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View Full Version : This Offensive Tackle Class is Michael Jackson Bad


TheFinisher
01-31-2011, 07:43 PM
No sugar coating, is this the worst class we've ever seen?

Anthony Costanzo, Nate Solder, Tyron Smith, etc.....

All the possible 1st Rounders leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Mr.Regular
01-31-2011, 07:53 PM
It isn't the best, but it seems worse than it probably is because A) There's no standout elite guys like Joe Thomas or Jake Long and B) We've been spoiled recently with incredible tackle classes....the past 2 years were pretty damn stacked.
There is some nice depth this year. Carimi, Sherrod, Castonzo, Smith, and Solder could all end up in round 1. That's a lot of potential first rounders. It's just that none of them are elite...kind of like this year's QB class. A lot of solid players, but nothing eye-popping. They all have flaws that are keeping them out of the top.

Some nice depth later too. Lee Ziemba could be a solid RT, Ben Ijalana is someone to keep an eye on..James Brewer is moving up boards.... a lot of people seem to like Orlando Franklin (I really need to focus in on him more)...not sure if anyone still believes in DeMarcus Love as a tackle, but I know a lot of people (including me) we're high on him earlier in the season.

So, ya, it's not the best class, but it's not awful.

TheSlinger
01-31-2011, 07:54 PM
Worst I can remember. IMO the far and away #1 OT is Gabe Carimi and he's probably a right tackle, which says a lot. We might even see an interior lineman drafted before a tackle... but probably not.

TACKLE
01-31-2011, 07:55 PM
On a top 10 list that included OT's from the three draft classes ('09,'10'11), not one of these guys would sniff the top 8.

RaiderNation
01-31-2011, 07:57 PM
We know...

Mr.Regular
01-31-2011, 08:00 PM
On a top 10 list that included OT's from the three draft classes ('09,'10'11), not one of these guys would sniff the top 8.
True. We were spoiled.
Okung, Williams, Davis, Bulaga, J.Smith, A.Smith, Monroe, Oher... all better than these guys.
Then look at 2008... Long, Clady, Albert, Williams, Otah, Cherilus.... and 2007 had 2 guys in the top 5, including the best tackle prospect of the bunch probably in Joe Thomas.

dannyz
01-31-2011, 08:00 PM
I get sick of Mayock saying all these OT's are 1ST Round pick's. When the Draft comes and none of these guys go in the 1ST I want to see his stupid reaction.

TheFinisher
01-31-2011, 08:02 PM
True. We were spoiled.
Okung, Williams, Davis, Bulaga, J.Smith, A.Smith, Monroe, Oher... all better than these guys.
Then look at 2008... Long, Clady, Albert, Williams, Otah, Cherilus.... and 2007 had 2 guys in the top 5, including the best tackle prospect of the punch probably in Joe Thomas.

Sad part is it's not even close.

Realistically, who in this class could step in from Day 1 and start?

TACKLE
01-31-2011, 08:03 PM
I get sick of Mayock saying all these OT's are 1ST Round pick's. When the Draft comes and none of these guys go in the 1ST I want to see his stupid reaction.

So you think no OT's will go in the first round? Okie doke. Good luck on seeing that stupid reaction.

RaiderNation
01-31-2011, 08:03 PM
I get sick of Mayock saying all these OT's are 1ST Round pick's. When the Draft comes and none of these guys go in the 1ST I want to see his stupid reaction.

I guarentee 3 OT's go in the 1st round.

Carimi, Solder and Smith/Castonzo. OT is always one of the most sought after positions and that wont change this year

Unbiased
01-31-2011, 08:05 PM
There have probably be been worse OT classes, but we put such an emphasis on the LT position is this day and age, so it's more noticeable how bad it is.

Mr.Regular
01-31-2011, 08:05 PM
Well, as I said, looks like as of now there are 5 potential first rounders...that's quite a bit. But all have huge flaws.
Solder....he's pure potential at this point. A total project. Never really impressed in games that much and he gets beaten on the edge way too often.
Castonzo...struggled at the end of the year. Is he purely a RT?
Carimi...probably becoming my favourite of the bunch, but again, many people think he's only a RT.
Sherrod...will never blow you away. Very solid player, but is he worth a first round pick? Might not have a high ceiling.
Smith....again, pure potential. Projects as a LT only, but has never played there. Needs to add a ton of bulk.

