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Big_Pete
01-26-2011, 07:18 PM
I couldn't find any thread, so apologies if this has already been discussed.

Can someone provide some info on USC OT Tyron Smith? He seems to be a very intriguing prospect, particularly in this OT class.

I know he played RT for the Trojans, but he seems to have the athleticism to play LT and from all reports seems to have decent strength and leverage.

what is he like as a prospect?

D-Unit
01-26-2011, 07:21 PM
http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43761&highlight=tyron+smith

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44413&highlight=tyron+smith

Big_Pete
01-26-2011, 07:31 PM
http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43761&highlight=tyron+smith

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44413&highlight=tyron+smith

Thanks for the help D unit

Chidi29
01-26-2011, 09:01 PM
I like him a lot. He's obviously very athletic and pretty much looks like a tight end. You can read about that anywhere. Moves very well, quick feet, all that good stuff.

But his run blocking also looks excellent despite his size. He does a great job of getting his pad level low and getitng underneath defenders. He had a couple pancakes against Washington and consistently can drive defenders off the ball. He dominated Mason Foster.

He has a really good motor and his feet are always moving a hundred miles an hour.

Yeah, he's a smaller guy. I don't care. He's as good of a run blocker as a lot of the guys in this class.

I think he'll be an All-Star and wouldn't hesitate to put him as my #1 tackle.

SimonRath
01-26-2011, 11:56 PM
I think he'll be an All-Star and wouldn't hesitate to put him as my #1 tackle.

dunk contest?

Mr. Goosemahn
02-13-2011, 03:03 PM
Couple updates on the guy:

- He has bulked up to 304 lbs.
- Might not run the 40 in combine due to knee procedure.

If the 304 is legit, that's pretty impressive.

SimonRath
02-13-2011, 03:11 PM
Couple updates on the guy:

- He has bulked up to 304 lbs.
- Might not run the 40 in combine due to knee procedure.

If the 304 is legit, that's pretty impressive.

if he weighs in at 304 then his stock just rose

yourfavestoner
02-13-2011, 03:14 PM
Couple updates on the guy:

- He has bulked up to 304 lbs.
- Might not run the 40 in combine due to knee procedure.

If the 304 is legit, that's pretty impressive.

Getting to 304 through mass training before the combine and maintaining 304 over the course of an NFL season are two completely different things.

I like him much more than I did Charles Brown last year. But I still think it will take a few seasons before he's anything other than a massive liability in the run game a la D'Brickashaw.

Mr. Goosemahn
02-13-2011, 03:15 PM
if he weighs in at 304 then his stock just rose

He wants to weigh in at 310, so I guess he's pretty close.

If he doesn't lose any of his athleticism and speed after gaining 30 lbs., I'd be thoroughly impressed.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
02-13-2011, 03:16 PM
if he weighs in at 304 then my dick just rose

Understatement.

SimonRath
02-13-2011, 03:30 PM
Understatement.

thou shall not fap

TACKLE
02-13-2011, 03:38 PM
Getting to 304 through mass training before the combine and maintaining 304 over the course of an NFL season are two completely different things.

I like him much more than I did Charles Brown last year. But I still think it will take a few seasons before he's anything other than a massive liability in the run game a la D'Brickashaw.

Because of his weight, Tyron gets the tag as a finesse player but is actually a much better run blocker than he gets credit for. He has very good natural strength,gets consistent push in the run game and is more than just a positional blocker. He's also one of the best OT's at the second level I can remember in recent years. Now I'm not under the impression that he's going to overpower guys at the next level (especially when he drops back down to 285 as the season goes on) but he'll be a stronger, more physical run blocker than D'Brick was early on in his career.

Nebula
02-13-2011, 04:46 PM
Couple updates on the guy:

- He has bulked up to 304 lbs.
- Might not run the 40 in combine due to knee procedure.

If the 304 is legit, that's pretty impressive.

Just where did you hear this? I'll believe it when I see it

Can he gain 30 pounds without losing some of quickness and agility? Is it all muscle or will he just trim down once the season begins like D'brickashaw did? Will his high metabolism keep him from keeping his weight high in the NFL? Regardless, I really can't wait to see him at the combine.

Scott Wright
02-13-2011, 05:10 PM
Not surprised at all, I've been saying he's guaranteed to be 300+ by the Combine.

rawdawg
02-13-2011, 08:04 PM
Not surprised at all, I've been saying he's guaranteed to be 300+ by the Combine.

Me too. I have been telling a buddy of mine this for 2 months. He had since early December (thanks to USC probation and no bowl game) to simply work on bulking up and getting stronger. He declared really early and presumably got a head start working on the things to make himself more favorable to NFL eyes.

brat316
02-13-2011, 08:11 PM
Yeah in the run game he plows through guys, the guy is a bodybuilder, and his strength seems to translate. Its his so called athleticism that doesn't, you see flashes of it. He gets beat in the pass protection.

I think he is a great second round tackle someone who you don't need to play right away. He need technique work. I think the guy from Nova goes before him.

Scott Wright
02-13-2011, 08:26 PM
I think he is a great second round tackle someone who you don't need to play right away. He need technique work. I think the guy from Nova goes before him.

Second Round? Try Top 15 - 20 Overall.

Mr. Goosemahn
02-13-2011, 08:34 PM
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/44/441092.jpg

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/44/441093.jpg

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/44/441094.jpg

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/44/441097.jpg

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/44/441098.jpg

I'm guessing he added a bit more muscle, but mainly fat/bulk?

Here's some footage on him.

K3HKsYCCXGk

Mr. Goosemahn
02-13-2011, 08:36 PM
Second Round? Try Top 15 - 20 Overall.

Scott, if he does indeed check in at 310 without losing speed/athleticism, could he go top 10?

And how does he compare to the top tackles from the past years? Like, if you had to rank Trent Williams, Russell Okung, Brian Bulaga, and those guys with Tyron Smith, where would he be?

TACKLE
02-13-2011, 08:37 PM
I'm guessing he added a bit more muscle, but mainly fat/bulk?

Well those pics are from high school so I would assume so.

Mr. Goosemahn
02-13-2011, 08:49 PM
Well those pics are from high school so I would assume so.

Yeah, I was just wondering if you guys thought he'd look as lean and ripped at the combine, or if he'd look a bit more ... offensive lineman like.



LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

http://cdn.faniq.com/images/blog/f1eab040af3a7041f8e790b39b09e57c.jpg

LonghornsLegend
02-13-2011, 09:29 PM
I'm intrigued by him, think he has the skills to be a very good LT and his athleticism is very enticing. I would love a trade back to the teens to land this guy, I know he has concerns about his run blocking or strength but if he's in a spread offense I doubt you see those concerns come to light.

cajuncorey
02-13-2011, 09:45 PM
looks like a smaller version of bruce campbell. unless he puts some weight on he wont be any better than bruce. hes the smallest Offensive lineman ive seen in years. and putting on 30 pounds in a span of 3 months isnt exactly good weight. intriguing prospect none the less

descendency
02-13-2011, 09:50 PM
looks like a smaller version of bruce campbell. unless he puts some weight on he wont be any better than bruce. hes the smallest Offensive lineman ive seen in years. and putting on 30 pounds in a span of 3 months isnt exactly good weight. intriguing prospect none the less

lol, no. Bruce Campbell sucked ass over and over and over. Tyron Smith shut down a top 10 pick in Cameron Jordan.

edit: if he is a legit 310 at the combine with high athleticism (with how garbage this tackle class is at the very top), he may have jumped in the top 10.

yourfavestoner
02-13-2011, 09:51 PM
looks like a smaller version of bruce campbell. unless he puts some weight on he wont be any better than bruce. hes the smallest Offensive lineman ive seen in years. and putting on 30 pounds in a span of 3 months isnt exactly good weight. intriguing prospect none the less

God damn, thank you. Somebody finally gets in. Like I keep saying, piling on weight for the combine weigh in and actually playing at that weight (and keeping it on over the course of a grueling 20 week NFL season are completely different things.

cajuncorey
02-13-2011, 09:52 PM
lol, no. Bruce Campbell sucked ass over and over and over. Tyron Smith shut down a top 10 pick in Cameron Jordan.

edit: if he is a legit 310 at the combine with high athleticism (with how garbage this tackle class is at the very top), he may have jumped in the top 10.

i was talking about physical stature. not playing style homie.

D-Unit
02-14-2011, 01:11 AM
The people who criticized him because of his weight are now wishing they kept their mouths shut.

I tried to tell you. ;)

rawdawg
02-14-2011, 09:37 AM
God damn, thank you. Somebody finally gets in. Like I keep saying, piling on weight for the combine weigh in and actually playing at that weight (and keeping it on over the course of a grueling 20 week NFL season are completely different things.

You can say that about everyone in the NFL though. Casey Hampton shows up to camp for the Steelers at 370 every year, but doesn't play at that weight. Bottom line is that is shows that Tyron can put on weight and get stronger. Meaning in 2-3 years, his playing weight will be where it needs to be to be an NFL lineman.

SenorGato
02-14-2011, 12:06 PM
God damn, thank you. Somebody finally gets in. Like I keep saying, piling on weight for the combine weigh in and actually playing at that weight (and keeping it on over the course of a grueling 20 week NFL season are completely different things.

D'Brickashaw Ferguson had the same thing going on...went to combine around 312....finished his rookie season maybe somewhere in the 280's....D'Brick's a top tier tackle...If Smith can hold the weight well then there's no issue...these guys are still kids for the most part and few, if any, are at their future playing weight right now.

fear the elf
02-14-2011, 12:14 PM
You can say that about everyone in the NFL though. Casey Hampton shows up to camp for the Steelers at 370 every year, but doesn't play at that weight. Bottom line is that is shows that Tyron can put on weight and get stronger. Meaning in 2-3 years, his playing weight will be where it needs to be to be an NFL lineman.

Problem is, adding weight is not a direct correlation to getting stronger. Not all weight is good weight (i.e. muscle). Just because he can add weight (fat or muscle) doesn't mean he can add good weight (muscle). Just wanted to clear that up.

SenorGato
02-14-2011, 12:39 PM
Problem is, adding weight is not a direct correlation to getting stronger. Not all weight is good weight (i.e. muscle). Just because he can add weight (fat or muscle) doesn't mean he can add good weight (muscle). Just wanted to clear that up.

These guys aren't packing on fat for the combine and calling it good weight...well there's a few guys...but Smith doesn't strike me as one of those guys. Most of these guys are going through very well thought out pre-combine workouts...especially a kid from USC.

fear the elf
02-14-2011, 12:47 PM
These guys aren't packing on fat for the combine and calling it good weight...well there's a few guys...but Smith doesn't strike me as one of those guys. Most of these guys are going through very well thought out pre-combine workouts...especially a kid from USC.

Look, I don't know much about this guy, his weight, etc. Haven't watched any USC games this year. But someone said something to the effect of "gaining 30 pounds in 3 months." If this is the case, he's on the roids or he's adding a decent amount of fat.

Anyway, my main point I was trying to make was that, just because a guy adds weight doesn't mean he's adding strength, which is what Rawdawg had said.

Bottom line is that is shows that Tyron can put on weight and get stronger.

killxswitch
02-14-2011, 12:58 PM
If he was a ripped 280 then adding some fat along with muscle is not a bad thing. Offensive linemen don't need to be ripped. Then need to be strong, agile, and hard to move. Also, if he is 304 lbs. then he did not put on 30 lbs, he put on 24. That's a significant difference.

It will be interesting to see how he does at the combine. Did he put on quality lbs. or Aaron Maybin lbs?

fear the elf
02-14-2011, 01:10 PM
If he was a ripped 280 then adding some fat along with muscle is not a bad thing. Offensive linemen don't need to be ripped. Then need to be strong, agile, and hard to move. Also, if he is 304 lbs. then he did not put on 30 lbs, he put on 24. That's a significant difference.

It will be interesting to see how he does at the combine. Did he put on quality lbs. or Aaron Maybin lbs?

6 pounds of muscle would be significant. 6 pounds of fat is not.

Alright, I'm done arguing this. It's not that big of a deal. :)

cajuncorey
02-14-2011, 01:22 PM
If he was a ripped 280 then adding some fat along with muscle is not a bad thing. Offensive linemen don't need to be ripped. Then need to be strong, agile, and hard to move. Also, if he is 304 lbs. then he did not put on 30 lbs, he put on 24. That's a significant difference.

It will be interesting to see how he does at the combine. Did he put on quality lbs. or Aaron Maybin lbs?

he plans to be 310 at the combine. thats what we are refering to. and 24 pounds in 3 months is also not going to be great weight that he has put on homie

rawdawg
02-14-2011, 03:33 PM
Look, I don't know much about this guy, his weight, etc. Haven't watched any USC games this year. But someone said something to the effect of "gaining 30 pounds in 3 months." If this is the case, he's on the roids or he's adding a decent amount of fat.

Anyway, my main point I was trying to make was that, just because a guy adds weight doesn't mean he's adding strength, which is what Rawdawg had said.

Obviously weight does not directly equal strength. But I thought we were all at the point where we could assume he just isn't sitting around eating jelly donuts to show NFL scouts he could get to 310. It can be assumed he's doing it by (in part) strength training. Or else, he would be getting bigger for the sake of getting bigger, which does him no good.

descendency
02-14-2011, 03:37 PM
He was plenty strong at 280 LBs. Adding 25+ LBs can only increase that. It might hurt him in terms of athleticism, but if he's 305+ with similar athleticism to what he had, he's going to be the #1 OT.

umphrey
02-14-2011, 04:10 PM
I don't understand the love for this guy. He was undersized in college and didn't even play left tackle. Didn't play against any decent defensive ends in college either (correct me if I'm wrong). I have no idea why people are so confident he can add weight, switch to a harder position, and go against far superior competition (even more so than the other top tackles moving to the NFL) - and not only compete, but succeed.

