PDA

View Full Version : Question Regarding the Senior Bowl Observations...


bucfan12
01-27-2011, 12:26 AM
Is it me, or is Scott Wright's observations way off to what I am listening to on the NFL Network or other reports on rotoworld.com and sources like that.

Like, I am reading your blog (Scott Wright) and you say Colin Kaepernick looks awful. Everything I am hearing, and from Mike Mayock is saying he might have really boosted his stock and possibly best QB here. I read reports where Locker is struggling in the pocket with accuracy. I also watched the practices on NFL Network and I've seen Kaepernick make some pretty nice throws and impressed me most out of the other QBs.

Also, I am hearing Greg Jones is performing very well, but won't be suited to play IlB. He could be a beast at WLB and similar to Sean Weatherspoon, who was taken by the Falcons in the 1st round last year.

I respect Scott Wright's draft analysts and scouting reports on players, but I am just confused on part of what he's seeing differently right now.

lionsfan81
01-27-2011, 12:47 AM
Is it me, or is Scott Wright's observations way off to what I am listening to on the NFL Network or other reports on rotoworld.com and sources like that.

Like, I am reading your blog (Scott Wright) and you say Colin Kaepernick looks awful. Everything I am hearing, and from Mike Mayock is saying he might have really boosted his stock and possibly best QB here. I read reports where Locker is struggling in the pocket with accuracy. I also watched the practices on NFL Network and I've seen Kaepernick make some pretty nice throws and impressed me most out of the other QBs.

Also, I am hearing Greg Jones is performing very well, but won't be suited to play IlB. He could be a beast at WLB and similar to Sean Weatherspoon, who was taken by the Falcons in the 1st round last year.

I respect Scott Wright's draft analysts and scouting reports on players, but I am just confused on part of what he's seeing differently right now.


Welcome to the NFL. This is why teams pass on Aaron Rodgers and draft Alex Smith. Why a team like the Raiders pick Jamarcus Russell over Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas, or Adrian Peterson. Every person has their OWN opinions and not everything is a consensus. Some people can look at a prospect and see a star in the making where others see him as just another guy who won't ever play. It's why 2 undrafted free agent rookies can outrun the top running backs drafted in the first round. It's not just what you see in a players, it's how you see them fitting into your team in the NFL.

Scott Wright
01-27-2011, 01:00 AM
I noted for most of the week that Locker was struggling with his accuracy...

As for Kaepernick, I don't know what people are seeing there. I stood there for 15 minutes today and watched him throw one bad ball after another with that sketchy throwing motion. Over heads, in the dirt, etc. I guarantee that kid won't be a successful NFL quarterback.

fenikz
01-27-2011, 01:02 AM
Has Von Miller developed some pass rushing moves or is he still getting by with only the speed rush?

damn thought this was a ask scott questions thread

JPP90
01-27-2011, 01:27 AM
I noted for most of the week that Locker was struggling with his accuracy...

As for Kaepernick, I don't know what people are seeing there. I stood there for 15 minutes today and watched him throw one bad ball after another with that sketchy throwing motion. Over heads, in the dirt, etc. I guarantee that kid won't be a successful NFL quarterback.

Like I noted on the SB thread, I know people are piling on Locker for not throwing perfect pass after perfect pass and he's looked shaky in the pocket but you can't tell me in this day in and age where Tim Tebow comes in as a rookie and isn't a complete dumpster fire that there isn't enough to work with in Locker, or that he wouldn't be a respectable rookie QB. Maybe not a revelation like Sam Bradford but not Jimmy Clausen either.

bucfan12
01-27-2011, 01:37 AM
Like I noted on the SB thread, I know people are piling on Locker for not throwing perfect pass after perfect pass and he's looked shaky in the pocket but you can't tell me in this day in and age where Tim Tebow comes in as a rookie and isn't a complete dumpster fire that there isn't enough to work with in Locker, or that he wouldn't be a respectable rookie QB. Maybe not a revelation like Sam Bradford but not Jimmy Clausen either.

The best comparison for Locker in my opinion is Alex Smith. Locker might have a stronger arm, but the accuracy issues and mobility fit them perfectly in my opinion. I think Kaepernick is going to have an excellent game on Saturday and show he's the better senior QB.

FUNBUNCHER
01-27-2011, 01:42 AM
Not all opinions are created equal, but at the end of the day that's all they are, opinions.

NFL scouting is more of an art than science IMO, especially when it comes to scouting QBs.

At least you know with Scott and Shane, when they give a report on a draft prospect, there's a reasoned thought process behind it.

Even if a scout's impression about a prospect turns out to be wrong in the long term, for me as a casual fan it's more important to know why someone thinks a certain way about a prospect and less so so if they're 100% right.

That said, I think Kaepernick owes Scott money or something cause he doesn't give the kid the slightest possibility of even making an NFL roster.

CK listens to all of this, and it only makes him stronger!!!

JPP90
01-27-2011, 01:57 AM
The best comparison for Locker in my opinion is Alex Smith. Locker might have a stronger arm, but the accuracy issues and mobility fit them perfectly in my opinion. I think Kaepernick is going to have an excellent game on Saturday and show he's the better senior QB.

