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NY+Giants=NYG
09-16-2012, 11:00 AM
If you ask Bucs fans most of them would rather Dotson start... Trust me. Trueblood is worse in pass protection than Dotson. Dotson has played before btw.

Oh ok, then faulty information posted on our MB. Maybe first NFL start? Or has he started before too?

Well either way Dotson will get his test today.

Caddy
09-16-2012, 11:03 AM
Oh ok, then faulty information posted on our MB. Maybe first NFL start? Or has he started before too?

Well either way Dotson will get his test today.

He has been a primary back-up the last 3 years, played in 20+ games and started a couple. He is former basketball player turned OT prospect. He is super athletic, but raw. That said, Trueblood sucks so Bucs fans are hoping he keeps True out of the starting team.

BaLLiN
09-16-2012, 11:08 AM
He has been a primary back-up the last 3 years, played in 20+ games and started a couple. He is former basketball player turned OT prospect. He is super athletic, but raw. That said, Trueblood sucks so Bucs fans are hoping he keeps True out of the starting team.

I still would expect to see the usual run calls though, I wouldn't want Tuck vs. a backup

Legacy
09-16-2012, 11:36 AM
He has been a primary back-up the last 3 years, played in 20+ games and started a couple. He is former basketball player turned OT prospect. He is super athletic, but raw. That said, Trueblood sucks so Bucs fans are hoping he keeps True out of the starting team.
Dotson got a chance to push Trueblood out of the starting lineup permanently last year and blew it.

That was for Coach Rah Rah McChestbump, though, and it's fair to say the entire team blew it last year, so I guess we'll see how Dotson does with some real coaches.

Even if Dotson plays well, I still think we need to draft a RT to fix the situation there.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-16-2012, 02:15 PM
JPP and Andre Brown came to play. Brown has played well!

Caddy
09-16-2012, 03:37 PM
Good game ladies. Worth staying up from 3-630am for!

Bucs147
09-16-2012, 03:57 PM
Our Offense became way too predictable in the 2nd half. We had a 14 points lead and chose to run every 1st and 2nd down, even if you guys stack the box and waited for the run. I thought our defense played well, until they got tired, which I blame on the offense for what seemed like 5 or so 3 and outs in a row. Our defense is based on guys being all over the field and we have a lack of depth, so it's not that surprising seing guys getting tired. I think we have everything we need to have an above average passing attack. I mean, when we were playing from behind those last 5 minutes, our passing game looked good.

Still, good game guys.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-16-2012, 04:27 PM
Our Offense became way too predictable in the 2nd half. We had a 14 points lead and chose to run every 1st and 2nd down, even if you guys stack the box and waited for the run. I thought our defense played well, until they got tired, which I blame on the offense for what seemed like 5 or so 3 and outs in a row. Our defense is based on guys being all over the field and we have a lack of depth, so it's not that surprising seing guys getting tired. I think we have everything we need to have an above average passing attack. I mean, when we were playing from behind those last 5 minutes, our passing game looked good.

Still, good game guys.

That's our offense that's why. It's good we were down and had to throw the ball. I wish we threw the ball like that often. Instead, we do that when needed.

I like V. Jackson for you guys! The guy is a beast! We need to clean up a lot of things though. I think pass rush and blitzing will be needed for you guys. I wonder if GS is calling the defensive plays or BS. Hopefully not BS.

Forenci
09-16-2012, 04:49 PM
Also, Schiano can go **** himself. Douche bag.

bucfan12
09-16-2012, 04:54 PM
That's our offense that's why. It's good we were down and had to throw the ball. I wish we threw the ball like that often. Instead, we do that when needed.

I like V. Jackson for you guys! The guy is a beast! We need to clean up a lot of things though. I think pass rush and blitzing will be needed for you guys. I wonder if GS is calling the defensive plays or BS. Hopefully not BS.

Yeah. I'm starting to feel you're pain on that one. It was a good game, but I still feel Sullivan let the foot off the gas. We did it last week too. Hopefully watching Freeman when it counted and needed it, made Sullivan realize the Bucs can move the ball through the air.

We should have had the W, but in the end, Sullivan gave the Giants the opportunity, and the Giants capitalized on them.

Good game and good luck thorughout hte season. Injury free as well of course.

bucfan12
09-16-2012, 04:54 PM
Also, Schiano can go **** himself. Douche bag.

I just saw the replay. It's not as bad as you are indicating. It wasn't a cheap-shot at all. Play til the final whistle. Nothing was cheap.

Forenci
09-16-2012, 04:58 PM
I just saw the replay. It's not as bad as you are indicating. It wasn't a cheap-shot at all. Play til the final whistle. Nothing was cheap.

The game was over and we'd taken a knee.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-16-2012, 05:12 PM
I just saw the replay. It's not as bad as you are indicating. It wasn't a cheap-shot at all. Play til the final whistle. Nothing was cheap.

They all submarined the knees of the OL. The OL raises up in victory formation, so when the DL is going full speed as if to block a kick, they are going low. It's very dangerous and scum bag move. I understand play to whistle, but it's a damn end of the game. Victory formation/kneel down where people shake hands. Running full speed down low with the intensity of a FG block or goal line play is stupid.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-16-2012, 05:18 PM
http://cjzero.com/gifs/EliVFormation.gif






1mRalph Vacchianoþ@RVacchianoNYDN

Tom Coughlin is ticked at Greg Schiano for sending Bucs defenders after Eli Manning as he tries to kneel down at the end of the game.

Ralph Vacchianoþ@RVacchianoNYDN

Asked if he felt that the orders to do that came from Schaino, Coughlin said "The players said it did."


Jane McManus ‏@janesports

Schiano said his team isn't going to quit until the final buzzer and there's nothing dirty about it. #nfl NYG

Mike Garafoloþ@MikeGarafolo

Re: scrum on last play, Snee called Bucs' actions "Busch league." Said they were throwing "helmets into knees."

This is what I'd make it of. Players think you are rising up, and the whole DL crashes low as if they are stopping a 3rd and short or goal line run play.

Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo

Bucs' McCoy on last play: "We do what we're coached. I'll leave it at that."


Jenny Vrentasþ@JennyVrentas

Players upset after they say Bucs line dove at Giants center, guards' knees. Locklear said one of Bucs said it was coach's orders


Jenny Vrentasþ@JennyVrentas

RT @jorgeccastillo: Tuck said what happened on the last play "won't be forgotten." #nyg



http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1192843/coughlolin_medium.gif



New York Giants

Tom Rock
+ Follow

Sean Locklear: "One of the guys said after the play (final play), “It’s a cheap shot, but coach told us to do it.”

"You could look on their faces, it was one of those things where they didn’t want to do it but you do what you’re told," Locklear said. about a minute ago

BigBlueNorwegian
09-16-2012, 05:30 PM
Phew! Intense game! Glad that we pulled it out at the end. Eli, Nicks and Cruz were unstoppable in the second half. Nicks especially beasted all game long, despite Talib holding him on basically every play.

Malaka
09-16-2012, 05:40 PM
Can anyone read Coughlin's lips enough to figure out what he's saying?

scottyboy
09-16-2012, 05:42 PM
anyone else concerned with our total lack of pass rush?

Malaka
09-16-2012, 05:44 PM
anyone else concerned with our total lack of pass rush?

We brought it at the beginning then once we got burned a few times by Jackson, Fewell turned it way down.

I feel like Tuck might be running out of gas.

Stash
09-16-2012, 05:56 PM
Any word on the Bradshaw injury? Is it serious enough that Brown would be worth picking up in fantasy?

bucfan12
09-16-2012, 06:17 PM
Phew! Intense game! Glad that we pulled it out at the end. Eli, Nicks and Cruz were unstoppable in the second half. Nicks especially beasted all game long, despite Talib holding him on basically every play.

Yeah. There were some battles, and some missed calls I'll agree. But you got to let them play sometimes and that's one thing I like about these Replacement Refs. They don't throw the flag too quickly unless it's clearly PI or holding. Nicks destroyed Talib. Talib better get some ice for the next few days. He got worked, abused, etc.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-16-2012, 06:34 PM
Yeah. There were some battles, and some missed calls I'll agree. But you got to let them play sometimes and that's one thing I like about these Replacement Refs. They don't throw the flag too quickly unless it's clearly PI or holding. Nicks destroyed Talib. Talib better get some ice for the next few days. He got worked, abused, etc.

For sure, I agree with you that they should let them play more, objectively speaking. But we've gotten so used to those kinds of holds being called with the regular refs, so I react when they hold as much as Talib did today. But it's a smart thing to do for the Bucs, because the refs didn't call it consistently, so they did the smart thing to try to get an advantage.

The Giants need to be smarter about taking advantage of the replacement refs like that. We're still playing like the regular refs are out there, but you get away with more with these replacement refs.

Giantsfan1080
09-16-2012, 07:07 PM
crazy game.

OSUGiants17
09-16-2012, 09:06 PM
http://nyc.barstoolsports.com/files/2012/09/Cruz2-480x270.jpg

OSUGiants17
09-16-2012, 09:13 PM
Great game to be at, was ****** intense. Cruz back to his normal self, Nicks is a champ and Andre Brown impressed me a lot. Ran hard, determined and that fumble that he turned into 2 yards showed how determined he is. I loved his effort to make the most of his opportunity.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2012, 09:22 AM
I'm not happy and I don't feel good about the Giants right now at all. I'm glad we won the game, but that's all I'm happy about. We noticed several issues yesterday:

1. Our CBs are a major concern. First and foremost, Prince and Hosely need to get healthy and provide a much needed boost. Coe and Tryon suck, and are constantly being exposed in coverage. When you have 2 ducks in coverage, I don't care how good the rest of your defense is, unless you get unreal pressure every snap, you're gonna get exposed. And that's happening right now.

Plus, Corey Webster has taken a step back. I was concerned about this coming into the season bc he's no spring chicken anymore. But he's not playing at the same Corey Webster level we're accustomed to seeing. That's a major problem. We assumed Corey would lock up one side, and we'd just need Prince to hold it down with help on the other side, and our Nickel to be good enough like last year. If Corey can't lock down one side of the field, that changes what we can do defensively and could be a major concern all season.

2. Our pass rush isn't bringing it. The only guy who is bringing heat is JPP. Osi is getting washed out of plays, and Tuck has been nonexistant. That is not good and I don't know what's going on. I have to break down the game and figure out what's happening, but superficially, this is a problem.

3. Tackling. Our tackling sucks. This has been a problem for awhile now and I don't see it getting fixed anytime soon.

4. Our LBs need to make more plays. Boley was great in coverage,but the tackling numbers are disturbing. All our leading tacklers for the game came from the DL. Our LBs need to get their noses dirty and be more aggressive at the LOS. Boley gets swallowed by OLmen too often, Chase is a JAG (a lovable JAG), and Kiwi is not a LB. Just put him on the DL already. Kiwi is an awful tackler, it's so frustrating watching guys constantly slip through his hands.

5. Our OL still blows. Eli is Eli though, so we're ok, but still would like to see improvement.

6. It's obvious that Bradshaw is washed up. It's so bad that I don't want him starting anymore. It's not coincidence that once he left the game we started running the ball effectively. He's slow, he can't cut, he hesitates, he often hits the wrong hole, he dances too much, he's just washed up. Bradshaw is done.

