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Giantsfan1080
12-28-2011, 11:29 AM
wait are we rumored to be offering him the future HC job?

Yeah that's what Sal Pal said yesterday. Honestly at this point though none of these reporters have any inside information. The Giants don't leak stuff ever and they especially wouldn't leak anything while still having a DC in place heading into what is essentially a playoff game. We'll know more as the season ends and I'm not going to go from emotion to emotion based on the direction the Spags wind is blowing that day. There have already been way to many conflicting reports which leads me to believe no one has a clue.

bigbluedefense
12-28-2011, 01:28 PM
So apparently, the 2 times we went with a simplified defense were vs the Pats and vs the Jets.

The result? Great defense.


My head hurts. If Spags doesn't come back and bring his common sense with him, I'm jumping off the bridge guys.

I choose GWB. Just giving you guys a heads up.

Jughead10
12-28-2011, 01:31 PM
Maybe we could all have our own bridge and synchronize it. Make more of an impact.

Giantsfan1080
12-28-2011, 01:50 PM
Or we could just all hold hands on the way down.

Jughead10
12-28-2011, 02:09 PM
Or we could just all hold hands on the way down.

Then they'll think we're some sort of *** cult.

bigbluedefense
12-28-2011, 03:05 PM
Giants Team Forum cult?

scottyboy
12-28-2011, 03:37 PM
yeah, i'd be down for either or. team cult or synchronized jumping would be pretty gnarly.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-29-2011, 06:37 AM
If we are going to synchronize it I need to know a little early, bc the nearest bridge with good suicide conditions is over an hours drive away.

bigbluedefense
12-29-2011, 07:41 AM
Speaking of which, did anyone catch the Giants/Patriots Super Bowl special on ESPN on Christmas?

I wish I DVR'd it. It was great, had a lot of player interviews, and they had a session where Spags and McDaniels both were on the whiteboard breaking down plays and what each of their units did on each particular play.

It was a great special, and after watching the special it really made you miss Spags even more bc of how brilliant he was.

Just to throw some gas on the fire lol.

bigbluedefense
12-29-2011, 07:50 AM
What I also took from that special was that the Patriot players had a ton of respect for the Giants organization and the players. You gotta respect those guys, they didn't make excuses, they gave credit where it was due, and they were man enough to admit they got beat.

It's why I respect that team so much. They have a special group of leaders on that team and it's a testament to Bill Bellichick.

Giantsfan1080
12-29-2011, 07:51 AM
I wish I knew about it!!! It sounds awesome so I'll have to hope they repeat it again. Was it called anything special?

bigbluedefense
12-29-2011, 08:15 AM
I wish I knew about it!!! It sounds awesome so I'll have to hope they repeat it again. Was it called anything special?

I don't remember. I caught it like 10 minutes into it. It was such a great special, they interviewed a bunch of players from both sides, notably Brady, Harrison, Bruschi, and Light from the Patriots. And what stood out to me was how they gave so much respect and credit to the Giants. They just get it. That's a team that gets it. I have so much respect for them.

The best part was the white board with Spags and McDaniels. They talked about a lot of things that go unnoticed in that game that I noticed myself. Like the first play of the game when Brady almost gets sacked on a designed screen pass. If he was able to get the pass off it's a touchdown.

The Kawika Mitchell sack, how that was a changeup that Spags cooked up the Thursday before the game. It was a great session.

I also came away from that whiteboard impressed with McDaniels. Have a newfound respect for him too.

bigbluedefense
12-29-2011, 08:23 AM
Spags disguised a CB blitz beautifully on a failed 4th down attempt. He had Michael Johnson lined up at WILL LB, Ross at CB, and Wilson at FS.

During the regular season game btw the 2 teams he blitzed Johnson and Ross from that formation and Wilson picked up the WR.

So the Pats saw that, and was ready for it. They called a sluggo to get Wilson to bite and they'd have an easy touchdown up top on it. So they were excited about the play.

BUT

Spags threw in a wrinkle. It was a disguise. Ross came on the blitz, Wilson jumped underneath and Johnson had to shoot down the field as the deep safety, essentially double teaming the WR on the route. So the WR still saw double coverage, with a blitzer coming from the corner.

So that designed sluggo they cooked up to beat us with got undone by a wrinkle Spags cooked up bc he anticipated them having a change up in their gameplan to that same alignment.

Just 1 example of the many great chess matches btw 2 great coordinators.

Giantsfan1080
12-29-2011, 08:34 AM
That's something we've got away from under Fewell. I don't remember seeing any CB or S blitzes the last 2 years. I'm so sick of this guy.

bigbluedefense
12-29-2011, 08:36 AM
He used to blitz Rolle a lot. But my problem with Fewell is that he seems to have a designated blitzer that he uses every time. That takes away the confusion of the blitz every time you do that. Bc teams just have to identify where that specific guy is lined up and pick him up.

Also his blitzes lack imagination. No stunts, guys look hesitant and don't understand which gap to attack, they're just poorly designed.

Giantsfan1080
12-29-2011, 08:45 AM
And they also are almost always delayed. It makes no sense.

Jughead10
12-29-2011, 08:48 AM
And they also are almost always delayed. It makes no sense.

That's how the Cowboys blitz. The blitz guys that don't even reach the LOS.

Giantsfan1080
12-29-2011, 08:56 AM
That's how the Cowboys blitz. The blitz guys that don't even reach the LOS.

Well that's good for both offenses on Sunday night then. As we start to get closer to the game I'm feeling very uneasy.

We never get there in time also when we blitz the LB's like that. I think it's a read where if the LB has no one to cover he's supposed to go but it just gives the QB more time to find the WR in our crappy zone.

Jughead10
12-29-2011, 09:00 AM
Well that's good for both offenses on Sunday night then. As we start to get closer to the game I'm feeling very uneasy.

We never get there in time also when we blitz the LB's like that. I think it's a read where if the LB has no one to cover he's supposed to go but it just gives the QB more time to find the WR in our crappy zone.

Our LBers just get picked up our run into the line. The Cowboys have guys who just blitz from far out and don't even touch a soul or reach the line.

hockey619
12-29-2011, 09:24 AM
Speaking of which, did anyone catch the Giants/Patriots Super Bowl special on ESPN on Christmas?

I wish I DVR'd it. It was great, had a lot of player interviews, and they had a session where Spags and McDaniels both were on the whiteboard breaking down plays and what each of their units did on each particular play.

It was a great special, and after watching the special it really made you miss Spags even more bc of how brilliant he was.

Just to throw some gas on the fire lol.

damn i cant find anything about this show, i just looked for it for like half an hour haha it sounds so legit though i freaking love that kind of stuff

bigbluedefense
12-29-2011, 10:09 AM
I think it was part of "NFL's Greatest Games" special or something.

Giantsfan1080
12-29-2011, 11:59 AM
Sounds like Ballard and Herzlich are out this Sunday. Osi and Mario are looking like a go while Nicks it the real question mark. We need Nicks on the field even if he's not at 100% just to draw some coverage away from Cruz and Mario.

bigbluedefense
12-29-2011, 02:07 PM
I don't like that Osi is playing. I think that hurts us more than it helps us. And if Nicks and Ballard don't play, we're screwed.

Giantsfan1080
12-29-2011, 02:22 PM
Yeah it really hurts to have a pass rusher like Osi. Let's not be foolish here. The defense hasn't stopped the run all that well with or without Osi.

Big_Pete
12-29-2011, 04:35 PM
There has been a lot of talk about Spags as a potential replacement for Fewell, who are the alternatives? Mike Nolan or Jack Del Rio? How about Winston Moss?


Are there any other alternatives?

bigbluedefense
12-29-2011, 05:20 PM
All Osi is going to do is take away snaps from JPP. JPP is clearly the better player right now, and JPP thrives in the RE spot. Osi only plays RE, he never moves anywhere else, which means we'll move JPP to other parts of the dline where he is far less effective.

So just to accomodate Osi, we're going to move our best pass rusher out of his best natural position for most of the game.

So yeah, it's going to hurt us.

If JPP started and played the entire season at RE, I wouldn't be surprised if he wound up with the most sacks in the league. He was a monster there when Osi didnt play to start the season, and the 3 games he was there while Osi was hurt he was DPOW twice.

He's much much better at RE than anywhere else, and now we're going to move him so whiny Osi can play.

I don't like it. This will probably be Osi's last game as a Giant anyway, unless we win and make the playoffs.

Thanks for the memories Osi. We love ya, but moving on is best for both sides. Hook us up with a 2nd round pick that we can use to move up in the 1st with and draft Keuchly with.

Giantsfan1080
12-29-2011, 05:27 PM
Osi has already come out and said JPP should start and even Fewell isn't dumb enough to take JPP off the field in the most important game of the year. Osi is going to snaps away from Tollefson not JPP. Also, Osi has moved around all over the line this year just like last year and just like his whole career. He doesn't only play RDE. Let's not forget Osi's production in the passing game this year with 7 sacks in only 8 games played. Yes he a liability in the run game now but we're probably going to use mostly in passing situations in this game. I know everyone is still not happy with the **** he pulled but let's no pretend a great pass rusher is actually a liability. It's just not the case one bit.

BaLLiN
12-30-2011, 12:53 AM
Speaking of which, did anyone catch the Giants/Patriots Super Bowl special on ESPN on Christmas?

I wish I DVR'd it. It was great, had a lot of player interviews, and they had a session where Spags and McDaniels both were on the whiteboard breaking down plays and what each of their units did on each particular play.

It was a great special, and after watching the special it really made you miss Spags even more bc of how brilliant he was.

Just to throw some gas on the fire lol.

Just a suggestion, but you should buy the DVD with Strahan's voice (idk if there are any other voices) it is amazing.

I don't like that Osi is playing. I think that hurts us more than it helps us. And if Nicks and Ballard don't play, we're screwed.

Been saying this all season

Yeah it really hurts to have a pass rusher like Osi. Let's not be foolish here. The defense hasn't stopped the run all that well with or without Osi.


It hurts if he overshoots the qb and makes the pocket huge, he really kills us with that. He does have a payoff, but it is such a gamble.

Giantsfan1080
12-30-2011, 07:36 AM
He doesn't overshoot the QB every time. It's just one of the many rushes that he uses. I don't see you guys complaining when he gets his strips sacks and we recover the fumble. Let's not make Osi out to be some mediocre player.

bigbluedefense
12-30-2011, 07:45 AM
He's not a mediocre player. Most teams would love to have him. It's just that we have a better player in JPP and Osi is going to reduce JPP's snaps at RE.

Giantsfan1080
12-30-2011, 08:08 AM
He's not a mediocre player. Most teams would love to have him. It's just that we have a better player in JPP and Osi is going to reduce JPP's snaps at RE.

JPP is going to be on the field enough where the Cowboys will feel his impact. Even when Osi was out they were still moving JPP in to different spots and not just RE. It's not going to limit anything and we're putting another good player on the field. I just don't understand how getting one of your best players on the field can be looked at as a bad thing.

bigbluedefense
12-30-2011, 08:17 AM
JPP is going to be on the field enough where the Cowboys will feel his impact. Even when Osi was out they were still moving JPP in to different spots and not just RE. It's not going to limit anything and we're putting another good player on the field. I just don't understand how getting one of your best players on the field can be looked at as a bad thing.

That's the problem. JPP is significantly better at RE than other spots on the line or when we stand him up. He's much more comfortable at RE and we reduce his effectiveness by taking him out of that spot.

I just don't like how we're going to reduce the effectiveness of our best pass rusher to get Osi on the field.

If anything Osi should move around, not JPP, but that won't happen.

Giantsfan1080
12-30-2011, 08:48 AM
Yes it will and JPP was going to move around regardless of Osi being back or not. He's also significantly better at RDE because that's where he gets his most snaps. Moving him around is good for the team and maybe we can find a mismatch on the Cowboys line.

LonghornsLegend
12-30-2011, 09:05 AM
JPP scares me. He's the reason why teams draft for upside so much, because look at it when it pans out. JPP is destroying people and all you hear is "wait until he figures the game out". Guys like him are worth the risk and bust factor because you can't scheme for him. There isn't much we can do except consistently put 2 on him(which we won't) and even then it makes us a liability elsewhere.



Free is a terrible, terrible matchup against Free. Tyron gets handled too but at least he has the feet and athleticism to buy some extra time, plus he'll be on the left next year so I'd rather he get the reps.


Been fun to see him develop, he should hook up with Strahan in the off-season because I have no doubt he'd want to help him with this technique and get him a few moves. Then again, when your bull rush destroys people what's the point lol.

Giantsfan1080
12-30-2011, 09:13 AM
JPP is an absolute monster and it's scary to think about his upside. I'm so happy that I was sooooooooooooo wrong about that pick.

Giantsfan1080
12-30-2011, 10:20 AM
Jughead, what are your thoughts on the Osi thing?

Jughead10
12-30-2011, 10:29 AM
He should play sparingly. Maybe 20 snaps. And I think he should only play RE when he does play. Move JPP for him. Osi is less versatile. I don't agree that JPP can only get after the QB from RE. If anything I think Osi is more useless anywhere but RE.

Giantsfan1080
12-30-2011, 12:45 PM
Ballard out. Nicks and Manningham probable!!!

bigbluedefense
12-30-2011, 01:38 PM
Not having Ballard is a huge blow. Huge blow.

Giantsfan1080
12-30-2011, 02:16 PM
It definitely is but the 3 WR's are just going to have to step up and their thing.

Defensively don't forget we didn't have Phillips last game so we have that going for us at least.

OSUGiants17
12-31-2011, 05:04 PM
Whats the O-Line supposed to look like this week?

Diehl-Boothe-Baas-Snee-McKenzie? or can we go back to the good line of
Diehl-Petrus-Boothe-Snee-McKenzie???

Giantsfan1080
12-31-2011, 05:12 PM
It's going to be exactly what we saw in the Jets game. Baas sucked in the 1st QR but I actually thought he improved as the game went on and the line settled down and did a decent job the rest of the game.

bigbluedefense
01-01-2012, 11:41 AM
So far, Baas has been a huge disappointment. Hopefully he starts earning that paycheck soon.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-01-2012, 10:27 PM
Nfc East Champs Baby!!!!

HEISMANHERSCHEL
01-01-2012, 11:17 PM
I just wanted to tell you guys congrats. The bottom line is the cowboys don't have an offensive line that is good enough to compete in the playoffs. We didn't deserve to go to the tournament. You guys earned it and we didn't.

I will be rooting for you. I want you to keep the championship in the NFC East. I would love to see you beat the Packers down. I am tired of hearing about them.

Again-congratulations! Make us proud. If we can't win the super bowl, I want to lose out to the guys that do win it.

