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NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2012, 01:20 PM
Red zone chance 2

0/2

BigBlueNorwegian
12-16-2012, 01:58 PM
We ******* suck today! What the hell, coming in and showing up flat like this in a big matchup. Piss poor defense, and horrible offense. Failing three times on fourth and 1 or 2. Lame ass game.

scottyboy
12-16-2012, 02:05 PM
tuck needs to go. Kiwi to full time DE. Draft all OL/DT. boom. do it.

Forenci
12-16-2012, 02:27 PM
Yeah that was god awful. I know we have no DBs but Im not encouraged by this at all. Washington will be tied with us in the division. That's awful. The Ravens and Eagles are terrible but I could easily see us losing those games.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-16-2012, 02:28 PM
And Hosley is no better than a cone defending out there. He's not ready to be a major contributor for us. We better get Amukamara and Phillips back fast. Or we're done.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-16-2012, 02:45 PM
Okay, that's it. If you can later on, watch the running play that starts with 4:00 left in the fourth quarter. Watch Justin Tuck. He's not only completely done, he gives no effort any more. Bench him, strip him of his captains badge, and cut him in the offseason. He's been atrocious all season long, and he mopes around like a ****.

Big_Pete
12-16-2012, 02:59 PM
I am hopeful we can turn it around, though I am not confident we can.


This team has lacked the edge for much of the season. I don't know why that is as this team is built on the core from last year. Injuries are not an excuse, every team has the same issues to deal with.

I do think we will see a bit of an overhaul of the roster this offseason.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2012, 03:04 PM
Both sides of the ball were terrible! God I hate our defense SO MUCH! Perry Fewell is SO bad! That run and super bowl win saved his damn job. So far his scheme is god awful.

Rosebud
12-16-2012, 03:15 PM
Can't blame Fewell for the DL getting pushed around, missing its best players and no one on the team knowing how to tackle.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2012, 03:23 PM
His scheme is terrible. BBD and I never have been fans of this system. We got on a roll and won a super bow, but even then, has anyone loved our system? I never was a fan of his hire from a defensive philosophy standpoint.

bigbluedefense
12-16-2012, 03:24 PM
That was just a good old fashioned ass whooping. We can sit here and discuss what went wrong, but the truth is, everything went wrong. That was just an awful game.

And I can't agree more on Tuck. Not only is the lack of quality there, but what's most troublesome is the effort. The guy just doesn't give a **** anymore.

He's done, and I want him off the team. Bench him, and cut him after the season is over.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2012, 03:39 PM
That was just a good old fashioned ass whooping. We can sit here and discuss what went wrong, but the truth is, everything went wrong. That was just an awful game.

And I can't agree more on Tuck. Not only is the lack of quality there, but what's most troublesome is the effort. The guy just doesn't give a **** anymore.

He's done, and I want him off the team. Bench him, and cut him after the season is over.

He won't go anywhere. He will back and starting.

bigbluedefense
12-16-2012, 03:44 PM
He won't go anywhere. He will back and starting.

He will. But he shouldn't.

And another problem is constantly moving JPP around. Go back and track JPP's snaps all season long. You'll see he's hands down the most productive as a RE. But to accomodate Osi and Tuck we move JPP around. He needs to stay at RE all game long and the other pieces need to move around. Not him.

But this game was more than just that. This was a complete team effort, or lack of.

Eli was off, WRs weren't finishing routes, defense didn't show up, turnovers, no conversions, it was a total team let down.

Tuck's attitude, lack of effort, poor performance, and body language just happen to exemplify what went wrong today. He's the symbol of our problems.

And I've had enough of him. I want him gone. I know it won't happen, but he needs to go.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-16-2012, 03:45 PM
That was just a good old fashioned ass whooping. We can sit here and discuss what went wrong, but the truth is, everything went wrong. That was just an awful game.

And I can't agree more on Tuck. Not only is the lack of quality there, but what's most troublesome is the effort. The guy just doesn't give a **** anymore.

He's done, and I want him off the team. Bench him, and cut him after the season is over.


I'm telling you, go back and watch the aforementioned play. It's ******* atrocious. He first gets washed five yards backwards by a blocker, gets let go, finds out that Snelling is right next to him, tries to lead with his shoulder and tackle like a ******* DB, and then makes the sorriest attempt at wrapping up ever, before getting dragged by Snelling for five yards and a big gain. It was the worst single play I've ever seen by a Giants defensive lineman.

bigbluedefense
12-16-2012, 03:53 PM
I'm telling you, go back and watch the aforementioned play. It's ******* atrocious. He first gets washed five yards backwards by a blocker, gets let go, finds out that Snelling is right next to him, tries to lead with his shoulder and tackle like a ******* DB, and then makes the sorriest attempt at wrapping up ever, before getting dragged by Snelling for five yards and a big gain. It was the worst single play I've ever seen by a Giants defensive lineman.

He doesn't care. Tuck only plays half his snaps with effort anymore, and he plays maybe 3 games a season like he gives a ****. He'll play with effort in the playoffs, and he'll play with effort in must win games or big regular season games, but that's it. He doesn't care otherwise.

He embodies everything wrong with our team when it comes to effort. Want to know why we don't give effort every week? Look no further than our pathetic defensive captain. He's the ring leader of not giving a **** unless he absolutely has to.

I'm done with him. I love him for all his contributions to this team over the years, but he's washed up, and unfortunately doesn't care either. He's done. Let's just move on, throw him a nice press conference, and just move on. He's done.

And I don't want him back. Tired of his routine. It's been 4 years of the same **** now. I've seen enough of it.

Big_Pete
12-16-2012, 04:35 PM
Just a question to pose.

Do you think our problems this year are primarily coaching based, system based or talent based?

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2012, 04:43 PM
All 3. We have seen all of those things this year. I do think we have talent, but our defensive system relies on the pass rush too much. We are not an aggressive system which will send exotic blitz packages and try to win that way. We rush 4 drop the rest and expect our front 4 to cause pressure allowing the dropped coverage guys to make a play.

I feel like that was Tim lewis's system except Lewis ran the hybrid as well from what I remember.

All 3 have been an issue.

Rosebud
12-16-2012, 04:51 PM
Yeah it's a group effort. Injuries to the secondary make Fewell less aggressive leaving more pressure on our DL to step up which it hasn't been able to often this year because Tuck doesn't care most of the time. Add to this that no one can tackle and our defensive issues have been a true group effort.

Giantsfan1080
12-16-2012, 06:09 PM
Well that was no fun. We are the weirdest team ever.

Giantsfan1080
12-16-2012, 06:47 PM
Now I'm nervous.

Big_Pete
12-16-2012, 07:04 PM
All 3. We have seen all of those things this year. I do think we have talent, but our defensive system relies on the pass rush too much. We are not an aggressive system which will send exotic blitz packages and try to win that way. We rush 4 drop the rest and expect our front 4 to cause pressure allowing the dropped coverage guys to make a play.

I feel like that was Tim lewis's system except Lewis ran the hybrid as well from what I remember.

All 3 have been an issue.

Good points, and this has been my general feeling as well.

Going into this season, I was very confident with our talent but clearly they just aren't good enough. I don't buy the injury excuse, all NFL teams have the same factors to deal with.

I expected more from the talent we do have. Take the Dline for example, considering the talent, they should have performed better. That comes back to coaching to a large degree.

I don't think our scheme has been aggessive enough, I would like to see a little more pressure.

BaLLiN
12-16-2012, 07:21 PM
well now we have to win both games, and hope that chicago, dallas, and the redskins lose

BigBlueNorwegian
12-16-2012, 07:27 PM
well now we have to win both games, and hope that chicago, dallas, and the redskins lose

We are guaranteed a playoff spot with two wins. Hopefully they get their heads out of their asses and play with emotion this upcoming game. The Ravens doesn't look all that scary. But if we play like today, the ******* Chiefs would have beat us, so the Ravens will rape us as well if we don't get our **** together.

Giantsfan1080
12-16-2012, 07:41 PM
If we go 1-1 what's it look like?

Damix
12-17-2012, 08:58 AM
If we go 1-1 what's it look like?

Not pretty. Best shot is win both, Saints beat Dallas, Dallas beats the Redskins.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-17-2012, 10:14 AM
Good points, and this has been my general feeling as well.

Going into this season, I was very confident with our talent but clearly they just aren't good enough. I don't buy the injury excuse, all NFL teams have the same factors to deal with.

I expected more from the talent we do have. Take the Dline for example, considering the talent, they should have performed better. That comes back to coaching to a large degree.

I don't think our scheme has been aggessive enough, I would like to see a little more pressure.



I think our DL is old and have been ineffective as a group all year long. Osi is the most productive, and he is out the door. Tuck is useless and done. He hasn't stayed healthy since he became a starter for us. JPP looks thicker or fatter than last year. But some how he is struggling.

Now that could be good if you are an aggressive DC who brings more blitzes to help the struggling DL. However, just like Tim Lewis, Fewell isn't an aggressive DC schematically. So now that's a problem. Even with our DL was on last year the scheme was breaking down on the back end of things.

Winning the SB saved his job and got the attention off his god awful scheme. It started with the year of the Philly choke job to last year in the regular season. We won the SB, and again this year our defense is soft.. Just scheme wise it's not a good fit for us.

That's the defense. Offensively, I have stated how I feel. It's an issue when you see opposing CBs route reading VERY well before our WRs even make the break on their routes. You run a simple square in, and you see the CB run full speed to the landmark just as our WR is getting there or even a step earlier. That's an issue for a system that preaches we will beat any coverage due to our WR rules. Well what then? Seems like now they know what we are running based on tape, and can play coverages that manipulate where our WRs are going go and get there before they do.

It also hurts us that our OL stinks, and our WRs are hurt. How long have we been running this system? Is it unrealistic to think that eventually this system will be caught up with? 8 years in this system may be a lot. Just going to cite Eli's WFAN interview saying the system was Gilbride's system, when Hufangel was the OC. Right or wrong, it could be TC's but the point is this system has been here since 2004. So could it be realistic to think after 8 years that the system needs an overall to stay one step ahead?

Let's see how we do against the Ravens.

bigbluedefense
12-17-2012, 12:45 PM
DL issues are as follows:

1. Tuck is done. He's just done. And the worst part is he doesn't care, and his body language and attitude infests the rest of the team. It's time to move on.

2. Osi is our 2nd best DE right now but because we need his pass rush 2 things are happening:

A) JPP moves to LE. JPP isn't effective as a LE. He has always said he prefers RE and that's his most natural spot and as a LE he isn't as effective. But Osi can only play RE. So to have them both on the field we move JPP to LE where he's less effective.

B) Obviously with Osi, you're gonna lose some run stuffing ability.

3. Going back to JPP, we move him around too much. Stop getting cute, and just line the man up at RE and let him ball. He's not effective at DT rushing inside, he's not as effective at LE. Just use him the way he's supposed to be used at RE and let the man ball.

4. Kiwi is a JAG. Let's face it. He's a JAG.

So there you have it. Our DL in a nutshell.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-17-2012, 12:51 PM
Now we need to focus on the future. Tuck is done, Osi is gone, then what? Kiwi, JPP, Ojomo, and maybe a draft pick on the DL? How about we actually be aggressive and blitz to complement these pass rushers? I don't want the system premise to be all based on the pass rush. If that fails, then we get bent over and railed!

I want an aggressive system. I believe that fits us the best and our of all the systems, and DCs, that system we ran with Spags is the one I prefer. Now, that doesn't mean I want Spags back or anything like that but that aggressive mentality is what I prefer to the Tim Lewis, Sheridan, and Fewell systems.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-17-2012, 01:43 PM
One day later, and it still feels crappy to have lost like that yesterday.

One thing I've thought about, and I'm not saying it's anything more than a strange coincidence, but still:

We always lose games in which we are "dedicating our games to something" Whether it was last years season opener for the 9/11 rememberance game, or this season, the Hurricane Sandy game against the steelers, and the shooting tragedy game last night. What's up with that? Weird stuff.

At this point in the season I almost hope that if we are going to miss the playoffs, I'd rather just lose to the Ravens and be done with it. If we win over the Ravens (which I suspect we will), and then lose to the Eagles and miss the playoffs by the hands of them, I will be furious. And it would be typical Giant style. We have had horrible losses to the Eagles the last years.

scottyboy
12-17-2012, 01:46 PM
Kiwi being a JAG is our 2nd best DE though. So there's that. Don't blame the coaching staff for jerking JPP around and his lack of success and then go after Kiwi. **** if we just kept him at DE who knows where he/we'd be

Rosebud
12-17-2012, 02:02 PM
I'd love to see us draft a DL or DB in the first two rounds. There seem to be a lot of gifted DL kids in this draft and picking up another corner or safety would do the d a world of good.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-17-2012, 02:17 PM
You think JPP is starting to get frustrated with Tuck? If I read between the lines on some of his statements, and cross-reference them to what Tuck always says, it sounds like he's getting tired of what Tuck is preaching.

JPP on twitter: "So embarrassed right now, Really WTF was that! We played like s*** Real talk."

