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View Full Version : Martez Wilson #1 ILB?


foozball
01-31-2011, 02:55 PM
He has the best measurables of the ILB class and certainly had the production to match. Why is he not the #1 ILB in a weak ILB class?

TACKLE
01-31-2011, 03:02 PM
Who's to say he isn't? I really don't see any ILB going before him and I think there's a fairly good chance he goes top 25.

foozball
01-31-2011, 03:03 PM
Who's to say he isn't? I really don't see any ILB going before him and I think there's a fairly good chance he goes top 25.

Scott Wright says he isn't.

TACKLE
01-31-2011, 03:07 PM
Scott Wright says he isn't.

True. I foresee a him moving up in a lot of people's eyes after the combine.

bullg8rdaddy
01-31-2011, 03:10 PM
I have been a fan since his recruitment, but haven't watched more than 1 game, IIRC. Love his measurables.

Sturdivant, Irving, Jones are his main competition, no?

iowatreat54
01-31-2011, 03:15 PM
Personally, I think he's an OLB and would be a beast there. I wouldn't want him anywhere near MLB if I was a 4-3 team, idk about ILB in a 3-4.

He doesn't show the decision making skills or coverage skills to play inside, imo. He's always slow to make his decisions and is much better rushing off the edge/defending the run than he is dropping back. I think he would be a great 3-4 OLB.

FUNBUNCHER
01-31-2011, 03:37 PM
Personally, I think he's an OLB and would be a beast there. I wouldn't want him anywhere near MLB if I was a 4-3 team, idk about ILB in a 3-4.

He doesn't show the decision making skills or coverage skills to play inside, imo. He's always slow to make his decisions and is much better rushing off the edge/defending the run than he is dropping back. I think he would be a great 3-4 OLB.

Thanks, because I was about to ask if Wilson had anything in common with Urlacher besides measurables.

Woody56
01-31-2011, 03:45 PM
Top 25? The draft advisory board gave him a 4th-7th round grade.

Nebula
01-31-2011, 04:22 PM
Nobody knows.

Some people say he has great instincts. Other people say he has poor instincts.

That's the biggest question with him. If he lacks instincts, put him at OLB and have him rush the passer

TACKLE
01-31-2011, 04:24 PM
Top 25? The draft advisory board gave him a 4th-7th round grade.

Did they now. Where did you hear this? Not saying its not true but I'm just curious.

Also I shouldn't of said "fairly good chance". I should of just said chance.

thegreatone
01-31-2011, 04:37 PM
Hes a very tough player to evaluate. Sometime I love him, and sometimes I don't like him at all.

He doesn't consistently display a nose for the football, and he seems like hes jogging a lot of times. Doesn't have a great motor, and he doesn't lay the wood like you would want your ILB to.

But still might be the best ILB in the class. Its just one of worst classes in recent memory, so he'll benefit from that.

Don Vito
01-31-2011, 04:39 PM
Yeah I always thought he was going to be a rushbacker at the next level, I bet he could play inside but I always viewed him as a 3-4 OLB.

bucfan12
01-31-2011, 04:41 PM
I think it's hard to project the best MLB prospect. Ayers can easily play all 3 LB positions in the 4-3. Greg Jones is best suited for WLB in the 4-3. I think Wilson is the best natural MLB in the draft and is underrated.

Woody56
01-31-2011, 04:42 PM
Did they now. Where did you hear this? Not saying its not true but I'm just curious.

Also I shouldn't of said "fairly good chance". I should of just said chance.

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=4492

Diehard
01-31-2011, 05:22 PM
I don't like Wilson at all on the inside. He looks like a 3-4 OLB to me (and a good one at that).

If you want a MLB with some range, I like NC Quan. For ILB in a 3-4, someone will get good value from Kelvin Sheppard.

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 05:27 PM
I like him better inside in a 3-4. I wouldn't be comfortable with telling him to rush the passer off the edge in a 3-4 every down. He has the body and measurable ability for it, but not the skills. Tell him to play down hill and find the ball, then let him rush in spots and you'll get the most out of him.

thegreatone
01-31-2011, 05:39 PM
Yeah just cause your a good blitzer doesn't mean you have to play 3-4 OLB.

