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ThePudge
01-16-2011, 04:07 PM
My rankings have obviously changed quite drastically as roughly 10 Underclassmen have been stripped from my board and we've now gotten through the college bowl season. The next update will be after the Senior Bowl and changes will be influenced by East-West Shrine practices and the practices down in Mobile. I decided to try something new, as I created rankings for each 3-4 position and separated Safeties as Free or Strong. I didn't bother with Kickers/Punters, but along with Return Specialists, they'll be added after the Senior Bowl. I once again am going to separate this post into the following few parts for easy navigation:


I. Position Rankings
II. Big Board (Top 100)
III. 2012 Seniors (Top 10)
IV. Mock Draft (1 Round)


As always feedback is encouraged. By now you probably know that even if we disagree, I'm always willing to offer my take and explain where I'm coming from. Enjoy!

I. Positional Rankings

Quarterback
1. Cameron Newton – Auburn*
2. Jake Locker – Washington
3. Ryan Mallett – Arkansas*
4. Blaine Gabbert – Missouri*
5. Christian Ponder – Florida State
6. Andy Dalton – TCU
7. Ricky Stanzi – Iowa
8. Pat Devlin – Delaware
9. Collin Kaepernick – Nevada
10. Greg McElroy – Alabama
11. Tyrod Taylor – Virginia Tech
12. Nathan Enderle – Idaho
13. T.J. Yates – North Carolina
14. Jerrod Johnson – Texas A&M
15. Scott Tolzien – Wisconsin

Running Back
1. Mark Ingram – Alabama*
2. Mikel LeShoure – Illinois*
3. Shane Vereen – California*
4. Ryan Williams – Virginia Tech**
5. Jordan Todman – Connecticut*
6. DeMarco Murray – Oklahoma
7. Jacquizz Rodgers – Oregon State*
8. Kendall Hunter – Oklahoma State
9. Taiwan Jones – Eastern Washington*
10. Daniel Thomas – Kansas State
11. Delone Carter – Syracuse
12. Allen Bradford – USC
13. Graig Cooper - Miami
14. Dion Lewis – Pittsburgh*
15. Darren Evans – Virginia Tech*
16. Noel Devine – West Virginia
17. Bilal Powell - Louisville
18. Roy Helu – Nebraska
19. John Clay – Wisconsin*
20. Evan Royster – Penn State
21. Derrick Locke – Kentucky
22. Da’Rel Scott – Maryland
23. Mario Fannin – Auburn
24. Alex Green - Hawaii
25. Anthony Allen – Georgia Tech

Fullback
1. Stanley Havilii – USC
2. Henry Hynoski – Pittsburgh*
3. Owen Marecic – Stanford
4. Anthony Sherman – Connecticut
5. Keith Payne - Virginia
6. Preston Dial – Alabama (FB)
7. Shaun Chapas – Georgia
8. Charles Clay – Tulsa
9. Robert Hughes – Notre Dame
10. Brett Morse – Iowa

Wide Receiver
1. A.J. Green – Georgia*
2. Julio Jones – Alabama*
3. Randall Cobb – Kentucky*
4. Torrey Smith – Maryland*
5. Jonathan Baldwin – Pittsburgh*
6. Leonard Hankerson – Miami
7. Jerrel Jernigan – Troy
8. Titus Young – Boise State
9. Greg Little – North Carolina
10. Ronald Johnson – USC
11. Dwayne Harris – East Carolina
12. Matt Sczcur – Villanova
13. Niles Paul - Nebraska
14. Tandon Doss – Indiana*
15. Greg Salas - Hawaii
16. Edmund Gates – Abilene Christian
17. Terrance Tolliver - LSU
18. Austin Pettis – Boise State
19. Vincent Brown – San Diego State
20. Derrell Johnson-Koulianos – Iowa
21. Armon Binns – Cincinnati
22. Cecil Shorts – Mount Union
23. Jeremy Kerley – TCU
24. Mark Dell – Michigan State
25. DeAndre Brown – Southern Miss*
26. Jeff Maehl – Oregon
27. Jamel Hamler – Fresno State*
28. Kealoha Pilares – Hawaii
29. Tori Gurley – South Carolina*
30. Dane Sanzenbacher – Ohio State

Tight End
1. Kyle Rudolph – Notre Dame*
2. Lance Kendricks – Wisconsin
3. D.J. Williams – Arkansas
4. Luke Stocker – Tennessee
5. Weslye Saunders – South Carolina
6. Charlie Gantt – Michigan State
7. Mike McNeill – Nebraska
8. Lee Smith – Marshall
9. Julius Thomas – Portland State
10. Zack Pianalto – North Carolina
11. Virgil Green – Nevada
12. Allen Reisner – Iowa
13. Andre Smith – Virginia Tech
14. Rob Housler – Florida Atlantic
15. Jordan Cameron - USC

Offensive Tackle
1. Tyron Smith – USC**
2. Anthony Castonzo – Boston College
3. Derek Sherrod – Mississippi State
4. Nate Solder – Colorado
5. Marcus Cannon – TCU
6. Gabe Carimi – Wisconsin
7. DeMarcus Love – Arkansas (OG)
8. Orlando Franklin – Miami (OG)
9. Jason Pinkston – Pittsburgh
10. Lee Ziemba - Auburn
11. Chris Hariston – Clemson
12. Marcus Glibert - Florida
13. Curt Porter – Jacksonville State
14. James Brewer – Indiana
15. Kyle Hix - Texas

Offensive Guard
1. Mike Pouncey – Florida
2. Ben Ijalana – Villanova
3. Danny Watkins – Baylor (OT)
4. John Moffitt – Wisconsin
5. Keith Williams – Nebraska
6. Clint Boling – Georgia (OT)
7. Stephen Schilling – Michigan
8. James Carpenter - Alabama
9. Andrew Jackson – Fresno State
10. Justin Boren – Ohio State
11. Zachary Hurd – Connecticut
12. Bryant Browning – Ohio State
13. Caleb Schlauderaff – Utah
14. Zachary Williams – Washington State (C)
15. Joseph Barksdale – LSU (OT)

Center
1. Stefan Wisniewski – Penn State
2. Rodney Hudson – Florida State (OG)
3. Kristofer O’Dowd – USC
4. Tim Barnes – Missouri
5. Alex Linnenkohl – Oregon State
6. Brandon Fusco – Slippery Rock
7. Zane Taylor – Utah
8. Colin Baxter – Alabama
9. Jake Kirkpatrick - TCU
10. Ryan Bartholomew – Syracuse

Defensive End
1. Da’Quan Bowers – Clemson*
2. Robert Quinn – North Carolina*
3. Ryan Kerrigan – Purdue
4. J.J. Watt – Wisconsin*
5. Cameron Jordan – California (DT)
6. Allen Bailey – Miami
7. Adrian Clayborn – Iowa
8. Aldon Smith – Missouri**
9. Greg Romeus - Pittsburgh
10. Cameron Heyward - Ohio State (DT)
11. Christian Ballard – Iowa (DT)
12. Jeremy Beal – Oklahoma
13. Jabaal Sheard – Pittsburgh
14. Sam Acho – Texas
15. Pernell McPhee – Mississippi State
16. Pierre Allen – Nebraska
17. Cliff Matthews – South Carolina
18. Ricky Elmore – Arizona
19. Zane Parr – Virginia*
20. Steven Friday - Virginia Tech

3-4 Defensive End (5-Tech)
1. Marcell Dareus – Alabama*
2. Cameron Heyward – Ohio State
3. Cameron Jordan – California
4. J.J. Watt – DE – Wisconsin*
5. Christian Ballard – Iowa
6. Adrian Clayborn – Iowa
7. Allen Bailey - Miami
8. Lawrence Guy – Arizona State
9. Muhammed Wilkerson – Temple
10. Pernell McPhee – Mississippi State

Defensive Tackle
1. Nick Fairley – Auburn*
2. Marcell Dareus - Alabama* (DE)
3. Drake Nevis – LSU
4. Stephen Paea – Oregon State
5. Corey Liuget – Illinois*
6. Muhammed Wilkerson – Temple*
7. Jurrell Casey – USC*
8. Phil Taylor – Baylor
9. Lawrence Guy – Arizona State*
10. Jerrell Powe – Mississippi
11. Jarvis Jenkins – Clemson
12. Marvin Austin – North Carolina
13. Kenrick Ellis – Hampton
14. Sione Fua – Stanford
15. Ian Williams – Notre Dame

Nose Tackle
1. Stephen Paea – Oregon State
2. Phil Taylor – Baylor
3. Jerrell Powe – Mississippi
4. Kenrick Ellis – Hampton
5. Sione Fua – Stanford

3-4 Outside Linebacker
1. Robert Quinn – North Carolina*
2. Justin Houston – Georgia*
3. Von Miller – Texas A&M
4. Ryan Kerrigan – Purdue
5. Jeremy Beal - Oklahoma
6. Dontay Moch – Nevada
7. Aldon Smith – Missouri*
8. Tom Kaiser – Stanford*
9. Chris Carter – Fresno State
10. Brooks Reed - Arizona

Outside Linebacker
1. Akeem Ayers – UCLA*
2. Martez Wilson – Illinois*
3. Mason Foster – Washington (MLB)
4. Bruce Carter – North Carolina
5. Justin Houston – Georgia*
6. Von Miller – Texas A&M
7. Mark Herzlich – Boston College
8. K.J. Wright – Mississippi State
9. Ross Homas – Ohio State (MLB)
10. Lawrence Wilson – Connecticut (MLB)
11. Doug Hogue – Syracuse
12. Brian Rolle – Ohio State
13. Adrian Moten – Maryland
14. Quentin Davie – Northwestern
15. Wayne Daniels – TCU

