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Malaka
12-04-2012, 02:52 PM
I am with BBD, I expected to go 1-1 but the script was flipped. Also, just to chime in, Tuck is awful. period. I never see the guy do anything ever.

If you think our red zone offense was bad well it's about to get a whole lot worse. Andre Brown was our goal line back for a reason and he's out. Within 10 yards just abandon the run game... IDGAF... all it ever does is set 3rd and goal from like the 7 yard line. I'd rather give Eli 3 shots to get it in.

Linebacker overhaul... please. Every linebacker we have is marginal at best. Everytime there was a play action I saw tweedle dee and tweedle dum, Chase Blackburn and Michael Boley, doing a 180 and trying to get back into coverage. It was so damn frustrating. On top of that BBD is absolutely right the Giants are an awful tackling defense. Ankle tackles and horrible angles everywhere... the Redskins were laying the wood... the Giants? Jumping at guys ankles.

I really like Prince going forward and Hosley has a place on this team. If we keep KP, if Webster is serviceable for another year or two, and we draft another corner we are looking at a really good secondary.

I give the D-line a pass in regards to the actual pass rush because the option really limits how much pass rushing you can do, but I did see pressure on obvious passing downs. However, I cringed every time there was a stretch or pitch... does anyone know how to keep contain? Even JPP lost it several times.

This has been a very negative post, but I do see positives.

- Eli is out of his funk, he was making beautiful pinpoint passes. Some deep balls got away from him but I liked what I saw; he was threading the needle. ... I doubt the red zone offense improves much though. Losing Brown and just having Kildrive as a coordinator does us in there.

- Bradshaw runs hard like we didn't already know that, but now he's playing for his job. Andre Brown and David Wilson are lurking. Barring injury, Bradshaw will keep up his good play.

-Hakeem Nicks still looks slow but is improving... and Randle looks like he's getting a better grasp, or Gilbride is giving him the Manningham treatment. Either way I liked that he got some grabs. However... I am off the Barden bandwagon... probably permanently... the guy had one good game in his entire career... where is he? He could have helped with our red zone woes with Nicks hurting but nah... he's probably on bicycling somewhere on the sideline.

-For the right price, I want Martellus resigned. He's super athletic and is a great blocker at TE. He does have some mental lapses but he's nowhere near Jermichael Finley ********. Eli makes his TE's good he made Boss a slow as hell 5th rounder and Jake Ballard an even slower UDFA look good... Bennett is actually athletic. This is a very symbiotic relationship.

- Hynoski is pretty underrated. But I mean when the announcers just suck RG3, Alfred Morris, and Darrell Young's dick all-night maybe my view is just skewed. Did anyone else notice this? I was so god damn annoyed by the blowjob this trio was receiving all night long unfortunately I was with others watching the game so I couldn't just mute them.

I was extra pissed at this game because I live in Redskins territory... it ******* sucks. It's not the end of the world though we will be okay. The division is ours for the taking. IMO we only need 9 wins and were playoff bound, though I would love 10 and some nice momentum.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2012, 03:00 PM
The WR's GB had in that game are a million times better than the WR's from Washington last night.

All they had was Nelson who was a big threat. JF has his issues catching the ball. We played well on Cobb. But they have ZERO OL. And now we are talking system, because yeah GB might have better talent in a vacuum, however, in this damn system where they run ZBS, and this flash fake play action, action, it makes these guys just as good. I mean if the defenders don't know what he heck it's going to be a run or pass, now these skill players are dangerous.

Big_Pete
12-04-2012, 03:07 PM
Am I the only one who is not worried?

For some reason I thought we were gonna win a close game the entire game. Then we didn't. And I was like oh well. It just didn't bother me for some reason. I was actually excited about the game.

1. Nicks is looking healthier, looking faster.
2. Bennett is looking healthier and faster.
3. Tuck didn't play many snaps (I'll elaborate later)
4. KP and JPP played.
5. Osi looks fresh.
6. Bradshaw looks better.

Those signs were all good news to me. I expected us to go 1-1 btw GB and Washington. We did that. Granted, it was flipped, I thought we'd beat Washington and lose to GB, but whatever.

Now, onto the bad news:

1. Locklear injury hurts bad. We are a MUCH better OL with him in there. That sucks. Major problem.
2. Tuck. Tuck is awful. The guy has 3 sacks on the season, he takes a TON of plays off, never plays with any consistent motor. He's the definition of average and I'm tired of him pretending to be a leader. I'm tired of him moping around, chewing on his stupid mouthpiece by himself on the sideline, giving no effort on the field, making excuses, then acting like he's the leader of our defense.

He didn't even play many snaps last night. He played less than 50% of our snaps. And he STILL took plays off. He took off half of his plays. He's done. Get rid of him.
3. Redzone offense.


Don't put this on the defense. The defense did their job. The offense's issues in the redzone and penalties cost us the game. But I'm not worried. We still control our own destiny.

I'm with you BBD

We all knew this was going to be a tough game. We had chances to win the game but didn't quite get there, that's football.
Sure there are things we need to do better.

I also agree about tuck, is he playing hurt?

bigbluedefense
12-04-2012, 03:13 PM
I'm with you BBD

We all knew this was going to be a tough game. We had chances to win the game but didn't quite get there, that's football.
Sure there are things we need to do better.

I also agree about tuck, is he playing hurt?

When is he NOT hurt? I'm so done with him. He shows up for 3 games a year and we give him a pass for it. He's done. Just imagine how good our DL could be if we had a reliable DE opposite JPP. Tuck is good for 10% of the season.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2012, 03:24 PM
Put Kiwi or Ojomo there and see what happens, and use Tuck as a rotational guy like 2007.

scottyboy
12-04-2012, 03:25 PM
Kiwi KILLED it against the Packers at DE. granted, their OL was scrubs but still

bigbluedefense
12-04-2012, 03:27 PM
Put Kiwi or Ojomo there and see what happens, and use Tuck as a rotational guy like 2007.

They did. Kiwi played a lot more snaps vs the Skins than Tuck did. Tuck came in situationally, and saw a lot of time at DT.

I'd like to see Tracy and Ojomo see more time, but I'd still give Kiwi snaps over both of them.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2012, 03:33 PM
They did. Kiwi played a lot more snaps vs the Skins than Tuck did. Tuck came in situationally, and saw a lot of time at DT.

I'd like to see Tracy and Ojomo see more time, but I'd still give Kiwi snaps over both of them.

That's good then. I don't really want tuck re-signed. I want a new DC if anything. But that side of the ball is useless in general. I really don't have faith in that side of the ball.

I can't believe how downhill our offense went. Injuries and penalties aside, our red zone offense and play calling needs to be fixed. We can't expect great things if we constantly need to kick FGs. That's just poor playing. I am very angered by this offense.

bigbluedefense
12-04-2012, 03:35 PM
That's good then. I don't really want tuck re-signed. I want a new DC if anything. But that side of the ball is useless in general. I really don't have faith in that side of the ball.

I can't believe how downhill our offense went. Injuries and penalties aside, our red zone offense and play calling needs to be fixed. We can't expect great things if we constantly need to kick FGs. That's just poor playing. I am very angered by this offense.

I want a defensive overhaul. We need to draft guys who tackle well, and we need to draft linebackers.

Keep Rolle, Kenny, Prince and Hosely. Try to squeeze another year out of Webster and draft a CB.

All new LBs. All of them. Just overhaul the whole group.

Keep JPP, Kiwi, try to re-sign Osi as a situation player at the right price, let Tuck walk, sign Joseph for the right price if not let him walk too.

But we need to overhaul the defense. The scheme is the scheme, but if you don't improve your tackling I don't care what scheme you run, it won't work.

I'd like Spags back too or another DC but first and foremost we gotta clean up our tackling.

Forenci
12-04-2012, 03:44 PM
I'd just go BPA in terms of defensive player on the board. We could use a player at almost any position.

DE - Tuck leaves and some DL play has been mediocre at times.
DT - Big need. No one outside of Linval, and it's not like he's amazing and will be a FA
LB - Clearly a need. Boley is okay if he has good run stuffers next to him. Strictly a coverage LB though.
S - Obviously want to keep Kenny, but you never know what might happen. Plus Rolle could become a cap casualty. Don't trust Brown or Hill to start
CB - Webster is old, Prince is a stud, and Hosley is still developing. Clearly need another solid player here.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2012, 03:47 PM
I want a defensive overhaul. We need to draft guys who tackle well, and we need to draft linebackers.

Keep Rolle, Kenny, Prince and Hosely. Try to squeeze another year out of Webster and draft a CB.

All new LBs. All of them. Just overhaul the whole group.

Keep JPP, Kiwi, try to re-sign Osi as a situation player at the right price, let Tuck walk, sign Joseph for the right price if not let him walk too.

But we need to overhaul the defense. The scheme is the scheme, but if you don't improve your tackling I don't care what scheme you run, it won't work.

I'd like Spags back too or another DC but first and foremost we gotta clean up our tackling.

You can have this years all star team, and fewell will mess it up. He simply isn't a good DC. You see flashes but overall I hate his defensive philosophy. Too reliant on the front 4. And if they don't get home you're screwed.

If Norv Turner shakes free, I know Gilbride is stuck here and fine with that I guess, but Norv Turner and his Air C. system is my favorite pro system. It would be a tease to see him available and can't get him.

Let Osi go too. He is a useless and has 1 foot out the door anyways. Overall won't be bad, if that's the case, then switch to a 3-4 defense. Too bad we can't get a guy like Horton or raid the Steelers staff for a Dick L. guy.

Offensively, I am stuck. No one is going anywhere. And the adjustments needed aren't going to be made. The Phd Wr sight adjustments will remain. The routes are all getting route read very well. And red zone play calling is bush league. I am screwed!

bigbluedefense
12-04-2012, 03:51 PM
Let's also evaluate players on the bench who can step up:

On the DL: I don't view Tracy or Ojomo as guys who can be inserted into the starting lineup and become instant impact guys. I want studs on my DL, so I rather draft a DE then assume either of these guys can step up and produce. I view them as great depth but nothing more.

DT: We have nobody. Austin sucks, Bernard is 50, Canty is due too much money, Joseph is a FA. Big issue here.

LB: I like Williams a lot. I think he should start next year. But that's it. Herzlich is a backup. So is Paysinger.

DB: Hosely is destined to be a slot corner. Brown gets praise, but he makes a lot of mistakes. He had a couple of hot games but he makes a lot of mistakes that you don't immediately notice. Sash sucks.

So we can replace 1 LB position in house with Williams, but that's all I see from a depth perspective.

bigbluedefense
12-04-2012, 03:52 PM
You can have this years all star team, and fewell will mess it up. He simply isn't a good DC. You see flashes but overall I hate his defensive philosophy. Too reliant on the front 4. And if they don't get home you're screwed.

If Norv Turner shakes free, I know Gilbride is stuck here and fine with that I guess, but Norv Turner and his Air C. system is my favorite pro system. It would be a tease to see him available and can't get him.

Let Osi go too. He is a useless and has 1 foot out the door anyways. Overall won't be bad, if that's the case, then switch to a 3-4 defense. Too bad we can't get a guy like Horton or raid the Steelers staff for a Dick L. guy.

Offensively, I am stuck. No one is going anywhere. And the adjustments needed aren't going to be made. The Phd Wr sight adjustments will remain. The routes are all getting route read very well. And red zone play calling is bush league. I am screwed!

Osi isn't useless. He's very good at his role as a pass rush specialist. As long as we use him in that role, he's fine for the right price.

And you're missing the point that the fundamental problem is players. You as a coach know this. Players make plays. Coaching comes second to talent. Get the talent, then worry about the coaching.

Forenci
12-04-2012, 03:54 PM
Same. I'm not confident enough to put Ojomo or Tracy as starter or key rotational player yet. They have too much to prove. I'd like to at least see them get some snaps though.

It's tough now because we have a log jam at the position but next year they should see time.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2012, 04:16 PM
Osi isn't useless. He's very good at his role as a pass rush specialist. As long as we use him in that role, he's fine for the right price.

And you're missing the point that the fundamental problem is players. You as a coach know this. Players make plays. Coaching comes second to talent. Get the talent, then worry about the coaching.