7. Wilson...get your **** together.

8. The 3rd WR needs to emerge asap. Barden sucks. He can't separate to save his life. We need Randle to emerge and contribute right away.

9. Bc of #8, our offense is too heavily dependent on Cruz and Nicks. We can't rely on both of them every week. The formula is simple, if they double Nicks, hit Cruz. If they double Cruz, hit Nicks. That's fine for now, but what's gonna happen when we bump into a team that can double Cruz, and put a lockdown CB on Nicks? Then what?

You know what happens then? Dallas week 1, or the Jets game from last year (more reflective bc we were healthy then). We need that 3rd WR threat to emerge so when you lock 2 guys down, that 3rd guy can expose your coverage. Right now we just have Nicks and Cruz. We need that Mario Manningham type of 3rd threat to emerge or else we're in trouble.

The Pats in the SB had a simple formula that worked against us: Just double both of them, and force Eli to go to the checkdown or 3rd threat all game long. It works. Expect to see a ton of Cover 2 vs us all season long.

The best way to counter this is with a run game that will force them out of that 2 deep look, but right now we don't have that run game, nor do I see us developing it any time soon. So now we need that 3rd WR to emerge or else we're in trouble.

This team needs to improve in all facets of the game asap.

scottyboy
09-17-2012, 09:29 AM
i actually agree with all of that BBD. Martellus right now is our 3rd receiving threat and he's too inconsistent to be it. We've got somethings to really improve. I agree about Kiwi. I think he was fine at LB, but with Osi and tuck non-existant, he might be better off back on the DL. We need pressure badly.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2012, 09:35 AM
Our team has big issues. David D. leaving actually helped the team. I want to see more of Brown, perhaps let him start and let wilson play more. I was thinking about this yesterday, we have no had our past two draft classes impact us.

We need more of our young guys to play and learn. I feel like when a rookie is on our team they have jump through hoops and hurdles to get PT while other teams put their guys in and have them develop that way.

Wilson, R.R. Robinson all are on ice or special teams

2011: Prince, Austin, JJ and Brewer

All 4 are basically not playing. LOL. You cant be successful in the NFL if your draft class isn't contributing! That's VERY alarming! Where are our young guys? Can they actually do more for this team than Fing special teams?! If they are not playing special teams, then the player is inactive!








Pick Player
1.32 David Wilson, RB, Virginia Tech
2.31 Rueben Randle, WR, LSU
3.31 Jayron Hosley, CB, Virginia Tech
4.32 Adrien Robinson, TE, Cincinnati
4.36 Brandon Mosley, OT, Auburn
6.31 Matt McCants, OT, UAB
7.32 Markus Kuhn, DT, North Carolina State







2011
Rnd Name College Note

1 Prince Amukamara Nebraska
2 Marvin Austin North Carolina
3 Jerrel Jernigan Troy
4 James Brewer Indiana
6 Greg Jones Michigan State
6 Tyler Sash Iowa
6 Jacquian Williams South Florida
7 Da'Rel Scott Maryland

2010
Rnd Name College Note

1 Jason Pierre-Paul South Florida
2 Linval Joseph East Carolina
3 Chad Jones LSU
4 Phillip Dillard Nebraska
5 Mitch Petrus Arkansas
6 Adrian Tracy William & Mary
7 Matt Dodge East Carolina





Our OL needs to fix it self and play better. I have no faith in Fewell! How do you put Tyron or Coe in single coverage with NO safety help on 1 on 1?! Vincent burned him. You can't do that!

When we do pass the ball our offense can be lethal! I wish we would pass a lot more. And can we cut down on the drops?! Please! It's amazing how our guys keep dropping the ball.

Rosebud
09-17-2012, 09:46 AM
So I missed the game helping some friends on their shoot, but I'm glad to see we won, the passing game clicked, we still have the moxie to come back even when down big and that the defense is playing craptastic enough to force Fewell to cut his stupid **** out...eventually...

BigBlueNorwegian
09-17-2012, 10:00 AM
I'm not happy and I don't feel good about the Giants right now at all. I'm glad we won the game, but that's all I'm happy about. We noticed several issues yesterday:



I agree with you on the CBs. I am worried about Webster, but I think he will improve as well when Amukamara and Hosley gets up to speed. I think too much pressure is put on him right now, being our only healthy and starting-caliber CB. Tryon sucks ass. His only "pass breakup" was luck more than skill as well.

Pass rush needs to get better, I agree. Hopefully they break out of that funk soon, but I'm not too worried about them. They will show up sooner rather than later. Too talented group of guys not to.

Tackling is poor, yes. But it will improve as the guys get more games. The reason tackling sucks in the early season is because you aren't allowed to practice with pads as much anymore. It will improve by default, I think.

Chase Blackburn needs to be benched though. I've seen enough. Great guy, and he will always be remembered for his contributions to the great Giants teams, but I suspect we have better options riding the pine on the sideline.

Agree on the O-line, on the third reciever and on Wilson.

Forenci
09-17-2012, 10:35 AM
BBD is so negative, haha. I understand being concerned but if Eli doesn't throw three interceptions, this game is probably a blow out. I'm not blaming Eli, I'm just saying it would have been a very different game.

You're right, there are some serious concerns, but some of it is injury related more than anything else. I feel like Randle would be getting more reps if we didn't like to baby our wide outs.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2012, 10:41 AM
BBD is so negative, haha. I understand being concerned but if Eli doesn't throw three interceptions, this game is probably a blow out. I'm not blaming Eli, I'm just saying it would have been a very different game.

You're right, there are some serious concerns, but some of it is injury related more than anything else. I feel like Randle would be getting more reps if we didn't like to baby our wide outs.

I think he has a right to be. I am not happy as well. This team looks to be alseep still. Maybe they think the season has started yet. I think we are much better extending the field, and throwing deep. I hate the routes that across the middle like, digs, and square ins. That when you get guys dropping into those zones and trying to make a play.

Our defense once again is pitiful. Perry Fewell needs to do a much better job. How in the world do you put Tryon or Coe on Jackson inside the 30 yard line with no safety over the top??!?!??!?! Seriously?! What do you expect the end result to be? A TD! Freeman and probably the whole offensive staff upstairs must have had their eyes lite up when they saw that 1 on 1 match up from upstairs.

Forenci
09-17-2012, 10:45 AM
Oh yeah, our defense is awful under Fewell. There's no doubt about that. Hopefully he goes back to basics again.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2012, 10:52 AM
Oh yeah, our defense is awful under Fewell. There's no doubt about that. Hopefully he goes back to basics again.

That's the thing, the defense has been so up and down under him. Up on the road to the Sb win, and down almost all throughout the regular season, which is highlighted by the Philly collapse.

So what's his basics? Even I am not sure... 3 man rushes, and dropping Tuck in coverage? LOL. 3 safety look again? My point is I am not sure what's basics for him. I am just not a fan of him as a DC.

So far under Coughlin, Spags was the only guy I had confidence in. Everyone else from Lewis, Sheridan, and Fewell, I had zero confidence in!

Forenci
09-17-2012, 10:53 AM
That's the thing, the defense has been so up and down under him. Up on the road to the Sb win, and down almost all throughout the regular season, which is highlighted by the Philly collapse.

So what's his basics? Even I am not sure... 3 man rushes, and dropping Tuck in coverage? LOL. 3 safety look again? My point is I am not sure what's basics for him. I am just not a fan of him as a DC.

So far under Coughlin, Spags was the only guy I had confidence in. Everyone else from Lewis, Sheridan, and Fewell, I had zero confidence in!

Well, when I say basics, I mean when he simplified the defense at the end of last year to include more man coverage and less complicated zone defense.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2012, 10:58 AM
Well, when I say basics, I mean when he simplified the defense at the end of last year to include more man coverage and less complicated zone defense.

But that was when his job was possibly on the line. This was after the redskins loss, and before the Jets game. This is where the Fewell job security issue was a hot topic. That's when he adjusted.

Granted we have had injuries, but some of his ideas don't make sense. Like I said before, putting a Tyron/Coe on Jackson with no help over the top is a bone headed move!

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 12:25 PM
There are some very concerning things but I'm far from worried. Barden was open a few plays yesterday and Eli never went that way.

To all the fans booing at halftime, go **** yourselves.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2012, 01:28 PM
I despise Perry Fewell as much as the next guy, but honestly guys, these issues aren't his fault. What is he supposed to do? If he blitzes, Tyron and Coe are 1 on 1 with someone and they'll both get smoked.

If he plays man? They both get smoked. If he plays zone? Our defense isn't good at zone and guess what? Whatever zone they're covering will be open.

So what is he supposed to do? I admit, I'm not a fan of most of his gameplans, but the point remains, when you have 2 turds in coverage there really isn't much you can do. What can he do?

Nothing will work. And he's tried it all. And none of it works. You know when this defense will get better? When those 2 are not in the starting lineup. That's when.

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 01:32 PM
Was Hosley on the field at all on D?

scottyboy
09-17-2012, 01:35 PM
the defensive woes are the unexplainable lack of pass rush, the injuries at corner and the usual one bad angle/getting there late per game from Rolle

scottyboy
09-17-2012, 01:35 PM
that and let's not forget VJax is the one guy who ALWAYS torches Webster. Always. He's his nemesis

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 01:38 PM
I'm not ready to throw the D under the bus yet. We need to give it about 6 games before we start to get a read on everything.

scottyboy
09-17-2012, 01:45 PM
I'm not ready to throw the D under the bus yet. We need to give it about 6 games before we start to get a read on everything.

I agree, especially when most of the Bucs' points were straight off turnovers and big plays to VJax. I'd REALLY like for the pass rush to step up though.

The lack of a 3rd guy emerging is scaring me. Martellus right now is our 3rd receiving threat and that's kind of terrifying

bigbluedefense
09-17-2012, 01:45 PM
I haven't been able to break down either Giants game this season yet. Just wasn't able to DVR either game so I can't tell what's exactly the problem yet. But my guess is that they're max protecting a lot, and chipping a lot which is slowing down our rush, and Fewell is afraid to counter that with blitzes bc he doesn't trust his backend coverage to hold up. That's just a guess on my part.

Fwiw, Fewell is an awful blitzer. I hate his blitz packages. He rarely ever brings A gap pressure. He's always coming off an edge. What made Spags so effective was he came from a school of thought that emphasized A gap pressure. And it worked perfectly for us because our DEs are good enough to always bring that edge pressure, so when you design blitz packages to penetrate the middle, combined with our edge pressure from our Ends, we had very effective pass rush.

Fewell tries to create interior pressure by taking our best Edge rusher in JPP and putting him in the middle, which negates half of what makes him so dominant (speed to burn the edge). Tuck is the best interior pass rusher but he doesn't use him enough in this role whereas Spags used him in that role a ton.

Fewell just isn't a good coach. But to be fair, I don't know how much of our issues are his fault right now. Right now we're just not making plays, and I think it's more of a talent/injury issue than a X and O issue.

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 01:49 PM
I also thought Tryon played that ball pretty well on the Williams TD but it was just a great catch. There isn't much you can do with a height disadvatange.

Legacy
09-17-2012, 01:59 PM
The game was over and we'd taken a knee.
**** that. You play until the final whistle. I hate the "victory formation."

This is why the Bucs did what they did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jQz4BFbgARI

Forenci
09-17-2012, 02:00 PM
**** that. You play until the final whistle. I hate the "victory formation."