How many of them actually do go round 1?

Nebula
01-31-2011, 08:36 PM
Well, as I said, looks like as of now there are 5 potential first rounders...that's quite a bit. But all have huge flaws.
Solder....he's pure potential at this point. A total project. Never really impressed in games that much and he gets beaten on the edge way too often.
Castonzo...struggled at the end of the year. Is he purely a RT?
Carimi...probably becoming my favourite of the bunch, but again, many people think he's only a RT.
Sherrod...will never blow you away. Very solid player, but is he worth a first round pick? Might not have a high ceiling.
Smith....again, pure potential. Projects as a LT only, but has never played there. Needs to add a ton of bulk.

How many of them actually do go round 1?

You're completely accurate. Heck, on most years Carimi is a 2nd round pick.

Come to think of it, an absolutely terrible TE class too. Many players are going to get overdrafted

wogitalia
01-31-2011, 08:40 PM
A) There's no standout elite guys like Joe Thomas or Jake Long

I don't get the revisionist history on Jake Long? The vast majority seemed to think he was destined to be a RT, he basically was the same prospect as a couple of the guys in this draft and one team felt he had the tools they wanted and went and got him.

I think this OT class is getting massively underrated, it seems like draftniks have fallen in love with workout warriors at OT all of a sudden as we are finally getting away from that kind of philosophy with other positions.

Look at the last few drafts, the guys that have been the "top" prospects have been the workout warriors, Davis, Campbell, Okung and even Trent Williams. Bulaga and Saffold, the two "technicians" with less than ideal measurables probably had the two best seasons. Okung is the rare best of both worlds and Williams was pretty good as well but so far Davis and Campbell have stunk.

2009 was more of the same. Jason Smith was the workout warrior, Monroe the solid all around guy, Smith has just stunk, Oher fell because he was what he was and Loadholt ditto. Again everyone got wowed by what Smith might be able to become not what he was and the ready to go guys got downgraded to RTs in Oher and Loadholt, Loadholt has been pretty solid for Minny at RT, Oher was pretty good at LT this year after being very good at RT last year.

In the last two years it just seems that teams have gone away from drafting the guys who have shown themselves to be very good OT prospects to try and draft those guys who have elite potential, ie workout warriors who move well. Just watch this year, guys like Carimi, Costanzo, Brewer, Gilbert and Sherrod will fall as prospects while everyone gets excited by Smith and Solder types who will wow at the combine.

I think this is actually a very strong OT class. I see a good 3 or 4 guys with the ability to be LTs, maybe not Joe Thomas good, but very good LTs that you can rely on to protect the QB and get some push in the run game.

It's going to be more of the rich get richer though I feel. The good teams will get the guys like Carimi who come in and start from day one and are excellent OTs whilst the bad teams will spend years trying to develop Solder into a LT.

Just my thoughts though..

Michigan
01-31-2011, 09:09 PM
I don't get the revisionist history on Jake Long? The vast majority seemed to think he was destined to be a RT, he basically was the same prospect as a couple of the guys in this draft and one team felt he had the tools they wanted and went and got him.

Jake Long had all the tools of an elite LT. Size, footwork, athleticism, attitude, strength, technique, experience, etc. The only reason a vast minority of people thought he could be a RT was simply because he was really strong. That's pretty much it. Long is neck and neck with Thomas and Gallery for best OT prospect in the 2000's IMO.

dannyz
01-31-2011, 09:29 PM
So you think no OT's will go in the first round? Okie doke. Good luck on seeing that stupid reaction.

Forget what I said. He still thinks there will be alot of OT's in the first and I think maybe one or two.

gpngc
01-31-2011, 09:35 PM
It isn't the best, but it seems worse than it probably is because A) There's no standout elite guys like Joe Thomas or Jake Long and B) We've been spoiled recently with incredible tackle classes....the past 2 years were pretty damn stacked.
There is some nice depth this year. Carimi, Sherrod, Castonzo, Smith, and Solder could all end up in round 1. That's a lot of potential first rounders. It's just that none of them are elite...kind of like this year's QB class. A lot of solid players, but nothing eye-popping. They all have flaws that are keeping them out of the top.