He wants his payday. That's always been the issue and disgruntle fact from his side. He never got the contract he wanted and whined ever since. He won't come back unless it's a big time deal where he starts. Then he is set for life. He won't come back as a specialist. I think he is as good as gone after the season.

If talent is not used right or the scheme is flawed doesn't matter who you have man. The fact that when guys get beat they are looking around like who messed up is an issue. Then that comedy reel last season where the players called it miscommunication and then the media asked Fewell and says there wasn't any. It was so bad that Rolle went to fewell asking for stuff changed.

If we want a total overhaul change the system and let's get an aggressive 3-4 DC. We draft players yearly someone has to step up. What position would you like in the first round if you had your way and hypothetically we were not going BPA?

bigbluedefense
12-04-2012, 04:24 PM
We aren't built to be a 3-4 defense. JPP is built for the 4-3. Stick with a 4-3.

I don't think Osi will get the money he wants on the open market. The best deal he'll get might be with the Giants anyway.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2012, 04:29 PM
We aren't built to be a 3-4 defense. JPP is built for the 4-3. Stick with a 4-3.

I don't think Osi will get the money he wants on the open market. The best deal he'll get might be with the Giants anyway.

Well i don't mind an overhaul, but messing around like this in Eli's prime isn't ideal. How long do we sustain being over .500 team while this overhaul is under way? 2 years overhaul? Keep fewell?

Damix
12-04-2012, 04:29 PM
We aren't built to be a 3-4 defense. JPP is built for the 4-3. Stick with a 4-3.

I don't think Osi will get the money he wants on the open market. The best deal he'll get might be with the Giants anyway.


Your thoughts on what Osi would put up in the wide 9? (not suggesting we convert).

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2012, 04:37 PM
He has trouble against the run. So him being wider out would hurt. Basically single block, kickout or double and that whole side have a gaping hole for a RB to run easily.

bigbluedefense
12-04-2012, 04:40 PM
Well i don't mind an overhaul, but messing around like this in Eli's prime isn't ideal. How long do we sustain being over .500 team while this overhaul is under way? 2 years overhaul? Keep fewell?

We don't get to choose when the team has to get overhauled. Players age, contracts expire, etc. It happens. Roster turnover is abundant in the NFL, it happens every 4 years.

I think with good drafts we can overhaul this team in 2 years.

There is no rebuilding when you have an elite qb. We'll be a contender every year of Eli's career bc of Eli. The pieces around him will change, the scheme will change but one thing will remain the same: Eli will keep us competitive until he retires.

bigbluedefense
12-04-2012, 04:41 PM
Your thoughts on what Osi would put up in the wide 9? (not suggesting we convert).

As a starter? I can see 10 sacks.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2012, 04:48 PM
We don't get to choose when the team has to get overhauled. Players age, contracts expire, etc. It happens. Roster turnover is abundant in the NFL, it happens every 4 years.

I think with good drafts we can overhaul this team in 2 years.

There is no rebuilding when you have an elite qb. We'll be a contender every year of Eli's career bc of Eli. The pieces around him will change, the scheme will change but one thing will remain the same: Eli will keep us competitive until he retires.

Well I am waiting for the scheme to change. I appreciate what we have done with Gilbride, but god, I can't wait until it does. My worst fear is Eli retires in this scheme without seeing him in another system.

I really hope we do better in the red zone next game.

“We have to win literally every one of our games. That’s how I look at it,” Coughlin said, via Jenny Vrentas of the Newark Star-Ledger.

Coughlin also said he wanted the team to “pay specific attention” to how teams lose games around the league. Presumably, he’d like them to pay special attention to how penalties can undermine a team’s chances of winning.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/04/tom-coughlin-we-have-to-win-all-four-remaining-games/


For once TC, stop with the bush league playcalling and let's be creative and put it on the arm of Eli in the red zone. But the overview is red zone efficiency of ours sucks!

What are we? Second most in the NFL in going to opposing red zones, but near the bottom in TDs. Try that Coughlin! Figure that out!

Giantsfan1080
12-04-2012, 04:53 PM
Agreed about Tuck as I also called him out earlier in the day. I don't care about the body language stuff as you pointed but he's definitely way past his prime. He hasn't been the same player sick that asshole(Adams) on the Cowboys tripped him and he hurt his shoulder. Unless he signs for the friendliest deal ever I'd let him walk.

bigbluedefense
12-04-2012, 04:57 PM
Even then I don't want him back. At this point, him starting holds our team back. I rather just replace him outright and look to improve that position with some new blood.

I hope he retires and makes the decision easy for us, but he probably won't

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2012, 04:58 PM
Friendly deal AND be willing to be a back up. I don't want him starting and taking PT away from someone else we could be developing.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-04-2012, 04:58 PM
I don't want to get into the evaluating process of our current roster yet, seeing as we still are right in the thick of the playoff and division race. Last night did make me more worried about our playoff prospects. But it was a totally avoidable and stupid loss, when we could've and should've won and separated from the pack in our division.

Another thing that worries me is that we now lose the tiebreaker to either the Cowboys or the Redskins regarding division wins. We can only go .500 if we win against the Eagles (which is never a gimme, not even with this sorry ass version of the Eagles). That means we need one more win than Cowboys/Redskins to win the division. Cowboys schedule is pretty tough, but the Redskins schedule is pretty easy compared to ours and the 'Boys.

REDSKINS:

Ravens
@Browns
@Eagles
Cowboys

COWBOYS:

@Bengals
Steelers
Saints
@Redskins

I can easily picture Redskins winning 3 or even all of their remaining games.
Which forces us to win at least three games ourselves. Next week against the Saints is now a must-win. If we don't win there, we force ourselves to win out to be certain of a playoff spot. And that is against two of the top teams in the NFL, and our nemesis Eagles, who would damn sure like to beat us out of the playoffs in their last game of the season.

I know the arguments about "these are the situations the Giants thrive in" and "we will play up to our opponents vs. the Falcons and Ravens".

But I HATE that we have to rely on these things year in and year out. We are just as likely to get bitten in the ass by this, and miss the playoffs, as we are to make a run, in my opinion.

Remember, 2 out of the last 3 years, we didn't even make the playoffs after hot starts, and november/december collapses.

I will be very nervous next sunday. I think that's the game that makes or breaks our season. Best case scenario, we win, while the Redskins and Cowboys lose against their AFC North opponents. Worst case, we lose, and the Redskins win, to take over the lead in the division, having tons of momentum and an easy schedule save for the Cowboys in the last game, who may or may not have anything to play for.

Giantsfan1080
12-04-2012, 05:09 PM
Even then I don't want him back. At this point, him starting holds our team back. I rather just replace him outright and look to improve that position with some new blood.

I hope he retires and makes the decision easy for us, but he probably won't

I think he would still be effective in a limited role.

I wouldn't be surprised if he retired. He's already thought about it before.

Malaka
12-04-2012, 06:26 PM
We need to win 2 games to make the playoffs.

I don't care about the division. Redskins can win out for all I care. I want to be in the playoffs.

I think the Seahawks go 2-2 and I think we go 2-2 with wins against Baltimore and the Eagles in the remaining games. Difference is, Seahawks do not have a single division win.

2 wins and were in the playoffs whether that is as a wildcard or division leaders.

Besides that, I think this Saints team is extremely beatable in their down year and on our own turf. If we show up to play... if we don't we are going to get scorched and then I have to pray the Ravens beat the Redskins or else RGIII's knob will get slobbed all over ESPN for that whole week as they take the divisional lead.

Rosebud
12-05-2012, 09:12 AM
When we rape the Ravens and Falcons is NYG still going to be crying about the sky falling?

Big_Pete
12-05-2012, 02:58 PM
I am really dissappointed that we have let Dallas and Washington back in the playoff race, there is no margin for error.

Let's face it, the NFC East is full of bad teams and we still haven't been able to put it away.

Sure we are right in the playoff race and there is a decent chance we get hot right at the end of the season (again) for a strong playoff run. We should make the playoffs and you can be sure we are the team opponents will least want to face.

It does worry me that our team is still so hot and cold. This is our 9th season under Coughlin, why haven't we been able to get some consistency?

NY+Giants=NYG
12-05-2012, 05:24 PM
When we rape the Ravens and Falcons is NYG still going to be crying about the sky falling?

You must be watching a different Giants team. Whatever you are smoking, snorting, or shooting up, pass that here.

Rosebud
12-06-2012, 03:07 AM
You must be watching a different Giants team. Whatever you are smoking, snorting, or shooting up, pass that here.

Just the one that completely destroyed the 9ers and Packers, the two best teams in the NFC and arguably the league.

I am really dissappointed that we have let Dallas and Washington back in the playoff race, there is no margin for error.

Let's face it, the NFC East is full of bad teams and we still haven't been able to put it away.

Sure we are right in the playoff race and there is a decent chance we get hot right at the end of the season (again) for a strong playoff run. We should make the playoffs and you can be sure we are the team opponents will least want to face.

It does worry me that our team is still so hot and cold. This is our 9th season under Coughlin, why haven't we been able to get some consistency?

We've been very consistent, play like crap when we're front running and there's no pressure, play amazing once our backs are to the wall and the pressure is huge.

bigbluedefense
12-06-2012, 08:25 AM
I will say this:

I hate Justin Tuck's "leadership"

He's always making excuses, moping around, never rallying the guys. Coughlin comes out and says we have to win all of our games, and then Tuck says no we don't.

What kind of leadership is that? I'm really getting sick of Tuck.

Giantsfan1080
12-06-2012, 08:36 AM
Ehh that's overrated BBD. Just like how everyone use to get on Eli for not showing enough emotion. Tuck usually does the pregame fire up and everyone is rocking at that point.

cmarq83
12-06-2012, 08:46 AM
I will say this:

I hate Justin Tuck's "leadership"

He's always making excuses, moping around, never rallying the guys. Coughlin comes out and says we have to win all of our games, and then Tuck says no we don't.

What kind of leadership is that? I'm really getting sick of Tuck.

I for one am looking forward to seeing how the Giants manage their roster in the next couple of years. They have lots of big contracts to sign (Cruz, JPP, Nicks, Phillips) and a good chunk of well paid veterans that are going to need to be shown the door in order to keep those guy around. I definitely think that Tuck could easily be one of those guys who gets shown the door with his injuries and diminishing production.

bigbluedefense
12-06-2012, 08:47 AM
I moreso have a problem with him constantly making excuses. Well we went 9-7 last year and won, well we don't have to win every game, well we slumped before and bounced back etc.

Stop making excuses, be a leader, and hold people accountable. It's really annoying.

Giantsfan1080
12-06-2012, 08:50 AM
I for one am looking forward to seeing how the Giants manage their roster in the next couple of years. They have lots of big contracts to sign (Cruz, JPP, Nicks, Phillips) and a good chunk of well paid veterans that are going to need to be shown the door in order to keep those guy around. I definitely think that Tuck could easily be one of those guys who gets shown the door with his injuries and diminishing production.

Yeah we've been discussing that for awhile here. Nobody really knows what direction we're going to take but it makes it a little more difficult because Nicks and Phillips are always banged up. When healthy they're great and deserve a big payday but we're not sure how Reese will proceed with them.

Giantsfan1080
12-06-2012, 08:56 AM
I moreso have a problem with him constantly making excuses. Well we went 9-7 last year and won, well we don't have to win every game, well we slumped before and bounced back etc.

Stop making excuses, be a leader, and hold people accountable. It's really annoying.

I haven't seen any specific quotes but it's one of the reasons why some people think we're not going to do anything this year because we rely too much on making a run when our backs are against the wall.

cmarq83
12-06-2012, 09:02 AM
Yeah we've been discussing that for awhile here. Nobody really knows what direction we're going to take but it makes it a little more difficult because Nicks and Phillips are always banged up. When healthy they're great and deserve a big payday but we're not sure how Reese will proceed with them.

It's definitely a tough question for any successful team. The key is having enough guys on their first contracts to make it all work, signing the right guys to their second contracts, and being proactive about letting go veterans at the right time. The Patriots have the same problem with guys like Vollmer and Spikes. Both are huge talents, but they were much riskier bets than guys like Gronk and Mayo. In the next 2 or so years we may need to consider jettisoning guys like Mankins to make it all work.