This is why the Bucs did what they did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jQz4BFbgARI

When have you ever seen that work in the NFL?

Legacy
09-17-2012, 02:05 PM
When have you ever seen that work in the NFL?
Right... Just because it has never worked in an NFL game means it's never going to work ever. :njx:

In case you've forgotten, games in the NFL have been decided by last second fumbles before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ML1Ixd3jiGU

Jughead10
09-17-2012, 02:09 PM
And that's why you have the kneel now. The Bucs players themselves didn't seem too happy about doing it. So thats all the info you need in my opinion.

If it was common practice and the offense was actually prepared for it, it would be one thing. But diving at the O-line's legs like that was pretty weak. That's just not a contested play in the NFL. Never has been and probably never will be.

Rosebud
09-17-2012, 02:14 PM
I don't usually celebrate injuries, but I'm going to laugh when the bucs have someone get hurt because another team decides they're going to pray for a miracle against them instead of just letting them kneel down. Carl Nicks isn't an important part of the team right?

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2012, 02:17 PM
I just didn't like Schiano's explanation of it. He said that the team fights for 60 minutes and so on.

Before half time, we were on our 8 yard line while the Bucs had a 11 point lead. Why didn't they do that then? That would make the most sense if one buys that BS. If they somehow score, they go into half time with a 18 point lead instead of a 11 point lead.

You talk about playing hard and fighting all game, yet you let us score. Yeah it's a strategic move to get the ball back. But that's basically saying our defense can't stop you NOR can it force a turnover. We had a rb who never played in a real game, and yet they didn't feel confident to stop him or cause a turnover.

YET, when the game is basically done they decide to pull that thing on a kneel down. It's not going to work first off, but if the logic is fight all game for 60 minutes, then do that when we are on our 8 yard line! Be consistent at least. Was it because they had the lead? Now they are losing so take your frustration out on us that way?

It's not an illegal move by any means, but I hated Schiano's logic behind that.

Legacy
09-17-2012, 02:17 PM
And that's why you have the kneel now. The Bucs players themselves didn't seem too happy about doing it. So thats all the info you need in my opinion.

If it was common practice and the offense was actually prepared for it, it would be one thing. But diving at the O-line's legs like that was pretty weak. That's just not a contested play in the NFL. Never has been and probably never will be.
It will be now. I fully expect the Bucs to do it again and I expect other teams to do it to them. You play to win the game. You don't quit or give up. Ever.

You may have missed what Roy Miller said: "I'll do anything for that coach. I believe in everything he coaches. We prepare for every situation."

You also may have missed what Mike Ditka said: "Tom's wrong about this. You never go out with the intent to hurt anybody, but you do try to get the ball. As soon as the center snaps the ball, you try to create a fumble. Who knows what can happen, as crazy as the game is today? The game's still going on. Greg Schiano is bringing a different temperament to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and I like what he's doing. I really do. They're going to be a good team, because they do the little things. This is not a popularity contest -- he doesn't care what Tom Coughlin thinks of him."

In fact, the only people I've heard crying about this are the Giants, their fans and Deion Sanders.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2012, 02:20 PM
Right... Just because it has never worked in an NFL game means it's never going to work ever. :njx:

In case you've forgotten, games in the NFL have been decided by last second fumbles before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ML1Ixd3jiGU



That's why the kneel down in victory formation is used so that we don't have to happen again. If you want to strengthen that example fine a situation where the QB fumbled on a kneel down in victory formation AND the team won that way. If that happened that cool, I'd stand corrected and praise Schiano for it.

And I have seen national guys who hated this too. People our MB who have access to sirus and other national outlets have posted on this. I think it's a split issue to tell you the truth.

Legacy
09-17-2012, 02:20 PM
I just didn't like Schiano's explanation of it. He said that the team fights for 60 minutes and so on.

Before half time, we were on our 8 yard line while the Bucs had a 11 point lead. Why didn't they do that then? That would make the most sense if one buys that BS. If they somehow score, they go into half time with a 18 point lead instead of a 11 point lead.

You talk about playing hard and fighting all game, yet you let us score. Yeah it's a strategic move to get the ball back. But that's basically saying our defense can't stop you NOR can it force a turnover. We had a rb who never played in a real game, and yet they didn't feel confident to stop him or cause a turnover.

YET, when the game is basically done they decide to pull that thing on a kneel down. It's not going to work first off, but if the logic is fight all game for 60 minutes, then do that when we are on our 8 yard line! Be consistent at least. Was it because they had the lead? Now they are losing so take your frustration out on us that way?

It's not an illegal move by any means, but I hated Schiano's logic behind that.
Cmon, man... Is it really that hard to figure out? If the Bucs defense hadn't let the Giants score their final touchdown, the G-Men simply would have run the clock down and kicked a chip-shot field goal.

And the reason the Giants didn't try to force a fumble before halftime is most coaches don't have the stones to attempt what Schiano told his defense to do. Don't kid yourself; every coach has considered it at some point, but none of them have the courage to break that "unwritten rule."

Legacy
09-17-2012, 02:22 PM
That's why the kneel down in victory formation is used so that we don't have to happen again. If you want to strengthen that example fine a situation where the QB fumbled on a kneel down in victory formation AND the team won that way. If that happened that cool, I'd stand corrected and praise Schiano for it.
Perhaps you missed the link to the Troy-Oklahoma State game I posted directly before that. It has worked before. The fact that it hasn't worked in the NFL isn't even relevant to the discussion.

Rosebud
09-17-2012, 02:27 PM
Perhaps you missed the link to the Troy-Oklahoma State game I posted directly before that. It has worked before. The fact that it hasn't worked in the NFL isn't even relevant to the discussion.

Of course it is. If we include college that's thousands of games a year. With those thousands of games there's still only one example of it ever actually happening.

Jughead10
09-17-2012, 02:28 PM
It will be now. I fully expect the Bucs to do it again and I expect other teams to do it to them. You play to win the game. You don't quit or give up. Ever.

You may have missed what Roy Miller said: "I'll do anything for that coach. I believe in everything he coaches. We prepare for every situation."

You also may have missed what Mike Ditka said: "Tom's wrong about this. You never go out with the intent to hurt anybody, but you do try to get the ball. As soon as the center snaps the ball, you try to create a fumble. Who knows what can happen, as crazy as the game is today? The game's still going on. Greg Schiano is bringing a different temperament to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and I like what he's doing. I really do. They're going to be a good team, because they do the little things. This is not a popularity contest -- he doesn't care what Tom Coughlin thinks of him."

In fact, the only people I've heard crying about this are the Giants, their fans and Deion Sanders.

I don't expect anyone else to do it. I do expect teams to retaliate other ways however. But the only time a team will see him again is a if it is a division opponent.

Who the F is Roy Miller? McCoy didn't seem happy about it. I saw a few quotes that all said "ask the coach" or "we're just doing what we're told to".

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2012, 02:33 PM
Perhaps you missed the link to the Troy-Oklahoma State game I posted directly before that. It has worked before. The fact that it hasn't worked in the NFL isn't even relevant to the discussion.

No it isn't it's the NFL not college. Those college antics aren't going to work. If and I mean IF that works in the NFL, then fine, I have NO issue saying, hey Schiano is a visionary in trying it. I am a fan of his and Rutgers which is the irony of it all. But that won't work in the NFL.

Cmon, man... Is it really that hard to figure out? If the Bucs defense hadn't let the Giants score their final touchdown, the G-Men simply would have run the clock down and kicked a chip-shot field goal.

And the reason the Giants didn't try to force a fumble before halftime is most coaches don't have the stones to attempt what Schiano told his defense to do. Don't kid yourself; every coach has considered it at some point, but none of them have the courage to break that "unwritten rule."


Run the clock out with a guy who has ZERO NFL experience. And yes I get the strategy element of it, but for a guy who said never give up play 60 minutes hard, that's the irony. Why not try to get the rookie to fumble? Who said a chip shot FG is automatic?

Remember Tony Romo in the playoffs against Seattle, in Seattle? Then you have a missed FG by Cundiff last season too. Guys can miss FGs or get them blocked.

I mean why didn't GS try it on us before half time. That would be the most ideal time with us backed up. Imagine if it worked, you would have an 18 point lead rather than an 11 point lead.

It's an idiotic move, and if he keeps that up he will get himself blacklisted among the NFL coaches. I have been around NFL coaches, and they hate that. Not specifically that particular move, but in a general sense breaking unwritten rules like that. NFL coaches are a close knit fraternity and I got the chance to be around them and talk to them. Guys who rock the boat like that can find themselves on the outside, especially if they get fired. That's why you try to burn any bridges because one day that coach you got mad may have a chance to hire you if you get fired.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2012, 02:35 PM
I don't expect anyone else to do it. I do expect teams to retaliate other ways however. But the only time a team will see him again is a if it is a division opponent.

Who the F is Roy Miller? McCoy didn't seem happy about it. I saw a few quotes that all said "ask the coach" or "we're just doing what we're told to".

Jug, their own players were almost ashamed to do it. They even called it a cheap shot, lol.

New York Giants

Tom Rock
+ Follow

Sean Locklear: "One of the guys said after the play (final play), “It’s a cheap shot, but coach told us to do it.”

"You could look on their faces, it was one of those things where they didn’t want to do it but you do what you’re told," Locklear said. about a minute ago

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 02:38 PM
It's a not a big deal from either side. It's the media creating a storm for nothing. Coughlin shouldn't have ran his mouth and Schiano probably shouldn't of called for it. I hate this dumb stuff.

Jughead10
09-17-2012, 02:40 PM
It's a not a big deal from either side. It's the media creating a storm for nothing. Coughlin shouldn't have ran his mouth and Schiano probably shouldn't of called for it. I hate this dumb stuff.

It certainly was dirty. It wasn't like they stood up and just played aggressively like a normal play. It was the way they dove at the legs of the O-lineman. You don't even see that on "regular" downs.

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 02:42 PM
I don't care I just want it to go away. I like actual football discussion not this garbage. It's like the Prince video.

Jughead10
09-17-2012, 02:50 PM
I don't care I just want it to go away. I like actual football discussion not this garbage. It's like the Prince video.

Well this did occur on the football field. If this is going to be standard practice for the Bucs, why didn't they do it when they were up and we backed up closer the end zone at the end of the first half?

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 02:52 PM
Use it as a surprise? I have no idea. I don't know what Schiano is thinking. I will say we never did this at Rutgers though.

Forenci
09-17-2012, 03:43 PM
Use it as a surprise? I have no idea. I don't know what Schiano is thinking. I will say we never did this at Rutgers though.

Which makes me question it even more. You're so for playing to the last second, why didn't you do this in college?

That's why this pisses me off. It seems to be Schiano was just butt hurt over his coveted defense getting torched and giving up the game winner that he tried to play dirty and get his revenge. You don't go at the knees of linemen. That's horse ****.

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 03:51 PM
No that's something Schiano would do. He really thought this was a good thing. He's not dirty/classless and he's certainly not butthurt.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2012, 03:55 PM
Well this did occur on the football field. If this is going to be standard practice for the Bucs, why didn't they do it when they were up and we backed up closer the end zone at the end of the first half?

