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View Full Version : Someone Please Explain the Akeem Ayers Love


descendency
01-30-2011, 06:39 AM
Hi, I've watched a few UCLA games over the years and I'm struggling to understand what exactly Akeem Ayers does well enough to be a first round pick.

I do not see an NFL linebacker, let alone a first rounder. I'm ecstatic he's predicted to go so high, because that means a more talented prospect falls to NE (Cameron Jordan??? Robert Quinn???).

Umoro
01-30-2011, 06:42 AM
Basically, size/speed. It's all measurables with this guy. He's a 6'4" 250lb guy who is probably going to run a 4.5 40 and otherwise blow up the Combine.

He's this year's Aaron Curry - an elite measurables guy who played on a bad team who has no instincts for the game and no toughness. He'll be an average player, at best, in the NFL, just like Curry.

descendency
01-30-2011, 06:59 AM
Eh, I thought Aaron Curry was 10 times more physical than Akeem Ayers.

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 10:03 AM
I see where the love comes from. Size and speed are important and he has those two things. Really comes off soft and isn't the pass rusher he should be at that size either, although he wasn't asked to do it that often.

A Perfect Score
01-30-2011, 10:48 AM
It's unfortunate because when I first started watching Ayers closely, I was blown away. His athleticism is through the roof, as others have said. He's going to blow up the combine. He's extremely fluid in his motions, has sideline to sideline speed and is very natural in coverage. However, the more I watch the less I like him. He isn't a collision athlete, and he doesn't go downhill with force. He's not a 3-4 LB inside or outside: he isn't nearly violent enough for that. We actually had this discussion in IRC last night and his best fit is probably in a Cover 2, somewhere like Tampa where he won't be asked to fill gaps and can flow to the ball similar to the way he does at UCLA. He can set the edge but he does play too high for my liking and he'll miss some tackles due to a lack of aggressiveness. You can't deny that he's a playmaker though, and highly athletic guys with a knack for making impact plays tend to get drafted in the first round.

87Canes
01-30-2011, 12:05 PM
I agree that Curry was 10x more physical than Ayers. Ayers is more athletic though...

TACKLE
01-30-2011, 02:50 PM
Bobby Carpenter 2.0

RealityCheck
01-30-2011, 04:18 PM
I do not see an NFL linebacker, let alone a first rounder. I'm ecstatic he's predicted to go so high, because that means a more talented prospect falls to NE (Cameron Jordan??? Robert Quinn???).
If Quinn falls to #17, I will leave this board forever, for the happiness of every poster in this website.

JohnCandy
01-30-2011, 04:38 PM
Looks like Tarzan plays like JANE

Scotty D
01-30-2011, 04:41 PM
As a Lion fan I support the topic of this thread.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
01-30-2011, 05:21 PM
Yeah I was seriously wondering why anyone would use a 3rd rounder on him after watching him let every single play come to him.

But oddly enough, a lot of plays do come right to him. Unfortunately, giving him solid "production." So we're going to hear a lot about that, too. But he sucks.

TheSlinger
01-30-2011, 05:48 PM
I was wondering this too... good to know I haven't completely lost it yet.

D-Unit
01-30-2011, 06:24 PM
It's simple really. There are a few Youtube clips on him that aren't very favorable for him. It only shows a very small percentage of his game yet people use that to generalize their entire opinion of him. Fact is, 99.9% of the people on this forum have not broken down his career game film enough to get a proper read on him. He can pretty much blame Youtube for his lack of fandom. It explains why the real scouts are high on him while the common fan is not.

Scotty D
01-30-2011, 06:32 PM
It's simple really. There are a few Youtube clips on him that aren't very favorable for him. It only shows a very small percentage of his game yet people use that to generalize their entire opinion of him. Fact is, 99.9% of the people on this forum have not broken down his career game film enough to get a proper read on him. He can pretty much blame Youtube for his lack of fandom. It explains why the real scouts are high on him while the common fan is not.

You give scouts too much credit.

nepg
01-30-2011, 06:36 PM
So he's Shawn Crable?

ElectricEye
01-30-2011, 06:38 PM
I don't necessarily agree with D-Unit here on this specific example...(Although I don't disagree either. I have a neutral stance on Ayers. Like him a lot, but only in certain schemes) but I think it's high time we acknowledge the role Youtube clips have in peoples opinions these days. At least on message boards. There's certain situations where it's just obvious that people have watched a few clips on a guy without really doing their homework.