Playing at 280 in college and getting blocks on the second level is completely different than playing at 305+ and doing it in the NFL.

San Diego Chicken
02-14-2011, 04:19 PM
I don't understand the love for this guy. He was undersized in college and didn't even play left tackle. Didn't play against any decent defensive ends in college either (correct me if I'm wrong). I have no idea why people are so confident he can add weight, switch to a harder position, and go against far superior competition (even more so than the other top tackles moving to the NFL) - and not only compete, but succeed.

Playing at 280 in college and getting blocks on the second level is completely different than playing at 305+ and doing it in the NFL.

Someone already mentioned he played against Cam Jordan, also Brooks Reed, Ricky Elmore, Alualu and Heyward in 09, probably forgetting some guys not to mention Nick Perry in practice every day... I think Smith as a top 10 prospect is really pushing it however.

descendency
02-14-2011, 04:32 PM
Didn't play against any decent defensive ends in college either (correct me if I'm wrong).

Cam Jordan

Babylon
02-14-2011, 04:54 PM
I don't understand the love for this guy. He was undersized in college and didn't even play left tackle. Didn't play against any decent defensive ends in college either (correct me if I'm wrong). I have no idea why people are so confident he can add weight, switch to a harder position, and go against far superior competition (even more so than the other top tackles moving to the NFL) - and not only compete, but succeed.

Playing at 280 in college and getting blocks on the second level is completely different than playing at 305+ and doing it in the NFL.

I wouldnt worry as much about playing RT because with Matt Kalil moving into the starting lineup the Trojans probably didnt want two guys being new at their positions. Kalil by the way is probably a pro bowl tackle down the road.

As for all the guys he went up against it should be pointed out that teams like Arizona and Cal switch their ends quite a bit so he isnt facing these guys on every play. I thought he had more trouble with the Oregon and Stanford guys.

To sum it up he could be the top OT taken but i dont think he's as good as the top few guys from last year, Okung, Williams and Bulaga.

D-Unit
02-14-2011, 04:55 PM
I don't understand the love for this guy. He was undersized in college and didn't even play left tackle. Didn't play against any decent defensive ends in college either (correct me if I'm wrong). I have no idea why people are so confident he can add weight, switch to a harder position, and go against far superior competition (even more so than the other top tackles moving to the NFL) - and not only compete, but succeed.

Playing at 280 in college and getting blocks on the second level is completely different than playing at 305+ and doing it in the NFL.
You don't know why people would like a strong, athletic, long armed tackle with nimble feet, great balance, and unlimited potential from one of the top football programs in the nation? Hmmm... *shrugs*

brat316
02-14-2011, 05:56 PM
If he fails, I can see him being a killer OG. Man is a killer in the run game. I think his only problem is taking on speed rushers. Bull rushes he can handle but when guys go on the edge thats his problem. Could be a good guard if he fails at T.

umphrey
02-14-2011, 06:22 PM
If he fails, I can see him being a killer OG. Man is a killer in the run game. I think his only problem is taking on speed rushers. Bull rushes he can handle but when guys go on the edge thats his problem. Could be a good guard if he fails at T.
I agree with this. I could see him being a quality guard that can pull and/or get to the second level, but I don't think he can do that from the tackle position, on either side.

LonghornsLegend
02-14-2011, 06:32 PM
Cam Jordan

And he handled Cam Jordan as well also.

D-Unit
02-14-2011, 06:35 PM
I agree with this. I could see him being a quality guard that can pull and/or get to the second level, but I don't think he can do that from the tackle position, on either side.
Why not? Do you have an explanation that's more than a hunch?

yourfavestoner
02-14-2011, 10:48 PM
I don't doubt that he can become a top flight NFL tackle whatsoever. I acknowledge his incredible upside and realize he is much more than an athlete playing tackle a la Bruce Campbell. He also has a nasty, aggressive demeanor in run blocking which is a huge plus. I'm just saying that at that size and with that frame, he's probably not going to contribute much, if anything, in the running game for at least two or three seasons.

Someone brought up D'Brickashaw...and while D'Brick has developed into one of the top LTs in the league, it took him a much longer time than his contemporaries like Joe Thomas and Jake Long. Even guys like Jamaal Brown, Marcus McNeil, and Ryan Clady provided more immediate impact than D'Brick, although the latter two have regressed terribly as their careers have gone on. He's developed into a good LT, yes, but it took him awhile before he was even competent in run blocking, and he would really wear down during the stretch of the season as he lost weight.

In an OT class as weak as this one, I can understand Smith being the first tackle off the board, especially considering his high upside. Just keep expectations tempered for a for a couple of seasons.

Saints-Tigers
02-14-2011, 11:24 PM
Just want to say, adding fat isn't always bad for some guys. It might not directly add weight room strength, but for moving bodies, that extra weight equals momentum, and ability to anchor, and lean guys like Smith can sometimes add some fat weight and not suffer anything significant to their athleticism.

D-Unit
02-15-2011, 01:13 AM
I don't doubt that he can become a top flight NFL tackle whatsoever. I acknowledge his incredible upside and realize he is much more than an athlete playing tackle a la Bruce Campbell. He also has a nasty, aggressive demeanor in run blocking which is a huge plus. I'm just saying that at that size and with that frame, he's probably not going to contribute much, if anything, in the running game for at least two or three seasons.

Someone brought up D'Brickashaw...and while D'Brick has developed into one of the top LTs in the league, it took him a much longer time than his contemporaries like Joe Thomas and Jake Long. Even guys like Jamaal Brown, Marcus McNeil, and Ryan Clady provided more immediate impact than D'Brick, although the latter two have regressed terribly as their careers have gone on. He's developed into a good LT, yes, but it took him awhile before he was even competent in run blocking, and he would really wear down during the stretch of the season as he lost weight.

In an OT class as weak as this one, I can understand Smith being the first tackle off the board, especially considering his high upside. Just keep expectations tempered for a for a couple of seasons.
Totally agree. Even as a fan, I've said before that it'll take him a while to ascend to where he needs to be. Before then, there will be growing pains.

batman15
02-15-2011, 03:17 PM
He's like a TE in terms of athleticism. He'll be a good late round pick up. I can see him being like that guy from Maryland last year that is on the Raiders.

descendency
02-15-2011, 03:19 PM
He's like a TE in terms of athleticism. He'll be a good late round pick up. I can see him being like that guy from Maryland last year that is on the Raiders.

Except Bruce Campbell sucked on film and Tyron Smith doesn't. I can understand the concern about his frame, but this guy is great on film in spite of his obvious flaws.

Babylon
02-15-2011, 03:36 PM
He's like a TE in terms of athleticism. He'll be a good late round pick up. I can see him being like that guy from Maryland last year that is on the Raiders.