Some nice depth later too. Lee Ziemba could be a solid RT, Ben Ijalana is someone to keep an eye on..James Brewer is moving up boards.... a lot of people seem to like Orlando Franklin (I really need to focus in on him more)...not sure if anyone still believes in DeMarcus Love as a tackle, but I know a lot of people (including me) we're high on him earlier in the season.

So, ya, it's not the best class, but it's not awful.

I agree with you that the top looks worse than it really is because of the lack of an Okung/Long/Thomas.

But the two bolded guys will be lucky to be GUARDS at the next level.

The OT class is a good microcosm of this entire draft. Some nice players of course, but few true can't-miss, slightly-flawed prospects, and the probability of a couple of gems scattered throughout a field of ****. Reminds me of 2005...

wogitalia
01-31-2011, 10:11 PM
Jake Long had all the tools of an elite LT. Size, footwork, athleticism, attitude, strength, technique, experience, etc. The only reason a vast minority of people thought he could be a RT was simply because he was really strong. That's pretty much it. Long is neck and neck with Thomas and Gallery for best OT prospect in the 2000's IMO.

Hey you might have felt that way, I know I did(felt the same on Bulaga and feel the same on Carimi this year) but that doesn't change the fact that the consensus, at least around here, was that he was more of a RT prospect and that his pass blocking was suspect.

Just so you don't think I'm making it up, here are 4 threads where the general consensus is that he is more of a RT and of general doubt of his ability to be a great LT in the pros...

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8960&page=2&highlight=Jake+Long

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13709&highlight=Jake+Long

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13192&highlight=Jake+Long

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12208&highlight=Jake+Long

Again... it seems like if a guy doesn't measure at 6'7 and run a 4.8 that he can't be a LT in this league from a prospect point of view. Yet Long didn't manage an outstanding 40 time. Saffold last year was no good at the combine from a measurement angle.

It's the Orlando Pace and Ogden factor. Sure you get them once every 10 or so years(Joe Thomas the latest) but guys that big and quick that can play football are rare. Just because you aren't that quick doesn't mean you should throw the playing football thing out the window.

I will go out and say that two teams will get a steal with Carimi and Sherrod if they are late 1st round picks. Both are just rock solid prospects who are very good at just about everything you can ask an OT to do, and believe me, very good at everything is a great OT. Carimi is probably going to be an elite run blocker as well, which makes him just about a clone of Jake Long coming out for mine.

For whatever reason we haven't got an "elite" graded OT this year but I think we have 3 or 4 guys that will be very solid pros that warrant first round picks. Maybe I just overvalue the value of a great OT given how bad my team's LT is.

OT is basically the polar opposite of QB in this draft. A whole bunch of rock solid know what you get types with very few high risk/reward guys(Smith and Solder basically) where as the QB class has next to no safe picks and a whole lot of boom or bust types. We just seem far too enamoured with those boom or busts, potential. The NBA went through a phase of that and it was a disaster it looks like the NFL is pretty keen to give it a go...

GB12
01-31-2011, 10:19 PM
Sad part is it's not even close.

Realistically, who in this class could step in from Day 1 and start?
Maybe not on the left, but Carimi definitely could on the right.

DBNYDP
01-31-2011, 10:20 PM
I'd add Ryan Clady but hey that is just me.

Michigan
01-31-2011, 10:41 PM
Just so you don't think I'm making it up, here are 4 threads where the general consensus is that he is more of a RT and of general doubt of his ability to be a great LT in the pros...

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8960&page=2&highlight=Jake+Long

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13709&highlight=Jake+Long

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13192&highlight=Jake+Long

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12208&highlight=Jake+Long



Those threads aren't even within a half-year of the actual draft. By January it was pretty clear that Long was a franchise-LT.

Mr.Regular
01-31-2011, 10:43 PM
I agree with you that the top looks worse than it really is because of the lack of an Okung/Long/Thomas.

But the two bolded guys will be lucky to be GUARDS at the next level.

I agree with you on Love... I have soured on him completely. Think he's a round 4-ish type guy maybe at guard, but I think some people still believe in him as a tackle.
Ziemba on the other hand, is someone I really like. I realize he doesn't have the make-up to be a LT, but I can see him contributing as a RT pretty early. Guy's underrated IMO, but of course I realize that he's being looked at as a guard by a lot of teams.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-31-2011, 11:21 PM
I remember thinking the last couple tackle classes were loaded and saying to myself "Is it going to be like this every year from now on? Have 300+ pound guys just become that common?"

it's good that this class sucks imo. how many more teams can draft LTs before everyone has one?

wogitalia
01-31-2011, 11:27 PM
Those threads aren't even within a half-year of the actual draft. By January it was pretty clear that Long was a franchise-LT.

