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Jughead10
08-22-2011, 01:41 PM
Has Painter looked that bad? The Colts aren't winning anything if Peyton doesn't play. So does it really matter on their end?

Giantsfan1080
08-22-2011, 02:30 PM
Has Painter looked that bad? The Colts aren't winning anything if Peyton doesn't play. So does it really matter on their end?

They still have to try. When their owner is tweeting that need a verteran QB it seems like they're desperate.

DI
08-22-2011, 02:40 PM
Yeah from what I've seen, with pre-season highlights and what have you, and with the way Polian has talking about their backup situation, it definitely looks as if Painter and Orlovsky definitely have the Colts worrying.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-22-2011, 09:08 PM
T2 ACL out for the season..

Come on Ross. Get your butt back Prince!

D-Unit
08-22-2011, 09:09 PM
T2 ACL out for the season..

Come on Ross. Get your butt back Prince!
NO WAY. Wow... any other team, I'd say that's a devastating injury, but you guys are probably the deepest in the league at that position.

Still... must be tough on Thomas. He's my favorite player on the Giants.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-22-2011, 09:18 PM
It was a fluke one. It wasn't a run or like he was standing there. JPP dove and almost cut or leg whipped Thomas.

But now down him and Prince, even Prince will be back. Still it's a kick in the balls because TT was had a pro bowl year last year.

49ersfan_87
08-22-2011, 09:21 PM
How's Baas looking for you guys at C?

NY+Giants=NYG
08-22-2011, 09:58 PM
Good, I like the signing and in our scheme I think he can be as good if not better than O'hara.

Jughead10
08-22-2011, 10:03 PM
T2 ACL out for the season..

Come on Ross. Get your butt back Prince!

I thought Ross looked really good tonight. The best thing from him I saw was his body language. He looked pumped up and thrilled to be playing, which from reports apparently isn't always the case.

BaLLiN
08-22-2011, 10:15 PM
Da'Rell freakin scott, he looks like he has his lateral quickness back. His hip injuries hindered that, but he just looks like a gem already. WOW.

Losing Thomas really hurts, but signing back Grant and gaining a healthy Ross and eventually Prince will suffice.

Rookie linebackers look very good, Williams VERY fluid in coverage. Herzlich looking like he's near the homestretch of his recovery. Greg Jones making a nice stuff, getting great leverage on Marion the Barbarian.

Jernigan runs great stems on his routes, stutter was good and went straight back into his acceleration after the DB bit. He looks like he could eventually be our #2, putting him in the slot would be a waste IMO.

Giantsfan1080
08-22-2011, 10:21 PM
Witherspoon got hurt also. I guess this is the year for CB's to get hurt for us.

BigBlueNorwegian
08-23-2011, 03:43 AM
T2 ACL out for the season..

Come on Ross. Get your butt back Prince!

Witherspoon got hurt also. I guess this is the year for CB's to get hurt for us.

This is awful news. Last year going into the season we looked to be very deep at WR, and by week 10 we were signing guys off the streets. This year we will get the same treatment at CB like you said GF.

We are so cursed with getting all of our injuries at one position.

Witherspoon was looking great as well, how long is he out for?

Forenci
08-23-2011, 07:40 AM
What the ****? TT is done? God damn it. I didn't get to watch the game, anyone have a breakdown of it? (you know you want to BBD!)

Giantsfan1080
08-23-2011, 09:35 AM
So we've now lost our 2nd, 5th, and 6th CB's for the year and our 4th for about 2 months. This is one of the major problems I have with football where it's more a battle of attrition than who has the most talent.

Jughead10
08-23-2011, 09:41 AM
So we've now lost our 2nd, 5th, and 6th CB's for the year and our 4th for about 2 months. This is one of the major problems I have with football where it's more a battle of attrition than who has the most talent.

Is Witherspoon out for the year too?

Although I read their is optimism for Prince. Conservative reports had him back roughly week 5. Although he is having it re-examined in 2 weeks. Maybe we can get him back week 3 or 4. I'd hate to rush him though. Our schedule is pretty easy in the early stages.

Giantsfan1080
08-23-2011, 11:09 AM
Is Witherspoon out for the year too?

Although I read their is optimism for Prince. Conservative reports had him back roughly week 5. Although he is having it re-examined in 2 weeks. Maybe we can get him back week 3 or 4. I'd hate to rush him though. Our schedule is pretty easy in the early stages.

Early reports on Witherspoon were a sprained MCL. There is a lot of optimism about Prince but even then who knows how he's going to look. He had 0 camp time so I'm not sure he'll even be ready but thankfully our schedule is very eeasy first half.

These injuries to one position are just so frustrating.

Jughead10
08-23-2011, 11:23 AM
Early reports on Witherspoon were a sprained MCL. There is a lot of optimism about Prince but even then who knows how he's going to look. He had 0 camp time so I'm not sure he'll even be ready but thankfully our schedule is very eeasy first half.

These injuries to one position are just so frustrating.

One thing to consider is Rolle playing some CB in nickel but more so dime. Especially with Grant back in the picture. He provides some versatility.

Giantsfan1080
08-23-2011, 11:36 AM
Yeah and we can use Sash who looks like he's coming along nicely.

It would be nice to get a report on the game from TV perspective. From my view at the game I saw a lot of good things. The run blocking was excellent and Jacobs was showing a lot of burst like he had 3 years ago. Beatty did a very good job minus 2 passing plays where he got pushed back a little. I was very impressed with Thomas returning the ball. He caught it and just ran at the first hole he saw. Defensively Webster and Phillips had quite a few plays where they werent on the same page. It looked like Webster gave up his man thinking Phillips was supposed to be there but he wasn't. Not sure who to lay that on. If I think or more stuff as the day goes on I'll make a mention.

bigbluedefense
08-23-2011, 01:01 PM
So I was also at the game and this was my perspective, watching from the messanine area:

NOTE: I left at halftime.

-We have nobody who can command respect in the middle of the field. Eli had nothing in the middle, other than a nice pass inside to Mario where Cruz cleared out the zone which opened up Mario on a square in. Beckum was covered, Cruz wasn't running many inside routes and when he did and was open, the pressure got there before Eli could deliver it. Eli relied on a lot of sideline throws out and away, or curls. We had nothing deep because they took it away with a lot of 2 deep safety looks, and we had nothing inside bc we had no one who could consistently get open inside.

The inability to trust our inside pass catchers is going to be a major issue this year. Eli also missed a couple of passes. He hasn't been particularly sharp this summer.

Once Eli had Nicks wide open for a streak, Nicks beat his man inside and had position, but they brought pressure which forced Eli to roll right, and he was unable to throw across his body, so he just dumped it off. Not many opportunities for big plays though, Chicago took it away.

-Beatty looks like a keeper at LT. For the most part, he did a good job against Peppers and has been great all preseason. I'm starting to feel confident in him.

-Run game was great. Jacobs looks very good. He needs more touches, I've been saying it since last season. Bradshaw looked good too. Our oline opened some huge holes, I'm hoping our oline can get back to the dominant run blocking unit it once was.

-Very unimpressed with our TE, FB situation. Mediocre.

-Slot WR needs to make some noise. I felt we ran too many out routes with our slot. I want to see somebody work the middle. I don't see a guy that I trust to command the middle of the field yet. That could be a problem. In fact, it will be a problem, proof is in the pudding. Eli didn't have great numbers, and I don't see him having a great statistical season this year. If you can't throw in the middle of the field, you take away a big part of your offense.

-Beckum didn't look impressive. He ran right into the heart of the bracket coverage every time. I know the TE's job in our offense is to be a decoy that pulls coverage, but even then, he didn't do it with any urgency.

-Special teams looked much better. Better tackling, better angles. Good punts.

- Defense looked great. Kiwi looked great. The front 7 in general looked great. The plays that GF is taking about were Cover 2 plays. Kenny was just a step late each play. They ran fades, which makes it hard for that safety to get over and defend that sideline. And he got beat. That's why I hate Cover 2. Especially against a fast WR core like the Bears.

The Hester bomb was actually a bad pass. If it was thrown better it would have been a touchdown. That play Kenny cheated up a little prior to the snap, and Hester is so fast he just blew past both of them. Kenny was able to recover and make the tackle but had it been a better ball, that wouldve been 6.

-JPP had good pressure, but not like last week. Reality hit him. To be fair, last week he was never doubled. This week they slid protection his way often.

-Kiwi looked very solid. I paid attention to his drops in zone, he did a great job. He pursued the RB very well, he just looked great. I'm not saying he looked all pro, but nobody here expects that from him.

-Not as happy with the safeties. KP was a hair late on 2 plays I mentioned, and Rolle took some bad angles, in particular against Forte on his long screen pass. Not horrible, but they could be better, and I expect them to be better.

-I expect more out of Nicks. I want more consistency. More consistent hands, routes, production, everything. He's got all world talent, but he needs to show it on every snap.

-Goff looked good in his drops. He covered some decent ground. More than I expected.

-Joseph has more lateral agility than I thought. I was very impressed with his movements against stretch runs. He's an upgrade over Coffield.

-Ross looked good. He better stay that way. We need him now.

To give more details, I need to go back and watch the game on tv. That's all I got for now.

bigbluedefense
08-23-2011, 01:02 PM
And it goes without saying that losing Thomas is a HUGE blow. Huge. We have to hope we can survive for the first 7 weeks before Prince comes along. Even then, it's still a downgrade.

Huge loss.

bigbluedefense
08-23-2011, 01:09 PM
I'm no quarterback, but watching from the sky, I didn't see many plays where Eli had a guy open. Our guys just don't create that kind of seperation, and the routes were very basic.

Eli is going to be throwing in traffic all season. I'm worried about our pass game. We need to go back to smashmouth football this season. It's our best chance to win.

Giantsfan1080
08-23-2011, 01:42 PM
Thanks BBD for clearing the Webster/Phillips thing up. I was trying to focus on the D-Line for most of the game so by the time I looked back I missed what D we were in. I figured it was a Cover 2.

Linval looked really good out there also.

Damix
08-23-2011, 01:44 PM
It sucks that I thought that it was an overall positive game and had me feeling confident and then TT goes down so it is an net minus

Giantsfan1080
08-23-2011, 01:54 PM
This is also why I was against trading Ross while some people brought that up about a month ago.

Giantsfan1080
08-23-2011, 03:21 PM
Brian Witherspoon officially out for the year.

bigbluedefense
08-23-2011, 03:38 PM
With the Eagles adding 2 CBs to their roster, we probably should try to grab a guy they let go. They have to move one of their guys now that they added 2.

It wouldn't surprise me if we traded for a CB too, not a big name guy, just a guy who can fill the 4th/5th CB spot.

We just have to survive those first 7 games. Even if Prince is healthy by week 4, with no camp and practice, the guy needs at least 3 weeks before he can get his feet wet on defense.

Realistically, if Prince becomes a player for us this year, the light will turn on with 4 games left, or maybe at the start of the playoffs if we get in.

Giantsfan1080
08-23-2011, 03:40 PM
Sounds like we'll be working out Lito Sheppard and Kelvin Hayden.

Giantsfan1080
08-23-2011, 03:50 PM
Marvin Austin out for the year with a torn pec.

Rosebud
08-23-2011, 05:08 PM
One thing to consider is Rolle playing some CB in nickel but more so dime. Especially with Grant back in the picture. He provides some versatility.

I definitely think we'll be seeing a lot of 3 safety looks from us this year although it work differently than last year. This year Grant shouldn't be hugging the box quite as tightly, so instead of playing a S/LB hybrid he'll be more of a traditional in the box safety, with KP cleaning up deep and Rolle stepping up to cover guys. Hopefully Grant's agility and athleticism don't prevent him from making as big of an impact as he did last season when he had to cover more ground. I think that we'll definitely see 3 safeties out there most of the time were in the dime, but until Prince comes back and is up to speed, I think we'll see it a lot from our nickel defense. Especially if one of these young backers can take the second nickel 'backer spot.

And it goes without saying that losing Thomas is a HUGE blow. Huge. We have to hope we can survive for the first 7 weeks before Prince comes along. Even then, it's still a downgrade.

Huge loss.

Yeah, it's getting ridiculous how many of our guys are picking up injuries. Our secondary went from one of the best and deepest in the league to one that's an injury away from having a major weakness to exploit.

Also glad to read beatty's playing great in games to. I have really high hopes for the kid and it's nice to see him realizing that potential he has. If he can develop mental and keep solidifying his strength he's got all pro talent with his long arms, quick feet and ability to use his speed to get leverage in the running game.

Rosebud
08-23-2011, 05:11 PM
Marvin Austin out for the year with a torn pec.

This makes me so uneasy. I really hope this continues to add motivation and fire to him rather than causing him to get frustrated and lose that work ethic that he's done so much to change. I can only hope that we're just getting hit by our injuries early and that we'll have better luck once the hits start to count and matter.

Forenci
08-23-2011, 07:24 PM
Marvin Austin out for the year with a torn pec.

What the **** is this ****!

Is this another one of those injury riddled years for us?

LonghornsLegend
08-23-2011, 08:32 PM
Holy **** guys, the amount of injuries are staggering. At one point you were easily the deepest team at CB as well as the team with the best core top to bottom, now it's almost a weakness.


Good thing Prince isn't out that long, I thought he was gone until late in the season. Aaron Ross is injury prone though, gotta watch him.


That pissed me off about Austin. He was in a great situation to flourish too. Sad to hear.


