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CheeseKnuckles
01-31-2011, 02:50 PM
Just wondering if people with better knowledge think he would be a reach for the Packers in the 1st rd at 31 or 32?

sportslover
01-31-2011, 02:54 PM
I tell you one thing, if they draft Brooks Reed and Casey Matthews, the hair on that LB corps would be sweet :D.

CheeseKnuckles
01-31-2011, 02:58 PM
haha for sure! and they both are high energy with a motor that never stops. Though I think Matthews is a higher caliber of an athlete.

PossibleCabbage
01-31-2011, 03:15 PM
I tell you one thing, if they draft Brooks Reed and Casey Matthews, the hair on that LB corps would be sweet :D.

Don't forget that they're probably going to lock up A.J. Hawk for a few more years after this season...

SimonRath
01-31-2011, 04:04 PM
haha for sure! and they both are high energy with a motor that never stops. Though I think Matthews is a higher caliber of an athlete.

i would disagree with Matthews being a better athlete.

thegreatone
01-31-2011, 04:34 PM
Sir, that just isn't fair....

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 05:12 PM
Reed is going to go a lot higher than people think and first round isn't out of the question. He's a very, very good athlete and should test well at the combine. I think he was playing out of position a bit as a DE at Arizona. Not that he wasn't good at that...but there's just certain guys who are meant to be in a 3-4 and he's one of them. Relentless on the rush, great burst and strength too.

PossibleCabbage
01-31-2011, 05:18 PM
i would disagree with Matthews being a better athlete.

There's literally no point to having this argument when the Combine is just a few weeks away. I believe that Reed will test better than Matthews in some areas, but he will be hard pressed to top Matthews' 1.49 10-yard split.

SimonRath
01-31-2011, 05:19 PM
There's literally no point to having this argument when the Combine is just a few weeks away. I believe that Reed will test better than Matthews in some areas, but he will be hard pressed to top Matthews' 1.49 10-yard split.

fair enough point. we'll see when the combine comes up.

descendency
01-31-2011, 05:32 PM
but he will be hard pressed to top Matthews' 1.49 10-yard split.

The 10 yard split is one of the top 3 most under-rated stats at the combine.

PossibleCabbage
01-31-2011, 06:28 PM
The 10 yard split is one of the top 3 most under-rated stats at the combine.

Probably not by NFL GMs, but they don't talk to me.

Personally, when evaluating pass rushing potential based on measurables I think there three stats from the combine that tell the whole story: 10-yard split, vertical leap, and bench. If a guy has a great get-off, can coil and explode, and has a strong upper body he'll be able to rush the passer assuming he stays healthy and accepts (and receives) good coaching.

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 06:33 PM
I don't think Reed will have any problems satisfying your requirements there. He's legitimately explosive and maxes out on the bench at 550. Dude has better raw lifting numbers than Brian Orakpo did and that's really saying something.

Mr. Goosemahn
01-31-2011, 06:38 PM
Probably not by NFL GMs, but they don't talk to me.

Personally, when evaluating pass rushing potential based on measurables I think there three stats from the combine that tell the whole story: 10-yard split, vertical leap, and bench. If a guy has a great get-off, can coil and explode, and has a strong upper body he'll be able to rush the passer assuming he stays healthy and accepts (and receives) good coaching.

Wouldn't it be the broad jump instead of the vertical jump? I thought broad jump truly showed lower body strength. I mean, vertical too, but, I dunno, I think broad jump measures that better.

PossibleCabbage
01-31-2011, 06:46 PM
Wouldn't it be the broad jump instead of the vertical jump? I thought broad jump truly showed lower body strength. I mean, vertical too, but, I dunno, I think broad jump measures that better.

Vert is the one everybody does, and it's measured sensibly unlike the broad jump. So it's slightly more reliable.

The real problem with the broad jump as it's measured at the combine is that for a number to be recorded, you have to stick the landing. If you watch them do the test, you occasionally see a guy go: great distance, fall; great distance, stagger; good distance, stagger; good distance, fall; okay distance, stick.

For the vert, all you have to do is jump up in the air and whack the sticks. Everybody gets it in one.

So without having to actually watch the tape of the combine for every prospect (which kind of defeats the point of looking at numbers) I prefer to look at vert over broad.

Plus, the way the broad jump measures leg strength is more applicable to the situation of an RB pushing the pile, actually exploding out of your stance (depending on your stance) is generally more vert than broad. But remember, a pass-rusher doesn't usually have to push the OT back, he just needs to get around him somehow.

