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JFLO
01-15-2011, 08:12 PM
Okay, first post in awhile, been super busy but here are my Top 10 positional rankings and Top 64 Players of the 2011 class so far, Pre-Senior Bowl.

Any and all questions or comments are welcome, thanks.

Quarterback

1. Blaine Gabbert // Missouri
2. Ryan Mallett // Arkansas
3. Cameron Newton // Auburn
4. Jake Locker // Washington
5. Christian Ponder // Florida State
6. Pat Devlin // Delaware
7. Andy Dalton // Texas Christian
8. Colin Kaepernick // Nevada
9. Greg McElroy // Alabama
10. Ricky Stanzi // Iowa

Running Back

1. Mikel LeShoure // Illinois
2. Mark Ingram // Alabama
3. Daniel Thomas // Kansas State
4. Demarco Murray // Oklahoma
5. Ryan Williams // Virginia Tech
6. Kendall Hunter // Oklahoma State
7. Delone Carter // Syracuse
8. Jordan Todman // Connecticut
9. Dion Lewis // Pittsburgh
10. Noel Devine // West Virginia

Fullback (Top 6)

1. Stanley Havili // Southern California
2. Henry Hynoski // Pittsburgh
3. Owen Marecic // Stanford
4. Anthony Sherman // Connecticut
5. Shaun Chapas // Georgia
6. Charles Clay // Tulsa

Wide Receiver

1. A.J. Green // Georgia
2. Julio Jones // Alabama
3. Jonathan Baldwin // Pittsburgh
4. Leonard Hankerson // Miami (FL)
5. Torrey Smith // Maryland
6. Jerrel Jernigan // Troy
7. Randall Cobb // Kentucky
8. Tandon Doss // Indiana
9. Greg Little // North Carolina
10. Titus Young // Boise State

Tight End

1. Kyle Rudolph // Notre Dame
2. D.J. Williams // Arkansas
3. Luke Stocker // Tennessee
4. Lance Kendricks // Wisconsin
5. Charlie Gantt // Michigan State
6. Lee Smith // Marshall
7. Mike McNeill // Nebraska
8. Cameron Graham // Louisville
9. Robert Housler // Florida Atlantic
10. Konrad Reuland // Stanford


Offensive Tackle

1. Gabe Carimi // Wisconsin
2. Tyron Smith // Southern California
3. Nate Solder // Colorado
4. Anthony Castonzo // Boston College
5. Derek Sherrod // Mississippi State
6. Demarcus Love // Arkansas
7. James Brewer // Indiana
8. Chris Hairston // Clemson
9. Lee Ziemba // Auburn
10. Derek Newton // Arkansas State


Interior Lineman

1. Mike Pouncey // Florida
2. Rodney Hudson // Florida State
3. Ben Ijalana // Villanova
4. Marcus Cannon // Texas Christian
5. Stefen Wisniewski // Penn State
6. Clint Boling // Georgia
7. Jason Pinkston // Pittsburgh
8. Orlando Franklin // Miami (FL)
9. Kris O’Dowd // Southern California
10. John Moffitt // Wisconsin

Defensive End

1. Da’Quan Bowers // Clemson
2. Robert Quinn // North Carolina
3. Ryan Kerrigan // Purdue
4. Cameron Jordan // California
5. Aldon Smith // Missouri
6. Adrian Clayborn // Iowa
7. Cameron Heyward // Ohio State
8. J.J. Watt // Wisconsin
9. Sam Acho // Texas
10. Pernell McPhee // Mississippi State

Defensive Tackle

1. Nick Fairley // Auburn
2. Marcell Dareus // Alabama
3. Stephen Paea // Oregon State
4. Corey Liuget // Illinois
5. Allen Bailey // Miami (FL)
6. Muhammad Wilkerson // Temple
7. Drake Nevis // Louisiana State
8. Jurrell Casey // Southern California
9. Marvin Austin // North Carolina
10. Jerrell Powe // Ole Miss

Outside Linebacker

1. Von Miller // Texas A&M
2. Akeem Ayers // UCLA
3. Justin Houston // Georgia
4. Bruce Carter // North Carolina
5. Mark Herzlich // Boston College
6. Jeremy Beal // Oklahoma
7. Wayne Daniels // Texas Christian
8. Mason Foster // Washington
9. Dontay Moch // Nevada
10. K.J. Wright // Mississippi State

Inside Linebacker

1. Martez Wilson // Illinois
2. Quan Sturdivant // North Carolina
3. Greg Jones // Michigan State
4. Kelvin Sheppard // Louisiana State
5. Josh Bynes // Auburn
6. Nate Irving // North Carolina State
7. Colin McCarthy // Miami (FL)
8. Casey Matthews // Oregon
9. Alex Wujciak // Maryland
10. Mike Mohamed // California


