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Brown Leader
02-09-2011, 05:34 PM
Some fan banter...

My prediction is that in two years time he will have solidified himself as a better than serviceable to very good starting QB, but I'm not banking on elite. He will look just fine with some more weapons on offense and a defense that is at least slightly better than average.

Ken Stabler, Joe Montana and most recently Drew Brees had non-rocket arms and they all ended up winning a super bowl. Even if McCoy only ends up being as good as Chad Pennington, I am excited to have him because quality QBs are few and far between in this league.

Anyway we have more pressing issues in terms of another playmaker at WR and someone to get to the QB.

Colt is the guy. They may draft a back up for Colt and it will likely be in the 6th round I would say that they will keep an eye on tyrod taylor of Va Tech. he would be a very good late round QB to pick up that fits the system flawlessly and fits the type of QB that Holmgren loves a QB that is pass first he can run but he runs with his eyes down field. Also a smart guy who is supposed to have a good work ethic. the first 3 rounds will be dedicated to WR, DL, LB, and DB. All spots they need to find starting quality players.

You have to suspect that they won't be drafting a QB at #6 under any cirucmstances. Picking that high, they simply need to select the best player available. McCoy may or may not be "the guy" for the future, but he's shown that he's "a guy" that can hold down the fort while the team is built around him. Right now, the team needs to be built to beat the Ravens and the Steelers, and that means physical players that can play in three yards and a cloud of dust; in other words, keep the offense on the field chewing clock and give us a good look at the other punters in the AFC North.

Colt played against the Steelers twice, Baltimore, Jets, Patriots, Saints and Cincinnati
Name for me another Cleveland QB since the comeback that takes the team in a 2-min drill against the Jets to a tying TD. Then leads them to a winning drive in OT and one of his lame-a$$ receivers fumbles the ball.
Going into Camp as the #1 with all those reps will work wonders for him.
Colt showed me a lot. His end-of-season problems had more to do with the opponents and a defense that mailed it in, rather than the weather. He’ll be fine.


Funny how Colt is reading the tea leaves about his weak arm,Now professing his innocence or I mean his injury ??? He's a marked man now,they have film on him and he will be what he is another Danny Waurfel.

Should the front office accept Colt is the guy or look for someone better? My feeling is all teams should continue to look for better players at all positions all the time. Trouble is Cleveland has too many weak spots.

Regarding his pinched nerve, the National Championship game was the 2nd time. Many Texas insiders felt he hadn't fully recovered from the first one which happened on a QB sneak at the goal line. Does this make him injury prone? The answer either way is just opinion. All 3 QB's went down with an ankle injury, possibly they came from a team weakness instead of being injury prone.

Very interesting DC take...

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37753&page=9&highlight=Colt+McCoy


Two names that keep coming up in regards to McCoy possibly being a franchise QB are Jeff Garcia and Drew Brees. I was a big fan of Garcia and think he will forever be underrated-I liked Brees coming out of Purdue and was surprised at his early struggles in SD but I'm not a fan of either comparison. I don't think McCoy has the velocity or mobility of Garcia or the arm strength of Brees out of Purdue. And Brees' athletic ability is underrated. Colt certainly beats a coming out of Purdue Brees in a race but one of the most memorable plays I remember from Brees in college was him standing flat-footed-eyes downfield and hurdling a would be sacker-completely clearing him-landing, resetting and completing a down field pass.

At times last season Colt reminded me of a minature rookie Roethlisberger with his ability to squirt out of danger and make something happen and take what the defense gave him and I think his ultimate success would come if he could consistently make plays downfield like this. But I'm skeptical he could consistently do this (make plays downfield) and stay healthy with his stature (staying healthy for much of his college career means nothing in pros) or become a franchise caliber guy from the pocket, again because of his stature and arm strength.

As far as a first round QB-It seems to me Shurmur would prefer his own guy to develop but then again Colt was taken by Pat's boss. The real question is whether Holmgren/Heckert are sold on him after figuring him to sit and learn longer. McNabb to Cleveland would be a shock to me because I still think McNabb is a top QB and could really help out a contending team rather than a rebuilding one so I still contend they will draft Cam Newton is he's available.

j05son
02-09-2011, 05:44 PM
I read an article (no link, sorry) that Colt had nerve damage in his throwing shoulder from that hit in the BCS Championship game. He apparently played this season with lingering effects from the nerve damage and his shoulder was never 100% recovered. That might make up for a bit of strength. Plus he's now under one of the better strength and conditioning programs in the NFL so it can only get better.

Brown Leader
02-09-2011, 05:52 PM
I put this on the pro football board to get a larger response...
http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45712

kalbears13
02-09-2011, 07:16 PM
I think he's a solid starting QB but he's not going to win games by himself. Does that make him a franchise QB? depends on your definition. He certainly will be put in the best system for his style under Shurmur.

OhioJB
02-12-2011, 07:14 AM
Obviously the jury's out on Colt, but I voted yes on this because he showed enough in his first 3 starts to give me the impression he will do well in the future. However, if I were judging by the games he played in after coming back from the injury, I'd be lukewarm on him as our starting QB. And what worries me a little is whether the colder weather bothered him enough that it affected his play. Stats may or may not support what I'm saying, but I thought Colt didn't look as sharp towards the end of the season. Just the impression I had.

