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Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 04:59 PM
Smith has also done 1000x more in his career than Taylor. Right now Barden is more like Taylor and our other old friend Tim Carter.

LTgiants
08-10-2011, 05:02 PM
I wasnt compairing their careers to each other. Rather with the knee concern's that we have with Smith after seeing what happened with Taylor.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 05:15 PM
Beckum injured his hammy at practice today.

OSUGiants17
08-10-2011, 05:17 PM
Beckum injured his hammy at practice today.

Hahaha you're funny.....wait you're not joking....oh.....this sucks :l

Forenci
08-10-2011, 05:19 PM
Beckum injured his hammy at practice today.

Brb, going to go see if I can get a try out with the Giants at TE.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 05:23 PM
It gets worse fellas. Rumor making it's way around BBI that Smith perhaps is going to sign with the Eagles. I'll be sick if it's true, for real I'll be so ******* upset/pissed.

Forenci
08-10-2011, 05:52 PM
I would be furious if that happened. I hope it's just rumor.

LTgiants
08-10-2011, 05:54 PM
Its Official He is a Eagle.

Forenci
08-10-2011, 05:56 PM
God ******* damn this bull ****. How do you let this **** happen? I'd love to know who ****** this one up so bad.

Malaka
08-10-2011, 06:02 PM
What the ****.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 06:06 PM
Un fu-cking believable

Malaka
08-10-2011, 06:10 PM
Is JR trying to go into rebuild mode or what? I don't understand this. The only way I can possibly condone this is if Smith is truly done, and totally can't make a comeback. Someone has got to step up.

WTF Jerry!

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 06:15 PM
Is JR trying to go into rebuild mode or what? I don't understand this. The only way I can possibly condone this is if Smith is truly done, and totally can't make a comeback. Someone has got to step up.

WTF Jerry!

But the Eagles could take a chance and we couldn't? It makes no sense.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 06:17 PM
Better sign Cotchery.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 06:23 PM
But the Eagles could take a chance and we couldn't? It makes no sense.

Of course it does. We aren't going to over pay when we don't have tons of cap room. We are not going to break the bank for a player who is not 100% and may never be back to full form.

Same with Boss.. We are not overpaying for avg talent in this specific instance. Reese and Marc Ross trust their scouting skills. Now it's up to a veteran offensive coaching staff to give a better look to Cruz, Hixon, Darius R, and JJ.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 06:23 PM
Keeps getting worse:

But someone informed of the Eagles' thinking said the results of their examinations were "pretty good." The person, who requested anonymity because the team hasn't spoken about Smith's medical issues, said the Eagles expect Smith to contribute "early in the season."

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 06:24 PM
Of course it does. We aren't going to over pay when we don't have tons of cap room. We are not going to break the bank for a player who is not 100% and may never be back to full form.

Same with Boss.. We are not overpaying for avg talent in this specific instance. Reese and Marc Ross trust their scouting skills. Now it's up to a veteran offensive coaching staff to give a better look to Cruz, Hixon, Darius R, and JJ.

Are you kidding me???? Overpay 2 mil guaranteed and 4 mil overall is not overpaying. Reese took a major major hit in my eyes here. And Smith is not average talent. He was our best WR with Eli until Nicks came on board and is a player who's not replaceable.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 06:31 PM
Are you kidding me???? Overpay 2 mil guaranteed and 4 mil overall is not overpaying. Reese took a major major hit in my eyes here. And Smith is not average talent. He was our best WR with Eli until Nicks came on board and is a player who's not replaceable.

Am I kidding you? No! Well clearly we weren't going to give Smith what he wanted when his knee is in question. Give props to the Eagles for taking a risk, which is evident by their moves this off season.

Clearly, now we will have to move on without him. With a veteran staff, I expect us to add more things to compensate. Now we can focus on locking Mario Manningham long term then.

Let this season play out before we see what losing Smith does. We still have lots of time to make schematic adjustments and get a good look at who can step in.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 06:36 PM
Plus it's a one year deal. If his knee checks out, I am guessing he probably will hit the market again. If anything we can always try to re-sign him. If not, I wish him the best.

But credit the Eagles for being ballsy, and going all in this offseason. We will have to have our existing guys step up now.

BigBlueNorwegian
08-10-2011, 06:39 PM
This isn't happening. Someone wake me up from this nightmare now! Steve Smith in an Eagles uniform. UGH!

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 06:41 PM
You're a good guy and I don't want to argue about this right now so I'm just going to leave it alone.

Jughead10
08-10-2011, 06:45 PM
Am I kidding you? No! Well clearly we weren't going to give Smith what he wanted when his knee is in question. Give props to the Eagles for taking a risk, which is evident by their moves this off season.

Clearly, now we will have to move on without him. With a veteran staff, I expect us to add more things to compensate. Now we can focus on locking Mario Manningham long term then.

Let this season play out before we see what losing Smith does. We still have lots of time to make schematic adjustments and get a good look at who can step in.

Locking up Manningham long term is something I would not put a high priority on.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 06:46 PM
Locking up Manningham long term is something I would not put a high priority on.

For real the NFLDC Giants fan whipping boy for the last 3 years becomes a high priority all of a sudden? Reese should have had his head out of his ass and had Smith signed long term 2 years ago.

bigbluedefense
08-10-2011, 06:46 PM
I'm so angry I'm shaking. WTF Reese. This is his first major blunder as GM.

I don't care how you try to sugarcoat this, you're telling me we couldn't fork over 4 mill, 2 mill guaranteed?

BULL F'IN ****.

Reese totally screwed himself over bc of this. I understand not wanting to pay big money for a possession receiver, but this is a big blow regardless of how you try to sugarcoat it.

bigbluedefense
08-10-2011, 06:47 PM
I WANT RANDY MOSS DAMMIT!

I'm not even joking anymore. Get Moss.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 06:47 PM
Locking up Manningham long term is something I would not put a high priority on.

I would if he has another season like last year. Who else plays Z? He is our homerun threat. If he walks, we have only one credible WR who is our X.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 06:47 PM
I'm so angry I'm shaking. WTF Reese. This is his first major blunder as GM.

I don't care how you try to sugarcoat this, you're telling me we couldn't fork over 4 mill, 2 mill guaranteed?

BULL F'IN ****.

Reese totally screwed himself over bc of this. I understand not wanting to pay big money for a possession receiver, but this is a big blow regardless of how you try to sugarcoat it.

I'm with you big time!!! My favorite player just went to the ******* Eagles because we were cheap as ****.

bigbluedefense
08-10-2011, 06:49 PM
Look at the schematics of it. We're done. Philly is going to kill us now.

You put Nmandi on Nicks. He's done.

Even if you think Asante sucks, you can double up Mario. Done.

DRC on our slot. Done.

Do you even have to cover our TE? Done.

Who the hell is Eli gonna throw the ball to? We're done.


Get Moss. That evens the playing field.

bigbluedefense
08-10-2011, 06:51 PM
I'm with you big time!!! My favorite player just went to the ******* Eagles because we were cheap as ****.

I didn't think my hatred for the Eagles, the city of Philadelphia, and the state of Pennsylvania could ever grow any more.

But it just ****** grew like a tumor. I'm so angry right now.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 06:51 PM
Look at the schematics of it. We're done. Philly is going to kill us now.

You put Nmandi on Nicks. He's done.

Even if you think Asante sucks, you can double up Mario. Done.

DRC on our slot. Done.

Do you even have to cover our TE? Done.

Who the hell is Eli gonna throw the ball to? We're done.


Get Moss. That evens the playing field.



Dude, let the season play out. Our OL needs to create holes to run the ball. From there we go, it's not like we are the Browns or some scumbag last place team.

Let's see how our draft picks pan out and how they can be used before we go with the sky is falling routine.

bigbluedefense
08-10-2011, 06:53 PM
Dude, let the season play out. Our OL needs to create holes to run the ball. From there we go, it's not like we are the Browns or some scumbag last place team.

Let's see how our draft picks pan out and how they can be used before we go with the sky is falling routine.

The sky isn't falling. We're still a damn good team.

But there's no denying that the Eagles are a better team right now. And my mindstate is always SB or bust. I think we have the talent that we could win the SB.

But now with what Philly has done this offseason, and what we didn't do, I think we're done. We'll make the playoffs sure, but that's all we are.

BigBlueNorwegian
08-10-2011, 06:55 PM
Get Moss. That evens the playing field.


For the first time since you started pimping Moss, I actually agree. We need some help now. I can't ******* stand losin two times to the ******* Eagles again. We need a highly motivated Randy Moss to whoop the Eagles.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 06:56 PM
We also have no 3rd WR now that any team could care about. Reese better sign Cotchery.

Jughead10
08-10-2011, 06:58 PM
I love Cotchery. Very underrated player. A true gentleman too. Only Jet I liked. You could tell he hated a lot of the antics of his team in his weekly interviews on WFAN.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 06:59 PM
I love Cotchery. Very underrated player. A true gentleman too. Only Jet I liked. You could tell he hated a lot of the antics of his team in his weekly interviews on WFAN.

Yeah he's a good guy. Smith was also the perfect Giant. I just don't get this from either side right now.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 07:00 PM
The sky isn't falling. We're still a damn good team.

But there's no denying that the Eagles are a better team right now. And my mindstate is always SB or bust. I think we have the talent that we could win the SB.

But now with what Philly has done this offseason, and what we didn't do, I think we're done. We'll make the playoffs sure, but that's all we are.

Yea they are. At least on paper anyways. In order to prove that they are this year, they have to sweep us again. Every year is a new year, with the breaks of the game. You never know with injuries what can happen. If Vick goes down, then Vince Young comes in.

You gotta let the season run its course and see what we do. We gotta hope all our first round picks do something on defense. What about that?

Kiwi
Ross
JPP
Kenny P

Hopefully Amukamara can get healthy and be eased in..

it would help if we get production from our 2nd rounders too... Austin, and Joseph and Clint S.

We joke about that every draft time about defense. How about we finally get some real sick production out of these guys? Now we can see how good Fewell is.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 07:14 PM
From BBI

Carl Banks on Sirius says that as a result of Smith's exam
Reese's Pieces : 8:11 pm
Giants thought that he would not be available until the 9th or 10th week and would still have to work himself into condition.



If Smith comes back early and is 100% then blame the doctors for bad intel. Unless people expect our GMs to go to medical school too.

Forenci
08-10-2011, 07:17 PM
I would also be a fan of signing Cotchery. Really liked listening to him on WFAN. Smart guy, possession guy. Not unlike Steve Smith.

This just sucks. I love Steve Smith. I don't see how you can't offer the guy a ONE YEAR DEAL for that little of money. Even if you don't think he can contribute until later in the year, it'd still be worth it.

Man, if we thought Eli had a ton of INT's because of WR screw ups and drops last year - without Smith it's going to be even worse.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 07:26 PM
From BBI





If Smith comes back early and is 100% then blame the doctors for bad intel. Unless people expect our GMs to go to medical school too.

Well we discussed this and that would have been fine if he came back that late. It's when we would have needed him the most.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 07:29 PM
Well we discussed this and that would have been fine if he came back that late. It's when we would have needed him the most.

I have to admit, it's interesting see giants fans implode on various MB. But we are not going to overpay for avg talent, or hurt talent. Manningham and Nicks are going to get their contracts. So we are not going to blow our wad on a guy with 1 good season and a very serious injury. Emotions aside, it's a sound business decision. I like Smith, but I don't want us to give him a big deal with a knee like that. However, I didn't think the Eagles would step in. It's a risk on their part, but then again it's a one year deal.

Now we have to see if someone else can step up.

LTgiants
08-10-2011, 07:36 PM
One of Barden, Hixon, Thomas, Jernigan and Cruz have to step up and contribute on offense this season.

BigBlueNorwegian
08-10-2011, 07:36 PM
One question: how much will this affect our offense when we face the Eagles D this year. I mean, Steve Smith basically knows our offense as good as anyone, He was always in the right place at the right time. Is this something that can possibly come back to haunt us as well?

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 07:37 PM
One question: how much will this affect our offense when we face the Eagles D this year. I mean, Steve Smith basically knows our offense as good as anyone, He was always in the right place at the right time. Is this something that can possibly come back to haunt us as well?

I think so. I mentioned this in the free agency thread. Smith definitely knew the offense second best next to Eli.

Forenci
08-10-2011, 07:37 PM
...he got a one year deal. This wasn't a 7 year deal with 30 mil guaranteed.

And Steve Smith isn't an average player. He's a damn good WR. Injured? Yes. But that didn't stop the Eagles from signing him. He was also signed for one year with two million guaranteed.

That's nothing for a guy with Smith's talent.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 07:39 PM
One question: how much will this affect our offense when we face the Eagles D this year. I mean, Steve Smith basically knows our offense as good as anyone, He was always in the right place at the right time. Is this something that can possibly come back to haunt us as well?

No, because you install plays during the week for the gameplan. That goes on the callsheet. No player has access to it. All he knows are the WR rules, that alone means nothing.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 07:42 PM
No, because you install plays during the week for the gameplan. That goes on the callsheet. No player has access to it. All he knows are the WR rules, that alone means nothing.

He still knows the playbook though. He may not know the plays we're going to call that game but he knows enough. Remember when Pierce played the Skins that first game and he knew almost everything they were going to do. He even came out and said knowing the playbook for both sides was a big help.

bigbluedefense
08-10-2011, 07:43 PM
What are you talking about?

It wasn't a big deal or a risk at all. He signed a 1 year deal. This was basically the Giants saying they don't want him back.

