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View Full Version : Ryan Kerrigan: 4-3? 3-4? A 'Tweener?


Clarkw267
01-28-2011, 04:02 PM
I really like Kerrigan, but what do you guys think is his best fit?

He weighed in at 255 in Mobile, and that's a little concerning to me. Usually the smaller DEs in a 4-3 have elite quickness and explosiveness.

He also hasn't had to demonstrate the ability to play in space and coverage ability that is looked for in a 3-4 OLB.

I've heard the Chris Long comparisons, but Long weighed in at 272 and was a better athlete overall.

What are your thoughts?

rfc17
01-28-2011, 04:21 PM
Aaron Kampmann weighs 260. and I think the similarities between the two are striking. now obviously nobody could predict Kampmann's success or else he wouldnt have been drafted so late. and I agree if you are drafting a guy top 15, youd like there to be some impressive athletic ability. but Kerrigan's production is hard to overlook.

at worst, I think you are going to get a guy who will be a solid football player that works his butt off, character guy, and a good teammate. at best I think you get Kampmann. compared against a lot of guys who are more boom/bust, i dont think Kerrigan is a half bad option.

nepg
01-28-2011, 04:22 PM
Long was projected anywhere from a 4-3 DE, 4-3 DT, 3-4 DE, and 3-4 OLB. Allen Bailey is a comparison to Long. Kerrigan is simply a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE. Nothing earth-shattering. Not sure what, exactly, is conerning to you about the Prince of Blades.

BeerBaron
01-28-2011, 04:27 PM
Long was projected anywhere from a 4-3 DE, 4-3 DT, 3-4 DE, and 3-4 OLB. Allen Bailey is a comparison to Long. Kerrigan is simply a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE. Nothing earth-shattering. Not sure what, exactly, is conerning to you about the Prince of Blades.

I see you what you did there...

Anywho, Kerrigan isn't quite what Chris Long was. He's a bit of a tweener but he has a great motor and will play well in either position.

Babylon
01-28-2011, 04:31 PM
He reminds me of Mike Vrabel. Good college production, ability to get to the passer and smart enough to drop into coverage when needed. Seems like a perfect fit for the Patriots and would be a huge upgrade over what they have there.

ElectricEye
01-28-2011, 04:42 PM
I never bought Chris Long comps. He's a completely different player and is by no means a lesser athlete. Low 4.7 40 most likely, which isn't bad at 255. Now elite, but his first step is really good at within 15 yards he's pretty special.

PatrickWillis
01-28-2011, 04:44 PM
3-4 OLB priorities:

1)Pass Rush ability
2)Set the edge ability
3)Pass Rush Ability
4)Pass Rush ability


12) drop into coverage ability

ElectricEye
01-28-2011, 04:48 PM
3-4 OLB priorities:

1)Pass Rush ability
2)Set the edge ability
3)Pass Rush Ability
4)Pass Rush ability


12) drop into coverage ability

Pretty much. If you have a guy who can cover it's icing on the cake, but so many of these guys come out of college without experience playing coverage and it doesn't make them any less valuable players at the NFL level.

Day One Pick
01-28-2011, 05:19 PM
He also hasn't had to demonstrate the ability to play in space and coverage ability that is looked for in a 3-4 OLB.

The same can be said for a big majority of the 3-4 OLB's in the league. It's usually considered a projection position.

bucfan12
01-28-2011, 06:08 PM
Kerrigan's normal playing weight during his senior year was 265-268. There were reports to prepare for the senior bowl, he wanted to shed weight to make him more versatile and have teams look at him as both a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE.

If you're thinking he played this year at 255, you're wrong. It's just to attract interest from teams that run the 3-4 as well.

Umoro
01-28-2011, 06:23 PM
He could probably play 3-4 DE at 255-260. I don't think that Brett Keisel weighs much more than that and he plays 3-4 DE for the Steelers.

ElectricEye
01-28-2011, 06:25 PM
He could probably play 3-4 DE at 255-260. I don't think that Brett Keisel weighs much more than that and he plays 3-4 DE for the Steelers.

Why would you put one of the best pass rushers in the draft as a 3-4 DE where he won't actually rush the passer? Keisel is listed at 285 and built like a DT and would play there in a 4-3.