Exactly! It's inconsistent with his explanation of fighting for 60 minutes and not giving up. Ok, cool, then when you have an 11 point lead and have the opposing team backed on their 8 yard line or so, then why not do that then? After all you want to play hard, and yada, yada, yada. So do that then. You have a shot then to go up 18 points and get the ball back 2nd half.

Instead they chose to do it when they were losing. If Schiano's going to say what he said then be consistent. Do that when we were about to kneel down on our 8 yard line. Then I understand it, though not agree with it. Yeah this guy wants to go all out, but he did it twice and was consistent about it. Not when he was losing or about to lose with 2 seconds.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-17-2012, 05:04 PM
Well, Schiano said today that his players successfully caused fumbles multiple time during his days as a Rutgers coach. Is that true, GF1080 and Scotty?

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 05:12 PM
Well, Schiano said today that his players successfully caused fumbles multiple time during his days as a Rutgers coach. Is that true, GF1080 and Scotty?

I don't remember even one instance where he pulled this move.

Jughead10
09-17-2012, 05:19 PM
I don't remember even one instance where he pulled this move.

Someone on BBI said he tried it against WVU and was only successful is getting 2 offsides penalties trying to jump the snap.

bucfan12
09-17-2012, 05:25 PM
@RealSkipBayless: Antonio Pierce said on First Take, as Giants LB, went all out 5 or 6 times vs. a kneel-down, his coaches never scolded him. Listening, Tom?

Per twitter.com

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 05:26 PM
Schiano is all about class and doing the right thing so it is weird that he called for it. I don't know I still don't care either way about it. We got the W in awesome fashion so that's all I'm thinking about.

Jughead10
09-17-2012, 05:29 PM
Per twitter.com

I don't recall that either. But Antonio was a dirty player so I wouldn't be surprised if he did it on his own. He certainly hit enough people late. He's also in the business of making statements to get attention like most people at ESPN these days.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2012, 05:36 PM
I don't ever recall Pierce doing that.

Anyway, who cares. It's over and done with. Let's talk about football, not this nonsense.

I love Schianno. This doesn't change my impression of him. He's a damn good football coach and the Bucs will thrive under him.

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 05:37 PM
I don't ever recall Pierce doing that.

Anyway, who cares. It's over and done with. Let's talk about football, not this nonsense.

I love Schianno. This doesn't change my impression of him. He's a damn good football coach and the Bucs will thrive under him.

Agreed 100%. How are we going to contain Cam this Thursday?

Forenci
09-17-2012, 05:39 PM
I'm a UConn fan so I'm bias, but too will let it go.

The short week kills us. Will Prince, Hosley and company be ready? We're going to need them to step up big time if they are good to go. Have we been using Rolle as a nickel at all? I feel like that would be prudent considering we have far greater safety depth than we have corner depth.

D-Unit
09-17-2012, 06:07 PM
So the Cowboys face Tampa this weekend. What did you guys gather from that game. Are they that good or what?

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 06:13 PM
Hosley has been activated both games. I bet they keep Prince out for 1 more week.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2012, 06:15 PM
So the Cowboys face Tampa this weekend. What did you guys gather from that game. Are they that good or what?

They're good. They have a fast physical defense, although they lack pass rushers on the edges. They have good LBs who can cover, they attack gaps with their DL, and their secondary is respectable.

On offense they have talent on the outside with Jackson and Williams, and they have a very good OL and run game. We still don't know what Freeman is, the sample size under Schianno is too small.

They won't be a walk in the park. They're a competitive team, physical team, and they're well coached.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2012, 06:18 PM
Hosley has been activated both games. I bet they keep Prince out for 1 more week.

Short week going on the road vs a pretty solid Panthers team scares me a lot.

Steve Smith is another Giant killer. Jackson and Smith back to back with a banged up secondary could be trouble.

And unless our DEs pick it up Cam is gonna be a problem. I can see Fewell playing a lot of contain vs him which would slow down our pass rush even more.

I still remember that abortion of a game plan Fewell had vs Vince Young last year. It disgusted me. He was so concerned about VY scrambling and McCoy finding cutback lanes that he basically eliminated our pass rush completely by design.

I can see him doing that again this week.

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 06:29 PM
Uggh I was thinking the same thing. I can see JPP, Tuck, and Osi just holding their spots instead of attacking. Let's hope we get a push up the middle. We should be able to put up lots of points on the D though.

D-Unit
09-17-2012, 06:32 PM
They're good. They have a fast physical defense, although they lack pass rushers on the edges. They have good LBs who can cover, they attack gaps with their DL, and their secondary is respectable.

On offense they have talent on the outside with Jackson and Williams, and they have a very good OL and run game. We still don't know what Freeman is, the sample size under Schianno is too small.

They won't be a walk in the park. They're a competitive team, physical team, and they're well coached.
Is their secondary really that good? Didn't Eli have a career passing day yesterday? I saw parts of the ending of the game and Eli did look flustered but maybe the stats were misleading since he connected on a couple of deep bombs.

Giantsfan1080
09-17-2012, 06:33 PM
One INT was Eli throwing way over Cruz's head. The other 2 were pretty good plays by the D. Wright baited Eli into throwing a slant and Wright read it and picked it off.

scottyboy
09-17-2012, 06:55 PM
speaking of uconn bias: Forenci, Beatty is straight trash.

i'm nervous for this week. Cammy Cam could very easily destroy us. We're gonna need Linval and Rocky to get some big time push. Maybe even see Austin on the field.

Forenci
09-17-2012, 07:23 PM
speaking of uconn bias: Forenci, Beatty is straight trash.

i'm nervous for this week. Cammy Cam could very easily destroy us. We're gonna need Linval and Rocky to get some big time push. Maybe even see Austin on the field.

And like I've said before, I agree, he is. Unlike some people I don't overrate people because they went to the school I root for.

COUGH COUGH.

scottyboy
09-17-2012, 07:26 PM
name me one player besides Brian Leonard that I've done that too!!!

and Sanu doesn't count, still early, he'll prove the doubters wrong!

WHATEVER I'M NOT ASHAMED OF WHO AND WHAT I AM

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2012, 09:19 PM
It won't but can you imagine if it did.

One final note: With his 713 yards through two games, Manning is on pace to break Drew Brees' single-season passing record of 5,476 yards with set a new mark of 5,704 yards.

Giantsfan1080
09-18-2012, 08:31 AM
I'm glad this game is on the road Thursday. Hopefully it helps galvanize the team into playing well.

Jughead10
09-18-2012, 08:42 AM
Has Jacquian Williams played much? I wonder if the but Chase on the bench and move Boley over to the middle to help negate Cam on the ground.

Giantsfan1080
09-18-2012, 08:53 AM
Williams had a lot of snaps in the first game but we didn't hear much from him on Sunday. We need Rivers back this game also as he's very quick sideline to sideline. We need that speed in this game with what they're going to throw at us running wise.

bigbluedefense
09-18-2012, 08:54 AM
Boley in the middle will actually hurt our run defense. He can't shed blocks.

I want Rivers out there instead of Kiwi at SAM, or if we want to go all out run defense, Chase at MIKE, Williams at WILL, and Rivers at SAM.

But that won't happen.

Giantsfan1080
09-18-2012, 08:59 AM
I really thought Kiwi became a very good run stuffer the 2nd half of last year. What changed since then?

bigbluedefense
09-18-2012, 09:05 AM
He's not a good tackler. I want to see our tackling improve on defense, and the only way to do that is to get players on the field who tackle well. Our entire starting LB core are not good tacklers. That is a big part of why we give up a lot of YAC.

So we need a changing of the guard of sorts in that area. I want to see Herzlich eventually start over Chase, I'd like to see Rivers start (if healthy), and I'd like to see Williams on the field more. Now Boley is going to play all 3 downs this year all year, that won't change bc he's our most proven veteran LB, but next year I wouldn't mind moving on from Boley bc we have young talent that's just as fast as him that's also better at tackling in the run game.

bigbluedefense
09-18-2012, 09:08 AM
Great defenses tackle well. Look at the Jets, look at the 49ers, they are great tackling defenses.

If you can tackle well on defense, that's 50% of the battle, forget Xs and Os for a second, simply being a great tackling defense alone will go a long way in making your defense a good unit.

We have poor tackling on defense. I'd say our only good tacklers are JPP, Williams, Rivers, Rolle, and KP. That's it. We need to improve in this area.

And the area where tackling matters the most is the LB core. So that's where we should focus on first when it comes to improving our tackling. Look at our tackle numbers over the past 2 games, it's pathetic. The DL outtackles the LB core. Inexcusable.

Giantsfan1080
09-18-2012, 09:24 AM
That's a good point. I wonder if it's something we don't work on as much now because of the practice rules. I suppose not though because we haven't tackled well for a few years now.

bigbluedefense
09-18-2012, 09:31 AM
I think teams in general don't practice tackling, so it has to come from the player himself. Good tackling players in college are good tacklers in the pros. Poor tacklers in college are poor in the pros.

So we just have to do a better job of drafting better tacklers.

Giantsfan1080
09-18-2012, 09:41 AM
Kuechly!!! :(

bigbluedefense
09-18-2012, 10:01 AM
Kuechly!!! :(

Was my favorite prospect in the draft :(

Once he ran that 4.5 I knew we had no chance of getting him though. I think with the roster overhaul that's due soon, we should be seeing some changes in our tackling moving forward though.

Osi: Will be gone. Can't remember the last time he made a tackle.
Boley: Will probably be gone.
Chase: Gone

Our secondary could see improved tackling when Prince comes back. Hosely could be troublesome here though.

So with those changes, we could see improved tackling.

Giantsfan1080
09-18-2012, 10:03 AM
It's scary to see Osi and Tuck dissapear this year so far. Even JPP's sack could have been considered a coverage sack even though he's still playing well. I just don't get it sometimes.

scottyboy
09-18-2012, 10:10 AM
i hope chase won't ever be gone. even if he doesnt start. I just love him so much.

also, yeah, we're gonna have a big changing of the guard. Young guys really need to step up. Right now, DE looks like a weakness with how Tuck and Osi are playing. Hopefully tracy and ojomo can be good players for us. Luckily with Williams, we're set with one really good young LBer and we feel that Herz can potentially be the MLB of the future. I just wanna keep Kiwi. Dude is a great guy who is so talented, just wish we didn't jerk him around so much

bigbluedefense
09-18-2012, 10:20 AM
Well Osi is gone for sure. But I think we probably extend Tuck. Tuck was never a dominant pass rusher. He was a great run stuffer who can provide solid pass rush off the edge, and great pass rush on the interior.

Fewell doesn't use him as well as he could. Tuck is a significantly better interior pass rusher than edge rusher. Yet Fewell will rush him outside, stand him up and rush him etc. Then take JPP, our best edge rusher, and rush him inside. Makes no sense.

I think the pass rush will improve. As Warren Sapp says, the front and back end work together. Right now the back end is a mess.

Forenci
09-18-2012, 11:20 AM
The poor coverage could be a factor in a lack of pass rush too. With Tryon and Coe out there, they have very little time to get to the QB. Tuck started off slow last season because of injuries. Is he hurt at all? It's just very odd. I mean, we did face some good offensive lines so that could factor in too.

Giantsfan1080
09-18-2012, 11:33 AM
The Cowboys O-Line blows chunks. It's a little better than ours because of Tryon but JPP abused him that game.

bigbluedefense
09-18-2012, 11:48 AM
We got good pressure against the Cowboys though. We just couldn't cover, and Romo did a great job of evading pressure.