Timmons is an excellent pass-rusher, but still is a stud at the ILB spot. Not comparing the 2, just giving an example.

iowatreat54
01-31-2011, 06:23 PM
I think my main point with him is that you shouldn't put him in a position where he has to decide what to do. Maybe he will improve with practice and the right coaching, but it seems that he is good if you tell him to do one thing or the other, but if you have him make reads or have to pick a spot, he's not very instinctive and often lets the play happen before pursuing, rather than recognizing and attacking.

Diehard
01-31-2011, 06:38 PM
The thing is he doesn't seem strong in two areas that matter to an ILB: read/react and coverage. Does he play thumper inside on running downs, then kick outside as a rusher against the pass?

He's a intriguing prospect with a ton of potential... it will be interesting to see who drafts him and how they try to make use of his skillset.

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 06:51 PM
The thing is he doesn't seem strong in two areas that matter to an ILB: read/react and coverage. Does he play thumper inside on running downs, then kick outside as a rusher against the pass?

He's a intriguing prospect with a ton of potential... it will be interesting to see who drafts him and how they try to make use of his skillset.

That's what I would do with him personally. Think a team would get the most out of him that way. From what I've seen, he doesn't embarrass himself in man coverage either.

iowatreat54
01-31-2011, 07:00 PM
That's what I would do with him personally. Think a team would get the most out of him that way. From what I've seen, he doesn't embarrass himself in man coverage either.

I agree, that's probably his best option.

And I'm sure he can be taught to be a better coverage LB, and he's not horrible now, he's just not good...he's just kinda there and ok at it.

Matthew Jones
01-31-2011, 07:09 PM
The way he played in college makes him seem like a 3-4 OLB. 6'4" 250 is great size, he's played all linebacker spots and defensive end, looked good this year, and rumor is he's planning on running around a 4.5 with 29-33 reps on the bench. That would be huge and I could definitely see someone falling in love with him. I think he's a great prospect and was shocked to hear how low the advisory board thought of him, Leshoure, and Liuget. I'll say he goes late first to mid second.

iowatreat54
01-31-2011, 07:23 PM
The way he played in college makes him seem like a 3-4 OLB. 6'4" 250 is great size, he's played all linebacker spots and defensive end, looked good this year, and rumor is he's planning on running around a 4.5 with 29-33 reps on the bench. That would be huge and I could definitely see someone falling in love with him. I think he's a great prospect and was shocked to hear how low the advisory board thought of him, Leshoure, and Liuget. I'll say he goes late first to mid second.

I think it's a really big red flare at what the coaching has been like the last couple years at Illinois. Guys like Tez, Leshoure, Liuget, and Benn last year are all first round talents. But I don't think they grade out high because, at least in Tez and Benn's case imo, they really weren't taught anything in college that improved their games physically or mentally. They just get by on talent alone.

All four of those guys could easily have been 1st round picks without even arguing. Now, Benn is a 2nd rounder and the other 3 have to have their case made.

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 07:26 PM
I think it's a really big red flare at what the coaching has been like the last couple years at Illinois. Guys like Tez, Leshoure, Liuget, and Benn last year are all first round talents. But I don't think they grade out high because, at least in Tez and Benn's case imo, they really weren't taught anything in college that improved their games physically or mentally. They just get by on talent alone.

All four of those guys could easily have been 1st round picks without even arguing. Now, Benn is a 2nd rounder and the other 3 have to have their case made.

This is a good point and not something I wouldn't feel terribly good about if I was an Illini fan. Zook can certainly recruit though.

iowatreat54
01-31-2011, 07:31 PM
This is a good point and not something I wouldn't feel terribly good about if I was an Illini fan. Zook can certainly recruit though.

He is indeed one of the best. At least now it seems he's put together a competent staff (dare I say even a really good staff) that knows what they are doing on gameday.