3-4 Inside Linebacker
1. Akeem Ayers – UCLA*
2. Martez Wilson – Illinois*
3. Mark Herzlich – Boston College
4. Quan Sturdivant – North Carolina
5. K.J. Wright – Mississippi State
6. Greg Jones – Michigan State
7. Kelvin Sheppard - LSU
8. Chris White – Mississippi State
9. Josh Bynes – Auburn
10. Nate Irving – North Carolina State

Middle Linebacker
1. Quan Sturdivant – North Carolina
2. Greg Jones – Michigan State
3. Kelvin Sheppard – LSU (OLB)
4. Nate Irving – North Carolina State (OLB)
5. Colin McCarthy – Miami
6. Casey Matthews – Oregon
7. Chris White – Mississippi State
8. John Bynes – Auburn
9. Mike Mohammed - California
10. Alex Wujciak – Maryland

Cornerback
1. Patrick Peterson – LSU*
2. Prince Amukamara – Nebraska
3. Brandon Harris – Miami*
4. Jimmy Smith – Colorado
5. Aaron Williams – Texas*
6. Brandon Burton – Utah*
7. Ras-I Dowling – Virginia
8. Johnny Patrick – Louisville
9. Davon House – New Mexico State
10. Brandon Hogan – West Virginia
11. Curtis Brown – Texas
12. Chimdi Chekwa – Ohio State
13. Chris Rucker – Michigan State
14. Marcus Gilchrist – Clemson (FS)
15. Shareece Wright – USC
16. Kendric Burney – North Carolina
17. Rashad Carmichael – Virginia Tech
18. Korey Lindsey – Southern Illinois
19. Curtis Marsh – Utah State
20. Chykie Brown – Texas

Free Safety
1. Rahim Moore – UCLA*
2. Deunta Williams – North Carolina
3. Quinton Carter – Oklahoma
4. Robert Sands – West Virginia*
5. Jaiquawn Jarrett – Temple
6. Eugene Clifford – Tennessee State
7. Will Hill – Florida*
8. Jay Valai – Wisconsin
9. Tejay Johnson - TCU
10. Eric Hagg - Nebraska

Strong Safety
1. DeAndre McDaniel – Clemson
2. Ahmad Black – Florida
3. Jeron Johnson – Boise State
4. Tyler Sash – Iowa*
5. Jermale Hines – Ohio State
6. Joe Lefeged – Rutgers
7. Nate Williams – Washington
8. Justin Taplin-Ross – Utah
9. Duke Ihenacho – San Jose State
10. Shiloh Keo - Idaho


II. Big Board (Top 100)

1. A.J. Green – WR – Georgia*
2. Da’Quan Bowers – DE – Clemson*
3. Patrick Peterson – CB – LSU*
4. Cameron Newton – QB – Auburn*
5. Nick Fairley – DT – Auburn*
6. Julio Jones – WR – Alabama*
7. Marcell Dareus – DL – Alabama*
8. Robert Quinn – DE – North Carolina*
9. Prince Amukamara – CB – Nebraska
10. Ryan Kerrigan – DE – Purdue
11. Mark Ingram – RB – Alabama*
12. J.J. Watt – DE – Wisconsin*
13. Cameron Jordan – DE – California
14. Jake Locker – QB – Washington
15. Cameron Heyward – DE – Ohio State
16. Justin Houston – OLB – Georgia*
17. Ryan Mallett – QB – Arkansas*
18. Tyron Smith – OT – USC**
19. Akeem Ayers – LB – UCLA*
20. Anthony Castonzo – OT – Boston College
21. Kyle Rudolph – TE – Notre Dame*
22. Von Miller – OLB – Texas A&M
23. Blaine Gabbert – QB - Missouri
24. Derek Sherrod – OT – Mississippi State
25. Nate Solder – OT – Colorado
26. Brandon Harris – CB – Miami*
27. Allen Bailey – DE – Miami
28. Adrian Clayborn – DE – Iowa
29. Mikel LeShoure – RB – Illinois*
30. Martez Wilson – LB – Illinois*
31. Jimmy Smith – CB – Colorado
32. Randall Cobb – WR – Kentucky*
33. Marcus Cannon – OT – TCU
34. Gabe Carimi – OT – Wisconsin
35. Drake Nevis – DT – LSU
36. Stephen Paea – DT – Oregon State
37. Quan Sturdivant – ILB – North Carolina
38. Corey Liuget – DT – Illinois*
39. Torrey Smith – WR – Maryland*
40. Mason Foster – OLB – Washington
41. Rahim Moore – FS – UCLA*
42. Aaron Williams – CB – Texas*
43. Shane Vereen – RB – California*
44. Christian Ballard – DL – Iowa
45. Lance Kendricks – TE – Wisconsin
46. Ryan Williams – RB – Virginia Tech**
47. Bruce Carter – OLB – North Carolina
48. Jonathan Baldwin – WR – Pittsburgh*
49. Stefan Wisniewski – C – Penn State
50. Aldon Smith – DE – Missouri**

51. Mike Pouncey – OG - Florida
52. Muhammed Wilkerson – DT – Temple*
53. Jordan Todman – RB – Connecticut*
54. DeMarcus Love – OL - Arkansas
55. Leonard Hankerson – WR – Miami
56. Jerel Jernigan – WR – Troy
57. Orlando Franklin – OT - Miami
58. Deunta Williams – FS – North Carolina
59. Jurrell Casey – DT – USC*
60. Brandon Burton – CB – Utah*
61. DeAndre McDaniel – SS – Clemson
62. Greg Romeus – DE - Pittsburgh
63. D.J. Williams – TE – Arkansas
64. Jeremy Beal – DE - Oklahoma
65. Luke Stocker – TE – Tennessee
66. DeMarco Murray – RB – Oklahoma
67. Titus Young – WR – Boise State
68. Ben Ijalana – OG – Villanova
69. Mark Herzlich – LB – Boston College
70. Phil Taylor – NT – Baylor
71. Jabaal Sheard – DE - Pittsburgh
72. Dontay Moch – OLB – Nevada
73. Ras-I Dowling – CB – Virginia
74. Greg Little – WR – North Carolina
75. Lawrence Guy – DT – Arizona State
76. Christian Ponder – QB – Florida State
77. Jacquizz Rodgers – RB – Oregon State*
78. Johnny Patrick – CB – Louisville
79. Rodney Hudson – C – Florida State
80. Greg Jones – ILB – Michigan State
81. Danny Watkins – OG – Baylor
82. Davon House – CB – New Mexico State
83. Sam Acho – DE – Texas
84. Kelvin Sheppard – LB - LSU
85. K.J. Wright – OLB – Mississippi State
86. Quinton Carter – FS - Oklahoma
87. Nate Irving – ILB – North Carolina State
88. Kendall Hunter – RB – Oklahoma State
89. Brandon Hogan – CB – West Virginia
90. Curtis Brown – CB – Texas
91. John Moffitt – OG – Wisconsin
92. Ahmad Black – SS - Florida
93. Andy Dalton – QB - TCU
94. Keith Williams – OG – Nebraska
95. Jason Pinkston – OT – Pittsburgh
96. Ronald Johnson – WR - USC
97. Pernell McPhee – DE – Mississippi State
98. Colin McCarthy – MLB – Miami
99. Clint Boling – OL - Georgia
100. Ricky Stanzi – QB - Iowa


III. 2012 Seniors

1. Michael Floyd – WR – Notre Dame
2. Ryan Broyles – WR - Oklahoma
3. Janoris Jenkins – CB – Florida
4. Jared Crick – DT - Nebraska
5. Kenny Tate – FS – Maryland
6. Cordy Glenn – OG – Georgia
7. Mark Barron – SS - Alabama
8. Greg Childs – WR – Arkansas
9. Quinton Coples – DE – North Carolina
10. Courtney Upshaw – ILB - Alabama


IV. Mock Draft

1. Carolina Panthers: Nick Fairley - DT - Auburn
2. Denver Broncos: Da'Quan Bowers - DE - Clemson
3. Buffalo Bills: Cameron Newton - QB - Auburn
4. Cincinnati Bengals: A.J. Green - WR - Georgia
5. Arizona Cardinals: Patrick Peterson - CB - LSU
6. Cleveland Browns: Julio Jones - WR - Alabama
7. San Francisco 49ers: Jake Locker - QB - Washington
8. Tennessee Titans: Ryan Mallett - QB - Arkansas
9. Dallas Cowboys: Marcell Dareus - DE - Alabama
10. Washington Redskins: Cameron Heyward - DE - Ohio State
11. Houston Texans: Robert Quinn - DE/OLB - North Carolina
12. Minnesota Vikings: Blaine Gabbert - QB - Missouri
13. Detroit Lions: Prince Amukamara - CB - Nebraska
14. St. Louis Rams: Ryan Kerrigan - DE - Purdue
15. Miami Dolphins: Mark Ingram - RB - Alabama
16. Jacksonville Jaguars: J.J. Watt - DE - Wisconsin
17. New England Patriots (f/OAK): Cameron Jordan - DE - California
18. San Diego Chargers: Justin Houston - OLB - Georgia
19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Allen Bailey - DE - Miami
20. New York Giants: Tyron Smith - OT - USC
21. Kansas City Chiefs: Martez Wilson - ILB - Illinois
22. Indianapolis Colts: Nate Solder - OT - Colorado
23. Philadelphia Eagles: Akeem Ayers - OLB - UCLA
24. New Orleans Saints: Stephen Paea - DT - Oregon State
25. Seattle Seahawks: Brandon Harris - CB - Miami
26. New York Jets: Von Miller - OLB - Texas A&M
27. Baltimore Ravens: Jimmy Smith - CB - Colorado
28. Chicago Bears: Anthony Castonzo - OT - Boston College
29. Atlanta Falcons: Kyle Rudolph - TE - Notre Dame
30. Pittsburgh Steelers: Marcus Cannon - OG/OT - TCU
31. Green Bay Packers: Mikel LeShoure - RB - Illinois
32. New England Patriots: Torrey Smith - WR - Maryland

Matthew Jones
01-16-2011, 04:18 PM
Your rankings could be improved by including guys in multiple categories. Ther'es a little bit of it on defensive with the defensive end and 3-4 defensive end categories, but I was confused by it. Does including guys like Dareus and Heyward in the "defensive end" category mean you're projecting them as potential 4-3 ends? I'd suggest inserting everyone into as many positions as possible. You list DeMarcus Love and Orlando Franklin at OT, but include (OG) at the end, which is fine, but I'd also like to see where you rank them in the offensive guard category, if that makes sense. I'd suggest something like that for the entire rankings, since the way it's done right now doesn't give any context as to how well those guys project. The round projections you used to include were cool too. Other than that the rankings look pretty good. Christian Ballard missing from the defensive tackle category was something I noticed. Hopefully this helps.

