:11 PM
Cameron Jordan is going to go very high.

He is awfully good.

TACKLE
01-14-2011, 10:15 PM
Can we clarify the topic?
Defensive Ends are pretty broad, maybe make it 3-4 or 4-3?

I could but I don't think its too necessary. It doesn't need to be too specific. There's nothing here holding you back from ranking/discussing guys in who fit in a 3-4 or 4-3. I guess there could be some overlap into the DT and OLB threads but honestly that's not that big of a concern imo. Also, this class in particular is a little different in that fact that there are more DE's who can play in the 4-3 and the 3-4 opposed to having more tall DT's who'll be moved to the 5-technique.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
01-14-2011, 10:18 PM
Allen Bailey seems like the most interesting.

Either people really like him or hate him. Add the fact he's a tweener makes him an even bigger enigma.

SenorGato
01-14-2011, 10:49 PM
I want Romeus to the Eagles late in the draft.

Will he be ready for Pitt's pro day?

I don't know why anybody would touch Quinn in the first round when he hasn't played football in a year. This was my same problem with Dez Bryant, but he actually saw a couple games.

Iunno about you, but I thought Dez Bryant was awesome and just hitting a groove when he went down.

That said, here's hoping he falls.

bullg8rdaddy
01-14-2011, 11:43 PM
JJ Watt deserves to be considered among the elite DE's in this class right alongside Bowers and Quinn.

Agreed. My bad.

TACKLE
01-15-2011, 01:50 AM
How do you guys feel about Cameron Jordan's ability to be a LE in a 4-3? I know he's best suited for a 3-4 but he's played some DE in a 4-3 at Cal and played it well.

ellsy82
01-15-2011, 01:53 AM
Gee...don't you think this DE class should be split up a bit?

3-4
Bowers
Heyward
Watt
Clayborn
Jordan

4-3
Quinn
Smith
Romeus
Beal
Kerrigan

ellsy82
01-15-2011, 01:57 AM
How do you guys feel about Cameron Jordan's ability to be a LE in a 4-3? I know he's best suited for a 3-4 but he's played some DE in a 4-3 at Cal and played it well.

I think he's more than capable. Tho, I think the best DE in this draft for a 4-3 is Quinn or Romeus (despite his surgery).

SenorGato
01-15-2011, 01:57 AM
How do you guys feel about Cameron Jordan's ability to be a LE in a 4-3? I know he's best suited for a 3-4 but he's played some DE in a 4-3 at Cal and played it well.

He'd do very well there. I've made the comparison to Shaun Ellis/Trevor Pryce for that reason.

Definitely one of the better prospects in this draft.

TACKLE
01-15-2011, 01:58 AM
Gee...don't you think this DE class should be split up a bit?

3-4
Bowers - definitely a pure 4-3 DE. Don't see him fitting in a 3-4 at all
Heyward
Watt - can easily play DE in both a 30 and 40 front
Clayborn - same as above
Jordan - has experience playing every position on the D-Line. Is best suited for the 3-4 but could also be a DE or DT in a 4-3.

4-3
Quinn
Smith
Romeus
Beal
Kerrigan

Response in bold.

I don't think the line between 3-4 and 4-3 players is quite as definitive as you're making it out to be.


He'd do very well there. I've made the comparison to Shaun Ellis/Trevor Pryce for that reason.

Definitely one of the better prospects in this draft.

Ya I like those comparisons. Both big, versatile, athletic guys who have had a lot of success as a LE in both 30 and 40 fronts.

ellsy82
01-15-2011, 02:02 AM
Response in bold.

I don't think the line between 3-4 and 4-3 players is quite as definitive as you're making it out to be.




Ya I like those comparisons. Both big, versatile, athletic guys who have had a lot of success as a LE in both 30 and 40 fronts.

There we disagree. It is quite definitive in my book.

ellsy82
01-15-2011, 02:05 AM
I see Heyward and Clayborn as the only 3-4 DEs that excite me in this draft. Everyone else is a waste of a draft spot in the first round.

ellsy82
01-15-2011, 02:06 AM
Barely even sure about Clayborn.

SenorGato
01-15-2011, 02:09 AM
I don't think Clayborn is a 3-4 DL. Not big enough or stout enough now, and not sure it'd do him well to put on the weight. Christian Ballard his teammate is bigger and a better athlete...guy doesn't move like a 300 pounder.