If we can't sign the guy to a 1 year deal in good faith, then that's on us.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 07:44 PM
...he got a one year deal. This wasn't a 7 year deal with 30 mil guaranteed.

And Steve Smith isn't an average player. He's a damn good WR. Injured? Yes. But that didn't stop the Eagles from signing him. He was also signed for one year with two million guaranteed.

That's nothing for a guy with Smith's talent.

We weren't going to pay that much for a guy whose knee was diagnosed as far off still. It doesn't matter who it is. Plus you never know how things play out..

we were not going to pay Nicks, Mario AND Smith big time contracts. We do know Nicks will get it barring serious injury. Mario had a breakout season and showed up as a homerun threat. It was too bad Smith got hurt, because he could have been it interesting with a big time contract. So you never know how things play out in life.

I think now Mario and Nicks get their contracts. Smith is a great WR, but he is not a homerun threat. I respect what Smith did, but I'd rather this happen then not pay the guy if he produced. I don't fault Reese for paying a guy with a messed up knee. It's a business decision based on logic, which Reese is showing us..

Not over paying for avg talent AND hurt talent. It doesn't matter who you are. He stared down Strahan AND now Osi. Reese is a good GM, so let's see how this plays out.

Damix
08-10-2011, 07:45 PM
Not happy, but I'll let the season play out before I make judgement.

BigBlueNorwegian
08-10-2011, 07:48 PM
No, because you install plays during the week for the gameplan. That goes on the callsheet. No player has access to it. All he knows are the WR rules, that alone means nothing.

Okay, thanks. Really hope that's the case. I have this nightmare scenario playing in my head right now where Asante Samuel picks off a pass when we look poised to finally win against the Eagles, and afterwards crediting Smith with giving him pointers on the Giants offense.

Damn, this is upsetting.

bigbluedefense
08-10-2011, 07:49 PM
I think now with the loss of Smith and Boss, we have to become a power running offense again.

Come out Iform and just pound the rock all game. Like we did in 07-08. Our WR core suddenly isn't nearly as hot as it was 4 hours ago.

We only have 1 legitimate threat that requires a double team. The rest are good guys, but nothing special. To free them up, we gotta pound the ball and hope play action will open up some passing lanes.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 07:49 PM
Smith was the only WR who fully understands the complicated offense we run, you should know that the best. Stop calling him average talent also because that's BS.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 07:51 PM
Okay, thanks. Really hope that's the case. I have this nightmare scenario playing in my head right now where Asante Samuel picks off a pass when we look poised to finally win against the Eagles, and afterwards crediting Smith with giving him pointers on the Giants offense.

Damn, this is upsetting.

Now it doesn't work that way. The play book is 200 + pages, and out of that we install plays in the gameplan. From there, we put those plays into a call sheet which you see coaches have. We can also add specific plays for that specific team, so because Smith is not on the team he wouldn't know how those plays work.

All he knows are the WR rules. After that, he may notice a formation or two, but not the specifics.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 07:54 PM
I think now with the loss of Smith and Boss, we have to become a power running offense again.

Come out Iform and just pound the rock all game. Like we did in 07-08. Our WR core suddenly isn't nearly as hot as it was 4 hours ago.

We only have 1 legitimate threat that requires a double team. The rest are good guys, but nothing special. To free them up, we gotta pound the ball and hope play action will open up some passing lanes.

We don't know that. Wait until after the season to make that statement. Let's see how this thing plays out. We don't know who will step up. Let's at least take a look and see before making statements like that. One of the WRs can step up and show explosiveness.

So Nicks take the top off the coverage. So now Manningham and the other guys have to take adv. Run the ball with draw, showing a passing formation. Move Beckum around, use our RBs, throw screens. SO many concepts we run. Again, I am not worried, until I see after the season what our deal was.

bigbluedefense
08-10-2011, 07:57 PM
We don't know that. Wait until after the season to make that statement. Let's see how this thing plays out. We don't know who will step up. Let's at least take a look and see before making statements like that. One of the WRs can step up and show explosiveness.

So Nicks take the top off the coverage. So now Manningham and the other guys have to take adv. Run the ball with draw, showing a passing formation. Move Beckum around, use our RBs, throw screens. SO many concepts we run. Again, I am not worried, until I see after the season what our deal was.

Yeah but do you trust Gilbride to make adjustments? Come on bro!

I know hindsight is 20/20, but now passing on Ingram for Prince looks like a bad call.

Don't get me wrong, I love Prince. But I also LOVE Ingram and think he's going to be a stud RB.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 08:01 PM
Yeah but do you trust Gilbride to make adjustments? Come on bro!

I know hindsight is 20/20, but now passing on Ingram for Prince looks like a bad call.

Don't get me wrong, I love Prince. But I also LOVE Ingram and think he's going to be a stud RB.

Of course! That's such fan nonsense. We hate Gilbride! He stinks! He never make adjustments! Please! The avg. fan wouldn't know an adjustment if it kicked him in the nuts.

Gilbride is not a bad OC and Coughlin is an offensive HC. So I trust both to make the necessary moves to get this offense to where it is used to being.

Well you know how I feel about defensive first rounders. Eventually we need them to step up! ALL OF THEM!

scottyboy
08-10-2011, 08:17 PM
good thing I've been hyping Jernigan for a little while now

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 08:20 PM
good thing I've been hyping Jernigan for a little while now

Let's see what he has to offer. Darius R. has been doing very well in camp. Hixon is solid, and we can see how the other guys do too.

Forenci
08-10-2011, 08:29 PM
We weren't going to pay that much for a guy whose knee was diagnosed as far off still. It doesn't matter who it is. Plus you never know how things play out..

we were not going to pay Nicks, Mario AND Smith big time contracts. We do know Nicks will get it barring serious injury. Mario had a breakout season and showed up as a homerun threat. It was too bad Smith got hurt, because he could have been it interesting with a big time contract. So you never know how things play out in life.

I think now Mario and Nicks get their contracts. Smith is a great WR, but he is not a homerun threat. I respect what Smith did, but I'd rather this happen then not pay the guy if he produced. I don't fault Reese for paying a guy with a messed up knee. It's a business decision based on logic, which Reese is showing us..

Not over paying for avg talent AND hurt talent. It doesn't matter who you are. He stared down Strahan AND now Osi. Reese is a good GM, so let's see how this plays out.

...it was a one year deal. We weren't talking about talking about a long term deal. This deal doesn't effect what Nicks or Manningham were going to get in the future.

If he came back this season and did well that benefited us. After that, maybe we don't give him a huge deal and let him go. But for a one year, 4 million dollar deal with 2 mil guaranteed you HAVE to sign arguably the most important player on your offense (not named Manning).

LTgiants
08-10-2011, 08:41 PM
oRsYROOO20w

If you want to feel a little bit better with everything just watch it.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 08:45 PM
...it was a one year deal. We weren't talking about talking about a long term deal. This deal doesn't effect what Nicks or Manningham were going to get in the future.

If he came back this season and did well that benefited us. After that, maybe we don't give him a huge deal and let him go. But for a one year, 4 million dollar deal with 2 mil guaranteed you HAVE to sign arguably the most important player on your offense (not named Manning).

I am talking to a friend on BBI who is a doctor. So one thing we don't know is how our doctors thought of Smith's injury vs the Eagles. We have the information and we have Smith's surgical records. I am not sure the Eagles can get their information from us. Plus Warren, our doctor, is an older doctor with much more experience. Our guys got to see inside Smith's knee so it gives us the edge in terms of what we saw.

It must have scared off our guys. They must have ran their own tests, and think he can come back earlier. I think it's a business decision based on medical facts, which we as fans, aren't privy to.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 09:07 PM
Well we didn't even try to match the offer so yeah they didn't really want him back at all.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 09:09 PM
Well we didn't even try to match the offer so yeah they didn't really want him back at all.

Well that alone should tell us all we need to know about his knee. It's not like we didn't match a healthy Steve Smith at 100%.

Giantsfan1080
08-10-2011, 09:13 PM
Well that alone should tell us all we need to know about his knee. It's not like we didn't match a healthy Steve Smith at 100%.

I guess we won't know how healthy he really is until he's on the field. Time will tell whether this was a colossal mistake or Reese knew he'd get a huge backlash but stood by his principles because he knew he was right. I really want Cotchery now but my boy Barden needs to get the tampon out and get on the field.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-10-2011, 09:19 PM
I guess we won't know how healthy he really is until he's on the field. Time will tell whether this was a colossal mistake or Reese knew he'd get a huge backlash but stood by his principles because he knew he was right. I really want Cotchery now but my boy Barden needs to get the tampon out and get on the field.

We don't need to sign another WR who has limited time to get a complicated system. We have our guys, now we need one of them to step up.

I think reese stuck to his guns, while the Eagles took a gamble. If it fails, they don't lose a lot because it's a 1 year deal. However, we showed that we aren't going to over pay for medium talent AND we aren't going to sign damaged goods.

OSUGiants17
08-10-2011, 10:35 PM
STEVE SMITH IS NOT A MEDIUM/AVERAGE TALENT!!!!!!!! STOP ******* SAYING THAT!!!

that is all

BaLLiN
08-10-2011, 10:38 PM
First off, I was legitimately pissed off at the giants right when i got schefter's tweet. But after awhile, I realized what had happened to Osi after a serious knee injury. We have youth, although we know steve smith as a great player and giant, if he's not going to recover we shouldn't resign him.

He chose the eagles probably for the money/chance to win, but also because the giants disrespected him and were unloyal. It's a business, and for fans it seems really cutthroat, but the players we are letting go (Boss, Smith, Cofield) have all had injuries and their play will be affected.

Boss takes hits left and right, has had problems with concussions, and although he has great height, everything else is just alittle above average.

Smith had a major knee injury (didnt he also have a bad shoulder injury too where he couldnt lift his arm?), and we know that this can ruin careers.

Cofield had knee surgeries, and he is average. His production had alot to do with the ends we have.

For a time there it looked like Bradshaw would be added to this list, he's had foot and ankle injuries like crazy, but losing him would be soo much worse. We win with a good running game, the nfl has changed but slowing the game down and controlling the clock is more important imo.

Im upset, but at the same time Im hopeful that we can change our offense to be more on Eli and less on the receivers. These complicated routes can work, but having a timing route or just a shot downfield is simple stuff also can work. The chargers offense didnt lose much when their receivers went down bc it was much more simplistic, more on the reads of the QB. Gilbride needs to trust Eli and be more aware of what we have at WR.

As for Randy Moss, I'm down for that. Eli is a very accurate deep ball QB, Moss will open up the intermediate area where nicks is absolute money.

AlexDown
08-10-2011, 11:01 PM
I'm still not clear on the dispute between Cotchery and the Jets, but if he is healthy, the Giants should grab him. Class act and really gave everything when he was on and off the field.

Where is this Moss to the Giants sentiment coming from? I rarely completely rule something out, but knowing the Giants and the fact that he is retired, I can't think of anything less likely.

BBD, you're gearing yourself up for a letdown.

Rosebud
08-11-2011, 02:41 AM
I WANT RANDY MOSS DAMMIT!

I'm not even joking anymore. Get Moss.

Yeah, I kinda expect one Barden or Cruz to break out this year, but I'm finally with you on this.

I have to admit, it's interesting see giants fans implode on various MB. But we are not going to overpay for avg talent, or hurt talent. Manningham and Nicks are going to get their contracts. So we are not going to blow our wad on a guy with 1 good season and a very serious injury. Emotions aside, it's a sound business decision. I like Smith, but I don't want us to give him a big deal with a knee like that. However, I didn't think the Eagles would step in. It's a risk on their part, but then again it's a one year deal.

Now we have to see if someone else can step up.

1 year is not blowing our wad and when healthy Smith is a lot better than Mario Manningham so if Smith could prove he was recovered this year I'd have much rather signed him and Nicks and then moved Super Mario. I'm all for not signing an injured guy to a long term deal, but a freaking one year "prove yourself" deal? For a guy who's been such a great giant? Are ******* kidding me?

Rosebud
08-11-2011, 03:20 AM
Well at least our OL seems to be coming together well so if we really do become more of a running team again we should be able to control games like that. Plus I'm expecting Nicks to put up ridiculous numbers this year and Manningham to poorly run the wrong route less often. If one of our young WRs steps up our passing game should be good enough with Eli at the helm to compliment a strong running game and defense.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 07:44 AM
So I figured I would wake up and feel much better about this and I was overreacting and stuff but nope I'm still shocked and upset.

Damix
08-11-2011, 07:45 AM
Would we be as annoyed if he went to the Raiders? Probably not.

JBCX
08-11-2011, 07:56 AM
Relax, guys. Steve Smith was a valuable option for Eli, but he doesn't represent the upside of say, Hakeem Nicks. After submitting to microfracture surgery, his value as a player dramatically decreased. The Giants Front Office is one of the best in the business and they are not going to foolishly throw money at a guy who could very well be done completely as an NFL player. The Eagles just threw away the money it required to sign him to a 1-year deal.

As long as Eli has Nicks and Manningham everything will be fine with the passing game. Maybe Victor Cruz even has a breakout year? Nicks will put up 1200+ yards and 10+ TDs, and Eli will easily throw for over 4000 yards this year. Book it.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 08:06 AM
Would we be as annoyed if he went to the Raiders? Probably not.

