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Rosebud
09-13-2011, 11:51 AM
You don't draft for the first few weeks of kids' rookie seasons.

Giantsfan1080
09-13-2011, 11:52 AM
Well you can't predict injuries. Prince will be back shortly and the Austin thing is just bad luck. Brewer we took so we could throw him into our minor league offensive line system we have going.

You could have said we wasted a 2nd round pick on Joseph last year because he didn't play but look at how giddy we all are now about him(I might be 90% of the giddyness).

NY+Giants=NYG
09-13-2011, 11:54 AM
But the draft is a long time away. Once the OL gels we'll be running the ball a lot better and more often, with time Mario can get back to playing really well and we still don't know for sure that no one's going to step into the 3rd WR role and play well. Hell Barden could still come back and give us that high caliber troika of receivers. I'm not opposed to getting another weapon, but that doesn't mean I've already given up on the guys we do have after one game coming off of a shortened offseason.

Yeah the OL will gel but the question is WHEN? By the time they gel, we might be headed for a disaster season. We need to win these games coming up before the BYE because after it we play very tough teams.

If we play after the bye and have a losing record we may be headed for a top 10 pick. I am not optimistic about Barden. He is a 26 year old player who has been 3 years and has done nothing.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-13-2011, 11:55 AM
You don't draft for the first few weeks of kids' rookie seasons.

I know, but you also want to get a return on your investment, especially since you are not loaded with talent. We need these players to step up and they are either hurt or inactive.

Forenci
09-13-2011, 12:34 PM
I know, but you also want to get a return on your investment, especially since you are not loaded with talent. We need these players to step up and they are either hurt or inactive.

I've always felt that unless you're drafting an elite player, or a 1st round RB/LB, expecting a big impact out of your rookies is asking too much.

You could argue Prince could have been an impact type player as a rookie but he got injured and you just can't control that.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-13-2011, 03:12 PM
I've always felt that unless you're drafting an elite player, or a 1st round RB/LB, expecting a big impact out of your rookies is asking too much.

You could argue Prince could have been an impact type player as a rookie but he got injured and you just can't control that.

Just angry because he was the last prospect to sign and first 1st rounder to get out. And with no mini camps and OTAs it makes it worse. Only we can manage to get our first rounders hurt.


From Ross, to Kiwi, to KP and now Prince. We should wrap JPP in bubble wrap like in the movie Little Giants.

bigbluedefense
09-13-2011, 03:18 PM
Well you can't predict injuries. Prince will be back shortly and the Austin thing is just bad luck. Brewer we took so we could throw him into our minor league offensive line system we have going.

You could have said we wasted a 2nd round pick on Joseph last year because he didn't play but look at how giddy we all are now about him(I might be 90% of the giddyness).

No, I'm with you on the Joseph bandwagon. He's a beast.

I'm not worried about our defense. We actually had a decent game defensively in spite of Fewell's ineptitude and starting a rookie MIKE unexpectedly. The downfall of our defense was our inability to cover the TE, and that had a lot to do with the LB core, Jones in particular.

The offense is looking scary bad though.

bigbluedefense
09-13-2011, 03:20 PM
Just angry because he was the last prospect to sign and first 1st rounder to get out. And with no mini camps and OTAs it makes it worse. Only we can manage to get our first rounders hurt.


From Ross, to Kiwi, to KP and now Prince. We should wrap JPP in bubble wrap like in the movie Little Giants.

Other than LB, there isn't any defensive players we should consider drafting. Unless Kenny Phillips looks washed up, then maybe you consider safety too, but I doubt it.

My list of needs as of right now:

LB (both OLB and ILB)
WR
TE
Pass catching RB

That's pretty much it. We are stacked with talent on this team, we're just creamed by injuries and we have a bad coaching staff.

But I agree that we need to add a lot more skill position talent to this offense.

Rosebud
09-13-2011, 03:21 PM
No, I'm with you on the Joseph bandwagon. He's a beast.

I'm not worried about our defense. We actually had a decent game defensively in spite of Fewell's ineptitude and starting a rookie MIKE unexpectedly. The downfall of our defense was our inability to cover the TE, and that had a lot to do with the LB core, Jones in particular.

The offense is looking scary bad though.

Yeah but the O will improve, we just don't know how much or when. On D I'm not sure we have a solution for defending TEs other than Boley and taking away his blitzing for his not as impressive coverage is not an idea I'm in love with.

bigbluedefense
09-13-2011, 03:26 PM
Yeah but the O will improve, we just don't know how much or when. On D I'm not sure we have a solution for defending TEs other than Boley and taking away his blitzing for his not as impressive coverage is not an idea I'm in love with.

Speaking of blitzing LBs, I was disappointed in Kiwi. He had plenty of chances at the qb, he was blitzing very often out of the SAM spot, but he never got there. He got a couple of hurries, but nothing to really stand out.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-13-2011, 03:28 PM
Other than LB, there isn't any defensive players we should consider drafting. Unless Kenny Phillips looks washed up, then maybe you consider safety too, but I doubt it.

My list of needs as of right now:

LB (both OLB and ILB)
WR
TE
Pass catching RB

That's pretty much it. We are stacked with talent on this team, we're just creamed by injuries and we have a bad coaching staff.

But I agree that we need to add a lot more skill position talent to this offense.



Well pass catching RB is fine but if we don't utilize him, then what's the point? Bradshaw had a high percentage of passes caught. I remember seeing a stat for that.

WR is fine, and a TE. But we need a WR who can get this system. We have talent at WR. Either change the system or draft players who can 'get" this system and their associated routes.

Forenci
09-13-2011, 03:29 PM
Other than LB, there isn't any defensive players we should consider drafting. Unless Kenny Phillips looks washed up, then maybe you consider safety too, but I doubt it.

My list of needs as of right now:

LB (both OLB and ILB)
WR
TE
Pass catching RB

That's pretty much it. We are stacked with talent on this team, we're just creamed by injuries and we have a bad coaching staff.

But I agree that we need to add a lot more skill position talent to this offense.

TE and a pass catching RB only become a need if we revamp the coaching staff. I always recall people saying that Bradshaw was actually a pretty good pass catcher, but we just rarely ask it of our RB's.

TE is just a waste in our offense. At best, it's a guy like Boss who was just a safety valve (but a very useful one as we're seeing now). It's too bad, because as you said a couple days ago, a great TE can be absolutely unstoppable and a fantastic weapon for a QB.

I'd sell my soul for Antonio Gates. What he does at the TE position is just stupidly good.

bigbluedefense
09-13-2011, 03:36 PM
I'm guessing if we don't make the playoffs, we'll have a new coaching staff.

And if we do make the playoffs, then our issues probably aren't as major as they seem right now.

So it all really depends on how the season shapes up. But my guess is, if we don't make the playoffs, Coughlin is done. And then all bets are off on what happens next.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-13-2011, 03:40 PM
I still don't think he gets fired. If he does that means new system! Then we can see what the deal is. But another DC change then? How do you develop defensive players with that much turnover?

bigbluedefense
09-13-2011, 03:43 PM
I still don't think he gets fired. If he does that means new system! Then we can see what the deal is. But another DC change then? How do you develop defensive players with that much turnover?

That's why I want a defensive head coach. That way the defense will have consistency, and also Eli will have more freedom offensively. I think a defensive coach wouldn't micromanage the offense.

If I had to pick a guy, right now I have my eye on Mike Zimmer. 4-3 guy who uses a lot of man coverage. Tough, Parcells disciple, years of experience.

It's impossible to say who you want though when all of us don't know 90% of the coaches out there on the market.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-13-2011, 03:48 PM
That's why I want a defensive head coach. That way the defense will have consistency, and also Eli will have more freedom offensively. I think a defensive coach wouldn't micromanage the offense.

If I had to pick a guy, right now I have my eye on Mike Zimmer. 4-3 guy who uses a lot of man coverage. Tough, Parcells disciple, years of experience.

It's impossible to say who you want though when all of us don't know 90% of the coaches out there on the market.

Well you have HC, who once their HC, tend to sit back in a CEO or manager like position where the 2 coordinators do their own thing. Do you want that or do you want the HC to be a DC too?

bigbluedefense
09-13-2011, 03:55 PM
Well you have HC, who once their HC, tend to sit back in a CEO or manager like position where the 2 coordinators do their own thing. Do you want that or do you want the HC to be a DC too?

No I want the HC to be the DC as well. All the best defensive HCs are also their own DCs. Bellichick, Rex, Spags as a few examples.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-13-2011, 04:17 PM
No I want the HC to be the DC as well. All the best defensive HCs are also their own DCs. Bellichick, Rex, Spags as a few examples.

That's good, but then you need a VERY good offensive coach because chances are the HC/DC won't worry or care too much to want to get involved on that side of the ball..

I thought Josh M called a terrible game in the superbowl. Bill B was too worried about coaching the defense that he didn't tell Josh M. stop with the 5 and 7 step drop back. You're getting Brady killed.

Rex all he talks about is his defense, sometimes you want to say, hey rex, you are the HC. Defensive is just one aspect of the team. You need to worry about the offense and special teams too.

Jughead10
09-13-2011, 04:19 PM
That's good, but then you need a VERY good offensive coach because chances are the HC/DC won't worry or care too much to want to get involved on that side of the ball..

I thought Josh M called a terrible game in the superbowl. Bill B was too worried about coaching the defense that he didn't tell Josh M. stop with the 5 and 7 step drop back. You're getting Brady killed.

Rex all he talks about is his defense, sometimes you want to say, hey rex, you are the HC. Defensive is just one aspect of the team. You need to worry about the offense and special teams too.

I don't believe that to be true for one second. Bill is very hands on with his offense.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-13-2011, 04:29 PM
I don't believe that to be true for one second. Bill is very hands on with his offense.

Not that game, if he was someone dropped the ball. His OL couldn't pass protect and yet they kept dropping back for 5 and 7 steps concept passing plays.

When they went to a quick game they were successful against us moving the ball. And then he'd go back to the game plan of 5 and 7 step drops and Brady kept getting owned. I remember because I was wondering what the hell was the OC thinking.

D-Unit
09-13-2011, 06:18 PM
That's why I want a defensive head coach. That way the defense will have consistency, and also Eli will have more freedom offensively. I think a defensive coach wouldn't micromanage the offense.

If I had to pick a guy, right now I have my eye on Mike Zimmer. 4-3 guy who uses a lot of man coverage. Tough, Parcells disciple, years of experience.