TACKLE
01-15-2011, 02:10 AM
There we disagree. It is quite definitive in my book.

That's fine.

There's also more 3-4/4-3 tweeners at end such as Allen Bailey, Christian Ballard and Pernell McPhee. I mentioned this above but this class is unique because in most years the 3-4 DE class is composed almost all of 6'3-6'5 DT's. This year, its largely built on guys who were 4-3 DE's in college who have the size to kick inside in the pros. But because they are 4-3 DE's, there's numerous guys will still be projected to play that position at the next level.

ellsy82
01-15-2011, 02:12 AM
Don't orgasm over Christian Ballard. He's not as good as you're betting on. Fair warning.

ellsy82
01-15-2011, 02:14 AM
That's fine.

There's also more 3-4/4-3 tweeners at end such as Allen Bailey, Christian Ballard and Pernell McPhee. I mentioned this above but this class is unique because in most years the 3-4 DE class is composed almost all of 6'3-6'5 DT's. This year, its largely built on guys who were 4-3 DE's in college who have the size to kick inside in the pros. But because they are 4-3 DE's, there's numerous guys will still be projected to play that position at the next level.

I hear that. Just fair warning. This draft is top heavy at 5 tech lineman...but it drops off like something crazy. That's all I'm sayin.

TACKLE
01-15-2011, 02:19 AM
I hear that. Just fair warning. This draft is top heavy at 5 tech lineman...but it drops off like something crazy. That's all I'm sayin.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that. After the first two rounds, the talent at DE takes a huge hit. All I'm saying is there's a lot crossover between DE's who can play in both 30 and 40 fronts.

ellsy82
01-15-2011, 02:21 AM
Go ahead and wipe Ballard off your list. He doesn't have it. Never did. At no position, 4-3 or 3-4 will Ballard ever be good.

SenorGato
01-15-2011, 02:33 AM
At best Ballard is my 4th best 3-4 DE, and that's based of size/athleticism. I do agree if you're trying to say that he doesn't play up to his size/strength as often as he should or could.

Texas Homer
01-15-2011, 06:10 AM
Don't sleep on Sam Acho. The dude's motor doesn't stop.

Matthew Jones
01-15-2011, 07:58 AM
Don't sleep on Sam Acho. The dude's motor doesn't stop.

Big fan of Acho, he'll likely be a second round pick if you ask me. I see him as a 3-4 rush linebacker at the next level.

Does anyone here think that Pernell McPhee could potentially be an oversized 3-4 linebacker instead of a five-technique? If he lost 10 pounds or so, he'd be at a McGinest-like 6'4" 275.

RealityCheck
01-15-2011, 08:05 AM
Ballard is probably the worst player on Iowa's DL...

JHL6719
01-15-2011, 08:07 AM
Big fan of Acho, he'll likely be a second round pick if you ask me. I see him as a 3-4 rush linebacker at the next level.

Does anyone here think that Pernell McPhee could potentially be an oversized 3-4 linebacker instead of a five-technique? If he lost 10 pounds or so, he'd be at a McGinest-like 6'4" 275.


I've always thought that about McPhee too. He's not necessarily a "freak" athlete for his size, but it's just a tick below that.

I think it's an interesting question, and I'll be curious to see if any teams work him out at in some linebacker drills just to find out for themselves. Maybe see if he can shed 10-15 pounds and be perhaps be a McGinnest/Chris Slade type linebacker in a 3-4.

herkyhawkeye
01-15-2011, 08:42 PM
Ballard is probably the worst player on Iowa's DL...

BWAHAAHAHAHAHAAHa. This comment is pure false. Ballard is easily the biggest and most athletic Dlinemen Iowa had this season. For as overhyped as Iowas line was this year, Ballard was the only one of the four that ever got even remotely close to living up to it.

Clayborn if he wants to work hard and get back in the right state of mind, He will be a stud for some team. This year he wasnt. He gained weight, Became full of himself, and was out of shape for much of the season. He gave up on plays multiple times a game and is a very poor tackler. Very risky propsect because the guy has it but you dont know if he will revert back to his Junior season form. Bigtime hit or miss NFL prospect.

