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Giantsfan1080
12-31-2012, 09:34 AM
Yeah I saw that on BBI and posted it. Just want to confirm it. Also curious in general, if media post contract lengths for coordinators? I don't ever recall reading how long Gilbride was signed for.

We generally don't get to see coordinator contracts. I'm sure someone in the media will have that information for us soon. If you use Twitter try asking one of the beat guys if they can find out the status of the coordinators.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-31-2012, 09:51 AM
We generally don't get to see coordinator contracts. I'm sure someone in the media will have that information for us soon. If you use Twitter try asking one of the beat guys if they can find out the status of the coordinators.

I will check twitter. I am not on it though. I barely use FB, so not really a social media guy. But now with all these firings just curious to see who could come in. I hope fewell is done here.

Rosebud
12-31-2012, 10:36 AM
I want another stud along the DL. I want Tuck to be gone, us to keep Osi for one more year and to start Kiwi opposite JPP. Even if Ojomo is a future starter that would still leave room for an Ansah or Carradine to join the rotation.

Forenci
12-31-2012, 10:39 AM
Osi isn't going to sign for one year though.

Giantsfan1080
12-31-2012, 10:40 AM
Osi is already signed for next year. His cap hit may be to large though so everyone assumed he would just cut him.

Jughead10
12-31-2012, 10:41 AM
Osi is already signed for next year. His cap hit may be to large though so everyone assumed he would just cut him.

I think this is incorrect. I'm pretty sure he's a free agent.

Rosebud
12-31-2012, 10:42 AM
Osi isn't going to sign for one year though.

If not then not. I'd offer him one year at a high salary or 3 at something more befitting a situational pass rusher, if he's not happy with either offer let him walk. JPP, Kiwi, Rookie and Ojomo wouldn't be the worst way to enter the season.

Forenci
12-31-2012, 10:42 AM
Osi is already signed for next year. His cap hit may be to large though so everyone assumed he would just cut him.

Are you sure? Either way, he will likely be gone if that's the case.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-31-2012, 10:49 AM
It's a voidable year I heard. So if voided, he played his last game for us.

Giantsfan1080
12-31-2012, 10:51 AM
Yes he's signed for next year but it's only for a $1 million. No way he plays for that.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-31-2012, 10:54 AM
Voidable means the team voids it right, not the player?

Forenci
12-31-2012, 10:54 AM
I will miss Osi, despite all the antics (which were overplayed in my opinion).

It's a sad day. We really need some roster turnover though.

Also, I'm not one to question Eli, but I have become a little concerned with him this season. Mainly because of his deep ball. Was it just me or does it seem like EVERY ball he throws deep results in the wide receiver having to stop his route, turn around and make a jump ball catch with the DB there? It just seemed like the arm strength wasn't there this year. Maybe that's a result of the arm tiredness.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-31-2012, 11:00 AM
More of a reason to add short dink and dunks to this system. Try not to make a lot of the concepts 5 and 7 step drops and the routes associated with it. I liked some elements of the dink and dunk that Big Ben ran in Haley's new system.

I liked yesterday's passing concepts to our RB and FB. More of those would be great! OL has to block for a less time, and you get rid of the ball quicker.

OSUGiants17
12-31-2012, 01:56 PM
Yea Eli looked like his arm was dead this year, didn't hit guys in stride on the deep routes as well as he did last year and like you said a lot of the time they had to stop. I trust him to step up next year though. Still can't believe our season is over, this year flew by.

Also, Lovie Smith was fired, potential DC? I know me and BBD would love that.

Giantsfan1080
12-31-2012, 02:50 PM
Garafolo says Fewell's contract is not up so crap.

Jets and Panthers will interview Marc Ross for vacant GM opening.

Big_Pete
12-31-2012, 02:52 PM
With Lovie Smith's firing, he jumps to the top of my DC wish list.

NYG is a good landing spot for him, his defensive style was only played in Minnesota and here.

He does have the option here of being groomed as Coughlin's successor.

I'd be ok keeping Fewell as DB coach (which he held under Smith in St Louis in 2003)

Big_Pete
12-31-2012, 03:14 PM
If not then not. I'd offer him one year at a high salary or 3 at something more befitting a situational pass rusher, if he's not happy with either offer let him walk. JPP, Kiwi, Rookie and Ojomo wouldn't be the worst way to enter the season.

I wouldn't mind bringing in Martellus' little brother Michael into the mix if Tuck and Osi depart. At the very least he can compete with Kiwi for the start opposite JPP and we could have three vet DEs whilst our rookie (and maybe Trattou/Tracy/Ojomo) develops.

AcheTen (Thumper)
12-31-2012, 04:50 PM
Bjoern Werner would look really good on the Giants DLine next year.

Rosebud
12-31-2012, 06:06 PM
My biggest concern with Lovie is that if he did become our DC I think he would be Coughlin's heir. And as a Chicago resident, that scares the **** out of me.

Big_Pete
01-01-2013, 12:35 AM
Osi is already signed for next year. His cap hit may be to large though so everyone assumed he would just cut him.

Rotoworld has Osi listed as an UFA

here is what they have on Osi's contract

6/1/2012: Signed a one-year, $6 million contract. The deal included a $2 million signing bonus. Another $500,000 is available through sack-based incentives. 2012: $2.5 million (+ $250,000 reporting bonus + $500,000 roster bonus + $750,000 in per-game roster bonuses), 2013: Free Agent

Giantsfan1080
01-01-2013, 04:43 PM
Check Spotrac.

OSUGiants17
01-02-2013, 10:55 AM
The home/away games of our 2013 schedule have been released:

HOME

Washington Redskins (10-6)
Dallas Cowboys (8-8)
Philadelphia Eagles (4-12)
Denver Broncos (13-3)
Oakland Raiders (4-12)
Green Bay Packers (11-5)
Minnesota Vikings (10-6)
Seattle Seahawks (11-5)

AWAY

Redskins
Cowboys
Eagles
Kansas City Chiefs (2-14)
San Diego (7-9)
Chicago Bears (10-6)
Detroit Lions (4-12)
Carolina Panthers (7-9)

NY+Giants=NYG
01-02-2013, 01:20 PM
Garafolo says Fewell's contract is not up so crap.

Jets and Panthers will interview Marc Ross for vacant GM opening.

NOooooooooooooo!!!! Coughlin's presser he gave a weak declaration that fewell was his coach. I didn't expect a classy guy like TC to throw him under the bus.

Rolle on the WFAN has a big your tongue moment and took the classy, high route when Evan asked him about Fewell.

I feel like we stick with this guy, but I would HATE to see Fewell come back.

27
31st

ranked defense in the regular season. I am tired of that. I thank him for the SB run, it saved his job, but I want a change. I hate his defensive philosophy.

Giantsfan1080
01-02-2013, 02:22 PM
Official Giants FA list. I guess we already voided Osi's 2nd year.

C Jim Cordle ERFA
CB Brian Witherspoon UFA
CB Bruce Johnson UFA
CB Justin Tryon UFA
DE Justin Trattou ERFA
DE Osi Umenyiora UFA
DT Rocky Bernard UFA
DT Shaun Rogers UFA
S Stevie Brown RFA
LB Adrian Tracy ERFA
LB Chase Blackburn UFA
LB Keith Rivers UFA
G Kevin Boothe UFA
T Sean Locklear UFA
T Will Beatty UFA
PK Lawrence Tynes UFA
QB David Carr UFA
RB Andre Brown RFA
RB Kregg Lumpkin UFA
RB Ryan Torain RFA
S Kenny Phillips UFA
TE Bear Pascoe RFA
TE Martellus Bennett UFA
TE Travis Beckum UFA
WR Domenik Hixon UFA
WR Ramses Barden UFA
WR Victor Cruz RFA

BigBlueNorwegian
01-02-2013, 02:51 PM
Official Giants FA list. I guess we already voided Osi's 2nd year.

C Jim Cordle ERFA
CB Brian Witherspoon UFA
CB Bruce Johnson UFA
CB Justin Tryon UFA
DE Justin Trattou ERFA
DE Osi Umenyiora UFA
DT Rocky Bernard UFA
DT Shaun Rogers UFA
S Stevie Brown RFA
LB Adrian Tracy ERFA
LB Chase Blackburn UFA
LB Keith Rivers UFA
G Kevin Boothe UFA
T Sean Locklear UFA
T Will Beatty UFA
PK Lawrence Tynes UFA
QB David Carr UFA
RB Andre Brown RFA
RB Kregg Lumpkin UFA
RB Ryan Torain RFA
S Kenny Phillips UFA
TE Bear Pascoe RFA
TE Martellus Bennett UFA
TE Travis Beckum UFA
WR Domenik Hixon UFA
WR Ramses Barden UFA
WR Victor Cruz RFA

Green for the players we absolutely should get to sign new contracts. Orange for the players I'd only sign for the right amount of money. The whites are either people I want gone, or in Osi's case, people I suspect want to leave.

Jughead10
01-02-2013, 03:12 PM
Green for the players we absolutely should get to sign new contracts. Orange for the players I'd only sign for the right amount of money. The whites are either people I want gone, or in Osi's case, people I suspect want to leave.

I'd put Blackburn in the green. He's not spectacular but he's reliable and he should still be cheap. This LB corps needs a complete makeover and it's not going to happen overnight. Keeping Blackburn on a cheap 1-2 year deal will be a stop gap. At the very least after getting pushed around for a while, he does have a tendency to make a big play here and there.

scottyboy
01-02-2013, 03:23 PM
yeah, juggie knows what's up

Jughead10
01-02-2013, 04:16 PM
I just don't know if there is a linebacker on this team worth keeping. Boley is, but at what price. He could be a cap casualty. Williams is really the only one because he makes nothing basically.

Rosebud
01-02-2013, 04:28 PM
Williams is a must keep, even if he got a light raise, especially if we let Boley go. Chase cause he's cheap and Herz cause he's cheap, would also be worth keeping around. But despite that, I'd still rather see more picks on the DL and DBs before we go after a linebacker. DE in the first, DB in the second and then LB/DT in the 3rd and 4th. That's how I'm hoping the board works out for us.

Jughead10
01-02-2013, 04:32 PM
Linebackers just don't get paid a lot these days. I think we might be able to get some in FA to fill gaps. Not sure who is even available but there have to be guys out there better than what we have. I wouldn't mind coming back next year with Williams, Blackburn, move Kiwi to the line, and have all new LBers on this team.

Giantsfan1080
01-02-2013, 04:35 PM
The LB available in FA this year are AWFUL.

Forenci
01-02-2013, 05:40 PM
I'm fine with keeping Blackburn as a stop gap. Much like the guard position, I think it's something we can hold off on addressing for another year. Sure up are essential positions like DE, CB, or DT. Do that and then deal with some of the positions you can get away with holding off on like LB or OG.

Also, I don't know if this is true but I heard on WFAN Fewell had been extended a couple months ago? If that's the case he is certainly not going anywhere. I don't know how we're retaining a guy who helped lead one of the leagues worst defenses.

Giantsfan1080
01-02-2013, 06:09 PM
No one knows for sure but I doubt he was extended months ago. If anything he probably got a year or two tacked on after the SB when Coughlin also got his deal. Sometimes we're to loyal by default.