CDCB14
01-02-2012, 12:10 AM
I just wanted to tell you guys congrats. The bottom line is the cowboys don't have an offensive line that is good enough to compete in the playoffs. We didn't deserve to go to the tournament. You guys earned it and we didn't.

I will be rooting for you. I want you to keep the championship in the NFC East. I would love to see you beat the Packers down. I am tired of hearing about them.

Again-congratulations! Make us proud. If we can't win the super bowl, I want to lose out to the guys that do win it.

I second this. Eli is the truth. In fact, i'm glad he did what he did the past 2 games on us because it shows the front office guys like terence newman need to get the f*ck out lol.

Good win, unlike Jets fan the giants are a classy organization. Good luck in the playoffs.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-02-2012, 10:23 AM
I just wanted to tell you guys congrats. The bottom line is the cowboys don't have an offensive line that is good enough to compete in the playoffs. We didn't deserve to go to the tournament. You guys earned it and we didn't.

I will be rooting for you. I want you to keep the championship in the NFC East. I would love to see you beat the Packers down. I am tired of hearing about them.

Again-congratulations! Make us proud. If we can't win the super bowl, I want to lose out to the guys that do win it.

I second this. Eli is the truth. In fact, i'm glad he did what he did the past 2 games on us because it shows the front office guys like terence newman need to get the f*ck out lol.

Good win, unlike Jets fan the giants are a classy organization. Good luck in the playoffs.

Thank you guys. Classy of you to congratulate us, and I feel the same way about your team. good team with classy players who deserve success way more than for example Philly.

The Cowboys are really not that far away from being a great team. One more year in Rob's defense, and you will be much improved. But you desperately need one or two new corners, and some help on the interior O-line. That's certainly doable this offseason!

bigbluedefense
01-02-2012, 12:38 PM
Thanks guys. That was a tough break for the Cowboys. I hope Romo silenced some critics with his gutsy performance last night. I've always been a Romo fan.

Can't hate Romo, he's a class act and a great person off the field.

bigbluedefense
01-02-2012, 12:40 PM
As for Osi, I have to man up and admit I was wrong. He came up huge. He did 2 things that I never expected him to do:

1. He was willing to come off the bench and be a situational player. Never thought Osi's ego would allow for that.

2. He was willing to move around the dline so JPP can stay at his natural RE position. I never ever thought he'd do that. I was shocked to see him line up at LE.

Bc he was willing to do those 2 things, it was a huge boost for our defense. Hopefully we stick with this formula and use him situationally from now on the same way.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
01-02-2012, 09:48 PM
Thanks guys. That was a tough break for the Cowboys. I hope Romo silenced some critics with his gutsy performance last night. I've always been a Romo fan.

Can't hate Romo, he's a class act and a great person off the field.

I have no complaints about Romo. But just to clarify my position-I don't think this was a tough break for my team. You guys outclassed us from the opening kickoff. You earned it. We didn't lose on a tough break. We got outclassed and outplayed.

You can keep your chin up, sir. You did not win because of a lucky play or two. You beat our buts down all night. It was tough to watch, but we had it coming for a long time.

Now go beat Green Bay! Please!!!!

And Philly sucks. I hate those guys...

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2012, 06:59 AM
As for Osi, I have to man up and admit I was wrong. He came up huge. He did 2 things that I never expected him to do:

1. He was willing to come off the bench and be a situational player. Never thought Osi's ego would allow for that.

2. He was willing to move around the dline so JPP can stay at his natural RE position. I never ever thought he'd do that. I was shocked to see him line up at LE.

Bc he was willing to do those 2 things, it was a huge boost for our defense. Hopefully we stick with this formula and use him situationally from now on the same way.

Way to man up and admit you were wrong. Osi is more of a team player than anyone gives him credit for. Also, he had a pretty good year for someone who didn't play that much.

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2012, 01:03 PM
I still can't get over how good Cruz and JPP have been this year. I don't know which is more shocking to me. I guess Cruz because he was a UDFA but still it's been amazing for both of them.

BaLLiN
01-03-2012, 04:46 PM
I still can't get over how good Cruz and JPP have been this year. I don't know which is more shocking to me. I guess Cruz because he was a UDFA but still it's been amazing for both of them.

dude...same thought exactly. We are really fortunate to see two great young players emerge, as well as Eli really hitting his prime. I feel spoiled.

The play JPP made last week when they ran at him, he was being blocked by two players, yet he spun out of the blocks and made the tackle. At the moment I saw him doing it i thought, oh god this isn't going to end well bc he'll be soo out of position, but he made an amazing play. You can't describe that kind of ability, its beyond freakish.

On the other side, victor cruz is like a miracle every game. You don't have plays like he has, they all seem like flukes, but great things happen when he is involved in a play. He's just magic.

Damix
01-03-2012, 04:57 PM
I'm back, 4 nights was 1 night too many, but I did catch the game on bourbon street, then went to the casino and lost my money after we won.

Oh well, WE STILL WON!!!

NY+Giants=NYG
01-03-2012, 07:53 PM
) The Falcons have played indoors 11 times this season, posting a 3-2 record outdoors. Ryan is 13-10 outside with a passer rating of 82.3. Indoors, he is 30-11 with a rating of 91.4.



Hopefully we will be able to best them sunday.

Jughead10
01-03-2012, 07:55 PM
Something else is going on there. A difference of 9.1 in passer rating does not equal that difference in wins. No way that makes the difference in a 56.5 winning percentage and a 73%.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-03-2012, 08:01 PM
Giants.com did it.

Jughead10
01-03-2012, 08:09 PM
Giants.com did it.

What are Eli's numbers? He doesn't exactly play his best ball at home.

I'm sure the numbers are correct, but there has to be some other factor than Ryan's slightly worse performances causing the drastic difference.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-03-2012, 08:22 PM
What are Eli's numbers? He doesn't exactly play his best ball at home.

I'm sure the numbers are correct, but there has to be some other factor than Ryan's slightly worse performances causing the drastic difference.

Not sure about Eli. I think people don't or won't care because we play outdoors. This is a dome team coming out to play in "cold" weather.

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2012, 08:48 PM
I'm not going to get caught up in the fact that Atlanta is a dome team. They really don't play like one where our field is going to slow them down. They play more like a cold weather team liking to establish the run. They're a good team but we match up well with them. I'm just glad we got in and everything from now on is gravy to me.

Jughead10
01-03-2012, 09:03 PM
I think it is more of a home/away thing rather than a dome/open air thing.

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2012, 09:31 PM
I think it is more of a home/away thing rather than a dome/open air thing.

I don't know it seems like most people are painting them as a different team because they play inside a dome. The Saints are a dome team where the Falcons really aren't. Also, Ryan played in plenty of cold weather games at BC. It's not an advantage.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-03-2012, 09:35 PM
Something else is going on there. A difference of 9.1 in passer rating does not equal that difference in wins. No way that makes the difference in a 56.5 winning percentage and a 73%.

You have to remember that winning and losing games is a team effort. Those stats can possibly be attributed to other players on the team performing considerably worse outdoors, and therefore it affects the team W-L total a lot more than Ryans personal passing stats.

Jughead10
01-03-2012, 11:23 PM
You have to remember that winning and losing games is a team effort. Those stats can possibly be attributed to other players on the team performing considerably worse outdoors, and therefore it affects the team W-L total a lot more than Ryans personal passing stats.

That's what I meant by something else is going on there.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 08:06 AM
I don't know why but for some reason it really hit me this morning. We're back in the playoffs!!! I'm already way to pumped to get my ass to the stadium on Sunday.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 08:26 AM
I don't know why but for some reason it really hit me this morning. We're back in the playoffs!!! I'm already way to pumped to get my ass to the stadium on Sunday.

You decided to go? Bad weather forcasted.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 08:39 AM
You decided to go? Bad weather forcasted.

According to BBI weatherman the forecast isn't very accurate right now. Obviously plans can change but as of right now we're going. Someone is bringing their special lady friend to the game.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-04-2012, 08:42 AM
That's what I meant by something else is going on there.

Okay, just misunderstood you then :)

BigBlueNorwegian
01-04-2012, 08:46 AM
According to BBI weatherman the forecast isn't very accurate right now. Obviously plans can change but as of right now we're going. Someone is bringing their special lady friend to the game.

She should be able to tough it out for the Giants in the playoffs for three hours. If not, she's not the right girl for you :p

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 09:06 AM
She should be able to tough it out for the Giants in the playoffs for three hours. If not, she's not the right girl for you :p

Haha it's my friend's special lady friend, not mine.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 09:21 AM
What's the weather forecast for the game?

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 09:31 AM
What's the weather forecast for the game?

Rain/Snow but apparently no one really knows at this point. I'm giving it a few more days to get a more accurate picture.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 09:32 AM
Rain/Snow but apparently no one really knows at this point. I'm giving it a few more days to get a more accurate picture.

I think that hurts us more than it hurts them. They can run the ball better than us and that effects our pass rush.

I think the perfect conditions for us heading into this game is for it to be balls cold but not windy or rainy/snowy.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 09:36 AM
I think that hurts us more than it hurts them. They can run the ball better than us and that effects our pass rush.

I think the perfect conditions for us heading into this game is for it to be balls cold but not windy or rainy/snowy.

I agree. Even though they are a dome team they are more suited for the elements than we are. It would also hurt Eli and our passing game which is bad news considering we still can't really run the ball that effectively.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 10:04 AM
I agree. Even though they are a dome team they are more suited for the elements than we are. It would also hurt Eli and our passing game which is bad news considering we still can't really run the ball that effectively.

I think Matt Ryan and that run game are more suited bc Ryan is a Philly kid who played in BC and your run game travels with you everywhere.

But we can't underestimate how the cold will effect the rest of the team. Schematically their unit travels well, but physically is a different story. Their bodies are still not accustomed to 10 degree temperatures.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 10:08 AM
I think Matt Ryan and that run game are more suited bc Ryan is a Philly kid who played in BC and your run game travels with you everywhere.

But we can't underestimate how the cold will effect the rest of the team. Schematically their unit travels well, but physically is a different story. Their bodies are still not accustomed to 10 degree temperatures.

It's not going to be that cold. Seems like high 30's low 40s. I know they said the forecast isn't solid but normally they get the temps right. Just not the direction the rain/snow may travel or how quickly.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 10:11 AM
Well if they're predicting snow the temp can't be in the low 30's high 40's.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 10:16 AM
I don't think they are predicting snow during the game. The snow could be the night before/early morning. Turning into rain at game time.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 10:19 AM
I don't think they are predicting snow during the game. The snow could be the night before/early morning. Turning into rain at game time.

That makes more sense then. According to weather.com there is only a 30% chance of rain right now.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 10:25 AM
Looks like going into this game we will be the healthiest we've been all year besides the IR players. Nicks, Tuck, Manningham, and Phillips aren't even listed on the pre practice injury report for the week.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 10:30 AM
Part of the reason the Falcons record is much worse outdoors is the teams we've played outdoors. We have the Tampa Bay Bucs whom we always struggle with @ their place, no matter how awful they are. We played the Patriots and Steelers both outdoors as well. Vs some of the teams we've gotten indoors just aren't nearly as tough. Plus you have to factor in that literally every outdoor game we play is on the road. We play 0 home games outdoors. That's a huge part of any team's record in the NFL, you're supposed to win at home, and hope to split on the road, if you can do that you're 12-4 every year.

The Falcons and Giants both match up with each other very well, we have a CB with Grimes who can easily stick with Cruz, nothing against the guy he's been fantastic this year, down right nasty, but Grimes matches up with him perfectly physically. Dunta Robinson can be extremely physical with Hakeem on the other side, but can easily get beaten by Nicks' speed as well. On the flip side, you guys have an insane pass rush that is going to make Matt Ryan get the ball out quickly, and your DBs know it. They're going to be able to crowd up towards the line to make it tougher to run, while also better protecting against the short pass.

Ryan doesn't have elite arm strength, but is/was accustomed to playing in the cold weather from his Philly and BC Days. The threat of the deep ball to Julio will hopefully keep your defense honest, but it's going to be a big uphill battle for our offensive line to control the line of scrimmage against your elite pass rush.

Our defensive line outside of Abe and Babs have not produced much in terms of getting good consistent pressure, even those guys have struggled at being consistent. Our "big" free agent has had a couple of good games, and honestly looks at times like he's just plagued with little nagging injuries that are preventing him from playing at that level right now. We're going to need Edwards to step up big time, and I suspect he will given that he was used to playing more snaps in Minnesota than he does with Atlanta's regular season DL rotation.

I sort of see it like this:

ATL on the Left, NYG on the right

OL vs DL = edge Giants
If the Falcons can establish the run this will go a long way in helping balance and taking away that edge from the Giants, but if they can step up and make plays in the run, it could be a long day for Matt Ryan and the Falcons OL.

TE/FB vs LB/S
edge Falcons. I think in both the running and passing games the edge goes to the Falcons here. Tony brings massive consistency and the ability to 'always' be open because of his incredible range. If the Falcons can get their TEs and FBs into the 2nd level blocking up the LBs and Safeties then I think the ATL offense will be able to function at maximum potential.

WRs vs DBs
Edge Falcons. Roddy White has struggled with drops, but still caught 100 passes this season and went over 1000 yards yet again, he's a constant annoyance to defenders and you can't ever miss him on any plays or he's capable of making a big play. Julio Jones can't be matched up easily, and he's really starting to come into his own. The RAC ability he has makes him exceptionally dangerous on every route he runs. Harry Douglas as the wild card here really pushes the advantage towards the Falcons. He's shown his explosiveness and ability to make defenses pay for not covering him up the seam and over the middle, the guy is a big play waiting to happen. His biggest problem is Atlanta's OC can't call his way out of a wet paper bag.

RBs vs LBs
I'll give this edge to the Falcons again. The Giants have been plagued with injuries this season and that's really hurt the continuity in their line backer corps. Turner doesn't make tackling easy, and with guys like Snelling who is a brutal down hill runner, and Quizz who is just as strong as he is elusive, the Falcon RBs can really make life tough on the LBs. (If the DL occupies their blockers and prevents blocks from getting to the 2nd level, that will go a long way in neutralizing this advantage for the Falcons)

DL vs OL
Edge Giants. The Falcons have the potential on the DL to really cause problems for any offensive line, however, they simply don't do it consistently. If they show up, it'll be a tough task, but just as often as they have shown up for a game, they've disappeared in games. No pressure on Eli will give the Giants offense plenty of time to make the Falcons defense pay. The Giants OL has the athletes and the strength to neutralize the Falcon pass rush and force them to blitz, which Eli has become very good at beating.