TimmG6376
01-31-2011, 07:22 PM
I don't think it would be a reach at all based on what was coming out of the Senior Bowl. If he tests well at the Combine the Packers might not get the chance.

CheeseKnuckles
01-31-2011, 07:45 PM
i would disagree with Matthews being a better athlete.

Whoops! When I read this I read CLAY not Casey, so I was comparing Clay to Brooks Reed!

cajuncorey
01-31-2011, 08:57 PM
dude cleans 450... just sayin

jetsfan0099
01-31-2011, 09:33 PM
I'm interested in him for the Jets at pick 30, we need a pass rusher badly... Not to mention we are old at OLB, every one besides Westerman was over 30...

TACKLE
02-01-2011, 12:41 AM
What makes Brooks Reed so much more highly regarded than his teammate Ricky Elmore?

wogitalia
02-01-2011, 12:48 AM
The super awesome hair, that is all Tackle.

That and he managed to get himself a nice little hype train going at the Senior Bowl.

TACKLE
02-01-2011, 12:52 AM
The super awesome hair, that is all Tackle.

That and he managed to get himself a nice little hype train going at the Senior Bowl.

I like Brooks a lot and he deserves all the hype he's getting. I just find it interesting that his teammate Elmore, is bigger, just as athletic (maybe a little less but not by much at all) and was more productive (11 sacks, 13 tfls to 6.5 sacks and 10 tfls for Reed). I still like Reed more, I just find it interesting that he might work his way up to being a fringe first rounder whereas Elmore is really off the radar.

ElectricEye
02-01-2011, 12:57 AM
I actually like Elmore a lot too. I've been big on both of these two for awhile, hype train or no. Elmore is a limited player physically. He's simply not that strong or explosive. Doesn't play very well technically or really have all that many moves either. He finds ways to get to the quarterback still, but those things are going to hurt him. He is very underplayed for a guy who has managed to put up 10+ sacks for two years though. I really like the level of violence and intensity he brings to the table too. I still have to go back and watch some more of him, but I've got the feeling he could go a little higher than some people realize(late 3rd early 4th range).

Edit:
Just doing some research into Elmore and supposedly the vast majority teams talking about him are interested in him playing OLB in a 3-4. That's a little surprising that it's so overwhelming.

TACKLE
02-01-2011, 01:03 AM
Not to hi-jack this into the Ricky Elmore thread, but I just saw this and thought it was kinda cool.

4Pw1uxc1Wyc

ElectricEye
02-01-2011, 01:06 AM
I personally don't mind the Elmore talk haha. I'm curious to get some feelers out about him too considering no one is talking about him and there's very little explanation as to why. I'm interested in hearing Scott's report when it comes out.

batsandgats
02-01-2011, 12:15 PM
Yes Elmore looked more impressive in college but Reed might have more upside.

BtE9qFonW7s

as you can see Brooks Reed seems to be in the background quite a bit, and also looks like he is receiving more double teams. Hes got a nice spin move in his arsenal but needs to go to the outside with it instead of inside, but these are highlights of Elmore so maybe has done that quite a bit. Clay Matthews didn't have great numbers in college either and wound up being a beast. I wouldn't mind either Elmore or Reed, or most of that Arizona defense for that matter. Btw it shows Ricky jumping out of a pool at the end hah.

Elmore could probably also make the switch to OLB in the 3-4, but he does look stronger than Reed and may be suited more for the 4-3. He doesn't have many moves but that doesn't matter, he seems to get to the quarterback by either power, and sometimes speed, whatever works, there are some pass rushers that have put up double digit sacks in the NFL that have similar styles. Ricky had an identical twin who played offensive line, but says he had to get heart surgery after a routine check up, since they are identical twins does that mean Ricky is also prone to having a heart problem? It says they have checked on his and its fine but just curious.

wogitalia
02-02-2011, 01:26 AM
Does anyone else get a Cushing/Matthews vibe off them though, only the one with the awesome hair is Cushing?

Basically Cushing got all the hype up until Matthews went mental at the combine and then he flew up. Reed right now is getting all the attention but a good combine could really push Elmore up, who basically has everything behind him except for some hype. If he can get the ball rolling it will spitball into some pretty nice stock!

