PDA

View Full Version : Post-Senior Bowl Rankings & Draft Work


ThePudge
01-30-2011, 11:47 PM
I'm back again with my Post-Senior Bowl/East-West Shrine Game Rankings. I've been tweaking a and making adjustments constantly over the last two weeks. There are some major changes from last time around as I cooled on some prospects while falling in love with others. As always, it's kind of long, so I'm organizing into four parts:


I. Positional Rankings
II. Big Board (Top 100)
III. Senior Bowl Risers/Fallers
IV. East-West Shrine Movers


I would've added a mock draft, but on Tuesday morning I'll be posting an enormous article on the Carolina Panthers First Overall Pick. I don't want to spoil my 1st Pick by giving it away in a mock draft first. I will say that the article closely profiles 5 players and includes complete scouting reports for each. I should have an updated 2-3 Round Mock Draft by next week. Hope everyone enjoys the new rankings, though don't be afraid to disagree. I'll probably make one final Pre-Combine rankings a week before the event in February. As always, feedback is encouraged and I'm always willing to offer my take. Enjoy!

I. Positional Rankings

-- OFFENSE --

Quarterbacks
1. Cameron Newton – Auburn*
2. Ryan Mallett – Arkansas*
3. Jake Locker – Washington
4. Blaine Gabbert – Missouri*
5. Christian Ponder – Florida State
6. Colin Kaepernick - Nevada
7. Ricky Stanzi – Iowa
8. Greg McElroy – Alabama
9. Andy Dalton – TCU
10. Nathan Enderle – Idaho
11. Pat Devlin – Delaware
12. Tyrod Taylor – Virginia Tech
13. Scott Tolzien – Wisconsin
14. T.J. Yates – North Carolina
15. Adam Weber – Minnesota

Running Backs
1. Mark Ingram – Alabama*
2. Mikel LeShoure – Illinois*
3. Shane Vereen – California*
4. Ryan Williams – Virginia Tech*
5. DeMarco Murray – Oklahoma
6. Kendall Hunter – Oklahoma State
7. Jordan Todman – Connecticut*
8. Bilal Powell – Louisville
9. Jacquizz Rodgers – Oregon State*
10. Roy Helu – Nebraska
11. Daniel Thomas – Kansas State
12. Delone Carter – Syracuse
13. Taiwan Jones – Eastern Washington
14. Graig Cooper – Miami
15. Derrick Locke - Kentucky
16. Allen Bradford – USC
17. Dion Lewis – Pittsburgh*
18. Darren Evans – Virginia Tech*
19. Anthony Allen – Georgia Tech
20. John Clay – Wisconsin*
21. Noel Devine – West Virginia
22. Da’Rel Scott - Maryland
23. Mario Fannin – Auburn
24. Evan Royster – Penn State
25. Vai Taua – Nevada

Fullbacks
1. Owen Marecic – Stanford
2. Henry Hynoski – Pittsburgh*
3. Stanley Havilii – USC
4. Anthony Sherman – Connecticut
5. Keith Payne – Virginia
6. Shaun Chapas – Georgia
7. Preston Dial – Alabama (H-Back)
8. Charles Clay – Tulsa (H-Back)
9. Brett Morse – Iowa
10. Robert Hughes – Notre Dame

Wide Receivers
1. A.J. Green – Georgia*
2. Julio Jones – Alabama*
3. Titus Young – Boise State
4. Leonard Hankerson – Miami
5. Randall Cobb – Kentucky*
6. Torrey Smith – Maryland*
7. Jonathan Baldwin – Pittsburgh*
8. Greg Little – North Carolina
9. Jerrel Jernigan – Troy
10. Vincent Brown – San Diego State
11. Austin Pettis – Boise State
12. Dwayne Harris – East Carolina
13. Ronald Johnson – USC
14. Greg Salas - Hawaii
15. Tandon Doss – Indiana*
16. Niles Paul - Nebraska
17. Derrell Johnson-Koulianos – Iowa
18. Terrance Tolliver – LSU
19. Jeremy Kerley – TCU
20. Ryan Whalen - Stanford
21. Edmund Gates – Abilene Christian
22. Courtney Smith – South Alabama
23. Armon Binns – Cincinnati
24. Mark Dell – Michigan State
25. Tori Gurley – South Carolina*
26. Dane Sanzenbacher – Ohio State
27. DeAndre Brown – Southern Miss*
28. Jeff Maehl – Oregon
29. Jamel Hamler – Fresno State*
30. Stephen Burton – West Texas A&M

Tight Ends
1. Kyle Rudolph – Notre Dame*
2. Luke Stocker – Tennessee
3. Lance Kendricks – Wisconsin
4. D.J. Williams – Arkansas (H-Back)
5. Julius Thomas – Portland State
6. Lee Smith – Marshall
7. Mike McNeill – Nebraska (H-Back)
8. Weslye Saunders – South Carolina
9. Charlie Gantt – Michigan State
10. Kyle Adams – Purdue
11. Jordan Cameron – USC
12. Zack Pianalto – North Carolina
13. Virgil Green – Nevada
14. Allen Reisner – Iowa
15. Andre Smith – Virginia Tech

Offensive Tackles
1. Gabe Carimi – Wisconsin
2. Derek Sherrod – OT – Mississippi State
3. Tyron Smith – USC*
4. Anthony Castonzo – Boston College
5. Nate Solder – Colorado
6. Marcus Cannon – TCU
7. James Carpenter – Alabama (OG)
8. Orlando Franklin – Miami (OG)
9. Marcus Gilbert - Florida
10. Jason Pinkston - Pittsburgh
11. Lee Ziemba – Auburn
12. DeMarcus Love – Arkansas (OG)
13. Jah Reid – Central Florida
14. Chris Hariston – Clemson
15. James Brewer – Indiana

Offensive Guards
1. Mike Pouncey – Florida
2. Danny Watkins – Baylor
3. Clint Boling – Georgia (OT)
4. Ben Ijalana – Villanova (OT)
5. John Moffitt - Wisconsin
6. Keith Williams – Nebraska
7. Stephen Schiling – Michigan
8. Andrew Jackson – Fresno State
9. Bryant Browning – Ohio State
10. Will Rackley – Lehigh
11. David Arkin – Missouri State
12. Zach Hurd – Connecticut
13. Zachary Williams – Washington State (OC)
14. Randall Hunt – Illinois
15. Zach Boren – Ohio State

Centers
1. Stefan Wisniewski – Penn State
2. Rodney Hudson – Florida State
3. Jake Kirkpatrick – TCU
4. Tim Barnes – Missouri
5. Brandon Fusco – Slippery Rock
6. Alex Linnenkohl – Oregon State
7. Ryan Bartholomew – Syracuse
8. Kristofer O’Dowd – USC
9. Colin Baxter – Arizona
10. Zane Taylor – Utah

-- DEFENSE --
3-4 DL/LB in Red
4-3 DL/LB in Blue

Defensive Tackles
1. Nick Fairley – Auburn*
2. Marcell Dareus – Alabama*
3. Drake Nevis – LSU
4. Stephen Paea – Oregon State
5. Corey Liuget – Illinois*
6. Christian Ballard – Iowa
7. Cameron Heyward – Ohio State
8. Phil Taylor – Baylor
9. Muhammed Wilkerson – Temple*.
10. Jurrell Casey – USC*
11. Jarvis Jenkins – Clemson
12. Lawrence Guy – Arizona State
13. Sione Fua – Stanford
14. Cedric Thornton – Southern Arkansas
15. David Carter – UCLA
16. Terrell McClain – South Florida
17. Jerrell Powe – Mississippi
18. Marvin Austin – North Carolina
19. Martin Parker - Richmond
20. Kenrick Ellis – Hampton
21. Adrian Taylor – Oklahoma
22. Ian Williams – Notre Dame
23. Karl Klug – Iowa
24. Chris Neild – West Virginia
25. Dexter Larimore – Ohio State

Nose Tackles
1. Phil Taylor – Baylor
2. Jerrell Powe – Mississippi
3. Sione Fua – Stanford
4. Ian Williams – Notre Dame
5. Chris Neild – West Virginia

5-Techs
1. Cameron Heyward – Ohio State
2. Cameron Jordan – California
3. Marcell Dareus – Alabama* (NT)
4. J.J. Watt – Wisconsin*
5. Christian Ballard – Iowa
6. Muhammed Wilkerson – Temple*
7. Jarvis Jenkins – Clemson
8. Adrian Clayborn – Iowa
9. Zane Parr – Virginia*
10. Kenrick Ellis – Hampton