Klug does not have the size at DT or speed at DE to do well in the nfl. If Mitch King cant succeed with the size disadvantage, Klug wont.

Binns will be a senior next year and is good but not on the level of the other 3 dlinemen or Mike Daniels who rotated off the bench. Binns definitely has some very good potential for sure though.

Heres what you will get from Ballard

1. Great Size - 6'5 305 with plenty of room to grow. Big Frame
2. Elite Athleticism- His combine numbers will be eyepopping. Very fast for a man of his size and a bigtime vertical. Hes a TE in a DT body. In fact was a 4 star TE out of HS at 280 lbs.
3. Versatility- He can play any DL position in the nfl. You almost feel bad for him because Iowa moved him around a lot and he was pretty new to the dline when he got to college. Heplayed both DT and DE.

Hes a run plugger, Has great lateral movement, pure tackler, and can get to the QB.

The only real knock ontheguy is he still needs to work on the pass rush but again, He never was able to settle at one position on Iowas dline and he didnt get a chance to learn the position in high school. He has all the tools to be a very successful nfl dlinemen. Safer pick than Clayborn IMO and I have a invested interest being a hawkeye in both succeeding. If he can develop his pass rush a bit better, He will be a monster.

He was the BEST DL for Iowa this year.

PossibleCabbage
01-15-2011, 09:13 PM
Saying that Ballard wouldn't be useful to an NFL team as a 5-tech also underestimates the fact that 3-4 teams rotate their 5-techs quite a bit. You generally dress 5 DL for a 3-4, starting NT and 2 DEs, a swing guy who can fill in for the NT on a few plays or play 5-tech, and a rotation 5-tech (frequently a guy who is more of a specialist than the starters, be it as a pass-rusher , a run-stuffer, or just a young guy who's really strong who has relatively little tread on his tire.)

Ballard is worth a rotation spot in a 3-4 DL, unless a team already has a really strong group of big men.

Docta
01-15-2011, 10:55 PM
After seeing Haynes, Adams, and Maybin not pan out in the past few years, wouldn't you be cautious in drafting DE's? Bowers looks like the risky one out of the bunch.

bullg8rdaddy
01-15-2011, 11:01 PM
Clayborn if he wants to work hard and get back in the right state of mind, He will be a stud for some team. This year he wasnt. He gained weight, Became full of himself, and was out of shape for much of the season. He gave up on plays multiple times a game and is a very poor tackler. Very risky propsect because the guy has it but you dont know if he will revert back to his Junior season form. Bigtime hit or miss NFL prospect.


Glad I only needed to watch the bowl game to come to the same conclusion. lol

No disrespect to Iowa or it's team.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-15-2011, 11:45 PM
Is Bruce Irvin staying in school? I know he's slight but the guy can play

SenorGato
01-15-2011, 11:55 PM
BWAHAAHAHAHAHAAHa. This comment is pure false. Ballard is easily the biggest and most athletic Dlinemen Iowa had this season. For as overhyped as Iowas line was this year, Ballard was the only one of the four that ever got even remotely close to living up to it.

Clayborn if he wants to work hard and get back in the right state of mind, He will be a stud for some team. This year he wasnt. He gained weight, Became full of himself, and was out of shape for much of the season. He gave up on plays multiple times a game and is a very poor tackler. Very risky propsect because the guy has it but you dont know if he will revert back to his Junior season form. Bigtime hit or miss NFL prospect.

Klug does not have the size at DT or speed at DE to do well in the nfl. If Mitch King cant succeed with the size disadvantage, Klug wont.

Binns will be a senior next year and is good but not on the level of the other 3 dlinemen or Mike Daniels who rotated off the bench. Binns definitely has some very good potential for sure though.

Heres what you will get from Ballard

1. Great Size - 6'5 305 with plenty of room to grow. Big Frame
2. Elite Athleticism- His combine numbers will be eyepopping. Very fast for a man of his size and a bigtime vertical. Hes a TE in a DT body. In fact was a 4 star TE out of HS at 280 lbs.
3. Versatility- He can play any DL position in the nfl. You almost feel bad for him because Iowa moved him around a lot and he was pretty new to the dline when he got to college. Heplayed both DT and DE.

Hes a run plugger, Has great lateral movement, pure tackler, and can get to the QB.