Its already too late for Alex Smith but again that comes down to placement. Smith has had it a lot rougher in SF than Rodgers had it GB. All the turnover and dysfunction there isn't conducive to a young QB. Same with Jason Campbell. On the other hand you take Sanchez...given a nice easy game-plan, insulated by not taking risks downfield and being given good players and smart coaching by Schottenheimer and he looks like a success. He wouldn't in Buffalo..Id put money on that. Rodgers goes to GB...solid coaching, watches a HOF QB for 3 years, the team builds a great offense and defense around him and he's a success. I'm not sold that Alex Smith would fail there, or that Rodgers would have succeeded in SF. I'm a believer in its not how high you go, its where you go. Ben Roethlisberger had it made from day 1 qyite honestly, and I knew that as soon as they announced his name.

49erNation85
01-27-2011, 02:46 AM
Sadly there are signs of SF bringing back Alex Smith for another season .Looks like we may get Luck next year lol .

bullg8rdaddy
01-27-2011, 04:29 AM
Not all opinions are created equal, but at the end of the day that's all they are, opinions.

NFL scouting is more of an art than science IMO, especially when it comes to scouting QBs.

At least you know with Scott and Shane, when they give a report on a draft prospect, there's a reasoned thought process behind it.

Even if a scout's impression about a prospect turns out to be wrong in the long term, for me as a casual fan it's more important to know why someone thinks a certain way about a prospect and less so so if they're 100% right.

That said, I think Kaepernick owes Scott money or something cause he doesn't give the kid the slightest possibility of even making an NFL roster.

CK listens to all of this, and it only makes him stronger!!!

This made me lol. Funny.

ellsy82
01-27-2011, 04:54 AM
Muhahahahahaha!! Don't trust anybody from the NFL Network. They couldn't analyse a game without tripping over eachother with pure idiocy. Faulk especially...its like watching a baby attempt a free-throw.

Thanks God Mayock is there, but even he is starting to blow the ballsack of the prospects instead to throwing down the tough questions. He's still the best guy NFL Network by a long ***** country mile.

RealityCheck
01-27-2011, 07:04 AM
That said, I think Kaepernick owes Scott money or something cause he doesn't give the kid the slightest possibility of even making an NFL roster.

CK listens to all of this, and it only makes him stronger!!!
This, exactly this.

When I see Kaepernick, I see a perfect prospect. Perfect size, great athleticism and an outstanding character. You don't see 6'6" QBs with the speed of a wide receiver and the intelligence of an NFL QB every day. And the guy made a pretty weak squad into a Top 15 team all by himself.
I couldn't even throw in a comparison for CK. The closest I'll be able to say would be a bigger and smarter Michael Vick, which is impressive.

Meanwhile, everybody is going on the nuts of Cam Newton, who is dumb as a door and has a character that is a time bomb ready to explode and Jake Locker, who had a terrible senior season and has really nothing that makes him a 1st round prospect right now.

sportslover
01-27-2011, 07:24 AM
Watch the practices and Scott is mainly right. When Mayock is talking he is talking more about Kaepernick's great talent but the reason Scott is knocking him is because of his throwing motion and accuracy and when Mayock gets finished with talking about his talent, he always mentions both the things Scott discusses.

brasho
01-27-2011, 07:34 AM
This, exactly this.

When I see Kaepernick, I see a perfect prospect. Perfect size, great athleticism and an outstanding character. You don't see 6'6" QBs with the speed of a wide receiver and the intelligence of an NFL QB every day. And the guy made a pretty weak squad into a Top 15 team all by himself.
I couldn't even throw in a comparison for CK. The closest I'll be able to say would be a bigger and smarter Michael Vick, which is impressive.

Meanwhile, everybody is going on the nuts of Cam Newton, who is dumb as a door and has a character that is a time bomb ready to explode and Jake Locker, who had a terrible senior season and has really nothing that makes him a 1st round prospect right now.

Randall Cunningham... all the way down to the elongated delivery, playing college in a state of Nevada school, and his tall skinny build.

I wish NFLN hadn't been so crappy with their coverage because I've seen an average of 3 fhtows per QB the past couple of days and the 4 I saw the other day of CK, they were all on the money... I didn't get to see all of his other throws, however, and can only go on what the people that are there are telling me.

brasho
01-27-2011, 07:36 AM
Watch the practices and Scott is mainly right. When Mayock is talking he is talking more about Kaepernick's great talent but the reason Scott is knocking him is because of his throwing motion and accuracy and when Mayock gets finished with talking about his talent, he always mentions both the things Scott discusses.

Interesting... so perhaps we've uncovered a new mystery.

Hannah Montana=Miley Cyrus
Superman=Clark Kent
Mike Mayock=Scott Wright

Well, if this is the case. Scott, stop with all the incessant gabbing on the air, the constant ungoing interviews and commentary, and show the FREAKING practices! Your coverage is HORRIBLE!

Shane P. Hallam
01-27-2011, 08:22 AM
If you think Colin Kaepernick is Michael Vick or Randall Cunningham, you are going to be sorely mistaken.

And I'll make a prediction right now, he's going to have a good game. Just like Michael Robinson, Kaep will run a lot, make a few good passes and we will get criticized even more. That's fine, but he has been up and down all week. Poor pass, poor pass, great pass. Listen to the podcast today, I explain exactly what I am seeing and where he is faltering here. Guy is talented, no doubt. If he is developed correctly, could be a beast, but there is a lot more to go.