Those were just the first 4 I found, there are plenty more closer to the draft. Scott's profile had the exact same doubts, questioned if he could play LT at the NFL level.

He absolutely an elite OT prospect but it was as a RT, there were concerns over him as a LT. It's not a knock on him at all, just how he was portrayed as a prospect. This draft seems to have a fair few guys getting the same treatment.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-31-2011, 11:37 PM
Long was considered a top 5 prospect all the way up to the draft but the RT thing was a very real knock that people focused on

SenorGato
01-31-2011, 11:47 PM
I agree with you on Love... I have soured on him completely. Think he's a round 4-ish type guy maybe at guard, but I think some people still believe in him as a tackle.
Ziemba on the other hand, is someone I really like. I realize he doesn't have the make-up to be a LT, but I can see him contributing as a RT pretty early. Guy's underrated IMO, but of course I realize that he's being looked at as a guard by a lot of teams.

I like Ziemba too as a RT prospect...better than Gilbert from Florida, who got some/more hype last week.

OL class isn't terrible...there's just no super freak standout guy...

wogitalia
02-01-2011, 12:47 AM
Long was considered a top 5 prospect all the way up to the draft but the RT thing was a very real knock that people focused on

Yep, spot on. I see a lot of the prospects getting that this year. It just seems like nowadays if you are big and strong and don't run a 4.8 or better then you aren't a LT prospect, which generally carries a notable downgrade with it.

Hell I remember Williams had that as a knock last year and when he ran a 4.9 people started thinking maybe he could play LT.

I just think we are putting too much emphasis on speed when grading this years class. I mean Smith and Solder have become the top two prospects all of a sudden, what more evidence do I need.

Day One Pick
02-01-2011, 05:12 AM
It isn't the best, but it seems worse than it probably is because A) There's no standout elite guys like Joe Thomas or Jake Long and B) We've been spoiled recently with incredible tackle classes....the past 2 years were pretty damn stacked.
There is some nice depth this year. Carimi, Sherrod, Castonzo, Smith, and Solder could all end up in round 1. That's a lot of potential first rounders. It's just that none of them are elite...kind of like this year's QB class. A lot of solid players, but nothing eye-popping. They all have flaws that are keeping them out of the top.

Some nice depth later too. Lee Ziemba could be a solid RT, Ben Ijalana is someone to keep an eye on..James Brewer is moving up boards.... a lot of people seem to like Orlando Franklin (I really need to focus in on him more)...not sure if anyone still believes in DeMarcus Love as a tackle, but I know a lot of people (including me) we're high on him earlier in the season.

So, ya, it's not the best class, but it's not awful.

I was going to say pretty much everything you said in your first paragraph.

descendency
02-01-2011, 07:00 AM
Sherrod...will never blow you away. Very solid player, but is he worth a first round pick? Might not have a high ceiling.

If you missed the weigh-in, allow me to inform you:

Derek Sherrod 6055, 312, 11 inch hands, 35.5 inch arms (total wingspan of 84 inches). He is HUGE. He may not have Nate Solder upside, but he definitely has a high ceiling.

Matthew Jones
02-01-2011, 07:07 AM
A lot of these guys will go in the first round. Lots of teams need offensive line help and look at some of the other guys who have been first round picks - Eric Wood, Sam Baker, Duane Brown, Davin Joseph, Chris Spencer, etc., all of whom were lower ranked than some of the guys here.

Umoro
02-01-2011, 07:21 AM
I think that both Gabe Carimi and Tyron Smith have a good chance to be Pro Bowl OTs (even if only at RT) in the NFL.

Solder and Costanzo, not so much.

This class probably isn't as bad as it initially looks. One or two of these guys will eventually emerge in the NFL as a Pro Bowl caliber player. I'm sure of it.

yourfavestoner
02-01-2011, 10:38 AM
Don't forget that with the proliferation of the 3-4, a good RT is as important as ever.

