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View Full Version : Cam Jordan over JJ Watt??


FloridaFootball1
02-08-2011, 12:26 PM
Can anyone please explain to me why he is being ranked over JJ Watt?? I really don't see one thing that he does better.

GoRavens
02-08-2011, 12:28 PM
Cam Jordan had a monster senior week. He was the best player on the field.
Dominating everyone. JJ Watt will be a bum in the NFL, like Adam Carriker

A Perfect Score
02-08-2011, 12:30 PM
I'm a huge fan of Cam Jordan, so Im probably a little bias, but I think he's a more explosive player then Watt. Watt is definitely huge, and strong, but I think Jordan has a little more quickness coming around the edge and while he isn't as strong at the POA, he can certainly hold his own. I think most people view them both as 5 techs, but Im of the mind that Jordan could play LDE in a 4-3 at a very high level a la Justin Tuck. Watt could definitely play there as well, Im just not sure I see the burst off the line to be successful as a pass rusher in a 4-3.

Overall, I think Jordan is a little more explosive and a little more scheme versatile. That said, I know that some guys like TACKLE disagree with me here, so this could just be what I see.

SolidGold
02-08-2011, 12:37 PM
I don't think you can go wrong with either Watt or Jordan. Both will be impact players.

Carriker actually played well this year as a 3-4 DE for the Redskins. He was injured during his time in St. Louis and misused as a 4-3 DT at 6'6.

lowlife
02-08-2011, 12:42 PM
Both will be picked in the same vicinity and be impact players for their respective teams. Like previously stated, you really can't go wrong with either.

ElectricEye
02-08-2011, 12:47 PM
I'm a huge fan of Cam Jordan, so Im probably a little bias, but I think he's a more explosive player then Watt. Watt is definitely huge, and strong, but I think Jordan has a little more quickness coming around the edge and while he isn't as strong at the POA, he can certainly hold his own. I think most people view them both as 5 techs, but Im of the mind that Jordan could play LDE in a 4-3 at a very high level a la Justin Tuck. Watt could definitely play there as well, Im just not sure I see the burst off the line to be successful as a pass rusher in a 4-3.

Overall, I think Jordan is a little more explosive and a little more scheme versatile. That said, I know that some guys like TACKLE disagree with me here, so this could just be what I see.
Yeah, I was going to post something but I realized I would basically just be paraphrasing this. My take on the issue as well. I think the number one thing Jordan has over Watt is the scheme versatility. He's a guy you can realistically project anywhere with the exception of nose tackle in a 3-4. I'm salivating at the prospect on the Patriots drafting him then moving him around in our sub-packages.

As far as Watt goes, I'm very much a fan...but he's just a lot more raw than Jordan is and a similar talent. He has the size advantage and could end up being HUUUGE(He looks skinny for 6'6 292.) and that's certainly a plus, but besides that there's not much he has on him.

Unbiased
02-08-2011, 12:50 PM
Watt should have put up better sack numbers because he played end in a 4-3 scheme. Jordan put up very similar sack totals as an end in a gap-control 3-4 scheme.

FloridaFootball1
02-08-2011, 01:11 PM
I definitely don't see Jordan being more explosive.

Watt should have put up better sack numbers because he played end in a 4-3 scheme. Jordan put up very similar sack totals as an end in a gap-control 3-4 scheme.

Watt was also third in the nation for TFL and had 3 forced fumbles and blocked some kicks. The guy was everywhere.

TACKLE
02-08-2011, 01:17 PM
I'm a huge fan of Cam Jordan, so Im probably a little bias, but I think he's a more explosive player then Watt. Watt is definitely huge, and strong, but I think Jordan has a little more quickness coming around the edge and while he isn't as strong at the POA, he can certainly hold his own. I think most people view them both as 5 techs, but Im of the mind that Jordan could play LDE in a 4-3 at a very high level a la Justin Tuck. Watt could definitely play there as well, Im just not sure I see the burst off the line to be successful as a pass rusher in a 4-3.

Overall, I think Jordan is a little more explosive and a little more scheme versatile. That said, I know that some guys like TACKLE disagree with me here, so this could just be what I see.

Although I prefer Watt and think he could end up being the most disruptive defensive lineman in this draft other than Fairley, I'm not in strong disagreement with anything you said.