Probably more like a Joe Staley, an athletic former TE type. The question with some of these guys isnt movement it's strength at the point of attack.

yourfavestoner
03-11-2011, 01:00 PM
Just watched every down he played in the USC v. Cal (http://www.youtube.com/user/AloAloysius#p/u/23/K3HKsYCCXGk) game.

The Good:
-Does a very good job in swinging his hips in the run game in order to put his body between the ball carrier and his defender
-Gets to the second level very easily
-Natural athleticism jumps off the screen

The Bad:
-Stops his feet on contact against LOS defenders, allowing them to disengage and get off of him
-Has a poor base and plays too tall
-Defensive linemen are able to get under him and get their hands inside of him in pass pro
-Turns his shoulders too often in pass pro

All in all, he's a nice prospect. I continue to echo my sentiments, though, that you're not going to get a very productive football player for at least a season or two because of his lack of functional strength. It's glaring.

ellsy82
03-11-2011, 01:13 PM
Its gonna be interesting this year with the Raiders not picking in the first round. Where will he go? Could be top 10...could be bottom 10. Depends on the team that thinks he fits the most. I see those teams (pass happy, less run-first teams) towards the end of the first round. I'm sure some team will be stupid enough to take him in the top 10 though.

Babylon
03-11-2011, 01:29 PM
Its gonna be interesting this year with the Raiders not picking in the first round. Where will he go? Could be top 10...could be bottom 10. Depends on the team that thinks he fits the most. I see those teams (pass happy, less run-first teams) towards the end of the first round. I'm sure some team will be stupid enough to take him in the top 10 though.

I think if he's there when Seattle picks he would probably be their RT opposite Okung for the next 10 years. That would be assuming one of the top 3 QBs are gone.

Iamcanadian
03-11-2011, 01:33 PM
Of course, it all depends on his pro day but if it's good, hello a possible top 10.

ellsy82
03-11-2011, 01:33 PM
That would probably be ideal. He's young, depending on how well he does he could eventually be swap sides with Okung or...forgive me for saying this, but be a lot of trade bait if he does well in his first contract.

Babylon
03-11-2011, 01:39 PM
That would probably be ideal. He's young, depending on how well he does he could eventually be swap sides with Okung or...forgive me for saying this, but be a lot of trade bait if he does well in his first contract.

I dont ever see him being in Okung's class to be honest, RT is one of many needs though for Seattle.

ellsy82
03-11-2011, 01:43 PM
I dont ever see him being in Okung's class to be honest, RT is one of many needs though for Seattle.

True, but he has the potential to be a LT...he just doesn't have the experience or coaching at the position. He's not overly dominant in run blocking. Good, but not great.

I'm pretty sure Indy or the Giants will take him before Seattle will.

Babylon
03-11-2011, 01:47 PM
True, but he has the potential to be a LT...he just doesn't have the experience or coaching at the position. He's not overly dominant in run blocking. Good, but not great.

I'm pretty sure Indy or the Giants will take him before Seattle will.

You're probably right that he will be gone, Seattle will be left with some 27 year old guard that used to work at Costco.

keylime_5
03-11-2011, 01:49 PM
right now i'll be greatly surprised if he makes it past 13th overall. I think Minnesota could be a real potential landing spot too. I would say top ten, but there's so much good talent and the teams picking in the top ten don't have as big of a need for a tackle that they're gonna pass on guys like Amukamara, Jones, Quinn, etc. for him.

TheFinisher
04-04-2011, 11:50 AM
Bump.

Now that his Pro Day has come and gone, where do you stand on him?

K Train
04-04-2011, 11:54 AM
im thoroughly impressed with him, especially his weight....if he can keep 315 through training camp and his rookie year thats an excellent weight for him.

so strong and a good run blocker because he so low (being that hes not that tall to begin with) but has extremely long arms and is an insane athlete. hes helped himself a ton in my eyes, i personally feel that hes a better prospect than jason smith was a few years ago (similar athletes imo)

better than baker and brown were as far as LTs from USC go, possibly the best USC prospect since reggie bush...i think top 10 hype is legit now

Iamcanadian
04-04-2011, 12:05 PM
I'd say at this point, he has the potential to go top 10, he's D'Brickashaw Ferguson all over again. There is zero chance he gets out of tghe top 15.
He was very solid at his pro day at holding the point of attack and showed the feet and body to mirror a pass rusher. He is also viewed as solid enough to play RT if needed and be a run blocker. I think he will play at 315 with no trouble.

bitonti
04-04-2011, 12:25 PM
I'd say at this point, he has the potential to go top 10, he's D'Brickashaw Ferguson all over again.

yeah if Brick only played 16 games at Right tackle

Tyron Smith is very very overrated. the only question is will teams buy into that overrate or will they suss it out. I think they suss it out and guys like carimi and castonzo go higher.

People just sort of brush right by the right tackle thing, it's a very big deal for linemen. Why didn't this guy play LT at USC? also starts are very important, Carimi and Castonzo both started 50+ games that's what the NFL wants.

Iamcanadian
04-04-2011, 12:35 PM
yeah if Brick only played 16 games at Right tackle

Tyron Smith is very very overrated. the only question is will teams buy into that overrate or will they suss it out. I think they suss it out and guys like carimi and castonzo go higher.

People just sort of brush right by the right tackle thing, it's a very big deal for linemen. Why didn't this guy play LT at USC? also starts are very important, Carimi and Castonzo both started 50+ games that's what the NFL wants.

They are already saying on NFL Network that Smith is head and shoulders ahead of every other OT in this year's draft, it isn't even close.
He played LT as a freshman but USC has a very solid pro prospect already playing the position before Smith came on the scene and saw no reason to switch them and put him at RT to get him into the starting lineup. USC has that kind of talent.
The fact that he is getting top 10 talk not having played the position last year, just shows how talented this guy is, with an upside that is off the charts.

bitonti
04-04-2011, 01:27 PM
They are already saying on NFL Network that Smith is head and shoulders ahead of every other OT in this year's draft, it isn't even close.

The fact that he is getting top 10 talk not having played the position last year, just shows how talented this guy is, with an upside that is off the charts.


Tyron Smith is the Cam Newton of tackles. 1 year wonder who will get over-drafted based on upside. Newton at least has won a championship. I don't know what Smith has done.

Ya know who loves it when Carolina takes Newton at 1 or Dallas take Smith at 9? Every other team... when someone they really want makes it down.

Babylon
04-04-2011, 02:55 PM
They are already saying on NFL Network that Smith is head and shoulders ahead of every other OT in this year's draft, it isn't even close.
He played LT as a freshman but USC has a very solid pro prospect already playing the position before Smith came on the scene and saw no reason to switch them and put him at RT to get him into the starting lineup. USC has that kind of talent.
The fact that he is getting top 10 talk not having played the position last year, just shows how talented this guy is, with an upside that is off the charts.

My recollection was he was a backup as a freshman and then played the last two years at RT. What SC was saying was that they had Kalil starting this year at LT and didnt want two guys to be playing new positions.