I love high motor guys though, just watching Jared Allen and Kampman over the years you appreciate how much it really means, especially watching a guy like Edwards opposite him!

brasho
02-02-2011, 07:33 PM
Considering Cushing has looked more like a Will in the 4-3 LB and Matthews more of a rush 3-4 OLB and both Reed and Elmore both look like 3-4 rush OLBs... I don't. Cushing was very fluid and athletic, too and plays more like a big safety. Elmore and Reed are both going to be more like Matthews, a former DE that does his best work coming forward.

scottyboy
02-02-2011, 07:35 PM
I'm interested in him for the Jets at pick 30, we need a pass rusher badly... Not to mention we are old at OLB, every one besides Westerman was over 30...

yea but westerman is just pure sex

nepg
02-02-2011, 07:49 PM
Just wondering if people with better knowledge think he would be a reach for the Packers in the 1st rd at 31 or 32?
That's exactly where I have him going in my latest mock, but he could go higher or lower depending on interviews, combine, and pro day. I think he's more subject to the rising and falling of other players moreso than anything he can do for himself. Teams are either going to love him or pass for cautiousness.

nofalcons10
02-02-2011, 07:54 PM
I don't know if he can cover very well but i like him as a SAM in the 4-3 because of his power and hitting ability. The one play that he stood up to play linebacker and blitz the qb in the senior bowl was the play were he got the sack.

brasho
02-02-2011, 08:15 PM
I don't know if he can cover very well but i like him as a SAM in the 4-3 because of his power and hitting ability. The one play that he stood up to play linebacker and blitz the qb in the senior bowl was the play were he got the sack.

He wasn't playing LB, he was playing a stand-up DE and he did it on numerous snaps that afternoon. Blitzing is not allowed in the Senior Bowl... even though Acho got away with one in the 2nd half.

nofalcons10
02-03-2011, 05:45 AM
He wasn't playing LB, he was playing a stand-up DE and he did it on numerous snaps that afternoon. Blitzing is not allowed in the Senior Bowl... even though Acho got away with one in the 2nd half.

either way he looked good standing up coming off of the corner like a linebacker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEe2CmqVZT8&feature=related (4:50)

blitzing happens every year in spite of those rules.


I still like reed at SAM linebacker because he reminds me of Bill Romanowski and he might be even better there than romo was. I'd like for the saints to pick him up in the second round because we are looking for a sam with pass rush skills.

cajuncorey
02-03-2011, 10:20 AM
yea but westerman is just pure sex

yeah westerman is sick

signed,
canada canadians

bitonti
02-09-2011, 06:17 PM
brooks vs the phone book from years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Tki2gwyJc

f Brooks Reed can embarrass Derek Sherrod in SB practice (a likely first rounder), and also embarrass Nate Solder in the SB game (another likely first rounder, possible top 15 pick), then why can't he be a first rounder too?

brasho
02-10-2011, 12:57 PM
Probably not by NFL GMs, but they don't talk to me.

Personally, when evaluating pass rushing potential based on measurables I think there three stats from the combine that tell the whole story: 10-yard split, vertical leap, and bench. If a guy has a great get-off, can coil and explode, and has a strong upper body he'll be able to rush the passer assuming he stays healthy and accepts (and receives) good coaching.

Reps of 225 doesn't tell you anything about a guy's upperbody strength. All of the guys at the combine can bench 225. Some have great rep numbers without great strength, others have decent rep numbers with awesome strength. The bench is about dedication to conditioning and strengthening, it doesn't tell the whole picture.

I consistently bench 225 between 23-27X but my max bench is only 365. And because I only weigh 195 there is NO WAY I'm as strong as some of the behomoths at the combine that ONLY do it 20X. Their one rep max would beat mine by over 100 lbs.

What I'm getting at is that the bench doesn't tell you a whole lot about true upper body strength, the thing that it measures best (to me) are weight room dedication and work ethic.

ElectricEye
03-01-2011, 05:40 PM
Combine numbers;
6'2 and 1/2, 263

Official 4.68 40, ran in low 4.6's unofficially.

30 Reps on the bench press, which was right up there with Ryan Kerrigan for being the strongest out of all of the 3-4 OLB conversion prospects.

7.11 3 cone, which is fairly respectable.

4.28 20 yard shuttle.

1.61 10 Yard Split, which was tied for second with Acho I believe.

Pretty good numbers. I expected him to time slliiiightly better, but those times were still excellent.

Looked very good in drills too, both as a DE and OLB.

brasho
03-01-2011, 05:54 PM
Combine numbers;
6'2 and 1/2, 263

Official 4.68 40, ran in low 4.6's unofficially.

30 Reps on the bench press, which was right up there with Ryan Kerrigan for being the strongest out of all of the 3-4 OLB conversion prospects.

7.11 3 cone, which is fairly respectable.

4.28 20 yard shuttle.

1.61 10 Yard Split, which was tied for second with Acho I believe.

Pretty good numbers. I expected him to time slliiiightly better, but those times were still excellent.