Tuck said this today, to which JPP answered:

“We have had crappy games like this and came right back out and played like Super Bowl champions,” defensive end Justin Tuck said, via Newsday’s Tom Rock. “No, my confidence is not shaken.”

On the other hand, the third straight year of ridiculous Week 15 losses is a trend that lasts beyond the more recent resilience, which some are getting tired of hearing about.

“That don’t mean nothing,” defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul said. “That was last year. All that talk that we been here before, forget all that. I’m tired of hearing it. We just have to go out and play. There’s no ‘we been here before.’ “

Damix
12-17-2012, 02:23 PM
Another year another second half collapse. EVERY ******* YEAR.

Forenci
12-17-2012, 02:28 PM
Haha, how can you not love JPP? He's saying all the things you should say as a player.

And many of us fans have fallen into the same thing mind set of Tuck. Except as fans we're allowed to do that but as players that is an awful mindset to have.

"We'll turn it on when we need to?" or "Just look at last year" is a terrible way to look at things as a players. It's obvious he only tries when he has to. What happened last season doesn't mean jack. Seems like Tuck won his second Super Bowl and doesn't really care anymore now.

That's why I always scoff and DO get nervous unlike many Giants fans during the course of this year. Last year is last year. It doesn't mean anything to this current season. The league changes, rosters change, and teams get older and younger. To base anything off a previous season or heck, even earlier in the season, is crazy.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-17-2012, 02:28 PM
That's on coaching. Also, I wonder if towards the end of the season, how both sides of the ball deal with adding tendency breakers to keep from teams zeroing in on specific things.

In fact, I look at this every year as the season unfolds. A team can come out and dominate early on, however, I am more interested in if that happens once there is 9 + games of film to watch.

What is the rate this team adds things as the season unfolds? Someone asked TC about the late season struggles, and I believe his answer was he is not sure, he has kept things the same.

Isn't that the definition of insanity? Keep doing the same thing, and expecting different results. If this is an issue, do something different. If it's drastic so be it.

Maybe assign the Pro personnel scouts or the video guys to scout the team throughout the season. So that before the BYE week they can get a snap shot of tendencies so that you don't have to wait until the BYE week to self scout. Basically, have the guys do that for you.

That was the pro active nature that led to scouting the ref crews that I worked on. Perhaps a model can be used or something or someone utilized to self scout so that you don't need to wait until the BYE week. It's always there and thus you can make adjustments quicker.

D-Unit
12-17-2012, 02:31 PM
At least you guys have your health for the most part. Gives you hope going into your last 2 games that the ability is there. Cowboys are picking guys off the street. Gives me less hope about beating NOR and WAS. We have to rely on sheer fight.

D-Unit
12-17-2012, 02:32 PM
Another year another second half collapse. EVERY ******* YEAR.
That's a funny thing to say for a reigning SB champ. haha.

Damix
12-17-2012, 02:37 PM
That's a funny thing to say for a reigning SB champ. haha.

Both years we've won the super bowl we've also had dreadful second halves. It has been every year since Coughlin has been here. There have been some excuses, rookie Eli taking over for Kurt, Plax shooting himself. But its not just those, it is every year.

D-Unit
12-17-2012, 02:54 PM
Both years we've won the super bowl we've also had dreadful second halves. It has been every year since Coughlin has been here. There have been some excuses, rookie Eli taking over for Kurt, Plax shooting himself. But its not just those, it is every year.
You guys have killer second halfs. Both SB wins came off amazing hot streaks.

Rosebud
12-17-2012, 04:20 PM
You guys have killer second halfs. Both SB wins came off amazing hot streaks.

Hot streaks that started after some serious bed ********. Like yesterday.

D-Unit
12-17-2012, 04:59 PM
Hot streaks that started after some serious bed ********. Like yesterday.
Still gotta love them hot streaks though! I just saw Brodeur post that the Lions have only won 1 playoff game in 50 years. Sometimes, I think we're too harsh on our NFC East teams.

Malaka
12-17-2012, 06:36 PM
If we resign Tuck I will be outraged. Osi is gone. As for Kiwi, I guess if a JAG is solid... then that's what he is solid, but at this point I'd prefer him as a rotational guy.

I feel like Scott in his mock read my mind. I think we take Ezekiel Ansah out BYU if he's there with our pick. JPP at RE and Ansah at LE... scary duo.

I am happy Beatty stepped up this year. If keeps his play up he can definitely be the LT of the future. However, Snee is declining rapidly, Diehl is a turnstile. Its time we take take a lineman with a premium pick either round 1 or 2.

Ideally in the third round we will draft another corner/safety. As long as we get someone for the secondary within the first three picks I am happy.

As for LBs I think were atrocious but honestly in this day and age of football they are just not that important anymore. Nickel base defense... two backers Boley and Jacquian that's all I want next season.

Also with both Osi and Tuck gone. I think there is a good chance we can re-sign Linval Joseph. I am only for this if he comes at the right price. He is replaceable, but we only have so many picks in the draft. I do not think he will get Barry Cofield overpaid. It will be interesting to see what JR does with KP though he is a huge part of the D... but that knee... why did he have to get hurt :/ Lastly, resign Martellus! I promise he will be the best TE we ever need in this offense. Good blocking, athletic... let Pope and Eli do the rest; he will be solid.

Forenci
12-17-2012, 06:38 PM
I like Ansah quite a bit. I think with our staff and JPP to help him out he could be become a stud.

Kiwi we just need to make a decision. We've jerked him around WAY too often which has probably hurt his development and consistency. He needs to be a linebacker or a DE, end of story.

Personally I say DE because I think he is a JAG linebacker, but can be a good DE.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-17-2012, 06:51 PM
We should be harsh! We are the best division in football historically. We are in big time media markets and have tons of history on both franchises. We are not some garbage team who have been bottom dwellers. We should expect nothing but the best. Look at the Cards, a flash in a pan with Warner, and now back to being terrible which is par for their franchise history.

Our teams aren't like that and so our fans shouldn't expect anything less then being good. If we are not it's a slap in the face.

bigbluedefense
12-18-2012, 08:24 AM
It could be worse. We could be the Jets.

Giantsfan1080
12-18-2012, 08:41 AM
Oh boy that would be awful.

Thankfully the Ravens are playing even worse than us right now while we go down there. Hopefully they don't run Rice all that much like always because the WR's they have are not nearly as good as ATL.

bigbluedefense
12-18-2012, 09:14 AM
Speaking of the Jets, just watching how brilliant Rex Ryan is on defense with his scheme just makes me hate Perry Fewell even more. Can you imagine how good our defense could be if Ryan was in charge of it?

The scheme is excellent. Perfect for our team. It's really frustrating to see how unimaginative our defense is.

Now that doesn't excuse our players at all, we don't tackle well, we don't cover well, and our DL gives inconsistent effort. So the issues are more on the players than the scheme, but the scheme doesn't do anything to help matters either.

I just wish we used some of the zone blitz concepts that Ryan uses. We are such a basic (from a pressure standpoint) that relies way too much on our front 4.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-18-2012, 09:33 AM
I do like the blitz packages and how you don't know who is coming or who is dropping. Also... God, Sanchez is soooooooo bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Giantsfan1080
12-18-2012, 10:08 AM
Maybe the D will decide to step it up finally going against an offense that's a complte mess. The way we tackle watch Rice go for 200 on us though.

Forenci
12-18-2012, 10:55 AM
Haha, yes being a Jets fan would be awful. All the Jets fans on the board are pretty cool but my god do I hate almost all of them I know. When they're winning they won't shut up and think they're guaranteed a Super Bowl and when they're losing its the end of the world and they're depressing and cynical as hell.

And Sanchez is so terrible. Always has been. If he hadn't been carried to two AFC championship games in his first two years no one would even give him a second thought. People to seem to think that was a result of him in some way, when it was really just a result of an amazing defense and run game.

They really need to start Tebow. Their seasons is over and Sanchez is god awful. Tebow isn't better, but who cares at this point?

Well that's enough Jets ranting. I want Ansah sooo bad. He could easily play inside on a lot of downs as he has experience at the position in college too.

BaLLiN
12-18-2012, 12:24 PM
does anyone have tickets to the giants-eagles game?

Big_Pete
12-18-2012, 07:48 PM
I hope the front office can get an extension sorted with Victor Cruz soon.

Tey have been rumoured to be working on an extension for some time, yet haven't gotten anything done.

From all reports, the 2013 cap is likely to be around the same as this years. Cruz is off contract as an RFA. If we can't get an extension done, it will get interesting.

The top RFA tender (this year $2.74 million) provides right of first refusal and a first round pick compentation.
With such a weak draft class at WR, I could see a team willing to give a 1st round pick to sign Cruz to a deal we can't afford to match (there are quite a few teams with considerable cap room)

I don't think we will be in a position to put a franchise tag on Cruz (this year's WR franchise number was $9.515 million).

bigbluedefense
12-19-2012, 12:10 PM
Cruz will be a Giant. Don't worry about that.

bigbluedefense
12-19-2012, 01:23 PM
Rewatching the Falcons game. Our offense is dated. Teams figured it out. And Nicks is 50% at best. And probably will remain that way all season.

This team, just isn't good enough this year. The talent on the field just isn't as good as last year. It's a combination of players not playing well, injuries, and teams figuring out our option rules.

Defensively, our secondary isn't nearly as good as last year, and our DL isn't either. The scheme is the same crappy scheme we ran last year, but the players have taken a nose dive.

Truth is, this team is not very talented this year. That's the cold hard truth. Our DBs aren't great, our LB core is mediocre, and our DL has more flair than substance.

We aged as a team, almost uniformly. Usually you see 1 or 2 players hit the wall and you move on. We've seen a good 6 players hit the wall this year all at the same time. That's hard to recover from. It's time for a roster overhaul, this unit had their 4 year run together, but they're old, injured, and inexperienced this year. A combination of those 3 really did us in this year.

We might get into the playoffs. Might. But don't expect a SB run from this team, they're just not good enough.

It's gonna take a out of this world effort from our DL all postseason and Nicks to magically play like a healthy Nicks for that to happen. And I don't see that happening.

Giantsfan1080
12-19-2012, 01:34 PM
You could have said the same thing after Week 15 last year. Besides a broken Nicks it's very comparable.

Rosebud
12-19-2012, 01:38 PM
A healthy Nicks, Prince and Phillips completely changes the complexion of this team. Depending on if we can at least get the two DBs back on the field and Nicks gets any better, we can absolutely go on another run. I'm not expecting a SB, but I do think we can go to the NFC championship game, and if we get that far who knows how much further we go.

Damix
12-19-2012, 01:45 PM
We've watched this team dominate good teams this year, have fourth quarter comebacks and rally from early deficits. If we make the playoffs I don't see why we couldn't go on a run like last year.

The issue is making the playoffs now, we lost too many winnable games and have put ourselves in a bad position in pretty much a must win game against a very good team. I know baltimore hasn't played well lately, but thats a dangerous team still.

bigbluedefense
12-19-2012, 01:46 PM
There's 2 huge differences btw last year and this year:

1. On offense our WR core isn't even close to last year. Nicks isn't healthy this year, Cruz is getting swarmed in the slot, and we haven't replaced Mario. And they figured out our option rules. It's not even close. This isn't something that will fix itself in 2 weeks. This is a problem that will require an entire offseason to fix.

2. On defense, we don't have the same Corey Webster anymore. This is significant because we don't have a lockdown CB anymore and that effects our coverages and our ability to bring pressure. Prince is good, but he's not ready to be what Corey was in his prime. Webster hit the wall, and he's not magically gonna find that magic again.

The other factors could turn around, but those 2 factors, which are significant factors, will not magically fix themselves.

Look, I said at the beginning of the year that I don't expect to repeat as Champs and that a successful season to me is winning 1 playoff game. I still believe we can do that.

And that's fine. I just think that if we're expecting last year's magic to happen again just bc, then you're fooling yourself.

Giantsfan1080
12-19-2012, 01:46 PM
We are better this year in almost every stat than last year also. We're better offensively this year!! I don't expect the same exact thing to happen but this team is still a good NFL playoff team. Get in and maybe win a game or two and I'll be very happy.

Giantsfan1080
12-19-2012, 01:49 PM
From BBI:


Total Offense (Yards): 2011: 8th (385.1); 2012: 10th (364.6)
Points per Game: 2011: 9th (24.6); 2012: 6th (26.6)
Passing: 2011: 5th (295.9); 2012: 9th (249.6)
Rushing: 2011: 32nd (89.2); 2012: 15th (115.0)
Total Defense (Yards): 2011: 27th (376.4); 2012: 28th (377.4)
Points Allowed Per Game: 2011: 25th (25.0); 2012: 12th (21.7)
Pass Defense: 2011: 29th (255.1); 2012: 28th (253.7)
Rush Defense: 2011: 19th (121.2); 2012: 22nd (123.7)

bigbluedefense
12-19-2012, 02:02 PM
I'm not concerned about the stats, I'm concerned with how they're getting those stats.

Last year's defense had communication break downs. This year's defense is just not as good, they don't have as many breakdowns but they're not as talented either.