I think he's good but not that sure he is the best tackle in this draft, athletic guys that play that position usually do good with speed rushers and tend to struggle against guys with a strong bull rush and Smith appeared that way this past year to me.

K Train
04-04-2011, 03:07 PM
i still think carimi is the best tackle in the draft...his floor is way higher than smiths, but smith has a much higher ceiling.

i actually like carimi and cannon the most as far as tackles go, they are just RTs

D-Unit
04-04-2011, 03:46 PM
Tyron Smith is the Cam Newton of tackles. 1 year wonder who will get over-drafted based on upside. Newton at least has won a championship. I don't know what Smith has done.

Ya know who loves it when Carolina takes Newton at 1 or Dallas take Smith at 9? Every other team... when someone they really want makes it down.
This is too funny. You're talking about judging an OT based on whether or not he won a championship? hahahaha. Nice! :D

Also, saying he's the best tackle in this draft is really not saying a lot. This draft class for OTs is mediocre at best.

Is the experience at LT there? No. Will every team that looks at him look at him as a LT? No. Dallas won't be. So the experience there is hardly a concern to fuss over.

Will he come into the league and be the next Joe Thomas? Hell no. But did Russell Okung and Trent Williams last year? No. Did D'brick star from the moment he stepped on the field? No, but he's turned into a franchise player now. I think Smith will need time to develop just the same. He's only 20 years old afterall. Find me a tackle in this class who matches upside. Find his flaws... Are they uncorrectable? Tell me his highest risk factors. Let's judge and discuss if he will bust if he doesn't correct them.

You sound very passionate about this, so I'm excited to see your response.

D-Unit
04-04-2011, 03:48 PM
i still think carimi is the best tackle in the draft...his floor is way higher than smiths, but smith has a much higher ceiling.

i actually like carimi and cannon the most as far as tackles go, they are just RTs
I agree that Carimi and others have higher floors than Smith.

I think Cannon has the makings of a pro bowl Guard or avg Tackle. I'd draft him as a Guard.

SenorGato
04-04-2011, 04:51 PM
I'd say at this point, he has the potential to go top 10, he's D'Brickashaw Ferguson all over again. There is zero chance he gets out of tghe top 15.
He was very solid at his pro day at holding the point of attack and showed the feet and body to mirror a pass rusher. He is also viewed as solid enough to play RT if needed and be a run blocker. I think he will play at 315 with no trouble.

He wishes he was D'Brick. D'Brick would have went top 5 in '05 if he came out, and when he did come out he was a lock for the top 5 in an absolutely loaded draft.

I would take both Camiri and Castonzo before I took Smith at T.

D-Unit
04-04-2011, 04:58 PM
He wishes he was D'Brick. D'Brick would have went top 5 in '05 if he came out, and when he did come out he was a lock for the top 5 in an absolutely loaded draft.

I would take both Camiri and Castonzo before I took Smith at T.
I love the comments, but what kind of basis allowed you to form your opinion?

bitonti
04-04-2011, 05:27 PM
You sound very passionate about this, so I'm excited to see your response.

I just don't like outrageous projections. Like taking a defensive tackle with 2 career sacks and claiming he can be a 10 sack a year guy in the NFL. If the dude didn't get er done in the NCAA he's not getting it done in the NFL. I also like how USC's left tackle is so good no one knows his name. Im sorry but if the college coach doesn't think a player is suited for left tackle than it's unlikely that player will make the jump in the NFL. Highly unlikely.

I love the tackle class, every year I talk alot of crap about the draft, but my tackle rankings are always done with care and I stand by those things. I Had Jamaal Brown over Alex Barron. I had Michael Oher as the #1 tackle his year. This year I believe Carimi and Castonzo are both better left tackles than Tyron Smith.

Note I don't really have a problem with Smith going in the 20s based on potential. I have a problem with him going 9. but if gonna draft purely on potential Nate Solder is a rarer athlete. I have a problem with the group-think where everyone repeats everything they hear, no one actually watches the film.

on film Tyron Smith is not a Dbrick or a Ryan Clady. He doesn't have that kinda of skill.

D-Unit
04-04-2011, 06:06 PM
I just don't like outrageous projections. Like taking a defensive tackle with 2 career sacks and claiming he can be a 10 sack a year guy in the NFL. If the dude didn't get er done in the NCAA he's not getting it done in the NFL. I also like how USC's left tackle is so good no one knows his name. Im sorry but if the college coach doesn't think a player is suited for left tackle than it's unlikely that player will make the jump in the NFL. Highly unlikely.

I love the tackle class, every year I talk alot of crap about the draft, but my tackle rankings are always done with care and I stand by those things. I Had Jamaal Brown over Alex Barron. I had Michael Oher as the #1 tackle his year. This year I believe Carimi and Castonzo are both better left tackles than Tyron Smith.

Note I don't really have a problem with Smith going in the 20s based on potential. I have a problem with him going 9. but if gonna draft purely on potential Nate Solder is a rarer athlete. I have a problem with the group-think where everyone repeats everything they hear, no one actually watches the film.

on film Tyron Smith is not a Dbrick or a Ryan Clady. He doesn't have that kinda of skill.
Actually Matt Kalil, USC's current LT IS someone A LOT of people know about. Don't be surprised if he's talked about a Top 5-10 pick next year. He's the reason why Smith played RT.

As for the tackle class, my guess is that you love it for it's depth, but I can't believe you love it for the amount of elite tackles there are.

As for saying Carimi and Castonzo will be better LTs than Smith... to be honest, I'm not sure you or anyone else for that matter will ever get the chance to see him play LT on the NFL level. Not if the Cowboys draft him, that is. If he does get a chance to play LT, I see no reason other than lack of previous college experience that would give anyone a real cause for concern.

When you say he doesn't have that kind of skill, what exactly are you pin pointing. What traits/measurables are you grading?

bitonti
04-04-2011, 07:39 PM
As for saying Carimi and Castonzo will be better LTs than Smith... to be honest, I'm not sure you or anyone else for that matter will ever get the chance to see him play LT on the NFL level.
When you say he doesn't have that kind of skill, what exactly are you pin pointing. What traits/measurables are you grading?


if he doesn't play LT he's not worth a top 10 pick that's pretty much the story with Smith

I am not concerned about his measurables but I also don't believe he has any spectacular ones... Brick had a ridiculous wingspan and put up over 30 reps at 225. Jake Long was a rare huge beast. Ryan Clady had feet like a basketball player.

The starts concern me. Joe Thomas I would put in with Carimi and Castonzo as "battle tested" when a dude starts 50+ times at a big 10 or ACC school that's special. I also like Lee Ziemba who holds Auburn's record for consecutive starts.

I don't know what Tyron Smith does so well other than look good in his undies. He plays high and loses contain to lower players. Check his film vs Oregon State, Stephen Paea owns him.

Like I said all this doesn't add up to "he terrible" I just think he's about 10 slots too high right now. if the Eagles draft him at 23 to play right tackle for Vick's blind side it's a smarter pick than if the Cowboys do it for Romo's front side.