Cornerback

1. Patrick Peterson // Louisiana State
2. Prince Amukamara // Nebraska
3. Jimmy Smith // Colorado
4. Brandon Harris // Miami (FL)
5. Aaron Williams // Texas
6. Brandon Burton // Utah
7. Johnny Patrick // Louisville
8. Curtis Brown // Texas
9. Ras-I Dowling // Virginia
10. Davon House // New Mexico State

Safety

1. Rahim Moore // UCLA
2. Quinton Carter // Oklahoma
3. Robert Sands // West Virginia
4. Deunta Williams // North Carolina
5. Tyler Sash // Iowa
6. DeAndre McDaniel // Clemson
7. Ahmad Black // Florida
8. Jaiquawn Jarrett // Temple
9. Will Hill // Florida
10. Eric Hagg // Nebraska


Top 64 Players of 2011 NFL Draft

1. Patrick Peterson // Defensive Back // Louisiana State
2. Prince Amukamara // Defensive Back // Nebraska
3. Nick Fairley // Defensive Tackle // Auburn
4. A.J. Green // Wide Receiver // Georgia
5. Da’Quan Bowers // Defensive End // Clemson
6. Marcell Dareus // Defensive Tackle // Alabama
7. Robert Quinn // Defensive End // North Carolina
8. Ryan Kerrigan // Defensive End // Purdue
9. Julio Jones // Wide Receiver // Alabama
10. Blaine Gabbert // Quarterback // Missouri
11. Cameron Jordan // Defensive End // California
12. Von Miller // Outside Linebacker // Texas A&M
13. Gabe Carimi // Offensive Tackle // Wisconsin
14. Ryan Mallett // Quarterback // Arkansas
15. Tyron Smith // Offensive Tackle // Southern California
16. Stephen Paea // Defensive Tackle // Oregon State
17. Martez Wilson // Inside Linebacker // Illinois
18. Akeem Ayers // Outside Linebacker // UCLA
19. Cameron Newton // Quarterback // Auburn
20. Nate Solder // Offensive Tackle // Colorado
21. Aldon Smith // Defensive End // Missouri
22. Adrian Clayborn // Defensive End // Iowa
23. Justin Houston // Outside Linebacker // Georgia
24. Cameron Heyward // Defensive End // Ohio State
25. Corey Liuget // Defensive Tackle // Illinois
26. Mikel LeShoure // Running Back // Illinois
27. Mike Pouncey // Interior Lineman // Florida
28. Mark Ingram // Running Back // Alabama
29. Jake Locker // Quarterback // Washington
30. Allen Bailey // Defensive Tackle // Miami (FL)
31. Anthony Castonzo // Offensive Tackle // Boston College
32. Kyle Rudolph // Tight End // Notre Dame
33. Derek Sherrod // Offensive Tackle // Mississippi State
34. Rahim Moore // Safety // UCLA
35. J.J. Watt // Defensive End // Wisconsin
36. Quinton Carter // Safety // Oklahoma
37. Jimmy Smith // Defensive Back // Colorado
38. Jonathan Baldwin // Wide Receiver // Pittsburgh
39. Brandon Harris // Cornerback // Miami (FL)
40. Muhammad Wilkerson // Defensive Tackle // Temple
41. Aaron Williams // Cornerback // Texas
42. Drake Nevis // Defensive Tackle // Louisiana State
43. Robert Sands // Safety // West Virginia
44. Leonard Hankerson // Wide Receiver // Miami (FL)
45. Demarcus Love // Offensive Tackle // Arkansas
46. Daniel Thomas // Running Back // Kansas State
47. Demarco Murray // Running Back // Oklahoma
48. Rodney Hudson // Interior Lineman // Florida State
49. Bruce Carter // Outside Linebacker // North Carolina
50. Ryan Williams // Running Back // Virginia Tech
51. Quan Sturdivant // Inside Linebacker // North Carolina
52. Ben Ijalana // Interior Lineman // Villanova
53. Deunta Williams // Safety // North Carolina
54. Torrey Smith // Wide Receiver // Maryland
55. Brandon Burton // Cornerback // Utah
56. Marcus Cannon // Interior Lineman // Texas Christian
57. Sam Acho // Defensive End // Texas
58. D.J. Williams // Tight End // Arkansas
59. Stefen Wisniewski // Interior Lineman // Penn State
60. Greg Jones // Inside Linebacker // Michigan State
61. Jerrel Jernigan // Wide Receiver // Troy
62. Jurrell Casey // Defensive Tackle // Southern California
63. Kendall Hunter // Running Back // Oklahoma State
64. Christian Ponder // Quarterback // Florida State

xxxxxxxx
01-15-2011, 08:46 PM
Has anyone seen McElroy on his analysis on ESPN and stuff this past week?