Forenci
01-02-2013, 06:53 PM
Haha yeah. That is certainly the downfall of Coughlin in particular. Loyalty is to be commended, but being too loyal can cost your team and it's ability to be successful.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-02-2013, 08:57 PM
I'd put Blackburn in the green. He's not spectacular but he's reliable and he should still be cheap. This LB corps needs a complete makeover and it's not going to happen overnight. Keeping Blackburn on a cheap 1-2 year deal will be a stop gap. At the very least after getting pushed around for a while, he does have a tendency to make a big play here and there.

I think we should only sign him if he's willing to agree to what you're saying, a cheap(veteran minimum) 1-2 year deal. He's not a starter at linebacker in this league. Okay backup? Sure. Good ST player? Yup. But not a starter.

We need to start to at least try to change up our LB core. Try to let some young guys play, and see if they develop. Paysinger, Herzlich, Jwill, those guys. If they don't, have some veterans as a plan B.

Sure, we could keep Chase around, but only as a backup, in my eyes. He shouldn't start for us, or any other NFL team for that matter. Love the guy, he's made some huge plays for us in some of the biggest games. But he is what he is now. A backup.

bigbluedefense
01-03-2013, 07:59 AM
Keep Chase as a backup. He should not start though. The whole LB core needs to be new guys, JWILL on the weakside, new MIKE, new SAM.

I think we should actively pursue OGs too. Our guard play has been mediocre at best, and our run game is heavily dependent on them to clear the way. Boothe can't pull and is average as a power blocker, and Snee is just old now. Getting some maulers at Guard would dramatically improve our run game.

Jughead10
01-03-2013, 08:05 AM
I wonder how the coaches feel about Brewer. He is just someone who never seems to be in danger of being cut but never is close to seeing the field. Could he be a guard long term?

Forenci
01-03-2013, 08:18 AM
As much as I hate to say it, Coughlin is too loyal to old vets sometimes. There's no chance he places Snee, of all people.

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2013, 08:24 AM
I wonder how the coaches feel about Brewer. He is just someone who never seems to be in danger of being cut but never is close to seeing the field. Could he be a guard long term?

Isn't he to tall to play G? I'd rather see him at RT next year.

Jughead10
01-03-2013, 08:26 AM
Isn't he to tall to play G? I'd rather see him at RT next year.

He might be. Leonard Davis was a very good guard in this league for a few years and he has a similar body.

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2013, 08:31 AM
Depending on our cuts we're really not going to have all that much money for any FA's. Most of our improvements will have to come through the draft this year.

bigbluedefense
01-03-2013, 10:05 AM
I don't know how I feel about Brewer. Didn't really wow me whenever I saw him.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-03-2013, 11:58 AM
Keep Chase as a backup. He should not start though. The whole LB core needs to be new guys, JWILL on the weakside, new MIKE, new SAM.

I think we should actively pursue OGs too. Our guard play has been mediocre at best, and our run game is heavily dependent on them to clear the way. Boothe can't pull and is average as a power blocker, and Snee is just old now. Getting some maulers at Guard would dramatically improve our run game.

Snee will probably never be cut, at least not until Coughlin retires. He's married to Coughlins daughter, and I imagine that will be a very awkward family situation if it ever came to that.

But I do agree, some new guards would be nice. a road-grader LG to blast open holes for Wilson next year. It would be awesome. He would be gone in a flash.

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2013, 12:14 PM
I don't think Reese would have a problem cutting Snee. He doesn't care about the family dynamic and Snee certainly knows it's a business. He'd be the first one to tell you he's not playing as well as he used to.

Damix
01-03-2013, 12:51 PM
I don't think Reese would have a problem cutting Snee. He doesn't care about the family dynamic and Snee certainly knows it's a business. He'd be the first one to tell you he's not playing as well as he used to.

He also played through injury this year. I'm fine with Snee for at least one more year. Too many other holes to replace first.

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2013, 01:18 PM
Yeah same here. Much bigger fish to fry as you said.

Forenci
01-03-2013, 01:46 PM
Another thing to keep in mind is that we'll probably lose Marc Ross this year. He's been doing several interviews for a GM spot so unless he's a terrible interview or something I don't see how he doesn't get a job this year with another team.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-03-2013, 01:51 PM
Another thing to keep in mind is that we'll probably lose Marc Ross this year. He's been doing several interviews for a GM spot so unless he's a terrible interview or something I don't see how he doesn't get a job this year with another team.

No, we're spreading rumors through the grapevine that he's a homosexual, and homosexual black guys just don't get GM positions. This way we can keep him forever. Muhahahaha!

Forenci
01-03-2013, 01:54 PM
We can only hope, but I'm pretty sure he's as good as gone haha. We didn't try hard enough to spread that rumor.

bigbluedefense
01-03-2013, 03:27 PM
I'll accept Marc Ross' departure if and only if he takes Perry Fewell with him to be his HC.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-03-2013, 04:48 PM
I am resigned to the fact stupid Fewell isn't going anywhere. It would have been done already so Fewell could try to get a job. Now he is damaged goods. No one wants a HC who can't master his own side of the ball. It's not like Fewell is a "hot" named coach and will get interviews.

Big_Pete
01-03-2013, 05:11 PM
Depending on our cuts we're really not going to have all that much money for any FA's. Most of our improvements will have to come through the draft this year.

We all know that rookies are not likely to start under Coughlin. The most likely impact they would have is to work into the rotation towards the latter half of their rookie year.

Remember with rookies, we are building for the future, not necessarily to fill immediate needs.

I do think we can rework some deals and create some reasonable cap room to work with.

Big_Pete
01-03-2013, 05:14 PM
I am resigned to the fact stupid Fewell isn't going anywhere. It would have been done already so Fewell could try to get a job. Now he is damaged goods. No one wants a HC who can't master his own side of the ball. It's not like Fewell is a "hot" named coach and will get interviews.

I actually think Fewell will somewhat reinvent his philosophy in the offseason.

I think Perry Fewell will make adjusments to his schemes including some more aggressive elements to the repetoire. He has relied on the line to get to the quarterback, but I think he will include more blitzing. We saw a little of that late in the season, but comprehensive blitz packages will take an offseason to install.

We will still have the same core, but will also have more aggressive options in his bag of tricks.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-03-2013, 06:02 PM
I actually think Fewell will somewhat reinvent his philosophy in the offseason.

I think Perry Fewell will make adjusments to his schemes including some more aggressive elements to the repetoire. He has relied on the line to get to the quarterback, but I think he will include more blitzing. We saw a little of that late in the season, but comprehensive blitz packages will take an offseason to install.

We will still have the same core, but will also have more aggressive options in his bag of tricks.

LOL. I hope that happens! I'd settle for average or 16th ranked in total yards. Christ, 27th and 31st is miserable! I doubt he adds any blitz packages. When he does it all gets blocked and picked up. Your typical show and tell blitz and since it's shown they block it up, DL gets stopped,and secondary gets bent over.

Maybe he will stop putting all his eggs in the DL, pass rush basket, and actually help compliment them with aggressiveness. I wouldn't hold my breath. I really can't stand his philosophy and system.

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2013, 06:36 PM
I actually think Fewell will somewhat reinvent his philosophy in the offseason.

I think Perry Fewell will make adjusments to his schemes including some more aggressive elements to the repetoire. He has relied on the line to get to the quarterback, but I think he will include more blitzing. We saw a little of that late in the season, but comprehensive blitz packages will take an offseason to install.

We will still have the same core, but will also have more aggressive options in his bag of tricks.

Why would he change now after he didn't all season?

scottyboy
01-03-2013, 07:19 PM
Why would he change now after he didn't all season?

because I kidnapped his family. that's why

Big_Pete
01-03-2013, 07:31 PM
Why would he change now after he didn't all season?

Pressure from Coughlin, Reese and co

Remember Coughlin's comments that it may take an offseason to fix our passrush?
He may not be refering to talent alone

Big_Pete
01-03-2013, 09:49 PM
deleted.....

Big_Pete
01-03-2013, 10:02 PM
Jerry Reese wants Michael Strahan to work with Jason Pierre-Paul

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/03/giants-want-michael-strahan-to-work-with-jason-pierre-paul/

Rosebud
01-04-2013, 10:14 AM
because I kidnapped his family. that's why

Now we're not condoning that sort of behavior...but you would have like, at least 34% of my love

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2013, 11:13 AM
Marc Ross turned down the Jets because he wanted to hire his own coach. Only Carolina to worry about at this moment.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2013, 02:03 PM
2013 Training Camp to be held at the Timex Center and not in Albany.

Big_Pete
01-04-2013, 02:34 PM
Marc Ross turned down the Jets because he wanted to hire his own coach. Only Carolina to worry about at this moment.

Giants college scouting director Marc Ross and senior pro personnel analyst Dave Gettleman are GM candidates in Carolina.

What is the impact if Gettleman were to leave?

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2013, 02:42 PM
Ross now interviewing with the Jaguars and Chargers. Ross is as good as gone.

Forenci
01-04-2013, 04:10 PM
Yeah that's what I was referring to before when I said Ross was gone when I saw he was interviewing with those teams too.

Damix
01-04-2013, 04:32 PM
Panthers to sign Dave Gettleman as their GM, never even heard of him

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2013, 04:40 PM
2 big hits to the FO this offseason.

scottyboy
01-04-2013, 04:58 PM
they should collectively hire us as one FO hire. I'd like to think we'd be useful

Forenci
01-04-2013, 05:39 PM
You traded a first round pick for Braylon Edwards so it won't be you, Scotty.

scottyboy
01-04-2013, 06:00 PM
You traded a first round pick for Braylon Edwards so it won't be you, Scotty.

THAT WAS SO LONG AGO!

I've made some steals in the past though so shush.
Also, I've been chase's biggest advocate and the coaches always rave about him soCHALK ONE UP FOR SCOTTY

Forenci
01-04-2013, 07:40 PM
THAT WAS SO LONG AGO!

I've made some steals in the past though so shush.
Also, I've been chase's biggest advocate and the coaches always rave about him soCHALK ONE UP FOR SCOTTY

Raving for a mediocre linebacker? NICE CALL SCOTTY!

Braylon for a 1st and a 3rd! A FIRST AND A THIRD!

#wewillneverforget

D-Unit
01-04-2013, 07:45 PM
I love you scotty, but in the last forum mock you took Ryan Wagner with the 18th pick. The mock going on now is in the middle of Round 3 and nobody has taken him yet. :D

Giants fans, don't let him take over! haha.

Forenci
01-04-2013, 07:46 PM
Scottyboy is dead to me. Between the crappy Rutgers picks and his horrendous reputation as a forum mock(er) I can't trust him to run our team.

scottyboy
01-04-2013, 08:00 PM
To be fair, that mock was before the cfb season started, we all know how stock change. I also took harvin a fee years ago when nicks and company were gone so suck it all of you!

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2013, 08:05 PM
Scottyboy is dead to me. Between the crappy Rutgers picks and his horrendous reputation as a forum mock(er) I can't trust him to run our team.

Better than the ****** UConn player you would have took I'm sure.