On the positive side, what Homgren said in his early November press conference was spot on, when he said what he learned from Colt's first starts is that the games weren't too big for him. Mentally Colt gets it and is determined and has enough fire in his belly to get better to become a great QB. We'll see if his talent level bears that out, and if they can continue to improve the O-line, as well as keep Joe Thomas when his contract expires.

Time will tell.

Jeff

Tom Servo
02-12-2011, 09:37 AM
I have no doubt Colt's gonna be the man. Dude's a gamer. If he was 2" taller everybody would slurp him as the next big thing. Just gotta get him a RT and a #1 wr and this offense will be really tough to stop

OhioJB
02-12-2011, 10:20 AM
Another thing that would help, is drafting Mark Ingram believe it or not. Would take alot of pressure off Colt having a backfield of Vickers blocking for Hillis and Ingram, with Hardesty as the backup. Hillis can't continue carrying the ball as many times as he did last season. Hardesty having had injuries to both knees makes me worry about his future in regards to dependability in staying healthy. I believe Ingram will be a great NFL RB. May not be as fast as some, but he'll gain alot of yards behind a good NFL line, that'll hopefully continue being improved.

I may be wrong about WR A.J. Green, but if I am he wont be available at #6. And Julio Jones doesn't have high first round talent from what I've seen.

Iamcanadian
02-26-2011, 02:29 AM
Colt was a risk with our pick. He only slide out of late round 1 because of the nerve damage he suffered his senior year at Texas. He has a real shot at being a real solid QB as he appears to be fully healthy from his injury.
In Holmgren's style offense, Colt can have a career similar to Hasselbeck's at Seattle, is that good enough, I don't know, but it is going to be awhile before they think of replacing him and he is going to need weapons around him to have any real success.

Iamcanadian
02-26-2011, 02:32 AM
Another thing that would help, is drafting Mark Ingram believe it or not. Would take alot of pressure off Colt having a backfield of Vickers blocking for Hillis and Ingram, with Hardesty as the backup. Hillis can't continue carrying the ball as many times as he did last season. Hardesty having had injuries to both knees makes me worry about his future in regards to dependability in staying healthy. I believe Ingram will be a great NFL RB. May not be as fast as some, but he'll gain alot of yards behind a good NFL line, that'll hopefully continue being improved.

I may be wrong about WR A.J. Green, but if I am he wont be available at #6. And Julio Jones doesn't have high first round talent from what I've seen.

I think there is a real shot that Green may be available at #6. The top end of this draft is superb and when a draft is this strong, WR's tend to slide. After all, without a franchise QB, they cannot be stars no matter how talented they are.

Brown Leader
04-05-2011, 01:18 AM
Just something I came across from July 2009. Almost spot on-sort of interesting.

http://static.thedirty.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/sam-colt.jpg
THE DIRTY ARMY: I love the articles that say Colt told the NFL to wait one more year for him so he could go back to Texas and try to win a BCS Title. That’s funny he hasn’t even won a Big 12 Title yes. And he’ll never be a starting NFL QB. Make the NFL wait? he’d be lucky to go round 3. He has a weak arm, he can’t make all the throws. He’s too short. College success does not equal NFL success. I’ll bet a year’s income (33K) that Bradford goes ahead of Colt, and Bradford, goes on to start in the NFL and be success. Colt can only hope to hold a clip board.

Iamcanadian
04-05-2011, 10:16 AM
Colt suits a WCO which Holmgren wants in Cleveland. His arm strength isn't top end but in a WCO, accuracy is more important than arm strength, and McCoy is very accurate.
There is little doubt that McCoy fell on draft day because of injury concerns. As long as they don't raise their ugly head, he should do fine in our WCO.
I think he will be very successful on our team but he wouldn't suit every offense.

Brown Leader
06-16-2011, 07:51 AM
Can Colt McCoy handle Cleveland weather?
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/28206/can-colt-mccoy-handle-cleveland-weather

I'm still thinking now that it will be his feet rather than his arm strength that determines how successful he can be.

LonghornsLegend
06-16-2011, 09:15 AM
Can Colt McCoy handle Cleveland weather?
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/28206/can-colt-mccoy-handle-cleveland-weather

I'm still thinking now that it will be his feet rather than his arm strength that determines how successful he can be.

That article seemed kinda subjective to me. They are trying to put all the evidence of those bad games into the weather, and are completely discounting how good the Ravens and Steelers defense is. Especially for any rookie QB playing those two teams back to back.


I doubt had he played those two teams in a dome he'd have lit them up through the air. The Jets scored 9 points vs the same Ravens, and weather wasn't a factor at all for Mark Sanchez who isn't a rookie. Now the question is a fair one to ask, but I don't think you can try and correlate those two games on simply bad weather.


Even if it's cold, snowy, and windy, even the big armed QB's have to pick and choose their spots. I remember the 'tuck rule' game, and I can remember very little deep throws from either QB. Brady chipped away down the field all game with short, quick routes. That's what they are gonna expect Colt to do, it's not a big downfield, vertical offense.