P.S. Torrey Smith can't run routes and I doubt the Patriots draft someone like that early, especially with a wealth of passing options already and a couple developmental guys in Tate/Price.

JaxJag_1
01-16-2011, 04:19 PM
Nice work, appreciate your insight.

Thanks for sharing

49erNation85
01-16-2011, 04:22 PM
Nice work as always the Pudge.I think your top 2 QB 's will change after the senior bowl and Locker should be #1 again ( crossing fingers for SF pick ) I still don't see the hype for Newton being the top pick at QB .Everyone else seems to be in the right spot. Love the Mock draft as well.If Locker is there at 7th I really do think SF and the coaching staff will want their own young QB stud who they cold mold into their offense and perform good in .Tho by some small chance I see them taking another WR if Jones or Green falls to them we could us another big play person who is taller then 6'2" . This also a nice lay out well put together too.

ThePudge
01-16-2011, 04:28 PM
Your rankings could be improved by including guys in multiple categories. Ther'es a little bit of it on defensive with the defensive end and 3-4 defensive end categories, but I was confused by it. Does including guys like Dareus and Heyward in the "defensive end" category mean you're projecting them as potential 4-3 ends? I'd suggest inserting everyone into as many positions as possible. You list DeMarcus Love and Orlando Franklin at OT, but include (OG) at the end, which is fine, but I'd also like to see where you rank them in the offensive guard category, if that makes sense. I'd suggest something like that for the entire rankings, since the way it's done right now doesn't give any context as to how well those guys project. The round projections you used to include were cool too. Other than that the rankings look pretty good. Christian Ballard missing from the defensive tackle category was something I noticed. Hopefully this helps.

P.S. Torrey Smith can't run routes and I doubt the Patriots draft someone like that early, especially with a wealth of passing options already and a couple developmental guys in Tate/Price.

First time I've included 3-4 rankings, so there are some inconsistencies. I tried to fix the errors in there. I moved Dareus to Tackle, as I believe a 4-3 team would play him there. Heyward I kept with the ends, though I moved him down because that's not his best fit. Ballard is a true DT/DE tweener, like Heyward, and in a 4-3 scheme teams could go either way so I listed him as a 4-3 End but acknowledged his potential fit at Tackle in that scheme.

I think Love probably fits best at Guard, where I think Franklin is a better fit at Tackle. Were I to include them with the Guards, I'd rank Love 2nd (behind Pouncey), Franklin 3rd (behind Ijalana.)

Around Combine time I'll be including the round projections. I'm waiting on the All-Star games for that. Everything gets more thorough the closer we get to draft day.

Menardo75
01-16-2011, 04:36 PM
Love the Locker pick to the niners.

prock
01-16-2011, 04:44 PM
I can dig Gabbert. Good work as always, Pudge.

diabsoule
01-16-2011, 04:55 PM
I can live with Paea with the Saints although I would rather Von Miller.

critesy
01-16-2011, 05:25 PM
love randall cobb as the #3 wr. he is the definition of a playmaker.

bullg8rdaddy
01-16-2011, 06:29 PM
I thought Tampa had the 20th pick in the 1st. Would rather have Ayers than Bailey. We already have a bunch of guys that can play LE and UT. IMO

Great work, though.

Pat Sims 90
01-16-2011, 06:53 PM
Pudge Do u think Marcell Dareus could be the pick for Bengals at 4 and do u see him as a 4-3 UT?

TACKLE
01-16-2011, 06:57 PM
Pudge Do u think Marcell Dareus could be the pick for Bengals at 4 and do u see him as a 4-3 UT?

If AJ Green and Fairley are gone, I think that would be the most likely pick.

Morton
01-16-2011, 07:49 PM
I don't know why everyone has Bowers as the consensus #1 DE.

I've studied some game tape of his recently and have come away unimpressed. He has some decent physical ability, but he's not dominant, and his effort on a down-by-down basis leaves me unimpressed.

ThePudge
01-16-2011, 07:51 PM
Pudge Do u think Marcell Dareus could be the pick for Bengals at 4 and do u see him as a 4-3 UT?

He could be, but I'm not sure they want a defensive guy at 4th Overall. I'm pretty convinced they'll be targeting WR all the way in the 1st Round as I think helping Carson will be the #1 priority of the offseason. It's clear this team needs a premier talent at the position for their passing game to be as effective as it's capable of being. I think it's clear T.O. will not be back next season and I don't think it's guaranteed that the team will pick up Chad's 6 mil. option. I think A.J. Green at #4 may be one of the most predictable picks in this draft as I really don't see Carolina, Denver, or Buffalo going in that direction.

I just see too much youth and talent at DT, with Peko, Pat Sims, and Geno Atkins all serving individual roles. Sure, they could use an improvement but is it really necessary up there when there are gaping holes on offense. Linebacker is an option, but value seems to be in the Second Round if that's a route they choose to go. Cornerback and Running Back will become holes if the team can't re-sign Johnathan Joseph and Cedric Benson.

A Free Safety will surely be high on the team's priority list again with the rest of the division fielding difference-maker's at the position (T.J. Ward, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu.) The team is especially short on talent, youth, and stability at the Safety position.

Offensive Guard will be an option on Day Two (Rounds 2-3) as the line could certainly use an upgrade in pass-protection, talent, and youth. The Bengals tend to like big, versatile linemen and this draft has a few that fit the bill.

brasho
01-17-2011, 07:57 AM
I thought Tampa had the 20th pick in the 1st. Would rather have Ayers than Bailey. We already have a bunch of guys that can play LE and UT. IMO

Great work, though.

Aldon Smith would definitely be higher on my wish list as well. If not Smith, then I'd rather project Von Miller to RDE for us and hope that he has a little of that Mathis/Freeney magic.

In his defense, we do have LDE and UTs... but none of the LDEs are particularly good. Crowder, Bennett, and Magee all flashed a little bit at LDE but I don't think an upgrade out there would hurt... but my fear is that ALlen Bailey is more physical specimen than difference maker.

Quailman
01-17-2011, 08:03 AM
Lets just say I completely disagree with you on Randall Cobb. At this point he is not even close to being a great receiver prospect, but he appears to have potential on the outside. He appears to have decent (I'd guess 4.5 speed) and speed is at a premium now days. He has decent size (5'11" and 186 listed, looks to have a strong upperbody). He is versatile and coaches could definitely look at him and say "I want him, he is a guy I could get creative with" because of all the things he has experience doing (QB, Wildcat, WR and RB). He brings value as a returner as well and given his physicality and hard working nature I wouldn't put special teams past him. I don't think Cobb is a guy you build a team around nor do I think at this point he is a guy you could plug in and have him produce. He has potential, he is versatile, he is a good special teams player and he looks to be the consummate teammate. Guy you want to have in your locker room with his heart, work ethic and leadership skills. But his lack of technical and fundamental skill hurts his draft stock and there is nothing special about him athletically, he is just a hard working, versatile player who is the centerpiece of a terrible college offense. I wouldn't even think about touching him until about the late third round.

JHL6719
01-17-2011, 08:09 AM
So is it official that Kenny Tate is coming back for his senior season? Does anyone know what's going on with this guy?


Great work, btw.

brasho
01-17-2011, 08:18 AM
Lets just say I completely disagree with you on Randall Cobb. At this point he is not even close to being a great receiver prospect, but he appears to have potential on the outside. He appears to have decent (I'd guess 4.5 speed) and speed is at a premium now days. He has decent size (5'11" and 186 listed, looks to have a strong upperbody). He is versatile and coaches could definitely look at him and say "I want him, he is a guy I could get creative with" because of all the things he has experience doing (QB, Wildcat, WR and RB). He brings value as a returner as well and given his physicality and hard working nature I wouldn't put special teams past him. I don't think Cobb is a guy you build a team around nor do I think at this point he is a guy you could plug in and have him produce. He has potential, he is versatile, he is a good special teams player and he looks to be the consummate teammate. Guy you want to have in your locker room with his heart, work ethic and leadership skills. But his lack of technical and fundamental skill hurts his draft stock and there is nothing special about him athletically, he is just a hard working, versatile player who is the centerpiece of a terrible college offense. I wouldn't even think about touching him until about the late third round.