LBs/S vs TEs/FB
Push. This one is tough, I want to lean towards the Falcons given Sean Weatherspoon's emergence as a big time linebacker, and Lofton has really anchored in the middle, but with Stephen Nicolas likely missing this game brings the squad down, because the Falcons' primary backup is on the IR. Leaving the start to a guy who's going to be getting only his 2nd NFL start, after not being able to become a starter in college. While athletic and strong the inexperience of Spencer Adkins makes this a push.

DBs vs WRs
Edge New York. The matchups are good for Atlanta, which isn't something they can say very often as their secondary has been abysmal at times. But Cruz vs Grimes should be a great matchup, Grimes cancels Cruz's greatest attributes, as they are his as well, and Robinson vs Nicks is going to be a battle of big strong guys who like to get physical. On paper this is a push, but in reality and execution, I give the edge to the Giants, who have had Eli Manning hot this year, and he can make the Falcon Secondary pay for any misstep.

RBs vs LBs
Push. Bradshaw is a massive headache for anyone to deal with, his change of direction and speed coupled with his toughness are just a tough combo for anyone to handle. Follow that up with Jacobs' size and strength and just brutal running your tackling had better be sound. The Falcons have tackled well ever since the Bears game, but it will be critical for the LBs to step up to cancel out the backfield of the Giants.

QBs:
This one is the toughest choice for me. I want can see an argument for every side here. Eli is playing on an elite level, Matt Ryan over the last month has been playing at a level that would rival anyone in the NFL. But Eli has been more consistent this season, despite his team's shortcomings, he's willing them on to comeback victories, but Matt Ryan has done the same. I hate to whimp out and say Push, so I won't give myself that option. I'm going to say that I think Matt Ryan has the potential to have a better game, but given the pass rush situations, I'm giving the edge to Eli. I hope I'm wrong, as a Falcons fan I want us to win this game, and I think it's going to be a good close matchup, but I have to give this edge to Eli for his more consistent performance this season.

Overall:
This game can absolutely go either way. I'll start by saying I hope the Falcons come out on top of a game for the ages.

my HOPEFUL prediction
Falcons 31 - Giants 30

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 10:31 AM
That really sucks then. Big advantage for Atlanta. Damn.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 10:36 AM
Part of the reason the Falcons record is much worse outdoors is the teams we've played outdoors. We have the Tampa Bay Bucs whom we always struggle with @ their place, no matter how awful they are. We played the Patriots and Steelers both outdoors as well. Vs some of the teams we've gotten indoors just aren't nearly as tough. Plus you have to factor in that literally every outdoor game we play is on the road. We play 0 home games outdoors. That's a huge part of any team's record in the NFL, you're supposed to win at home, and hope to split on the road, if you can do that you're 12-4 every year.

The Falcons and Giants both match up with each other very well, we have a CB with Grimes who can easily stick with Cruz, nothing against the guy he's been fantastic this year, down right nasty, but Grimes matches up with him perfectly physically. Dunta Robinson can be extremely physical with Hakeem on the other side, but can easily get beaten by Nicks' speed as well. On the flip side, you guys have an insane pass rush that is going to make Matt Ryan get the ball out quickly, and your DBs know it. They're going to be able to crowd up towards the line to make it tougher to run, while also better protecting against the short pass.

Ryan doesn't have elite arm strength, but is/was accustomed to playing in the cold weather from his Philly and BC Days. The threat of the deep ball to Julio will hopefully keep your defense honest, but it's going to be a big uphill battle for our offensive line to control the line of scrimmage against your elite pass rush.

Our defensive line outside of Abe and Babs have not produced much in terms of getting good consistent pressure, even those guys have struggled at being consistent. Our "big" free agent has had a couple of good games, and honestly looks at times like he's just plagued with little nagging injuries that are preventing him from playing at that level right now. We're going to need Edwards to step up big time, and I suspect he will given that he was used to playing more snaps in Minnesota than he does with Atlanta's regular season DL rotation.

I sort of see it like this:

ATL on the Left, NYG on the right

OL vs DL = edge Giants
If the Falcons can establish the run this will go a long way in helping balance and taking away that edge from the Giants, but if they can step up and make plays in the run, it could be a long day for Matt Ryan and the Falcons OL.

TE/FB vs LB/S
edge Falcons. I think in both the running and passing games the edge goes to the Falcons here. Tony brings massive consistency and the ability to 'always' be open because of his incredible range. If the Falcons can get their TEs and FBs into the 2nd level blocking up the LBs and Safeties then I think the ATL offense will be able to function at maximum potential.

WRs vs DBs
Edge Falcons. Roddy White has struggled with drops, but still caught 100 passes this season and went over 1000 yards yet again, he's a constant annoyance to defenders and you can't ever miss him on any plays or he's capable of making a big play. Julio Jones can't be matched up easily, and he's really starting to come into his own. The RAC ability he has makes him exceptionally dangerous on every route he runs. Harry Douglas as the wild card here really pushes the advantage towards the Falcons. He's shown his explosiveness and ability to make defenses pay for not covering him up the seam and over the middle, the guy is a big play waiting to happen. His biggest problem is Atlanta's OC can't call his way out of a wet paper bag.

RBs vs LBs
I'll give this edge to the Falcons again. The Giants have been plagued with injuries this season and that's really hurt the continuity in their line backer corps. Turner doesn't make tackling easy, and with guys like Snelling who is a brutal down hill runner, and Quizz who is just as strong as he is elusive, the Falcon RBs can really make life tough on the LBs. (If the DL occupies their blockers and prevents blocks from getting to the 2nd level, that will go a long way in neutralizing this advantage for the Falcons)

DL vs OL
Edge Giants. The Falcons have the potential on the DL to really cause problems for any offensive line, however, they simply don't do it consistently. If they show up, it'll be a tough task, but just as often as they have shown up for a game, they've disappeared in games. No pressure on Eli will give the Giants offense plenty of time to make the Falcons defense pay. The Giants OL has the athletes and the strength to neutralize the Falcon pass rush and force them to blitz, which Eli has become very good at beating.

LBs/S vs TEs/FB
Push. This one is tough, I want to lean towards the Falcons given Sean Weatherspoon's emergence as a big time linebacker, and Lofton has really anchored in the middle, but with Stephen Nicolas likely missing this game brings the squad down, because the Falcons' primary backup is on the IR. Leaving the start to a guy who's going to be getting only his 2nd NFL start, after not being able to become a starter in college. While athletic and strong the inexperience of Spencer Adkins makes this a push.

DBs vs WRs
Edge New York. The matchups are good for Atlanta, which isn't something they can say very often as their secondary has been abysmal at times. But Cruz vs Grimes should be a great matchup, Grimes cancels Cruz's greatest attributes, as they are his as well, and Robinson vs Nicks is going to be a battle of big strong guys who like to get physical. On paper this is a push, but in reality and execution, I give the edge to the Giants, who have had Eli Manning hot this year, and he can make the Falcon Secondary pay for any misstep.

RBs vs LBs
Push. Bradshaw is a massive headache for anyone to deal with, his change of direction and speed coupled with his toughness are just a tough combo for anyone to handle. Follow that up with Jacobs' size and strength and just brutal running your tackling had better be sound. The Falcons have tackled well ever since the Bears game, but it will be critical for the LBs to step up to cancel out the backfield of the Giants.

QBs:
This one is the toughest choice for me. I want can see an argument for every side here. Eli is playing on an elite level, Matt Ryan over the last month has been playing at a level that would rival anyone in the NFL. But Eli has been more consistent this season, despite his team's shortcomings, he's willing them on to comeback victories, but Matt Ryan has done the same. I hate to whimp out and say Push, so I won't give myself that option. I'm going to say that I think Matt Ryan has the potential to have a better game, but given the pass rush situations, I'm giving the edge to Eli. I hope I'm wrong, as a Falcons fan I want us to win this game, and I think it's going to be a good close matchup, but I have to give this edge to Eli for his more consistent performance this season.

Overall:
This game can absolutely go either way. I'll start by saying I hope the Falcons come out on top of a game for the ages.

my HOPEFUL prediction
Falcons 31 - Giants 30

Good breakdown. This game is a push to me. It really can go either way.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 10:45 AM
That really sucks then. Big advantage for Atlanta. Damn.

What really sucks? A less than 50% chance of rain?

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 11:04 AM
What really sucks? A less than 50% chance of rain?

Yeah I posted that before I read the other posts. I thought it was going to be like in the 40s and rainy/snowy.

If that is the case, then that hurts us. If it's just cold, then we have the advantage.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 11:21 AM
Yeah I posted that before I read the other posts. I thought it was going to be like in the 40s and rainy/snowy.

If that is the case, then that hurts us. If it's just cold, then we have the advantage.

I got ya. Like I said earlier I'm not going to worry about the weather forecast just yet.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 11:22 AM
Yeah I posted that before I read the other posts. I thought it was going to be like in the 40s and rainy/snowy.

If that is the case, then that hurts us. If it's just cold, then we have the advantage.

Just curious why you think the cold gives you the advantage.

Key offensive pieces for Atlanta are from cold weather, Matt Ryan, Boston College, Michael Turner, NIU. Harry D is from Louisville which had some pretty bad weather as well.

I think the whole dome team in bad weather which typically fits, doesn't fit Atlanta simply because the offense is so well rounded they can win through the air or on the ground and they actually would prefer the ground game to take up the most slack.

Defensively, I don't think it makes a big difference for either team. A slow slippery nasty field is bad for everyone, and the Giants DL is still going to be a big problem no matter what.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 11:45 AM
Just curious why you think the cold gives you the advantage.

Just the physical aspect of it. Our guys are accustomed to playing in it, your guys won't be. Schematically you guys are more equipped to play in it than we are, but physically, as much as guys have a history of playing in it in the past, when your body gets used to a certain weather, it gets shocked when you play in the cold no matter who you are.

So it is an advantage in that sense.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 11:49 AM
Just the physical aspect of it. Our guys are accustomed to playing in it, your guys won't be. Schematically you guys are more equipped to play in it than we are, but physically, as much as guys have a history of playing in it in the past, when your body gets used to a certain weather, it gets shocked when you play in the cold no matter who you are.

So it is an advantage in that sense.

I can see that, but it's been a pretty mild winter for you guys to this point so far as well hasn't it?

I think cold weather sucks for everyone, no matter if you're used to it or not, your lungs will still be on fire with that first gasp of icy air.

Forenci
01-04-2012, 12:05 PM
I can see that, but it's been a pretty mild winter for you guys to this point so far as well hasn't it?

I think cold weather sucks for everyone, no matter if you're used to it or not, your lungs will still be on fire with that first gasp of icy air.

Eh, I think being used to it is a pretty large factor. I know having been raised in New England my entire life I was much more accustomed to the cold than when I moved down to South Carolina this year. I use to wear shorts when it was in the high 40's up here but after a super hot summer and warmer weather deep into November/December when the low 50's/high 40's came around I was freezing.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 01:18 PM
Eh, I think being used to it is a pretty large factor. I know having been raised in New England my entire life I was much more accustomed to the cold than when I moved down to South Carolina this year. I use to wear shorts when it was in the high 40's up here but after a super hot summer and warmer weather deep into November/December when the low 50's/high 40's came around I was freezing.

Sure, I can attest to that myself I lived in Arizona for a while, when I came back to the South East I thought winter was horrible. I think a lot of it will depend on the wind, and just how cold it makes it feel. Cause on the sidelines those guys are going to have heaters everywhere, it'll feel like the 60s, once they step on the field that'll be a different story. But Upper 30s, lower 40s just isn't that bad, especially geared up in all the new thermal stuff they have now.

I don't see it really being a plus for the Giants to be accustomed to the cold, since it's not going to be bitter cold like teens. Atlanta area is used to getting into the 20s and below especially over the last couple of really cold long winters.

scottyboy
01-04-2012, 01:23 PM
the area doesn't matter, the difference is being a dome team. It doesn't matter if it's -20 outside if you're playing in a dome. Eli's more accustomed to the infamous East Rutherford winds whereas Matty Ice isn't. And even when it's not windy...it is.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 01:59 PM
The new stadium isn't as windy as the old one.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 01:59 PM
the area doesn't matter, the difference is being a dome team. It doesn't matter if it's -20 outside if you're playing in a dome. Eli's more accustomed to the infamous East Rutherford winds whereas Matty Ice isn't. And even when it's not windy...it is.

Fair enough. But Eli doesn't really play well at home, do you think these conditions are part of why he plays better on the road? Plus isn't this a new stadium, while you guys have played 10/11 games in it now it's not quite "home" yet is it?

I agree it doesn't matter if you're playing in a dome, but if you're living in, and practicing in those temperatures which the Falcons do since their facility is outdoors, it's really not that big of a difference I wouldn't think. I could totally be wrong here, we don't get the same wind here as you guys do I'm sure, I expect that to play havoc with the passes for both teams. More so against the Falcons than the Giants as Eli has a bit of a stronger arm than Matt.

I'd give the adjustment edge to the Falcons WRs over the Giant WRs though. With Julio and Roddy we've got 2 WRs who really do a good job of getting to the ball if it's off the mark.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 02:03 PM
Cruz had a better season than Whote and Nicks had a better season than Jones so I'm not sure how you guys get the edge. At worst it's a push.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 02:06 PM
Cruz had a better season than Whote and Nicks had a better season than Jones so I'm not sure how you guys get the edge. At worst it's a push.

But when you go deeper than that Mario is better than Harry Douglas.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 02:10 PM
I don't know about that. Mario has been hurt and nonexistant the past 3 weeks.

And Barden is a bum. We really only have 2 reliable WRs right now.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 02:12 PM
I don't know about that. Mario has been hurt and nonexistant the past 3 weeks.

And Barden is a bum. We really only have 2 reliable WRs right now.

Yeah he's been hurt. But we know he can be a quality WR. Douglas had his best season this year. 39 catches 498 yards. Which is basically what Mario did, but we know Mario can be better.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 02:13 PM
Btw, can we all finally agree and put an end to the Ramses Barden is good train?

I think it's official that he sucks now. He's had more than enough time and opportunities to make his presence felt as our 3rd WR and bombed every time.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 02:17 PM
I think the fact that even when he was the 3rd WR for a game, he barely saw the field says enough. They'd split Ballard out wide before putting Barden out there. Beckum sees the field more.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 02:32 PM
Cruz had a better season than Whote and Nicks had a better season than Jones so I'm not sure how you guys get the edge. At worst it's a push.

The more you look into it the more you can see how close this is, I give the edge to Atlanta due to my affinity for the team, maybe this should be a push instead. I still like Roddy more than Cruz, despite Cruz having a better year production wise, and I'd still take Julio over Nicks, and honestly between harry and mario I couldn't care who I got both are really good slot guys.

I had a big long write up comparing production, but basically it boils down to, Roddy's done it longer against double coverage than Cruz has, and Jones has been a man child of late rounding out the season with 8 touchdowns in his last 7 games, more than Nicks had in 16 games.