Looked very good in drills too, both as a DE and OLB.

Did he blow it up? No. Did he do extremely well? Absolutely.

I stated it before and I'll state it again, Reed is at least as good of a prospect than Clay Matthews was at the same stage. He did nothing at the combine to hurt himself when compared to Matthews, especially considering he was quite a bit bigger, had almost the same 40, 7 more reps of 225, despite weighing 23 lbs more. Matthews had a ridiculous 1.49 10 though... which is the great equalizer... without which, Reed would have been the far superior prospect, considering Matthews' lack of collegiate production.

Babylon
03-01-2011, 05:56 PM
Combine numbers;
6'2 and 1/2, 263

6-3 240

Official 4.68 40, ran in low 4.6's unofficially.

4.67

30 Reps on the bench press, which was right up there with Ryan Kerrigan for being the strongest out of all of the 3-4 OLB conversion prospects.

23

7.11 3 cone, which is fairly respectable.

6.90

4.28 20 yard shuttle.

4.18

1.61 10 Yard Split, which was tied for second with Acho I believe.

Pretty good numbers. I expected him to time slliiiightly better, but those times were still excellent.

Looked very good in drills too, both as a DE and OLB.

Clay Matthews combine numbers in bold. Matthews with a slight advantage in lateral quickness.

brasho
03-01-2011, 06:00 PM
I'm sure Reed would have been much much faster, and far more agile if he was 23 lbs less. What did Reed jump anyways?

PossibleCabbage
03-01-2011, 06:10 PM
Clay Matthews combine numbers in bold. Matthews with a slight advantage in lateral quickness.

Also worth mentioning, Clay Matthews' 10-yard split? 1.49 seconds. Far and away the best of the DL/LB group that year. Matthews' get-off is one of the best in the NFL, and key to the effectiveness of his ability as a pass rusher.

brasho
03-01-2011, 06:18 PM
Did he blow it up? No. Did he do extremely well? Absolutely.

I stated it before and I'll state it again, Reed is at least as good of a prospect than Clay Matthews was at the same stage. He did nothing at the combine to hurt himself when compared to Matthews, especially considering he was quite a bit bigger, had almost the same 40, 7 more reps of 225, despite weighing 23 lbs more. Matthews had a ridiculous 1.49 10 though... which is the great equalizer... without which, Reed would have been the far superior prospect, considering Matthews' lack of collegiate production.

I think that's been mentioned at least once before.

PossibleCabbage
03-01-2011, 06:23 PM
I think that's been mentioned at least once before.

In fact, yes it has:

There's literally no point to having this argument when the Combine is just a few weeks away. I believe that Reed will test better than Matthews in some areas, but he will be hard pressed to top Matthews' 1.49 10-yard split.

DeepThreat
03-01-2011, 06:25 PM
I don't buy that Reed is as good of a prospect as Matthews. He doesn't have the same burst or pass rushing ability. I will say that Reed is more versatile and capable of playing in a 3-4 and 4-3, but overall, I don't feel like he is as good. Matthews was a first rounder in a strong class, while Reed is a borderline first/second rounder in a weak class.

brasho
03-01-2011, 06:56 PM
I don't buy that Reed is as good of a prospect as Matthews. He doesn't have the same burst or pass rushing ability. I will say that Reed is more versatile and capable of playing in a 3-4 and 4-3, but overall, I don't feel like he is as good. Matthews was a first rounder in a strong class, while Reed is a borderline first/second rounder in a weak class.

Are you kidding me? This is a weak class of pass rushers (and I'm not even lincluding Miller who is an OLB only)? There will be no less than 8 selected in round 1 this year, possibly 9 or more if Reed and somebody else were to stray into round 1. This is absolutely the deepest DE class in eons.

So what are you basing Clay Matthews's pass rushing ability in college off of? The 4 or 5 sacks he posted... in his entire collegiate career? Perhaps the fact that he didn't lay claim to a starting job until his senior season.... which probably was his 5th year in school.

YOu can say whatever you want about Matthews having more burst, because he does, but a better pass rusher at the same stage as Reed, not even close. Matthews didn't have the tape, nor the production that Reed did, not even close.

batsandgats
03-01-2011, 07:24 PM
32KAqii4lrk

ElectricEye
03-01-2011, 09:06 PM
To a certain extent, I really don't think the Clay Matthews stuff adds anything to the discussion at this point really. There's obvious similarities in terms of positions and play style, but there's not much of a point comparing the measurables. Brooks Reed is a different type of athlete.