On another note 2 things I'm intersted in:


Will Da'Rell Scot make the roster? You guys are really deep at RB(as always it seems) but dude is a play-maker and I'm not talking about his 97 yard run. He's an added dimension that IMO can develop into a Mike Goodson type player when Bradshaw leaves or gets hurt.


Also is Cruz the #3 WR? He's oozing with talent, has alot to learn still about running routes but he attacks the ball in the air beautifully and I think if given a chance to expand his role he'll do wonders with it.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-23-2011, 09:02 PM
Holy **** guys, the amount of injuries are staggering. At one point you were easily the deepest team at CB as well as the team with the best core top to bottom, now it's almost a weakness.


Good thing Prince isn't out that long, I thought he was gone until late in the season. Aaron Ross is injury prone though, gotta watch him.


That pissed me off about Austin. He was in a great situation to flourish too. Sad to hear.


On another note 2 things I'm intersted in:


Will Da'Rell Scot make the roster? You guys are really deep at RB(as always it seems) but dude is a play-maker and I'm not talking about his 97 yard run. He's an added dimension that IMO can develop into a Mike Goodson type player when Bradshaw leaves or gets hurt.


Also is Cruz the #3 WR? He's oozing with talent, has alot to learn still about running routes but he attacks the ball in the air beautifully and I think if given a chance to expand his role he'll do wonders with it.




We are in deep doo doo!

CB Prince out for a while

DT Austin- DONE

CB Bruce Johnson- DONE

CB Witherspoon - DONE

CB T. Thomas- DONE

Osi Knee out until he gets a no contract. err.. I mean until he "feels" better.

Can someone please stay healthy?

People say injuries are part of the game... I agree! However...... CAN WE NOT HAVE THEM ALL IN ONE POSITION?!?!??!!??!?!


Last year - WRs and OL

year before - OL and RB

Before I think it was LBs

But every time one position gets gutted!

BBD, no more defensive players! See what happens! They break like Tim Carter!

Giantsfan1080
08-23-2011, 09:46 PM
Osi is ahead of schedule as of today.

Scott will probably make the roster. Cruz is not our #3 WR.

billybeejr
08-24-2011, 06:58 AM
I was on wiki and saw that you guys signed Ryan Perrilloux. How has he looked in camp? Will he make the team?

Jughead10
08-24-2011, 07:53 AM
I was on wiki and saw that you guys signed Ryan Perrilloux. How has he looked in camp? Will he make the team?

I say he has pretty much no shot to make the team. We haven't carried 3 QBs in a while (smart move I think), but hopefully we can stash him on the practice squad.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 07:54 AM
Yeah I think they're hoping to get him on the Practice Squad. We've been looking for awhile to develop a QB behind Eli with the purpose of trading him for a pick ala Schaub or Kolb. We've done a bad job at it so far though with Woodson and Bomar.

Jughead10
08-24-2011, 08:05 AM
Yeah I think they're hoping to get him on the Practice Squad. We've been looking for awhile to develop a QB behind Eli with the purpose of trading him for a pick ala Schaub or Kolb. We've done a bad job at it so far though with Woodson and Bomar.

We need to start picking them earlier if that is what we are looking to do. And I'm not sure if Kolb or Schaub were picked for that reason. It's just the way it turned out. But when they were picked the team picking them didn't have as stable of a QB situation as we do.

bigbluedefense
08-24-2011, 08:08 AM
I wouldn't count out Cruz as our 3 just yet. So far Hixon started game 1 as our 3, and in game 2 Cruz started as our 3.

Maybe they're alternating? Maybe Jernigan gets a shot in game 3? I think whoever starts game 3 as our 3 will likely be the guy heading into the season.

We ran some very basic passing concepts in game 2. It's so difficult to get an accurate gauge on these guys when you're not really running a complex playbook in PS.

With so many injuries already, I can see some guys making this roster that wouldn't have made it otherwise. Right now our #3 CB is Coe. Yup...it's that bad.

I see us using a ton of 3 safety looks with Rolle as our nickel CB and we're probably gonna run a ton of zone.

So expect lots of Cover 2. Aren't you guys excited?!

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 09:01 AM
I really think Cruz is our 5th or 6th WR right now.

Jughead10
08-24-2011, 09:22 AM
I really think Cruz is our 5th or 6th WR right now.

At worst he's 4th. Judging by the when he currently comes into the games.

scottyboy
08-24-2011, 09:35 AM
Well look at the roster, Nicks and Mario are locked in at 1 and 2. Jernigan is making the team, but as a rookie, who seems to really be overthinking things too much, I dont see him being #3 or having a significant impact this season. But I LOVE him for the future. Hixon might be at #3 and a lock to make the roster. That's 4 WR's there. Cruz is 5. Thomas HAS to make this team, and that'd be 6. Clayton's looked good too, is he WR #7 on this team? Where's that leave Barden? I know he could be PUP'd...but still after that, then what?

I think in terms of starting, Hixon is going to be our 3, and I'm perfectly ok with that

Damix
08-24-2011, 09:43 AM
I'm guessing Barden begins the year on PUP at this point.

I'd say

Nicks - Manningham - Cruz - Hixon - Jernigan - Thomas.

Cruz or Jernigan will be inactive every week.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 09:53 AM
I actually think Hixon and Thomas are above Cruz right now. Jernigan and Cruz are on the same level to me.

Nicks
Manningham
Hixon
Thomas
Cruz/Jernigan
Clayton/Calhoun

Damix
08-24-2011, 09:56 AM
Minus the first two on my list I didn't really have an order to that.

I agree Hixon is probably your 3rd reciever right now, and Thomas is most definitely your KR.

Lets not forget that Thomas actually does have some potential left too, if he is actually dedicated he could much more then a STer.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 10:04 AM
I think he's turned the corner since leaving Washington. It seems like the cut made him turn the lights on upstairs. I've seen nothing but praise from the coaching staff.

I didn't include Barden on my list since he's not ready. I still realistically think he can be the 3rd best WR on the team this year if he ever gets on the field.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-24-2011, 10:30 AM
Formation Guide for Bears Game compared to Panthers
AnishPatel : 8/23/2011 10:20 am
Bears @ Giants 8-22-11 PS Game # 2



Here are the formations we used compared to the ones we used game 1 against the Panthers. I tried to do it without recording the game so I missed couple formations.

I am headed out for the day, so thought I'd do this quickly. But we saw the same formations with some added new ones. Again, we mixed up X, Z and Y among our WR depth.



1 Strong I Right (Run)
2 I Pro Right (Run)
3 SG - Trips Right (Pass)---PUNT
4 I Pro Right (Pass)
5 I Pro Slot Right (Pass)
6 I Pro Right ??? (Pass)----PUNT
7 Ace - Y Trips Right (Run) #27
8 I Pro Right (Run) #27
9 I Pro Left wing Left (Run)
10 Ace - Double Tight (Pass)
11 Ace - Y Trips Right (Pass)
12 SG - Quads Right (Pass)
13 SG - Trips Left (Pass) Z=MM Slot=Cruz
14 Twins Right (Pass)
15 Strong I Right (Run)
16 SG - Trips Left (Pass) z = #47
17 I Pro Double Tight Left (Run)
18 Twins Left (Run)
19 Ace - Y Trips Left (Run)
20 Ace - Y Trips Left (Run) TD
21 Ace - Double Tight (Pass)
22 Ace - Quads Left (Run)#44
23 SG - Trips Right (Pass) MM
24 I Pro Left (Pass) screen # 88
25 SGL - Quads Left (Run) #44
26 I Pro Left (Pass)
27 Ace - Double Tight (Run)#44
28 SG - Quads Left (Pass) Penalty
29 SGL - Trips Right (Pass) MM
30 I Pro Right (Run) Ware------ 2nd Unit
31 I Pro Right (Pass) #80 outside WR
32 SGL -Trips Right (Pass) Screen # 28-----PUNT
33 Fullhouse (Run) # 35 Brown
34 Ace - Y Trips Left-------Half time
35 missed it (Pass)
36 Strong I Right (Run) # 28
37 I Pro Left (Pass)
38 I Pro Left (Run) # 28
39 Ace - Y Trips Left
40 I Pro Left (Run)
41 I Pro Left wing Left (Run) TD # 28
42 Ace - Double Tight (Run) #35
43 Ace - Double Tight (Run) Penalty
44 SGR - Double Slot (Pass) ---- PUNT
45 I Pro Double Tight Left (Run)
46 I Pro Right (Pass)
47 I Pro Left (Pass)
48 SGR - Y Trips Left (Run)
49 SGL - Trips Right (Pass)
50 SG - Double Slot (Run)
51 missed it (Run)
52 Ace - Quads Right (Pass) TD
53 I Pro Left (Run)
54 I Pro Right (Run) TD Scott







Giants @ Panthers Game
1. Strong I Right
2. Weak I Left
3. Strong I Right
4 Weak I Left
5 Ace - Double Tight
6 Shotgun - Y Trips Right
7 Bad Camera Angle so I missed it
8 I Pro Left
9 Split Back Slot Left
10 I Pro Right Wing Right
11 Double Slot ???
12 Y Trips Right
13 ????
14 I Pro Right
15 Shotgun - Y Trips Right
16 I Pro Left, motion TE ---& gt; I Pro Right
17 I Pro Left
18 Shotgun - Quads Right (TE Right, Slot Left)
19 2nd UNIT I Pro Left Wing Left
20 Weak I Right
21 Single Back (Ace) - Strong Right, Slot Left
22 Shotgun Left - Y Trips Right
23 Strong I Right
24 I Pro Right
25 I Pro Right
26 Shotgun - Quads Right
27 Shotgun - Quads Right
28 Shotgun - Y Trips Left
29 Shotgun Left - Quads Right
30 Shotgun Left - Quads Right

HALFTIME


31 I Pro Right
32 Weak I Left
33 Weak I Left, Motion FB Left ----& gt; Strong I Left
34 Strong I Right, Motion FB Left -----& gt; Weak I Right
35 Shotgun - Trips Right Empty
36 Play in Action - Victor Cruz Highlight
37 Shotgun - Double Slot
38 Shotgun - Bunch Right
39 Ace - Double Tight
40 I Pro Left
41 I Pro Left
42 I Pro Right
43 Shotgun left - Double Slot
44 Ace - Double Tight
45 I Pro Right
46 Bad Angle
47 Shotgun Right - Double Slot
48 Missed the play. I was posting.. Inc. pass though
49 I Pro right
50 Shotgun Left - Trips Left
51 Perriloux comes in: Strong I Left
52 Strong I Left
53 Strong I Left
54 Shotgun Left - Trips Right
55 Weak I Right
56 Weak I Right
57 Shotgun Right - Trips Left
58 Shotgun Left - Double Slot
59 Shotgun Left - Quads Right
60 Shotgun Left - Double Slot
61 Shotgun Left - Double Slot
62 Shotgun Right - Y Trips Left
63 Shotgun Left - Quads Right
64 Shotgun Left - Trips Right



This is the Panthers game. Someone can use this to check it against this game yesterday if they are bored. I didn't record it so I can't go back and see.

Formation: Weak I Left

2 WR ; 1 FB ; 1 RB ; 1 TE

X - Nicks
Z - Manningham
Y - Ballard

# 2 Back - Bear P
# 3 Back - Bradshaw


Formation: Ace - Double Tight

2 WR ; 1 RB ; 2 TE ; 0 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Manningham
Y1 - BP
Y2 - Ballard


Formation: Shotgun Left - Trips Right

4 WR ; 0 TE ; 1 RB ; 0 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Hixon
F/H ( Inside WR Position) - Manningham
Y - Bear P


Formation: I Pro Left

2 WR ; 1 TE; 1 RB ; 1 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Manningham
Y - Bear P.

Formation: Shotgun - Splitback Slot Left

3 WR ; 2 RB ; 0 TE ; 0 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Hixon
Y - Manningham

# 2 - Ware
# 3 - Bradshaw

Formation: I Pro Right Wing Right

1 WR ; 2 TE ; 1 FB ; 1 RB

X - Nicks
Y1 - Ballard
Y2 - # 48

# 2 - Bear P
# 3 - Bradshaw


Formation: Shotgun Left - Trips Right

4 WR ; 0 TE ; 1 RB ; 0 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Hixon
F/H - Manningham
Y - Bear P



2nd UNIT



Formation: Strong I Left

2 WR ; 1 TE ; 1 FB ; 1 RB

X - Hixon
Z - Cruz
Y - Bear P

# 2 - # 41
# 3 - ??


Formation: Ace - Slot Left Strong Right

3 WR ; 1 Rb ; 1 TE ; 0 FB

X - Hixon
Z - Darius R.
F/H - Cruz
Y - Bear P


Formation: Shotgun Left - Trips Right

4 WR ; 0 TE ; 1 RB ; 0 FB

X - Hixon
Z - Darius R
F/H - Cruz
Y - Bear P


Formation: Weak I Left

2 WR ; 1 FB ; 1 RB ; 1 TE

X - Darius
Z - Hixon
Y - Bear P

# 2 Back - # 41
# 3 Back - ??

Darius starts out as X however this play has TE motion making the TE go from the left to the right the formation. This causes Darius to be Z and Hixon to be X, which would make sense because when Plax went down Hixon was the backup X. As you can see, he played X a lot this game.



Formation: Ace - Double Tight

2 WR ; 1 RB ; 2 TE ; 0 FB

X - Devin Thomas
Z - Cruz
Y1 - ?
Y2 - # 46

Forenci
08-24-2011, 10:57 AM
I was a huge Thomas fan when he was coming out. Still hoping he turns it around. He was fantastic at Michigan State. Probably should have went back for his final year though.

bigbluedefense
08-24-2011, 12:02 PM
It should have been Barden's job to lose. But he's basically done everything he can to lose it.