Babylon
04-04-2011, 07:44 PM
if he doesn't play LT he's not worth a top 10 pick that's pretty much the story with Smith

I am not concerned about his measurables but I also don't believe he has any spectacular ones... Brick had a ridiculous wingspan and put up over 30 reps at 225. Jake Long was a rare huge beast. Ryan Clady had feet like a basketball player.

The starts concern me. Joe Thomas I would put in with Carimi and Castonzo as "battle tested" when a dude starts 50+ times at a big 10 or ACC school that's special. I also like Lee Ziemba who holds Auburn's record for consecutive starts.

I don't know what Tyron Smith does so well other than look good in his undies. He plays high and loses contain to lower players. Check his film vs Oregon State, Stephen Paea owns him.

Like I said all this doesn't add up to "he terrible" I just think he's about 10 slots too high right now. if the Eagles draft him at 23 to play right tackle for Vick's blind side it's a smarter pick than if the Cowboys do it for Romo's front side.

I think top 10 is too high also but someone like Dallas who could use a RT could draft Smith and then not worry about the position for the next 10 years. I might be a little over the hill in my thinking but years ago i dont remember the mad love for a guy having to be a LT to be any good.

D-Unit
04-04-2011, 07:58 PM
if he doesn't play LT he's not worth a top 10 pick that's pretty much the story with Smith

I am not concerned about his measurables but I also don't believe he has any spectacular ones... Brick had a ridiculous wingspan and put up over 30 reps at 225. Jake Long was a rare huge beast. Ryan Clady had feet like a basketball player.

The starts concern me. Joe Thomas I would put in with Carimi and Castonzo as "battle tested" when a dude starts 50+ times at a big 10 or ACC school that's special. I also like Lee Ziemba who holds Auburn's record for consecutive starts.

I don't know what Tyron Smith does so well other than look good in his undies. He plays high and loses contain to lower players. Check his film vs Oregon State, Stephen Paea owns him.

Like I said all this doesn't add up to "he terrible" I just think he's about 10 slots too high right now. if the Eagles draft him at 23 to play right tackle for Vick's blind side it's a smarter pick than if the Cowboys do it for Romo's front side.
Agree or disagree: Do you think that Tyron Smith's game tape provides a completely accurate picture of him now? 20-25 pounds later?

For me, I disagree. I think the added weight will have a marked difference in his play... both for good and bad. ie. He may not be as mobile, but he may have a stronger base. So it makes it really hard to judge him based of film, seeing as he's got a significantly different body. When you're judging Smith now, all you really have are his pro day and combine stuff to gauge.

So that said, you may feel justified in your thoughts based off old game tape, but I can't take that as a complete picture, even though I would love to. I think there are a lot of things to like about him on film.

As for not taking or taking a RT in the Top 10... I don't know if that's old school mentality or the way of the future. I think you'll find argument for both sides. In today's NFL, defenses are moving their best DEs around or trying to have a solid attack on both sides in order to have the most success.

SenorGato
04-04-2011, 09:33 PM
The added weight means nothing...D'Brick went to combine at 315 to please everyone...by the end of his rookie season he was in his 280s...D'Brick was a more battle tested and straight up better prospect than Smith....and nowhere near as lean...Smith is closer to guys like Bruce Campbell than he is the elite LT prospects of the past 5-6 years....he's got the USC thing to hold onto and that probably will help him.

SenorGato
04-04-2011, 09:42 PM
I love the comments, but what kind of basis allowed you to form your opinion?

- D'Brick just was a better prospect. That one is easy to prove. D'Brick was pretty much the first of the elite young LT run...after him Thomas, Long, Clady, and others started showing up into the league, including two Virginia teammates. He was an All American two years in a row, and staying for his senior year was a surprise. He held his prospect status and then some...because it came in a class with Mario Williams, Reggie Bush, AJ Hawk, Vernon Davis, and the 3 QBs...basically Smith isn't on his level.

- Camiri and Castonzo both hold their weight just as well, have more experience, are better run blockers, come from programs well known for good OL prospects...both are very capable pass blockers...strong athletes...more well rounded...I could see someone buying Smith early because of his school and his workout numbers and his upside....but I just wouldn't take him over those guys...I'd probably take Sherrod before him too...another guy who is just meaner, tougher, and understands the position better.

D-Unit
04-05-2011, 01:16 AM
- D'Brick just was a better prospect. That one is easy to prove. D'Brick was pretty much the first of the elite young LT run...after him Thomas, Long, Clady, and others started showing up into the league, including two Virginia teammates. He was an All American two years in a row, and staying for his senior year was a surprise. He held his prospect status and then some...because it came in a class with Mario Williams, Reggie Bush, AJ Hawk, Vernon Davis, and the 3 QBs...basically Smith isn't on his level.

- Camiri and Castonzo both hold their weight just as well, have more experience, are better run blockers, come from programs well known for good OL prospects...both are very capable pass blockers...strong athletes...more well rounded...I could see someone buying Smith early because of his school and his workout numbers and his upside....but I just wouldn't take him over those guys...I'd probably take Sherrod before him too...another guy who is just meaner, tougher, and understands the position better.
You didn't compare D'Brick to Tyron at all other than to say D'Brick stayed for his senior year. Him being a so-called first elite tackle and being in a talented draft does absolutely nothing.

You did the same thing with Carimi and Castonzo saying they had the leg up on experience and thus equating that to being better. Wisconsin and BC are OL power houses, but USC should not be short changed. They consistently churn out top talent. "better run blockers", "very capable pass blockers", "strong athletes", "more well rounded"... very generic phrases. I could say the same thing as a counter, but it's empty without saying why.

You also have to remember that Tyron is just 20 years old. His upside is eye popping. If he was slow, uncoordinated, weak, short, lazy, unbalanced, short armed, uncommitted, unathletic, or gave up on plays then I can start to understand where you are coming from. But by knocking his experience, school and draft class... you just sound like a hater without a cause.

Oh and the Bruce Campbell comparison is laughable.

bitonti
04-05-2011, 08:39 AM
Agree or disagree: Do you think that Tyron Smith's game tape provides a completely accurate picture of him now? 20-25 pounds later?

what else can we judge the player on?

he didn't workout at the combine

he didn't go to the senior bowl.

more established prospects like DBrick did both of those things.


his age is both a blessing and a curse, the offensive and defensive line is a man's game. people said amobi okoye had great potential cause he was 18 years old but these guys will be in hand to hand combat with 30 year olds on day 1.

Im not worried about his weight. his lack of experience and shabby film bother me.

FUNBUNCHER
04-05-2011, 09:27 AM
I think Tyron Smith is the first OT off the board and compares favorably to Trent Williams drafted 4th by the Skins out of OU.

Smith is athletic enough IMO to hold his own on the edge on passing downs, and he should grow into a run blocker.
He's too physically talented and the Cowboys need is too great to pass on him.

On top of that he's only 20 years old and he's going to be locked into a new rookie wage scale cap??