San Diego Chicken
01-30-2011, 06:42 PM
I like Ayers a lot. He's just a bit inconsistent, he does have a mean streak though. In one of the USC games he picked up 2 or 3 personal fouls. I read he battled some nicks and bruises in the second half of the season that slowed him down, but he was pretty dominant in the Kansas State and Texas games. I wouldn't be unhappy with him to San Diego in the first round. Definitely has worlds more potential than Larry English.

TACKLE
01-30-2011, 07:08 PM
It's simple really. There are a few Youtube clips on him that aren't very favorable for him. It only shows a very small percentage of his game yet people use that to generalize their entire opinion of him. Fact is, 99.9% of the people on this forum have not broken down his career game film enough to get a proper read on him. He can pretty much blame Youtube for his lack of fandom. It explains why the real scouts are high on him while the common fan is not.

And what scouts have you heard speak highly of Akeem Ayers? Any? I'd love to hear what pro personnel are saying about him. Being an underclassmen, most scouts have probably already broken down his career film, right? Or do you just assume that ESPN rankings are an accurate reflection of where real scouts have players ranked?

SenorGato
01-30-2011, 07:09 PM
He's big and he's athletic...also he was a pretty good college player and made alot of plays...the Crable comparison isn't terrible, but Ayers doesn't have twigs for legs.

http://maizeandgoblue.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/CrableQuinn.jpg

D-Unit
01-30-2011, 08:09 PM
And what scouts have you heard speak highly of Akeem Ayers? Any? I'd love to hear what pro personnel are saying about him. Being an underclassmen, most scouts have probably already broken down his career film, right? Or do you just assume that ESPN rankings are an accurate reflection of where real scouts have players ranked?
OK replace "real scouts" with "experts". Doesn't change the root of my message.

descendency
01-30-2011, 09:52 PM
It's simple really. There are a few Youtube clips on him that aren't very favorable for him. It only shows a very small percentage of his game yet people use that to generalize their entire opinion of him. Fact is, 99.9% of the people on this forum have not broken down his career game film enough to get a proper read on him. He can pretty much blame Youtube for his lack of fandom. It explains why the real scouts are high on him while the common fan is not.

Feel free to send me your contact in the video departments of the 120 Division 1 (FBS) schools. I'd love to see the coaching film.

I'm sure there are lots of youtube highlight films that show players in a positive light and that you have to take your experience for what it is (A 5-15 minute youtube clip), but when you are a college football fan, you take what you can get. Since none of us have contacts in scouting departments, I'll take what I can get: youtube and live games (which I can DVR).

superman8456
01-30-2011, 10:16 PM
And what scouts have you heard speak highly of Akeem Ayers? Any? I'd love to hear what pro personnel are saying about him. Being an underclassmen, most scouts have probably already broken down his career film, right? Or do you just assume that ESPN rankings are an accurate reflection of where real scouts have players ranked?

I know Mike Mayock is VERY high on Akeem Ayers. He talked fairly extensively about his love for Rahim Moore and Akeem Ayers one practice of the Senior Bowl.

Edit: I think Akeem Ayers is a good football player. Every time I've watched, I've come away awed by his athletic ability and build. Not to mention that he gets it done on the field. One of the better playmaker linebackers in this draft.

SRK85
01-30-2011, 10:57 PM
He is another Manny Lawson/Larry English. Great athleticism but will never produce on an NFL level. No one should draft him in top 15 because that would be wasting a pick.

bigbuc
01-31-2011, 12:10 AM
You just have to draft him for what he is. I live in LA and have seen him play many times. If your drafting him to be a 3-4 LB your not doing your home work. He'll never be a great 3-4 ILB or a Rush OLB.

But if you draft this kid to play in a 4-3 ROLB Tampa 2 system you guy yourself a player. He's never going to be a great knock your head off guy. But he can drop, sink his hips and drive on the ball very well. Most likely the best coverage LB. Also doesn't help that he was on a bad football team that was down most of the time.

PrimetimeTheDon
01-31-2011, 12:24 AM
Is he related to Robert Ayers?

bullg8rdaddy
01-31-2011, 02:33 AM
Feel free to send me your contact in the video departments of the 120 Division 1 (FBS) schools. I'd love to see the coaching film.

I'm sure there are lots of youtube highlight films that show players in a positive light and that you have to take your experience for what it is (A 5-15 minute youtube clip), but when you are a college football fan, you take what you can get. Since none of us have contacts in scouting departments, I'll take what I can get: youtube and live games (which I can DVR).