I'd still be very annoyed but no of course I wouldn't be as upset. When one of your favorite players goes to a hated rival because your GM lowballed him it's a problem though.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 08:11 AM
I'm going to take a wait and see approach. I'm going to miss Steve Smith and all he does for the offense, but there is certainly no guarantee he was going to that this year. I trust Reese. I don't think we lowballed him given the situation. There wasn't a ton of teams after his services. I'm just more upset he signed with the Eagles. Not because I think he is going to tear us up but I just can't see him wearing that ugly jersey.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 08:28 AM
I'm going to take a wait and see approach. I'm going to miss Steve Smith and all he does for the offense, but there is certainly no guarantee he was going to that this year. I trust Reese. I don't think we lowballed him given the situation. There wasn't a ton of teams after his services. I'm just more upset he signed with the Eagles. Not because I think he is going to tear us up but I just can't see him wearing that ugly jersey.

It's going to be weird as anything to see him in that jersey this year. Like the bizarro world Steve Smith.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 08:31 AM
I wish I had a better grasp on our cap situation for this year. As well as how much dead money we are carrying that will be off the books next year. Hopefully we have some more room to do somethings next year offseason if good players are available.

But right now we do need to trust our recent drafts. Some of those mid round guys this year but mostly last 2 years need to step up.

Speaking of, I saw this a few days ago and haven't seen anything since. Apparently Tyler Sash has really been impressing and was working with the first team a bunch the other day.

JBCX
08-11-2011, 08:33 AM
According to medical reports, the *earliest* he will be able to contribute to *anyone* this year is Week 10.

And that's probably an optimistic assessment, also. So the Eagles are paying a guy a couple of million dollars to basically sit on their bench for more than 60% of the season. Doesn't sound like a smart move to me at all.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 08:35 AM
According to medical reports, the *earliest* he will be able to contribute to *anyone* this year is Week 10.

And that's probably an optimistic assessment, also. So the Eagles are paying a guy a couple of million dollars to basically sit on their bench for more than 60% of the season. Doesn't sound like a smart move to me at all.

Apparently the Eagles doctors think earlier, week 4 or 5ish. Who knows. I'll believe anything when I see it. The Eagles are optimistic, which seems to be there outlook on their entire offseason.

JBCX
08-11-2011, 08:45 AM
Apparently the Eagles doctors think earlier, week 4 or 5ish. Who knows. I'll believe anything when I see it. The Eagles are optimistic, which seems to be there outlook on their entire offseason.

The thing with Microfracture surgery is that it is by far the worst surgery that can happen to an NFL player in terms of recovery time.

Most players don't come back and play until more than a year after having the surgery, and less than 50% ever play at a high level ever again after having it.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 08:45 AM
I wish I had a better grasp on our cap situation for this year. As well as how much dead money we are carrying that will be off the books next year. Hopefully we have some more room to do somethings next year offseason if good players are available.

But right now we do need to trust our recent drafts. Some of those mid round guys this year but mostly last 2 years need to step up.

Speaking of, I saw this a few days ago and haven't seen anything since. Apparently Tyler Sash has really been impressing and was working with the first team a bunch the other day.

Reese and Abrams really bungled the cap situation.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 08:58 AM
The thing with Microfracture surgery is that it is by far the worst surgery that can happen to an NFL player in terms of recovery time.

Most players don't come back and play until more than a year after having the surgery, and less than 50% ever play at a high level ever again after having it.

This is true. Kenny Phillips ended his 2009 season I believe in week 3. He missed all of the 2009 season with that injury and wasn't the same last year. We had to use him differently to protect his knee. Reports are he is just now getting back to to 100%. Nearly two years later.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 09:10 AM
Yeah, I kinda expect one Barden or Cruz to break out this year, but I'm finally with you on this.



1 year is not blowing our wad and when healthy Smith is a lot better than Mario Manningham so if Smith could prove he was recovered this year I'd have much rather signed him and Nicks and then moved Super Mario. I'm all for not signing an injured guy to a long term deal, but a freaking one year "prove yourself" deal? For a guy who's been such a great giant? Are ******* kidding me?

Manningham is just scratching his talent. It took a while for him get used his system. He had a sick and is a lot more explosive then Smith. Not to mention SMITH IS HURT!! This is not a healthy Steve Smith. How did KP play after his surgery? He still hasn't recovered, and now why in the world would be pay 4 million dollars for a 1 year deal, when we could use that money somewhere else. Plus we are around 3.5 million under the cap, so 4 million would have been tight.

Our doctors think otherwise and they did the surgery on Smith. The Eagles took a risk and we will see if it pans out. It a business decision based on money and medical history. Reese made a good decision based on the information he got.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 09:12 AM
The thing with Microfracture surgery is that it is by far the worst surgery that can happen to an NFL player in terms of recovery time.

Most players don't come back and play until more than a year after having the surgery, and less than 50% ever play at a high level ever again after having it.

Kenny p had it for his degenerative knee, and he still is recovering. Now based on beat writers he looks to be back. But it takes a while to heal, so we went based on our doctors advice. From there Reese made a business decision.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 09:23 AM
Manningham is just scratching his talent. It took a while for him get used his system. He had a sick and is a lot more explosive then Smith. Not to mention SMITH IS HURT!! This is not a healthy Steve Smith. How did KP play after his surgery? He still hasn't recovered, and now why in the world would be pay 4 million dollars for a 1 year deal, when we could use that money somewhere else. Plus we are around 3.5 million under the cap, so 4 million would have been tight.

Our doctors think otherwise and they did the surgery on Smith. The Eagles took a risk and we will see if it pans out. It a business decision based on money and medical history. Reese made a good decision based on the information he got.

He's so dumb I'm not sure we get much more than that. He still isn't used to the system. He basically only runs two routes. And his hands aren't the best.

I'm not terribly furious about Smith leaving, but I would put my money on Smith coming back 100% in 2012 before I put money on Mario ever developing a brain.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 09:30 AM
He's so dumb I'm not sure we get much more than that. He still isn't used to the system. He basically only runs two routes. And his hands aren't the best.

That is the dumbest reason I think I heard. You are better than that. You sound like a defeated person who is angry that smith left. Granted we have a lot of emotional fans but like I said he is just scratching his talent. Anyone can see that he is an explosive player. And what do you think D Jac runs? Manningham is in a system where we run option and choice routes. Like it or not, he may be dumb, but he is adjusting more and more into the system and did a sick job.

He has good hands, but over thinking everything due to scheme.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 09:34 AM
That is the dumbest reason I think I heard. You are better than that. You sound like a defeated person who is angry that smith left. Granted we have a lot of emotional fans but like I said he is just scratching his talent. Anyone can see that he is an explosive player. And what do you think D Jac runs? Manningham is in a system where we run option and choice routes. Like it or not, he may be dumb, but he is adjusting more and more into the system and did a sick job.

He has good hands, but over thinking everything due to scheme.

Jackson only runs one route as well. I get that. But he does it better than anyone in the league, I don't know how, but he does. It defies all logic. Mario isn't at that level. What else is dumb? He runs screens and go routes. That's about it. His hands are average. Having him on the field more often isn't something I'm exactly thrilled about. Mario is a great 3rd WR if you have someone else (like Smith) who can do everything else.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 09:43 AM
I don't see any problem returning to a smash mouth football team with an above average defens with Eli making the big play when needed. We did get a little to pass happy at times so maybe this will help out in that respect.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 10:08 AM
Jackson only runs one route as well. I get that. But he does it better than anyone in the league, I don't know how, but he does. It defies all logic. Mario isn't at that level. What else is dumb? He runs screens and go routes. That's about it. His hands are average. Having him on the field more often isn't something I'm exactly thrilled about. Mario is a great 3rd WR if you have someone else (like Smith) who can do everything else.

Yeah he does, and in a much more QB friendly system than our system. That's the whole adjustment part of Mario in our system. It's not as simple for Mario and run straight as fast as you can. He has to make all these reads, and that effects other areas like catching the ball. You tend to over think everything, Now he is showing signs of getting used to this system.

Here is the thing though Mario isn't a 3rd WR. He is our Z.. Smith is our 3rd down Y WR. Great 3rd down talent, but no where near as explosive as Manningham. Basically Mario has a higher potential ceiling than Smith.

And no sense in comparing both guys because one seriously messed up his knee, while the other stayed healthy. Basically it was bad luck for Smith in getting hurt in his FA year. It made our business decision that much easier.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 10:24 AM
Yeah he does, and in a much more QB friendly system than our system. That's the whole adjustment part of Mario in our system. It's not as simple for Mario and run straight as fast as you can. He has to make all these reads, and that effects other areas like catching the ball. You tend to over think everything, Now he is showing signs of getting used to this system.

Here is the thing though Mario isn't a 3rd WR. He is our Z.. Smith is our 3rd down Y WR. Great 3rd down talent, but no where near as explosive as Manningham. Basically Mario has a higher potential ceiling than Smith.

And no sense in comparing both guys because one seriously messed up his knee, while the other stayed healthy. Basically it was bad luck for Smith in getting hurt in his FA year. It made our business decision that much easier.

I haven't seen these signs.

Disagree about Smith. Smith could play all the WR positions. Yes, Mario isn't a slot guy but he was our 3rd WR because you could move Smith to any position when we had three on the field. Mario does have a higher potential but I don't think he ever reaches it. Potential is a dangerous thing if you are constantly counting on it.

I'm also not comparing them. I'm just not content with relying on Mario.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 10:35 AM
I haven't seen these signs.

Disagree about Smith. Smith could play all the WR positions. Yes, Mario isn't a slot guy but he was our 3rd WR because you could move Smith to any position when we had three on the field. Mario does have a higher potential but I don't think he ever reaches it. Potential is a dangerous thing if you are constantly counting on it.

I'm also not comparing them. I'm just not content with relying on Mario.

Did you not see him become a HR threat last year? Perhaps if you lived closer, we could hang out, BBQ, have some beers and watch the game together. Then I can do what I do when I used to coach. Go over the recorded game and go play by play.

I am confident we can show how explosive of a WR Mario is becoming. I think mario is getting better and better, and he will continue to do good things for us.

All of our WRs can be moved around depending on various personnel packages. Fans think ranking WRs is a linear thing, but what they fail to realize is that teams have a lot of personnel packages. Therefore your X Z and Y changes for all of them if you have the guys.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 10:52 AM
Did you not see him become a HR threat last year? Perhaps if you lived closer, we could hang out, BBQ, have some beers and watch the game together. Then I can do what I do when I used to coach. Go over the recorded game and go play by play.

I am confident we can show how explosive of a WR Mario is becoming. I think mario is getting better and better, and he will continue to do good things for us.

All of our WRs can be moved around depending on various personnel packages. Fans think ranking WRs is a linear thing, but what they fail to realize is that teams have a lot of personnel packages. Therefore your X Z and Y changes for all of them if you have the guys.

I get all of that. And Mario was a HR threat, but that is all he was. He brings nothing else to the table. He is by no means a complete WR and I don't think he ever will be. I also get how the X, Y, and Z change all the time if you have the guys. I just haven't seen Mario be that guy who can do that. Smith certainly was. Mario is still very limited and it is all because of what is going on (or what isn't going on) between his ear.

We need him to step up and do other things. Or have someone else step up and do the inside work to open up Manningham for the HR threat. Because that is all he can deliver. He's really good at running in a straight line and catching a ball.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 10:57 AM
I think Hixon can step in and do a fine job moving the chains like Smith. It would be nice if Thomas finger heals quickly so we can see if he's turned the corner as well.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 11:03 AM
I get all of that. And Mario was a HR threat, but that is all he was. He brings nothing else to the table. He is by no means a complete WR and I don't think he ever will be. I also get how the X, Y, and Z change all the time if you have the guys. I just haven't seen Mario be that guy who can do that. Smith certainly was. Mario is still very limited and it is all because of what is going on (or what isn't going on) between his ear.

We need him to step up and do other things. Or have someone else step up and do the inside work to open up Manningham for the HR threat. Because that is all he can deliver. He's really good at running in a straight line and catching a ball.

Nothing else to the table? He scores instantly, that alone is a great thing. He is our go to guy for screens, and I expect we will see a lot more of that using Mario and perhaps Hixon and JJ.

We will see added plays and adjustments now that Boss and Smith are gone. Just like I said here and on BBI, let's see how this season plays out before people starting over reacting. Not you specifically, but giants fans collectively.

Mario is running his routes based on adjustments. If that's a go route then so be it. He is our instant hr threat which teams have to watch out for. That alone is worth the price of admission if he can rattle off a 40 plus yard TD. I think we are just scratching the surface on his talent, and now we will get a chance to see his skills, barring injury of course.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 11:11 AM
Nothing else to the table? He scores instantly, that alone is a great thing. He is our go to guy for screens, and I expect we will see a lot more of that using Mario and perhaps Hixon and JJ.

We will see added plays and adjustments now that Boss and Smith are gone. Just like I said here and on BBI, let's see how this season plays out before people starting over reacting. Not you specifically, but giants fans collectively.

Mario is running his routes based on adjustments. If that's a go route then so be it. He is our instant hr threat which teams have to watch out for. That alone is worth the price of admission if he can rattle off a 40 plus yard TD. I think we are just scratching the surface on his talent, and now we will get a chance to see his skills, barring injury of course.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one. The long TDs are obviously great. But how many time INTs or incompletions were there because Mario didn't run the right route or dropped a ball other than a screen. We need a chain mover. Hopefully Hixon can be that guy and be healthy.

