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The Unseen
01-28-2011, 09:19 AM
I wish we could talk about politics/current events because the protests in Egypt are AWESOME

JoeJoeBrown
01-28-2011, 09:51 AM
OK, here is not fun thread, but I think it's important to at least try to discuss.

Just wanted to let you younger guys know that some serious crap is going on the world right now. Stuff like this happens once a generation. I know it's probably boring to a lot of you, but you should at least pay a bit of attention.

In the span of a few weeks:

Tunisia had riots and overthrew their government. Their dictator fled the country with over a ton of government gold.

Egypt is going through massive protests and riots right now. At least 7 cities are under protest. Egypt has shut down the net, radio, and cell phones.
Here is a live stream of twitter feeds with news. (http://www.google.com/search?tbs=mbl%3A1&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1730&bih=955&q=egypt&btnG=Search#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1730&bih=955&tbs=mbl:1&source=hp&q=egypt&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=egypt&pbx=1&fp=84370c0a4914b96a)

Here is a live video feed. (http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/)

Syria just shut down the internet.

Yemen is undergoing riots.

Algeria has had some riots.

The biggest reasons cited are oppressive regimes, low paying jobs, high unemployment, and rising food prices.

This is crazy stuff. The vast majority of the Middle East is unstable right now. Very different times than what we are used to.

Unfortunately, most of the people protesting do not like the US due to us propping up their dictators. I can't blame them. But a lot of these places may end up going theocratic fundamentalist Muslim (think Iran) instead of a democratic/republic type system.

Anyways, back to discussion of boobs and video games.

The Unseen
01-28-2011, 09:52 AM
This is going to get closed, but mad props.

Solidarity with our brothers in the Muslim world fighting against oppression.

Bengals78
01-28-2011, 09:55 AM
I wish we could talk about politics/current events because the protests in Egypt are AWESOME

A number of police members removed their suits and joined protests against the regime, according to Al Arabiya.

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/01/28/135395.html


**** just got real!

bigbluedefense
01-28-2011, 09:58 AM
The muslim world is changing. Younger muslims are much more westernized than their parents, and the muslim world is seeing a revolution similar to that seen in America in the 60s.

Modern islam is what the younger generation wants, but the governments of the countries they live in often do not favor such beliefs.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

eaglesalltheway
01-28-2011, 10:04 AM
Guys, lets not **** this up and get political, this thread needs to stay open. I've heard a lot about what's going on with these situations (you could collectively call it one) the past few weeks, and what happens in these situations will shape the future of not only these countries, but the regions, and the rest of the world.

Jvig43
01-28-2011, 10:05 AM
I'm shocked I'm just hearing about this. This is what happens when I get sick and dont get out of bed for days. Thats crazy.

JoeJoeBrown
01-28-2011, 10:08 AM
Guys, lets not **** this up and get political, this thread needs to stay open. I've heard a lot about what's going on with these situations (you could collectively call it one) the past few weeks, and what happens in these situations will shape the future of not only these countries, but the regions, and the rest of the world.

Exactly!!! No politics. Just report what we are hearing. I do agree completely that there is a good chance that this is going to be world shaping.

The Unseen
01-28-2011, 10:10 AM
Follow this page on Facebook to get relevant updates:

http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk#!/elshaheeed.co.uk

bigbluedefense
01-28-2011, 10:19 AM
This will not only impact the Middle East, but it will also heavily impact Europe. A lot of people are going to be fleeing these countries and try to start new lives in Europe.

That will shape the landscape there as well.

JoeJoeBrown
01-28-2011, 10:28 AM
This will not only impact the Middle East, but it will also heavily impact Europe. A lot of people are going to be fleeing these countries and try to start new lives in Europe.

That will shape the landscape there as well.

Think about how bad off many of the economies are in Europe now.

There are actually food riots in Albania now where a few protestors have been killed.

Stuff like this can spread like wild fire. Remember that when the Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated, it was by a Serbian. This was a big deal, but it wasn't a huge pan-European event, yet it caused an avalanche effect that led to a horrible war.

That won't happen today, but the world is kind of unstable right now due to the economic issues we are having.

bigbluedefense
01-28-2011, 10:33 AM
Think about how bad off many of the economies are in Europe now.

There are actually food riots in Albania now where a few protestors have been killed.

Stuff like this can spread like wild fire. Remember that when the Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated, it was by a Serbian. This was a big deal, but it wasn't a huge pan-European event, yet it caused an avalanche effect that led to a horrible war.

That won't happen today, but the world is kind of unstable right now due to the economic issues we are having.

From a financial perspective, manufacturing countries will see a boost in their economy from the sales of firearms etc.

This isn't a 1 week thing. This is basically the beginning of what seems to be a revolution.

JoeJoeBrown
01-28-2011, 10:34 AM
From a financial perspective, manufacturing countries will see a boost in their economy from the sales of firearms etc.

This isn't a 1 week thing. This is basically the beginning of what seems to be a revolution.

It's quite possible that there will be pan-ME revolution. Craziness.

Chucky
01-28-2011, 10:35 AM
I am very cautiously optimistic about this whole situation although at the same time I am extremely worried about what comes next

bigbluedefense
01-28-2011, 10:36 AM
It's quite possible that there will be pan-ME revolution. Craziness.

One thing to keep an eye on, very unstable countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan could be major players in distrubuting fire arms to these countries.

The violence and stakes in those 2 countries will increase dramatically, which also will require much more money and soldiers in the area if America wants to protect it's investments in the region.

This will impact our economy as well.

I also think Saudi Arabia will have to beef up it's security and borders.

iowatreat54
01-28-2011, 10:41 AM
How does anyone not think this is going to get locked? It's primarily about political revolution, intertwined with religion. That's like the atomic bomb of board rule breaking...

JoeJoeBrown
01-28-2011, 10:47 AM
The reason the assassination led to war is because of Serbia's treaty with Russia, thus 2 European powers had to go to war with one another.

That is nothing similar to the current situation in Europe. That was government vs. government (or country vs. country). This would be citizens vs. government. It's not like the citizens of multiple Euro nations are going to band together to fight their individual governments. The EU, maybe, but the EU isn't going to be very affected by violent riots, especially when they aren't in it's main member countries.

Also, how does anyone not think this is going to get locked? It's primarily about political revolution, intertwined with religion. That's like the atomic bomb of board rule breaking...

No one is bagging on Islam. No one is bagging on anything. I think that is the import of that rule. Those topics lead to very heated debates. This is just OMG THE POOP IS HITTING THE FAN.

As long as the content stays like this, instead of bagging on Islam or political parties, I hope it can stay open. I think it's healthy discussion.

You are right about WWI and the Euro situation now, but I was talking about how apparently small, isolated events can cascade to larger events in unstable regions.

WRT Europe, they have many economies that are hurting. Don't be surprised if there is relatively peaceful turnover in a few countries there. Particularly Greece.

iowatreat54
01-28-2011, 10:50 AM
No one is bagging on Islam. No one is bagging on anything. I think that is the import of that rule. Those topics lead to very heated debates. This is just OMG THE POOP IS HITTING THE FAN.

As long as the content stays like this, instead of bagging on Islam or political parties, I hope it can stay open. I think it's healthy discussion.

You are right about WWI and the Euro situation now, but I was talking about how apparently small, isolated events can cascade to larger events in unstable regions.

WRT Europe, they have many economies that are hurting. Don't be surprised if there is relatively peaceful turnover in a few countries there. Particularly Greece.

Yea, I edited my post because I reread it and didn't really know why I said any of it.

And to be honest, I'm all for this discussion. I'm just saying don't be surprised if it gets locked because the main points behind all these situations are both political and religious, so it will be very difficult to discuss them without bringing either of those topics up.