You can sense Coughlin's frustration in him when he speaks about him. They desperately want him on the field to see what he can do but he's just always hurt. Is he even playing this week? Is he even going to be ready by week 1?

I don't have faith in Thomas, Jernigan, or Cruz to hold down the slot right now. None of them have wowed me as receivers. Thomas did a great job on special teams though. He'll definitely make the team.

Cruz is too inconsistent. Especially inside. He hears footsteps too often.

bigbluedefense
08-24-2011, 12:05 PM
Truth be told, none of our WRs have wowed me. Mario is still inconsistent with just about everything, Nicks hasn't been consistent either and still makes mistakes himself, and nobody has established themselves as a 3.

Eli is in trouble this year guys. Our passing attack is going to suffer alot. We have nobody who can command the middle of the field.

At this point, I'm thinking we should move Nicks to the slot in 3 WR sets, and go speed outside with Mario and Hixon and if Barden can get healthy, play him outside instead of Hixon.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-24-2011, 12:12 PM
Booooooooooo!

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 12:22 PM
Barden is probably going to start the year on PUP but what is he supposed to do? It's not like he's not trying to get back but the doctors haven't cleared him yet.

I think Eli will be fine. The first half of the year we have such easy opponents we can get a good offensive mojo going until the second half. I'd have no problem if we go 55-45 run-pass this year.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-24-2011, 12:47 PM
What do you think our record will be for the season? Any predictions?

Mike and Mike said 8-8 and I think 7-9 I believe..

I think 8-8, 9-7 is around the target.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 12:50 PM
I'd say 9-7 or 10-6 at this point.

OSUGiants17
08-24-2011, 12:52 PM
I'm interested to see if we keep Ware or Scott and which rookie LBs make the team. Herzy and Jones are making good cases for themselves but Paysinger and Williams haven't shown that much.

Jughead10
08-24-2011, 12:59 PM
The schedule just isn't that hard. Too much is made of preseason.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 01:10 PM
The schedule just isn't that hard. Too much is made of preseason.

It is in the second half when we like to collapse.

Jughead10
08-24-2011, 01:13 PM
It is in the second half when we like to collapse.

Of course. But we could be 7-2 and still collapse our way to 10-6.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 01:21 PM
Of course. But we could be 7-2 and still collapse our way to 10-6.

That's what I'm hoping for worst case.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 01:28 PM
We worked out Lito Sheppard, Brian Williams, and 2 unidentified Cb's today.

Jughead10
08-24-2011, 01:31 PM
We worked out Lito Sheppard, Brian Williams, and 2 unidentified Cb's today.

Ralph Brown hopefully.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 01:41 PM
Frank Walker.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-24-2011, 01:45 PM
The schedule just isn't that hard. Too much is made of preseason.

Check it out after the BYE week.. These teams have good passing attacks, and we seem to be lacking Cbs. Do you think A. Ross can actually stay healthy? Factor in injuries and losing a game or two we are supposed to win, and 8-8 or 9-7 seems reasonable.

Jughead10
08-24-2011, 02:11 PM
Check it out after the BYE week.. These teams have good passing attacks, and we seem to be lacking Cbs. Do you think A. Ross can actually stay healthy? Factor in injuries and losing a game or two we are supposed to win, and 8-8 or 9-7 seems reasonable.

Can Mike Vick stay healthy? Who knows what those teams will look like weeks 11-17.

Overall the schedule is easier than last year. We play some teams that even when 100% healthy are going to be poor because of their QB play. We have to win as many games as possible early in the year. Just like every year.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-24-2011, 02:31 PM
Can Mike Vick stay healthy? Who knows what those teams will look like weeks 11-17.

Overall the schedule is easier than last year. We play some teams that even when 100% healthy are going to be poor because of their QB play. We have to win as many games as possible early in the year. Just like every year.

Nope, but they do have the great Vince Young! LOL.

Yeah, but I do know the trend of our team the last couple years or so. Usually the story goes like this:

We start out well, and then injuries maul a position. Then usually, teams get our number and what we are trying to do. So without tendency breakers, we usually have issues that we can't overcome. Factor in a game or two we are "supposed" to win but lose, and you get our record.

This seems to happen yearly. Except now it's early, the injury bug.

scottyboy
08-24-2011, 03:12 PM
I'm interested to see if we keep Ware or Scott and which rookie LBs make the team. Herzy and Jones are making good cases for themselves but Paysinger and Williams haven't shown that much.

? all i've read and seen Paysinger is lighting it up. I believe he was the first defensive sub for when we took Boley out (back). and I LOVEEEEE Jones. love love love him

bigbluedefense
08-24-2011, 03:15 PM
We're going to have to play smashmouth football this year. It's not going to be pretty. We're going to win ugly. It's just how it has to be this year. We need to be a strong running team and just hope we can muster enough in the passing game to get by.

Long drives to leave our defense off the field, and hopefully our pass rush stays healthy, which is the ultimate equalizer in the pass defense.

With Austin going down, we only have 2 DTs worth a damn now as well. So we really can't afford anymore injuries.

Luckily for us, I think our offensive line bounces back this year. I think we should be a strong running unit again. I want a 60/40 run pass ratio. I don't care if they know it, just come out heavy and run it down their throats.

I don't know what to make of this season yet, it's way too early. Right here right now, I'm hoping for 10-6 and a wildcard berth. And then, who knows, you take it from there.

I still think we can have a dominant defense, and if we commit to the run and pound it down their throats, and limit turnovers this year, I think we'll be ok.

We won't beat Philly (another year without beating Philly), but who knows, maybe we get some luck for a change and catch a nice break when it matters the most.

Let's see how this season shapes up.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 03:18 PM
Rocky has quietly been very good the last year and a half.

scottyboy
08-24-2011, 03:19 PM
we've got Linval and Canty to start, both of whom have looked good. I'm ok with Rocky as our 3rd. Kennedy and Gabe can duke it out for that 4th DT. this just means that DE A-Ok (not even going to try and spell his name) could make the squad.

Also, Dre' Bly is the 3rd identified CB. Lito, Brian Williams and Bly.

oy vey

bigbluedefense
08-24-2011, 03:25 PM
Hopefully we use a lot more 4 ace packages this year. I don't like that amoeba defense Fewell used last year. 4 aces is the way to go.

Even with our injuries in the secondary, I think we have a lot of manuverability with our safeties to put together some good coverages. We're just going to have to rely on our fronts more this year to get pressure.

I see Rolle playing nickel CB in our nickel strong packages. I don't think Coe or Bly or anybody sniffs the field unless they come out 4 WR.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 03:26 PM
It's only players that are willing to accept the veterans minimum salary so it's not like we were bringing any real talent in anyway.

bigbluedefense
08-24-2011, 03:32 PM
We can always trade a 5th rounder for a guy. But I don't see us making a move like that.

OSUGiants17
08-24-2011, 04:35 PM
? all i've read and seen Paysinger is lighting it up. I believe he was the first defensive sub for when we took Boley out (back). and I LOVEEEEE Jones. love love love him

Guess I haven't paid enough attention to Paysinger. Jones is a beast, wanted him in one of the top 2 rounds last preseason lol. Herzy has shown he is a smart football player, if he fully heals he could end up being a starter for us by the end of his career.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 05:09 PM
We signed Brian Williams. We're also in talks with Lito Sheppard.

scottyboy
08-24-2011, 05:55 PM
hooray old vet CB's!

Rosebud
08-24-2011, 06:31 PM
Hopefully we use a lot more 4 ace packages this year. I don't like that amoeba defense Fewell used last year. 4 aces is the way to go.

Even with our injuries in the secondary, I think we have a lot of manuverability with our safeties to put together some good coverages. We're just going to have to rely on our fronts more this year to get pressure.

I see Rolle playing nickel CB in our nickel strong packages. I don't think Coe or Bly or anybody sniffs the field unless they come out 4 WR.

I'm with this guy. Our secondary is still good to shut down 3 wide, as long as we don't get any further injuries to the secondary and Prince comes back and can adjust before we need to shut down teams that go 4 wide. Especially if Fewell gets more creative now that's he got a better grasp of the talent at his disposal and has had a whole summer to play with that knowledge and his playbook. I like him as a coach although I do share BBD's disdain for his cover-2 back ground, I also think it wouldn't be far fetch for him to have studied up on how spags used to use our players to try and incorporate my A-gap pressure, or at least I hope he did cause he's a smart guy and a passionate coach with a lot of talent to work with.

Giantsfan1080
08-24-2011, 06:57 PM
Let's not forget why they moved Rolle to S. It's because he sucked at CB.

Rosebud
08-24-2011, 07:32 PM
Let's not forget why they moved Rolle to S. It's because he sucked at CB.

He was alright, it was mostly because he could make a lot more plays if they gave him the freedom of playing safety.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-25-2011, 10:18 AM
He also played on a terrible team. Now he has a better team with a better pass rush so he won't have to cover as long.

Rosebud
08-25-2011, 12:03 PM
He also played on a terrible team. Now he has a better team with a better pass rush so he won't have to cover as long.

Or as often, or over as much room since he'll be covering the inside receivers and not the outside guys who could just burn past him.

Giantsfan1080
08-25-2011, 12:41 PM
Which makes my point that he wasn't that good of a CB to begin with. It's not a big deal as we won't ask him to play CB that often but it's not like he was a world beater there.

I'm really interested to see how the WR corps gets picked. Everyone has made a case for themself besides Calhoun. Barden was running at about 90-100% yesterday also so I'm hoping he gets back for that last preseason game against the Pats.

Forenci
08-25-2011, 01:40 PM
Fenikz tells me all the time that Rolle's best position is nickel CB, haha.

Rosebud
08-25-2011, 02:22 PM
Fenikz tells me all the time that Rolle's best position is nickel CB, haha.

It's cause that was the first position they stuck him at that he excelled at. Getting to play inside meant he didn't have as much ground to be responsible for. Sure he wasn't a great corner, that's why he's not going to be playing on the outside and once Prince is back and caught up will be replaced. But it's nice that's he's got that ability so that we can go into nickel formations.

OSUGiants17
08-25-2011, 02:57 PM
What do you guys think our 53 man roster will look like? My guess is this:

QB:
Eli Manning
David Carr

RB:
Ahmad Bradshaw
Brandon Jacobs
DJ Ware
Da'Rel Scott
Henry Hynoski (FB)

WR:
Hakeem Nicks
Mario Manningham
Domenik Hixon
Devin Thomas
Victor Cruz
Jerrel Jernigan

TE:
Travis Beckum
Bear Pascoe (FB/TE)
Daniel Coats or Jake Ballard

OL:
Will Beatty
Kareem McKenzie
David Diehl
Chris Snee
David Baas
James Brewer
Stacy Andrews
Mitch Petrus
Kevin Boothe

DE:
Justin Tuck
Osi Umenyiora
Jason Pierre-Paul
Dave Tollefson

DT:
Chris Canty
Linval Joseph
Gabe Watson
Jimmy Kennedy

LB:
Michael Boley
Jonathan Goff
Mathias Kiawanuka
Clint Sintim
Spencer Paysinger
Mark Herzlich
Greg Jones
Phillip Dillard

CB:
Corey Webster
Aaron Ross
Michael Coe
Prince Amukamara
Free Agent

S:
Antrel Rolle
Kenny Phillips
Deon Grant
Tyler Sash

STs:
K- Lawrence Tynes
P- Steve Weatherford
LS- Zak DeOssie

BaLLiN
08-25-2011, 06:35 PM
Which makes my point that he wasn't that good of a CB to begin with. It's not a big deal as we won't ask him to play CB that often but it's not like he was a world beater there.

I'm really interested to see how the WR corps gets picked. Everyone has made a case for themself besides Calhoun. Barden was running at about 90-100% yesterday also so I'm hoping he gets back for that last preseason game against the Pats.

Rolle was a world beater at NB/Joker..

Fenikz tells me all the time that Rolle's best position is nickel CB, haha.

I agree

It's cause that was the first position they stuck him at that he excelled at. Getting to play inside meant he didn't have as much ground to be responsible for. Sure he wasn't a great corner, that's why he's not going to be playing on the outside and once Prince is back and caught up will be replaced. But it's nice that's he's got that ability so that we can go into nickel formations.

giving rolle the nb position will create turnovers, we just need to hope that Grant/Sash can suffice opposite kenny

Rolle was deadly inside, this also gives us a legit blitzer out of the defensive backfield, and being able to screw around with things.

Rosebud
08-25-2011, 07:19 PM
I really hope Grant can reproduce his season having to cover more ground as a more traditional safety.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2011, 11:59 AM
For what it's worth, I felt that playing nickel CB was more difficult than the sidelines, all things equal.

When you play the sidelines you can use the border as an extra defender, but in nickel, you have another cut you have to defend. It's harder.

Especially if the WR starts drifting to the sideline, just nudge him with your hips and try to get him out of bounds, if he does, you don't even have to play him anymore bc he can't be the next player to touch the ball.

I only played high school ball though, and they let us rough up WRs. Not sure if they still do, I haven't followed high school ball in a long while, but we got away with murder.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2011, 12:03 PM
It sounds like Cruz is going to be our slot btw.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-26-2011, 01:02 PM
It sounds like Cruz is going to be our slot btw.

If he can handle it then so be it. Let him be Y for 1 personnel package, Hixon in another, and MM in another.