Pretty much my sentiments. I really like Cobb, but as a pure WR he has to be further down the list. I see him more of a Randle-El jack-of-all-trades type player. I'd like him on my team in the slot, I'd like him coming out of the backfield as a receiver and an occasional run, returning kicks and punts, maybe as a wildcat guy... but I don't see how any team needing a WR is going to bypass a Baldwin or Torrey Smith (or even Jernigan) for Cobb.

When I think of ranking players like Cobb, I think of teams that need that position most. The Rams need WRs... so I ask myself, who would be of most value to the Rams? Cobb might be 6th or 7th to a team like St. Louis because they need a guy that can be a number 1 and be no worse than a number 2 and in Cobb I see a guy that can be no better than a number 2.

SenorGato
01-17-2011, 09:36 AM
Really good work...agree with alot of this, particularly the FS and 4-3 DE rankings.

Not a fan of Houston as a 3-4 OLB, and I'd probably rank Smith higher.

Like others, not too sure about Cobb as the #3 WR. Good player, but right now a jack of all trades master of none kinda guy...someone who goes in the 2-4 range. That said, 2-4 is about the range for all the guys after Green/Jones so maybe it doesn't really matter...he did have a very good pass catching season in 2010.

ElectricEye
01-17-2011, 10:30 AM
I wish we had Cameron Jordan and Torrey Smith yesterday. Great work man.

romo4prez415
01-17-2011, 10:49 AM
I don't know why everyone has Bowers as the consensus #1 DE.

I've studied some game tape of his recently and have come away unimpressed. He has some decent physical ability, but he's not dominant, and his effort on a down-by-down basis leaves me unimpressed.

When I actually had time to breakdown Bowers I'm simply not impressed as well. I have Robert Quinn and JJ Watt ahead of him.

Bengals78
01-17-2011, 11:39 AM
When I actually had time to breakdown Bowers I'm simply not impressed as well. I have Robert Quinn and JJ Watt ahead of him.

Smart man. Smart man.

Love the work Pudge!

Sniper
01-17-2011, 11:45 AM
I skimmed quickly, but why is Dane Sanzenbacher so low?

ThePudge
01-17-2011, 11:54 AM
Pretty much my sentiments. I really like Cobb, but as a pure WR he has to be further down the list. I see him more of a Randle-El jack-of-all-trades type player. I'd like him on my team in the slot, I'd like him coming out of the backfield as a receiver and an occasional run, returning kicks and punts, maybe as a wildcat guy... but I don't see how any team needing a WR is going to bypass a Baldwin or Torrey Smith (or even Jernigan) for Cobb.

When I think of ranking players like Cobb, I think of teams that need that position most. The Rams need WRs... so I ask myself, who would be of most value to the Rams? Cobb might be 6th or 7th to a team like St. Louis because they need a guy that can be a number 1 and be no worse than a number 2 and in Cobb I see a guy that can be no better than a number 2.

I'm awake and ready to fire off some responses, so just stay with me people. In this post I'll cover Randall Cobb (for brasho, Quailman, Senor Gato.) Let me put this disclaimer out there: This is a very weak draft class. There are only about 18-20 players that qualify as 1st Round values to me and a lot of the fringe 1st Rd players could easily have been Mid-2nd Rounders any other year. Likewise, the Top 3 players have no business being in the Top 3 in most classes and A.J. Green would have likely been my 4th or 5th Overall player on last year's board. Unfortunately I can't leave gaps and start at #4 & go from there so value is inflated due to a weak draft class.

Randall Cobb
- I think Randall Cobb absolutely projects best to Wide Receiver at the next level. I hear the Brad Smith comparisons, the Antwan Randle El comparisons and I see some good, some bad. As far as size/frame goes, they are similar. They have similar capabilities in the return game, and the players above had experience starting at Quarterback. Each is very dynamic with the ball in their hands and teams will find ways to get the ball to them What makes them different as college players: Randle El & Brad Smith never had any experience at WR, let alone an 84 catch season in the SEC. They were groomed as QBs until Training Camp, while Cobb already has plenty of experience upon exiting college.

Is he a polished receiver? No, but my rankings factor in that he's hardly more raw than Torrey Smith or Jonathan Baldwin. Cobb is raw as a route-runner, but he's seen action in the slot and outside on the edge. He improved by leaps and bounds this past season as a receiver and became one of the most dynamic threats in the country. His best attributes shine when he has the ball in his hands. He has good speed (4.45e) and excellent elusiveness. Guys like this can get by without a ton of polish early because offenses will simply be trying to put the ball in this guy's hands. Screens, slants, wildcat, designed WR runs, and kick returns will all be relevant in Cobb's rookie season. As some of you touched on, he's a guy an Offensive Coordinator will love to get a hold of. Down the line we could be talking about a pretty special player and somebody that is able to create mismatches for offenses.

I don't think he projects as a #1 WR, and maybe Baldwin/Smith have that upside, but I think he's the most NFL ready because of the variety of roles he can offer an offense. He can save a roster spot and begin earning his paycheck much quicker than the two guys I have ranked 4/5 in my WR list. My comparison for him would be a poor man's Jeremy Maclin, though it was clear Maclin brought more of a complete game to the table coming out in 2009. As an all-purpose prospect I like him much more than Jerrel Jernigan. In a regular draft class, he's a Mid-2nd Round value (so obviously not someone who you'll build your entire team around) but in this weak class I wouldn't be surprised to see him wind up in the Late 1st-Early 2nd range.

ThePudge
01-17-2011, 11:57 AM
I skimmed quickly, but why is Dane Sanzenbacher so low?

I love Dane as a college player, but until I see otherwise at the NFL Combine, I don't think he has the foot quickness to be an effective slot receiver in the NFL. He certainly lacks the size and speed to play outside at the next level. Oddly, he seems like a poor man's version of former teammate Anthony Gonzalez. I'd draft Sanzenbacher late, unless he proves me wrong about that foot quickness. I have to be honest too, it's tough to evaluate a Wide Receiver with Terrelle Pryor playing the Quarterback position.

JHL6719
01-17-2011, 12:01 PM
I'm awake and ready to fire off some responses, so just stay with me people. In this post I'll cover Randall Cobb (for brasho, Quailman, Senor Gato.) Let me put this disclaimer out there: This is a very weak draft class. There are only about 18-20 players that qualify as 1st Round values to me and a lot of the fringe 1st Rd players could easily have been Mid-2nd Rounders any other year. Likewise, the Top 3 players have no business being in the Top 3 in most classes and A.J. Green would have likely been my 4th or 5th Overall player on last year's board. Unfortunately I can't leave gaps and start at #4 & go from there so value is inflated due to a weak draft class.

Randall Cobb
- I think Randall Cobb absolutely projects best to Wide Receiver at the next level. I hear the Brad Smith comparisons, the Antwan Randle El comparisons and I see some good, some bad. As far as size/frame goes, they are similar. They have similar capabilities in the return game, and the players above had experience starting at Quarterback. Each is very dynamic with the ball in their hands and teams will find ways to get the ball to them What makes them different as college players: Randle El & Brad Smith never had any experience at WR, let alone an 84 catch season in the SEC. They were groomed as QBs until Training Camp, while Cobb already has plenty of experience upon exiting college.

Is he a polished receiver? No, but my rankings factor in that he's hardly more raw than Torrey Smith or Jonathan Baldwin. Cobb is raw as a route-runner, but he's seen action in the slot and outside on the edge. He improved by leaps and bounds this past season as a receiver and became one of the most dynamic threats in the country. His best attributes shine when he has the ball in his hands. He has good speed (4.45e) and excellent elusiveness. Guys like this can get by without a ton of polish early because offenses will simply be trying to put the ball in this guy's hands. Screens, slants, wildcat, designed WR runs, and kick returns will all be relevant in Cobb's rookie season. As some of you touched on, he's a guy an Offensive Coordinator will love to get a hold of. Down the line we could be talking about a pretty special player and somebody that is able to create mismatches for offenses.

I don't think he projects as a #1 WR, and maybe Baldwin/Smith have that upside, but I think he's the most NFL ready because of the variety of roles he can offer an offense. He can save a roster spot and begin earning his paycheck much quicker than the two guys I have ranked 4/5 in my WR list. My comparison for him would be a poor man's Jeremy Maclin, though it was clear Maclin brought more of a complete game to the table coming out in 2009. As an all-purpose prospect I like him much more than Jerrel Jernigan. In a regular draft class, he's a Mid-2nd Round value (so obviously not someone who you'll build your entire team around) but in this weak class I wouldn't be surprised to see him wind up in the Late 1st-Early 2nd range.


Agree completely with you on Cobb. He's going to come in and make an impact perhaps quicker than any WR in this draft other than possibly Green and Julio Jones simply due to his versatility and experience inside and out.

Among SEC fans of different teams all across the south, Randall Cobb is known as "little" Hines Ward... the kid is going to be a fantastic pro. There's nothing he can't do...or won't do.

Tom Servo
01-17-2011, 12:06 PM
Don't completely agree with your rankings, most notably a couple of my Bucks are too low, but impressive nonetheless. Good job dude

ThePudge
01-17-2011, 12:15 PM
Don't completely agree with your rankings, most notably a couple of my Bucks are too low, but impressive nonetheless. Good job dude

I would hope that nobody agrees completely. No two NFL boards will be the same, so I don't expect that many fans will feel the exact same way I do. I fuse Combine/Senior projection & current stock to create my boards so it's extremely susceptible to change. Nothing written in stone yet.

This is by all means a very poor class of Buckeyes with the exception of Cameron Heyward. I think the Bucks will produce a maximum of three NFL starters from this draft class. No player other than Cam deserves to go in the first three rounds in my opinion. I think Brandon Saine/Dane Sanzenbacher may have the ability to be surprise contributors in the NFL, but I wouldn't project either as starters. Chekwa, Rolle, Homan, Boren, and Browning all fit into the 4th-6th Round range for me and it wouldn't shock me if two of those guys developed into starters in the NFL.