As for the Euro economies, there isn't going to be a significant change in any of the main players of Europe any time soon, so Europe isn't in much danger of anything other than a huge recession or depression, which may lead to turnover but it definitely wouldn't be peaceful or anytime in the next 5 years. At least not with any of the main guys, anyway.

senormysterioso
01-28-2011, 10:53 AM
One thing to keep an eye on, very unstable countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan could be major players in distrubuting fire arms to these countries.

The violence and stakes in those 2 countries will increase dramatically, which also will require much more money and soldiers in the area if America wants to protect it's investments in the region.

This will impact our economy as well.

I also think Saudi Arabia will have to beef up it's security and borders.

Afghanistan and Iraq as states, Afghanistan especially will not be major players in the international arms trade. If the United States pulls out before properly securing them, they could become safe havens for terrorists groups such as al qaeda, hezbollah, hamas, etc. The real problem is that the first world, economic powers of the region (Saudi Arabia, Iran, UAE, Syria and even Qatar) are financiers of terrorism. In some cases it's not even veiled, Iran has a 9-figure line-item in its budget every year that goes to Hezbollah among others. They allow jihadists safe passage across their country from Iraq to Afghanistan, which is the worst kept secret ever. The vast majority of the dudes that we roll up over their end up being from Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Yemen. It's frustrating to hear people talk about being at war with Iraq and Afghanistan, because those are just the areas of operation, Iraqi's and Afghan's are probably less than about 10% of the insurgency.

Hollywood
01-28-2011, 11:08 AM
It's funny how when these threads appear we just have to hope they don't immediately get closed. This has probably been asked/answered a million times so I apologize in advance, but what's the reason not to make an off topic board for the more serious stuff if we the people obviously want it?

Jvig43
01-28-2011, 11:10 AM
It's funny how when these threads appear we just have to hope they don't immediately get closed. This has probably been asked/answered a million times so I apologize in advance, but what's the reason not to make an off topic board for the more serious stuff if we the people obviously want it?

Because it's a football board and there are plenty of other message boards we can talk about this subject on. I figured I'd save NJX the trouble haha

MetSox17
01-28-2011, 11:15 AM
you can talk about current events.

but not politics or religion.

what's sad is that, for certain people, every current event is about politics, so inevitably, those threads will get locked (so tread carefully in here, y'all).


Straight from njx. So just keep it to what's happening, and not dealing with religion of any sort, and we're good. Geez.

descendency
01-28-2011, 11:18 AM
Please read this (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/28/egypt-just-turned-of.html) about the proposed US internet kill switch. This is a bill that some of our political class are trying to pass.

Do not construe this as left vs right, dem vs gop. Just be aware that the political class wants the power to shut off the internet here.
It's worse than just a kill switch. They're basically trying to filter the internet as well. Access to a free and unfiltered internet causes numerous problems for lots of people in power (like Sony crying about pirating materials).

I agree with Al Franken (that might be a first time ever) that how we frame the internet "rights" going forward is essentially the free speech issue of our time.

Crickett
01-28-2011, 11:45 AM
P2Fd4J7se0U

Been a while since I turned a 24 hours news network and just left it on.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2011, 12:20 PM
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

The Unseen
01-28-2011, 12:29 PM
Cairo has apparently calmed down a bit.

Tom Servo
01-28-2011, 12:46 PM
Hey...where's the hot chicks man?

Revolution is masturbation, A futile human endeavor. However it turns out a scumbag will assume power and another coup will be set in motion. Rinse and repeat. Then again, maybe I'm just a cynical SOB.

Just wanted to get one in before lockdown

Crickett
01-28-2011, 01:01 PM
Hey...where's the hot chicks man?


http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7301&page=605

Hollywood
01-28-2011, 01:02 PM
Because it's a football board and there are plenty of other message boards we can talk about this subject on. I figured I'd save NJX the trouble haha

Yea I get that, figured that would be the answer somewhere along those lines, but doesn't that apply to any subject that isn't football? This is a football board no need to talk about ______ you can talk about ______ on plenty of other message boards?

Meh, not a big deal, just wondering.

Jvig43
01-28-2011, 01:59 PM
Just saw them saying that the army could go either way in this. If decides to support the people **** is going off.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2011, 02:05 PM
Yeah, that's really crazy. The military "hasn't declared" who it will support.

And apparently the protesters have "formed a human shield to protect the museum from being looted" next to the ruling party HQ that's been torched.

bigbluedefense
01-28-2011, 02:28 PM
The military's choice could play a significant role in whether other countries will follow in Egypt and Tunisia's footsteps.

killxswitch
01-28-2011, 02:33 PM
I just want you guys to know that I have no interest in shutting down our internets.

JoeJoeBrown
01-28-2011, 02:45 PM
Yeah, that's really crazy. The military "hasn't declared" who it will support.

And apparently the protesters have "formed a human shield to protect the museum from being looted" next to the ruling party HQ that's been torched.

Yeah, supposedly the army big wigs do not like Mubarak's son, whom he is trying to have succeed him.

The army is going to just weigh their options and install the party that they want. Hopefully it's not some fundy group and instead is a moderate Democratic organization.

Likely going the Pakistan route.

Rosebud
01-28-2011, 02:54 PM
OK, here is not fun thread, but I think it's important to at least try to discuss.

Just wanted to let you younger guys know that some serious crap is going on the world right now. Stuff like this happens once a generation. I know it's probably boring to a lot of you, but you should at least pay a bit of attention.

In the span of a few weeks:

Tunisia had riots and overthrew their government. Their dictator fled the country with over a ton of government gold.

Egypt is going through massive protests and riots right now. At least 7 cities are under protest. Egypt has shut down the net, radio, and cell phones.
Here is a live stream of twitter feeds with news. (http://www.google.com/search?tbs=mbl%3A1&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1730&bih=955&q=egypt&btnG=Search#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1730&bih=955&tbs=mbl:1&source=hp&q=egypt&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=egypt&pbx=1&fp=84370c0a4914b96a)

Here is a live video feed. (http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/)

Syria just shut down the internet.

Yemen is undergoing riots.

Algeria has had some riots.

The biggest reasons cited are oppressive regimes, low paying jobs, high unemployment, and rising food prices.

This is crazy stuff. The vast majority of the Middle East is unstable right now. Very different times than what we are used to.

Unfortunately, most of the people protesting do not like the US due to us propping up their dictators. I can't blame them. But a lot of these places may end up going theocratic fundamentalist Muslim (think Iran) instead of a democratic/republic type system.

Anyways, back to discussion of boobs and video games.

Free Elections seem to be a big concern in a lot of these situations, Tunisia's still undergoing unrest because people from the previous regime are still apart of the transitional government. That to me points to a people who are open to free elections, at least this once. If those take place effectively they can establish a tradition of democratic elections, as inherently flawed as those are.

I'm still not certain anything substantial changes in Egypt because of how important they are for the US and Israel militarily so that's a very tricky situation.

Good topic, hope it doesn't get too malicious in here since I spent most of my morning class today re-loading google news.

LizardState
01-28-2011, 02:58 PM
Egypt's govt. has been the recipient of the most total $ in US foreign aid for quite some time now, & the vast majority of its people live in poverty.

They are rioting b/c they believe their corrupt govt. has been pocketing most of this aid from the US & other nations.

The US has asked that they control their radical Muslim extremists, some of whom attacked & killed American tourists. Egypt is still on the list of countries with mandatory warnings to US passport holders traveling there, they havent done anything to make their country safer.