We could be just scratching the surface of his talent, but again, if we count on that happening we are setting ourselves to be burned hard.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 11:16 AM
I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one. The long TDs are obviously great. But how many time INTs or incompletions were there because Mario didn't run the right route or dropped a ball other than a screen. We need a chain mover. Hopefully Hixon can be that guy and be healthy.

We could be just scratching the surface of his talent, but again, if we count on that happening we are setting ourselves to be burned hard.

That's cool. I like you, you're a good member on here and provide good conversation.

Not sure, could be little or a lot. But same goes for other WRs. We had this with Shockey, Toomer, and Plax too. Sadly, it's expected with all WRs in this system. I bet it happened with Smith too, but less obvious.

Hixon, JJ, Darius R and Cruz are all fighting for that spot so can they provide production while being versatile.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 11:18 AM
I don't think it ever really happened with Smith. He was so reliable. Eli knew where he was supposed to be and going to be and he was there to catch the ball.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 11:23 AM
I really hope Barden gets off the bike already. It's certainly his moment to shine if he can grab it.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 11:41 AM
I don't think it ever really happened with Smith. He was so reliable. Eli knew where he was supposed to be and going to be and he was there to catch the ball.

I would be it happened but because we don't have access to the coaches film, so we can't see how many times. But its part of the game, I wouldn't doubt it happened more times than fans think.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 11:46 AM
Jernigan is going to wear #12 now.

Damix
08-11-2011, 12:31 PM
As I said, I'll let this play out before I make a judgement, but if Steve Smith is playing in week 4 or 5 after our medical staff said week 9 or 10 is more likely, then we seriously need to make a change there. Especially with all our injuries.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 12:42 PM
As I said, I'll let this play out before I make a judgement, but if Steve Smith is playing in week 4 or 5 after our medical staff said week 9 or 10 is more likely, then we seriously need to make a change there. Especially with all our injuries.

I highly doubt we fire Dr. Warren. The guy has been with our organization, I am guessing, a long time.

Damix
08-11-2011, 12:47 PM
I highly doubt we fire Dr. Warren. The guy has been with our organization, I am guessing, a long time.

I don't care if he was the original doctor, if you make a diagnosis that poor then you are clearly no longer fit for your job.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 01:21 PM
I don't care if he was the original doctor, if you make a diagnosis that poor then you are clearly no longer fit for your job.

I doubt that they will get rid of him is my point. Should, would, could, at the end of the day I don't think, even if he is wrong, he goes anywhere.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 01:22 PM
Giants were never promised a chance to match Eagles offer for Steve Smith, his agent says

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2011/08/giants_were_never_promised_a_c.html

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 01:37 PM
No Cotchery for us, he signed with Pitt.

JBCX
08-11-2011, 01:37 PM
As I said, I'll let this play out before I make a judgement, but if Steve Smith is playing in week 4 or 5 after our medical staff said week 9 or 10 is more likely, then we seriously need to make a change there. Especially with all our injuries.

There is *no* way he's playing before Week 10. He had freaking *microfracture* surgery.

igglefanz
08-11-2011, 01:41 PM
((Now I am not trolling I am trying to bring in a bit of outside perspective on this if you don't like what i say I get it but no need to be harsh))

Now I am just going to talk a bit on this, after reading that article it sounds like the giants really low balled their initial offer. Really which if is true I cannot blame him for bolting even after the agent told the Giants there was another team in the mix.

Hurt or not he is a young player that got hurt before he could get his extension due to the rules of the uncapped year. I know that this game is a business but still he got hurt playing for them and not only does it appear the contract he was offered but the long term plans didn't look good for him there. I think he is a bit hurt that they went that low on him after basically getting screwed by the cba and getting a long term deal. He did deserve better one way or another.

I don't know what he does bring if he will even be able to regain any of that older form but its not like the giants paid him tons. Rookie contract and he lost out. Just a sad way to end a career there also considering the owner who would of paid him was part of the reason there was an uncapped year and why he didn't get his extension.

Just my 2 cents

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 01:44 PM
((Now I am not trolling I am trying to bring in a bit of outside perspective on this if you don't like what i say I get it but no need to be harsh))

Now I am just going to talk a bit on this, after reading that article it sounds like the giants really low balled their initial offer. Really which if is true I cannot blame him for bolting even after the agent told the Giants there was another team in the mix.

Hurt or not he is a young player that got hurt before he could get his extension due to the rules of the uncapped year. I know that this game is a business but still he got hurt playing for them and not only does it appear the contract he was offered but the long term plans didn't look good for him there. I think he is a bit hurt that they went that low on him after basically getting screwed by the cba and getting a long term deal. He did deserve better one way or another.

I don't know what he does bring if he will even be able to regain any of that older form but its not like the giants paid him tons. Rookie contract and he lost out. Just a sad way to end a career there also considering the owner who would of paid him was part of the reason there was an uncapped year and why he didn't get his extension.

Just my 2 cents

I'm pretty sure our owner was always one pushing to get a deal done. There were many teams looking forward to uncapped years, I don't think we were one of them.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 01:47 PM
((Now I am not trolling I am trying to bring in a bit of outside perspective on this if you don't like what i say I get it but no need to be harsh))

Now I am just going to talk a bit on this, after reading that article it sounds like the giants really low balled their initial offer. Really which if is true I cannot blame him for bolting even after the agent told the Giants there was another team in the mix.

Hurt or not he is a young player that got hurt before he could get his extension due to the rules of the uncapped year. I know that this game is a business but still he got hurt playing for them and not only does it appear the contract he was offered but the long term plans didn't look good for him there. I think he is a bit hurt that they went that low on him after basically getting screwed by the cba and getting a long term deal. He did deserve better one way or another.

I don't know what he does bring if he will even be able to regain any of that older form but its not like the giants paid him tons. Rookie contract and he lost out. Just a sad way to end a career there also considering the owner who would of paid him was part of the reason there was an uncapped year and why he didn't get his extension.

Just my 2 cents



Fair post. Thanks for the outside perspective!

This is a post from BBI, and sums it up perfectly so I will cut and paste it rather then me re-writing it.

I just think the agent is a meathead for 2 reasons:

1. Not bringing the deal back to the Giants to try and get more cash for his client.
2. For his comments admitting he didn't bring it back.

That's it.

The agent? His foolishness did the Giants a favor. The last thing this team needed to do was sign Smith. We have better players at the position and he's injured.

Time to move on was the right move by the Giants.



I found it odd that the agent didn't bring that offer back. Granted he doesn't have to, but the job of the agent is to get the most money. So say I am your agent. You get a deal, well my job to get you max money. So wouldn't
it be smart on my part, as your agent to go back to the giants, and say, do you want to match or not? That part is VERY odd.

I found that to be shady. Not that he left, but that he didn't even bother asking us to match the money.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 01:53 PM
Yeah Mara and Kraft were by far the most influential in getting the deal done. Also, as we all know it was Mara's father Wellington who let the league grow by leaps and bounds because he split the NY revenue to all teams across the NFL.

igglefanz
08-11-2011, 01:54 PM
I'm pretty sure our owner was always one pushing to get a deal done. There were many teams looking forward to uncapped years, I don't think we were one of them.

Maybe but either what way your owner was part of the reason for the uncapped year then lockout. If he agreed or not with the ideals. I think there is several owners that didn't want this to happen but it still did and It happened. My main point is still they should of stepped up and been a little better to him. He lost a long term contract playing for them and if and when the initial numbers come out I am betting is gonna be nearly half of what the Eagles gave him. For his agent to say why even bother they are miles apart basically is what it looks like to me. If the offers were even close he would of countered.

Part of me actually thinks they did that with plans of moving on as is. But i could be wrong.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 01:57 PM
The Giants offered Smith a 5 year $35 million extension last year before he got hurt and he turned it down. He wanted to hit FA so that's the risk he took. Can you please not come in here when you have no idea what you're talking about.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2011, 02:09 PM
So I got up this morning.

Avoided twitter, avoided sports radio, avoided espn, all the beat writers, all the coworkers who were talking about it, just basically ignoring the living breathing world, thinking that some time would help me feel better.

Nope.

I'm still ******* furious.

igglefanz
08-11-2011, 02:10 PM
The Giants offered Smith a 5 year $35 million extension last year before he got hurt and he turned it down. He wanted to hit FA so that's the risk he took. Can you please not come in here when you have no idea what you're talking about.

Which due to the CBA rules would of been mostly would of had to be guaranteed. Base salary they couldnt raise to give him his worth becasue of the limit. The Giants could of offered him more but because of the way things were last year they would of had to give his so much in guarantees that if he DID get hurt they would be out a ton. Jackson was in the same boat last year for us. Eagles wanted to sign him but could not without locking so much up in a guarantee.

Holmes with issues but a great season last season got 5 years 50 million. He came off a pro bowl year what he was getting offered wasn't fair market value for him. He should of gotten at least closer to that then the 5 year 35 million.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2011, 02:10 PM
And Ramses Barden. You ****.

Get off that bike and run some ******* routes. You ******* **** sucker.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 02:18 PM
So I got up this morning.

Avoided twitter, avoided sports radio, avoided espn, all the beat writers, all the coworkers who were talking about it, just basically ignoring the living breathing world, thinking that some time would help me feel better.

Nope.

I'm still ******* furious.

Haha read my first post from this morning. Pretty much did the exact same thing and felt the same way.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 02:20 PM
I keep forgetting he is on the team.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2011, 02:21 PM
Haha read my first post from this morning. Pretty much did the exact same thing and felt the same way.

haha, what page is it on? I figured we probably had like 3 pages worth of convo since the last time I logged in and I'm too angry to read it all haha.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 02:22 PM
haha, what page is it on? I figured we probably had like 3 pages worth of convo since the last time I logged in and I'm too angry to read it all haha.

This is what I said:


So I figured I would wake up and feel much better about this and I was overreacting and stuff but nope I'm still shocked and upset.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2011, 02:22 PM
Cotchery was actually perfect as a replacement. He's like a poor man's Steve Smith and a very underrated player.

But once again, we were sleeping. Reese is either going to wind up the biggest genius on the planet this year, or the biggest douchebag.

There's no medium for him. Let's hope he's more Ted Thompson than AJ Smith.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2011, 02:24 PM
This is what I said:

Yup. I hear ya. Smith was my favorite offensive player on the team. Nicks being my 2nd favorite.

This one hurts. I know all the arguments for and against, but I don't care. This one hurts.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2011, 02:24 PM
It's like finding out that your wife/girlfriend is getting piped by your worst enemy.

This one hurts.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 02:29 PM
It's like finding out that your wife/girlfriend is getting piped by your worst enemy.

This one hurts.

Yup. The worst part of it is where I work is close to Eagles country so I've been taking zings all day.

Damix
08-11-2011, 02:31 PM
I live with an Eagles/Phillies fan that considers himself knowledgable but really only reads ESPN.

Had a baseball argument the other day with him where I tried to explain DIPs to him. Complete fail.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2011, 02:36 PM
Yup. The worst part of it is where I work is close to Eagles country so I've been taking zings all day.

Same here.

I was so sick of hearing about Kevin Kolb last year. Now this year with this dream team crap.

Just point out how they never won a championship. Gets to them every time.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2011, 02:37 PM
I live with an Eagles/Phillies fan that considers himself knowledgable but really only reads ESPN.

Had a baseball argument the other day with him where I tried to explain DIPs to him. Complete fail.

My girl is a redskins fan. I've convinced her to make the Giants her 2nd favorite team and she supports the Giants bc of me (unless they play the Redskins).

I want to be upset at her for being a Skins fan (a big one too), but it's almost like I feel bad for her. She's like a lovable loser.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 02:43 PM
Same here.

I was so sick of hearing about Kevin Kolb last year. Now this year with this dream team crap.

Just point out how they never won a championship. Gets to them every time.

Point to an empty corner in the room and ask your co-worker "do you see that?". And then tell them it's the Eagle's trophy case. It really does never get old.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 02:43 PM
My girl is a redskins fan. I've convinced her to make the Giants her 2nd favorite team and she supports the Giants bc of me (unless they play the Redskins).

I want to be upset at her for being a Skins fan (a big one too), but it's almost like I feel bad for her. She's like a lovable loser.

Here in Baltimore I bond with Ravens fans by trashing the Foreskins.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 02:44 PM
All the finger pointing is going to come back and haunt us when they finally do win it.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 02:45 PM
Here in Baltimore I bond with Ravens fans by trashing the Foreskins.

Plus you have sexy Jersey pride on your team.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 02:48 PM
All the finger pointing is going to come back and haunt us when they finally do win it.

I hope I never live to see that day. They still have a long way to go until 3 regardless.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2011, 02:50 PM
All the finger pointing is going to come back and haunt us when they finally do win it.

Don't worry about it. They're still going to go home crying this year.

Point to an empty corner in the room and ask your co-worker "do you see that?". And then tell them it's the Eagle's trophy case. It really does never get old.

Rekindle their memories of all those close but no cigar moments they've felt over the years. The bitterness in their faces is intoxicating.

Here in Baltimore I bond with Ravens fans by trashing the Foreskins.

She thinks they're tanking the season for Luck. When I reminded her that the Skins will find a way to mess that up too, she didn't cook dinner.

I could never date an Eagle fan. I actually cut off one girl back in the day for that reason. Can't do it.

No fly eagles fly crap in my house. Don't want to hear that ****.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 02:55 PM
I was supposed to go into Philadelphia for the first time ever this weekend but now I'm seriously contemplating going(not counting the 2 Giants/Eagles game I've been to). I have a feeling it would end up bad with me yelling at Eagles fans drunk.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2011, 03:01 PM
My brother keeps telling me we should go to a Giants/Eagles game at Philly. I keep thinking we'll wind up in the courthouse.