And we couldn't wrap up.

Osi has been the disappointing one. He was completely owned by Smith in Dallas, and Penn owned him too.

Tuck was good but not great vs Dallas, and mediocre vs Tampa.

Giantsfan1080
09-18-2012, 12:08 PM
Yup Osi has dissapeared the first two games. I think he'll come up with a big sack or two Thursday though. Maybe the lack of time will let the coaching staff come in with simplified game plans that will just let our talent take over.

bigbluedefense
09-18-2012, 12:20 PM
I think he just went up against 2 LTs who have the skillsets to shut him out. And I think Gross will give him fits too.

What I hate is, when Osi comes on the field, we move JPP. JPP's best spot is RE, by far. So we are impacting our best pass rusher by bringing Osi in at RE.

I'd rather put Osi at LE, keep JPP at RE all the time, and slide Tuck in at UT when all 3 are on the field. But that's only on obvious pass plays.

Big_Pete
09-18-2012, 05:08 PM
The defensive issues do concern me.

Our pads rush should be getting more pressure. Sure teams seem to be scheming well with blocking against our DEs, but where is the change up?

Our secondary is a concern, sure we have had injuries at corner, but why don't we adjust our secondary and bring our safeties up a little more to help our corners a bit more?

Our biggest problem in my opinion is that Fewell doesn't seem to adapt well with his schemes.

I guess you can argue some of the same with Gilbride, but it is hard to argue against the potency of our passing game.

As far as tackling goes, it is an area we need to improve. I guess the limited practices in camp didn't help

BigBlueNorwegian
09-18-2012, 06:10 PM
Watched an interview with Perry Fewell on Giants.com now. He said that he will bring the corners closer to the LOS, as in play more press man, to counter the three-step drops we've seen from our opponents to contain our pass rush. That's good news, I think(if he follows through). One of the main problems with our secondary, especially in week one, was the lack of press coverage. Ogletree killed us on the slants, and Vincent Jackson also burned us a couple of times on free releases last game.

He also said that he's considering using a QB spy against Cam and Vick in the two next games, "if it's necessary". What do you guys think? Is that a good solution? And who would play the spy in that case? We need someone fast, who is also a good tackler. Boley? Jaquain Williams? Rivers, if healthy?

scottyboy
09-18-2012, 06:25 PM
i think we see a lot of that trio with the upcoming games against cam and vick. they're both quite fast and will make a big difference

BaLLiN
09-18-2012, 08:01 PM
Id like to see Tuck moved inside for these games, or at least against the eagles because Kelce is going to be out. This allows for us to play Kiwi/Osi at end in rotation. A lighter front seems better against the eagles with how their offense is, you need penetration against vick and mccoy.

bigbluedefense
09-19-2012, 09:03 AM
Take what Fewell says with a grain of salt. Usually coordinators don't tell the media what they are going to do on defense.

But even if he did make that adjustment, it wouldn't matter. Because our DBs are getting beat in both zone and press man. In fact, most of the big plays we gave up were against press man coverage. So it's not a scheme problem. It's a player problem. (At least on the back end).

We need our DBs to get healthy. And when Prince and Hosely do see the field, they need to play well. Bottom line. And we have to hope Corey picks it up. Because he hasn't played well.

In regards to the front 7, we need our LBs to be more aggressive and make more tackles, and we need to adjust how we attack gaps with our front.

Out of all our issues on defense, our front is the only issue I have with Fewell right now. But the rest of the issues are player issues. The players have to play better, bottomline. It's not always coaching.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2012, 09:09 AM
Hosley played 50 snaps last week which I had no idea. Fewell said he was very good besides a play or two. The problem is we have him in the slot most of the time and we're getting eaten alive on the edges right now.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2012, 09:10 AM
I have no idea why but I have a really good feeling about the game tomorrow night.

scottyboy
09-19-2012, 09:22 AM
hosley looks like he can be a stellar slot guy. We need Prince to come back, be healthy and play like the first rounder he is. It's a solid group of guys when healthy and playing up to their ability

Wootylicous
09-19-2012, 09:26 AM
Bradshaw really needs to go. He is awful.

bigbluedefense
09-19-2012, 10:02 AM
I have to go back and watch the games over again. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of information right now.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2012, 10:22 AM
I have to go back and watch the games over again. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of information right now.

I forgot to DVR this game but I had no idea Hosley played that much. Very good sign for us.

bigbluedefense
09-19-2012, 10:24 AM
I forgot to DVR this game but I had no idea Hosley played that much. Very good sign for us.

Would it shock you if he leapfrogs Prince?

I'm starting to think they're not thrilled with Prince so far.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2012, 10:26 AM
It depends on how much they want to leave him in the slot. If they think he can move outside then yes I think he eventually jumps Prince. I think I even said that a few months ago.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-19-2012, 10:36 AM
Do you guys have access to all 22 tape? it's included in the stream package i bought on NFL.com, and its awesome! going to watch the bucs game again now in all 22 camera mode.

bigbluedefense
09-19-2012, 10:38 AM
Maybe vs 3 WR sets he covers the slot but against 2 WRs he is on the edge. With Prince coming in to defend the edges vs 3 WRs. I can see that happening.

I'm hoping Prince can become an anchor on one side though. The potential is there, he just has to get it together. Too many injuries. I don't ever see Prince being a lockdown CB though. I can see him as a solid #2 like Aaron Ross was, but I think that's his ceiling. His ceiling is Ross.

We need to draft another CB to replace Web as our lockdown guy.

Rosebud
09-19-2012, 10:57 AM
Prince reminded me so much of Webster at Nebraska, even with the injuries I think that's the player he'll become for us. Granted he needs to stay healthy for that to happen, but so far he hasn't had anything that makes me worry about his career the way TT's knees have ended his, plus he came on strong to end the season last year. I think we just need to see him healthy and comfortable and we'll all be reminded of why he was so highly touted coming out.

I do like Hosley a lot to though, and think he and Prince could form a very good tandem on the outside once Cweb's gone, but it's Prince who I think will be the better lockdown guy who we rely on to quiet the other team's top receiver.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2012, 11:16 AM
Do you guys have access to all 22 tape? it's included in the stream package i bought on NFL.com, and its awesome! going to watch the bucs game again now in all 22 camera mode.

I was going to buy it but I never did. I didn't know if I'd really spend the time to watch each game more than once.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2012, 11:18 AM
Maybe vs 3 WR sets he covers the slot but against 2 WRs he is on the edge. With Prince coming in to defend the edges vs 3 WRs. I can see that happening.

I'm hoping Prince can become an anchor on one side though. The potential is there, he just has to get it together. Too many injuries. I don't ever see Prince being a lockdown CB though. I can see him as a solid #2 like Aaron Ross was, but I think that's his ceiling. His ceiling is Ross.

We need to draft another CB to replace Web as our lockdown guy.

This is exactly how I would play it. Let's hope Prince is back tomorrow night and then we can morph into playing our coverage this way against the Eagles.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-19-2012, 11:27 AM
I thought i could try to do a write-up on the game for you guys. I'm watching all 22 camera on this. If you want me to watch for something specific, or watch a specific play, let me know. I am by no means an expert, like BBD or NYG, but I'll try to put into words the things I notice.

If you guys find this interesting, I'll do the rest of the game later tonight. This is only the first Quarter.


First offensive drive:

Good drive from the Giants, highlighted with a long Nicks catch on Talib in man coverage. Drive stalled with a bradshaw run on first down, where he danced instead of hitting a pretty good hold between Baas and Snee, followed up by incomplete passes to Wilson and Nicks. Wilson dropped his pass, and Talib defended good on the third down pass. Field goal, 3-0 Giants


First defensive drive: ¨

After a run, and a pass to Mike Williams for a first down, Josh Freeman throws deep against Corey Webster and hits Vincent Jackson for a long gain. Looks to be a cover 1 with Antrel Rolle as the single high safety. Rolle is late to help despite no other recievers in his area. Webster got beat to the outside by Jackson. Drive stalls after a failed WR screen, a run for no gain, and a HB slip screen, in which we have shoddy tackling, but Linval Joseph comes from behind and makes the tackle after a gain of two. FG good, 3-3

Second offensive drive:

Good passes from Eli to Cruz (one in zone, one in man coverage), as well as a 12 yd run by bradshaw with great blocking gets us into the redzone. Hixon gets injured on the slant he catches vs zone coverage. on first and goal after the Hixon injury, Eli completely misses Bradshaw open in the endzone on a flat route, and throws the ball to Beatty(!) who had run a drag route as the eligible reciever. First mistake by Eli, you can see him eyeing Bradshaw, but unfortunately, he turns to Beatty just moments before Bradshaw is uncovered.

2nd and goal, Bradshaw gets stuffed after a gain of one, not his fault. Nowhere to go. Diehl injured. Then Beatty has a false start, making it 3rd and goal at the 6. They were going to run off left guard, it looks like. on 3rd and goal, Manning throws an incomplete pass to Bennett in the endzone. Bennett dropped the pass. Manning also could have stood in there for much longer, as TB only rushed three. But the pass was on the money. Bennett just dropped it. FG good.

Giants 6-3 Bucs

Second defensive drive:

Osi breaks contain on an end around to give the Bucs a first down. Luckily, Boley makes a great play and forces Williams out of bounds. then, after a 17 yd catch for V.Jackson against Hosley, he beats Webster deep again on the same play as the first drive. The Giants roll from a cover 2 look into a single high safety late, and Antrel Rolle has no chance to support Webster. But the ball is overthrown, and that saved a surefire TD.

on 2nd down, Blackburn has his sack on an A gap blitz, in which there was no blocker in the area. Free sack for the Giants. Their drive stalls at midfield after a DJ Ware 6 yd gain on the draw. Tuck makes the tackle. End of the first Quarter.

Observations:

- Run blocking was not good all first Quarter. The one time it worked, Bradshaw went for 12 yds.

- Pass offense was very good in the first Q, but we stalled in the redzone in our two trips, due to an error by Eli, and a drop by Bennett.

- Good run defense all first Quarter. But Chase Blackburn gets washed up in the run game way to often. We are saved by the last available defender a couple of times.

- Webster in man coverage, and Rolle as the single high safety is not a good combination. We got beaten badly two times in this look by Vincent Jackson.

All in all a good Quarter. We should have had at least one TD. But we easily could have allowed one to Jackson as well.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2012, 12:46 PM
Awesome work Norwegian. I would definitely read breakdowns like that.

As for tomorrow:
Bradshaw, Diehl, Hixon, Ojomo - OUT
Nicks, Coe - QUESTIONABLE
Prince, Rivers, Scott - PROBABLE

scottyboy
09-19-2012, 01:14 PM
prepare yourselves for beatty rants from me. just a warning

Forenci
09-19-2012, 02:15 PM
prepare yourselves for beatty rants from me. just a warning

Haha it's deserved. He's poop.

I just want a blue chip O-Linemen.

scottyboy
09-19-2012, 02:36 PM
Haha it's deserved. He's poop.

I just want a blue chip O-Linemen.

agreed. Too many projects. Whimper. Brewer. McCants. Koets

CAN WE PLEASE JUST GET A FIRST ROUND NASTY BLUE CHIPPER?

bigbluedefense
09-19-2012, 02:50 PM
Cordy Glenn was there for the taking.