He does need the arm strength to push the ball into tight windows though, accuracy is part of that equation too though.

Brown Leader
08-17-2011, 02:13 PM
There has been some serious band wagon jumping out of the media after Colt's pre season debut. I'm trying to think of the last unproven QB to have a sterling pre season and if it translated to the regular season-I'm coming up nada.

keylime_5
08-17-2011, 10:41 PM
well you'd have to look at all the recent QBs and how they looked in the preseason before their breakout years. I'm sure there are some.

The key to McCoy will be if he's able to stretch the defense with throws downfield like he did a few times against the Packers. This offense requires a lot of short throws, but the ability to put some zip on those intermediate to downfield throws will determine if he's good enough to keep safeties out of the box and make big plays through the air consistently.

V.I.P
08-17-2011, 10:44 PM
Favre is showing him the ropes, i vote yes!

Brown Leader
08-19-2011, 01:09 AM
Only QB that comes to mind that had a strong pre season and was unproven was when Tony Romo emerged. I remember Bill had him play an entire game. He looked impressive then eventually earned the starting spot some time during in the season and looked just as impressive.

I imagine there's more on the flipside-I just can't think of any.

keylime_5
08-19-2011, 09:35 PM
I remember very well in 2004 the Chargers drafted Philip Rivers b/c Drew Brees looked really lousy the season before as the starter, and in the 2004 preseason Drew Brees dominated and hasn't looked back since after enjoying a breakout season that year.

Brown Leader
08-31-2011, 10:57 PM
Been collecting this for a minute-thought I'd dump it all here. Recent QBs coming in as unproven starters and how they did preseason vs reg season. Fwiw.


-------------------Comp - Att - Pct - Yds - TD - Int - Rate - Team W-L

Romo
pre 2006-----------64 - 92 - 69.6 --- 833 --- 3 - 3 - 95.1

regular----------220 - 337 - 65.3 - 2,903 - 19 - 13 - 95.1 - 6 - 4 playoffs


Leinart
pre 2007----------24 - 40 - 60.0 - 329 - 2 - 0 - 103.0

reg --------------60 - 112 - 53.6 - 647 - 2 - 4 - 61.9 - 1 - 2 pulled week 6 #Warner


Rivers
pre 2006-----------30 - 46 - 65.2 ---- 333 -- 1 - 1 - 84.8

reg---------------284 - 460 - 61.7 - 3,388 - 22 - 9 - 92.0 - 14 -2 playoffs


Ryan
pre 2008-----------34 - 59 - 57.6 --- 294 --- 2 - 1 - 75.1

reg---------------265 - 434 - 61.1 - 3,440 - 16 - 11 - 87.7 - 11 - 5 playoffs


Flacco
pre 2008-----------35 - 67 - 52.2 -- 284 --- 1 - 0 - 68.3

reg---------------257 - 428 - 60.0 - 2,971 - 14 - 12 - 80.3 - 11 - 5 playoffs


Rodgers
pre 2008-----------37 - 54 - 68.5 --- 436 --- 3 - 1 - 103.6

reg---------------341 - 536 - 63.6 - 4,038 - 28 - 13 - 93.8 - 6 - 10


Schaub
pre 2007-----------24 - 33 - 72.7 --- 242 --- 2 - 0 - 113.4

reg---------------192 - 289 - 66.4 - 2,241 - 9 - 9 - 87.2 - 4 - 7


Garrard
pre 2007-----------36 - 47 - 76.6 --- 456 -- 1 - 0 - 113.4

reg---------------208 - 325 - 64.0 - 2,509 - 18 - 3 - 102.2 - 9 - 3 playoffs


Henne
pre 2010-----------32 - 58 - 55.2 --- 346 -- 2 - 1 - 77.2

reg---------------301 - 490 - 61.4 - 3,301 - 15 - 19 - 75.4 - 6 - 8


Sanchez
pre 2010-----------31 - 48 - 64.6 --- 270 -- 2 - 2 - 75.9

reg---------------278 - 507 - 54.8 - 3,291 - 17 - 13 - 75.3 - 11 - 5 playoffs


Kolb
pre 2010-----------28 - 53 - 52.8 --- 324 -- 0 - 1 - 63.7

reg---------------115 - 189 - 60.8 - 1,197 - 7 - 7 - 76.1 - 2 - 4


A.Smith
pre 2006-----------32 - 51 - 62.7 --- 322 -- 1 - 3 - 62.7

reg---------------257 - 442 - 58.1 - 2,890 - 16 - 16 - 74.8 - 7 - 9

McCoy
pre 2011-----------28 - 46 - 60.9 -- 320 - 4 - 1 - 101.7

reg---------------

Iamcanadian
09-12-2011, 10:23 AM
Well, McCoy looked weak against Cincy. WCO QB's must be accurate but arm can be very average. He wasn't accurate today, maybe it's because we have no WR's, just have to wait and see.
Of course, we could have had Sanchez throwing to Jones and a very respectable offense, but that's spilled milk.

keylime_5
09-12-2011, 10:53 AM
He looked outstanding from the 2nd quarter until the first drive of the third quarter. He wasn't bad in the 1st quarter, but penalties killed our drives. He didnt' play well the rest of the second half, and Cincy's pressure got to him.