But to stay on topic, I don't know if it's so much that Martez just doesn't have it going on so much upstairs or just never has been coached to it. But he has off the charts measurables and potential, and I'm sure he can get by as a decent pro on that alone, but I don't think I could put him at the top of any ranking just on that alone, regardless of the rest of the crop.

I would take a guy like Herzlich (not necessarily him but the type of player) that seemingly has a fantastic understanding of the game and his position, over a freak athlete that might never understand fully what he's supposed to do. Just my unimportant opinion, though.

bullg8rdaddy
01-31-2011, 07:31 PM
This is a good point and not something I wouldn't feel terribly good about if I was an Illini fan. Zook can certainly pay though.

fixed it for ya

lol

ElectricEye
01-31-2011, 07:37 PM
I would take a guy like Herzlich (not necessarily him but the type of player) that seemingly has a fantastic understanding of the game and his position, over a freak athlete that might never understand fully what he's supposed to do. Just my unimportant opinion, though.

Assuming he tests well, and it looks like he will, Herzy is my #1 3-4 ILB. He's textbook really. He has the necessary size, strength and athleticism to take on blocks. Looked MUCH better this week at 250 than he was earlier in the year after the chemo. Tremendous in coverage and instinctual too. Wilson is a stronger pass rusher, but Herzlich is no slouch in that category either.

Wilson could be drafted a lot higher after the combine though. Like you mentioned, some coach is going to fall in love with the measurable ability, potential, and versatility and think that they can teach him the finer points of the game.

TheSlinger
01-31-2011, 07:53 PM
Interesting. From my very limited exposure to Wilson (1 game + youtube) I thought instincts were one of his positives; he always looked like he was running to where the ball was going to be. Good to know that people see him otherwise.

Nebula
01-31-2011, 08:21 PM
Interesting. From my very limited exposure to Wilson (1 game + youtube) I thought instincts were one of his positives; he always looked like he was running to where the ball was going to be. Good to know that people see him otherwise.

Same. That's what makes it so frustrating. You constantly keep hearing, up-and-down, about this guys instincts. Some say he is very good at reading his keys and reacting, some say he is tentative and lacks instincts. I wish there was a sure bona fide answer. I guess I'll have to wait for scouting reports since I'm sure the guys here on draftcountdown watch tape of every snap (unlike other sites that just studies a single game)

RaiderNation
01-31-2011, 08:25 PM
Not right now, but if he works out well I can certainly see it

87Canes
01-31-2011, 09:39 PM
Never followed Martez Wilson since he signed an LOI with the Ilini but I should have.

I just watched some video from the Ohios State game and I saw a couple good things: Sheds blocks very weel, doesn't get hooked; tackles well not great; doesn't take false steps and seems to always be in the right place which means he studies his opponents. The things I didn't like about him is he sometimes takes bad angles and relies on his huge frame to make the tackle; seems a bit slow off the snap but it could be his huge body moving slow.

If I'm a 3-4 team that needs a Mike LB with a 2nd rd pick, I'm definitely looking at this guy. I'll still study him a little more but he seems to be legit at the moment.

Clarkw267
01-31-2011, 10:25 PM
http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=4492

I have to question the credibility of that site.

LeShoure, Liuget, and Wilson ALL got 4-7 round grades from the committee? That doesn't add up.

Don Vito
01-31-2011, 10:32 PM
Wilson reminds me of Karlos Dansby, I think he will be drafted at the top of round 2 like Dansby was. Both are tall, crazy athletic, and strong linebackers who offer some versatility who can pressure the QB when asked to.

DBNYDP
01-31-2011, 11:10 PM
I feel like his instincts aren't the very good and he relies on them too much. Turns into a rash player who is out of position and undisciplined. He also makes the occasional great play but still.

thegreatone
02-01-2011, 12:39 PM
Now that I think about it, his situation reminds me a lot of Timmons.

If he could get on a team with a great defensive staff like Pit, the sky is the limit with the proper coaching.

Remember Timmons wasn't a thumper, and I don't really remember anyone loving his instincts either.