OSUGiants17
01-04-2013, 08:33 PM
I love you scotty, but in the last forum mock you took Ryan Wagner with the 18th pick. The mock going on now is in the middle of Round 3 and nobody has taken him yet. :D

Giants fans, don't let him take over! haha.

It was Ricky Wagner and it was months ago when he was considered one of the top 3 OTs in the draft. Obviously things have changed since then.

Forenci
01-04-2013, 09:41 PM
Better than the ****** UConn player you would have took I'm sure.

I don't overrated UConn players. I perfectly accept that UConn is crap.

Giantsfan1080
01-04-2013, 10:08 PM
I don't overrated UConn players. I perfectly accept that UConn is crap.

The team as a whole has major problems at times but you can't deny that the players we have are NFL ready. Scotty and I have never pimped anyone up who totally busted in the NFL.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-05-2013, 10:00 AM
I think they should have a rule if you win a SB you get an automatic bid to defend. LOL. It's shocking to not be playing. I don't know what to do. What a stupid team and can't get their head of their butts!

Now I have to wait until the draft and FA.

bigbluedefense
01-05-2013, 10:53 AM
I actually think Fewell will somewhat reinvent his philosophy in the offseason.

I think Perry Fewell will make adjusments to his schemes including some more aggressive elements to the repetoire. He has relied on the line to get to the quarterback, but I think he will include more blitzing. We saw a little of that late in the season, but comprehensive blitz packages will take an offseason to install.

We will still have the same core, but will also have more aggressive options in his bag of tricks.

I think this is wishful thinking on your part. Our defense actually was worse when we blitzed this past year than when we rushed 4. Statistically, we're a worse blitzing defense than a 4 man rush defense.

Fewell will use that ammo to stick to his gameplan.

The problem is, instead of looking at himself and realizing that he draws up terrible blitzes with no disguise or originality, he'll simply blame it on the players and stick to what he loves to do, which is rush 4 and play Cover 2 on the backend.

Now to be fair to Fewell, our secondary and LB core was awful this year. Much of this problem was talent. Our CBs outside of Prince played terribly all season long, and our LBs can't cover outside of Boley and Williams, but even Boley lost a step.

So Fewell was in a bind all season long. As much as I hate Fewell, I blame the players more than Fewell for our defensive output this season. We simply didn't have much talent on defense. Big names, but no substance behind those names.

We need to replenish this defense this offseason with a lot of talent. We need another CB, hope and pray Hoseley can handle the slot in his sophomore season, we need to sign back Kenny to shore up our safeties and deep ball defense, we need 2 more linebackers, and we need a DE and DT to shore up the front.

We're a soft defense in the middle of the field. Soft at DT, and soft at LB, and without Kenny, soft at S. The middle of the field is our weakness, and has been for YEARS. This is a problem that must be resolved if you want to be an elite defense.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-05-2013, 11:14 AM
I really want the Giants to make the SB next year, when it's played at the Metlife Stadium. It would be awesome to have "home-field advantage" in the SB!

So we better fix this team up to be a true contender this offseason.

Forenci
01-05-2013, 01:20 PM
The team as a whole has major problems at times but you can't deny that the players we have are NFL ready. Scotty and I have never pimped anyone up who totally busted in the NFL.

Totally busted isn't a fair measurement. Although I'd say Kenny Britt is a pretty huge bust. Despite the initial hype, McCourty is been pretty disappointing for New England, so much that they had to move him to safety. Brian Leonard isn't that good. Anthony Davis hasn't lived up to where he was picked either. Arguably one of the weaker links on the 49ers line.

bigbluedefense
01-05-2013, 03:14 PM
Btw, am I the only one who forgot that Marvin Austin is even on the team? He was healthy this season yet even with our severe lack of depth and injuries at DT he didn't sniff the field.

I hated that draft pick when it was made, and he's turning into the bust I thought he'd be.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-05-2013, 03:19 PM
No, I always do. LOL. Even JJ at WR, until he played special teams I forgot about him too.

Forenci
01-05-2013, 05:47 PM
Yeah, I thought the Austin pick was solid because of his upside but clearly he sucks. I can't really say we missed on Geno Atkins because EVERY team missed on him for three rounds, but I was a big Atkins fan too.

Oh well, sometimes you swing for a home run and miss. I felt is was a luxury pick that Reese doesn't normally make.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-05-2013, 10:48 PM
Btw, am I the only one who forgot that Marvin Austin is even on the team? He was healthy this season yet even with our severe lack of depth and injuries at DT he didn't sniff the field.

I hated that draft pick when it was made, and he's turning into the bust I thought he'd be.

I remember you pimping Geno Atkins that year, telling everyone in our thread at least that he was going to become a beast. You called that one! Imagine if we had a D-line of JPP/Osi-Linval-Geno-Tuck/JPP my god we would be beastly if the old guys decided to show up!!

Big_Pete
01-06-2013, 03:17 AM
Jerry Reese has mentioned the possibility of moving Terrell Thomas to safety if he successfully comes back.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/21575/reese-wonders-about-a-thomas-switch

Giantsfan1080
01-06-2013, 08:39 AM
Totally busted isn't a fair measurement. Although I'd say Kenny Britt is a pretty huge bust. Despite the initial hype, McCourty is been pretty disappointing for New England, so much that they had to move him to safety. Brian Leonard isn't that good. Anthony Davis hasn't lived up to where he was picked either. Arguably one of the weaker links on the 49ers line.

Huh? Davis was amazing this year. Should have been a Pro Bowler. Britt has the talent but yes injuries and his stupidity has derailed him so I can give you that but I think he does well next year. I never pimped Leonard because I didn't think a team would use him right which is what happened in STL. McCourty was a PB rookie and had a soph slump. This year at S he was very good and his brother is as well. You're such a hater. :)

scottyboy
01-06-2013, 10:20 AM
yeah forenci, you didn't exactly have the best of arguments on that one haha.

I pimped Leonard. I'll admit it. He was my big miss, but it's not like he's out of football. He was also like our savior of the program and has a soft spot in the hearts of all rutgers fans so that's a bit of a pass.

Zak and I have been right WAY more than we've been wrong about our RU guys. You think people would realize that by now.

PS. I also pimped Justin Francis as a rotational 3-4 guy. and oh. He's exactly that in New England. Boomtown. One of my better hits I do say so myself

Forenci
01-06-2013, 11:43 AM
Huh? Davis was amazing this year. Should have been a Pro Bowler. Britt has the talent but yes injuries and his stupidity has derailed him so I can give you that but I think he does well next year. I never pimped Leonard because I didn't think a team would use him right which is what happened in STL. McCourty was a PB rookie and had a soph slump. This year at S he was very good and his brother is as well. You're such a hater. :)

Davis gave up 10 sacks this year. For comparison, Will Beatty gave up 3 sacks.

And if you're talented a team will use you. Leonard just sucks. McCourty wasn't that special at safety, especially because he was a part of one of the leagues worst passing defenses.

I'm not that big of a hater really. I joke around about the whole UConn/Rutgers rivalry but honestly I'm not really a big college football fan so it doesn't mean too much to me.

Rosebud
01-06-2013, 11:47 AM
Well Will Beatty has turned into a damn sexy pass blocker now that he's finally put together a healthy season.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2013, 11:59 AM
I wouldn't call Beatty a beast...he just doesn't suck anymore. He still leaves a lot to be desired as a road grader and he's good but not spectacular as a pass protector.

Eli makes our OL look 10 billion times better than it is bc Eli is Eli. Sack numbers are misleading, Eli was one of the least sacked qbs this season bc of how quickly he can read a defense, his pocket presence, and how he gets the ball out.

I want a LG that's a road grader next to Beatty, I think that's actually a bigger priority than RT. I think we if we can find another Sean Locklear type at RT we could be ok there, but we need a LG.

Boothe is serviceable, but we need a LG who can pave holes for the run game. right now we struggle running to our left, and that's a problem.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2013, 12:00 PM
I remember you pimping Geno Atkins that year, telling everyone in our thread at least that he was going to become a beast. You called that one! Imagine if we had a D-line of JPP/Osi-Linval-Geno-Tuck/JPP my god we would be beastly if the old guys decided to show up!!

Geno :( The one that got away.


To be fair I've had plenty of misses myself so I can't complain with the job that Reese has done.

But dammit Reese get us some linebackers. Our scouting department does a terrible job of scouting linebackers.

Forenci
01-06-2013, 12:12 PM
I mean, I don't think we've done THAT poorly considering we haven't taken a linebacker above the fourth round in his tenure.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2013, 12:15 PM
And that's the problem. I'm not asking necessarily for a 1st round guy, but dammit Reese, at least hook me up with a guy in the 2nd or 3rd!

Look at all the great LBs that came out in this last draft in the 2nd round. We got none of them.

Wagner
Lavonte David
Kendricks

OSUGiants17
01-06-2013, 12:36 PM
Just wait till we take Khaseem Greene round 2 this year :)

scottyboy
01-06-2013, 12:42 PM
Just wait till we take Khaseem Greene round 2 this year :)

I know I said it before and you guys called me a homer but I'm really doubting he'll be there by our 2nd pick in all seriousness. Him and Arthur Brown's stock are just on the rise right now and I don't see the offseason and workouts dropping them

Rosebud
01-06-2013, 01:57 PM
While it'd be nice to get a LB, I still want a new exciting DE, DT, CB and OG more.

Big_Pete
01-06-2013, 03:51 PM
I am looking at the quality of talent in the offensive line and defensive front seven.

I think there is a shot that Teo is available when we pick in the first and a decent chance the top DEs and OT are gone. I think that unless Teo has amazing workouts (which Kuechly did) he is going to slip as teams load up on premium positons.

Given the depth this year, we should be able to get DE and LB help anywhere in the top three rounds.

Big_Pete
01-06-2013, 03:53 PM
I mean, I don't think we've done THAT poorly considering we haven't taken a linebacker above the fourth round in his tenure.

Assuming you exclude Clint Sintim (2nd/2009) and Gerris Wilkinson (3rd/2006).

I guess technically Wilkinson was drafted in the last year of Accorsi's tenure, but Reese was head of scouting and was being groomed to take over.

Forenci
01-06-2013, 06:08 PM
Assuming you exclude Clint Sintim (2nd/2009) and Gerris Wilkinson (3rd/2006).

I guess technically Wilkinson was drafted in the last year of Accorsi's tenure, but Reese was head of scouting and was being groomed to take over.

Like I said, for Reese's tenure and I don't really count Sintim because we pretty much converted him to DE after year one.

Giantsfan1080
01-06-2013, 06:13 PM
Alex we never converted him to DE. It's the other way around. We should have left him at DE!

LTgiants
01-06-2013, 06:15 PM
Alex we never converted him to DE. It's the other way around. We should have left him at DE!

I am pretty sure the only significant play he made as a Giant was a DE when he sacked Romo.

Big_Pete
01-06-2013, 06:37 PM
Like I said, for Reese's tenure and I don't really count Sintim because we pretty much converted him to DE after year one.

But we did draft Sintim to play linebacker.