Defensive Ends
1. Da’Quan Bowers – Clemson*
2. Robert Quinn – North Carolina*
3. Cameron Jordan – California (DT)
4. Ryan Kerrigan – Purdue
5. J.J. Watt – Wisconsin*
6. Adrian Clayborn – Iowa
7. Aldon Smith – Missouri*
8. Greg Romeus – Pittsburgh
9. Allen Bailey – Miami
10. Jabaal Sheard – Pittsburgh
11. Pernell McPhee – Mississippi State
12. Brooks Reed – Arizona
13. Cliff Matthews – South Carolina
14. Pierre Allen – Nebraska
15. Jeremy Beal – Oklahoma
16. Ricky Elmore – Arizona
17. Steven Friday – Virginia Tech
18. Ryan Winterswyk – Boise State
19. Sam Acho – Texas
20. Justin Trattou – Florida

3-4 Outside Linebacker
1. Justin Houston – Georgia*
2. Robert Quinn – North Carolina*
3. Ryan Kerrigan – Purdue
4. Akeem Ayers – UCLA*
5. Von Miller – Texas A&M
6. Brooks Reed – Arizona
7. Jeremy Beal – Oklahoma
8. Aldon Smith – Missouri*
9. Sam Acho – Texas
10. Tom Keiser – Stanford*
11. Dontay Moch - Nevada
12. Chris Carter – Fresno State
13. Justin Trattou – Florida
14. Wayne Daniels – TCU
15. Bruce Miller – Central Florida

Outside Linebacker
1. Von Miller – Texas A&M
2. Mason Foster – Washington
3. Akeem Ayers – UCLA*
4. Martez Wilson – Illinois*
5. Bruce Carter – North Carolina
6. K.J. Wright – Mississippi State
7. Justin Houston – Georgia
8. Mark Herzlich – Boston College
9. Lawrence Wilson – Connecticut
10. Doug Hogue – Syracuse
11. Dontay Moch – Nevada
12. Brian Rolle – Ohio State
13. Adrian Moten – Maryland
14. Ross Homan – Ohio State (MLB)
15. Kenny Rowe – Oregon

Middle Linebacker
1. Quan Sturdivant – North Carolina
2. Kelvin Sheppard – LSU (OLB)
3. Colin McCarthy – Miami
4. Nate Irving – North Carolina State (OLB)
5. Greg Jones – Michigan State
6. Orie Lemon – Oklahoma State
7. Casey Matthews - Oregon
8. Greg Lloyd – Connecticut
9. Josh Bynes – Auburn
10. Scott Lutrus – Connecticut
11. Mike Mohammed – California
12. Alex Wujciak – Maryland
13. Chris White – Mississippi State
14. Akeem Dent – Georgia
15. Nick Bellore – Central Michigan

3-4 Inside Linebacker
1. Martez Wilson – Illinois*
2. Kelvin Sheppard – LSU
3. K.J. Wright – Mississippi State
4. Quan Sturdivant – North Carolina
5. Mark Herzlich – Boston College
6. Nate Irving – North Carolina State
7. Greg Llyod – Connecticut
8. Greg Jones – Michigan State
9. Josh Bynes – Auburn
10. Scott Lutrus – Connecticut

Cornerback
1. Patrick Peterson – LSU*
2. Prince Amukamara – Nebraska
3. Jimmy Smith – Colorado
4. Brandon Harris – Miami*
5. Aaron Williams – Texas*
6. Jalil Brown – Colorado
7. Brandon Burton – Utah*
8. Ras-I Dowling - Virginia
9. Curtis Brown – Texas
10. Johnny Patrick – Louisville
11. Chykie Brown - Texas
12. Rashad Carmichael – Virginia Tech
13. Davon House – New Mexico State
14. Kendric Burney – North Carolina
15. Brandon Hogan – Virginia Tech
16. Chimdi Chekwa – Ohio State
17. Marcus Gilchrist – Clemson
18. Shareece Wright – USC
19. Chris Rucker – Michigan State
20. Curtis Marsh – Utah State
21. Justin Rogers – Richmond
22. Josh Thomas - Buffalo
23. Korey Lindsey – Southern Illinois
24. DeMarcus Van Dyke – Miami
25. Cortez Allen – The Citadel

Free Safety
1. Rahim Moore – UCLA*
2. Deunta Williams – North Carolina
3. Quinton Carter – Oklahoma
4. Jaiquawn Jarrett – Temple
5. Eugene Clifford – Tennessee State
6. Robert Sands – West Virginia*
7. Eric Hagg – Nebraska
8. Will Hill – Florida*
9. Jay Valai – Wisconsin
10. Tejay Johnson – TCU

Strong Safety
1. DeAndre McDaniel – Clemson
2. Ahmad Black – Florida (CB)
3. Jeron Johnson – Boise State
4. Tyler Sash – Iowa*
5. Jermale Hines – Ohio State
6. Shiloh Keo – Idaho
7. Joe Lefeged – Rutgers
8. Nate Williams – Washington
9. Justin Taplin-Ross – Utah
10. Duke Ihenacho – San Jose State


II. Post-Senior Bowl Big Board

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/58/588792.jpg

1. A.J. Green – WR – Georgia*
2. Patrick Peterson – CB – LSU*
3. Da’Quan Bowers – DE – Clemson*
4. Cameron Newton – QB – Auburn*
5. Nick Fairley – DT – Auburn*
6. Julio Jones – WR – Alabama*
7. Marcell Dareus – DL – Alabama*
8. Robert Quinn – DE/LB – North Carolina*
9. Cameron Jordan – DE – California
10. Prince Amukamara – CB – Nebraska
11. Mark Ingram – RB – Alabama*
12. Ryan Kerrigan – DE/LB – Purdue
13. Cameron Heyward – DL – Ohio State
14. J.J. Watt – DE – Wisconsin*
15. Gabe Carimi – OT – Wisconsin
16. Justin Houston – OLB – Georgia*
17. Von Miller – OLB – Texas A&M
18. Kyle Rudolph – TE – Notre Dame*
19. Derek Sherrod – OT – Mississippi State
20. Jimmy Smith – CB – Colorado
21. Tyron Smith – OT – USC*
22. Mikel LeShoure – RB – Illinois*
23. Akeem Ayers – OLB – UCLA*
24. Mason Foster – OLB – Washington
25. Titus Young – WR – Boise State
26. Brandon Harris – CB – Miami*
27. Anthony Castonzo – OT – Boston College
28. Leonard Hankerson – WR - Miami
29. Ryan Mallett – QB – Arkansas*
30. Mike Pouncey – OG – Florida
31. Martez Wilson – LB – Illinois*
32. Nate Solder – OT – Colorado
33. Adrian Clayborn – DE – Iowa
34. Jake Locker – QB – Washington
35. Aldon Smith – DE/LB – Missouri*
36. Quan Sturdivant – MLB – North Carolina
37. Christian Ballard – DL – Iowa
38. Marcus Cannon – OT – TCU
39. Randall Cobb – WR – Kentucky*
40. Luke Stocker – TE – Tennessee
41. Drake Nevis – DT – LSU
42. Rahim Moore – FS - UCLA
43. Blaine Gabbert – QB – Missouri*
44. Torrey Smith – WR – Maryland*
45. Stephen Paea – DT – Oregon State
46. Shane Vereen – RB – California*
47. Corey Liuget – DT – Illinois*
48. Aaron Williams – CB – Texas*
49. Phil Taylor – NT - Baylor
50. Stefan Wisniewski – C – Penn State


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_sT3aezpIO7s/TNpuA3Rt5VI/AAAAAAAAAj0/HJ3nnJbREcE/s1600/ncf_g_reed_200.jpg

51. Brooks Reed – LB/DE – Arizona
52. Ryan Williams – RB – Virginia Tech*
53. Kelvin Sheppard – MLB – LSU
54. Jonathan Baldwin – WR – Pittsburgh*
55. Lance Kendricks – TE - Wisconsin
56. Muhammed Wilkerson – DL – Temple*
57. Bruce Carter – OLB – North Carolina
58. K.J. Wright – OLB – Mississippi State
59. Danny Watkins – OG – Baylor
60. DeMarco Murray – RB – Oklahoma
61. Clint Boling – OL – Georgia
62. Jalil Brown – CB - Colorado
63. Deunta Williams – FS – North Carolina
64. Ben Ijalana – OL – Villanova
65. Jeremy Beal – LB/DE – Oklahoma
66. John Moffitt – OG – Wisconsin
67. Quinton Carter – FS - Oklahoma
68. Kendall Hunter – RB – Oklahoma State
69. Greg Little – WR – North Carolina
70. Greg Romeus – DE – Pittsburgh
71. Jerrel Jernigan – WR – Troy
72. Colin McCarthy – MLB – Miami
73. DeAndre McDaniel – SS – Clemson
74. James Carpenter – OL – Alabama
75. Jurrell Casey – DT – USC*
76. Allen Bailey – DE – Miami
77. Jordan Todman – RB - Connecticut
78. Brandon Burton – CB – Utah*
79. Ahmad Black – DB – Florida
80. Ras-I Dowling – CB – Virginia
81. Curtis Brown – CB – Texas
82. Orlando Franklin – OL – Miami
83. Nate Irving – LB – North Carolina State
84. Johnny Patrick – CB – Lousiville
85. Chykie Brown – CB – Texas
86. Vincent Brown – WR – San Diego State
87. Jabaal Sheard – DE - Pittsburgh
88. Jaiquawan Jarrett – FS – Temple
89. Jarvis Jenkins – DL – Clemson
90. Rodney Hudson – C – Florida State
91. Bilal Powell – RB – Louisville
92. Christian Ponder – QB – Florida State
93. Sam Acho – LB/DE – Texas
94. Jerrell Powe – NT – Mississippi
95. Mark Herzlich – LB – Boston College
96. Austin Pettis – WR – Boise State
97. Rashad Carmichael – CB – Virginia Tech
98. Colin Kaepernick – QB – Nevada
99. Pernell McPhee – DE – Mississippi State
100. Lawrence Guy – DT – Arizona State

- All the rankings above will be posted as the official current rankings at **************.com ... Brought to the DC forums first though!