I think you guys should at least start by getting rid of the bloated contracts you have on the O-line with Diehl and Snee. Also, Osi and Tuck should go soon as well. Webster is interesting because I know he struggled at the beginning of the season, but how does he look now? His cap # is pretty large and could be on the chopping block as well.

There is nothing worse than losing solid periphery guys like Bennett and Beatty, and trying to fill them with budget veteran gambles. The Pats did this in 09 and it blew up in their face.

Do the Giants have a dedicated salary cap page? I've been looking for one, but I can't seem to find it.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-06-2012, 09:16 AM
Just the one that completely destroyed the 9ers and Packers, the two best teams in the NFC and arguably the league.



We've been very consistent, play like crap when we're front running and there's no pressure, play amazing once our backs are to the wall and the pressure is huge.

49ers was way back when things were rolling and the packers, while a great win, had a bunch of nobodies on defense and their OL is garbage.

Pretty much what I said I have been saying since the start of the season with inability to score in the redzone. I felt we had issues.on offense and that was red zone offense and our system which I was right about.

Either way, I am honest with what I see. If we do well I give props which I dis after the 9ers game. If we suck I will say we do. That's how I coached and that's how I always done things.

Right now our offense has issues. Specifically in the red zone we are piss poor. I don't trust or like Fewell though I have noticed he can surprise. But I will always be blunt and honest with what I see. That's never going to change.

Giantsfan1080
12-06-2012, 09:42 AM
We've had red zone issues since 2006. This isn't anything new.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-06-2012, 10:31 AM
Not to this extent and now its becoming an issue this season. We are simply not converting our chances into TDs. I knew the skins game would play out like that. We kick 2 FGs go up by 6 and they score and go up by 1. Then like we always we say Eli will bail us out and get surprised when that's not the case.

Hopefully this week we can kick more FGs than Brees can pass TDs.

Giantsfan1080
12-06-2012, 10:36 AM
Yes it has been this bad before. Go back and look at the numbers. One year we were 1st in Red Zone attempts and like 22nd in Red Zone TD's. Our vertical offense has always had trouble converting into TD's.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-06-2012, 11:15 AM
Yes it has been this bad before. Go back and look at the numbers. One year we were 1st in Red Zone attempts and like 22nd in Red Zone TD's. Our vertical offense has always had trouble converting into TD's.

Do you remember what year this was off the.top of.your head? Either way, this is happening this season and.its hurting us more.so.now. we will see if this.game.is.any different but its amazing how we keep screwing around in the red zone and fail to convert our chances.

Stupid phone keyboard keeps adding periods randomly.

Giantsfan1080
12-06-2012, 11:41 AM
I think it was actually 2008 when our D was playing at a top 5 level.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-06-2012, 01:10 PM
I think it was actually 2008 when our D was playing at a top 5 level.

Yeah that was the year after the super bowl, with Spags being good. Also, I asked because that was the 2nd full year with Gilbride as the OC. So things were still being changed and modified. In my opinion, those were crucial years because since 2007, Eli has gotten better and the offense has opened up from the days of Hufangel and living in the I pro sets.

Now this should not be happening. Gilbride is still here, and Eli is more mature and confident in himself now then probably back then. I still can't believe this is happening to this extent right now.

Again, I will be recording and watching this offense closely with a fine tooth comb.

Giantsfan1080
12-06-2012, 02:07 PM
Like I said every year we've hgad trouble this. It's been very consistent. Every year we rank high in red zone attempts but low in scoring TD's down there.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-06-2012, 02:46 PM
Like I said every year we've hgad trouble this. It's been very consistent. Every year we rank high in red zone attempts but low in scoring TD's down there.

And this is something that if we fixed we can get to a higher level. This year this inefficiency is hurting us especially now. The play calling is something I dislike, as well as the system, specifically the WR sight adjustment rules. I also think now the system has been exposed in terms of route reading by the opponent.

I talked with BBD about this. I hope it can change or be adjusted, but in terms of the system I highly doubt it. The play calling can but we have to be aggressive!

If this game turns into a shootout, I really hope our offense can be effective when it counts, and that means in the red zone.

Malaka
12-06-2012, 08:11 PM
I am praying for bad weather. Our running game has been solid and we can survive an ugly game through a storm. The Saints are a team that depend on clear skies and no wind to air it out.

Rain and wind please.

OSUGiants17
12-06-2012, 08:13 PM
I am praying for bad weather. Our running game has been solid and we can survive an ugly game through a storm. The Saints are a team that depend on clear skies and no wind to air it out.

Rain and wind please.

Sunday's forecast for the Medowlands is a high of 45 with a 50% chance of rain....YES!

bigbluedefense
12-06-2012, 09:57 PM
Yeah. The only problem with that is the Saints have a better run game than us.

So it won't help.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-07-2012, 03:52 AM
Yeah. The only problem with that is the Saints have a better run game than us.

So it won't help.

The Saints are horrible at stopping the run though. Dead last in the NFL, by a lot. They allow 5.14 YPC, and the second worst team allow 4.79 YPC.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2012, 08:27 AM
We're not exactly the 2000 Ravens vs the run ourselves.

Giantsfan1080
12-07-2012, 08:34 AM
This could be Wilson's breakout game with that porous run defense. We need to let him get in a groove and at least give him one full drive. This one and done stuff is garbage.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2012, 08:37 AM
They clearly don't like Wilson right now. They give him a carry here and there, have no trust with him regarding pass pro. I think it's telling that a guy we picked up off the street was in pass pro 3 days later and Wilson doesn't get that chance.

So there is more to this than we know. Either the coaching staff doesn't like him, doesn't trust him, or just hates playing rookies.

I think its a combination of all 3.

Giantsfan1080
12-07-2012, 08:48 AM
Well i didn't like the pick at the time and I still don't but we need to throw him into the fire. He does have the speed and agility to make a difference.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-07-2012, 10:38 AM
Yeah. The only problem with that is the Saints have a better run game than us.

So it won't help.

Not to mention, that would be dicey for us. Rain and wind for a team that needs to kick FGs. Yeah.... no thanks, I think I would snap if we made it to the red zone, stalled out, attempted to kick a FG, AND MISSED!

bigbluedefense
12-07-2012, 11:52 AM
Well i didn't like the pick at the time and I still don't but we need to throw him into the fire. He does have the speed and agility to make a difference.

I liked the pick. Wasn't my first choice, but I did like it. I had Wilson as my #2 back in the draft, so I'm sticking with my guns on that. I typically hate drafting RBs in the 1st though.

Rookies just don't make an impact for us. That's just how it is. The 07 class only made an impact bc we had no choice, our depth was thin all over and we needed that rookie class to fill holes.

But now with the quality of our depth bc of Reese, we take it slow with our guys. I'm not panicking. Just have to realize and accept the fact that our rookies won't make any impact this year.

Giantsfan1080
12-07-2012, 12:30 PM
Well we have no choice right now with Wilson and Randle and these guys aren't stepping up.

Forenci
12-07-2012, 12:35 PM
Maybe, or the coaches aren't giving them the opportunities. How can Randle expect to learn one of the most complicated offenses in the league as a rookie?

How can Wilson prove himself when we don't give him any carries?

Giantsfan1080
12-07-2012, 12:39 PM
Either that or the coaches want to give them the opportunities but they're not just not ready. I'm sorry but a 1st round RB should be able to get more carries after 3/4 of a season. Randle I'll give a little more leeway to for obvious reasons but to me it's a terrible sign if we don't trust Wilson at this juncture when we absolutely need help back there.

Rosebud
12-07-2012, 02:20 PM
Eh, it's disappointing but I wouldn't say it's a terrible sign until it's the second half of his sophomore season and we're still giving him a carry every blue moon, and I to disliked the pick a lot, especially with Cordy Glenn still on the board.

Malaka
12-07-2012, 02:20 PM
Either that or the coaches want to give them the opportunities but they're not just not ready. I'm sorry but a 1st round RB should be able to get more carries after 3/4 of a season. Randle I'll give a little more leeway to for obvious reasons but to me it's a terrible sign if we don't trust Wilson at this juncture when we absolutely need help back there.

I am forced to agree. At this point of the season back in 07' Bradshaw was seeing significant time... as a 7th round pick.

Wilson has the ability... but does he have what it takes to see playing time in Coughlin's offense?

i.e less fumbling issues, and pass-pro

Rosebud
12-07-2012, 02:24 PM
I don't think Bradshaw got any burn before that Buffalo game the day before christmas, right?

Malaka
12-07-2012, 02:28 PM
I don't think Bradshaw got any burn before that Buffalo game the day before christmas, right?

Actually you are right. But the fact that Wilson is still hardly used despite being a first round pick this far into the season is still a bit disheartening.

If Wilson can't get a fair share of carries by playoff time, I would be even more concerned.

On a side note, I find it interesting that Bradshaw fell so far into the draft for character concerns. He has been a pretty good citizen with General Coughlin and I would considered him a leader on our team.

Rosebud
12-07-2012, 02:40 PM
It's disappointing, but I'm not gunna start worrying about him until this time next year.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2012, 03:50 PM
Speaking of 07 Bradshaw, you guys should check out how he used to run back then?

COMPLETELY different player from today's Bradshaw. It's not even close.

Giantsfan1080
12-07-2012, 05:37 PM
Speaking of 07 Bradshaw, you guys should check out how he used to run back then?

COMPLETELY different player from today's Bradshaw. It's not even close.

Shows how quickly these poor RB's get beat up.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-08-2012, 09:54 AM
Speaking of 07 Bradshaw, you guys should check out how he used to run back then?

COMPLETELY different player from today's Bradshaw. It's not even close.

5 and 6 seasons makes a huge difference especially if you keep getting leg injuries. I like his toughness and how even now even if he is hurt he keeps on going.

His stats aren't bad at all for a guy beat up on an average OL. He has a 4.5 YPA with 836 yards this season. He already has the 2nd most yards in his career. Say what you want this guy still gets a good YPA and he is tough as nails. I always liked that trait about him.

Funny thing is Bradshaw is only 26 years old.

bigbluedefense
12-08-2012, 12:43 PM
I read an article awhile back comparing the collisions that an NFL RB faces in the hole to car accidents. Saying that the impact feels like getting into a car accident.

So naturally you'd think that having 230 to 300 car accidents every year for 4 + years would take its toll on the body.

Forenci
12-08-2012, 12:47 PM
It's the leg injuries more than anything I think. Too many leg, ankle, foot, etc. injuries. That will kill you as a running back. Even more so than knee injuries these days.

bigbluedefense
12-08-2012, 12:51 PM
I don't want to make a blanket statement, but 95% of the time, I'd be very hesitant to extend any RB beyond their rookie contracts. That 5% is strictly for the Adrian Petersons/Lesean McCoys of the world.

bigbluedefense
12-08-2012, 12:51 PM
Unless they come back for cheap.

Malaka
12-08-2012, 12:57 PM
McCoy has so little mileage it's scary. He's gonna be a pain in the ass for the Giants for a long time. Partly due to Reid's stubbornness...

bigbluedefense
12-08-2012, 12:58 PM
Bryce Brown is pretty darn good too.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-08-2012, 09:48 PM
I wonder if we should change our running scheme to a ZBS.. I like how they can keep the OL integrity and keep the plug and play system going. Morris for the redskins gets on the field and goes VERY well. This rookie for the Eagles does well. Makes me get annoyed with Wilson. Who does these other players do well? I understand the logistics for Wilson, but damn, I wish we can change the whole system.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 10:28 AM
Let's get pumped for this! We need this one badly, hopefully we can get an early lead and keep piling on. It would be great to be aggressive and pay the Saints back for kicking our butts last 3 times.

OSUGiants17
12-09-2012, 02:28 PM
I got a good feeling about David Wilson today, I think he has his best game of the year and breaks off a few big runs, one of them for a score.

Forenci
12-09-2012, 02:40 PM
I'm so upset. Is there any legal way to watch the game from a computer without paying?

I'm at work so I can't watch it via TV but I do have a computer.

OSUGiants17
12-09-2012, 03:31 PM
Glad to see Jacquian Williams back, we need him to help shut down Graham with KP out

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 03:55 PM
Great red zone efficiency so far! That's what I want to see and how I know we can play. KEEP THIS UP NOW!

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 04:03 PM
Wow WIlson is fast in the passing game. Keep feeding him!