I think the guy helped his stock on that alone. He made every ESPN analyst look absolutely ********, and while that isn't hard, he was very impressive.

princefielder28
01-15-2011, 11:04 PM
a fan of LeShoure being your #1 back

jrdrylie
01-16-2011, 12:33 AM
First thing that sticks out is how low you have Sherrod. I think he is the best Olineman in this draft and wouldn't be shocked to see him go to Detroit at 13.

JPP90
01-16-2011, 12:41 AM
You've got Dion Lewis from Pitt too high and Ill say that right now. When that guy runs at the Combine his stock is gonna plummet. Had a bad year, small and slow. I'm predicting 4.6, maybe 4.5. He isn't any faster than Delone Carter with a surgically repaired hip and Delone isn't a burner by any means. Dion will probably be the next Darius Walker...hyped college RB that declares, runs like sh1t and goes undrafted.

Day One Pick
01-16-2011, 07:26 AM
You've got Dion Lewis from Pitt too high and Ill say that right now. When that guy runs at the Combine his stock is gonna plummet. Had a bad year, small and slow. I'm predicting 4.6, maybe 4.5. He isn't any faster than Delone Carter with a surgically repaired hip and Delone isn't a burner by any means. Dion will probably be the next Darius Walker...hyped college RB that declares, runs like sh1t and goes undrafted.

I really disagree with all of that. Lewis won't get drafted any earlier than the 3rd round, but he'll be a steal. His skill set as a RB is better than any back in this class. When I say skill set, I'm talking about vision, quick feet, cutting ability, ect. Where he lacks in comparision to some of the other backs is physically. He's smaller and not as fast, but he's still in the 4.5's which is plenty fast enough for a RB. I'll predict a 4.53 out of him. Due to his size, that will probably scare some teams away (only because he's smallish), making a small part of what you said true. His running style is very, very similar to Barry Sanders. I'm not comparing the two, Sanders was in a completely different league, and much faster. But from a size and running style standpoint they are very similar. Lewis is a better prospect IMO than LeSean McCoy was.

JPP90
01-16-2011, 09:33 AM
Wish you a lot of luck on that limb. That skillset didn't do much for him this season in college so I highly doubt he's going to find NFL defenses any easier. As you pointed out, he's small and slow. The Barry Sanders reference is ridiculous..I'm gonna pretend that didn't even happen. And he can't sniff McCoy's jock as a prospect. Who he reminds me of the most is actually the former Pitt RB Larod Stephens Howling. A tad slower version of him. Howling has become a valuable KR...maybe that's where Dion finds himself. I've seen a lot of Dion though and he has his moments but Ray Graham stole his Kool-Aid this year.

Day One Pick
01-16-2011, 12:37 PM
Wish you a lot of luck on that limb. That skillset didn't do much for him this season in college so I highly doubt he's going to find NFL defenses any easier. As you pointed out, he's small and slow. The Barry Sanders reference is ridiculous..I'm gonna pretend that didn't even happen. And he can't sniff McCoy's jock as a prospect. Who he reminds me of the most is actually the former Pitt RB Larod Stephens Howling. A tad slower version of him. Howling has become a valuable KR...maybe that's where Dion finds himself. I've seen a lot of Dion though and he has his moments but Ray Graham stole his Kool-Aid this year.

What do you do to evaluate a player, simply look at the stat line? Dion Lewis ran behind an aweful Pitt offensive line this year and had a QB who didn't scare opposing defenses at all. Early in the year Pitt could hardly call a pass play because Sunseri wouldn't throw the ball, he stood there waiting to get sacked. All teams had to do was stop Lewis, and not allow too many hail mary's to be thrown to Jonathan Baldwin.

As for the Sanders reference, I only compared running styles. It's a good comparison, end of story. I trust you didn't see enough of either to be a judge. Also, you reference Lewis' size as a reason he won't be a good NFL player. He is almost the exact same size as Barry Sanders when he played at Oklahoma State. I believe he was 5-7, 203 entering the draft. Again, I'm not saying Lewis is the next Barry Sanders...

Pitt's defensive coordinator said in a radio interview I heard that Dion Lewis is by far the toughest Pitt RB to get down to the ground since he's been there.

FYI, a RB with 4.5 speed isn't considered slow.