How was your experiences there?

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 03:03 PM
My brother keeps telling me we should go to a Giants/Eagles game at Philly. I keep thinking we'll wind up in the courthouse.

How was your experiences there?

One time I wore my jersey and the other time I didn't. It was fine though when we did because the Giants were playing really well that year and the Eagles were already out of it. We got yelled at by a few people but we didn't like idiots and kept to ourselves. The other game I was at was when the Giants had that big comeback in the second half. That was fun to be at but again I just kept to myself and didn't act like an ass. My friend that I went with is an Eagles season ticket holder and I was banned after than since the Eagles lost both games I went to.

Rosebud
08-11-2011, 03:14 PM
Manningham is just scratching his talent. It took a while for him get used his system. He had a sick and is a lot more explosive then Smith. Not to mention SMITH IS HURT!! This is not a healthy Steve Smith. How did KP play after his surgery? He still hasn't recovered, and now why in the world would be pay 4 million dollars for a 1 year deal, when we could use that money somewhere else. Plus we are around 3.5 million under the cap, so 4 million would have been tight.

Our doctors think otherwise and they did the surgery on Smith. The Eagles took a risk and we will see if it pans out. It a business decision based on money and medical history. Reese made a good decision based on the information he got.

Mario's development is hugely dependent on his ability to make smarter decisions. Somethign I have very little faith in. If there's one thing Mario has proven it's that he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. The potential for not only probowls but all-pro's is there, but I don't think it's there between the ears, hopefully he proves me wrong.

He's so dumb I'm not sure we get much more than that. He still isn't used to the system. He basically only runs two routes. And his hands aren't the best.

I'm not terribly furious about Smith leaving, but I would put my money on Smith coming back 100% in 2012 before I put money on Mario ever developing a brain.

Ed Zachary.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2011, 03:21 PM
Mario has potential to be our best WR.

The problem is it will never happen. Especially not in this system. I could see him going elsewhere and perhaps thriving in a simpler offense. But he'll never realize his potential in our system.

In Gilbride's system, athleticism is overrated. You need to be intelligent and a good route runner. That's why Smith is so good in our system. He was built for our system.

Watch, Smith won't be as good in Philly not only bc of his injury, but bc the WCO Reid runs doesn't give him the same creative freedom that the choice routes did in our system.

He's the prototype for what our offense needs at WR though. That's why losing him hurt us.

DOMINATEtheline
08-11-2011, 03:22 PM
Went last year, surreal experience! The energy in the air was intoxicating! I wore our colors, personally I found it absurd of giants fans being intimidated to the extent that they wouldnt even cheer when we scored, I saw some of this at Lincoln I was appalled. there was heckling but nothing major my response to everything was 1960(the last championship for the eagles) Their fan base is hardcore and they protect their territory. I sat with some knowledgeable Old Eagles fan and a young guy. Of course they are some jackasses but overall it was great. I remember when we came back to get the lead I screamed "We the NYGIANTS not the motherfkin redskins!" Remember the week prior the Eagles destroyed the redskins. The crowd was sooo quiet man! I then hi fived another Giants fan in front of me, man the feeling I had was indescribable the giants fan screamed "ROAD WARRIORS!"
Its a priceless experience, alot of testosterone in the air- I recommend you go!

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 03:24 PM
Went last year, surreal experience! The energy in the air was intoxicating! I wore our colors, personally I found it absurd of giants fans being intimidated to the extent that they wouldnt even cheer when we scored, I saw some of this at Lincoln I was appalled. there was heckling but nothing major my response to everything was 1960(the last championship for the eagles) Their fan base is hardcore and they protect their territory. I sat with some knowledgeable Old Eagles fan and a young guy. Of course they are some jackasses but overall it was great. I remember when we came back to get the lead I screamed "We the NYGIANTS not the motherfkin redskins!" Remember the week prior the Eagles destroyed the redskins. The crowd was sooo quiet man! I then hi fived another Giants fan in front of me, man the feeling I had was indescribable the giants fan screamed "ROAD WARRIORS!"
Its a priceless experience, alot of testosterone in the air- I recommend you go!

And then we lost. :(

DOMINATEtheline
08-11-2011, 03:27 PM
And then we lost. :(


yeah man! Eli fumbled, it was a very winnable game.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2011, 03:28 PM
I'm still pissed about that fumble. No one even touched him. He just fumbled it on his own.

WTF Eli. That's the 2nd time you did that **** vs the Eagles.

I swear if we go 0-2 against the Eagles again this year I'm gonna lose it.

DOMINATEtheline
08-11-2011, 03:33 PM
We beat ourselves in last year's two losses, its an internal problem, I believe we the personnel to beat the eagles consistently its matter of executing and playing smart football.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 03:39 PM
Mario's development is hugely dependent on his ability to make smarter decisions. Somethign I have very little faith in. If there's one thing Mario has proven it's that he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. The potential for not only probowls but all-pro's is there, but I don't think it's there between the ears, hopefully he proves me wrong.



Based on what? He had a career year last year. We could possibly have 2 1,000 yard backs and 2 1,000 yard WRs on the same team. You're supposed to say you don't have faith when someone isn't performing, lol, not after they have a career year.

For example, I have no faith in Ramses Barden. Sometimes I forget he is on the team until someone brings up his name. Why? Because he hasn't produced. You can't say you don't faith in someone after they have a career year, lol. That means no sense!

Rosebud
08-11-2011, 03:50 PM
Mario has potential to be our best WR.

The problem is it will never happen. Especially not in this system. I could see him going elsewhere and perhaps thriving in a simpler offense. But he'll never realize his potential in our system.

In Gilbride's system, athleticism is overrated. You need to be intelligent and a good route runner. That's why Smith is so good in our system. He was built for our system.

Watch, Smith won't be as good in Philly not only bc of his injury, but bc the WCO Reid runs doesn't give him the same creative freedom that the choice routes did in our system.

He's the prototype for what our offense needs at WR though. That's why losing him hurt us.

I like when you read my mind...and yes I meant that to be as rudy cool as it sounds...

Based on what? He had a career year last year. We could possibly have 2 1,000 yard backs and 2 1,000 yard WRs on the same team. You're supposed to say you don't have faith when someone isn't performing, lol, not after they have a career year.

For example, I have no faith in Ramses Barden. Sometimes I forget he is on the team until someone brings up his name. Why? Because he hasn't produced. You can't say you don't faith in someone after they have a career year, lol. That means no sense!

I have faith in Mario to do what he does. I have no faith in Mario becoming smart enough to master this offense. Big Difference.

Rosebud
08-11-2011, 03:54 PM
BTW has no one still signed Youboty? I could see Fewell petitioning for him to get a shot with Prince and Bruce Johnson already hurt and Youboty having had his only useful seasons under Fewell.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 04:03 PM
I like when you read my mind...and yes I meant that to be as rudy cool as it sounds...



I have faith in Mario to do what he does. I have no faith in Mario becoming smart enough to master this offense. Big Difference.

Maybe they will give him a wrist band to use to help him out. There are ways to make it easier. But so far things are going well, so like I said, I don't see the issue unless I see him constantly making mistakes and screwing up.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 07:19 PM
Based on what? He had a career year last year. We could possibly have 2 1,000 yard backs and 2 1,000 yard WRs on the same team. You're supposed to say you don't have faith when someone isn't performing, lol, not after they have a career year.

For example, I have no faith in Ramses Barden. Sometimes I forget he is on the team until someone brings up his name. Why? Because he hasn't produced. You can't say you don't faith in someone after they have a career year, lol. That means no sense!

Well Barden did produce in the 1 game he ever got in. He was being brought along slowly and when he got his moment to shine he took advantage until he got hurt.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-11-2011, 07:34 PM
Well Barden did produce in the 1 game he ever got in. He was being brought along slowly and when he got his moment to shine he took advantage until he got hurt.

Either way, he is like a Tim Carter, who had talent but couldn't stay on the field, hence the Tim Carter made of glass stuff.

Giantsfan1080
08-11-2011, 07:51 PM
Either way, he is like a Tim Carter, who had talent but couldn't stay on the field, hence the Tim Carter made of glass stuff.

Very true. I expect a good year now though.

Jughead10
08-11-2011, 08:38 PM
I'm watching the Eagles/Ravens. Can't judge much but two things.

Forgot about the new kickoff rule. While I hate it, I think it can only help us. Kickoff distance and returns were areas we are weaker than a lot of teams. I think every kickoff but one in this game has been a touchback by a lot. And then one taken out probably should have been kneeled.

Also Vince Young is trash.

Giantsfan1080
08-12-2011, 10:58 AM
I'm watching the Eagles/Ravens. Can't judge much but two things.

Forgot about the new kickoff rule. While I hate it, I think it can only help us. Kickoff distance and returns were areas we are weaker than a lot of teams. I think every kickoff but one in this game has been a touchback by a lot. And then one taken out probably should have been kneeled.

Also Vince Young is trash.

Probably one of the reasons they were fine letting Chase go.

Jughead10
08-12-2011, 11:12 AM
The difference between the first and last place team in average starting position is just going to greatly reduce. Don't know the exact numbers but we were near the bottom in both our starting field position and our opponents. This will help us make up some of that hidden yardage.

Giantsfan1080
08-12-2011, 11:13 AM
The difference between the first and last place team in average starting position is just going to greatly reduce. Don't know the exact numbers but we were near the bottom in both our starting field position and our opponents. This will help us make up some of that hidden yardage.

Yeah there are going to be some teams like the Raiders who probably won't have a kickoff returned on them all year. It's a dumb rule.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-12-2011, 12:37 PM
Yeah there are going to be some teams like the Raiders who probably won't have a kickoff returned on them all year. It's a dumb rule.

I like Sebastion J. The guy is a beast, I expect a lot of touch backs.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2011, 04:42 PM
I thought the Eagles defense looked very impressive. That front is greatly improved, and Washburn is a genius on the dline.

I mentioned him and how he uses his fronts last year in a thread after we played them. I love how he uses spacing to attack pass protections. He takes something simple like a 4 man rush and he uses it in creative ways to attack the LOS. Pay attention to how the Eagles line up their front 4 this year, you'll be envious of it.

They whipped the Baltimore Oline up and down the field. That's not a mediocre oline either.

Casey Matthews looked solid at MIKE too. He definitely put on weight. They're gonna be a tough team to beat this year.

I still don't trust Vick or that oline though. But their defense will be much improved this year.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2011, 04:44 PM
While I love Washburn, I do admit that players make plays and that his addition has probably been exaggerated.

But you do have to give him credit. He knows how to use his line to attack. And that makes them dangerous. And Babin looks legit too in that system.

Which is scary bc if Babin replicates his year last year, that's a scary dline.

Giantsfan1080
08-12-2011, 04:49 PM
I didn't get to watch but I'm not taking anything out of a preseason game. We'll see how they do when they line up Week 1. I still think their LB corps is worse off than ours and we'll see about the d-line. Washburn should help but they new D-coord who's never coached a defense ever is not going to be a plus right away.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2011, 05:08 PM
My appreciation for Washburn actually stems from last year, watching that Titan defense play the East for 4 games. I got a good chance to really put the eyeball on that scheme and I liked some aspects of it.

This is going to be a Jim Washburn defense, not a Juan Castillo defense. The Titan's defense last year, that's basically what the Eagles will run.

It's not going to be a Cover 2 defense. I guess perhaps calling it a man Cover 2 would be more appropriate.

Giantsfan1080
08-12-2011, 05:09 PM
My appreciation for Washburn actually stems from last year, watching that Titan defense play the East for 4 games. I got a good chance to really put the eyeball on that scheme and I liked some aspects of it.

This is going to be a Jim Washburn defense, not a Juan Castillo defense. The Titan's defense last year, that's basically what the Eagles will run.

It's not going to be a Cover 2 defense. I guess perhaps calling it a man Cover 2 would be more appropriate.

Castillo will still be calling the plays and we have no idea what that's going to look like.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2011, 05:13 PM
Castillo will still be calling the plays and we have no idea what that's going to look like.

It's going to be a simple defense. He really isn't going to throw the playbook at us, so we'll know what's coming for the most part.

Lot's of man coverage.

That's why beefing up that secondary was so key for them. They're hoping their talent is enough that you don't need smoke and mirrors on defense to succeed.

You'll see some decent blitzes too. Don't forget, Juan was an oline coach. The reason why Reid hired him was bc he felt that Juan can cook up some effective blitzes bc of his knowledge of pass protections.

Jim Johnson would regularly go to Juan Castillo and go over his blitzes with him to see if they would work. Juan isn't as inexperienced as people think. I'm not saying the guy is going to be Spagnuolo, but with the talent on that defense, and the system they'll be running, he really won't need to do much.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2011, 05:16 PM
And making the switch isn't as crazy as people think. Everyone forgets that Josh McDaniels started his career out as a defensive coach, working as the DB coach for the Patriots.

It's been done before. It's not as crazy as we think.

Giantsfan1080
08-12-2011, 05:20 PM
And making the switch isn't as crazy as people think. Everyone forgets that Josh McDaniels started his career out as a defensive coach, working as the DB coach for the Patriots.

It's been done before. It's not as crazy as we think.

Yeah but he didn't make the jump from DB coach straight to O-Coord in 1 year.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2011, 05:22 PM
That is true too. I dunno, I just don't see how their defense won't be better this year than it was last year. The talent has been greatly improved and the scheme is improved too.