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 04:20 PM
Our offense needs to move the ball now. No turnovers or penalties and let's get another TD!

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 04:32 PM
2nd red zone trip yields a missed FG. Can't have that stuff happen!

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 04:53 PM
2/3 in the red zone converting them into TDs! That's the efficiency we need and have the potential of doing! Great stuff!

OSUGiants17
12-09-2012, 04:58 PM
Wow, we have the TDs and they have the FGs. I'm liking this, but it feels so weird

scottyboy
12-09-2012, 04:59 PM
and this is with us throwing a pick 6 and having a missed FG

OSUGiants17
12-09-2012, 05:00 PM
Wilson has changed this game completely

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 05:03 PM
Wow, we have the TDs and they have the FGs. I'm liking this, but it feels so weird

This is good! I like this and very happy with our efficient red zone ways AND look, we have the lead! It's funny how that works out. But we still have a whole half to go, so we can't stall out like we did in the 2nd half of the skins game. We have to keep converting our red zone chances into Tds.

We have the potential, and talent, so it's good to see us utilizing that.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-09-2012, 05:06 PM
Wilson has changed this game completely

He has been so money on kick returns. It feels strange looking forward to kick returns now. Not like the days of Darius Reynaud. Hopefully they'll win this game!

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 05:11 PM
Red zone chance # 4 under way..

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 05:14 PM
YESSSS! 3/4 red zone efficiency! That's how you do it! That's what I want to see every game or throughout the season. We have the potential and ability!

And look, we pushed the lead too! This is a great game in regards to our efficiency. I am very happy with this!

OSUGiants17
12-09-2012, 05:15 PM
Very happy with how this game is goin right now. This is the type of game the players need to feel good and keep momentum going late in the year.

OSUGiants17
12-09-2012, 05:17 PM
I got a good feeling about David Wilson today, I think he has his best game of the year and breaks off a few big runs, one of them for a score.

Hate to toot my own horn, but Wilson has been huge so far today. 200+ return yards, KR TD and rushing TD. And it's only the start of the 3rd

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 05:26 PM
Not technically in the red zone, but that was a between the 20s efficiency. We are playing like very well and even though the Saints D isn't that good the great thing I like is the red zone efficiency.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 05:42 PM
Perry Fewell's scheme is having issues in zone. Perfect on those guys are just sitting in the window and waiting for the ball.

OSUGiants17
12-09-2012, 05:45 PM
I really hope we draft Khaseem Greene in the 2nd next year. A future LB core of Williams-Herz-Greene sounds good to me, maybe even get a different MIKE.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 05:48 PM
I have no faith in Fewell. We need to keep our red zone efficiency! We can't go limp now. Keep the good game going!

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 05:51 PM
4/5 in red zone efficiency! THAT'S WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!

OSUGiants17
12-09-2012, 05:51 PM
I have no faith in Fewell. We need to keep our red zone efficiency! We can't go limp now. Keep the good game going!

Eli to Cruz. Great red zone offense today

BigBlueNorwegian
12-09-2012, 05:53 PM
I have no faith in Fewell. We need to keep our red zone efficiency! We can't go limp now. Keep the good game going!

And we did! That was a nasty route by Cruz!

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 05:53 PM
Eli to Cruz. Great red zone offense today

We are capable of this WHEN WE ARE AGGRESSIVE! See, we can't sit back so we are forced to play balls to the wall. We have the talent, potential, to be SO MUCH better on offense. This is what I see! We can be consistently a good offensive red zone team.

4/5 4 TDs! That's freaking amazing! If we played like this Eli can get over 30 Tds on a regular basis.

OSUGiants17
12-09-2012, 05:57 PM
Can't be afraid to bury a team and throw away the conservative/balanced offense. Go with what works and bury teams. This offense has a top 5 QB and one of the best WR duos in the league with some solid RBs, we can be a top offense if we want to be with ease

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 06:01 PM
This is why I never liked the balanced philosophy and kill the game with a high TOP. Just play what our strengths are. Last game we were worried about balance and TOP. We couldn't own the 31st ranked pass defense.

I like when we are aggressive in the red zone. 4 Tds for Eli is like 6 for AR, Peyton, Brees or anyone else.

This is how good we can be when we don't worry about killing the clock or balance. We have the potential to be such a good red zone team.

OSUGiants17
12-09-2012, 06:02 PM
This is why I never liked the balanced philosophy and kill the game with a high TOP. Just play what our strengths are. Last game we were worried about balance and TOP. We couldn't own the 31st ranked pass defense.

I like when we are aggressive in the red zone. 4 Tds for Eli is like 6 for AR, Peyton, Brees or anyone else.

This is how good we can be when we don't worry about killing the clock or balance. We have the potential to be such a good red zone team.

Yea last week we clearly needed to just blow the top off that D, but didn't wanna abandon the run when we should have


WOOOOOOO Stevie Brown!

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 06:05 PM
6 time in the red zone!

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 06:05 PM
That was a bush league series. That run was killing the clock BS! That's the thing I can't stand.

4/6

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 06:15 PM
Wilson is doing great! Keep feeding him the rock!

BigBlueNorwegian
12-09-2012, 06:27 PM
Damn! If we could just block a little more consistently for David Wilson, he'd be breaking off long TDs all day.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 06:40 PM
4/6 today in the red zone! That's the great news which I am very happy about! Good win and just great red zone efficiency which we needed.

Forenci
12-09-2012, 06:45 PM
Break out game for Wilson. Really exciting to see that. He could be really special with his speed and break away ability. And he had a nice catch that got called back too.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 08:46 PM
I watched Tuck today and damn he is going downhill quickly. I never realized how bad his stats are. He was once a 76 tackle guy in 2010 and I think 11.5 sacks. He has 36 tackles and 3 sacks with 3 games left.

gpngc
12-09-2012, 09:11 PM
Nice attempt at scoring the most points today. pffft.

Giantsfan1080
12-09-2012, 09:30 PM
You guys are so over the top. The Saints D is horrible. I can't believe the Redskins and Boys both won with last second come from behind FG's.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-09-2012, 09:44 PM
Nice attempt at scoring the most points today. pffft.

The last time we scored 50 plus points was 1986 I think they said. Not to mention the Saints dropped 60 on the Colts if I remember correctly.

gpngc
12-09-2012, 10:06 PM
I think Seattle @ NYG might be Wild Card weekend.........

Giantsfan1080
12-09-2012, 10:22 PM
I think Seattle @ NYG might be Wild Card weekend.........

We'd kill you.

gpngc
12-09-2012, 10:23 PM
We'd kill you.

Just like last year.

We've downgraded from the T-Jack/Whitehurst duo that came into NY and beat you...

Giantsfan1080
12-09-2012, 10:25 PM
Just like last year.

We've downgraded from the T-Jack/Whitehurst duo that came into NY and beat you...

It's the playoffs if that happens. No overlooking a mediocre team.

BaLLiN
12-10-2012, 02:12 AM
Browner and Sherman will be suspended right?

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 07:42 AM
Browner and Sherman will be suspended right?

Yes that's also part of why I think we'd kill them.

LonghornsLegend
12-10-2012, 07:56 AM
David Wilson!! Love that kid. This is what you miss out on when you have him standing around on the sidelines. I know Coughlin is a hard ***, but come on, this guy is oozing talent. I never doubted him for a second even with the lack of playing time. He's special and I've said it since day one.

Forenci
12-10-2012, 09:26 AM
Haha, you were right for sure, LL. I think I liked the pick more than most here, but there's no doubt he can be special.

His quickness and break away speed are absurd. I honestly can't remember us ever having a running back who made DB's look slow. Even Tiki or Bradshaw early in his career never had that kind of speed.

scottyboy
12-10-2012, 09:29 AM
yeah i watched him on kick returns and handoffs and i've never seen a back with that type of acceleration and speed. Hell, the saints returner looked like a lineman compared to Wilson with the way they both hit the hole

Forenci
12-10-2012, 09:32 AM
I think they said Wilson is the only player in NFL history to have 200 return yards and 100 rushing yards. Pretty cool if you ask me.

There is no excuse for him to get more touches at this point.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 09:33 AM
He better get the majority of touches. He has fresh legs and has game breaking speed that can really make this offense elite.

scottyboy
12-10-2012, 09:34 AM
i love we had him run the wheel route against the LB. get him out in space and BOOM! too bad Ramses sucks and messed it up. But it's good to see we can get creative with him.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-10-2012, 09:46 AM
I liked how we threw to Wilson. I would love to see him run more routes. I am not sure there are a lot of guys who can keep up with him in terms of quickness.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 11:00 AM
Thinking about it and 10-6 should get us in whether it's the division or wild card. We have to go 2-1 in the last three here.

Malaka
12-10-2012, 11:45 AM
After watching the Falcons get taken down by the Panthers. I think we have a great shot at that game. The Ravens will be tough but after losing to the Roethlisberger-less Steelers and then losing in overtime in to the RG3-less Redskins, I think we have a good shot there too... although they fired Cam Cameron which probably will make things better for them. The Eagles are terrible but they would love to cause problems for our season. If we go 2-0 we probably lose to the Eagles just because Giants since a playoff berth is probably locked up.

If we split the next two games. I am confident we curb stomp the flightless Eagles. Our season would be on the line at that point.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-10-2012, 11:46 AM
If we can keep that red zone efficiency at a high level i am confident. That's why the bengals lost. Stupid team took a page out of our book in red zone inefficiency!

4/4 in FGs

At the 7 yard like and kicked a FG
At the Dallas 15 and kicked a FG
At the Dallas 7 and kicked a FG

At the Dallas 34 and kicked a FG but that's not in the red zone.



If we keep our red zone scoring up we can do some damage. Like I said throughout the game, we have the talent and potential is there. I like the we put our foot on the gas pedal without worrying about TOP or balance or stuff like that. Play our game and keep the foot on their throat and don't take it out. When we do that we do very well. I was very, very pleased with being 4/6.

scottyboy
12-10-2012, 11:47 AM
all 3 games are winnable. In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if we win these next 2 and lose to the eagles. Especially if Vick and Shady play.

I'm actually fairly impressed by our D yesterday. bend but don't break actually worked against a really high powered O. Roddy and Julio are a big test for Webster and Prince though. Should be fun.

Also, with Boley and especially Jacquain, I love how we're not the team that TE's DESTROY anymore. It's refreshing to see. Outside of Witten, we've held all the good TE's we've faced this season in check IIRC

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 11:48 AM
After watching the Falcons get taken down by the Panthers. I think we have a great shot at that game. The Ravens will be tough but after losing to the Roethlisberger-less Steelers and then losing in overtime in to the RG3-less Redskins, I think we have a good shot there too... although they fired Cam Cameron which probably will make things better for them. The Eagles are terrible but they would love to cause problems for our season. If we go 2-0 we probably lose to the Eagles just because Giants since a playoff berth is probably locked up.

If we split the next two games. I am confident we curb stomp the flightless Eagles. Our season would be on the line at that point.

Agreed. None of the teams scare me but you just never know what Giants team will show up. I'm glad these 2 games are on the road.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 11:51 AM
all 3 games are winnable. In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if we win these next 2 and lose to the eagles. Especially if Vick and Shady play.

I'm actually fairly impressed by our D yesterday. bend but don't break actually worked against a really high powered O. Roddy and Julio are a big test for Webster and Prince though. Should be fun.

Also, with Boley and especially Jacquain, I love how we're not the team that TE's DESTROY anymore. It's refreshing to see. Outside of Witten, we've held all the good TE's we've faced this season in check IIRC

Unless Foles gets hurt he's starting the rest of the year. You know the Eagles will want to send Reid out with a W in what's sure to be his last game coaching for that team.

The thing that worries me about our D is that we are so reliant on the turnover. If we don't get any TO's teams just gash us so easily.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 12:09 PM
Giants/Ravens game moved to 4:25.

Malaka
12-10-2012, 12:19 PM
Unless Foles gets hurt he's starting the rest of the year. You know the Eagles will want to send Reid out with a W in what's sure to be his last game coaching for that team.

The thing that worries me about our D is that we are so reliant on the turnover. If we don't get any TO's teams just gash us so easily.

This is almost all Cover 2 defenses. We live and die by the turnover.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-10-2012, 12:54 PM
And pass rush as a def. philosophy.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 02:57 PM
Williams being back is so huge.