The yardage can be such an inflated stat, especially for a team who was playing from behind a lot, and without their starting RB. They had to throw, while Atlanta threw a lot too, don't get me wrong, when you're throwing for comebacks, vs throwing to move the chains, you're playing 2 different games with route combos, and trying to milk clock vs trying to conserve it and get big chunk plays.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 02:33 PM
Yeah he's been hurt. But we know he can be a quality WR. Douglas had his best season this year. 39 catches 498 yards. Which is basically what Mario did, but we know Mario can be better.

You can say that for Harry too, look at what he did when given the opportunity to be a bigger part of the offense was Jones was out, he stepped up and made plays and kept things moving for Atlanta. He's a stud, but we have a BUM of an Offensive coordinator, not to mention the fact he's the #4 WR for ATL.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 02:37 PM
You can say that for Harry too, look at what he did when given the opportunity to be a bigger part of the offense was Jones was out, he stepped up and made plays and kept things moving for Atlanta. He's a stud, but we have a BUM of an Offensive coordinator, not to mention the fact he's the #4 WR for ATL.

I don't think you can say Harry is a stud. Mario has started in this league before and played decently well. It just happens we have 2 better WRs. Apparently Atlanta did not think Harry is a stud otherwise they wouldn't have traded their whole draft for Julio.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 02:42 PM
Btw, can we all finally agree and put an end to the Ramses Barden is good train?

I think it's official that he sucks now. He's had more than enough time and opportunities to make his presence felt as our 3rd WR and bombed every time.

I'm being 100% serious when I say he's showed what I want to see this year. I expect a good year next year from Barden. If Mario leaves he'll be a perfect #3.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 02:45 PM
I think the fact that even when he was the 3rd WR for a game, he barely saw the field says enough. They'd split Ballard out wide before putting Barden out there. Beckum sees the field more.

Barden has better stats this year and he was out half the year. Beckum is garbage. Ballard is actually a good TE despite him being slow as **** and that's why he's on the field more.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 02:46 PM
I don't think you can say Harry is a stud. Mario has started in this league before and played decently well. It just happens we have 2 better WRs. Apparently Atlanta did not think Harry is a stud otherwise they wouldn't have traded their whole draft for Julio.

Okay, maybe I should say stud slot guy. But when asked to start Harry was extremely productive, and when going in for an injured Julio Jones he really stepped it up. Harry has been a spot starter and has done well whenever he's been given the opportunity. Last year he struggled a bit with drops, but it was mostly getting back into football shape and getting into the flow. This season he hasn't had that problem and has really proved his worth. Not to many 5th options in your offense will come up with 500 yards for your team on the season. Especially not in a more ball control style of offense like Mularkey likes to run.

But you're right if he was just a pure 'stud' he'd be starting. But he's a stud for his position, much like I think Mario is a stud slot guy.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 02:48 PM
Barden has better stats this year and he was out half the year. Beckum is garbage. Ballard is actually a good TE despite him being slow as **** and that's why he's on the field more.

I'm really sad to read that. I liked him, and I think he's got potential to be a very good TE, never elite, but I thought he was going to be good. Maybe he just need a bit more time to really find a spot, or maybe he just doesn't really fit what you guys do with TEs?

I haven't watched the Giants a lot this year, mostly just redzone channel, so I can't speak for their entire games and gameplans. But I really thought he'd be a pretty solid TE. I mean I don't know why you guys didn't keep Kevin Boss, but I thought he'd make a nice transition.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 02:49 PM
Barden has better stats this year and he was out half the year. Beckum is garbage. Ballard is actually a good TE despite him being slow as **** and that's why he's on the field more.

They are both garbage. But the coaching staff apparently thinks one is worse than the other.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 02:49 PM
Beckum doesn't fit what we do but I'm not sure how much better off he'd be with another team. He just flat out can't play as far as I'm concerned.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 02:51 PM
Beckum doesn't fit what we do but I'm not sure how much better off he'd be with another team. He just flat out can't play as far as I'm concerned.

So what does that say about Barden then if the coaches put Beckum split out wide on the field more than him?

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 02:55 PM
They are both garbage. But the coaching staff apparently thinks one is worse than the other.

There is no reason for Barden to see the field right now. When he gets playing time Eli targets him a good amount which shows me he's doing positive things on the field. I expect a 45-50 catch season from Barden next year.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 02:56 PM
So what does that say about Barden then if the coaches put Beckum split out wide on the field more than him?

Do you have numbers to back this up? I haven't seen Beckum on the field very often in the last month.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 02:59 PM
Do you have numbers to back this up? I haven't seen Beckum on the field very often in the last month.

Jake Ballard paced the Giants’ offense with 77 snaps this weekend. Bear Pascoe worked 23 snaps, while Travis Beckum handled seven prior to an injury. Victor Cruz led the wideouts with 72 snaps played. Hakeem Nicks was in on 69 plays and Mario Manningham worked just 32. Ramses Barden saw only one snap. Ahmad Bradshaw sat out the entire first half due to suspension, but still played 28 snaps in the second half. Brandon Jacobs was in on 28 plays, as well. DJ Ware handled 22.

That's the first Cowboys game.

Hakeem Nicks paced the wideouts with 69 snaps, four more than Victor Cruz. Each ran 40 pass routes. Mario Manningham saw 30 snaps. Devin Thomas got in for one play. Travis Beckum edged Bear Pascoe for snaps at tight end, 40-38. Ahmad Bradhaw got double the snaps of Brandon Jacobs, 34-17, even though New York led throughout. Danny Ware got in for 19 plays. Fullback Henry Hynoski saw 31 snaps.

That's the second, but it's not really fair with Ballard hurt.

In those two games Barden saw the field for a whopping total of 1 play.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 02:59 PM
Beckum doesn't fit what we do but I'm not sure how much better off he'd be with another team. He just flat out can't play as far as I'm concerned.

Ah, well that sucks. Would he be better suited in a place like Indy backing up and learning from Dallas Clark to take over that type role? That's sort of what I saw him as in college.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 03:02 PM
Barden did see 13 snaps vs the Redskins, but that was with Thomas, Ballard, and Beckum all out.

Beckum played more than Barden too against the Jets with both Ballard and Mario out. I can't find a breakdown of where Beckum lined up on plays but that's just from memory.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 03:04 PM
Barden played a ton in the Jets game though and Beckum I don't remember seeing often. I really think Barden can still be a good player. I'll be giving him one more year.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 03:05 PM
Not to mention, Barden was a healthy scratch vs the Cowboys in week 17 supposedly bc he's in the dog house.

Devin Thomas and Jernigan both saw more snaps than Barden with the season on the line. That says a lot.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 03:06 PM
Barden played a ton in the Jets game though and Beckum I don't remember seeing often. I really think Barden can still be a good player. I'll be giving him one more year.

29-19 Beckum. But again that is with guys out ahead of both of them.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 03:11 PM
We'll see. Barden has been on the field less then and still has 10 more targets on the year than Beckum. You guys may definitely be right about Barden but I'm willing to give him one more year. He can be the next guy to step up if Mario walks.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 03:14 PM
I'm willing to give him 1 more year (next year is a make or break year for him though) but I wouldn't invest all my eggs in his basket.

If we can't re-sign Mario, we better look for a viable replacement, bc as far as I'm concerned, the replacement is not in house and they should not assume so themselves either.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 03:15 PM
I'm willing to give him 1 more year (next year is a make or break year for him though) but I wouldn't invest all my eggs in his basket.

If we can't re-sign Mario, we better look for a viable replacement, bc as far as I'm concerned, the replacement is not in house and they should not assume so themselves either.

Agreed. This won't happen, but for some reason I was thinking about Reggie Wayne going from playing with one Manning to the other.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 03:17 PM
I'll throw Barden to the wolves if Sanu is there in the 2nd for us.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 03:17 PM
Agreed. This won't happen, but for some reason I was thinking about Reggie Wayne going from playing with one Manning to the other.

I wouldn't mind Reggie. But I just prefer youth. Cheaper and will give us more years.

Sanu is looking kind of sexy right now.

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 03:18 PM
I wouldn't mind Reggie. But I just prefer youth. Cheaper and will give us more years.

Sanu is looking kind of sexy right now.

Yeah but we with two guys like Nicks and Cruz already at the top I feel like that's a wasted pick. A great problem to have, but we aren't without problems that we can really be storing talent at other positions.

I just wonder what type of market Wayne will have. Would he accept a 2 year deal? Would he want to play with a rookie (even if it's sexy Luck), at this stage of his career?

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 03:21 PM
I wouldn't take Sanu in the 1st because we have bigger needs like you said. As for Wayne it all depends. If Peyton is QB he might want to just stay and finish out his career in Indy. If Luck is QB then he may not want to be there with a rookie QB taking his lumps. I think we might be able to get him to sign a 2 year deal. NFL contract lengths don't matter that much anyway.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2012, 03:21 PM
Yeah but we with two guys like Nicks and Cruz already at the top I feel like that's a wasted pick. A great problem to have, but we aren't without problems that we can really be storing talent at other positions.

I just wonder what type of market Wayne will have. Would he accept a 2 year deal?

We're no longer a running team, and chances are with the direction the league is moving in, we won't be any time soon. So having 3 WRs is not a luxury, if we're going to air it out with Eli from now on it's a necessity.

I have no problem investing a 2nd in a WR if the board says he's BPA. I want linebackers more than anything, and I hope we draft 2 of em this year, but if we can land a Luke Keuchly in round 1 and the talent at LT, OLB, TE, and RB aren't as good as that 3rd WR, then I wouldn't mind taking that WR.

Forenci
01-04-2012, 03:23 PM
I'd love Sanu, but I'm not sure how I feel about spending a first/second round pick on a WR this year.

I think we'll be fine at WR. I still like Jernigan a lot. I think he could have a similar impact as Mario did in his second year. He gets a year to redshirt and learn the offense and then can step up and be that quick screen/deep threat/return man for us.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 03:30 PM
Do you guys really think that Cruz is the real deal? I mean I know it's pretty tough to hit 1500+ yards as a flash in the pan guy, but he got nearly 100 of those on 1 play. He did his job on it, but there's a bit of a breakdown in communication there if you ask me.

When people start scheming against him and doubling him do you think he'll be able to continue to produce as a #1 WR? Personally I think Nicks is your best WR, but again, I haven't watched a lot of the Giants this year. I just like the skillset Nicks has.

What can you tell me about Cruz, are you guys all in on him? I wouldn't stop building the arsenal for Eli just yet, getting a guy like Sanu in the 2nd round wouldn't cost you guys much in terms of a draft pick who could pay off big time, especially if Mario walks.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 03:31 PM
I'd love Sanu, but I'm not sure how I feel about spending a first/second round pick on a WR this year.

I think we'll be fine at WR. I still like Jernigan a lot. I think he could have a similar impact as Mario did in his second year. He gets a year to redshirt and learn the offense and then can step up and be that quick screen/deep threat/return man for us.

Oh good point, I forgot about Jernigan, scratch my previous comment. I think that kid can flat play!

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 03:34 PM
Do you guys really think that Cruz is the real deal? I mean I know it's pretty tough to hit 1500+ yards as a flash in the pan guy, but he got nearly 100 of those on 1 play. He did his job on it, but there's a bit of a breakdown in communication there if you ask me.

When people start scheming against him and doubling him do you think he'll be able to continue to produce as a #1 WR? Personally I think Nicks is your best WR, but again, I haven't watched a lot of the Giants this year. I just like the skillset Nicks has.

What can you tell me about Cruz, are you guys all in on him? I wouldn't stop building the arsenal for Eli just yet, getting a guy like Sanu in the 2nd round wouldn't cost you guys much in terms of a draft pick who could pay off big time, especially if Mario walks.

100 were on one play? That's fine. He was a UDFA. I'll sign up for 1,400 from him next year right now.

Sanu would also worry me in this offense. We are very vertical, and I don't think he can play the slot for us. His skill set is better for a different team.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-04-2012, 03:40 PM
Let's get Sanu! Please! Sanu!!!!!!!!!!

BBD, a lot of WRs on this team would probably excel on other teams with much simpler WR rules.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 03:50 PM
100 were on one play? That's fine. He was a UDFA. I'll sign up for 1,400 from him next year right now.

Sanu would also worry me in this offense. We are very vertical, and I don't think he can play the slot for us. His skill set is better for a different team.

Nah that's not what I'm trying to get at. I'm saying when people start scheming for him do you think he's even got a shot at 1400 yards. What makes him special, is he just another Desean Jackson type who torches people, or is he just that sudden or crisp on his routes. On his 99 yard TD he got tracked down the guy just blew the sideline tackle because he wasn't ready for the hurdle (a great move by Cruz)

I just haven't seen anything in the highlights of him that makes me think, oh wow, he's a #1 WR in the NFL. Nothing like Fitz or AJ80 or CJ. Where you just know the dude can't be stopped if their team needs them on any given play. Does he have that ability?

Jughead10
01-04-2012, 03:58 PM
Nah that's not what I'm trying to get at. I'm saying when people start scheming for him do you think he's even got a shot at 1400 yards. What makes him special, is he just another Desean Jackson type who torches people, or is he just that sudden or crisp on his routes. On his 99 yard TD he got tracked down the guy just blew the sideline tackle because he wasn't ready for the hurdle (a great move by Cruz)

I just haven't seen anything in the highlights of him that makes me think, oh wow, he's a #1 WR in the NFL. Nothing like Fitz or AJ80 or CJ. Where you just know the dude can't be stopped if their team needs them on any given play. Does he have that ability?

No, he's not that type of player. He's more Wes Welker than those guys. But not quite as shifty a bit more size and leaping/ball skills. He may never have this many receiving yards again. But I don't see why he can't and shouldn't be in the 1000-1200 range in this offense.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-04-2012, 04:01 PM
Nah that's not what I'm trying to get at. I'm saying when people start scheming for him do you think he's even got a shot at 1400 yards. What makes him special, is he just another Desean Jackson type who torches people, or is he just that sudden or crisp on his routes. On his 99 yard TD he got tracked down the guy just blew the sideline tackle because he wasn't ready for the hurdle (a great move by Cruz)

I just haven't seen anything in the highlights of him that makes me think, oh wow, he's a #1 WR in the NFL. Nothing like Fitz or AJ80 or CJ. Where you just know the dude can't be stopped if their team needs them on any given play. Does he have that ability?

At the end of the day, all that # 1 WR talk is just fan non sense. The thing I look for is productivity. Is this WR productive? I don't care if he is a "#1" or a "# 28781q72837182781281728783" WR. Cruz may not be a "#1" or what not, but he just out produced Fitz, Jennings, and a lot of others. Now are their circumstances to that. Sure.. But the I'd rather focus on productivity. I think fans get so caught up with numbering WRs.