SimonRath
03-01-2011, 10:15 PM
32KAqii4lrk

it is just me or were a lot of those sacks/tackles for loss just a lot of terrible blocking?

fenikz
03-01-2011, 10:16 PM
Reed had the luxury of never having to face a double team with D. Reed, Elmore, along with freshman standout Justin Washington always on the field with him and often would be 1 on 1 with a slow OT or RB

SenorGato
03-02-2011, 12:22 AM
Still Lamarr Woodley 2.0.

A Perfect Score
03-02-2011, 12:33 AM
I was wildly impressed with Reed at both the combine and the Senior Bowl. If he checks out medically, I think he could be a late first rounder. I know there are some concerns over his health and before this weekend there were concerns over his athleticism/ceiling, but he looked fantastic in the drills at the combine. Very explosive and extremely fluid. I think he's on par with Mathews as a prospect, once again we see revisionist history at work here. There were a ton of people who dislike Mathews as a prospect and there were people who disliked the pick for Green Bay as well. Most people definitely had him ranked as the worst of that USC LB core. As pure prospects, I think Reed measures up fairly well actually. He's a player for sure, I'd have no problem with him to Baltimore at 26.

edgrenade
03-02-2011, 12:37 AM
Still Lamarr Woodley 2.0.

I like this... A LOT

descendency
03-02-2011, 12:53 AM
Reed had the luxury of never having to face a double team with D. Reed, Elmore, along with freshman standout Justin Washington always on the field with him and often would be 1 on 1 with a slow OT or RB

Yeah, he was handled by Riley Reiff.

wogitalia
03-02-2011, 01:28 AM
Reed had the luxury of never having to face a double team with D. Reed, Elmore, along with freshman standout Justin Washington always on the field with him and often would be 1 on 1 with a slow OT or RB

And he wont face a lot of double teams in the NFL unless he becomes an elite player, at which point he is an elite player and the fact he didn't face double teams in the past will no longer matter.

I like Reed, he is a bigger, stronger and slightly less agile player than a Clay Matthews but numbers were outstanding and he should be a very good player at the next level.

I actually think that once you get past skin colour/hair that Reed is probably more similar to LaMarr Woodley than he is Matthews but the Matthews comparison is going to be made and not far off still. Woodley was an outstandingly productive DE in college with just about identical measurables across the board, similar skill set as a pass rusher.

wogitalia
03-02-2011, 01:28 AM
Still Lamarr Woodley 2.0.

And that will teach me to wait an hour to reply to a thread!

BigBanger
03-02-2011, 02:48 AM
Yeah, he was handled by Riley Reiff.
I thought he made one of the best LTs heading into next season look pretty bad that game (the worst I've seen Reiff look since he filled in for Bulaga as a freshman, I believe). He almost had 4 sacks while across from Reiff (only had 1) and was overpowering him all game long. I think Reed is one of the more underrated pass rushers in the class. I see him going in round 2 and being a steal. He's a really good football player. One of my favorites in the draft. I also like the Woodley comparisons (just not quite the technician Woody was). I think he's a first round caliber player without question.

thegreatone
03-02-2011, 07:25 AM
I hope the Ravens take him in the first. I'd take him over Houston as a 3-4 OLB right now.

nepg
03-02-2011, 07:51 AM
it is just me or were a lot of those sacks/tackles for loss just a lot of terrible blocking?

All of those teams (particularly Iowa) in the clips are teams known to have solid blocking at the college level.

SimonRath
03-02-2011, 08:51 AM
All of those teams (particularly Iowa) in the clips are teams known to have solid blocking at the college level.

well it didnt look like they were solid blockers after watching the video.

Tucsonpaint
03-02-2011, 01:54 PM
Fenikz, if you think Reed never faced double teams, you not only haven't watched any games but you haven't watched tape. Teams game planned around Reed. Anyone who thinks Reiff handled Reed needs to watch this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32KAqii4lrk&feature=related

SenorGato
03-02-2011, 02:06 PM
I like this... A LOT

If skin color wasn't such a big deal this would be a really obvious comparison...everything from the size/speed to the intensity to the probable stock (good enough players that you can argue they should go in the first...instead they probably go in the 33-40 range.

A more neutral comparison might be Koa Misi...though Misi is smaller than both Woodley and/or Reed. Another DE/OLB with alot of motor and intensity in his game who went in the top 40...

batsandgats
03-02-2011, 04:37 PM
Fenikz, if you think Reed never faced double teams, you not only haven't watched any games but you haven't watched tape. Teams game planned around Reed. Anyone who thinks Reiff handled Reed needs to watch this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32KAqii4lrk&feature=related

This, I didn't see him consistently beat double teams but to say he never faced them is ridiculous. Watching Arizona, he faced them quite a bit, and his teammate on the other side Elmore almost never faced them which might account for his higher sack total. Having said that, he tended to do a spin move to the inside more when facing double teams instead of the outside. He got less pressure when going to the inside. If he fixes that then he can be even better.