JPP90
01-16-2011, 08:57 PM
What do you do to evaluate a player, simply look at the stat line? Dion Lewis ran behind an aweful Pitt offensive line this year and had a QB who didn't scare opposing defenses at all. Early in the year Pitt could hardly call a pass play because Sunseri wouldn't throw the ball, he stood there waiting to get sacked. All teams had to do was stop Lewis, and not allow too many hail mary's to be thrown to Jonathan Baldwin.

As for the Sanders reference, I only compared running styles. It's a good comparison, end of story. I trust you didn't see enough of either to be a judge. Also, you reference Lewis' size as a reason he won't be a good NFL player. He is almost the exact same size as Barry Sanders when he played at Oklahoma State. I believe he was 5-7, 203 entering the draft. Again, I'm not saying Lewis is the next Barry Sanders...

Pitt's defensive coordinator said in a radio interview I heard that Dion Lewis is by far the toughest Pitt RB to get down to the ground since he's been there.

FYI, a RB with 4.5 speed isn't considered slow.

Let's see...he doesn't have the size to run between the tackles or breakaway speed. Wasn't very productive as a junior, as a known commodity. By no means a "shifty" runner, doing away with your ridiculous Sanders reference...and apparently Bill Stull is so good a QB that he made all the difference in Dion Lewis' career. In the NFL, you better be prepared to make some of your own yards against good defenses or you won't make it off the bench. I don't see him as anything more than a spot backup, considering he doesn't stand out in any area. In reference to the speed thing, if you're a brute like Larry Johnson or Arian Foster, I absolutely agree. However if you're the size of Dion Lewis or Jordan Todman, no. I absolutely believe its critical for a small back to run a good 40 because they certainly aren't going to be shaking off anyone. The good smaller backs, MJD, CJ etc, have a shiftiness and burst to and through a hole. Lewis does not. He's a big back in a small backs body. Basically, a bad fit in the NFL just as much as a bad fit vs Utah.

Day One Pick
01-17-2011, 06:19 AM
Let's see...he doesn't have the size to run between the tackles or breakaway speed. Wasn't very productive as a junior, as a known commodity. By no means a "shifty" runner, doing away with your ridiculous Sanders reference...and apparently Bill Stull is so good a QB that he made all the difference in Dion Lewis' career. In the NFL, you better be prepared to make some of your own yards against good defenses or you won't make it off the bench. I don't see him as anything more than a spot backup, considering he doesn't stand out in any area. In reference to the speed thing, if you're a brute like Larry Johnson or Arian Foster, I absolutely agree. However if you're the size of Dion Lewis or Jordan Todman, no. I absolutely believe its critical for a small back to run a good 40 because they certainly aren't going to be shaking off anyone. The good smaller backs, MJD, CJ etc, have a shiftiness and burst to and through a hole. Lewis does not. He's a big back in a small backs body. Basically, a bad fit in the NFL just as much as a bad fit vs Utah.

You've obviously never watched him play to say he isn't "shifty". You must look at his stats (which were still good this year, just down from last year) and make your Judgement.

Actually Bill Stull had a very good year in '09. He was one of the most efficient passers in the country. As for the OL, they lost 4 starters from '09 and were aweful this year. Lewis so much of the time was getting hit in the backfield.

Explain Ray Rice. It was said he was too small and slow. I'm certain Lewis is faster than Rice. I'm saying 4.53 from Lewis at the combine, but I wouldn;t be shocked if he ended up around 4.49.

Question for you...Do you think it is best for a running back to run at full speed at all times?

Atleast go watch this so you can say you've atleast seen a few plays of Dion Lewis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCMGvFoNwLE&feature=related

JPP90
01-17-2011, 09:11 PM
Dion Lewis is nothing like Ray Rice. Unless you take into account they're both short. I'm perfectly agreeing to disagree on Lewis...if you think he'll still be a great prospect after the Combine, that's fine by me. Typically if your team decides to take carries away from you in college, doesn't make you a great NFL prospect. And he was playing like absolute garbage before Ray Graham was put into the lineup...who averaged nearly 2 full yards per carry than Lewis and overall outplayed him. And don't blame the line because you cannot oinpoint any 1 player that they lost along that line as being superior to their replacement. In fact, Jason Pinkston and Chris Jacobson, the best of the bunch, are still there. Don't blame the line, don't blame Tino Sunseri...Jordan Todman was superbly productive with a Division 2 level QB this year and while his line was solid overall, he had to make a lot of his own yards, and he did. A lot. Watch a replay of the BCS bowl game. Lewis would have done nothing but trip over his own feet against that defense. He needed a huge game against Cincy and one of the worst defemses in college football in the final week of the season to even have respectable numbers. You like him, I dont . Unless you're talking a situational back off the bench or a KR. Basically Larod. And you can find those guys in free agency.