Forget Jones, he didn't do that good yesterday and Phil Taylor was beasting it. Not to mention we have Little and Marecic and another 1st round pick next year. If we had Sanchez we'd be no closer to a super bowl than we are now. He's a starting QB in the NFL but he's not above average. Besides, who would our center be if we had Sanchez? We'd have Thomas and a bunch of scrubs out there without Mack. Sanchez has had a fantastic OLine in New York and he's still not that great behind it.

Iamcanadian
09-12-2011, 12:49 PM
He looked outstanding from the 2nd quarter until the first drive of the third quarter. He wasn't bad in the 1st quarter, but penalties killed our drives. He didnt' play well the rest of the second half, and Cincy's pressure got to him.

Forget Jones, he didn't do that good yesterday and Phil Taylor was beasting it. Not to mention we have Little and Marecic and another 1st round pick next year. If we had Sanchez we'd be no closer to a super bowl than we are now. He's a starting QB in the NFL but he's not above average. Besides, who would our center be if we had Sanchez? We'd have Thomas and a bunch of scrubs out there without Mack. Sanchez has had a fantastic OLine in New York and he's still not that great behind it.

How many OC's in the NFL came in round 1 and how many OC's taken later turned out to be stars, but oh well, that was Mangini?
H...mmm, we lost to Cincy with Dalton as their starter, so it will be a long, long season.
McCoy completed far less passes against Cincy's defense than a WCO QB should be doing and it only gets worse against Pittsburgh and Baltimore.
He should be showing improvement so I'm worried.

keylime_5
09-12-2011, 02:52 PM
I'd rather have McCoy and Mack than just Sanchez. Sanchez isn't that great. Mack and Mangold are the best pivots in the AFC and both were first round picks by Mangini.

Brown Leader
09-12-2011, 03:42 PM
Colt had some good throws and some bad throws and overall I don't think he played as bad as it seemed but... I really didn't like his decision making. Too often it looked like things were happening too fast for him. One of the surest signatures of a QB lacking competency imo is checking it down for a loss. It happens too them all at one time or another but its still a sign a guy is overwhelmed. I haven't rechecked but it seemed like he hopelessly checked it down at least 3-4 times in that game.

Brown Leader
10-11-2011, 01:55 AM
*crickets*
Sooo I rewatched the Titans game...

So far it's not looking good for our boy. Excuses range from "he's not getting pass protection" to "he doesn't have any WRs to throw to" or "it's only 4 games." "We're 2-2." Coach Shurmur mentioned treating Colt like a rookie, which doesn't really make any sense since clearly he's not. What's worse is Colt endorsing that view and saying something like yeah I'm still a rookie because of the new system and shortened training camp, blah, blah, blah. Anything is possible as far as him turning the corner but at this point-yes, only week 6-it's not looking good.

What I have liked about him so far is that he's being very elusive in the pocket. The problem is though, this is not leading to enough big plays down field or drive extending plays-mostly, it seems to me, because of lack of accuracy (strange) and an unwillingness to force it to the WRs-but also, likely, lack of separation from the rec-but that's hard to tell.

Opening drives of the Titan game, when it was still a game, were not good for Colt.

1st possession its 3rd an 8-he gets good pass protection-forces a 5yd pass to a covered Watson-incomplete-ends drive.

2nd possession-great field position after forcing a deep punt. 3rd down-again good pass protection-throws behind Watson, who is beating Rudd to the corner of the end zone for a sure TD-incomplete-FG. (What's worse, the same throw later from Hasselback is perfectly lead to Cook, allowing him not to break stride and go for the TD. ouch.)

3rd possession- McCoy fumbles snap on 2nd an 8-becomes 3rd an 15-can't convert-defender drops an int.

4th possession- Colt doesn't recognize the blitz pre snap on 2nd down-blitzer kills play-3rd down late hitting Cribbs over the middle-shortening room for yac-tackled short of marker.

21-6 Titans.

Brown Leader
11-09-2011, 05:11 PM
Gained some new found admiration for Colt watching him week 9 against the Texans. He may not be a capable starting QB but there aren't many guys that could elude every drop back and take hits in the pocket like he did on Sunday.

keylime_5
11-09-2011, 10:16 PM
yeah, they wanted to use this year to find out if he was capable of being a starting QB, but with how bad the O-Line, WRs, and the rest of the offense around him has been combined with the predictable, stoneage playcalling, they haven't given him much of a chance so we don't really know if he can play or not. They won't give him the benefit of the doubt though this offseason b/c of his lack of physical tools combined with his poor performance this year no matter how fair of a chance he was given. The team has to move it can't sit on its hands regarding our QB situation.

fear the elf
11-10-2011, 08:42 AM
If we sell the farm to get Luck, do you think he plays significantly better considering we'd still have the same lack of talent around him? (I'm assuming we'd have to give up almost all of our picks this year to move up to #1)

Or do you think we'd be better served by drafting whatever QB falls to our first pick and then drafting OL/WR/RB?