Is this guy a # 1 2 3? Not to mention teams use a lot of personnel packages so that all goes out the window.

scottyboy
01-04-2012, 04:34 PM
SANU SANU SANU SANUUUUUU

but it's a luxury. I think Jernigan is going to be very good for us, I'm with Forenci on that one. Even though BBD dubbed him Sinorice 2.0.

we need LB and OL before we go with a WR...but like, I'd LOVE Sanu

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 05:06 PM
Sanu reminds me of a more athletic Steve Smith.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2012, 05:24 PM
Fewell's contract doesn't end at the end of this year. He signed a 1 year extension after last year. He may have saved his job anyway with the last 2 games but it's looking like there's a great chance he'll be back no matter what. Let's hope some dumb team hires him as head coach.

the_dark_knight
01-04-2012, 05:47 PM
At the end of the day, all that # 1 WR talk is just fan non sense. The thing I look for is productivity. Is this WR productive? I don't care if he is a "#1" or a "# 28781q72837182781281728783" WR. Cruz may not be a "#1" or what not, but he just out produced Fitz, Jennings, and a lot of others. Now are their circumstances to that. Sure.. But the I'd rather focus on productivity. I think fans get so caught up with numbering WRs.

Is this guy a # 1 2 3? Not to mention teams use a lot of personnel packages so that all goes out the window.

See, now to me, I'd want more touchdowns, yards are okay, but yards especially for QBs and WRs get inflated super fast, give me someone who gets points on the board.

Big_Pete
01-04-2012, 05:55 PM
I wouldnt mind us getting TE Dwayne Allen next year, moving Ballard to a good #2 TE with Beckum/Pascoe as the #3.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-04-2012, 06:17 PM
See, now to me, I'd want more touchdowns, yards are okay, but yards especially for QBs and WRs get inflated super fast, give me someone who gets points on the board.

Then get a good OC, and get personnel that can be good in the red zone. That could mean pass catching RB, TE, or a big/tall WR like a Burress.

I feel like I can score in the red zone. I want yards too. Get me YAC! I can throw near the goal line and either pass or run the ball in. I will score either way. Between the 20 and 20 I should be able to move the ball. Burress was avg in that area. However, in the red zone for Sanchez he did very well.

Ideally, I want to be able to get production. And that means everything, which is yards between the 20 and 20, and TDs too.

For example, Victor Cruz was productive. Was he a "#1" or "# 129873189723?
who cares? I want to know baseline, if this player can be productive for us. He def. was. He got yards, YAC, and TDs. To me that player can be on my team because he is productive.

I think too often fans care about labels. Is this guy a # 1? For me I look for can this guy be productive in our specific scheme? Can he understand the sight adjustments, such as Choice and option routes? Can he do what we are asking him to do? If he can, we feel his skill set, within our frame work of our system will allow him to be a productive player for us.

the_dark_knight
01-05-2012, 07:16 AM
I was more talking about #1 WR as in, someone who teams have to plan against, a guy who can dominate a game even when teams plan against him. When it's 4th and 7 and you have to convert to keep the game going, is he the guy who everyone knows is getting the ball, but it doesn't matter, you can't really do anything to stop it, unless you don't cover someone else.

That's more what I was thinking in a #1 WR. Does Victor Cruz have what it takes to be an elite WR, or is he just a really amazing story this year who will come back to Earth next year?

Giantsfan1080
01-05-2012, 07:20 AM
Going to be 45 and partly cloudy on Sunday now. 0% chance of rain.

Rosebud
01-05-2012, 08:41 AM
I was more talking about #1 WR as in, someone who teams have to plan against, a guy who can dominate a game even when teams plan against him. When it's 4th and 7 and you have to convert to keep the game going, is he the guy who everyone knows is getting the ball, but it doesn't matter, you can't really do anything to stop it, unless you don't cover someone else.

That's more what I was thinking in a #1 WR. Does Victor Cruz have what it takes to be an elite WR, or is he just a really amazing story this year who will come back to Earth next year?

The giants won't really have a #1. Eli's going to go to whoever's open on 4th and 7, that could be Cruz, or Nicks, or Mario, or Ballard, or Jernigan or even Barden if he takes the next step that some of us think he will.

As for teams scheming against and doubling Cruz, that's already happened, he's already getting just as many double teams as Nicks and still put up the season he did. He might not have dominant size or speed, but he's remarkably quick, is absolutely frustrating to bring down, has great ball skills and makes big plays when needed. If those things remain stables of his game he'll be a great starter for the giants opposite Nicks regardless of if he's considered an elite #1 or not. The kid's got a lot of Miles Austin in his game with more big play ability, and that's a great weapon for an elite QB like Eli.

the_dark_knight
01-05-2012, 10:09 AM
The giants won't really have a #1. Eli's going to go to whoever's open on 4th and 7, that could be Cruz, or Nicks, or Mario, or Ballard, or Jernigan or even Barden if he takes the next step that some of us think he will.

As for teams scheming against and doubling Cruz, that's already happened, he's already getting just as many double teams as Nicks and still put up the season he did. He might not have dominant size or speed, but he's remarkably quick, is absolutely frustrating to bring down, has great ball skills and makes big plays when needed. If those things remain stables of his game he'll be a great starter for the giants opposite Nicks regardless of if he's considered an elite #1 or not. The kid's got a lot of Miles Austin in his game with more big play ability, and that's a great weapon for an elite QB like Eli.

That's cool. Sort of like what Atlanta has with Roddy as our #1 but truthfully we have 3 #1 targets with Roddy, Julio, and Tony. So I get what you're saying, but on 4th and 7 and you gotta have it, someone has to be the first read, someone is the go to guy. That's what I'd say Roddy or Tony are for Matt right now. Of course he's going to get the ball to whoever is open, but if he's gotta force it to someone, it's going to be Tony or Roddy. I mean Julio is dynamic and he's going to get plenty of those type balls as well, but if you're a DC and you've gotta double someone and leave someone else 1 on 1, you can't afford to go 1 on 1 with either of those guys.

Sounds like Grimes + Cruz is going to be an epic battle of Undrafted guys who've made it to Pro Bowl status. I'm totally ready for Sunday to get here so we can stop speculating and start getting some hitting going on!

NY+Giants=NYG
01-05-2012, 10:24 AM
I was more talking about #1 WR as in, someone who teams have to plan against, a guy who can dominate a game even when teams plan against him. When it's 4th and 7 and you have to convert to keep the game going, is he the guy who everyone knows is getting the ball, but it doesn't matter, you can't really do anything to stop it, unless you don't cover someone else.

That's more what I was thinking in a #1 WR. Does Victor Cruz have what it takes to be an elite WR, or is he just a really amazing story this year who will come back to Earth next year?

Again if your productivity is X, and it's right up there with Elite or "#1" WRs, then you'd hope teams better game plan for the guy. If not, then there is a problem with that game plan.

For example, if the Falcons don't game plan for Cruz, that's on them! He has dominated teams this season. If they don't have an answer they are in trouble. Same can be said about our pass rush too. They need to game plan for that too.

Giantsfan1080
01-05-2012, 10:28 AM
Didn't Grimes just have surgery and has only played 1 game in the last month or so?

Rosebud
01-05-2012, 10:37 AM
That's cool. Sort of like what Atlanta has with Roddy as our #1 but truthfully we have 3 #1 targets with Roddy, Julio, and Tony. So I get what you're saying, but on 4th and 7 and you gotta have it, someone has to be the first read, someone is the go to guy. That's what I'd say Roddy or Tony are for Matt right now. Of course he's going to get the ball to whoever is open, but if he's gotta force it to someone, it's going to be Tony or Roddy. I mean Julio is dynamic and he's going to get plenty of those type balls as well, but if you're a DC and you've gotta double someone and leave someone else 1 on 1, you can't afford to go 1 on 1 with either of those guys.

Sounds like Grimes + Cruz is going to be an epic battle of Undrafted guys who've made it to Pro Bowl status. I'm totally ready for Sunday to get here so we can stop speculating and start getting some hitting going on!

That's the thing though, both Cruz and Nicks and good enough to demand double teams and coverages rolled in their direction and both are good enough to beat that coverage often enough to keep the other guy free and both are going to beast against single coverage. So it doesn't matter which one teams chose to focus on.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-05-2012, 10:42 AM
That's the beauty of it. How do they play our WRs?

Who covers X, Z and then Y/H/F (inside WR)?

the_dark_knight
01-05-2012, 12:27 PM
Didn't Grimes just have surgery and has only played 1 game in the last month or so?

He did, but he played against New Orleans and they used Tampa as a bye week for him to let him get another week of recovery. He could have come back sooner if needed, and he could have played Sunday if we needed him to. He was looking pretty good against New Orleans, making some tough tackles and being his usual sticky self in coverage.

the_dark_knight
01-05-2012, 12:40 PM
That's the beauty of it. How do they play our WRs?

Who covers X, Z and then Y/H/F (inside WR)?

Oh, I get it, but there's just a difference in the Patriot approach where you've got a buncha average dudes who can beat you (except when they had Randy) but not abuse you and no one is really a star, vs the ideal approach of where you have guys who if you cover 1 the other one destroys you sort of thing.

You can't double Julio, but he'll kill you 1 on 1, same for Roddy. So I get that, just wondering if Cruz is really that guy who was the special exception that slipped through the cracks and has 'it' in the NFL or if he was just lightning in a bottle. Not that that's a bad thing, sometimes all you need is a little lightning to be Super Bowl Champs, as the Giants well know.

I'm so ready for this game, I wanna see how we stack up. The Falcons have been a frustrating enigma all season, as by their record and the talk on ESPN would indicate, the Giants have too. I wanna see who shows up, and if the best from both squads show up, it should be an epic game.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Falcons chance to win this game, but I was very optimistic last year we could beat Green Bay and I had more gusto than our players did. So I'm hedging my bets a little bit when it comes to the emotional side. Now when Sunday gets here, forget it, all bets are off and I'll invest my emotion cheering like crazy.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-05-2012, 08:03 PM
Oh, I get it, but there's just a difference in the Patriot approach where you've got a buncha average dudes who can beat you (except when they had Randy) but not abuse you and no one is really a star, vs the ideal approach of where you have guys who if you cover 1 the other one destroys you sort of thing.

You can't double Julio, but he'll kill you 1 on 1, same for Roddy. So I get that, just wondering if Cruz is really that guy who was the special exception that slipped through the cracks and has 'it' in the NFL or if he was just lightning in a bottle. Not that that's a bad thing, sometimes all you need is a little lightning to be Super Bowl Champs, as the Giants well know.

I'm so ready for this game, I wanna see how we stack up. The Falcons have been a frustrating enigma all season, as by their record and the talk on ESPN would indicate, the Giants have too. I wanna see who shows up, and if the best from both squads show up, it should be an epic game.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Falcons chance to win this game, but I was very optimistic last year we could beat Green Bay and I had more gusto than our players did. So I'm hedging my bets a little bit when it comes to the emotional side. Now when Sunday gets here, forget it, all bets are off and I'll invest my emotion cheering like crazy.

Maybe he just fits in our scheme. Same with Steve Smith did. Go to a different team and he may not be as productive.

Our WR rules specifically our choice and option routes are one of the most complex in the NFL. That's why Cruz didn't get it early on. So we had to sign Stockley this season. But he got hurt, Cruz stepped up his game and did amazingly well.

In another system, he be just good or avg. So who knows.

BaLLiN
01-05-2012, 08:14 PM
Maybe he just fits in our scheme. Same with Steve Smith did. Go to a different team and he may not be as productive.

Our WR rules specifically our choice and option routes are one of the most complex in the NFL. That's why Cruz didn't get it early on. So we had to sign Stockley this season. But he got hurt, Cruz stepped up his game and did amazingly well.

In another system, he be just good or avg. So who knows.

Cruz plays outside too, which is usually much less complicated and is more of a natural receiver than primarily a routerunner. He has shown that he is an athlete and can play with the simplified routes. From my experience, outside receivers count steps, inside receivers go off areas in relation to defenders or yardage. The fact that Cruz can do both very well is very useful for us.

Steve Smith wasn't the threat in the open field that Cruz is and its not even close. Smith ran routes perfectly, but didn't make people miss or use his strength to shed would-be tacklers.

The only receiver that would really benefit from not being in our system is probably Manningham. He is the most elusive with the ball in his hands, and our system is more completion based than west coast where the receivers get the ball in their hands and get some YAC.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2012, 08:14 AM
The concept of having a #1 WR, #2 WR etc is a fabricated one by us fans and the media. It really doesn't exist. QBs in the NFL make reads based on the defense and who the ball should go to pre-snap based on the defenses formation. Then they read the defense after the snap, determine where the ball should go, look off the coverage, then deliver the ball to that open window to that read. We designate the #1 WR label to the guy who slides coverages his way, but that's not always the case. Sometimes a different route from someone else will slide coverage. Every play is different.

the_dark_knight
01-06-2012, 08:40 AM
The concept of having a #1 WR, #2 WR etc is a fabricated one by us fans and the media. It really doesn't exist. QBs in the NFL make reads based on the defense and who the ball should go to pre-snap based on the defenses formation. Then they read the defense after the snap, determine where the ball should go, look off the coverage, then deliver the ball to that open window to that read. We designate the #1 WR label to the guy who slides coverages his way, but that's not always the case. Sometimes a different route from someone else will slide coverage. Every play is different.

Yes and no. You're right they're going to throw who's open, but the guy who is the primary read on the most plays is your #1 WR. It's media, but it's not just media, you'll hear players talk about it to. There's a reason teams will give up what they will to ensure they have a "#1" WR, and people every year are falling all over themselves to try to find them if they don't have them.

That's a different story though.

I do appreciate the friendly conversation with you guys, much nicer than anything I've found in the Falcons team forum, heady people who can have a good conversation without name calling and trolling people, it's nice.

I'd like to see some of what you guys think about the matchups on Sunday, obviously you're rooting for your team to win, as am I, but are you thinking that with your pass rush coming into it's own against 2 poor offensive lines that now they're going to be as dominant as 2007? Not to say that they don't have everything they need to do that, but the media is playing that angle up big time right now. At least on ESPN everything I've heard is how your front 4 is just going to dominate the Falcons OL.

Fun fact, in the last 13 games, the Atlanta Falcons OL has given up just 13 sacks. At the beginning of the year they were abysmal, but after week 3, they really tightened up. I'm confident in our OL, Jared Allen sack king was completely shut out against the Falcons. Nothing, not even on the stat sheet. So we have the horses to shut anyone down, not that I expect that type of performance, but I'm hopeful for a high quality performance out of our OL.

