PDA

View Full Version : Colin Kaepernick: Your Thoughts


edgrenade
01-29-2011, 03:50 AM
There seems to be some varying opinions on him.

NFL Network guys kinda liked him, Scott and Shane didn't...

Does he have any sort of future? He is probably worth the boom/bust in the 4th

Discuss:

FUNBUNCHER
01-29-2011, 04:03 AM
At this point it's all about what's inside CK heart and head, where he's drafted and who his OC and QB coach are.

Physically he has the tools to play in the NFL at a high level.

One thing about today's NFL is that teams seem to be more willing to tailor an offense around what a QB does best, and not constantly put their signal caller
in an adverse situation that doesn't play to their strengths.

I personally like him, and would spend a pick on him anywhere from #28 on down.

But let's watch the Senior Bowl first!!!

akvikefan89
01-29-2011, 04:10 AM
I think 2nd/3rd round. Has a lot of physical tools, but that Pistol offense and his delivery are major issues.

Quailman
01-29-2011, 05:16 AM
His upside is through the roof. People want to knock him and say that his passing delivery and college offense are going to hold him back at the NFL level but I call shenanigans. Does he have a lot to learn and a lot to improve on? Absolutely. But often times rookie QBs with exceptional athleticism come in and just make plays because of how dynamic they are and I believe that Colin could be that type of player early in his career ala Tim Tebow, Mike Vick, Vince Young, Donovan McNabb and other mobile guys. If you put him out there he won't run an efficient offense but he sure as hell will make you some plays IMO with his explosive running and throwing ability and he wouldn't be the first mobile QB to do exactly that.

But he has a lot to learn but he seems like a guy who is good enough between the ears to eventually learn those things and that coupled with his incredibly tempting athleticism will get him a shot at a starting QB spot in the NFL on a team.

RealityCheck
01-29-2011, 07:31 AM
Colin Kaepernick in the 4th, sure. I will laugh 96 times straight if that happens.

Anywhere after #12 overall is a steal for the team that gets Colin.

YoJoeBucsFan
01-29-2011, 08:27 AM
Colin Kaepernick in the 4th, sure. I will laugh 96 times straight if that happens.

Anywhere after #12 overall is a steal for the team that gets Colin.

Except for teams with franchise QB's I suspect....

RealityCheck
01-29-2011, 09:26 AM
Except for teams with franchise QB's I suspect....
Yeah, true.

I really don't know where the topic creator heard he would be available in the 4th.

brasho
01-29-2011, 09:38 AM
I've said it before the Senior Bowl week started and I'll say it yet again. According to those that have been around him, CK has excellent work ethic. I feel tthat, and the ability to actually throw a ball is the most important thing a QB can have. Obviously, great natural talent will allow that player with a great work ethic to be a better player. If you take a look through NFL history, the QBs with the great work ethic are the most successful. Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees... and now look at the difference work ethic has made to Michael Vick. He went from being a unmatched physical talent without a great work ethic (according to his own admission) to a slightly lesser physical talent (than he was) with an improved work ethic and he had by far his best season ever. Consider Ty Detmer and Chad Pennington's work ethics. Both of those guys were among the least physically talented QBs of the past 30 years and yet they both had long careers because they worked so hard at their craft.

I don't understand Scott and Shane's disdain for CK. Obviously CK has tremendous physical tools. He might be the most physically gifted QB (from an NFL standpoint as speed > strength as a runner) to come out in several years, he has an excellent work ethic.. and he's not stupid.. so what's the hang-up? Yeah, he ran the pistol offense in college... and Brees ran the spread, so did Bradford, Freeman, and VY, Rivers ran a lot of spread, McNabb ran some option, so CK ran the pistol, which is basically a more powerful spread.

When comparing CK to other prospects making the jump to the NFL you go back to last season and compare him with Tebow. As far as this comparison goes, CK has better size, a much better arm, better mobility, though his release isn't ideal-it is far better than Tebow's (it isn't a whole lot worse than Philip Rivers's was when he came out). I thought the Broncos and McDaniels jumped the gun a bit on Tebow and could have got him in the early 2nd without any feat of losing him...and as much as we slammed McDaniels for horrible decisions with personnel, this is one that actually didn't look so bad. Tebow put up 23 points or more in each of his starts, won 1 of his 3 games and looked competent while doing it. How did Tebow manage that despite not being a GREAT prospect? Work ethic. Everybody knew that Tebow would work harder than everybody and despite his perceived limitations, he had enough physical ability that he worked hard enough to make it work. And that's what I see with CK... only I don't see nearly as many physical limitations.

I've compared CK to Randall Cunningham when he came out of UNLV in the 80's and I'm sticking to it. Both QBs had very thin builds. Cunningham was 6'4 205 when he came out of school, Kaepernick 6'5 225 though he looks very thin. Both QBs had very strong arms and amazing straight line speed (Cunningham 4.6 to CK's 4.5). Both QBs had hitches in their deliveries. Cunningham's release resembled a whip... CK drops the ball down as low as his solar plexus before bringing it back up to throw. As we all know, Cunningham had an excellent career, just like I think CK can as well.

Randall Cunningham was drafted #37 overall in the 85 draft... and that's where I expect CK to be drafted, give or take 10-15 spots down or up. I expect him to be gone between picks 24-50.

I watched the Senior Bowl practices and though NFLN had the worst coverage possible, I saw, on average, of 4 throws from Kaepernick per day... and throws I saw were there, some spectacular, some were screens, dump-offs, etc. Regardless of what happened on the other 46 throws CK had each day, he really brung the wow factor on several of the the throws I saw and based on that, NFL GMs will be more apt to take a chance on him because of it... especially considering how well he moves his feet. People always say that a good TE... or a running game, are a young QB's best friend... well, there's one more... his feet. Young QBs that can move their feet and put pressure on a defense that way as well as keeping the chains moving and buy time for better throws have shown to really help a young QB until that QB gets a hang of the offensive system.

From a physical comparison standpoint to other similar type QBs in the past 20 years, CK is as good or better physically than Tebow, Kordell Stewart, Vince Young (better arm, speed, not a mental patient), Quncy Carter, Pat White, Tavaris Jackson, Jason Campbell, Shaun King, and even Steve McNair (better size, speed, and far better level of competition) and all of these guys were taken in either rounds 1 or 2. Colt McCoy was a 3rd rounder with a similar style but had ZERO abilities close to be on par with CK.

Obviously, many of these guys didn't make it in the NFL and only McNair became a star... but if you compare the success ratio of these QBs with all other 1st and 2nd round QBs taken in the last 20 years you'll see similar results. And this isn't even including one QB, omiitted because he has the feet of an OG, Byron Leftwich (comparable arm strength, way better release, and 1000X better feet) which I wanted to include because people continually ant to harp on CK's less than ideal throwing motion... which is still way better than Tebow, Leftwich, and on par with VY's and Philip River's.

Whether you really like CK, or like Scott and Shane-you hate him... let's face it, when you state that somebody will NEVER start in the NFL and you predict nothing but doom and gloom, you can't help but to root against a guy if for no other reason than to be right, so you guys hate him, you can't deny his physical talent. Considering the NFL drafts more based on potential than production (and CK has plenty of both), there is no denying his potential. There is also the great work ethic... and he certainly doesn't seem stupid, CK should go in the 1st 2 rounds.

One thing I will agree with Shane and Scott on is that CK should not be thrust immediately into a starting role. As a matter of fact, I would prefer to see him brought along the way Cunningham or Steve McNair were, by inserting them in for a series, putting them in for certain plays (wlidcat-type) and let him get his feet wet that way.

This guy has way too much talent for anybody to immediately announce he will NEVER make it in the NFL. Considering far less talented, experienced, and esteemed (by others) QBs like Tom Brady, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Rich Gannon (yes, he was drafted-but as a DB and then was gotten rid of when he declared he only wanted to play QB!), Jake Delhomme, David Garrard, and numerous others were said to have no shot at being a starting QB in the NFL, I think it is very premature to declare a player that has tremendous gifts, a strong work ethic, outstanding production, and good character to not have a chance.

Keep it real
01-29-2011, 10:38 AM
Very well said Brasho. According to Nevada's coach, Chris Ault, Kaepernick is a very hard worker and the "most competitive player I've ever coached." This coming from a hall of fame coach is a pretty impressive statement. The kid by all accounts has great character, and graduated with a business degree. Can't find anything to fault except the throwing motion, and that is being over played. If the ball gets there with accuracy and zip that carries a lot more weight than a "pretty" throwing motion.

MidwayMonster31
01-29-2011, 10:59 AM
I think somebody trades up into the first round for him. I'll watch the game tomorrow and see what he's got, since I have only been able to take people's words for it. I do expect him to keep moving up. He should have a solid combine in the workouts and the throws. He might have to sit for some time to get used to the speed of the NFL, but that happens for everyone. With the pistol offense, he at least has some understanding for how to read a defense and dropback. He improved between last year and this year and he should continue to improve with his work ethic, he also has the leadership you look for in a quarterback. There are plenty of QB starved teams out there and one of them will have to take a chance with him.

SF Dolphin Fan
01-29-2011, 11:04 AM
His upside is through the roof. People want to knock him and say that his passing delivery and college offense are going to hold him back at the NFL level but I call shenanigans. Does he have a lot to learn and a lot to improve on? Absolutely. But often times rookie QBs with exceptional athleticism come in and just make plays because of how dynamic they are and I believe that Colin could be that type of player early in his career ala Tim Tebow, Mike Vick, Vince Young, Donovan McNabb and other mobile guys. If you put him out there he won't run an efficient offense but he sure as hell will make you some plays IMO with his explosive running and throwing ability and he wouldn't be the first mobile QB to do exactly that.

But he has a lot to learn but he seems like a guy who is good enough between the ears to eventually learn those things and that coupled with his incredibly tempting athleticism will get him a shot at a starting QB spot in the NFL on a team.I agree. You tailor an offense around this kid that lets him do what he does best. I like him as a prospect.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
01-29-2011, 11:11 AM
I like this player more than I do of Jake locker. He will be a fast version of Freeman the bucks qb.

bucfan12
01-29-2011, 12:32 PM
This guy will be the best QB out of this class. Mark it down.

Iamcanadian
01-29-2011, 01:41 PM
If the league goes to 18 games and the pre season is significantly reduced, developing a QB could become very difficult making drafting one high even a higher priority. This guy is a project but with his arm and other assets, he should go reasonably high, maybe round 2/3 but likely round 4/5.
Can he be developed in the new 18 game NFL, we'll just have to see because he'll never get much of an opportunity in pre season to play.

bucfan12
01-29-2011, 01:46 PM
If the league goes to 18 games and the pre season is significantly reduced, developing a QB could become very difficult making drafting one high even a higher priority. This guy is a project but with his arm and other assets, he should go reasonably high, maybe round 2/3 but likely round 4/5.
Can he be developed in the new 18 game NFL, we'll just have to see because he'll never get much of an opportunity in pre season to play.

I agree. 18 games would be terrible, especially for young players trying to make football teams.

CaliPanthers420
01-29-2011, 03:00 PM
I've said it before the Senior Bowl week started and I'll say it yet again. According to those that have been around him, CK has excellent work ethic. I feel tthat, and the ability to actually throw a ball is the most important thing a QB can have. Obviously, great natural talent will allow that player with a great work ethic to be a better player. If you take a look through NFL history, the QBs with the great work ethic are the most successful. Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees... and now look at the difference work ethic has made to Michael Vick. He went from being a unmatched physical talent without a great work ethic (according to his own admission) to a slightly lesser physical talent (than he was) with an improved work ethic and he had by far his best season ever. Consider Ty Detmer and Chad Pennington's work ethics. Both of those guys were among the least physically talented QBs of the past 30 years and yet they both had long careers because they worked so hard at their craft.

I don't understand Scott and Shane's disdain for CK. Obviously CK has tremendous physical tools. He might be the most physically gifted QB (from an NFL standpoint as speed > strength as a runner) to come out in several years, he has an excellent work ethic.. and he's not stupid.. so what's the hang-up? Yeah, he ran the pistol offense in college... and Brees ran the spread, so did Bradford, Freeman, and VY, Rivers ran a lot of spread, McNabb ran some option, so CK ran the pistol, which is basically a more powerful spread.

When comparing CK to other prospects making the jump to the NFL you go back to last season and compare him with Tebow. As far as this comparison goes, CK has better size, a much better arm, better mobility, though his release isn't ideal-it is far better than Tebow's (it isn't a whole lot worse than Philip Rivers's was when he came out). I thought the Broncos and McDaniels jumped the gun a bit on Tebow and could have got him in the early 2nd without any feat of losing him...and as much as we slammed McDaniels for horrible decisions with personnel, this is one that actually didn't look so bad. Tebow put up 23 points or more in each of his starts, won 1 of his 3 games and looked competent while doing it. How did Tebow manage that despite not being a GREAT prospect? Work ethic. Everybody knew that Tebow would work harder than everybody and despite his perceived limitations, he had enough physical ability that he worked hard enough to make it work. And that's what I see with CK... only I don't see nearly as many physical limitations.

I've compared CK to Randall Cunningham when he came out of UNLV in the 80's and I'm sticking to it. Both QBs had very thin builds. Cunningham was 6'4 205 when he came out of school, Kaepernick 6'5 225 though he looks very thin. Both QBs had very strong arms and amazing straight line speed (Cunningham 4.6 to CK's 4.5). Both QBs had hitches in their deliveries. Cunningham's release resembled a whip... CK drops the ball down as low as his solar plexus before bringing it back up to throw. As we all know, Cunningham had an excellent career, just like I think CK can as well.

Randall Cunningham was drafted #37 overall in the 85 draft... and that's where I expect CK to be drafted, give or take 10-15 spots down or up. I expect him to be gone between picks 24-50.

I watched the Senior Bowl practices and though NFLN had the worst coverage possible, I saw, on average, of 4 throws from Kaepernick per day... and throws I saw were there, some spectacular, some were screens, dump-offs, etc. Regardless of what happened on the other 46 throws CK had each day, he really brung the wow factor on several of the the throws I saw and based on that, NFL GMs will be more apt to take a chance on him because of it... especially considering how well he moves his feet. People always say that a good TE... or a running game, are a young QB's best friend... well, there's one more... his feet. Young QBs that can move their feet and put pressure on a defense that way as well as keeping the chains moving and buy time for better throws have shown to really help a young QB until that QB gets a hang of the offensive system.

From a physical comparison standpoint to other similar type QBs in the past 20 years, CK is as good or better physically than Tebow, Kordell Stewart, Vince Young (better arm, speed, not a mental patient), Quncy Carter, Pat White, Tavaris Jackson, Jason Campbell, Shaun King, and even Steve McNair (better size, speed, and far better level of competition) and all of these guys were taken in either rounds 1 or 2. Colt McCoy was a 3rd rounder with a similar style but had ZERO abilities close to be on par with CK.

Obviously, many of these guys didn't make it in the NFL and only McNair became a star... but if you compare the success ratio of these QBs with all other 1st and 2nd round QBs taken in the last 20 years you'll see similar results. And this isn't even including one QB, omiitted because he has the feet of an OG, Byron Leftwich (comparable arm strength, way better release, and 1000X better feet) which I wanted to include because people continually ant to harp on CK's less than ideal throwing motion... which is still way better than Tebow, Leftwich, and on par with VY's and Philip River's.

Whether you really like CK, or like Scott and Shane-you hate him... let's face it, when you state that somebody will NEVER start in the NFL and you predict nothing but doom and gloom, you can't help but to root against a guy if for no other reason than to be right, so you guys hate him, you can't deny his physical talent. Considering the NFL drafts more based on potential than production (and CK has plenty of both), there is no denying his potential. There is also the great work ethic... and he certainly doesn't seem stupid, CK should go in the 1st 2 rounds.

One thing I will agree with Shane and Scott on is that CK should not be thrust immediately into a starting role. As a matter of fact, I would prefer to see him brought along the way Cunningham or Steve McNair were, by inserting them in for a series, putting them in for certain plays (wlidcat-type) and let him get his feet wet that way.

This guy has way too much talent for anybody to immediately announce he will NEVER make it in the NFL. Considering far less talented, experienced, and esteemed (by others) QBs like Tom Brady, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Rich Gannon (yes, he was drafted-but as a DB and then was gotten rid of when he declared he only wanted to play QB!), Jake Delhomme, David Garrard, and numerous others were said to have no shot at being a starting QB in the NFL, I think it is very premature to declare a player that has tremendous gifts, a strong work ethic, outstanding production, and good character to not have a chance.




Great post.

Colin Kaepernick is a very intriguing prospect. I think he will become a good starter in the league but do feel he needs time to develop (2 years) but use him in a few packages.

I would love him as a finished prospect on the Panthers but doubt they go in that direction.

I think he would fit great on the Jaguars where he can backup Garrad for a few years, then take over.

PossibleCabbage
01-29-2011, 03:25 PM
He's very similar to Tebow as a prospect actually, both are great Athletes (Tebow's thicker while Kaepernick's faster), both are extremely coachable, and both have sort of goofy passing mechanics including long looping motions. The main difference as I see it is that Nevada is not Florida and the Mountain West is not the SEC.

So if you think Tebow can be an NFL QB, there's no reason to think that Kaepernick can't be. Kaepernick won't be drafted nearly as high though, since the hype on Tebow was good for at least a round.

Halsey
01-29-2011, 07:46 PM
He's the chic athletic, non-first round QB of the Draft. He fills the role guys like Pat White and Josh Johnson have in the past. Fans who are afraid of taking QBs with high picks love guys like this.

87Canes
01-30-2011, 01:11 AM
Every QB in the Senior Bowl will be drafted 2nd round or higher. Maybe somebody takes a chance on Locker but all the other QBs were just as average EXCEPT for Ponder.

He's the one that actually looked like a real QB today.

CK does have all the intangibles like work ethic, size, arm strength but I just don't see him as a franchise NFL QB for the following 2 reasons:

Struggles with a pocket and his release is hideous. Tim Tebow shouldn't have been drafted in rd 1 and thats why McDy isn't an NFL HC anymore.

I hate the Gators but I would take Tebow before CK 1000 years straight.

brasho
01-30-2011, 07:15 AM
I like this player more than I do of Jake locker. He will be a fast version of Freeman the bucks qb.

Yes, Milwaukee will go far with him, Go Bucks!

brasho
01-30-2011, 07:43 AM
Every QB in the Senior Bowl will be drafted 2nd round or higher. Maybe somebody takes a chance on Locker but all the other QBs were just as average EXCEPT for Ponder.

He's the one that actually looked like a real QB today.

CK does have all the intangibles like work ethic, size, arm strength but I just don't see him as a franchise NFL QB for the following 2 reasons:

Struggles with a pocket and his release is hideous. Tim Tebow shouldn't have been drafted in rd 1 and thats why McDy isn't an NFL HC anymore.

I hate the Gators but I would take Tebow before CK 1000 years straight.

Again showing your lack of football acumen? So you give CK credit for work ethic, size, and arm strength but knock him for a throwing motion that isn't any worse than Philip Rivers' was coming out of college? He had ZERO struggles in the pocket considering how poorly the North's OL routinedly blocked.