Scott also addresses this in his blog here: http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/Senior-Bowl-Blog.php

Rashaan Salaam
01-27-2011, 08:45 AM
If you think Colin Kaepernick is Michael Vick or Randall Cunningham, you are going to be sorely mistaken.

And I'll make a prediction right now, he's going to have a good game. Just like Michael Robinson, Kaep will run a lot, make a few good passes and we will get criticized even more. That's fine, but he has been up and down all week. Poor pass, poor pass, great pass. Listen to the podcast today, I explain exactly what I am seeing and where he is faltering here. Guy is talented, no doubt. If he is developed correctly, could be a beast, but there is a lot more to go.

Scott also addresses this in his blog here: http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/Senior-Bowl-Blog.php

The Cunningham comparison is actually a fair one. Cunningham was bought along slowly for 2 years and didn't take over the reigns until year 3.

Good QBs don't lose.

If he was that terrible of a prospect, Nevada wouldn't have won as many games. The kid can play.

Rashaan Salaam
01-27-2011, 08:48 AM
I noted for most of the week that Locker was struggling with his accuracy...

As for Kaepernick, I don't know what people are seeing there. I stood there for 15 minutes today and watched him throw one bad ball after another with that sketchy throwing motion. Over heads, in the dirt, etc. I guarantee that kid won't be a successful NFL quarterback.

Don't ignore 4 years of game film for a week of practice... Good QBs don't lose.

gutman54
01-27-2011, 09:06 AM
Well, I think everyone in this situation is right, in their own way.

All of these players are prospects, which taken in a literal since of the word, which i assume it is, is something with the possibility of future success.

Now, to some, Colin may be a great prospect (high possibility), and to others, a not so great prospect (low possibility).

Just like the '49ers, the actual 49er's, they're taking a chance on the prospect, hoping that in the end they end up with something golden.

Because it's a game of possibilities, then you have different opinions of how much potential each person has, kind of like the potential between each plot of land in California to have the potential for gold.

That's just my two cents, and if it is completely off the mark, then I misunderstood the point of this thread, and I'm sorry.

Cheers.

ElectricEye
01-27-2011, 09:15 AM
Color me crazy, but I still really like CK for some reason or another. Mostly because he seems like a real nice kid and has a quarterback personality, unlike a lot of dual threat quarterbacks. The release bothers me a lot more now that I've seen it up close for an extended amount of time, but I don't think it's a death sentence. He should be able to come into the NFL and be Brad Smith for a few years and maybe develop into something more.

Keep it real
01-27-2011, 01:01 PM
Watch the practices and Scott is mainly right. When Mayock is talking he is talking more about Kaepernick's great talent but the reason Scott is knocking him is because of his throwing motion and accuracy and when Mayock gets finished with talking about his talent, he always mentions both the things Scott discusses.

I've been watching all week. Kaepernick is without a doubt the best QB on the field. He is also the most accurate. Check every other site and they are raving about him. (possible exception of McShay on espn who is still pimping Locker) I have to question the hidden agenda on this board. If you are really seeing things as you are reporting them, then you shouldn't be in this business.

Rashaan Salaam
01-27-2011, 01:33 PM
I've been watching all week. Kaepernick is without a doubt the best QB on the field. He is also the most accurate. Check every other site and they are raving about him. (possible exception of McShay on espn who is still pimping Locker) I have to question the hidden agenda on this board. If you are really seeing things as you are reporting them, then you shouldn't be in this business.

I agree... But I do find that on MOST media outlets they have an agenda... But to the defense of DC.. a lot of the people on message boards just repeat what they heard off of one of the major networks.

People have to just learn to watch the tape and "Trust what you see"

gpngc
01-27-2011, 01:52 PM
Don't ignore 4 years of game film for a week of practice... Good QBs don't lose.

Don't know how this was a reply to Scott's post but it's still worth quoting because it's absolutely true and important.

Black Bolt
01-27-2011, 02:00 PM
I noted for most of the week that Locker was struggling with his accuracy...

As for Kaepernick, I don't know what people are seeing there. I stood there for 15 minutes today and watched him throw one bad ball after another with that sketchy throwing motion. Over heads, in the dirt, etc. I guarantee that kid won't be a successful NFL quarterback.

He Scott, when you get a chance, please check your e-mail for a question I posed to you.

whatadai
01-27-2011, 02:02 PM
Don't ignore 4 years of game film for a week of practice... Good QBs don't lose.

Matt Leinart?

Rashaan Salaam
01-27-2011, 02:12 PM
Matt Leinart?

He wasn't that good to begin with...

brasho
01-27-2011, 02:50 PM
Matt Leinart?

We can ask the same question about Ken Dorsey, Matt Flynn, and Chris Weinke (can't remember who the Ohio St. QB was). Those guys were the QBs of excellent teams, but they were more or less caretakers. Caretakers might eventually be backups in the NFL. But I think if a college team's entire chance of success rides solely on the shoulders of a QB, meaning HE IS THE TEAM and that team is successful, then I think that QB has a shot at the NFL no matter what his poor qualities are.

This is why Ty Detmer was able to play so long in the NFL despite not having many/any NFL tools except work ethic and accuracy. Ty Detmer was his team. Roethlisberger was his team, so was Rivers, Matt Ryan was his team... these teams don't have anywhere close to the success they had with an average player at QB. I might feel differently towards CK if he was more of a Colt Brennan/Graham Harrell-type John Stockton point guard that merely executed long handoffs 0-10 yards of the line of scrimmage. This is why I believe CK will be successful, he was able to beat good teams by going down the field, by using his athleticism.