Rosebud
01-06-2012, 09:08 AM
Most vet QBs don't have a primary read unless they see a blitz coming pre-snap where they'll adjust to have a primary blitz better. For the most part it's only young QBs who can't yet read defenses very well who need to have a set of reads that they need to go through. A vet QB like Eli reads the D before the play, which is when he puts together his progression of who he anticipates to be most likely to get open and then when the play starts he scans the D to compare to what he predicted and delivers the ball where he can. He's not going out there thinking that well on this play Cruz is going to be my #1 read so I gotta see what's up with him once the play starts, if he's not getting open than I move to Nicks, then Ballard, etc. That's something teams do with young QBs to keep things simple for them.

Teams need playmakers at WR and a lot of “#1s” are big time playmakers, which is why they’re so valued. But if you’ve got multiple high caliber weapons you don’t need one of them to be the #1, especially when they’re as similarly talented as Nicks and Cruz, or White and Jones will be in a year or two for you guys. I’d even argue the idea that one of your WRs has to be your #1 is counterproductive when you have multiple guys who are big time weapons, because focusing on having a guy who’s a #1 could lead you to forcing the ball to them, even when the coverage gives a much better shot with your other guys. Sure teams with no weapons desperately want that guy who will force coverages to adjust to him to open up the more mediocre guys they have while also being able to beat that additional attention often enough to keep it on him even if the team is cutting the D up with those lesser guys. That’s what made Randy Moss so valuable, the man just changed coverages like no other. But if you’ve got two guys who can draw that extra coverage and beat it, the idea of having a #1 is pointless. IMO #1 WRs, with rare exception, only exist on teams that don’t have deep receiving corps and so clearly have one guy who’s really good while the rest are mediocre are worse, especially in the age of spread offenses where teams play with 3 or more WRs on the field a lot, since teams can’t get away with only having one stud because they’re only going to throw the ball 25-30 times a game like they used to. The game right now dictates that teams be able to pass the ball as a foundation of their offense and if you’re going to excel at that you need multiple studs, but what you don’t need is a “#1”

I’d say that none of us has any clue what’ll happen in this game. Perry Fewell has been pretty terrible most of the season with a couple exceptions, first Iggles game, Pats game, Jets and Cowboys down the stretch. Now the fact that two of his “good” games came consecutively before the playoffs gives us hope that he’s given up on the “rush 3 drop 7 and make someone stick their thumb up their ass” D. As he’s avoided bringing no pressure more and has even pressured up the middle. I mean he’s even started to work some twists and stunts back into things and we didn’t do that with our lineman for whole games this year. So we have no clue what to expect from the D other than JPP being a monster and Corey Webster continuing to quietly have another top 10 season. Whether we’ll stop the run, bring pressure and cover the middle of the field is a completely unknown factor.

On offense I actually think our running game might get going since it’s been gradually improving the past few weeks and Bradshaw’s been able to build some momentum, but it’s our passing attack and Eli that’ll carry us and while I like a number of your pieces I think both Cruz and Nicks have matchups that they can burn one on one. So I think this game will come down to execution (Nicks better not drop any long TDs) and who has the ball last since I trust Eli completely to drive down the field for a game winning score against your D, and have zero trust in our D preventing Matt Ryan from doing the same.

the_dark_knight
01-06-2012, 09:22 AM
That's the thing, most vet QBs don't have a primary read unless they see a blitz coming pre-snap where they'll adjust to have a primary blitz better. For the most part it's only young QBs who can't yet read defenses very well who need to have a set of reads that they need to go through. A vet QB like Eli reads the D before the play, which is when he puts together his progression of who he anticipates to be most likely to get open and then when the play starts he scans the D to compare to what he predicted and delivers the ball where he can. He's not going out there thinking that well on this play Cruz is going to be my #1 read so I gotta see what's up with him once the play starts, if he's not getting open than I move to Nicks, then Ballard, etc. That's something teams do with young QBs to keep things simple for them.

Right, I understand that, I mean I get to watch one of the best in the league at presnap reads week in and week out. But they still have to start their reads somewhere, they go through a progression for sure.

Rosebud
01-06-2012, 09:32 AM
Right, I understand that, I mean I get to watch one of the best in the league at presnap reads week in and week out. But they still have to start their reads somewhere, they go through a progression for sure.

Damn your ninja quoting!

Our Passing game is heavily predicated on Option and choice routes from the WRs which means that the play isn’t really set until everyone has read the D so it’s the D which is everyone’s primary read. That’s why you see so many passes where Eli’s throwing one route and the receiver is running a completely different one, while Mario is the biggest culprit in this Nicks has similar problems sometimes. So there is no really primary read until the play is underway and both eli and the receivers have adjusted their pre-snap reads. Then depending on what route combinations the coverage dictates Eli will have a different primary read.

the_dark_knight
01-06-2012, 10:58 AM
Damn your ninja quoting!

Our Passing game is heavily predicated on Option and choice routes from the WRs which means that the play isn’t really set until everyone has read the D so it’s the D which is everyone’s primary read. That’s why you see so many passes where Eli’s throwing one route and the receiver is running a completely different one, while Mario is the biggest culprit in this Nicks has similar problems sometimes. So there is no really primary read until the play is underway and both eli and the receivers have adjusted their pre-snap reads. Then depending on what route combinations the coverage dictates Eli will have a different primary read.

lol, my bad! Haha

That's cool, yeah I'm learning quite a few things about you guys from your posters, that seems like an offense that is really going to give our defense fits. Having weatherspoon out there is going to be big for us, and ultimately it's going to come down to can you guys block Abe, can Edwards get some pass rush going, and can anyone stop Babs from getting at Eli up the middle. Or, from the other side do we have anyone who can actually make some plays from the DL and not give Eli a lot of time back there to get into that flow.

I really sort of fear Jacobs in this game, he's a monster, and if he gets mad and downhill, scary thought, we're going to have to get him before he gets going and make him take false steps if we want to be able to stop him. Bradshaw is going to get his, but if we can make you mostly 1 dimensional it'll go a long way in giving us any chance at disrupting your offense.

The Falcons defense has the players to make it happen, but not the coordinator to make it happen consistently. Going to be one of those games that I'm pretty nervous about going in, and hoping that BVG has something stored down in his BVDs to break out for the playoffs. I like Grimes vs Cruz, and I like Franks vs Nicks, I don't like Dunta vs Nicks. I actually don't like Dunta vs anyone, so I hope he proves me wrong cause I expect to see a lot of you guys trying to get Cruz vs Robinson to exploit him.

Giantsfan1080
01-06-2012, 12:23 PM
Everyone is probable for Sunday except for Herzlich who has been ruled out.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-06-2012, 12:26 PM
A lot of good posts here. Just got home from the hospital so I will add my two cents.

Yes and no. You're right they're going to throw who's open, but the guy who is the primary read on the most plays is your #1 WR. It's media, but it's not just media, you'll hear players talk about it to. There's a reason teams will give up what they will to ensure they have a "#1" WR, and people every year are falling all over themselves to try to find them if they don't have them.



That's not always true. It all depends on two things. One being the concept of the play. For example, vertical stretch, horizontal stretch, or high/low. Another is the defense being played.

The "# 1" WR isn't always the primary read. You create the progression based on the concept of the play. You can always have a coverage read based on a certain position too. The # 1 WR may be nothing more than window dressing, which affectively used to take the top off the coverage.

So that's not always true. It depends on the concept of what you're trying to run.

Why would you put Grimes, your best CB on our inside guy? Who gets Mario and Nicks? I am not worried about Abe. I am familiar with him with the Jets. That seems like a decade ago. Abe is old, I am not worried about him. We go against Ware, Babin, Cole, Kerrigan, and Orapo 2 X a year. I am not worried about an injury prone older DE. Let him Jacobs chip him, and knock him on his butt.

You guys need a pass rush or else it's going to be a long day. However, I hate Fewell and he is terrible! If he stinks, then we will have a long day! LOL.

the_dark_knight
01-06-2012, 12:59 PM
A lot of good posts here. Just got home from the hospital so I will add my two cents.




That's not always true. It all depends on two things. One being the concept of the play. For example, vertical stretch, horizontal stretch, or high/low. Another is the defense being played.

The "# 1" WR isn't always the primary read. You create the progression based on the concept of the play. You can always have a coverage read based on a certain position too. The # 1 WR may be nothing more than window dressing, which affectively used to take the top off the coverage.

So that's not always true. It depends on the concept of what you're trying to run.

Why would you put Grimes, your best CB on our inside guy? Who gets Mario and Nicks? I am not worried about Abe. I am familiar with him with the Jets. That seems like a decade ago. Abe is old, I am not worried about him. We go against Ware, Babin, Cole, Kerrigan, and Orapo 2 X a year. I am not worried about an injury prone older DE. Let him Jacobs chip him, and knock him on his butt.

You guys need a pass rush or else it's going to be a long day. However, I hate Fewell and he is terrible! If he stinks, then we will have a long day! LOL.
Right, if you read back before that I was commenting the fact that the #1 guy is the one who is the primary read most often, not every time. I get that there isn't a constant progression it'd be too easy to play defense.

As far as not being afraid of Abe, that's just foolish, I promise you if you ignore him, he'll destroy you. Single handedly he can destroy anyone he wants, injury prone is very very old news, he's been exceptionally healthy in Atlanta except his first year here. He got a new trainer who helped him build his core and it's really improved his overall durability.

I agree we need pass rush from elsewhere, and you guys do face some pretty nasty pass rushers throughout the year, but you don't face many people on Abe's level. There just aren't many out there, he's had a pretty down year, but lately he's been exploding, and anyone who knows, knows sacks come in bunches. You guys have had 11 in 2 games, against 2 pretty mediocre offensive lines, but still they come in waves like that. Abe was named defensive player of the week not long ago for having 3.5 sacks and a forced fumble and multiple other TFL.

A major part of why Abe's stats are down are his snaps are down. In the regular season the Falcons run a deep rotation, where they're pulling him off the field 1/2 the defensive snaps. That won't happen in the playoffs, same with Edwards, those 2 will be on the field a lot more often and you'll see a lot more of them. Even with limited snaps he saw 9.5 sacks and 4 FFs. Had he played just 75% of the snaps you're talking about 13+ sacks and another great year for Abe. Don't overlook him, you can scoff at Edwards and his wishy washyness, and you can say we need more than just Abe to step up, but to say that you're going to handle Abe with someone like Jacobs chipping him is a joke. Abe is doubled on nearly every play, if not doubled and chipped and still puts out production.

Don't sleep on Lawrence Sidbury either. In extremely limited action he came up with 11 tackles and 4 sacks, and I'd be shocked if he even had 50 pass rush snaps on the season. The guy can really get after the QB and provides a nice set of fresh legs for Abe. The DC for the Falcons is pretty much a failure and hasn't made use of him to the level I think he should, but putting a lineup of Sid + Abe + Babs + Edwards at DT *SHOULD* be able to get some pressure for in obvious pass rush situations.

BaLLiN
01-06-2012, 01:07 PM
Having weatherspoon out there is going to be big for us, and ultimately it's going to come down to can you guys block Abe, can Edwards get some pass rush going, and can anyone stop Babs from getting at Eli up the middle. Or, from the other side do we have anyone who can actually make some plays from the DL and not give Eli a lot of time back there to get into that flow.

I really sort of fear Jacobs in this game, he's a monster, and if he gets mad and downhill, scary thought, we're going to have to get him before he gets going and make him take false steps if we want to be able to stop him. Bradshaw is going to get his, but if we can make you mostly 1 dimensional it'll go a long way in giving us any chance at disrupting your offense.

The Falcons defense has the players to make it happen, but not the coordinator to make it happen consistently. Going to be one of those games that I'm pretty nervous about going in, and hoping that BVG has something stored down in his BVDs to break out for the playoffs. I like Grimes vs Cruz, and I like Franks vs Nicks, I don't like Dunta vs Nicks. I actually don't like Dunta vs anyone, so I hope he proves me wrong cause I expect to see a lot of you guys trying to get Cruz vs Robinson to exploit him.

Our linebackers aren't as terrible in this new scheme that Fewell is developing, but they are not up to the level of your linebackers I feel. Spoon was my favorite player in that draft (2010). I did a comparison to Jon Beason and they were almost identical players. The only difference is Spoon is more adept in pass coverage and Beason is better versus the run. Anyway, I knew he was going to be good, and him and Lofton are both tackling machines. I don't think either is really good at blitzing, at least not from what I've seen.

This likely means that most of your pressure will have to come from your front 4, and although the Giants's OL has been inconsistent, I would rather pick the giants in the DL vs OL battle for both sides of the ball.

Grimes kindof scares me. He's soo fluid and athletic, good ball skills, he's just short. Dunta, meh, he's above average. Decoud and Moore are quietly becoming one of the better young safety duo's in the league. I've never seen franks so I can't really give any input there. As far as our DB's, Webster is very good and consistent, i think he'll do a pretty good job on White. However Ross is terrible, he just doesn't handle strong receivers well (or it seems any receiver lately). Amukamara in man coverage I would be much more comfortable with, but I doubt that will happen. Our safeties are probably more valuable to us due to their ability to do a wide range of things such as play nickel or "bison" linebacker, nickelback, and play a joker-type role like Rolle did last week.

Wide receiver-wise I think it is pretty even, maybe giving the giants a little edge if Manningham plays. Julio has shown he can be a huge threat with that speed and physicality, and Roddy has had a tough season but still produced. Douglas is underrated and underutilized in your offense I feel, he really could be an X-factor in all of this. That said, I think it is pretty even. Both teams have playmakers on the outside, and at least 3 viable options.

Tightends should not even be remotely close. HOF vs. ? FB is interesting, from a run blocking perspective Mughelli is clearly superior, but passcatching-wise I am willing to say Hynoski is about as valuable. If Snelling plays some FB, then that's a different story (run-blocking would be both average). Obvious advantage to Atlanta in both though.

QB- Giants
RB- slight advantage Atlanta
OL- even
ST- no clue, prob even or adv atlanta


Overall, everything is pretty close. (I realize I didn't break everything down)

Giantsfan1080
01-06-2012, 01:29 PM
JPP All Pro 1st team. Cruz All Pro 2nd team.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-06-2012, 01:36 PM
Right, if you read back before that I was commenting the fact that the #1 guy is the one who is the primary read most often, not every time. I get that there isn't a constant progression it'd be too easy to play defense.

As far as not being afraid of Abe, that's just foolish, I promise you if you ignore him, he'll destroy you. Single handedly he can destroy anyone he wants, injury prone is very very old news, he's been exceptionally healthy in Atlanta except his first year here. He got a new trainer who helped him build his core and it's really improved his overall durability.