By my count CK threw 5 incompletions. He had 3 drops (including the beautiful seam he threw to TE McNeil that bounced off his hands for an INT), 1 throwaway, and 1 pass that was off the mark when Phill Taylor got nearly instant penetration and was in his face as he threw it.

When comparing Ponder and Kaeprnick's games, there really is no comparison. CK threw his outs with plenty of zip and right on target, Ponder's got there on target but were seriously lacking steam. Because of the rules of this game (only cover 3, or man off) the outs HAD to be there, I could have completed outs and I can't throw a ball more than 40 yards. Kapernick had several throws towards the hashes that traveled 20 yards or more that were dead on the money on a line. Ponder had one such throw (the TD to Kerley) in which he put a little oomph into it... but the absolute worst throw of the game?

The worst throw of the game happened to be the long completion Ponder through to Leonard Hankerson. Hankerson ran a go and Ponder through the ball nearly straight up in the air. Just the fact that Ponder through the ball when Hankerson had the DB at a deeper depth than he was and with a safety over the top was a poor decision. Then the trajectory of the throw, and the fact that it wsa underthrown by 10 yards made a bad decision worse. Yes, it turned out to be a long completion to Hankerson, but that was because of a great adjustment by the receiver and the fact that a LB couldn't get back on time nor the safety up in time. The pass should have been picked off, it was terrible.

You can't say the same thing about CK. On his actual INT, CK had a heavy rush from the edge and he stepped up in the pocket (the way a QB is supposed to and ran towards the line, started to run to his left when he got near the line, he opened up his shoulders (while running to his left) and threw a laser about 20 yards down the field that hit TE Mike McNeil in stride but it bounced off his hands for a pick. That was a fantastic play, just like when CK extended the play in his final play and threw a ball that was dropped near the sideline by Kendall Hunter.

Overall, CK had a fantastic game. I don't know what his final statline was, I just know he had the 3 inexcusable drops, 1 throwaway, and 1 pass of the mark... and about 3 more throws that made me say wow. Ponder, on the hand, had me say wow when he through that awful eephus pitch to Hankerson.

Also, keep in mind about Ponder, he played the entire 2nd half and was able to get more reps, get more into a rhythm than anybody on the field. This is not to say that Ponder didn't do some things very well... but I think that given his physical limitations, any team that drafts Ponder is most likely thinking of him as a future backup, while anybody drafting CK is thinking of a possible franchise QB after a year+ of development and in the meantime, a possible wildcat-type of weapon.


As for the Tebow comments-you said you would take Tebow over CK everytime. This despite the fact that CK has far better size, a far better arm, far better speed, far better release (which you cited as your reason for not liking him), and a far better Senior Bowl week and game.

To start things off, you said all the QBs in the Senior Bowl would go in round 2 or higher... now I didn't have to respond to anything you said because you lost all credibility at that point and should have served as a warning to me and other readers to the oncoming spectacle of your car accident of a post... but what can I say... I can't resist. You think that ALL QBs in the Senior Bowl will be 2nd round picks or higher? WOW!

Andy Dalton? Ricky Stanzi? Greg McElroy? OMG? At this point, even Ponder looks like a longshot to make round 2. Now, maybe if the league had as many QB needy teams as it does now and DIDN'T have likely 1st round picks like Newton, Mallett, Gabbert, and Locker... but you're thinking that along with those 4 QBs likely to be taken in round 1, that the other 5 QBs will be taken before round 3 as well? I'm not sure, but that might be a record... 9 QBs taken in the first 2 rounds. You're really gonna have a hard sell with that one with even the most casual fan.

Chidi29
01-30-2011, 09:01 AM
This is the "scouting report" I've compiled on Kapernick. I think I'm warming up to the guy because his accuracy is impressive but I'm not his biggest fan.

The Good
- Height isn't a problem (6'4 1/2)
- Rocket arm, perhaps the best in his class
- Accurate overall on all types of passes
- Throws a very catchable ball
- Good internal clock, doesn't take a lot of uneeded sacks
- Mobile, will flash an impressive second gear in the open field
- Keeps eyes downfield while on move
- Clutch
- Leader, winner
- Ultra-productive career both passing and running
- A strong senior year
- Good coaching
- Durable
The Bad
- "Gumby" body, needs to fill out his frame
- Struggles in the red zone, turnover prone
- Will stare down receivers, force some throws
- Will throw across his body
- Bit of a windup
- Tends to hold the ball away from his body when running, prone to fumbling
- May be a little too quick to hit checkdown, doesn't always go through progressions
- Pistol offense
Other
- Four year starter, 50 games
- Three straight years of 2000 yards passing, 1000 yards rushing, first to ever do so
- 140 career touchdowns passing and rushing
- Just under 14000 yards ot total offense
- Defeated Bosie St to eliminate them from championship contention
- Coached by ultra-experienced coach Chris Ault
- Throws a 90+ mph fastball, drafted by Cubs in 43rd round
Final Word
Very interesting skillset coupled with one of the most productive careers for any college QB. Has the physical tools but the mental side is suspect.
Games Watched
at Hawaii (half), at Idaho (half), at Fresno St, vs Bosie St, vs Boston College

Rabscuttle
01-30-2011, 10:02 AM
There are going to be a few coaches that catch on early and use parts or maybe entireties of some regular season games to develop their quarterbacks if the season goes to 18 games. There are going to be some throwaway games that can be used for this purpose while starters are rested.

Guys like Kaepernick could really do well getting the playing time they need in real game situations. I haven't watched him much because of the programming I get, but he has a lot to work with. Moreso than the second teir of prospects.

Now if Ponder had his arm strength...

87Canes
01-30-2011, 11:55 AM
Again showing your lack of football acumen? So you give CK credit for work ethic, size, and arm strength but knock him for a throwing motion that isn't any worse than Philip Rivers' was coming out of college? He had ZERO struggles in the pocket considering how poorly the North's OL routinedly blocked.

By my count CK threw 5 incompletions. He had 3 drops (including the beautiful seam he threw to TE McNeil that bounced off his hands for an INT), 1 throwaway, and 1 pass that was off the mark when Phill Taylor got nearly instant penetration and was in his face as he threw it.

When comparing Ponder and Kaeprnick's games, there really is no comparison. CK threw his outs with plenty of zip and right on target, Ponder's got there on target but were seriously lacking steam. Because of the rules of this game (only cover 3, or man off) the outs HAD to be there, I could have completed outs and I can't throw a ball more than 40 yards. Kapernick had several throws towards the hashes that traveled 20 yards or more that were dead on the money on a line. Ponder had one such throw (the TD to Kerley) in which he put a little oomph into it... but the absolute worst throw of the game?

The worst throw of the game happened to be the long completion Ponder through to Leonard Hankerson. Hankerson ran a go and Ponder through the ball nearly straight up in the air. Just the fact that Ponder through the ball when Hankerson had the DB at a deeper depth than he was and with a safety over the top was a poor decision. Then the trajectory of the throw, and the fact that it wsa underthrown by 10 yards made a bad decision worse. Yes, it turned out to be a long completion to Hankerson, but that was because of a great adjustment by the receiver and the fact that a LB couldn't get back on time nor the safety up in time. The pass should have been picked off, it was terrible.

You can't say the same thing about CK. On his actual INT, CK had a heavy rush from the edge and he stepped up in the pocket (the way a QB is supposed to and ran towards the line, started to run to his left when he got near the line, he opened up his shoulders (while running to his left) and threw a laser about 20 yards down the field that hit TE Mike McNeil in stride but it bounced off his hands for a pick. That was a fantastic play, just like when CK extended the play in his final play and threw a ball that was dropped near the sideline by Kendall Hunter.

Overall, CK had a fantastic game. I don't know what his final statline was, I just know he had the 3 inexcusable drops, 1 throwaway, and 1 pass of the mark... and about 3 more throws that made me say wow. Ponder, on the hand, had me say wow when he through that awful eephus pitch to Hankerson.

Also, keep in mind about Ponder, he played the entire 2nd half and was able to get more reps, get more into a rhythm than anybody on the field. This is not to say that Ponder didn't do some things very well... but I think that given his physical limitations, any team that drafts Ponder is most likely thinking of him as a future backup, while anybody drafting CK is thinking of a possible franchise QB after a year+ of development and in the meantime, a possible wildcat-type of weapon.


As for the Tebow comments-you said you would take Tebow over CK everytime. This despite the fact that CK has far better size, a far better arm, far better speed, far better release (which you cited as your reason for not liking him), and a far better Senior Bowl week and game.

To start things off, you said all the QBs in the Senior Bowl would go in round 2 or higher... now I didn't have to respond to anything you said because you lost all credibility at that point and should have served as a warning to me and other readers to the oncoming spectacle of your car accident of a post... but what can I say... I can't resist. You think that ALL QBs in the Senior Bowl will be 2nd round picks or higher? WOW!

Andy Dalton? Ricky Stanzi? Greg McElroy? OMG? At this point, even Ponder looks like a longshot to make round 2. Now, maybe if the league had as many QB needy teams as it does now and DIDN'T have likely 1st round picks like Newton, Mallett, Gabbert, and Locker... but you're thinking that along with those 4 QBs likely to be taken in round 1, that the other 5 QBs will be taken before round 3 as well? I'm not sure, but that might be a record... 9 QBs taken in the first 2 rounds. You're really gonna have a hard sell with that one with even the most casual fan.

The only completions he made were with no pressure. When the pocket got tight on him he struggled.

Your obession with CK is hideous. Dude is not that good...you waste too much time breaking down his game when it's very simple. Rivers release is still awkward and was coming out of NCSU but his throwing motion isn't that far off from your average QB. He is a stronger Bernie Kosar (high, off the side of the head) type throwing motion but still has a very quick release.

And regarding all Senior Bowl QBs being a 2nd rd pick or higher, of course your thinking would lead you to say that Dalton, Stanzi, McElroy, Ponder would be in the 2nd rd. I thought you'd have enough sense to place those guys in the "HIGHER" part of my statement and not the 2nd rd portion of it. Looks like I need to keep it much more simple for you as well...

I really don't know what's your obession with Colin is but it's all going to come to an end in April when he's taken like in rd 3 or something.

I've never even gotten your actual prediction on when he will be drafted. You defend your post like he's going to be the 1st QB taken but I'm going to assume you think he'll be drafted as a low rd 1 right?

87Canes
01-30-2011, 12:10 PM
Brasho, he's a faster version of Tebow with a little bit better throwing motion and a much stronger arm.

He's Vince Young 2.0 (with a tad bit better throwing motion and stronger arm)- What helped VY is playing at Texas vs top notch competition and winning the Rose Bowl.

VY should have never been a 1st rd pick and that's obvious several years later.

K.I.S.S

iowatreat54
01-30-2011, 12:22 PM
CK's pick didn't hit the WR in stride. It hit him in the hands, yes, but it was high and slightly behind. The WR had to jump to even have it hit his hands, and it was to his back shoulder where the DB was.

Still should have been caught, but let's not try and make it out like it was a perfect pass by CK.

87Canes
01-30-2011, 12:25 PM
CK's pick didn't hit the WR in stride. It hit him in the hands, yes, but it was high and slightly behind. The WR had to jump to even have it hit his hands, and it was to his back shoulder where the DB was.

Still should have been caught, but let's not try and make it out like it was a perfect pass by CK.

Thank you! The pic was both CK and the receivers fault.

PhinsRock
01-30-2011, 12:51 PM
Kaepernick's release is a little slow, and he needs to learn how to become a 5 step, drop back passer in the NFL. But he does have all the physical tools, and the thing I love about him is that when he gets outside the pocket to avoid the rush, he's still looking to throw (Aaron Rodgers-like).

I like the arm strength, accuracy, poise, pocket presence and athleticism. There are concerns, but I like him a lot more today than I did a week ago.

He's the number 2 QB on my board, and there really isn't anybody outside of him and Gabbert that I'd spend more than a 4th round pick on.

brasho
01-30-2011, 04:52 PM
The only completions he made were with no pressure. When the pocket got tight on him he struggled.

Your obession with CK is hideous. Dude is not that good...you waste too much time breaking down his game when it's very simple. Rivers release is still awkward and was coming out of NCSU but his throwing motion isn't that far off from your average QB. He is a stronger Bernie Kosar (high, off the side of the head) type throwing motion but still has a very quick release.

And regarding all Senior Bowl QBs being a 2nd rd pick or higher, of course your thinking would lead you to say that Dalton, Stanzi, McElroy, Ponder would be in the 2nd rd. I thought you'd have enough sense to place those guys in the "HIGHER" part of my statement and not the 2nd rd portion of it. Looks like I need to keep it much more simple for you as well...

I really don't know what's your obession with Colin is but it's all going to come to an end in April when he's taken like in rd 3 or something.

I've never even gotten your actual prediction on when he will be drafted. You defend your post like he's going to be the 1st QB taken but I'm going to assume you think he'll be drafted as a low rd 1 right?

You've never gotten my actual prediction of where CK would be drafted? I've only stated numerous times that he would go top 64 and stated as recently as yesterday that I expect him to fall somewhere close to where his NFL comparable did (Randall Cunningham #37) give or take 10-15 spots.

What is my obsession with CK? Nothing, I just see that he clearly has a ton of talent and state it as such only to see people come back with unintelligible reasons why he won't be successful despite the fact that I've given far more evidence and far more compelling arguments as to why he will be a success. Facts are facts, great arm, great mobility, great size, great work ethic, bad (but not as bad as former first rounders Leftwich and Tebow) release.



BTW, when the pressure got tight on CK he struggled? He had 337 lb Phil Taylor in his face on the one bad throw he made and the other times he got pressure, he escaped and made a nice throw (like when he stepped up underneath Brooks Reed and delivered a laser beam downfield).

brasho
01-30-2011, 04:56 PM
Brasho, he's a faster version of Tebow with a little bit better throwing motion and a much stronger arm.

He's Vince Young 2.0 (with a tad bit better throwing motion and stronger arm)- What helped VY is playing at Texas vs top notch competition and winning the Rose Bowl.

VY should have never been a 1st rd pick and that's obvious several years later.

K.I.S.S

Right, telling me to keep it simple and then calling me stupid... classy. Vince Young as a player has been excellent in case you've been in outerspace the past few years, it's Vince Young the person and teammate is where he is lacking.... besides that, hindsight is 20/20 my friend. By everybody with a brain's account at that time, VY should have been a 1st round pick.... if teams could redraft from that year, he would still be a 1st round pick, his onfield production has proven that much.

I can guarantee you CK doesn't score a 5 on his Wonderlic nor will he have a nervous breakdown and hissy fits the way VY has been know to do. VY has been a baby since losing the Heisman to Reggie Bush. All CK has done is go out and state that he needs to prove himself and then he has done that.

brasho
01-30-2011, 04:58 PM
Thank you! The pic was both CK and the receivers fault.

Right, the TE (Mike McNeil) had the ball hit both hands, he didn't jump, he reached up and handed it to the defense. The ball was thrown 20 yards downfield and hit the TE slightly above head level on both hands... sorry, that's the receiver's fault everytime and everyday of the week.

RaiderNation
01-30-2011, 05:06 PM
I think he goes in the mid to late 2nd, maybe higher if he continues to look better at the combine

AntoinCD
01-30-2011, 05:18 PM
I havent got caught too much up in the Kaepernick talk because I hadn't seen enough of him. But after seeing more through watching highlights of practices and the game at the senior bowl, and reading some reports on him Im worried about him as a prospect. QB is the one position where it is more about technique and smarts than anything else. As an athlete he looks the part. Big, tall guy with a very strong arm. But his throwing motion is elongated and I don't like his footwork in the pocket and I think he tries to run too often.Im not ruling him out to be successful in the NFL but any team that drafts him higher than the third and expects him to be the starter early will be disappointed.

JPP90
01-30-2011, 09:41 PM
I have to lol at the love Kaepernick is getting on here. I really don't see it. If you think Colin Kaepernick is a better QB prospect than Jake Locker...PM me. I've got some gold I'm trying to sell.

SRogers92
01-30-2011, 09:49 PM
CP is a 3rd Round prospect at this point ... I've seen some people say he's a late 1st Rounder which is not likely at all and for good reason ...

JPP90
01-30-2011, 09:53 PM
CP is a 3rd Round prospect at this point ... I've seen some people say he's a late 1st Rounder which is not likely at all and for good reason ...

At the end of the day I think Dalton will even go ahead of him. Its a drop-back passer league and Kaepernick isn't a drop-back passer, and his delivery is really going to bother people too.

niel89
01-30-2011, 10:13 PM
I like Kaepernick as a guy that can maybe develop into a player down the road, but 1st round talk is crazy. They guy might creep into the 3rd.

I don't buy the Tebow comparison also. Tebow also played top competition and was a proven leader. I'm not saying that CK isn't but Tebow was a exemplary player in that regard.

descendency
01-30-2011, 10:26 PM
CP is a 3rd Round prospect at this point ... I've seen some people say he's a late 1st Rounder which is not likely at all and for good reason ...

He's too accurate? Too hard working? Too smart? He's a way more polished product than CK. Way more. Sure, he struggles with deep accuracy. However, CP is a prototypical WCO QB.

PossibleCabbage
01-30-2011, 10:28 PM
I don't buy the Tebow comparison also. Tebow also played top competition and was a proven leader. I'm not saying that CK isn't but Tebow was a exemplary player in that regard.

So are you insinuating that a guy can't be a proven leader if he doesn't play in the SEC? He's a four year starter and by everybody's accounts he legitimately loves football as much as anybody and is an extremely affable and charismatic young man.

The level of competition thing is absolutely true, but I firmly believe that Kaepernick has every bit as much of a chance to succeed in the NFL as Tebow. But in the interest of full disclosure, I never would have drafted Tebow in the first round either.

FUNBUNCHER
01-30-2011, 11:54 PM
To be honest, if you break them down physically and how they play the game, there's not much difference between CK and Newton as QBs, and I say that as a compliment to both, ( guys I expect to eventually get it done in a big way at the next level).

brasho
01-31-2011, 05:58 AM
At the end of the day I think Dalton will even go ahead of him. Its a drop-back passer league and Kaepernick isn't a drop-back passer, and his delivery is really going to bother people too.

Yes, the league is going more now to the dropback passers...that's why the Bradys and Mannings are dinosaurs at this point (they are great but they don't move their feet). Considering the Jets shutdown both in the playoffs and lost to the one mobile guy, OCs will be looking for guys that can move their feet even more. I guess that's why the 2 starting QBs in the Super Bowl were considered dropback passers, right?

You're wrong, teams want QBs that can move their feet, throw on the run. And if history has proven one thing, it's that young QBs that can move around have more success early than the ones that don't.

So if CK goes 2nd round, and you think Andy Dalton goes before him.... you're thinking Dalton is a 1st rounder? Based on what? His ability to manage a game? He doesn't have the tools a team would want to spend a reasonably high pick on him.

brasho
01-31-2011, 06:04 AM
I like Kaepernick as a guy that can maybe develop into a player down the road, but 1st round talk is crazy. They guy might creep into the 3rd.