III. Senior Bowl Risers/Fallers

Players that helped their stock at the Senior Bowl
1. Cameron Jordan – DE - California
2. Leonard Hankerson – WR – Miami
3. Brooks Reed – OLB/DE - Arizona
4. Gabe Carimi – OT – Wisconsin
5. Titus Young – WR – Boise State
6. Mason Foster – LB –Washington
7. Kendric Burney – CB – North Carolina
8. Kendall Hunter – RB – Oklahoma State
9. Kelvin Sheppard – LB – LSU
10. Jalil Brown – CB – Colorado
11 Christian Ballard – DT/DE – Iowa
12. Colin Kaepernick – QB – Nevada
13. Vincent Brown – WR – San Diego State
14. Luke Stocker – TE – Tennessee
15. Danny Watkins – OG – Baylor
16. Colin McCarthy – LB – Miami
17. Roy Helu – RB – Nebraska
18. Quinton Carter – FS – Oklahoma
19. James Carpenter – OL – Alabama
20. Sam Acho – OLB/DE – Texas
21. Phil Taylor – NT – Baylor
22. Clint Boling – OL – Georgia
23. Cedric Thornton – DT – Southern Arkansas
24. Curtis Brown – CB – Texas
25. Derrick Locke – RB – Kentucky

Players that hurt their stock at the Senior Bowl
1. Jake Locker – QB – Washington
2. Allen Bailey – DE – Miami
3. DeMarcus Love – OL – Arkansas
4. Andy Dalton – QB – TCU
5. Greg Jones – LB – Michigan State
6. Noel Devine – RB – West Virginia
7. Pierre Allen – DE – Nebraska
8. Casey Matthews – LB - Oregon
9. Mark Herzlich – LB – Boston College
10. Eric Hagg – S – Nebraska
11. Chris White – LB – Mississippi State
12. Kevin Kowalski – OL – Toledo
13. DeMarcus Van Dyke – CB – Miami
14. Kristofer O’Dowd – C – USC
15. Charles Clay – FB/TE – Tulsa


IV. East-West Shrine Movers

Players that helped their stock
1. David Carter - DT - UCLA
2. Delone Carter - RB - Syracuse
3. Julius Thomas - TE - Portland State
4. Martin Parker - DT - Richmond
5. Jah Reid - OT - Central Florida
6. Terrell McClain - DT - South Florida
7. Shiloh Keo - SS - Idaho
8. Ricky Elmore - DE - Arizona
9. Jordan Cameron - TE - USC
10. Justin Rogers - CB - Richmond
11. Will Rackley - OL - Lehigh
12. Scott Tolzien - QB - Wisconsin
13. Greg Lloyd - LB - Connecticut
14. Josh Thomas - CB - Buffalo
15. David Arkin - OG - Missouri State

Players that hurt their stock
1. Jerrod Johnson - QB - Texas A&M
2. Joseph Barksdale - OT - LSU
3. Pat Devlin - QB - Delaware
4. Jeff Maehl - WR - Oregon
5. Ryan Bartholomew - C - Syracuse
6. Cecil Shorts - WR - Mount Union
7. Matt O'Donnell - OT - Queens (Canada)
8. Armon Binns - WR - Cincinnati
9. Evan Royster - RB - Penn State
10. Randall Hunt - OG - Illinois

IMPORTANT - FINAL NOTE/REQUEST!
I have a request for any and all of you dedicated fans out there. This year I want to put together a pretty comprehensive team draft preview for each team. Simply put, I need help. I need help from you guys, that perfect fan/draftnik hybrid. What I require is a PM titled your team, for example "Baltimore Ravens." I need a rundown on the holes on your depth chart, the areas in which you could use an upgrade and the areas in which your team NEEDS to add a starter for the upcoming season.

If you'd be so kind, offer a little insight to your owner/coach's drafting style. I'll pull up each team's draft history myself and do some close checking. List a few players that you feel perfectly fit your schemes, whether or not they may be significant needs. If someone really wanted to knock it out of the park, when you detail your needs to me, send me an example of a few players in this draft class that seem to fit at the position in your team's schemes in your opinion.

Now, I'm not just going to steal your ideas. I'm going to take your input, expand on it, and make my own judgements along the way. I'll be doing my homework, I just could really use the input from fans that watch every game. I'm not a human TiVo, I watch more college ball than I do pro. I will +rep anyone that sends me this info on their teams and I would greatly appreciate the help. Also, when I post the team previews here I'll be sure to give a special thanks to everyone that may have helped me complete the task. I want to try to get a couple opinions on each team if I can and I'll be doing a lot of the projection/implications myself.

My final goal isn't one too daunting considering some of the behemoth articles I've put together in the past. I'm looking to analyze each team's needs, project a "priority list", and be able to give the fans here some perfect fits for their schemes. I need your help mainly analyzing your teams depth charts and projecting immediate & long-term needs. Be sure to list any Unrestricted Free Agents, as they will be considered due to the fear behind the Collective Bargaining agreement.

For a quick rundown, if you'd like to help me out I need the following things:


Immediate Needs, a starter needs to be added by 2011
Long-term needs, age/future free agent concern
Positions at which an upgrade is possible over tenured players
Brief Description of your team's schemes
Drafting style from Owner/Coach if relevant
A few players you feel fit your schemes
Your upcoming Unrestricted Free Agents (if significant)


Note: There are a few teams I'm already very clear on: Cincinnati and Cleveland being the only two that I feel entirely comfortable with today. I watch almost every game of both teams and have gotten accustomed to the way each organization is run. Obviously with a new HC in Cleveland, I'll have to do some guessing as to their intentions but not so much their needs.

Thank you. I really appreciate any help you guys can offer. The DC forums are still the best place for draft discussion on the net and the site with the best & most knowledgeable fans. When I need help I know where to ask.

TACKLE
01-30-2011, 11:51 PM
That's it? Nice rankings and all but I just wish I could just get some insight somewhere of who the Panthers will take #1 overall. ;)

ThePudge
01-30-2011, 11:58 PM
That's it? Nice rankings and all but I just wish I could just get some insight somewhere of who the Panthers will take #1 overall. ;)

Guaranteed to be up Tuesday morning. It's been done since early Friday morning, around 5 AM, but I've been waiting anxiously to post it. Supposed to be up on DB tomorrow night, so I'm going to post it the following morning here. Might be my best article yet, but it's not for those short on attention or time. Five players profiled and 4500+ words of analysis. I'm excited to get it up on the boards & on the site.

FUNBUNCHER
01-31-2011, 12:06 AM
Incredible player compilation Pudge, once again!

How to view the RB depth and which position do you feel is the deepest heading into the draft???

JPP90
01-31-2011, 12:16 AM
You really believe Jake Locker hurt himself the most at the Senior Bowl. He had his ups and downs, did not blow anyone away but he didn't do bad in the game and had his good days during the week. You can do better than that. I'm curious how Charles Clay hurt himself too. I heard nothing but good things about him during the game. Casey Matthews has no business on the "hurt" list either, unless you qualify "showed he's not his brother". He did as expected..showed he isn't the player his brother is but he's a solid ILB with great instincts. Lawrence Wilson didn't make your top 25 guys that helped themselves at the Senior Bowl...but he made Kirwan's top 10. One final thing...Brandon Hogan. You don't think torn ACL and all that he's one of the top 25 CB's? I know he has horrible character but the guy is a great cover corner. He'd have looked awesome at the Senior Bowl had he been healthy.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 12:34 AM
You really believe Jake Locker hurt himself the most at the Senior Bowl. He had his ups and downs, did not blow anyone away but he didn't do bad in the game and had his good days during the week. You can do better than that. I'm curious how Charles Clay hurt himself too. I heard nothing but good things about him during the game. Casey Matthews has no business on the "hurt" list either, unless you qualify "showed he's not his brother". He did as expected..showed he isn't the player his brother is but he's a solid ILB with great instincts. Lawrence Wilson didn't make your top 25 guys that helped themselves at the Senior Bowl...but he made Kirwan's top 10. One final thing...Brandon Hogan. You don't think torn ACL and all that he's one of the top 25 CB's? I know he has horrible character but the guy is a great cover corner. He'd have looked awesome at the Senior Bowl had he been healthy.