I hope Prince is healthy for the Falcons game. We need him against White and Jones.

bigbluedefense
12-10-2012, 03:13 PM
Lets calm down guys. That was an anemic defense we went against. And we had great field position all game.

Having that said, how typical is it, we can beat the Packers and Saints of the world then lay an egg vs the Redskins.

Gotta finish the season strong. Washington has a very easy schedule. I expect Dallas to falter towards the end but Washington is dangerous. That's why that loss hurt so much.

Also, David Wilson. That's why I liked the pick. Didn't love it. But liked it. He showed us why yesterday.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 03:18 PM
I said the same thing last night BBD. It's hard to tell where we are offensively against as crappy a D as I've seen in a long time.

I've been pretty even keeled with this team all year though so I'm not super high from the game last night just as I wasn't super upset with the Redskins loss.

It was a killer that both teams won with FG's after being down most of the game. If Griffin is hurt I don't see how they take the division though.

We just need to get to 10 wins and we should have a playoff spot locked up this year at that number. It's going to be tough but these are the games Eli and the D live for.

I'm glad Wilson did what he had to do. I don't know if he's ever going to be a RB that can get 25 carries a game for a full season though and I do think he's a tough runner and not only a speedy guy. If he loses his acceleration over time because the hits add up then he's not the same player we need him to be.

bigbluedefense
12-10-2012, 03:22 PM
The game out of the last 3 that scares me the most is ironically the Philly game. It will be Fat Andy's final game as coach of the Eagles. And they get to spoil our playoff chances, the team that has given Reid the most fits during his time there in Philly.

You know they want to get him a W on his way out. And let's face it, they own us. That's the game that scares me the most.

I do think we have a good chance to get to 10 though. Baltimore has a sick home game record though. They look like a beatable team but it all depends on what Giants team shows up.

I'm still concerned about our offense. And our pass rush just isn't there this year.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 03:26 PM
The game out of the last 3 that scares me the most is ironically the Philly game. It will be Fat Andy's final game as coach of the Eagles. And they get to spoil our playoff chances, the team that has given Reid the most fits during his time there in Philly.

You know they want to get him a W on his way out. And let's face it, they own us. That's the game that scares me the most.

I do think we have a good chance to get to 10 though. Baltimore has a sick home game record though. They look like a beatable team but it all depends on what Giants team shows up.

I'm still concerned about our offense. And our pass rush just isn't there this year.

Yup I said the same thing earlier about the Eagles. The Falcons and Ravens both have amazing home records over the past few years but we live for that ****. 2-1 is what we need.

bigbluedefense
12-10-2012, 03:28 PM
I think 2-1 is realistic. 3-0 is probably not gonna happen.

I will say this. If we win this week, I'm almost positive we lose next week. Bc the Giants are just that team. Why play hard when all we have to do is beat the Eagles next week right? Let's take this week off.

That's just the Giant way.

bigbluedefense
12-10-2012, 03:28 PM
And Justin Tuck's diminished ass is gonna lead the oh well we'll just get em next week charge.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 03:31 PM
Tuck had a good first half even though it didn't result in a sack for himself. I still think he's pretty done but I'm not going to get on him. I think he really steps up when it matters now.

bigbluedefense
12-10-2012, 03:35 PM
I just don't see it anymore. He can't set the edge anymore, he has no speed or burst, and even his bullrush isn't what it used to be. He's just a guy now. JPP and Osi are our best DEs.

We need Canty to get back to 2011 Canty too.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 03:40 PM
I just don't see it anymore. He can't set the edge anymore, he has no speed or burst, and even his bullrush isn't what it used to be. He's just a guy now. JPP and Osi are our best DEs.

We need Canty to get back to 2011 Canty too.

Injuries have killed him but re-watch the first half. He got a really good push on a good amount of plays. It's the best I've seen from him in a few games so I'm a little encouraged but he's still probably our 4th best DE now. Kiwi is ahead of him also. I think he starts to regain his form though as he did last year at this time.

Forenci
12-10-2012, 03:49 PM
I said the same thing last night BBD. It's hard to tell where we are offensively against as crappy a D as I've seen in a long time.

I've been pretty even keeled with this team all year though so I'm not super high from the game last night just as I wasn't super upset with the Redskins loss.

It was a killer that both teams won with FG's after being down most of the game. If Griffin is hurt I don't see how they take the division though.

We just need to get to 10 wins and we should have a playoff spot locked up this year at that number. It's going to be tough but these are the games Eli and the D live for.

I'm glad Wilson did what he had to do. I don't know if he's ever going to be a RB that can get 25 carries a game for a full season though and I do think he's a tough runner and not only a speedy guy. If he loses his acceleration over time because the hits add up then he's not the same player we need him to be.

That's pretty much every RB these days though. Almost no back gets 25 carries a game, outside the Adrian Peterson's of the world. And if any RB loses their acceleration they are going to not be the same guy. Even slow backs like Brandon Jacobs.

bigbluedefense
12-10-2012, 03:51 PM
Shelf life of a RB is 4 years to me anyway. I don't mind running RBs into the ground in their rookie contracts, as selfish as that sounds.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 03:54 PM
Well when they are first round picks they need to be more than 4 year guys. Unless you have an elite back that's the way you do it BBD.

49'ers have released Jacobs it looks like. I bet he's back with us by the end of the week.

Forenci
12-10-2012, 03:54 PM
Just depends on the back, injuries, etc. I could see a back like Wilson lasting because he's so damn fast he avoids a lot of contact.

Keep in mind Wilson was only a one year starter.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 03:57 PM
Just depends on the back, injuries, etc. I could see a back like Wilson lasting because he's so damn fast he avoids a lot of contact.

Keep in mind Wilson was only a one year starter.

That's a very good point. I was more impressed with his first TD run yesterday than anything else though. He is probably pegged as a speed guy but he runs tough taking on Vilma there. It was very good to see. I hope he gets the lion share of carries. It's going to be very interesting if we bring Jacobs in now.

Forenci
12-10-2012, 03:59 PM
I hope not. Never been a huge fan of Jacobs antics and he's garbage.

I laugh now when people were giving us a hard time because we never made Jacobs do squats and how he was going to have a great year because of their strength training.

bigbluedefense
12-10-2012, 04:00 PM
Well when they are first round picks they need to be more than 4 year guys. Unless you have an elite back that's the way you do it BBD.

49'ers have released Jacobs it looks like. I bet he's back with us by the end of the week.

4 years is a long time. Most players don't last past 4 years in this league. Especially running backs. If i can get 4 years of great play from a RB while giving him the motherload, I'll take that.

It all depends on how we use the guy really.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 04:01 PM
I wouldn't mind bringing him back. He still excellent at blitz pick up and he has no mileage on him this year. He'd be a very tough runner for us and is better than Torain and Lumpkin. I hope he comes back.

bigbluedefense
12-10-2012, 04:01 PM
I want Jacobs back too. He'll be fresh too. As long as he doesn't take too many touches away from Wilson. Although I have a bad feeling that if we do bring him back, Wilson goes back into the abyss.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 04:01 PM
4 years is a long time. Most players don't last past 4 years in this league. Especially running backs. If i can get 4 years of great play from a RB while giving him the motherload, I'll take that.

It all depends on how we use the guy really.

If you get a great 4 years from a 1st round RB you're re-signing him though. Very doubtful a GM would let a 1st round elite RB walk.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-10-2012, 04:04 PM
I hope not. Never been a huge fan of Jacobs antics and he's garbage.

I laugh now when people were giving us a hard time because we never made Jacobs do squats and how he was going to have a great year because of their strength training.

I never been a fan of him either. You'd think he'd learn at 30 years old to shut his trap and realize he signed onto a team with a situation like that.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 04:06 PM
He's a good leader in the clubhouse also. I don't see any downside to him coming back especially if Bradshaw injury keeps him out for a few games.

bigbluedefense
12-10-2012, 04:07 PM
I love Jacobs. Every team needs an ignorant moron who fires everyone up. Jacobs was that guy for us.

Giantsfan1080
12-10-2012, 04:09 PM
Well there goes that. He was suspended for the remainder of the season not released. I figured they'd do that instead of letting him come back to NY.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-10-2012, 04:10 PM
BBD, lol. Haha

Rosebud
12-10-2012, 07:03 PM
I dunno bout you guys but I'm ready to push the panic button now...

BigBlueNorwegian
12-10-2012, 07:33 PM
I dunno bout you guys but I'm ready to push the panic button now...

This smartass comment is probably for me and NYG, since we were the guys panicking the most earlier?

If so, just like you don't feel any more reason to panic when they lose like for example last week, I don't feel any less reason to have doubts about this team based on yesterdays game. The Saints special teams royally ****** them over, and their defense gave up as the game went along.

I don't feel any safer in their playoff chances than I did last week, based on yesterdays results. The Redskins and Cowboys also won, and especially the Redskins schedule is a cakewalk compared to the Giants.

Like I said earlier in the year, I hope they make the playoffs, and I think the Giants ultimately will claw their way in there. But I don't feel as good about their chances of going on a deep playoff run, and possibly winning, as I did last year.

Big_Pete
12-10-2012, 07:59 PM
I actually think the tough schedule and having Dallas and Washington biting at our heels is a good thing. There is no margin for error and we have to perform, otherwise if we falter we are out. I don't think any of the remaining games will be easy.

We perform our best when our backs are against the wall, so if we do make it against tough teams then we will likely have some form going into the playoffs, where all bets are off.

I am confident we will get the job done, but if we don't we did certainly have our chances this season.

There is likely to be a bit of player turnover after the season with decisions needed for quite a few well established players.

Big_Pete
12-10-2012, 08:07 PM
One thing that continually frustrates me is our inconsistency with running the ball and defensively stopping the run.

Coughlin has continually preached these as our team's priorities but as far as im am concerned are average at best. We have flashed at times, but really don't haven't established any dominance in the ground game.

bigbluedefense
12-10-2012, 09:00 PM
The truth is, the 2012 Giants aren't as talented as the 2011 Giants. That's the cold hard truth.

My expectations for this season was make the playoffs and win a playoff game. I think that's still achievable. Anything beyond that is gravy.

Malaka
12-10-2012, 09:51 PM
The truth is, the 2012 Giants aren't as talented as the 2011 Giants. That's the cold hard truth.

My expectations for this season was make the playoffs and win a playoff game. I think that's still achievable. Anything beyond that is gravy.

I agree with this. However, the NFC looks really weak. The Falcons are a flawed team, we have laid the smack down on the Packers twice now can we do it again? the Bears could be a good match-up but we match-up really well with that team their o-line sucks and Cutler is due for turnovers which our defense has knack at creating, the Seahawks will be without their two best players, and if we play the 49ers again we are bound to lose sometime but we haven proven we can beat them as well.

If we get into the playoffs I really like our chances. We can compete with anyone in the NFC. I cross my fingers for an almighty Manning Bowl though the chances are slim.

bigbluedefense
12-10-2012, 09:56 PM
The Giants can beat any team anywhere anytime. They can also lose to any team anywhere anytime.

I think realistically, I see an offense that hasn't replaced Mario Manningham, has a Hakeem Nicks that will not be healthy all season, and a RT that keeps getting beat like a drum in Diehl.

On defense, I see a pass rush who's best player is having a down year (JPP), a washed up Justin Tuck who isn't half the player he used to be, and an injured Canty who is still getting his legs back. And a secondary that's banged up with Kenny, and isn't as strong at CB as it was last year.

And as a unit relies way too heavily on turnovers and has become a very basic vanilla Cover 2 defense that makes me puke.

This team just isn't as good as last year.

Rosebud
12-11-2012, 02:27 AM
I actually think the tough schedule and having Dallas and Washington biting at our heels is a good thing. There is no margin for error and we have to perform, otherwise if we falter we are out. I don't think any of the remaining games will be easy.

We perform our best when our backs are against the wall, so if we do make it against tough teams then we will likely have some form going into the playoffs, where all bets are off.

I am confident we will get the job done, but if we don't we did certainly have our chances this season.

There is likely to be a bit of player turnover after the season with decisions needed for quite a few well established players.

Ed Zachary.

Rosebud
12-11-2012, 02:31 AM
The Giants can beat any team anywhere anytime. They can also lose to any team anywhere anytime.