I was a fan of his too. Not as high as Stephen Hill though.

scottyboy
09-19-2012, 02:53 PM
Cordy Glenn was there for the taking.

I was a fan of his too. Not as high as Stephen Hill though.

I wanted Cordy. Man he would've been awesome as our RT.

Or freaking Massie. Cards got him, what? 4th round? Ugh. He's looked good for them IIRC.

I'm happy with our class now but I'd just love a nice Olineman who's played in a real conference and wasn't a tight end 40 minutes before his senior season

Jughead10
09-19-2012, 03:04 PM
F!!!! Nicks out tomorrow.

scottyboy
09-19-2012, 03:05 PM
******* **** ****

NY+Giants=NYG
09-19-2012, 03:37 PM
Damn that's gotta be tough for him. Going back to his home state and all his family and friends were coming, and he doesn't even play. I figured he would play. It seems like every year he misses a game.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2012, 03:51 PM
How does he go from questionable to out in the matter of hours?

NY+Giants=NYG
09-19-2012, 03:53 PM
The people who made the schedule should be kicked in the balls! Wed. to a sunday.. to that same thursday back to sunday. LOL. WTF!

What is this madden with fatigue and injuries off?

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2012, 04:29 PM
It's such a weird schedule. I think it's part of the reason why I'm still not "in" to the season yet. I feel withdrawn more this year than in years past.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-19-2012, 04:37 PM
Awesome work Norwegian. I would definitely read breakdowns like that.


Then I'll keep doing them :) Unfortunately, I won't be able to complete the bucs game, because I got drowned in work all of a sudden. But I'll do it for the Carolina game for sure, and I'll try to do it for the rest of the games this season.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2012, 05:44 PM
Looks like Nicks would have went if this was a Sunday game.

bigbluedefense
09-19-2012, 05:51 PM
Ramses Barden...

NY+Giants=NYG
09-19-2012, 06:32 PM
Yeah let's see if barden actually produces at a high level on a consistent basis. So that's why R.R. got a lot of practice this week. So looks like Barden, R.R. and Cruz with probably lots of Bennett. Hopefully Brown and Wilson then. We have to win with that then.

scottyboy
09-19-2012, 06:42 PM
Honestly, I feel with cruz and Eli we're gonna drive down and ramses may see a td or 2 in the red zone and make headlines if we win. It's a hilarious possibility

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2012, 07:06 PM
The D needs to carry the way tomorrow night. No injury excuses with pretty much everyone going but Canty.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-19-2012, 07:25 PM
Now that's funny. And Eli will throw for 550 yards with 4 TDs and 0 ints.

Our defense except for in the playoffs haven't carried anything. I have ZERO faith in Fewell. I expect the D to screw things up and then it's up to the offense. If we play FG fest part 3 I expect us to lose.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2012, 08:58 PM
I understand that but they need to step up. They have the talent and hopefully Fewell realizes he needs to go back to what we were doing in the playoffs now that everyone is pretty much back.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 08:03 AM
So I'm still pretty confident in winning this game tonight. I never feel like this before a game that I know can be a loss.

Damix
09-20-2012, 08:08 AM
So I'm still pretty confident in winning this game tonight. I never feel like this before a game that I know can be a loss.

I'm not confident at all, big play offense against our D which can't stop the big play.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 08:10 AM
I'm not confident at all, big play offense against our D which can't stop the big play.

I'm not really sure I know why I feel like this considering everything but I just do. It kind of reminds me of the NE game last year when we were without all the same players.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-20-2012, 08:33 AM
I'm not confident at all, big play offense against our D which can't stop the big play.

Bingo! That's how I feel. I have no confidence in our defense and Perry fewell. So I expect us to lose. If you win the very good for us.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 08:47 AM
They aren't really a big play offense either. They run the ball a ton.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-20-2012, 08:56 AM
I'm not really sure I know why I feel like this considering everything but I just do. It kind of reminds me of the NE game last year when we were without all the same players.

I agree with everything you said here. I have a good feeling as well, but I can't really describe why. All logic states that this is a very tough game for us. I guess we'll see tonight.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 09:40 AM
NE and Philly last year are the two best examples of us stopping big play offenses when no one gave us a chance. Carolina isn't on the same level as them offensively.

Rosebud
09-20-2012, 12:52 PM
I think Corey will have a much better game against a little guy like Steve Smith and we've done a good job against mobile QBs in the past. So I understand the optimism. As long as we can slow their running game and our offense shows up I've got a good feeling bout this game as well.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 08:33 PM
Where are my fellow Bardenite's???

Rosebud
09-20-2012, 08:34 PM
Where are my fellow Bardenite's???

Quietly praying he doesn't get hurt in the second half. But it is great seeing him finally doing what we always knew he could.

BaLLiN
09-20-2012, 08:38 PM
Where are my fellow Bardenite's???

not here, he isn't doing anything besides being tall lol. These db's are terrible, and although i like that he is producing, i don't see what makes what hes doing is extraordinary

BaLLiN
09-20-2012, 08:38 PM
I wanna see JJ get his snaps if hes even active

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 08:41 PM
So now we're going to get on him because the other team sucks?? Ok.

princefielder28
09-20-2012, 08:42 PM
So now we're going to get on him because the other team sucks?? Ok.

I'm surprised with how many yards he's been able to gain after the catch

BaLLiN
09-20-2012, 08:48 PM
So now we're going to get on him because the other team sucks?? Ok.

i mean, he's getting separation, but the other team does really suck. the one thing i liked was his ability to get off the line, it seems much improved.

However, JJ runs great routes and gets separation just from his stems.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 08:52 PM
JJ blows. He has proven less than Barden ever has. Loved the pick at the time but I can admit my losses when I see nothing.

BaLLiN
09-20-2012, 08:53 PM
JJ blows. He has proven less than Barden ever has.

ok well he also is a 2nd year and Barden is a 4th year...

Edit: and JJ is a slot, who else plays slot? Cruz. There's not going to be many opportunities for JJ.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 08:55 PM
JJ has never flashed. Barden at least always used to flash in preseason. JJ has never done jackshit.

BaLLiN
09-20-2012, 08:56 PM
JJ has never flashed. Barden at least always used to flash in preseason. JJ has never done jackshit.

JJ had a 40+ yard kick return in the superbowl...

BaLLiN
09-20-2012, 08:59 PM
side note: anyone want to rest Brown and see what Wilson can do? we need to get his confidence up, he just looks like a lost puppy right now

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 09:00 PM
JJ had a 40+ yard kick return in the superbowl...

I'm talking as a WR here.

I agree with your point below this though. Give Wilson carries in the 4th quarter if we still have this lead.

BaLLiN
09-20-2012, 09:13 PM
I'm talking as a WR here.

I agree with your point below this though. Give Wilson carries in the 4th quarter if we still have this lead.

JJ beat a db bad in our first preseason game and Eli still had some room in the endzone to lead him, but JJ's arm got held it was so blatantly obvious. That was what i was talking about stems, JJ ran the outside stem and was able to transition and use his speed very quickly. That play told me he is talented, he just needs to fight for the ball and draw the foul.

Damix
09-20-2012, 10:29 PM
GF, you were right, I was wrong.

I was drinking the whole game, was that as dominating as it looked?

BigBlueNorwegian
09-20-2012, 10:31 PM
Well, that was an awesome win! Total domination in all three phases, and great games from Andre Brown and Ramses Barden! Suddenly that 2009 draft class looks much better, lol!

Shame about the injuries though, just holding out hope that it was only a laceration and no extensive knee damage on Rolles knee. And of course, we got some other DB injuries. Hosley hamstring injury, and Webster hand injury.

When will it stop?

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 10:42 PM
GF, you were right, I was wrong.

I was drinking the whole game, was that as dominating as it looked?

More dominant than it looked.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 10:42 PM
Well, that was an awesome win! Total domination in all three phases, and great games from Andre Brown and Ramses Barden! Suddenly that 2009 draft class looks much better, lol!

Shame about the injuries though, just holding out hope that it was only a laceration and no extensive knee damage on Rolles knee. And of course, we got some other DB injuries. Hosley hamstring injury, and Webster hand injury.

When will it stop?

We're the Giants it never ends. Webster came back in so that's good obviously. Rolle and Hosley cross the fingers.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-20-2012, 10:57 PM
We're the Giants it never ends. Webster came back in so that's good obviously. Rolle and Hosley cross the fingers.

Webster looked to be wearing a cast in the locker room after the game. Hope it's just a sprain and for precautionary reasons. Rolle injury is just a bruise according to Coughlin. No news on Hosley yet, but hopefully we kept him out for precautionary reasons. So all in all pretty good news on the injury front.

Btw, looks like our good feeling came through GF!

And sidenote; The Giants are now 8-0 the last 8 gamedays I eat hamburgers for dinner. I forgot the ritual week one, so it's my fault we lost that game. It won't happen again, even if I put on 200 pounds of fat eating the Giants into multiple Super Bowls :)

EDIT: Broken hand for Webster. Says he'll play through it. From Ohm and Garafolo on Twitter.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 11:03 PM
According to Hosley himself it doesn't seem that bad. The 10 days to Eagles should do us wonders and have us at full strength minus Canty.

Also yes they did!! I just felt really good about this game. I know people are just going to say Carolina stinks but we were clicking everywhere.

Who knew hamburgers in Norway were common?

BigBlueNorwegian
09-20-2012, 11:18 PM
According to Hosley himself it doesn't seem that bad. The 10 days to Eagles should do us wonders and have us at full strength minus Canty.

Also yes they did!! I just felt really good about this game. I know people are just going to say Carolina stinks but we were clicking everywhere.

Who knew hamburgers in Norway were common?

lol, we actually have an almost completely similar food "menu" to USA. But we like to get weird with cooking sheep. We cut off the sheeps head, and eat its brains and eyes, it's actually a delicacy in Norway. Also we mix Sheep meat with cabbage and boil it together. That's our national dish. Never had the brains or eyes, but the sheep meat and cabbage is awesome!!

Forenci
09-20-2012, 11:31 PM
Where are my fellow Bardenite's???

BARDEN!!!!!

Haha, I think you and I were the only two Barden supporters left.

Let us enjoy this before BBD comes in and ruins it.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2012, 11:34 PM
I know I don't articulate myself as well as you other guys but I do know some things!

Malaka
09-20-2012, 11:36 PM
BARDEN!!!!!

Haha, I think you and I were the only two Barden supporters left.

Let us enjoy this before BBD comes in and ruins it.

I have been in the camp. I was rocking a sig of him before we drafted him. I am glad he has finally shown up in a regular season game.

BamaFalcon59
09-21-2012, 12:07 AM
Hosley interception 1/100.

scottyboy
09-21-2012, 12:50 AM
beatty wasn't garbage tonight forenci, so there's that.

but wow, what a night

Rosebud
09-21-2012, 01:43 AM
BARDEN!!!!!

Haha, I think you and I were the only two Barden supporters left.

Let us enjoy this before BBD comes in and ruins it.

How dare you forget me! :freakout: Hell I still believe in beatty if he ever manages to stay healthy.

beatty wasn't garbage tonight forenci, so there's that.

but wow, what a night

Hey, when healthy he's actually kinda good at pass pro n just mediocre as a run blocker.