Full games for Akeem Ayers (courtesy of ESPN3):

Sept 11 vs Stanford http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=35458&league=NCAAF (also Stanford FB Owen Marecic, C Chase Beeler, TE Konrad Reuland and Bruin S Rahim Moore)

Sept 25 @ Texas http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=38551&league=NCAAF (Also Longhorn DE Sam Acho, CB Curtis Brown, CB Aaron WIlliams)

Oct. 21 @ Oregon http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=52429&league=NCAAF (Also Duck WR Jeff Maehl, LB Kenny Rowe and LB Casey Matthews)

Nov. 18 @ Washington http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=66048&league=NCAAF (Also Husky QB Jake Locker and LB Mason Foster)

Scotty D
01-31-2011, 02:49 AM
+ rep bull, I completely forgot about ESPN 3. Draftniks haven't had this type of tool in the past.

bullg8rdaddy
01-31-2011, 02:52 AM
I love it. Alot.

PM me if you are too busy to look for games for players you want to watch. I am a night owl and don't sleep much. ;)

descendency
01-31-2011, 04:52 AM
Full games for Akeem Ayers (courtesy of ESPN3)

The point was that his post comes off mildly "you don't know what you are talking about so you just shouldn't bother because you only watch youtube" and I simply was asking for his coaching tape (which is not game tape, it's filmed from another location, different angle - way better for scouting, not so great for watching/enjoying the game) source. (tongue in cheek - obviously)

but thanks for the links. I didn't think ESPN3 kept games up after like a week or 2.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-31-2011, 05:03 AM
I don't necessarily agree with D-Unit here on this specific example...(Although I don't disagree either. I have a neutral stance on Ayers. Like him a lot, but only in certain schemes) but I think it's high time we acknowledge the role Youtube clips have in peoples opinions these days. At least on message boards. There's certain situations where it's just obvious that people have watched a few clips on a guy without really doing their homework.

to be fair, i thought maurice drew was going to be awesome thanks to youtube (with an assist credited to keak) and that has worked out pretty well

bullg8rdaddy
01-31-2011, 05:07 AM
The point was that his post comes off mildly "you don't know what you are talking about so you just shouldn't bother because you only watch youtube" and I simply was asking for his coaching tape (which is not game tape, it's filmed from another location, different angle - way better for scouting, not so great for watching/enjoying the game) source. (tongue in cheek - obviously)

but thanks for the links. I didn't think ESPN3 kept games up after like a week or 2.

Understood, sir.

TACKLE
01-31-2011, 05:12 AM
+ rep bull, I completely forgot about ESPN 3. Draftniks haven't had this type of tool in the past.

Stupid Canada and its no ESPN 3. Thank god for my DVR.

bullg8rdaddy
01-31-2011, 05:20 AM
Links don't work for you, TACKLE?

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 10:23 AM
ESPN 3 is fantastic. I've been re-watching games on that all year.

A Perfect Score
01-31-2011, 10:46 AM
Im with Tackle. Stupid ESPN3. Im lucky there are other ways to go about getting game tapes.

Also, for an example of the bad Akeem Ayers, check out the Oregon game. It isn't pretty.

descendency
01-31-2011, 05:19 PM
I only watched the first quarter so far (because I had to go to class) but his 2010 Texas game was pretty good.

He was getting off the ball like Von Miller (though, not quite with the COD or burst). He was very good in coverage.

I definitely agree he has some Tampa-2 OLB potential.

Nebula
01-31-2011, 09:00 PM
Anyone who thinks akeem ayers isn't overrated needs to explain how they evaluate linebackers. This is a guy who lacks instincts. We all know what happened to aaron curry, keith rivers, ernie sims, etc. These linebackers were highly athletic but they have no instincts to their game. They haven't been the playmakers in the NFL as they were in college. Heck, I don't even think Ayers is even athletically as good as aaron curry anyway

HakeemtheMachine
02-19-2011, 12:09 PM
Here is an Ayers Video I made
Akeem Ayers
vs
K state

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETvxMRachPw

P-L
02-19-2011, 04:03 PM
Sorry, but I have to agree with D-Unit here. Too many people are overreacting to that single YouTube video of him. The "soft" or "lacks physicality" labels are completely overblown. As with any highlight (or lowlight, in this case) video, you only see one side of the coin. I'm not going to make the argument that he's one of the more physical linebackers in this class, but saying that he's soft is definitely a big overstatement. My biggest concerns about Ayers are his tackling (he doesn't always wrap up and other times he goes too high) and his ability to shed blockers. I'm really not concerned with him being the Antonio Cromartie of linebackers. I think some people are spoiled by the Patrick Willises of the world.