The one thing I do disagree on is Cameron Jordan being more scheme diverse. I've very much changed my tune on is what position Jordan belongs at. He needs to be a LE in a 4-3 all the way. If he can drop 10lbs that would be even better. As a 3-4 DE he worries me some and think he may struggle there especially in a two gap scheme. Despite having the right size for a 5-tech being 6'4 and just under 290, he is a finesse player. When lined up inside, I've yet to see him flash impressive power and he doesn't have much of a bull rush at all. He can hold his ground in the interior but he's not going to be a guy who can overpower guards inside. IMO, he just lacks the physicality to be a full time interior player. Whereas playing LE in the 4-3 caters much more to his strengths. He has a really nice repertoire of pass rush moves, he's quick off the ball, can get up field and turn the corner. In a 4-3, I'm a believer in Cam Jordan. In a 3-4, not so much. I know most would probably disagree but that's just what I see when I watch him.

Babylon
02-08-2011, 01:23 PM
I definitely don't see Jordan being more explosive.



Watt was also third in the nation for TFL and had 3 forced fumbles and blocked some kicks. The guy was everywhere.

I dont think Jordan is all that explosive either and i saw a ton of Pac-10 games this year. The game that stood out for me in watching Watt was the Ohio st. game where he showed great closing speed in getting to Pryor. I dont think you can go wrong with either.

Matthew Jones
02-08-2011, 01:42 PM
Watt is more athletic than Jordan if you ask me, I'd say it's the other way around from what someone posted earlier, that Watt is the better pass rusher and Cam Jordan is the better run defender at this point. Both should be great in the NFL though depending on what situation they end up in.

DiG
02-08-2011, 01:42 PM
Cam Jordan had a monster senior week. He was the best player on the field.
Dominating everyone. JJ Watt will be a bum in the NFL, like Adam Carriker

Carriker might have been the best player on the line for the Skins this past year (not saying a lot but you get the point). He's transitioned pretty well into the 3-4 where he originally belonged anyway.

TACKLE
02-08-2011, 01:47 PM
Carriker might have been the best player on the line for the Skins this past year (not saying a lot but you get the point). He's transitioned pretty well into the 3-4 where he originally belonged anyway.

Absolutely. I mean Carriker was playing 4-3 NT at 6'6 for majority of his career. Schematically, it was one of the worst possible fits for him. Seeing a lot of Adam Carriker in a DE prospect is not a bad thing at all.

ElectricEye
02-08-2011, 01:49 PM
Yeah, I haven't given up on Carriker yet either. He was over-drafted and misused, but he still has a chance to be a real good player now that he's playing in a friendly scheme. I was impressed when I saw him last year. Cautionary tale about drafting tall tackles into a 4-3 defense though.

A Perfect Score
02-08-2011, 01:51 PM
Although I prefer Watt and think he could end up being the most disruptive defensive lineman in this draft other than Fairley, I'm not in strong disagreement with anything you said.

The one thing I do disagree on is Cameron Jordan being more scheme diverse. I've very much changed my tune on is what position Jordan belongs at. He needs to be a LE in a 4-3 all the way. If he can drop 10lbs that would be even better. As a 3-4 DE he worries me some and think he may struggle there especially in a two gap scheme. Despite having the right size for a 5-tech being 6'4 and just under 290, he is a finesse player. When lined up inside, I've yet to see him flash impressive power and he doesn't have much of a bull rush at all. He can hold his ground in the interior but he's not going to be a guy who can overpower guards inside. IMO, he just lacks the physicality to be a full time interior player. Whereas playing LE in the 4-3 caters much more to his strengths. He has a really nice repertoire of pass rush moves, he's quick off the ball, can get up field and turn the corner. In a 4-3, I'm a believer in Cam Jordan. In a 3-4, not so much. I know most would probably disagree but that's just what I see when I watch him.

Thats a harsh 180 from where you were a week ago when I was telling you Jordan would be best in a 4-3. Nice to see you've come around :D

TACKLE
02-08-2011, 01:52 PM
Yeah, I haven't given up on Carriker yet either. He was over-drafted and misused, but he still has a chance to be a real good player now that he's playing in a friendly scheme. I was impressed when I saw him last year. Cautionary tale about drafting tall tackles into a 4-3 defense though.

Of course he was misused. He was a college DE who was moved to NT. But how was he over-drafted?

ElectricEye
02-08-2011, 02:00 PM
Of course he was misused. He was a college DE who was moved to NT. But how was he over-drafted?

I didn't think he was a top fifteen talent coming out. He really helped himself at the combine a TON that year if I remember correctly, but I really didn't see him as much more than a good defensive linemen who would be potentially much better in a 3-4. Was sort of shocked when the Rams drafted him, although I don't remember what they were doing with their defensive scheme around that time. Thought he would go just a bit lower to a team looking for a five technique.