Here is an 2011 article where Reese still refers to Sintim as a linebacker
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/4538/reese-sintim-needs-to-grow-up

The fact that Sintim got on the field as a DE was only because he failed as an OLB. Excluding Sintim from Reese's LB draft history is realistic.

But hey it's all water under the bridge. Hopefully we upgrade our LB group this offseason.

Forenci
01-06-2013, 07:59 PM
Alex we never converted him to DE. It's the other way around. We should have left him at DE!

You're right. I guess I just remember him lining up and being talked about so much at DE so for me I don't really count him as a LB pick but I suppose he is.

Forenci
01-07-2013, 02:23 AM
Also, I wanted to give some more props to Prince. Not just for the fact he was great this year but for him being a pretty awesome guy in general. From everything I've seen and read on him, as well as following him on twitter, he just seems like an extremely intelligent and good guy.

Forenci
01-07-2013, 02:24 AM
Also, I wanted to give some more props to Prince. Not just for the fact he was great this year but for him being a pretty awesome guy in general. From everything I've seen and read on him, as well as following him on twitter, he just seems like an extremely intelligent and good guy.

BigBlueNorwegian
01-07-2013, 05:45 AM
I am looking at the quality of talent in the offensive line and defensive front seven.

I think there is a shot that Teo is available when we pick in the first and a decent chance the top DEs and OT are gone. I think that unless Teo has amazing workouts (which Kuechly did) he is going to slip as teams load up on premium positons.

Given the depth this year, we should be able to get DE and LB help anywhere in the top three rounds.

I really doubt that, but if it were to happen, I would want us to take him and never look back. He would look awesome in a Giants uniform!

Giantsfan1080
01-07-2013, 07:46 AM
I don't get the Te'o love. Maybe I'm just a ND hater though.

AcheTen (Thumper)
01-07-2013, 08:16 AM
Also, I wanted to give some more props to Prince. Not just for the fact he was great this year but for him being a pretty awesome guy in general. From everything I've seen and read on him, as well as following him on twitter, he just seems like an extremely intelligent and good guy.

Another guy who is extremely intelligent, caring, and an all-around "good guy"? Nnamdi Asomugha.

I'd rather have my football players talented and nasty bad guys (Lawrence Taylor anyone?) instead of intelligent, benevolent but mediocre players.

Rosebud
01-07-2013, 08:33 AM
Another guy who is extremely intelligent, caring, and an all-around "good guy"? Nnamdi Asomugha.

I'd rather have my football players talented and nasty bad guys (Lawrence Taylor anyone?) instead of intelligent, benevolent but mediocre players.

That's cool, completely irrelevant as Prince is anything but mediocre, but still good to know.

AcheTen (Thumper)
01-07-2013, 08:38 AM
That's cool, completely irrelevant as Prince is anything but mediocre, but still good to know.

The point is that being a "good guy" and/or intelligent shouldn't be any kind of criteria by which to judge football players whatsoever.

You don't want quitters or soft players, but how intelligent or kind-hearted they are basically is irrelevant.

Giantsfan1080
01-07-2013, 09:10 AM
Him being nice has nothing to do with his ability as a football player. It makes him more of a likeable person though.

Damix
01-07-2013, 09:58 AM
Is Coughlin actually going to trust a rookie MLB to play? That concerns me the most in drafting one in the first round. Unfortunately the FA options look pretty terrible as well.

Giantsfan1080
01-07-2013, 10:05 AM
Yeah we're not getting any help in FA for the LB position. I don't think Teo is all that good so I don't want him either. We're basically going to have to hope our younger guys take the next step. I think a hulking DT would help the run game and the LB corps in general.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-07-2013, 10:24 AM
The problem is we let DTs go in FA because we didn't want to over pay or spend on the money. We let Griffin go, then Barry C. Robbins was left go as well. We spent money on Canty, drafted LJ, and Austin and spend money on Rocky B.

So eventually, we will need to keep those guys even if it means tying up money at the DT position. I think we spend money on our DEs and other secondary spots that the DT we let go, and thought FA and draft could take care of it. Canty was hurt, and LJ had to take the load.

Giantsfan1080
01-07-2013, 10:29 AM
And then LJ got hurt also as the year went on. Since he was playing so many snaps he clearly wore down by the end of the year. After giving it a little thought I really think that might be our biggest defensive need right now and will help the D as a whole.

Damix
01-07-2013, 11:15 AM
And then LJ got hurt also as the year went on. Since he was playing so many snaps he clearly wore down by the end of the year. After giving it a little thought I really think that might be our biggest defensive need right now and will help the D as a whole.

Bust rate for DT sucks though =(

Yea I'm not being very helpful here, I know.

Malaka
01-07-2013, 11:42 AM
Glen Dorsey is a name that intrigues me. He won't be too expensive and I think he would be a good fit as a UT in our cover 2 defense. I don't buy that he will somehow return to LSU form but he could be a decent stop-gap for the right price. The Marvin Austin pick at first intrigued me but its looking worse and worse each passing day. I want to look up a little more on Kawann Short but he might be a good pick in round 1 for the Giants if not Jesse Williams in round 2 sounds nice too especially if Joseph walks.

As for LBs, Darryl Smith is the only decent name but I feel like that's a lateral move if Boley leaves. If the Bears happen to, in this alternate universe, decide to let Urlacher walk I would love the Giants to offer him a good 3 year decent contract. Lord that would make me happy and I wouldn't have to get pissed at Blackburn's slow ass.

Seeing as this league is becoming more and more pass heavy, I think a Boley/Williams nickel base defense is the best option going forward. I would also like to resign Rivers if he doesn't ask for much if he actually stays healthy I think he might be our best LB right now as unfortunate as that sounds. I love Herzlich and his story but he's a career back-up.

Big_Pete
01-07-2013, 01:41 PM
Is Coughlin actually going to trust a rookie MLB to play? That concerns me the most in drafting one in the first round. Unfortunately the FA options look pretty terrible as well.

Rookies don't usually start game 1. I can only think of one off the top of my head during Coughlin's tenure and that was Snee.

It depends on how ready they are and how well they pick up the playbook. Having said that I would expect if we had Teo he would be starting sooner than later.

I'm not saying Teo is a superstar and there is a degree of hype there, but he is a very good all round instinctive MLB.

scottyboy
01-07-2013, 03:36 PM
I can almost guarantee you Chase will start nxt year.

I mean, let's all overlook he's the only player the coaches constantly raved about. But hey, he's slow and sucks and scotty's just bein' scotty.

Again, obviously his talent can be upgraded, but his ability to be the head of the D is huge. Let's upgrade the guys infront of and along side, him.

Giantsfan1080
01-07-2013, 04:42 PM
This is by far the best GIF I've ever seen:

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7094/raylewisdupp.gif

OSUGiants17
01-07-2013, 04:58 PM
giants ain't superbowl champs anymore

thanks captain obvious

Giantsfan1080
01-07-2013, 08:50 PM
After watching Te'o this game it certainly confirms my belief on how overrated he is. A big pass from me.

Damix
01-07-2013, 09:05 PM
After watching Te'o this game it certainly confirms my belief on how overrated he is. A big pass from me.

Same here, also Barrett Jones doesn't look all that special. Chance though? Do want.

Giantsfan1080
01-07-2013, 09:09 PM
He'd be that nasty guard like Snee that would be awesome. I wouldn't mind that at all.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-07-2013, 09:13 PM
I'd like to draft some those Bama OL players! Very impressive!

Big_Pete
01-07-2013, 10:02 PM
He'd be that nasty guard like Snee that would be awesome. I wouldn't mind that at all.

I think Jones is a bit more versatile, kinda like Bruce Matthews. The kinda guy we can plug in at any position on the Oline and do a good job.

I think Jones is very under rated to be honest.

Big_Pete
01-07-2013, 10:08 PM
After watching Te'o this game it certainly confirms my belief on how overrated he is. A big pass from me.

That just means there is a better chance he is available when we are on the clock. ;)

I think one of the big problems in that game was the Bama Oline was too good for their Dline.

I still think Teo is a legit top 20 prospect, I always though top 5 was too high considering the value of MLB and the fact that Teo doesn't have the blazing speed of guys like Kuechly, Willis etc. He was a little over hyped as a prospect, but that doesn't mean he isn't a good MLB.

Giantsfan1080
01-08-2013, 07:25 AM
He can't tackle or shed blocks against NFL type linemen. This wasn't a spread offense he went up against and couldn't cover from sideline to sideline. He was getting thumped at the point of attack and couldn't do a thing about it. Also I want my MLB to make tackles and Te'o missed more in this game than I'd ever want to see from a 1st round pick.

Forenci
01-08-2013, 08:37 AM
Yeah I'm not a huge Te'o fan either. Never have been. He's a good player but certainly not great. He gets a big bump because of the Notre Dame hype factor. How he ever got Heisman consideration is beyond me. People calling him an elite type linebacker are just wrong. He's not good at absorbing blocks or shedding them. Would I be furious if we selected him? No, not really. Does that mean I want him? Probably not.

Haha if we could ever land Warmack I would be thrilled. Not sure if he falls that far but maybe because of his position he has the potential for it.

Jughead10
01-08-2013, 09:22 AM
Don't let one game form an opinion on Mantei T'eo. He's a stud linebacker. Notre Dame was taking great chances last night, probably realizing if that was their only chance to win. They were super aggressive on offense and defense. They were shooting gaps all night diving at the legs of ball carriers trying to get stops at the line or behind it. It obviously didn't work. They played scared. Probably rightfully so.

Giantsfan1080
01-08-2013, 09:30 AM
Don't let one game form an opinion on Mantei T'eo. He's a stud linebacker. Notre Dame was taking great chances last night, probably realizing if that was their only chance to win. They were super aggressive on offense and defense. They were shooting gaps all night diving at the legs of ball carriers trying to get stops at the line or behind it. It obviously didn't work. They played scared. Probably rightfully so.

It's not one game as I've been saying this for awhile. Te'o actually would have fit well on the Giants D this year the way he was missing tackles. He also played scared which is not a quality I want to see. ND hype machine as usual took him to a level he never should have been at. Big pass on him as an NFL Mike.

Jughead10
01-08-2013, 09:32 AM
It's not one game as I've been saying this for awhile. Te'o actually would have fit well on the Giants D this year the way he was missing tackles. He also played scared which is not a quality I want to see. ND hype machine as usual took him to a level he never should have been at. Big pass on him as an NFL Mike.

He missed more tackles in one game than he did all season. The whole team was missing tackles and the whole team played scared. It was Kelly's preparation. They would have lost either way, but if they played a different game I think it could have been a better game.

Giantsfan1080
01-08-2013, 09:39 AM
He was engaged against NFL type offensive players and still did nothing. Showed no strength to shed and was chasing down almost every play. It wasn't only the missed tackles. He's still going first round but I couldn't believe he was a Heisman runner up and some people are mocking him into the top 10. He's a late 1st round pick in my book.

Jughead10
01-08-2013, 09:45 AM
He was engaged against NFL type offensive players and still did nothing. Showed no strength to shed and was chasing down almost every play. It wasn't only the missed tackles. He's still going first round but I couldn't believe he was a Heisman runner up and some people are mocking him into the top 10. He's a late 1st round pick in my book.