As for what is to like: a lot. He's 6'4" 255-260 and looks like he can easily add another 5-10 lbs to his frame without losing much, if any, athleticism. He's got speed and quickness to go along with an excellent burst (which is why some project him to be a 3-4 OLB). He's one of the better linebackers in coverage that I've seen since I've been scouting draft prospects. He's still a raw pass rusher, but the potential is through the roof. Everyone always talks about how the the NFL is a passing league now. Well, Ayers' strengths are defending the pass and his pass rushing potential. He seems like the ideal SLB in a 4-3 defense to me.

DeathbyStat
02-19-2011, 04:53 PM
I see the guy as a 4-3 weakside backer, but not as some have projected him as a 3-4 rush backer

Roddoliver
02-19-2011, 05:44 PM
From what I've seen, Ayers seems to be one of the most overrated players in this draft. And his last name does not help much.

TACKLE
02-19-2011, 06:33 PM
Bobby Carpenter 2.0

Very, very similar prospect. Same H/W/S, both played the roll of a 4-3 OLB/situational pass rusher. Both will likely get selected in the same range. And like Carpenter, on paper Ayers looks like a great fit as a potential 3-4 ILB or possibly even OLB. But Akeem Ayers needs to stay the hell away from the 3-4 defense. He's a big, fluid run and chase LB. He doesn't need to be taking on blocks from guards all game long. Who knows, maybe Carpenter could of had a lot more success playing in a 4-3 defense as well. Ayers should be hoping he doesn't get drafted by a 3-4 team because I think it could end up hampering his ability to be successful.

ElectricEye
02-19-2011, 07:10 PM
That actually makes a whole ton of sense. Ayers has triangle numbers up the wazoo for a 3-4, but it's not a very natural fit.

coordinator0
02-19-2011, 08:31 PM
Very, very similar prospect. Same H/W/S, both played the roll of a 4-3 OLB/situational pass rusher. Both will likely get selected in the same range. And like Carpenter, on paper Ayers looks like a great fit as a potential 3-4 ILB or possibly even OLB. But Akeem Ayers needs to stay the hell away from the 3-4 defense. He's a big, fluid run and chase LB. He doesn't need to be taking on blocks from guards all game long. Who knows, maybe Carpenter could of had a lot more success playing in a 4-3 defense as well. Ayers should be hoping he doesn't get drafted by a 3-4 team because I think it could end up hampering his ability to be successful.

I think Ayers could excel in a 3-4 defense if given the role that was usually given to Baltimore's #2 ILB this past season. I expect that Pagano will use them differently though.

Nebula
02-22-2011, 09:15 PM
Also, for an example of the bad Akeem Ayers, check out the Oregon game. It isn't pretty.

You honestly weren't kidding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV9E-uT6PgM

Very, very ugly..

LonghornsLegend
02-25-2011, 03:22 AM
I think Ayers makes a ton of sense for the Giants. They have Boley to be the SLB and take on the TE, he can play that weak backer, rush the QB, and move in space. Their line should support his weaknesses pretty good.


That said, he reminds me a bit of Ernie Sims and not in a good way.

Jakey
02-25-2011, 05:12 AM
He would do well in the Steelers system as an ILB. He wouldnt be forced to take on blocks that often and would be utilised in space/coverage/blitzing (ala Lawrence Timmons)...he would just have to learn how to attack the line against the run abit more.

In face he reminds me allot of Lawrence Timmons in the way he plays.

BSims
02-25-2011, 10:03 AM
... Who knows, maybe Carpenter could of had a lot more success playing in a 4-3 defense as well...

Carpenter is now on a 4-3 team in the Detroit Lions and performed pretty well. I don't see much mention of the fact that Ayers played most of last year with an injury - turf toe I guess. That says a few things to me, he's a team guy with toughness willing to play through some pain and that to get a better gauge on his play need to look at his prior year and first few games of the '10 season before he was hurt.

descendency
02-25-2011, 10:13 AM
You honestly weren't kidding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV9E-uT6PgM

Very, very ugly..

My biggest fear is that playing a team like Oregon is all about how fast they play. If you have poor instincts, it will show up in that game - which most people believe he does... and he played poorly.

Zello
02-25-2011, 10:21 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see him run a 4.4 40 at the combine and own the VJ/SS/BP.