I think realistically, I see an offense that hasn't replaced Mario Manningham, has a Hakeem Nicks that will not be healthy all season, and a RT that keeps getting beat like a drum in Diehl.

On defense, I see a pass rush who's best player is having a down year (JPP), a washed up Justin Tuck who isn't half the player he used to be, and an injured Canty who is still getting his legs back. And a secondary that's banged up with Kenny, and isn't as strong at CB as it was last year.

And as a unit relies way too heavily on turnovers and has become a very basic vanilla Cover 2 defense that makes me puke.

This team just isn't as good as last year.

I dunno, Web's taken a clear step back, but Prince has drastically improved the secondary, now having some safeties other than Rolle n Kenny to go with 3 safeties, I think our secondary is better than it was last year. The Pass rush's not as good and we do still miss Mario, but the OL is actually better than it was last year, as is our running game, JPP and co can still take over games despite the down year and with Eli, Cruz and Nicks if he ever gets fully healthy, the offense is just as dangerous as last year. Overall I don't think we're significantly worse when playing well, now I still don't expect us to repeat, but we're certainly well positioned to do so. Especially with the NFC being weaker this year.

bigbluedefense
12-11-2012, 07:51 AM
I dunno, Web's taken a clear step back, but Prince has drastically improved the secondary, now having some safeties other than Rolle n Kenny to go with 3 safeties, I think our secondary is better than it was last year. The Pass rush's not as good and we do still miss Mario, but the OL is actually better than it was last year, as is our running game, JPP and co can still take over games despite the down year and with Eli, Cruz and Nicks if he ever gets fully healthy, the offense is just as dangerous as last year. Overall I don't think we're significantly worse when playing well, now I still don't expect us to repeat, but we're certainly well positioned to do so. Especially with the NFC being weaker this year.

The back end of the secondary is worse because CWeb used to be a guy who can lock down 1 guy with no help. As well as Prince has played this year, and he's been great, he's not been on the opposition's #1 WR, and he doesn't play with no safety help often.

Also Kenny has been hurt, which hurts our ability to defend deep. And while Stevie Brown makes a lot of INTs which looks great on TV, he also messes up a lot of assignments which leads to big gains. He's a hit or miss guy, we just don't recognize that bc we only see the hits and not the misses on TV.

Our DTs are considerably worse this year than last year mainly bc Canty just isn't ready yet. We have no depth at DT and with Canty not playing well right now the middle of our defense is not stout.

Offensively, we absolutely are not as good as last year. Yes our run game has improved, but our pass game which is our bread and butter is not even close to last year. Cruz is being taken out of games bc Nicks is not 100% and can be left 1 on 1. And we don't have that 3rd WR threat who can take pressure off of that 1,2 punch.

We're still a good team. Just not as good as last year.

Giantsfan1080
12-11-2012, 07:56 AM
Our point differential is massively better this year than last. Some of that is because the NFC is a bit down but it's hard for me to say this REGULAR SEASON team is worse than last year's. We've looked much better this year as a group even if the specific talent isn't performing as well as last. We've blown more teams out this year and our big wins have been more impressive compared to last.

bigbluedefense
12-11-2012, 08:02 AM
We've had less coverage breakdowns this year vs last year, which is why our point differential is higher.

Yet last year, when we cleaned up our coverage communication, the overall performance of the defense was considerably higher than the current unit's production. Which is worrisome.

Giantsfan1080
12-11-2012, 08:18 AM
I don't agree with that. I'm pretty sure we've given up more big plays this year than last.

bigbluedefense
12-11-2012, 08:24 AM
We gave up a ton of big plays last year. This year we've bended more, which is misleading bc it's by design to give up yardage. Last year we were just getting torched.

Giantsfan1080
12-11-2012, 09:01 AM
I just went back over this year and we've given up 10 TD passes of 25+ yards.

Dallas(2) - 40,34
TB(2) - 41, 29
Cleveland(1) - 62
Washington (2) - 26, 30
Pittsburgh (1) - 51
Cincy (1) - 56
GB(1) - 61

bigbluedefense
12-11-2012, 09:10 AM
Dallas and Tampa were early in the season when our CB depth was decimated.

Pittsburgh was a slant that basically went to the house. I just feel like we had a lot more communication break downs last year.

Giantsfan1080
12-11-2012, 09:21 AM
Last year in 20 games including the playoffs we only gave up 8 TD's of 25+ yards and 3 of them were that stupid Vernon Davis wheel route we couldn't defend.

Seattle(1) - 27
Buffalo(1) - 60
SF(1) - 31
NO(1) - 29
Dallas(1) - 50
Dallas(1) - 34
SF(2) - 73, 28

Giantsfan1080
12-11-2012, 09:22 AM
Last year teams would just gash over the middle of the field constantly.

Big_Pete
12-11-2012, 01:34 PM
How to we compare this year with last year with big runs?

bigbluedefense
12-11-2012, 01:53 PM
I think our run game has been much better this year vs last year. Granted, it still isn't great, but last year it was abysmal.

And we're getting much more production out of the C position this year. Much more.

Giantsfan1080
12-11-2012, 01:55 PM
I think our run game has been much better this year vs last year. Granted, it still isn't great, but last year it was abysmal.

And we're getting much more production out of the C position this year. Much more.

I think he meant defensively.

bigbluedefense
12-11-2012, 02:03 PM
Oh. We haven't been a great run defense in a long time actually. We're built outside in. Strong on the edges, weak in the middle.

And we are a poor tackling defense which doesn't help. Plus our LB core is passive, let's the play come to them instead of going to the play.

Rosebud
12-11-2012, 02:11 PM
Our run D won't dominate unless the DL is raping, but we've been pretty good against some dangerous running teams. Our run D is one of my lesser worries. Way behind our passing game being able to take over when it has to against the top teams, our secondary getting healthy down the stretch and there being enough pressure on the team to get a run going here and not backing into the playoffs like we would've if Washington and Dallas completely imploded like the Iggles.

Luckily the NFL doesn't have any really dominant teams right now, the best in both conferences are deeply flawed, even more than we are. The Packers defense is awful and the OL is playing like **** to. The Bears OL makes even our OL from last year look competent, even Jay Cutler is getting killed behind that group, their defense relies on a few key stars, an injury to whom sinks the whole unit. The Falcons aren't a great team, their defense is solid, as is Ryan, but their Receivers are the only scare part of that team, and I think we could rattle Ryan more then enough for Eli to outpace what Ryan can do with Julio and Rhoddy. The 9ers don't have the QB and nobody else in the NFC is a real threat.

In the AFC the top teams are even more flawed as the Ravens don't just have to overcome Joe Flacco, but their Defensive injuries have really drained a unit that wasn't aging great already. The Steelers have a turribad OL, the D is no longer scary and they play down to the pressure just as bad as we do. The Texans still don't know if Schaub will be able to win them big playoff games in the dying moments and the D lost a lot when Cushing went down. The Pats D is awful and they haven't been as scary on O. Denver's probably the best in the AFC and their defense is much more of a weakness than ours', even with Miller and Doom playing well.

We're flawed, but so's the competition. If the pressure is on and we're getting healthier, as it appears to be the case, this team could totally go on a run to get in and then go deep.

Big_Pete
12-11-2012, 03:08 PM
Oh. We haven't been a great run defense in a long time actually. We're built outside in. Strong on the edges, weak in the middle.

And we are a poor tackling defense which doesn't help. Plus our LB core is passive, let's the play come to them instead of going to the play.


Yeah I meant our run defence

I really haven't been happy with it in a while, BBD makes a good point on how it is built.

Big_Pete
12-11-2012, 03:34 PM
I am disappointed that we haven't been able to get more pressure from our defensive line.

last year we had 48 sacks, 20 int, 15 FF

this year through 13 games we have 31 sacks, 20 int, 16 FF
and pace for 38 sacks, 25 int, 20 FF this season.


I guess most people would be happy to trade 10 sacks for 10 turnovers, put looking at the numbers are deceptive. I don't think too many fans would consider this year's defence to be better.

I expected to be able to continue to get a lot of pressure from our highly touted DEs.
Looking at it further, our DEs (counting Kiwi as a DE) have 19.5 sacks between them (on pace for 24) compare that to last year when Tuck, JPP, Osi and Tollefson combined for 35.5 sacks.

Our DTs, LBs and DBs conversely are on pace for 8.5/4.5/0 this year as opposed to 6/5.5/1 last season.

I know teams have schemed against us and Tuck is declining, but losing 1/3 of the sack production from our DEs is my big concern heading into the playoffs.

Giantsfan1080
12-12-2012, 09:02 AM
If Hixon stays healthy I think he can be that WR3 we really need at this time of the year. Him and Wilson just might be the two keys needed to the playoff run I think we can make.

Rosebud
12-12-2012, 09:07 AM
I think we'll committee it, Bennett is more of a threat at TE than anyone we've had since Shockey. Randle in a simplified role, like Mario's was, can make some plays, and Hixon can do his part to.

With the adding threat of the running game that we didn't have last year, our offense can beat anybody.

AcheTen (Thumper)
12-12-2012, 09:21 AM
Our run D won't dominate unless the DL is raping, but we've been pretty good against some dangerous running teams. Our run D is one of my lesser worries. Way behind our passing game being able to take over when it has to against the top teams, our secondary getting healthy down the stretch and there being enough pressure on the team to get a run going here and not backing into the playoffs like we would've if Washington and Dallas completely imploded like the Iggles.

Luckily the NFL doesn't have any really dominant teams right now, the best in both conferences are deeply flawed, even more than we are. The Packers defense is awful and the OL is playing like **** to. The Bears OL makes even our OL from last year look competent, even Jay Cutler is getting killed behind that group, their defense relies on a few key stars, an injury to whom sinks the whole unit. The Falcons aren't a great team, their defense is solid, as is Ryan, but their Receivers are the only scare part of that team, and I think we could rattle Ryan more then enough for Eli to outpace what Ryan can do with Julio and Rhoddy. The 9ers don't have the QB and nobody else in the NFC is a real threat.

In the AFC the top teams are even more flawed as the Ravens don't just have to overcome Joe Flacco, but their Defensive injuries have really drained a unit that wasn't aging great already. The Steelers have a turribad OL, the D is no longer scary and they play down to the pressure just as bad as we do. The Texans still don't know if Schaub will be able to win them big playoff games in the dying moments and the D lost a lot when Cushing went down. The Pats D is awful and they haven't been as scary on O. Denver's probably the best in the AFC and their defense is much more of a weakness than ours', even with Miller and Doom playing well.

We're flawed, but so's the competition. If the pressure is on and we're getting healthier, as it appears to be the case, this team could totally go on a run to get in and then go deep.

I agree with most of this but I have to add that Seattle looks like a very dangerous team.

With the Bears' continued regression, the Seahawks have the #1 defense in the NFC, imho.

If they can manage to win the NFC West (by winning out and watching SF lose to NE this week), and get the #2 seed somehow (if the Packers falter), then I could see them ending up hosting the NFC CG in their brutal homefield advantage stadium. With that defense, and their efficient offense, and that homefield advantage, I'd actually consider them the favorite to reach the Super Bowl in the NFC.

Giantsfan1080
12-12-2012, 09:43 AM
I think we'll committee it, Bennett is more of a threat at TE than anyone we've had since Shockey. Randle in a simplified role, like Mario's was, can make some plays, and Hixon can do his part to.

With the adding threat of the running game that we didn't have last year, our offense can beat anybody.

I think Eli trusts Hixon the most at this point so that's why I think he's important. I love what BU has done for us up to this point but there is still some miscommunication between him and Eli. Randle is meh for the rest of this year.

Giantsfan1080
12-12-2012, 10:42 AM
Doesn't sound good for Prince playing this weekend. Could end up being a huge blow going against White and Jones.

Malaka
12-12-2012, 11:42 AM
Doesn't sound good for Prince playing this weekend. Could end up being a huge blow going against White and Jones.

Oh man that is awful. Awful, awful timing for this. Damn it.

Regarding the Seahawks, I do agree they have the best defense in the NFL but with the pending PED suspension their D would lose two vital starters, and with a solid, but not spectacular Wilson at the helm of the offense I see them as nothing more than a solid. I can't see them going far this year. If Wilson improves and the D maintains its swagger they are team to watch out for next year.