I say reduce our aid to zero, let their corrupt govt. implode

JoeJoeBrown
01-28-2011, 03:03 PM
Egypt's govt. has been the recipient of the most total $ in US foreign aid for quite some time now, & the vast majority of its people live in poverty.

They are rioting b/c they believe their corrupt govt. has been pocketing most of this aid from the US & other nations.

The US has asked that they control their radical Muslim extremists, some of whom attacked & killed American tourists. Egypt is still on the list of countries with mandatory warnings to US passport holders traveling there, they havent done anything to make their country safer.

I say reduce our aid to zero, let their corrupt govt. implode

While I agree with you, to be the devil's advocate, people worry about what happens if Russia or China starts supplying aid to Egypt. I.e. what happens with the canal?

Me, I'm with you. We have compromised our ethos for far too long while playing old school Cold War strategy with too many countries.

Rosebud
01-28-2011, 03:04 PM
This will not only impact the Middle East, but it will also heavily impact Europe. A lot of people are going to be fleeing these countries and try to start new lives in Europe.

That will shape the landscape there as well.

There's been a lot of people coming to Europe from the middle east for a long time, I could definitely see this going the other way and a lot of the diaspora returning to their homelands in another 5 years of stability and growth.

BeerBaron
01-28-2011, 03:08 PM
The muslim world is changing. Younger muslims are much more westernized than their parents, and the muslim world is seeing a revolution similar to that seen in America in the 60s.

Modern islam is what the younger generation wants, but the governments of the countries they live in often do not favor such beliefs.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

One of the best posts I've read in a while. You basically nailed it.

Rosebud
01-28-2011, 03:10 PM
One of the best posts I've read in a while. You basically nailed it.

Man, I hope so. I dig Al Jazeera and the internets so I'd hope they were a good enough influence, but I'm still very curious to see how things work out.

iowatreat54
01-28-2011, 03:13 PM
Egypt's govt. has been the recipient of the most total $ in US foreign aid for quite some time now, & the vast majority of its people live in poverty.

They are rioting b/c they believe their corrupt govt. has been pocketing most of this aid from the US & other nations.

The US has asked that they control their radical Muslim extremists, some of whom attacked & killed American tourists. Egypt is still on the list of countries with mandatory warnings to US passport holders traveling there, they havent done anything to make their country safer.

I say reduce our aid to zero, let their corrupt govt. implode

Wait, are you saying that the largest portion of Egypt's foreign aid has been from the US, or that the largest portion of US foreign aid is going to Egypt?

I'm not exactly well schooled in US foreign aid, but it seems weird that most of our foreign aid would go to Egypt...

BeerBaron
01-28-2011, 03:17 PM
Wait, are you saying that the largest portion of Egypt's foreign aid has been from the US, or that the largest portion of US foreign aid is going to Egypt?

I'm not exactly well schooled in US foreign aid, but it seems weird that most of our foreign aid would go to Egypt...

I'm not trying to speak for him but I think that is it. And you'd be surprised to hear where a lot of our foreign aid goes...I had an amazing history teacher in high school who told us one time that it would shock most Americans to realize just how much of our money goes to places like Egypt, Turkey, various South American countries, etc. Places with a lot of corruption in their government but who are major strategic areas in terms of both economics and the military.

iowatreat54
01-28-2011, 03:18 PM
it would also be untrue:

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm

i've posted that with the full realization of who the #1 recipient is. this is not a thread about that country and that's one real easy way to send us all to locksville pretty quickly.

Haha I just found that. I would have guessed Israel, but Egypt just struck me as weird that they would be the most funded by the US.

Has anyone else heard/read/seen that the army has sided with the protestors? I haven't seen anything confirmed yet..

bigbluedefense
01-28-2011, 03:18 PM
Israel does receive the most aid. It's just not always dollar bills.

BeerBaron
01-28-2011, 03:19 PM
I just read that the army has been deployed, but not whether they are siding with the protesters or not.

VoteLynnSwan
01-28-2011, 03:27 PM
Haha I just found that. I would have guessed Israel, but Egypt just struck me as weird that they would be the most funded by the US.

Has anyone else heard/read/seen that the army has sided with the protestors? I haven't seen anything confirmed yet..

The Suez canal is as important as the Panama canal in terms of shipping. It is an important area to maintain stability in for economic (and military) purposes.

It shouldn't be surprising that Egypt receives so much financial support from the US. But... it's shady at best on the part of the US.

BeerBaron
01-28-2011, 03:30 PM
It shouldn't be surprising that Egypt receives so much financial support from the US. But... it's shady at best on the part of the US.

I believe it was FDR that said something along the lines of "they can be assholes, as long as they're our assholes." Meaning...they can be corrupt as they want, but god help them if they cross the US.

Chucky
01-28-2011, 04:04 PM
Man, I hope so. I dig Al Jazeera and the internets so I'd hope they were a good enough influence, but I'm still very curious to see how things work out.

People like Al- Jazeera :/

also....people need to keep Israel out of this conversation or else we can wave goodbye to this thread

Rosebud
01-28-2011, 04:07 PM
People like Al- Jazeera :/

also....people need to keep Israel out of this conversation or else we can wave goodbye to this thread

Al Jazeera does lack with their sources sometimes, but they're no worse than Fox, CNN or the BBC. *shrug*

FlyingElvis
01-28-2011, 04:12 PM
I find it hysterical that the regime in Egypt figured a curfew would have any impact. lol

BeerBaron
01-28-2011, 04:14 PM
I find it hysterical that the regime in Egypt figured a curfew would have any impact. lol

Yeah, this regime apparently isn't that bright...

You have angry, even violent protesters and you....give them a curfew and take away their social media....

I didn't realize they were all grounded teenagers!

FlyingElvis
01-28-2011, 04:18 PM
Yes, I'm sure that's why they did it. Still . . . lol.

Egypt's Pres is speaking now.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2011, 04:27 PM
rhetoric . . . blah blah blah


he's going to set up all sorts of stuff to help the poor . . . etc.


30 years in power and he's just getting to that now. yeah, I'm doubting the masses say "Ok, Boss." and head on home.


woah . . . wait . . . now he's saying he'll step down and set up a new government tomorrow. Of course, that could still mean he's going to try to pass the reigns to his son.

lol . . . edit . . . ok, that's a big miss. He's going to set up a new goverment with himself as the only exception. "Everybody has to go but me."

Paranoidmoonduck
01-28-2011, 04:29 PM
Smooth Mubarak. "I'm not leaving, but everyone else who's done such a bad job, you're done."

That will end well.

Chucky
01-28-2011, 04:31 PM
al-jazeera gets a bad rap from people who've never watched it, but have made assumptions based on some of the material they've run in the past. it's one of the best international mainstream news sources.

for instance, the massive flooding in pakistan, that killed ~1700 people, was a bare footnote on any of the US media sites, if it even rated that high.

Ive watched it and while they definately do shed a larger light on the Middle East and not just the "standard" stuff I find the work they do on the "standard" stuff way tooooo bias for my liking and practically unwatchable.

In regards to the bolded....that doesn't mean much.

Paranoidmoonduck
01-28-2011, 04:36 PM
In regards to the bolded....that doesn't mean much.

If not, are you insinuating that our national news is somehow a cut above?

Chucky
01-28-2011, 04:38 PM
*shrug* i disagree. but then, if you spend a lot of time watching american media, i can see where that would come from (not in terms of opposite bias, necessarily). but take, for instance, the bbc, which is still far better than any of our msm (internationally, i'm sure it's not quite the daily mail in london, but i can't say it's unbiased there, either). i'd still generally watch al-jazeera first. occasionally i've watched the corresponding al-arabiya story as well, to see if it's reported differently, or if other areas are highlighted.

in any case, both are worth far more than whatever silliness is on us media right now.