It's impossible to say who you want though when all of us don't know 90% of the coaches out there on the market.
Mike Zimmer is a good coach. I have nothing but good things to say about him. Defensive success also seems to follow him. But I wouldn't call him a Parcells disciple. Zimmer is a 4-3 guy who was forced to learn the 3-4 under Parcells. It's true that he wanted to learn from Parcells and turned down the opportunity to be the HC at Nebraska, but there came a point where Parcells I don't think they saw eye to eye...BP needed a 3-4 DC instead of one "learning on the job". As soon as Zim left Dallas he went back to the 4-3.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-13-2011, 06:43 PM
Props to Dan on BBI for posting this..


Well that could not be good if Tuck and Nicks couldn't go.


Clayton: Nicks "in doubt" for Monday
DanMetroMan : 7:41 pm
ESPN's John Clayton confirms that Hakeem Nicks' status is "in doubt" for Week 2.
Clayton is confirming a New York Daily News report that Nicks is "at best, uncertain" for Monday night's game against the Rams. "The knee is day to day but there is definite concern about this week," says Clayton. We're guessing that Domenik Hixon would start opposite Mario Manningham if Nicks can't go. Hixon could shape up as a nice "handcuff" waiver addition with St. Louis possibly missing both starting corners.
Source: Evan Silva on Twitter Sep 13 - 6:35 PM

Giantsfan1080
09-13-2011, 07:27 PM
Clayton is wrong on this I believe.

Also, if it's true that Coefield knew what play was coming on that Pick 6 because we haven't changed our audibles then heads need to roll. That's just inexcusable.

Rosebud
09-13-2011, 11:46 PM
Speaking of blitzing LBs, I was disappointed in Kiwi. He had plenty of chances at the qb, he was blitzing very often out of the SAM spot, but he never got there. He got a couple of hurries, but nothing to really stand out.

I was really excited for him before the move to LB, then you got me excited about the potential there and now I'm still excited. He's still a more natural lineman than linebacker so playing the position for realzies is going to take him a little bit to adjust. That's what I think is a big part of why he let Tolly get the start at DE, because he understood how getting snaps at DE again would throw him off playing with his hand up. This joins the rest of our issues in the too soon to know pile and is something I'll worry about if the Eagles blow us out embarassingly leaving us 0-3.

Giantsfan1080
09-14-2011, 11:08 AM
Tuck is limited at practice today. Nicks and Osi are a no go.

Jughead10
09-14-2011, 11:09 AM
Tuck is limited at practice today. Nicks and Osi are a no go.

Was Tuck even limited towards the end of last week?

Giantsfan1080
09-14-2011, 11:10 AM
Was Tuck even limited towards the end of last week?

I believe he practiced Friday on a limited basis.

Jughead10
09-14-2011, 11:16 AM
I believe he practiced Friday on a limited basis.

At least we have an extra day.

Giantsfan1080
09-14-2011, 11:24 AM
Yeah I fully expect him to be out there this Monday. Osi should be back against the Eagles.

Jughead10
09-14-2011, 11:38 AM
Yeah I fully expect him to be out there this Monday. Osi should be back against the Eagles.

That would be sexy. Even on the most limited basis. If only really needs to play 15-20 plays.

Giantsfan1080
09-14-2011, 11:40 AM
That would be sexy. Even on the most limited basis. If only really needs to play 15-20 plays.

Osi should get 15-20 plays?

Jughead10
09-14-2011, 11:43 AM
Osi should get 15-20 plays?

If that. I really wouldn't want to rush him back into it before he is ready. We only really need him on pure passing down and distance. That is if Tuck and JPP are healthy.

Giantsfan1080
09-14-2011, 11:49 AM
If that. I really wouldn't want to rush him back into it before he is ready. We only really need him on pure passing down and distance. That is if Tuck and JPP are healthy.

Oh I agree. I just wasn't sure who you were referring to. He can set the edge on Vick scrambles as well.

Forenci
09-14-2011, 12:33 PM
JPP is just so sexy. He already looks studly coming off the edge in his second year. I can only imagine after he refines his technique and adds some more moves to his repertoire how deadly he could be.

Did anyone notice how he played the run? I was focused more on Linval on running plays and didn't see how JPP handled the run.

Giantsfan1080
09-14-2011, 12:43 PM
He was fine against the run. Prince is out of his walking boot.

Forenci
09-14-2011, 01:19 PM
He was fine against the run. Prince is out of his walking boot.

Woohoo! I'm really excited to see him play. I loved him as a player on the field, but off the field I love the guy too. Scott and Shane talked to him on their podcast a while back and he just sounds like a super intelligent guy. I'm excited to see him get on the field in the near future.

scottyboy
09-14-2011, 05:09 PM
we signed brandon stokley... i dont know how I feel about this

BigBlueNorwegian
09-14-2011, 06:27 PM
we signed brandon stokley... i dont know how I feel about this

I think it's positive. Stokley's a veteran reciever that can handle the slot duties and I think(hope) he can use his experience to be a reliable third down target for Eli.

But it probably means that the front office didn't believe that Hixon/cruz can handle those duties anymore, so that is essentially like saying they were wrong. Something we suspected/knew all along. so shame on them for trying to fix it now, and not have the foresight to resign Smith or sign Cotchery or any other slot WR in august.

Forenci
09-14-2011, 10:59 PM
we signed brandon stokley... i dont know how I feel about this

He's too white for my liking.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-15-2011, 10:41 AM
I like it. A solid veteran WR who probably can play Z but will stick to Y. So basically have him learn only the inside WR routes, and master that in this system. If he understands it then he can perhaps teach the younger guys.

Iamcanadian
09-15-2011, 10:58 AM
[QUOTE=bigbluedefense;2676183]I was crushed when Fox didn't take the year off and signed with Denver. I was really hoping he'd come back home and be our next HC.

I don't want Jeff Fischer either. Although I do like Fischer's style. He's just too average of a coach though.

I think he was average because his owner never supported the team financially where he could go out after FA's to fill in around his needs.
He's be a 1st class HC with the Giants.

Rosebud
09-15-2011, 03:34 PM
I think he was average because his owner never supported the team financially where he could go out after FA's to fill in around his needs.
He's be a 1st class HC with the Giants.

I don't buy that, Tennessee spent plenty of money at the start of the century, in fact they were one of the teams who got themselves in such bad cap hell that they had to cut some starters before one season just to get under the cap.

PS Please learn how to quote people without cutting off the [/QUOTE], thanks.

OSUGiants17
09-15-2011, 03:44 PM
Anyone else going the game Monday night? Place better be rocking for the home opener. The last few times I've been to a Giant's game it took signs on the jumbo screen and Tuck waving his arms up and down to get the crowd to make any noise, which is sad.

Giantsfan1080
09-15-2011, 04:41 PM
I'll be there. Crowd is usually better for late night games because most of the older Giants fans don't go. There is definitely a schism between younger and older fans.

Giantsfan1080
09-15-2011, 05:08 PM
Fewell said we'll probably run about 50/50 zone/man this year. Should I just get ready for the heartbreak now?

NY+Giants=NYG
09-15-2011, 05:28 PM
Fewell said we'll probably run about 50/50 zone/man this year. Should I just get ready for the heartbreak now?

yes! If we can't do both well, then yes, but buy chocolate so you will feel better.

bigbluedefense
09-16-2011, 07:21 AM
The signing of Brandon Stokely is a clear admission by upper management that they screwed up this slot WR situation. What they should have done was sign Cotchery when they had the chance, but instead, we're stuck in a real tough situation.

Stokely can't really provide anything for us right away. It's not an easy system to pick up. Even Gilbride doesn't endorse the move. He keeps talking about how we miss Steve Smith.

We just have to hope and pray that our run game picks up and carries us until Barden can come back, then hope and pray that Barden can stay healthy and is in fact the 3rd WR we've been looking for.

If not, then the season is basically over. Bc you can't pull a slot WR out of your ass. Especially when the slot is hands down the most important position in the run n shoot offense.

scottyboy
09-16-2011, 07:42 AM
i actually really like Stokley. A scrappy white slot guy is just what we needed.
and srsly Fewell, 50/50? are you drunk?

Giantsfan1080
09-16-2011, 09:02 AM
i actually really like Stokley. A scrappy white slot guy is just what we needed.
and srsly Fewell, 50/50? are you drunk?

He said most of the TD's we gave up last week were on man. I'd venture to say out all the big plays we gave up 80% of them were from the zone defense. It basically sounds like Fewell is adamant about his system working and he won't recognize that Webster and Ross are mostly better in man coverage.

scottyboy
09-16-2011, 09:07 AM
fewell is a fool then
see what I did there?

also, if he's still on the team by week 7, maybe I'll get a Stokley jersey

Giantsfan1080
09-16-2011, 09:46 AM
fewell is a fool then
see what I did there?

also, if he's still on the team by week 7, maybe I'll get a Stokley jersey

Why would you waste your money on a guy who will be here for maybe a year at most?

NY+Giants=NYG
09-16-2011, 11:15 AM
Scottyboy,

Why on earth would you spend all that money on a Stokley jersey? He has been on 5 teams already, and not sure how long he will be on our team.

DMWSackMachine
09-16-2011, 01:12 PM
So is JPP ready to bust out? Saw him a little during the game and he looked like a real physical presence. My understanding was he would probably be a little bit of a project and that it would take a lot of refining before he would be able to use his impressive tools to dominate consistently.

What's going to happen when both Osi and Tuck get back? Will he still start? I can't imagine your organization would want to invest any more in Osi when things have turned as sour as they've been. Is it JPP's time to shine? I'm scanning the WW for a stud DL on my fantasy team and its hard to ignore his line from last week.

Rosebud
09-16-2011, 01:16 PM
So is JPP ready to bust out? Saw him a little during the game and he looked like a real physical presence. My understanding was he would probably be a little bit of a project and that it would take a lot of refining before he would be able to use his impressive tools to dominate consistently.

What's going to happen when both Osi and Tuck get back? Will he still start? I can't imagine your organization would want to invest any more in Osi when things have turned as sour as they've been. Is it JPP's time to shine? I'm scanning the WW for a stud DL on my fantasy team and its hard to ignore his line from last week.

Yeah, JPP's done nothing but impress with his ability to impact the game despite his rawness since he was drafted. Kid's a beast and I think he'll keep starting opposite Tuck at least for the first few weeks Osi's back.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-16-2011, 02:28 PM
http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/A-Football-Life-Belichick-on-Giants/05515b79-d9f6-4602-83ce-c34502a282e0


Bill B video about being with the Giants. Great stuff!

NY+Giants=NYG
09-16-2011, 02:44 PM
So is JPP ready to bust out? Saw him a little during the game and he looked like a real physical presence. My understanding was he would probably be a little bit of a project and that it would take a lot of refining before he would be able to use his impressive tools to dominate consistently.

What's going to happen when both Osi and Tuck get back? Will he still start? I can't imagine your organization would want to invest any more in Osi when things have turned as sour as they've been. Is it JPP's time to shine? I'm scanning the WW for a stud DL on my fantasy team and its hard to ignore his line from last week.