SenorGato
02-01-2011, 10:46 AM
Don't forget that with the proliferation of the 3-4, a good RT is as important as ever.

Yep...took me a while to notice too...only saw it when the Jaguars took Britton in the same draft they took Monroe...not even sure if Britton plays RT anymore but the idea of looking for someone with his athleticism at RT flew right over my head.

yourfavestoner
02-01-2011, 11:07 AM
Yep...took me a while to notice too...only saw it when the Jaguars took Britton in the same draft they took Monroe...not even sure if Britton plays RT anymore but the idea of looking for someone with his athleticism at RT flew right over my head.

Notice, too, that the Rams didn't hesitate to move Smith to RT when Saffold dropped to them. And look how much not having both Gaither and Oher hurt the Ravens offense this year.

jrdrylie
02-01-2011, 11:24 AM
I think this Offensive Tackle draft is very underrated. Maybe none of these guys will be Super Star tackles, but I think Castonzo and Sherrod are going to be long time starters in this league. Solder and Smith have very high ceilings. And mid-round, there are quite a few tackle/guards that will likely be starting soon, maybe even next year.

Halsey
02-01-2011, 11:26 AM
Predicting how good an entire class of OTs will turn out is pretty hard. How many people thought Chad Clifton would start for a decade? The NFL is full of OTs who either exceeded or fell short of what everyone thought they knew about them when drafted.

brat316
02-01-2011, 11:34 AM
I can see at least 2 OT going in the first round. Eagles and Steelers both desperately need a RT. I can't see them waiting around in the second round to see who falls from this class. They are all pretty closely rated, so it just depends on who they like better and taking their guy before anyone else does. Not trading up for him into the top 10, but these guys are in a pack from mid 1st to mid second round. I mean the top 5 guys.

Tryon Smith will be the last one picked from the top 5 guys.

descendency
02-01-2011, 04:54 PM
Don't forget that with the proliferation of the 3-4, a good RT is as important as ever.

Eh, I would argue that the importance of the RT hasn't grown nearly as much as the importance of a center who can anchor against a much larger opponent (NT). Or even that the entire OL has grown in significance (except LT, which is considered #2 behind QB) since the diversity of where blitzes can come from as well as the level of size/speed that DL now have (what a 270 lb 43 DE did 20 years ago can now be done by a 300+lb 34 DE)

Yep...took me a while to notice too...only saw it when the Jaguars took Britton in the same draft they took Monroe...not even sure if Britton plays RT anymore but the idea of looking for someone with his athleticism at RT flew right over my head.

I don't know if this changed, but Britton was playing LT over Monroe at one point.

edit: I only know this because I saw a forum mocking another draft "expert" for "sucking off" Monroe and then watching him not come out of the gate better than a second round pick.

TACKLE
02-01-2011, 04:58 PM
Notice, too, that the Rams didn't hesitate to move Smith to RT when Saffold dropped to them. And look how much not having both Gaither and Oher hurt the Ravens offense this year.

I've been saying this for a while now. The days of having a pass rushing RE and a 285 run stuffing LE are over. Teams, especially with the 3-4, have athletic pass rushers on both sides.

And as underrated as the Right Tackle position is, the Left Tackle position is even more overrated.

yourfavestoner
02-01-2011, 04:59 PM
Eh, I would argue that the importance of the RT hasn't grown nearly as much as the importance of a center who can anchor against a much larger opponent (NT). Or even that the entire OL has grown in significance (except LT, which is considered #2 behind QB) since the diversity of where blitzes can come from as well as the level of size/speed that DL now have (what a 270 lb 43 DE did 20 years ago can now be done by a 300+lb 34 DE)



I don't know if this changed, but Britton was playing LT over Monroe at one point.

edit: I only know this because I saw a forum mocking another draft "expert" for "sucking off" Monroe and then watching him not come out of the gate better than a second round pick.

Whoever said that was dead wrong. Britton plays some guard in training camp (and may eventually make a full time switch there). He has not ever taken a snap at LT in either a practice or a game.