I agree we need pass rush from elsewhere, and you guys do face some pretty nasty pass rushers throughout the year, but you don't face many people on Abe's level. There just aren't many out there, he's had a pretty down year, but lately he's been exploding, and anyone who knows, knows sacks come in bunches. You guys have had 11 in 2 games, against 2 pretty mediocre offensive lines, but still they come in waves like that. Abe was named defensive player of the week not long ago for having 3.5 sacks and a forced fumble and multiple other TFL.

A major part of why Abe's stats are down are his snaps are down. In the regular season the Falcons run a deep rotation, where they're pulling him off the field 1/2 the defensive snaps. That won't happen in the playoffs, same with Edwards, those 2 will be on the field a lot more often and you'll see a lot more of them. Even with limited snaps he saw 9.5 sacks and 4 FFs. Had he played just 75% of the snaps you're talking about 13+ sacks and another great year for Abe. Don't overlook him, you can scoff at Edwards and his wishy washyness, and you can say we need more than just Abe to step up, but to say that you're going to handle Abe with someone like Jacobs chipping him is a joke. Abe is doubled on nearly every play, if not doubled and chipped and still puts out production.

Don't sleep on Lawrence Sidbury either. In extremely limited action he came up with 11 tackles and 4 sacks, and I'd be shocked if he even had 50 pass rush snaps on the season. The guy can really get after the QB and provides a nice set of fresh legs for Abe. The DC for the Falcons is pretty much a failure and hasn't made use of him to the level I think he should, but putting a lineup of Sid + Abe + Babs + Edwards at DT *SHOULD* be able to get some pressure for in obvious pass rush situations.


I am not just in awe of that pass rush even with Abe. If he comes back and has an amazing game, then I will tip my hat to him and the team and say good show. But I am not scared of him or Edwards or Sidbury, lol. Maybe they may do well, very well in fact. Like I said, if that's the case then props to your team. I'd take my chances with that. And our OL isn't the same as before, so these guys very well may get sacks.

You need that defensive line to play out of their minds to pressure our offense. If that can happen then I can see a blow out. I trust our defense the least specifically Perry freaking fewell!

Giantsfan1080
01-06-2012, 02:32 PM
Haha Cruz turned down Dancing with the Stars.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-06-2012, 03:07 PM
Now I know why Mario runs the wrong routes! They have not labeled! Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!

See for yourselves!

http://tecmosb.com/Images/Man%20vs%20Cpu%20Playbook.gif

the_dark_knight
01-06-2012, 03:52 PM
I am not just in awe of that pass rush even with Abe. If he comes back and has an amazing game, then I will tip my hat to him and the team and say good show. But I am not scared of him or Edwards or Sidbury, lol. Maybe they may do well, very well in fact. Like I said, if that's the case then props to your team. I'd take my chances with that. And our OL isn't the same as before, so these guys very well may get sacks.

You need that defensive line to play out of their minds to pressure our offense. If that can happen then I can see a blow out. I trust our defense the least specifically Perry freaking fewell!

I'm with you on that for the most part and I would be confident in my team to, as I am. But if I knew I had Abe coming I would be doing anything but dismissing him. He's an absolute monster and he's really turned it on the 2nd half and even more late in the season. Much like your DL has improved over the last few weeks, ATL has done the same, just not to the same level.

We started just slacking against Tampa, if our defense plays with that intensity they did for the first quarter before we started pulling starters, I trust that against any team, anywhere. I know the Bucs are horrible, but our defense took them out of everything they wanted to do, then we started sitting starters. I just hope they don't have a hangover after only playing 1 quarter this week, like they did with having 11 days off before playing the Stains.

Either way here's to a good game, and I think we've both got reasons to be optimistic.

BaLLiN
01-07-2012, 09:21 PM
David Diehl said on NFLN that the best starting 5 OLmen were playing now, does anyone believe this?

Giantsfan1080
01-07-2012, 10:52 PM
David Diehl said on NFLN that the best starting 5 OLmen were playing now, does anyone believe this?

I do. I like Petrus a lot but Boothe has been sexy. Baas has also been way above average ever since the 1st quarter of the Jets game. We are peaking.

BaLLiN
01-08-2012, 09:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO4tIrjBDkk

the_dark_knight
01-08-2012, 10:21 AM
Good luck and a clean game today fellas!

BaLLiN
01-08-2012, 10:39 AM
Brent Grimes out, wow that changes a lot

NY+Giants=NYG
01-08-2012, 10:40 AM
Yeah that's a big time kick in the balls! Now what? Who covers who?

BaLLiN
01-08-2012, 10:41 AM
Yeah that's a big time kick in the balls! Now what? Who covers who?

I am guessing Dunta on Cruz, Owens/Franks on Nicks, the other one will be covering Manningham. This is a game that Barden should come in and dominate, him and Manningham will have very favorable matchups.

BaLLiN
01-08-2012, 10:43 AM
nevermind, Barden is inactive?

NY+Giants=NYG
01-08-2012, 10:47 AM
I am guessing Dunta on Cruz, Owens/Franks on Nicks, the other one will be covering Manningham. This is a game that Barden should come in and dominate, him and Manningham will have very favorable matchups.

That's a HUGE blow! And their pass rush isn't like ours. If Eli gets time, look for him to pick that defense apart!

Malaka
01-08-2012, 10:48 AM
Yeah just saw that Barden is inactive, hell I'll trade Barden being out for Grimes being out any time. That's just the way I'm seeing it.

BaLLiN
01-08-2012, 11:20 AM
Yeah just saw that Barden is inactive, hell I'll trade Barden being out for Grimes being out any time. That's just the way I'm seeing it.

obviously, but Barden needs to come forward sometime soon, his height is valuable.

the_dark_knight
01-08-2012, 11:48 AM
You won't see Robinson on Cruz, you're going to see guys keep their sides, that's how it runs normally anyway. But yeah, that hurts a lot. Thankfully Franks has been playing extremely well, he manned up Calvin and was in great position the entire game.

the_dark_knight
01-08-2012, 11:54 AM
Weather seems good today, that wind isn't bad at all. I don't think that favors either team to be honest, should be a fantastic game!

dunagan15
01-08-2012, 02:34 PM
I thought the Falcons were supposed to be playing a game today at yalls place? Hmmm maybe I missed it, didnt see them there

Damix
01-08-2012, 03:02 PM
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOO

NY+Giants=NYG
01-08-2012, 03:22 PM
Great win! I thought it would be like this. Our pass rush is better than their pass rush. I'll take our WRs over their CB. Grimes gone hurt them. They are a finesse team and once they got punched in the mouth, they wanted no part. We just pushed them around once we settled in.

Earlier, they came out and played well, but once things changed, they really like dejected.

BaLLiN
01-08-2012, 03:28 PM
Fewell was good for the most part, Gilbride was terrible at first, but I loved the misdirections. He got the linebackers overrunning the plays and took advantage of the space they no longer occupied.

Giantsfan1080
01-08-2012, 05:08 PM
Remember in preseason when BBD was worried about Eli the most? Whooopsies.

scottyboy
01-08-2012, 05:12 PM
it's funny to look back at how wrong we are sometimes haha. wish the old thread didn't mysteriously disappear :/

Giantsfan1080
01-08-2012, 05:12 PM
it's funny to look back at how wrong we are sometimes haha. wish the old thread didn't mysteriously disappear :/

Wrong is one thing but he was epically wrong.

scottyboy
01-08-2012, 05:15 PM
Wrong is one thing but he was epically wrong.

hahah yes, he was about as wrong as you can be. But we still love him.
also, Chase Blackburn is awesome. the whole D played unreal today. Very impressive

the_dark_knight
01-08-2012, 05:16 PM
Congrats guys good luck from here on out. Horrible game by Mike Mularkey, and just absolutely well played by you guys.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-08-2012, 05:29 PM
Defense was awesome today! I'm starting to build some faith in our teams chances in the next round as well! Maybe, just maybe we have a chance at Lambeau!

NY+Giants=NYG
01-08-2012, 05:36 PM
Congrats guys good luck from here on out. Horrible game by Mike Mularkey, and just absolutely well played by you guys.

Thanks! Sorry things didn't go well.

OSUGiants17
01-08-2012, 05:41 PM
I love it! I remember at the beginning of the year predicting that even though we were riddled with injuries we would start off 7-1(ended up being 6-2...close enough) and finishing anywhere from 9-7 to 11-5 in the playoffs and my family and friends all doubted me. Look at us now! All the fair-weather fans are back on the band-wagon and we're headed to Lambeau lol. In the words of Bart Scott "CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!"

Giantsfan1080
01-08-2012, 05:52 PM
This win was already over the top for me. Great Giants year and if we give GB a game then it'll be awesome. What a great year with more ups and downs than I remember.

J-Mike88
01-08-2012, 08:25 PM
You guys really surprise me how little confidence you seem to have in your team.

I can't figure out why either.

You're one of few teams who have won a Super Bowl recently.
You have the same coach, QB, and general nucleus of that team, but I believe you are actually better now at WR and the DL.

Pierre-Paul is a lot better than Strahan was in 08.

Hakeem is as good as Plaxico was (except the game Plax molested Al Harris), and Victor Cruz is phenomenal as well.
Super Mario is stepping up now.

The D-line is great and seems healthier than ever, magically.

Our defense sucks cockass.
We made Legarrette Blount look great this year, made Kyle Orton look like Joe Montana, and you remember Eli's last-minute drive against us in week 13... he marched down the field when he needed to, and even got the 2-pt PAT.

Eli and Jacobs and Bradshaw have eliminated us there before.... they're gonna be confident as hell.

I see the early Vegas line is Packers by 8 1/2. I will be taking the Giants + the 8 1/2 for as much as I can get into my Bodog account before that line goes down.

This game is a pick em IMO.

scottyboy
01-08-2012, 08:29 PM
You guys really surprise me how little confidence you seem to have in your team.

I can't figure out why either.

You're one of few teams who have won a Super Bowl recently.
You have the same coach, QB, and general nucleus of that team, but I believe you are actually better now at WR and the DL.

Pierre-Paul is a lot better than Strahan was in 08.

Hakeem is as good as Plaxico was (except the game Plax molested Al Harris), and Victor Cruz is phenomenal as well.
Super Mario is stepping up now.

The D-line is great and seems healthier than ever, magically.

Our defense sucks cockass.
We made Legarrette Blount look great this year, made Kyle Orton look like Joe Montana, and you remember Eli's last-minute drive against us in week 13... he marched down the field when he needed to, and even got the 2-pt PAT.

Eli and Jacobs and Bradshaw have eliminated us there before.... they're gonna be confident as hell.

I see the early Vegas line is Packers by 8 1/2. I will be taking the Giants + the 8 1/2 for as much as I can get into my Bodog account before that line goes down.

This game is a pick em IMO.

No, no he's not. Strahan, even in his last year, was an unreal run stopper. Honestly, he may have been a better run stuffer than pass rusher, and I'm not even kidding. JPP is Osi of that year, Tuck is tuck, but an injured former shell, and Osi's not even close to where Strahan was.

Jughead10
01-08-2012, 08:46 PM
No, no he's not. Strahan, even in his last year, was an unreal run stopper. Honestly, he may have been a better run stuffer than pass rusher, and I'm not even kidding. JPP is Osi of that year, Tuck is tuck, but an injured former shell, and Osi's not even close to where Strahan was.

I disagree. JPP is better now than Strahan was that last year. Not that Strahan was bad at all, he just wasn't an all pro. The main difference between the teams is Tuck hasn't been Tuck, although he is getting back to there now. And despite today, we haven't run the ball like we did in 07. Our O-line was SOOOOO much better back then.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-08-2012, 08:53 PM
Not sure how I feel about this game.. I think Saints kill SF, and I know if by somehow we beat GB, I really don't want to play them at NO. I know we have to handle our business, but damn very uphill battle.

We need to get to AR! Thank god this defense is not playing like last time we played. Why couldn't fewell do this from day 1 once injuries set in? We could have beat the skins or Seattle then! I love what he is doing, but does this mean next season, he tries that BS that he did all year?

I want this defense we are running! Also, if he can blitz more that would be good, stop relying on the front 4 all the time. Supplement the pressure!

I dont know, props to Fewell, but just don't like this fit.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
01-08-2012, 10:25 PM
I want a Giants win so bad! Shut the Packers up, please...

I think the Giants have the horses to do it, too. A great D-Line. Good WR's. A great QB. You can run the ball. Do this!

The Giants can make this happen. Just get some tunrovers.

Go NFC East!!!!

Giantsfan1080
01-09-2012, 07:47 AM
I have a lot of confidence in the team but I don't want to short GB here. They were 15-1 so it's not like this is an easy game. Even Vegas made us 9 point dogs and we're playing great football. I think we can giev you a game but I'm just very happy with how everything went to this point. Who knew after the Saints roasted us on MNF that we would come back and get to the divisional round of the playoffs.

Jughead10
01-09-2012, 07:49 AM
Ross needs to play for us to have a chance. I never thought I would say that, but it's true.

Giantsfan1080
01-09-2012, 08:21 AM
Ross needs to play for us to have a chance. I never thought I would say that, but it's true.

Absolutely. We need the most depth at CB going against the Packers. Hopefully Jennings isn't 100%.

bigbluedefense
01-09-2012, 08:45 AM
Wrong is one thing but he was epically wrong.

I love being wrong!

It's just frustrating seeing him stink up the PS every year while other qbs have like 90% completion percentages. This year was especially bad and it made me nervous.

But yeah he's been amazing this season.

Giantsfan1080
01-09-2012, 08:55 AM
I love being wrong!

It's just frustrating seeing him stink up the PS every year while other qbs have like 90% completion percentages. This year was especially bad and it made me nervous.

But yeah he's been amazing this season.

Haha yeah I was drunk last night but I just found it amusing that Eli's had such an amazing year and you were worried about him. So much craziness this year. The whole Coughlin/Eli era has been insane if you really think about it.

bigbluedefense
01-09-2012, 09:01 AM
Haha yeah I was drunk last night but I just found it amusing that Eli's had such an amazing year and you were worried about him. So much craziness this year. The whole Coughlin/Eli era has been insane if you really think about it.

It's been quite a ride. For me, I feel the same way as you do. Anything from here on out is gravy to me. I kind of expected us to beat Atlanta, but from here on out, I'm just enjoying the ride and let's see what happens.

We have a puncher's chance against GB, I expect us to lose, but I'm still rooting as hard as I've ever rooted.

Damix
01-09-2012, 09:18 AM
Nice Monday is a holiday so we can drink during the game. Granted that didn't stop me from drinking yesterday...

Jughead10
01-09-2012, 09:21 AM
Nice Monday is a holiday so we can drink during the game. Granted that didn't stop me from drinking yesterday...

Not everyone has off :( But that WILL NOT stop me from drinking.

Damix
01-09-2012, 09:21 AM
Not everyone has off :( But that WILL NOT stop me from drinking.