FUNBUNCHER
03-02-2011, 04:45 PM
I don't buy that Reed is as good of a prospect as Matthews. He doesn't have the same burst or pass rushing ability. I will say that Reed is more versatile and capable of playing in a 3-4 and 4-3, but overall, I don't feel like he is as good. Matthews was a first rounder in a strong class, while Reed is a borderline first/second rounder in a weak class.

If Clay had shown up at the combing weighing 260#, ( he doesn't even weigh that now), his numbers would have paled in comparison to Reed.

Reed is bigger and stronger than CMIII, with very similar speed/quickness.

Don't sleep on than 23# Reed has on Clay as NFL prospects.

Duffman57
03-02-2011, 04:47 PM
Brooks Reed reminds me a TON of two years ago Connor Barwin. Very athletic, good pass rusher, but may take a bit to put it all together in the NFL. He's for sure got some weak spots.

SimonRath
03-02-2011, 04:55 PM
Fenikz, if you think Reed never faced double teams, you not only haven't watched any games but you haven't watched tape. Teams game planned around Reed. Anyone who thinks Reiff handled Reed needs to watch this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32KAqii4lrk&feature=related

was Reed double teamed at any point in this video?..

ElectricEye
03-02-2011, 08:21 PM
Are we seriously using a youtube video for a barometer of if someone draws double teams? I mean...seriously? Is that what we've sunk to?


It's a fair point to bring up, but to try to make a comprehensive statement on the basis of of a 3 minute video is just asinine.

Tucsonpaint
03-02-2011, 08:45 PM
The youtube was not to show Reed was double teamed---anyone who watches football knows he was often double teamed AND then chipped by the RB. It is true that he didn't get many sacks while he was double teamed, but that is the point of having a good pass rusher---he takes up two men + to stop him. Reed did get sacks when they would run him out of the D-tackle position, cause teams hadn't seen that on tape and didn't know how to adjust to it. He also got sacks when one on one with the OT, or the offensive left tackle would take on a blitzing line backer and leave Reed one on one with a RB.

The video was in response to a poster saying that Reed was owned by Reiff. LOL

PossibleCabbage
03-02-2011, 09:03 PM
One thing to keep in mind about the Iowa-Arizona 2010 game was that the large Midwestern lads were having serious problems with the heat in Tucson. This is probably not a situation that we can project a lot from going forward, since it's not necessarily going to apply in the NFL. Guys will have to deal with extreme cold much more in the NFL than they have to deal with extreme heat and/or humidity.

At the very least, NFL teams do a lot better job preparing for extreme conditions than college football teams do.

ElectricEye
03-02-2011, 09:03 PM
Nothing against posting it at all and it's useful to people who haven't gotten a chance to look at him, but I disagree with the fact we're using youtube as a tool to make big assessments.


One thing to keep in mind about the Iowa-Arizona 2010 game was that the large Midwestern lads were having serious problems with the heat in Tucson. This is probably not a situation that we can project a lot from going forward, since it's not necessarily going to apply in the NFL. Guys will have to deal with extreme cold much more in the NFL than they have to deal with extreme heat and/or humidity.

You've gotta throw absolutely all of that out. Little things like that really don't matter. Just like when teams get the flu. Results on the field are what matter in the end, regardless of weather conditions and such. We're always talked up about how the Broncos have such a major advantage playing at high elevation...sure didn't seem to make much of a difference this year. Don't think you can use that to discount some good tape.

PossibleCabbage
03-02-2011, 09:24 PM
You've gotta throw absolutely all of that out. Little things like that really don't matter. Just like when teams get the flu. Results on the field are what matter in the end, regardless of weather conditions and such. We're always talked up about how the Broncos have such a major advantage playing at high elevation...sure didn't seem to make much of a difference this year. Don't think you can use that to discount some good tape.

I just want to caution against saying "Reed beat Reiff, so Reed can always beat Reiff"... the circumstances in every game are going to be different, and this one played to Reed more than it did to Reiff. Kudos to Reed for taking advantage of circumstances when they played in his favor. I certainly hope that a player wouldn't lay up on an opponent because his opponent is struggling (for any reason other than injury).

I'm mostly an advocate of "you should watch a lot of tape to tell the story on a prospect, not just some tape." One or two great showings aren't nearly as impressive as "consistently good showing".