Offensively, from a scheme perspective we have some major issues we didn't have last year. Look at Eli's #s.

LonghornsLegend
12-19-2012, 02:07 PM
And Nicks is 50% at best. And probably will remain that way all season. .

This is painfully obvious and it sucks. For someone who is just a fan of the game like me, you hate having to see a player gut it up and go play injured and it gives the appearance that's just what they have become now, but Nicks can barely explode anymore he's just using his huge hands and body to shield defenders.


When you see him from the playoff run you guys made last year, and to right now, he's totally different. Having that type of difference maker that you can throw the ball up to in the end zone, or give a slant and have make something happen is a massive advantage to have and he was in a complete zone last year. Really wanted to see him grow coming off of that performance, but if he is banged up again next year it's going to make contract discussions very tricky.

bigbluedefense
12-19-2012, 02:12 PM
This is painfully obvious and it sucks. For someone who is just a fan of the game like me, you hate having to see a player gut it up and go play injured and it gives the appearance that's just what they have become now, but Nicks can barely explode anymore he's just using his huge hands and body to shield defenders.


When you see him from the playoff run you guys made last year, and to right now, he's totally different. Having that type of difference maker that you can throw the ball up to in the end zone, or give a slant and have make something happen is a massive advantage to have and he was in a complete zone last year. Really wanted to see him grow coming off of that performance, but if he is banged up again next year it's going to make contract discussions very tricky.

Yeah the guy is a million bucks when healthy but now we have to factor injuries into his contract if we offer him one bc he hasn't had a single season where he was healthy all season.

I don't think we can use this as an excuse though. Because Dallas is 10X more banged up than we are, and they're doing just fine. I hate seeing that as well, Dallas's defense could be so sick when healthy. You guys have quietly developed one of the best LB cores in the league with Ware, Spencer playing out of his mind this year, Carter and Lee inside. But losing Lee and Carter was huge for you guys. And Carr has been worth every penny, and Clairborne is gonna be a keeper as well. Get a 9 tech and a safety and watch out. This defense is already top 5, I can't wait to see how good it could be with those 2 additional pieces.

The only thing we can hope for is that Randle magically steps it up, but I don't think that's gonna happen because he's struggling with our option concepts. Most rookies do.

The more realistic option for us is to hope that Wilson provides a spark. I think he can do it. I'm gonna take the Falcons game as just one of those games. He didn't play well, but the whole team didn't play well.

Giantsfan1080
12-19-2012, 02:13 PM
I'm not concerned about the stats, I'm concerned with how they're getting those stats.

Last year's defense had communication break downs. This year's defense is just not as good, they don't have as many breakdowns but they're not as talented either.

Offensively, from a scheme perspective we have some major issues we didn't have last year. Look at Eli's #s.

I already proved to you that this year's defense has actually had more breakdowns and it's still better statistically in PPG by far. I think we've had more defensive takeaways this year also compared to last. Offensively our running game is a million times better and Bennett is better than Ballard while Hixon has done less than Mario. It's not scheme, it's Eli playing down to his average self. He's made some terrible decisions this year that he didn't make last year. I agree the Nicks injury has hurt us but the offense is more or less the same.

bigbluedefense
12-19-2012, 02:16 PM
I already proved to you that this year's defense has actually had more breakdowns and it's still better statistically in PPG by far. I think we've had more defensive takeaways this year also compared to last. Offensively our running game is a million times better and Bennett is better than Ballard while Hixon has done less than Mario. It's not scheme, it's Eli playing down to his average self. He's made some terrible decisions this year that he didn't make last year. I agree the Nicks injury has hurt us but the offense is more or less the same.

You proved we've given up more big plays this year. That doesn't mean those big plays were the result of communication breakdowns. A lot of those big plays were bc our DBs just aren't as good as last year.

Look at Julio's 2 TDs this past week. It wasn't due to a coverage breakdown. He just roasted our secondary. THAT is what worries me. Last year it was a guy running wide open down the field bc they lost their assignment. This year guys are just getting beat fair and square. HUGE difference.

Giantsfan1080
12-19-2012, 02:22 PM
You proved we've given up more big plays this year. That doesn't mean those big plays were the result of communication breakdowns. A lot of those big plays were bc our DBs just aren't as good as last year.

Look at Julio's 2 TDs this past week. It wasn't due to a coverage breakdown. He just roasted our secondary. THAT is what worries me. Last year it was a guy running wide open down the field bc they lost their assignment. This year guys are just getting beat fair and square. HUGE difference.

More than half of the big passing plays this year have been breakdowns. Regardless our defense PPG wise is still playing incredibly better than last year. I think Prince is smidge worse than Webster played last year while Webster is playing just as bas CB 2 last year. The S play this year has been much better especially Phillips is in there. I'd call it a wash. The DL play is worse but besides JPP we were complaining about the same thing last year that nobody was getting to the QB.

bigbluedefense
12-19-2012, 02:35 PM
Prince has been lights out, but keep in mind he's doing it vs the opposition's #2 WR.

Webster did it vs the opposition's #1. Big difference.

I think next year the roles will be flipped, and Prince will step up to the challenge, but right here right now, he's not quite there yet.

Rosebud
12-19-2012, 02:58 PM
Prince stepped up in the playoffs last year, what if he does that again? With Phillips back and the DL playing the way they did against the 9ers and GB, that's a defense that can boss any offense on their day.

Offensively it's all Nicks, Hixon's no mario but he's solid, just like Ballard was no Bennett but was solid, with Wilson and a better OL the running game has been a weapon as well. But Nicks being so much less than he was last year is what hurts us and why I don't expect us to repeat, but at this point we're a lot better than last years team was in a lot of ways, at least in this point of their season.

bigbluedefense
12-19-2012, 03:24 PM
Canty needs to get healthy too. I think we all underestimated how important Canty is to the middle of our defense.

Big_Pete
12-20-2012, 01:33 PM
Last season at this stage we were 7-7 and needed to win our last two games to make the playoffs.

This year we are 8-6 and had have to win our last two games to make the playoffs.

This team has proven that it can do it and certainly know what needs to be done. It is just a case of getting the job done.

I certainly think this team hasn't played up to their potential yet thus year.

I am pretty confident we can get the job done. Once we are in the playoffs, we all know what this team can do

scottyboy
12-20-2012, 01:45 PM
i think we showed our true potential when we smacked down the packers.

but then showed classic giants meltdown with bad losses

LonghornsLegend
12-20-2012, 02:04 PM
Prince has been lights out, but keep in mind he's doing it vs the opposition's #2 WR.

Webster did it vs the opposition's #1. Big difference.

I think next year the roles will be flipped, and Prince will step up to the challenge, but right here right now, he's not quite there yet.

Are you guys 100% sold yet on Prince, need more time, strong #2 or potential really good #1? CB's are tough to gauge because they can be so up and down their first 3 years. We saw Jenkins go from flashes, to pro bowl, to suckage, to now he's settled in as a physical, athletic really solid #2 type CB that some team will probably pay to be #1 next year.


What I see from Prince is the coverage skills, but not much play-maker ability. I think if you put him on a guy like Austin he'd do just fine, don't know that he'd shut him out but he would be over him all game. I haven't really seen those elite ball skills I like to see from a CB, or a knack for the football. Then again I haven't seen him play that much this year, and maybe that's just not his game.


He's got good hips though, and doesn't bite on many double moves, he's usually right on top of the ball when it's thrown which is good. Considering all the missed time he's had with injuries he could still have a long way to go, was just curious on how he's perceived at this point.

scottyboy
12-20-2012, 02:12 PM
he's solid. He doesn't have those ball skills but I'm ok with that. He's been a bit inconsistent but that's somewhat expected. He's tackled much better and shown some moxy of late, which is nice. I think he'll be a very good #2 with potential to be a good #1 guy. He won't make the plays, but he's a good cover corner.

Rosebud
12-20-2012, 02:22 PM
Prince seems like Corey 2.0 when he's healthy enough to play. Neither have great playmaking skills, but their length, hips, toughness and quick thinking make them excellent cover guys. If he stays healthy he should continue on Corey's path to becoming an excellent #1.

Big_Pete
12-20-2012, 04:46 PM
What do people think on Terrell Thomas's ability to completely recover from his injury?

Should we be looking at CB earlier in the draft?

Forenci
12-20-2012, 05:34 PM
Agreed. He might not have the playmaking ability, but I firmly believe that's an overrated skill for a corner. A lot of so-called play making CB's do it because they take a lot of unnecessary chances.

I'd rather just have a lockdown cover guy. If he happens to be great at playmaking and creating turn overs, that's awesome. If not, no harm done really.

I think Prince projects are number 1 guy. He's been great this year.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-20-2012, 05:52 PM
Justin Tuck may be out this sunday. At this point I'm not sure if it weakens or strengthens our chances of winning. Maybe without him out there, moping around and giving a half-assed effort, we would win.

But then again, this is exactly the type of game Tuck would show up to, and play to the best of his abilities in.

I keep getting more and more nervous for this game. A horrible result could make my mood real bad for christmas eve, the gifts and the family dinner.

And to top it off, I've worked 50 hours this week already, so I'm in kind of a pissy mood even now.

Please win, Giants.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-20-2012, 05:55 PM
What do people think on Terrell Thomas's ability to completely recover from his injury?

Should we be looking at CB earlier in the draft?

We should absolutely be looking at CB early. Terrell Thomas is probably done. Few players ever recover from multiple ACL injuries to the same knee. Although the Panthers LB (Davis?) keeps on coming back and performing good after tearing the same ACL.

Either way, we can never rely on Thomas again. We just have to take it as an added bonus if he can come back and play for us. It's such a shame he has bad knees. He looked like he was going to become a real difference-maker on our defense.

scottyboy
12-20-2012, 06:34 PM
man, TT being healthy would've just been so awesome. he was so good too. ugh

Giantsfan1080
12-20-2012, 06:50 PM
I actually thought Thomas was a but overrated by Giants fans. I'd like to have him but he wasn't as good as everyone would say.

Big_Pete
12-20-2012, 07:46 PM
We should absolutely be looking at CB early. Terrell Thomas is probably done. Few players ever recover from multiple ACL injuries to the same knee. Although the Panthers LB (Davis?) keeps on coming back and performing good after tearing the same ACL.

Either way, we can never rely on Thomas again. We just have to take it as an added bonus if he can come back and play for us. It's such a shame he has bad knees. He looked like he was going to become a real difference-maker on our defense.

I think there is some reason tobe optimistic with Terrell Thomas, he was cleared medically to start practicing last off season before going to IR (it looked like it was just too soon to handle the rigors of football).

With a full year to rehab and strengthen it, there is every chance he can play. Thomas is not likely to be a starter, but he could be a valuable contributer behind Amukamara and Webster.

bigbluedefense
12-21-2012, 06:56 AM
I think Prince's ceiling is Corey Webster. Which I'll gladly take. I think at the very worst, he'll be a lockdown #2. I think he has #1 potential, but we won't know that until next year most likely.

Thomas isn't coming back guys. He's done. And even if by some miracle he does come back, we're still cutting him bc of the salary.

As for Tuck, meh. It's probably an upgrade that he doesn't start. I'm done with Tuck. It's one thing after another with him, it's time to move on. The constant moping and excuse making doesn't help me feel sympathetic towards him either.

Loved what he gave us for his career, will always love the guy, but it's time to move on. He's done.

What I found interesting was we're not the only Giant fans to notice this. When I read the PFT article and read the comments, you can see pretty much all of the Giant fans that commented acknowledge that Tuck is washed up.

He's a name guy now, nothing more. The production is gone.

Giantsfan1080
12-21-2012, 08:29 AM
People everywhere have noticed his production has dropped. He was the same last year besides a handful of games after that metting with Coughlin. I just think the moping thing that you are harping on is a bit unjustified. It sounds like the Eli haters in the beginning of his career. Tuck is a competitor and wants to win just as much as anyone else. I have been saying this for a while but it would be no shock at all if he hung them up after this year.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-21-2012, 09:39 AM
I'm not concerned about the stats, I'm concerned with how they're getting those stats.

Last year's defense had communication break downs. This year's defense is just not as good, they don't have as many breakdowns but they're not as talented either.

Offensively, from a scheme perspective we have some major issues we didn't have last year. Look at Eli's #s.

Yeah stats are misleading. I didn't know our stats but just watching our scheme, and watching the WRs closely, and the routes associated with this system, you can see after couple games that the opposing defenses do know something and playing us very well. They are route reading better than I have seen throughout TC's tenure here. I can't remember a season where this was happening.

That's why I told you from a while back after watching that something is up, and I thought the system was dated. That Cbs were in our WR's hip pocket. Before the WR breaks on his route, the CB is reading it and breaking to the landmark before our WR gets there. That's leading to Ints, or near ints, resulting in pass break ups.

I think you were the first person I told.