Iamcanadian
01-17-2011, 12:28 PM
1. A.J. Green – WR – Georgia*
2. Da’Quan Bowers – DE – Clemson*
3. Patrick Peterson – CB – LSU*
4. Cameron Newton – QB – Auburn*
5. Nick Fairley – DT – Auburn*
6. Julio Jones – WR – Alabama*
7. Marcell Dareus – DL – Alabama*
8. Robert Quinn – DE – North Carolina*
9. Prince Amukamara – CB – Nebraska
10. Ryan Kerrigan – DE – Purdue
11. Mark Ingram – RB – Alabama*
12. J.J. Watt – DE – Wisconsin*
13. Cameron Jordan – DE – California
14. Jake Locker – QB – Washington
15. Cameron Heyward – DE – Ohio State
16. Justin Houston – OLB – Georgia*
17. Ryan Mallett – QB – Arkansas*
18. Tyron Smith – OT – USC**
19. Akeem Ayers – LB – UCLA*
20. Anthony Castonzo – OT – Boston College
21. Kyle Rudolph – TE – Notre Dame*
22. Von Miller – OLB – Texas A&M
23. Blaine Gabbert – QB - Missouri
24. Derek Sherrod – OT – Mississippi State
25. Nate Solder – OT – Colorado
26. Brandon Harris – CB – Miami*
27. Allen Bailey – DE – Miami
28. Adrian Clayborn – DE – Iowa
29. Mikel LeShoure – RB – Illinois*
30. Martez Wilson – LB – Illinois*
31. Jimmy Smith – CB – Colorado
32. Randall Cobb – WR – Kentucky*
33. Marcus Cannon – OT – TCU
34. Gabe Carimi – OT – Wisconsin
35. Drake Nevis – DT – LSU
36. Stephen Paea – DT – Oregon State

1. Carolina Panthers: Nick Fairley - DT - Auburn --- Toss up between Bowers and Fairley but usually DE's go before DT's all things being equal.
2. Denver Broncos: Da'Quan Bowers - DE - Clemson
3. Buffalo Bills: Cameron Newton - QB - Auburn - Personally, I love Newton becausae of his mental toughness and calm under pressure but he'll need to show in the post season that he has the rest. If he really blossums in the post season, could go #1 overall or fall out of top 10 if he doesn't look good.
4. Cincinnati Bengals: A.J. Green - WR - Georgia --solid selection
5. Arizona Cardinals: Patrick Peterson - CB - LSU ---could easily go QB IMO, look for Blain Gabbert to finish #1 or #2 in the QB rankings before all is said and done.
6. Cleveland Browns: Julio Jones - WR - Alabama ---not sure Jones is a top 10 prospect at this point.7.
San Francisco 49ers: Jake Locker - QB - Washington ---not sure either Locker or Mallet will end up in the top 10.
8. Tennessee Titans: Ryan Mallett - QB - Arkansas
9. Dallas Cowboys: Marcell Dareus - DE - Alabama ---could go higher if QB's slip, certainly should go before Julio
10. Washington Redskins: Cameron Heyward - DE - Ohio State ---too high IMO, lacks elite speed for a DE unless a 3-4 team wants him.
11. Houston Texans: Robert Quinn - DE/OLB - North Carolina ---definitely at this point a potential top 5 pick and for sure a top 10 guy
12. Minnesota Vikings: Blaine Gabbert - QB - Missouri
13. Detroit Lions: Prince Amukamara - CB - Nebraska ---never get out of the top 10 if healthy
14. St. Louis Rams: Ryan Kerrigan - DE - Purdue
15. Miami Dolphins: Mark Ingram - RB - Alabama ---I doubt he has the speed to go this high.
16. Jacksonville Jaguars: J.J. Watt - DE - Wisconsin ---IMO, Adrian Clayborn will go before either Heyward, Kerrigan or Watt as the top senior in the draft. I see him battling Kerrigan for the privledge of going the highest. I know they aren't seniors except Clayborn and Hetward.
17. New England Patriots (f/OAK): Cameron Jordan - DE - California
18. San Diego Chargers: Justin Houston - OLB - Georgia
19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Allen Bailey - DE - Miami
20. New York Giants: Tyron Smith - OT - USC
21. Kansas City Chiefs: Martez Wilson - ILB - Illinois
22. Indianapolis Colts: Nate Solder - OT - Colorado
23. Philadelphia Eagles: Akeem Ayers - OLB - UCLA
24. New Orleans Saints: Stephen Paea - DT - Oregon State
25. Seattle Seahawks: Brandon Harris - CB - Miami
26. New York Jets: Von Miller - OLB - Texas A&M ---18-32 is a crapshoot at this point but I think Miller could go higher as a 3-4 LB
27. Baltimore Ravens: Jimmy Smith - CB - Colorado
28. Chicago Bears: Anthony Castonzo - OT - Boston College
29. Atlanta Falcons: Kyle Rudolph - TE - Notre Dame
30. Pittsburgh Steelers: Marcus Cannon - OG/OT - TCU
31. Green Bay Packers: Mikel LeShoure - RB - Illinois
32. New England Patriots: Torrey Smith - WR - Maryland

That is all I have at this point in the draft process and no doubt a lot will change once Mayock posts his rankings.

bigfreak314
01-17-2011, 10:49 PM
Man Pudge I always like reading your insight man. Although I like Baileys physical tools, I think Tampa would be better served with Aldon because he is a true RDE speed rusher and his impact initially as a 3rd down would automatically make the rest of the pass rushers better. I have seen on some mock drafts him going ridiculously high as in the top 10. With that said if he is not there at Tampa's pick do you think Bailey could be a guy who's impact effects everyone on the DL?

Mr. Goosemahn
01-17-2011, 11:10 PM
Pudge, I posted this on Scott's Paea thread, but I'll ask you too. Do you think Stephen Paea could succeed as a 3-4 NT?

I know people say he'd be a much better fit as a one gap, but I think he could be a good two gap NT too. Maybe it wouldn't take advantage of all his talents, but he'd still be very successful there, IMO.

Main argument I've heard against being a 3-4 NT is his size, but he's not a tiny man, he just doesn't really have fat or excessive bulk, which is something that he could very easily pick up as a pro.

For comparison's sake, Casey Hampton was listed at 6'1 and 310 at Texas, and checked in at 6102 and 314 at the combine. Wilfork was 6012 and 323 at the combine.

Both of those guys have put on at least 20 lbs. in the NFL.

Paea is as strong as they come, and plays with a relentless motor, which is something that I love in defensive linemen. He also lives in the backfield. I could definitely see him taking on two linemen as a two gap tackle and opening up holes for LB's.

Thoughts? Too far-fetched on my part?

ThePudge
01-17-2011, 11:21 PM
Pudge, I posted this on Scott's Paea thread, but I'll ask you too. Do you think Stephen Paea could succeed as a 3-4 NT?

I know people say he'd be a much better fit as a one gap, but I think he could be a good two gap NT too. Maybe it wouldn't take advantage of all his talents, but he'd still be very successful there, IMO.

Main argument I've heard against being a 3-4 NT is his size, but he's not a tiny man, he just doesn't really have fat or excessive bulk, which is something that he could very easily pick up as a pro.

For comparison's sake, Casey Hampton was listed at 6'1 and 310 at Texas, and checked in at 6102 and 314 at the combine. Wilfork was 6012 and 323 at the combine.

Both of those guys have put on at least 20 lbs. in the NFL.

Paea is as strong as they come, and plays with a relentless motor, which is something that I love in defensive linemen. He also lives in the backfield. I could definitely see him taking on two linemen as a two gap tackle and opening up holes for LB's.

Thoughts? Too far-fetched on my part?

No, I'd have to say I absolutely agree with you. Stephen Paea, to me, is the best NT prospect in this class due to his extremely stout build and incredible strength. I think his best fit may be 4-3 NT, as he's smaller than your typical two-gapper. Still, I think for 3-4 NT needy teams, Paea is your best option high in the draft. He still has terrific anchor strength and the upper body power to fight double teams and control blocks. I think that will be something that will clarify itself next week at the Senior Bowl a little bit. I don't see what could be stopping him (assuming he's roughly 6'1 305-310) from gaining 15-20 pounds at the next level and operating in that scheme.

Mr. Goosemahn
01-20-2011, 12:28 AM
Pudge, if you had to pick a prospect for each position who had all the tools to be a stud but really isn't (like Solder) and a guy who's good but doesn't have the tools (like Kerrigan), who would they be?

ThePudge
01-20-2011, 01:00 PM
Pudge, if you had to pick a prospect for each position who had all the tools to be a stud but really isn't (like Solder) and a guy who's good but doesn't have the tools (like Kerrigan), who would they be?

Good question.... I'll separate into orange and blue to illustrate the guy who have the tools to be a stud, but aren't there yet and the guys I think are great football players but lack some physical tools. For the record, I think Ryan Kerrigan will test with adequate triangle numbers for a 4-3 DE (6036e 267e 4.8e).