Ya...I hate the BBC just as much to be perfectly honest along with all the other garbage.I don't watch any mainstream news anymore to be honest....too infuraiting.Just follow a select few blogs(such as reason) along with the economist(which has really taken a turn for the worse over the past few years.).

Rosebud
01-28-2011, 04:41 PM
al-jazeera gets a bad rap from people who've never watched it, but have made assumptions based on some of the material they've run in the past. it's one of the best international mainstream news sources.

for instance, the massive flooding in pakistan, that killed ~1700 people, was a bare footnote on any of the US media sites, if it even rated that high.

Al-Jazeera does good but they do run some really shady stories some time.

i'm frankly more curious what's going on in yemen right now. they're on the verge of becoming an actual failed state. and between them and somalia, it won't much matter if the canal's open because no one will be able to get through the gulf of aden.

Yemen's government has had control over anything other than Sana'a in god knows how long, I can't really see it getting much worse, you know what I mean.

JoeJoeBrown
01-28-2011, 04:56 PM
i dunno, they've been able to pay off the tribal-warlord-folk with their oil money, but if those people have decided to let saleh go **** himself, that's a massive amount of territory that's, really, no better than anything in somalia. at least while they were being paid, there could be some semblance of order.

Yeah, Yemen could end up being even crazier than Somalia. It has 2.5x the people, projected to grow to 60M by 2050. I mean, it's a crowded, chaotic, oil state. And their oil is supposedly going to run dry sometime over the next 10 years.

Good lord it could get ugly if the Gulf of Aden is unnavigable due to pirates. Especially for the Euros.

Brent
01-28-2011, 04:57 PM
http://cdn-media.channelme.tv/media/images/000000/15/98/MTU~OTk4_large.jpg

which side is this dude on?

BeerBaron
01-28-2011, 04:59 PM
Yeah, Yemen could end up being even crazier than Somalia. It has 2.5x the people, projected to grow to 60M by 2050. I mean, it's a crowded, chaotic, oil state. And their oil is supposedly going to run dry sometime over the next 10 years.

Good lord it could get ugly if the Gulf of Aden is unnavigable due to pirates. Especially for the Euros.

Would very likely prompt international military action if it got too out of hand. There is waaay too much money at stake in shipping in that area.

eaglesalltheway
01-28-2011, 05:05 PM
http://cdn-media.channelme.tv/media/images/000000/15/98/MTU~OTk4_large.jpg

which side is this dude on?

Whichever side he's on, they'll win.

JoeJoeBrown
01-28-2011, 05:05 PM
Would very likely prompt international military action if it got too out of hand. There is waaay too much money at stake in shipping in that area.

Yep. That area could be the next minor conflict ala Iraq and Afghanistan (I say minor wrt Vietnam, Korea, WWII, WWI, etc...)

Jvig43
01-28-2011, 05:13 PM
Yep. That area could be the next minor conflict ala Iraq and Afghanistan (I say minor wrt Vietnam, Korea, WWII, WWI, etc...)

WW3, its happening.

BeerBaron
01-28-2011, 05:15 PM
WW3, its happening.

Because of some pirates in Yemen.....dammit all!!

I suppose it's not that much worse than the assassination of an Archduke in Bosnia though...

Jvig43
01-28-2011, 05:20 PM
Because of some pirates in Yemen.....dammit all!!

I suppose it's not that much worse than the assassination of an Archduke in Bosnia though...

Haha ******* pirates.

JoeJoeBrown
01-28-2011, 05:29 PM
Because of some pirates in Yemen.....dammit all!!

I suppose it's not that much worse than the assassination of an Archduke in Bosnia though...

Yeah, but the rich countries have too much at stake. They like engaging in proxy wars and skirmishes. More money for their war machines and they get to try and carve out a bit more of a chunk of whatever resource they are targeting.

I guess you could say I'm becoming jaded and cynical.
If you guys want an bearish/economic site, you can try zerohedge. (http://www.zerohedge.com) It's getting a bit too overloaded with doomsday type crap, but there is still a lot of good economic insight and some current affairs stuff that our media glosses over.

I too like Reason. I also agree with Chucky that the Economist has fallen off in quality quite a bit. I think all of the Keynesians are starting to panic.

BeerBaron
01-28-2011, 05:35 PM
it would certainly be easier to explain.

I had a professor one time who said that he actually did teach a class for a few semesters just on the causes of WWI. It's a long, complicated mess that basically boils down to too many interconnected alliances.

Brent
01-28-2011, 05:39 PM
i think it's more vital to know who's side rachel weisz is on.
Darren Aronofsky's, which is, as far as I am concerned, the best director/screenwriter right now and, thus, worthy.

JoeJoeBrown
01-28-2011, 05:47 PM
Darren Aronofsky's, which is, as far as I am concerned, the best director/screenwriter right now and, thus, worthy.

That guy is such a nerd, yet he's with a hot woman, and gets very hot women to do very perverted things on film. He has magical wizard powers.

someone447
01-28-2011, 06:11 PM
WW3, its happening.

I said WWIII was coming back during the whole cartoon thing in '05/'06. For there to be that much vitriol over something so insignificant meant that it was only a matter of time before it exploded. The world-wide economic crisis has become the trigger that set it off. People don't riot when things are going well.

The Unseen
01-28-2011, 09:15 PM
Mubarak you piece of ****

JoeJoeBrown
01-28-2011, 10:20 PM
OT posts deleted. cmon guys. i'm trying here.

Apologies. You are doing great. No angst whatsoever on this thread so far.

TitanHope
01-29-2011, 01:53 AM
This is how the Sphinx lost it's nose. :(

someone447
01-29-2011, 03:58 AM
This is how the Sphinx lost it's nose. :(

**** Napoleon! That's the real reason people wanted "Freedom Fries" rather than French Fries.

Quailman
01-29-2011, 05:40 AM
Link to twitter user @akuma_river (http://twitter.com/#!/akuma_river)

AJE: Protesters gathering in Tahir Sq in Cairo reportedly 50k & growing. #Egypt #Jan29

AJE: protesters changing 'down with the regime' carrying Egyptian flags in Cairo #Egypt #Jan29

Link to live coverage (http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/)

All I have to say is, go protesters!!

bigbluedefense
01-29-2011, 06:34 AM
It all depends on that army. The army has a very good relationship with the people of Egypt.

Some were even cheering on the protestors. So we'll see what the army decides to do. My guess is it sides with the people and takes down the Mubarak regime.

They're the key in all of this. What they do will decide what happens in Egypt.

Quailman
01-29-2011, 06:45 AM
It all depends on that army. The army has a very good relationship with the people of Egypt.

Some were even cheering on the protestors. So we'll see what the army decides to do. My guess is it sides with the people and takes down the Mubarak regime.

They're the key in all of this. What they do will decide what happens in Egypt.

We'll know in about 1 hour what their decision is. The curfew had been pushed back from 4:00 to 6:00 and whether or not the army enforces the curfew will be a turning point based on what I know (which is basically what I'm reading on twitter).

Also I've read that the police are being especially brutal, apparently they're using shrapnel bullets, live bullets, water cannons, rocks, and teargas. The death toll is at 108, the hospitals are full and not prepared. We'll see what happens.

http://twitter.com/akuma_river/status/31332111126372353
AJE: looks like hundreds of thousands of protesters in Cairo #Egypt #Jan25 #Jan28 #Jan29

Yikes. This is exciting. I feel like I'm watching history unfold right before my eyes.

Quailman
01-29-2011, 07:04 AM
One hour until curfew, the army is everywhere, over 250,000 people are gathered. The ruling party's headquarters are burning. The police have killed hundreds. Political prisoners are now being executed. The army is protecting the museums but not the party's headquarters. This is about to get very messy. History is unfolding right before our eyes.