Iamcanadian
11-10-2011, 12:03 PM
If we sell the farm to get Luck, do you think he plays significantly better considering we'd still have the same lack of talent around him? (I'm assuming we'd have to give up almost all of our picks this year to move up to #1)

Or do you think we'd be better served by drafting whatever QB falls to our first pick and then drafting OL/WR/RB?

We won't be getting Luck, he would cost a king's ransom to obtain and you would have to have another top 5 pick to even have a shot.
With the colleges throwing the ball as much as they do today, likely, I hope, a QB will be available when we exercise our 1st round pick.
It is far easier to rebuild a team once your franchise QB is in place than to try and do it the other way around.

keylime_5
11-10-2011, 12:14 PM
If we got Luck (long longshot) then he might not play that much better but the fact is - like Canadian said - once you have your franchise QB in place a good chunk of the battle is done in rebuilding a team and the rest is a lot easier.

Brown Leader
12-07-2011, 12:16 AM
Since I'm always dumping on him, how about a happy stat...

Colt McCoy has 470 QB dropbacks this year (i.e. non-handoffs), third-most in the league behind Drew Brees and Matthew Stafford. Despite this, heís only been responsible for 10 total turnovers (fumble + INTs); only Tim Tebow and Aaron Rodgers have taken better care of the ball on a per-dropback basis.

...course it won't stop us from taking a QB with the first pick.

keylime_5
12-07-2011, 12:40 AM
he doesn't throw a lot of picks. he doesn't throw a lot of touchdowns or for a high ypa either. I think one reason for this is that he doesn't fire the ball into tight spaces which is where top QBs make their money. If he tried to do this more often he would have more picks b/c he doesn't have a great arm. I like Colt, he's a solid QB, but his size and strength are going to forever limit his potential - especially on the Browns where talent is always hard to come by.

j05son
12-13-2011, 03:10 AM
On the question of Luck playing better his first season;

Do you believe Colt or Shurmur is at fault. Either we're running this tight offense because of a lack of arm strength on Colt to move the ball thus limiting what we do or it's on Shurmur for calling so many tight plays and not some more goes or 20+ yard plays.

Brown Leader
12-13-2011, 03:33 PM
That stat they put up during the Steelers game, that something like 75% of all our throws are 10yd or less, was mind boggling. I'd like to say it's because of Colt's arm but Bradford had a pretty low ypa last season as well. Its hard to believe Shurmur spent 9 seasons learning with Any Reid and McNabb.

Iamcanadian
12-14-2011, 03:45 PM
I suspect they may be protecting the mental aspect for McCoy. If they believe he will breakout next year, why expose him to total embarrassment this season. Let him learn gradually.

The other answer is worse, they already have reached the conclusion that McCoy just doesn't have it and are running a conservative offense because that is all he is capable of.

They may also feel that their defense is good enough to keep a game close and if they open up the offense, all you are going to see is a lot more interceptions and turnovers and what purpose would that serve.

Iamcanadian
12-14-2011, 03:51 PM
Right now I don't want anymore wins, higher draft picks should be our goal.
If McCoy isn't the answer then RG111 or Barkley must be a Brown next year and the higher we draft, the more likely this is to happen.
I don't want to think about failure to secure either.

Brown Leader
12-14-2011, 04:43 PM
I think I like the 2013 QB prospects more than 2012 guys. I'd take Brock Osweiler, Tyler Wilson or Logan Thomas over Barkley, RG3 or Tannehill. Could be a tough evaluation for the scouting group this year on the QBs.

Barkley's very similar to Andy Dalton but Dalton was a 2nd round pick. RG3 could be gold or he could just as easily stay as an unrefined athlete. Tannehill has the skillset physically but he's also terribly robotic. Jones has the arm but no legs. Strengths/weaknesses goes for any class but I think I still prefer next years. :(

LonghornsLegend
12-14-2011, 08:11 PM
I think I like the 2013 QB prospects more than 2012 guys. I'd take Brock Osweiler, Tyler Wilson or Logan Thomas over Barkley, RG3 or Tannehill. Could be a tough evaluation for the scouting group this year on the QBs.

Barkley's very similar to Andy Dalton but Dalton was a 2nd round pick. RG3 could be gold or he could just as easily stay as an unrefined athlete. Tannehill has the skillset physically but he's also terribly robotic. Jones has the arm but no legs. Strengths/weaknesses goes for any class but I think I still prefer next years. :(



Of course, everyone always does. The year after "this year" is always better, until every one of those guys you've listed gets broken down the way this years class has and it's not as good as anyone thought early on. It usually ends up evening up once that class ends up declaring.

Brown Leader
12-14-2011, 11:52 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean but I liked most of the 2011 guys more than this year's also. I recognize how much a crap shoot it is (really didn't like Dalton too much last year) but I'm still not enthused with any of these guys right now after Luck.

Iamcanadian
12-16-2011, 02:05 PM
I think I like the 2013 QB prospects more than 2012 guys. I'd take Brock Osweiler, Tyler Wilson or Logan Thomas over Barkley, RG3 or Tannehill. Could be a tough evaluation for the scouting group this year on the QBs.