Babylon
02-08-2011, 02:06 PM
I didn't think he was a top fifteen talent coming out. He really helped himself at the combine a TON that year if I remember correctly, but I really didn't see him as much more than a good defensive linemen who would be potentially much better in a 3-4. Was sort of shocked when the Rams drafted him, although I don't remember what they were doing with their defensive scheme around that time. Thought he would go just a bit lower to a team looking for a five technique.

I think it's a mistake for some to associate Carriker with Watt, i just dont see it beyond the obvious measurables.

TACKLE
02-08-2011, 02:14 PM
I think it's a mistake for some to associate Carriker with Watt, i just dont see it beyond the obvious measurables.

Similar in ways but different styles for sure. Carriker's game was centered around his power and strength. Watt isn't quite the freak and doesn't have the same power, but is a more dynamic and disruptive player.

cajuncorey
02-08-2011, 02:49 PM
cameron jordan is a nightmare for offensive lineman. ive never seen someone as violent as this kid. he makes jj watt look like a choir boy.

descendency
02-08-2011, 02:53 PM
JJ Watt is a 43 DE.

Cam Jordan is a DL in any scheme.

RaiderNation
02-08-2011, 03:15 PM
I am a fan of both and see both being good players in the NFL. Jordan has the ability to play any position on the dline except NT in any scheme, while Watt's best fit is likely to be a 4-3 DE. They are both similar with the build they have and play. Both are locks to be top 16 picks

D-Unit
02-08-2011, 03:25 PM
Jordan and Watt would both be more successful as 4-3 DEs. I don't think they would have nearly the same type of success as a 3-4 space eating DEs. In fact, that would only raise their bust potential.

I think people just like peg holing them based off height/weight measurables and it's throwing them off.

TACKLE
02-08-2011, 04:04 PM
Thats a harsh 180 from where you were a week ago when I was telling you Jordan would be best in a 4-3. Nice to see you've come around :D

Well to be honest, its more based on what he can't do opposed to what he can do, so....... :/

Nebula
02-08-2011, 04:09 PM
JJ Watt's athleticism is a little overrated if you ask me. He doesn't have much upside. Burst and explosiveness are two different things than speed and strength. JJ Watt lacks elite speed and strength and has a somewhat average ceiling. He is a dominant technician, however

Grizzlegom
02-08-2011, 04:11 PM
Although I prefer Watt and think he could end up being the most disruptive defensive lineman in this draft other than Fairley, I'm not in strong disagreement with anything you said.

The one thing I do disagree on is Cameron Jordan being more scheme diverse. I've very much changed my tune on is what position Jordan belongs at. He needs to be a LE in a 4-3 all the way. If he can drop 10lbs that would be even better. As a 3-4 DE he worries me some and think he may struggle there especially in a two gap scheme. Despite having the right size for a 5-tech being 6'4 and just under 290, he is a finesse player. When lined up inside, I've yet to see him flash impressive power and he doesn't have much of a bull rush at all. He can hold his ground in the interior but he's not going to be a guy who can overpower guards inside. IMO, he just lacks the physicality to be a full time interior player. Whereas playing LE in the 4-3 caters much more to his strengths. He has a really nice repertoire of pass rush moves, he's quick off the ball, can get up field and turn the corner. In a 4-3, I'm a believer in Cam Jordan. In a 3-4, not so much. I know most would probably disagree but that's just what I see when I watch him.

This pretty much nails my feelings on these two.

ElectricEye
02-08-2011, 04:38 PM
Jordan and Watt would both be more successful as 4-3 DEs. I don't think they would have nearly the same type of success as a 3-4 space eating DEs. In fact, that would only raise their bust potential.

I think people just like peg holing them based off height/weight measurables and it's throwing them off.I don't think that's a fair thing to say about Jordan given that he already plays the position in college and was highly successful at it. Doesn't hurt that he has the measurables either.

GB12
02-08-2011, 04:50 PM
Cam Jordan had a monster senior week. He was the best player on the field.
Dominating everyone. JJ Watt will be a bum in the NFL, like Adam Carriker
Carriker is a terrible comparison for Watt.

ElectricEye
02-08-2011, 05:32 PM
Carriker is a terrible comparison for Watt.

As a prospect, yeah. As to what his role should be at the next level it's useful I think.


Two different games though.

descendency
02-08-2011, 05:38 PM
Jordan and Watt would both be more successful as 4-3 DEs. I don't think they would have nearly the same type of success as a 3-4 space eating DEs.

Cam Jordan has long strong arms. He is a little on the lite side, but I doubt he will struggle to anchor the run. He disengages well. As a matter of fact, the one major knock most people have on him is that he plays too out of control at times. Putting him in a 2 gap defense will force him to play more under control.