If Juan sucks at calling plays, I can see Dick Jauron taking over that. Reid won't let Juan Castillo cost him the season.

Giantsfan1080
08-12-2011, 05:24 PM
Look at the talent we have on D yet Sheridan totally screwed it up. Let's hope Castillo does something similar.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-12-2011, 05:26 PM
Yes! Let's hope Castillo mimics Sheridan! Or Tim Lewis! Or Jonnie Lynn! Come on!

Todd Bertuzzi
08-12-2011, 05:26 PM
That is true too. I dunno, I just don't see how their defense won't be better this year than it was last year. The talent has been greatly improved and the scheme is improved too.

If Juan sucks at calling plays, I can see Dick Jauron taking over that. Reid won't let Juan Castillo cost him the season.

Unfotunately Jauron is in Cleveland now but I'm not worried about Castillo. Like you said JJ regularly confided in him when he was our DC and I have all the faith in the world in him. Our secondary doesn't need much coaching as it is(other than the two young safeties) and Washburn will handle the d-line. I'm not too worried about our linebackers either as it isn't that important a position in our system and never has been.

The players love him too. He's always so fired up and enthusiastic. Yesterday when Jarrett had his pick Castillo was one of the first guys over congratulating him along with all the players.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2011, 05:31 PM
Unfotunately Jauron is in Cleveland now but I'm not worried about Castillo. Like you said JJ regularly confided in him when he was our DC and I have all the faith in the world in him. Our secondary doesn't need much coaching as it is(other than the two young safeties) and Washburn will handle the d-line. I'm not too worried about our linebackers either as it isn't that important a position in our system and never has been.

You guys are gonna be light vs the run. That should be your concern. You need your CBs to tackle, which will be a problem with Asante and DRC, and you'll regularly pack the box to make up for your lack of size in the front 7.

Also Washburn's attacking style is feast or famine in the run game. They'll either penetrate and blow up the run behind the LOS, or you're going to get gashed.

This defense emphasizes speed. It's all about speed. You guys gave up a lot of muscle for speed, so it's going to be great vs the pass, but you can be had on the ground.

The way the league is going, it's probably better overall. But in the East, it could be problematic. I think by having 3 CBs that can be trusted on an island though, you'll try to make up for that by packing the box with 8 and 9 guys.

It's going to be interesting. I'm looking forward to studying it.

scottyboy
08-12-2011, 07:58 PM
guys I know why we let Steve Smith walk...we're just gonna draft Sanu next year. Mario will walk.

Nicks-Sanu-Jernigan.

oh god, faptastic

Forenci
08-13-2011, 05:44 AM
guys I know why we let Steve Smith walk...we're just gonna draft Sanu next year. Mario will walk.

Nicks-Sanu-Jernigan.

oh god, faptastic

I will destroy your soul.

JBCX
08-13-2011, 09:02 AM
You guys are gonna be light vs the run. That should be your concern. You need your CBs to tackle, which will be a problem with Asante and DRC, and you'll regularly pack the box to make up for your lack of size in the front 7.

Also Washburn's attacking style is feast or famine in the run game. They'll either penetrate and blow up the run behind the LOS, or you're going to get gashed.

This defense emphasizes speed. It's all about speed. You guys gave up a lot of muscle for speed, so it's going to be great vs the pass, but you can be had on the ground.

The way the league is going, it's probably better overall. But in the East, it could be problematic. I think by having 3 CBs that can be trusted on an island though, you'll try to make up for that by packing the box with 8 and 9 guys.

It's going to be interesting. I'm looking forward to studying it.

It'll be just like the Colts defenses of years past - as long as Vick puts points on the board, the opposing team is forced to ignore small gains in the running game and will begin to pass the ball, which plays into the hands of the aggressive pass rush.

Remember that Sunday Night game last year the Giants played vs. the Colts? If I remember correctly, Peyton threw a few touchdown passes and then the rest of the game, Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis went to work on Diehl and McKenzie, sacking Eli a few times and forcing a fumble or two. The Giants couldn't get any offense started because they were in a hole and didn't have time to allow the running game to develop, which forced Eli to sit back and pass and made him a sitting duck for the Indy edge rushers.

That's the way the Eagles-Giants games will look like this year if the Giants give up any early touchdowns.

Of course, if the Giants defense can come through early and keep Vick and the WRs bottled up, your plan to attack the aggressive front with run plays, draw plays and screens will be more effective.

bigbluedefense
08-13-2011, 10:10 AM
I would love Sanu on the Giants and be very open to the idea now that we lost Smith.

He reminds me of Nicks a lot.

bigbluedefense
08-13-2011, 10:15 AM
It'll be just like the Colts defenses of years past - as long as Vick puts points on the board, the opposing team is forced to ignore small gains in the running game and will begin to pass the ball, which plays into the hands of the aggressive pass rush.

Remember that Sunday Night game last year the Giants played vs. the Colts? If I remember correctly, Peyton threw a few touchdown passes and then the rest of the game, Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis went to work on Diehl and McKenzie, sacking Eli a few times and forcing a fumble or two. The Giants couldn't get any offense started because they were in a hole and didn't have time to allow the running game to develop, which forced Eli to sit back and pass and made him a sitting duck for the Indy edge rushers.

That's the way the Eagles-Giants games will look like this year if the Giants give up any early touchdowns.

Of course, if the Giants defense can come through early and keep Vick and the WRs bottled up, your plan to attack the aggressive front with run plays, draw plays and screens will be more effective.

I think your defense is much better than the Colts. Yeah it's built light and built on speed so in that sense they're the same, but your secondary is so much better. You can pack the box more frequently bc of your CBs.

I think Casey Matthews is going to be an integral key to this defense. If he winds up being a very good MIKE, your defense is set. If he's average, then you have a serious problem at LB.

Your dline and secondary will be dominant, just like ours, but just like our defense, you lack credibility in that LB core, just like ours.

Our teams really are mirror images of one another. You guys just have more star power. Should be an exciting season if we both can stay healthy.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-13-2011, 10:16 AM
I would love Sanu on the Giants and be very open to the idea now that we lost Smith.

He reminds me of Nicks a lot.

How are you feeling now? Calmed down a bit? : P

scottyboy
08-13-2011, 10:20 AM
I will destroy your soul.

SANUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

you can't tell me that's not a sexy young WR core

bigbluedefense
08-13-2011, 10:20 AM
How are you feeling now? Calmed down a bit? : P

I'm still upset, and honestly that won't ever go away. To me it's inexcusable to allow Smith to walk to the Eagles.

But as far as this year is concerned, we'll be ok. We basically were gonna play most of the year without him anyway, and we finally will get to see one of those "potential" guys who've been rotting on the bench either step up or wash out.

We won't be as potent on offense, but hopefully that will force us to commit to the run more than we have the past 2 years. We rebuilt the oline, so I expect our run game to improve as a result.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-13-2011, 10:21 AM
Someone posted this on BBI

Anyone find this shady?

Ben Dogra in bed with Eagles ? ....
Manny in CA : 8/12/2011 11:57 pm
Five out of the six "names" that the Eagles signed are his gys -

Jason Babin - Rosenhaus

Nnamdi Asomugha - Dogra

Steve Smith - Dogra

DR Cromartie - Dogra

Ronnie Brown - Dogra

Cullen Jenkins - Dogra

mellojello
08-13-2011, 02:08 PM
Wanted to get Giants fans thoughts here, but if Steve Smith is healthy, do you think that he can stretch the field enough in the Eagles offfense to the point where it will be effective enough to win? If so, it might not make financial sense for the Birds to resign Jackson at the money he's probably goint to want and will get in FA. Plus, a lot of Bird fans seem to think that Maclin is going to be the better receiver anyways.

LTgiants
08-13-2011, 02:14 PM
Steve Smith is not really a deep threat. He works his best in the slot and the short intermediate areas. He will not be able to replace Desean for you.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-13-2011, 02:18 PM
Wanted to get Giants fans thoughts here, but if Steve Smith is healthy, do you think that he can stretch the field enough in the Eagles offfense to the point where it will be effective enough to win? If so, it might not make financial sense for the Birds to resign Jackson at the money he's probably goint to want and will get in FA. Plus, a lot of Bird fans seem to think that Maclin is going to be the better receiver anyways.

No, he isn't a vertical threat. He basically finds holes in the coverage and can attack a defense that way. He is not the guy you use to take the top of the coverage if you have other guys.

That's assuming Maclin's illness isn't very serious.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-13-2011, 02:46 PM
The Unsung Hero In The Nnamdi Asomugha Acquisition: Ben Dogra

http://philly.sbnation.com/2011/8/2/2339463/the-unsung-hero-in-the-nnamdi-asomugha-acquisition-ben-dogra

Forenci
08-13-2011, 04:38 PM
So what will you guys be focusing on tonight? I don't pay attention to the overall performance of the games, or some of the individual performances, but do think there are some positions you can try and look at an evaluate.

I think the biggest guys to watch will be any of the WR's not named Manningham and Nicks. Should be a great battle for the slot spot with several guys capable of winning it.

OL/DL should be interesting too. Beatty had the LT position spot locked down in training camp but basically lost it for terrible play in pre-season. But he's bulked up and supposedly been pretty good in training camp. Plus it'll be good to get a look at Petrus again.

Defensively, I really want to see Linval and Marvin Austin.

LTgiants
08-13-2011, 04:45 PM
the lineman I will be watching are Baas and Joseph. I also want to see how Da'rell Scott and Andre Brown look out there.

OSUGiants17
08-13-2011, 04:45 PM
So what will you guys be focusing on tonight? I don't pay attention to the overall performance of the games, or some of the individual performances, but do think there are some positions you can try and look at an evaluate.

I think the biggest guys to watch will be any of the WR's not named Manningham and Nicks. Should be a great battle for the slot spot with several guys capable of winning it.

OL/DL should be interesting too. Beatty had the LT position spot locked down in training camp but basically lost it for terrible play in pre-season. But he's bulked up and supposedly been pretty good in training camp. Plus it'll be good to get a look at Petrus again.

Defensively, I really want to see Linval and Marvin Austin.

All of our rookies(drafted and undrafted). Mainly Austin, JJ, Herzy, Hynoski, Sash, Linval, Cruz and Sintim

NY+Giants=NYG
08-13-2011, 05:09 PM
offense!!!!!

Personnel packages! I want to see who is playing X Z and Y.

Forenci
08-14-2011, 08:50 AM
So what'd you guys think? I didn't get to see the last quarter (DVR'd it, going to watch it later) but overall I liked a lot of what I saw.

Beatty seemed to hold his own and do so impressively. I still think his run blocking is only average, but honestly I think we can get away with it as we have several maulers on the line to handle that, and his main goal is to keep Eli standing up.

Favorite part of last night was JPP by far. He's really hard not to like as a player. They mentioned it on the broadcast but he is fun to watch because he has a non-stop motor when he plays. I'm not even necessarily talking about the sacks either, as he was going up against Gross early and often and was getting pressure. I'm excited to see what he can do this year.

Honestly, I thought all the WR's looked good for the most part. Hixon is probably the front runner to take the slot position. He looked really good last night I thought. Nicks is what he is: a beast. I loved when Carolina tried to use press coverage on him and he just shrugged the DB off like he was nothing. He's so damn strong. I liked what Devin Thomas showed too. I was really big on him coming out of college, so I'm hoping he can step up, in addition to his special teams play.

As for the other guys, I'm just not sure they got enough snaps to be noticed as much. Victor Cruz made a great play on special teams which probably doesn't hurt his chances for being on the roster. I'm kind of wondering who will be the odd man out this year.

Secondary looks good. Carolina broke off a couple runs but I feel like we kept them contained for the most part. I didn't get as good a look as I wanted at some of the LBers and DT's. Hoping you guys can enlighten me more in that regard, haha.

bigbluedefense
08-14-2011, 11:39 AM
I have to go back and watch again but some quick hits:

-JPP is a beast. I can't wait to see what this guy does this year. I almost want him to start over Osi. If he plays like that all season, hell, he probably should. Of course he won't, but still, you can't help but get excited about him. He's going to be a monster.

-Joseph looked beastly too. He's an upgrade over Coffield. He's the NT we've been looking for.

-Kiwi looked a little lost in coverage and he didn't beat his man on the blitz as much as I'd like. He needs more practice. But so far the early results from that aren't looking too hot.

-Austin had his ups and downs. He'll be a good player. I liked his motor.

-Brewer is a monster of a man but really needs work. Project, but he could pan out to be a good project in our farm system.

-Piss poor tackling. I'll cough it up to PS, but I want to see that cleaned up.

-Special teams is horrible. That's a concern. No one stays in their lanes.

-Didn't like the coverage schemes. But it's PS, so I don't expect us to run those soft zones in the regular season.

-Ross looked bad. Sash had his ups and downs.

-LB could be a problem again. Issues like that don't fix themselves. We need a linebacker.

-Jacobs looks good. Our RB stable looks good. Oline needs more time to gel.

-WR core looks average. Nicks is a beast, Mario is inconsistent, nobody emerged as a solid 3 yet. I know Hixon had a good game, but he did it vs off coverage. Every time he was pressed, he couldn't separate. That's always been his problem and that won't change.

-Eli wasn't particularly accurate.