Umoro
01-28-2011, 06:29 PM
Why would you put one of the best pass rushers in the draft as a 3-4 DE where he won't actually rush the passer? Keisel is listed at 285 and built like a DT and would play there in a 4-3.

Who's to say that 3-4 DEs can't rush the passer? Bruce Smith is the NFL's career leader in sacks and he played 3-4 DE exclusively throughout his career.

brasho
01-28-2011, 06:52 PM
Who's to say that 3-4 DEs can't rush the passer? Bruce Smith is the NFL's career leader in sacks and he played 3-4 DE exclusively throughout his career.

He is the exception, not the rule. Wayne Martin of the formerly of the Saints was another exception... they don't come around very often/ The crazy thing about Bruce Smith is he was listed at 265 and I doubt he was much more than 250 for most of his career, especially late when he was tiny. He did kind of the Alan Page thing (where he ended up around 220 his last season playing with the Bears).

Anyway, 255 for a collegiate DE when he is as shredded as Kerrigan is no big deal at all. If he puts 10 lbs on he is perfect size as a RDE and 20 lbs would be fine as a LDE.

FYI, when Clay Matthews was weighed in at the combine he was 240... now I'm not suggesting that other guys are on Clay's training program (especially his LITTLE brother), but he probably weighs more than Kerrigan does right now.

ElectricEye
01-28-2011, 06:53 PM
Who's to say that 3-4 DEs can't rush the passer? Bruce Smith is the NFL's career leader in sacks and he played 3-4 DE exclusively throughout his career.

Exception, not the rule. Different era too. In todays NFL, anything under 280 is considered undersized for a 3-4 DE and even that is a little conservative. I would take a guy who can play the gaps and defend the run at 3-4 DE over a sack artist every single time and the NFL agrees with me for the most part. Kerrigan is a pass rusher, a guy you want to see get 10+ sacks a year. Very rare you see a 3-4 DE do that. Even rarer that you see one ASKED to do that. There's not a team in the NFL who has Kerrigan on their board as a five technique. I can almost guarantee that.

Plus...this is pretty much a historically good draft for five techniques. Why take Kerrigan with the necessary draft pick to get him and ask him to play a position and a role completely dissimilar to the one he played in college? You could get a guy who is a pretty sure bet at that position in the second round onward. Wouldn't make a lick of sense. No sense in trying to reinvent both Kerrigan and the nature of the position.

brasho
01-28-2011, 06:53 PM
I doubt John Abraham weighs more than 255.

brasho
01-28-2011, 06:54 PM
Exception, not the rule. .

HA HA, beat you to it by a couple seconds!

Matthew Jones
01-28-2011, 07:15 PM
3-4 OLB priorities:

1)Pass Rush ability
2)Set the edge ability
3)Pass Rush Ability
4)Pass Rush ability


12) drop into coverage ability

It really depends. In New England, the Patriots ask their outside linebackers to cover very often. Look at Adalius Thomas - he was paid big money and wasn't used as a pass rusher very often. The team primarily had him setting the edge vs. the run and covering tight ends on passing downs.

PatrickWillis
01-28-2011, 09:06 PM
It really depends. In New England, the Patriots ask their outside linebackers to cover very often. Look at Adalius Thomas - he was paid big money and wasn't used as a pass rusher very often. The team primarily had him setting the edge vs. the run and covering tight ends on passing downs.

Yeah, the Niners did the same thing with Manny Lawson and Parys Haralson for the past 2 years. They had a coordinator by the name of Greg Manusky who ran his 3-4 ass backwards and seems to think that dropping his backers and rushing 3 was an efficient way to play defense. "Pussyball" is what I call it. The Steelers, Jets, Ravens and Cowboys all have at least 1 premier rusher that can get to the quarterback. They all blitz and blitz often and attack the offense.

ElectricEye
01-28-2011, 09:43 PM
Yeah, the Niners did the same thing with Manny Lawson and Parys Haralson for the past 2 years. They had a coordinator by the name of Greg Manusky who ran his 3-4 ass backwards and seems to think that dropping his backers and rushing 3 was an efficient way to play defense. "Pussyball" is what I call it. The Steelers, Jets, Ravens and Cowboys all have at least 1 premier rusher that can get to the quarterback. They all blitz and blitz often and attack the offense.

We're Patriots fans. We're very familiar with rushing three on a consistent basis haha.