Quarterback
Blaine Gabbert - Missouri
Andy Dalton - TCU

Running Back
Darren Evans - Virginia Tech
Jacquizz Rodgers - Oregon State

Wide Receiver
DeAndre Brown - Southern Mississippi
Greg Salas - Hawaii

Tight End
Julius Thomas - Portland State
D.J. Williams - Arkansas

Offensive Tackle
Joseph Barksdale - LSU
Danny Watkins - Baylor

Interior Offensive Line
Justin Boren - Ohio State
Rodney Hudson - Florida State

Defensive Tackle
Marvin Austin - North Carolina
Drake Nevis - LSU

Defensive End
Allen Bailey - Miami
Jeremy Beal - Oklahoma

Outside Linebacker
Bruce Carter - North Carolina
Brian Rolle - Ohio State

Inside Linebacker
Obie Ezeh - Michigan
Nate Irving - North Carolina State

Cornerback
Jalil Brown - Colorado
Kendric Burney - North Carolina

Safety
Robert Sands - West Virginia
Ahmad Black - Florida

SRogers92
01-20-2011, 01:19 PM
As a Lions fan, I do not want Prince at all ... not a fan of his in the least bit.

killxswitch
01-20-2011, 01:23 PM
Nice work. I thought you thought more of Carimi though.

SRogers92
01-20-2011, 01:24 PM
Also as a Michigan fan ... Obi Ezeh does not have "the tools" he really has nothing ... doesn't seem overly fast, has God awful instincts, and couldn't tackle me if he wanted to ... if he gets drafted, I'll instantly become a hater of that team.

1funguy
01-20-2011, 01:53 PM
Nice work. Speaking for San Diego, I'm on the fence as to whether we go DE or 'backer at 18. I like Ayers quite a bit for our scheme, but wonder if he's really worth 18 overall. The DE class, IMO, is fairly deep so I could be pretty happy with a guy like Wilerson with one of our 2nds.

What's your take on Kendrick Ellis? I live in VA & have seen him play a few times during his career at Hampton. He looks the part but it can be tough to get a good eval on a guy of his size/strength playing at the FCS level. Seems a little tall for NT but I wonder if he could drop a little weight & move to 5-tech.

ThePudge
01-20-2011, 02:32 PM
Also as a Michigan fan ... Obi Ezeh does not have "the tools" he really has nothing ... doesn't seem overly fast, has God awful instincts, and couldn't tackle me if he wanted to ... if he gets drafted, I'll instantly become a hater of that team.

I don't consider instincts a physical attribute but rather more of a measure of effectiveness on the football field, which as I indicated, Ezeh certainly looks. Ezeh is not a draftable prospect, however he looks good on paper with good size/average speed. The worst player that I included above, guys like Gabbert & Carter are far superior prospects but they too fit the bill as guys that have all the tools to be great yet aren't there yet.

Honestly the only reason I included Ezeh was because the ILB class includes very few players with the tools that aren't playing up to them. Not the most physically gifted class.

Also, Prince Amukamara would be an excellent injection of size & toughness into the Lions secondary. With so little talent at the position (not to mention solid value in Price) I'm not sure why you wouldn't strive to come away with a guy like Amukamara on draft day.

miz11
01-20-2011, 02:32 PM
Terrible rams pick. We already have chris long who plays LDE. We need an explosive, athletic RDE like quinn or aldon smith if we are going DE in the first round. But I'd rather have someone like Jon Baldwin or Torrey Smith at #14, then go DE in the 2nd round, or even someone like Ayers or Von Miller in the 1st. Our two biggest holes are WR and OLB. I'd be willing to live with Chris Long and James Hall for another year and see if Selvie and Sims can develop.

ThePudge
01-20-2011, 02:35 PM
Nice work. I thought you thought more of Carimi though.

I like Carimi, but I think he's going to have a tough time against NFL speed rushers. He plays off balance a little too often and does not have the foot quickness or hand speed to counter top NFL pass-rushers. I think he could be a very good Right Tackle yet you still have to see plenty of speed over there. Great run-blocker though and a guy I think deserving of a Late 1st-Early 2nd Round selection. Excited to see him at the Senior Bowl squaring off against Ryan Kerrigan and Adrian Clayborn.

ThePudge
01-20-2011, 02:46 PM
Terrible rams pick. We already have chris long who plays LDE. We need an explosive, athletic RDE like quinn or aldon smith if we are going DE in the first round. But I'd rather have someone like Jon Baldwin or Torrey Smith at #14, then go DE in the 2nd round, or even someone like Ayers or Von Miller in the 1st. Our two biggest holes are WR and OLB. I'd be willing to live with Chris Long and James Hall for another year and see if Selvie and Sims can develop.

Comments like this make me think people just look at skin color when judging white defenders. Ryan Kerrigan is right there with Smith as the players with the quickest first-step in this draft class. He's the draft's most polished and productive pass-rusher and he shows terrific ability in pursuit. I don't see any reason people would consider him an inferior prospect to Chris Long was in 2008. His quickness off the edge makes him an ideal RE in a 4-3 scheme; his best fit in my opinion. Teams will undoubtedly also look at Kerrigan at OLB if he times under 4.8 at the NFL Combine. Against similar competition, Kerrigan's production more than tripled Aldon Smith's. In my opinion, Smith is more raw than Jason Pierre-Paul was coming out of college.

I don't think Von Miller is a Top 15-20 value as a 4-3 OLB nor do I think Baldwin/Smith are nearly good enough receivers to garner attention that high. Behind Jones/Green, the next best receiver will likely come off the board outside of the Top 25. Akeem Ayers is still very overrated (even on my board) and his on-field play has never caught up to his physical ability. His best fit may wind up being 3-4 OLB when all is said and done. Value at Linebacker will appear in the 2nd-3rd Round. As for Wide Receiver, if Julio Jones doesn't fall to the Rams at 14, they'd be best targeting a big time free agent or hoping Baldwin/Smith fall to them in the second.

Morton
01-20-2011, 02:53 PM
Sorry, Pudge, it's obvious that Ryan Kerrigan and J.J. Watt both are "blue collar" pass rushers who rely on technique and a "high motor" to accomplish what they do.

Robert Quinn and Justin Houston, on the other hand, are explosive "quick twitch" athletes with a high degree of athleticism.

Just like Kyle Van Den Bosch and Chris Long in the NFL are "blue collar" pass rushers who mostly get by on effort and Dwight Freeney and Julius Peppers are just freak of nature athletes who get by on that sheer athleticism.

TACKLE
01-20-2011, 02:55 PM
Comments like this make me think people just look at skin color when judging white defenders. Ryan Kerrigan is right there with Smith as the players with the quickest first-step in this draft class. He's the draft's most polished and productive pass-rusher and he shows terrific ability in pursuit. I don't see any reason people would consider him an inferior prospect to Chris Long was in 2008. His quickness off the edge makes him an ideal RE in a 4-3 scheme; his best fit in my opinion. Teams will undoubtedly also look at Kerrigan at OLB if he times under 4.8 at the NFL Combine. Against similar competition, Kerrigan's production more than tripled Aldon Smith's. In my opinion, Smith is more raw than Jason Pierre-Paul was coming out of college.

I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this part. Chris Long was in every way, a rich mans Ryan Kerrigan. Not substantially but he has Kerrigan beat in basically every area. He was bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic, more versatile, higher upside, played the run better, was a slightly better pass rusher and put up basically the same production despite playing DE in a 3-4. There was a reason that Long was the #2 pick and a strong contender to go #1 overall. Not saying Kerrigan can't be as good as Long or even better on the next level, but he certainly isn't a superior prospect to Long.

ThePudge
01-20-2011, 03:02 PM
Nice work. Speaking for San Diego, I'm on the fence as to whether we go DE or 'backer at 18. I like Ayers quite a bit for our scheme, but wonder if he's really worth 18 overall. The DE class, IMO, is fairly deep so I could be pretty happy with a guy like Wilerson with one of our 2nds.

What's your take on Kendrick Ellis? I live in VA & have seen him play a few times during his career at Hampton. He looks the part but it can be tough to get a good eval on a guy of his size/strength playing at the FCS level. Seems a little tall for NT but I wonder if he could drop a little weight & move to 5-tech.

I don't think Ellis uses leverage well enough to make it in the NFL at Nose Tackle, he's simply one of the only players in the class capable of carrying that kind of girth. He probably fits better at 5-Tech, as you kind of mentioned, but he'd need to drop 20-30 pounds from what we assume he currently is (340.)

I like Ayers at 3-4 OLB quite a bit, but I think Justin Houston is this draft's best fit at the position. Houston already has a lot of experience as a rush backer and no SEC pass-rusher could match his production this past year. Von Miller is undersized, but his speed & quickness off the edge may make him an ideal fit in a 3-4 front. Both Miller and Houston could be available when the Chargers pick, in my opinion Houston would would offer the greater value. If you're going 5-Tech in the 1st Round, I think Cameron Heyward is your top fit in the 10-20 range. He's a picture perfect 3-4 DE and is a better player than 2009's 3rd Overall Pick Tyson Jackson. J.J. Watt and Cameron Jordan may also work, but both are likely better fits in a 4-3 system. Wilkerson is a good fit but 18 may be just a bit too high for the Temple Underclassman. I could see him fitting into the back end of the 1st though.

miz11
01-20-2011, 03:11 PM
Comments like this make me think people just look at skin color when judging white defenders. Ryan Kerrigan is right there with Smith as the players with the quickest first-step in this draft class. He's the draft's most polished and productive pass-rusher and he shows terrific ability in pursuit. I don't see any reason people would consider him an inferior prospect to Chris Long was in 2008. His quickness off the edge makes him an ideal RE in a 4-3 scheme; his best fit in my opinion. Teams will undoubtedly also look at Kerrigan at OLB if he times under 4.8 at the NFL Combine. Against similar competition, Kerrigan's production more than tripled Aldon Smith's. In my opinion, Smith is more raw than Jason Pierre-Paul was coming out of college.