In five years drafting him at 9 could look like a huge bargain.

Rosebud
04-05-2011, 11:31 AM
I think Tyron Smith is the first OT off the board and compares favorably to Trent Williams drafted 4th by the Skins out of OU.

Smith is athletic enough IMO to hold his own on the edge on passing downs, and he should grow into a run blocker.
He's too physically talented and the Cowboys need is too great to pass on him.

On top of that he's only 20 years old and he's going to be locked into a new rookie wage scale cap??

In five years drafting him at 9 could look like a huge bargain.

Trent Williams dominated at RT before making the switch to LT as a senior and struggling a little with the change, so not only was his film much stronger than Smith's, he also had already started making the change to LT and had gone through a good chunk of those growing pains.

Iamcanadian
04-05-2011, 12:20 PM
Actually, Smith played LT as a freshmen, so he isn't totally inexperienced there.
His potential and upside is right there with D'Brickashaw, if a GM believes in him, he is going to be drafted quite high, that's how the draft works. If he hasn't convinced any GM's drafting in the top 10 that his potential outweighs his inexperience then he will go 11-15.

D-Unit
04-05-2011, 01:31 PM
what else can we judge the player on?

he didn't workout at the combine

he didn't go to the senior bowl.

more established prospects like DBrick did both of those things.


his age is both a blessing and a curse, the offensive and defensive line is a man's game. people said amobi okoye had great potential cause he was 18 years old but these guys will be in hand to hand combat with 30 year olds on day 1.

Im not worried about his weight. his lack of experience and shabby film bother me.
Actually he ran the 40 and did the bench at the combine. ...and while he didn't go to the Senior Bowl, he has already has his Pro Day.

What besides game film can you judge the player on?

How about judging a player based off measurable traits that NFL personnel look for during pre-draft workouts? Where Smith has marveled.

...and as for the shabby film... please, that's more a twisted opinion more than the truth. Smith won the Morris Trophy given to the best OL in the Pac-10. The unique thing about this is that is rewarded based off the opinion of opponents who faced him... not an awards panel. So that's not too shabby considering he beat out teammate Matt Kalil among others.

Scott Wright
04-05-2011, 01:41 PM
I strongly disagree with anyone who says Tyron Smith has bad hilm.

Bruce Campbell had bad film.

Nate Solder has some bad film.

I was consistently impressed with Tyron Smith, both on tape and in person.

bitonti
04-05-2011, 02:09 PM
Actually he ran the 40 and did the bench at the combine. ...and while he didn't go to the Senior Bowl, he has already has his Pro Day.


this player did not work out in any way in Indy. he had surgery for a meniscus injury in Dec. all he did was weigh in

Scott i would characterize his film as ok. He has some good plays, some bad plays. Again watch the Oregon St game he was victimized by Paea. You might also find this film on Stephen Paea's highlight film.

If we are talking about awards, he was the 2x Pac 10 defensive player of the year but no one's talking about Paea going 9 to Dal.

again just to be clear im not saying Tyron Smith is bad, i just think he's over valued right now. I can see the logic in late 1. high 1 is too dear a price.

and I know what you all are gonna say "but left tackle is a premium position"

yes it is. and Tyron Smith hasn't played left tackle. he's a right tackle whos started 16 games... people are projecting to left, that's a huge difference than actually starting at left tackle 30, 40 or even 50 games.

FUNBUNCHER
04-05-2011, 03:31 PM
Athletically, Smith is a LT. He played RT out of necessity, not skill level.
I still easily see him put into the starting lineup Day One in September and not blowing a hole in his team's oline.

Jason Garrett needs to get that offense humming in Dallas, and that starts with giving Romo time to find Dez and Austin Miles.

D-Unit
04-05-2011, 04:39 PM
this player did not work out in any way in Indy. he had surgery for a meniscus injury in Dec. all he did was weigh in

Scott i would characterize his film as ok. He has some good plays, some bad plays. Again watch the Oregon St game he was victimized by Paea. You might also find this film on Stephen Paea's highlight film.

If we are talking about awards, he was the 2x Pac 10 defensive player of the year but no one's talking about Paea going 9 to Dal.

again just to be clear im not saying Tyron Smith is bad, i just think he's over valued right now. I can see the logic in late 1. high 1 is too dear a price.

and I know what you all are gonna say "but left tackle is a premium position"

yes it is. and Tyron Smith hasn't played left tackle. he's a right tackle whos started 16 games... people are projecting to left, that's a huge difference than actually starting at left tackle 30, 40 or even 50 games.
You're right about Smith not running at Indy. When I'm in the wrong, I'll admit it. I should've trusted my memory, because I thought that he didn't run, but when I looked at ESPN's combine numbers, I saw it listed.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft/combine/_/id/46

As for the award argument, the reason why I brought it up was because you said his film was bad...which is a direct knock on his play on the field. Receiving the Morris Award is a point of rebuttle to show that based on the vote of the Defensive Linemen in the Pac-10 who faced him on the field themselves would disagree with you on his play being "shabby".

You bringing up Stephen Paea winning the award is neither here nor there in regards to the current argument. I wasn't inferring to "award winning" as a basis for gauging draft value. That's just a total misunderstanding failure on your part.

While many teams could be looking at him as a LT prospect, not all are. Additionally, he could easily project to LT. There are no limits to him physically that would prevent him from succeeding there. His experience there is limited, but that's not any reason at all to eliminate him from making a career at LT. Draft prospects changing positions that they played in college is far far FAAAAR from a strange reality. DEs move to OLBs, CBs move to Ss, QBs move to WRs, OTs move to OGs, and on and on and on... a switch from RT to LT isn't as impossible an idea as you make it out to be.

GloryDaysRBack
04-05-2011, 05:07 PM
Both of you guys are wrong

Smith lifted at the combine - 29 reps of 225 and didn't run the 40

Smith then ran and lifted at his pro day..improving his reps from 29 to 31..he ran 4.91 or 4.92 in the 40

bitonti
04-06-2011, 08:04 AM
While many teams could be looking at him as a LT prospect, not all are. Additionally, he could easily project to LT. There are no limits to him physically that would prevent him from succeeding there. His experience there is limited, but that's not any reason at all to eliminate him from making a career at LT. Draft prospects changing positions that they played in college is far far FAAAAR from a strange reality. DEs move to OLBs, CBs move to Ss, QBs move to WRs, OTs move to OGs, and on and on and on... a switch from RT to LT isn't as impossible an idea as you make it out to be.

I never said it was impossible, I said conversion projects don't belong in the top 10. If they take Tyron Smith a few slots later and convert him to LT fair enough. But i dont see the point in passing on a guy with 54 LT starts for a guy with 16 RT starts, no matter how good an athlete he appears to be.

stephenson86
04-06-2011, 08:24 AM
I never said it was impossible, I said conversion projects don't belong in the top 10. If they take Tyron Smith a few slots later and convert him to LT fair enough. But i dont see the point in passing on a guy with 54 LT starts for a guy with 16 RT starts, no matter how good an athlete he appears to be.