Giantsfan1080
12-21-2012, 01:22 PM
Questionable
C David Baas - Hip/Shoulder (LP)
TE Travis Beckum - Knee (LP)
RB Ahmad Bradshaw - Knee/Foot (LP)
S Kenny Phillips - Knee (LP)
S Tyler Sash - Hamstring (LP)
G Chris Snee - Hip (LP)
DE Justin Tuck - Shoulder (DNP)

Probable
CB Prince Amukamara - Hamstring (FP)
DT Chris Canty - Neck (FP)
WR Hakeem Nicks - Knee (LP)
WR Rueben Randle - Back (FP)

Giantsfan1080
12-21-2012, 02:10 PM
Not what I like to hear with 2 huge games coming up:


Giants RapidReports ‏@CBSGiants

Coughlin admitted "it may take an offseason" to address the issues with the pass rush. #NYG

Rosebud
12-21-2012, 04:47 PM
If that's not TC calling out Tuck, I dunno what would be.

Giantsfan1080
12-21-2012, 09:41 PM
Calling out Tuck? It's calling out everyone and Fewell.

OSUGiants17
12-21-2012, 11:50 PM
It may take firing Fewell and getting some more youth into our pass-rush.

scottyboy
12-22-2012, 02:11 AM
dont worry guys, i'll be a DE next year and get awesome passrush. i may not have an awesome scrabble name or do backflips, but i got this ****. don't worry.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-22-2012, 11:05 AM
Sweet! We can hire BBD as our DC, I will be OC. BBD, I take it your system will be very aggressive?

Giantsfan1080
12-22-2012, 12:39 PM
No Lewis tomorrow.

Big_Pete
12-23-2012, 03:03 AM
If Fewell was to depart (for whatever reason) who are the viable options as a defensive coordinator?

scottyboy
12-23-2012, 08:06 AM
Jessie armstead Jessie armstead Jessie armstead

BigBlueNorwegian
12-23-2012, 09:37 AM
Jessie armstead Jessie armstead Jessie armstead

Is he even a coach? Has he had any coaching experience as a coordinator? We need someone who knows what he's doing.

scottyboy
12-23-2012, 10:44 AM
he's like an assistant LB coach. I'm kidding for the most part. Jessie's just my all time favorite Giant

Big_Pete
12-23-2012, 02:56 PM
Adam Schefter has tweeted:

Giants director of college scouting Marc Ross has emerged as a leading candidate to become the Panthers next general manager, per sources.

Looks like there will be some front office shake up

Forenci
12-23-2012, 04:28 PM
Well Webster is washed up. Clearly the Ravens know it and are exposing him.

Damix
12-23-2012, 04:45 PM
back to Tim Lewis defense, zero faith we get off the field on 3rd down unless the other team screws up.

Forenci
12-23-2012, 04:52 PM
Yeah. If nothing else hopefully this gets Fewell fired.

OSUGiants17
12-23-2012, 04:59 PM
So we don't even deserve to make the playoffs at this point. Fire Kevin and Perry and rebuild the trenches. Need new OL and DL. Big turn around about to happen these next 2 years fellas.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-23-2012, 05:03 PM
I HATE FEWELL! What a useless side of the ball that is! Our offensive system is quickly becoming troublesome and I am starting to hate it a lot faster now.

Old players and injury prone players we have. We look so bad and old all of a sudden. Bad system, old and hurt DL, and old CB getting slapped around.

Hurt and old OL, and a hurt and young RB, getting ELi killed. Cruz is a gamer, but invisible, and Nicks is young and injury prone.

Can someone healthy play at a top level?

I'd rather get a paper cut on the head of my.. then watch this terrible performance! Wake up TC! Every year towards the end of the regular season this happens! FIX IT!

OSUGiants17
12-23-2012, 05:17 PM
Seriously I just want this nightmare November/December to be over. Merry Christmas to you guys, have a good holiday, better luck next year. I honestly don't even want to make the playoffs this year. We flat out don't deserve it. Tough schedule, injuries and **** play calling all year long. On the bight side, at least we're not the Jets

Big_Pete
12-23-2012, 05:40 PM
Yeah. If nothing else hopefully this gets Fewell fired.

Very likely

I'm not sure Coughlin is safe to be honest, the way we are finishing this season reminds me of 2003. It would be a tough call but the players don't seem to be responding to him.

Forenci
12-23-2012, 05:51 PM
Haha. Hopefully this stops the mind set of Giants fans thinking we can turn it on whenever we feel like it. Clearly the worriers were justified in their concerns (Norwegian and NYG).

And Coughlin will be fine. He's coming off a Super Bowl win. Fewell will be on the hot seat. I wish I could say Gilbride will but he won't.

bigbluedefense
12-23-2012, 05:54 PM
It's time to rebuild. The old talent on this team all got old at the same time. And hopefully Fewell gets fired. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I hope he's gone.

We need better linebackers, better DTs, better tackling, and better CBs. The whole defense just sucks right now outside of JPP, Osi, JWill, Kenny, and Prince.

You can pretty much gut the rest of the starting lineup and start over again.

Offense needs a new playbook. Our playbook is dated. And Nick's injury killed our offense.

Next year will be interesting. But this year is over.

LTgiants
12-23-2012, 05:55 PM
Osi sucks too.

bigbluedefense
12-23-2012, 05:58 PM
Osi is good at what we ask him to do: rush the passer. He did it better than anyone else on the team this year.

As a pass rush specialist on 3rd down, Osi still has value on this team. He's not a starter and shouldn't start anymore, but he has value as a pass rush specialist.

Doesn't matter though, he's probably gone too.

scottyboy
12-23-2012, 05:59 PM
we need to hit on our draft picks this year. and like, big time

NY+Giants=NYG
12-23-2012, 06:10 PM
It's time to rebuild. The old talent on this team all got old at the same time. And hopefully Fewell gets fired. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I hope he's gone.

We need better linebackers, better DTs, better tackling, and better CBs. The whole defense just sucks right now outside of JPP, Osi, JWill, Kenny, and Prince.

You can pretty much gut the rest of the starting lineup and start over again.

Offense needs a new playbook. Our playbook is dated. And Nick's injury killed our offense.

Next year will be interesting. But this year is over.




I see all these aggressive 3-4 defense that blitz in a creative fashion, and I want one. We won 2 SBs, and that's cool. But it's hit our miss with our coordinators.

I am done with that. Get me a 3-4 where guys have to be used in a creative fashion.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-23-2012, 06:14 PM
Haha. Hopefully this stops the mind set of Giants fans thinking we can turn it on whenever we feel like it. Clearly the worriers were justified in their concerns (Norwegian and NYG).

And Coughlin will be fine. He's coming off a Super Bowl win. Fewell will be on the hot seat. I wish I could say Gilbride will but he won't.

Well, I will say this. I been watching football way too long. Only sport I watch and care about. Hence me investing time to coach and try to make to the NFL. So I'd like to think people saw something in me to allow me to get to the doorstep.

When I say my hand was on the panic button I mean it. I am not being dramatic, I see things which bother me and so I say it. If people respectfully disagree, that's fine. It's a MB, but doesn't mean I am wrong. In my mind I am 10000% correct,and I trust my skill set in analyzing football.

Rosebud
12-23-2012, 06:16 PM
Adam Schefter has tweeted:



Looks like there will be some front office shake up

NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! This would piss me off more than missing the playoffs.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-23-2012, 06:17 PM
Ross to the Panthers as an option I read somewhere.

Big_Pete
12-23-2012, 06:19 PM
Well, I will say this. I been watching football way too long. Only sport I watch and care about. Hence me investing time to coach and try to make to the NFL. So I'd like to think people saw something in me to allow me to get to the doorstep.

When I say my hand was on the panic button I mean it. I am not being dramatic, I see things which bother me and so I say it. If people respectfully disagree, that's fine. It's a MB, but doesn't mean I am wrong. In my mind I am 10000% correct,and I trust my skill set in analyzing football.

I appreciate your analysis NYG

Just curious what do you think are the top 5 priorities next offseason to turn things around?

Rosebud
12-23-2012, 06:24 PM
Our Defense needs to snag one of the super talented DL in this draft another corner. Prince is a stud, Hosley has talent, Kenny's great, Rolle's really good, and with Brown and Hill we've got some depth, but we need one more corner to replace Corey. If we could upgrade at DC that would be awesome to, but the talent needs to be improved as well. This is my biggest concern.

Offensively we need Randle to step up over the summer and the OL to improve. Beatty's shown he's worth bringing back, Baas has validated his contract, Bootey's a good backup and Locklear's a solid swing tackle, but we need to get a better guard play and make sure Diehl can not start again.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-23-2012, 06:27 PM
I appreciate your analysis NYG

Just curious what do you think are the top 5 priorities next offseason to turn things around?

Thanks Big Pete, I appreciate it.

Well, I more worried about the big picture. That's what I saw that led me to panic. The offensive system being what it is, and the defensive side of the ball totally useless. Those are system things.

I told my friend via text, that this team looks old. Like Old and hurt type of thing. So that's an issue. But even if we had all pro people, I don't trust the system. That SB run and win saved Perry Fewell. Outside of that, I didn't like his regular season coaching.

The offensive system hasn't been this bad in such a long time. We'd see games, like that thanksgiving game, or Eagles playoff game, but this is bad. This looks to me a mixture of injuries, age, and teams seeing something in our system and perhaps catching up to it.


Coughlin needs to look at the big picture and fix this late season break down. Is it lack of tendency breakers? Are teams using the more film later in the season, and out scheming us? For a HOF coach, this type of thing is unacceptable.

So the big picture issues I see as a big problem, but from a scheme perspective.

Big_Pete
12-23-2012, 06:35 PM
It certainly does seem like teams have figured out how to stop us on both sides of the ball, and for whatever reason we have not been able to adjust our schemes to compensate.

The question is, will Coughlin make the necessary adjustments?

LTgiants
12-23-2012, 06:36 PM
Well does he know what the adjustments are? Cause if he did he probably should have tried to make some already.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-23-2012, 06:46 PM
It certainly does seem like teams have figured out how to stop us on both sides of the ball, and for whatever reason we have not been able to adjust our schemes to compensate.

The question is, will Coughlin make the necessary adjustments?

Well from prior years not sure. I remember when rumors were out that the Maras forced TC to fire Lewis or Hufangel. Maybe we need to do that.

Also, I will say this, I don't watch baseball, but I do listen to the WFAN. Yankee fans said their team live and die with the home run ball.

I feel like this can be said about our offense. It's a home run type offense. How many home runs did we hit last year? Cruz was breaking off long TDs, and everything was great. This year we haven't done that and I think that is exposing our pass offense which needs to move the field methodically.

Quick game, and screens, and other things to sustain a drive we haven't been doing. 3rd down conversions on both sides of the ball need to be better. We need to convert them, and we need to stop them. Red zone efficiency this year is terrible!

Just bad stuff across the board. Watching the postgame now, and TC doesn't have answers, lol. That's not good!

Big_Pete
12-23-2012, 06:53 PM
Well from prior years not sure. I remember when rumors were out that the Maras forced TC to fire Lewis or Hufangel. Maybe we need to do that.


Hufnagel and Lewis were fired after the 2006 season, right before Reese took over as GM in January 2007, so presumably Reese was involved in forcing Coughlin's hand.

Forenci
12-23-2012, 06:57 PM
If Fewell isn't fired I will be livid. He has been awful all year. I mean, he's been pretty bad outside of our Super Bowl run. He needs to go.

I disagree with you on switching to the 3-4 though, NYG. You can be very creative in any defensive scheme. You just need the coaches for it. There's no way we can switch schemes. JPP is strictly a 4-3 DE. We have no DLine players who can play in the 3-4. No linebackers, outside of Kiwi, who can play in the 3-4. Plus I honestly think its harder to draft for the 3-4.

4-3 isnt the issue. We just need a good coordinator.

bigbluedefense
12-23-2012, 06:58 PM
I see all these aggressive 3-4 defense that blitz in a creative fashion, and I want one. We won 2 SBs, and that's cool. But it's hit our miss with our coordinators.

I am done with that. Get me a 3-4 where guys have to be used in a creative fashion.

4-3 and 3-4 don't mean ****. It's all about how you attack gaps. You can attack gaps in a 4-3 the same way you attack gaps in a 3-4 front. It's all the same ****.

Plus our franchise defender, JPP, is strictly a 4-3 defensive end. Build around him.

scottyboy
12-23-2012, 07:00 PM
can we just point out real quick how terribad Herzlich was? He missed more tackles than I can count.

JWill and Blackburn are our 2 best LB'ers. That's bad.

Ansah and Khaseem should be our first 2 picks. Re-stock this front 7.

Boom town.

oh, then OG's and DB's from there out in the draft.

Big_Pete
12-23-2012, 07:03 PM
if we retain the 4-3 scheme. who are the better options as DC?

If Dick Jauron an option?

Does anyone have much info on the scheme that the Browns are playing?

NY+Giants=NYG
12-23-2012, 07:05 PM
4-3 and 3-4 don't mean ****. It's all about how you attack gaps. You can attack gaps in a 4-3 the same way you attack gaps in a 3-4 front. It's all the same ****.

Plus our franchise defender, JPP, is strictly a 4-3 defensive end. Build around him.

JPP has done nothing this year. He actually looks fatter this year than last year. And I want an aggressive defense. True gaps are important but a 3-4 allows you to disguise your blitzes better or better than what we have done with Dumb, Dumber, and Dumbest, Lewis, Sheridan, and Fewell.