It's not the first time he's gone up against NFL quality offensive linemen. The schedule wasn't as good as originally anticipated but it wasn't like he was playing a Big East schedule. He was also the Heisman runner up because it was a down year. Otherwise no LB would ever be considered. It was the perfect storm. Big year for him and his team and bad year for other contenders. I don't think he's top 10 either, but only because of the position he plays. But there is no doubt that he'll be a very good starting LB in this league for a long time. I also don't think he fits well in the 3-4, and his level of play this year despite that was impressive.

Giantsfan1080
01-08-2013, 09:52 AM
Who brought up the schedule? I didn't say ND didn't belong in the championship game. When you have a bad argument it's easy to go out of your way and take a pot shot on something that isn't even being argued.

Jughead10
01-08-2013, 09:55 AM
Who brought up the schedule? I didn't say ND didn't belong in the championship game. When you have a bad argument it's easy to go out of your way and take a pot shot on something that isn't even being argued.

I thought that was where you were going when you said he went up against NFL lineman. Like it was the first time he did so because the schedule was bad. That is the way most in the media are portraying it. First time ND played a real team and their players were exposed.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-08-2013, 10:24 AM
That Bama OL reminded me of our god like OL where we can plug any RB and still dominate! We need to get back to that. That's the type of players we need from the bama OL to our OL. Stack the box, and still get a good YPC.

Forenci
01-08-2013, 11:23 AM
He missed more tackles in one game than he did all season. The whole team was missing tackles and the whole team played scared. It was Kelly's preparation. They would have lost either way, but if they played a different game I think it could have been a better game.

What does Kelly's preparation have to do with missing tackles and playing scared? Sounds directly like an issue with the players themselves, not coaching. And why are you bashing Kelly when he just led you do an undefeated regular season?

You guys lost because, in all honesty, Notre Dame was never that good. If GF won't say it, I will, you guys played a pretty easy schedule. It may not have been planned that way but it turned out that way and clearly you guys had no business being in the national championship game.

Te'o is good, but certainly far from a stud as you said earlier. He'll be a solid pro but far from a stud.

Jughead10
01-08-2013, 11:45 AM
What does Kelly's preparation have to do with missing tackles and playing scared? Sounds directly like an issue with the players themselves, not coaching. And why are you bashing Kelly when he just led you do an undefeated regular season?

You guys lost because, in all honesty, Notre Dame was never that good. If GF won't say it, I will, you guys played a pretty easy schedule. It may not have been planned that way but it turned out that way and clearly you guys had no business being in the national championship game.

Te'o is good, but certainly far from a stud as you said earlier. He'll be a solid pro but far from a stud.

Kelly has grown on me. Obviously because of this season, but the game plan was to be super aggressive. That's just not how they play. And that shows me they were scared. It started with the coach and went through the players. The coach basically said we can't beat them playing our game. He was right. They couldn't. But they really couldn't beat them playing the way they did. And it probably made them all look worse than it would have if they just played their normal style.

Who had business being in the National Championship game then? Certainly not anyone else outside the SEC other than Ohio State who obviously could not.

Big_Pete
01-08-2013, 01:43 PM
That Bama OL reminded me of our god like OL where we can plug any RB and still dominate! We need to get back to that. That's the type of players we need from the bama OL to our OL. Stack the box, and still get a good YPC.

I'd like to see us majorly overhaul the oline, but frankly I don't see it.

Snee and Baas aren't going anywhere, we will likely resign Beatty. That leaves RT and LG. I think we are pretty high on Brewer and Moseley at RT. Locklear is likely back as a cheap vet backup.

At LG we will either sign a vet (including Boothe) or we could look to the draft. If its the latter Barrett Jones seems the best fit for an immediate starter.

I guess an OT is possible but not sure they would start early.

Rosebud
01-08-2013, 01:49 PM
Warmack or Warford would be pretty amazing.

Forenci
01-08-2013, 02:12 PM
Kelly has grown on me. Obviously because of this season, but the game plan was to be super aggressive. That's just not how they play. And that shows me they were scared. It started with the coach and went through the players. The coach basically said we can't beat them playing our game. He was right. They couldn't. But they really couldn't beat them playing the way they did. And it probably made them all look worse than it would have if they just played their normal style.

Who had business being in the National Championship game then? Certainly not anyone else outside the SEC other than Ohio State who obviously could not.

I mean, I'm talking purely from a talent standpoint. Clearly because of how things worked out, you guys were the obvious choice but in terms of having the talent to be there you guys had no business at all. The vast majority of the SEC would destroy Notre Dame, as well as other teams like Oregon.

Jughead10
01-08-2013, 02:20 PM
I mean, I'm talking purely from a talent standpoint. Clearly because of how things worked out, you guys were the obvious choice but in terms of having the talent to be there you guys had no business at all. The vast majority of the SEC would destroy Notre Dame, as well as other teams like Oregon.

I think Oregon would be a good game, but I agree with you about the SEC. Can't compete with those athletes. And it's not just Notre Dame. Pretty much everywhere. They are football factories. Bordering on a mockery of the term student athlete in some cases (looking at you LSU). But I still think they played scared from the get go, from all the coaches comments leading into the game and directly before it.

Forenci
01-08-2013, 02:24 PM
I think Oregon would be a good game, but I agree with you about the SEC. Can't compete with those athletes. And it's not just Notre Dame. Pretty much everywhere. They are football factories. Bordering on a mockery of the term student athlete in some cases (looking at you LSU). But I still think they played scared from the get go, from all the coaches comments leading into the game and directly before it.

Meh, that's fine. Playing scared has nothing to do with not tackling properly though.

Jughead10
01-08-2013, 02:30 PM
Meh, that's fine. Playing scared has nothing to do with not tackling properly though.

They were frantically shooting gaps, grasping at legs, praying for a stop at or behind the LOS. That's not how they play. They were far too aggressive. Te'o has never played like that.

Giantsfan1080
01-08-2013, 02:34 PM
Kelly's comments at the half were the best.

Reporter: "How do you get back in this game after half?"
Kelly: "Alabama doesn't come back out."

Game. Blouses.

Jughead10
01-08-2013, 02:37 PM
Kelly's comments at the half were the best.

Reporter: "How do you get back in this game after half?"
Kelly: "Alabama doesn't come back out."

Game. Blouses.

Agreed. He was scared. What he did on offense was even worse than what went on for the defense.

Malaka
01-08-2013, 02:40 PM
I think Oregon would be a good game, but I agree with you about the SEC. Can't compete with those athletes. And it's not just Notre Dame. Pretty much everywhere. They are football factories. Bordering on a mockery of the term student athlete in some cases (looking at you LSU). But I still think they played scared from the get go, from all the coaches comments leading into the game and directly before it.

Dude, there just honestly is no such thing as a student-athlete. I don't want to over-generalize but unfortunately 85% of the kids playing for a top D1 program are there for sports and nothing else.

I go to UVa which is a pretty hard school to get into out of state, and from the players I have met only one actually deserved to get in there academically and he was an in-state walk-on so I don't even think he can count.

Not too long ago I believe Ralph Nader was trying to expose the mockery the NCAA has made of the term student-athlete by getting rid of athletic scholarships and instead paying the players to practice and play games. I don't remember exactly but it was something along those lines.

Anyway, don't feel bad at least the kids on Notre Dame's team who will actually graduate with a very nice degree not so much the kids on Bama's side.

DI
01-08-2013, 04:05 PM
Was wondering what you guys thought about potentially going after Sean Smith this off-season if he hits the open market. Big, physical, young corner who seems agitated, as do many, at the thought of being franchised and it's possible he won't be with Jake Long due for free agency as well.

LTgiants
01-08-2013, 05:23 PM
If there is a way to get him without royally fing up our cap sure go ahead sign him. I liked him coming out of the draft.

Big_Pete
01-08-2013, 06:43 PM
I can't see Long or Smith being viable options.

Long has been franchised and there is serious talk of Sean Smith getting franchised this year. They are going to be well out of our price range.

Malaka
01-09-2013, 06:12 AM
Man... why can't we just fire Fewell. Rob Ryan supposedly has been fired by Dallas, I would much rather prefer him here than the Fewell's sorry ass.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-09-2013, 08:22 AM
I'd like to see us majorly overhaul the oline, but frankly I don't see it.

Snee and Baas aren't going anywhere, we will likely resign Beatty. That leaves RT and LG. I think we are pretty high on Brewer and Moseley at RT. Locklear is likely back as a cheap vet backup.

At LG we will either sign a vet (including Boothe) or we could look to the draft. If its the latter Barrett Jones seems the best fit for an immediate starter.

I guess an OT is possible but not sure they would start early.

There a lot of OL talent. I have my eyes on Jones and Eric fisher OT.

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 01:37 PM
There a lot of OL talent. I have my eyes on Jones and Eric fisher OT.

Those are the two OL I am big on for us.

With his injury and surgery Jones could well be there for us in the 2nd

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 01:45 PM
What is everyone's opinion on our positional coaches last season?

Did they do a good job? Or should guys like Nunn, Hermanns and Giunta deserve some of the blame for their units?

I know the players have born the brunt of the blame, but coaches are meant to put players in situations to make plays and ensure whoever is on the field is ready to play.

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 02:23 PM
I don't know what to make of Teo just yet. Part of him screams mediocre NFL linebacker, then the other part of me says he could be Brian Cushing.

I don't know yet. Don't know what to make of him. I do know we need a damn linebacker, 2 of them actually. It's pathetic, we were 31st in defense in the NFL, we gave up the most yards in team HISTORY last year, and our leading tacklers all came from the secondary. We gave up more YAC than ever before, and it doesn't take an eagle's eyes to see how many missed tackles we had.

What does that tell you? WE NEED LINEBACKERS.

If you're running Cover 2, which unfortunately we are, you can't run a successful umbrella without good linebackers. Linebackers make or break a cover 2 defense.

And we have none.

But it all depends on the board. If a stud road grader is there and he's BPA, then we go OL. But I wouldn't mind linebackers. We desperately need them.

Linebackers are immediate impact players too. They're the running backs of defense. Plug and chug.

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 03:18 PM
I am wondering if the new CBA with it's limits on contact practices, particularly in camp really hurt our ability to develop the physicality and fundamentals like tackling that we normally see from this team?

any thoughts?

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 03:24 PM
I am wondering if the new CBA with it's limits on contact practices, particularly in camp really hurt our ability to develop the physicality and fundamentals like tackling that we normally see from this team?

any thoughts?

I think tackling in general isn't taught in the NFL anymore. Even before the new CBA.

So I think the best approach to take is actively scouting college players who come out of college as sure tacklers. If they already learned how to be great tacklers in college they will translate those skills to the NFL.

I think that's the best way.

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 03:26 PM
I don't know what to make of Teo just yet. Part of him screams mediocre NFL linebacker, then the other part of me says he could be Brian Cushing.

I don't know yet. Don't know what to make of him. I do know we need a damn linebacker, 2 of them actually. It's pathetic, we were 31st in defense in the NFL, we gave up the most yards in team HISTORY last year, and our leading tacklers all came from the secondary. We gave up more YAC than ever before, and it doesn't take an eagle's eyes to see how many missed tackles we had.