The numbers were kind an unofficial thing. I based it as much on the profile of the player as how much they hurt themselves. I think Jake Locker proved everyone right that said at this point he's a Second Round value. I had him in my Top 15 before. He took a fairly dramatic slide down my board, into the Early-2nd Round value.

Lawrence Wilson is still a bit small for my liking. I see him as fringe 3rd/4th Round guy in the upcoming draft, and that's just about where I saw him before the week. If he's able to bulk up to roughly 235 and flash the same athleticism in agility drills then I'll be moving him up my board.

Though Tulsa's Charles Clay was able to put together a decent game, I heard of several reports saying he looked out of place in practice. I think he came in to the week needing to prove to scouts that he had a position in the NFL, whether it be H-Back, Tight End, or Fullback. At this point I think it's clear he only has potential at H-Back and will need to improve dramatically as both a pass and run blocker if he wants to see the field.

Casey Matthews is a guy that many hoped could be a solid 3rd Round talent, but I think he showed this week that he has athletic/size limitations and may never be more than a reserve player. He's more in the 5th Round range, I think, after an average week.

Brandon Hogan should be in the CB rankings. Without looking at them I think he's around 15th at the position. Big talent, injury/character concerns are very valid.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 12:37 AM
Incredible player compilation Pudge, once again!

How to view the RB depth and which position do you feel is the deepest heading into the draft???

I love the Running Back depth in this year's draft. I think the Top 17 or so on my board have the ability to become contributors at the next level sometime in the next two-three years. The 2 Back systems we're seeing more around the league, along with the amount of injury/turnover at the position, opens the door for a lot of young guys to produce. I don't think it's all too strong at the top, though I'm still a big Mark Ingram fan and I think he could make a great NFL back.

Cunningham
01-31-2011, 12:43 AM
good stuff, pudge. i'm wondering why you don't see martez in a 43. is it because he's more of a downhill player? also, does late second/early third seem like the right range for sturdivant? could he end up being a legitimate plus starter at the next level?

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 12:46 AM
Brooks Reed has certainly made a jump haha! I'm really starting to fall in love with him as a prospect and I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one to think he's helped himself as much as he has. It was an exciting week of practices and a great game for him. I can honestly see him going in the back half of the first round if he comes out and does what is expected of him at the combine. Really a natural at 3-4 OLB.

I like what you've done with your five technique rankings quite a bit.

Good stuff as always man. I think the Locker slide is a little too big for my preference, but I can see the justification without a problem.

JPP90
01-31-2011, 12:53 AM
The numbers were kind an unofficial thing. I based it as much on the profile of the player as how much they hurt themselves. I think Jake Locker proved everyone right that said at this point he's a Second Round value. I had him in my Top 15 before. He took a fairly dramatic slide down my board, into the Early-2nd Round value.

Lawrence Wilson is still a bit small for my liking. I see him as fringe 3rd/4th Round guy in the upcoming draft, and that's just about where I saw him before the week. If he's able to bulk up to roughly 235 and flash the same athleticism in agility drills then I'll be moving him up my board.

Though Tulsa's Charles Clay was able to put together a decent game, I heard of several reports saying he looked out of place in practice. I think he came in to the week needing to prove to scouts that he had a position in the NFL, whether it be H-Back, Tight End, or Fullback. At this point I think it's clear he only has potential at H-Back and will need to improve dramatically as both a pass and run blocker if he wants to see the field.

Casey Matthews is a guy that many hoped could be a solid 3rd Round talent, but I think he showed this week that he has athletic/size limitations and may never be more than a reserve player. He's more in the 5th Round range, I think, after an average week.

Brandon Hogan should be in the CB rankings. Without looking at them I think he's around 15th at the position. Big talent, injury/character concerns are very valid.

I guess we have to agree to disagree on Locker. I don't think he hurt himself as dramatically as a lot of fans think he did. You'll still see him in the 1st round. QBs with his upside and his arm to make all the throws don't slide out of the 1st round. His issues are correctable in the right system. A team confident in their system and their coaching staff can make a star out him. His learning curve is definently lower than that of Tebow and of what Newton will face. You think Locker needs to develop, wait til you see Newton play NFL QB. If the NFL was from the shoulders down, that ranking might be good.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 01:01 AM
good stuff, pudge. i'm wondering why you don't see martez in a 43. is it because he's more of a downhill player? also, does late second/early third seem like the right range for sturdivant? could he end up being a legitimate plus starter at the next level?

I think Martez is a really good fit at Strongside Linebacker in the 4-3 for most schemes/styles. He's further down in my 4-3 rankings purely because I think Miller, Foster, and Ayers are better fits in the system. It's close between he and Ayers for me. I think Miller and Foster are the two best pros at the position in the 4-3 front, both likely at Weakside Linebacker.

I'm a big fan of Quan Sturdivant. I think he should come off the board by the middle of the 2nd Round, though I could see him slipping if he's unable to put in a good showing in Indianapolis. Really instinctual 'Mike' backer who seems to be a great leader and a guy who is always around the ball. He's a defensive leader and I think he's going to be a heck of a starter in the NFL. I'm upset he wasn't there at the Senior Bowl.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 01:13 AM
Brooks Reed has certainly made a jump haha! I'm really starting to fall in love with him as a prospect and I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one to think he's helped himself as much as he has. It was an exciting week of practices and a great game for him. I can honestly see him going in the back half of the first round if he comes out and does what is expected of him at the combine. Really a natural at 3-4 OLB.

I like what you've done with your five technique rankings quite a bit.

Good stuff as always man. I think the Locker slide is a little too big for my preference, but I can see the justification without a problem.

I think Locker pretty much confirmed for us that he is a guy with questionable pocket presence and shaky accuracy at this point. I think he has the potential to be a good starting Quarterback in the future, but he's not one I'd personally take in the Top 10 if I were a struggling franchise today.

His mechanics are obviously much better than a guy like Tebow's, but for whatever reason he just doesn't appear to have as good a feel for the game. Locker shows all the signs of a QB that played behind a poor OL and right now he has yet to prove that he can really be a dangerous passer capable of finding a consistent rhythm.

I still like a lot about him, but I think are definite concerns that people need to acknowledge. He's obviously a very smart kid, very dedicated, and extremely competitive. He has all the tools you could ask for physically and athletically. I really like him if he's able to go to a place where he's able to sit for a year or two. I think he needs to build up some confidence and be thrown in when he's ready, so he'll be less likely to return to old habits when things aren't going well. I think he's worth a pick between 25-35. He'll probably wind up going between 10 and 25. He's definitely a project QB at this point.

Master Exploder
01-31-2011, 01:21 AM
I actually thought DeMarcus Van Dyke helped his stock at the Senior Bowl. What part of his play did you think hurt him? I thought he did an excellent job in shutting down Titus Young and from all of the reports that I've read, everyone was saying he had a great week of practices.

Also, why do you think that Taiwan Jones is higher than a guy like Derrick Locke? I understand Locke doesn't have ideal size, but I don't see what's up with all the hype in Taiwan Jones.

JPP90
01-31-2011, 01:29 AM
I think Locker pretty much confirmed for us that he is a guy with questionable pocket presence and shaky accuracy at this point. I think he has the potential to be a good starting Quarterback in the future, but he's not one I'd personally take in the Top 10 if I were a struggling franchise today.

His mechanics are obviously much better than a guy like Tebow's, but for whatever reason he just doesn't appear to have as good a feel for the game. Locker shows all the signs of a QB that played behind a poor OL and right now he has yet to prove that he can really be a dangerous passer capable of finding a consistent rhythm.

I still like a lot about him, but I think are definite concerns that people need to acknowledge. He's obviously a very smart kid, very dedicated, and extremely competitive. He has all the tools you could ask for physically and athletically. I really like him if he's able to go to a place where he's able to sit for a year or two. I think he needs to build up some confidence and be thrown in when he's ready, so he'll be less likely to return to old habits when things aren't going well. I think he's worth a pick between 25-35. He'll probably wind up going between 10 and 25. He's definitely a project QB at this point.