One thing that is really the great equalizer is the two-minute drill. All QBs everntually have to execute it and you can't execute a good one by dinking and dunking the whole time, a QB needs to push it down the field and no matter what system a guy is in, the plays are all very similar. Kaepernick was able to execute, Cam Newton was able to execute. This tells me that these guys have the tools to be NFL QBs. This doesn't mean they will but it means they are starting off with the tools they need to succeed.

Matt Leinart was basically the caretaker of a great USC team. He had a great OL, great WRs, and fantastic RBs...he was a lefthanded Ken Dorsey. I never saw what everybody else saw in him.

I know some people really slam small-school QBs but I'm more leery of the large school QBs. Of course the QBs coming from the big schools will have great stats and be able to throw down the field, they are getting blocked for by great players, throwing to great players, it isn't that hard to look good. It's the guys that DON'T play with a lot of talent around them and still produce that have a better shot at the NFL.

Rashaan Salaam
01-27-2011, 03:08 PM
We can ask the same question about Ken Dorsey, Matt Flynn, and Chris Weinke (can't remember who the Ohio St. QB was). Those guys were the QBs of excellent teams, but they were more or less caretakers. Caretakers might eventually be backups in the NFL. But I think if a college team's entire chance of success rides solely on the shoulders of a QB, meaning HE IS THE TEAM and that team is successful, then I think that QB has a shot at the NFL no matter what his poor qualities are.

This is why Ty Detmer was able to play so long in the NFL despite not having many/any NFL tools except work ethic and accuracy. Ty Detmer was his team. Roethlisberger was his team, so was Rivers, Matt Ryan was his team... these teams don't have anywhere close to the success they had with an average player at QB. I might feel differently towards CK if he was more of a Colt Brennan/Graham Harrell-type John Stockton point guard that merely executed long handoffs 0-10 yards of the line of scrimmage. This is why I believe CK will be successful, he was able to beat good teams by going down the field, by using his athleticism.

One thing that is really the great equalizer is the two-minute drill. All QBs everntually have to execute it and you can't execute a good one by dinking and dunking the whole time, a QB needs to push it down the field and no matter what system a guy is in, the plays are all very similar. Kaepernick was able to execute, Cam Newton was able to execute. This tells me that these guys have the tools to be NFL QBs. This doesn't mean they will but it means they are starting off with the tools they need to succeed.

Matt Leinart was basically the caretaker of a great USC team. He had a great OL, great WRs, and fantastic RBs...he was a lefthanded Ken Dorsey. I never saw what everybody else saw in him.

I know some people really slam small-school QBs but I'm more leery of the large school QBs. Of course the QBs coming from the big schools will have great stats and be able to throw down the field, they are getting blocked for by great players, throwing to great players, it isn't that hard to look good. It's the guys that DON'T play with a lot of talent around them and still produce that have a better shot at the NFL.

*standing ovation*

This is true... Always Trust what you see! I know I keep saying that..but, its SO critical

yourfavestoner
01-27-2011, 03:39 PM
Also, Ken Dorsey was better than Matt Leinart.

titansfan
01-27-2011, 04:41 PM
NFL people are now saying that Colin Kaepernick has been impressive this week, some saying that he's outperformed Jake Locker...


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/27/colin-kaepernick-may-be-making-cutler-like-climb/

titansfan
01-27-2011, 04:45 PM
And I think the people hating on Kaepernick are focusing waaaay too much on his throwing motion, and not enough of the results. You are crazy if you don't think he doesn't have NFL potential or talent... Thats clear.

He can be stud in the league. I would love to see him go to the Bills or Dolphins. I would take a chance on him in the 2nd before I would take a chance on Locker in the 1st.

I've noticed those who don't think Locker's weaknesses are that big of an issue were already big Locker fans. Looking at Kaepernick, not too many were fans of his, and he's changed the minds of so many NFL people. There is no question he has the potential the succeed at the next level. No question.

brasho
02-05-2011, 12:40 PM
If you think Colin Kaepernick is Michael Vick or Randall Cunningham, you are going to be sorely mistaken.

And I'll make a prediction right now, he's going to have a good game. Just like Michael Robinson, Kaep will run a lot, make a few good passes and we will get criticized even more. That's fine, but he has been up and down all week. Poor pass, poor pass, great pass. Listen to the podcast today, I explain exactly what I am seeing and where he is faltering here. Guy is talented, no doubt. If he is developed correctly, could be a beast, but there is a lot more to go.

Scott also addresses this in his blog here: http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/Senior-Bowl-Blog.php

If you could get into a time machine and go back to the early 80's and watch Randall Cunningham, what do you think you would have said about him? Probably the same thing you are saying about Kaepernick. Cunningham's biggest criticisms as a young player were that he was raw, was uncomfortable in the pocket and was overly reliant on his legs, his whip-like release, and was wildly inconsistent when putting the ball in air. Then in year 2 he got a little playing time on 3rd downs...and the next season he was well on is way to becoming the NFL's Ultimate Weapon.

Black Bolt
01-28-2013, 10:37 AM
I noted for most of the week that Locker was struggling with his accuracy...