Yeah 2 sacks and FF in the first game of the season.. So very happy with that production. I think all giants fans are very interested in this pick AND with his potential. If all goes well he can be something special.

He was a raw player but people tend to forget if a raw DE is going to have a chance to learn and grow our team is the best. You have Tuck, Osi, Kiwi to learn from. Tuck and Osi learned from Strahan. So when it comes to DE and spotting talent, I think our franchise should be # 1 on that list.

Let's put it this way, when we draft a DE, other teams should worry because we tend to see talent for that position, I guess clearly. Our guys are productive and pro bowlers.

We will rotate the guys when they come back and in 3rd down situations the plan was 4 aces package..

Osi-Tuck-Kiwi-JPP or Osi-Canty-Tuck-JPP

Either way, there will be a lot of sick talent rushing and that's without the blitz being factored in. This is just 4 DL players coming your way.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-16-2011, 03:08 PM
http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/A-Football-Life-Belichick-on-Giants/05515b79-d9f6-4602-83ce-c34502a282e0


Bill B video about being with the Giants. Great stuff!

Man, he's on the verge of crying multiple times in that video. Great stuff. It would be a dream scenario to have him as our HC at some point.

scottyboy
09-16-2011, 03:27 PM
I was kidding. kinda. It would be so awesome to have a giants stokley jersey. but only if i like, could get one for $5 haha.

Jughead10
09-16-2011, 04:11 PM
I was kidding. kinda. It would be so awesome to have a giants stokley jersey. but only if i like, could get one for $5 haha.

Convert your old Shockey jersey into one. Only a few letter changes.

Giantsfan1080
09-16-2011, 04:12 PM
I'm so pissed I don't get NFL Network and I can't watch the Belichick documentary.

Giantsfan1080
09-16-2011, 04:22 PM
I also love how Bill is rocking the Rutgers sweatshirt.

Jughead10
09-16-2011, 04:24 PM
I'm so pissed I don't get NFL Network and I can't watch the Belichick documentary.

When is it on?

Giantsfan1080
09-16-2011, 04:26 PM
When is it on?

It was on last night. It was the highest rated non football game ever on the network.

Jughead10
09-16-2011, 04:37 PM
It was on last night. It was the highest rated non football game ever on the network.

I'll have to DVR. I'm sure they will replay it a ton.

Giantsfan1080
09-16-2011, 04:43 PM
I'll have to DVR. I'm sure they will replay it a ton.

That doesn't help me one bit.

I wonder if he would really come back here.

Forenci
09-16-2011, 06:13 PM
Am I the only Giants fan who hates Bill B. then? I know he was great with us, but damn if he isn't the most annoying, douchiest (and not to mention a cheater) coach in the league. Can't stand him even the slightest.

Giantsfan1080
09-16-2011, 06:36 PM
Watch that video that NYG posted. Not one hint of douchyness.

Forenci
09-16-2011, 06:57 PM
Meh, actions speak louder than words and his tenure with the Patriots has been riddled with douchiness.

Giantsfan1080
09-16-2011, 07:01 PM
Well I disagree. He's a NFL Football coach so being a douche is probably a good thing. I think the cheating thing was also way overblown.

Jughead10
09-17-2011, 11:13 AM
It's only cheating if you get caught. It's kind of like baseball. Are only the people who got caught doing steroids, the only ones who did it? Of course not. I feel like Bill isn't the only one who did that stuff.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2011, 11:39 AM
Just reading the BBI reactions to drafting JPP. Now that's a funny read. I can't believe how many people hated the pick, including myself. lol. Some of the reactions were funny though!

Forenci
09-17-2011, 02:06 PM
It's only cheating if you get caught. It's kind of like baseball. Are only the people who got caught doing steroids, the only ones who did it? Of course not. I feel like Bill isn't the only one who did that stuff.

I'm sure you're right, but I've never really believed in the attitude of, "Well everyone else is doing it so that makes it fine," especially when not everyone has been proven to do it.

JBCX
09-18-2011, 08:32 AM
Just reading the BBI reactions to drafting JPP. Now that's a funny read. I can't believe how many people hated the pick, including myself. lol. Some of the reactions were funny though!

As someone who was *extremely* down on JPP before the 2010 draft, what I don't understand about his emergence as a quality NFL player is:

a.) He looked really bad playing for USF. In the videos I watched, he was overrunning plays, being knocked to the ground with easy, and looking generally like nothing more than a bull in a china shop. I didn't even see him apply much pressure. Most of his "plays" involved him batting down balls with his long arms.

b.) He was absolutely terrible at the combine drills. Typically, the elite pass rushers, throughout recent NFL history, have excelled at either the Vertical Jump/Broad Jump or the Short Shuttle. JPP was terrible at every one of these drills. The only drill he did well was the 40 yard dash.

JPP bucked all of the recent trends regarding pass rushers in combine drills and also bucked the trend of one-year-wonders with poor game tape struggling in the NFL.

BaLLiN
09-18-2011, 08:25 PM
you know... we did produce three elite DE's during the last 15 years...

1.Strahan
2. Osi
3. Tuck

Coaching really does work

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2011, 11:13 AM
How's everyone feeling about the game tonight?

BigBlueNorwegian
09-19-2011, 11:30 AM
How's everyone feeling about the game tonight?

Here's my predictions for the next two weeks:

I'm thinking a sloppy 7 point win tonight, where we can still point out multiple flaws in the playcalling, coverages, and individual player performances. But the players get overconfident after this victory and goes into Philly against a Vick-less Eagles looking for an easy win. They go on to lose by ten points to a Mike Kafka-led Eagles.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2011, 11:33 AM
Here's my predictions for the next two weeks:

I'm thinking a sloppy 7 point win tonight, where we can still point out multiple flaws in the playcalling, coverages, and individual player performances. But the players get overconfident after this victory and goes into Philly against a Vick-less Eagles looking for an easy win. They go on to lose by ten points to a Mike Kafka-led Eagles.

That does sound very Giants like.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-19-2011, 11:39 AM
That does sound very Giants like.

Yes. Sad, but true.

scottyboy
09-19-2011, 12:27 PM
if we win and get over confident about beating the Rams, and aren't ready mentally for the Eagles, Vick or not, I'm going to go insane

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2011, 12:49 PM
I didn't realize this until now but it's the first Giants home MNF game during the Coughlin era. We've been on the road for all the others.

Jughead10
09-19-2011, 12:53 PM
I didn't realize this until now but it's the first Giants home MNF game during the Coughlin era. We've been on the road for all the others.

Well stadium construction was going on for a good portion of that. And we couldn't play on MNF during that time because of the off site parking situation. Wasn't the Hurricane Katrina game on a Monday night?

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2011, 01:08 PM
Well stadium construction was going on for a good portion of that. And we couldn't play on MNF during that time because of the off site parking situation. Wasn't the Hurricane Katrina game on a Monday night?

Yeah but it's still been 7 years. Yes that game was a Monday night but don't forget that was a N.O. "home" game.

bigbluedefense
09-19-2011, 01:59 PM
Let's take care of business first. I have no confidence at all in the passing game right now, so let's see what happens.

I think we win ugly tonight, leaving me just as unconfident as I was after the Redskins game.

Giantsfan1080
09-19-2011, 02:10 PM
Spags is going to throw some good stuff at Eli but in the end our talent is better than the Rams. I don't care if we win ugly.

Rosebud
09-19-2011, 02:17 PM
I just want to see the OL get better, the passing game show some signs of life beyond Eli-to-Nicks and the defense to attack Bradford since their WR corps might be as injured as our secondary.

OSUGiants17
09-19-2011, 03:55 PM
Here's my predictions for the next two weeks:

I'm thinking a sloppy 7 point win tonight, where we can still point out multiple flaws in the playcalling, coverages, and individual player performances. But the players get overconfident after this victory and goes into Philly against a Vick-less Eagles looking for an easy win. They go on to lose by ten points to a Mike Kafka-led Eagles.

I hate you for telling me the truth :(

BigBlueNorwegian
09-19-2011, 05:17 PM
I hate you for telling me the truth :(

LOL, sorry! Just better to be prepared for it, and not get our hopes up. The last two years I've gotten my hopes up multiple times regarding the Giants. It ended in disaster every time. But I guess it has to turn around sooner or later, right?

BTW, I hate night games. They start at 0230 local time for me, and usually I get around 2-3 hours of sleep when the Giants play SNF or MNF. So they better not lose this game!

OSUGiants17
09-19-2011, 11:53 PM
Great ****** game tonight fellas, the stadium was electric and behind the team the whole time! A few shaky spots and the secondary needs work, but Nicks, Hixon and Mannigham all had beautiful grabs! Got some new guy sitting in my section at the stadium who gave out free waters whenever, 1 free hat every Giants first down, and candy every TD lol gonna be nice to have him sit behind me all year. Great ****** bday present from the giants, tonights game was great!

Jughead10
09-20-2011, 07:23 AM
Cautiously optimistic after this game. We still need a lot of help. Offense improved as the game went on, especially in the two minute drill at the end of the first half. Why don't we let Eli just do everything? Someone please kill Gilbride.

Scary that we need Prince back and are counting on him for a lot as a rookie.

Tynes sucks. He still can't put a ball in the end zone.

And let's hope Manningham is more of a neck thing than the concussion first reported. Best ball Eli threw all night and he got hurt bobbling it.

bigbluedefense
09-20-2011, 09:15 AM
Ugly win. The only positives I can take from it were:

1. Passing game seemed to improve over the course of the game. It seems like when we give Eli more freedom to tinker with the offense it just flows sooooo much better. Plus hopefully some of the chemistry between Eli and Cruz towards the end of the game carries over.

2. Run blocking got better over the course of the game. Run blocking always starts out bad in the beginning of the season. It takes a good 6 games for it to gel. Give this time, it will get better.

3. Pass rush was good. It really got a lot better later in the game as our depth seemed to overmatch their tired oline in the 2nd half.


Things I didn't like:

1. Pass game. It still sucks. And Eli has been inaccurate this season. Let's call it like we see it. He's missed some throws. Drops kill us too. Same old story with that. Plus miscommunications. Again, same old story.

2. Coverage is mediocre. Webster seems to have dropped off a little. Ross is what he is at this point. He's not a very good player. Not terrible, but not very good either. We really need Prince back. Grant can't play coverage. They were picking on the Ross/Grant side of the field all game. Even with help up top with Grant, we couldn't seal the top of the offense bc Ross would get beat and Grant would be late to the ball. Rolle is not a very good nickel against smaller WRs, which kind of defeats the purpose since those types seem to be most slot WRs nowadays.