You're never going to be a "dangerous passer" playing at Washington. He had his moments at Washington but no one is going to look great week in and week out with their lack of WRs and protection...and lame play-calling. If you are to judge him by not putting up huge stats at ashington and by a week of all star game practices, you're not judging him fairly. Its not about he did or didn't do now, its what he's capable of. And the cast around him in the NFL is going to be 1000 times better than he ever had at Washington, and he's gonna have the opportunity to work within a teams system and with their players for longer than 4 days. You can't say he needs 2 years to sit because you don't know what he could be like after 2 months in Minnesota working everyday with Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Bernard Berrian, Visanthe Shaincoe. Arizona with Fitzgerald and Breaston. He could be a fine rookie QB working with guys like that everyday. Of course, put him in Carolina with Armanti Edwards and David Gettis and I'm sure your point would be made...he'd struggle. But its all in where you go.

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 01:30 AM
I think Locker pretty much confirmed for us that he is a guy with questionable pocket presence and shaky accuracy at this point. I think he has the potential to be a good starting Quarterback in the future, but he's not one I'd personally take in the Top 10 if I were a struggling franchise today.
I think that's fair. I sort of disagree with the questionable pocket pressence thing a bit. He always keep his eyes down field and looks to run second. Might not be Tom Brady in terms of feeling the rush, but I wouldn't call that a knock. He was worse this year than he was last in that category though.

Every quarterback prospect is probably better off not being taken by a struggling franchise, but I do agree that if you put Locker in a bad situation early he's the type you may lose. Hopefully he goes somewhere with a strong offensive line and a good quarterback coach.

His mechanics are obviously much better than a guy like Tebow's, but for whatever reason he just doesn't appear to have as good a feel for the game. Locker shows all the signs of a QB that played behind a poor OL and right now he has yet to prove that he can really be a dangerous passer capable of finding a consistent rhythm.

I still like a lot about him, but I think are definite concerns that people need to acknowledge. He's obviously a very smart kid, very dedicated, and extremely competitive. He has all the tools you could ask for physically and athletically. I really like him if he's able to go to a place where he's able to sit for a year or two. I think he needs to build up some confidence and be thrown in when he's ready, so he'll be less likely to return to old habits when things aren't going well. I think he's worth a pick between 25-35. He'll probably wind up going between 10 and 25. He's definitely a project QB at this point.

The thing that helps him the most in spite of the obvious athletic gifts are his intangibles. If we were talking about someone who wasn't a hard worker or wasn't the most cerebral guy in the world it would be another story for me. In the end, that's why a team will take him in the first round in conjunction with the talent. Quarterback rankings are going to come down to preference this year in my opinion, at least with those top four guys. There's not one of them who I think is unquestionably better than the others in the eyes of NFL teams right now(although I could be wrong, just the vibe I'm getting at this moment and the tid bits we're picking up in the media). These quarterbacks are going to be different places on everyone boards and with a little chaos I could still see Locker going as high as Washington because of the level of interest they've shown in him. He's pretty much the prototype in terms of what Shanahan looks for. It would take a good showing in workouts and at the combine, but I still think it's in play. Washington might be able to trade down to get them if they can find a partner(although looking at it early I can't see any obvious situation where that happens).

It's certainly still interesting. I think this week was useful for us though in terms of checking in with where he's at and what direction he's heading in. I'm still optimistic about the future, but it's all about the right fit and situation for him.

TACKLE
01-31-2011, 01:38 AM
24. Mason Foster – OLB – Washington

Congratulations! You win at life!

In whatever he's been asked to do, he's exceeded expectation. I expect he'll do the same thing at the combine. He followed a terrific senior season with a great Senior Bowl week. He was flying around and was always around the ball in the game. He's very high energy player who going to be a guy who just racks up tackles and makes plays for whoever drafts him.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 01:44 AM
I actually thought DeMarcus Van Dyke helped his stock at the Senior Bowl. What part of his play did you think hurt him? I thought he did an excellent job in shutting down Titus Young and from all of the reports that I've read, everyone was saying he had a great week of practices.

Also, why do you think that Taiwan Jones is higher than a guy like Derrick Locke? I understand Locke doesn't have ideal size, but I don't see what's up with all the hype in Taiwan Jones.

I think he hurt himself in the East-West Shrine week and Senior Bowl week actually. He's a long player, with decent agility and cover skills; however, he lacks physicality in a big way and is far too skinny to play in the NFL at this point. The guy is 6'1 175. He's getting pushed around at the Senior Bowl by bigger receivers and will absolutely be picked on at the next level. I don't know how much his frame can hold or if he can keep the same agility, but I don't think he's more than a 5th-6th Rounder at this point. Hopefully he can get up to at least 180 by the NFL Combine.

Taiwan Jones looks like a very explosive and dynamic young back. He's dominated his level of competition and was a threat to score every time he touched the ball. Based on his frame and running style, I think Jones has the potential get up to as much as 215. Right now I'd guess he played closer to 195 in college and could show up at the Combine weighing in at roughly 6'0 200 pounds. He needs to prove he's an NFL-caliber athlete at the Combine and at his Pro Day. With so much injury/turnover at the RB position, Jones is the type of guy that could make an impact sooner than some realize. Personally I see him going in the Early 4th, barring a terrific/terrible workout.

I like Locke and he's a guy I think helped himself, but he's a guy I fear won't be more than a change-of-pace/Special Teams back. Definitely a guy I expect to be off the board by the end of the 4th Round and a guy that might be able to help the team that drafts him in a number of ways. Size/durability is definitely the concern if you're projecting him to potentially be a 10-15 carry back.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 02:01 AM
You can't say he needs 2 years to sit because you don't know what he could be like after 2 months in Minnesota working everyday with Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Bernard Berrian, Visanthe Shaincoe. Arizona with Fitzgerald and Breaston. He could be a fine rookie QB working with guys like that everyday. Of course, put him in Carolina with Armanti Edwards and David Gettis and I'm sure your point would be made...he'd struggle. But its all in where you go.

I'll tell you what I see, and you can choose to agree or disagree, but at least you'll know my take. I see a player that has learned to be frantic in the pocket. When he senses a pass-rush he typically tries to make a play with his feet and escape the pocket, rather than stand up and deliver a pass. I have no doubts that he's a very tough person and a tough player, but he doesn't stand in the pocket and take hits much. He often plays erratically in the face of trouble and must learn to trust his reads.

I'd agree that he didn't get a fair shot playing at Washington. He was bound to develop these habits with the supporting cast there. No matter who is drafting him, whether it be Minnesota, Arizona, etc., I think they'd be better off waiting a year to start Locker. I think he needs to develop confidence in his playbook, the players around him, and hit the film room like crazy to gain a better understanding for the defensive side of the ball. If he's rushed into action I really fear he's going back to old habits. Players like Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, and Carson Palmer gained a lot of valuable NFL experience before starting a game.

He has potential to be a very good starting Quarterback, but I absolutely think he's a project at this point. He's a raw talent with all the intangibles you look for, but right now he's just not a strong pocket passer and his accuracy/throwing rhythm has failed to develop much because of that. If I were guaranteed that he would get his year to sit then I'd back him as a Top 15 pick, as I think it'd be that beneficial for him. A lot of QBs that are rushed into action too early fall into old habits that can really stunt their growth as players. You're right in saying it's largely the team that drafts his. Regardless, I don't think this is a guy that is best off playing much this season.

JPP90
01-31-2011, 02:12 AM
That really holds true for every rookie QB..even Luck would have been better off sitting a yesr and watching, learning than playing from day 1. You put Jake Locker in a situation like Mark Sanchez with huge talent around him and safe play-calling, I think he could respectable as a rookie. Maybe more. I see what you're saying about the pocket awareness and I do hope he isn't a lost cause like David Carr became exiting Houston...he's still a young guy and salvagable. The good thing about it at least is that he's at his best throwing on the run outside the pocket. Its a skill he got a whole lot of regular practice in every week throughout his career. He was always on the run and throwing on the move. Hopefully from this point on he can coached to trust his protection and scan the field.

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 02:18 AM
Taiwan Jones looks like a very explosive and dynamic young back. He's dominated his level of competition and was a threat to score every time he touched the ball. Based on his frame and running style, I think Jones has the potential get up to as much as 215. Right now I'd guess he played closer to 195 in college and could show up at the Combine weighing in at roughly 6'0 200 pounds. He needs to prove he's an NFL-caliber athlete at the Combine and at his Pro Day. With so much injury/turnover at the RB position, Jones is the type of guy that could make an impact sooner than some realize. Personally I see him going in the Early 4th, barring a terrific/terrible workout.