Giantsfan1080
08-26-2011, 06:56 PM
Umm WTF are the NFL, Giants, and Jets doing. They won't cancel this game because they're so greedy for the almighty dollar. We now have to play 2 preseason games in 3 days. Are they kidding me?

Giantsfan1080
08-27-2011, 12:31 PM
Steve Smith returned to practice for the Eagles already. I can't believe how bad we screwed this one up.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-27-2011, 12:33 PM
Steve Smith returned to practice for the Eagles already. I can't believe how bad we screwed this one up.

It's a glorified walk through. Let's not go crazy about it. And we didn't screw it up. Do you think it's coincidence that all of Ben D's clients ALL ended up on the Eagles this FA?

Giantsfan1080
08-27-2011, 12:38 PM
You're right that's not a coincidence but our medical staff or Reese flubbed this one. It's a walk through but once he practices he can't be placed on PUP as you know. This one will sting me all year so I'll try not to bring it up often.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-27-2011, 12:42 PM
You're right that's not a coincidence but our medical staff or Reese flubbed this one. It's a walk through but once he practices he can't be placed on PUP as you know. This one will sting me all year so I'll try not to bring it up often.

Again, it's science not a subjective thing like he made the right decision or wrong one.. One veteran doctor who did the surgery gave our guys advice. Smith turned down the big offer prior to the injury, and according to the reports, didn't give us a chance to match.

I don't blame Reese or the doctors. They haven't made me think otherwise. Like I said on BBI, it's not like we are the Cards, Lions, or Browns were mismanagement occurred too often where we should be very skeptical.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-27-2011, 12:52 PM
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=412791&posted=1#end

here is the big discussion going on where I am in.

Giantsfan1080
08-27-2011, 02:20 PM
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=412791&posted=1#end

here is the big discussion going on where I am in.

Yeah I saw you post on there. I try to stay away from posting on BBI even though I read everything.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-27-2011, 02:52 PM
Yeah I saw you post on there. I try to stay away from posting on BBI even though I read everything.

Hehe why? It's the big leagues there. If you get respect there, it says a lot, at least to me. So it's fun site, and they are quick to call ********. It's an interesting dynamic there. You have to be a good poster there or else one doesn't get respect.

You should go. You are a good poster, now carry it on there.

Jughead10
08-27-2011, 03:35 PM
Hehe why? It's the big leagues there. If you get respect there, it says a lot, at least to me. So it's fun site, and they are quick to call ********. It's an interesting dynamic there. You have to be a good poster there or else one doesn't get respect.

You should go. You are a good poster, now carry it on there.

I just go there to get up to the second news. But reading that forum can make your head hurt.

Giantsfan1080
08-27-2011, 04:59 PM
There are a ton of great posters over there but I like our community here. All the G-Men fans here are pretty knowledgeable and we don't have to deal with the idiots as much.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-27-2011, 05:04 PM
I just go there to get up to the second news. But reading that forum can make your head hurt.

Yeah there are some ignorant posters there but go to giants.com or other NYG forums. It's worse there. I think all in all the good outweights the bad on BBI by a lot.

bigbluedefense
08-29-2011, 10:21 AM
I'm sorry, but there's no excuse to lose Smith. That was inexcusable. I'm still extremely upset by that.

All I can hope for is he comes back next year. I miss you Steve :(

And let's all pray for no injuries tonight.

bigbluedefense
08-29-2011, 10:22 AM
Btw, is everyone ok with the hurricane situation? Hope all is well with you guys.

Giantsfan1080
08-29-2011, 11:10 AM
I'm sorry, but there's no excuse to lose Smith. That was inexcusable. I'm still extremely upset by that.

All I can hope for is he comes back next year. I miss you Steve :(

And let's all pray for no injuries tonight.

Yeah I really won't get over the Smith thing all year probably.

bigbluedefense
08-29-2011, 11:13 AM
If he doesn't sign back next year, I probably will never get over it.

Steve is a Giant. I don't care what anyone says. He had no business wearing any other color on his body. Should have been a lifer.

Damix
08-29-2011, 11:31 AM
Barely got anything down here BBD (DC), just some extra rain.

Pretty much all I'm looking for tonight is no injuries, don't care about anything else.

Jughead10
08-29-2011, 11:32 AM
Barely got anything down here BBD (DC), just some extra rain.

Pretty much all I'm looking for tonight is no injuries, don't care about anything else.

I kind of hope we win. I'd really hate to listen to fatass gloat about a preseason victory.

Giantsfan1080
08-29-2011, 11:33 AM
I kind of hope we win. I'd really hate to listen to fatass gloat about a preseason victory.

As long as get them in December all will be well.

Jughead10
08-29-2011, 11:37 AM
As long as get them in December all will be well.

Of course. But August until December is a long time. I just hate that guy so much. He's such a clown. Cool tattoo douche.

bigbluedefense
08-29-2011, 11:39 AM
Yeah I just don't want any injuries. Let's save our stuff for the game that matters. Let fat ass have his metlife trophy.

You know Rex is going to be a classless jerk too, like last year, and play his starters longer than we will, blitz like hell, then talk about how his starting unit was dominant.

That was hilarious to me, our starting unit last year beat their unit, then we took out our starters in the 1st quarter, his starting unit plays the entire 2nd quarter vs our backups and they stage a comeback, then he's on hardknocks talking about how his starters whooped our butt.

I love him as a coach though, not going to lie. He just tries too hard to get over the little brother complex the Jets have with the Giants.

Me personally, I have nothing against the Jets. I don't care. They're not a rival to me. A rival is our division rivals. Not a team in the AFC that we play 1 relevant game against every 4 years.

Giantsfan1080
08-29-2011, 11:45 AM
I never hated them until fat ass showed up.

bigbluedefense
08-29-2011, 11:49 AM
Eh, Rex can talk all he wants. Until he actually wins something, he's making himself look like an idiot.

I personally don't have a problem with him, nothing for nothing, he's one hell of a coach. I'd love to have him coordinate our defense. Can you imagine what he'd do with the talent on our defense? Forget it.

bigbluedefense
08-29-2011, 11:50 AM
You know who I hate? The dumb wannabe tough guy staten island jets fan who suffers from little brother syndrome acting like the jets are takingzz overzzz and now that Rex has all this bravado they seem to think they have it too douchebag.

Basically, guido jet fans. THAT'S who I hate.

Giantsfan1080
08-29-2011, 12:40 PM
Eh, Rex can talk all he wants. Until he actually wins something, he's making himself look like an idiot.

I personally don't have a problem with him, nothing for nothing, he's one hell of a coach. I'd love to have him coordinate our defense. Can you imagine what he'd do with the talent on our defense? Forget it.

He's great with the defense absolutely but just shut up already.

Hurricanes25
08-29-2011, 01:09 PM
You know who I hate? The dumb wannabe tough guy staten island jets fan who suffers from little brother syndrome acting like the jets are takingzz overzzz and now that Rex has all this bravado they seem to think they have it too douchebag.

Basically, guido jet fans. THAT'S who I hate.

Living in Staten Island, I know exactly what you mean. It's terrible.

Just hopefully nobody gets injured tonight on either team.

Todd Bertuzzi
08-29-2011, 01:47 PM
Eagles RT Ryan Harris will have to undergo surgery on his back and is likely out for the season. With Winston Justice still sidelined while rehabbing his knee the Eagles have moved Herremans to RT. Evan Mathis will fill in at LG in the meantime. That means our interior o-line currently looks like Mathis-Kelce-Watkins :/ I really didn't like the idea of starting two rookies and now with Harris going down the situation has gotten even worse. Vick got hit nearly ten times in the first half of last weeks preseason game against the Browns...this could get ugly.

Ps I hope you don't mind me posting here from time to time but in case you haven't noticed the Eagles board is pretty much dead.

Giantsfan1080
08-29-2011, 01:51 PM
The Cowboys and your line are weaknesses right now for sure. The Giants will have to take advantage of that.

bigbluedefense
08-29-2011, 02:26 PM
Eagles RT Ryan Harris will have to undergo surgery on his back and is likely out for the season. With Winston Justice still sidelined while rehabbing his knee the Eagles have moved Herremans to RT. Evan Mathis will fill in at LG in the meantime. That means our interior o-line currently looks like Mathis-Kelce-Watkins :/ I really didn't like the idea of starting two rookies and now with Harris going down the situation has gotten even worse. Vick got hit nearly ten times in the first half of last weeks preseason game against the Browns...this could get ugly.

Ps I hope you don't mind me posting here from time to time but in case you haven't noticed the Eagles board is pretty much dead.

You never have to ask permission to post here. We enjoy good divisional discussion as long as it's not trolling. Glad to have ya.

As GF said, I think 1 overlooked aspect of both the Cowboys and Eagles are their line play. I think the Giants are clearly the best in division in the trenches. We probably have both the best oline and dline in the division.

The Eagles can give us a run for our money on the dline, but your oline is very mediocre. And Dallas is awful on both lines. Scary thought, but Washington might have a better front 7 than Dallas. I'm not scared of Dallas this year.

Washington is actually a good wr, cb and qb away from being a good team. They're going to surprise people this year. They won't be good, but they won't be horrid either.

Philly has 2 issues:

1. Oline is poor. Vick obviously makes up for this, but the way he gets hit and how he can't stay healthy, this is a big risk. Still, with the speed on offense and Vick buying time, you should be ok. But it's still a weakness that could be exploited.

2. Your defense can be had in the run game. Your front 7 is way too light. And that system up front by Washburn doesn't help in run support. Your pass defense is going to be incredible, but you can get run on. That's my hope as a Giants fan, that we can come out and run it on you guys and try to beat you on the ground.

bigbluedefense
08-29-2011, 02:27 PM
Living in Staten Island, I know exactly what you mean. It's terrible.

Just hopefully nobody gets injured tonight on either team.

Yeah. It's always the minority that give the majority a bad name. I have no problem with Jet fans, as long as they're not the aforementioned type.

I honestly don't see this as a rivalry. I know some do, but I don't.

Todd Bertuzzi
08-29-2011, 03:24 PM
You never have to ask permission to post here. We enjoy good divisional discussion as long as it's not trolling. Glad to have ya.

As GF said, I think 1 overlooked aspect of both the Cowboys and Eagles are their line play. I think the Giants are clearly the best in division in the trenches. We probably have both the best oline and dline in the division.

The Eagles can give us a run for our money on the dline, but your oline is very mediocre. And Dallas is awful on both lines. Scary thought, but Washington might have a better front 7 than Dallas. I'm not scared of Dallas this year.

With Kerrigan lining up opposite Orakpo this year the Skins rush definitely scares me. Just watching them in preseason I had visions of Vick getting lit up.

Philly has 2 issues:

1. Oline is poor. Vick obviously makes up for this, but the way he gets hit and how he can't stay healthy, this is a big risk. Still, with the speed on offense and Vick buying time, you should be ok. But it's still a weakness that could be exploited.

We'll see. Vick's speed doesn't always make up for a poor o-line because he also tends to hold onto the ball for longer trying to drag a play out. What scares me is the uncertainty we have at RT which coincidentally is Vick's blind side. I'm confident Herremans can hold things down till Justice gets healthy but it's still a big question mark. The one sure way to shut down Vick, which we saw a lot towards the end of last year, is just to blitz him constantly. If you give him time he'll find a way to make something happen.
Running a blitz heavy defense also takes away our ability to stretch the field with our speed by not allowing time for those deep plays to develop. It really is like kryptonite to this offense.

2. Your defense can be had in the run game. Your front 7 is way too light. And that system up front by Washburn doesn't help in run support. Your pass defense is going to be incredible, but you can get run on. That's my hope as a Giants fan, that we can come out and run it on you guys and try to beat you on the ground.

Pretty much...honestly it looks like it will be almost impossible to pass on this secondary judging by this preseason's first team snaps. Our run defense is our biggest weakness and has been for a few seasons now so it's nothing really new. A big back like Jacobs could have a field day against us though.

JBCX
08-29-2011, 03:26 PM
2. Your defense can be had in the run game. Your front 7 is way too light. And that system up front by Washburn doesn't help in run support. Your pass defense is going to be incredible, but you can get run on. That's my hope as a Giants fan, that we can come out and run it on you guys and try to beat you on the ground.

Just FYI, in last year's two Giants-Eagles games:

On 11/21 the Eagles defense held Brandon Jacobs to 2.00 ypa on 5 carries and Ahmad Bradshaw to 2.42 ypa on 12 carries.

On 12/19 (Miracle in the Meadowlands) the Eagles defense held Brandon Jacobs to 2.83 ypa on 12 carries and Ahmad Bradshaw to 3.47 ypa on 19 carries.

Considering that the Eagles defense only improved in the offseason, this doesn't bode well for the Giants running game, imho.

Yes, Stewart Bradley was the MLB last year, but only for the first game. Jamar Chaney started @ MLB on 12/19 alongside Moise Fokou and Ernie Sims. So if Bradley was the difference, it wasn't apparent. Moise Fokou is starting at the WLB position this year and Ernie Sims was easily the worst LB on the team last year, and his absence will only improve the unit.

The defensive line is unchanged (Antonio Dixon and Mike Patterson started both games and figure to be prominent players in the DT rotation this year) except for the addition of Cullen Jenkins, who is obviously an upgrade.

The point is that the Eagles have the talent on defense, in the front 7 to be exact, to completely stifle the Giant's running game. They did it twice last year. Whether the new "wide 9" configuration hinders their ability to repeat that performance remains to be seen, but the front 7 is obviously not too light to stop Jacobs and Bradshaw because they did it admirably as recently as last season.