I don't think Von Miller is a Top 15-20 value as a 4-3 OLB nor do I think Baldwin/Smith are nearly good enough receivers to garner attention that high. Behind Jones/Green, the next best receiver will likely come off the board outside of the Top 25. Akeem Ayers is still very overrated (even on my board) and his on-field play has never caught up to his physical ability. His best fit may wind up being 3-4 OLB when all is said and done. Value at Linebacker will appear in the 2nd-3rd Round. As for Wide Receiver, if Julio Jones doesn't fall to the Rams at 14, they'd be best targeting a big time free agent or hoping Baldwin/Smith fall to them in the second.

Interesting. Most of the things I've read about him said he projects to strong side DE, and they say his first step is quick "for a strong side DE," etc. Maybe those projections are also basing that on his skin color, I don't know, and if you have watched his tape, then you know much more about him than I do. In my opinion, the rams defense would be best served by drafting a pure speed rusher that can blast around the edge and terrorize the QB. As good as Chris Long is, this is not what he excels at. He overpowers OTs, has a plethora of pass rush moves, and is relentless in getting to the QB. Drafting another Chris Long would be redundant, so if Kerrigan = Chris Long then I don't think the rams will draft him. If Kerrigan is more of the blast upfield and around the OT with pure athleticism and speed type guy, then I'd be all for it, but I haven't watched enough of his tape to make this call.

Edit: Even Scott says about Kerrigan "Makes up for ordinary physical tools with hard work and tenacity." That just doesn't seem like an athletic RDE to me.

ThePudge
01-20-2011, 03:29 PM
I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this part. Chris Long was in every way, a rich mans Ryan Kerrigan. Not substantially but he has Kerrigan beat in basically every area. He was bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic, more versatile, higher upside, played the run better, was a slightly better pass rusher and put up basically the same production despite playing DE in a 3-4. There was a reason that Long was the #2 pick and a strong contender to go #1 overall. Not saying Kerrigan can't be as good as Long or even better on the next level, but he certainly isn't a superior prospect to Long.

I should clarify. I'm not saying he's a better prospect, but I don't believe Chris Long was a better football player than Ryan Kerrigan. Long was undoubtedly the much stronger, more versatile player, and probably a better athlete too. Production was pretty even between the two but you'd probably have to give the edge to Kerrigan. Long wasn't completely a one-year wonder, but as a pass-rusher he was.

Kerrigan: 26.0 TFL 12.5 Sacks 5 FF (2010) - 18.5 TFL 13.0 Sacks 7 FF (2009)
Long: 21.0 TFL 14.0 Sacks (2007) - 12.0 TFL 5.0 Sacks (2006)

I should have been more specific with my comment, what I meant was Kerrigan is not at all an inferior pass-rushing prospect. I like his first step off the edge more than I did Long's and on tape I haven't found any defensive linemen in the class that is in the backfield more. He combines speed off the edge with excellent use of leverage. His 32.5 sacks over the past three seasons speak illustrate his success in the Big Ten.

I know Long will be more highly regarded on any draft day due to his strength, versatile, athleticism, and football pedigree. Still, I think Kerrigan stands a shot to be the better pro pass-rusher and a Pro-Bowl player for years. One of my man-crushes in this draft I guess you could say and a Top 10 value in my opinion. I expect him to really turn a lot of heads at the Senior Bowl and on draft day I'd be surprised to see him slip out of the top 16 picks.

Morton, I really have to disagree with you here. J.J. Watt's technique is very raw and makes him hard to project as a two-gap end . His size, athletic ability (which is great for his size), strength, and effort has made him a great college football player. But Watt isn't in Kerrigan's league off the snap, he's not as dangerous with his pass-rushing moves, & is simply not nearly the player Kerrigan is getting to the passer.

ThePudge
01-20-2011, 03:41 PM
If Kerrigan is more of the blast upfield and around the OT with pure athleticism and speed type guy, then I'd be all for it, but I haven't watched enough of his tape to make this call.

Edit: Even Scott says about Kerrigan "Makes up for ordinary physical tools with hard work and tenacity." That just doesn't seem like an athletic RDE to me.

I haven't seen a player in this class that embodies that bolded statement better. His speed off the edge is excellent but I wouldn't define him as a special athlete. He's very fast in pursuit and 25.5 Sacks & 12 Forced Fumbles over the past two seasons should illustrate his ability coming off the blind side. He's a good player anchoring in the run game too . He was easily the most active lineman in college football the past two seasons (136 Tackles) and really excels stopping the run as well.

Not a guy I'm too convinced could stand up and play Linebacker, where Long was thought to be a solid fit. Still, I think Kerrigan is the better pass-rushing prospect despite lacking the versatility of Long.

Morton
01-20-2011, 03:49 PM
Is there any concern, though, about the level of competition Kerrigan went up against while at Purdue? Do we have any game film of him battling any legit NFL OT prospects?

ThePudge
01-20-2011, 03:59 PM
Is there any concern, though, about the level of competition Kerrigan went up against while at Purdue? Do we have any game film of him battling any legit NFL OT prospects?

Mike Adams, Gabe Carimi, Josh Oglesby, Roger Saffold, and James Brewer. All current or future pros that saw Kerrigan up close the past two seasons.

Morton
01-20-2011, 04:08 PM
Riley Reiff, Mike Adams, Gabe Carimi, Josh Oglesby, Roger Saffold, and James Brewer. All current or future pros that saw Kerrigan up close the past two seasons.

How did he do against each, though? I don't remember him doing very well against Carimi in their Wisconsin game, and did he have any success against Saffold last year?

critesy
01-20-2011, 05:59 PM
where would ya put darvin adams wr auburn on your rankings ??

tenorx
01-21-2011, 01:55 AM
Awesome work!

1funguy
01-21-2011, 08:00 AM
I don't think Ellis uses leverage well enough to make it in the NFL at Nose Tackle, he's simply one of the only players in the class capable of carrying that kind of girth. He probably fits better at 5-Tech, as you kind of mentioned, but he'd need to drop 20-30 pounds from what we assume he currently is (340.)

I like Ayers at 3-4 OLB quite a bit, but I think Justin Houston is this draft's best fit at the position. Houston already has a lot of experience as a rush backer and no SEC pass-rusher could match his production this past year. Von Miller is undersized, but his speed & quickness off the edge may make him an ideal fit in a 3-4 front. Both Miller and Houston could be available when the Chargers pick, in my opinion Houston would would offer the greater value. If you're going 5-Tech in the 1st Round, I think Cameron Heyward is your top fit in the 10-20 range. He's a picture perfect 3-4 DE and is a better player than 2009's 3rd Overall Pick Tyson Jackson. J.J. Watt and Cameron Jordan may also work, but both are likely better fits in a 4-3 system. Wilkerson is a good fit but 18 may be just a bit too high for the Temple Underclassman. I could see him fitting into the back end of the 1st though.

Thanks for your input on Ellis. I like to look at the small school guys, particularly if they're at a school in my area where I can watch them in person.

I'm not at all sold on Miller - I think he turns out to be a situational pass rusher if he gets stuffed into a 3-4 OLB role.

Heyward is a fit at 18 & could well be there. I also like Wilkerson but see him, if we were to target him, as our pick at either 50 or 62. I could be very happy with Ayers at 18 & Wilkerson in the second.

killxswitch
01-21-2011, 09:42 AM
I like Carimi, but I think he's going to have a tough time against NFL speed rushers. He plays off balance a little too often and does not have the foot quickness or hand speed to counter top NFL pass-rushers. I think he could be a very good Right Tackle yet you still have to see plenty of speed over there. Great run-blocker though and a guy I think deserving of a Late 1st-Early 2nd Round selection. Excited to see him at the Senior Bowl squaring off against Ryan Kerrigan and Adrian Clayborn.

He handled both pretty well this season already so I expect similar results. IMO he wasn't tested much vs. top speed rushers this year (at least not that I can recall). I understand your concerns but I think the knocks on his athleticism are a little overstated. I seem to remember as a junior he was known more as a pass blocker that needed to get stronger and play a more physical game. He definitely did that as a senior and he was not really given the opportunity to go against a Robert Quinn type this year.

Saints-Tigers
01-21-2011, 11:02 AM
I like Von Miller as an attacking 4-3 OLB to be honest, one that can be protected by his linemen, but also be used in a fair amount of blitz packages. Let him use that speed cutting off runners to the outside, and blanketing underneath receivers.

Good work Pudge, we disagree a lot, but as someone that makes his own rankings and rating system, I appreciate the time and effort put into this, and I think you do a great job for someone that is so new to the field :thumbsup:

SRogers92
01-21-2011, 11:08 AM
I don't consider instincts a physical attribute but rather more of a measure of effectiveness on the football field, which as I indicated, Ezeh certainly looks. Ezeh is not a draftable prospect, however he looks good on paper with good size/average speed. The worst player that I included above, guys like Gabbert & Carter are far superior prospects but they too fit the bill as guys that have all the tools to be great yet aren't there yet.

Honestly the only reason I included Ezeh was because the ILB class includes very few players with the tools that aren't playing up to them. Not the most physically gifted class.

Also, Prince Amukamara would be an excellent injection of size & toughness into the Lions secondary. With so little talent at the position (not to mention solid value in Price) I'm not sure why you wouldn't strive to come away with a guy like Amukamara on draft day.


Because I don't think Prince will be able to cover WRs in the NFL ... I just don't see him as a starting CB in this league ... I don't care what his ranking is or what "value" he has ... if I do not think he'll ever be more than a nickel CB, I do not want my team to take him at 1.13 ...