I don't buy the Tebow comparison also. Tebow also played top competition and was a proven leader. I'm not saying that CK isn't but Tebow was a exemplary player in that regard.

Right, and playing the top level of competition is the most important attribute in a QB prospect. That's why guys like Roethlisberger, Flacco, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, and Matt Cassell (didn't play ANY competition in college because he never started a game) suck and always will while guys like Ryan Leaf, Ken Dorsey, Troy Smith, Tim Couch, JaMarcus Russell, Chris Leak, Quincy Carter, Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, and Matt Leinart are the best. Level of competition is a tired and pointless argument. 30% of Super Bowl QBs played in what is considered lesser conferences or divisions of football. If anything history has proven, is that if a guy can play football against lower competition and can get himself in the NFL, he has a higher percentage chance of success compared to the ones from the major conferences (percentage wise).

brasho
01-31-2011, 06:08 AM
There has only been 52 QBs to start Super Bowls, of the ones I listed, all played at schools as small (football-wise) or smaller than Nevada... and there were 15 QBs listed.... so that means nearly 30% of all SB QBs were from schools smaller than Nevada.... I think the "small-school" argument can be laid to rest once and for all.

Kurt Warner, Northern Iowa

Phil Simms, Morehouse

Doug Williams, Grambling

Roetthlisberger's got two, maybe three from Miami, OH

Roger Staubach, Navy

Terry Bradshaw, tiny little Louisiana Tech

Jim McMahon, BYU

Steve Young, BYU

Brett Favre, Southern Miss

Which one of these schools was a football factory?

then there were some Super Bowl losers:

Steve McNair was 2 yards from a win, Alcorn St.

Jake Delhomme Louisiana Lafayette

Ron Jaworski, Youngstown St.

Rich Gannon, Delaware

Stan Humphries, NE Louisiana

Ken Anderson, Augustana


Can we lay the small-school nonsense to rest once and for all?

SKim172
01-31-2011, 06:33 AM
I think the Tebow comparison is apt, because Tebow had no business going in the first round. McDaniels was an idiot and I've yet to meet a Broncos fan who wouldn't agree.

One thing about Kaepernick - he'll have to make his money as a passer and nothing else. His speed is pure straight-line speed - he's not actually particularly agile and seems a little tight-hipped. Takes some time getting up to full speed and doesn't seem to move easily from sideline to sideline. Not a Mike Vick by any means.

SolidGold
01-31-2011, 08:03 AM
I think the buzz Kaepernick generated at the senior bowl has made him a second round pick. It will be interesting to see how he performs at the combine.

RealityCheck
01-31-2011, 08:53 AM
I like Kaepernick as a guy that can maybe develop into a player down the road, but 1st round talk is crazy. They guy might creep into the 3rd.
Crazy? So the Jake Locker 1st round talk is normal, yet the CK 1st round talk is crazy?

87Canes
01-31-2011, 05:31 PM
There has only been 52 QBs to start Super Bowls, of the ones I listed, all played at schools as small (football-wise) or smaller than Nevada... and there were 15 QBs listed.... so that means nearly 30% of all SB QBs were from schools smaller than Nevada.... I think the "small-school" argument can be laid to rest once and for all.

Kurt Warner, Northern Iowa

Phil Simms, Morehouse

Doug Williams, Grambling

Roetthlisberger's got two, maybe three from Miami, OH

Roger Staubach, Navy

Terry Bradshaw, tiny little Louisiana Tech

Jim McMahon, BYU

Steve Young, BYU

Brett Favre, Southern Miss

Which one of these schools was a football factory?

then there were some Super Bowl losers:

Steve McNair was 2 yards from a win, Alcorn St.

Jake Delhomme Louisiana Lafayette

Ron Jaworski, Youngstown St.

Rich Gannon, Delaware

Stan Humphries, NE Louisiana

Ken Anderson, Augustana


Can we lay the small-school nonsense to rest once and for all?



30%<70% by the way - We all know that you think the small school QB can make it in the NFL and I'm sure 90% of us agree that not every big school QB will produce in the NFL. There's too many variables to really put a finger on what makes a college QB successful in the NFL.

It's a game of adjustments and as QBs are I guess becoming more and more "out of the pocket" throwers, defenses will then adapt to those kind of QBs as well.

Aside from Rodgers, Vick, Big Ben and Sanchez, who else can you say are MOBILE QBs and not your typical "pocket passer"?

The QB position is still a pocket passers game, the mobile QB label just adds a dimension. Just like a RB than never fumbles and can catch the ball out of the backfield as well.

brasho
01-31-2011, 06:06 PM
I think the Tebow comparison is apt, because Tebow had no business going in the first round. McDaniels was an idiot and I've yet to meet a Broncos fan who wouldn't agree.

One thing about Kaepernick - he'll have to make his money as a passer and nothing else. His speed is pure straight-line speed - he's not actually particularly agile and seems a little tight-hipped. Takes some time getting up to full speed and doesn't seem to move easily from sideline to sideline. Not a Mike Vick by any means.

Straightline speed can be a great thing for a QB, if you recall, the guy I compare CK to constantly had a ton of straightline speed, the guy otherwise known at one point in his career as "The Ultimate Weapon", Randall Cunningham.

brasho
01-31-2011, 06:09 PM
I think the Tebow comparison is apt, because Tebow had no business going in the first round. McDaniels was an idiot and I've yet to meet a Broncos fan who wouldn't agree.

One thing about Kaepernick - he'll have to make his money as a passer and nothing else. His speed is pure straight-line speed - he's not actually particularly agile and seems a little tight-hipped. Takes some time getting up to full speed and doesn't seem to move easily from sideline to sideline. Not a Mike Vick by any means.

Also, CK does something that Tebow can never do and can be considered a big time hindrance on Tebow... CK throws with his righthand. Only 32 QBs in NFL history have started games as lefthanders. Coaches are hesitant to have to flip around their playboks for lefties, have their blindside OT the RT, etc. Tebow played well as a rookie... and that will only help CK's cause.

brasho
01-31-2011, 06:15 PM
you mean the team with the all-time winningest coach (eddie robinson)? or the program that was, at the time, renowned for the number of players it sent to the nfl?



yeah, i mean, navy was only the #2 ranked team in the country at that point and playing in the de facto national championship.



yes, that tiny little school that won a national championship in 1984 and was widely known as quarterback u.

actually a few of them, but it's hard to fault you for not knowing what a simple internet search could've told you.

all that shows is that you can manipulate statistics to mislead someone into believing nearly anything.

That's great, and I can name 30 QB duds from major universities for every Mike Cherry and Carmazzi you throw at me.

You think Staubach had a tiny bit to do with Navy's #2 ranking? Have they done much sense then? How many players from the Naval Academy have played in the NFL before and after Staubach?

i
How many great players has Grambling put out since Doug Wiliams? Jake Reed? Nice try. Their heyday was in the 60's and Williams was drafted in 78.

Yeah, BYU was known as QBU... however, Gifford Nielsen, Marc Wilson, Robbie Bosco, Ty Detmer, and Steve Walsh's brother didn't do much of anything in the NFL. Jim McMahon and Steve Young were the two that did... how many other BYU players turned out well? Rathman, Shawn Knight and Jason Buck were below average, Glenn Kozlowski? I suppose you want to point to former 12th round pick or so, Todd Christensen? The good ones from BYU are few and far between.

brasho
01-31-2011, 06:26 PM
30%<70% by the way - We all know that you think the small school QB can make it in the NFL and I'm sure 90% of us agree that not every big school QB will produce in the NFL. There's too many variables to really put a finger on what makes a college QB successful in the NFL.

It's a game of adjustments and as QBs are I guess becoming more and more "out of the pocket" throwers, defenses will then adapt to those kind of QBs as well.

Aside from Rodgers, Vick, Big Ben and Sanchez, who else can you say are MOBILE QBs and not your typical "pocket passer"?

The QB position is still a pocket passers game, the mobile QB label just adds a dimension. Just like a RB than never fumbles and can catch the ball out of the backfield as well.

You've heard of Josh Freeman, right? He moves his feet with the best of them... and in case you didn't notice, he's still the 2nd youngest QB in the entire league. Matt Casssl has good feet, Tony Romo, I almost want to throw Garrard out there because if it weren't for his mobility he would stink, Fitzpatrick, Jay Cutler, Jon Kitna (ran for 15 yards average a game and 4.7 a carry), Jason Campbell, but just consider this.,.. 5 of the top 10 passers according to rating this season are guys by your definition as mobile. Rodgers, Vick, Roethlisberger, Freeman, and Cassel. Vince Young would be on that list if he had enough attempts... and I think Flacco's mobility is underrated.

Mobility is a great equalizer for a young QB and CK will be at a great advantage of putting the extra pressure on a defense while he learns the nuances of the game.

FUNBUNCHER
01-31-2011, 06:31 PM
That's great, and I can name 30 QB duds from major universities for every Mike Cherry and Carmazzi you throw at me.



How many great players has Grambling put out since Doug Wiliams? Jake Reed? Nice try. Their heyday was in the 60's and Williams was drafted in 78.




Because the MAN integrated big time football down South after USC whupped Alabama in the early 70s(?) and Grambling lost its pipeline for the best AA football talent.

Look at LSU's roster and just think what the Tigers would look like if all those players went to Grambling??

Integration was great for the country, college and pro football.
Not so good for former football powers like Grambling.

the natural
01-31-2011, 07:41 PM
Tebow got crucified (if you'll pardon the expression) for his Senior Bowl performance, which was 8/12 passing with no TDs or picks. Kaepernick somehow get lionized for going 4/9 with no TDs and a pick. Whatever.

For the people here that get on Josh McDaniels for drafting Tebow, all the fans on the Denver boards are saying that if Josh had played Tim earlier in the season he would still be coaching there. So much for that pov. Tebow started the last 3 games of the season. A handful of other rookies did the same. Tim was easily the best of them, passing and running. Including Bradford.

brasho
01-31-2011, 08:31 PM
Tebow got crucified (if you'll pardon the expression) for his Senior Bowl performance, which was 8/12 passing with no TDs or picks. Kaepernick somehow get lionized for going 4/9 with no TDs and a pick. Whatever.

For the people here that get on Josh McDaniels for drafting Tebow, all the fans on the Denver boards are saying that if Josh had played Tim earlier in the season he would still be coaching there. So much for that pov. Tebow started the last 3 games of the season. A handful of other rookies did the same. Tim was easily the best of them, passing and running. Including Bradford.

CK had 3 drops (one of which was knocked right into the hands of a defender), one throw away , and one pass that was high and out of bounds with a defender up the middle a half second from putting a lick on him. That accounts for all 5 incompletions. He should have been 7/9 with no picks.

brasho
01-31-2011, 08:42 PM
i'm sure you can. think you can tell me why, though?



are you suggesting he was the only player on that team, or do you want to admit you don't know anything about football in that era?



yippee? they never lost more than 3 games in the 70s and were sending a good number of players to the nfl through the mid-80s. but props. we should certainly argue about what they've done *since* the guy we're talking about graduated. that would have a lot to do with absolutely nothing.



1984. national championship. they were *not* a small school. you were simply wrong.

Ok, with your little point-counterpoint garbage you're pulling, you clearly are doing nothing but attempting to insult me and then fill your post with revisionist history. No, I wasn't around for Roger Staubach's Naval heroics, and that's fine with me, I prefer not to be so old and crusty that every new-fangled thing I see I have to scream out, "That's not the way they did things back in my day!"

Still, Roger Staubach was the main reason for Navy's high standings during his team... He won a Heisman with them... it wasn't for another 20 years before a player from a military academy even got mentioned as a Heisman candidate (Napoleon McCallum).

Yes, Grambling and Eddie Robinson were impressive, and so was Doug Williams when he returned to coach for a season (or two, I don't remember), but being a great D1-AA school isn't exactly being a great school in the SEC, is it?

As for BYU, they were a small school. THey were such a small school in fact that they were locked out of playing in any real bowl games and had to play a terrible Michigan team that came into the game at 6-5 (or whatever it was) and still needed a near miracle at the end from Bosco to win it. That was quite the statement game, beating a barely .500 team by the skin of their teeth. Then that program went big-time, right? Yep, Sean Covey, Michael Young, and a whole host of BYU QB wannabes got hyped out of their minds but Lavelle's crew was to contend for serious status no more. When a school recruits almost totally Mormon athletes, I would say their recruiting is pretty limited and always has been. Not to mention a majority of them go off on a mission when they're 19 and don't lift or play ball for two years.... but yeah, other than that, they're another USC.

87Canes
01-31-2011, 09:22 PM
You've heard of Josh Freeman, right? He moves his feet with the best of them... and in case you didn't notice, he's still the 2nd youngest QB in the entire league. Matt Casssl has good feet, Tony Romo, I almost want to throw Garrard out there because if it weren't for his mobility he would stink, Fitzpatrick, Jay Cutler, Jon Kitna (ran for 15 yards average a game and 4.7 a carry), Jason Campbell, but just consider this.,.. 5 of the top 10 passers according to rating this season are guys by your definition as mobile. Rodgers, Vick, Roethlisberger, Freeman, and Cassel. Vince Young would be on that list if he had enough attempts... and I think Flacco's mobility is underrated.

Mobility is a great equalizer for a young QB and CK will be at a great advantage of putting the extra pressure on a defense while he learns the nuances of the game.

Every QB has to mobile in todays game. You're pretty much manipulating every thing anyone says to fit the point you're trying to get across. All those QBs you mentioned aside from Josh Freeman are technically not real mobile QBs. They're not sitting ducks like Peyton but like I said, it's 2011 and every NFL QB has to be able to move.

The point is QBs need to be pocket passers. QBs who weren't/aren't pocket passers, Rex Grossman...dude saw the pocket start to collapse and he'd just throw something up and hope it landed to someone on his team.

I just see CK's learning curve being wayyyyy to steep to become an elite passer in the NFL. As I stated in another thread, he's VY Part 2 and to say VY is a good QB is absurd. Off the field issues and attitude is part of being a successful QB in the NFL. Regarding CK and the Senior Bowl, CK ran every chance he had instead of keeping his eyes downfield for a pass.

I'm done debating the CK thread - We'll let the draft and the NFL experts conclude this debate in April. My prediction is early 3rd round for CK, Locker will get picked in the 2nd because of his "hype" and all the other Senior Bowl QBs will go in rd 3 or higher with Ponder being the 1st one out of everyone aside from CK and JL. McElroy and Dalton shouldn't be drafted honestly.

brasho
02-02-2011, 03:42 PM
Every QB has to mobile in todays game. You're pretty much manipulating every thing anyone says to fit the point you're trying to get across. All those QBs you mentioned aside from Josh Freeman are technically not real mobile QBs. They're not sitting ducks like Peyton but like I said, it's 2011 and every NFL QB has to be able to move.

The point is QBs need to be pocket passers. QBs who weren't/aren't pocket passers, Rex Grossman...dude saw the pocket start to collapse and he'd just throw something up and hope it landed to someone on his team.

I just see CK's learning curve being wayyyyy to steep to become an elite passer in the NFL. As I stated in another thread, he's VY Part 2 and to say VY is a good QB is absurd. Off the field issues and attitude is part of being a successful QB in the NFL. Regarding CK and the Senior Bowl, CK ran every chance he had instead of keeping his eyes downfield for a pass.
I'm done debating the CK thread - We'll let the draft and the NFL experts conclude this debate in April. My prediction is early 3rd round for CK, Locker will get picked in the 2nd because of his "hype" and all the other Senior Bowl QBs will go in rd 3 or higher with Ponder being the 1st one out of everyone aside from CK and JL. McElroy and Dalton shouldn't be drafted honestly.

Every QB I listed average 15 yards or more rushing per game, most, even Jon Kitna had well over 4.5 ypc... that is called scrambling ability, especially after you factor out the rushing attempts that were kneel downs.

So you honestly don't think Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick, Matt Cassell, Ben Roethlisberger, Romo, Cutler, Fitzpatrick, and others (Kitna had the stats to prove mobiity, VY and Garrard have the mobility to justify putting them on the field) aren't mobile? That was one of the major topics of discussion with some of the playoff games, which was how mobile some of these QBs are.... and you don't think they are.

As for VInce Young, the guy's lifetime record as a starter is 30-17, which puts him pretty high up on the list for win% for active NFL QBs... and before you go thinking that it was the great team around him, the TItans just fired their coach for a reason (they went 6-10 this season, VY went 4-4) and it was long overdue. Six playoff appearances in 16 seasons don't exactly scream "SUCCESS!". And considering the Titans were 4-12, and 5-11 the two seasons immediately preceding VY, it is safe to assume that the 8-8 and 10-6 seasons after he came aboard might have had a little something to do with him, it is safe to bet that VY's biggest problems aren't on the field, but off.

You think CK is VY part 2, good for you, but there really aren't that many similarities. Though CK has very similar size to VY when he came out of college (6044 225 compared to 6045 229 lbs), CK has a far stronger arm, and much better straightline speed, which comes in far more handy than VY's ability to punish tacklers like he did in college.

Like I've said a million times before, CK is a much closer match physically and background-wise to former UNLV and Eagles and Vikings star, Randall Cunningham. Especially considering that CK has been known as a very hardworker while VY was known as a dummy (5 on Wonderlic) and a hothead (public tantrums after not winning Heisman in 2006). Considering how unintelligent and immature VY has shown he is as a pro, it is not surprising to see how he turned out.

As for your assumption that CK ran EVERY time he got pressured in the pocket, you couldn't be more wrong and living in your own little revisionist history. He was pressured threee different times only to step up and deliver strikes. The first time he stepped up underneath a rush from his right and threw a strike that bounced off Mike McNeil's hands for an INT, the other time he threw a strike to a WR in the intermediate zone to his right, and the last time he stepped up and ran parrallel to the LOS to have Hunter drop his pass at the left sideline. He ran 4 times, at least 2 of which were designed runs. I can't remember one his runs, but the 7 yarder was the one he ran from 3rd and goal from the 15 and it was a far better play than trying to force the ball into coverage. Your asserting that he took off every time he was pressured tells me that you either didn't watch any of the game, you just remember what you WANT to remember, or you have no idea of what you're talking about. Personally, I think it is a bit of all 3.

Ok, let's get some else clear... when you state that somebody will be "picked in the 2nd rounder or higher"... what you're saying is they will get picked in round 3 or higher... meaning round 1 or 2. I'm not sure if you knew that. I think what you mean is "3rd round or LATER". I think McElroy and Dalton will be drafted. They will be solid clipboard guys with whomever drafts them. They are both very smart, prepare well, and are the kind of guys you look for to be backups for a long time. Nobody will likely look at either of them and think that he is the answer to their problems at QB but they should be drafted.

I think you underestimate how much the NFL is a QB's league. Jake Locker still goes in round 1 no matter how much hype he has. He has a gun, can run like hell, has good enough size, and only has 2 seasons in a pro style offense. He needs developing for sure, but he has the raw tools a coach would love to work with. Same with CK. No team that has seen the early success of Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Josh Freeman, and Mark Sanchez is going to pass on a possible special QB (remember all the questions about Roethlisberger's and Flacco's level of competition, Ryan's arm strength, Freeman's accuracy and ability to adapt to a pro style offense and accuracy, and Sanchez's starting experience-12 or 13 games?) ALL QBs come into the league with questions. Rivers had a crazy release and questionable feet and arm strength (he also came from the spread), Brees had more questions than most QBs in recent memory (arm strength, size, collegiate offense), it's part of the process.