What does that tell you? WE NEED LINEBACKERS.

If you're running Cover 2, which unfortunately we are, you can't run a successful umbrella without good linebackers. Linebackers make or break a cover 2 defense.

And we have none.

But it all depends on the board. If a stud road grader is there and he's BPA, then we go OL. But I wouldn't mind linebackers. We desperately need them.

Linebackers are immediate impact players too. They're the running backs of defense. Plug and chug.

We do need linebackers.

I think Rivers and Boley can contribute if we can get both at the right price (Boley needs to take a serious pay cut), plus we have Williams and Herzlich/Paysigner are decent depth/special teams.

I really think we need two quality LBs.
Ideally a 3 down MLB and and a tackling machine WLB with speed and Athleticism (think Derrick Brooks).

BigBlueNorwegian
01-09-2013, 05:52 PM
So we lost our senior pro personell analyst Dave Gettleman to the Panthers, he took their open GM spot. I really haven't heard all that much about this guy, but I'm sure we didn't want to lose him.

Either way, It looks like the only remaining open GM position we should worry about in regards to Marc Ross is the Jets. Man I hope they don't hire him! But it does look like us spreading the word about his sexual orientation is helping *knocks on wood*

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 06:12 PM
We do need linebackers.

I think Rivers and Boley can contribute if we can get both at the right price (Boley needs to take a serious pay cut), plus we have Williams and Herzlich/Paysigner are decent depth/special teams.

I really think we need two quality LBs.
Ideally a 3 down MLB and and a tackling machine WLB with speed and Athleticism (think Derrick Brooks).

I honestly want to move on from Boley. Boley was a good coverage LB, but he was always a poor run stuffer. And now as he's aging his coverage skills are not what they used to be either. JWill can easily replace him for a fraction of the cost.

We need toughness in the LB core. My biggest problem with Boley has always been that he's a finesse LB. I liked Boley, he was great for his role in the team while he was in his prime, but I think during this transition period we should move in a different direction. Let JWill take his old role, and bring in 2 other hardnosed tackling linebackers next to Jacquan.

Rivers is never healthy. Forget him. Why even waste time putting resources in him? Forget him.

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 06:32 PM
I honestly want to move on from Boley. Boley was a good coverage LB, but he was always a poor run stuffer. And now as he's aging his coverage skills are not what they used to be either. JWill can easily replace him for a fraction of the cost.

We need toughness in the LB core. My biggest problem with Boley has always been that he's a finesse LB. I liked Boley, he was great for his role in the team while he was in his prime, but I think during this transition period we should move in a different direction. Let JWill take his old role, and bring in 2 other hardnosed tackling linebackers next to Jacquan.

Rivers is never healthy. Forget him. Why even waste time putting resources in him? Forget him.

I think we need to move on from both Boley and Blackburn.

I think Rivers is worth bringing back cheaply if his health checks out. Williams is another that needs to get healthy.

Thinking about it, I think ideally we need to consider moving on from all the guys who regularly have injury issues. I'd like to see the same guys at the same positons for the bulk of the season and let them develop into cohesive units and establish some consistence; we are changing our lineups far to often I suspect.

I really think we need to look to the draft. I think we need an infusion of talent, most likely through the draft.

I'd like to see us bring some of those intangibles and leadership.

There seems to be quite a lot of WLB options and a few MLB. Do you think Williams could play SLB?

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 06:38 PM
So we lost our senior pro personell analyst Dave Gettleman to the Panthers, he took their open GM spot. I really haven't heard all that much about this guy, but I'm sure we didn't want to lose him.

Either way, It looks like the only remaining open GM position we should worry about in regards to Marc Ross is the Jets. Man I hope they don't hire him! But it does look like us spreading the word about his sexual orientation is helping *knocks on wood*

Dave Gettleman was the Giants' senior pro personnel analyst this past season, following 13 years as the director of pro personnel. I think he has played a key role behind the scenes with building our team.

I do hope it means we retain Marc Ross (though there is still the Jets).

What this does show though is the quality of our front office staff.

scottyboy
01-09-2013, 06:56 PM
we need to eventually upgrade from Blackburn but to say we need to "move on" is pretty false. He's an asset at this point and in all honesty, behind JPP, may be our 2 most valuable player in the front 7. As awful as that sounds, it may be true.

JWill needs to stay healthy. that's my concern with him

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 06:59 PM
I want to keep Chase. As a backup.

I just want a makeover on defense. Too many old guys. We need some youth in there.

On offense I just want a OG and maybe an OT. This should be a defense heavy draft unless a great OL prospect falls in our laps.

scottyboy
01-09-2013, 07:06 PM
I want to keep Chase. As a backup.

I just want a makeover on defense. Too many old guys. We need some youth in there.

On offense I just want a OG and maybe an OT. This should be a defense heavy draft unless a great OL prospect falls in our laps.

See, we have no other options over Chase at this point though and if we bring in young guys, Chase is the guy to get them in position and get comfy in the D. Let's upgrade around him because Boley's missed tackles and lack of block sheeding an the nonexistance of our front 4 killed this D more than anything

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 07:09 PM
See, we have no other options over Chase at this point though and if we bring in young guys, Chase is the guy to get them in position and get comfy in the D. Let's upgrade around him because Boley's missed tackles and lack of block sheeding an the nonexistance of our front 4 killed this D more than anything

Chase was pretty terrible too Scotty.

He was only good when the front 4 was playing out of their mind and he had wide open lanes to the RB. But who wouldn't do well in that situation?

If a Bobby Wagner type MIKE prospect is there in round 2 and we pass on him, I'd be pretty upset.

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 07:11 PM
If a Bobby Wagner type MIKE prospect is there in round 2 and we pass on him, I'd be pretty upset.

What are your thoughts on Arthur Brown? could he play mike for us?

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 07:14 PM
What are your thoughts on Arthur Brown? could he play mike for us?

Still looking at him. I'll have my evaluations done later in the year. I don't watch much if any college football so it takes time for me.

I do like his tackling. That was one thing that stood out to me.

The LB from Penn State intrigues me too.

scottyboy
01-09-2013, 07:21 PM
Chase was pretty terrible too Scotty.

He was only good when the front 4 was playing out of their mind and he had wide open lanes to the RB. But who wouldn't do well in that situation?

If a Bobby Wagner type MIKE prospect is there in round 2 and we pass on him, I'd be pretty upset.

I wouldn't say terrible. And the fact he was the ONLY one the coaches consistently raved about s something being overlooked. We need someone on the field to be the general.

And there are no Bobby Wagner types. Greene and Brown are the 2 best LBers (4-3) in this draft and they're both outside guys IMO

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 07:25 PM
I wouldn't say terrible. And the fact he was the ONLY one the coaches consistently raved about s something being overlooked. We need someone on the field to be the general.

And there are no Bobby Wagner types. Greene and Brown are the 2 best LBers (4-3) in this draft and they're both outside guys IMO

We don't know that yet. Bobby Wagner wasn't Bobby Wagner at this point last year.

You gotta give em a chance. There's always good value at LB in round 2 and 3.

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 07:25 PM
Still looking at him. I'll have my evaluations done later in the year. I don't watch much if any college football so it takes time for me.

I do like his tackling. That was one thing that stood out to me.

The LB from Penn State intrigues me too.

First and foremost I want LBs who can tackle.

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 07:26 PM
First and foremost I want LBs who can tackle.

I'm making that my main point of focus with every defensive player I evaluate in the back 7 this year.

Rosebud
01-09-2013, 07:27 PM
Thing is our DL isn't going to dominate without some fresh blood at DE and another DT. If our DL can't dominate doesn't matter how bad our LBs are. But if we do bring in a rookie like Jordan, Ansah or any of a slew of quality pass rushers in this draft, with JPP, Kiwi and Ojomo, and draft a DT to push Canty and Joseph our DL could dominate again. Then JWill, Chase and some middling FA or third round LB could be more than enough.

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 07:28 PM
And there are no Bobby Wagner types. Greene and Brown are the 2 best LBers (4-3) in this draft and they're both outside guys IMO

I'm note sure on Brown yet, he played inside in college and he is around 6'1 230 so he is already similar size to guys like Vilma, Beason and Ryans.
With a good predraft workout regime, he could probably add 5-10lb of muscle without too much hassle.

bigbluedefense
01-09-2013, 07:31 PM
Thing is our DL isn't going to dominate without some fresh blood at DE and another DT. If our DL can't dominate doesn't matter how bad our LBs are. But if we do bring in a rookie like Jordan, Ansah or any of a slew of quality pass rushers in this draft, with JPP, Kiwi and Ojomo, and draft a DT to push Canty and Joseph our DL could dominate again. Then JWill, Chase and some middling FA or third round LB could be more than enough.

Well ideally we get a DLmen. But in the event that a guy isn't there for us, why not evaluate LBs?

We're not gonna fill all our needs this year. But I want BPA in a need. So I rather get a guy who's a high graded LB vs just taking a DLmen just to get one.

It really depends on the board.

scottyboy
01-09-2013, 07:34 PM
I'm note sure on Brown yet, he played inside in college and he is around 6'1 230 so he is already similar size to guys like Vilma, Beason and Ryans.
With a good predraft workout regime, he could probably add 5-10lb of muscle without too much hassle.

I love love love love Brown. He probably can play MLB but I think he's best suited outside.

but yeah, I'm with Rose. I'm all about the fresh blood up front. it's desperately needed.

But then, you know. Khaseem.

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 07:37 PM
Thing is our DL isn't going to dominate without some fresh blood at DE and another DT. If our DL can't dominate doesn't matter how bad our LBs are. But if we do bring in a rookie like Jordan, Ansah or any of a slew of quality pass rushers in this draft, with JPP, Kiwi and Ojomo, and draft a DT to push Canty and Joseph our DL could dominate again. Then JWill, Chase and some middling FA or third round LB could be more than enough.

We need immediate impact on the DL and really can't wait for a rookie to impact imho.

I's like to see a couple of good value free agents. The type of guys I have in mind are

DE Michael Bennett (who will reportedly give a discount to play here), I would bring him in to compete with Tuck and getting a fair share of the LDE reps.
Kiwi is strictly a RDE imho and should do a similar rotation at RDE with JPP. We still have Tracy, Trattou and Ojomo to compete for a spot.

As for DT, I'd look at Glenn Dorsey, who could rotate with Joseph at UT; we have decent youngsters in Kuhn nd maybe Austin. I'd be ok with bringing someone cheap like Sammie Lee Hill or Sedrick Ellis into the mix as well.

scottyboy
01-09-2013, 07:54 PM
I also like michael buchanan out of illinois at DE. perhaps a 2nd round guy.

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 07:58 PM
I also like michael buchanan out of illinois at DE. perhaps a 2nd round guy.

With the DE depth this year, he is currently somewhere around the 3rd/4th round at the moment. That could change if he blows up the predraft process.

Rosebud
01-09-2013, 08:33 PM
If we are relying on a Bennett/Tuck platoon opposite JPP, kid's gunna get shut down again next year. Tuck needs to be gone and Kiwi needs to be platooning with a gifted rookie. Sure if we can get Dorsey cheap then we'd be all right on the inside, but I doubt we do much in FA.