I need to watch the game a couple of times to get a real good gauge of it but so far that's my initial thoughts.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-14-2011, 04:43 PM
How Personnel Packages work. PP from PS game 1 NYG/PAN


Here are some personnel packages we used last night.. We saw a mix of skill players getting moved around playing the X, Z, Y positions. As you can see this analysis gives us good insight as to what the coaches are thinking when they move players around within the personnel groupings of this offensive system.

When the avg fan thinks of WRs, and the "lineup" they think it's a linear type function. For example:

# 1 - Nicks
# 2 - Manningham
# 3 - Hixon, Darius R., Cruz, Devin T

And let's say Hixon wins the # 3 spot. Fans tend to think this is it. Always when we go 3 wide it's going to be this specific line up everytime.

However, in any offense from HS or D3 to NFL, you have a bunch of personnel groupings used within an offensive system, which gets installed each week.

So the above grouping can be designated:

"REGULAR"

So when we call a play, and say REGULAR, I PRO Slot left.

That means we are using REGULAR personnel group. We could use another one where things are moved around. For example,

"SPEED"

X - Nicks
Z - Hixon
Y - Manningham

So now the "slot" is Manningham. During the course of the game people are getting moved around. I have seen Plax in the slot, Toomer in the slot, and so on.








Here are a bunch..

1st Team:

Formation: Weak I Left

2 WR ; 1 FB ; 1 RB ; 1 TE

X - Nicks
Z - Manningham
Y - Ballard

# 2 Back - Bear P
# 3 Back - Bradshaw


Formation: Ace - Double Tight

2 WR ; 1 RB ; 2 TE ; 0 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Manningham
Y1 - BP
Y2 - Ballard


Formation: Shotgun Left - Trips Right

4 WR ; 0 TE ; 1 RB ; 0 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Hixon
F/H ( Inside WR Position) - Manningham
Y - Bear P


Formation: I Pro Left

2 WR ; 1 TE; 1 RB ; 1 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Manningham
Y - Bear P.

Formation: Shotgun - Splitback Slot Left

3 WR ; 2 RB ; 0 TE ; 0 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Hixon
Y - Manningham

# 2 - Ware
# 3 - Bradshaw

Formation: I Pro Right Wing Right

1 WR ; 2 TE ; 1 FB ; 1 RB

X - Nicks
Y1 - Ballard
Y2 - # 48

# 2 - Bear P
# 3 - Bradshaw


Formation: Shotgun Left - Trips Right

4 WR ; 0 TE ; 1 RB ; 0 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Hixon
F/H - Manningham
Y - Bear P



2nd UNIT



Formation: Strong I Left

2 WR ; 1 TE ; 1 FB ; 1 RB

X - Hixon
Z - Cruz
Y - Bear P

# 2 - # 41
# 3 - ??


Formation: Ace - Slot Left Strong Right

3 WR ; 1 Rb ; 1 TE ; 0 FB

X - Hixon
Z - Darius R.
F/H - Cruz
Y - Bear P


Formation: Shotgun Left - Trips Right

4 WR ; 0 TE ; 1 RB ; 0 FB

X - Hixon
Z - Darius R
F/H - Cruz
Y - Bear P


Formation: Weak I Left

2 WR ; 1 FB ; 1 RB ; 1 TE

X - Darius
Z - Hixon
Y - Bear P

# 2 Back - # 41
# 3 Back - ??

Darius starts out as X however this play has TE motion making the TE go from the left to the right the formation. This causes Darius to be Z and Hixon to be X, which would make sense because when Plax went down Hixon was the backup X. As you can see, he played X a lot this game.



Formation: Ace - Double Tight

2 WR ; 1 RB ; 2 TE ; 0 FB

X - Devin Thomas
Z - Cruz
Y1 - ?
Y2 - # 46

NY+Giants=NYG
08-14-2011, 04:43 PM
Preseason game 1: Giants-Panthers Formation Guide

Here are the formations used tonight. The coverage was so ****** tonight. Camera man focusing on the ball, player's asses or faces, while the play is being ran. So you missed what formations were called on a bunch.

Anyways, I counted 64 total plays. I tried to write before the ball was snapped so some might be off. I recorded the game, but don't feel like watching that **** over again unless I think of something.

Summary:

We basically lived in the "I Formation" family of formations. We saw a lot of Y Trips and regular Trips. We stuck with our Ace - Double slot too. When we wanted to go 3 WR, we went with Quads Right.

Hope this helps in comparing this to other games.

1. Strong I Right
2. Weak I Left
3. Strong I Right
4 Weak I Left
5 Ace - Double Tight
6 Shotgun - Y Trips Right
7 Bad Camera Angle so I missed it
8 I Pro Left
9 Split Back Slot Left
10 I Pro Right Wing Right
11 Double Slot ???
12 Y Trips Right
13 ????
14 I Pro Right
15 Shotgun - Y Trips Right
16 I Pro Left, motion TE ---& gt; I Pro Right
17 I Pro Left
18 Shotgun - Quads Right (TE Right, Slot Left)
19 2nd UNIT I Pro Left Wing Left
20 Weak I Right
21 Single Back (Ace) - Strong Right, Slot Left
22 Shotgun Left - Y Trips Right
23 Strong I Right
24 I Pro Right
25 I Pro Right
26 Shotgun - Quads Right
27 Shotgun - Quads Right
28 Shotgun - Y Trips Left
29 Shotgun Left - Quads Right
30 Shotgun Left - Quads Right

HALFTIME


31 I Pro Right
32 Weak I Left
33 Weak I Left, Motion FB Left ----& gt; Strong I Left
34 Strong I Right, Motion FB Left -----& gt; Weak I Right
35 Shotgun - Trips Right Empty
36 Play in Action - Victor Cruz Highlight
37 Shotgun - Double Slot
38 Shotgun - Bunch Right
39 Ace - Double Tight
40 I Pro Left
41 I Pro Left
42 I Pro Right
43 Shotgun left - Double Slot
44 Ace - Double Tight
45 I Pro Right
46 Bad Angle
47 Shotgun Right - Double Slot
48 Missed the play. I was posting.. Inc. pass though
49 I Pro right
50 Shotgun Left - Trips Left
51 Perriloux comes in: Strong I Left
52 Strong I Left
53 Strong I Left
54 Shotgun Left - Trips Right
55 Weak I Right
56 Weak I Right
57 Shotgun Right - Trips Left
58 Shotgun Left - Double Slot
59 Shotgun Left - Quads Right
60 Shotgun Left - Double Slot
61 Shotgun Left - Double Slot
62 Shotgun Right - Y Trips Left
63 Shotgun Left - Quads Right
64 Shotgun Left - Trips Right

scottyboy
08-14-2011, 05:44 PM
Whenever Boss/Shocking/NYG posts like that...it makes my fandom feel so inadequate. damn.

also, there's this, courtsey of BBI:

APTCan TOM CANAVAN
Osi Umenyiora tells AP that he will practice with the Giants on Monday and that he will play under his old contract.

****. yes

NY+Giants=NYG
08-14-2011, 05:51 PM
Whenever Boss/Shocking/NYG posts like that...it makes my fandom feel so inadequate. damn.

also, there's this, courtsey of BBI:

APTCan TOM CANAVAN
Osi Umenyiora tells AP that he will practice with the Giants on Monday and that he will play under his old contract.

****. yes



Just some of my stuff I did for the game. Also, I been seeing some stuff about the slot WR. So I wanted to address that via usage of personnel packages in football


As for the Osi thing, this sums it up the best!

http://perculaclown.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/skeptical_hippo.jpg

scottyboy
08-14-2011, 05:56 PM
haha i love that picture.

and I think it was the JPP factor. With JPP looking super last night, Osi knows he's just losing leverage and fast. But you know what? Just get him on the field. Him, Kiwi, Tuck and JPP? yea, 4 aces coming at you. 3rd and longs are going to be a LOT of fun to watch

Jughead10
08-14-2011, 06:12 PM
-Eli wasn't particularly accurate.


That one throw to Nicks was right on the money and would have been a huge gain if the CB didn't interfere. No PI called. Refs were in preseason mode too.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-14-2011, 06:14 PM
haha i love that picture.

and I think it was the JPP factor. With JPP looking super last night, Osi knows he's just losing leverage and fast. But you know what? Just get him on the field. Him, Kiwi, Tuck and JPP? yea, 4 aces coming at you. 3rd and longs are going to be a LOT of fun to watch

Hahaha me too! I see it posted on BBI at times, so I thought I'd post it. It's a great picture. Makes me laugh all the time.

Perhaps JPP playing well caused him to want to play.

Maybe lack of options now since his knee is fine so he can't have surgery.

It just seems a little too quiet too soon after all the drama. Hence, I am very skeptical and my friend articulates my reaction perfectly! Haha

Jughead10
08-14-2011, 06:26 PM
Whether you call it slot or Y, there isn't much of a difference in more basic formations, I'm not in love with Manningham playing that position. Maybe I've just been spoiled with Smith's route running but Mario rounds off his routes way too much. It allowed a CB to make a play on the ball in the first quarter. Smith shakes that CB.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-14-2011, 06:38 PM
Whether you call it slot or Y, there is much of a difference in more basic formations, I'm not in love with Manningham playing that position. Maybe I've just been spoiled with Smith's route running but Mario rounds off his routes way too much. It allowed a CB to make a play on the ball in the first quarter. Smith shakes that CB.

Slot can be Y if there is no TE.. TE is normally Y.

If there is a TE then it could labeled F or H, hence F/H. Depends on the system you are in.

Not to pick on you, you know I think you are a good poster, but that's always an interesting fan comment. Making blanket statements on route running. The truth is you nor I have the WR route book. So we don't know how it's written. Also, there is a degree of real time, I guess margin for error. These are human beings in a specific system where you have to use your brain with choice and option routes. These guys are not robots.

An example would be my TEs. Now this is D3, but this happens across all levels. An under route is a route where you literally are running behind the heels of the DL. So perhaps 2-3 yard depth and fast, and don't gain depth.

I ran that with my group and everyone ran it perfectly in practice. Come game day.... It was comical! I had my guys gaining depth on it. Some of the plays we scored and it was great.

But the avg fan had no clue is my point. Some routes are drawn up differently, the main thing is to focus on the WR book and see what it says. Since the system is hard stuff that like may be forgiven if the read is right. You can run robotic routes, but if you can't understand the choice and option routes than it's pointless.

I remember reading Smith doing his own thing and finding the soft spot. That can be a bad thing if you are not teaching it, but if the concept of the read is right, and he is being creative and its working, then the route itself doesn't matter, because the read was right.

Jughead10
08-14-2011, 06:46 PM
Slot can be Y if there is no TE.. TE is normally Y.

If there is a TE then it could labeled F or H, hence F/H. Depends on the system you are in.

Not to pick on you, you know I think you are a good poster, but that's always an interesting fan comment. Making blanket statements on route running. The truth is you nor I have the WR route book. So we don't know how it's written. Also, there is a degree of real time, I guess margin for error. These are human beings in a specific system where you have to use your brain with choice and option routes. These guys are not robots..

That's the issue right there.

Giantsfan1080
08-14-2011, 07:30 PM
That's the issue right there.


Haha, I was waiting for that.

Jughead10
08-14-2011, 07:34 PM
Haha, I was waiting for that.

It's the truth though. Even if he was a genius, I still think his skill set is best used outside the hash marks. Obviously him and Smith are very different players. We are going to need someone to help fill at least some of the hole Smith's departure has created. I just don't think Mario is that guy. Let Mario be Mario and hopefully Hixon or someone else can step up in that role.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-14-2011, 07:50 PM
That's the issue right there.

That's the thing though. He hasn't done it wrong. If so, he would not be starting or even on the team if that's the case.

Jughead10
08-14-2011, 07:53 PM
That's the thing though. He hasn't done it wrong. If so, he would not be starting or even on the team if that's the case.

His talent gets him by. And from what I can see, correct me if I'm wrong as of course I don't have access to the playbook, but he seems to run the least option routes of anyone. At least last year. I'm sure that will probably have to change with Smith gone.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-14-2011, 08:08 PM
His talent gets him by. And from what I can see, correct me if I'm wrong as of course I don't have access to the playbook, but he seems to run the least option routes of anyone. At least last year. I'm sure that will probably have to change with Smith gone.

I am not sure about the option route thing. I don't want to speculate, but if they put you in the slot and outside, then they have to have faith in you.

Doesn't matter how much talent you have. If you can't run the right route, you won't play. The fact he is playing.... starting....AND playing two different positions with different trees AND adjustments and rules, is a big thing.

The coaches trust him, yet the fans don't for reason. I find that interesting.

JBCX
08-14-2011, 10:04 PM
Man, I can't believe how good JPP looks. Did any one of you guys actually like the pick when he was drafted? I know every Giants fan I knew around that time almost universally hated the pick because JPP looked like a classic bust.

scottyboy
08-15-2011, 07:20 AM
I hated it for 2 reasons: I'm a believer in production in college, which was one off jpp's biggest knocks...and that he was from usf. I also thought de wasn't a need, but that was also hoping sintim would pan out an osi, tuck and kiwi would be our de's.

Jughead10
08-15-2011, 07:57 AM
I hated it for 2 reasons: I'm a believer in production in college, which was one off jpp's biggest knocks...and that he was from usf. I also thought de wasn't a need, but that was also hoping sintim would pan out an osi, tuck and kiwi would be our de's.

Did he have a fall out with USF? I've seen a bunch of times as him being listed from College of Canyons. Unless everyone is using Giants.com for that info.