As for CK having to adapt to playing in the NFL, consider the fact that the majority of the pass coming from the QBs in the playoffs, came from shotgun, it would make sense that the jump to playing under OC is not as big of a deal as you might think. Here are the numbers for passes thrown from shotgun for playoff QBs: Peyton Manning attempted 76% of his passes out of the gun this year. Aaron Rodgers 65%. Tom Brady 64%. Kevin Kolb 64%. Ben Roethlisberger 62%. Michael Vick 61%. Matt Ryan 58%. Drew Brees 57%. Matt Hasselbeck 56%. Matt Cassel 52%. Joe Flacco 46%. Mark Sanchez 44%.Jay Cutler 15%. Maybe the biggest adjustment needed to be made here isn't with CK's adjustment to the NFL, but to the way you view him as a prospect.

87Canes
02-02-2011, 08:17 PM
Every QB I listed average 15 yards or more rushing per game, most, even Jon Kitna had well over 4.5 ypc... that is called scrambling ability, especially after you factor out the rushing attempts that were kneel downs.

So you honestly don't think Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick, Matt Cassell, Ben Roethlisberger, Romo, Cutler, Fitzpatrick, and others (Kitna had the stats to prove mobiity, VY and Garrard have the mobility to justify putting them on the field) aren't mobile? That was one of the major topics of discussion with some of the playoff games, which was how mobile some of these QBs are.... and you don't think they are.

As for VInce Young, the guy's lifetime record as a starter is 30-17, which puts him pretty high up on the list for win% for active NFL QBs... and before you go thinking that it was the great team around him, the TItans just fired their coach for a reason (they went 6-10 this season, VY went 4-4) and it was long overdue. Six playoff appearances in 16 seasons don't exactly scream "SUCCESS!". And considering the Titans were 4-12, and 5-11 the two seasons immediately preceding VY, it is safe to assume that the 8-8 and 10-6 seasons after he came aboard might have had a little something to do with him, it is safe to bet that VY's biggest problems aren't on the field, but off.

You think CK is VY part 2, good for you, but there really aren't that many similarities. Though CK has very similar size to VY when he came out of college (6044 225 compared to 6045 229 lbs), CK has a far stronger arm, and much better straightline speed, which comes in far more handy than VY's ability to punish tacklers like he did in college.

Like I've said a million times before, CK is a much closer match physically and background-wise to former UNLV and Eagles and Vikings star, Randall Cunningham. Especially considering that CK has been known as a very hardworker while VY was known as a dummy (5 on Wonderlic) and a hothead (public tantrums after not winning Heisman in 2006). Considering how unintelligent and immature VY has shown he is as a pro, it is not surprising to see how he turned out.

As for your assumption that CK ran EVERY time he got pressured in the pocket, you couldn't be more wrong and living in your own little revisionist history. He was pressured threee different times only to step up and deliver strikes. The first time he stepped up underneath a rush from his right and threw a strike that bounced off Mike McNeil's hands for an INT, the other time he threw a strike to a WR in the intermediate zone to his right, and the last time he stepped up and ran parrallel to the LOS to have Hunter drop his pass at the left sideline. He ran 4 times, at least 2 of which were designed runs. I can't remember one his runs, but the 7 yarder was the one he ran from 3rd and goal from the 15 and it was a far better play than trying to force the ball into coverage. Your asserting that he took off every time he was pressured tells me that you either didn't watch any of the game, you just remember what you WANT to remember, or you have no idea of what you're talking about. Personally, I think it is a bit of all 3.

Ok, let's get some else clear... when you state that somebody will be "picked in the 2nd rounder or higher"... what you're saying is they will get picked in round 3 or higher... meaning round 1 or 2. I'm not sure if you knew that. I think what you mean is "3rd round or LATER". I think McElroy and Dalton will be drafted. They will be solid clipboard guys with whomever drafts them. They are both very smart, prepare well, and are the kind of guys you look for to be backups for a long time. Nobody will likely look at either of them and think that he is the answer to their problems at QB but they should be drafted.

I think you underestimate how much the NFL is a QB's league. Jake Locker still goes in round 1 no matter how much hype he has. He has a gun, can run like hell, has good enough size, and only has 2 seasons in a pro style offense. He needs developing for sure, but he has the raw tools a coach would love to work with. Same with CK. No team that has seen the early success of Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Josh Freeman, and Mark Sanchez is going to pass on a possible special QB (remember all the questions about Roethlisberger's and Flacco's level of competition, Ryan's arm strength, Freeman's accuracy and ability to adapt to a pro style offense and accuracy, and Sanchez's starting experience-12 or 13 games?) ALL QBs come into the league with questions. Rivers had a crazy release and questionable feet and arm strength (he also came from the spread), Brees had more questions than most QBs in recent memory (arm strength, size, collegiate offense), it's part of the process.

As for CK having to adapt to playing in the NFL, consider the fact that the majority of the pass coming from the QBs in the playoffs, came from shotgun, it would make sense that the jump to playing under OC is not as big of a deal as you might think. Here are the numbers for passes thrown from shotgun for playoff QBs: Peyton Manning attempted 76% of his passes out of the gun this year. Aaron Rodgers 65%. Tom Brady 64%. Kevin Kolb 64%. Ben Roethlisberger 62%. Michael Vick 61%. Matt Ryan 58%. Drew Brees 57%. Matt Hasselbeck 56%. Matt Cassel 52%. Joe Flacco 46%. Mark Sanchez 44%.Jay Cutler 15%. Maybe the biggest adjustment needed to be made here isn't with CK's adjustment to the NFL, but to the way you view him as a prospect.

So you still have yet to say if CK will be a 1st round draft pick or not? Which is the only reason for why I even started to comment on this thread.

I'm calling 3rd round and LATER but if he's lucky due to a WEAK QB class, he may go late 2nd round, unfortunately.

I compliment you for doing your research on numbers though. I merely have the time to compile actual stats nor do I think stats tell the whole story or even a significant part of a prospects ability. I do judge a book by its cover regarding scouting (currently) because it's not my job yet. Once I can focus 1000% of my time on it, stats will be incorporated into an evaluation. "It's part of the process"

brasho
02-02-2011, 08:35 PM
So you still have yet to say if CK will be a 1st round draft pick or not? Which is the only reason for why I even started to comment on this thread.

I'm calling 3rd round and LATER but if he's lucky due to a WEAK QB class, he may go late 2nd round, unfortunately.

I compliment you for doing your research on numbers though. I merely have the time to compile actual stats nor do I think stats tell the whole story or even a significant part of a prospects ability. I do judge a book by its cover regarding scouting (currently) because it's not my job yet. Once I can focus 1000% of my time on it, stats will be incorporated into an evaluation. "It's part of the process"

I've stated numerous times in this post where I thought he would go, top 64 with an emphasis that he goes around where Cunningham went (#37 overall) with a +/- of 10-20 spots. I'm looking at anywhere from pick #25 overall to #57.

87Canes
02-02-2011, 08:51 PM
I've stated numerous times in this post where I thought he would go, top 64 with an emphasis that he goes around where Cunningham went (#37 overall) with a +/- of 10-20 spots. I'm looking at anywhere from pick #25 overall to #57.

C'mooooon man!!! That's like me betting on Tom Brady throwing a TD pass vs the Broncos secondary. Too general - Huge room for someone to say, "Yep I told ya"

I'll call my pick right now. Buffalo Bills draft pick in rd 3. Chan Gailey always makes decent NFL QBs out of guys who weren't necessarily your prototypical NFL QB. Thigpen and Fitz in recent future...not to mention Reggie Ball was an ok QB at GT.

brasho
02-02-2011, 09:14 PM
C'mooooon man!!! That's like me betting on Tom Brady throwing a TD pass vs the Broncos secondary. Too general - Huge room for someone to say, "Yep I told ya"

I'll call my pick right now. Buffalo Bills draft pick in rd 3. Chan Gailey always makes decent NFL QBs out of guys who weren't necessarily your prototypical NFL QB. Thigpen and Fitz in recent future...not to mention Reggie Ball was an ok QB at GT.

I say he could go at #25 to Seahawks (who knows how desperate they are for a future signal caller?), Bills at #34 (depending on if they pick a QB in round 1), Cards at #38 (depending on if they pick a QB in round 1), Titans at #39 (blah blah, round 1), Skins at #41 blah blah), Vikings at #43 (blah), 49ers at #45 (though this is one place I don't think he'll fit), Raiders at #48 (he certainly has enough tattoos to impress Al Davis), Jags at #49 (depending if they pick a QB in round 1, which I doubt with DelRio likely gone after this season), or Seahawks at #57. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Dolphins somehow get back into round 2 to get him. Although in an effort to locate the Dolphins 2nd round draft pick I just stumbled onto this site that had the Dolphins taking CK at #15 overall (http://newnfldraft.com/archives/2221).

brasho
02-02-2011, 09:18 PM
C'mooooon man!!! That's like me betting on Tom Brady throwing a TD pass vs the Broncos secondary. Too general - Huge room for someone to say, "Yep I told ya"

I'll call my pick right now. Buffalo Bills draft pick in rd 3. Chan Gailey always makes decent NFL QBs out of guys who weren't necessarily your prototypical NFL QB. Thigpen and Fitz in recent future...not to mention Reggie Ball was an ok QB at GT.

Considering Scott Wright and a few others have come on here and said that he is "definitely not going to be a QB in the NFL" while others have said that anybody would be crazy to pick him before round 4 and that "he's still not going to be a good QB"... I would say that stating that he'll go between picks 25 and 57 is a pretty good guess...but my best guesses would be between #25-43.

SF Dolphin Fan
02-03-2011, 05:36 PM
Kaepernick's release is a little slow, and he needs to learn how to become a 5 step, drop back passer in the NFL. But he does have all the physical tools, and the thing I love about him is that when he gets outside the pocket to avoid the rush, he's still looking to throw (Aaron Rodgers-like).

I like the arm strength, accuracy, poise, pocket presence and athleticism. There are concerns, but I like him a lot more today than I did a week ago.

He's the number 2 QB on my board, and there really isn't anybody outside of him and Gabbert that I'd spend more than a 4th round pick on.What about Newton? If he dropped to 15 I'd think Miami would be all over him. I do think the Dolphins are looking at either Gabbert, Newton or Kaepernick.

Clarkw267
02-03-2011, 06:58 PM
Whoa.. there are some huge Kaepernick slappies here. Guy is a major project. His release is nothing like Philip Rivers. Rivers still gets the ball out in a hurry, while Kaepernick takes some time. He'll have to go through a mechanical change in his throwing motion. I suspect he'll go in the 3rd or later.

D-Unit
02-03-2011, 07:05 PM
Do you guys think new threads about the guy will make people like him more?

He's overrated right now. For one, this QB class is terrible and people are trying to find someone...anyone to hype if they even show a glimpse of being good. Secondly, CK is good at showing glimpses... but if you want a good legit QB, then he's not your man. He's not a drop back passer. Doesn't see the field as good as you want him to, is not that accurate, and simply doesn't have a good sense of the QB position.

If you want cocky, mobile, strong armed and tall... he's your man. If you want a back up, he can be groomed. If you want a franchise NFL QB, look away... look faaaaaaar away.

San Diego Chicken
02-03-2011, 07:13 PM
Whoa.. there are some huge Kaepernick slappies here. Guy is a major project. His release is nothing like Philip Rivers. Rivers still gets the ball out in a hurry, while Kaepernick takes some time. He'll have to go through a mechanical change in his throwing motion. I suspect he'll go in the 3rd or later.

Yeah, I like the guy a lot as a competitor and a leader, one of my favorite college players in the last few years. But I see Colin as an athlete playing QB instead of a QB who happens to be athletic. He'd be an exciting backup, but he needs three to four years at least if he were to develop into a capable starter.

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:04 AM
At this point it's all about what's inside CK heart and head, where he's drafted and who his OC and QB coach are.

Physically he has the tools to play in the NFL at a high level.

One thing about today's NFL is that teams seem to be more willing to tailor an offense around what a QB does best, and not constantly put their signal caller
in an adverse situation that doesn't play to their strengths.

I personally like him, and would spend a pick on him anywhere from #28 on down.

But let's watch the Senior Bowl first!!!

Nice call. 90% A

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:05 AM
His upside is through the roof. People want to knock him and say that his passing delivery and college offense are going to hold him back at the NFL level but I call shenanigans. Does he have a lot to learn and a lot to improve on? Absolutely. But often times rookie QBs with exceptional athleticism come in and just make plays because of how dynamic they are and I believe that Colin could be that type of player early in his career ala Tim Tebow, Mike Vick, Vince Young, Donovan McNabb and other mobile guys. If you put him out there he won't run an efficient offense but he sure as hell will make you some plays IMO with his explosive running and throwing ability and he wouldn't be the first mobile QB to do exactly that.

But he has a lot to learn but he seems like a guy who is good enough between the ears to eventually learn those things and that coupled with his incredibly tempting athleticism will get him a shot at a starting QB spot in the NFL on a team.

Another nice read, 93%, A

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:06 AM
Colin Kaepernick in the 4th, sure. I will laugh 96 times straight if that happens.

Anywhere after #12 overall is a steal for the team that gets Colin.

Not bad, sarcasm followed by accolades. 89% B+

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:07 AM
I've said it before the Senior Bowl week started and I'll say it yet again. According to those that have been around him, CK has excellent work ethic. I feel tthat, and the ability to actually throw a ball is the most important thing a QB can have. Obviously, great natural talent will allow that player with a great work ethic to be a better player. If you take a look through NFL history, the QBs with the great work ethic are the most successful. Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees... and now look at the difference work ethic has made to Michael Vick. He went from being a unmatched physical talent without a great work ethic (according to his own admission) to a slightly lesser physical talent (than he was) with an improved work ethic and he had by far his best season ever. Consider Ty Detmer and Chad Pennington's work ethics. Both of those guys were among the least physically talented QBs of the past 30 years and yet they both had long careers because they worked so hard at their craft.

I don't understand Scott and Shane's disdain for CK. Obviously CK has tremendous physical tools. He might be the most physically gifted QB (from an NFL standpoint as speed > strength as a runner) to come out in several years, he has an excellent work ethic.. and he's not stupid.. so what's the hang-up? Yeah, he ran the pistol offense in college... and Brees ran the spread, so did Bradford, Freeman, and VY, Rivers ran a lot of spread, McNabb ran some option, so CK ran the pistol, which is basically a more powerful spread.

When comparing CK to other prospects making the jump to the NFL you go back to last season and compare him with Tebow. As far as this comparison goes, CK has better size, a much better arm, better mobility, though his release isn't ideal-it is far better than Tebow's (it isn't a whole lot worse than Philip Rivers's was when he came out). I thought the Broncos and McDaniels jumped the gun a bit on Tebow and could have got him in the early 2nd without any feat of losing him...and as much as we slammed McDaniels for horrible decisions with personnel, this is one that actually didn't look so bad. Tebow put up 23 points or more in each of his starts, won 1 of his 3 games and looked competent while doing it. How did Tebow manage that despite not being a GREAT prospect? Work ethic. Everybody knew that Tebow would work harder than everybody and despite his perceived limitations, he had enough physical ability that he worked hard enough to make it work. And that's what I see with CK... only I don't see nearly as many physical limitations.

I've compared CK to Randall Cunningham when he came out of UNLV in the 80's and I'm sticking to it. Both QBs had very thin builds. Cunningham was 6'4 205 when he came out of school, Kaepernick 6'5 225 though he looks very thin. Both QBs had very strong arms and amazing straight line speed (Cunningham 4.6 to CK's 4.5). Both QBs had hitches in their deliveries. Cunningham's release resembled a whip... CK drops the ball down as low as his solar plexus before bringing it back up to throw. As we all know, Cunningham had an excellent career, just like I think CK can as well.

Randall Cunningham was drafted #37 overall in the 85 draft... and that's where I expect CK to be drafted, give or take 10-15 spots down or up. I expect him to be gone between picks 24-50.

I watched the Senior Bowl practices and though NFLN had the worst coverage possible, I saw, on average, of 4 throws from Kaepernick per day... and throws I saw were there, some spectacular, some were screens, dump-offs, etc. Regardless of what happened on the other 46 throws CK had each day, he really brung the wow factor on several of the the throws I saw and based on that, NFL GMs will be more apt to take a chance on him because of it... especially considering how well he moves his feet. People always say that a good TE... or a running game, are a young QB's best friend... well, there's one more... his feet. Young QBs that can move their feet and put pressure on a defense that way as well as keeping the chains moving and buy time for better throws have shown to really help a young QB until that QB gets a hang of the offensive system.

From a physical comparison standpoint to other similar type QBs in the past 20 years, CK is as good or better physically than Tebow, Kordell Stewart, Vince Young (better arm, speed, not a mental patient), Quncy Carter, Pat White, Tavaris Jackson, Jason Campbell, Shaun King, and even Steve McNair (better size, speed, and far better level of competition) and all of these guys were taken in either rounds 1 or 2. Colt McCoy was a 3rd rounder with a similar style but had ZERO abilities close to be on par with CK.

Obviously, many of these guys didn't make it in the NFL and only McNair became a star... but if you compare the success ratio of these QBs with all other 1st and 2nd round QBs taken in the last 20 years you'll see similar results. And this isn't even including one QB, omiitted because he has the feet of an OG, Byron Leftwich (comparable arm strength, way better release, and 1000X better feet) which I wanted to include because people continually ant to harp on CK's less than ideal throwing motion... which is still way better than Tebow, Leftwich, and on par with VY's and Philip River's.

Whether you really like CK, or like Scott and Shane-you hate him... let's face it, when you state that somebody will NEVER start in the NFL and you predict nothing but doom and gloom, you can't help but to root against a guy if for no other reason than to be right, so you guys hate him, you can't deny his physical talent. Considering the NFL drafts more based on potential than production (and CK has plenty of both), there is no denying his potential. There is also the great work ethic... and he certainly doesn't seem stupid, CK should go in the 1st 2 rounds.

One thing I will agree with Shane and Scott on is that CK should not be thrust immediately into a starting role. As a matter of fact, I would prefer to see him brought along the way Cunningham or Steve McNair were, by inserting them in for a series, putting them in for certain plays (wlidcat-type) and let him get his feet wet that way.

This guy has way too much talent for anybody to immediately announce he will NEVER make it in the NFL. Considering far less talented, experienced, and esteemed (by others) QBs like Tom Brady, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Rich Gannon (yes, he was drafted-but as a DB and then was gotten rid of when he declared he only wanted to play QB!), Jake Delhomme, David Garrard, and numerous others were said to have no shot at being a starting QB in the NFL, I think it is very premature to declare a player that has tremendous gifts, a strong work ethic, outstanding production, and good character to not have a chance.

Hey, that's me. Good job me! 99% A

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:08 AM
This guy will be the best QB out of this class. Mark it down.