Barkley's very similar to Andy Dalton but Dalton was a 2nd round pick. RG3 could be gold or he could just as easily stay as an unrefined athlete. Tannehill has the skillset physically but he's also terribly robotic. Jones has the arm but no legs. Strengths/weaknesses goes for any class but I think I still prefer next years. :(

I couldn't disagree more. This year's crop is one of the finest I've seen in many years. 3 solid franchise types who in many draft years, would have all been the #1 overall pick, and at least 3 stragglers with some real upside and possible 1st round talent.
Next years crop looks like crap to me, I won't be at all shocked if none of them are 1st rounders.
It is this draft or we could be waiting for years to find a real franchise type.

keylime_5
12-17-2011, 06:18 PM
This time next year people are gonna look back on the 2012 QB class and be left wanting for more from the 2013 guys. They have Barkley (if he doesn't declare this year) and Tyler Wilson (Bobby Petrino's offense inflates numbers greatly), and a bunch of guys on the level with Nick Foles and Ryan Tannehill as prospects probably. Granted we could have someone come out of nowhere like Cam Newton did, but right now it's not looking like we're gonna get better than Luck/Griffin/Jones/Tannehill/Foles and maybe Barkley that we're getting this year. Luck alone makes this year's QB class better than what we've had in recent history. If Barkley declares this year then it will be (IMO) the best QB class since the famed 2004 class of Eli/Rivers/Roethlisberger.

Brown Leader
12-20-2011, 07:01 PM
Ugh, I completely disagree with you two. If Osweiler, Wilson and Thomas improve next season as much as they did this past season, all three will be lock top ten picks.

However, I did look at some more USC games and Barkley is reminding me quite a bit of Drew Brees. Anyone else see that?

kalbears13
12-20-2011, 08:09 PM
Ugh, I completely disagree with you two. If Osweiler, Wilson and Thomas improve next season as much as they did this past season, all three will be lock top ten picks.

However, I did look at some more USC games and Barkley is reminding me quite a bit of Drew Brees. Anyone else see that?

That is the best comparison I've ever heard.

keylime_5
12-20-2011, 08:28 PM
The thing with Brees is that every single short and/or weak armed QB gets compared to him and people will realize that he is one of the lone exceptions to the rule of what physical traits a QB almost absolutely MUST have to succeed in the NFL. Barkley is a little bigger than Brees and has a better arm coming out of USC and a quicker release (which is saying something). The thing that seperates Brees from almost every other QB in the league is his ability to read and pick apart weaknesses in defenses and place the ball perfectly. Barkley's athleticism isn't quite as good as Brees' and his ball placement won't be anything like Brees' unless he develops the same kind of work ethic to perfect the parts of his game that he has the power to correct. That said, he is a little bit like Brees.

Barkley actually looks more like a smaller Matt Schaub or a less athletic Mark Sanchez with a little better of an arm and way more experience. As negative comparisons he unfortunately has a little bit of Brady Quinn and Jimmy Clausen in him, though I'm sure he will be a lot better than either of those two and probably already is.

Anyways, that is my rambling rant on Barkley. I think he has a pretty high ceiling for success. He'll at the very least be Sanchez or Schaub. His upside is limited though b/c of his athleticism, size, and strength. He could be a top 10 QB in the game though still, and I'll take that.

Iamcanadian
12-27-2011, 01:57 AM
The thing with Brees is that every single short and/or weak armed QB gets compared to him and people will realize that he is one of the lone exceptions to the rule of what physical traits a QB almost absolutely MUST have to succeed in the NFL. Barkley is a little bigger than Brees and has a better arm coming out of USC and a quicker release (which is saying something). The thing that seperates Brees from almost every other QB in the league is his ability to read and pick apart weaknesses in defenses and place the ball perfectly. Barkley's athleticism isn't quite as good as Brees' and his ball placement won't be anything like Brees' unless he develops the same kind of work ethic to perfect the parts of his game that he has the power to correct. That said, he is a little bit like Brees.

Barkley actually looks more like a smaller Matt Schaub or a less athletic Mark Sanchez with a little better of an arm and way more experience. As negative comparisons he unfortunately has a little bit of Brady Quinn and Jimmy Clausen in him, though I'm sure he will be a lot better than either of those two and probably already is.

Anyways, that is my rambling rant on Barkley. I think he has a pretty high ceiling for success. He'll at the very least be Sanchez or Schaub. His upside is limited though b/c of his athleticism, size, and strength. He could be a top 10 QB in the game though still, and I'll take that.

Well put and now that he has returned to school, I'd add maturity as an issue. Just how much is this guy going to put into being the best? Brees, Brady, Peyton and Rodgers live and breath football and I just don't get that feeling about Barkley after his decision to return for his senior year.

kalbears13
12-27-2011, 02:04 AM
Well put and now that he has returned to school, I'd add maturity as an issue. Just how much is this guy going to put into being the best? Brees, Brady, Peyton and Rodgers live and breath football and I just don't get that feeling about Barkley after his decision to return for his senior year.

Wow... 3 of the 4 guys you mentioned returned for their senior year. Would you say Sanchez is mature because he declared after his junior year?