Giantsfan1080
08-15-2011, 09:05 AM
Did he have a fall out with USF? I've seen a bunch of times as him being listed from College of Canyons. Unless everyone is using Giants.com for that info.

I haven't heard anything about that. I hated the pick at the time also just because he was so raw and I felt we needed someone who could step in right away and play.

Rosebud
08-15-2011, 09:30 AM
Man, I can't believe how good JPP looks. Did any one of you guys actually like the pick when he was drafted? I know every Giants fan I knew around that time almost universally hated the pick because JPP looked like a classic bust.

I remember me, BBD and somebody else were really excited. The kid has a good head on his shoulders so while he was super raw, there were a lot of positive signs to go with his fantastic body control, flexibility, strength, length and explosiveness.

BigBlueNorwegian
08-15-2011, 09:46 AM
I was unsure about what to think of the JPP pick at the time. On one hand, I didn't like it because I thought we had bigger needs, like MLB, safety and DT, but on the other hand I couldn't be very critical. Spiller, McClain and Earl Thomas were already off the board, so the only player i could realistically see us take instead of JPP was Dan Williams. But JR went for value, and it looks like that was a great decision.

He really knows how to nail his first round picks( except for maybe Ross, but he looked very good for a while as well).

NY+Giants=NYG
08-15-2011, 10:04 AM
I HATED the pick! Another damn DE!!! Really?! When we had Osi, Tuck and Kiwi.. However, I understood the pick because we go BPA. He was clearly ranked very high on our board. Plus he is a defensive player... Blah!

Go offense in the first round!

Giantsfan1080
08-16-2011, 09:39 AM
We're going to re-sign Deon Grant. I like it he played that hybrid role for us perfect last year. Sash can learn for one more year and then jump into that next year. The more depth the better!

BaLLiN
08-16-2011, 10:55 AM
i mightve been the third person who like the pick, but i was skeptical. I didn't like that he had only a little production and that we didnt pick a position of need, but from what i saw he used very good leverage had great measurables and could play both run and pass although he wasnt as adept vs the run.

I wanted Anthony Davis from Rutgers despite his character concerns.

Jughead10
08-16-2011, 10:56 AM
i mightve been the third person who like the pick, but i was skeptical. I didn't like that he had only a little production and that we didnt pick a position of need, but from what i saw he used very good leverage had great measurables and could play both run and pass although he wasnt as adept vs the run.

I wanted Anthony Davis from Rutgers despite his character concerns.

Yeah I didn't like it at all. I wanted to trade down and take Bulaga.

Giantsfan1080
08-16-2011, 12:15 PM
I wanted Derrick Morgan so I didn't mind we took a DE I just didn't like the one we took.

OSUGiants17
08-16-2011, 03:06 PM
While we are on the topic I figured I would re-post this here


I guess these guys turned out good then...

Kiwi

JPP

are the two big ones..It's not the talent itself, but rather the damn position. Did we really need another DE??! Come on now! It's ok not to draft a defensive player in the first round for once. Not going to kill us!

Curse you BBD! I blame you for this!

Same, I hated those 2 picks. When we traded back with Santonio Holmes still on the board(my favorite Ohio State player in a long time) I flipped out. Then when we took a DE with Strahan, Osi and Tuck on the roster I was livid. Kiwi has grown on me big time now and I love the guy, but it took him awhile to gain my respect(not that it means **** to him lol) especially after the failed sack on Vince Young.

The JPP I was mad because I saw it coming and still didn't want to believe it. I wasn't nearly as mad as I was with the Kiwi pick. I was older and had been watching the game for longer now and knew that it was a pick for the future with Osi getting older and Kiwi having only 1 year left on his contract. I so badly wanted Bulaga, Dan Williams, Iupati, Weatherspoon or Pouncey. Hell pretty much anyone that whent in the first after JPP lol. But, not even a week after draft day I grew to love the pick and couldn't wait to see him play. Guy is gonna be a beast for us over the next couple years.

Rosebud
08-16-2011, 06:17 PM
I just loved JPP, didn't even think we'd get a chance to pick him. He's got so much raw talent and the kid always played hard. Yeah he was dumb and raw, but for us? We could teach a downs kid to rush the passer if he had the physical tools. Plus JPP seemed Forrest Gump stupid, and by that I mean a guy who may be a tard, but he's going to work ******* hard at whatever you tell him to do because he knows he's not too good at the coming up with things part.

bigbluedefense
08-16-2011, 06:49 PM
The only DE I liked more than JPP was Brandon Graham. I LOVED Brandon Graham.

But while I loved Graham, I always knew JPP has more potential. I loved JPP bc he's a physical freak with a crazy motor. What's not to like? Sure he's raw, but it's more important to be athletic as a DE than have good technique. You can teach technique, but not length and speed.

Besides, how hard is it to rush the passer? It's not rocket science. Hey JPP, go chase the football. If I could train a Puma to rush the passer, I'd draft it.

Giantsfan1080
08-16-2011, 06:51 PM
I will admit I 100% overlooked the fact that JPP was a known hard worker who had the desire and motor to improve his game. Even though he was as raw as he was I should have known better because of those traits. I wasn't wrong on Morgan though either who was doing a very good job with the Titans last year before he was injured.

bigbluedefense
08-16-2011, 06:55 PM
I liked Derrick Morgan. He reminded me of Tuck in some ways.

I just thought he had limited upside, and I thought Graham was better than him. Don't forget, before the draft, Morgan was projected to go higher than Graham. So I was under the assumption that both would be on the board at the same time for us, and I would rather have Graham in that situation.

Giantsfan1080
08-16-2011, 06:57 PM
I loved Graham as well. We'll probably never know his true potential because of the type of injury he sustained last year.

Rosebud
08-16-2011, 06:58 PM
I will admit I 100% overlooked the fact that JPP was a known hard worker who had the desire and motor to improve his game. Even though he was as raw as he was I should have known better because of those traits. I wasn't wrong on Morgan though either who was doing a very good job with the Titans last year before he was injured.

Morgan's good, but I still wouldn't give up the special talent we have in JPP for Morgan. JPP could be the best in the league, with his length, strength athleticism and flexibility the kid can become as good as they get if he keeps working on his game the way he is.

Giantsfan1080
08-16-2011, 06:59 PM
JPP also could have looked so bad we'd be shopping for another DE already. It's a classic risk/reward situation. Since I felt going into last year the Giants were close to winning it all I wanted the safer bet who also did have some upside even though it's not near JPP.

OSUGiants17
08-16-2011, 07:05 PM
I hated Graham and I still do!

NY+Giants=NYG
08-16-2011, 10:23 PM
All 25 Eli Manning Interceptions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

Someone on BBI posted this.. I count 7-9 on WRs, the rest on Eli.

LTgiants
08-16-2011, 10:33 PM
Giants sign K Rhys Lloyd

Forenci
08-17-2011, 06:16 AM
I remember me, BBD and somebody else were really excited. The kid has a good head on his shoulders so while he was super raw, there were a lot of positive signs to go with his fantastic body control, flexibility, strength, length and explosiveness.

I loved the JPP pick! I've always felt any time you can get a high motor, athletic defensive player that you should go for it.

BigBlueNorwegian
08-17-2011, 10:01 AM
All 25 Eli Manning Interceptions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

Someone on BBI posted this.. I count 7-9 on WRs, the rest on Eli.

Interesting to see this. I counted 16 INTs that you could blame Eli fully or partially for. But some of those were desperation throws, and I have no problem with trying to make a play for your team when you're down big. like three of the picks against Green Bay(one of those weren't even an INT really, He stepped out of bounds but the Giants were out of challenges).

I fully believe he will throw between 12-17 INTs this year, and improve a lot. But I think he will also throw for less yards and TDs this year.

Malaka
08-17-2011, 12:29 PM
All 25 Eli Manning Interceptions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

Someone on BBI posted this.. I count 7-9 on WRs, the rest on Eli.

yeah well lets just take out 6 INTs. Had Eli thrown 31 TDs and 19 picks, absolutely all the casual fans and E!SPN would be saying how great of a year Eli had, and how he's going to get better.

Instead we just them whining about how Eli turns the ball over too much.

It makes me lol, but also gets me annoyed sometimes.

Giantsfan1080
08-17-2011, 12:43 PM
The reason Mario will never take that next step:

I’m surprised we haven’t seen more great grabs from WR Mario Manningham in his fourth camp, though today he had one when he leaped on an in cut inside CB Corey Webster and reached behind him to make the catch. “Nice grab, ‘rio,” his teammates yelled. But Manningham and QB Eli Manning just look to be a bit off right now. On one play, Manningham turned the wrong way and Manning threw 5 feet to his right.

Damix
08-17-2011, 02:15 PM
Boley been banged up the past few days. This UDFA Paysinger been making an impression.

Giantsfan1080
08-17-2011, 02:26 PM
I know Ingram has looked well in camp also but I didn't see much from them in the game. I thought Herzlich looked the best.

Giantsfan1080
08-17-2011, 06:04 PM
Sounds like more trouble from camp today in regards to guys running wrong routes. I can't believe we haven't simplified this system just a little bit over the years.

bigbluedefense
08-17-2011, 07:28 PM
Eli's not having a good camp guys. I'm starting to get concerned.

gpngc
08-17-2011, 08:50 PM
Anyone see the Francessa - Rolle interview on YES? If you did, you know why I'm bringing it up...

Giantsfan1080
08-17-2011, 08:56 PM
Eli's not having a good camp guys. I'm starting to get concerned.

Sounds like he's been mediocre but it also sounds like the system is killing us in preseason. Manningham and Beckum running the wrong routes the last 2 days.

Jughead10
08-17-2011, 09:26 PM
All 25 Eli Manning Interceptions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

Someone on BBI posted this.. I count 7-9 on WRs, the rest on Eli.

Personally I think it's a bit more than 7-9. 9 would be the low end. 21, 23, and were so frustrating. 23 and 24 we were so out of the game, Eli just didn't care and was forcing things for a miracle.

JBCX
08-18-2011, 09:09 AM
Eli misses Steve Smith because he was such a crisp route runner and Eli could depend on him being exactly where he was supposed to be.

Boss was also "safety valve" for Eli and losing both Boss and Smith means Eli has a much smaller margin for error now.

Giantsfan1080
08-18-2011, 11:37 AM
Anyone see the Francessa - Rolle interview on YES? If you did, you know why I'm bringing it up...

I saw it and I have no idea what you're talking about. I actually thought he came off much better than what I expected.

Jughead10
08-18-2011, 11:57 AM
I saw it and I have no idea what you're talking about. I actually thought he came off much better than what I expected.

Really. Rolle was avoiding making any real answer like the plague. You could tell 100% he was lying.

I think the questions caught him off guard. He should been expecting them.

Giantsfan1080
08-18-2011, 12:11 PM
Really. Rolle was avoiding making any real answer like the plague. You could tell 100% he was lying.

I think the questions caught him off guard. He should been expecting them.

I didn't care about the U stuff but he came off much more intelligent than I expected. Frankly I thought he would sound like a moron but I didn't get much of that. Terrell Thomas impressed me a ton in his interview.

Francesa is the worst interviewer ever though. He asks a question and the player/coach/GM/owner start to answer them and then before they get half way through he's answering it for him and already into the next question. I counted about 5 or 6 dirty looks from Kiwi, Eli, Reese, and some other that were getting ticked off about that.

Giantsfan1080
08-18-2011, 08:35 PM
Cotchery looking good tonight. I wonder if we even talked to him.

BaLLiN
08-18-2011, 08:46 PM
samuel gettin beat on a textbook fade, wheres the JBX or whatever his name is? Even though its preseason, hes a starter and Brown just began getting time, Samuel can be burned in man to man.

Edit: on a sidenote, sinorice moss returned a kick and didnt get scared going through the middle...

LTgiants
08-18-2011, 08:52 PM
It helps when Tom Quinn is not your ST coach.

Giantsfan1080
08-19-2011, 11:25 AM
Osi out 3-4 weeks with arthroscopic knee surgery. Glad to see they're doing this now so he'll be ready by Week 2.

Damix
08-19-2011, 11:34 AM
Just time to see more JPP!

Forenci
08-19-2011, 12:16 PM
Schefter said it could be up to six weeks, but I'm happy to see JPP get more time on the field.

Giantsfan1080
08-19-2011, 12:25 PM
Schefter said it could be up to six weeks, but I'm happy to see JPP get more time on the field.

I believe Coughlin said he might even be back for opening day. Regardless our schedule doesn't get hard until after the bye week so as long as he's back before then we should be fine. Like Damix said this is just more development time for JPP.

Giantsfan1080
08-19-2011, 01:30 PM
We're signing DT Jimmy Kennedy.

DI
08-22-2011, 01:26 PM
Any chance we can talk with Indy about a possible Rosenfels/Tamme swap? They have a desperate need for a quality backup quarterback and we have a cheaper option here already in Carr who already knows the system and they have Clark coming back healthy, capping the value of Tamme. Thoughts?

Jughead10
08-22-2011, 01:30 PM
Any chance we can talk with Indy about a possible Rosenfels/Tamme swap? They have a desperate need for a quality backup quarterback and we have a cheaper option here already in Carr who already knows the system and they have Clark coming back healthy, capping the value of Tamme. Thoughts?

While it makes a lot of sense. You rarely see deals like that go down in the NFL.

DI
08-22-2011, 01:35 PM
Yeah I know, but just like you said though, it makes a lot of sense and with the lack of quality quarterbacks on the market, you'd hope Jerry at least called Polian and Irsay to see if we could have a match.