Our man coverage is sooo much better than our zone. If you go back and watch the game again, we were significantly better when we played man and blitzed opposed to his zone coverages. Get with the program Fewell.

And our linebackers can't cover. Williams came in and saw some quality snaps for his speed. Boley is good but when we are in our base 43 with Kiwi and Jones out there, we had no intermediate coverage from our linebackers. None. That's why they went no huddle, to keep us in our base 43 and expose our linebackers in coverage. Fewell needs to ditch the Kiwi experiment and just have him rotate in as a pass rusher. We need coverage linebackers on the field at all times.

We seem to be a streaky team on both sides of the ball. When we're feeling it on offense, we're like a machine. When we're not, we can't do a damn thing. On defense, when we're feeling it, the pass rush seems to be getting there every play and we're playing fast and aggressive. When we're not, we seem to be sitting ducks.

We live and die with our pass rush really. If our front 4 isn't dominating, our defense is very mediocre. Our back 7 needs more speed. Especially the LB core.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-20-2011, 09:15 AM
Cautiously optimistic after this game. We still need a lot of help. Offense improved as the game went on, especially in the two minute drill at the end of the first half. Why don't we let Eli just do everything? Someone please kill Gilbride.

Scary that we need Prince back and are counting on him for a lot as a rookie.

Tynes sucks. He still can't put a ball in the end zone.

And let's hope Manningham is more of a neck thing than the concussion first reported. Best ball Eli threw all night and he got hurt bobbling it.


I'm not sure guys, that was an ugly, ugly win. I'll take it, of course, but we still do not look like a good team at all. Our best hope is that we can grind out five or six wins the first eight weeks of our season, and progress a lot over the course of those games.

Eli at least did play much better after a horrible start to the game. But the defense still plays that off coverage zone, it kills me to see them give away 15-25 yd completions without even trying to cover the intermediate parts of the field. Same thing happened against the Redskins.

In regards to the Manningham injury,he says it was a neck injury, but the Giants says he suffered a concussion because he failed the baseline concussion test. But everyone that knows Manningham knows he would probably fail to realize what day it is, what the score is and how many fingers the trainer is holding up even when fully healthy, lol!

Hopefully both Hixon and Manningham are ready to go against the "dream team" next Sunday.

Rosebud
09-20-2011, 09:21 AM
I guess seeing Eli go 16 for his last 18 attempts only made me happy.

scottyboy
09-20-2011, 10:14 AM
I guess seeing Eli go 16 for his last 18 attempts only made me happy.

I'm with you. People were giving Eli **** for early in the game and even last week but he hasn't looked bad at all. I mean, come on. At one point our only healthy WR's were Nicks, Thomas, Stokley and Cruz. And Ballard. and Pascoe. like, ew. If Eli throws for 3000 yards, 25 TDs and 20 INTs I'll consider it a huge success for him. He just has no weapons...well at least none he's got chemistry with really

and we really, really need a freaking TE. like, badly

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2011, 11:22 AM
I'm very happy with the win all things considered. We need to fix the secondary issues more so than anything because that's what's killing us. It seems to be a lot of communication issues as to who should cover what zone on certain plays. I don't know why Fewell is so stubborn and has to go 50/50 man/zone.

I think the offense will be fine. Eli mad the one bad decision on the INT because he didn't pick up the S pre-snap. He did well with the crappy WR corps we now have and will continue to adjust with them. Hopefully Manningham and Hixon aren't hurt to bad because we can't afford to lose either of them.

Rosebud
09-20-2011, 11:51 AM
Yeah, the secondary needs to tighten up but they gave me cause for excitement with the way the stepped up in the redzone and made plays like that Fumble return happen. The coverage will tighten up if we can avoid any further injuries as guys get comfortable in their new roles, plus as the pass rush improves with Tuck coming back, Osi eventually coming back, JPP continuing to progress and Kiwi, the secondary's job will get easier and easier.

Jughead10
09-20-2011, 11:56 AM
Having Osi back will help, even if he is limited to only a quarter of the plays these next few games. Even though Tuck had 1.5 sacks last night he isn't the pure pass rusher Osi is. Different players. JPP is shaping up to be a beast but I noticed last night the no huddle really affected him. Not his conditioning or stamina, but just being lined up in time. He was constantly looking for someone to tell him where to be.

bigbluedefense
09-20-2011, 12:29 PM
Zone defense requires a lot of chemistry and unspoken communication. You have to know what your teammates around you are thinking. That comes with practice and hopefully some lengthy conversations on the sidelines. Getting to know your teammates and how they cover is so key with zone. That's why injuries to the secondary hurts us more when we run zone bc the chemistry and communication just isn't there.

Don't forget, we weren't horrible in zone last year. Bc we stayed healthy and we had chemistry back there. This year, with a shortened camp, injuries, and just a lack of talent due to those injuries, our zone coverage has suffered quite a bit.

Even at full strength though, we're a better man coverage team. You gotta remember, these guys are athletes. They're not the brightest bulbs out there. Simplifying the coverages makes them play faster, and playing fast is what defense is all about.

Man coverage is simple. Cover that guy. Chase him around. It's easy for an athlete to figure out. That's why I prefer man coverage. Let an athlete be an athlete and take the thinking out of it for him. You can add complexity to trick offenses through your blitz packages. That's how Rex designs his defenses. That's why he's such a good coordinator. Simple for the players, complicated for the offense. That's the key.

You also need smarter players to run zone. Any ****** can run man coverage. Go chase that guy. Not complicated.

bigbluedefense
09-20-2011, 12:32 PM
Having Osi back definitely helps our pass rush.

I've been a little disappointed in Kiwi's pass rush thus far. He's not beating his man enough. Several times he was matched up against a TE or a Back on a blitz pickup and he lost those battles.

He's a DE. He's supposed to win that battle every time. If Fewell cooks up a blitz package where a HB is blocking Kiwi, Kiwi needs to win that battle and get to the QB.

But he hasn't done it consistently yet.

Wootylicous
09-20-2011, 12:35 PM
Michael Boley throwing the football at this one guy had me laughing for a while what was that ?

bigbluedefense
09-20-2011, 12:36 PM
I laughed too. It's all over youtube, I had a feeling someone would post it haha.

I'm sure someone made a gif out of it too.

Forenci
09-20-2011, 01:06 PM
I didn't get to see the game last night! :(

Grad school is quite a bit of work, haha. I was pretty upset I didn't get to watch it. Fortunately you guys always give a great analysis of the game.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-20-2011, 01:27 PM
Let's take care of business first. I have no confidence at all in the passing game right now, so let's see what happens.

I think we win ugly tonight, leaving me just as unconfident as I was after the Redskins game.



or the run game. This offense is starting to bother me even more. I am ready for a new system now. It's tiring. I expect us to have a slow start every time and I expect one int in the stat column, if it is Eli's fault or not. It's going to happen. It's an every game thing.

I am just not liking this offense at all. More and more I see it, and I see other systems and people play, I hate it!

Newton throwing for 400 plus yards in two games? Has Eli ever threw for 400 plus yards? If Eli throws for 2 TDs I am very happy. 3 TDs and I am doing backflips.

200 yds for a franchise qb is a joke! This system needs a change. 200 yards? What is this?

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2011, 01:27 PM
This is to funny.

Manningham tweeted he didn't have a concussion, he just answered their questions wrong.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2011, 01:30 PM
or the run game. This offense is starting to bother me even more. I am ready for a new system now. It's tiring. I expect us to have a slow start every time and I expect one int in the stat column, if it is Eli's fault or not. It's going to happen. It's an every game thing.

I am just not liking this offense at all. More and more I see it, and I see other systems and people play, I hate it!

Newton throwing for 400 plus yards in two games? Has Eli ever threw for 400 plus yards? If Eli throws for 2 TDs I am very happy. 3 TDs and I am doing backflips.

200 yds for a franchise qb is a joke! This system needs a change. 200 yards? What is this?

He's never thrown for 400 yards in a game.

Jughead10
09-20-2011, 01:30 PM
What an idiot. I can say it a million times but it's still right. He's so dumb.

Although that's the point of the baseline testing. They test everyone at a normal state to see what they're like. So if they thought he might have a concussion he must have been even dumber than normal.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2011, 01:31 PM
What an idiot. I can say it a million times but it's still right. He's so dumb.

Although that's the point of the baseline testing. They test everyone at a normal state to see what they're like. So if they thought he might have a concussion he must have been even dumber than normal.

When I read that I thought it was a joke at first. Poor Mario. I wonder what they asked him.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-20-2011, 01:38 PM
As someone who was *extremely* down on JPP before the 2010 draft, what I don't understand about his emergence as a quality NFL player is:

a.) He looked really bad playing for USF. In the videos I watched, he was overrunning plays, being knocked to the ground with easy, and looking generally like nothing more than a bull in a china shop. I didn't even see him apply much pressure. Most of his "plays" involved him batting down balls with his long arms.

b.) He was absolutely terrible at the combine drills. Typically, the elite pass rushers, throughout recent NFL history, have excelled at either the Vertical Jump/Broad Jump or the Short Shuttle. JPP was terrible at every one of these drills. The only drill he did well was the 40 yard dash.

JPP bucked all of the recent trends regarding pass rushers in combine drills and also bucked the trend of one-year-wonders with poor game tape struggling in the NFL.



He learned from Osi and Tuck and Perhaps Kiwi. They learned from Strahan. So now JPP has someone to follow. When it comes to drafting DEs, I learned not to question the talent. The position of the player we pick maybe, but not the player. We have a knack for DEs. The rest of the NFL and fan bases should follow suit if the want to analyze our DE picks in the future.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-20-2011, 01:40 PM
He's never thrown for 400 yards in a game.

That alone rings a bell to this system.. Since 2004, and guy, not once has thrown for 400 yards, yet a rookie comes in and does it back to back games. Other Qbs throw over 300 yards like it's no big deal. Fitzpatrick has 7 TDS already! Guy is lighting it up thus far. Get me a new system. I am tired of this nonsense.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2011, 01:43 PM
I hate Colin Cowherd but his rant on Eli was spot on. For those who haven't seen it.

Last night they booed Eli Manning at one point, and I've supported Eli Manning on this show. I believe he's the better of the two NY quarterbacks.

But it's funny because what's amazing about Eli is he didn't start very well last night - then ended well - and it's amazing that when we look at QBs we never consider what's around them. I mean how good would you be at a bad company?

Here's what you get from Eli Manning. Big arm, big yards, lots of TDs, durable, good in the 2-minute drill. Here's what you don't get: Not a lot of emotion, not much mobility, and a few picks. But they also ask him to throw over 500 times a season. You're gonna have a few picks. 20 picks isn't a ton when you throw 530 times a season.