So you don't need to tell me that Reed had some success against Riley Reiff, I would prefer to read about everybody that Reed had success about (and correspondingly, the people he didn't.)

I don't know if you watched that Iowa@Arizona game, but Iowa just didn't look right in it.

ElectricEye
03-02-2011, 09:31 PM
That's fine, but we get into dangerous territory with that logic. Can't pick and choose when to throw out or put warning labels on a good game for someone. Usually, good things on the football field are the result of mismatches or poor preparation on one side.

bored of education
03-02-2011, 09:35 PM
My dad made an awesome youtube video of me, I sent it the Scott Pioli. I was issued a restraining order.

SimonRath
03-02-2011, 10:10 PM
The youtube was not to show Reed was double teamed---anyone who watches football knows he was often double teamed AND then chipped by the RB. It is true that he didn't get many sacks while he was double teamed, but that is the point of having a good pass rusher---he takes up two men + to stop him. Reed did get sacks when they would run him out of the D-tackle position, cause teams hadn't seen that on tape and didn't know how to adjust to it. He also got sacks when one on one with the OT, or the offensive left tackle would take on a blitzing line backer and leave Reed one on one with a RB.

The video was in response to a poster saying that Reed was owned by Reiff. LOL

my bad, i thought it was posted to show reed gets double teamed. so didn't read the post right haha

Tucsonpaint
03-02-2011, 10:27 PM
Another little bit of trivia. The official Combine stats are out; and Reeds 10Yd AND 20Yd split were better than all DEs, including Moch, Quin, Smith and Watt.

Compared to OLBs, Reed was tied for third in the 10 YD split (with Mason, Lutrus Moten and Rolle) Only Von Miller and Wilson (Ill) were faster. In the 20 among all OLBs Reed was tied with Von Miller for 4th place.

PossibleCabbage
03-02-2011, 10:31 PM
Another little bit of trivia. The official Combine stats are out; and Reeds 10Yd AND 20Yd split were better than all DEs, including Moch, Quin and Watt.

Compared to OLBs, Reed was tied for third in the 10 YD split (with Mason, Lutrus Moten and Rolle) Only Von Miller and Wilson (Ill) were faster. In the 20 among all OLBs Reed was tied with Von Miller for 4th place.

Could you post Reed's 10-yard split please?

ElectricEye
03-02-2011, 10:32 PM
Pretty sure it was 1.60. That's what they showed on NFL Network at the time. Posted it a few pages back too.

Tucsonpaint
03-02-2011, 10:43 PM
Reed 10 Yd ELECTRONIC fastest split 1.63

Moch and Smith 10 Yd fastest Elecronic 1.68, Quinn 1.69 Watt 1.71

Saints-Tigers
03-02-2011, 11:29 PM
My dad made an awesome youtube video of me, I sent it the Scott Pioli. I was issued a restraining order.


If only your dad was Kirk Ferentz, Pioli would pick you top 5.

descendency
03-03-2011, 01:04 AM
Reed 10 Yd ELECTRONIC fastest split 1.63

Moch and Smith 10 Yd fastest Elecronic 1.68, Quinn 1.69 Watt 1.71

Link? I'd love to see the numbers. JJ Watt being only .13 slower than Clay Matthews despite being 50 LBs heavier is insane.

Tucsonpaint
03-03-2011, 01:18 AM
I think the numbers you may have for Matthews III are from his Pro day not the combine. Matthews did a little better at his pro day---maybe hand timed?

GB12
03-03-2011, 01:20 AM
it is just me or were a lot of those sacks/tackles for loss just a lot of terrible blocking?

Nope, that was a horribly unimpressive highlight video. On most of them he was either one on one with a runningback or unblocked completely. The few times he was up against an actual lineman it was some pretty pathetic blocking.


*I'm not judging him on the youtube video, just saying those are sorry excuses for highlights.

descendency
03-03-2011, 12:42 PM
I think the numbers you may have for Matthews III are from his Pro day not the combine. Matthews did a little better at his pro day---maybe hand timed?

You're right. it is. Wikipedia usually has an asterisk beside it if it is from his pro day.

SolidGold
03-03-2011, 01:01 PM
Does anyone think Reed will experience a Brandon Graham like jump on draft day? I believe he put up better numbers and physically has similar measurements as Graham who ended up going very early #13 overall to the Eagles.

descendency
03-03-2011, 01:04 PM
Does anyone think Reed will experience a Brandon Graham like jump on draft day? I believe he put up better numbers and physically has similar measurements as Graham who ended up going very early #13 overall to the Eagles.