Rosebud
08-29-2011, 03:47 PM
Just FYI, in last year's two Giants-Eagles games:

On 11/21 the Eagles defense held Brandon Jacobs to 2.00 ypa on 5 carries and Ahmad Bradshaw to 2.42 ypa on 12 carries.

On 12/19 (Miracle in the Meadowlands) the Eagles defense held Brandon Jacobs to 2.83 ypa on 12 carries and Ahmad Bradshaw to 3.47 ypa on 19 carries.

Considering that the Eagles defense only improved in the offseason, this doesn't bode well for the Giants running game, imho.

Yes, Stewart Bradley was the MLB last year, but only for the first game. Jamar Chaney started @ MLB on 12/19 alongside Moise Fokou and Ernie Sims. So if Bradley was the difference, it wasn't apparent. Moise Fokou is starting at the WLB position this year and Ernie Sims was easily the worst LB on the team last year, and his absence will only improve the unit.

The defensive line is unchanged (Antonio Dixon and Mike Patterson started both games and figure to be prominent players in the DT rotation this year) except for the addition of Cullen Jenkins, who is obviously an upgrade.

The point is that the Eagles have the talent on defense, in the front 7 to be exact, to completely stifle the Giant's running game. They did it twice last year. Whether the new "wide 9" configuration hinders their ability to repeat that performance remains to be seen, but the front 7 is obviously not too light to stop Jacobs and Bradshaw because they did it admirably as recently as last season.

Well the OL is a lot less ****** for us this year.

scottyboy
08-29-2011, 06:44 PM
Well the OL is a lot less ****** for us this year.

This this and more this. Plus, bradshaw was hurt in the 2nd game

Forenci
08-29-2011, 07:14 PM
Eagles RT Ryan Harris will have to undergo surgery on his back and is likely out for the season. With Winston Justice still sidelined while rehabbing his knee the Eagles have moved Herremans to RT. Evan Mathis will fill in at LG in the meantime. That means our interior o-line currently looks like Mathis-Kelce-Watkins :/ I really didn't like the idea of starting two rookies and now with Harris going down the situation has gotten even worse. Vick got hit nearly ten times in the first half of last weeks preseason game against the Browns...this could get ugly.

Ps I hope you don't mind me posting here from time to time but in case you haven't noticed the Eagles board is pretty much dead.

You're always allowed Todd! We love you! Or at least I do.

Rosebud
08-29-2011, 08:08 PM
This this and more this. Plus, bradshaw was hurt in the 2nd game

We're better at LT and C, Diehl will move to a position he's better at and am I making this up or was Snee banged up last year? I'm excited to see our OL for the first time in a couple seasons and I think they're just going to get better and better. Beatty-Petrus-Baas-Snee-Brewer moving forward is a talented crew and we've still got Koets, Diehl, McKenzie and the guy who I'm forgetting, for the meanwhile...Boothe, was who I was forgetting...The OL should be one of our strengths this season and should only get better moving forward.

Forenci
08-29-2011, 08:46 PM
I really like our O-Line depth too. Boothe, Petrus, Koets in the future, and potentially Brewer developing down the line.

Giantsfan1080
08-30-2011, 07:30 AM
I was at the game last night and Manningham ran the wrong choice route about 4 or 5 times last night. He's a good explosive player but he will never take the next step in our offense.

Linval is going to beast this year. He's great at the point of attack and holds his ground very well.

Webster didn't play very good yesterday in a few man situations. I'm not concerned about him but just something I wanted to note.

BigBlueNorwegian
08-30-2011, 08:02 AM
Well, at least we didn't win that horrible snoopy trophy.

Couple of things i noticed yesterday that scares me before the regular season:

-Eli really misses Boss and Smith. Theres no way to get around it now. I think this is going to be a big problem, at least early on in the season, before someone steps up in the slot and/or at TE. He has no security blanket recievers he trusts against blitzing defenses anymore. Smith and Boss would be 1 and 2 options when the ball had to come out quickly. Now it seems like he doesn't want to throw to Beckum unless he absolutely has to, and Cruz seems like a non-factor in the slot.

-Our running game looks very good. On the bright side, both Jacobs and Bradshaw has looked very good this preseason. Even DJ Ware looked good in spurts yesterday IMO. I'm not familiar enough with the complexities of O-line blocking to be certain that they should be credited with all of this, but to my untrained eyes they sure look better both in run and pass blocking this year.

-Jerrel Jernigan is not ready for NFL duty. not even as a punt returner. three(!) muffed punts and a fumble!? Really? this is the guy we drafted to fix our return woes? He better step up his game quickly. I mean, I know he is a rookie and all that, and of course we are going to give him time to acclimate to the NFL, but the early returns(no pun intended) does not look good.

-Our defense still looks good/great. apart from the touchdown drive(thanks in large part to horrible ST, more on that later), the defense was very stout in my estimation. the coverage seemed good, and forced Sanchez to hold on to the ball longer than he wanted on multiple pass attempts. It also looked like we did a good job against the run for the most part. I'm encouraged by what i saw from our D last night. Oh, and Justin Tuck is playing like a posessed man this preseason. He looks like he's in for a beastly season!

-Special teams sucked worse than ever. I've already mentioned Jernigan. Devin Thomas also muffed a kick return and it bounced out at the 4-yd line, completely destroying our chances in the two-minute drill before halftime. The Jets' starters only TD came from a 70 yd kick return where Cromartie wasn't even touched after initially muffing the kick. Everybody was just blocked out of the play, it's not like there was tons of missed tackling or anything. That's inexcusable. The punting was good from both Dodge and Weatherford though(Dodge had a somewhat poor punt for a touchback, but the snap on that one was horrible, so he did a decent job just to get it off IMO).

One thing I want to ask you guys about is what you think is the reason for those horrible delay of game penalties. we seem to get them against us a couple of times every season when Eli tries to audible at the line. We got one last night and it pisses me off when this happens. Is it on Eli? Does he try to do too much before the snap/forget to check the play clock. Is it on Gilbride? i know he has a tendency to get in plays late to Eli? or is it that the audibles are too long to reiterate in a short amount of time, because of the complexities of our offense?

It seems like something that should be easily correctable, yet it happens season after season. I'm getting more and more frustrated by it.

Jughead10
08-30-2011, 08:07 AM
I think Hixon will be doing all return duties in the regular season. No reason to get him hurt out there doing it now.

BigBlueNorwegian
08-30-2011, 08:12 AM
I think Hixon will be doing all return duties in the regular season. No reason to get him hurt out there doing it now.

Let's hope so. Jernigan is not ready. BTW, it didn't look like Hixon got one snap with the starters yesterday. I guess that means we are going to roll with Nicks,Mario and Cruz as our 1,2 and 3 recievers this year. Not sure about that, I would have liked to see Hixon instead of Cruz.

Giantsfan1080
08-30-2011, 08:12 AM
I don't think we have that many delay of game calls throughout the season. Eli does do a lot at the line but I never looked at it as a problem.

BigBlueNorwegian
08-30-2011, 08:22 AM
I don't think we have that many delay of game calls throughout the season. Eli does do a lot at the line but I never looked at it as a problem.

Yeah, maybe i'm just too caught up in this, but it seems like an easily correctable thing. And to have it happen on fourth down, like it did yesterday, it just spells out SLOPPY. but I agree, it doesn't happen that often. It just pisses me off when it does happen.

Jughead10
08-30-2011, 08:38 AM
If anything it allows teams to time their blitzes perfectly. We don't get a ton of delay of games, but we do snap the ball and awful lot with 1 on the play clock.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-30-2011, 09:28 AM
If anything it allows teams to time their blitzes perfectly. We don't get a ton of delay of games, but we do snap the ball and awful lot with 1 on the play clock.

I like that. In this system, you need the pre snap read and post snap read to be perfect or else. However, the downside is the delay of games. But that's part of the whole package with TC/Gilbride in this system.

BigBlueNorwegian
08-30-2011, 09:59 AM
I like that. In this system, you need the pre snap read and post snap read to be perfect or else. However, the downside is the delay of games. But that's part of the whole package with TC/Gilbride in this system.

Ah, okay. So it is a somewhat conscious part of the offense then. Thanks for clearing it up for me guys. Always appreciate you giving a poor European soul who grew up with soccer some real good Giants insight.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-30-2011, 10:04 AM
Ah, okay. So it is a somewhat conscious part of the offense then. Thanks for clearing it up for me guys. Always appreciate you giving a poor European soul who grew up with soccer some real good Giants insight.

Hehe no worries. Our system is based on a pre snap read and post snap read. So we take all the time needed to get a good read on what the defense is trying to do. That allows Eli to get the information and change plays and orchestrate the offense. I don't mind the false starts like some other fans do because you got to look at the big picture and how Eli can do things by waiting until the last possible seconds.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-30-2011, 10:40 AM
Can we get Jacobs to stop thinking he is a boxer? I mean, come on! The guy is a whack job. I wish TC would suspend him for a game or two, but I'd be afraid he might punch TC, Mara or Reese for attempting to try to bench him.

Giantsfan1080
08-30-2011, 10:46 AM
Can we get Jacobs to stop thinking he is a boxer? I mean, come on! The guy is a whack job. I wish TC would suspend him for a game or two, but I'd be afraid he might punch TC, Mara or Reese for attempting to try to bench him.

Huh? He was sticking up for a teammate. I don't know why you hate him so much but he's been a great Giant as far as I'm concerned. He has looked great on the field this preseason coupled with his great YPC last year. We have a great tandem , enjoy it.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-30-2011, 11:01 AM
Huh? He was sticking up for a teammate. I don't know why you hate him so much but he's been a great Giant as far as I'm concerned. He has looked great on the field this preseason coupled with his great YPC last year. We have a great tandem , enjoy it.

I dont care what he was doing. You don't punch anyone on the field! That's the first time he has do it either! Also, at the end of last season he went off on the media too! He needs to watch his mouth and actions. You can't punch whoever you want. If you want to box, then be a boxer.


Not the first time it happened, as I mentioned. He is Jacobs punching Washington. Last season he got in his boxer stance to fight Fat Albert.


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/530/penalty.gif/

Giantsfan1080
08-30-2011, 11:05 AM
I dont care what he was doing. You don't punch anyone on the field! That's the first time he has do it either! Also, at the end of last season he went off on the media too! He needs to watch his mouth and actions. You can't punch whoever you want. If you want to box, then be a boxer.


Not the first time it happened, as I mentioned. He is Jacobs punching Washington. Last season he got in his boxer stance to fight Fat Albert.


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/530/penalty.gif/

It's not a big deal at all as far as I'm concerned. If you didn't dislike him so much you wouldn't have brought matter up.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-30-2011, 11:08 AM
I can't stand him, but stuff like that is a reason. Who does that? Seriously? You are not a boxer when you step on the field. Let it go.. it's ok. He got thrown out of a game where he could be used on the goal line. He just does stuff that makes you wonder if he is couple fries short of a happy meal.

Giantsfan1080
08-30-2011, 11:10 AM
I can't stand him, but stuff like that is a reason. Who does that? Seriously? You are not a boxer when you step on the field. Let it go.. it's ok. He got thrown out of a game where he could be used on the goal line. He just does stuff that makes you wonder if he is couple fries short of a happy meal.

He's a football player. 95% of them are more than a couple of fries short.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-30-2011, 11:14 AM
He's a football player. 95% of them are more than a couple of fries short.

Haha true, but that's roid rage stupid. Not to say he is on it, but someone has to say something to him. If I am a DC, I am telling my 3rd string to start a fight with him, because he will hit you, and try to get him thrown out. That's what I'd do.

bigbluedefense
08-30-2011, 11:41 AM
I love Jacobs. And truth be told, he's been our best running back for the 2nd half of last season, and all of this preseason.

It's time to rip on Eli guys. I don't have much time today so my review of the game will be delayed, but I'm calling out Eli as well as some serious concerns I have for this season.

I was also at the game, and I had a mezzanine endzone view, I was able to see everything Eli did right and wrong, as well as others. And long story short, Eli needs to get called out.

Will write the review later.

Giantsfan1080
08-30-2011, 11:47 AM
I love Jacobs. And truth be told, he's been our best running back for the 2nd half of last season, and all of this preseason.

It's time to rip on Eli guys. I don't have much time today so my review of the game will be delayed, but I'm calling out Eli as well as some serious concerns I have for this season.

I was also at the game, and I had a mezzanine endzone view, I was able to see everything Eli did right and wrong, as well as others. And long story short, Eli needs to get called out.

Will write the review later.

He wasn't good but I'm going to get on him until he does this in the regular season. You also notice the 4 or 5 times Mario ran the wrong route? Of course though when Mario was wide open Eli overthrew him.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-30-2011, 12:07 PM
I love Jacobs. And truth be told, he's been our best running back for the 2nd half of last season, and all of this preseason.

It's time to rip on Eli guys. I don't have much time today so my review of the game will be delayed, but I'm calling out Eli as well as some serious concerns I have for this season.

I was also at the game, and I had a mezzanine endzone view, I was able to see everything Eli did right and wrong, as well as others. And long story short, Eli needs to get called out.

Will write the review later.

That's fair, but Jacobs cant keep doing what he is doing in terms of trying to punch people.

bigbluedefense
08-31-2011, 09:12 AM
It's time to call Eli out.

First and foremost, I'm not worried about our defense. We're still going to have a dominant top 5 defense in the league if we can stay healthy and if Fewell isn't a dumbass.

So don't worry about the defense.