Real people have off!

scottyboy
01-09-2012, 09:25 AM
Real people have off!

exactly! classes don't start until Tuesday
...wait, that's not what you meant?

BloodBrother
01-09-2012, 09:30 AM
Absolutely. We need the most depth at CB going against the Packers. Hopefully Jennings isn't 100%.

FWIW, Jennings said he could have been good to go in Week 17, and he DID practice this past week during their bye week with no limitations.

Giantsfan1080
01-09-2012, 10:03 AM
FWIW, Jennings said he could have been good to go in Week 17, and he DID practice this past week during their bye week with no limitations.

Well that's what I figured but I was holding out some hope he was still less than 100%. Oh well.

Giantsfan1080
01-09-2012, 10:04 AM
Nice Monday is a holiday so we can drink during the game. Granted that didn't stop me from drinking yesterday...

I was fine at the tailgate yesterday and then at the stadium everyone started buying my friend and I beers. We were swamped with beer there. I proceeded to sleep and snore on the ride home.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-09-2012, 11:25 AM
Who was worried on the game day thread that I jinxed the team by talking ****?

Balling? Scottyboy? I forgot who it was. See, I know my stuff, I felt like their team couldn't cover our WRs. We got pass rush and they did early on. We adjusted and smacked them.

I also said they stink outside their dome. 11 games in a dome this year, and they gave up during the game. They didn't show any heart what so ever!

They are a finesse team who got punched in the mouth and then a haymaker knocked them out.

BaLLiN
01-09-2012, 01:40 PM
Who was worried on the game day thread that I jinxed the team by talking ****?

Balling? Scottyboy? I forgot who it was. See, I know my stuff, I felt like their team couldn't cover our WRs. We got pass rush and they did early on. We adjusted and smacked them.

I also said they stink outside their dome. 11 games in a dome this year, and they gave up during the game. They didn't show any heart what so ever!

They are a finesse team who got punched in the mouth and then a haymaker knocked them out.

I don't think it was me, but I don't talk **** most of the time. The thing is we really didn't get much passrush, and I think the reason was because they were keeping a back or TE in on a consistent basis. Because of pretty good coverage it made Ryan hold onto the ball for awhile and took a long time for their receivers to get open.

I am glad we are playing the Packers now. As much as they could beat us, they could be the boost to send us all the way. They still have some injuries, I do not care what Greg Jennings said, I've had an MCL injury and been around receivers with the same injury and i know it doesn't feel right, I didn't feel 100%. There are so many other factors, such as the defensive schemes being much better, getting mario back, finding a run game, getting into a groove, having nothing to lose and everything to gain, and JPP has really turned it up.

bigbluedefense
01-09-2012, 03:01 PM
I want a Giants win so bad! Shut the Packers up, please...

I think the Giants have the horses to do it, too. A great D-Line. Good WR's. A great QB. You can run the ball. Do this!

The Giants can make this happen. Just get some tunrovers.

Go NFC East!!!!

It's going to be tough. We have to hope our front really puts some pressure on Rodgers and get some turnovers. I don't see us stopping that offense, our realistic chance is keeping up with them and hopefully creating a turnover or 2, and if Eli can have the ball in his hands with 2 minutes left with a chance to win, then we have a shot.

It's a long shot, but hey, you never know.

You guys really surprise me how little confidence you seem to have in your team.

I can't figure out why either.

You're one of few teams who have won a Super Bowl recently.
You have the same coach, QB, and general nucleus of that team, but I believe you are actually better now at WR and the DL.

Pierre-Paul is a lot better than Strahan was in 08.

Hakeem is as good as Plaxico was (except the game Plax molested Al Harris), and Victor Cruz is phenomenal as well.
Super Mario is stepping up now.

The D-line is great and seems healthier than ever, magically.

Our defense sucks cockass.
We made Legarrette Blount look great this year, made Kyle Orton look like Joe Montana, and you remember Eli's last-minute drive against us in week 13... he marched down the field when he needed to, and even got the 2-pt PAT.

Eli and Jacobs and Bradshaw have eliminated us there before.... they're gonna be confident as hell.

I see the early Vegas line is Packers by 8 1/2. I will be taking the Giants + the 8 1/2 for as much as I can get into my Bodog account before that line goes down.

This game is a pick em IMO.

We have a puncher's chance. You guys are 15-1. We're 9-7. That has to count for something. I'm just happy that we have a chance.

Congrats guys good luck from here on out. Horrible game by Mike Mularkey, and just absolutely well played by you guys.

Good game bro. The Falcons are a solid team, reminds me of the 90s Giants, you guys have a lot of solid talent, you're a couple of pieces away from being a top tier team. Get a couple more playmakers, preferably a DE, some CBs, and a pass catching RB and you're good to go.

scottyboy
01-09-2012, 04:08 PM
i dont even remember if it was me or not. I think I was too busy pleasuring myself to Brian Leonard's 15 yard screen pass in the playoffs. i dont know. Talk **** does worry me, but I was secretly confident going into the Atlanta game.
My dad actually said this yesterday: So glad to have won that and really, going against Green Bay, yeah, we obviously want the win, but we won't be as disappointed if we lose. I kinda agree with him

Rosebud
01-09-2012, 06:03 PM
I'm ******, going into the Atlanta game I figured there was a fair chance of us losing and was fine if we did. Now I really really want us to beat the god damn packers, you guys have no idea how annoying those bastards are in the greater chicagoland area, especially after winning the superbowl last year despite losing the division to the bears. I hate them. Wish of course sucks because even if we knock the packers off, we'll likely have to go into New Orleans where I think we're even more screwed, atlhough them I don't mind losing to. Why couldn't the Lions just win so we could play the 9ers instead?

CDCB14
01-09-2012, 11:51 PM
Hey guys, I live in the northeast so i was having an discussion with one of my friends who is a giants fan. The question was, if you could start a team and you could take Dez or Cruz (with all other positions being equal, same QB, etc.) would would you take?

I want to hear some knowledgable Giants fan give an honest opinion. Thanks.

BaLLiN
01-10-2012, 12:45 AM
Hey guys, I live in the northeast so i was having an discussion with one of my friends who is a giants fan. The question was, if you could start a team and you could take Dez or Cruz (with all other positions being equal, same QB, etc.) would would you take?

I want to hear some knowledgable Giants fan give an honest opinion. Thanks.

Thats really hard, because I feel like Cruz is soo much superior mentally in his game. Dez's physical tools are superior:

Dez Bryant:(pro day)
6'2'' 218 lbs
Arm length: 34"
Hand size: 9 3/4"
40 time: 4.52
Vertical: 38"
Broad Jump: 11'1"
3 Cone: 7.21
Short Shuttle: 4.48
Bench Press: N/A

Victor Cruz:(pro day)
5'11.5" 208 lbs (now listed at 6'1''?)
Arm length:N/A
Hand size:N/A
40 time: 4.47
Vertical: 41.5"
Broad Jump: 10'5''
3 Cone: 7.02
Short Shuttle: 4.29
Bench: 13 reps of 225

Now evaluating all of this, you notice that Cruz is quicker and basically the same speed in 40 yards, but doesn't have the frame that Dez has. He probably runs better routes, getting more separation just due to his quickness and suddenness. Dez however can be a lot more overpowering to a DB, and can use his frame to shield the ball. I think most people would say Dez without doubt, but there is an argument to be made for Cruz. It depends on my offensive style, my personnel to complement him, and especially my quarterback. But I do think that Dez would be the more favored option.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-10-2012, 09:02 AM
I don't think it was me, but I don't talk **** most of the time. The thing is we really didn't get much passrush, and I think the reason was because they were keeping a back or TE in on a consistent basis. Because of pretty good coverage it made Ryan hold onto the ball for awhile and took a long time for their receivers to get open.

I am glad we are playing the Packers now. As much as they could beat us, they could be the boost to send us all the way. They still have some injuries, I do not care what Greg Jennings said, I've had an MCL injury and been around receivers with the same injury and i know it doesn't feel right, I didn't feel 100%. There are so many other factors, such as the defensive schemes being much better, getting mario back, finding a run game, getting into a groove, having nothing to lose and everything to gain, and JPP has really turned it up.



Oh. damn, can't remember who it was! I wasn't talking **** though. I was just saying what I thought. I didn't think they could beat us away. I was confident.

But first series or maybe after the safety someone got all annoyed, lol. Who was it? Step up! Step up, I say!

bigbluedefense
01-10-2012, 09:28 AM
I'd probably go with Dez. But I want to see Dez really grow next year. He's gotta work on his game some.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2012, 09:33 AM
Btw guys, for those who DVR'd the game, go back and watch JPP. He dominated. His bullrush is nasty.

Also we had some serious pass protection issues but Eli really did an amazing job moving around in the pocket and creating time, and throwing off his back foot or on the run.

That to me is the biggest difference in Eli this year. His ability to throw downfield accurately on the run or off his backfoot has been amazing this year.

Giantsfan1080
01-10-2012, 09:38 AM
Btw guys, for those who DVR'd the game, go back and watch JPP. He dominated. His bullrush is nasty.

Also we had some serious pass protection issues but Eli really did an amazing job moving around in the pocket and creating time, and throwing off his back foot or on the run.

That to me is the biggest difference in Eli this year. His ability to throw downfield accurately on the run or off his backfoot has been amazing this year.

I'll probably go back and watch the game tonight. I love going to the games but from where I sit it's so hard to watch the interior play of the game.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2012, 09:48 AM
I'll probably go back and watch the game tonight. I love going to the games but from where I sit it's so hard to watch the interior play of the game.

Where do you sit? I have goalline(higher up though) seats so I kind of get the eye in the sky view.

I didn't go to the game though.

Giantsfan1080
01-10-2012, 09:51 AM
Where do you sit? I have goalline(higher up though) seats so I kind of get the eye in the sky view.

I didn't go to the game though.

Same as you then. Goaline but the second row in the section. I love the seats. The last two games(Cowboys & Falcons) were the two best Giants games I've ever been to. I've been going to games since about 2001.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2012, 09:58 AM
Same as you then. Goaline but the second row in the section. I love the seats. The last two games(Cowboys & Falcons) were the two best Giants games I've ever been to. I've been going to games since about 2001.

Did you get the close up of the Mario TD or the Nicks TD?

Both were amazing.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-10-2012, 10:01 AM
This season has turned out well. I thought it was another **** show, but I am happy that we are peaking now. Let's hope we can get our **** together and beat the Packers. We were close before. Hopefully all hands on deck helps us!

Giantsfan1080
01-10-2012, 10:08 AM
Did you get the close up of the Mario TD or the Nicks TD?

Both were amazing.

Naa I'm on the other side. Section 327.

Jughead10
01-10-2012, 10:16 AM
Naa I'm on the other side. Section 327.

Not for both. You saw the Mario TD.

Giantsfan1080
01-10-2012, 10:21 AM
Not for both. You saw the Mario TD.

I thought it was going the other way. I wasn't in my seat at the time.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2012, 10:33 AM
I thought it was going the other way. I wasn't in my seat at the time.

Perfect timing huh? Haha, you must have been like dammit.

Jughead10
01-10-2012, 10:36 AM
Perfect timing huh? Haha, you must have been like dammit.

Haha. I missed the 99 yard Cruz TD against the Jets. That was the worst. On our own 1 yard line, I thought I could piss and get back before we got into scoring territory.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2012, 10:37 AM
Haha. I missed the 99 yard Cruz TD against the Jets. That was the worst. On our own 1 yard line, I thought I could piss and get back before we got into scoring territory.

Every time i went to a game and Eli threw a bomb pass headed our way, it was dropped. Im like wtf, I have the worst luck.

scottyboy
01-10-2012, 10:39 AM
i think we all know the reason for our late surge...
Chase. Blackburn

BaLLiN
01-10-2012, 07:15 PM
i think we all know the reason for our late surge...
Chase. Blackburn

Rocky Bernard has been doing pretty well. I dont know why, but one time i saw him in coverage lol

Edit: looked at the game again, and I am pretty impressed with our OL. They're starting to gel. Also Boothe is probably our best OL atm, didnt think id ever say that.

Jughead10
01-11-2012, 09:24 AM
Sounds like Ross is good to go. Might not have actually been a concussion after all. This is really good news.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2012, 10:41 AM
Sounds like Ross is good to go. Might not have actually been a concussion after all. This is really good news.

Yup he's been cleared to practice. We need all hands on deck for this one.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2012, 10:41 AM
We should extend Chase and Tolly. Poor tolly always playing on 1 year deals. Give him a multiyear deal for once! I like those 2 guys.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2012, 10:58 AM
What's the difference? It's not like the contracts are guaranteed anyway.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2012, 11:05 AM
Money, and in the back of your mind you feel you have some sort of security.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2012, 11:07 AM
Money, and in the back of your mind you feel you have some sort of security.

Chase was a FA until Week 13 of this year. No need to pay them a lot or give them two year deals.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2012, 11:09 AM
Chase was a FA until Week 13 of this year. No need to pay them a lot or give them two year deals.

They deserve it with their play. After this season, I wouldn't mind rewarding them with decent contracts. Both are hard working guys. I would like to see it.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2012, 11:14 AM
I like them both a lot also but don't get your hopes up. There's a better chance both are not even on the team next year than them getting 2 year deals.

scottyboy
01-11-2012, 11:51 AM
**** that! give them 5 year deals! don't ever let them have a chance at leaving!

Jughead10
01-11-2012, 11:55 AM
**** that! give them 5 year deals! don't ever let them have a chance at leaving!

Didn't Blackburn have a 4 year deal at one point?

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2012, 12:07 PM
Didn't Blackburn have a 4 year deal at one point?

Yes he did. It was a 4 year extension so technically he had a 6 year deal I believe.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2012, 12:49 PM
Let's not get caught up in the moment. I love Chase, and hope he never puts on another uniform, but spending money on both of these guys would be foolish.

Giving out bad contracts gets you in cap hell. Can't do it.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2012, 12:52 PM
GB's oline is finally healthy too. Another hurdle for us. Hopefully they have some rust for not playing together for awhile.

Finley is going to be the key for us. He had a lot of drops vs us last time. I doubt he'll drop as many, we gotta do a better job of covering him. Hopefully we man up Boley on him and let Jacquan cover the underneath flats, last game we had Boley on the flats and Williams on Finley.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2012, 01:05 PM
When was the last time a TE killed us this year? I feel like we've actually done a very good job limiting TE production.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2012, 01:08 PM
With a healthy Boley, I don't think anyone ever has. But Finley could have killed us if he just caught the ball. He had a lot of drops on us.

princefielder28
01-11-2012, 01:11 PM
With a healthy Boley, I don't think anyone ever has. But Finley could have killed us if he just caught the ball. He had a lot of drops on us.

He's had alot of drops against everyone not named the Chicago Bears haha