TACKLE
02-01-2011, 05:23 PM
Or even that the entire OL has grown in significance (except LT, which is considered #2 behind QB) since the diversity of where blitzes can come from as well as the level of size/speed that DL now have (what a 270 lb 43 DE did 20 years ago can now be done by a 300+lb 34 DE)

Pass rusher >> Left Tackle

Trust me. I can appreciate good O-Line play. But the value of the LT position has become very overrated as of late. There was a big phase where everyone was scared of this new wave of pass rushers and started overpaying LT. That combined with thing like Michael Lewis's book/movie can be attributed to this. There are no elite teams in the league with elite LT's, but the same can't be said about pass rushers.

bengalsbuckeye_28
02-01-2011, 06:00 PM
Pass rusher >> Left Tackle

Trust me. I can appreciate good O-Line play. But the value of the LT position has become very overrated as of late. There was a big phase where everyone was scared of this new wave of pass rushers and started overpaying LT. That combined with thing like Michael Lewis's book/movie can be attributed to this. There are no elite teams in the league with elite LT's, but the same can't be said about pass rushers.
Only true pending QB play. One of the characteristics of a great QB is the ability to compensate for weak offensive line play. Guys like Big Ben or Peyton Manning extend plays, albeit in vastly different ways one with pre-snap adjustments and quick release and the other with sheer mass and physical strength. However if you are stuck with a less than elite QB than picking up an elite left tackle is paramount to success.

That is from a success standpoint however. From a fiscal standpoint it's only logical for LT to be such a high paying position, and a position drafted so highly. The Quarterback is the highest paying position in the NFL, and far and away the most important. You gotta protect your investment, and the best way to do that is by drafting a franchise left tackle.

Hines
02-01-2011, 07:10 PM
Why has Love dropped for a lot of people?

TACKLE
02-01-2011, 07:22 PM
Why has Love dropped for a lot of people?

Because he isn't good. He was overrated big time to start off with. He got abused by Cameron Heyward in the bowl game and really struggled at Senior Bowl.

umphrey
02-01-2011, 08:25 PM
I don't really understand all the hate Carimi and Castanzo get. Neither are elite or top 10 grade prospects but first round grade in almost any draft. Past that, you have to start looking at right tackles and interior lineman. In addition, there are few if any players that you might project as sleeper left tackles, or big on potential without a lot of production. You put that together with the lack of elite players and it is a pretty weak class. There will still be at least 3 offensive tackles in the first round though. Teams start drafting right tackles and guards as early as the teens and there are definitely options there.

DMWSackMachine
02-01-2011, 09:03 PM
This thread is filled with misinformation and revisionist history.

First of all, Jake Long was never really that elite guy. He wasn't on the same level as Joe Thomas, Jason Smith, D'Brick or even Monroe. He was a very solid guy who scouts were split about as far as his prospects on the left side went. Very few had him in the top 5 guys in that draft. He was quite close to Russell Okung, actually. A sure fire top 10 guy who had a strong all around game, but who didn't light anyone on fire with his upside. When the Dolphins decided on him as their guy at the #1 spot, a lot of eyebrows went up. Now that he has answered every question and become an elite player, people have gone back and retracted all the criticisms they made of him at the time. Jake Long wasn't one of the best 5 OT prospects of the last half decade.


As for this draft class being terrible--this is just people talking to talk. Solder was an excellent player this year. Tyron Smith was probably the only guy in the nation that was able to block Cam Jordan. Carimi is Jake Long-lite to me (right down to playing in the Big 10). Sherrod is very solid all around. Ben Ijalana is also a border line 1st guy, imo.

You want a terrible OT class? Look at 2005. Jamal Brown and Alex Barron were the only two first round OTs that year. Brown was considered exclusively as a RT at the time and when NO tabbed him at 13 it was considered a reach. Of course, he was a 1st team All Pro a year later on the left side. Alex Barron was spectacularly bad for a long time in STL. Not sure how he stayed in the league. That was it.

Of course, small-school prospect Michael Roos went early in the 2nd, but that's the way of things. At least 4 OTs will go in the first this year, and I'm sure that at least two of them will be Pro Bowl type players. The class is fine. If Joe Thomas was in this class, everyone would be talking about how strong the position is.

Master Exploder
02-01-2011, 09:49 PM
I'm curious as to what happens when somebody drafts one of these OT's in the top 10 or top 15.