SenorGato
02-01-2011, 12:46 PM
I also quietly feel that he's rising...not sure he's as good a player as Sheppard from LSU, but he's bigger.

Diehard
02-01-2011, 02:19 PM
Remember Timmons wasn't a thumper, and I don't really remember anyone loving his instincts either.

Timmons was very good in coverage, which is an important difference. I remember hoping he'd be a Bronco so we could finally have a SLB who could stay with opposing TE's. We took Jarvis Moss instead. Ouch.

thebow305
02-01-2011, 05:34 PM
True. I foresee a him moving up in a lot of people's eyes after the combine.

Same here. He's got as much upside as anyone in this draft IMO.

bigbenn
02-01-2011, 10:03 PM
Everybody should discard anything iowatreat has to say regarding anything about Illinois players or the Illini program. He has no idea about what he's talking about (Just look at the Liuget thread). Wilson CAN play any LB position in any scheme but is probably best suited as a 3-4 OLB. If he wasn't the best and most vesatile LB Illinois had, he would've been the BANDIT in their defense which is a part time DE/OLB. Instead, he called the plays as a MLB and had an All American caliber season. He is very versatile. As for the Zook coaching comments, believe what you want but it was more coaching staff chemistry/issues than anything when talking about the two seasons after the Rose Bowl...then they made staff changes and won a bowl game... now with a very good AND stable staff (Until Petrino leaves as a HC), a young experienced team, more talent coming in with talent already on campus, etc., things look very good.

bigbenn
02-01-2011, 10:09 PM
Oh yeah forgot to include his comment about receiving "no coaching"...Tez went from a VERY raw 5 star HS player who never played LB (I know, I watched him) to a First team All B10 LB. That shows plenty of coaching to me. One more thing, as someone mentioned, he is going to really shoot up boards after the combine. So will Corey Liuget and Mikel Leshoure...which will make treat even more mad because he hates Illinois.

87Canes
02-01-2011, 10:25 PM
Tez's best fit would be Mike or Ted in a 3-4 scheme, not Will or Sam. He's more of a field general than anything and has great speed to run side to side.

Spartan4224
02-02-2011, 09:09 AM
Wilson reminds me of Karlos Dansby, I think he will be drafted at the top of round 2 like Dansby was. Both are tall, crazy athletic, and strong linebackers who offer some versatility who can pressure the QB when asked to.

I watched him in person against MSU and a couple of other times on TV. I agree he is very similiar to Karlos Dansby. I think he will go much higher than expected based on his abilty to play inside and outside in both the 4-3 and the 3-4. I think early to mid 2nd is about right. He might drop to late in the 2nd but I don't think any later.

Also, Corey Liguet is the real deal. He looked like a linebacker against MSU with the way he was always around the ball.

bigbenn
02-06-2011, 11:18 AM
Thought I'd add a few highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaHX-bi6IJ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeXDO4o9NU0

Nebula
02-06-2011, 11:26 AM
Thought I'd add a few highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaHX-bi6IJ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeXDO4o9NU0

That last link looked pretty impressive. I would prefer to watch actual game film of him, however. I want to know about his read & react skills and his instincts. Wilson made some plays back there and it looks like he is a very talented pass rusher, skill set might be better off in a 3-4

jnew76
02-07-2011, 10:36 PM
Wilson will be heavily scrutinized by NFL medical staffs after having neck surgery for a herniated disk and missing all but one game in 2009. A clean bill of health and impressive combine will do a lot for Wilson's stock. He should have the impressive combine, but the medical questions make me hesitant to have him rated as a first or early second round prospect.

We will likely not know his medical status prior to the draft unless it is bad news. Knee surgery is one thing, lots of players have had them... But neck surgery is something different. It is hard for me to imagine a team using a 1rst or 2nd round pick on someone who has had neck surgery.

bitonti
02-09-2011, 06:11 PM
on my board it's either Wilson or Nate Irving as top ILB.

Kelvin Sheppard and Chris White are both underrated too but won't be projected as 3 down players.