We need creativity. None of the god damn blitzes are getting home and that's IF we decide to blitz! QBs have ALL day to freaking the throw the mother.. f.. ball! That's BS!

Big_Pete
12-23-2012, 07:20 PM
JPP has done nothing this year. He actually looks fatter this year than last year. And I want an aggressive defense. True gaps are important but a 3-4 allows you to disguise your blitzes better or better than what we have done with Dumb, Dumber, and Dumbest, Lewis, Sheridan, and Fewell.

We need creativity. None of the god damn blitzes are getting home and that's IF we decide to blitz! QBs have ALL day to freaking the throw the mother.. f.. ball! That's BS!

I'd love to see a 3-4, but I am not sure Coughlin will go that far.

JPP could adapt to a 3-4 OLB imho, 4-3 DEs like Orakpo, Kerrigan, Matthis, Ellis, Hali etc have made the switch.

Jaquain Williams is probably not big enough to play inside in a 3-4, but probably could move to SS.

If we were to switch, NT would become our top need.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-23-2012, 07:24 PM
I'd love to see a 3-4, but I am not sure Coughlin will go that far.

JPP could adapt to a 3-4 OLB imho, 4-3 DEs like Orakpo, Kerrigan, Matthis, Ellis, Hali etc have made the switch.

Jaquain Williams is probably not big enough to play inside in a 3-4, but probably could move to SS.

If we were to switch, NT would become our top need.

Well we did well with the 4-3. We won 2 SBs, but on our 4th damn DC. I want an aggressive system with creative blitz packages. Not a damn system, that puts all its eggs in the pass rush basket, and prays they get home. The blitzes are terrible and barely get home and the system is so bad. That's why I mentioned it.

In a 3-4 system you are going to blitz and send guys, but where? Who? And in what way? That forces DCs to be creative and be aggressive. Otherwise what? Are we doomed to have Lewis, Sheridan, and Fewell? At least Spags was aggressive and used the DL as well. If we can find an aggressive DC in a 4-3 system, then fine. But I am tired of having terrible DCs.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-23-2012, 07:39 PM
Well, merry ******* christmas from all of the Giants players to us fans. What a horrible horrible loss. We are technically not out of it, but in reality this season is over. Whatever. Fire Fewell, Gilbride gets one more chance, but gets told that suckage like these final eight games is unacceptable.

Rebuild the trenches, they are old and overpaid on both sides. CB as well. I only want those three positions in the draft. O-line, D-line and CBs. LB could also be an area we need improvements in, but we do at least have some young guys there who could develop.

It would almost be better to lose to the Eagles next week. To get a higher draft position, and to lower the Eagles' draft position.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-23-2012, 07:43 PM
Well BBN looked like you were accurate with your earlier opinion on this team. Props to you. This was a bad loss and this team looks emotionally dead. I hope we win next week. That would mean since ELi has started a full season, we have yet to have a losing season. So 9-7 would be nice.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-23-2012, 07:55 PM
Well BBN looked like you were accurate with your earlier opinion on this team. Props to you. This was a bad loss and this team looks emotionally dead.


I wanted us to be wrong so badly. But this years team just didn't pass the eyeball-test in my pretty uneducated opinion. Last year, after the Packers loss in the regular season, I could see the fire and belief in the players eyes. This year i've for the most part just seen lethargy and smugness.

Like they're satisfied with winning last year, and this year isn't that important, because there's no jobs that are in danger. That's why I think the coaching staff and players should be shaken up in a big way after the season. Show them that they will be held accountable for not doing their jobs with any kind of consistency.

Big_Pete
12-23-2012, 07:57 PM
In a 3-4 system you are going to blitz and send guys, but where? Who? And in what way? That forces DCs to be creative and be aggressive. Otherwise what? Are we doomed to have Lewis, Sheridan, and Fewell? At least Spags was aggressive and used the DL as well. If we can find an aggressive DC in a 4-3 system, then fine. But I am tired of having terrible DCs.

I am completely with you there NYG

I guess it depends on who shakes loose, but we definitely need to mix it up a lot more.

OSUGiants17
12-23-2012, 08:07 PM
JPP, Williams, Prince, KP and Rolle are the only players worth keeping on this D right now. Finding a new DC that wants to come here and keep the 4-3 shouldn't be hard. Coaches should be salivating at the opportunity to work with JPP and co. We can build around those 5, but we need more guys who can play downhill at LB and attack and better younger pass rushers. It's going to take a few years to rebuild this D, but our offense is set(outside of needing some re-tooling on the OL). We need more depth at DT, another DE to groom, fresh LBs who can attack and another CB. If over the next 2 years if we can sure up at least our DL and secondary then this team is capable of another run. Until we can get back to rushing the passer effectively and often, we're screwed. I want Ansah and Greene this year, they would fit here perfectly.

Rosebud
12-23-2012, 08:09 PM
We still need another corner, while we'd all like another LB, it's not nearly as crucial as another pass rusher and CB.

scottyboy
12-23-2012, 08:12 PM
Round 1: Ziggy
Round 2: Khaseem
Round 3: CB
Round 4: OG

boom.

OSUGiants17
12-23-2012, 08:18 PM
While I would love Ansah, if we miss the playoffs or even worse lose next week, we could wind up with someone even better.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-24-2012, 08:35 AM
I wanted us to be wrong so badly. But this years team just didn't pass the eyeball-test in my pretty uneducated opinion. Last year, after the Packers loss in the regular season, I could see the fire and belief in the players eyes. This year i've for the most part just seen lethargy and smugness.

Like they're satisfied with winning last year, and this year isn't that important, because there's no jobs that are in danger. That's why I think the coaching staff and players should be shaken up in a big way after the season. Show them that they will be held accountable for not doing their jobs with any kind of consistency.

I saw it in the Cincy game. That's when I soured on our team's play. I saw an offense stall out and frankly have tendencies and show signs I haven't seen in this system. Wrs with opposing Cbs in their hip pocket on our usual routes as defined by curl, hitch, square in or out. No matter what our guys couldn't get room to make a play.

Our defensive side of the ball I have zero confidence in. So they proved to be useless. Inconsistent group led by a DC who should not have gotten the job. That SB run saved his job. I remember Paul Dittino, after the SB saying to Fewell that was he nervous or felt pressure about his job.

But I just didn't feel good about this team. The defensive side of the ball is useless and once the offense stalled, I knew we were in trouble.

For a HOF game, Coughlin gets a black mark on his resume for this constant end of the year slides. Someone in next year's training camp should ask him how he combats next years slide. Year after year, something has to be done.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2012, 12:04 PM
The bottom line is this: This team had a super bowl hang over. They just didn't have the intensity this year. A combination of complacency, injuries, and just an overall lack of talent, and age hit this team all at the same time. This wasn't our year. Don't deserve to make the playoffs, and from the body language and quotes from the players, you can tell that they mailed it in anyway. It's over for this season.

Moving forward, we're going to have a lot of roster turnover. I've said it all season long, we're gonna see some big changes on this team starting this offseason and rightfully so, it's time to get some new blood in here. This group had a good 5 year run together, but in the NFL 5 years is a long time. The core needs to be blown up and we need to start over on many levels.

The offense is fine from a player standpoint, outside the OL. I think we're good at WR moving forward with Nicks and Cruz, and hopefully Randle will develop and learn the playbook. I think we should re-sign Bennett. I think Wilson will get his chance next year, and Andre Brown should be here as well. I'd like to see a Brown/Wilson duo at RB moving forward. I think Beatty should get franchised, let's see him do it 2 years in a row, but he gives us the opportunity to not worry about LT in the draft, Baas played well, we're good at C, we need Gs and a RT. So those are my offensive priorities in the draft: G, RT.

Coaching wise, I think the playbook needs to change a little. I have no worries here, I think Gilbride will adjust. I wouldn't mind seeing us get away from a 3 WR offense and maybe try to use more 2 TE sets. I still have TE on the board if a good player is available.

On defense, we need a complete overhaul. Keep JPP, KP, Rolle, Kiwi, JWILL, Prince, everyone else from the core can pretty much go. Keep Joseph for the right price, set a limit and do not exceed that price no matter what, he's just a 2 down run stuffer I'm not concerned about him at all. Boley is old, let him go, Canty is expensive, let him go if he doesn't restructure, let go of Tuck, let Osi walk, Corey is done, it's time to rebuild the defense.

I think Hosely can be a decent slot CB, but we desperately need another CB. I think we're fine at S with KP and Rolle, with Will Hill behind them. Brown is a FA and he will walk. I know you guys like Brown a lot, as do I, but to be fair, he makes ALOT of mistakes that you don't see on TV. Don't let the INT #s fool you, he's not that good. Not worth re-signing.

We need a whole new LB core. Keep JWILL, everyone else can go.

We desperately need DTs. We need 2 DTs at least. DE is a need as well. We need a guy opposite of JPP.

So we need 1 DE, 2 DTs, 2 LBs, a CB on defense. That's a lot.

So we have a lot of cleaning up to do with this roster.

scottyboy
12-24-2012, 12:06 PM
no brown sucks and is gonna get a big payday because of his turnovers. let him go, easily.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2012, 12:14 PM
As for DC, I can only hope that Fewell gets fired. If he gets lit up vs the Eagles, that might do him in. If we win, he might get 1 more year to my dismay.

Guys I'd like to see replace him? Well it's hard to say. There are a lot of great positional coaches who we don't know about who would do great that we'd overlook.

Some names that come to my mind:

Mike Pettine - DC of the Jets. He wants out of NYJ, didn't extend his contract. Rex's scheme is the perfect scheme in my mind. If I can have the Giants run any scheme in particular, THIS is the scheme. Now I don't know how much input Pettine truly had with the Jets defense, but if he did, and he can bring that here, he's #1 on my wish list. The Jets ran a 3-4 on paper, but they were a hybrid defense. They ran a lot of Bear formations, a lot of 46, some 4-3. I believe he'd adjust his formations to reflect the talent we have on our defense.


Lovie Smith: If he gets fired from the Bears, I wouldn't mind grabbing him as DC. The guy is one hell of a DC. Yes, he runs Cover 2 which I despise, but let's be real, it's pretty obvious Coughlin loves Cover 2 himself bc all of his DCs outside of Spags were Cover 2 DCs, plus Lovie is arguably the best Cover 2 DC in the league. He runs a good amount of man coverage anyway.

Gus Bradley: Seattle's DC. I love the scheme Seattle runs. If he can bring that physicality to the Giants, I'm all for it.

Steve Spagnuolo: My first choice but an unrealistic possibility bc I don't see him leaving NO this year.

Rosebud
12-24-2012, 12:26 PM
My concern with hiring a new DC is that I frankly don't trust Coughlin not to hire a Lewis or Sheridan. Fewell's mediocre, especially when he doesn't trust the secondary, but he's not Lewis or Sheridan. I'd love to have another spags type, but I just don't think we'd hire a guy like that if we did replace Fewell.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2012, 12:32 PM
You can't approach the situation like that. You don't keep a turd bc you're afraid you might get a smellier turd as a replacement.

Forenci
12-24-2012, 01:23 PM
One guy I haven't heard too much about, but am really interested in his Jerry Gray, the Tennessee defensive coordinator. I've seen a few games and he LOVES to play aggressive defense. He sends a lot of pressure from all over the place. The Titans have been pretty good on defense despite really not having a ton of talent.

I don't know much about him, but I'm very interested in him.

gpngc
12-24-2012, 01:44 PM
As for DC, I can only hope that Fewell gets fired. If he gets lit up vs the Eagles, that might do him in. If we win, he might get 1 more year to my dismay.

Guys I'd like to see replace him? Well it's hard to say. There are a lot of great positional coaches who we don't know about who would do great that we'd overlook.

Some names that come to my mind:

Mike Pettine - DC of the Jets. He wants out of NYJ, didn't extend his contract. Rex's scheme is the perfect scheme in my mind. If I can have the Giants run any scheme in particular, THIS is the scheme. Now I don't know how much input Pettine truly had with the Jets defense, but if he did, and he can bring that here, he's #1 on my wish list. The Jets ran a 3-4 on paper, but they were a hybrid defense. They ran a lot of Bear formations, a lot of 46, some 4-3. I believe he'd adjust his formations to reflect the talent we have on our defense.


Lovie Smith: If he gets fired from the Bears, I wouldn't mind grabbing him as DC. The guy is one hell of a DC. Yes, he runs Cover 2 which I despise, but let's be real, it's pretty obvious Coughlin loves Cover 2 himself bc all of his DCs outside of Spags were Cover 2 DCs, plus Lovie is arguably the best Cover 2 DC in the league. He runs a good amount of man coverage anyway.

Gus Bradley: Seattle's DC. I love the scheme Seattle runs. If he can bring that physicality to the Giants, I'm all for it.

Steve Spagnuolo: My first choice but an unrealistic possibility bc I don't see him leaving NO this year.

Gus Bradley never blitzes. You guys would hate him in no time for only playing "prevent."