The only real knock ontheguy is he still needs to work on the pass rush but again, He never was able to settle at one position on Iowas dline and he didnt get a chance to learn the position in high school. He has all the tools to be a very successful nfl dlinemen. Safer pick than Clayborn IMO and I have a invested interest being a hawkeye in both succeeding. If he can develop his pass rush a bit better, He will be a monster.

He was the BEST DL for Iowa this year.

I think this about him too. Also, the guys he's behind are Dareus, Heyward, and Jordan who are legit 1st round picks anyway. Ballard might sneak in at the end of the first to the Patriots/Steelers/Jets/Ravens area of the draft. His athleticism is extraordinary for a 300 pounder. Plus he's a Ferentz player at Iowa...which I randomly hand out imaginary points for.

jrdrylie
01-16-2011, 12:08 AM
I think Cam Heyward's stellar Sugar Bowl is going to put him back in the top-15 range, maybe as high as Washington. He'll end up as the best 5 tech in this draft. And I think Ryan Kerrigan is the safest pick in the draft. He may never be an All-Pro, but i think a team like Jacksonville plugs him in right away and he is a ten sack a year guy for a decade.

SenorGato
01-16-2011, 12:21 AM
^^ Cameron Heyward = The mf'ing man in this draft. Best 3-4 DE prospect in a while. I think he could go top 10 just because of how meh this draft is...think Cleveland wouldn't like to add him to the DL? Or yea...Washington.

jrdrylie
01-16-2011, 12:29 AM
^^ Cameron Heyward = The mf'ing man in this draft. Best 3-4 DE prospect in a while. I think he could go top 10 just because of how meh this draft is...think Cleveland wouldn't like to add him to the DL? Or yea...Washington.

If Cleveland doesn't go with Julio Jones, I definitely think Heyward could go there. The crazy thing is that Fairley, Bowers, Quinn, Dareus, Heyward, Kerrigan, and Watts could all go top 10. Six or seven defensive lineman that early, along with probably five more later in the first round makes this the best D-Lins class I can remember.

RaiderNation
01-16-2011, 04:28 PM
1 Bowers
2 Quinn
3 Dareus
4 Jordan
5 Watt/Heyward

TACKLE
01-16-2011, 05:33 PM
What do you guys think of Justin Houston as a 4-3 DE? He plays OLB in a 3-4 for Georgia but also lines up in a 3-point stance a lot. IIRC, he played DE prior to Georgia's move to a 3-4. He's listed at 6'3 260 and has shown impressive strength at the point of attack. With the lack of edge rushers suited for the 4-3, do you think 4-3 teams will look at him?

703SKINS202
01-16-2011, 07:22 PM
Is Bruce Irvin staying in school? I know he's slight but the guy can play
He's staying in school. Dude is a natural pass rusher from the LB position I just don't know if he can cut it in the nfl at his size. Would need to gain weight but that would cause him to play a lot slower. At this point he's a one trick pony but a very good one at that. Will be interesting to see how his senior season goes. I don't expect him to gain weight though because 235 is his preferred playing weight.

JustDezIT
01-16-2011, 07:34 PM
Cam Jordan will be the best defensive linemen in this class after Fairley.

dannyz
01-19-2011, 10:36 PM
What are the Chances that if Robert Quinn comes to the Combine looking Great and has a Mario Williams Show? Could he be in contention of the 1ST Pick?

Cheesus
01-20-2011, 08:22 AM
Quinn does not look 6'5, 270 in his videos. What will he likely weigh in as, 250?

AntoinCD
01-20-2011, 08:37 AM
It's really which kind of player you prefer at the top. Personally I prefer Dareus as he's more scheme versatile, but players like Bowers etc arent too far behind. After that this 5 technique class is absolutely sick. 6 or 7 possible first rounders is definitely not out of the question.

Fred Savage
01-20-2011, 03:12 PM
Aldon Smith is the man. Hopefully the Lions nab him at #13. Him and Suh would be beastly for years to come.

HorusKing
01-20-2011, 03:19 PM
I love Allen Bailey the kid is a football player and I think his versatility makes him great plus he is an athletic Freak at DE he would be a great fit in Tampa.

K Train
01-20-2011, 03:22 PM
i like bailey alot, but i think at this point hes more of an athlete than a football player. i think he could be a beast but hes a raw athlete that scouts cant even decide on a position for