Giantsfan1080
12-12-2012, 12:39 PM
Browner already began serving his suspension.
Sherman is appealing and receiving outside counsel so he hasn't started yet.

bigbluedefense
12-12-2012, 12:45 PM
Let's worry about our own team before we worry about who we play in the playoffs.

Right now, I still feel like the Redskins still have the upper hand on us bc their schedule is cake, and assuming we both finish 10-6 they win in tie breakers.

Giantsfan1080
12-12-2012, 12:50 PM
Well Seattle is also in the race for a possible wild card so I don't see the problem in discussing them. It's a shame the replacements gave them that W otherwise 10 wins would pretty much assure of a playoff spot no matter what.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-12-2012, 05:27 PM
BBD,

I hate Mike Smith so much. I hope we smash the Falcons again! Nothing made my household happier than us beating them down in the playoffs. I hope we give them a beating!

Giantsfan1080
12-12-2012, 08:53 PM
Why do you hate Mike Smith?

Big_Pete
12-12-2012, 09:53 PM
Let's worry about our own team before we worry about who we play in the playoffs.

Right now, I still feel like the Redskins still have the upper hand on us bc their schedule is cake, and assuming we both finish 10-6 they win in tie breakers.

Well said, we need to take care of business ourselves first and while all our games are winnable, we are going to need to play well (yes I'm including the Eagles). Both Dallas and Washington have easier runs home and have tiebreakers over us.

I can see the Redskins beating both Cleveland and the Eagles plus the Cowboys beating Pittsburgh and Saints.

I really hope we don't under estimate the Eagles. I have a bad feeling they show up big time to send off Andy Reid and play their best game of the season to beat us (playing down to our competition) and sending the winner of Dallas/Washington into the playoffs as the division winner. Even at 10-6 we may not make a wildcard spot with Chicago and Seattle in the mix.

First up we have to take care of business this weekend, otherwise it could quickly become academic. Thats not going to be easy against the Falcons. It is almost sudden death now for us.

Rosebud
12-12-2012, 09:55 PM
That Eagles game worries me the most, but we'll either already be qualified or really need the win, so I think we'll pull it off, but I'm pretty confident about the next two weeks.

Big_Pete
12-12-2012, 10:03 PM
That Eagles game worries me the most, but we'll either already be qualified or really need the win, so I think we'll pull it off, but I'm pretty confident about the next two weeks.

I think we have three danger games to be honest.

While I do think we are a decent chance in all three game, the first two are against two good physical teams who would like nothing better to than to knock the defending champs off and prove they are legit contenders.

We really need to show up and play well.

bigbluedefense
12-13-2012, 08:27 AM
Why do you hate Mike Smith?

Mike Smith used him. He did an internship with the Falcons where Smith asked him to track the trends of all flags thrown by every ref group so they can see how each group calls the games they ref.

Then basically gave NYG no credit for his work and booted him out the door without even a thank you.

So I share NYG's hatred of the Falcons bc of Mike Smith.

Giantsfan1080
12-13-2012, 08:37 AM
That's disgusting. I hope we repeat our playoff performance every time we play them.

If Bradshaw doesn't play do you think Wilson gets any more than 15 carries?

Giantsfan1080
12-13-2012, 01:20 PM
Sounds like no Prince, Phillips, or Bradshaw this week.

bigbluedefense
12-13-2012, 01:43 PM
All big blows to our team.

OSUGiants17
12-13-2012, 01:50 PM
Sounds like no Prince, Phillips, or Bradshaw this week.

Prince is the only name there that has me upset. I love Phillips and he is always a big help, but we have won big games without him before and Bradshaw could use a week off, I trust Wilson, Lumpkin and Torain to collectively equal Bradsha's production

bigbluedefense
12-13-2012, 02:05 PM
We really needed Prince for this week. That's a huge blow.

Giantsfan1080
12-13-2012, 02:13 PM
We really needed Prince for this week. That's a huge blow.

Big big blow. Webster or Rolle on the 2 big WR's now I guess.

bigbluedefense
12-13-2012, 02:21 PM
Big big blow. Webster or Rolle on the 2 big WR's now I guess.

Can't. Hosely has to go on 1 of them. Rolle plays the slot. I expect a **** ton of Cover 2 with little to no blitzing this week. Fewell doesn't blitz unless he trusts his back end. Even then blitzing is minimal.

With no Phillips or Prince he's gonna go into full ****** mode.

Giantsfan1080
12-13-2012, 02:30 PM
Hosley only plays the slot also.

J-Mike88
12-13-2012, 05:14 PM
Which team would concern you the most in the playoffs?

The 49ers, who you crushed in San Fran earlier this year?
The Packers, who you crushed in NY a few weeks ago, and KO'd last playoffs?
Atlanta, who you shutout last year in the playoffs?
Seattle?
Chicago?

Last year at this time, I was one of the few who was worried about the Giants. Even you guys had less confidence in the Giants than I did this time last year.
I don't see any team here who you won't beat if you play well, just look at what you've done to those best teams.

But if someone was gonna beat you, who would you bet is the team?
Curious at the pulse of G-Nation at this particular point in time.

Bulldogs
12-13-2012, 06:05 PM
Should be a good game this weekend. The Falcons seem to play either up or down to our competition, which is a trait I feel both our teams share. I can guarantee it won't be a 24-2 smackdown like last year but wouldn't be surprised to see this game go either way. You guys will be fighting to maintain control of the NFC East, we'll be playing to prove to ourselves and others we can hang with the top dogs in the NFL. As BBD and Bart Scott would say... "CAN'T WAIT!"

Giantsfan1080
12-13-2012, 06:50 PM
Which team would concern you the most in the playoffs?

The 49ers, who you crushed in San Fran earlier this year?
The Packers, who you crushed in NY a few weeks ago, and KO'd last playoffs?
Atlanta, who you shutout last year in the playoffs?
Seattle?
Chicago?

Last year at this time, I was one of the few who was worried about the Giants. Even you guys had less confidence in the Giants than I did this time last year.
I don't see any team here who you won't beat if you play well, just look at what you've done to those best teams.

But if someone was gonna beat you, who would you bet is the team?
Curious at the pulse of G-Nation at this particular point in time.

Nevermind read that wrong.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-13-2012, 06:57 PM
Why do you hate Mike Smith?

I know Tony Siragusa, and I wanted to get into D1 coaching or work in scouting for an NFL team. I got interviews with Coach Garret Sr. I also went out to lunch and went to Siragusas house where he called Mike Smith. They go way back from the Ravens days. So he called saying he had a guy who wanted to get his foot in the door.

So Coach Smith called and this was not really an internship it was a like a project he wanted me to do. The goal was do this and come in May for mini camp, and then they would call me during training camp, and work there, which would lead to something else.

I had gotten close but never got 2 feet in. I had Gene Smith the GM of the Jags before he was GM call me, and I sent my resume to NFL because of the contacts you have. Don't waste your time, or you will be stuck in the college ranks.

Well like BBD said, the project Coach Smith called me for was a scouting break down of every single Ref crew team and each person within that team! He said it should take a week, but I knew it wouldn't so I worked months in advance. I went to Atlanta and they geared me up and such. We worked watching film, and I worked with the Video guys.

I did a lot, but then it was a longer project. I did like most of the project, but since I don't have game film, I can't see who threw the flag. However, the template and total stats I did. They just needed to add the individual position ref and who threw what flag. Then I'd be done!

Well, I talked to Smith and he said I'd call you in 2 weeks. I was excited and kept my phone on me everywhere. Weeks turned into months, and training camp ended. Friends and family asked me did I get a call, Yes or no? The worse thing ever is saying, I am not sure, they didn't call back.

Well week 1 ended, and Coach Smith calls! He said he thought I was watching, which is BS, he knew I was waiting for the call! I said no I am not, and he said ok, well he will call me to work again for that year's project. It helped them win against the Dolphins. So it was a success! I was happy that my hard work paid of! He said he'd call in a couple days. In the mean time, talk to the video head guy. I said ok! I was happy again!

So I emailed the video guy, telling him what coach Smith said. He said that they are doing it, and basically nicely said, they are doing it. So, in other words, they had my stuff, and why need me? They have the film, AND my stuff. So... I said, ok.. Do you have the filled out information for my other project so I can use it if I interview with other teams. Want to know what he said? They lost it.. They can't find it?! How do you lose something you worked months AND months doing? So now, I can't complete my work either.

Again, weeks, and months went by. Coach Smith never called! I tried calling him for like months, and Brenda, I think, his assistant said she leave a message for him. Eventually, I gave up. I got the hint, why would they need me? They have everything now. So basically, I got I got hung out to dry, with not even a call back to reject me. Just like that ignored and that's it.

My dad thought I was going to get my foot in, and it looked he took it harder than I did. That was the season where we had Sheridan, 2010 season, when the Saints won. We won then! We won in the playoffs, and I hope we win on sunday and if we see them in the playoffs. I hope Karma gets to him, and when that happens, then that balance will be paid off.

That's when I realized talking to other older coaches, that their are coaches who are so under pressure to make it, that they use everyone around them, in hopes of making it in the NFL, and staying successful.

So, I gave up the NFL, did my post back, and now applying for medical school. BBD knows about it all.

J-Mike88
12-13-2012, 07:21 PM
I know Tony Siragusa, and I wanted to get into D1 coaching or work in scouting for an NFL team. I got interviews with Coach Garret Sr. I also went out to lunch and went to Siragusas house where he called Mike Smith. They go way back from the Ravens days. So he called saying he had a guy who wanted to get his foot in the door.

So Coach Smith called and this was not really an internship it was a like a project he wanted me to do. The goal was do this and come in May for mini camp, and then they would call me during training camp, and work there, which would lead to something else.

I had gotten close but never got 2 feet in. I had Gene Smith the GM of the Jags before he was GM call me, and I sent my resume to NFL because of the contacts you have. Don't waste your time, or you will be stuck in the college ranks.

Well like BBD said, the project Coach Smith called me for was a scouting break down of every single Ref crew team and each person within that team! He said it should take a week, but I knew it wouldn't so I worked months in advance. I went to Atlanta and they geared me up and such. We worked watching film, and I worked with the Video guys.

I did a lot, but then it was a longer project. I did like most of the project, but since I don't have game film, I can't see who threw the flag. However, the template and total stats I did. They just needed to add the individual position ref and who threw what flag. Then I'd be done!

Well, I talked to Smith and he said I'd call you in 2 weeks. I was excited and kept my phone on me everywhere. Weeks turned into months, and training camp ended. Friends and family asked me did I get a call, Yes or no? The worse thing ever is saying, I am not sure, they didn't call back.

Well week 1 ended, and Coach Smith calls! He said he thought I was watching, which is BS, he knew I was waiting for the call! I said no I am not, and he said ok, well he will call me to work again for that year's project. It helped them win against the Dolphins. So it was a success! I was happy that my hard work paid of! He said he'd call in a couple days. In the mean time, talk to the video head guy. I said ok! I was happy again!

So I emailed the video guy, telling him what coach Smith said. He said that they are doing it, and basically nicely said, they are doing it. So, in other words, they had my stuff, and why need me? They have the film, AND my stuff. So... I said, ok.. Do you have the filled out information for my other project so I can use it if I interview with other teams. Want to know what he said? They lost it.. They can't find it?! How do you lose something you worked months AND months doing? So now, I can't complete my work either.

Again, weeks, and months went by. Coach Smith never called! I tried calling him for like months, and Brenda, I think, his assistant said she leave a message for him. Eventually, I gave up. I got the hint, why would they need me? They have everything now. So basically, I got I got hung out to dry, with not even a call back to reject me. Just like that ignored and that's it.

My dad thought I was going to get my foot in, and it looked he took it harder than I did. That was the season where we had Sheridan, 2010 season, when the Saints won. We won then! We won in the playoffs, and I hope we win on sunday and if we see them in the playoffs. I hope Karma gets to him, and when that happens, then that balance will be paid off.

That's when I realized talking to other older coaches, that their are coaches who are so under pressure to make it, that they use everyone around them, in hopes of making it in the NFL, and staying successful.

So, I gave up the NFL, did my post back, and now applying for medical school. BBD knows about it all.
What a phuqer.
Now you're in med school though, much safer path.