As for Kaepernick, I don't know what people are seeing there. I stood there for 15 minutes today and watched him throw one bad ball after another with that sketchy throwing motion. Over heads, in the dirt, etc. I guarantee that kid won't be a successful NFL quarterback.

Oh, Scotty boy. The guy you guaranteed wouldn't be successful is one win away from taking his team to the SB in less than a full season as a starter, now let me get some more cowbell! Hey, it happens.

G Mobile
01-28-2013, 12:09 PM
Is this bump really necessary? I'm glad Kaep is working out but I don't need every thread bumped so people can gloat.

Black Bolt
01-28-2013, 12:21 PM
Is this bump really necessary? I'm glad Kaep is working out but I don't need every thread bumped so people can gloat.

I don't know, is any thread really necessary? Just continuing the discussion as we now have more information in terms of how the prospect turned out. I think Kaeperick disproves the notion that you have to get it done a certain way. You just have to get it done, tattoos not withstanding.

PossibleCabbage
01-28-2013, 12:32 PM
I think the operative lesson is that ten scouts can watch one guy do the same thing and have ten different evaluations, 5 good and 5 bad. This is normal.

Black Bolt
01-28-2013, 12:56 PM
I think the operative lesson is that ten scouts can watch one guy do the same thing and have ten different evaluations, 5 good and 5 bad. This is normal.

I agree, but to an extent. This is extreme. I wonder if all those Jake Locker supporters are still holding out hope?

D-Unit
01-28-2013, 01:06 PM
I never thought Kaep was gonna be this good because his mechanics and acccuracy were always huge question marks. What he had was his size, running ability and strong arm. No one at the time of the Senior Bowl could've predicted that he would be drafted by the Niners and that John Harbaugh would be able to quickly correct his technique so well.

Makes me think Harbaugh could've fixed Vince Young.

Regardless, Kaep had easily identifiable flaws and a bad practice is a bad practice. If you want to call for crow on every wrong thing said about 100s of prospects every year, then you're gonna have one huge hell of a list. Even the best of the best NFL scouts and GMs get it wrong all the time. So what really is the point of this? Is there a grudge you have with Scott or something? Why are you trying to make him feel small?

Black Bolt
01-28-2013, 01:12 PM
I never thought Kaep was gonna be this good because his mechanics and acccuracy were always huge question marks. What he had was his size, running ability and strong arm. No one at the time of the Senior Bowl could've predicted that he would be drafted by the Niners and that John Harbaugh would be able to quickly correct his technique so well.

Makes me think Harbaugh could've fixed Vince Young.

Regardless, Kaep had easily identifiable flaws and a bad practice is a bad practice. If you want to call for crow on every wrong thing said about 100s of prospects every year, then you're gonna have one huge hell of a list. Even the best of the best NFL scouts and GMs get it wrong all the time. So what really is the point of this? Is there a grudge you have with Scott or something? Why are you trying to make him feel small?

Why are you taking this so seriously? A grudge?? If I had a grudge with him, I wouldn't be a member of his board. Calm down, there is no need to protect Scott. Keep in mind, he didn't just rate him low, he closed the door and said Kaep cannot play QB in the NFL. I have praised him as one of the best analyst out there and I still believe that. No one complains when I do that.

As far as Kaepernick, the notion that he is inaccurate was ALWAYS wrong. He didn't all of a sudden get accurate. In fact, someone called him the most accurate QB of the bunch at his senior bowl. The real reason he was knocked down was because of the system he came out of, the school he played at and IMO, his appearance. Don't fool, yourself, the niners didn't correct a thing with regard to his throwing motion, it still looks funky. And just remember the guys who went ahead of him in the first round. I don't think they were exactly flawless.

D-Unit
01-28-2013, 01:30 PM
Why are you taking this so seriously? A grudge?? If I had a grudge with him, I wouldn't be a member of his board. Calm down, there is no need to protect Scott. Keep in mind, he didn't just rate him low, he closed the door and said Kaep cannot play QB in the NFL. I have praised him as one of the best analyst out there and I still believe that. No one complains when I do that.

As far as Kaepernick, the notion that he is inaccurate was ALWAYS wrong. He didn't all of a sudden get accurate. In fact, someone called him the most accurate QB of the bunch at his senior bowl. The real reason he was knocked down was because of the system he came out of, the school he played at and IMO, his appearance. Don't fool, yourself, the niners didn't correct a thing with regard to his throwing motion, it still looks funky. And just remember the guys who went ahead of him in the first round. I don't think they were exactly flawless.
I just don't get why people dig random stuff up other than to make others feel small. Whether it be Scott or anyone else. Don't act like you're not serious about this. You have obviously been harboring these feelings for a while and bad enough that you remembered that this thread even existed. Wow. Impressive.

Oh and I guess we were all wrong again in regards to his accuracy. You're RIGHT again! Way to go, bro! You win.

FUNBUNCHER
01-28-2013, 02:03 PM
It does come off like gloating. I don't know how anyone could look at Kaepernick's games at Nevada and see a particularly accurate QB. He never even completed 60+% of his passes until his senior year and Nevada's passing attack isn't what you would call sophisticated on the college level.

To evaluate a prospect fairly, you have to look at both his negatives AND his positives. Scott did this IMO. After the final evaluation he saw more question marks than known quantities...that's how it goes.