I like Jones too a lot too and that's about the right area for him if he runs well, which I expect that he won't have a problem doing. Not too many guys can just come out of first gear and just burst like he can. The type of guy who can just accelerate through a crack and leave you twenty yards behind him in a hurry. Still has to prove he cant take NFL hits and be an effective inside runner. What I like about him is that he never really stays too far away from north/south. For a guy who can make people miss in the open field he's pretty decisive. One cut and get past the line of scrimmage. Could be a very good back in a zone blocking system with some added weight for that reason.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 02:23 AM
That really holds true for every rookie QB..even Luck would have been better off sitting a yesr and watching, learning than playing from day 1. You put Jake Locker in a situation like Mark Sanchez with huge talent around him and safe play-calling, I think he could respectable as a rookie. Maybe more. I see what you're saying about the pocket awareness and I do hope he isn't a lost cause like David Carr became exiting Houston...he's still a young guy and salvagable. The good thing about it at least is that he's at his best throwing on the run outside the pocket. Its a skill he got a whole lot of regular practice in every week throughout his career. He was always on the run and throwing on the move. Hopefully from this point on he can coached to trust his protection and scan the field.

I think Sanchez is a funny name for you to bring up. Talk about a guy who really looked confident and in control in the pocket. Of course, he had a pocket along with several NFL linemen and receivers. Mark never had those poor habits in college in a large part because he was able to trust the players around him. Likewise, Sam Bradford came from a strong program with a lot of NFL talent and built a tremendous amount of confidence in the pocket.

Locker can throw on the run, but I question his ability to think & throw on the move. I think for him it all starts with getting more comfortable in the pocket. I think that involves building confidence in the players around you, the game itself, and the tendencies of your opponents. I fear Locker is the type of player that could relapse to bad habits under pressure. He just needs reps and a bit of time. Basically, I don't think he's ready to be an NFL starting Quarterback just yet; if a team wants to see him reach his true potential they ought to bring in a veteran to start for a year.

bullg8rdaddy
01-31-2011, 02:26 AM
Why Clayborn over my boy Aldon, Pudge?

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 02:36 AM
Why Clayborn over my boy Aldon, Pudge?

I'm not in love with Aldon quite yet. Maybe I need to track down more Missouri film from 09', because that was his year. This past year, much like Clayborn, he failed to show up a lot of the time. Smith is still a weak run-defender than can be blown off the ball by better run-blocking Tackles. Even a Tight End may be counted on to seal Smith.

I don't think he grades out quite as highly as Jason Pierre-Paul a year ago and when I watched their respective tape, JPP was the more active and influential player. It's clear Aldon Smith has a lot of upside as a pass-rusher but right now he lacks diversity in his arsenal. He's long, he's good in pursuit, he has good agility for his size, and he possess some nice closing speed. It's a good combination, but there has to be more. I'm waiting on the Combine to determine if he might be a better fit in the 3-4 scheme. When all is said and done, he's probably a Top 20 pick, but I don't think I'll have him graded that highly unless I see something else on film (or something spectacular at in Indy.)

Clayborn is a player that I think will be a good starter in the NFL. I was extremely disappointed every time I watched him this season because he was incredibly dominant the year before. He's a great fit at Left End in a 4-3 scheme because of his stout, hands, and anchor strength. I don't think highly of him as a pass-rusher in the NFL, but he should be a very solid all-around player provided he's playing his hardest. I'm excited to see how in shape he is at the NFL Combine.

bullg8rdaddy
01-31-2011, 02:42 AM
Exactly what I saw re: Clayborn in the games I watched. Was he injured? And for all the talk from some folks, you would swear that he was double teamed 100% of the time and his line mates were left to increase their production, which the numbers do not reflect, IMHO.

I agree 100% with what you said re: Aldon, but homeboy was hurt, so I give him a pass and a attaboy for coming back so soon from the fracture in his lower leg. :)

Here are some complete 2010 games of Aldon that I have watched, although I'm pretty sure you have already seen them (but just in case):

Oklahoma - http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=71863&league=NCAAF

Nebraska - http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=52587&league=NCAAF

Texas Tech - http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=82509&league=NCAAF

Iowa - http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=100472&league=NCAAF

Iamcanadian
01-31-2011, 05:51 AM
Love the hard work you put in but I have some questions re: the Senior Bowl Week


I'm wondering why you didn't mention the following as Senior Bowl improvers:

John Moffitt OG - You moved him way up in your top 100
D.J. Williams TE - very impressive week
Greg Sallas WR - ditto
Von Miller OLB - proved he can play in pass coverage making him much more attractive to 4-3 teams and is a top 5 talent as a pass rusher
Kendall Hunter RB - definitely moved up the charts when he demonstrated he can pass block
Quinton Carter S - solid performance

Why was Danny Watkins only #15 on your improvement list, seemed to me he could be #1.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 06:32 AM
Love the hard work you put in but I have some questions re: the Senior Bowl Week


I'm wondering why you didn't mention the following as Senior Bowl improvers:

John Moffitt OG - You moved him way up in your top 100
D.J. Williams TE - very impressive week
Greg Sallas WR - ditto
Von Miller OLB - proved he can play in pass coverage making him much more attractive to 4-3 teams and is a top 5 talent as a pass rusher
Kendall Hunter RB - definitely moved up the charts when he demonstrated he can pass block
Quinton Carter S - solid performance

Why was Danny Watkins only #15 on your improvement list, seemed to me he could be #1.

I could have kept going with my Winners list I feel like. In some way, most everyone at the Senior Bowl either hurt or helped their stock. The numerical order itself is very unofficial. It's hard to determine who helped/hurt themselves the most. It's a very loose system based on how much money they may have earned/lost, what kind of profile player the guy was, and how much we were able to learn. I wouldn't read too far into the numbers though as I more or less just used the top of my head in determining them.

Moffitt was definitely a winner. He was able to confirm what he'd been doing all season, which is something you love to see. He was able to show at the weigh in that he's a pretty enormous guy with NFL size at 6'4 315. He proved all week that he'll be a candidate to start his rookie season. He may lack elite athleticism, but it appears to be adequate. He fits well at Left Guard for a run-heavy team that prefers some size on the line. He was a winner, but since he more or less just confirmed what we saw all year, I didn't include him. (Though I included others that maybe surprised me a little bit more by confirming their worth)

I didn't include D.J. Williams because I expected him to play well. The issue is: where is this guy going to fit in the NFL? He's very similar to Aaron Hernandez, but when you really look at it, not many teams can take advantage of a Hernandez-like player. It takes a wide-open passing attack to utilize a player with this skill-set. I don't think he comes off the board until the Fourth Round. Measuring under 6'2 hurts his odds to ever really play a traditional Tight End role.

Greg Salas had a pretty good week and showed he belonged as a possession receiver. He showed clean hands, the ability to find soft spots in coverage, and reason to believe he could be an asset in the slot. I think Salas is kind of a T.J. Houshmanzadeh type. I still am highly concerned with his quickness however and his ability to separate. He definitely wasn't a loser this week, but I'd still be surprised to see him go in the Top 3 Rounds after he runs a 4.6+ at the NFL Combine. I moved him up on my board, but I am hesitant about doing so.

Von Miller showed elite athleticism I really didn't know he had. He appears to be one of the most physically gifted defenders in this draft class. Right now, he's still mostly just speed and explosiveness though. In Mobile he showed he still does not play disciplined or technical football necessarily; he had his share of struggles/success in coverage, but still doesn't appear to be great at setting the edge. At 6'2 240, Miller will probably run around a 4.5 and be drafted very highly. In terms of making money, he certainly did that at the Senior Bowl. I just feel like he needed to prove somethings that he didn't wind up proving. A Top 10 guy to a lot of people, a Top 20 value to me.

Agreed on Hunter. He showed a lot of burst/explosiveness, was well built for his size, and showed a complete game with the ability to pass-block. Could be the next Ray Rice. He's on my risers list at 8. I don't see him making it out of the 3rd and a team could pull the trigger as early as the Early-Mid 2nd if he's able to crack a 4.5 40.

Quinton Carter also made the list at number 18. He had a good showing from what I understand. He was imposing physically and showed surprising speed. He moved up on my board. I'll be keeping a close eye on him at the NFL Combine as I want to see how his backpedal/hips rank among the other Safeties in his class. He was the best Safety in Mobile from what I understand though and was a First Team All-American this past year. A guy that will have the chance to really rise up in weak class.

Danny Watkins had a heck of a week. By all accounts, he was one of the best linemen consistently. He played himself into the 2nd-3rd Round for sure. Age has got to be a concern for Watkins though, as he'll be a 27 year old rookie. At the end of the day, I think he assured himself a spot on the draft's Second Day, but didn't have as much potential to really fly up boards due to his age. Should be a starter somewhere at Left Guard next season.

Umoro
01-31-2011, 07:02 AM
Cameron Heyward a better prospect at *any* position than Cameron Jordan?

Justin Houston ranked as the best 3-4 OLB prospect in the draft?