The oline is fine, it's going to be a very good oline. Run game will be dominant again. Run game will be fine.

But our passing attack is a D right now. And that's being generous. And it's time to call Eli out. He's had a poor training camp, and he's had a poor preseason. And his offseason program was a joke.

Let's be real, let's call it like we see it. Eli hasn't been good. He's made bad decisions, he's been inaccurate, and he's not hitting his hot reads.

I studied Eli the entire game. He stared down Nicks and Mario way too much. He had Cruz open on several occasions and didn't even look his way. In fact, the only time he even tried looking in the middle of the field was when Nicks ran slants or square ins. That's it. He's completely locked onto Nicks and Mario.

He doesn't trust our anyone else at all. And he doesn't even give them a chance, even when they're open. And he made the wrong read on several plays. He missed his hot twice on a blitz.

On the Mario bomb pass he missed, he actually missed it twice. The play before that Mario beat Cro bad and was wide open for a TD, I saw it. I then paid attention to Mario in the huddle. It seemed like he was trying to tell Eli something, pretty sure he was telling him he can beat Cro deep.

So the next play, he beats him again and once again, wide open for a TD. And Eli just plain misses him.

It's one thing if Eli didn't expect, got a little excited and just overthrew him. It's one thing if he had pressure. But neither were the case. He knew before the play that Mario could get open deep for a TD, he had great protection, and he just plain missed him. Inexcusable, I don't want to hear it, that's just inexcusable.

He was staring down Nicks and Mario all night. I saw several times the safeties gravitated towards both those guys bc Eli stared them down, and he left them out to dry as a result.

The Bradshaw INT was all him. The first INT was a sight adjustment error by the WR, but the 2nd INT was all him. Plus the Jets missed another 2 INTs that would have been on Manning.

Let's face it guys. He's been bad. He didn't throw a single TD pass all preseason, is completing only 50% of his throws, and has thrown INTs. Sugarcoat it all you want, but Eli has been bad.

Some of that is a lack of trust of the new guys, some of it is the fact that the new guys aren't getting open, but some of it is also on Eli. He's not inexcusable in all of this, he is largely to blame as well.

If we're going to win this year, it's on the defense and the running game. The way Eli is playing, he's going to have a bad statistical year. And hopefully one of these young guys step up during the season.

But right now, the way things look, we will have a very mediocre passing attack. Don't even waste your time wondering if we can throw on the Eagles. We can't. Get that one out of your head, it's not happening.

And Beckum sucks. He's listed at 250lbs. 250 my ass. He's 220 soaking wet.

scottyboy
08-31-2011, 09:25 AM
you know what though BBD? it IS still preseason. And while Eli losing some of his security blankets ala Smith and Boss are going to take it's toll, if our biggest concern heading into the season is Eli...well I'm ok with that because it's not like he's some unproven guy. It's weird to say, but I'm actually fairly confident Eli will turn it around. Here's to hoping he builds up a rapport with guys like Hixon, Cruz, Beckum etc early in the season while our D and running game carry us against mediocre teams

bigbluedefense
08-31-2011, 09:29 AM
you know what though BBD? it IS still preseason. And while Eli losing some of his security blankets ala Smith and Boss are going to take it's toll, if our biggest concern heading into the season is Eli...well I'm ok with that because it's not like he's some unproven guy. It's weird to say, but I'm actually fairly confident Eli will turn it around. Here's to hoping he builds up a rapport with guys like Hixon, Cruz, Beckum etc early in the season while our D and running game carry us against mediocre teams

That's what I'm hoping for. I think right now, it's a lack of trust btw Eli and the new guys. It's going to take time to build that chemistry. So hopefully the easy schedule will allow us to get through those growing pains and hopefully he'll put it together in the 2nd half of the season.

Contrarily though, Eli always sees a dip in his numbers in the 2nd half of the season. He usually starts out guns blazing then dips, so if he starts out with a dip...who knows.

You know what I think should happen? Bring Hagan back. I know Hagan is strictly a possession WR but you know what? We need that right now. We need it bad. Plus Eli trusts him and had great chemistry with him. I always liked Hagan, I think we should bring him back.

Hagan can be that poor man's possession WR/checkdown option Eli desperately needs.

Rosebud
08-31-2011, 09:37 AM
I'd much rather see what happens in the regular season with one of the kids than bring in Hagan, hell I'd rather see us utilize Hixon as the third receiver over Hagan.

bigbluedefense
08-31-2011, 09:39 AM
Hixon can't beat the press, and doesn't give us what our team desperately needs: a checkdown.

That's why Eli misses Boss and Smith so much. They were his checkdowns. He needs a checkdown WR. A guy who can get open in space underneath he could check down to, can get tough yards in the middle of the field. Hixon isn't that guy.

The only guys on the roster who have a shot of filling that void are Cruz and Barden. Jernigan looks like Sinorice Moss pt 2 to me, I'm already having my doubts on him.

Giantsfan1080
08-31-2011, 09:42 AM
Honestly I don't think Barden and Cruz are really much of a check down WR either. It seems like all the guys we have right now are more of the explosive down field type. I think Nicks is all around the best by far and can do anything. Maybe Thomas can step into a check down type.

bigbluedefense
08-31-2011, 09:45 AM
During that Dallas game, I noticed Eli checked down to Barden underneath on some occasions. *shrug*

He has the body to go up the middle and box out on curl routes. Cruz seems better outside than slot, even though his body type is that of a slot WR.

Hagan just makes sense to me.

bigbluedefense
08-31-2011, 09:46 AM
Barden is on PUP for 6 weeks anyway. Might as well bring in Hagan, and worst case scenario, cut Hagan when Barden comes back.

Jughead10
08-31-2011, 10:45 AM
Barden is on PUP for 6 weeks anyway. Might as well bring in Hagan, and worst case scenario, cut Hagan when Barden comes back.

I thought I saw Hagan catch a TD for the raiders on Sunday night? Not sure if it was the same Hagan. I assumed so.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-31-2011, 11:02 AM
Barden is on PUP for 6 weeks anyway. Might as well bring in Hagan, and worst case scenario, cut Hagan when Barden comes back.

Hagan is in beast mode in Oakland. He is not going anywhere I don't think. He is impressing people out there with his play.

Giantsfan1080
08-31-2011, 11:19 AM
Clayton seems like he would be the most ideal fit but he's had a blah camp while on offense. He's doing really well on specials but I don't think he will make the team just because of that.

bigbluedefense
08-31-2011, 11:27 AM
Damn man. Why do we let go of Hagan? He was a very solid player for us. That was a mistake.

Sometimes you have to let go of "potential" and have a couple of bluecollar guys on the roster that can get stuff done when called upon. Hagan and Chase were 2 of those guys.

And now neither are on the roster.

Giantsfan1080
08-31-2011, 11:27 AM
Damn man. Why do we let go of Hagan? He was a very solid player for us. That was a mistake.

Sometimes you have to let go of "potential" and have a couple of bluecollar guys on the roster that can get stuff done when called upon. Hagan and Chase were 2 of those guys.

And now neither are on the roster.

Probably because they were banking on Smith coming back and would have had no room for Hagan. Whoops.

bigbluedefense
08-31-2011, 11:32 AM
Even then, we keep Clayton over Hagan? What has Clayton really done?

And am I the only one concerned about Jernigan? Doesn't he look and play exactly like Sinorice Moss did? I'll be patient, but truth be told, I expect absolutely nothing out of him this year. Let's see if the light turns on next year.

bigbluedefense
08-31-2011, 11:40 AM
Btw, Rolle looked very good at nickel CB. He was pressing the crap out of Holmes and Holmes struggled to break through it.

I think as long as Ross can stay healthy, and Prince can give us solid reps as the 4 when he comes back, our secondary should be fine. We're still deep in the secondary if Prince can come back. Prince was a pro ready CB on paper, hopefully he can step up.

He was in a complex defense in Nebraska too.

I'm just worried about the offense. I just hope we can pound everyone to submission. I really wish we were able to see Barden this PS. He's so frustrating.

Giantsfan1080
08-31-2011, 11:43 AM
Barden is frustrating because he can really break through. Once he's healthy he'll be on the field. The secondary will likely still be fine but just for once I would have loved to see what this defense could do at full strength over a 10 game span.

bigbluedefense
08-31-2011, 11:45 AM
Should've signed Randy Moss!

Oh yeah. I went there. Nicks in the slot beating up DBs inside. Moss going deep.

We still got time Reese. We still got time. Make the call.

scottyboy
08-31-2011, 11:49 AM
don't be so harsh on JJ early BBD, he's a 3rd round rookie out of Troy for pete's sake! give him time.

but yeah, Hixon needs to step it up, big time. We really just need to draft Sanu next draft, justs sayin'.

I never bought the Cruz hype, Clayton I love, but is blah on O as Zak stated before. Man, it'd be something to see Thomas live up to his draft slot and be a playmaker for us on O

Giantsfan1080
08-31-2011, 11:54 AM
don't be so harsh on JJ early BBD, he's a 3rd round rookie out of Troy for pete's sake! give him time.

but yeah, Hixon needs to step it up, big time. We really just need to draft Sanu next draft, justs sayin'.

I never bought the Cruz hype, Clayton I love, but is blah on O as Zak stated before. Man, it'd be something to see Thomas live up to his draft slot and be a playmaker for us on O

Or Mark Harrison if he decides to leave early.

bigbluedefense
08-31-2011, 11:58 AM
I'd love Sanu honestly. He's basically the 2nd coming of Hakeem Nicks.

If our WR core looks the same as is right now come week 17, I'm all for drafting Sanu in round 1. Even over a LB.

I'm going to be patient with Jernigan. I'm just saying, early reviews aren't too good. He just reminds me of Sinorice. And that's never a good thing.

bigbluedefense
08-31-2011, 12:03 PM
I AM going to be harsh on Beckum though. He sucks.

He just has no place in our offense. He's a glorified big body WR. You figure we would flex him out to the slot and use him in that role but he just seems to struggle running routes.

If you guys think Mario sucks at running routes (he's not great, but he takes more heat than he deserves on this board for it), go watch Beckum. He makes Mario look like Steve Smith.

Giantsfan1080
08-31-2011, 12:19 PM
NYG would be mighty happy if we went Sanu in Round 1 I would think. He's pleading for high level offensive players.

Giantsfan1080
08-31-2011, 12:21 PM
Beckum has and will always be a terrible draft pick. I still don't understand what they were thinking with him. He's going to be forced into the offense more now so his numbers at the end of the year probably won't look terrible but what a waste.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-31-2011, 12:30 PM
Damn man. Why do we let go of Hagan? He was a very solid player for us. That was a mistake.

Sometimes you have to let go of "potential" and have a couple of bluecollar guys on the roster that can get stuff done when called upon. Hagan and Chase were 2 of those guys.

And now neither are on the roster.

Yeah based on what I read on an Oak Raiders MB they like him. LOL. You didn't know we let him go or chose not to re-sign him? I thought he was a solid player for us.

He is doing well in Oakland for us though.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-31-2011, 02:30 PM
Hey,

Which member made a play and helped me post a Coughlin transcript based on how complex our offense is? It should be somewhere in the 57 pages, but one member made a play and found it. Can that member re-post it?

OSUGiants17
08-31-2011, 02:49 PM
Sanu across from Nicks with Mannigham, Jernegan and Cruz?!? I'm hard just thinking about it lol

Rosebud
08-31-2011, 02:57 PM
I'm going to worry about our passing game once the games start to matter and it's holding us back. With an improved OL, we'll be running the **** out of the ball. That'll beat defenses up and mean that Eli will have more time in the pocket than he's gotten the past few years. With an easy start to the season and that extra time in the pocket and the easier situations he'll face with an improved running game I expect him to develop chemistry with the young receivers just fine. The short offseason really ****** us in terms of eli getting to build chemistry with some of these guys in the confines of our offensive system.

Giantsfan1080
08-31-2011, 02:59 PM
Hey,

Which member made a play and helped me post a Coughlin transcript based on how complex our offense is? It should be somewhere in the 57 pages, but one member made a play and found it. Can that member re-post it?

I think I helped you might that post might have been in the old Giants discussion thread. We had that problem where the old thread got deleted somehow.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-31-2011, 03:04 PM
I think I helped you might that post might have been in the old Giants discussion thread. We had that problem where the old thread got deleted somehow.

Hmm.. where did you find it prior though? Can you find the site? That's such a key quote.

Giantsfan1080
08-31-2011, 03:08 PM
Hmm.. where did you find it prior though? Can you find the site? That's such a key quote.

When I looked the first time I just found it from when you first posted it. I got it off that thread.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-31-2011, 03:14 PM
Oh ok, that makes sense. Damn, giants.com has to make it easier to sift through archives.

Giantsfan1080
08-31-2011, 03:24 PM
Oh ok, that makes sense. Damn, giants.com has to make it easier to sift through archives.

Yeah I tried doing a Google search but couldn't come up with it. If we knew when he said it would be a lot easier obviously.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-31-2011, 04:44 PM
Yeah I tried doing a Google search but couldn't come up with it. If we knew when he said it would be a lot easier obviously.

10.13.10

That Texans game at Houston where Nicks scored, and we held Foster to practically nothing.

It was that game, and afterward

Giantsfan1080
08-31-2011, 05:25 PM
Was this it?