Besides that, I can guarantee you Matt Barkley is not immature and he wants to be the best. That's the reason why he came back his senior year to be the #1 team in college football. He obviously didn't stay at USC because of the money and he didn't do it because it's Southern California blah blah blah. He did it because he wanted to win the national championship.

keylime_5
12-27-2011, 12:33 PM
yeah, you could use both sides of the coin on that one. Usually it seems the more immature players leave early and are thinking about money instead of about their legacy or their college degree. Cannot blame Barkley at all for the decision he made, it was very logical if you look at these factors:

-He can win a Heisman next year
-He can win a National and Pac 12 Title next year
-He can go down as an all-time great college QB
-He finishes his degree
-He can be the #1 pick in the 2013 draft (had no shot with Luck being there this year)
-NFL QBs who enter the draft early have a FAR worse success rate than ones who stay for four years.
-He probably won't get drafted by the Browns if he stays

kalbears13
12-27-2011, 02:28 PM
yeah, you could use both sides of the coin on that one. Usually it seems the more immature players leave early and are thinking about money instead of about their legacy or their college degree. Cannot blame Barkley at all for the decision he made, it was very logical if you look at these factors:

-He can win a Heisman next year
-He can win a National and Pac 12 Title next year
-He can go down as an all-time great college QB
-He finishes his degree
-He can be the #1 pick in the 2013 draft (had no shot with Luck being there this year)
-NFL QBs who enter the draft early have a FAR worse success rate than ones who stay for four years.
-He probably won't get drafted by the Browns if he stays

I lol'd at the last one.

j05son
12-28-2011, 12:19 AM
Well put and now that he has returned to school, I'd add maturity as an issue. Just how much is this guy going to put into being the best? Brees, Brady, Peyton and Rodgers live and breath football and I just don't get that feeling about Barkley after his decision to return for his senior year.

was this a serious post? 75% of that list returned to school. do you have any idea of what you're talking about?

Iamcanadian
12-29-2011, 11:56 AM
yeah, you could use both sides of the coin on that one. Usually it seems the more immature players leave early and are thinking about money instead of about their legacy or their college degree. Cannot blame Barkley at all for the decision he made, it was very logical if you look at these factors:

-He can win a Heisman next year
-He can win a National and Pac 12 Title next year
-He can go down as an all-time great college QB
-He finishes his degree
-He can be the #1 pick in the 2013 draft (had no shot with Luck being there this year)
-NFL QBs who enter the draft early have a FAR worse success rate than ones who stay for four years.
-He probably won't get drafted by the Browns if he stays

You left out a few:

-He can suffer a very serious injury and never play in the NFL.
-He loses a year of pro training by staying in college.
-If I'm training to be a CEO of a company and General Motors offers me the job, do I turn it down to stay in school so I can win some award and further my education.
-He has trained his whole life to be a professional football player, now he is telling the pros to wait so he can possibly win a Heisman, or win the Pac 12, or win the National Championship and you think pro GM's aren't going to question his maturity and his commitment to football.
-If the junior who declares has real talent, they go on to succeed at a high level, ask Stafford or Newton.
-For me, he is a perfect example a la Leinart, a kid from a well off family, who wants to stay in college because it is a lot of fun( I know I loved it). He's no Luck, who graduated as a sophomore and stayed for his junior year but has enough commitment to football to come out as a junior.

I'll be shocked if he makes it into the top 5 next year. Look at the QB's who returned to school, turning down solid chances to be high picks i the draft.

1) Leinart - turned out partying was far more important that putting a 100% into learning your profession
2) Locker - dropped considerably in the draft
3) Bradford - got injured but was lucky enough to go #1, now they are questioning his ability to stay healthy, questioning his commitment to pro football and wondering if he is committed enough to be a great QB.

I'll tell you this, the better NFL GM's will pass on Barkley next year,, sure, he may go #1 because there are plenty of bad GM's in the business but I really question whether this guy will be a true franchise QB before all is said and done.

Iamcanadian
12-29-2011, 12:06 PM
was this a serious post? 75% of that list returned to school. do you have any idea of what you're talking about?

Get your facts straight, up until about 3 years ago, 95% of college pro type QB's returned to school to finished their senior years. That was the known acceptable route to take to be a successful NFL QB.
Today, it is a whole different story. We take notice today when a QB returns to school for their senior year because junior QB's are having success in the pros, see Stafford or Newton.

j05son
12-30-2011, 01:52 AM
Get your facts straight, up until about 3 years ago, 95% of college pro type QB's returned to school to finished their senior years. That was the known acceptable route to take to be a successful NFL QB.
Today, it is a whole different story. We take notice today when a QB returns to school for their senior year because junior QB's are having success in the pros, see Stafford or Newton.

Damage control.

Get your facts straight - you said something asinine. It was even your list. I went off of what you said. You realize this right?

initial_flo
01-03-2012, 08:02 PM
Scrub (filler)

Brown Leader
02-02-2012, 11:20 PM
Been collecting this for a minute-thought I'd dump it all here. Recent QBs coming in as unproven starters and how they did preseason vs reg season. Fwiw.