Von Miller only 5th in 3-4 OLB rankings but #1 overall in 4-3 OLB rankings despite being aruably the best pure pass rusher in the draft class? Because he flashed the ability to play the 4-3 OLB position at the Senior Bowl?

Come on now.

RealityCheck
01-31-2011, 08:54 AM
If you still have Jake Locker over Kaepernick, Gabbert and Ponder after this atrocious week you are obviously blind.

Black Bolt
01-31-2011, 08:58 AM
Guaranteed to be up Tuesday morning. It's been done since early Friday morning, around 5 AM, but I've been waiting anxiously to post it. Supposed to be up on DB tomorrow night, so I'm going to post it the following morning here. Might be my best article yet, but it's not for those short on attention or time. Five players profiled and 4500+ words of analysis. I'm excited to get it up on the boards & on the site.

Pretty incredible. I'll sent you input for the Raiders tonight.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 09:33 AM
Cameron Heyward a better prospect at *any* position than Cameron Jordan?

Justin Houston ranked as the best 3-4 OLB prospect in the draft?

Von Miller only 5th in 3-4 OLB rankings but #1 overall in 4-3 OLB rankings despite being aruably the best pure pass rusher in the draft class? Because he flashed the ability to play the 4-3 OLB position at the Senior Bowl?

Come on now.

Cameron Heyward is ABSOLUTELY a better 5-Tech prospect than Cameron Jordan in my mind. Jordan is a more of a penetrator by nature. He's athletic, he's quick, and he's going to excel in a one-gap scheme whether it be a 4-3 or in Dallas in their variation of the 3-4 defense. I don't want to make it sound like I don't think Jordan can play the position, because he certainly could, but his skill-set is better suited for a flexible role in a one-gap scheme. He'll be drafted in the Top 11 or so to play in a one-gap scheme.

Cameron Heyward on the other hand is lost in a 4-3 system. He's very tall for a 3-Tech and not nearly athletic/quick enough to be a full-time end. He happens to be the best natural fit for the 5-Tech position that I've ever come across while evaluating the draft. He's very long, strong, and can anchor against double teams. His best fit comes in your typical 3-4 as a two-gap Defensive End. This is a guy that has consistently dominated in big games and on the biggest of stages. I think he could very well be a Top 10 selection to a team like San Francisco or Washington. Tyson Jackson was not quite the 5-Tech prospect Heyward is, yet he went 3rd Overall in 2009. I doubt Cam goes quite that high but expect him to have MUCH more value to 3-4 teams than 4-3 teams. He's the most NFL-ready two-gap end I've ever come across.

I've liked Justin Houston over Von Miller as rush-LBer the entire process so far and only a flop in Indy on Houston's part would make me reconsider. Miller still struggles to set the edge, a primary responsibility for 3-4 OLBs. He also tips the scales at only 237 pounds. He'll need to bulk up, learn the position, and show he can establish the edge from his Linebacker position. Right now, most of his game is simply speed & athleticism. There were many games this year that Miller looked lost. To be honest, I think he's just as good a 3-4 OLB prospect as he is a 4-3 OLB prospect. I simply don't grade him as highly as others do. I think he's a Top 20 prospect in both schemes, but it appears to be a stronger 3-4 OLB class than 4-3 class.

Now, to Justin Houston, perhaps this class' most overlooked top prospect. His production simply dwarfed that of Miller this past season. Georgia ran variations of the 3-4 and Houston established himself as the best pass-rusher in the SEC. He may lack Miller's raw athleticism, but he put more heat on the Quarterback from his Linebacker position than anyone in the country. He has great size for the position, has a great first step, and is terrific in pursuit. He can set the edge, he can get after the Quarterback, and he can step in and play right away. I see him almost purely as a 3-4 rush LBer and a pretty damn good one.

For the record, I think Miller could come off the board as early as the Top 5 Overall. He had a great Senior Bowl week and he's going to be one of the standouts at the NFL Combine. On the other hand, Houston will go 1st Round but how high depends on how he works out in Indianapolis. I don't think there's much of a chance that Houston will be drafted before Miller, but he's a player I like a whole lot coming off the edge in a 3-4. Right now I think Houston's size & style simply translate better to the NFL game. Von Miller probably has him beat on upside though.

The two are graded VERY closely on my board and there isn't really a tremendous amount of differentiation between the Top 5 3-4 OLBs on my board.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 09:47 AM
If you still have Jake Locker over Kaepernick, Gabbert and Ponder after this atrocious week you are obviously blind.

Because the Senior Bowl week somehow trumps what we've seen the past few seasons? Locker has real concerns, but he's not a complete mechanical project like Kaepernick. Relative to expectations, Kaepernick and Ponder had better weeks than Jake. Christian Ponder, however, lacks arm strength and like Locker struggles with his decision making. His upside is not as high and he's still nothing more than a 3rd/4th Rounder. Like Locker, Kaepernick lacks a whole lot of pocket presence at this point. Unlike Jake, Kaepernick has an elongated release and has still got a lot to learn mechanically.

I don't remember seeing anywhere describe Locker's week as atrocious. Like everyone there, Jake struggled with his accuracy a bit and found it tough to get into a rhythm throwing from the pocket. Most people on hand described his week as very up-and-down, like his career at Washington. Accuracy and pocket presence are still a concern and it's pretty clear that he needs a year to develop before seeing NFL action. Still, he's a guy with all the tools both physically and intangibly and he's flashed the talent of a franchise Quarterback. Really just needs to work on his confidence in the pocket and learn to trust his reads/the players around him. He hurt his stock this week and there may be teams that grade him in the 3rd Round, but I still think his upside ranks up there with the best in this class. Just a little further behind than most of us thought...

I still don't think Blaine Gabbert is a 1st Round-worthy Quarterback. I've never seen such a good pass-rushing QB. Nobody seems to put the heat on Gabbert as much as Blaine himself. His football IQ worries me as his pocket awareness is simply awful. His accuracy is something few people have cared to put under the microscope. His deep ball leaves something to be desired. He has a reputation for being immature on & off the field and when you really break it down, you'll realize he was far from a very effective college Quarterback. You can keep drinking the kool-aid but I don't think NFL teams will be as influenced by Todd McShay's board as some fans appear to be.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 10:07 AM
Pretty incredible. I'll sent you input for the Raiders tonight.

Thank you, much appreciated. I hadn't really gotten to watch more than a couple Raiders games this past year. I can't wait to unload this #1 Pick article. Anyone who read my article on St. Louis' #1 Pick a year ago will know the basic format I'm using. I got it right in early February last year and I'm hoping to nail it early once again. This year's article profiles 5 players that I see as in the running to be the 1st Overall Pick, where last year's was only 4. It's lengthy but should be easy to find what you're looking for.

Crossing my fingers hoping that I will be able to post it tomorrow. Scheduled to appear on ************** later tonight where it'll be all done up graphically with pictures & page breaks. As soon as it's up over there, I'll get it posted here. There's still no better place to talk NFL Draft than these forums.

JohnCandy
01-31-2011, 10:37 AM
I think we need to stop looking at Marcus Cannon as an OT, because he is the 6th best OT in the draft.

But most teams will look at him as an OG, where I thin his size and movement skills make him the #1 OG.

Where is Marcus Cannon ranked in your OG rankings?

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 10:41 AM
I still don't think Blaine Gabbert is a 1st Round-worthy Quarterback. I've never seen such a good pass-rushing QB. Nobody seems to put the heat on Gabbert as much as Blaine himself. His football IQ worries me as his pocket awareness is simply awful. His accuracy is something few people have cared to put under the microscope. His deep ball leaves something to be desired. He has a reputation for being immature on & off the field and when you really break it down, you'll realize he was far from a very effective college Quarterback. You can keep drinking the kool-aid but I don't think NFL teams will be as influenced by Todd McShay's board as some fans appear to be.

This is something that's being really underplayed right now. People build him up as a franchise quarterback off the field, but it doesn't seem to be the case. He ran into some trouble with the law more than once if I remember correctly and has been described as immature and a little arrogant from what I've heard.

I really don't think you can pick a quarterback to save your franchise when they give up on plays consistently as Gabbert does. He plays the game like he thinks he's Mike Vick in Madden the year he was on the cover.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 10:51 AM
I think we need to stop looking at Marcus Cannon as an OT, because he is the 6th best OT in the draft.

But most teams will look at him as an OG, where I thin his size and movement skills make him the #1 OG.

Where is Marcus Cannon ranked in your OG rankings?

I'd love to have seen him at the Senior Bowl showing off his versatility. He'd probably rank 2nd for me among Guard prospects right now. I'm not one of those that think Mike Pouncey is a 1st Rounder, but he's a very good Left Guard prospect that has really excelled playing his natural position. I think it's still unclear what Cannon will play in the NFL, though I think his size and athleticism make him more of a valuably commodity at Tackle. I can't say that I think he's a better Guard prospect than Tackle. He's never played Guard and he's got a lot of upside at Right Tackle. I'd draft him higher to play Tackle than I would Guard.