BeerBaron
01-28-2011, 09:46 PM
Yeah, the Niners did the same thing with Manny Lawson and Parys Haralson for the past 2 years. They had a coordinator by the name of Greg Manusky who ran his 3-4 ass backwards and seems to think that dropping his backers and rushing 3 was an efficient way to play defense. "Pussyball" is what I call it. The Steelers, Jets, Ravens and Cowboys all have at least 1 premier rusher that can get to the quarterback. They all blitz and blitz often and attack the offense.

False. See pretty much any key defensive play they've had all season, including the pass that set up the Steelers to win the playoff game. Rush 3, get NO pressure, drop everyone else....QB just waits for a hole to open.

Rushing 3 really is "pussyball" as you say. If you have a key defensive play, and the coordinator calls a mad blitz and the defense gives up a big play, the blame goes to him for calling the play. If he only rushes 3 and the defense gives up a big play, he can pass the blame onto the players for not executing.

It is a total pansy move, and the Football Gods usually punish for it...

ElectricEye
01-28-2011, 09:49 PM
There's more vanilla defenses than ever these days in the NFL because everyone is afraid of being beat over the top. It sucks. Thank you Bill Polian.

PossibleCabbage
01-28-2011, 10:32 PM
He could probably play 3-4 DE at 255-260. I don't think that Brett Keisel weighs much more than that and he plays 3-4 DE for the Steelers.

Keisel's listed at 285, and I think that's pretty legit.

255-260 is really very small for a 5-tech. Just fine for a 7-tech though. If Kerrigan is going to play in the 3-4, it's in space.

There's more vanilla defenses than ever these days in the NFL because everyone is afraid of being beat over the top. It sucks. Thank you Bill Polian.

One would hope that the two teams in the superbowl running the most exotic defenses in in modern football (also the #1 and #2 ranked defenses) might help to reverse this trend.

cajuncorey
01-28-2011, 11:45 PM
im going to make a comparision that will make most crap there pants.... and that is to another big ten DE brandon graham, not with regard to size and stature, but with regard to explosiveness, both overachievers, and where people see them ending up. everyone considers both of these kids tweeners and probably 3-4 OLBs but at the end of the day they are true DE's and thats where they should play.

Clarkw267
01-29-2011, 03:01 AM
im going to make a comparision that will make most crap there pants.... and that is to another big ten DE brandon graham, not with regard to size and stature, but with regard to explosiveness, both overachievers, and where people see them ending up. everyone considers both of these kids tweeners and probably 3-4 OLBs but at the end of the day they are true DE's and thats where they should play.

I was thinking more along the lines of Tamba Hali... but I guess he has some similarities to Graham as well.

TACKLE
01-29-2011, 03:28 AM
False. See pretty much any key defensive play they've had all season, including the pass that set up the Steelers to win the playoff game. Rush 3, get NO pressure, drop everyone else....QB just waits for a hole to open.

Uggggh. Don't remind me. :(

At least Mattison is gone. In the second half with a lead, I've never seen a less effective D-Coordinator.

Mr. Goosemahn
01-29-2011, 03:42 AM
Keisel is probably 290-300, not even close to Kerrigan. That being said, Keisel did gain about 20 lbs. After being drafted.

As for Brandon Graham, I don't know. Graham was a Woodley clone, right down to the university. I just don't see that raw strenghth and power in Kerrigan.

TACKLE
01-29-2011, 03:46 AM
Kerigan reminds me of a less athletic version of Clay Matthews.

Caddy
01-29-2011, 03:54 AM
I wouldn't hesitate to put Kerrigan in a 4-3. I'm really pulling for him to fall to the Buccaneers but I'm not holding my breath.

SRogers92
01-29-2011, 05:16 PM
Kerrigan looks a lot like Jared Allen to me ... not just because he's white, but both have the same build, are relentless and are underrated in their athleticism coming out, largerly in part because they are white ... he's not a Kyle Vanden Bosch type of DE(strong, hard worker, average athleticism) - Kerrigan actually seems to be the athlete he seems.

JaxJag_1
01-29-2011, 06:03 PM
There is nothing "tweener" about Kerrigan. He's a 4-3 LDE.

Unbiased
01-29-2011, 06:05 PM
I like the Hali comparison someone made in here.