It only works because no one can throw on Seattle's secondary regardless of how long they need to cover for. They are that good.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2012, 01:45 PM
I love Miami's defensive coordinator as well. The problem is, these guys already have jobs. They'd have to leave to get out of a shadow, or their coach has to get fired for them to be a possibility.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2012, 01:49 PM
Gus Bradley never blitzes. You guys would hate him in no time for only playing "prevent."

It only works because no one can throw on Seattle's secondary regardless of how long they need to cover for. They are that good.

I like how you guys attack gaps. And I love the physicality the secondary plays with. Maybe that is not coached, maybe that's just the players being good players, and if that's the case then my opinion of him could change, but I love the fronts you guys use. It's a good hybrid.

But what I really like about your defense is the talent, the tackling, and the physicality and range of the secondary. So maybe I'm falling in love with the talent and giving the DC too much credit for it. I could be guilty of that.

I just love Seattle's defense. It's my favorite defense in the league for my money. Great DL, great LB core, the best secondary in the league. It's just a great defense.

gpngc
12-24-2012, 01:49 PM
It's the adderall.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2012, 02:04 PM
If Rex Ryan gets fired by some miracle, I'd be ALL over that. Ryan is a tremendous DC.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2012, 02:23 PM
So I didn't get to see the game last night so I DVR'd it and I'm watching it now.

Wow.

The lack of effort is astounding. They didn't even try. The attempts on tackling were pathetic. The body language of the whole team is alarming. The OL is getting destroyed.

This was just a bad game. And Fewell blitzed. He blitzed plenty. But the blitzes were very poorly disguised, but more troubling was players who blitzed didn't blitz hard. I saw a couple of jogs out there on the blitz. Wth?

The lack of effort is alarming. They looked like they didn't want to be there and just want the season to end.

Big_Pete
12-24-2012, 03:52 PM
Osi has come out with some interesting comments

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/12/osi_umenyiora_says_theres_a_hi.html

among the hightlights are


"Where are they going to make the changes is the question," Umenyiora said. "There is no individual, there is no aspect of the team this year that stood out. People want to just talk about the pass rush. OK, well maybe we didnít get 50 sacks like we did last year, but was the offense playing well? Was the special teams playing (well)? Like where? There was nowhere that was up to par, that was up to the standard that we set last year. So if they're going to be making changes, it has to be wholesale changes, it has to be changes for everybody, because nobody played above average this year."


None of us are surprised, this is on the money, but players don't usually come out and say it.

Big_Pete
12-24-2012, 03:56 PM
As for DC, I can only hope that Fewell gets fired. If he gets lit up vs the Eagles, that might do him in. If we win, he might get 1 more year to my dismay.

Guys I'd like to see replace him? Well it's hard to say. There are a lot of great positional coaches who we don't know about who would do great that we'd overlook.

Some names that come to my mind:

Mike Pettine - DC of the Jets. He wants out of NYJ, didn't extend his contract. Rex's scheme is the perfect scheme in my mind. If I can have the Giants run any scheme in particular, THIS is the scheme. Now I don't know how much input Pettine truly had with the Jets defense, but if he did, and he can bring that here, he's #1 on my wish list. The Jets ran a 3-4 on paper, but they were a hybrid defense. They ran a lot of Bear formations, a lot of 46, some 4-3. I believe he'd adjust his formations to reflect the talent we have on our defense.


Lovie Smith: If he gets fired from the Bears, I wouldn't mind grabbing him as DC. The guy is one hell of a DC. Yes, he runs Cover 2 which I despise, but let's be real, it's pretty obvious Coughlin loves Cover 2 himself bc all of his DCs outside of Spags were Cover 2 DCs, plus Lovie is arguably the best Cover 2 DC in the league. He runs a good amount of man coverage anyway.

Gus Bradley: Seattle's DC. I love the scheme Seattle runs. If he can bring that physicality to the Giants, I'm all for it.

Steve Spagnuolo: My first choice but an unrealistic possibility bc I don't see him leaving NO this year.

Thanks BBD, nice analysis

What are your thoughts on Dick Jauron?

Big_Pete
12-24-2012, 04:01 PM
I like how you guys attack gaps. And I love the physicality the secondary plays with. Maybe that is not coached, maybe that's just the players being good players, and if that's the case then my opinion of him could change, but I love the fronts you guys use. It's a good hybrid.

But what I really like about your defense is the talent, the tackling, and the physicality and range of the secondary. So maybe I'm falling in love with the talent and giving the DC too much credit for it. I could be guilty of that.

I just love Seattle's defense. It's my favorite defense in the league for my money. Great DL, great LB core, the best secondary in the league. It's just a great defense.

What about Seattle's LB coach Ken Norton Jr as a DC option?

Rosebud
12-24-2012, 04:21 PM
Jauron would be even worse than Fewell. At least Fewell has shown he'll blitz if he has complete confidence in his secondary, which is much more aggressive than Jauron.

I'd be all for an upgrade and the organization can't have this mentality, but as a fan, I don't trust them to bring in a better DC unless somehow spags is available, I could see the team bringing him back, but I just can't see them going out and finding a creative and aggressive guy that can really get the most of this defense.

OSUGiants17
12-24-2012, 05:15 PM
No chance we can steal a DC from another team. Position coaches, college coaches, retired coaches and fired coaches are our only options. I've said it before, Will Muschamp would be great but sadly is so unlikely. I love his aggressive play calling. I just can't see him leaving for a coordinator job though, and if he did he would be gone in a year or two as a head coach.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2012, 07:17 PM
Not a fan of Jauron. He's another Cover 2 guy, and if we're going Cover 2, the only Cover 2 guy I'd want to entertain is Lovie Smith.

Forenci
12-24-2012, 10:47 PM
If Rex Ryan gets fired by some miracle, I'd be ALL over that. Ryan is a tremendous DC.

Coughlin wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. He's a great defensive coach but the circus that comes with him is insane.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-25-2012, 10:23 AM
I don't believe in the Hang over BS. There is no hang over. Other explainable components or factors were reasons why. From coaching, to injuries, to flat our bad play. Hang over, lol, like some kind of magic gripped this team's performance. Why not blame it on the BBI trophy? That's not to BBD, but in general, this hang over excuse keeps popping up. I don't buy that for second. Our inept play is explainable.

No home Cruz 99 yard homers. No more home run balls for this year after that Bucs game where Nicks and Cruz were going yard. As the season went on this stupid offense had issues just getting on base. Forget HR. Those homers covered up some weaknesses we have. For us our offense is BOOM or BUST. I have said that in the past, but maybe we need to get away from those two extremes. Somewhere in the middle might be nice. If we are not going yard, this year we got exposed. Getting a freaking 3rd down last game was hard enough for this offense.

They'd go 3 and out And the defense would come on the field and get bent over! No there is no hang over or BBI curse. These are all explainable factors which caused this to happen.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-25-2012, 10:39 AM
Oh, Merry Xmas to everyone! Hope everyone is safe and got good stuff from Santa!

Forenci
12-25-2012, 11:57 AM
Yes! Merry Christmas to all the awesome Giants fans on this board. It does put things in perspective, oddly enough, after we lost one of our fellow DC posters but you guys are awesome.

For all the bickering, fighting and debating we do you guys are still awesome. Even with all the joking around I do with GF and Scotty being Rutgers fans I love you all.

bigbluedefense
12-26-2012, 08:39 AM
What happened? Who did we lose?

Forenci
12-26-2012, 10:14 AM
What happened? Who did we lose?

Themaninblack.

bigbluedefense
12-26-2012, 12:29 PM
Themaninblack.

Yeah I saw it when I went to the offtopic section. Sad. RIP.

Giantsfan1080
12-26-2012, 01:23 PM
Wow just saw this. Terrible news.

Damix
12-26-2012, 01:42 PM
As for DC, I can only hope that Fewell gets fired. If he gets lit up vs the Eagles, that might do him in. If we win, he might get 1 more year to my dismay.

It is pathetic that we have to think like that. Coughlin and the front office are way to loyal to these coordinators. The Ravens are a division winner and fired their coordinator midseason, the front office shouldn't be so blind.

Big_Pete
12-26-2012, 10:11 PM
It looks like Martellus Bennett wants to return next season and wants his brother here too.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/26/martellus-bennett-wants-to-stay-with-giants-preferably-with-his-brother-joining-team/

Giantsfan1080
12-27-2012, 09:06 AM
Bennett coming back is important. We need some continuity on offense. He'll be somewhat cheap and has shown he's a solid all around TE.

bigbluedefense
12-27-2012, 11:53 AM
I want Bennett back. Bring back Bennett, Nicks and Cruz. Franchise Beatty. The whole offense can stay basically, just get a RT, and 2 OGs, rework the playbook and we'll be fine on offense.

Giantsfan1080
12-27-2012, 01:40 PM
Don't want Boothe back?

Giantsfan1080
12-27-2012, 01:47 PM
And it begins:

CB Corey Webster will not be back on the Giants in 2013 unless he takes a "very" significant pay cut according to NY Dailynews #nyg #giants

NY+Giants=NYG
12-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Webster and Tuck should too. Osi probably leaves, and let's see what we do with KP. This year and the following ones will be key with how we shape the team, draft, and add in FA. I think we have to be smart with our money.

Offense I went from very confident in, be it some things that annoy me, to skeptical. Defensively, I have ZERO faith in that sheet show.

Forenci
12-27-2012, 01:50 PM
I think Boothe is a solid stop gap if we need to. With all the other positions we need to re-sign and all the defense we need to draft I wouldn't mind keeping him around another year and wait to address the position after the next season.

Giantsfan1080
12-27-2012, 01:56 PM
Agree with you on Boothe Forenci. I'd let Osi walk, keep Tuck as the 3rd/4th DE and have JPP and Kiwi start on the line. I'd go best available defensive position draft but hoping for DL or CB.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-27-2012, 01:59 PM
Boothe can be a stop gap, but if we have a chance to draft an OG or sign a better one than I hope we do. I don't want to settle for stop gaps if someone better is there.

Big_Pete
12-27-2012, 03:30 PM
If we cut both Tuck and Osi, I wouldn't mind us bringing in Michael Bennett as a vet DE option, particularly if we can get him a little cheaper

Big_Pete
12-27-2012, 03:33 PM
Boothe can be a stop gap, but if we have a chance to draft an OG or sign a better one than I hope we do. I don't want to settle for stop gaps if someone better is there.

Boothe isn't going to be cheap, I'd rather spend a little more for a good guard such as Andy Levitre (Buffalo).

If we could get Levitre and resign Beatty, the left side of our line is set for some time.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-27-2012, 07:08 PM
Boothe isn't going to be cheap, I'd rather spend a little more for a good guard such as Andy Levitre (Buffalo).

If we could get Levitre and resign Beatty, the left side of our line is set for some time.

I'd rather draft OL. I think it's time to hit the OL and not just the mid round pick BBD gives me every year. That's the big issue. Few of those guys stick. Koets, Whimper, and Petrus are all gone! Brewer we are not sure of.

I really hope we don't waste mid round developmental guys on the OL. It seems more often than naught we misfire on that. If that position is BPA when we draft give me OL.

scottyboy
12-27-2012, 07:37 PM
dammit because i still really love C-Web

bigbluedefense
12-28-2012, 08:11 AM
I'd sign Boothe to backup money. I want to replace both of our OGs, so if we can upgrade I'd prefer that. Especially since Beatty isn't a great run blocker, having a pulling G who can make up for him will definitely help our run game.

I prefer a defender early in the draft, I want to spend our first 2 draft picks on defense, but if OG or RT is bpa by a good margin, then I'm ok with that.

bigbluedefense
12-28-2012, 08:39 AM
I want to see us clean house on defense. No one is afraid of job security, and that's part of the problem. We need to shake things up a little and change the culture with some new blood.

I think Kenny is a must re-sign. Our secondary is 10 billion times better when he's back there. That is obvious now. He won't be an expensive re-sign bc of his injury history, I think this should be the only priority re-sign on defense.

Joseph, only for the right price. Sorry, but 2 down run stuffers who offer no pass rush at all aren't a priority to me, even with our severe lack of depth at DT. You don't sign someone to a bad contract just bc you feel you have to. Sign him to the right deal, or let him walk.

This is a transition year. We're gonna have some holes at the start of the season, we won't be able to address everything. So it's important we keep the front 4 on defense at a high level to mask some other deficiencies, and we address the OL on offense.

I think we take care of the trenches first, ideally, unless bpa dictates otherwise.

Giantsfan1080
12-28-2012, 08:55 AM
Is Fewell's contract up at the end of this year?

NY+Giants=NYG
12-28-2012, 09:42 AM
Is Fewell's contract up at the end of this year?

Oh I hope so if we don't fire him, which I doubt. Sadly, that fool will be back. KP knee is an issue. That knee they said is degenerative, so I am not sure I want to extend the guy if that knee is going to get progressively worse. Can we sign him for cheap? And it will have to be especially if he going to miss games with that knee.

Giantsfan1080
12-28-2012, 10:42 AM
It sounds like this is indeed Fewell's last season under his contract. If that's the case we don't even have to fire him we can just let him walk.