Ouch, this guy is right on the money. 100% A+

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:08 AM
If the league goes to 18 games and the pre season is significantly reduced, developing a QB could become very difficult making drafting one high even a higher priority. This guy is a project but with his arm and other assets, he should go reasonably high, maybe round 2/3 but likely round 4/5.
Can he be developed in the new 18 game NFL, we'll just have to see because he'll never get much of an opportunity in pre season to play.

Not very good, could be worse 71% C-

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:10 AM
This is the "scouting report" I've compiled on Kapernick. I think I'm warming up to the guy because his accuracy is impressive but I'm not his biggest fan.

The Good
- Height isn't a problem (6'4 1/2)
- Rocket arm, perhaps the best in his class
- Accurate overall on all types of passes
- Throws a very catchable ball
- Good internal clock, doesn't take a lot of uneeded sacks
- Mobile, will flash an impressive second gear in the open field
- Keeps eyes downfield while on move
- Clutch
- Leader, winner
- Ultra-productive career both passing and running
- A strong senior year
- Good coaching
- Durable
The Bad
- "Gumby" body, needs to fill out his frame
- Struggles in the red zone, turnover prone
- Will stare down receivers, force some throws
- Will throw across his body
- Bit of a windup
- Tends to hold the ball away from his body when running, prone to fumbling
- May be a little too quick to hit checkdown, doesn't always go through progressions
- Pistol offense
Other
- Four year starter, 50 games
- Three straight years of 2000 yards passing, 1000 yards rushing, first to ever do so
- 140 career touchdowns passing and rushing
- Just under 14000 yards ot total offense
- Defeated Bosie St to eliminate them from championship contention
- Coached by ultra-experienced coach Chris Ault
- Throws a 90+ mph fastball, drafted by Cubs in 43rd round
Final Word
Very interesting skillset coupled with one of the most productive careers for any college QB. Has the physical tools but the mental side is suspect.
Games Watched
at Hawaii (half), at Idaho (half), at Fresno St, vs Bosie St, vs Boston College

Hmmmm, not a big fan... mental side is suspect, Gumby body? 75% C

vidae
01-13-2013, 09:11 AM
Did this seriously just happen? This is the very definition of post whoring.

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:11 AM
Kaepernick's release is a little slow, and he needs to learn how to become a 5 step, drop back passer in the NFL. But he does have all the physical tools, and the thing I love about him is that when he gets outside the pocket to avoid the rush, he's still looking to throw (Aaron Rodgers-like).

I like the arm strength, accuracy, poise, pocket presence and athleticism. There are concerns, but I like him a lot more today than I did a week ago.

He's the number 2 QB on my board, and there really isn't anybody outside of him and Gabbert that I'd spend more than a 4th round pick on.

Good and bad... 85% B

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:12 AM
I havent got caught too much up in the Kaepernick talk because I hadn't seen enough of him. But after seeing more through watching highlights of practices and the game at the senior bowl, and reading some reports on him Im worried about him as a prospect. QB is the one position where it is more about technique and smarts than anything else. As an athlete he looks the part. Big, tall guy with a very strong arm. But his throwing motion is elongated and I don't like his footwork in the pocket and I think he tries to run too often.Im not ruling him out to be successful in the NFL but any team that drafts him higher than the third and expects him to be the starter early will be disappointed.

Not a good showing from this scouting service... 65% D

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:14 AM
I like Kaepernick as a guy that can maybe develop into a player down the road, but 1st round talk is crazy. They guy might creep into the 3rd.

I don't buy the Tebow comparison also. Tebow also played top competition and was a proven leader. I'm not saying that CK isn't but Tebow was a exemplary player in that regard.

Mmmm. mostly bad, some good though. 70% C-

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:15 AM
To be honest, if you break them down physically and how they play the game, there's not much difference between CK and Newton as QBs, and I say that as a compliment to both, ( guys I expect to eventually get it done in a big way at the next level).

Nice statement, 88% B+

AcheTen (Thumper)
01-13-2013, 09:16 AM
so what we've learned is that DUnit and AntoinCD are suspect evaluators of QB talent

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:17 AM
I think the Tebow comparison is apt, because Tebow had no business going in the first round. McDaniels was an idiot and I've yet to meet a Broncos fan who wouldn't agree.

One thing about Kaepernick - he'll have to make his money as a passer and nothing else. His speed is pure straight-line speed - he's not actually particularly agile and seems a little tight-hipped. Takes some time getting up to full speed and doesn't seem to move easily from sideline to sideline. Not a Mike Vick by any means.

Ummmm, duuuuuhhhhhh! Yes, we all know that having nifty moves is the top of the food chain for QBs. Straighline speed=14 -nifty moves=IR Bad analysis, 55% F

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:19 AM
Every QB has to mobile in todays game. You're pretty much manipulating every thing anyone says to fit the point you're trying to get across. All those QBs you mentioned aside from Josh Freeman are technically not real mobile QBs. They're not sitting ducks like Peyton but like I said, it's 2011 and every NFL QB has to be able to move.

The point is QBs need to be pocket passers. QBs who weren't/aren't pocket passers, Rex Grossman...dude saw the pocket start to collapse and he'd just throw something up and hope it landed to someone on his team.

I just see CK's learning curve being wayyyyy to steep to become an elite passer in the NFL. As I stated in another thread, he's VY Part 2 and to say VY is a good QB is absurd. Off the field issues and attitude is part of being a successful QB in the NFL. Regarding CK and the Senior Bowl, CK ran every chance he had instead of keeping his eyes downfield for a pass.

I'm done debating the CK thread - We'll let the draft and the NFL experts conclude this debate in April. My prediction is early 3rd round for CK, Locker will get picked in the 2nd because of his "hype" and all the other Senior Bowl QBs will go in rd 3 or higher with Ponder being the 1st one out of everyone aside from CK and JL. McElroy and Dalton shouldn't be drafted honestly.



EEwwww, owwwww, umph. Bad point, after bad point, after worse point, etc. 21% F-

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:21 AM
Considering Scott Wright and a few others have come on here and said that he is "definitely not going to be a QB in the NFL" while others have said that anybody would be crazy to pick him before round 4 and that "he's still not going to be a good QB"... I would say that stating that he'll go between picks 25 and 57 is a pretty good guess...but my best guesses would be between #25-43.

He didn't post here, but I do recall seeing Scott say this... Sorry I had to include you, Scott, 51% F

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:22 AM
Whoa.. there are some huge Kaepernick slappies here. Guy is a major project. His release is nothing like Philip Rivers. Rivers still gets the ball out in a hurry, while Kaepernick takes some time. He'll have to go through a mechanical change in his throwing motion. I suspect he'll go in the 3rd or later.

Not quite, at least you had him as a draftable prospect (unlike somebody coming up) 68% D+

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:24 AM
Do you guys think new threads about the guy will make people like him more?

He's overrated right now. For one, this QB class is terrible and people are trying to find someone...anyone to hype if they even show a glimpse of being good. Secondly, CK is good at showing glimpses... but if you want a good legit QB, then he's not your man. He's not a drop back passer. Doesn't see the field as good as you want him to, is not that accurate, and simply doesn't have a good sense of the QB position.

If you want cocky, mobile, strong armed and tall... he's your man. If you want a back up, he can be groomed. If you want a franchise NFL QB, look away... look faaaaaaar away.

Hmmmm, I don't know what to say. Bad QB class (3 of them led their teams to the playoffs THIS season, one was the rookie of the year, one is inj the NFC Championship game), not good sense at the QB position, ..... big miss there. 14% F-

OSUGiants17
01-13-2013, 09:25 AM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/25225787.jpg

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:25 AM
so what we've learned is that DUnit and AntoinCD are suspect evaluators of QB talent

And one guy that i LOVE to clown on absolutely nailed it. BucFan12, "I think this guy will be the best QB of the class"

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:27 AM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/25225787.jpg

Hey, I would. But when I had as many people as I did attacking me for my evaluation with nothing more than idiotic statements, I think it is more than fair that I get a chance to go back and point out some of their short-sighted, ignorant statements.

Miaoww
01-13-2013, 09:30 AM
And one guy that i LOVE to clown on absolutely nailed it. BucFan12, "I think this guy will be the best QB of the class"

You're clearly mistaken as his name isn't Cam Newton.

SuperPacker
01-13-2013, 09:32 AM
I'm all for handing out some crow, but you don't have to be a complete asshole about it. It just takes away from your victory.

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:32 AM
You're clearly mistaken as his name isn't Cam Newton.

When Cam stops having meltdowns and can win a close game or two, or, at least get a better than .500 record, it could be Cam Newton. But if the 49ers have to play the Falcons, I almost assuredly believe Kaepernick will be in the Super Bowl. If they play Seattle, not so sure. Newton hasn't come close to sniffing the playoffs.

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:33 AM
I'm all for handing out some crow, but you don't have to be a complete asshole about it. It just takes away from your victory.

I would agree, but as a teacher, it is in my nature to give out grades. Point noted, however...

Miaoww
01-13-2013, 09:34 AM
When Cam stops having meltdowns and can win a close game or two, or, at least get a better than .500 record, it could be Cam Newton. But if the 49ers have to play the Falcons, I almost assuredly believe Kaepernick will be in the Super Bowl. If they play Seattle, not so sure. Newton hasn't come close to sniffing the playoffs.

Look at the team and coaching staff around Colin then compare it to the team and coaching staff around Cam.

Alex Smith looked competent ffs.

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:39 AM
Look at the team and coaching staff around Colin then compare it to the team and coaching staff around Cam.

Alex Smith looked competent ffs.

Alex Smith once said, "I could put up big numbers like Cam Newton, but I'd rather win games."

Jim Harbaugh said, "I want somebody that will pick up big numbers when they win big games."

Advantage-Harbaugh and Kaepernick

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:41 AM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/25225787.jpg

That was so sweet of you. You come out with your profanity laced link and then dock me -500 points off my rep. That's so nice!

OSUGiants17
01-13-2013, 09:42 AM
Hey, I would. But when I had as many people as I did attacking me for my evaluation with nothing more than idiotic statements, I think it is more than fair that I get a chance to go back and point out some of their short-sighted, ignorant statements.

You look like a sore-winner who hasn't even won yet. Kap hasn't even started a full season and has made is fair share of mistakes already and it is only his 2nd year in the league. Settle down fella.

I also saw no one "attacking" you. People may have argued your point or disagreed with you but that's allowed, what do you expect on an internet forum? If we had people pulling up old posts and calling people out in every prospect threat it'd be absurd. No need to call people out like an asshole and certainly no need to quote each individual post.

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:42 AM
Did this seriously just happen? This is the very definition of post whoring.

Does it really matter? I posted multiple times on a thread that hadn't seen the light of day in nearly two years. So sorry I ruined such a great thread.

brasho
01-13-2013, 09:44 AM
You look like a sore-winner who hasn't even won yet. Kap hasn't even started a full season and has made is fair share of mistakes already and it is only his 2nd year in the league. Settle down fella.

I also saw no one "attacking" you. People may have argued your point or disagreed with you but that's allowed, what do you expect on an internet forum? If we had people pulling up old posts and calling people out in every prospect threat it'd be absurd. No need to call people out like an asshole and certainly no need to quote each individual post.

Yes, just as I suppose you posting a link telling me to "calm the #@$! down" and taking 500 points of rep isn't an attack either.

Eat a dick.

OSUGiants17
01-13-2013, 09:45 AM
That was so sweet of you. You come out with your profanity laced link and then dock me -500 points off my rep. That's so nice!

Please don't try and act like you're so mature and better than everyone. It wasn't "nice" of you to go out and dig up an old thread to call out people who didn't think a prospect would be as good as you did. I'm sure you missed on prospects too, we all do. Quit being a sore-winner. If you really are so mature then start acting like it by not calling people out on a wrong prediction a year later like a child.

EDIT:
Yes, just as I suppose you posting a link telling me to "calm the #@$! down" and taking 500 points of rep isn't an attack either.

Eat a dick.

No it's not an attack, it's my way of telling an overzealous child who doesn't know how to take a win in stride to calm down and stop post whoring and "attacking" people who made a wrong prediction a year later.

bucfan12
01-13-2013, 10:31 AM
This guy will be the best QB out of this class. Mark it down.

Page one. Said this. Eat it cam lovers. Haha

vidae
01-13-2013, 10:34 AM
Page one. Said this. Eat it cam lovers. Haha

Eat it? Why? Kaepernick isn't better than Cam..

scottyboy
01-13-2013, 10:38 AM
I would agree, but as a teacher, it is in my nature to give out grades. Point noted, however...

I'm a teacher as well, yet I didn't go around being a douchnozzle "grading" everyone who agreed or disagreed with me when Ray Rice stuck his impressive dong in the collective NFL and impregnated it. Learn how to be right and gloat. You probably haven't been there often before, hopefully you'll learn with time, padawan.

bucfan12
01-13-2013, 10:38 AM
Ouch, this guy is right on the money. 100% A+

I call it how I see it.

bucfan12
01-13-2013, 10:39 AM
Eat it? Why? Kaepernick isn't better than Cam..

Love to hear the argument?

scottyboy
01-13-2013, 10:40 AM
Love to hear the argument?

What's your argument? Let's see Kaep actually do something for more than a handful of games. And while Cam suffered his "sophomore slump" he rebounded and was extremely strong at the end of the season. And that's with a much less talented team than the niners if you're gonna pull the whole "JUST WINS GAMESZ" card.

bucfan12
01-13-2013, 10:40 AM
I'm a teacher as well, yet I didn't go around being a douchnozzle "grading" everyone who agreed or disagreed with me when Ray Rice stuck his impressive dong in the collective NFL and impregnated it. Learn how to be right and gloat. You probably haven't been there often before, hopefully you'll learn with time, padawan.

He's a true believer that freeman will guide the bucs to the playoffs. Tried not to laugh bc josh freeman and playoffs don't belong in te same sentence lol

bucfan12
01-13-2013, 10:50 AM
What's your argument? Let's see Kaep actually do something for more than a handful of games. And while Cam suffered his "sophomore slump" he rebounded and was extremely strong at the end of the season. And that's with a much less talented team than the niners if you're gonna pull the whole "JUST WINS GAMESZ" card.

Lets see on the big stage. Kaepernick showed poise and just shredded Green Bay.

I've liked Kaepernick coming out. Cam is a pre-Madonna and hangs his head when things go wrong. Kaepernick first drive throws a pick 6. Came back pretty well.

Leon Sandcastle
01-13-2013, 10:51 AM
Where would Kap be if his HC was Ron Rivera and Cam's HC was Jim Harbaugh? These things matter.

bucfan12
01-13-2013, 10:53 AM
Where would Kap be if his HC was Ron Rivera and Cam's HC was Jim Harbaugh? These things matter.

Idk. Where would any qb be if they had mega tron as ther wr? Btw rob Chidzinski was considered a very good coach.

At qb it's nice to have the physical tools and athelticism. But if you don't have it between the ears, then you'll be inconsistent.

bucfan12
01-13-2013, 10:55 AM
Too many what ifs. As a Tampa can I can correlate. What if we took Aaron Rodgers over Carnell Williams in 05? What if we traded up for Calvin Johnson in 07? What if we took Joe Flacco in 2008?

Sucks doesn't it

AntoinCD
01-13-2013, 10:56 AM
I havent got caught too much up in the Kaepernick talk because I hadn't seen enough of him. But after seeing more through watching highlights of practices and the game at the senior bowl, and reading some reports on him Im worried about him as a prospect. QB is the one position where it is more about technique and smarts than anything else. As an athlete he looks the part. Big, tall guy with a very strong arm. But his throwing motion is elongated and I don't like his footwork in the pocket and I think he tries to run too often.Im not ruling him out to be successful in the NFL but any team that drafts him higher than the third and expects him to be the starter early will be disappointed.

Not a good showing from this scouting service... 65% D

I don't mind eating crow when I'm wrong, and I'm wrong a lot of the time. I'll admit that Kaepernick is better than I thought he was going to be, however based on the 8 or 9 games he has started in his career (awesome sample size by the way) tell me what exactly was so off about my post, even when I stated I hadn't watched him extensively.

He is a big, tall guy with a strong arm. He still has an elongated throwing motion. His footwork isn't great and he does try to run a lot.

I also stated that any team that drafts him high and expects him to be the starter early in his career would be disappointed. He didn't start until a year and a half into his career. In today's NFL that is a lifetime.

I fail to see how any of those points have been disproven.

Now as a runner he has been extremely dangerous, arguably more dangerous than either RG3 or Cam Newton. I also underestimated his ability to consistently make accurate, touch throws.

So I apologise for not stating in the post that CK will be the best QB ever, has the biggest dick in the world, can get women pregnant by winking at them, can get men pregnant by shaking hands with them and single handedly stopped the world from ending by going back in time and telling the Mayans to stop being dicks. Kaepernick has been better than I imagined at this point in his career, but hey, go ahead and give my 65% and everyone else you have **** on in this thread's "grade" to all the NFL teams since they were so dumb to pass on the greatest player ever!

Cigaro
01-13-2013, 10:59 AM
Idk. Where would any qb be if they had mega tron as ther wr? Btw rob Chidzinski was considered a very good coach.

At qb it's nice to have the physical tools and athelticism. But if you don't have it between the ears, then you'll be inconsistent.

The bolded is the key part, Chud simply didn't perform very well this year. Most Panthers fans are glad he's in Cleveland now.

Leon Sandcastle
01-13-2013, 11:04 AM
Idk. Where would any qb be if they had mega tron as ther wr? Btw rob Chidzinski was considered a very good coach.

At qb it's nice to have the physical tools and athelticism. But if you don't have it between the ears, then you'll be inconsistent.

You don't win the JUCO Championship and the National Title game(coming back from 20 something against Alabama) and not have it between the ears.

It must be nice to have one of the better OL's in the NFL, the best defense and a top 5 HC. Probably allows you to play within yourself knowing you don't have to throw 3TD's to win every game.

SuperPacker
01-13-2013, 11:10 AM
Tying to argue whether CK or Cam is the better QB is stupid and pointless.

1) Their situations are completely different. All you can do is speculate that either one would be better or worse in different circumstances.

2) The sample size is way to small (for both of them).

3) It doesn't matter who is better now, it matters who is better in the future. And unfortunately no one knows the answer to this.

Rosebud
01-13-2013, 11:11 AM
Love to hear the argument?

I'm thinking it'd be the better performances passing the ball, with less talent to work with, against opposition more focused on stopping him.

Witten4HOF
01-13-2013, 11:16 AM
I'm a teacher as well, yet I didn't go around being a douchnozzle "grading" everyone who agreed or disagreed with me when Ray Rice stuck his impressive dong in the collective NFL and impregnated it. Learn how to be right and gloat. You probably haven't been there often before, hopefully you'll learn with time, padawan.

This made my day.

Babylon
01-13-2013, 11:17 AM
Let's hold off for one more week. We're not even sure Kapernick can beat Seattle.

vidae
01-13-2013, 11:22 AM
Let's hold off for one more week. We're not even sure Kapernick can beat Seattle.

But he'll be playing Atlanta next week.

AntoinCD
01-13-2013, 11:22 AM
Let's hold off for one more week. We're not even sure Kapernick can beat Seattle.