No matter how long you do this, it's still one of the most challenging tasks in sports, projecting what kind of player a college/amateur athlete will be in the pros.

Many of us saw potential in CK, but anyone who says they imagined he'd be quarterbacking the NFC champs in the SB his 2nd year in the league isn't being honest.

brat316
01-28-2013, 02:05 PM
I think the system he plays in works great for him.

I don't know how good he would be as straight drop back and read.

G Mobile
01-28-2013, 02:49 PM
I think the system he plays in works great for him.

I don't know how good he would be as straight drop back and read.

Harbaugh might be one of the best in the league at identifying and handling a QB. Kaepernick was a project coming out, but Harbaugh has found a way to minimize his weaknesses while making great use of his unique abilities. I'm not saying Kaepernick isn't good or talented or is some type of a product of the system. I just think Harbaugh has gotten him on the field much sooner than he would have otherwise in another situation. Harbaugh never tries to put it all solely on the QB. Even when he had Luck at Stanford and coud have thrown 60 times a game, he still kept a balanced offense and worked the run game.

This type of early success should surprise even his stronger supporters.

brat316
01-28-2013, 02:53 PM
he has worked him and he has improved since he started.

Look at the fads and deep balls he was throwing to crabtree and Moss and Ginn. They would be nowhere near the player, sometimes going into the stands even.

but it has improved and the ball is landing over their shoulder now.

Black Bolt
01-28-2013, 05:19 PM
It does come off like gloating. I don't know how anyone could look at Kaepernick's games at Nevada and see a particularly accurate QB. He never even completed 60+% of his passes until his senior year and Nevada's passing attack isn't what you would call sophisticated on the college level.

To evaluate a prospect fairly, you have to look at both his negatives AND his positives. Scott did this IMO. After the final evaluation he saw more question marks than known quantities...that's how it goes.

No matter how long you do this, it's still one of the most challenging tasks in sports, projecting what kind of player a college/amateur athlete will be in the pros.

Many of us saw potential in CK, but anyone who says they imagined he'd be quarterbacking the NFC champs in the SB his 2nd year in the league isn't being honest.

I am hardly gloating. I poked a bit of VERY light humor at Scott which should be okay being we are all adults here. I was not disrespectful and I didn't say "I told you so." But what's the point of all the debates we have and more specifically, the predictions we make, if we aren't willing to man up and witness the outcome? If you still haven't caught on, the only problem I had with his evaluation is the guarantee that he could not play QB. The guarantee was completely unnecessary and unwarranted. How many undrafted free agents made the Pro Bowl in 2011-2012? Like you said, it's a difficult business, so one is probably better off doing the evaluation rather than guaranteeing someone's failure. They do a lot of that such on other sites.

You are talking about his completion % as evidence he could not play QB in the NFL?? Kyle Boller's completion % SUCKED, yet he was drafted in the first round and had an NFL career, albeit a terrible one. How about the guy that got drafted a round ahead of him, Jake Locker? He was NEVER over 60% in his college career, but how many people here poured out excuses for him?

Kaepernick had ALL THE TOOLS as well as significant experience as a starter. He threw the ball harder than anyone has ever measured. He is 6'6" and ran a 4.52, but he couldn't play QB in the NFL?? I thought otherwise and Harbaugh thought otherwise. People here are acting like Harbaugh gave Kaepernick a brain transplant. No, he just saw what some of us saw and others did not. Scott was wrong and that's the bottom line, but my reason for bringing this was the guarantee that he couldn't play. He certainly can.

Black Bolt
01-28-2013, 05:20 PM
he has worked him and he has improved since he started.

Look at the fads and deep balls he was throwing to crabtree and Moss and Ginn. They would be nowhere near the player, sometimes going into the stands even.

but it has improved and the ball is landing over their shoulder now.

Which means he always had the ability to do it. Not only that, he made the improvements VERY quickly. Could it be that he is smart as well as talented? Could it be that he can pass AND run? Jake Locker can't hit the side of an aircraft carrier and Tim Tebow putts rather than passes and I am sure their coaches have tried to improve them. See the difference?

brat316
01-28-2013, 05:49 PM
Which means he always had the ability to do it. Not only that, he made the improvements VERY quickly. Could it be that he is smart as well as talented? Could it be that he can pass AND run? Jake Locker can't hit the side of an aircraft carrier and Tim Tebow putts rather than passes and I am sure their coaches have tried to improve them. See the difference?


No?

I was saying when he started he couldn't do it.

He was coached to improve his accuracy.

This offense still mask his weakness whatever they maybe, or else he wouldn't be running out of the pistol.

SuperPacker
01-28-2013, 05:59 PM
But what's the point of all the debates we have and more specifically, the predictions we make, if we aren't willing to man up and witness the outcome?

This. People are talking in another thread about having thick skin to deal with people disagreeing with your opinion, why can't people have thick skin with this as well. As long as you don't do a Brasho, I see no harm in bringing up an old thread and discussing what was previously written. If people don't want to be held accountable for what they say, don't say anything in the first place.

Scott GUARANTEED that Kaepernick wouldn't be anything in the NFL. Those are pretty big words, we should just forget them because they were said in the past?

Again with something that was said in another thread. If you disagree with someone, everyone saying "I respectfully disagree with you" is just boring. Saying "everyone makes mistakes, forget about it" is just as boring, IMO.