Rosebud
12-28-2012, 10:42 AM
Boothe isn't going to be cheap, I'd rather spend a little more for a good guard such as Andy Levitre (Buffalo).

If we could get Levitre and resign Beatty, the left side of our line is set for some time.

I have a tough time seeing Buffalo let Andy go, but if we could get him that'd be glorious.

Forenci
12-28-2012, 12:24 PM
I mean, if there isn't a good defensive player on the board or there happens to be a really good O-Line player who falls in the draft I have no problem if we draft them.

I'd prefer to go defense early and often, but obviously if there is a BPA who fits a relative need I have no problems going that route too.

If Boothe can be retained relatively cheaply, I have no issues with him being a starter for a year or two. If we do address it in the draft, he'll make a great back up.

Jughead10
12-28-2012, 01:56 PM
Carrying this over from a conversation on BBI, but do you ever think Coughlin would consider a new DC who would want to play 3-4? If there was ever a year to switch defenses it would be going into next year. It would help if we had a strong secondary to help make the transition smoother, but we're not really good anywhere on defense right now. And now that I got BBD hard, I'll slowly walk away.

Giantsfan1080
12-28-2012, 01:59 PM
Our best defensive player would be limited in a 3-4. Keep the 4-3. The base defense also doesn't really matter as much now anyway because every team gives multiple looks. The proliferation of the passing game in the NFL also takes LB's off the field more and more for DB's. In the end I'd keep the 4-3.

Jughead10
12-28-2012, 02:02 PM
Our best defensive player would be limited in a 3-4. Keep the 4-3. The base defense also doesn't really matter as much now anyway because every team gives multiple looks. The proliferation of the passing game in the NFL also takes LB's off the field more and more for DB's. In the end I'd keep the 4-3.

I'm assuming you are speaking about JPP. Sadly our best defensive play this year has been Stevie Brown. Genreal consensus to me is that everyone thinks JPP needs to cut weight again. If he did that I think he could be a 3-4 outside backer. He'd have to play in space a little more but he's certainly athletic enough.

Everyone says we can't do it because we don't have the linebackers. Well we don't have the linebackers for what we are doing now either. A switch to a 3-4 might help Kiwi. A little less to do coverage wise and a little more pure rushing. Tuck might hold up his worth a little more a 3-4 DE not asked to get to the QB which he isn't doing anyway.

The one guy who it would totally make useless is Williams.

Giantsfan1080
12-28-2012, 02:12 PM
Stevie Brown has gotten a good deal of TO's this year but he hasn't really been all that good.

JPP is clearly the player we have to build our future defensive front around. It's dumb as hell to stick him in a 3-4 defense. LB's aren't as important in today's game anyway so I want to limit that.

Big_Pete
12-28-2012, 03:19 PM
Offensively I think we are in fairly good shape, ideally we need to resign some skill positions and overhaul the OL.

Defensively we need a major overhaul. Firstly, I'd like to see us keep the 4-3 but completely change the schemes with a new DC. If I had my choice, I think I'd prefer Ron Rivera (if he gets the axe in Carolina), the guy has experience with quite a lot of systems (and currently using the 4-3 Fox implemented).

NY+Giants=NYG
12-28-2012, 03:21 PM
I am not sure I want to build around one player. If a good DC comes and he is creative, then I'd make the change. I know we won 2 SB, but 5th DC in a 43 system is very frustrating. I mean if we can find an aggressive 43 DC, then hire him. But I can't stand these let's put all our eggs in the pass rush basket and pray for the best. Get someone creative in his blitz packages. Mix up with show in tell & bait and blast ways of disguising blitzes.

If possible stick to a 43, then if a good to great DC wants to change the system then fine.

Forenci
12-28-2012, 05:56 PM
Eh, just makes more sense to stick with the 3-4. As BBD said, whether you use 4-3 or 3-4 doesn't really matter. It's all about the players you do have and how you utilize them.

I truly believe it's easier to draft for the 4-3 anyway. It's harder to find that massive nose tackle who can be productive. It can be very difficult to find the tweener DE's who are able to covert to the 3-4 OLB. Then you need big and stout ILB's which is becoming harder to find too. Then you need really big DE's too which can also be difficult as they typically have to make a conversion too.

And for the record, we've had more guys run a cover 2 defense than 4-3 defense, NYG. That's the main issue. Coughlin clearly prefers cover 2 guys. The one legitimate 4-3 defense we've used was with Spags and that was superb.

scottyboy
12-28-2012, 06:05 PM
we need to draft khaseem. that is all

NY+Giants=NYG
12-28-2012, 06:07 PM
This Rutgers offense is painful to watch! Great defense and only 10 freaking nothing. Come on now!

NY+Giants=NYG
12-28-2012, 07:21 PM
Nova! You are sooo bad! This offense is so pathetic! 10 points only and now the game is tied. Stupid team is in a dog fight now.

OSUGiants17
12-29-2012, 12:14 PM
we need to draft khaseem. that is all

I want him soooo bad. Him and JWill opposite each other would be straight sex

NY+Giants=NYG
12-29-2012, 04:13 PM
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=461853

This is a good thread.

Big_Pete
12-29-2012, 04:28 PM
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=461853

This is a good thread.

Nice list thanks NYG

Checking out Terrell Thomas' contract (from rotoworld)


3/13/2012: Signed a four-year, $17.4 million contract. The deal contains $11 million guaranteed, including a $1 million signing bonus. Another $11 million is available through incentives based on playing time and interceptions. 2012: $1 million, 2013: $750,000 (+ $6 million option bonus + $1.5 million roster bonus), 2014: $3.8 million, 2015: $4.75 million, 2016: Free Agent


So it looks like Terrell Thomas has a $6 million option bonus and $1.5 million roster bonus this offseason.

Presumably the bonuses are factored into the cap, so does this mean if we let Terrell go we gain $8.25 million in cap room ($6 million option bonus + $1.5 million roster bonus + $750k base salary)?

bigbluedefense
12-29-2012, 06:20 PM
I would be open to a 3-4 defense but what's limiting our ability to switch is the fact that JPP is strictly a 4-3 DE. You don't switch schemes on a guy like that. He's gonna be a stud once he drops 10 lbs again, and plays his natural RE position. I'm not changing the scheme just to change it. There are plenty of good coordinators who run a 4-3.

As for blitz packages, it doesn't matter whether you run a 4-3 or 3-4, I can cook up the same blitz for both fronts, disguise them the same exact way, and confuse qbs the same exact way. The formation doesn't mean ****. It's just a formation. How you attack gaps with your blitz packages does not depend on the formation, you can attack gaps the same way in a 4-3 and 3-4.

Most 3-4 defenses nowadays are 1 gap anyway, which are essentially 4-3 defenses with 1 DLmen standing up. It's all the same ****. We just need an aggressive coordinator who plays man coverage and brings pressure 40% of the time.

I like Mike Pettine for this role. He would run the scheme I would like. Spags is another. We have options. There are plenty of guys out there.

I want a coordinator who emphasizes fundamentals like tackling, runs a pressure based scheme, and I want us to go out and retool the defense with guys who have exceptional tackling skills. Because I feel that good tacklers in college translate those skills to the NFL. Tackling isn't really taught in the NFL so those skills have to translate from the college level for the most part.

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 11:12 AM
You have to root for a lot of coaches to get fired on Black Monday for 2 reasons:

1. It opens up more opportunities for Perry Fewell to get a HC gig somewhere so we can move on from him.

2. It opens up more candidates who can potentially replace Fewell. Remember, while many of these HCs were poor, they also were very good coordinators.

If we ever lose Kevin Gilbride for whatever reason, Chan Gailey would be #1 on my list to replace him bc he runs a lot of the same Run N Shoot concepts that Gilbride runs.

OSUGiants17
12-30-2012, 11:35 AM
Chan Gailey would be an awesome OC here, but I don't see Killdrive leaving unless we have an abismal performance today on offense. As for Perry, his contract is up and I see no reason to bring him back if we see someone else out there that we like more. Hopefully at least one of them, if not both, are gone next year

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 11:37 AM
Oh I know, we'll never let go of Gilbride, nor should we. But if he decides to become a college HC or whatever, then Gailey would be my ideal replacement. Just throwing it out there. I fully expect Gilbride to be back next year.

Gilbride is a good OC. He's not a problem on our team. It's Fewell.

OSUGiants17
12-30-2012, 12:44 PM
Gilbride isn't bad, he just needs to mix things up a little more. I just feel like sometimes our play calling is too predictable

scottyboy
12-30-2012, 12:58 PM
i mean, our O has talent. an OL or 2 added in the offseason would be cool but we've got the skill position guys. this offseason has to be just completely re-working the D. I wanna keep KP to have him, rolle and prince back there which is nice. front 7 barring JPP needs an overhaul

OSUGiants17
12-30-2012, 01:43 PM
i mean, our O has talent. an OL or 2 added in the offseason would be cool but we've got the skill position guys. this offseason has to be just completely re-working the D. I wanna keep KP to have him, rolle and prince back there which is nice. front 7 barring JPP and JWill needs an overhaul

FTFY, but yea I agree and I think most other fans do too. Our offense is fine aside from re-tooling(not rebuilding) on the OL and then a complete overhaul on the D aside from about 5-6 players.

scottyboy
12-30-2012, 01:49 PM
Ziggy and Khaseem and Short from Purdue. That's what I want. Short's stock is falling.

Sadly, they may not be there for us. Hell, Khaseem and Ziggy may not be there round 1 for us sadly

scottyboy
12-30-2012, 02:09 PM
we also need to keep chase blackburn because he's awesome

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 02:10 PM
Khaseem won't be a first round pick. He'll be a 2nd rounder at earliest.

scottyboy
12-30-2012, 02:13 PM
Khaseem won't be a first round pick. He'll be a 2nd rounder at earliest.

you say that now. He's a 2nd rounder now, just wait til the combine. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go round 1, at all.

Also, JPP rushing on the inside shows how bad tuck is now and it makes me sad

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 02:14 PM
you say that now. He's a 2nd rounder now, just wait til the combine. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go round 1, at all.

Also, JPP rushing on the inside shows how bad tuck is now and it makes me sad

He won't go round 1 bc the value of a 4-3 WILL typically doesn't warrant a 1st round pick. He's an undersized 4-3 WILL. That eliminates a lot of teams to begin with, plus the fact that it is not a position that you bypass CBs, DL or OL or even WR for, you won't see him go in the 1st.

Early 2nd is his ceiling.

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 02:15 PM
Yeah Tuck is done. There was an article that came out yesterday that even said that Tuck knows he's most likely done as a Giant after this season.

scottyboy
12-30-2012, 02:17 PM
whatever, let greene fall to us in the 2nd. i can't think of anything more perfect. even forenci can't slander him or that fit

Forenci
12-30-2012, 03:35 PM
Greene is fine but you mentioning him every single post is going to get annoying super quick.

OSUGiants17
12-30-2012, 03:36 PM
you say that now. He's a 2nd rounder now, just wait til the combine. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go round 1, at all.

Also, JPP rushing on the inside shows how bad tuck is now and it makes me sad

He is a fringe 1st round talent and there simply isn't a need for him scotty, he is a 2nd rounder. Let us scoop him up round 2 and get the best DE or CB available round 1. BTW, we're gonna dominate that forum-mock

OSUGiants17
12-30-2012, 03:37 PM
Yeah Tuck is done. There was an article that came out yesterday that even said that Tuck knows he's most likely done as a Giant after this season.

:( If we could get him cheap I would love him to be our rotational DE and leader.

Big_Pete
12-30-2012, 04:15 PM
I like Khaseem Greene in the second, but this is a talented an deep LB class this year, we can probably get a potential starter in the third round.

Lets just see how the draft process unfolds and get the best value guys at our need positions.

scottyboy
12-30-2012, 04:34 PM
Greene is fine but you mentioning him every single post is going to get annoying super quick.

as if 99.9% of my posts aren't annoying as is? I'm slacking.

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 07:08 PM
Well, we could have anywhere from the 18th to the 20th pick in the draft. I think at that point in the draft, I don't see an elite DE talent falling to that spot, so I think realistically we're looking at BPA at the following positions:

OG
OT
DT
CB
LB

I think DE will have talent at 20, but I'm not sure if it will be the type of DEs we like. Ansah had NYG written all over him, but he's not gonna last that long, so I wouldn't mind at all if BPA at 20 is a OG or OT.

I don't think we should completely remove OT from the board. As well as Beatty has played, if a franchise LT is available at 20, there's no crime in moving Beatty to RT and drafting someone to play LT.

OSUGiants17
12-30-2012, 07:09 PM
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/16615/1059705-810148_180px_dk_rambi_thumb_large.jpg
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1935601/hynoski2.gif
http://media.zenfs.com/en_US/Sports/AP_NFL/201212301456537835689-p2.jpg
http://gifsection.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/hynoski-rhino-12-29-12.gif


so damn sexy

LTgiants
12-30-2012, 07:11 PM
Hynosaurus ftw!!

Also nice avy I wonder where you got the idea lol.

OSUGiants17
12-30-2012, 07:12 PM
Hynosaurus ftw!!