No!!! We have made our minds up. Kaepernick is the best QB in the league. Who needs more than 8 and a half games to make a decision

JohnCandy
01-13-2013, 11:26 AM
WOW

That is all you can say.

phlysac
01-13-2013, 11:55 AM
What brasho did certainly pushed some buttons and I can agree with those whom feel it was unnecessary but it's simple...

If you don't want to be accountable for your words, don't write them down. If you're correct occasionally, good for you, no need to brag. If you were completely wrong, accept it and move on. It's okay.

Accountability doesn't exist anymore, it seems.

scottyboy
01-13-2013, 11:57 AM
What brasho did certainly pushed some buttons and I can agree with those whom feel it was unnecessary but it's simple...

If you don't want to be accountable for your words, don't write them down. If you're correct occasionally, good for you, no need to brag. If you were completely wrong, accept it and move on. It's okay.

Accountability doesn't exist anymore, it seems.

oh. is that why it's taboo now to point out how incredibly wrong abaddon was for saying Alex smith was gonna be the next Eli?

oh. oopsies.

DBNYDP
01-13-2013, 12:02 PM
I was told growing up to act like you've been there.

San Diego Chicken
01-13-2013, 12:06 PM
It's kind of an unwritten rule here not to bump old threads on the draft board. We all have been wrong on prospects. There's no point to it other than to embarrass other posters. Even the brightest football minds are often wrong when it comes to the draft.

Cigaro
01-13-2013, 12:12 PM
hTOKJTRHMdw

Brent
01-13-2013, 12:16 PM
oh. is that why it's taboo now to point out how incredibly wrong abaddon was for saying Alex smith was gonna be the next Eli?

oh. oopsies.
Didn't you say Brian Leonard was going to be good?

Brothgar
01-13-2013, 12:52 PM
Didn't you say Brian Leonard was going to be good?

You can't call out Scotty for saying any Rutgers players are going to be good.

abaddon41_80
01-13-2013, 02:58 PM
oh. is that why it's taboo now to point out how incredibly wrong abaddon was for saying Alex smith was gonna be the next Eli?

oh. oopsies.

I also don't recall saying that

scottyboy
01-13-2013, 03:25 PM
Didn't you say Brian Leonard was going to be good?

And Ray Rice was a slow midget. It happens. It's know I hype all Rutgers players but you'll know the ones I'm actually serious about (ala McCourty's, Britt, Greene and not the Alex Silvestro's etc).

Leonard I missed on but I give myself a break there because he was the savior of the program, hype was deserved.

But if I went around and ragged on everyone who was saying Kenny Britt sucked or the McCourty's...or that Raymell Rice thread from years back, that'd be douchey.

Plus, forenci pulls the Brian Leonard card enough, so that's not really applicable. Stop defending your foolish niners compadres. Do what we did with #10 and leave him to rot and fend for himself when he embarrassed the rest of us

LonghornsLegend
01-13-2013, 03:36 PM
It's kind of an unwritten rule here not to bump old threads on the draft board. We all have been wrong on prospects. There's no point to it other than to embarrass other posters. Even the brightest football minds are often wrong when it comes to the draft.

Says who? It's annoying when it happens all the time but I actually enjoy the old threads getting bumped to see what I thought about a prospect and what other people did two. I could care less about the pissing match that goes on in between all of that about who was right and who was wrong. Everyone here should be smart enough to know even if you were absolutely right about one thing you were completely wrong about another, not a big deal at all and it happens all the time.


I enjoy reading back through these threads from before the draft, but somebody always gets their feelings hurt when it gets bumped and they were wrong. Who gives a ****. If you got every single draft prediction right you wouldn't be doing it from your computer at the house. It's fun to reflect back on some of these threads after you have some real games to validate some points. If people get too butt hurt about being wrong then just read the boards and don't post, or just do like njx does and don't have an opinion just critique other people for reading comprehension.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-13-2013, 04:24 PM
njx. get the **** out.

kalbears13
01-13-2013, 04:56 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/574/446/Posey_NoHighFive_original.gif

scottyboy
01-13-2013, 05:04 PM
njx, do you even opine?

holt_bruce81
01-13-2013, 06:01 PM
This is why I love some on this board. A player has one good game and some think he's the next Peyton Manning. Lol

Babylon
01-13-2013, 06:11 PM
This is why I love some on this board. A player has one good game and some think he's the next Peyton Manning. Lol

you guys seem to do well against the mobile QBs in the division. Seems it helps to have good ends that can get up the field.

Bulldogs
01-13-2013, 06:16 PM
This thread is HOF worthy imo.

G Mobile
01-13-2013, 06:32 PM
It's not that bad to go back and bump an old thread to read some old opinions and see how they turned out. Some playful jabbing is okay and some people will eat crow. Its a dick move however to go back and critique every post and gloat how great you are. Congrats, Kaepernick had a good game and ran all over a confused subpar defense. Calm down.

phlysac
01-13-2013, 07:00 PM
oh. is that why it's taboo now to point out how incredibly wrong abaddon was for saying Alex smith was gonna be the next Eli?

oh. oopsies.

Why oopsies? Why taboo? If a person isn't comfortable enough in their own skin to accept criticism when wrong, they shouldn't be as willing to put their words on record.

But this also isn't about hyperbole or about misrepresentation. It's about utilizing direct quotes to provide substance.

VAfy-ya
01-13-2013, 08:54 PM
Why oopsies? Why taboo? If a person isn't comfortable enough in their own skin to accept criticism when wrong, they shouldn't be as willing to put their words on record.

But this also isn't about hyperbole or about misrepresentation. It's about utilizing direct quotes to provide substance.

Its juvenile and doesn't endear anyone to his immature plight of "being called out". I had posters call me clueless when I said CK was just as good, if not better than Cam. I remember one poster said CK would fail because of the "lack of arch" on his throws and I just laughed at his post. Am I here, grave-digging old threads though? No. You take solace in the fact that you knew you were right and keep it moving. You don't wait for one great game, then get all clairvoyant and think now is the time show the world I'm a savant. Who goes all emo over a discussion about prospects on a draft forum?

Brothgar
01-13-2013, 09:18 PM
I'm confused of why at this point people are ready to put CK over Cam. Don't get me wrong I like CK but winning a playoff game doesn't make one QB better than another nor does having a winning season or at least not on its own. Specially since he's only started 9 games. Have we already forgotten what Cam was doing through 9 games?

FUNBUNCHER
01-13-2013, 10:49 PM
I don't think CK is better than Cam, but I do believe they are very similar talents. Game-changing type players.

Brent
01-13-2013, 10:53 PM
I'm confused of why at this point people are ready to put CK over Cam. Don't get me wrong I like CK but winning a playoff game doesn't make one QB better than another nor does having a winning season or at least not on its own. Specially since he's only started 9 games. Have we already forgotten what Cam was doing through 9 games?
Ugh, but that was so 3 weeks ago.

G Mobile
01-13-2013, 10:54 PM
Kaep just tore up GB, but I'd still probably take Cam over him currently. I know he isn't the new thing anymore but Cam is still pretty damn good.

49erNation85
01-13-2013, 11:01 PM
What happens if Ck27 (kaepernick ) wins the super bowl? Will you take him over Cam?I believe in longer future Colin is better.

TitanHope
01-13-2013, 11:18 PM
I would agree, but as a teacher, it is in my nature to give out grades.

Nature? I, uh, don't think that's how that works.

Besides, that'd be like getting stabbed, and the guy going, "It's ok. I'm a surgeon. It's in my nature to cut people open."

Lets see on the big stage. Kaepernick showed poise and just shredded Green Bay.

I've liked Kaepernick coming out. Cam is a pre-Madonna and hangs his head when things go wrong. Kaepernick first drive throws a pick 6. Came back pretty well.

http://www.thehomeplanet.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Cas-fourth-wall.gif

What I wanna know is... Who has better pocket presents?

VAfy-ya
01-13-2013, 11:20 PM
Kaep just tore up GB, but I'd still probably take Cam over him currently. I know he isn't the new thing anymore but Cam is still pretty damn good.

I always thought CK was the better QB. Even before the Niners selected him. I didn't think enough ppl really grasped what he did in college, even if it was against WAC competition. And I still feel he's better but Cam really opened my eyes alot his rookie year. I have no problem with ppl siding with Cam because he does have less talent around him to work with. Its not a open and shut case, either way. And both are still a work in progress.

WCH
01-13-2013, 11:21 PM
Kaep just tore up GB, but I'd still probably take Cam over him currently. I know he isn't the new thing anymore but Cam is still pretty damn good.

I know it was early last season, and last season is last years bird ****, but Cam Newton looked like the second coming of Johnny Unitas against GB.

Lets just pump the brakes a bit when we're talking about these young QBs.

Scott Wright
01-13-2013, 11:23 PM
Instead of pointing fingers or gloating let's examine why Kaepernick may have been underrated coming out of college. Of course we have to cite the obligatory "It's Only One Game" factor...

Personally, I was concerned about the adjustment from the Pistol Offense to a pro style system. I don't think anyone could deny the incredible physical tools, but the reason I had Kaepernick graded as a third rounder is because I felt he was a project. Also, to take a quarterback as early as Kaepernick went there is usually pressure to play them even if they aren't ready. Kaepernick obviously went into a good situation with a strong team and outstanding quarterback coach and it sure seems to be working out, but what if he had been selected by the Oakland Raiders?

I have a question for everyone: Do you think if Kaepernick was in the 2013 NFL Draft he would be a more highly-regarded pro prospect because there are more mobile quarterbacks having success in the league now than there were a couple of years ago? I absolutely do.

Brothgar
01-13-2013, 11:28 PM
What happens if Ck27 (kaepernick ) wins the super bowl? Will you take him over Cam?I believe in longer future Colin is better.

Super Bowls aren't an individual statistic. It is a team statistic. I've never prescribed to the notion that being a super bowl winning qb instantly makes you a better QB. Are they both very good QBs yes. But with all things equal I'm still taking Cam. Also even if Kaepernick ends up being a better QB than Cam it doesn't mean that he was the better prospect which was what was being discussed at the time and was proven by the fact it took this long for him to supplant Alex Smith as the starting QB. Harbaugh and staff deserve a ton of credit for the development and scheme of these QBs that also really helped in their success.

FUNBUNCHER
01-13-2013, 11:37 PM
Both are superlative talents. You aren't getting the cheap end if your team is forced to take one player over the other.
To answer Scott's question, if Kaepernick was in the 2012 draft after his senior season at Nevada, he'd probably be a Brown/Redskin.

VAfy-ya
01-13-2013, 11:47 PM
Instead of pointing fingers or gloating let's examine why Kaepernick may have been underrated coming out of college. Of course we have to cite the obligatory "It's Only One Game" factor...

Personally, I was concerned about the adjustment from the Pistol Offense to a pro style system. I don't think anyone could deny the incredible physical tools, but the reason I had Kaepernick graded as a third rounder is because I felt he was a project. Also, to take a quarterback as early as Kaepernick went there is usually pressure to play them even if they aren't ready. Kaepernick obviously went into a good situation with a strong team and outstanding quarterback coach and it sure seems to be working out, but what if he had been selected by the Oakland Raiders?

I have a question for everyone: Do you think if Kaepernick was in the 2013 NFL Draft he would be a more highly-regarded pro prospect because there are more mobile quarterbacks having success in the league now than there were a couple of years ago? I absolutely do.

Well I for one thought CK was a better natural thrower. Alot of ppl got caught up with his delivery but I thought he was much further along as a pocket passer than Cam. I also thought CK placed balls into tighter windows than Cam did. I didn't recall seeing many NFL-like throws from Cam out of that Auburn spread. I saw CK place some absolute lasers with poise and accuracy into spots where only his WRs(who got little separation) could. Didn't think either was ready to start from Day 1, so I was obviously wrong in that regard. I knew both were raw and needed to be coached up. I thought CK being thrown into the frey early would have been terrible for him. Same for Cam. They both had the physical tools but needed to develop and enhanced some basic fundamentals of playing the position at the pro level. Drops and footwork, taking snaps from center, release points, things of that nature. And especially in a lockout-shorten off-season, I felt that was too much to ask out of either of them so early into their development.

descendency
01-14-2013, 12:48 AM
I'm confused of why at this point people are ready to put CK over Cam. Don't get me wrong I like CK but winning a playoff game doesn't make one QB better than another nor does having a winning season or at least not on its own. Specially since he's only started 9 games. Have we already forgotten what Cam was doing through 9 games?

CK has tons of athleticism and a good arm, but I guarantee you that the Panthers are not crying to trade.

Jim Harbaugh has a lot to do with the success of CK. If he had Cam, I would fear for the NFL.

AntoinCD
01-14-2013, 05:36 AM
I think what Scott has said is a big thing in this debate. Had Kaepernick went somewhere like Oakland and been asked to star from day one as a pure drop back passer do people believe he would be having the same success?

One of the big knocks on CK was he was a project. I don't think anyone doubted he had the potential. In SF, he was afforded the luxury of sitting for a year and a half with a few specific packages tailored to suit him as a runner first and foremost. Also bear in mind that there was no real pressure for Kaepernick to start in SF. Alex Smith was having possibly his best year ever until getting hurt. If CK doesn't go off against the Bears then it's simply a case of him not being ready and Smith goes back in.

He landed in an ideal spot for him to fit his strengths while also giving him time to work on his weaknesses.

LonghornsLegend
01-14-2013, 07:33 AM
I think what Scott has said is a big thing in this debate. Had Kaepernick went somewhere like Oakland and been asked to star from day one as a pure drop back passer do people believe he would be having the same success?

One of the big knocks on CK was he was a project. I don't think anyone doubted he had the potential. In SF, he was afforded the luxury of sitting for a year and a half with a few specific packages tailored to suit him as a runner first and foremost. Also bear in mind that there was no real pressure for Kaepernick to start in SF. Alex Smith was having possibly his best year ever until getting hurt. If CK doesn't go off against the Bears then it's simply a case of him not being ready and Smith goes back in.

He landed in an ideal spot for him to fit his strengths while also giving him time to work on his weaknesses.


This was the reason I even liked him to begin with. I had serious doubts about him pre-draft but I felt he needed time, and development to succeed. He had the perfect storm in that he had a great QB coach, a great organization, and time to sit and learn. Once I saw the fit after the draft I was sold personally, but had he gone to Oakland like you said it would have been completely different for me.


I have no doubt situation played a huge role in his success, but it probably did for Aaron Rodgers too. You can wonder how he'd have turned out if he went to Oakland also.

VAfy-ya
01-14-2013, 07:53 AM
I think what Scott has said is a big thing in this debate. Had Kaepernick went somewhere like Oakland and been asked to star from day one as a pure drop back passer do people believe he would be having the same success?

One of the big knocks on CK was he was a project. I don't think anyone doubted he had the potential. In SF, he was afforded the luxury of sitting for a year and a half with a few specific packages tailored to suit him as a runner first and foremost. Also bear in mind that there was no real pressure for Kaepernick to start in SF. Alex Smith was having possibly his best year ever until getting hurt. If CK doesn't go off against the Bears then it's simply a case of him not being ready and Smith goes back in.

He landed in an ideal spot for him to fit his strengths while also giving him time to work on his weaknesses.

Excellent analysis. Could not have said it better.

AntoinCD
01-14-2013, 07:57 AM
This was the reason I even liked him to begin with. I had serious doubts about him pre-draft but I felt he needed time, and development to succeed. He had the perfect storm in that he had a great QB coach, a great organization, and time to sit and learn. Once I saw the fit after the draft I was sold personally, but had he gone to Oakland like you said it would have been completely different for me.


I have no doubt situation played a huge role in his success, but it probably did for Aaron Rodgers too. You can wonder how he'd have turned out if he went to Oakland also.

Agreed. Situation plas a huge role in a player's success as a pro. There really aren't that many guys who can go into any and all situations and automatically be a success. That's why guys bust all the time. It's not necessarily that they are bad players, more because they either go somewhere that isn't a good fit, somewhere that doesn't help them develop, or just somewhere that doesn't have a good culture or preach work ethic and guys get lazy.

That's why for people who post on this board and others, along with draftniks who run websites, even to guys like Kiper, McShay and Mayock it is good to evaluate players as we see them. But nobody outside of specific organisations can truely determine what any specific player may do when drafted. That's why it's also not exactly a fair thing to criticise guys who post things unless they are clearly false since we don't get the full thing. We can't interview all the players, can' get them to do chalkboard sessions, can't get first hand accounts from coaches etc. What we do we do for enjoyment, fun, some guys may do it for money etc but really nobody on this board can make a fully informed report on players on what their future will hold

CollegeFan
01-15-2013, 01:24 AM
Personally I would find it very interesting if the Superbowl came down to New School QB vs. Old School QB.....the prime example of a pocket passer in Brady and what would have to now (after his 180+ running performance) be the prime example of today's modern "read option" New School duel threat QB in Kaepernick. Would be a bit ironic no? Who wins? I go with the experience in Brady...but it would make for an intriguing rematch and curious clash of "New Age" vs "Traditional"....just a thought

Menardo75
01-15-2013, 02:07 AM
What happens if Ck27 (kaepernick ) wins the super bowl? Will you take him over Cam?I believe in longer future Colin is better.

Why the hell are you calling him CK27?

cajuncorey
01-15-2013, 01:12 PM
I once stated kaepernick's genetics are everybit as impressive as cam newtons. the emergence of the folkloric pistol formation as seen in the NCAA and CIS becoming utalized by nfl teams with a dual threat QB has made them that much more impressive.

CollegeFan
01-15-2013, 01:14 PM
New age NFL QB's...no more 11 on 10 football

Brothgar
01-15-2013, 04:28 PM
I question weather or not the Run Read Option will survive in the NFL. On one hand there are tuns of advantages to teams who can find an athletic QB. On the other hand it vastly increases the likelihood of getting your QB injured also it is new which is usually disturbing to me because is it going to get figured out?

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
01-15-2013, 05:40 PM
I question weather or not the Run Read Option will survive in the NFL. On one hand there are tuns of advantages to teams who can find an athletic QB. On the other hand it vastly increases the likelihood of getting your QB injured also it is new which is usually disturbing to me because is it going to get figured out?

Guys like Kaepernick and Newton are no small dudes they are big boys.

Babylon
01-15-2013, 05:54 PM
Guys like Kaepernick and Newton are no small dudes they are big boys.

It'll be interesting to see how teams adjust to the read option. As of now it's pretty much an NFC thing and mainly the NFC west with Wilson and Kaepernick. Teams with good ends are going to have the best chance of slowing down the QB keepers. The Rams with Chris Long and Robert Quinn are 2-1-1 against the two QBs i mentioned

scottyboy
01-15-2013, 09:18 PM
it'll work, but teams will adjust. just like they did the wildcat. and spread/GB's unstoppable offense. teams will adjust until the new trend comes along

FUNBUNCHER
01-15-2013, 09:47 PM
If you don't run the read option on every single offensive snap, teams are never going to be able to lock into what the offense is doing and figure it out.

It's like the run versus the pass. If a team passes the ball on every single down, eventually their success rate per pass is going to drop. Or if a team runs on every down it won't be long before they face an 11 man D in the box.