Because ultimately the latter has the potential to be a better player...which is ultimately what you want. The draft is all about investing in your future and a team can choose to invest any which way they choose based on how they see the rest of the teams picking their guys. He may not seem to be a top 10 worthy guy but ultimately he has the potential to be like a guy you would draft top 5.

bitonti
04-06-2011, 11:05 AM
Because ultimately the latter has the potential to be a better player...which is ultimately what you want. The draft is all about investing in your future and a team can choose to invest any which way they choose based on how they see the rest of the teams picking their guys. He may not seem to be a top 10 worthy guy but ultimately he has the potential to be like a guy you would draft top 5.

ok so by that logic, why isn't Nate Solder a top 10 pick? Solder worked out better than Smith, and is far rawer... having been a tight end as recently as 3 seasons ago.

It's not like Smith has way better film than Solder. they both get beat on occasion. at least Solder has lined up at left tackle.

Iamcanadian
04-06-2011, 02:15 PM
I never said it was impossible, I said conversion projects don't belong in the top 10. If they take Tyron Smith a few slots later and convert him to LT fair enough. But i dont see the point in passing on a guy with 54 LT starts for a guy with 16 RT starts, no matter how good an athlete he appears to be.

Generally, I would agree with you, that drafting a conversion guy in the top 10 is risky and indeed Smith may go in the 11-15 range no matter how high a ceiling he has.
However, drafting a guy with 54 starts but a low ceiling over a guy with 16 starts and a much higher ceiling, isn't something I would do. In round 1, I'm looking for an impact player especially in the top end of round 1, and would accept a certain amount of risk to reach that goal.
It seems to me that you are forgetting that scouts, HC's and GM's have seen all the great players go through the draft process, and some have real ability to assess potential, so if Smith goes top 10, I'm assuming that their scouts, HC's and GM have assessed Smith and really like what they see and feel he will reach his ceiling. That is what makes the draft so interesting.

Iamcanadian
04-06-2011, 02:21 PM
ok so by that logic, why isn't Nate Solder a top 10 pick? Solder worked out better than Smith, and is far rawer... having been a tight end as recently as 3 seasons ago.

It's not like Smith has way better film than Solder. they both get beat on occasion. at least Solder has lined up at left tackle.

Because the scouts, HC's and GM's who watched Smith workout and on film, came to the conclusion that he is the better player. Just because you cannot see it, doesn't mean you are correct. They get paid to make these decisions based on their experience and previous success rates, and they have far greater access to the means necessary to come to those conclusions than you or me.

FUNBUNCHER
04-06-2011, 05:05 PM
ok so by that logic, why isn't Nate Solder a top 10 pick? Solder worked out better than Smith, and is far rawer... having been a tight end as recently as 3 seasons ago.

It's not like Smith has way better film than Solder. they both get beat on occasion. at least Solder has lined up at left tackle.

Sorry but Smith DOES have much better film than Solder, IMO. You watch some series from Solder and can't understand how an elite athlete at OT is getting beat so cleanly at times by DEs.

Solder's 2009 game film is just foul.

I think the problem people have with Solder is the question whether or not he has that natural feel for the position to excel at the next level.

In the pros an Oline coach can't train you to anticipate every mover/countermove you're going to face from an opponent, and ultimately blocking a DE on 3rd down comes down to sound technique, quick feet and an innate ability IMO to keep yourself between a defender and your QB.

Solder reminds me of Bruce Campbell, all-world tools but not a dominating OT.

Tyron Smith IMO didn't have those wild fluctuations in his game. He was fairly consistent in his play and I don't believe, (guessing) he was ever beaten clean by a pass rush where he NEVER got his hands on the Dlineman.

THe standard very recently for grading elite LT prospects was to evaluate how many sacks they gave up, especially their final year as a starter.

The very best gave up zero, one or 2 for a 12 game season. I don't know if any of these guys measure up to that standard.

I'd feel much more comfortable starting Tyron Smith Day 1 as a rookie than Solder.
But I will be pissed strictly as a football fan if Solder in 3 years doesn't 'get it' and play up to his level of physical ability and eventually become a top 10 LT.

JoeJoeBrown
04-06-2011, 05:10 PM
Sorry but Smith DOES have much better film than Solder, IMO. You watch some series from Solder and can't understand how an elite athlete at OT is getting beat so cleanly at times by DEs.

Solder's 2009 game film is just foul.

I think the problem people have with Solder is the question whether or not he has that natural feel for the position to excel at the next level.

In the pros an Oline coach can't train you to anticipate every mover/countermove you're going to face from an opponent, and ultimately blocking a DE on 3rd down comes down to sound technique, quick feet and an innate ability IMO to keep yourself between a defender and your QB.

Solder reminds me of Bruce Campbell, all-world tools but not a dominating OT.

Tyron Smith IMO didn't have those wild fluctuations in his game. He was fairly consistent in his play and I don't believe, (guessing) he was ever beaten clean by a pass rush where he NEVER got his hands on the Dlineman.

THe standard very recently for grading elite LT prospects was to evaluate how many sacks they gave up, especially their final year as a starter.

The very best gave up zero, one or 2 for a 12 game season. I don't know if any of these guys measure up to that standard.

I'd feel much more comfortable starting Tyron Smith Day 1 as a rookie than Solder.
But I will be pissed strictly as a football fan if Solder in 3 years doesn't 'get it' and play up to his level of physical ability and eventually become a top 10 LT.

You should change your moniker to "Angry Contrarian".

bitonti
04-07-2011, 07:35 AM
Because the scouts, HC's and GM's who watched Smith workout and on film, came to the conclusion that he is the better player. Just because you cannot see it, doesn't mean you are correct. They get paid to make these decisions based on their experience and previous success rates, and they have far greater access to the means necessary to come to those conclusions than you or me.

Oh so getting paid makes an expert. I guess it didn't work for Matt Millen.

D-Unit
04-07-2011, 01:00 PM
Oh so getting paid makes an expert. I guess it didn't work for Matt Millen.
Do you usually take one example and use it to form your opinion of the whole?

SenorGato
04-07-2011, 11:43 PM
Alright alright I underrate. Sue me.

bitonti
04-08-2011, 07:38 AM
Do you usually take one example and use it to form your opinion of the whole?

Matt Millen is far from the only employee of an NFL team that didn't understand the draft. Scott Wright who runs this site is every bit the draft expert as some of these scouts. Being paid by the NFL doesn't mean they are experts. All it means is they are paid by the NFL.

HakeemtheMachine
04-08-2011, 08:36 AM
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/44/441092.jpg

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/44/441093.jpg

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/44/441094.jpg

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/44/441097.jpg

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/44/441098.jpg

I'm guessing he added a bit more muscle, but mainly fat/bulk?

Here's some footage on him.

K3HKsYCCXGk


Heres my vid of him in case u guys havent seen it. He has some real problems
with Matt Conrath and Zane Parr

3YK50adKy-Y