Cam Jordan is a DL in any scheme (to me). I'd play him 43 LDE, 34 DE, or 43 UT depending on the type of defense you run.

edit: Jordan tends to play 1 gap 34 DE. I could see Dallas jumping on him if they don't fill a bigger need (like Patrick Peterson falling to them)

SenorGato
02-08-2011, 06:59 PM
All day every day...I think Jordan's just a more stout player. Watt is up there though...I haven't seen him enough to buy the hype as much as I maybe should...I personally would like to see what he weighs in at at the combine....Either way I think Jordan's just an excellent player who fits the Trevor Pryce/Shaun Ellis type DE mold...even has the same body....one of the safest bets in the class to be a player.

SenorGato
02-08-2011, 07:07 PM
Carriker is a terrible comparison for Watt.

Just to get an explanation...why? Is he a better natural pass rusher than Carriker? From what I read he is...I think as prospects they're both guys who's ability to hold up to double teams consistently can be questioned, and they both have the big pluses of size, athleticism, and projectable bodies.

Iunno...not many 6'6 guys with Watt's supposed potential/upside/skillset ...maybe a not-6'8" version of Calais Campbell? Watt is just a wild card to me...someone I just don't know enough about and I'm always weary of guys who haven't had their game at least slightly picked apart...Has anyone thrown out an Aaron Smith for him or anything? I need more info on this guy.

nofalcons10
02-08-2011, 07:51 PM
Cameron jordan is this year's jared odrick IMO.

I've always compared Watt's talent to Jared allen. Watt has great Hand use, size, and Technique but only lacks great closing speed.

A Perfect Score
02-08-2011, 07:58 PM
Watt isn't anywhere near as explosive as Jared Allen. That's an awful comparison.

I really like the Aaron Smith comparison though. Similar size, skillets...I think Watt can be that kind of player in the NFL.

TACKLE
02-08-2011, 08:04 PM
Watt isn't anywhere near as explosive as Jared Allen. That's an awful comparison.

I really like the Aaron Smith comparison though. Similar size, skillets...I think Watt can be that kind of player in the NFL.

I think Cam Jordan is a 4-3 DE and now you think Watt can be an elite player at his position? Hmmm......times they are a changin.

nofalcons10
02-08-2011, 08:09 PM
Watt isn't anywhere near as explosive as Jared Allen. That's an awful comparison.

I really like the Aaron Smith comparison though. Similar size, skillets...I think Watt can be that kind of player in the NFL.

Watt is bigger than Allen and is closer to mario williams's 6-6 290 but i see the exact same potential to beat tackles with initial hand fighting and ability to turn the corner. I just don't think that watt has the speed to chase quarterbacks down from one sideline to the other. sometimes it looks like he's running in sand while chasing qbs but he makes up for it with initial release and change of direction skills.

Big Black
02-08-2011, 08:21 PM
I'd say JJ Watt's game is closest to that of either Aaron Smith or Justin Smith.

Stout edge defenders who have great motors.

nikkayeah
02-09-2011, 12:05 AM
I'd say JJ Watt's game is closest to that of either Aaron Smith or Justin Smith.

Stout edge defenders who are white.

thats what you meant right?

cajuncorey
02-09-2011, 12:06 PM
jj watt = adam carriker

i dont know how anyone could dispute that they are the exact same person... except carriker is actually a freak that jj watt will never be.

SenorGato
02-09-2011, 12:51 PM
Watt sounds like a guy who might help Cameron Heyward reach to somewhere where the Jets can grab him somehow. Keep hyping him, please.

TACKLE
02-09-2011, 02:32 PM
Watt sounds like a guy who might help Cameron Heyward reach to somewhere where the Jets can grab him somehow. Keep hyping him, please.

Don't get too worked up. Ravens will snatch up Heyward if he's there so you don't have to worry about him falling to you anyways.

RealityCheck
02-09-2011, 05:20 PM
Jordan is superior to Watt in each and every thing, imo.

bitonti
02-09-2011, 06:06 PM
im taking Cameron Jordan over any DE in the draft. Bowers, Quinn, all of em. Watt too. No offense to JJ Watt but Jordan is awesome.

Iamcanadian
02-09-2011, 06:30 PM
Can anyone please explain to me why he is being ranked over JJ Watt?? I really don't see one thing that he does better.

Mayock just put out his current 3-4 DE rankings, see my post, and he has J.J. Watt above Cameron Jordan, so you may indeed be spot on when all is said and done.