He's 60-44 as a starter with a Super Bowl ring in a very tough, well-funded NFC East. He's never had an elite Offensive Coordinator, he's always had a conservative Head Coach, and never had an elite WR corps, ever. Here's the two years he had a good WR corps. In 2008 with Plax, Steve Smith, Ward out of the backfield, and Amani Toomer - what a shock 12-4, 21 TDs 10 picks. The next year he lost Plax but he had Steve Smith with over 100 catches, Kevin Boss, Hakeem Nicks - what a shock 27 TDs 14 Picks. And btw he had a very good offensive line.

Now Steve Smith is gone, a rash of injuries, Shaun O'Hara's hurt, Kevin Boss is gone, and WHAT A SHOCK, it's more of a struggle.

Look around the NFL, folks. Blame the GM, quit blaming the QB. I've been saying this every year with Eli.

Look at Green Bay. Look at what Aaron Rodgers has around him. Greg Jennings, one of the best deep threats in the league. Jermichael Finley at TE is uncoverable - you can't cover him. He's a TE/WR hybrid who runs a 4.4. Jordi Nelson, excellent possession receiver. Donald Driver, a reliable veteran. And oh yeah, James Jones can play too.

That's why I say Brady is amazing. Deion Branch is past his prime, two young tight ends, and a bunch of 5 foot 5 small guys that aren't very fast. He doesn't have much around him. He's an anamoly.

So I always laugh at the Eli Manning hate. You know what you get with him. You don't get a ton of mobility, he throws a few picks, but they ask him to throw 550 times. You get durability, you get good in the 2-minute drill, you get a big arm, you get a good kid - he never gets into trouble - and he's a smart guy. Get him some help! That's all that it takes, get him some help!

Wootylicous
09-20-2011, 01:57 PM
http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/BOLEYCAMERAMAN.gif

there lol

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2011, 07:29 PM
Doesn't sound good for Hixon. He'll probably be done for year even though that's just a guess at this point.

D-Unit
09-20-2011, 07:56 PM
Doesn't sound good for Hixon. He'll probably be done for year even though that's just a guess at this point.
Man... it must be tough. I get mad enough when our guys go down for weeks. Even though Hixon isn't a world beater who you weren't relying on a lot, it's still a hit. This isn't his first season ending injury. I wonder how much longer you guys keep him around.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-20-2011, 08:05 PM
Man... it must be tough. I get mad enough when our guys go down for weeks. Even though Hixon isn't a world beater who you weren't relying on a lot, it's still a hit. This isn't his first season ending injury. I wonder how much longer you guys keep him around.

I thought about that too, especially if he gets put on IR..

So our OL needs to gel..

X is hurt

Z has a concussion

Y might be done for the season..

We have issues with health on this team big time. I am starting to hate our offense more and more.

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2011, 08:08 PM
If he's hurt for the year I fully expect yesterday to be his last game as a Giant.

D-Unit
09-20-2011, 08:34 PM
I thought about that too, especially if he gets put on IR..

So our OL needs to gel..

X is hurt

Z has a concussion

Y might be done for the season..

We have issues with health on this team big time. I am starting to hate our offense more and more.
What's the story with your OL?

For us, Jerry simply failed to attack FA and sign some of the prime OGs that were available. I think the plan all along was to cut Davis and Gurode, but they were overconfident in replacing them with inexperienced guys who practice hard (mirage). ...and Kosier just sucks. Moving him to the right side just made him worse.

We resigned Free and drafted Smith, but that's where the fixing of our OL started and ended. An incomplete job and a big oversighted mistake. Now Romo has a punctured lung and Felix has a separated shoulder. Thanks OL... Double thanks, Jerry/Garrett. :/

What were you guys thinking going into the offseason and how well did you think your OL needs were addressed?

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2011, 08:36 PM
The OL will be fine. Baas just needs as many reps as possible so he could fit in with the offense. Beatty's been here long enough to know the system and has looked good in spots. Diehl, Snee, and McKenzie are all professionals and I don't really worry about them. Brewer will probably replace McKenzie in a year or two.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-20-2011, 08:41 PM
What's the story with your OL?

For us, Jerry simply failed to attack FA and sign some of the prime OGs that were available. I think the plan all along was to cut Davis and Gurode, but they were overconfident in replacing them with inexperienced guys who practice hard (mirage). ...and Kosier just sucks. Moving him to the right side just made him worse.

We resigned Free and drafted Smith, but that's where the fixing of our OL started and ended. An incomplete job and a big oversighted mistake. Now Romo has a punctured lung and Felix has a separated shoulder. Thanks OL... Double thanks, Jerry/Garrett. :/

What were you guys thinking going into the offseason and how well did you think your OL needs were addressed?



Center and LG were hurt and then cut.

LT is Beatty who we drafted to take over..

David D who was LG and then LT and now moved back to LG again.

Center is a free agent David Baas

RG - Snee

RT - Kareem M.


We addressed the center position and moved the rest. Otherwise 3/5 are the same, with one bring promoted and another just plain being a new FA signing.

We drafted a guard in Petrus last year and have good depth. We just need the new center and the OL to gel.

D-Unit
09-20-2011, 08:46 PM
Center and LG were hurt and then cut.

LT is Beatty who we drafted to take over..

David D who was LG and then LT and now moved back to LG again.

Center is a free agent David Baas

RG - Snee

RT - Kareem M.


We addressed the center position and moved the rest. Otherwise 3/5 are the same, with one bring promoted and another just plain being a new FA signing.

We drafted a guard in Petrus last year and have good depth. We just need the new center and the OL to gel.
Ah ok. I do remember the Baas signing. I've admired him from afar when he was with the Niners. He's a solid player.

Beatty holding up so far? I remember watching him throughout the draft process (Mayock liked him a lot), and I thought it was a good pick for you, but I've heard mixed reviews on his pro career thus far.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-20-2011, 09:04 PM
Ah ok. I do remember the Baas signing. I've admired him from afar when he was with the Niners. He's a solid player.

Beatty holding up so far? I remember watching him throughout the draft process (Mayock liked him a lot), and I thought it was a good pick for you, but I've heard mixed reviews on his pro career thus far.

Yeah, he is a slid player and good signing, but with no mini camp, or OTA and FA being delayed it's hard to catch up and then start.

Beatty is playing well, better than I thought actually. We have one of the best OL coaches in the league so I think Beatty has developed well. And will continue to get better, but I expect good and the bad at times.

Jughead10
09-20-2011, 09:24 PM
If he's hurt for the year I fully expect yesterday to be his last game as a Giant.

Didn't he come back on the field and play after he was hurt?

Giantsfan1080
09-20-2011, 09:45 PM
Didn't he come back on the field and play after he was hurt?

I believe so but it seems like it's worse than they thought. We'll find out more tomorrow.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2011, 10:44 AM
I called it. Hixon out for the year with a torn ACL.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-21-2011, 10:45 AM
Well.. another one bites the dust! Sad news, and hopefully he can recover, but 2 ACLs is a big thing to come back from.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2011, 10:52 AM
He's done with us. We need someone to step up.

Jughead10
09-21-2011, 10:59 AM
So he has a torn ACL and they let him go out on the field? Our sideline doctor is ancient. Someone needs to put him down.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2011, 11:05 AM
Sometimes you can only tell through MRI. If Hixon didn't feel that much pain then I don't see the problem. Heck he thought it was a calf injury.

Rosebud
09-21-2011, 11:26 AM
Legitimately I think most of our receiving corps might be ********. Mario answered the questions wrong, Hixon thinks his calf is part of his knee, everybody other than Nicks is always in the wrong place, Barden thinks football players are paid to ride a bike, it's really sad that we don't have Steve Smith to raise hte collective IQ barely above functionally ********.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2011, 11:34 AM
Actually Steve Smith pulled the same thing last year against the Vikings. He thought it was a calf injury also even though it was his knee.

bigbluedefense
09-21-2011, 11:52 AM
You know what's sad?

I want to be upset, but it doesn't even bother me anymore. The way this season is playing out, half the team is going to land on IR by the end of the season anyway.

And while Nicks is a beast, I'm going to disagree with the notion that he's always in the right spot. That's actually not true. Nicks runs a wrong route every now and then as well.

For example, on a deep throw on Monday, Eli threw the fade and Nicks went post, and it looked like a wildly inaccurate ball to the untrained eye. But it was actually a sight error on Nicks' part. Wouldve been on the money if he ran to the right spot.

It was man with a safety up top. Eli read it right, the safety stayed home in the middle and Nicks got by his man on the release. Running the post made him run right into the safety. If he ran the fade like he was supposed to, it's 30-35 yards.

So the casual fan sees Eli throw an "inaccurate ball into double coverage". The truth is he did everything he was supposed to do but the WR made a mistake.

I hate this system. It's too complex for the average athlete. You need 11 coaches on the field to pull it off.

bigbluedefense
09-21-2011, 11:55 AM
And can Antrelle Rolle ****?

I'm tired of this dumbass constantly running his mouth. We're in no position to talk. Cover your guy, stop giving the other team bulletin board material, and **** you dumb ****.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2011, 11:56 AM
And can Antrelle Rolle ****?

I'm tired of this dumbass constantly running his mouth. We're in no position to talk. Cover your guy, stop giving the other team bulletin board material, and **** you dumb ****.

I agree with everything you just said but they did do a good job on Jackson last year. Maybe this **** will get the secondary pumped or something.

bigbluedefense
09-21-2011, 12:00 PM
I agree with everything you just said but they did do a good job on Jackson last year. Maybe this **** will get the secondary pumped or something.

Maclin is going to insert his ____ into Aaron Ross all game long.

Webster can handle Jackson. Webster has been shutting him down when we leave Web in press man vs Jackson. He only hurts us when we don't play man. *sigh*

And Steve Smith is going to hurt us in the slot too. Don't think for a second that he didn't circle this game on his calendar.

Oh and Lady Gaga is pretty good too. Our hope is that we can run the ball to keep them off the field, and that our dline destroys their oline and Vick still can't read a blitz to save his life.

If those 3 things (plus no turnovers of our own) happen, we have a chance.

Who am I kidding? The biannual Asante Samuel interception bonanza of Eli Manning is going to be right on cue.

Jughead10
09-21-2011, 12:04 PM
Who am I kidding? The biannual Asante Samuel interception bonanza of Eli Manning is going to be right on cue.

Eli got him when it counted.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2011, 12:06 PM
I actually think we have a good shot to take this game. I'd feel better offensively if we had a real TE though.

bigbluedefense
09-21-2011, 12:11 PM
Eli got him when it counted.

Yes he did, and I'm forever grateful for it. But ever since that SB Asante has owned Eli. That's a fact.

bigbluedefense
09-21-2011, 12:11 PM
I actually think we have a good shot to take this game. I'd feel better offensively if we had a real TE though.