D-Unit
01-28-2013, 06:10 PM
I am hardly gloating. I poked a bit of VERY light humor at Scott which should be okay being we are all adults here. I was not disrespectful and I didn't say "I told you so." But what's the point of all the debates we have and more specifically, the predictions we make, if we aren't willing to man up and witness the outcome? If you still haven't caught on, the only problem I had with his evaluation is the guarantee that he could not play QB. The guarantee was completely unnecessary and unwarranted. How many undrafted free agents made the Pro Bowl in 2011-2012? Like you said, it's a difficult business, so one is probably better off doing the evaluation rather than guaranteeing someone's failure. They do a lot of that such on other sites.

You are talking about his completion % as evidence he could not play QB in the NFL?? Kyle Boller's completion % SUCKED, yet he was drafted in the first round and had an NFL career, albeit a terrible one. How about the guy that got drafted a round ahead of him, Jake Locker? He was NEVER over 60% in his college career, but how many people here poured out excuses for him?

Kaepernick had ALL THE TOOLS as well as significant experience as a starter. He threw the ball harder than anyone has ever measured. He is 6'6" and ran a 4.52, but he couldn't play QB in the NFL?? I thought otherwise and Harbaugh thought otherwise. People here are acting like Harbaugh gave Kaepernick a brain transplant. No, he just saw what some of us saw and others did not. Scott was wrong and that's the bottom line, but my reason for bringing this was the guarantee that he couldn't play. He certainly can.
No the bottom line is that people in this business are wrong a lot. Looking back and pointing each one out is an exercise with no end. There are things called draft busts and draft steals.

To call out the owner of this site for getting one wrong, that you called right is really more about you trying to attract the real attention on yourself isn't it? Isn't that the bottom line? So let's have a nice little harmless laugh at Scott's expense and throw our praises at you. Bravo man! You were definitely on point about Kaep, so Brrrrravo!!! :great:

Black Bolt
01-28-2013, 06:50 PM
No?

I was saying when he started he couldn't do it.

He was coached to improve his accuracy.

This offense still mask his weakness whatever they maybe, or else he wouldn't be running out of the pistol.

I see, hiding his weakness. I guess the Bronco's don't run the pistol with Peyton Manning as to not expose his weakness.

Really, your response reeks of denial. Harbaugh helped him to refine his skills, he didn't create his skills. You and a few others in this thread will say anything except admit you were wrong about Kaepernick.

brat316
01-28-2013, 07:01 PM
I see, hiding his weakness. I guess the Bronco's don't run the pistol with Peyton Manning as to not expose his weakness.

Really, your response reeks of denial. Harbaugh helped him to refine his skills, he didn't create his skills. You and a few others in this thread will say anything except admit you were wrong about Kaepernick.

Please show me where I said kap was going to fail.


I agree and even said he was coached to improve his accuracy did I deny that?

Yeah, I can see what you are getting at, but anyone who plays Qb has accuracy. from 0-100, everyone has some even tebow.

Yes the bronco's don't run the pistol with Manning as to not expose his weakness or lack of running ability.

Black Bolt
01-28-2013, 07:04 PM
No the bottom line is that people in this business are wrong a lot. Looking back and pointing each one out is an exercise with no end. There are things called draft busts and draft steals.

To call out the owner of this site for getting one wrong, that you called right is really more about you trying to attract the real attention on yourself isn't it? Isn't that the bottom line? So let's have a nice little harmless laugh at Scott's expense and throw our praises at you. Bravo man! You were definitely on point about Kaep, so Brrrrravo!!! :great:

But I am not talking about all the ones he or anyone else has gotten wrong, I am talking about this one who he guaranteed couldn't play QB in the NFL. I am not sure why you are acting like your feelings are hurt. And why are you speaking for Scott in the first place? Is that part of your job as a mod? If you are, then tell he should be happy to know that I have talked up him and this site for years.

It's really not the big deal you are making it out to be, so you can let it go now. Sorry if I didn't give you the fight you were looking for.

brat316
01-28-2013, 07:10 PM
But I am not talking about all the ones he or anyone else has gotten wrong, I am talking about this one who he guaranteed couldn't play QB in the NFL. I am not sure why you are acting like your feelings are hurt. And why are you speaking for Scott in the first place? Is that part of your job as a mod? If you are, then tell he should be happy to know that I have talked up him and this site for years.

It's really not the big deal you are making it out to be, so you can let it go now. Sorry if I didn't give you the fight you were looking for.

oooh ohhh, point out one where he hit the nail on the head.

Black Bolt
01-28-2013, 07:12 PM
Please show me where I said kap was going to fail.


I agree and even said he was coached to improve his accuracy did I deny that?

Yeah, I can see what you are getting at, but anyone who plays Qb has accuracy. from 0-100, everyone has some even tebow.

Yes the bronco's don't run the pistol with Manning as to not expose his weakness or lack of running ability.

Show me where I said YOU said he was going to fail. This post referenced Scott, not you. You jumped in (which is fine) and talking about Harbaugh being responsible for improving his accuracy, as if that justifies Scott's comment.

brat316
01-28-2013, 07:22 PM
I see, hiding his weakness. I guess the Bronco's don't run the pistol with Peyton Manning as to not expose his weakness.