Jughead10
09-21-2012, 07:34 AM
That game was so awesomely boring.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2012, 07:53 AM
We needed one of those. Let's just hope all is fine on the injury front this afternoon.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-21-2012, 08:17 AM
Hixon has to be wally pipped now! No way he can keep his job with Barden having a game like that. Hixon couldn't do that! Not saying Barden is amazing, but Hixon can't do that.

I want to see Nicks at X, Barden at Z, and Cruz inside! Oh yeah our red zone play calling is bush league. I'd say what I really think but it would get filtered!

Jughead10
09-21-2012, 08:30 AM
Barden did have an awesome game but Hixon can play inside as well. Which Barden can't. Or at least I assume he can't, because he couldn't do anything until last night. He's too painfully slow to play the slot.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-21-2012, 08:34 AM
I want to see what JJ can do. Sometimes I feel like our players aren't given a chance to see what they can do. As if they have a short leash with Coughlin. You mess up once and you're done. It was annoying to see Scott kill the game and get reps rather than your damn first round pick.

Play JJ and see what we have.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2012, 09:19 AM
Jernigan is garbage I said it last night and I'll say it again. We don't develop our small WR's well. I liked the pick at the time but after seeing him I don't think he'll do much for us.

Tynes was so awesome last night also. Long kickoffs, booming FG's right down the pipe.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2012, 09:20 AM
Barden did have an awesome game but Hixon can play inside as well. Which Barden can't. Or at least I assume he can't, because he couldn't do anything until last night. He's too painfully slow to play the slot.

It's weird because he timed well coming out of college. He seems to have lost that speed with the injury though.

Forenci
09-21-2012, 10:05 AM
beatty wasn't garbage tonight forenci, so there's that.

but wow, what a night

Haha yeah, Beatty actually played well. I was very surprised on that front. Granted they don't have a great defensive line but he did really well.

I want to see what JJ can do. Sometimes I feel like our players aren't given a chance to see what they can do. As if they have a short leash with Coughlin. You mess up once and you're done. It was annoying to see Scott kill the game and get reps rather than your damn first round pick.

Play JJ and see what we have.

That's actually very true. I feel like a lot of players don't get their fair shake because of how Coughlin treats rookies. Like I feel now Wilson would have normally got a ton of carries in this game but Coughlin likes to baby them so Brown got the bulk.

Jernigan is garbage I said it last night and I'll say it again. We don't develop our small WR's well. I liked the pick at the time but after seeing him I don't think he'll do much for us.

Tynes was so awesome last night also. Long kickoffs, booming FG's right down the pipe.

Yeah, Tynes has been underrated for a few years now. He's money and pretty damn clutch at this point.

It also seemed like Prince played really well. I don't remember him ever giving up much, if anything, to whoever he covered.

scottyboy
09-21-2012, 10:24 AM
prince played really well. And as i told my friend who has wilson in fantasy, Coughlin treats rookies like 2nd class citizens. they don't get time unless we're really desperate

Witten4HOF
09-21-2012, 10:48 AM
If you guys get Barden going it is really going to pay dividends to your offense, especially in the red zone. Having that kind of size on the outside to pair with Nicks who plays much bigger then he is and the shiftiness of Cruz in the slot will create matchup nightmares and thats not even including Marty B.

Spread it out all day and if defenses want to get cute with the coverages QB draw all day.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2012, 11:02 AM
If you guys get Barden going it is really going to pay dividends to your offense, especially in the red zone. Having that kind of size on the outside to pair with Nicks who plays much bigger then he is and the shiftiness of Cruz in the slot will create matchup nightmares and thats not even including Marty B.

Spread it out all day and if defenses want to get cute with the coverages QB draw all day.

Gilbride hates calling passing plays in the Red Zone so I doubt it.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2012, 11:02 AM
prince played really well. And as i told my friend who has wilson in fantasy, Coughlin treats rookies like 2nd class citizens. they don't get time unless we're really desperate

Wilson has shown nothing so far so I don't blame the staff for not using him.

scottyboy
09-21-2012, 11:08 AM
Wilson has shown nothing so far so I don't blame the staff for not using him.

in space he's looked good, but I agree. It's also that coughlin, as we all know, just does not like to play rookies for the most part.

barring 2007 of course

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2012, 11:13 AM
in space he's looked good, but I agree. It's also that coughlin, as we all know, just does not like to play rookies for the most part.

barring 2007 of course

We like to bring them along slowly. I don't think we can argue with the way the staff handles it.

How about Marty B.?? What a steal. Ahh I love games like lst night. So any positives I want to go over.

scottyboy
09-21-2012, 11:17 AM
We like to bring them along slowly. I don't think we can argue with the way the staff handles it.

How about Marty B.?? What a steal. Ahh I love games like lst night. So any positives I want to go over.

True, no real complaints.

And there are a ton of positives, I just don't know if it's because of Carolina being poop or us clicking. So many things worked in our favor. Our D looked unreal. That's the biggest thing to take from it. They were healthy, they were fired up and made plays against a talented offense. Love it

Wootylicous
09-21-2012, 11:17 AM
Alex Smith is a god. Just saying.

/troll

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2012, 11:23 AM
True, no real complaints.

And there are a ton of positives, I just don't know if it's because of Carolina being poop or us clicking. So many things worked in our favor. Our D looked unreal. That's the biggest thing to take from it. They were healthy, they were fired up and made plays against a talented offense. Love it

Geez I need to proofread my comments when I'm at work. So many errors.

With Prince and Hosley back the D should be studly. Williams, Rivers, Boley, talent all over. I can't wait for Canty also.

I think we need to sit Diehl and Bradshaw when they get back. I doubt Coughlin does it but it's time. Someone made a Stephen Davis comparison with Brown and I though that was pretty good.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-21-2012, 12:19 PM
I want to see the bench guys play. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ actually did well. I just don't see the awe factor in Hixon. He is a solid guy who can play outside and inside, but I'd play Barden over Hixon, and see what happens.

If we don't give Barden a chance, he won't re-sign to be on the bench. Somewhere a team will use this tape and get him in free agency. And they will play him!

So unless Hixon is a long term guy, play the guy you developed. Give Barden his chance. Give Brown now his chance and make Bradshaw a chance to step up. David D. is gone and the OL is playing very well. So now put him as a backup.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2012, 12:21 PM
I agree with all that. Barden is better than Hixon. Brown hits the hole and runs while Bradshaw has lost a step and dances too much.

scottyboy
09-21-2012, 12:22 PM
I feel like in the running game, Brown and (hopefully) Wilson could be the changing of the guard. We've got Bradshaw locked up and he's a solid guy, great vet, we love him to death, but eventually Brown (I know I might be over-reacting as it's been 2 games) and Wilson could be our 1-2 punch, which would be awesome.

I realized, we liked Brown enough to keep him over Ware, so there's something to be said in that

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2012, 01:15 PM
Yeah definitely a metaphoric handoff against Tampa and Carolina. We'll see how Coughlin handles this.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-21-2012, 01:42 PM
Well now because of the CBA, and limited years on contracts and such. If a player shines you have to investigate that road and see how he does. Worst thing to do is not play the guy when he shows it or shines, and then that player realizes, why re-sign with the Giants? I can go somewhere else and start.

Barden's situation is exactly like that. If I am his agent I hear money sounds. My client showed the league, in a nationally televised game, that he can play. So the Giants better play my client more, because we are not re-signing on a team to waste more years on my clients career's shelf life.

So that's how I see it. Play barden and see because Hixon isn't the long term plan. Barden could be.. Same with J.J. Can we at least see what we have in him?

Because of the new CBA we can't develop players for 21931982 years now. If a player shines, it's our obligation to investigate the potential talent and see if it was a one time thing or have we "hit" on this guy?

Basically it comes down to the issue of don't mismanage potential talent.

Rosebud
09-21-2012, 01:45 PM
I'm sure Barden will be the guy opposite Nicks, when everyone's healthy and Cruz goes into the slot, but if Cruz goes down Ramses isn't going to replace him in the slot. That's why Hixon still has a role on this team, he can play inside as well as out.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2012, 01:46 PM
It's tough for our guys because of the talent we have though. It's hard for them to even get an opportunity. If it's for only a game then they have to take advantage of it for them to get more time. It's a good problem to have.

scottyboy
09-21-2012, 02:15 PM
know what's really nice now? Over a week to rest and prepare for Philly. Nicks will have had 2 weeks of rest, Rolle and Hosley can heal a bit, everyone who's banged up has a lot of recovery time so we can go in strong against Philly

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2012, 02:19 PM
Hell yeah! The player interview are going on now and then Coughlin so we should have some injury updates within the hour. Rolle, Hosley, Rivers, Tuck are the big ones.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-21-2012, 04:44 PM
I'm sure Barden will be the guy opposite Nicks, when everyone's healthy and Cruz goes into the slot, but if Cruz goes down Ramses isn't going to replace him in the slot. That's why Hixon still has a role on this team, he can play inside as well as out.

Then let Hixon fight with JJ for that Slot. Also, RR is there as well. Basically allow our guys to be seen to see can evaluate them. Hixon isn't versatile, however he is not the long term fix. Let's see what our younger guys have before we make a decision.

I think Dallas did that too early with bennett. I think they could have done a better job developing him. But Pope > garrett.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2012, 12:09 PM
My advice to all of us: Calm down.

Quite frankly, there was very little to take from that game. Carolina didn't show up. That was too easy.

And all the good signs we've seen the past 2 weeks need to be taken with a grain of salt as well. We won't know if we truly improved until we play Philly.

Yes, our rush offense looks much improved. And there's no denying that Andre Brown is hitting the holes, cutting, and dancing less than Bradshaw. It also looks like the run blocking is improving.

But we also went against 2 of the worst run defenses in the league last year. We went against 2 teams that have no DEs who can generate pressure, so our pass pro looked better than it is as well.

So while the OL looks like HOFers the past 2 games, and the run game looked great, keep that in mind. We didn't exactly go against the 85 bears.

Defensively, we look better when getting healthy DBs. Prince looks good, Hosely looks like he's going to be a steal.

But watching Osi try to set the edge is painful to watch. All their positive run plays were simply run at Osi.

And Barden. Freakin Barden. Whoopidy doo. He still sucks. He can't get separation, the Panthers DBs are doo doo, and they left the seams open all night, so he just attacked the seams.

He's slow as ****. Let's calm down about Barden. Let him show it to us this week vs Philly.

And who gives a **** about letting rookies plays. You want them to play? Then tell them to play better. Bottom line. We have great success building depth because of how we coach up young players. The method works, just because we don't get to see it doesn't mean we should change it. Players earn playing time.

These coaches see every practice, every TC rep, every classroom lesson etc. They know who should play. And who earned it.

Forenci
09-22-2012, 12:24 PM
Well who peed in BBD's coffee this morning?

That was rather depressing to read. I don't think any of us are saying that game is how we expect to play every week.

I think there is a lot to take from these games. Carolina made mince meat of New Orleans last week and our defense shut them down.

A lot of good positives. And no one is saying Barden is a HOFer or anything. He had a great game and hopefully it gives Eli some confidence throwing to him with Nicks back.

scottyboy
09-22-2012, 12:26 PM
you knew BBD would do that though haha. saw that coming a mile away

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2012, 12:55 PM
I didn't see any Saints WR putting up the numbers that Barden did. I said 50 catches for him this year and I'm sticking by it.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-22-2012, 01:20 PM
HAHAH BBD! LOL.