If he really measures in at 6'5+ 335+ and is able to showcase athleticism & quick feet he may rise to the top of some teams' Offensive Tackle board. I'm going to revisit him on tape very soon and try to get a better idea for him as a potential NFL Tackle. I think at this point his greatest upside comes out there.

RealityCheck
01-31-2011, 10:57 AM
After thinking about it for a while, I've just came to an ultimate conclusion that no QB is worthy of a 1st round grade this year.

ThePudge
01-31-2011, 11:07 AM
After thinking about it for a while, I've just came to an ultimate conclusion that no QB is worthy of a 1st round grade this year.

That's one conclusion. Personally I think only Cameron Newton is worth a 1st Round grade, but I could see as many as 3 Quarterbacks go in that top round. I'd put 2nd Round grades on Mallett, Locker, and Gabbert; however, demand is very high and this is a weak draft class.

JohnCandy
01-31-2011, 11:15 AM
I'd love to have seen him at the Senior Bowl showing off his versatility. He'd probably rank 2nd for me among Guard prospects right now. I'm not one of those that think Mike Pouncey is a 1st Rounder, but he's a very good Left Guard prospect that has really excelled playing his natural position. I think it's still unclear what Cannon will play in the NFL, though I think his size and athleticism make him more of a valuably commodity at Tackle. I can't say that I think he's a better Guard prospect than Tackle. He's never played Guard and he's got a lot of upside at Right Tackle. I'd draft him higher to play Tackle than I would Guard.

If he really measures in at 6'5+ 335+ and is able to showcase athleticism & quick feet he may rise to the top of some teams' Offensive Tackle board. I'm going to revisit him on tape very soon and try to get a better idea for him as a potential NFL Tackle. I think at this point his greatest upside comes out there.

I think it is the versatility that will make him a late 1st round prospect for a team in need of OL help.

I have seen limited tape on him, but against Wisconsin I was not in love with his kick slide. He has great feet, but I really do not think he has the discipline to play OT in the pros with the crossing over that I have seen.

I am interested to see what you think with more tape study as I do not have access to a lot of TCU games.

FlyingElvis
01-31-2011, 11:44 AM
Solid work, as always.


Nice notes on Heyward / Jordan. I'm intrigued by both and would not be upset at all to see Jordan working as a 2 gap 5 tech for the Pats. One of these two need to be the pick for NE this year, as Wilfork playing DE is something I'd rather not see any more. Every time he's lined up there it sreams roster deficiency to me, which makes DE a clear top target, I think.

49erNation85
01-31-2011, 11:49 AM
Very nice work on the rankings pudge.Do you have any in site on where SF might draft a QB depending on who is there at number 7 spot?Trying to figure out weather a first round QB is worth the risk or wait until the second round for either Ponder or Stanzi maybe Mallet .Very good group of defenders this year as well.I still can't wait for the draft come April.Man it is way to long grr lol.Any who nice work again Pudge.

killxswitch
01-31-2011, 12:05 PM
I really like your OT rankings. 1-5 is exactly how I would rank them and I am looking forward to the Combine because I think Cannon will jump at least 1 and maybe 2 spots. I might like Gilbert and Brewer a little higher but I'm just not sure enough yet to say I disagree with where you have them.

Do you see Ahmad Black staying at SS? I don't, he seems too small and I think I agree with Scott that he could transition to corner.

Who, in your opinion, could switch from FS to SS and be strong in run support?

One correction, your last-place OG Justin Boren, not Zach. Zach is his brother and is a RB.

etk
01-31-2011, 02:20 PM
What do you see in Colin McCarthy that makes you rank him ahead of Nate Irving?

ThePudge
02-01-2011, 01:35 AM
What do you see in Colin McCarthy that makes you rank him ahead of Nate Irving?

I like McCarthy's ability to play sideline-to-sideline and tackle. I think he could be a great value in the Late 3rd-4th Round and contribute immediately on Special Teams. The two are not far at all on my board. Irving is a little bigger, more of a thumper, but I have my concerns about his athleticism. Both players have the potential to be starters on defense down the line.

ellsy82
02-01-2011, 01:45 AM
Good stuff, Pudge. I appreciate your perspective. How would you rate Tyler Sash (I know its off topic, considering he's not in the senior bowl)? What are your impressions of him?

Texas Homer
02-01-2011, 03:24 AM
Thanks for posting this.

I thought that Texas CB Curtis Brown played well too and hopefully helped his draft stock.

Brown had that really nice hit on the WR where he reacted quickly and laid the boom and caused the incomplete pass.

Black Bolt
02-01-2011, 12:34 PM
You should have it. I also added a category.

SolidGold
02-01-2011, 01:33 PM
Pudge,

I think Dane Sanzenbacher had a really good week in Mobile as well. He came in as a late replacement but picked up on everything right away, displaying great hands, good route running and presenting himself as a reliable target. I think he is a solid 4th round pick. This seems to be a golden age for slot recievers in the NFL with more wide open offenses. I think his speed his somewhat underrated, I believe he was all state in track in High School.

K Train
02-01-2011, 02:20 PM
love seeing phil taylor picking up steam

RJS113
02-01-2011, 05:58 PM
Now, to Justin Houston, perhaps this class' most overlooked top prospect. His production simply dwarfed that of Miller this past season. Georgia ran variations of the 3-4 and Houston established himself as the best pass-rusher in the SEC. He may lack Miller's raw athleticism, but he put more heat on the Quarterback from his Linebacker position than anyone in the country. He has great size for the position, has a great first step, and is terrific in pursuit. He can set the edge, he can get after the Quarterback, and he can step in and play right away. I see him almost purely as a 3-4 rush LBer and a pretty damn good one.

Why is that? I see you have him ranked as both a 3-4 and 4-3 OLB, but not at 4-3 DE. Do you not think he could play DE in a 4-3? Where would he rank?

ThePudge
02-01-2011, 09:09 PM
Why is that? I see you have him ranked as both a 3-4 and 4-3 OLB, but not at 4-3 DE. Do you not think he could play DE in a 4-3? Where would he rank?

I think Houston definitely is a better fit at LB than DE in a 4-3 personally Still, he really fits perfectly as a rush-LB in a 3-4 scheme. He probably isn't more than a 2nd-3rd Round value in a 4-3 scheme at Weakside Linebacker. I'd like to see more of in him in coverage, but at UGA he mostly operated setting the edge and rushing the passer.

If he measures up at 6'3 250+ I may revise my opinion and acknowledge some potential as a 4-3 rush end.

SolidGold, I like Dane Sanzenbacher. He has a good week, but he's still a pretty ordinary NFL prospect. I don't think he's exceptionally quick or sudden and there's only so many wide open offenses that he could really contribute in. I don't think he comes off the board until the 5th Round or later. Teams like the Colts, Saints, Patriots, etc. could make use of him, though I'm not sure how high the demand is for more slot receivers on those particular rosters.

ThePudge
02-01-2011, 09:26 PM
I've already received 3 team reports. I really appreciate the help guys! But I NEED MORE. I've received a report on Kansas City, Oakland, and Jacksonville. That's 3 out of 30. If I want to get through each team + make the best mock drafts possible, I need some more help.

As always, keep the questions coming. I've been trying back to everyone as best as possible. Sometimes we may not always see eye to eye, but remember I'll always offer my take and I like to stay very open-minded in the draft process. My boards will undoubtedly look different once we know a lot of the physical ability they bring to the table and get to know them closer as players & people.

DiG
02-02-2011, 08:38 AM
pudge - just sent you a long write up on the skins. looking forward to your next draft release.

ThePudge
02-02-2011, 02:31 PM
pudge - just sent you a long write up on the skins. looking forward to your next draft release.

Thanks a ton man, it looks great. Really good stuff. I suggest you post that over on the Skins' board and leave it open for other fans to add insight/comment on.

The teams I received feedback on:
- Kansas City
- Jacksonville
- Oakland
- Carolina
- Washington

I love the effort and I'm going to do my best to convert some of the data you all are giving me into a pretty comprehensive team needs/priority list. In addition, this info helps me make the most informed mock drafts possible. You guys are a big help.

On another note,

I am thrilled to announce my #1 Pick article will be posted TONIGHT. It finally went up on the site I've been writing for and I'm ready to bring it here to the DC forums. Nowhere better to talk draft and receive intelligent feedback.

coordinator0
02-02-2011, 11:09 PM
Sent in a Ravens report. Let me know if you need anything else.

prock
02-07-2011, 04:36 PM
wrong thread

RAWRAWRAWRAWRAWRRAWR

happy pudge? I had something to say.