Really, your response reeks of denial. Harbaugh helped him to refine his skills, he didn't create his skills. You and a few others in this thread will say anything except admit you were wrong about Kaepernick.

Show me where I said YOU said he was going to fail. This post referenced Scott, not you. You jumped in (which is fine) and talking about Harbaugh being responsible for improving his accuracy, as if that justifies Scott's comment.

Ughh does that help?

I'm not trying to justify scott. I believe he was wrong, but it took a hell of a coaching job to get Kap here. Would it be possible with the Jets?

Black Bolt
01-28-2013, 07:45 PM
Ughh does that help?

I'm not trying to justify scott. I believe he was wrong, but it took a hell of a coaching job to get Kap here. Would it be possible with the Jets?

Not really being that the quote you referenced didn't say you said he would fail. Also, "some of you" doesn't necessarily include you.

Would it be possible that he could play QB with another team including the Jets? Of course. He'd take Sanchez's job with little problem. If he could do it, he could always do it. If he couldn't, he would never be able to do it.

Armchair Scout
02-02-2013, 07:09 PM
To weigh in on this debate, I must say that I think Kaepernick clearly had all the tools to succeed in college. He is in a fortunate situation in SF, just as RG3 is in Washington and Aaron Rodgers is in GB, but he did have the ability to make all the throws he makes now when he was in college. Just like now, in college Kaepernick struggle with his accuracy and touch on downfield throws, has a slightly elongated release (although it is not nearly as bad as people pretend it is; it isn't the weakness the way Nick Foles' or Tim Tebow's are), which he makes up for partially with outstanding zip on his throws and quick feet, and had good accuracy on short and intermediate throws. He has a tendency to stare down receivers, although he has looked better going through his progressions in the NFL, and excels at throwing on the run.

I don't mean to say he looks absolutely identical in the NFL to how he looked in college. Kaepernick is clearly more patient in the pocket with the 49ers and has looked a more consistent in his decision-making, possibly due to his supporting cast. That said, I think Kaepernick could have had success in other situations as well. Certainly he wouldn't be as effective on other teams, but no QB would. The 49ers are lucky that they got a QB whose abilities match up well with the rest of their offense; Kaepernick's running ability is a major asset to SF's already strong running game, and his skill set matches up well with SF's WCO passing game.

Scott Wright
02-02-2013, 09:11 PM
As I've always said, it's impossible for one person to see every rep for every player at the Senior Bowl. I actually remember the Kaepernick situation vividly and it seemed to just be one of those cases where he struggled while I happened to be watching. Now others who I respect were definitely raving up Kaepernick during the week but I can only report what I see. I could have gone the easy route and parroted what others were saying, but that's not the way I do things.

In all honesty I'm still skeptical of whether or not Kaepernick can keep this up and I'll be interested to see how he fares next season after defenses have had a full offseason to try and figure him out. You also can't underestimate the fact that Kaepernick went to one of the top teams in the league with a lot of talent on both sides of the ball as well as perhaps the games best quarterback coach. Kaepernick was also afforded a season and a half to learn rather than being forced into the starting job before he was ready. Would Kaepernick have been as successful if he landed with Jacksonville or Oakland? If nothing else it's an interesting debate.

Regardless I and most others certainly underestimated Kaepernick. There was never any denying Kaepernick's sheer physical gifts and potential but that was a time when a team wouldn't dare do something so bold as build their entire offense around his unique skill set. However, I've said on more than one occasion that if Kaepernick were in this draft he would probably be the #1 overall pick since we've now seen guys like him have some success in the NFL. The game is constantly evolving and I think the Kaepernick situation provides a perfect example of how much has changed in just the last couple of years alone. Will Chip Kelly take it to the next level?

Black Bolt
02-02-2013, 11:19 PM
As I've always said, it's impossible for one person to see every rep for every player at the Senior Bowl. I actually remember the Kaepernick situation vividly and it seemed to just be one of those cases where he struggled while I happened to be watching. Now others who I respect were definitely raving up Kaepernick during the week but I can only report what I see. I could have gone the easy route and parroted what others were saying, but that's not the way I do things.

In all honesty I'm still skeptical of whether or not Kaepernick can keep this up and I'll be interested to see how he fares next season after defenses have had a full offseason to try and figure him out. You also can't underestimate the fact that Kaepernick went to one of the top teams in the league with a lot of talent on both sides of the ball as well as perhaps the games best quarterback coach. Kaepernick was also afforded a season and a half to learn rather than being forced into the starting job before he was ready. Would Kaepernick have been as successful if he landed with Jacksonville or Oakland? If nothing else it's an interesting debate.

Regardless I and most others certainly underestimated Kaepernick. There was never any denying Kaepernick's sheer physical gifts and potential but that was a time when a team wouldn't dare do something so bold as build their entire offense around his unique skill set. However, I've said on more than one occasion that if Kaepernick were in this draft he would probably be the #1 overall pick since we've now seen guys like him have some success in the NFL. The game is constantly evolving and I think the Kaepernick situation provides a perfect example of how much has changed in just the last couple of years alone. Will Chip Kelly take it to the next level?

It's all good and thanks for the response. You know, this is a perfect example of something not happening because it hasn't happened in the past......until it happens for the first time. Kaepernick wouldn't be as big a success under far poorer circumstances, but he would be able to have a career as a QB. You're still the best my friend!