Well, they’re spending more time together. They’ve grown to know each other better. There’s good communication between the two. There’s an expectation level that’s very high. Throughout the course of the week in which you prepare, you’re talking constantly about what the expectation is from the quarterback standpoint, what the receiver is going to do in this situation. We knew that there would be a lot of press involved yesterday and so that ability of the two players to talk about how in fact the receiver was going to get off the ball, what his best method was, how his break point would be affected by the way in which the opponent plays, so all of those things. You just give them more time to work together.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-31-2011, 06:48 PM
Was this it?

No he talked about the complexity of the offense in this quote.

Giantsfan1080
08-31-2011, 08:21 PM
No he talked about the complexity of the offense in this quote.

I looked through all of the October transcripts for that month and that was the closest thing I could find. Sorry man.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-31-2011, 08:35 PM
I looked through all of the October transcripts for that month and that was the closest thing I could find. Sorry man.

Thanks man for trying!

bigbluedefense
09-01-2011, 02:18 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't care about tonight's game?

Giantsfan1080
09-01-2011, 02:30 PM
I do but none of the starters are going to play so it doesn't really matter. I'm hoping Weatherford wins the punting job tonight though.

Rosebud
09-01-2011, 03:03 PM
I'm not going to lie, I've cared about preseason the least I think I've ever cared about preseason. Barden's my only real surprise from what I've heard, as he was another player that I thought might take a big step this year the way Beatty, Joseph and JPP seem poised to do. The shortened offseason's really tainted everything for me since I think it's a big part of why our passing game is having issues. This complicated offense requires tons of repetition so that guys don't get caught up thinking on the field but are still making the right decisions, that takes time and I can just hope that the early season schedule provides us that time.

I'm still excited to see our defense with a DL that'll be scary as long as it's health doesn't get worse, losing Austin hurts on this point especially since he would've really helped keep Canty fresh. I'm still excited about the changing of the guard along the OL, I've been a big Beatty supporter, I'm a fan of Baas', and I love the idea of Diehl playing a position he's better suited for than LT. With a strong OL our backs should be in for a huge year, I think both Jacobs and Bradshaw can break 1000 yards and if needed both Ware and Scott can fill in successfully.

I'm concerned about Eli, but I'm reassured by our early season schedule. Him and his new targets just need reps together and once the games start to matter more I think Eli will hone in on doing what the receivers can do, not what Killdrive wants them to do. I think Nicks will become that go to guy that Steve Smith used to be even if it's coming from a different part of the field. Although that'll mean that Mario needs to step up and really draw attention from defenses this year and that third receiver, whether it's Cruz, Hixon, Thomas or even maybe Barden eventually, needs to burn teams when they get the chance. I'm expecting very little production from the TE which is why I think we need our 3rd WR to provide some big plays to keep teams from focusing in on Mario and Nicks. But if our running game is clicking like it should and we stay committed to it, I do ultimately trust Eli to figure out how to deliver the few clutch plays we'll need, especially if him and Nicks start clicking again.

Giantsfan1080
09-01-2011, 03:44 PM
I might be crazy but I think Watson or Kennedy end up helping out the line in a very good way.

Rosebud
09-01-2011, 04:27 PM
I might be crazy but I think Watson or Kennedy end up helping out the line in a very good way.

I hope so since Watson has been a useful rotational player before, but I'm not going to hold my breath on giants FA DT signings. I'm cautiously optimistic that we can keep our DTs fresh since Joseph will take over at NT, we've got those guys on the bench and we might be seeing 4 DE packages again, but it is a concern for me since a lack of depth down the middle is what killed our D last year. It wore Canty out which hurt our run D and it meant our LBs had to do more which wore down Boley from his probowl early season pace.

Jughead10
09-01-2011, 07:53 PM
Not watching the game, but we must be giving Andre Brown every chance possible to make the team. 21 carries in the first half????

BigBlueNorwegian
09-01-2011, 08:11 PM
Not watching the game, but we must be giving Andre Brown every chance possible to make the team. 21 carries in the first half????

Yeah, and he is looking very good out there as well. Had some nice runs against the Pats 1st string defense. I want us to roll with him as our 3rd back, but I am not sure if we can manage to lure Da'rel Scott onto the practice squad. I like him a lot as well.

LTgiants
09-01-2011, 08:13 PM
The Jets would snatch up Da'rel Scott in a second if the Giants put him on the market.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-01-2011, 08:15 PM
Sintim down. Looks serious. At this rate, we're not going to have a defense by october...

NY+Giants=NYG
09-01-2011, 08:18 PM
Sorry for him. Can our damn defensive players who are drafted early stay healthy? God that's very frustrating!!!

BigBlueNorwegian
09-01-2011, 08:54 PM
LOL! We scored a TD on a fake punt! Da'rel Scott is soo fast, He bles by Brandon Tate like he was A DT. We should carry four RBs this yr, Bradshaw,Jacobs,Brown and Scott. i don't want to lose any of them.

LTgiants
09-01-2011, 08:57 PM
what about Ware?

LonghornsLegend
09-01-2011, 09:01 PM
I don't think there is anyway you guys get Scott to the PS, he's a keeper for the future. I really hope Sintim is ok, he's 1 of my favorite Giants, sounds like this might be a big injury plagued season for you guys.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-01-2011, 09:11 PM
what about Ware?

Meh. He's all right i guess, but Scott and Brown are really exciting backs. And I agree with you Longhorn, there's no way we get Scott on the PS now.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 07:45 AM
Scott made the team last night. Sorry Brown.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 07:46 AM
I don't think there is anyway you guys get Scott to the PS, he's a keeper for the future. I really hope Sintim is ok, he's 1 of my favorite Giants, sounds like this might be a big injury plagued season for you guys.

Out for the year. Also every year since the Super Bowl has been injury plagued.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 10:33 AM
So we IR Clint S.

Keep Jacobs, Bradshaw, Brown and D. Scott..

4 Backs for a team that has an offensive identity of running ball.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 10:37 AM
I don't think we're going to keep Brown. The coaching staff really likes Ware and he's been a good soldier in his time here. Brown will get another shot somewhere else.

With the Sintim injury I guess we will keep Herzlich, Paysinger, Williams, and Tracy. I thought one or two of them might get cut but we'll keep one and try to PS Williams most likely.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 10:38 AM
How did Herzlich play? With Sintim to IR, I guess both Paysinger and Herzlich's spots just got a little safer.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 10:51 AM
How did Herzlich play? With Sintim to IR, I guess both Paysinger and Herzlich's spots just got a little safer.

I didn't watch the game but reports are that he did well. He also had a sack in the game.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 10:54 AM
I don't think we're going to keep Brown. The coaching staff really likes Ware and he's been a good soldier in his time here. Brown will get another shot somewhere else.

With the Sintim injury I guess we will keep Herzlich, Paysinger, Williams, and Tracy. I thought one or two of them might get cut but we'll keep one and try to PS Williams most likely.

Why Ware? I would keep Brown who is younger by a year and can be developed. I think he has more upside than Ware. You would keep Jones? No way, forget Tracy or like use that spot off a WR spot. Jones has flashed more than Herzlich.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 11:03 AM
Why Ware? I would keep Brown who is younger by a year and can be developed. I think he has more upside than Ware. You would keep Jones? No way, forget Tracy or like use that spot off a WR spot. Jones has flashed more than Herzlich.

I like Ware too. Everytime he gets in (however rare it is) he shows something. Younger by a year means nothing to me considering how under used Ware has been and the fact that Brown already has an achilles tear. Everyone said Brown looked good last night, I couldn't watch, but 21 carries for 68 yards is hardly impressive.

Was Ware hurt last night? The fact that he didn't have a carry or catch makes me think he has already made this team.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 11:05 AM
I like Ware too. Everytime he gets in (however rare it is) he shows something. Younger by a year means nothing to me considering how under used Ware has been and the fact that Brown already has an achilles tear. Everyone said Brown looked good last night, I couldn't watch, but 21 carries for 68 yards is hardly impressive.

Was Ware hurt last night. The fact that he didn't have a carry or catch makes me think he has already made this team.

Again, he did that with OUR 2nd UNIT against the Pats first unit. That's very impressive when you are running against guys like fat Albert, Wilfork and the other guy.

Put him with our first unit and he can make things happen. Eventually Ware has to do something, or he will get beat by a younger guy, which could happen this year.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 11:10 AM
Again, he did that with OUR 2nd UNIT against the Pats first unit. That's very impressive when you are running against guys like fat Albert, Wilfork and the other guy.

Put him with our first unit and he can make things happen. Eventually Ware has to do something, or he will get beat by a younger guy, which could happen this year.

How can you judge that Ware has to do something? When has he had the opportunity? It's not like we were ever expecting him to do anything other than be a 3rd RB. I don't know why they don't let him return kicks more often.

Again, I really do think the fact that he didn't play at all makes me believe his spot on the team isn't in question. Unless he was hurt.

OSUGiants17
09-02-2011, 11:13 AM
What do you guys think our 53 man roster will look like? My guess is this:

QB:
Eli Manning
David Carr

RB:
Ahmad Bradshaw
Brandon Jacobs
DJ Ware
Da'Rel Scott
Henry Hynoski (FB)

WR:
Hakeem Nicks
Mario Manningham
Domenik Hixon
Devin Thomas
Victor Cruz
Jerrel Jernigan

TE:
Travis Beckum
Bear Pascoe (FB/TE)
Daniel Coats or Jake Ballard

OL:
Will Beatty
Kareem McKenzie
David Diehl
Chris Snee
David Baas
James Brewer
Stacy Andrews
Mitch Petrus
Kevin Boothe

DE:
Justin Tuck
Osi Umenyiora
Jason Pierre-Paul
Dave Tollefson
Ayanga Okpokowuruk

DT:
Chris Canty
Linval Joseph
Gabe Watson
Jimmy Kennedy

LB:
Michael Boley
Jonathan Goff
Mathias Kiawanuka
Spencer Paysinger
Mark Herzlich
Greg Jones
Phillip Dillard

CB:
Corey Webster
Aaron Ross
Michael Coe
Prince Amukamara
Extra Corner

S:
Antrel Rolle
Kenny Phillips
Deon Grant
Tyler Sash

STs:
K- Lawrence Tynes
P- Steve Weatherford
LS- Zak DeOssie


When Barden comes back from the PUP he will most likely take Okpokowuruk's spot

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 11:17 AM
I think that looks fairly accurate. Probably going to be correct within 1 or 2 choices.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 11:33 AM
How can you judge that Ware has to do something? When has he had the opportunity? It's not like we were ever expecting him to do anything other than be a 3rd RB. I don't know why they don't let him return kicks more often.

Again, I really do think the fact that he didn't play at all makes me believe his spot on the team isn't in question. Unless he was hurt.

When he played last season against the Vikings in garbage time. You don't get a roster spot just because. If Brown has higher potential and is better than the player he was when we scouted him, then he could get that spot. Scott I don't think will be cut, so that leaves Ware out.

Again, it may come down to special teams where Brown played as well. He got the call and made the call to do the fake punt. So that will contribute too, if he can play special teams and be a leader on the punt team.

Well if they let Ware do that and he got hurt then what? Bradshaw and Jacobs aren't superman back there in terms of durability.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 11:42 AM
Well if they let Ware do that and he got hurt then what? Bradshaw and Jacobs aren't superman back there in terms of durability.

I don't get this last part. If they let Ware do what and got hurt? Play on the punt team? It would be the same scenario if any RB played there.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 11:43 AM
Why Ware? I would keep Brown who is younger by a year and can be developed. I think he has more upside than Ware. You would keep Jones? No way, forget Tracy or like use that spot off a WR spot. Jones has flashed more than Herzlich.

I think Jones had a guaranteed spot so I didn't list him with the others. He will definitely be here.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 11:44 AM
I don't get this last part. If they let Ware do what and got hurt? Play on the punt team? It would be the same scenario if any RB played there.

Return kicks. Didn't he return kick offs at one point?

OSUGiants17
09-02-2011, 11:44 AM
I don't see Williams making the roster, I think Paysinger, Herzy and of course Jones have all proven to be better

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 11:44 AM
Coughlin likes Ware. There's no way he's getting cut for Brown. I think it's more likely they keep all 5 than actually cutting Ware.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 11:46 AM
Return kicks. Didn't he return kick offs at one point?

Well yeah. But you could say that about Hixon too. If Hixon got hurt returning kicks, some other WR would have to step up. Anyway, I think we are keeping 4 RBs. Scott would have to step up and bring the insurance if Jacobs or Bradshaw missed time.

But that is probably all a moot point anyway. We've seen a lot of returns because I think teams are practicing it, but when the season starts, I think we see a lot of kneels. I probably shouldn't have brought up kick returns.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 11:48 AM
I also think they keep Rosenfels over Carr.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 11:48 AM
Well yeah. But you could say that about Hixon too. If Hixon got hurt returning kicks, some other WR would have to step up. Anyway, I think we are keeping 4 RBs. Scott would have to step up and bring the insurance if Jacobs or Bradshaw missed time.

Well, that's not a good thing putting him back there with Bradshaw and Jacobs not staying healthy.

And I think that's what we are seeing. No Hixon returning kicks. Who are we seeing? Thomas. Punts? JJ... I don't think we are putting Hixon back there considering he can play X Z and Y.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 11:49 AM
I also think they keep Rosenfels over Carr.

Really? Did Rosenfels play at all this preseason? I'd rather have Carr on past experience.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 11:50 AM
Well, that's not a good thing putting him back there with Bradshaw and Jacobs not staying healthy.

And I think that's what we are seeing. No Hixon returning kicks. Who are we seeing? Thomas. Punts? JJ... I don't think we are putting Hixon back there considering he can play X Z and Y.