I think guys like Newton and CK are better suited to run the read option because they have the bodies to absorb the hits. Guys like RG3 and Russell Wilson don't long term.

Because of the starting QB's value to any offense, I think it's foolhardy to have a QB run 120+ rushing attempts in a season like Griffin had.

But no, as a mix of plays in the basic offensive gameplan, the read option with the right QB is a devastating weapon. If the 49ers win the SB, the read option is going to be a part of NFL offenses for years to come.

The QB can either hand off to the RB, keep the ball himself and run it, or pull up and throw. That's too much to handle for any D that's reading its keys.

niel89
01-16-2013, 02:57 AM
I'll believe it when I see it. I've heard of way too many guys that will revolutionize the position and then it didn't add up to much. Granted these recent guys probably have more talent than other past players.

I think the read option stuff is valuable early in a QB development to keep the defense honest and to get an advantage in the passing game, but as a QB develops into a more advanced passer QB runs just aren't worth the risk. Its great to use as a support for a young guy but I doubt any high level passing QB will be running the ball on anything designed.

Zone reads were very successful for Griffin this year and had a major impact on how defenses could defend the running game and defend the pass. It caused defenses to hesitate for just a moment and Morris would get up field and WRs would blow past guys. It was a major help for Griffin to acclimate to the NFL, but the hits added up and he missed time and now has a major injury. I doubt he will be running like he was this year in the future. Guys like Rodgers or Luck could run some designed stuff, but they are just too valuable and are advanced enough as passers to risk/need designed runs.

Just pump the brakes a little bit on the future of the QB runs. Let's let defenses adjust next year and see if it survives. Kaepernick just killed a defense that was just lost and ran all over them. I can't see these offensive plays proliferate through the NFL when QBs that are agile enough runners and quality passers are rare & hard to find.

VAfy-ya
01-16-2013, 12:40 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. I've heard of way too many guys that will revolutionize the position and then it didn't add up to much. Granted these recent guys probably have more talent than other past players.

I think the read option stuff is valuable early in a QB development to keep the defense honest and to get an advantage in the passing game, but as a QB develops into a more advanced passer QB runs just aren't worth the risk. Its great to use as a support for a young guy but I doubt any high level passing QB will be running the ball on anything designed.

Zone reads were very successful for Griffin this year and had a major impact on how defenses could defend the running game and defend the pass. It caused defenses to hesitate for just a moment and Morris would get up field and WRs would blow past guys. It was a major help for Griffin to acclimate to the NFL, but the hits added up and he missed time and now has a major injury. I doubt he will be running like he was this year in the future. Guys like Rodgers or Luck could run some designed stuff, but they are just too valuable and are advanced enough as passers to risk/need designed runs.

Just pump the brakes a little bit on the future of the QB runs. Let's let defenses adjust next year and see if it survives. Kaepernick just killed a defense that was just lost and ran all over them. I can't see these offensive plays proliferate through the NFL when QBs that are agile enough runners and quality passers are rare & hard to find.

I just made a post similar to this in the 49ers sub-forum. Your right, it could never be a focal part of a NFL offense over a extended period of time. Its just not sustsinable as the accumulation of hits and wear and tear mount on your QB, year after year. Plus guys like Cam and CK don't grow on trees. But sprinkled into various gameplans, depending on the opponent, it is sustainable and gives a added dimension that will be hard on any defense to gameplan for it. And as these guys develop as pocket passers, it gets even harder to defend because now you can fake the pistol and drop back and continually gashed teams through the air. Its more than just a gimmick. Just needs to right QB to make it viable option to augment a gameplan, long-term.

LonghornsLegend
01-16-2013, 01:28 PM
It'll be interesting to see how teams adjust to the read option. As of now it's pretty much an NFC thing and mainly the NFC west with Wilson and Kaepernick. Teams with good ends are going to have the best chance of slowing down the QB keepers. The Rams with Chris Long and Robert Quinn are 2-1-1 against the two QBs i mentioned

How? From everything I've seen the read option renders the DE useless most plays because everything dictates how they react to the play. Most of those plays are predicated off of doing the opposite, so if you have those guys crash down on the RB everytime the QB will pull it and the DE would never catch up, if you had the DE read the QB everytime it would help contain but they would never be in on the run play.


That's not to say there isn't a defense for it, but it seems like the first read is the DE and there just isn't much you can do about it.

Babylon
01-16-2013, 01:34 PM
How? From everything I've seen the read option renders the DE useless most plays because everything dictates how they react to the play. Most of those plays are predicated off of doing the opposite, so if you have those guys crash down on the RB everytime the QB will pull it and the DE would never catch up, if you had the DE read the QB everytime it would help contain but they would never be in on the run play.


That's not to say there isn't a defense for it, but it seems like the first read is the DE and there just isn't much you can do about it.

Because Ware was useless against Griffin doesn't mean everyone is. I can only go off how the Rams played against Wilson and Kaepernick, their ends didn't bite on the run fake and stayed wide. The Rams had 6 sacks in their last game against Seattle.

I get less hung up on schemes and gimmics and more interested in talent. I think at the end of the day talent wins.

LonghornsLegend
01-16-2013, 01:40 PM
Because Ware was useless against Griffin doesn't mean everyone is. I can only go off how the Rams played against Wilson and Kaepernick, their ends didn't bite on the run fake and stayed wide. The Rams had 6 sacks in their last game against Seattle.

I get less hung up on schemes and gimmics and more interested in talent. I think at the end of the day talent wins.

I was commenting on more Ends then Ware because last I checked the read option worked against a ton of teams this year not just Dallas. Now I haven't seen every game of Kaep, Wilson, and RGIII, but it seemed to me that was the case in all the games I saw. I didn't see too many plays where the DE actually made a play on the ball in the read option, not that the DE's didn't make any plays all game. I just saw a bunch of times the QB read the DE and he was left chasing somebody a step too late everytime.

AntoinCD
01-16-2013, 01:52 PM
How? From everything I've seen the read option renders the DE useless most plays because everything dictates how they react to the play. Most of those plays are predicated off of doing the opposite, so if you have those guys crash down on the RB everytime the QB will pull it and the DE would never catch up, if you had the DE read the QB everytime it would help contain but they would never be in on the run play.


That's not to say there isn't a defense for it, but it seems like the first read is the DE and there just isn't much you can do about it.

The most obvious way of defnding the read option is playing with gap discipline. It's not sexy and will give up some yards but you are basically not going to give up huge plays as long a stackles aren't missed.

If the play side end stays home and doesn't crash on the back then the RB takes the carry. However, on a lot of "pure" RB handoffs up the middle offenses elect not to block the end to have more numbers inside and at the second level.

Another way to defend it is a lot more risky and really relies on your ability to gain penetration. If you can blitz through the interior of the line it blows the RB handoff play up and allows the end to focus on the QB. However if you don't get there then it can backfire with things like play action.

The Patriots defended Kaepernick the first way and really weren't beaten by the running game. If you take away Dashon Goldson's fake punt the 49ers had 149 yards off 38 carries. That's less than 4 yards a run. However the big problem came off big plays in the passing game.

This is where the evolution of this scheme will go. There is going to be times when the run game is shut down and the QB will need to be able to throw out of "regular" formations. I don't believe there are enough athletes who can throw well enough to see this offense really take off.

YAYareaRB
01-16-2013, 01:58 PM
As long as you have a threatening and true running game, the options will be a useful tool. Not something to base your Playbook around but a wrinkle to keep defenses honest. The read option is not brand new so i don't anticipate many adjustments being made like when the wildcat came around.. sometimes you just don't have the players to defend it(athleticism, technique, discipline).

I think people who are challenging whether the read option can remain effective in the NFL are the ones that have convinced themselves that things that work at the college level should not, would not and could not work at the next level.

On a side note, I do understand the hits that could pile up and slow guys down. If I was an OC in the NFL I wouldn't run it more than 7-8 times a game.

Babylon
01-16-2013, 02:11 PM
As long as you have a threatening and true running game, the options will be a useful tool. Not something to base your Playbook around but a wrinkle to keep defenses honest. The read option is not brand new so i don't anticipate many adjustments being made like when the wildcat came around.. sometimes you just don't have the players to defend it(athleticism, technique, discipline).

I think people who are challenging whether the read option can remain effective in the NFL are the ones that have convinced themselves that things that work at the college level should not, would not and could not work at the next level.

On a side note, I do understand the hits that could pile up and slow guys down. If I was an OC in the NFL I wouldn't run it more than 7-8 times a game.

Good point there on having a strong inside running game to begin with really makes the option work.

To what degree anything works just depends on who's running it.

Iamcanadian
01-16-2013, 02:56 PM
I think it will prove to be a fad, RG111 is already injured and not likey to be able to plant his throwing foot equally well upon his return. Teams will start to go after Kaepernick and Wilson and try to damage their legs ASAP. How long will their careers last, not very long I think?
The NFL fact has always been, run your QB at your own risk, it is quite another to put your QB at risk quite a bit in a game and I just don't see them surviving very long. A couple of crippling injuries, and nobody will want to try it again.

Caulibflower
01-17-2013, 01:46 PM
I don't know that it's a fad. The key term is read option. It's an option to run, not a prerogative. It's a running back's running play first - the QB reads the defensive end and if he overplays the handoff, the QB takes 5 yards (or more, or less, or whatever the situation allows). The problem is when quarterbacks like RGIII think of the plays as a 50/50 decision every time; what RGIII needs to learn is to let Alfred Morris be Washington's primary runner, and then use his own running ability when the opportunity is given to him. Again, understanding when those opportunities are available is the "read" part of the read option. RGIII thinks "I can make this play!" when he should be thinking, "Is the defense telling me I should run?"

That's what's going to extend these quarterback's careers and make the read option a viable NFL scheme - quarterbacks who know it's supposed to be plan B for them to take the ball and run. It should keep defenses honest and make plan A - the running back taking a handoff - more effective. For all their ability, quarterbacks who run the read option just need to keep in mind that they are playing a different position than the player they're handing off to and have different responsibilities. Clearly, if a player like RGIII plays quarterback like a tall running back with a big arm, he's opening himself up to a lot of punishment he doesn't need to take. The running back needs to take the punishment; the quarterback should only keep if he has the self-control to slide or get down before he's gotten every possible yard. i.e., the quarterback should only keep if, in reading the play, he sees that the defense has given him something in its effort to stop plan A - the running back.

VAfy-ya
01-18-2013, 08:57 AM
I don't know that it's a fad. The key term is read option. It's an option to run, not a prerogative. It's a running back's running play first - the QB reads the defensive end and if he overplays the handoff, the QB takes 5 yards (or more, or less, or whatever the situation allows). The problem is when quarterbacks like RGIII think of the plays as a 50/50 decision every time; what RGIII needs to learn is to let Alfred Morris be Washington's primary runner, and then use his own running ability when the opportunity is given to him. Again, understanding when those opportunities are available is the "read" part of the read option. RGIII thinks "I can make this play!" when he should be thinking, "Is the defense telling me I should run?"

That's what's going to extend these quarterback's careers and make the read option a viable NFL scheme - quarterbacks who know it's supposed to be plan B for them to take the ball and run. It should keep defenses honest and make plan A - the running back taking a handoff - more effective. For all their ability, quarterbacks who run the read option just need to keep in mind that they are playing a different position than the player they're handing off to and have different responsibilities. Clearly, if a player like RGIII plays quarterback like a tall running back with a big arm, he's opening himself up to a lot of punishment he doesn't need to take. The running back needs to take the punishment; the quarterback should only keep if he has the self-control to slide or get down before he's gotten every possible yard. i.e., the quarterback should only keep if, in reading the play, he sees that the defense has given him something in its effort to stop plan A - the running back.

This. If your reading your keys correctly, you won't expose yourself any more than a typical QB scramble. I still say its not ideal to for it be a focal part of your gameplan over a long period of time. But how many big hits did CK take from the Packers defense? If your reading the ends like your supposed to, the QB shouldn't even be getting touched.

Too many look at RG3 and say it won't last. RG3 was reckless with it. I see Wilson and CK sliding even on minimal gains, not fighting for extra yards and going out of bounds. Their smarter with it than RG3. Plus in CK's case, he's 6'4, 230 lbs. He's built like a LB, not a QB. Guys like him and Cam can absorb hits that Wilson and RG3 can't.

Iamcanadian
01-18-2013, 01:16 PM
I don't know that it's a fad. The key term is read option. It's an option to run, not a prerogative. It's a running back's running play first - the QB reads the defensive end and if he overplays the handoff, the QB takes 5 yards (or more, or less, or whatever the situation allows). The problem is when quarterbacks like RGIII think of the plays as a 50/50 decision every time; what RGIII needs to learn is to let Alfred Morris be Washington's primary runner, and then use his own running ability when the opportunity is given to him. Again, understanding when those opportunities are available is the "read" part of the read option. RGIII thinks "I can make this play!" when he should be thinking, "Is the defense telling me I should run?"

That's what's going to extend these quarterback's careers and make the read option a viable NFL scheme - quarterbacks who know it's supposed to be plan B for them to take the ball and run. It should keep defenses honest and make plan A - the running back taking a handoff - more effective. For all their ability, quarterbacks who run the read option just need to keep in mind that they are playing a different position than the player they're handing off to and have different responsibilities. Clearly, if a player like RGIII plays quarterback like a tall running back with a big arm, he's opening himself up to a lot of punishment he doesn't need to take. The running back needs to take the punishment; the quarterback should only keep if he has the self-control to slide or get down before he's gotten every possible yard. i.e., the quarterback should only keep if, in reading the play, he sees that the defense has given him something in its effort to stop plan A - the running back.

Unfortunately, like RG111, they are going to take some real hits sooner or later and the injuries will follow. Defenses will catch up a little at a time and really lay the body on these running QB's even if it means the odd penalty.
There is a reason why pro football has always been reluctant to have QB's who can run the ball, it is injuries. RB's have a 5 year shelf life because teams go after them and have real opportunities to lay the body on them and that is what is going to happen to Kaepernick and Wilson. I predict very short careers for these 3 QB's.

YAYareaRB
01-18-2013, 03:08 PM
Seahawks and Niners unite Lol

Armchair Scout
01-18-2013, 09:07 PM
I think Kaepernick and Wilson can handle the read-option without getting hurt. Wilson is short and stockily built by QB standards. I think he can take a hit and he doesn't seem like the kind of player who exposes himself to too many big hits. Kaepernick is a big guy whose running style doesn't expose him to a lot of hits, as he tends to run out of bounds. RG3 has issues because he tries to juke guys and make plays like a running back. Sure, I expect Kaepernick to run less read-option late in his career, but I don't think he is necessarily going to be injury-prone. With SF's offensive line and running game, he should take fewer hits than the average QB, even if he does run the zone-read.

batsandgats
01-22-2013, 05:18 PM
what about when the gameplan becomes hit the qb every option play regardless if he carries it or not like a few games Tebow had last season?

SuperPacker
01-22-2013, 05:49 PM
My thoughts on Kaepernick?

Big nose, annoying voice, stupid tattoos. 2/10. Would not bang.

domingo
01-23-2013, 10:08 PM
My thoughts on Kaepernick?

Big nose, annoying voice, stupid tattoos. 2/10. Would not bang.

You forgot "Kicker of Packer's ass".

Now you know how we felt when Farve came on the scene.

StudentBodyLeft
01-23-2013, 11:25 PM
This. If your reading your keys correctly, you won't expose yourself any more than a typical QB scramble. I still say its not ideal to for it be a focal part of your gameplan over a long period of time. But how many big hits did CK take from the Packers defense? If your reading the ends like your supposed to, the QB shouldn't even be getting touched.

Too many look at RG3 and say it won't last. RG3 was reckless with it. I see Wilson and CK sliding even on minimal gains, not fighting for extra yards and going out of bounds. Their smarter with it than RG3. Plus in CK's case, he's 6'4, 230 lbs. He's built like a LB, not a QB. Guys like him and Cam can absorb hits that Wilson and RG3 can't.

There is also the possibility that the defense can crash the DE every single time on purpose. This forces the QB to run it, just by mandate of the read option. More QB runs equals more QB exposures. Maybe defenses will start doing this to force the offense to beat them with QB instead of RB, which I would rather do with Washington (Morris more physical runner than Griffin).

That's the thing with this offense. It's reactionary to what the defense does, so the defense can force your hand and dictate what you do. This isn't necessarily bad, but the defense can tilt things in their favor by dictating which matchup is more advantageous to them.

StudentBodyLeft
01-23-2013, 11:27 PM
I think Kaepernick and Wilson can handle the read-option without getting hurt. Wilson is short and stockily built by QB standards. I think he can take a hit and he doesn't seem like the kind of player who exposes himself to too many big hits. Kaepernick is a big guy whose running style doesn't expose him to a lot of hits, as he tends to run out of bounds. RG3 has issues because he tries to juke guys and make plays like a running back. Sure, I expect Kaepernick to run less read-option late in his career, but I don't think he is necessarily going to be injury-prone. With SF's offensive line and running game, he should take fewer hits than the average QB, even if he does run the zone-read.

Even Tim Tebow had to miss time because of a rib injury this year. These guys might look tough enough to withstand getting broken in half, but they are most likely not conditioned for the little nicks and cuts that RBs and deal with every week. You also have to factor in how minor injuries affect throwing motions, footwork, mobility in the pocket, etc.

FUNBUNCHER
01-23-2013, 11:54 PM
Don't forget both RG3's injuries came because he chose NOT to slide and instead either tried to turn the corner on pursuit along the sideline, or pick up yards cutting back into the open field.

If a QB runs the zone read believing they can pick up 60+ yards rushing on every carry, that QB is going to get smashed at some point.

For a cerebral QB, Griffin still has a lot to learn about running 'his' offense from Kaepernick and Wilson.

For the right QBs, running the zone read isn't going anywhere since it's only about 20% of the offense.

CK is going to be running the zone read as long as he's the starting QB under Harbaugh, and the less frequently it's run makes it harder to defend.

VAfy-ya
01-24-2013, 12:21 AM
Don't forget both RG3's injuries came because he chose NOT to slide and instead either tried to turn the corner on pursuit along the sideline, or pick up yards cutting back into the open field.

If a QB runs the zone read believing they can pick up 60+ yards rushing on every carry, that QB is going to get smashed at some point.

For a cerebral QB, Griffin still has a lot to learn about running 'his' offense from Kaepernick and Wilson.

For the right QBs, running the zone read isn't going anywhere since it's only about 20% of the offense.

CK is going to be running the zone read as long as he's the starting QB under Harbaugh, and the less frequently it's run makes it harder to defend.

Exactly....excellent post. And just to piggy-back off that. You can shift out of the pistol and toy with defenses. You can shift into a pistol formation from a regular set, like I-Formation and now you got the defense adjusting their spilts, scrambling to get guys into place, and then you hike the ball. Its just the added element of having to defend it...worrying about it EVERY time the offense breaks the huddle, that makes it tough on defenses. Becuase all it takes is one wrong alignment or one blown assignment and its a huge gain or a big first down. And we're not even talking about the passing elements you can run off on it to really add a different element of attack.