Mr. Goosemahn
01-29-2011, 08:05 AM
ThvBJMzmSZI

http://i.imgur.com/YU3Ww.jpg

Eaglez.Fan
01-29-2011, 09:31 AM
Why do the Egyptians think anything will change if they get the army on their side? Yes the current government will be done with but if the army takes over it will simply give rise to a Mubarak 2.0.

Forenci
01-29-2011, 09:39 AM
Pretty amazing stuff. It just goes to show you what people can do if they really want it.

It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds now.

Jvig43
01-29-2011, 11:00 AM
Goose that is an amazing video.

bigbluedefense
01-29-2011, 11:04 AM
A lot of priceless items have been damaged at the national museum.

So sad. That museum holds some of the most incredible antiques in the world.

Brent
01-29-2011, 11:30 AM
A lot of priceless items have been damaged at the national museum.

So sad. That museum holds some of the most incredible antiques in the world.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gGiADb4YzqsC_nlgj5gkFPvXl7RA?docId=3944f4eda 7c64f4c9449a7c017d6e281

Early Saturday morning, Egyptian army commandoes secured the museum and its grounds, located near some of the most intense of the mass anti-government protests sweeping across the capital.

Before the army arrived, young Egyptians some armed with truncheons grabbed off the police created a human chain at the museum's front gate to prevent looters from making off with any of its priceless artifacts.

"They managed to stop them," Hawass said. He added that the would-be looters only managed to vandalize two mummies, ripping their heads off. They also cleared out the museum gift shop.

He said the museum's prized King Tutankhamun exhibit, which includes the boy pharaoh's gold death mask, had not been damaged and was safe.

An Associated Press Television News crew that was allowed into the museum saw two vandalized mummies and at least 10 small artifacts that had been taken out of their glass cases and damaged.

Paul
01-29-2011, 11:34 AM
http://i.imgur.com/Z9UUr.jpg

Chucky
01-29-2011, 12:01 PM
What is Egypts main opposition party like? All this action is potentially "great" but depending on what the opposition is like it could all be moot.

bigbluedefense
01-29-2011, 12:07 PM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gGiADb4YzqsC_nlgj5gkFPvXl7RA?docId=3944f4eda 7c64f4c9449a7c017d6e281

That was yesterday I believe. Al Jazeera is reporting that many artifacts were damaged. They're showing video feed of the damaged antiques as well.

Rob S
01-29-2011, 12:09 PM
What is Egypts main opposition party like? All this action is potentially "great" but depending on what the opposition is like it could all be moot.

I know some Egyptians from Cairo that I have been able to reach out to, the consensus:

- Mubarak is horrific (although they wouldn't say it over the phone out of fear, they have said this previously in America when visiting).

- If the Brotherhood takes over it will be a disaster and feels like it will lead to an Iranian type theocracy and bad times for Coptics.

- If one of the democratic leaders that Mubarak jailed takes the lead on the new government, it could work as long as separation of church and state is something they carefully attempt to integrate.

- These actions certainly are not great and the funding for the revolution is coming from seedy places. The motives of the leaders of the revolution are dubious at best and Egypt could very well become even worse off than with Mubarak especially since tourism is certain to decline if they move away from Westernization (which has been happening anyway over the past 10 years, but is likely to accelerate).

Brent
01-29-2011, 12:09 PM
for those who know history, does this feel like Iran in 1979?

bigbluedefense
01-29-2011, 12:13 PM
I don't know why, but this thread just reminded me of this song.

KTGxPiEg7iM

Chucky
01-29-2011, 12:19 PM
I know some Egyptians from Cairo that I have been able to reach out to, the consensus:



- If the Brotherhood takes over it will be a disaster and feels like it will lead to an Iranian type theocracy and bad times for Coptics.


for those who know history, does this feel like Iran in 1979?

That's pretty much my thinking of what is going to happen.

Rob S
01-29-2011, 12:23 PM
It just annoys me that so many Americans are blindly backing this without real information. While getting Mubarak out is awesome, it has to be done carefully and it must be well planned.....right now, it's not and the entire revolution is being funded by the wrong people. This is in no way good for America and could very well be a disaster for Egypt as well.

Brent
01-29-2011, 12:29 PM
It just annoys me that so many Americans are blindly backing this without real information. While getting Mubarak out is awesome, it has to be done carefully and it must be well planned.....right now, it's not and the entire revolution is being funded by the wrong people. This is in no way good for America and could very well be a disaster for Egypt as well.
Context and understanding are two things that Americans don't care for. You should know this.

Forenci
01-29-2011, 12:29 PM
It just annoys me that so many Americans are blindly backing this without real information. While getting Mubarak out is awesome, it has to be done carefully and it must be well planned.....right now, it's not and the entire revolution is being funded by the wrong people. This is in no way good for America and could very well be a disaster for Egypt as well.

I don't "support it" because I think it will be good for America, I support it because I believe if done correctly (as you mention) it could be great for the people of Egypt, which is by far the most important thing in all of this.

Rob S
01-29-2011, 12:37 PM
I don't "support it" because I think it will be good for America, I support it because I believe if done correctly (as you mention) it could be great for the people of Egypt, which is by far the most important thing in all of this.

"If done correctly" is the key. The problem with supporting the current revolution is the fact that all indications point to the fact that this isn't being done correctly unless there are some major changes and the revolutionaries are willing to piss off a lot of their financial backers for the sake of the Egyptian people.

Crickett
01-29-2011, 12:47 PM
It just annoys me that so many Americans are blindly backing this without real information. While getting Mubarak out is awesome, it has to be done carefully and it must be well planned.....right now, it's not and the entire revolution is being funded by the wrong people. This is in no way good for America and could very well be a disaster for Egypt as well.

5q3z4IP_nNU

VoteLynnSwan
01-29-2011, 12:55 PM
It just annoys me that so many Americans are blindly backing this without real information. While getting Mubarak out is awesome, it has to be done carefully and it must be well planned.....right now, it's not and the entire revolution is being funded by the wrong people. This is in no way good for America and could very well be a disaster for Egypt as well.

This is clearly a horrible situation for America... I want to break down the possible courses of action the US has in this matter...

1. Do nothing. This will cause problems at home with the bleeding hearts... and if the revolution is successful, it will breed resentment because we didn't help... if it is unsuccessful, they'll hate us more.

2. Support the Egyptian government. This will not make us look good. Nothing more needs to be said about this... Not something we can morally do.

3. Support the revolution. This undoubtedly would backfire as bad as the Afgan vs. Soviet Union debacle (obviously a different situation there... but I meant as far as leaving Egypt open to political and social forces that would be bad for US interests)

Nothing good will come of this situation as far as global economics and politics go.

Of course I can never take a stand against a person's right to freedom.

Eaglez.Fan
01-29-2011, 01:02 PM
Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289686/Egypt-protests-Americas-secret-backing-for-rebel-leaders-behind-uprising.html)

I won't comment too much at the risk of getting into more politics but this is an interesting scenario IMO.

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 01:09 PM
for those who know history, does this feel like Iran in 1979?

Not going to lie, this does scare me a bit. From what I've gathered the motivation behind this is a little bit different from the people on the street. I've abstained from commenting in this thread because I'm really worried about the Brotherhood getting into this. Really not sure what to think of all of this to be honest, but obviously the Egyptian people have some major reasons to be doing all this.