Also nice avy I wonder where you got the idea lol.

the second he did it I asked for a gif of it to make it my avatar, don't start with me lol

Rosebud
12-30-2012, 07:15 PM
Well, we could have anywhere from the 18th to the 20th pick in the draft. I think at that point in the draft, I don't see an elite DE talent falling to that spot, so I think realistically we're looking at BPA at the following positions:

OG
OT
DT
CB
LB

I think DE will have talent at 20, but I'm not sure if it will be the type of DEs we like. Ansah had NYG written all over him, but he's not gonna last that long, so I wouldn't mind at all if BPA at 20 is a OG or OT.

I don't think we should completely remove OT from the board. As well as Beatty has played, if a franchise LT is available at 20, there's no crime in moving Beatty to RT and drafting someone to play LT.

Eh, if JPP fell to us at 15 I wouldn't be surprised to see Ansah fall to 18-20 in a draft much deeper along the DL.

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 07:20 PM
Eh, if JPP fell to us at 15 I wouldn't be surprised to see Ansah fall to 18-20 in a draft much deeper along the DL.

JPP set the trend though. Typically when a clone of a previously drafted player is drafted, he goes higher than that original pick.

Ansah won't last past 15. He'll get compared to JPP all offseason and he'll go in the top 10 bc of JPP's success.

OSUGiants17
12-30-2012, 07:45 PM
Moore, Werner, Jordan, Ansah, Okafor, Montgomery, Mingo. No way they all go by pick 20, we can easily get a DE worthy of a top 15 pick due to how top heavy this DE class is.

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 07:55 PM
Keep in mind what kind of DEs we like though. We love long limbed athletic DEs with size. Those guys aren't always there at 20.

Forenci
12-30-2012, 08:27 PM
And non-stop motor guys too. I think that's a given. To me, that's arguably one of the most important aspects to a DE. Look at Tuck when he doesn't try. It just sucks and hurts the team. Guys who are relentless tend to get to the quarterback a ton.

I feel like 80% of the guys who have work ethic or motor issues fail at the position in the NFL. Granted, you also need length, strength, athleticism, etc. too but effort and motor are huge.

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 08:38 PM
And non-stop motor guys too. I think that's a given. To me, that's arguably one of the most important aspects to a DE. Look at Tuck when he doesn't try. It just sucks and hurts the team. Guys who are relentless tend to get to the quarterback a ton.

I feel like 80% of the guys who have work ethic or motor issues fail at the position in the NFL. Granted, you also need length, strength, athleticism, etc. too but effort and motor are huge.

I feel that production at the college level at DE is extremely overrated. I want an athlete. Athletes make the best pass rushers in the NFL, I can teach technique but you can't teach length, strength and speed. Motor and athleticism. If he has a motor and athleticism he passes the test for me.

Now if he was a 4 year starter who has both qualities but for some reason didn't translate that to sacks, then I'd be concerned. But raw, athletic strong long fast DEs with a great motor, I'll take those guys any day.

Speaking of which, what's up with this Dion Jordan guy? Does he fit the bill? I have a lot of scouting yet to do. I haven't looked at anyone this year.

Giantsfan1080
12-30-2012, 08:42 PM
Well bittersweet season ending. Glad we got to talk football for the year again. Let's rinse and repeat.

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 08:43 PM
I think we all understood that last year's success wasn't realistic to expect this year, especially when we all discussed the imminent roster turnover that was coming this offseason.

It's an exciting time, we're gonna see a lot of change this offseason.

Giantsfan1080
12-30-2012, 08:45 PM
I think we all understood that last year's success wasn't realistic to expect this year, especially when we all discussed the imminent roster turnover that was coming this offseason.

It's an exciting time, we're gonna see a lot of change this offseason.

The funny thing is we did the exact same thing as last year to the T. Last year we won the SB, this year no playoffs. Same start, same middle, totally different ending.

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 08:47 PM
The funny thing is we did the exact same thing as last year to the T. Last year we won the SB, this year no playoffs. Same start, same middle, totally different ending.

Luck is an unfaithful mistress.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-30-2012, 09:16 PM
The offense looked good! We added new concepts which I loved. Throwing to the Fb and RB! Wow, talk about doing something different. Wheel to Bradshaw. Throw to Wilson and Hyno! Stupid red zone woes, and last game we decide to bust open new concepts. LOL.

And how about that balls to the wall mentality! No BS bush league running plays or anything like that. For one game we played like the Saints or anything other team does. We pressed the foot down on the pedal and stuck to it!

So we have the potential to do, but I want this trapped in a bottle and used. This was nice! I liked the red zone stuff, and I like that aggressive mentality.

Amazing we do this on the last game and don't make the playoffs. Do this next year! This team should never stall out the way we do. Make Eli the key and watch what happens.

Add new concepts and use it! use Wilson too!

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 09:17 PM
Calm down. The Eagles clearly quit on that game.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-30-2012, 09:20 PM
Not my issue. That's their issue and will be rectified. All I care is what our fools do. And we did good things for once. The plays called were good How many times do you see the 2nd and 3rd back thrown to like that? It was nice seeing the mix of Bradshaw and Wilson back and forth like that.

The irony is too little too late as the BBI head line. Stupid fools needs to do that throughout the season.

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 09:22 PM
We scored the 2nd most points in team history this year. Offense wasn't the problem, it was our defense.

We just need 2 OLmen and we'll be fine offensively. Re-sign Cruz and Nicks, and Bennett, draft 2 OLmen and we'll be fine. Change concepts in the playbook to counter the adjustments made to our scheme.

Defensively we need a whole new front 7 outside of JPP and 1 or 2 more CBs.

Giantsfan1080
12-30-2012, 09:22 PM
We are an enigma though.

Big_Pete
12-30-2012, 09:27 PM
JPP set the trend though. Typically when a clone of a previously drafted player is drafted, he goes higher than that original pick.

Ansah won't last past 15. He'll get compared to JPP all offseason and he'll go in the top 10 bc of JPP's success.

The difference is this year is loaded with pass rushers. Also a team picking Ansah will need to give him time to develop which isn't the trend of late. I think Ansah will be there when we pick.

Even if Ansah isn't there, go with the next BPA. We can likely get a good DE in round 2 if we wish, maybe someone like Tank Carradine

NY+Giants=NYG
12-30-2012, 09:30 PM
We scored the 2nd most points in team history this year. Offense wasn't the problem, it was our defense.

We just need 2 OLmen and we'll be fine offensively. Re-sign Cruz and Nicks, and Bennett, draft 2 OLmen and we'll be fine. Change concepts in the playbook to counter the adjustments made to our scheme.

Defensively we need a whole new front 7 outside of JPP and 1 or 2 more CBs.

Defense is useless. I go into every game with that mentality, so when they do show up it's a nice surprise. Oh, well, nice of you to show up. It's appreciated, and I am happy. But other than that they are useless. PF is useless.

Offense red zone is an issue for us. OL stunk, Nicks is always hurt, and our offensive system was stalled out against good teams. They knew the routes we run, and the Cbs were in our hip pocket.

Maybe the Eagles did quit, but what I talking about was the aggressive nature and play calling. If it failed, fine, but at least we had the balls to run those plays. That element I liked, and we don't do that throughout the season. Shame on us for screwing up our potential.

If Gilbride leaves fine, I don't mind that. I respect him for his services, but a change is needed in system on defense, and perhaps offense. If not, we need to add more concepts or Eli will get killed.

bigbluedefense
12-30-2012, 09:33 PM
Gilbride will adjust. I'm very confident in that. You can't redo your entire playbook during the season. He was stuck in a bind, what do you want the man to do? The whole playbook is designed off those WR rules. You can't just change that and the muscle memory of these WRs at the drop of a hat, you know that.

He'll rework the playbook this offseason and we'll be fine. I'm not worried about our offense at all. We just need some OLmen which I'm sure we'll look into as well.

scottyboy
12-30-2012, 10:08 PM
BBD, don't even bother scouting Dion Jordan, he should be long gone. he's a STUD. more of a 3-4 olb i believe though

Forenci
12-30-2012, 10:53 PM
Yeah I have to look into some more college players. I haven't done too much scouting. I am looking forward to watching some more players.

I've seen a bit of Ansah and really really like him. He just was completely misused at BYU. Played inside a ton. It's actually one thing that would fit well with us. Could easily stick him inside when we go with four DE's on the line.

I know it was an Eagle's team that quit but it's nice to go out on a high note. Randle really excites me. I feel like we really need to find that super reliable WR (ala Steve Smith) though. I feel like Eli really missed that type of player on third down this year.

BigBlueNorwegian
12-31-2012, 07:04 AM
We scored the 2nd most points in team history this year. Offense wasn't the problem, it was our defense.

We just need 2 OLmen and we'll be fine offensively. Re-sign Cruz and Nicks, and Bennett, draft 2 OLmen and we'll be fine. Change concepts in the playbook to counter the adjustments made to our scheme.

Defensively we need a whole new front 7 outside of JPP and 1 or 2 more CBs.

I agree that our offense certainly was a smaller problem than almost everything else on the team, but let's not pretend like they didn't also wet the bed in some of our losses. The 2nd most points-stat comes from multiple blowout wins. In our seven losses, we scored 17,17,20,13,16,0 and 14 points. Not exactly enough to win a lot of games in the modern day NFL unless you have a DOMINANT defense.

And they really wet the bed the last two weeks of the season, along with the rest of the team of course.

Jughead10
12-31-2012, 08:37 AM
I know we don't draft on need. But where is everyone feeling our top needs our? In no particular order for me CB, LB, OL.

And this is assuming Corey Webster is gone. I can't see how we keep him unless he's cut and re-signed on the cheap.

Giantsfan1080
12-31-2012, 08:57 AM
Top needs for me are DL, OL, and CB.

Jughead10
12-31-2012, 09:09 AM
Well I've seen some things that suggest Kiwi will finally be a full time DE only next year. That and I have trust (maybe foolishly) in some of the young guys who have never played.

Cutting Webster would save roughly 9 million on the cap. Is that what everyone else has seen?

NY+Giants=NYG
12-31-2012, 09:12 AM
Gilbride will adjust. I'm very confident in that. You can't redo your entire playbook during the season. He was stuck in a bind, what do you want the man to do? The whole playbook is designed off those WR rules. You can't just change that and the muscle memory of these WRs at the drop of a hat, you know that.

He'll rework the playbook this offseason and we'll be fine. I'm not worried about our offense at all. We just need some OLmen which I'm sure we'll look into as well.

Historically, I'd agree, I usually have annoyances, but I don't worry about them. This year shattered that. In fact it's the opposite, I worry now about the offense and for the defense I don't. Like I said, I go in to the game knowing their useless. If PF has a great game plan like the 9ers game, it's a happy day.

Well if and when they re-work the playbook then that's good. But, they need to add tendency breakers throughout the season. The plays and concepts can't get old as there is more film available.

Giantsfan1080
12-31-2012, 09:19 AM
Well I've seen some things that suggest Kiwi will finally be a full time DE only next year. That and I have trust (maybe foolishly) in some of the young guys who have never played.

Cutting Webster would save roughly 9 million on the cap. Is that what everyone else has seen?

We still have no DE depth after JPP and Kiwi. Tuck in limited time might be better and we have no idea what Tracy and Ojomo are. Even DT is a need with only Joseph and Canty.

Webster will probably get cut unfortunately. I think he was hurt all year so I'd still like to see him back because I think he still has some good football left in him. He played pretty well yesterday.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-31-2012, 09:21 AM
We have a lot of important moves and decisions to make this off season. I like that fork in the road so to speak. We need to make good sound decisions.
Do they post coordinator contracts?

Is Fewell's contract now up? And Gilbride has been here since 2007 as an OC, but do they ever state how long his contract is?

Jughead10
12-31-2012, 09:21 AM
We still have no DE depth after JPP and Kiwi. Tuck in limited time might be better and we have no idea what Tracy and Ojomo are. Even DT is a need with only Joseph and Canty.

Webster will probably get cut unfortunately. I think he was hurt all year so I'd still like to see him back because I think he still has some good football left in him. He played pretty well yesterday.

I really wish Ojomo would have gotten into a game or two just to better have an idea of what we really have.

Jughead10
12-31-2012, 09:22 AM
We have a lot of important moves and decisions to make this off season. I like that fork in the road so to speak. We need to make good sound decisions.
Do they post coordinator contracts?

Is Fewell's contract now up? And Gilbride has been here since 2007 as an OC, but do they ever state how long his contract is?

I did read somewhere that Fewell's contract is up. Although I don't really know how accurate it was.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-31-2012, 09:30 AM
Yeah I saw that on BBI and posted it. Just want to confirm it. Also curious in general, if media post contract lengths for coordinators? I don't ever recall reading how long Gilbride was signed for.

Giantsfan1080
12-31-2012, 09:30 AM
I really wish Ojomo would have gotten into a game or two just to better have an idea of what we really have.

Yeah I was hoping he was active yesterday and was able to get it. The game still meant something though so they didn't want to go young. If he has another big preseason then we should have somewhat of a better idea.