Bills2083
01-17-2011, 10:04 PM
When do underclassmen have to declare by?

TACKLE
01-17-2011, 10:06 PM
When do underclassmen have to declare by?

The deadline has passed already. It was January 15th.

Bills2083
01-17-2011, 10:11 PM
The deadline has passed already. It was January 15th.

Oh, ok.
Thanks

Day One Pick
01-18-2011, 06:48 AM
Dion Lewis is nothing like Ray Rice. Unless you take into account they're both short. I'm perfectly agreeing to disagree on Lewis...if you think he'll still be a great prospect after the Combine, that's fine by me. Typically if your team decides to take carries away from you in college, doesn't make you a great NFL prospect. And he was playing like absolute garbage before Ray Graham was put into the lineup...who averaged nearly 2 full yards per carry than Lewis and overall outplayed him. And don't blame the line because you cannot oinpoint any 1 player that they lost along that line as being superior to their replacement. In fact, Jason Pinkston and Chris Jacobson, the best of the bunch, are still there. Don't blame the line, don't blame Tino Sunseri...Jordan Todman was superbly productive with a Division 2 level QB this year and while his line was solid overall, he had to make a lot of his own yards, and he did. A lot. Watch a replay of the BCS bowl game. Lewis would have done nothing but trip over his own feet against that defense. He needed a huge game against Cincy and one of the worst defemses in college football in the final week of the season to even have respectable numbers. You like him, I dont . Unless you're talking a situational back off the bench or a KR. Basically Larod. And you can find those guys in free agency.

Ray Rice was said to be too small and too slow. You are now saying the same thing about Lewis. Lewis is and faster, quicker, has better feet, and better vision than Rice...so yeah you're right they aren't alike.

I'm a Pitt fan, I don't miss a game. So don't tell me their offensive line was anywhere close to as good as last year. I see you plucked two names you've seen in draft rankings (Pinkston and Jacobson) and say they were the best of the bunch from last year. That's not the case. They lost guard Joe Thomas who logged 38 career starts at Pitt during his career, they lost center Rob Houser who was a junior college transfer and two year starter at Pitt (except while injured part of '09), and guard C.J. Davis who started 36 career games at Pitt. FYI, Chris Jacobson started one game in '09 (Meineke Car Care Bowl v.s. North Carolina). This year the Pitt had a combined 41 career starts among their offensive line (28 belonging to LT Jason Pinkston). Speaking of Pinkston, he's over-rated. I'm sure you've seen him ranked high by many people so you assume he's a very good player. From someone who's seen him play his whole career, I doubt he get's drafted. He's definetly not an NFL left tackle. He's a heavy legged waist bender with slow feet.

Also, you assume Pitt just simply took carries away from Dion Lewis. Yeah he lost carries, but primarily because he was injured. Ray Graham was a big part of Pitt's game plan in '09 averaging 7 touches per game. He got more touches this year, but it was because Lewis wasn't 100% not because Pitt lost faith in him.

If Lewis is such a bad player, how did he average 125 rush/rec yards per game (110 rushing) during his two year career at Pitt?

JPP90
01-18-2011, 09:53 AM
Oi..a Pitt fan. Nevermind bud. You're right, Lewis is better than Ray Rice, my bad.

brasho
01-18-2011, 12:04 PM
I really disagree with all of that. Lewis won't get drafted any earlier than the 3rd round, but he'll be a steal. His skill set as a RB is better than any back in this class. When I say skill set, I'm talking about vision, quick feet, cutting ability, ect. Where he lacks in comparision to some of the other backs is physically. He's smaller and not as fast, but he's still in the 4.5's which is plenty fast enough for a RB. I'll predict a 4.53 out of him. Due to his size, that will probably scare some teams away (only because he's smallish), making a small part of what you said true. His running style is very, very similar to Barry Sanders. I'm not comparing the two, Sanders was in a completely different league, and much faster. But from a size and running style standpoint they are very similar. Lewis is a better prospect IMO than LeSean McCoy was.

I don't think I've ever seen a RB compared to Barry Sanders that didn't totally suck in the NFL. I take being compared to Sanders as a total slam, BTW, because he is the only one that could get away with the style he ran with. Whether it be Bush, Reggie Brooks or the ton of other RBs that thought they could turn the NFL into Dance Dance Revolution, the NFL is a one-cut and run league and always will be.