Nobody answered my question above.
And yes 1080, killed SF in SF.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-13-2012, 07:21 PM
....

My dad thought I was going to get my foot in, and it looked he took it harder than I did. That was the season where we had Sheridan, 2010 season, when the Saints won. We won then! We won in the playoffs, and I hope we win on sunday and if we see them in the playoffs. I hope Karma gets to him, and when that happens, then that balance will be paid off.

That's when I realized talking to other older coaches, that their are coaches who are so under pressure to make it, that they use everyone around them, in hopes of making it in the NFL, and staying successful.

So, I gave up the NFL, did my post back, and now applying for medical school. BBD knows about it all.

Man, I am so sorry for you. ******* douchebag Falcons. I now hate that team as well. Well, at least Mike Smith. That's a dick move being a NFL coach and taking advantage of a young guy trying to make it.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-13-2012, 07:33 PM
Thanks. Hopefully come spring time I know where I am going to be in medical school come Fall of 2013 assuming I get in. However, I thought I was so close. The worst part is not calling back to say Yes or No. Being kept in limbo is the worst thing to do.

I never like that guy.

To answer J's question,

I will say 9ers. Even though we beat them, I still think they post us the biggest threat. If we are on our game and get our head of our butts, we are the best the best team in the NFC. Get in is the motto and let's hope we can do our thing.

Giantsfan1080
12-13-2012, 07:59 PM
I know Tony Siragusa, and I wanted to get into D1 coaching or work in scouting for an NFL team. I got interviews with Coach Garret Sr. I also went out to lunch and went to Siragusas house where he called Mike Smith. They go way back from the Ravens days. So he called saying he had a guy who wanted to get his foot in the door.

So Coach Smith called and this was not really an internship it was a like a project he wanted me to do. The goal was do this and come in May for mini camp, and then they would call me during training camp, and work there, which would lead to something else.

I had gotten close but never got 2 feet in. I had Gene Smith the GM of the Jags before he was GM call me, and I sent my resume to NFL because of the contacts you have. Don't waste your time, or you will be stuck in the college ranks.

Well like BBD said, the project Coach Smith called me for was a scouting break down of every single Ref crew team and each person within that team! He said it should take a week, but I knew it wouldn't so I worked months in advance. I went to Atlanta and they geared me up and such. We worked watching film, and I worked with the Video guys.

I did a lot, but then it was a longer project. I did like most of the project, but since I don't have game film, I can't see who threw the flag. However, the template and total stats I did. They just needed to add the individual position ref and who threw what flag. Then I'd be done!

Well, I talked to Smith and he said I'd call you in 2 weeks. I was excited and kept my phone on me everywhere. Weeks turned into months, and training camp ended. Friends and family asked me did I get a call, Yes or no? The worse thing ever is saying, I am not sure, they didn't call back.

Well week 1 ended, and Coach Smith calls! He said he thought I was watching, which is BS, he knew I was waiting for the call! I said no I am not, and he said ok, well he will call me to work again for that year's project. It helped them win against the Dolphins. So it was a success! I was happy that my hard work paid of! He said he'd call in a couple days. In the mean time, talk to the video head guy. I said ok! I was happy again!

So I emailed the video guy, telling him what coach Smith said. He said that they are doing it, and basically nicely said, they are doing it. So, in other words, they had my stuff, and why need me? They have the film, AND my stuff. So... I said, ok.. Do you have the filled out information for my other project so I can use it if I interview with other teams. Want to know what he said? They lost it.. They can't find it?! How do you lose something you worked months AND months doing? So now, I can't complete my work either.

Again, weeks, and months went by. Coach Smith never called! I tried calling him for like months, and Brenda, I think, his assistant said she leave a message for him. Eventually, I gave up. I got the hint, why would they need me? They have everything now. So basically, I got I got hung out to dry, with not even a call back to reject me. Just like that ignored and that's it.

My dad thought I was going to get my foot in, and it looked he took it harder than I did. That was the season where we had Sheridan, 2010 season, when the Saints won. We won then! We won in the playoffs, and I hope we win on sunday and if we see them in the playoffs. I hope Karma gets to him, and when that happens, then that balance will be paid off.

That's when I realized talking to other older coaches, that their are coaches who are so under pressure to make it, that they use everyone around them, in hopes of making it in the NFL, and staying successful.

So, I gave up the NFL, did my post back, and now applying for medical school. BBD knows about it all.

Man that's some crappy stuff. Unfortunately the world is filled with scum like that and it's probably even more so in the NFL. Sorry you had to be in the middle like that not knowing your fate. Hope there is Giants retribution the rest of your life against that a-hole.

Forenci
12-13-2012, 08:53 PM
Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that as well, NYG. Sounds like you did a lot of good work and should have been rewarded for it. Smith sounds like an asshole.

I don't see the harm of him taking a few minutes to AT LEAST give you a good recommendation to others out there, even if they weren't going to give you a position within their organization.

J-Mike88
12-14-2012, 07:35 AM
T
To answer J's question,

I will say 9ers. Even though we beat them, I still think they post us the biggest threat. If we are on our game and get our head of our butts, we are the best the best team in the NFC. Get in is the motto and let's hope we can do our thing.
I think I would say the same thing if in your shoes.
We're "soft" in the trenches, and our DB's tackle like girls.

Lookin forward to your game at Atlanta this week.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2012, 09:03 AM
Yeah it's safe to say I hate Mike Smith and hope that turd has what's coming to him. I can root for Atlanta to do well when he's fired but I'll never root for a team that employs him. Lets just hope he never becomes a Giant lol

Giantsfan1080
12-14-2012, 09:13 AM
Doubtful.

In other news our assistant OL coach Matt Rhule is a finalist for the Temple head coaching job.

Forenci
12-14-2012, 09:24 AM
Not surprising considering how well our offensive line is doing this year (all things considered).

We all thought the offensive line was going to be awful but it's actually turned out to be pretty good overall. Beatty's development has really saved us, not to mention it has saved us a draft pick.

Giantsfan1080
12-14-2012, 09:34 AM
Beatty has been very good. The right side of the line has still be terrible in some games though. Snee and Diehl were schooled multiple times in that Bengals game. I hope Brewer can play next year.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2012, 09:34 AM
The RT position has been a problem when Diehl is in. I'd like to see us upgrade LG too bc Boothe while serviceable doesn't pull well. And RG is getting old.

But overall pretty good. It's WR that's been a problem this year.

Damix
12-14-2012, 09:42 AM
I wonder what we'll need to shell out to keep Beatty.

Giantsfan1080
12-14-2012, 09:48 AM
He's only had 1 good healthy year. I can't imagine it would take all that much.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2012, 10:01 AM
Jake Long being on the market lowers his value as well. Takes one potential suitor away from Beatty.

Damix
12-14-2012, 10:14 AM
People will overpay for offensive linemen, Beatty might be a candidate for the franchise tag.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2012, 10:35 AM
Gotta franchise Nicks. This is going to be a serious problem in the offseason, we have way too many contracts. This year might be our last chance at a SB run bc we might rebuild for 2 years before we have a other roster capable of making a run.

Damix
12-14-2012, 10:38 AM
Gotta franchise Nicks. This is going to be a serious problem in the offseason, we have way too many contracts. This year might be our last chance at a SB run bc we might rebuild for 2 years before we have a other roster capable of making a run.

Nicks isn't a FA till 2014.

Giantsfan1080
12-14-2012, 10:45 AM
Cruz is a RFA or UFA this year? I suspect we'll work something out with Cruz before it comes to be a problem though.

Giantsfan1080
12-14-2012, 10:52 AM
Cruz is an RFA. Boothe is also a FA after the year.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-14-2012, 11:42 AM
Yeah it's safe to say I hate Mike Smith and hope that turd has what's coming to him. I can root for Atlanta to do well when he's fired but I'll never root for a team that employs him. Lets just hope he never becomes a Giant lol

You know I thought that about, Hahah. If by some bad luck he was our HC, when TC retired! I would HATE that! Rooting for another team, is obviously not an opinion.

I'd rip every move he makes if I disagree and do it to the extreme! We are big blue! Why is the gatorade, freaking green?! Booo! That would be very bad luck though if he ever coached our team.

I watched and re-played his post game presser the day we beat them in the playoffs. It was so much fun! : )

NY+Giants=NYG
12-14-2012, 11:47 AM
I think I would say the same thing if in your shoes.
We're "soft" in the trenches, and our DB's tackle like girls.

Lookin forward to your game at Atlanta this week.

I think injuries have hurt you guys and some teams match up well with others. I think we match up well against you guys. Our division foes match up well against us. Even in their off years they still can give us fits. That's an issue as well. But you guys beat us down the game after we choked against the Eagles. I think we just came out emotionally drained from screwing ourselves.

The game after we went into OT and you guys beat us. We killed you in the playoffs and now in the regular season. I think we match up well if everyone is healthy. If you guys are hurt then it's basically 1 amazing QB, and a few starters and rest of them are no named people.

You guys were announcing your line up on game day, and I barely recognized any of your players. You can't get far like that.

SF is worrisome, but I think we can beat them, but our weak point is our red zone scoring and defense. That worries me a lot. We had a great red zone performance which I loved. Can we keep that up though? If so, and if the defense can play better I think we will be more than fine, but I need to see a lot more.

Giantsfan1080
12-14-2012, 12:29 PM
Bradshaw, Amukamara, Phillips and Sash are all out Sunday.

Rosebud
12-14-2012, 01:29 PM
DL is gunna have to step up this game, if JPP can rape his way to Ryan enough to throw him off we should be able to contain those WRs enough for Eli to outgun him going the other way.

Giantsfan1080
12-14-2012, 01:41 PM
Hopefully this injury to Roddy keeps him out also. Would only be fair. Fewell will play this conservative so we'll just have to win our one on ones.

Big_Pete
12-14-2012, 04:09 PM
Giants ast OL coach Matt Rhule has been offered the head coaching job at Temple.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/temple-hires-giants-assistant-as-new-head-coach/

Interestingly he beat out Todd Bowles for the job

Big_Pete
12-14-2012, 04:15 PM
Jake Long being on the market lowers his value as well. Takes one potential suitor away from Beatty.

Very true, plus there is Brandon Albert and Ryan Clady

Also add in a decent draft class as well.

Forenci
12-15-2012, 11:45 AM
I actually wouldn't mind if Fewell plays this one conservative. Don't let their big play receivers beat you, keep everything underneath and just chip away at them.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2012, 12:05 PM
I don't think we have a choice this week. I don't trust anyone on our back end to hold up 1 on 1 vs their WRs.

We have to play a conservative, nickel defense that is always 2 deep, and gives up some in the run game and underneath routes to prevent these guys from going vertical on us.

BaLLiN
12-15-2012, 11:38 PM
well RGIII is officially out, Roddy White is a gametime decision

bigbluedefense
12-16-2012, 10:27 AM
This is a big week. Best case scenario is we win, SF loses, GB loses, Redskins lose and Dallas loses.

Worst case scenario is obviously the opposite. A lot can change this week. Should be exciting.

Giantsfan1080
12-16-2012, 10:30 AM
Roddy is playing. Hopefully the injury slows him down a bit.

Rosebud
12-16-2012, 10:52 AM
I still think we're better off with one of Dallas or Washington keeping the pressure on our team. At least for one more week.

bigbluedefense
12-16-2012, 10:56 AM
Well, I will guarantee this:

If we win today, I guarantee we lose in Baltimore. Because we'll take the week off knowing that we just have to beat Philly to get in. It's typical Giants. I'd put the farm on that happening if we win today.

Rosebud
12-16-2012, 11:21 AM
Well, I will guarantee this:

If we win today, I guarantee we lose in Baltimore. Because we'll take the week off knowing that we just have to beat Philly to get in. It's typical Giants. I'd put the farm on that happening if we win today.

If Dallas and Washington both win, we'll still need the Baltimore game and show up. It's the Philly game we're going to drop.

bigbluedefense
12-16-2012, 11:24 AM
Man, reading up on some of these children, I couldn't help but get choked up man.

One kid is getting buried in his Cruz jersey and Cruz is dedicating the game to him.

Just so sad. Forget football for a second, it's just so sad.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2012, 12:17 PM
Red zone chance 1


0/1

FG time.