It's a good start for Barden. It's damned if you fail, and damned if you do well. If you fail, we shall curse you, but if you do well, even against that level of competition, then curse you some more!

Just like in a two back system, if you do well, then it's only because the 1st RB "loosened" up the defense. Jacobs did well, because Tiki loosened up the defense. Bradshaw did well because Jacobs wore the defense down. So always knock the 2nd RB, if he does well. But if the 2nd RB fails, then we trash him anyways.

Same thing here. Barden did well, and let's use this as a positive step in the right direction. Let's allow him and Brown more PT and see what happens.

BaLLiN
09-22-2012, 01:55 PM
I was saying the same thing about Barden, he did well, but the panther's DBs are terrible. Barden made plays we should expect him and most other widereceivers to do.

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2012, 01:59 PM
haha you guys are ridiculous. In the first 2 games no other WR or TE put up those kind of numbers against that D.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2012, 02:14 PM
Yeah but it's so obvious the Panthers didn't bring their A game that day. They're not that bad. Yes we played flawlessly, but they also played like dogshit. They're better than that.

And you guys love my rants. All I'm saying is, don't sip the kool aid just yet. We need to see how this team plays vs elite competition.

I saw positives, but we're not on the road to the Super Bowl just yet.

I am thrilled with Andre Brown though. I almost wish we lost Bradshaw for an extended period of time. But now he's gonna take half of Brown's snaps away.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2012, 09:47 AM
No one is sipping anything. We did what we had to do on the road against an inferior D in 4 days. People stepped up like they are supposed to on this team. Keep it rolling now.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2012, 10:59 AM
http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=74223

Audio and video of the Coughlin-Schiano exchange

bigbluedefense
09-23-2012, 08:44 PM
Dear Perry Fewell,

Blitz Vick up the middle ALL DAY.

Please? Don't be a ****** this week. I seriously hate you so much.

scottyboy
09-23-2012, 11:11 PM
ugh, sunday night game just realized.

NYC team, defending champs = minimal nice 1pm Sunday games.

Big time first world (champs) problem

Forenci
09-24-2012, 12:18 AM
I feel we have a good chance against the Iggles. I know they usually own us but they honestly are not that good. They were overhyped coming into the year again. Like BBD has said in the past, since his first few weeks of play, Vick really has not bad that good. He has continued to decline and has been turning the ball over at an incredible rate. He's been really bad this year.

They're just overrated. They should probably be 0-3. They almost lost to the Browns...

Malaka
09-24-2012, 09:17 AM
I feel we have a good chance against the Iggles. I know they usually own us but they honestly are not that good. They were overhyped coming into the year again. Like BBD has said in the past, since his first few weeks of play, Vick really has not bad that good. He has continued to decline and has been turning the ball over at an incredible rate. He's been really bad this year.

They're just overrated. They should probably be 0-3. They almost lost to the Browns...

I don't want us to get ahead of ourselves but honestly the Eagles suck. They should be 0-3 it's shocking how they have squeaked to 2-1. They own us historically the last few years, but right now we should spank them if Fewell doesn't go full ****** and Eli doesn't get bored. Maybe some decent redzone play calling by Gilbride would be nice, but that's not necessary since that doesn't seem to be a part of our super bowl formula.

We better win this weekend. I'll be enraged if we don't.

Jughead10
09-24-2012, 09:23 AM
I saw the Cowboys took a knee yesterday. That pissed me off, after Jones said the play should be disallowed.

Giantsfan1080
09-24-2012, 09:25 AM
Garrett and Jones aren't getting along.

Jughead10
09-24-2012, 09:26 AM
Garrett and Jones aren't getting along.

I see. And Schiano was douchey again. Did you see that article on how he used to treat the NFL scouts when they came to Rutgers?

Giantsfan1080
09-24-2012, 09:37 AM
That article was pure BS. A kill piece for no reason.

bigbluedefense
09-24-2012, 10:10 AM
I'm not impressed with the Eagles either, but we all know, they can turn it around instantly. Never count out an Andy Reid team. He always gets them together just when you think they're dead.

We have to blitz Vick all day long. I really hope Fewell doesn't play him conservative. Vick can't handle A gap pressure, we need to hammer the A gap all game. Our Ends can create edge pressure, let them do their thing. But blitz that A gap all night long.

Jam those WRs and blitz the A gap. We have to keep forcing turnovers vs them, bc if they don't turn it over vs us, it could be a tough game. I know we'll turn it over vs them, Eli always does. Philly just frustrates him like no other team. So we have to win that turnover battle. We gotta force sacks and turnovers.

This game is always close, and always ugly. I really hope we can pull it out. We can't lose 2 division games so early in the season. Can't do it.

Big_Pete
09-25-2012, 03:47 PM
I think we shouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves, we should just focus on getting the win this week. There are no bonus points for style.

Sure the Eagles haven't been playing well, but like every team they will be working on getting better. They have a lot to improve, but if things click they will be very tough plus we all know they have given us matchup problems at times.
Never under estimate the Eagles for sure. Having said that I hope we smash them :-)

As far a the Panthers not bringing their A game, there may be truth in that, however, you could argue that the Giants didn't let them play the game they wanted. In the end it doesn't matter, we have the win and that is what counts.

More than anything I think our season will come down to quality depth and the ability of the next guy to step up. When asked our guys have gotten the job done. Barden and Brown have proven they can be effective weapons in their own right and will likely feature more in the rotation. It also means we can likely rotate a little more.

Rosebud
09-25-2012, 03:56 PM
Am I the only one feeling a loss here? After having a lot of time off after stomping a no-show Carolina squad, against a reeling eagles team? Just seems like the recipe for an absolute clusterfuck performance from us.

scottyboy
09-25-2012, 04:10 PM
we'll see where we are as a team, physically and mental make up. We could have a good chance here, to get a division win against the eagles, and then get a win against the Browns. A nice 4-1 start would be fantastic, heading into the san fran game

bigbluedefense
09-25-2012, 04:55 PM
Am I the only one feeling a loss here? After having a lot of time off after stomping a no-show Carolina squad, against a reeling eagles team? Just seems like the recipe for an absolute clusterfuck performance from us.

This^

Typical Giants let down game coming up.

Jughead10
09-25-2012, 05:34 PM
This^

Typical Giants let down game coming up.

No. We'll beat the Eagles on the road and then the let down will be to the Browns at home.

Giantsfan1080
09-25-2012, 05:55 PM
No. We'll beat the Eagles on the road and then the let down will be to the Browns at home.

Haha I agree that this scenario is much more likely. Huge road division win and then come home where we suck and lose to one of the worst teams in football.

Rosebud
09-25-2012, 06:00 PM
If we manage to win this week we're guaranteed to lose to the Browns.

Giantsfan1080
09-25-2012, 06:05 PM
If we manage to win this week we're guaranteed to lose to the Browns.

As for confidence I really feel fine about this game right now. The Eagles OL is terrible. I always trust Eli to get us points.

Rosebud
09-25-2012, 06:16 PM
Yeah, but we're gunna turn the ball over and this'll probably be Philly's only turnover free game all year.

Giantsfan1080
09-25-2012, 06:19 PM
Stop being negative nellies here. We won 2 Super Bowls have a talented roster and an MVP candidate and probable HOF in his prime. Enjoy it! When we get knocked out for the year we can mope.

Rosebud
09-25-2012, 07:23 PM
I'm not being negative. Games this early in the season aren't all important, so while I'm expecting a loss in the next two weeks that won't be the end of the world, especially if it's the Browns game, cause then we'll definitely beat the 9ers.

Forenci
09-25-2012, 09:20 PM
Am I the only one feeling a loss here? After having a lot of time off after stomping a no-show Carolina squad, against a reeling eagles team? Just seems like the recipe for an absolute clusterfuck performance from us.

It's possible. I wouldn't rule it out.

I'm more confident in this Eagles match up than usual though. No more Asante (who owns Eli) doesn't hurt either.

bigbluedefense
09-26-2012, 07:03 AM
Philly just has our number. They're the 1 team that always confused him.

Giantsfan1080
09-26-2012, 07:10 AM
Confused Eli? He usually has 1 mediocre game against them and 1 great game per annum. If you go back the last few years you'll see what I mean. I think it's more of a defensive issue against their offense over the years.

bigbluedefense
09-26-2012, 07:44 AM
Well, maybe I'm thinking too much of Asante. Asante owned Eli. Yes, I know Eli got him too, but Asante really knew how to read Eli very well.

Our OL vs that wide 9 is scary too. And we have Perry Fewell.

I'm just saying, I think they're like 7-1 vs us the past 4 years. They have our number.

Giantsfan1080
09-26-2012, 08:16 AM
You can't use they have our number after you used the Cowboys were due against us haha. You basically are looking for the negative. Our defensive front 7 against that OL can be just as scary. Also, if we can run the ball like last week the Wide 9 will take themselves right out of the game.

bigbluedefense
09-26-2012, 08:36 AM
Bradshaw is playing. Our run game will take a hit.

Giantsfan1080
09-26-2012, 09:33 AM
We'll see how the coaching staff deals with it. They can't just relegate Brown to the bench for 25 carries of Bradshaw.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-26-2012, 10:42 AM
I'm with you GF, I have a good feeling about this game as well. Coughlin/Eli history shows that we will start no worse than 4-2. We never have with those two. The most realistic scenario is that we win the next two games, before we lose against the 49ers.

But I could easily see us delivering a WTF-game against the Browns as well. We could lose that one, and win on the road against the 49ers instead.

But I have a really good feeling about this game. Vick will keep throwing INTs, Eli will lead our O down the field, and we will win this next game.

scottyboy
09-26-2012, 10:43 AM
well, I'm playing against Brown this week in fantasy, so let's hope that Bradshaw does well, and at the very least, takes all the TD's!

or, we can just sling it around with Eli, because that's always awesome as hell to watch because Eli=sexy

Giantsfan1080
09-26-2012, 11:24 AM
Nicks, Rivers, and Hosley not practicing. I'm assuming Nicks back tomorrow. Rivers and Hosley have those damn hamstring issues that cause problems all year.

Rosebud
09-26-2012, 11:30 AM
I'm with you GF, I have a good feeling about this game as well. Coughlin/Eli history shows that we will start no worse than 4-2. We never have with those two. The most realistic scenario is that we win the next two games, before we lose against the 49ers.

But I could easily see us delivering a WTF-game against the Browns as well. We could lose that one, and win on the road against the 49ers instead.

But I have a really good feeling about this game. Vick will keep throwing INTs, Eli will lead our O down the field, and we will win this next game.

I know you're new, but the giants beating the Eagles and Browns, but losing to the 9ers is the least likely way for us to get to 4-2.

scottyboy
09-26-2012, 11:41 AM
I know you're new, but the giants beating the Eagles and Browns, but losing to the 9ers is the least likely way for us to get to 4-2.

on paper it's the most likely, with us, it's the least. classic giants

Giantsfan1080
09-26-2012, 12:02 PM
Everyone here would be happy with a 3-1 start and a 1-1 division start. Flipping this into a W since we lost at home to the Boys is fine.

Rosebud
09-26-2012, 12:03 PM
on paper it's the most likely, with us, it's the least. classic giants

It's a big part of what I love so much about this team. We defy common sense at every opportunity.