To beat the Eagles, you gotta have a good run game, and a good TE.

They can't stop the run and they can't cover the TE. We have the run game, but no TE.

Giantsfan1080
09-21-2011, 12:16 PM
To beat the Eagles, you gotta have a good run game, and a good TE.

They can't stop the run and they can't cover the TE. We have the run game, but no TE.

Run it 45 times.

BigBlueNorwegian
09-21-2011, 12:25 PM
I called it. Hixon out for the year with a torn ACL.

This is starting to get ******* annoying. This season is cursed. I'm seriously considering rooting for a piss poor record, a new coaching staff, training staff, you name it. We always have countless season ending injuries. Somethings gotta give, there has to be a training staff problem.

And totally agree with you about the Ph.D offense. It has to go. But Gilbride will never change it, so we have to convert to an offense like the one Green bay has or something like that. Eli would probably tear the whole NFL a new asshole with nicks, Manningham and a good TE in a normal offensive scheme.

well, at least there's only 217 days until the 2012 NFL draft.

bigbluedefense
09-21-2011, 12:44 PM
Run it 45 times.

You know we won't.

Should we? Of course. Will we? I'd bet the farm we won't.

Rosebud
09-21-2011, 01:13 PM
I just can't help but see my hopes rise for this game. Bradford racked up yards on us last game but we came through in the redzone and made big plays to keep their impact on the scoreboard limited. That the type of thing the D can rally around and if the secondary doesn't suffer any more injuries they'll get better with the whole giving-up-yards-like-a-hooker-on-christmas thing. If we are successful running the ball we might get lucky on offense and not have any miscommunications resulting in easy turnovers for the iggles.

If all of that happens I think we'll win...

scottyboy
09-21-2011, 01:38 PM
Jake ballard coming out party?
I'm really just at loss for words now. I know injuries are part of the game bit we've been decimated of late

NY+Giants=NYG
09-21-2011, 01:47 PM
Sometimes you can only tell through MRI. If Hixon didn't feel that much pain then I don't see the problem. Heck he thought it was a calf injury.

Exactly, if the patient is running around on the sideline and on the bike, and not dying in pain, then you would never know. The fact that they ordered the MRI and everything was a smart move, and it paid off because they saw the tear.


In other reports, Manningham tweaked his ACL in his cranium. He will be ok though. You just have to phrases everything as a true/false question.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-21-2011, 01:48 PM
You know we won't.

Should we? Of course. Will we? I'd bet the farm we won't.

Well in order for you to do that, you need to convert 3rd downs. That means more downs to run. And we have issues with that, so don't expect much. Plus if they eat up the zone, and score at a big time pace, then we won't stick to the run. We can't.. We would be in shoot out mode.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 08:29 AM
Any word on whether Beckum can suit up this week? I know he's a bum and all, but I'll take what I can get at this point.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 08:31 AM
Well in order for you to do that, you need to convert 3rd downs. That means more downs to run. And we have issues with that, so don't expect much. Plus if they eat up the zone, and score at a big time pace, then we won't stick to the run. We can't.. We would be in shoot out mode.

Yeah I understand that. Eli is also a rhythm passer. I'd like us to start out the game with some simple throws just to get him going, but I know we like going vertical right away to "catch them off guard on PA pass"

And can we be any less original on our first play? Every single first play of every game is play action pass out of the iform. I think if you were to go back and chart how often we did that on the first play for the past 4 years, I think you can probably say it's been done 80% of the time.

Does anyone even fall for it anymore?

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 09:29 AM
Any word on whether Beckum can suit up this week? I know he's a bum and all, but I'll take what I can get at this point.

He had a limited practice yesterday even though he was supposed to go at it full speed.

Jughead10
09-22-2011, 09:30 AM
What was the final word on Manningham? Concussion or just dumb?

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 09:34 AM
What was the final word on Manningham? Concussion or just dumb?

I believe they did more tests but haven't heard anything. They'll probably find a brain the size of a squirrel's.

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 12:37 PM
Osi and Manningham are both likely a no go for Sunday. They both didn't take part in practice today. We can't risk further brain damage to Mario or he'll only be able to run in a straight line.

JBCX
09-22-2011, 01:07 PM
So do you guys think Nnamdi will be covering Nicks? Or will it be Asante?

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 01:50 PM
I wonder if I should pick up Victor Cruz in fantasy as a 1 week gap filler since Mario is out.

I mean, someone has to catch the ball right? This game could get ugly.

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 01:56 PM
I don't expect many significant stats from the offensive side of the ball this weekend. Of course that means Eli will probably throw for 400 yards for the first time ever.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 02:01 PM
I want to believe in the reverse jinx but....no man. Sorry. It's not happening.

I see 3 INTs. I can taste 3 INTs. 1 goes to the house.

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 02:03 PM
I want to believe in the reverse jinx but....no man. Sorry. It's not happening.

I see 3 INTs. I can taste 3 INTs. 1 goes to the house.

:( I'm trying to stay positive but I do agree. Please run the ball as much as possible Gilbride!!

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 02:04 PM
Plus the thought of Maclin being covered by Ross makes my head hurt.

Can we make it official? Ross is a bust. He's terrible. I've given him plenty of time to prove it was just injuries and other guys in front of him who are better, plus we let him slide bc we don't win the SB without him, but at this point in his career, he's horrible.

He's just name recognition and living off of 1st round status at this point. He's slow, he can't drop his hips, he has horrible change of direction speed, he has poor ball skills in man coverage, he grabs a lot, he can't tackle, he's just not very good.

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 02:05 PM
Well he'll be gone after this year so we won't have to see him much longer. He went downhill quick after his rookie year.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 02:07 PM
Sad to see what's he's become. He had potential to be very good. I just think his head isn't in the game.

With Webster getting older, Thomas tearing his ACL and Ross being a dud, the drafting of Amukamara is looking better and better as the weeks go by.

Another strength of ours is suddenly a weakness. We came into this season thinking we're deep at CB and WR, and we learned that we're not deep in either. Not anymore at least.

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 02:18 PM
We were deep at CB. No one can forsee the massive numbers of injuries there. We were deep at WR last year but without Smith we still had concerns about the WR corps coming into this year.

Jughead10
09-22-2011, 02:19 PM
I wonder if I should pick up Victor Cruz in fantasy as a 1 week gap filler since Mario is out.

I mean, someone has to catch the ball right? This game could get ugly.

I was considering the same with Stokely. He could really be our savior potentially. Although I'm not counting on it.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 02:22 PM
We were deep at CB. No one can forsee the massive numbers of injuries there. We were deep at WR last year but without Smith we still had concerns about the WR corps coming into this year.

Yeah we were deep. But moving forward, I don't know if we can say we're deep anymore.

Think about it.

1. Webster is getting old. He's 29 and I can already see him losing a step. He's still very good but you can't be great forever. His time to start declining has come.

2. Thomas tore his ACL. We have no idea if he'll recover from it, and if he does, I don't expect him to be great his first year back. ACLs are a huge deal for CBs.

3. We all thought Ross wasn't a great 1 or 2, but we assumed he'd be very servicable as a 3. Well, he just plain sucks. Plus he's gone after this year anyway.

So when you think about it, CB isn't a strength anymore moving forward. We have yet to see if Prince is actually any good yet (hopefully he is), but even if he is, we still need another CB. We need a guy who can replace Webster in 2 years, and we need a guy in case Thomas is a dud, or if we lose him in FA as well bc we don't trust his knee.

So we're not deep anymore. We were. But not anymore.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 02:23 PM
I was considering the same with Stokely. He could really be our savior potentially. Although I'm not counting on it.

Yeah I'm torn btw Cruz or Stokely. Or neither.

I need another guy who can get me 10 points a game bad. Right now both my teams (2 leagues) are very thin, I need to strengthen my bench in both and I'm missing a good flex option in both leagues.

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 02:25 PM
I'd lean towards Stokely over Cruz. I think Eli will look his way more.

Jughead10
09-22-2011, 02:37 PM
Yeah I'm torn btw Cruz or Stokely. Or neither.

I need another guy who can get me 10 points a game bad. Right now both my teams (2 leagues) are very thin, I need to strengthen my bench in both and I'm missing a good flex option in both leagues.

Why do you suck so bad?

Jughead10
09-22-2011, 02:38 PM
I'd lean towards Stokely over Cruz. I think Eli will look his way more.

Yeah, apparently they know each other from some of those Manning passing camps or something. Plus Stokely's package got bigger. Did you hear that?

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 02:40 PM
Yeah. It was small. But then it got bigger during the game.

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 02:41 PM
Yeah, apparently they know each other from some of those Manning passing camps or something. Plus Stokely's package got bigger. Did you hear that?

Are you setting me up with that one?

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 02:41 PM
Yeah. It was small. But then it got bigger during the game.

Haha I didn't take the bait.

Jughead10
09-22-2011, 02:44 PM
Are you setting me up with that one?

No I just saw that quote on Leno the other night for the first time. I was dying.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 02:44 PM
Haha I didn't take the bait.

2UvHPvCTzrU

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 02:45 PM
No I just saw that quote on Leno the other night for the first time. I was dying.

EWWW Leno? What are you 60?

Jughead10
09-22-2011, 02:49 PM
EWWW Leno? What are you 60?

I dunno why I watching. I normally don't watch but it was on.

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 02:50 PM
Hopefully some hottie was a guest that night.

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 03:49 PM
Why is everyone making such a big deal about the faking injury thing? I've seen this countless times since I started watching football and I've never seen so much said about it. I don't get it.

Jughead10
09-22-2011, 03:54 PM
Why is everyone making such a big deal about the faking injury thing? I've seen this countless times since I started watching football and I've never seen so much said about it. I don't get it.

Haha. It was especially bad. I don't care either but it was funny. The fact that we couldn't make up our minds about who should be hurt only makes it worse.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2011, 03:54 PM
Monday Night. National Game. New York market.

That's why.

Any football fan with half a brain knows that this was a tactic that's been employed by defenses since the dawn of time. It was done to the Bills and Bengals no huddle offenses in the 80s and 90s almost every week.

Happens to Indy all the time.


But it's monday night, it's a national game, and it's NY. So it gets discussed ad nauseum.

I could care less. I'm sure the Giants could care less too.

Giantsfan1080
09-22-2011, 04:01 PM
Yeah I just found it amusing how much coverage it was getting.

Rosebud
09-22-2011, 04:22 PM
So do you guys think Nnamdi will be covering Nicks? Or will it be Asante?

If you guys are going to shadow Nicks I'd have to assume it'd be Aso since he's a better corner than Asante.

igglefanz
09-23-2011, 12:19 AM
What is the status on Osi and Mario are they still up in the air or out for the game?

bigbluedefense
09-23-2011, 07:30 AM
Osi is out, Mario is probably out.