Big_Pete
01-09-2013, 09:24 PM
If we are relying on a Bennett/Tuck platoon opposite JPP, kid's gunna get shut down again next year. Tuck needs to be gone and Kiwi needs to be platooning with a gifted rookie. Sure if we can get Dorsey cheap then we'd be all right on the inside, but I doubt we do much in FA.

From everything Jerry Reese is saying, it isn't likely that Tuck is gone

(unless Reese is trying to build up Tuck's trade value).

I don't think a rookie, whatever his talent, is going to get enough reps to make a difference, particularly if he has to compete with Kiwanuka for rotational snaps.

You only have to look at how much Pierre-Paul played as a rookie.

Rosebud
01-09-2013, 09:38 PM
JPP actually had a big impact as a rookie. Someone like Jordan or Ansah could certainly make an impact rotating with Kiwi.

Giantsfan1080
01-10-2013, 07:27 AM
If we are relying on a Bennett/Tuck platoon opposite JPP, kid's gunna get shut down again next year. Tuck needs to be gone and Kiwi needs to be platooning with a gifted rookie. Sure if we can get Dorsey cheap then we'd be all right on the inside, but I doubt we do much in FA.

JPP needs to do his own thing regardless of who's on the other side. A Tuck/Bennett platoon is plenty good.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-10-2013, 11:38 AM
JPP needs to do his own thing regardless of who's on the other side. A Tuck/Bennett platoon is plenty good.



Yeah that was from the Reese presser about JPP learning to be productive and do well even.when teams are doubling and chipping him!

Rosebud
01-10-2013, 11:48 AM
We need more from JPP but we also need more from the other side otherwise no matter how well JPP does our defense won't be able to beast when we need them. I'll be very disappointed if we don't take advantage of this stacked DE draft and get ourselves a new huge ceilinged DE.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 11:54 AM
JPP's issues were multiple:

1. He simply hit a wall. It happens with raw players. He needs to learn how to adjust to the extra blockers.

2. He put on too much weight this offseason. Fewell wanted to use him inside a lot to alter passing lanes so he packed on weight to do so, but also lost a lot of burst in the process

3. We're putting too much on his plate. Let's be real about something here, JPP is a dumb dude. Why are we moving him around so much? Just let him play at RE, and let him ball. He clearly is at his best when he plays RE. Sometimes coaches overthink things. Stop trying to outsmart everybody on every play, and just put your players in their best positions to succeed. Let the athletes make you look smart instead of trying to constantly reinvent the wheel.

JPP needs to stay at RE all 3 downs, and he needs to get back to his 2011 weight so he can maximize his potential regarding that.

I hope the coaching staff realizes this. With Osi gone, there's no reason why JPP shouldn't be at RE all 3 downs this coming season.

Malaka
01-10-2013, 01:35 PM
If Bennett comes on the cheap because of Marty I am all for it.

I like Michael Bennett, I actually think he is Tampa's best DE, and he would be an upgrade over Tuck's walking cadaver and probably over Kiwi full time at LE.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 01:47 PM
Eh, I want my DEs to be elite. I don't want to invest in a DE if he's not a study or potentially a stud. That's why I like drafting athletes at DE and building our pass rush that way.

Malaka
01-10-2013, 01:53 PM
Eh, I want my DEs to be elite. I don't want to invest in a DE if he's not a study or potentially a stud. That's why I like drafting athletes at DE and building our pass rush that way.

I agree, but Bennett will likely just be a stop-gap till we either find or develop that elite guy. I think we can offer both Bennetts similar deals for similar years and it should not be too expensive.

Tuck is worthless, and Kiwi is a good platoon guy. I don't think Kiwi would be able to start at RE let alone LE and be an every down guy. Bennett would be able to play LE, which he plays in Tampa, and be efficient while we are developing, say, an Ansah from this draft, or if we have to wait for a freak in next years draft.

This will also keep Marty B happy who is quickly becoming one my favorite Giants. This would also do as you say, allow JPP to play at RE not LE, which is something I agree with.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 01:56 PM
I agree, but Bennett will likely just be a stop-gap till we either find or develop that elite guy. I think we can offer both Bennetts similar deals for similar years and it should not be too expensive.

Tuck is worthless, and Kiwi is a good platoon guy. I don't think Kiwi would be able to start at RE let alone LE and be an every down guy. Bennett would be able to play LE, which he plays in Tampa, and be efficient while we are developing, say, an Ansah from this draft, or if we have to wait for a freak in next years draft.

This will also keep Marty B happy who is quickly becoming one my favorite Giants. This would also do as you say, allow JPP to play at RE not LE, which is something I agree with.

Why not just play Kiwi? Kiwi can play LE, he's very long and has always used his great length to be effective vs the run. I don't see how Bennett is any upgrade over Kiwi and we save money by just going with Kiwi.

That will also give whatever rookie we draft more snaps in his rookie year as he develops.

Malaka
01-10-2013, 02:27 PM
Why not just play Kiwi? Kiwi can play LE, he's very long and has always used his great length to be effective vs the run. I don't see how Bennett is any upgrade over Kiwi and we save money by just going with Kiwi.

That will also give whatever rookie we draft more snaps in his rookie year as he develops.

I love Kiwi. But if there is one player the Giants coaching staff developed poorly it was him.

I just don't know if he can play LE effectively. Yeah he's long but he's been looking more and more like a linebacker every year. I guess if we platoon him with Tuck, Kiwi should be fine, but Tuck just doesn't do anything anymore. He barely even tries. I don't want a player like that on the field. I just feel like a move to bring back Tuck is just wrong, he loafs around too much and even the game he does decide to bring it, he has not been that great anyway. If were gonna be loyal to the guy he better be coming back dirt cheap.

Even if Kiwi CAN play LE, I still think Bennett could play it better. I do not believe we should break bank on this guy, but if he's a bargain we better nab him.

I don't care about rookie snaps. Coughlin won't give the rookie snaps regardless. Unless there is no other option like in Wilson's case. I am not worried we seem to always develop our top picks fine. Our later round picks are usually lackluster.

2007: Ross (Solid starter/nickel), Steve Smith (Great until injury)
2008: Kenny Philips (Starting Safety), Terrell Thomas (Great until injury)
2009: Hakeem Nicks (Starting receiver), Clint Sintim (BUST), William Beatty (looked like a bust till this year)
2010: JPP and Linval defensive starters.
2011: Prince (looking good), Austin (looking bad)

JR is money in the first two rounds, especially round 1, his worst pick is Ross and he was still a solid player and super bowl winner. If we draft a DE in round 1 I am not worried he'll be fine. The reps won't matter as long as JR picked him and Coughlin is the coach.

It's after round 2 where JR becomes mortal again. He's got some gems like Bradshaw, Boss, Ballard (UDFA), Cruz (UDFA), Manningham. But he has alot of questionable picks as well... Bomar, Woodson, Beckum, those two corners in 09' we cut almost immediately.

I am not doubt spoiled as he is a fantastic GM, but again... this is the Giants were talking about... rookies don't play... rookie snaps are irrelevant.

Rosebud
01-10-2013, 02:40 PM
Eh, most of the picks that don't work out still made sense at the time, even if hindsight proves that they would not work out. Like Bomar, Woodson, Beckum, Sintim, Barden, etc.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2013, 02:43 PM
I don't want Tuck back either but he's coming back unfortunately. I can only hope that he comes back as a 3rd down interior pass rush specialist only. That's what I hope for.

But realistically we're starting Tuck at LE again next year. Which sucks but what can ya do.

Malaka
01-10-2013, 02:52 PM
Eh, most of the picks that don't work out still made sense at the time, even if hindsight proves that they would not work out. Like Bomar, Woodson, Beckum, Sintim, Barden, etc.

No I agree. Except with the Woodson and Bomar picks... I didn't like those but I get we were looking for a back-up.

I was just emphasizing how great he is in round 1.

Other than Bradshaw (and if you count Cruz) none of his later selections have really been crucial to the team. Boss was nice but replaceable.

Forenci
01-10-2013, 02:53 PM
I think people fail to realize just how rare it is to hit on good players beyond the first few rounds. Happens every year, but dramatically so by any means.

The big thing these days is finding those small school guys and scouting them. They have started to make a big impact in the NFL.

Big_Pete
01-10-2013, 02:58 PM
Just a thought

If we are unable to afford to resign Kenny Phillips, is it worth putting the franchise tage on him and trading him, perhaps for a 2nd round pick?

The safety free agency group and draft class doesn't have a lot of elite talent, I could see teams like Miami, Cincinnati and St Louis being interested.

Big_Pete
01-10-2013, 03:48 PM
Here is an article I found on the Seahawks defence

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/5/7/2999852/on-seahawks-defensive-scheme-versatility-diversity

I really wish we played something like this.

CowboysBeastMode
01-10-2013, 07:07 PM
Just a thought

If we are unable to afford to resign Kenny Phillips, is it worth putting the franchise tage on him and trading him, perhaps for a 2nd round pick?

The safety free agency group and draft class doesn't have a lot of elite talent, I could see teams like Miami, Cincinnati and St Louis being interested.this is the best safety class since 2010, idt cincy would give up a draft pick for an often injured player if they could a young safety like vacarro or elam

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 11:22 AM
I want Kenny back anyway. He's the most important player in our secondary.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2013, 11:54 AM
I want Kenny back anyway. He's the most important player in our secondary.

Unfortunately I don't expect him back.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 12:07 PM
Why not? I don't think he'll be that expensive.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2013, 12:32 PM
Given his injury history I think we lowball him and some other team with more space than us will be willing to give him more up front money. He's not tied to NYC either as I read an interview and he basically doesn't care where he ends up.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 12:43 PM
Well that really sucks. He's gonna be a huge blow to our team.

Rolle is not a good FS. He's a good box safety and he's a good nickel CB, but he can't play FS, he's very average in that role.

Hill will be a very good SS, but we're gonna give up a lot of big plays without Kenny.

Going with Rolle and Hill at safety will hurt us a little. I'm also not sold yet on Hosely to hold down the nickel CB spot, and Webster will only get worse as he ages, so we have some serious issues in our secondary.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2013, 01:10 PM
I want him to stay but that's all just my opinion. Hope I'm wrong.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2013, 01:51 PM
Why not? I don't think he'll be that expensive.

There was an article stating he was annoyed with the medical staff on how they went about his knee treatment, and the system supposedly, he wasn't thrilled with.

I can see him not wanting to come back here.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 01:52 PM
We need to cut fat off our roster to open up money to keep him. If we restructure/cut Canty, restructure Rolle, cut/restructure CWeb, etc we can free up enough money to keep him I think.

His knees won't just scare us. It'll scare every team interested. Maybe seeing what happened to Steve Smith will make him think twice about leaving. Hopefully.