Graham was at the bottom of the first/top of the second. Reed was at the bottom of the second. That'd be a lot more than just a Brandon Graham jump.

If NE decides to keep the 33rd pick, I wouldn't mind them taking Reed there, but I can't see it being needed before that. Some teams fans may think otherwise, but that's my opinion.

A Perfect Score
03-03-2011, 02:02 PM
Does anyone think Reed will experience a Brandon Graham like jump on draft day? I believe he put up better numbers and physically has similar measurements as Graham who ended up going very early #13 overall to the Eagles.

Reed isn't quite the technician that Graham was but I wouldn't be surprised to see him sneak into the late first round. The clay Mathews comparisons certainly aren't hurting him.

P-L
03-03-2011, 02:07 PM
I think Brooks Reed is solidly in the late 1st round right now. There isn't going to be any sneaking going on.

SolidGold
03-03-2011, 02:18 PM
His probability of going in the late first is very good...just look at the teams picking:

26. Baltimore Ravens - 3-4/ need complimenting pass rusher to T. Suggs
27. Atlanta Falcons - 4-3/Reed could be a 4-3 DE although his value in the first is based upon his 3-4 OLB potential. Abraham is getting up there in age.
28. New England Patriots - 3-4/ Reed would be a great pick to bolster the pass rush. Could learn behind Banta-Cain and Ninkovich. Bellicheck could find creative ways to get him onto the field
29. Chicago Bears - Cover 2 only team I could not see taking Reed. Way to many holes on the offensive line
30. New York Jets - 3-4/ Jason Taylor is probably done, Reed could be very good under the tutelage of Rex Ryan, they need a pass rushing specialist
31. Pittsburgh Steelers - 3-4/Not as big a need, they do love pass rushing OLBs- O-line is a bigger concern
32. Green Bay Packers - 3-4/ Would be a great compliment to Mathews. Packers are a pretty deep team, could use secondary help and o-line but I think they could take him here. Kevin Greene would love it

SimonRath
03-03-2011, 02:25 PM
Nope, that was a horribly unimpressive highlight video. On most of them he was either one on one with a runningback or unblocked completely. The few times he was up against an actual lineman it was some pretty pathetic blocking.


*I'm not judging him on the youtube video, just saying those are sorry excuses for highlights.

i agree 100%. such a poor attempt to show Reed's pass rushing skills.

PossibleCabbage
03-03-2011, 02:25 PM
32. Green Bay Packers - 3-4/ Would be a great compliment to Mathews. Packers are a pretty deep team, could use secondary help and o-line but I think they could take him here. Kevin Greene would love it

Honestly, I think OLB is a much bigger need for Green Bay than secondary help. I would say that their top two needs are OLB and OL.

descendency
03-03-2011, 02:46 PM
28. New England Patriots - 3-4/ Reed would be a great pick to bolster the pass rush. Could learn behind Banta-Cain and Ninkovich. Bellicheck could find creative ways to get him onto the field

Won't happen. He's not a 3 down player immediately. The same reasons why he passed on Matthews will result in him passing on Brooks Reed.

Tucsonpaint
03-03-2011, 02:56 PM
Nother interesting little stat:

Reed ran faster than 16 of the 34 combine running backs at the 10 yard mark. He ran faster than 14 of the 34 at the 20 yard mark, and he ran faster than 7 of the running backs in the 40.

RWills
03-03-2011, 04:40 PM
While I get the love fest with him, his split was awesome, he plays 110% everyplay, uses his hands I can't help but notice other things that worry me. He has shorter arms than most of the other pass rushers, is his frame maxed out? and he did struggle a little but not bad on the LB drills. I am not saying he is a bust nor a fit for the 34 defense....Im just thinking with a Patriots frame of mind.

GB12
03-03-2011, 04:43 PM
If you're looking at him as a 3-4 OLB it doesn't matter if his frame is maxed or not. 262 is more than big enough for the position.

PossibleCabbage
03-03-2011, 04:45 PM
If you're looking at him as a 3-4 OLB it doesn't matter if his frame is maxed or not. 262 is more than big enough for the position.

It's certainly bigger than Matthews, and bigger than Kevin Greene's playing weight. Of all the OLB/pass rusher types, Reed reminds me most of those guys not due to hair, physique, or athleticism but because all three of those guys play with a bit of a screw loose.

ElectricEye
03-03-2011, 05:17 PM
Yeah, Reed is already in the first round stock wise at this point due to the strong showing at the combine and the Senior Bowl. Wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the second necessarily, but he won't last long.