I think when we look back on this year's draft four years from now, we'll view Ayers as the workout warrior, or the Vernon Gholston, of this year's draft.

A Perfect Score
02-25-2011, 10:32 AM
You honestly weren't kidding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV9E-uT6PgM

Very, very ugly..

It was a very ugly game.

I think Ayers makes a ton of sense for the Giants. They have Boley to be the SLB and take on the TE, he can play that weak backer, rush the QB, and move in space. Their line should support his weaknesses pretty good.


That said, he reminds me a bit of Ernie Sims and not in a good way.

Ayers is actually similar in a few ways to Clint Sintim, who they drafted a few years ago to play SAM. I'd expect they'd both play that elephant role in the Giants D and I don't know if its one Ayers is suited for. I continually see him cited as a pass rusher, but in all the tape Ive seen of him he isn't putting his hand on the ground and rushing. I think he'd be best in a Cover 2 system, somewhere like Indy or Tampa or Chicago.

descendency
02-25-2011, 10:46 AM
Ayers is actually similar in a few ways to Clint Sintim, who they drafted a few years ago to play SAM. I'd expect they'd both play that elephant role in the Giants D and I don't know if its one Ayers is suited for. I continually see him cited as a pass rusher, but in all the tape Ive seen of him he isn't putting his hand on the ground and rushing. I think he'd be best in a Cover 2 system, somewhere like Indy or Tampa or Chicago.

He plays 43 DE on some 3rd down plays (for example against Texas, where he abused their OTs... who suck)

BigBanger
02-25-2011, 11:05 AM
The thing I can't stand about Ayers is the amount of times I've seen him quit on a play or just flat out give up. He has no ******* motor at all. He makes me sick watching him sometimes. I know he was on a bad team that routinely had a defense get abused, but obviously he isn't a leader or someone who really cares.

Incredibly talented with great length and athleticism. Looked really good rushing the passer although they didn't allow him to do it enough (he was UCLA's best pass rusher). Tons of potential, but motor, lack of physicality, pursuit angles... all below average.

Zello
02-25-2011, 11:18 AM
The thing I can't stand about Ayers is the amount of times I've seen him quit on a play or just flat out give up. He has no ******* motor at all. He makes me sick watching him sometimes. I know he was on a bad team that routinely had a defense get abused, but obviously he isn't a leader or someone who really cares.

Incredibly talented with great length and athleticism. Looked really good rushing the passer although they didn't allow him to do it enough (he was UCLA's best pass rusher). Tons of potential, but motor, lack of physicality, pursuit angles... all below average.

Unbelievable athleticism and highlight plays on the college level, with an obvious disinterest in the game and an aversion to contact?

Yep, sounds like the Vernon Gholston of linebackers.

LonghornsLegend
02-25-2011, 12:57 PM
Ayers is actually similar in a few ways to Clint Sintim, who they drafted a few years ago to play SAM. I'd expect they'd both play that elephant role in the Giants D and I don't know if its one Ayers is suited for. I continually see him cited as a pass rusher, but in all the tape Ive seen of him he isn't putting his hand on the ground and rushing. I think he'd be best in a Cover 2 system, somewhere like Indy or Tampa or Chicago.




I don't know what they intend to do with Sintim. But I was pretty sure Boley was the SAM. Even if the Giants did have him rushing the passer he wouldn't have his hand on the ground too often.



Then again, Ayers just seems like one of those guys who can easily turn out to be a bust and not one person would be surprised. Yet he's still gonna go pretty high, he is gonna need some good coaching I'll say that. Not a guarantee he'll get that in every landing spot.



Scott has his mocked to SD. Is Larry English a bust already? Chargers haven't been doing so hot early in the draft.

A Perfect Score
02-25-2011, 01:00 PM
I personally dont think Akeem Ayers is a 3-4 OLB. Apparently he's being looked at as that spot, but I think he's an ILB in a 3-4 and a much better OLB in a 4-3.

Nebula
02-28-2011, 01:43 PM
Ran an unforunate 4.8. Might be better off in the 3-4

P-L
02-28-2011, 02:13 PM
Well he's A LOT less attractive now that we know he isn't the athlete he was made out to be.

Nebula
02-28-2011, 11:17 PM
Well he's A LOT less attractive now that we know he isn't the athlete he was made out to be.

Honestly, about everyone kept saying he's the one of the most athletic linebackers in this draft. What happened? Decided not to prepare for the combine or something?

He almost ran as bad as Herzlich who has a rod in his leg. That's pathetic.