With our injuries at WR, I expect us to use Beckum a lot this Sunday if he's healthy enough to play. They'll probably split him out wide for most of the game.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2011, 09:21 AM
Went back and watched the Rams game again last night. It's funny how your initial perceptions of games can be so wrong when you go back and watch them again.

Fewell did blitz a lot more than I originally thought. Coverage was horrible at times, good at times. Sam made some incredible throws. Ross looked great at times, and horrible at times.

The middle of the field is wide open. I've been saying it for more than a year now, the key to beating the Giants in the pass game is the skinny post up the middle of the field. It's wide open every single time.

And it still is. Until we get a dominant pass coverage LB, it will always be open. Just wait until we play a Saints or a Packers type team that will expose that and embarass us.

The front 4 has been on fire for 2 games now. The back 7...not so much.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 09:38 AM
I thought Boley had his best game as a Giant last week. How did he look on the re-watch?

bigbluedefense
09-23-2011, 09:45 AM
Boley looked great. It was Jones and Kiwi who looked stiff in coverage. Those 2 were predominately covering the middle of the field.

And there's this gap between the safeties and linebackers that's just massive. Makes me wonder if we need safeties too. Realistically it's the MIKE. We need a MIKE who can cover the deep middle and a SAM who can clean up underneath.

I know injuries have crippled what we can do defensively, but this has been an issue even before injuries. We need linebackers. Bad.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 10:00 AM
Well that's good to hear then. Boley can help clean up the other LB's game if he can step up like that most of the time. I was never a fan of Kiwi to LB and I don't think he ever becomes more than average there. He's just a million times better in both the run and pass when he put his hand in the ground. Maybe as the season goes on some of the rookie LB's can step up and we can throw Kiwi back on the Dline even though that's extremely doubtful. We're asking way to much of Jones so it's not a surprise that he's going to struggle at times. I liked what I've seen out of him in the run game and that was always his strength at MSU. I hope we don't skip LB in the draft thinking we'll be set next year because of the experience the younger players will be getting this year.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2011, 11:13 AM
I hope not. We need an athlete at MIKE. With the way the NFL is trending towards passing the ball 70% of the time, I've learned to de-emphasize my desire for stoute run defenders on defense.

I think we just need to go after speed guys in the back 7 now. I rather sacrifice some run stuffing for better pass coverage. In the past I wouldn't, but with the way the league is now, I think that's the better approach.

I want us to grab 2 fast athletic linebackers. Our run stuffing will suffer bc of it bc we will no longer have a thumping presence in the LB core to stuff the run, but I think our pass coverage gains would more than make up for it.

Obviously, a guy who can do both is best of both worlds. Like Luke from BC is ideal, but if we can't get a guy like that, then let's just get some speed linebackers.

We need speed. Our back 7 is too slow.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 11:20 AM
Kuechly is my #1 want right now. If Coughlin's still around he'll be pressing for him I think since he's a BC guy.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 11:30 AM
Osi inactive and MM as well. Man, we really haven't had good news at all. We signed Clayton and IRed Hixon.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 11:36 AM
Clayton makes sense as he already has a good jump on the offense. I liked what I saw out of him last year.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 11:41 AM
This season looks bad before it's even started. For one season, I'd like us to stay healthy or somewhat healthy so I can see what we can do.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 11:45 AM
By the time that happens a lot of our most talented players will be on the downside of their careers.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 11:47 AM
That's if it happens. That's why we need better drafting. This year's draft has been a waste. Only contributions are from the LBs. Everyone else is hurt or inactive! lol.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 11:54 AM
'"We investigate everything," Reese said following practice Thursday afternoon. "He (Moss) hasn't been in our building so it would be unfair to make an evaluation of him. We don't really know him. He's a terrific receiver as we've seen from his time in the league. Our offense is predicated on reads, which is hard for some guys to pick up. But it's not something that a veteran like him would have trouble with."'

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 11:56 AM
'"We investigate everything," Reese said following practice Thursday afternoon. "He (Moss) hasn't been in our building so it would be unfair to make an evaluation of him. We don't really know him. He's a terrific receiver as we've seen from his time in the league. Our offense is predicated on reads, which is hard for some guys to pick up. But it's not something that a veteran like him would have trouble with."'

BBD is going to love that and at this point I'm all for it also. I didn't want him here at first even though I love him as a player but right now we need talent on the field. He'd be a great addition at this point.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 11:57 AM
I was pointing out the read part of it. Basically, it comes down to can ANY Wr follow our specific system?

bigbluedefense
09-23-2011, 12:12 PM
'"We investigate everything," Reese said following practice Thursday afternoon. "He (Moss) hasn't been in our building so it would be unfair to make an evaluation of him. We don't really know him. He's a terrific receiver as we've seen from his time in the league. Our offense is predicated on reads, which is hard for some guys to pick up. But it's not something that a veteran like him would have trouble with."'

I JUST...WELL...YOU KNOW WHAT I JUST DID.

Moss would be awesome. I'd buy the blue, the white, and the red jersey. **** it, I'll buy the pink one too.

And Moss is perfect for our system. He's been running choice routes in NE, and Tom terrific has said nobody understands coverages better than Moss, Moss was the smartest WR he's ever played with.

Let's get him. I'll drive him to the stadium my damn self.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 12:14 PM
I was pointing out the read part of it. Basically, it comes down to can ANY Wr follow our specific system?

Well we already knew about that so I thought you were bringing up the Moss part. We've all discussed the complexity of the offense ad nauseum here. It's still why I'm shocked you really thought Mario was going to step up and have a monster year.

JBCX
09-23-2011, 12:51 PM
Vontaze Burfict would be a beast of a MLB for the Giants.

Could be the next Ray Lewis.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 12:52 PM
I JUST...WELL...YOU KNOW WHAT I JUST DID.

Moss would be awesome. I'd buy the blue, the white, and the red jersey. **** it, I'll buy the pink one too.

And Moss is perfect for our system. He's been running choice routes in NE, and Tom terrific has said nobody understands coverages better than Moss, Moss was the smartest WR he's ever played with.

Let's get him. I'll drive him to the stadium my damn self.

Do you need to change your undies BBD?

Hahaha, no one is perfect for our system. Smith was as good as it gets in our specific system. He chose to leave, and now is a nobody in system with much more weapons.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 12:52 PM
Vontaze Burfict would be a beast of a MLB for the Giants.

Could be the next Ray Lewis.

No more defensive players allowed.. Any suggestions on offensive players will be welcomed, however!

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 12:54 PM
Well we already knew about that so I thought you were bringing up the Moss part. We've all discussed the complexity of the offense ad nauseum here. It's still why I'm shocked you really thought Mario was going to step up and have a monster year.

Because he has talent? Or have you missed all those home runs he hit last season? He almost had 2 last game. One was a poor throw, and another one he tripped on himself and got a concussion! HAHA, god, that is comical when you say it out loud. But hey, we are the giants, so I am really not surprised. Another WR makes a sick catch and is out for the season. So at this point, I don't discount a UFO abduction, a comet hitting a player, or a stadium light falling on someone's ACL.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 12:55 PM
Not to rehash everything but like I said he'll be good here but he'll never make the jump to superstar. He's just to dumb. He also runs incorrect routes a ton of times still.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 01:01 PM
Not to rehash everything but like I said he'll be good here but he'll never make the jump to superstar. He's just to dumb. He also runs incorrect routes a ton of times still.

True, but his explosiveness is what is keeping him on the team, and having him start. He is just too good not to have on the field. He is a homerun hitter. Put it this way, when the filth of this system is washed away, and if the next HC or OC installs something new we could have the potential to be a sick offense.

Even with this PHd offense you see Manningham working away and still making plays or putting himself in a spot to make plays. Dumb or not dumb. He had 2 home run chances last game.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 01:03 PM
I agree with that and I won't argue he's not a good WR. He's a very good WR but he'll never be a great WR in this system. His explosiveness is something we haven't seen on this team in a long long time and that is a welcome sight. I just didn't want to rely on him alone turning the page as becoming our #2.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2011, 01:09 PM
I've said it before, Mario has potential to be a stud WR in a different system. Put him in a WCO or Air Coryell system and he'll be a very good WR.

He's just not smart enough for this system. Hopefully if we get a new system he's still around bc I do like his potential in a simpler offense.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 01:11 PM
I agree with that and I won't argue he's not a good WR. He's a very good WR but he'll never be a great WR in this system. His explosiveness is something we haven't seen on this team in a long long time and that is a welcome sight. I just didn't want to rely on him alone turning the page as becoming our #2.

Yeah that could work out that way. But what do you define as great? If he is great than what about Nicks? I think Mario as a Z is the homerun threat while Nicks is that steady X who can hit homeruns but may not get that many especially if teams roll the coverages that way. That means we may see more productivity out of Manningham.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 01:12 PM
I've said it before, Mario has potential to be a stud WR in a different system. Put him in a WCO or Air Coryell system and he'll be a very good WR.

He's just not smart enough for this system. Hopefully if we get a new system he's still around bc I do like his potential in a simpler offense.

Talking about other systems makes me sad... I'd rather get kicked in the balls. All i want is a new offensive system. A brand new one! Nice and new out of the box!

bigbluedefense
09-23-2011, 01:15 PM
Talking about other systems makes me sad... I'd rather get kicked in the balls. All i want is a new offensive system. A brand new one! Nice and new out of the box!

Can't be just any system though. Gilbride isn't the only crappy coordinator out there.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 01:24 PM
Can't be just any system though. Gilbride isn't the only crappy coordinator out there.

Well the assumption is that the system is TC's system with Gilbride adding to it and calling the plays.

But at this point, let me try any new OC and we can go from there.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2011, 01:26 PM
Well the assumption is that the system is TC's system with Gilbride adding to it and calling the plays.

But at this point, let me try any new OC and we can go from there.

Only way you're getting a new system is if Coughlin is fired or retires.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 01:34 PM
Yup, and I like TC a lot. But his loyalty to coaches is annoying. In a way I don't want him to go, because I don't know who the next one will be and how good. But the other part of me, wants him gone if that means a new offensive system that can make better use of the talent.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2011, 01:41 PM
I like TC the figurehead and team manager.

But his X and O philosophies I disagree with. He likes the run n shoot, and he likes Cover 2.

So until he's gone, we won't see the changes we want. Like the guy, but I think it's time for a fresh start.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 01:47 PM
I like TC the figurehead and team manager.

But his X and O philosophies I disagree with. He likes the run n shoot, and he likes Cover 2.

So until he's gone, we won't see the changes we want. Like the guy, but I think it's time for a fresh start.