Either way, this is shaping up to be a major rebuilding year for us if things play out the way I think they may

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2013, 01:57 PM
Oh yeah, this is a big test or exam for Reese in terms of free agency and roster management. Let's be honest, Reese shines in the draft process but still needs to improve with the roster aspect. The Steve Smith situation was a mess and losing Ballard was a god awful. So Reese still has room for improvement and this will be a big, big off season. Making bad decisions could really set us back.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2013, 01:59 PM
The Smith situation wasn't really his fault and it turned out he was right anyway.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 02:00 PM
Oh yeah, this is a big test or exam for Reese in terms of free agency and roster management. Let's be honest, Reese shines in the draft process but still needs to improve with the roster aspect. The Steve Smith situation was a mess and losing Ballard was a god awful. So Reese still has room for improvement and this will be a big, big off season. Making bad decisions could really set us back.

Huh? The Steve Smith situation helped us win a SB. And we upgraded from Ballard.

His roster management is one of his strongest traits.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 02:01 PM
In fact you can make an argument that he's actually starting to become overrated as a drafter.

His ability to find bargain FAs to fill out the roster is actually his best attribute.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2013, 02:02 PM
Huh? The Steve Smith situation helped us win a SB. And we upgraded from Ballard.

His roster management is one of his strongest traits.

No, I mean the contract aspect. And how their side felt that we were waiting too long in offering Smith a contract, hence the whole tweet by Smith on how the Eagles WANTED him more

Yeah, we upgraded from Ballard, but we had too because Reese botched it up. So much so Coughlin was livid, and basically had to watch what he said in answering media questions after it happened.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2013, 02:07 PM
Well all that drafting stuff means is that things changed once he became GM and hired Ross. Things were fine when Reese was director of college scouting, and our best draft, 2007 class, when when we pulled double duty. He balled out when he was GM AND his old job.

Reese now has handed the keys to Ross so all complaints have to hit him. I actually want Reese to do both jobs if possible. That's when we hit a home run.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2013, 02:26 PM
Reese screwed up the Douglas thing this year also. I'm hoping that doesn't come back to bite us.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 02:42 PM
He didn't screw that up. Douglas didn't do a damn thing for any other team either.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2013, 02:43 PM
He didn't screw that up. Douglas didn't do a damn thing for any other team either.

Well he's still raw as a player but he had a Cruz like camp. There was no reason to have Beckum on the roster this year. That should have been a spot for Douglas.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 02:49 PM
Well he's still raw as a player but he had a Cruz like camp. There was no reason to have Beckum on the roster this year. That should have been a spot for Douglas.

I don't know man. I think you're overrating him. We were guilty of overrating our depth at WR and LB this past offseason. All of those backups are jags at best.

Our WR core is thin now too. Barden is gone, and beyond Nicks, Cruz, and Randle, we have nothing. Jernigan is our 4, and he sucks. Nothing after him.

Hixon is done. Love the guy, but he's done.

I'd like to see us develop a TE. Adrian Robinson, I completely forgot he was even on the team. He needs to show something this training camp.

3 guys that desperately need to show us something this training camp are Adrien Robinson, Marvin Austin, and James Brewer.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2013, 02:52 PM
Fine even if you don't care for Douglas we wasted a roster spot all year on Beckum. He should have been IR'ed. Instead he was active for one game and then continually sat even though he never was going to play because of the injury. Bad roster management.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2013, 02:53 PM
Reese screwed up the Douglas thing this year also. I'm hoping that doesn't come back to bite us.

Yeah I hated that as well. I know Eric from BBI, and I shared that view. I had forgot about that. Good call man!

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 02:56 PM
It wasn't really bad roster management though bc it's not like Douglas was any good either. He'd also never see the field and would never make an impact. At least we've seen Beckum do it in the past in spurts. What has Douglas done?

It's not like he went to some other team and pulled a Danny Amendola on us. He hasn't done ****. So what's the big deal?

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2013, 02:58 PM
He's a rookie. Just because he hasn't done anything yet doesn't mean he won't in the future. Cruz didn't do anything his rookie year either. Beckum was clearly never back from injury so once his PUP time was up he should have went right to IR. The gamble they took to activate was a mistake. Roster spots are like golid in the NFL you know that.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 03:00 PM
Wait, Douglas was the white dude right?

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2013, 03:05 PM
Yes, LOL. He was the white dude.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 03:07 PM
Yeah he wasn't gonna do ****.

Jughead10
01-11-2013, 03:10 PM
Yeah he wasn't gonna do ****.

Maybe..... The point is we are all painfully aware that Beckum wasn't going to do **** and hasn't done **** in what 4 years now? Might as well take a chance on the unknown.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2013, 03:12 PM
Promising talent and would have been a great roster move considering Beckum is now useless and gone, Barden gone, and perhaps Hixon. So you promote and develop him, plug R.R., and see what this kid can do.

That's how you build a team. Instead you stash a kid who has promise, and lose him. All for what? Barden? Beckum?

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 03:14 PM
That's true. I guess I was hoping Beckum could somewhat make up for the lack of a #3 WR on the roster but he just never did anything.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2013, 03:25 PM
What was his niche? Reese said in cold weather he could be the 3rd down guy for short and intermediate routes. He was useless for so long, and then became useless and a china doll. Barden is useless and now will leave this team. Hixon is gone too. And a promising talent gets snatched off the PS.

So basically like I said, Reese in the GM capacity of roster management has a lot to do to equal his reputation in drafting and scouting.

Jughead10
01-11-2013, 03:26 PM
Speaking of white WRs.....does anyone else get mad when they see Kevin Walter still playing for the Texans 10 years later?

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2013, 03:30 PM
No, because some guys leave and do well. We had Wake come in too and he left. We didn't want them or think much of them, and they did well. What angers is when we see talent, and try to keep the talent and they get poached or because of roster mismanagement we loss a Jake Ballard, or Douglas, or Steve Smith because we try to low ball or wait in offering a contract.

Sadly, that's a growing pain we are living through with Reese.

Jughead10
01-11-2013, 03:32 PM
Forgot Wake. Since the Dolphins have been terrible, their games aren't televised as much. Texans have gotten a lot more coverage lately.

I just always think that we had to keep Tim Carter's worthless ass for so long but Kevin Walter is still catching balls in this league. F'ing Fassell.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2013, 04:08 PM
Yeah Fasshole and Accorsi was a dreadful GM and HC talent evaluators.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2013, 06:01 PM
Yeah I know Ernie gets a lot of love by most Giant fans but I didn't think much of him. He was a mediocre GM.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2013, 06:06 PM
I agree, in fact, I will go one step further and say I never liked him. Barely over .500 as a GM here, and the drafting with Fasshole was pathetic!

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2013, 06:21 PM
Well he got us Eli so for that alone we owe him.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2013, 07:27 PM
That's his legacy and a great one. He went ALL IN and won that hand. So he gets 1000000% credit for that. But when he worked with Fasshole, and Marv Sutherland our drafts stunk! Then Sutherland left and we promoted Reese. Our drafts got better. Then Fasshole got fired, and we had EA, Coughlin, and Reese, that was the jackpot!

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2013, 09:18 PM
Speaking of white WRs.....does anyone else get mad when they see Kevin Walter still playing for the Texans 10 years later?

Two words. Jamaar Taylor.

Giantsfan1080
01-11-2013, 09:19 PM
That's his legacy and a great one. He went ALL IN and won that hand. So he gets 1000000% credit for that. But when he worked with Fasshole, and Marv Sutherland our drafts stunk! Then Sutherland left and we promoted Reese. Our drafts got better. Then Fasshole got fired, and we had EA, Coughlin, and Reese, that was the jackpot!

When did Reese take over as director of college scouting?

NY+Giants=NYG
01-12-2013, 09:50 AM
When did Reese take over as director of college scouting?

After the Shockey draft Sutherland retired and then Reese got promoted. Obviously coaching can be added going from Fasshole to Coughlin.


It went George Young - Tom Boisture

EA - Marv Sutherland

EA - Jerry Reese

Jerry Reese - Jerry Reese '07

Jerry Reese - Marc Ross


For example, EA, Fasshole, Sutherland < EA, Coughlin, Reese

BaLLiN
01-12-2013, 12:14 PM
what do you guys think about mike jenkins and antoine cason?

Big_Pete
01-13-2013, 01:54 PM
what do you guys think about mike jenkins and antoine cason?

Either would be decent at the right price, I don't mind Cason. But I think they will be too expensive, I would rather use the $$ to resign Phillips.

Webster may not be quite the player he used to be, but he is still solid. I think he will take a sizeable pay cut (perhaps a contract extension, converting a lot of his $7m salary into bonuses)

Other than that we will likely add cb depth in the draft.

Our priorities should be upgrading the OL and LB group and bolstering depth at CB and DL

Big_Pete
01-13-2013, 04:54 PM
I think I have been guilty of under-estimating our offensive line. Sure it needs some tweaking, but it actually performed quite well.

Here is some interesting stats from 2012:

The Giants scored 429 points, the second-highest in team history after the 448 scored by the 1963 Giants. (35 points more than they scored during the 2011 regular season).

Manning was only sacked 19 times, down from 28 in 2011

The rushing attack improved to a respectable 14th (116.4 yds/game) from 32nd (89.2 yds/game) in 2011

Certainly there are a lot of factors in play and play of Hynoski, Bennett and Pascoe certainly helped, but perhaps people (including me) have under estimated how our line played, particularly as they battled injuries most of the year.

Sure we could use improve the talent on the line, but it isn't like we need a major re-tooling.

OSUGiants17
01-13-2013, 10:25 PM
Anyone know of a site where I can get a Giants throwback jersey like this one:
http://www.sportsblink.com/product_images/lawrence-taylor-new-york-giants-blue-nfl-premier-throwback-jersey-3148971.jpg

only with a current player on it? I am looking everywhere and I don't think I can get one anywhere

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 12:09 PM
I think the frustrating part for me, as I watch these playoffs is knowing that had the Giants just got in the door, they could have done some damage.

Now I'm not saying they'd be in the CG, but I wouldn't count them out of it either.

Blown opportunity. Bc this team was sniffing its own ass too much this season, with Tuck being the ringleader of it.

I was really hoping we'd cut Tuck this offseason but looks like we're stuck with his "leadership" for one more year.

Rosebud
01-14-2013, 12:33 PM
I really hope we get a high end rookie DE who, with Kiwi, can really push Tuck for PT so that on days Tuck doesn't feel like playing we just won't play him as much, and on days where he actually shows up, we can utilize him.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 12:34 PM
Tuck has 1 more year on his contract. I don't see him getting an extension. I'd like to use him strictly as a 3rd down interior pass rusher moving forward, but that's unrealistic to expect. He's gonna loaf around all 3 downs and take plays off just like this year. Coughlin won't bench him or put him in a smaller role bc of his influence in the lockerroom.

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2013, 12:37 PM
The swipes at Tuck's leadership are nonsense. You send like one of those moron beatwriters going after Eli.

bigbluedefense
01-14-2013, 12:39 PM
It's not nonsense at all. Leadership is leading by example. Loafing around, not playing hard, constantly making excuses after losses, the whole "we've been here before I'm not concerned" nonsense coming out of his mouth etc is not leadership.

It's ridiculous. He only got his ass in gear last year after the real leader of our defense, Rolle, called his ass out.

Remember when you weren't concerned about the team's play? How did that turn out? Sometimes when you see something talk, walk and act like a duck, it's a duck.

Tuck simply isn't a leader, show me how he is.