Iamcanadian
01-24-2013, 10:27 AM
Exactly....excellent post. And just to piggy-back off that. You can shift out of the pistol and toy with defenses. You can shift into a pistol formation from a regular set, like I-Formation and now you got the defense adjusting their spilts, scrambling to get guys into place, and then you hike the ball. Its just the added element of having to defend it...worrying about it EVERY time the offense breaks the huddle, that makes it tough on defenses. Becuase all it takes is one wrong alignment or one blown assignment and its a huge gain or a big first down. And we're not even talking about the passing elements you can run off on it to really add a different element of attack.

Sure, it's new to the NFL and in its early stages, they will have trouble adjusting to it like defenses did for every new offense that came to the NFL. However, make no mistake, NFL defenses will eventually catch up to the pistol. In the meantime, NFL defensive coordinators know 1 thing, hit the QB hard and he may be out of the game. The QB's can do great things in the pistol but every time they take off, there is a huge risk that their careers may come to a halt, Teams won't care if they get penalized occasionally, they are going to attack the QB and try to injury him and sooner or later, they catch him going the wrong way. I saw CK fail to slide against Green Bay and got caught between 2 defenders, he survived but will he the next time.

FUNBUNCHER
01-24-2013, 10:39 AM
The zone read/read option is going to be like running play action once a team has established its running game. I don't see how LBs and safeties aren't going to bite forward at least a step which is all the QB wants.

Defensive players don't have time to think on a football field, the game happens in milliseconds where guys have to react and not waste time diagnosing what's happening in front of them.

If the OLB/DE assumes CK is going to run on every outside zone read handoff, RBs like Frank Gore are going to rush for 200+ yards.

Even Aaron Rodgers said it might take 10(!!) years for NFL defenses to figure out the read option, which IMO means no one is ever going to really lock into how to stop it.

When you only run read option 1/5 of your total offensive snaps, the advantage goes to the offense.

AntoinCD
01-24-2013, 10:42 AM
The zone read/read option is going to be like running play action once a team has established its running game. I don't see how LBs and safeties aren't going to bite forward at least a step which is all the QB wants.

Defensive players don't have time to think on a football field, the game happens in milliseconds where guys have to react and not waste time diagnosing what's happening in front of them.

If the OLB/DE assumes CK is going to run on every outside zone read handoff, RBs like Frank Gore are going to rush for 200+ yards.

Even Aaron Rodgers said it might take 10(!!) years for NFL defenses to figure out the read option, which IMO means no one is ever going to really lock into how to stop it.

When you only run read option 1/5 of your total offensive snaps, the advantage goes to the offense.

There is still a pretty big risk to it though. If this offense doesn't slow down every defensive cooridnator will teach their edge guys to hit the QB. He's not a QB anymore as he becomes either a runner or a blocker. There is a way around every offensive playcall and a way around every defensive play call. The more common the read option becomes the easier it will be to defend

Iamcanadian
01-24-2013, 10:55 AM
The zone read/read option is going to be like running play action once a team has established its running game. I don't see how LBs and safeties aren't going to bite forward at least a step which is all the QB wants.

Defensive players don't have time to think on a football field, the game happens in milliseconds where guys have to react and not waste time diagnosing what's happening in front of them.

Players spend endless hours watching tape every practice and even on their own. Right now they aren't used to the pistol so recognition comes more slowly to them in a game, but given time they'll adjust and react far quicker to the pistol.

I remember when New England and Pittsburgh were the only teams to play a 3-4 defense and both team's defenses dominated in games. Today, so many teams play a 3-4 that offenses attack it easily, so much so, that NE switched to a 4-3.

More and more teams will run a pistol as the NFL is definitely a copy cat league and defenses will see it a lot, believe me they'll adjust, but most important, even now, they will go after the QB every time he runs the ball.

If the OLB/DE assumes CK is going to run on every outside zone read handoff, RBs like Frank Gore are going to rush for 200+ yards.

Even Aaron Rodgers said it might take 10(!!) years for NFL defenses to figure out the read option, which IMO means no one is ever going to really lock into how to stop it.

When you only run read option 1/5 of your total offensive snaps, the advantage goes to the offense.

My guess, if either Wilson or CK gets seriously hurt, teams may well shy away from running the offense a whole lot.
Sure, it looks great today but if RG111 is only a shell of his former self, what good was it really, for Washington.

brasho
01-27-2013, 10:00 AM
Instead of pointing fingers or gloating let's examine why Kaepernick may have been underrated coming out of college. Of course we have to cite the obligatory "It's Only One Game" factor...

Personally, I was concerned about the adjustment from the Pistol Offense to a pro style system. I don't think anyone could deny the incredible physical tools, but the reason I had Kaepernick graded as a third rounder is because I felt he was a project. Also, to take a quarterback as early as Kaepernick went there is usually pressure to play them even if they aren't ready. Kaepernick obviously went into a good situation with a strong team and outstanding quarterback coach and it sure seems to be working out, but what if he had been selected by the Oakland Raiders?

I have a question for everyone: Do you think if Kaepernick was in the 2013 NFL Draft he would be a more highly-regarded pro prospect because there are more mobile quarterbacks having success in the league now than there were a couple of years ago? I absolutely do.

Actually, you blew it. You stated you never saw Kaepernick as being a major project and that he would never start a game.


Obviously with the read option being such a big part of some offenses, teams would not only overlook, but perhaps even be overjoyed with his experience. I don't see how, based on his production at Nevada and tape which clearly showed the arm talent, size, speed, and playmaking ability (as well as durability and production), he wouldn't be the number 1 QB in 2013.

CK was my favorite QB from 2011 and that was a very strong class. This class is weak and full of questions. There were less quesitons, in mind, than all of the QBs of this season's crop.

brasho
01-27-2013, 10:08 AM
Please don't try and act like you're so mature and better than everyone. It wasn't "nice" of you to go out and dig up an old thread to call out people who didn't think a prospect would be as good as you did. I'm sure you missed on prospects too, we all do. Quit being a sore-winner. If you really are so mature then start acting like it by not calling people out on a wrong prediction a year later like a child.

EDIT:


No it's not an attack, it's my way of telling an overzealous child who doesn't know how to take a win in stride to calm down and stop post whoring and "attacking" people who made a wrong prediction a year later.

Oh, so you're an expert in child care? I'm an expert in housebreaking unruly pets. And when Fido takes a crap on the rug, it doesn't hurt to rub his nose in it. If people want to make statements damning a prospect, when that prospect totally proves those people wrong in a year's time, I think it is appropriate to rub their nose in their mess.

It's one thread, if you don't want to read it, then don't. In hindsight I should've done things better, perhaps compiled the grades into one post, but I didn't. My mistake.

The 49ers are in the Super Bowl in large part because of Kaepernick and yet people were still trying to discredit him as a fantastic young QB until he won the Atlanta game.

brasho
01-27-2013, 10:12 AM
There is still a pretty big risk to it though. If this offense doesn't slow down every defensive cooridnator will teach their edge guys to hit the QB. He's not a QB anymore as he becomes either a runner or a blocker. There is a way around every offensive playcall and a way around every defensive play call. The more common the read option becomes the easier it will be to defend

If the QB doesn't carry out the fake then the defensive player cannot hit him. Much like a regular QB handing off to a RB in I formation.

Somebody had stated that they didn't like CK because his speed was straightline, I think that is to his benefit. I would much rather have my QB taking what is there and getting down rather than cutting back or juking defenders. CK took very few hits in the QB game, he slid most of the time and kept himself out of harm's way.

It's guys like Griffen and Vick that will get hurt because they BECOME RBs once they break the LOS. Guys like Wilson, CK, and even Newton, still remain QBs and generally slide instead of taking on contact.

G Mobile
01-27-2013, 03:48 PM
49ers are in the superbowl because largely there team is very talented every where and they have a great coach. Kaep is doing great but he is not the sole driving reason for the 49ers success. 9ers are stacked. Kaepernick is a good young QB who is playing great right now. He's no Joe Flacco, but he's pretty good.

FUNBUNCHER
01-27-2013, 04:22 PM
CK is a big part of the reason the 49ers are where they are this year.
This isn't a Roethlisberger situation where in his 2nd year he wasn't really asked to be the man and instead just don't lose the game.

THe 49ers D is good, but they aren't good enough to carry an offense that can't score or a QB who can't make plays.

IMO CK is one of the top 5 most important players on SF's football team.

Babylon
01-27-2013, 04:46 PM
49ers are in the superbowl because largely there team is very talented every where and they have a great coach. Kaep is doing great but he is not the sole driving reason for the 49ers success. 9ers are stacked. Kaepernick is a good young QB who is playing great right now. He's no Joe Flacco, but he's pretty good.

Basically Alex Smith would have got them there too.

Rosebud
01-27-2013, 09:02 PM
He just doesn't have Tebow's winningness.

brat316
01-27-2013, 09:06 PM
I don't think they could run the read option effectively with Smith. CK helps them score points, on a team that if full of pro bowl players.. about 11 of them I think.

brasho
02-04-2013, 12:13 PM
Basically Alex Smith would have got them there too.

No, Alex Smith, even at his best, is a glorified care-taker. The 49ers have looked like a completely different team under CK. His ability to fire the ball downfield with accuracy and zip have given a group of receivers a chance to make the best use of their athletic talents. Look at Michael Crabtree. Under Smith he looked like a plodding WR that couldn't gain separation, with CK as his QB he was repeatedly hit in stride and validates his high selection with his great hands and physical running after the catch. Under Smith he was an afterthought.

There is no chance Smith leads the team to a comeback against the Falcons and even less chance he rallies the team and nearly wins it against the Ravens. Smith was baffled and confounded by the Vikings earlier in the year, just imagine what the Ravens and Falcons would have done to him on the much larger stage.

Black Bolt
02-04-2013, 12:20 PM
I think it will prove to be a fad, RG111 is already injured and not likey to be able to plant his throwing foot equally well upon his return. Teams will start to go after Kaepernick and Wilson and try to damage their legs ASAP. How long will their careers last, not very long I think?
The NFL fact has always been, run your QB at your own risk, it is quite another to put your QB at risk quite a bit in a game and I just don't see them surviving very long. A couple of crippling injuries, and nobody will want to try it again.

Neither of RGIII's injuries occurred during a read option play.

Black Bolt
02-04-2013, 12:22 PM
Unfortunately, like RG111, they are going to take some real hits sooner or later and the injuries will follow. Defenses will catch up a little at a time and really lay the body on these running QB's even if it means the odd penalty.
There is a reason why pro football has always been reluctant to have QB's who can run the ball, it is injuries. RB's have a 5 year shelf life because teams go after them and have real opportunities to lay the body on them and that is what is going to happen to Kaepernick and Wilson. I predict very short careers for these 3 QB's.

How many hits did Brett Farve take in the pocket over his long career?

Black Bolt
02-04-2013, 12:23 PM
My thoughts on Kaepernick?

Big nose, annoying voice, stupid tattoos. 2/10. Would not bang.

Tattoo's can be stupid? Didn't know that, thanks.

Black Bolt
02-04-2013, 12:30 PM
49ers are in the superbowl because largely there team is very talented every where and they have a great coach. Kaep is doing great but he is not the sole driving reason for the 49ers success. 9ers are stacked. Kaepernick is a good young QB who is playing great right now. He's no Joe Flacco, but he's pretty good.

Except that stacked defense has been doing nothing in the playoffs but digging the team in a whole. Luckily, Kaepernick was good enough brought them back using his arm and legs.

SolidGold
02-04-2013, 02:59 PM
Let's see him replicate the success next season before anointing him anything. Alex Smith was much more than a game manager and really flourished under Haurbaugh in San Fran. The o-line was dominant all season and they had a strong running game.

How defenses across the league adjust to the pistol and spread option next season is going to be interesting.

bucfan12
02-04-2013, 03:05 PM
Im a big fan of Kaepernick, but to say the Niners wouldn't have made the Super Bowl if Alex Smith was behind Center is absolutely assinine. Smith played great and should have went to teh Super Bowl Last year if it wasn't for Kyle WIlliams fumbling the game away.

Smith was absolutely playing magniificent before a concussion knocked him out.

You don't know what would have happened, regardless of the situation. But lets not take the fact Alex Smith was Kaepernick's back up to end the year as something so low. Both QBs were great this year. Harbaugh went with Kap because he took his opportunity and ran with it. Alex Smith will be a starter next year. Kap is better and has much better upside, but that doesn't mean Smith is no good.

domingo
02-05-2013, 07:54 AM
I have watched every single snap that Alex Smith has taken for the 49ers in his entire career. He is a mediocre game managing quarterback. He had his best success last year riding a team that played good to great defense and great special teams. This years team was simply not as good as last years especially on defense which showed in all three playoff games.

The 49ers were simply not headed to the Super Bowl with Alex Smith as quarterback. In fact I doubt they would have beaten out Seattle for the division championship. I have a hard time believing that Smith would have beaten the Saints and Patriots in the regular season. A wild card birth, one and done. My opinion of course but there is no way and hell Alex Smith leads this team to the Super Bowl. No way.

Last year the 49er team led Alex Smith to the NFC championship game. This year Colin Kapernick led the 49ers to the Super Bowl.

Black Bolt
02-05-2013, 08:13 AM
Im a big fan of Kaepernick, but to say the Niners wouldn't have made the Super Bowl if Alex Smith was behind Center is absolutely assinine. Smith played great and should have went to teh Super Bowl Last year if it wasn't for Kyle WIlliams fumbling the game away.

Smith was absolutely playing magniificent before a concussion knocked him out.

You don't know what would have happened, regardless of the situation. But lets not take the fact Alex Smith was Kaepernick's back up to end the year as something so low. Both QBs were great this year. Harbaugh went with Kap because he took his opportunity and ran with it. Alex Smith will be a starter next year. Kap is better and has much better upside, but that doesn't mean Smith is no good.

This year, there was zero change Smith would have won the SB. You are forgetting the fact that the 49ers defensive didn't show up for the playoffs.

Rosebud
02-05-2013, 09:45 AM
Tattoo's can be stupid? Didn't know that, thanks.

I don't know if you're trying to be clever, but yes tattoos can be incredibly stupid.

See:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln3yidz0EW1qf1aogo1_500.jpg

So stupid.

Black Bolt
02-05-2013, 10:18 AM
I don't know if you're trying to be clever, but yes tattoos can be incredibly stupid.

See:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln3yidz0EW1qf1aogo1_500.jpg

So stupid.

No they can't. The people that decide to wear them sometimes can.

LonghornsLegend
02-05-2013, 10:25 AM
Let's see him replicate the success next season before anointing him anything. Alex Smith was much more than a game manager and really flourished under Haurbaugh in San Fran. .

I don't know why more people don't understand this. When you watched San Fran play here most recently, Kaep was by far their best player on the field. He was dynamic and was the primary piece that made them go, Alex Smith was along for the ride. Some people act as if there isn't a huge difference between the two.


Also the way the defense was playing last year is like night and day compared to how they finished this year. They needed a play-maker on offense, not a game manager.

John Gaunt
02-05-2013, 10:30 AM
Wins seem to be an over valued stat around here

WCH
02-05-2013, 10:31 AM
I don't know if you're trying to be clever, but yes tattoos can be incredibly stupid.

See:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln3yidz0EW1qf1aogo1_500.jpg

So stupid.

This is why you never pass out drunk around tattoo artists.

TitanHope
02-05-2013, 10:42 AM
No they can't. The people that decide to wear them sometimes can.

Tattoos aren't even capable of intelligent thought. They're super stupid.

SolidGold
02-05-2013, 11:12 AM
I don't know why more people don't understand this. When you watched San Fran play here most recently, Kaep was by far their best player on the field. He was dynamic and was the primary piece that made them go, Alex Smith was along for the ride. Some people act as if there isn't a huge difference between the two.


Also the way the defense was playing last year is like night and day compared to how they finished this year. They needed a play-maker on offense, not a game manager.

Smith was no slouch - they would of been in the superbowl last year with him at the helm if Kyle Williams did not fumble that punt and was playing very well this year before being replaced.

Black Bolt
02-05-2013, 11:29 AM
Tattoos aren't even capable of intelligent thought. They're super stupid.

Actually, they aren't capable of ANY thought, therefore they can't be stupid.

Black Bolt
02-05-2013, 11:30 AM
Smith was no slouch - they would of been in the superbowl last year with him at the helm if Kyle Williams did not fumble that punt and was playing very well this year before being replaced.

And there defense was playing much better at that time.

TitanHope
02-05-2013, 11:57 AM
Actually, they aren't capable of ANY thought, therefore they can't be stupid.

They're so stupid that they've completely bypassed being stupid, and have become something else altogether?

That's offensive to tattoos, and you shouldn't generalize.

brasho
02-05-2013, 12:52 PM
I have watched every single snap that Alex Smith has taken for the 49ers in his entire career. He is a mediocre game managing quarterback. He had his best success last year riding a team that played good to great defense and great special teams. This years team was simply not as good as last years especially on defense which showed in all three playoff games.

The 49ers were simply not headed to the Super Bowl with Alex Smith as quarterback. In fact I doubt they would have beaten out Seattle for the division championship. I have a hard time believing that Smith would have beaten the Saints and Patriots in the regular season. A wild card birth, one and done. My opinion of course but there is no way and hell Alex Smith leads this team to the Super Bowl. No way.

Last year the 49er team led Alex Smith to the NFC championship game. This year Colin Kapernick led the 49ers to the Super Bowl.

What he said... plus, it's taken Smith this long to become the game manager that he has grown into. The 49ers offense hsa a completely different dimension with Kaepernick. Even if Kaepernick didn't run the read-option, the 49er offense is far better. CK gets the ball accurately down the field, Smith checked down routinely and rarely pushed the ball down the field. CK fires lasers that hit receivers in stride... Smith gets them the ball with nothing left to do but absorb a hit. The differences between them throwing the ball is tremendous.

Leon Sandcastle
02-05-2013, 12:55 PM
Do people really think Kap is better than Cam Newton at anything?

Black Bolt
02-05-2013, 01:29 PM
They're so stupid that they've completely bypassed being stupid, and have become something else altogether?

That's offensive to tattoos, and you shouldn't generalize.

One thing that's more stupid than tattoos is and argument whether or not tattoos are stupid, therefore I have to say good day.

Rosebud
02-05-2013, 01:46 PM
One thing that's more stupid than tattoos is and argument whether or not tattoos are stupid, therefore I have to say good day.

You're only saying that cause TH was kicking your ass in the argument.

Black Bolt
02-05-2013, 01:48 PM
You're only saying that cause TH was kicking your ass in the argument.

Ah, a cheerleader. Don't forget to include this little gig on your taxes. TH was obviously having some fun with the debate from the beginning, but I wouldn't expect someone like you to pick up on that.

Now, I am telling you the same thing I told him, good day. You and TH can celebrate however you all tend to celebrate (in your own mind).

Rosebud
02-05-2013, 01:51 PM
TH generally takes me out to a strip club and we cross swords while laughing at you with the hookers.

TitanHope
02-05-2013, 02:50 PM
All I'm saying is I had a dog once who accidentally said his name whenever he yawned.

Tattoos can't even do that!