-------------------Comp - Att - Pct - Yds - TD - Int - Rate - Team W-L

Romo
pre 2006-----------64 - 92 - 69.6 --- 833 --- 3 - 3 - 95.1

regular----------220 - 337 - 65.3 - 2,903 - 19 - 13 - 95.1 - 6 - 4 playoffs


Leinart
pre 2007----------24 - 40 - 60.0 - 329 - 2 - 0 - 103.0

reg --------------60 - 112 - 53.6 - 647 - 2 - 4 - 61.9 - 1 - 2 pulled week 6 #Warner


Rivers
pre 2006-----------30 - 46 - 65.2 ---- 333 -- 1 - 1 - 84.8

reg---------------284 - 460 - 61.7 - 3,388 - 22 - 9 - 92.0 - 14 -2 playoffs


Ryan
pre 2008-----------34 - 59 - 57.6 --- 294 --- 2 - 1 - 75.1

reg---------------265 - 434 - 61.1 - 3,440 - 16 - 11 - 87.7 - 11 - 5 playoffs


Flacco
pre 2008-----------35 - 67 - 52.2 -- 284 --- 1 - 0 - 68.3

reg---------------257 - 428 - 60.0 - 2,971 - 14 - 12 - 80.3 - 11 - 5 playoffs


Rodgers
pre 2008-----------37 - 54 - 68.5 --- 436 --- 3 - 1 - 103.6

reg---------------341 - 536 - 63.6 - 4,038 - 28 - 13 - 93.8 - 6 - 10


Schaub
pre 2007-----------24 - 33 - 72.7 --- 242 --- 2 - 0 - 113.4

reg---------------192 - 289 - 66.4 - 2,241 - 9 - 9 - 87.2 - 4 - 7


Garrard
pre 2007-----------36 - 47 - 76.6 --- 456 -- 1 - 0 - 113.4

reg---------------208 - 325 - 64.0 - 2,509 - 18 - 3 - 102.2 - 9 - 3 playoffs


Henne
pre 2010-----------32 - 58 - 55.2 --- 346 -- 2 - 1 - 77.2

reg---------------301 - 490 - 61.4 - 3,301 - 15 - 19 - 75.4 - 6 - 8


Sanchez
pre 2010-----------31 - 48 - 64.6 --- 270 -- 2 - 2 - 75.9

reg---------------278 - 507 - 54.8 - 3,291 - 17 - 13 - 75.3 - 11 - 5 playoffs


Kolb
pre 2010-----------28 - 53 - 52.8 --- 324 -- 0 - 1 - 63.7

reg---------------115 - 189 - 60.8 - 1,197 - 7 - 7 - 76.1 - 2 - 4


A.Smith
pre 2006-----------32 - 51 - 62.7 --- 322 -- 1 - 3 - 62.7

reg---------------257 - 442 - 58.1 - 2,890 - 16 - 16 - 74.8 - 7 - 9

McCoy
pre 2011-----------28 - 46 - 60.9 -- 320 - 4 - 1 - 101.7

reg---------------

McCoy
pre 2011-----------28 - 46 - 60.9 -- 320 - 4 -- 1 -- 101.7

reg---------------265 - 463 - 57.2 - 2733 - 14 - 11 - 74.6



Very Leinart like. ...actually the worst of this bunch considering Leinart got benched.

fear the elf
02-03-2012, 11:50 AM
McCoy
pre 2011-----------28 - 46 - 60.9 -- 320 - 4 -- 1 -- 101.7

reg---------------265 - 463 - 57.2 - 2733 - 14 - 11 - 74.6



Very Leinart like. ...actually the worst of this bunch considering Leinart got benched.

I'm not trying to make the case that McCoy is a great QB or can become a great QB, but I think it's at least debatable that his stats are the worst of the group.

Consider supporting cast and tell me that he wasn't at least on par with Sanchez, Henne, Kolb, and A. Smith.

Now, I agree, their progression from preseason to regular season follows a different trajectory (they stay more consistent, while McCoy took a big step down).

kjb7140
02-06-2012, 07:52 PM
Let him compete with a veteran and a rookie prospect(preferably GriffinIII). Send Seneca packing and pick up Mcnab or Hassleback.Due to lack of talent and the lockout, I feel he deserves another chance.

keylime_5
02-07-2012, 11:51 PM
I think they should bring in Flynn or Griffin III - and if they do then either one of those guys would be the unquestioned starter and future of the QB position for the Browns due to financial obligations that come with signing them. Now if we get a guy like Tannehill or Weeden in round 2 or whatever then I'd keep Colt around and have a competition. I think it's Flynn, Griffin, or bust this year though as far as addressing the QB position. We need guys who can come in right now that we can commit to .

Brown Leader
02-08-2012, 07:51 PM
Interesting read.

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/cleveland-browns/1-browns-archive/9052-mind-over-matter

One of my goals for the offseason was to study the tapes closely and try to figure out why 2nd year QB Colt McCoy struggled with his accuracy. I wanted to find a glaring flaw with his mechanics or maybe some type of other smoking gun that would explain why a QB who played in a tough conference in college and still managed to complete 77% of his passes during his junior year and 71% his senior year canít reach the 60% mark in the pros.

fear the elf
02-10-2012, 09:58 AM
Interesting read.

Hmm...I'm not sure if I'd rather it be a mechanics issue. I don't know how easily you can repair confidence. Some guys never get it back once their broken; I think that's exactly what happens to most highly drafted QBs that don't work out...