Do you guys believe that it will create a run on tackles? I think there are 5 legitimate 1st rounders, but I'm not sold that they will all go in the 1st; however, I think if someone was to pounce on one of these guys early, then it may change the angle of quite a few teams drafting at the back-end of round 1.

gpngc
02-01-2011, 09:50 PM
I'm curious as to what happens when somebody drafts one of these OT's in the top 10 or top 15.

Do you guys believe that it will create a run on tackles? I think there are 5 legitimate 1st rounders, but I'm not sold that they will all go in the 1st; however, I think if someone was to pounce on one of these guys early, then it may change the angle of quite a few teams drafting at the back-end of round 1.

It's possible that a surprise pick creates a domino effect.

However, there aren't a lot of teams in the first half of the draft that need OTs.

But remember, last year at this time most people didn't have Trent Williams in the top 15. He ended up going #4...

descendency
02-01-2011, 09:56 PM
Pass rusher >> Left Tackle

Trust me. I can appreciate good O-Line play. But the value of the LT position has become very overrated as of late. There was a big phase where everyone was scared of this new wave of pass rushers and started overpaying LT. That combined with thing like Michael Lewis's book/movie can be attributed to this. There are no elite teams in the league with elite LT's, but the same can't be said about pass rushers.

Personally, I'm more concerned about run blocking as long as they are not a liability in the pass blocking. I think OL make more of a difference in run blocking than pass blocking.

wogitalia
02-02-2011, 01:43 AM
There are no elite teams in the league with elite LT's, but the same can't be said about pass rushers.

The Jets are really the only one I can come up with to rebut this but it is a fair point.

I value OL play very highly but something I've noticed is that elite interior line play seems to have a bigger influence on overall blocking. Looking at the top teams and lines of recent times and it is a definite trend that having a very good C or Gs has been effective. New Orleans last year had great guard play. GB this year has had great C/G play, Pittsburgh's has been good, historically it was strength of the Colts, Packers have been good for a while, Jets have had a great interior line the past couple of years.

It just seems that if teams are forced outside that it is easier to pickup, which makes sense really.

That said, a great OT is still nice to have!

Cicero
02-02-2011, 02:11 AM
Agreed with the OP. This OT class is absolutely terrible. Carimi and Smith are the only guys I would even consider in round 2.

nepg
02-02-2011, 08:57 AM
There are a lot of under-the-radar guys this year like Rich Lapham. It might be weak as far as clear-cut elite talent goes, but there are a lot of potential starters in this OT class. As a fan of a team that doesn't have a high draft pick, I love this OT class.

SRogers92
02-02-2011, 09:42 AM
Couple of things ... people that keep acting like the NFL has been revolutionized because of the 34 defense need to realize ... there's still more 43 teams in the league ...

3-4: 14 teams(assuming Denver stays 34)
4-3: 18

Nothing has changed ... OTs are still a hot commodity and have always been that way ... the reason they are more important now isn't so much the defenses people run as the offenses teams run ... it's a pass happy league these days with these ultra-physical-freak-WRs coming out every year and with RBs seemingly hurt every other game ...


On to the debate ... I agree, this is a crap class, IMO ... Carimi and Sherrod are the only two guys I really feel solid on and Carimi, for me, isn't a sure-fire LT but, as of right now, I think he can play the position ... I think whichever team takes Solder in Round 1, if any, will be sorely disappointed ...

yourfavestoner
02-02-2011, 10:19 AM
Couple of things ... people that keep acting like the NFL has been revolutionized because of the 34 defense need to realize ... there's still more 43 teams in the league ...

3-4: 14 teams(assuming Denver stays 34)
4-3: 18

Nothing has changed ... OTs are still a hot commodity and have always been that way ... the reason they are more important now isn't so much the defenses people run as the offenses teams run ... it's a pass happy league these days with these ultra-physical-freak-WRs coming out every year and with RBs seemingly hurt every other game ...


On to the debate ... I agree, this is a crap class, IMO ... Carimi and Sherrod are the only two guys I really feel solid on and Carimi, for me, isn't a sure-fire LT but, as of right now, I think he can play the position ... I think whichever team takes Solder in Round 1, if any, will be sorely disappointed ...

Yeah, but it used to be that you'd see two or maybe three 3-4 defenses a year, at most. Now, teams are seeing them every other week. That's a huge difference.

SRogers92
02-02-2011, 01:03 PM
I still think it's much more to do with the offenses people run as opposed to the defenses people run ...