No way Coughlin lets JJ catch a punt regular season. I think he is just avoiding injury to the real returners in fake games.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 11:50 AM
Really? Did Rosenfels play at all this preseason? I'd rather have Carr on past experience.

No, he has a bad sore throat and now a back issue..

Ware had an injury and didn't play. Beckum has an ankle injury and didn't play as well.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 11:52 AM
Really? Did Rosenfels play at all this preseason? I'd rather have Carr on past experience.

Rosenfels played in the first game and he was really good. He's had an unfortunate situation with the strep getting into his blood stream but I still think they keep him. He's owed more money also so the cap hit would be bigger than keeping Carr.

Also Jernigan won't be returning punts during the regualr season. Coughlin's biggest thing in punts is ball security and the major issue JJ is having right now. Let's not forget the torturous years of having McQuarters return punts because he hardly ever fumbled.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 11:52 AM
No way Coughlin lets JJ catch a punt regular season. I think he is just avoiding injury to the real returners in fake games.

That's why he is getting these reps. It's not like we are doing this for the fun of it. That's why they are throwing JJ in the deep in. No mini camps, no OTAs, so if you want the guy to be in that role, he has to play that role every single time possible.

You could be right too. But at least you'd see "that" guy sometimes. If you read the training camp reports, it looks like JJ is the guy. It's not like someone else is doing it, and we are tossing JJ for the fun of it.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 11:55 AM
Rosenfels played in the first game and he was really good. He's had an unfortunate situation with the strep getting into his blood stream but I still think they keep him. He's owed more money also so the cap hit would be bigger than keeping Carr.

That cap hit is only $700,000.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 11:59 AM
That cap hit is only $700,000.

Still cheaper than Carr.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 12:00 PM
That's why he is getting these reps. It's not like we are doing this for the fun of it. That's why they are throwing JJ in the deep in. No mini camps, no OTAs, so if you want the guy to be in that role, he has to play that role every single time possible.

You could be right too. But at least you'd see "that" guy sometimes. If you read the training camp reports, it looks like JJ is the guy. It's not like someone else is doing it, and we are tossing JJ for the fun of it.

I agree, I think they put him into there to see IF he could do it. And now that he's shown he can't, they are going to go back to someone he knows that can.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 12:03 PM
I agree, I think they put him into there to see IF he could do it. And now that he's shown he can't, they are going to go back to someone he knows that can.

That could be like I said, but you'd think they would give that guy some reps in a game time situation. Plus who is that? Darius R? You normally don't put a cold guy who hasnt done it for a year in game time situation and now stick him in there rusty. It's not like they gave him reps to shake off the rust. If they did then I would agree to what you are saying without any doubts. But all indications seemed we were going hardcore with JJ trying to break him in. That goes from practice to games. Every second and every chance we seemed to toss him in and let him swim.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 12:04 PM
Still cheaper than Carr.

Yeah. I think Carr is better. It might be worth saving 700,000 though considering we're probably screwed either way if any have to play extensively.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 12:05 PM
Yeah. I think Carr is better. It might be worth saving 700,000 though considering we're probably screwed either way if any have to play extensively.

This is true. I shudder to think of our team without Eli playing.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 12:05 PM
That could be like I said, but you'd think they would give that guy some reps in a game time situation. Plus who is that? Darius R? You normally don't put a cold guy who hasnt done it for a year in game time situation and now stick him in there rusty. It's not like they gave him reps to shake off the rust. If they did then I would agree to what you are saying without any doubts. But all indications seemed we were going hardcore with JJ trying to break him in. That goes from practice to games. Every second and every chance we seemed to toss him in and let him swim.

Hixon probably.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 12:06 PM
I am kind of suprised they haven't let anyone else at all return punts. That doesn't make much sense to me.

NYG who punted better last night? Weatherford or Dode?

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 12:08 PM
Hixon probably.


See I don't like that. And if he gets jacked up, then what? Cruz? Thomas? I'd rather keep him healthy and let him play in all the personnel packages. Unless we plan on making Cruz play Z and move MM as Y, assuming Hixon gets hurt.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 12:13 PM
See I don't like that. And if he gets jacked up, then what? Cruz? Thomas? I'd rather keep him healthy and let him play in all the personnel packages. Unless we plan on making Cruz play Z and move MM as Y, assuming Hixon gets hurt.

You can't always be worried about people getting jacked up. You're sounding like the commissioner.

From what I have seen, the chances of Jernigan muffing 8 punts throughout the season is much greater than Hixon getting hurt.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 12:17 PM
You can't always be worried about people getting jacked up. You're sounding like the commissioner.

From what I have seen, the chances of Jernigan muffing 8 punts throughout the season is much greater than Hixon getting hurt.

I am worried because of depth and impact in terms of scheme. Otherwise I could careless. Fassel did that to Sehorn, and Sehorn was a shell of himself. The rule is dont put your good players back there. That's why you put scrubs there and that's their ticket to make the team.

Hixon's value now with Smith gone has gone up big time in terms of role and meaning for this offense. That's the perspective where I am coming from. If he was there with a better WR in front, then play him all you want. If he gets hurt, that would stink, but ah well.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 12:45 PM
I wonder if Scott can return kicks or punts. I'd love to see his speed on show during specials.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 12:47 PM
What do you guys think our 53 man roster will look like? My guess is this:

QB:
Eli Manning
David Carr

RB:
Ahmad Bradshaw
Brandon Jacobs
DJ Ware
Da'Rel Scott
Henry Hynoski (FB)

WR:
Hakeem Nicks
Mario Manningham
Domenik Hixon
Devin Thomas
Victor Cruz
Jerrel Jernigan

TE:
Travis Beckum
Bear Pascoe (FB/TE)
Daniel Coats or Jake Ballard

OL:
Will Beatty
Kareem McKenzie
David Diehl
Chris Snee
David Baas
James Brewer
Stacy Andrews
Mitch Petrus
Kevin Boothe

DE:
Justin Tuck
Osi Umenyiora
Jason Pierre-Paul
Dave Tollefson
Ayanga Okpokowuruk

DT:
Chris Canty
Linval Joseph
Gabe Watson
Jimmy Kennedy

LB:
Michael Boley
Jonathan Goff
Mathias Kiawanuka
Spencer Paysinger
Mark Herzlich
Greg Jones
Phillip Dillard

CB:
Corey Webster
Aaron Ross
Michael Coe
Prince Amukamara
Extra Corner

S:
Antrel Rolle
Kenny Phillips
Deon Grant
Tyler Sash

STs:
K- Lawrence Tynes
P- Steve Weatherford
LS- Zak DeOssie


When Barden comes back from the PUP he will most likely take Okpokowuruk's spot

Brian Williams is the extra corner.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 01:19 PM
Yeah. I think Carr is better. It might be worth saving 700,000 though considering we're probably screwed either way if any have to play extensively.

Actually I screwed this up. We would be saving a significant amount of money by cutting Rosenfels. The 700,000 is just his portion of the signing bonus which would be dead money. But his base salary is 3 milion. So we would be saving 2.3 million. David Carr only makes 800,000 to 900,000.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 01:22 PM
I am worried because of depth and impact in terms of scheme. Otherwise I could careless. Fassel did that to Sehorn, and Sehorn was a shell of himself. The rule is dont put your good players back there. That's why you put scrubs there and that's their ticket to make the team.

Hixon's value now with Smith gone has gone up big time in terms of role and meaning for this offense. That's the perspective where I am coming from. If he was there with a better WR in front, then play him all you want. If he gets hurt, that would stink, but ah well.

Well Sehorn is a bit different than Hixon. Sehorn was a legitimately very good player. Hixon is still a role player.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 01:36 PM
Now because of the loss of Smith his value goes up due to his versatility.

Giantsfan1080
09-02-2011, 01:38 PM
How about the punter battle last night?

Rosebud
09-02-2011, 01:40 PM
Seriously. Hixon hasn't separated himself from UDFAs and reclamation projects like Cruz and Thomas, as a WR. So why are we so worried about his health, especially if Cruz ends up getting the third most reps out of our WR corps.

Jughead10
09-02-2011, 01:46 PM
Now because of the loss of Smith his value goes up due to his versatility.

But his main versatility is because of his ability on special teams.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-02-2011, 01:55 PM
But his main versatility is because of his ability on special teams.

It adds to it but his versatility comes because he can play all the WR spots. Just like on offensive line versatility is defined as a player who can play OT, OG, or OC when needed. Same with WR. You have to master all the WR spots and do it right, especially in this PHd system.

Rosebud
09-02-2011, 03:41 PM
It adds to it but his versatility comes because he can play all the WR spots. Just like on offensive line versatility is defined as a player who can play OT, OG, or OC when needed. Same with WR. You have to master all the WR spots and do it right, especially in this PHd system.

While I appreciate how valuable Hixon's ability to step into all of the different WR spots is to our team, that doesn't mean he's better at those roles than some of the youngins we have who are focusing on one role. I think the staff expects Cruz and Thomas to be able to contribute when called upon, at least that's what I got from Cruz getting so many reps with the 1st string that last game. I mean if Cruz and Thomas bomb as receivers than of course Hixon's importance sky rockets, but despite the struggles we have had I think the coaching staff has faith that those guys and Eli will gel over the early part of our schedule. In which case Hixon isn't so important that we should go with a punt returner who's struggling mightily at holding onto the ball. I mean I don't want to see another Reynauld situation, where I'm celebrating that he didn't muff the punt, even if it puts a guy who's important depth for at a higher risk of injury. Plus I don't for a second buy that the extra snaps returning punts make an injury more likely than if we made him our #3 receiver because of his versatility and didn't get Cruz or Thomas as involved as they might be ready to be.

LonghornsLegend
09-02-2011, 09:39 PM
Very very upset to hear about Sintim. 1 of my favorite Giants on the team and was always anxious to see him get comfortable in 1 position and blossom. He had a ton of versatility, athleticism, and physical tools to be a stud IMO. Not only is his season done but he'll likely never be the same player. I don't know how if he really hurts you guys more for depth, or as a contributor in 2011, but I felt pretty strongly he could be a very good player for you guys.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-03-2011, 09:46 AM
While I appreciate how valuable Hixon's ability to step into all of the different WR spots is to our team, that doesn't mean he's better at those roles than some of the youngins we have who are focusing on one role. I think the staff expects Cruz and Thomas to be able to contribute when called upon, at least that's what I got from Cruz getting so many reps with the 1st string that last game. I mean if Cruz and Thomas bomb as receivers than of course Hixon's importance sky rockets, but despite the struggles we have had I think the coaching staff has faith that those guys and Eli will gel over the early part of our schedule. In which case Hixon isn't so important that we should go with a punt returner who's struggling mightily at holding onto the ball. I mean I don't want to see another Reynauld situation, where I'm celebrating that he didn't muff the punt, even if it puts a guy who's important depth for at a higher risk of injury. Plus I don't for a second buy that the extra snaps returning punts make an injury more likely than if we made him our #3 receiver because of his versatility and didn't get Cruz or Thomas as involved as they might be ready to be.




Hixon I think is the 3rd best due to just being in the system longer. He knows what he is doing. He filled in and played X when Plax went down. He can play Z and Y too. I think that alone lifts his value. I think Cruz has a lot to do to prove himself. I feel more comfortable with Hixon than anyone else. I wouldn't want him to get hurt and then have Cruz put in there. My guess is that he'd just play Z with Mario coming in. I am not sure how he would do if he played Y.

Even Eric on BBI, said we will see in 10 days. I think it may be JJ the way we are force feeding him. If Hixon gets the nod it may be good from the special teams standpoint, but I would not want to risk him because of his value and versatility he brings.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-03-2011, 10:47 AM
Very very upset to hear about Sintim. 1 of my favorite Giants on the team and was always anxious to see him get comfortable in 1 position and blossom. He had a ton of versatility, athleticism, and physical tools to be a stud IMO. Not only is his season done but he'll likely never be the same player. I don't know how if he really hurts you guys more for depth, or as a contributor in 2011, but I felt pretty strongly he could be a very good player for you guys.

He looks to be done for a long time.


Giants backup linebacker Clint Sintim's career appears to be in jeopardy after he suffered a devastating injury to his right knee Thursday.

Sintim, a former second-round pick, ruptured the patella tendon and likely severed the ACL after a chop block in the third quarter of the team's 18-17 exhibition win over the Patriots.

It was the same knee in which Sintim tore the ACL last season, resulting in a grueling rehab and comeback that came to a jarring halt at Gillette Stadium.

Malaka
09-03-2011, 10:51 AM
Wow, the season hasn't even begun and we have been totally ravaged by injuries. Are we paying some sort of karmic debt after we made history with 18-1? because it seems every year after we have been derailed by injuries year in and year out.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-03-2011, 10:57 AM
We always are. This is not new. We tend to get killed at 1 or 2 positions every year.

We went from LB to DE to RB to OL/RB and now CB.

Giantsfan1080
09-03-2011, 11:57 AM
Weatherford won the punting job.

Giantsfan1080
09-03-2011, 12:00 PM
These are the cuts so far.

1.C Jim Cordle

2.WR Darius Reynaud

3.DE Ayanga Okpokuwuruk

4.OL Ikecheku Ndukwe
5.K Rhys Lloyd

6.DE Craig Marshall

7.TE Chris Hopkins

8.DT Gabe Watson

9.DE Alex Hall

10.S Jerrard Tarrant

11.LB/DE Adrian Tracy

12.TE Daniel Coats

13.P Matt Dodge (*Giants may try to trade him before cutting him)