The Unseen
01-29-2011, 01:09 PM
While there is a threat of fundamentalist takeover, I personally don't think it's great. The massive protesting was started by moderate/liberal disenfranchised youths who are tired of everything. There was the fact that the Christian protesters made a barricade of themselves to protect the Muslims as they were praying. Or that video when the guy says that he doesn't care if you're a Christian or Muslim or atheist, but about your goddamn rights.

So I think this will be positive overall. Regime change will be, most importantly, better for the people of Egypt. I'm not so much concerned about how America fares in this right now, because any negatives for America aren't really comparable to an increase in political freedom for Egyptians (the negatives for America are probably just losing face and getting a Little More Worried about Terrorism and Our Ally Israel)

descendency
01-29-2011, 01:16 PM
3. Support the revolution. This undoubtedly would backfire as bad as the Afgan vs. Soviet Union debacle (obviously a different situation there... but I meant as far as leaving Egypt open to political and social forces that would be bad for US interests)

That's a really really really loose comparison. The Afghanistan situation is made more complex for a huge number of reasons. Egypt wouldn't be nearly as bad. However, it could still be a breeding ground for political herpes.

The biggest problem we had in Afghanistan is that we gave large amount of guns and supplies to a very fundamentalist group (because they were the most dominant force on the field at the time against the Soviets). Once they were in power, we didn't really estimate how hard it would be to clean them up later if we had to do so.

I really don't know the direct situation on the ground in Egypt, but I do know Afghanistan may be the hardest place on earth (bigger than Rhode Island) to invade and take over (purely due to geography).

There was the fact that the Christian protesters made a barricade of themselves to protect the Muslims as they were praying.

Oh ****. This is serious. Muslims and Christians are getting a-long and helping one another.

Paul
01-29-2011, 01:33 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/SultanAlQassemi/status/31337367352639488

Al Jazeera reporter: "I received calls from hospitals in Egypt by doctors telling me they have been told not to record deaths by bullets"

ElectricEye
01-29-2011, 01:51 PM
It just annoys me that so many Americans are blindly backing this without real information. While getting Mubarak out is awesome, it has to be done carefully and it must be well planned.....right now, it's not and the entire revolution is being funded by the wrong people. This is in no way good for America and could very well be a disaster for Egypt as well.

This, this, and more this.

The Unseen
01-29-2011, 02:20 PM
I'm not "blindly" backing anything. This is a people's revolution against oppression, which I always at least have reason to back, and I have argued why I don't think it will get as hairy as people think. What I'm tired of, and would like to say "This, this, and more this" to, is the natural tepidness of people to being supportive of such revolutions because they automatically want to be inquisitive or careful or seem concerned about America's place in what they see as some incomprehensible debacle. I think if we're going to be talking about unquestioningly resorting to opinions, resorting to this milquetoast view is just as much a candidate for that as what people like me are being accused of.

someone447
01-29-2011, 03:26 PM
My cousin is studying abroad in Egypt right now. Well, she isn't actually studying at this moment, she is mostly just locked in her apartment.

JoeJoeBrown
01-29-2011, 04:18 PM
I just want to say that this thread is full of win.

Not only have we kept it civil, it's highly informative. This is a great discussion. Props to members and admins (njx) alike.

Rob S
01-29-2011, 06:42 PM
I'm not "blindly" backing anything. This is a people's revolution against oppression, which I always at least have reason to back, and I have argued why I don't think it will get as hairy as people think. What I'm tired of, and would like to say "This, this, and more this" to, is the natural tepidness of people to being supportive of such revolutions because they automatically want to be inquisitive or careful or seem concerned about America's place in what they see as some incomprehensible debacle. I think if we're going to be talking about unquestioningly resorting to opinions, resorting to this milquetoast view is just as much a candidate for that as what people like me are being accused of.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but (especially in this day and age) following the money trail is generally where you get the real information. If you follow the money trail on this, it unquestionably DOES lead to a more fundamentalist theocratic state. I can't say much more because it will get really political really fast, but suffice to say that if this revolution results in a true democracy embracing the separation of church and state, it is going to piss off a lot of people (the people that got the ball rolling). Now, that's not to support Mubarak or condemn the rioting. Listen, I get it: I think the majority of Egyptians are rioting for the right reasons and want a more westernized government and to simply unshackle themselves from oppression, but the leaders of the revolution are not. I have spoken to people actual Egyptians and some other contacts and this is what I know on good authority.

Could it result in democracy, absolutely. However, the revolutionary leaders are going to have to be overthrown by the people or they will need side with the people instead of money and, unfortunately, that just doesn't happen very often. We'll see.....

Rob S
01-29-2011, 06:49 PM
Also, despite twitter reports and the like: I know for a fact that the majority of the Coptics (in Cairo at least) are rooting for Mubarak to retain power even though they despise him. Take that for whatever you will.

senormysterioso
01-29-2011, 06:54 PM
That's a really really really loose comparison. The Afghanistan situation is made more complex for a huge number of reasons. Egypt wouldn't be nearly as bad. However, it could still be a breeding ground for political herpes.

The biggest problem we had in Afghanistan is that we gave large amount of guns and supplies to a very fundamentalist group (because they were the most dominant force on the field at the time against the Soviets). Once they were in power, we didn't really estimate how hard it would be to clean them up later if we had to do so.

I really don't know the direct situation on the ground in Egypt, but I do know Afghanistan may be the hardest place on earth (bigger than Rhode Island) to invade and take over (purely due to geography).



Oh ****. This is serious. Muslims and Christians are getting a-long and helping one another.

The thing about Afghanistan is that it has always been 3rd world, and it will always be 3rd world (outside of Kabul). My team chief was there in 04 and they would get shot at, every time they rolled through this one villiage in Konar. Seriously, they would take contact no matter what time it was, what they were doing, every time. Eventually they went to the Mullah of the village and asked him what was up. He told them that he was a mujahideen and he swore an oath to fight the Soviets. That's how far behind that country is, there is basically no centralized communications or mass media. These dudes didn't even know that the Soviets had withdrawn, let alone that the Soviet Union had fallen.

Egypt is a much larger economy and has been somewhat of a voice of reason in the Middle East. The rational world cannot afford to lose the little bit of a foothold that it has in Egypt. Unfortunately for Egypt though, they picked an awful time for the pot to boil over, because Europe is essentially bankrupt and the US is fighting a two front war, along with major troop commitments in the Horn of Africa as well as South Korea. The "secret wars" of the 80's aren't as practical anymore either. It's a tense situation for the entire world.

LizardState
01-30-2011, 07:32 AM
Wait, are you saying that the largest portion of Egypt's foreign aid has been from the US, or that the largest portion of US foreign aid is going to Egypt?

I'm not exactly well schooled in US foreign aid, but it seems weird that most of our foreign aid would go to Egypt...

Egypt strangely is the #1 destination of total USD in foreign aid, Israel was #1 for a long while, now #2 or 3.

The thing about Afghanistan is that it has always been 3rd world, and it will always be 3rd world (outside of Kabul). My team chief was there in 04 and they would get shot at, every time they rolled through this one villiage in Konar. Seriously, they would take contact no matter what time it was, what they were doing, every time. Eventually they went to the Mullah of the village and asked him what was up. He told them that he was a mujahideen and he swore an oath to fight the Soviets. That's how far behind that country is, there is basically no centralized communications or mass media. These dudes didn't even know that the Soviets had withdrawn, let alone that the Soviet Union had fallen.

Egypt is a much larger economy and has been somewhat of a voice of reason in the Middle East. The rational world cannot afford to lose the little bit of a foothold that it has in Egypt. Unfortunately for Egypt though, they picked an awful time for the pot to boil over, because Europe is essentially bankrupt and the US is fighting a two front war, along with major troop commitments in the Horn of Africa as well as South Korea. The "secret wars" of the 80's aren't as practical anymore either. It's a tense situation for the entire world.