We need help at CB, bad ... especially if Chris Houston ditches us ... but -- I like other prospects moreso(Harris, Williams, Smith) and we have a lot of other holes we could fill at that spot with guys like Ayers, Solder, Castonzo, Tyron Smith amongst others ...

keylime_5
01-21-2011, 11:12 AM
whaaaaaaa? Prince is gonna be a stud in the NFL. He went step for step with guys in college and made it look easy. I think it's more likely that he becomes closer to a shutdown corner than any cornerback that's come into the league since Revis (who is of course the epitome of a shutdown corner). He doesn't make the flashy plays of Peterson but his man to man coverage is spectacular.

keylime_5
01-21-2011, 11:13 AM
Mike Adams, Gabe Carimi, Josh Oglesby, Roger Saffold, and James Brewer. All current or future pros that saw Kerrigan up close the past two seasons.

if i remember correctly against Ohio State he played left end and beat Shugarts and our tight ends in the first half like a drum, and they also moved him around to DT and whatnot and he got pressure there. In the 2nd half I think they adjusted and shut him down though with double teams and stuff. Kerrigan definitely beat legit competition all year, the Big Ten is not the MAC.

SRogers92
01-21-2011, 11:14 AM
Revis wasn't an elite prospect coming out of college ... so why are you making that comparison? And - since you said he's elite, I'll change everything I've seen and think he's going to be great(sarcasm alert).

AntoinCD
01-21-2011, 11:19 AM
Because I don't think Prince will be able to cover WRs in the NFL ... I just don't see him as a starting CB in this league ... I don't care what his ranking is or what "value" he has ... if I do not think he'll ever be more than a nickel CB, I do not want my team to take him at 1.13 ...

We need help at CB, bad ... especially if Chris Houston ditches us ... but -- I like other prospects moreso(Harris, Williams, Smith) and we have a lot of other holes we could fill at that spot with guys like Ayers, Solder, Castonzo, Tyron Smith amongst others ...

Whoa I don't think I could disagree with this post any more than I do. What exactly have you seen that indicates that Amukamara will not be a good CB in the NFL? As a technician he is very good and his blend of size and speed is top notch. He is definitely a top 10 talent in my book and profiles as a #1 type CB.

As for the prospects you said you would prefer...you would rather have a soft LBer like Ayers, or two very big OTs who will get pushed about by guys 60lbs lighter like Solder and Castonzo or someone who has never played LT in college and currently weighs in the range of 285lbs in Smith?

If I was the Detroit front office, the only players I would take over Amukamara in any situation would be Robert Quinn, Da'Quan Bowers and maybe Patrick Peterson

SRogers92
01-21-2011, 12:35 PM
His size/speed ration is about average ... he doesn't appear very large on the film I've seen, the 6'0 or 6'1 that they list him at is probably going to be more like 5'10 or 5'11 ... which is fine if you have the other things, but -- he's not exactly a burner, either ... he gets by a lot on technique which is superb, but -- I don't think he has elite athleticism at all, to translate to the next level ... Blackmon exposed that ...

For all the "love" he gets for his support against the run, I've seen him play soft just as many times in the run game as well ... I think he translates better as a deep cover safety and I do not want the Lions take one of those at 1.13 ... again -- things could change at the combine if he measures in a lot better athletically than expected ... but -- I've been watching a ton of film on him lately anywhere that I can find it and am not thrilled and don't consider him an elite CB prospect at all.

SRogers92
01-21-2011, 12:42 PM
My other critique of him, that goes with my worries of his overall athleticism is he seems to play his best ball when he's in off coverage ... lining up about 6-7 yards deep ... He reacts very well in that situation ... however -- in press coverage, he has seemed extremely weak ... on several occasions in the '09 game vs. Texas, even with Suh molesting the OL of the Longhorns, Prince got beaten 4 or 5 times when he tried to press the WRs and also committed a defensive pass interference.

I think Nebraska knows his speed isn't all that great, so they line him off WRs a lot ... and he does well with that ... but -- mano v mano in press coverage or not even in press coverage, just tight coverage, he doesn't seem to do nearly as well ... that worries me against speedsters at the next level.

He reminds of Antrel Rolle or Marlin Jackson in terms of athleticism ... both guys could cover well, but -- just didn't have that speed you need at the next level to be stud DBs.

keylime_5
01-21-2011, 12:53 PM
Revis wasn't an elite prospect coming out of college ... so why are you making that comparison? And - since you said he's elite, I'll change everything I've seen and think he's going to be great(sarcasm alert).

idc if you change your opinion, it's just my opinion that youre quite off. I'm not comparing him to Revis in terms of a prospect either, just that he has a better chance to become a shutdown cover corner than any corner that came into the league since Revis (2007).

SRogers92
01-21-2011, 02:26 PM
Based on what? There's another corner in this very draft that will be taken over him ... but -- he has the best chance .... because you say so?

NotoriouZ
01-22-2011, 02:12 PM
Awesome Work! But I have one question, why you are so low on Adrian Clayborn??

ThePudge
01-22-2011, 03:53 PM
Awesome Work! But I have one question, why you are so low on Adrian Clayborn??

Because he didn't show up this season. He had a couple solid games, but he played at a fraction of his junior year self. Still a very good run-stuffer, but may not be a good enough pass-rusher to be considered in the 1st Round by 4-3 teams. Also, he might lack the necessary length to play 5-Tech. I just don't think the guy is a sure-fire 1st Round value in lieu of a very disappointing season.

2009: 70 Tackles 20 TFL 11.5 Sacks
2010: 52 Tackles 7 TFL 3.5 Sacks

Though he was held a lot this season and faced double teams, his dip in production was alarming, especially rushing the passer. He'll probably measure about 6'3 280 so he lacks great length along with missing an elite first step. He'll make a good LE in a 4-3 and he may even be able to move inside & play UT on 3rd Downs, but I don't know if this is a guy I want to use a very high pick on. I definitely didn't see anything this year to confirm the Top 10-15 grade many draft analysts slapped on him. Gabe Carimi (Wisconsin) pretty much completely neutralized him, Mike Adams (Ohio State) kept him off Terrelle Pryor all day, Kelechi Osemele (Iowa State) shut him down, and James Brewer (Indiana) was able to keep him from getting to the passer. He really didn't show up a lot of the times the Hawkeyes needed him and if I were scouting just this season, he'd be a 3rd Rounder at the very best.

I really don't think there is any way he fits into the Top 20-25 on draft day even despite a very weak class. If he absolutely annihilates the Senior Bowl I may be changing my tune. I think there's a very good chance Clayborn slides into the 2nd Round in April. If it weren't so easy to see why he appears in the Top 15 on so many boards (his 2009 season) I'd think the whole world had gone crazy.

ThePudge
01-22-2011, 04:12 PM
My other critique of him, that goes with my worries of his overall athleticism is he seems to play his best ball when he's in off coverage ... lining up about 6-7 yards deep ... He reacts very well in that situation ... however -- in press coverage, he has seemed extremely weak ... on several occasions in the '09 game vs. Texas, even with Suh molesting the OL of the Longhorns, Prince got beaten 4 or 5 times when he tried to press the WRs and also committed a defensive pass interference.

I think Nebraska knows his speed isn't all that great, so they line him off WRs a lot ... and he does well with that ... but -- mano v mano in press coverage or not even in press coverage, just tight coverage, he doesn't seem to do nearly as well ... that worries me against speedsters at the next level.

He reminds of Antrel Rolle or Marlin Jackson in terms of athleticism ... both guys could cover well, but -- just didn't have that speed you need at the next level to be stud DBs.

I think you're definitely underrating his athletic ability and I know you're underrating his size & physicality. He's definitely not 5'10-5'11, he's a legitimate 6'0 (at the smallest 5117.) He's not without his mistakes but I think he's a much better player than you're giving him credit for. Teams don't throw the ball to his side of the field because of the lockdown corner he is. He's very physical with receivers and covers them like a blanket downfield. I have seen a few occasions at the line of scrimmage where he's taken a false step and wound up getting beat because of it, but it seems like more of an error in technique/recognition (where he is usually solid) than a lack of athletic ability.

He was a monster this season when facing Blaine Gabbert and Missouri. He played to his shutdown abilities vs. Colorado, Washington, Texas, Kansas, Kansas State, and did a much better job against Texas A&M's Jeff Fuller than Patrick Peterson. Justin Blackmon was the only receiver to really get the best of him all season, but with exception of a little slip near the LOS (on the flea-flicker) Amukamara was draped over him all game.

Despite being thrown away from the large majority of the time, Amukamara finished with 13 Pass BrUps and 64 Tackles. He was a consensus All-American and possesses all the physical ability to be an excellent pro Defensive Back.The players to which he's compared most often (Antrel Rolle and Malcolm Jenkins) have also carved out niches in the NFL and developed into top players on each's defense. I'm not convinced he'll need to move to Safety, but wherever you put him I think he's a Top 15 value and a great pro.

SRogers92
01-22-2011, 04:17 PM
They may have carved out niches, but -- I'd bet you anything if they could go back in time, those teams would not have taken those guys at the spots they did ... So -- that doesn't really impress me, being compared to those fellas ... not to mention, those teams you listed he "shut down" ... not impressive, at all ... Hell - were any of those teams good this year?

He got abused by Blackmon on more than just a flea flicker play .. what are you talking about? You can the video all over the net ... it was around 4-5 plays he was beaten on, plus an embarassing defensive pass interference play ... he was FAR from "draped all over him," ... as stated, last years' Texas game was another one where he had some issues ... seems to me, when he's playing good WRs and he's forced to play tight coverage, he's not always there ...

I'll be interested to see how he checks in at the combine and how he grades out athletically, but -- so far, from what I've watched ... I don't see a top 10-15 player.