Afghanistan or Iraq's new govt, is I'm sure at the top of the list now. Not to divert the thread topic, but the corruption of US aid there to the Karzai govt. has caused their corrupt Afghan govt. into meltdown mode b/c he stole another election, Iran-style, & his warlord brother is the biggest supplier of opium for heroin manufacture in Afghanistan .... allegedly.

That support with US $ & our troops is more objectionable in the most ungovernable country in the world (except maybe Somalia where they still have the notorious pirates operating in international waters). The pacification of the Horn of Africa is all about the flow of Saudi & regional oil in supertankers through the Strait of Hormuz for rcd. quarterly profits by oil companies despite no shortages. Gas is $3.38/gal. here for regular, just a major gouge.

I had a friend from college in the Peace Corps in Nepal in the late 70s, he said ppl. traveled around these remote mtn. paths in the Himalayas & he was warned when he 1st got there that you didn't take certain paths b/c they led to Afghanistan, & that country was just bad news, always has been. Thankfully we have a firm exit date to get out of there b/c no foreign occupier has ever been successful there from Alexander the Great to the former Soviet Union.....

Brent
01-30-2011, 09:59 AM
i'd add: http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/31987.pdf
the pages about why they distribute to certain places was a rather interesting read. I did get a kick out (and by that I mean cried a little on the inside) of the part about how the FY2004 budget for spending in Iraq and Afghanistan by the GS Gov't surpassed all other budgets combined.

Brent
01-30-2011, 10:27 AM
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/201113085252994161.html

"The Egyptian authorities are revoking the Al Jazeera Network's licence to broadcast from the country, and will be shutting down its bureau office in Cairo, state television has said."

LizardState
01-30-2011, 03:20 PM
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/201113085252994161.html

"The Egyptian authorities are revoking the Al Jazeera Network's licence to broadcast from the country, and will be shutting down its bureau office in Cairo, state television has said."

AJ was was fanning the flames apparently.

Their Air Force was flying F16s at low levels over the crowds demonstrating in Cairo during the CBS live broadcast of Face the Nation this morning, it was deafening! They were trying to intimidate them to disperse but all it did was enflame them more.

The Egyptian commenter said they were demanding yesterday for Mubarek to resign, today they were demanding "his trial." Sounds like the opposition isn't backing down at all, they think they can get what they have demanded. It's almost a full-blown revolution now, with looting reported by cops out of uniform & mobs of armed gunmen in the streets.

JoeJoeBrown
01-30-2011, 04:22 PM
AJ was was fanning the flames apparently.

Their Air Force was flying F16s at low levels over the crowds demonstrating in Cairo during the CBS live broadcast of Face the Nation this morning, it was deafening! They were trying to intimidate them to disperse but all it did was enflame them more.

The Egyptian commenter said they were demanding yesterday for Mubarek to resign, today they were demanding "his trial." Sounds like the opposition isn't backing down at all, they think they can get what they have demanded. It's almost a full-blown revolution now, with looting reported by cops out of uniform & mobs of armed gunmen in the streets.

Yeah, it's devolving into complete chaos now. Revolution is usually messy.
There will be a power struggle. Hopefully some sort of open society comes out of this vs the Iranian theocracy.

This Pew report (http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/Pew-Global-Attitudes-Muslim-Report-FINAL-December-2-2010.pdf) indicates that there is a bit more extremism in Egypt (and Jordan) than I had realized. Kinda discouraging, but hopefully reason wins out. Especially since these people are sick of the corruption.

JoeJoeBrown
01-30-2011, 04:52 PM
whose air force? egypt's?

Yes, Egypt's. They were trying to spook the crowds.

The Unseen
01-30-2011, 05:12 PM
As to who's leading the revolution:

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/1/29/live_from_the_egyptian_revolution_by_sharif_abdel_ kouddous

"There is a great sense of pride that this is a leaderless movement organized by the people. A genuine popular revolt. It was not organized by opposition movements, though they have now joined the protesters in Tahrir. The Muslim Brotherhood was out in full force today. At one point they began chanting "Allah Akbar" only to be drowne...d out by much louder chants of "Muslim, Christian, we are all Egyptian."

Brent
01-30-2011, 05:13 PM
whose air force? egypt's?
Yes, first a couple fighters flew very close to the ground to scare protesters off with the noise (anyone who's been to a CFB game where there is a flyover knows how deafeningly loud that can be), then a helicopter flew over but it turned nearly sideways and circled the crowd. Interestingly enough, it was a civilian-looking copter, but was identified as belonging to the presidential guard.

LizardState
01-30-2011, 05:25 PM
whose air force? egypt's?

US-made F16s, from the Peace Delta Program. Made in Ft. Worth by Lockheed, formerly General Dynamics, I worked there in the late 80s. Only a single engine aircraft but those turbofans make lots of noise. Clearly CBS coverage was using it to max effect with the hotel rm. balcony door open. Interesting that Bob Schieffer was plugging the F16s, he's btw from Ft. Worth too.

With no internet & local TV & radio stns. shut down the US & western news outlet there take on a much greater importance to gain US & European public sympathy for this budding revolution.

Just a matter of time before local video cameras start smuggling this footage out to youtube. With that ongoing & western TV camera crews recording it the govt. can't start mass murdering thousands of protesters, I think the military will cave in a day or so as in Iran, then it's all over for Mubarek. He may have been trying to negotiate an exile for himself but I doubt any other Muslim country will take him now, even his former allies in Syria, Jordan, North Africa or Saudi Arabia.

steelersfan43
01-30-2011, 06:01 PM
- These actions certainly are not great and the funding for the revolution is coming from seedy places. The motives of the leaders of the revolution are dubious at best and Egypt could very well become even worse off than with Mubarak especially since tourism is certain to decline if they move away from Westernization (which has been happening anyway over the past 10 years, but is likely to accelerate).

What funding? It doesnt cost money to go out on the street.

FlyingElvis
01-31-2011, 10:24 AM
It will take money to secure power after the revolution, either way. That's where things get a bit hairy.

However, the people seem to be out for the right reasons and that's why I support it. Unemployment, inflation (especially in food prices) and a generally unresponsive government . . . how can anyone not support a movement stemming from that type of environment?


The regime responded to cries that it was tyrannical by:

Forcing phone carriers to shut down services
Forcing ISPs to shut down services
Shutting down transportation
Instituting curfews
Making no public address or response for several days while doing all of the above and, finally;
Mubarek stands before the people and says "Everybody is fired except me."


I can understand the concern for the potential negative impact on the US / World interests there, but I'm supporting what appears to be a nation full of people who are right in their refusal to continue under their current leadership.

Brent
02-01-2011, 02:07 PM
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

Mubarak to speak soon, people in streets going nuts. Could be epic.

Paul
02-01-2011, 02:19 PM
Whoa. I'm actually kind of anxious to see what he says.

Brent
02-01-2011, 02:44 PM
meh.

"dudes, i've totally fired everyone. why don't you all calm down and realize that i'm awesome. look, we'll even re-do the elections (by then, you'll have all calmed down enough to barely even notice when i 'win' 99.6% of the vote again)."
well, the military does not like him, so I imagine it's possible for them to turn on the government buildings and have a hostile take over.

JoeJoeBrown
02-01-2011, 02:56 PM
Obama has supposedly told Mubarak and his son to not run in the fall elections. If this is true:
1) This is probably the most peaceful way to resolve the issue.
2) Move up the elections to this spring or early summer.

Brent
02-01-2011, 03:02 PM
doesnt sound like he'll step down, here comes the violence.

Twiddler
02-01-2011, 03:04 PM
doesnt sound like he'll step down, here comes the violence.

Yeah, he's making it sound like he's sticking around for a few months and then resigning after the next election. Not sure how its going to sit with the rioters, but I'm guessing it won't be good.

thefalconer
02-01-2011, 03:15 PM
i kinda feel for mubarek.

thefalconer
02-02-2011, 11:44 AM
pro-mubarek protestors, speculated to be plain-clothes police officers, charged and temporarily blocked tahrir square, the epicenter of the protests. hundreds thought to be injured. seems like mubarek was serious about the people choosing him or chaos.

Brent
02-02-2011, 03:02 PM
Pro- and anti-government people are fighting in the streets. Molotov cocktails are being thrown Mubarak supporters and the military is begging people to leave the streets.

Looks like the peaceful demonstrations are over.

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

thefalconer
02-02-2011, 03:50 PM
yep things are getting crazy with a lot more people staying out in the streets late into the night. i'm anticipating what will happen tomorrow. goddamnit i wanna be in cairo right now.

The Unseen
02-02-2011, 03:53 PM
**** is gonna get real. They need to surround his mansion and smoke him out.

yourfavestoner
02-02-2011, 03:56 PM
**** is gonna get real. They need to surround his mansion and smoke him out.

The question is who gets greens?

The Unseen
02-02-2011, 04:00 PM
The question is who gets greens?

If this protest had happened on April 20th..

"freeeeeedommm maaaaannnn"

bigbluedefense
02-02-2011, 04:00 PM
Egyptians are about to Ante up on Mubarak's ass.

3MUGAxpI0Bc

Rosebud
02-02-2011, 04:10 PM
They really need to figure out someway to force Mubarak to step down before his police force causes more serious damage and death. It just sucks to see a desperate despot destroying so much in a pathetic ploy to maintain his power. It's obvious that the people won't stop until he steps down immediately and it's becoming equally obvious that he will not go quietly without leaving a lot of chaos and carnage as a parting present.

thefalconer
02-02-2011, 05:31 PM
at least 3 dead and 1500 injured. i'm assuming mubarek is in a secret location right? if he was in his presidential palace, i would think it would've been ransacked by now.

ElectricEye
02-02-2011, 05:40 PM
The images coming out of Cairo right now are crazy.

TitleTown088
02-02-2011, 05:41 PM
I'm supposed to spend the summer in Egypt for school. Don't think that's going to happen.

Brent
02-02-2011, 05:51 PM
I'm supposed to spend the summer in Egypt for school. Don't think that's going to happen.
by then they could have a new government, so who knows.

thefalconer
02-02-2011, 06:06 PM
I'm supposed to spend the summer in Egypt for school. Don't think that's going to happen.

i would definitely try and go as long as it's not too dangerous.

Rosebud
02-02-2011, 06:49 PM
Yeah, if they have a new regime in place that could be a really awesome experience. I'm gunna spend my summer taking summer classes and working as a part-time intern...

TitleTown088
02-02-2011, 06:55 PM
by then they could have a new government, so who knows.

I don't think a school sponsored program is going to take a risk with something like that. It's not like that government is going to completely stabilize in a few months.

I got a research position in Romania lined up in case it falls through. I won't be disappointed either way. To tell the truth I'd probably rather go to Romania regardless of what happened in Egypt.

Brent
02-02-2011, 06:55 PM
I don't think a school sponsored program is going to take a risk with something like that.
don't be so cynical :D

senormysterioso
02-02-2011, 08:47 PM
I don't think a school sponsored program is going to take a risk with something like that. It's not like that government is going to completely stabilize in a few months.

I got a research position in Romania lined up in case it falls through. I won't be disappointed either way. To tell the truth I'd probably rather go to Romania regardless of what happened in Egypt.

Yah dude, Eastern Europe is so cool. Not to get off topic but, I was just in Ukraine a few months ago. All the women look like ravenous, dark haired super models that will **** you stupid and then beat the **** out of you.

Ok, back on topic, sending plain clothes police officers into a mob to start a riot is literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

ElectricEye
02-02-2011, 09:31 PM
Anderson Cooper got ****** up. Showed it on camera. Had multiple dudes hitting him. Lucky to make it out of that really.

diabsoule
02-02-2011, 09:44 PM
just gun fire everywhere... the interviews and feed an al-j is incredible.

njx enabled his rep! Oh happy day! one of us! one of us!

ElectricEye
02-02-2011, 09:46 PM
Yeah, it's out and out urban warfare there. Really scary stuff.

thefalconer
02-03-2011, 10:56 PM
protestors in egypt get hit by car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cWOK0Lfh7w#t=18s

uh.. yeah i don't wanna go there anymore.

trkaline
02-03-2011, 11:10 PM
Holy ****! That video looked like a gameplay video from the original gta.

JoeJoeBrown
02-03-2011, 11:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cWOK0Lfh7w#t=18s

uh.. yeah i don't wanna go there anymore.

HOLY ****. That was disturbing. I can understand the van panicking, but that guy aimed at people. What an evil SOB.

killxswitch
02-03-2011, 11:45 PM
There was definitely a lane for him to drive through but he either intentionally or recklessly drove through 20+ people. Horrible.

CashmoneyDrew
02-03-2011, 11:50 PM
The video wont play on my phone.

thefalconer
02-04-2011, 12:31 AM
can we get a spoiler on that stuff in the future? *shudder*

yeah that would've been smarter. soory guys.

VoteLynnSwan
02-04-2011, 10:04 AM
can we get a spoiler on that stuff in the future? *shudder*

the title of the video didn't give it away?

Boston
02-04-2011, 11:44 AM
Wow that was ****** up, I think the fact that people were cheering made it even worse.

killxswitch
02-04-2011, 11:50 AM
Wow that was ****** up, I think the fact that people were cheering made it even worse.

I don't think that was cheering.

VoteLynnSwan
02-04-2011, 02:05 PM
Wow that was ****** up, I think the fact that people were cheering made it even worse.

I think someone needs to learn the difference between cheering and jeering.

Brent
02-04-2011, 02:16 PM
"were you saying 'boo' or 'boo-urns'?"

DoughBoy
02-04-2011, 03:09 PM
protestors in egypt get hit by car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cWOK0Lfh7w#t=18s

uh.. yeah i don't wanna go there anymore.

That has to be one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen....

StickSkills
02-04-2011, 04:49 PM
I'll probably see worst.

The Unseen
02-04-2011, 07:53 PM
holy **** **** that was brutal

JoeJoeBrown
02-11-2011, 10:18 AM
Mubarak has stepped down. The army is control. Hoping that the transition is to a representative republic instead of more tyranny.

The Unseen
02-11-2011, 10:48 AM
Democracy!

**** Yeah!

Paul
02-11-2011, 11:02 AM
We did it you guys! Your welcome Egypt

killxswitch
02-11-2011, 11:51 AM
I think I would make a fantastic Egyptian president.

Scotty D
02-11-2011, 11:56 AM
bread helmet wins

The Unseen
02-11-2011, 03:04 PM
http://ismubarakstillpresident.com/

Razor
03-18-2011, 03:53 AM
The UN has voted to impose a no-flight zone over Libya. This will be in effect within a few hours according to a french government official. So far the UK, US, France, Denmark, Norway and Canada have said that they will participate to uphold the no-flight zone. As usual, the germans are pussies and decided to stay at home.

To me this is pretty big as it is the arabic community who has asked for western intervention. Hopefully this will help resolve the issues between the arabic world and the western world.

EDIT: And hopefully they'll be able to get rid of Gaddafi and give back the 60+ billions that he has stolen from the libyan people to Libya so the can re-build.