Unfortunately I agree. I really do like him but I don't see any creativity that's needed for the last few years. He's a little to stubborn. The thing is I'm not sure we bring in a new coach that's any different. Cowher is waiting to pounce on this job and he's set in his ways also. He may even worse at this point because he hasn't coached in the NFL in 4 years now. A lot has changed since then.

Jughead10
09-23-2011, 01:51 PM
I really like Todd Haley. KC is brutal right now so that would worry me. But Cassell sucks. Always has.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 01:57 PM
I really like Todd Haley. KC is brutal right now so that would worry me. But Cassell sucks. Always has.

I don't know about him. I'd rather start with a new coach than have a retread.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 02:02 PM
I like TC the figurehead and team manager.

But his X and O philosophies I disagree with. He likes the run n shoot, and he likes Cover 2.

So until he's gone, we won't see the changes we want. Like the guy, but I think it's time for a fresh start.

Yeah so the thing would be the Steeler style or way... Keep the HC but cycle coordinators. However, this is the Coach's system, and he is too loyal to his coaches. That's where the issue is.

Jughead10
09-23-2011, 02:06 PM
I don't know about him. I'd rather start with a new coach than have a retread.

I'd consider Mangini too. He got the short end of the stick twice.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 02:10 PM
Mangini here again? The guy with literally no personality as a HC. Basically he was trying to be Bill B without the accomplishments which was the knock on Coughlin and his strict nature.

I am not sure I'd want him anywhere near NY again.

Jughead10
09-23-2011, 02:21 PM
Mangini here again? The guy with literally no personality as a HC. Basically he was trying to be Bill B without the accomplishments which was the knock on Coughlin and his strict nature.

I am not sure I'd want him anywhere near NY again.

Why? Mangini has tons of personality. He just has no time for the media. But like you said, neither does Coughlin. I don't really care about that. The media can write all the articles they want. Hell, they've been trying to get Coughlin fired since year 2-3.

I'd rather that than a media ***** like Rex Ryan.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 02:24 PM
I don't care about his personality he's just not that good of a coach. He's average at best.

Jughead10
09-23-2011, 02:33 PM
I don't care about his personality he's just not that good of a coach. He's average at best.

I disagree. You can throw out his entire tenure in Cleveland in my opinion. He never had a shot to succeed there. And he had Brett Favre pushed on him by his owner the final year he was in NY.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 02:40 PM
Why? Mangini has tons of personality. He just has no time for the media. But like you said, neither does Coughlin. I don't really care about that. The media can write all the articles they want. Hell, they've been trying to get Coughlin fired since year 2-3.

I'd rather that than a media ***** like Rex Ryan.

Yes, but I remember when Mangini was here. The guy is always in a bad mode, and rude to people. I remember Mike F talking about that on the WFAN. The guy is dull and no personality I remember them ripping on him. I don't want him near us. I am sure other coaches would want the change to coach here in NY.

Rex has personality but it comes in the form of arrogance. And that does turn people off too. That's why some people hate him.

Rosebud
09-23-2011, 02:46 PM
I don't know about him. I'd rather start with a new coach than have a retread.

If KC does terribad and he gets fired I think he'll need to OC for at least a year and won't get another HC shot unless he puts together another great offense. If we go with a first time HC I think Haley could be a really nice fit running the offense. Especially with our young receivers being a year older, the OL a year more gel'd and a defense healthy and still awaiting to find out which position will get raped by injuries.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 02:56 PM
If KC does terribad and he gets fired I think he'll need to OC for at least a year and won't get another HC shot unless he puts together another great offense. If we go with a first time HC I think Haley could be a really nice fit running the offense. Especially with our young receivers being a year older, the OL a year more gel'd and a defense healthy and still awaiting to find out which position will get raped by injuries.

That's fine with me especially because I'd want a defensive minded HC.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 02:57 PM
How do you guys feel about this game on sunday?

Jughead10
09-23-2011, 03:07 PM
Yes, but I remember when Mangini was here. The guy is always in a bad mode, and rude to people. I remember Mike F talking about that on the WFAN. The guy is dull and no personality I remember them ripping on him. I don't want him near us. I am sure other coaches would want the change to coach here in NY.

Rex has personality but it comes in the form of arrogance. And that does turn people off too. That's why some people hate him.

Well if Mike didn't like him, he must be a terrible person.

Giantsfan1080
09-23-2011, 03:09 PM
How do you guys feel about this game on sunday?

Not good at all. Hope they surprise me.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 03:23 PM
Well if Mike didn't like him, he must be a terrible person.

Yup, we are on the same page now.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 03:25 PM
Not good at all. Hope they surprise me.

Me either, I expect us to lose, big time actually. I don't trust this offense, and the way QBs are throwing on us, I expect Vick to do some damage, unless we can hit him and hit him really hard early.

Rosebud
09-23-2011, 03:25 PM
I dunno. I kinda expect us to get blown out but there's a part of me that thinks we'll continue to improve our play and make a game of this, maybe even get to blow a 4th quarter lead!

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2011, 03:29 PM
Well if we continue to struggle on 3rd downs, then that means more chances for that offense to do something. That's what worries me.

OSUGiants17
09-23-2011, 06:30 PM
I really like Todd Haley. KC is brutal right now so that would worry me. But Cassell sucks. Always has.

If he gets fired as KC's HC then he will most likely have to go back to being a OC for a few years and I would love to have him over Killdrive

EDIT: Someone already said it lol, but whatever. If we fire Coughlin and Gillbride, and Fewell gets a HC job like I predict, Mike Zimmer or Brian Van Gorder at HC, Haley at OC and a new DC would be what I want.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-24-2011, 11:45 AM
Brian Van Gorder? Who is that?

Giantsfan1080
09-24-2011, 12:04 PM
Brian Van Gorder? Who is that?

Defensive Coordinator for the Falcons.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-24-2011, 04:41 PM
Defensive Coordinator for the Falcons.

Hmm I didn't know that. When I went down there I was chilling with the offense. I wonder if I met him. Man that's embarrassing that I didn't know who he was, lol. I remember the OC, and that obviously Smith and Te coach.

Giantsfan1080
09-24-2011, 09:30 PM
Haha it's ok. Hard to remember everyone.

bigbluedefense
09-25-2011, 08:01 AM
Isn't Van Gorder a Cover 2 guy? Do not...want..

Giantsfan1080
09-25-2011, 09:56 AM
Isn't Van Gorder a Cover 2 guy? Do not...want..

I don't know his defensive philosophies but if that's the case then hell no.

bigbluedefense
09-25-2011, 11:23 AM
I don't know his defensive philosophies but if that's the case then hell no.

I know Mike Smith is a Cover 2 guy, and the Falcons run a Cover 2.

So I'm assuming he's also a Cover 2 guy. Zimmer is the only 4-3 man coverage guy that I know of that's available. Most 4-3 guys nowadays are Cover 2. All the blitzers run a 34.

Other than Spags and Greg Williams, they're the last of the known aggressive 43 coordinators. I'm sure there are guys out there, but they're unknowns to anyone outside of the coaching community.

Being that I want a HC that's a former DC to bring stability to the defense for a change, I want a guy like Zimmer to shore up the defense.

We really dropped the ball in not getting John Fox. I was really hoping he'd wait a year. If he just sat this year out, he would have been a lock to be our next HC.

bigbluedefense
09-25-2011, 11:25 AM
Unless we have the balls to dust off the HC gloves of Greg Williams and offer him a 2nd chance at it.

I don't think it would be a terrible idea. He'll handle the defense, and hopefully let Eli do his thing on offense. It's something to ponder.

Forenci
09-25-2011, 12:01 PM
I know Mike Smith is a Cover 2 guy, and the Falcons run a Cover 2.

So I'm assuming he's also a Cover 2 guy. Zimmer is the only 4-3 man coverage guy that I know of that's available. Most 4-3 guys nowadays are Cover 2. All the blitzers run a 34.

Other than Spags and Greg Williams, they're the last of the known aggressive 43 coordinators. I'm sure there are guys out there, but they're unknowns to anyone outside of the coaching community.

Being that I want a HC that's a former DC to bring stability to the defense for a change, I want a guy like Zimmer to shore up the defense.

We really dropped the ball in not getting John Fox. I was really hoping he'd wait a year. If he just sat this year out, he would have been a lock to be our next HC.

Meh, I've always felt like John Fox was a mediocre head coach. Not to say that he's awful, just not a huge fan. He's kinda in the Cowher/Jeff Fisher group to me. He's done some good stuff, but ultimately I don't feel like it was directly related to his coaching ability.

BaLLiN
09-25-2011, 12:29 PM
Jacquian Williams looks good, who called that eh? I love Greg Jones but he needs time to adjust to the game especially because he isn't the most physically gifted.

Malaka
09-25-2011, 02:02 PM
Oh my, we have choked away this lead...

OSUGiants17
09-25-2011, 03:20 PM
Oh my, we have choked away this lead...

And got it back for a HUGE win! This game was HUGE, in Philly and we came in banged up

BigBlueNorwegian
09-25-2011, 03:39 PM
YES!!!!!!!!!!! Absolutely fantastic win, I'm in heaven right now!! WOHOOOO!!

NY+Giants=NYG
09-25-2011, 03:41 PM
We won! JPP!!! 2 sacks! Damn he is turning out to be a diamond in the rough!

Damix
09-25-2011, 03:42 PM
Gotta love getting off an international flight and getting to watch the Giants win while waiting for customs.

scottyboy
09-25-2011, 03:50 PM
that. was. awesome.

Malaka
09-25-2011, 03:53 PM
This made my day and quite possibly my week. Thank you so much Giants, I can talk so much **** finally to those God Damn bandwagon "DREAM TEAM" fans where I live.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-25-2011, 04:18 PM
Gotta love Eagles fans..

Paysinger

Quote:
Getting cursed @, bottles thrown at our buses, and middle fingers by kids, teens, adults, elders. Philly fans are the best! #NYG Stand UP!


Tuck
Quote:
Wow. We just had a 7 maybe 8 year old. Throw a beer at the bus. #greatparents. Not


Quote:
I've never seen some many middle fingers lol I love it.


Sash

Thanks for the hospitality Philly. #shoutout to the 4 year old that flipped me off today. Bigger shoutout to the kids dad who allowed it.

Forenci
09-25-2011, 04:36 PM
What about some love for Victor Cruz!

I only got to see parts of the game via Red Zone but damn it looked nice, haha.

Can't wait to see the write ups for the game from BBD, NYG, etc.

Like I said, didn't get to see every bit of the game, but it sounds like BBD was spot on in his early analysis of the Eagles. Doesn't look like their secondary gave up much to anyone (Manningham not playing also hurt) but their front seven just got abused by the run (Bradshaw) and on passes to the RB's.

Plus Vick got hurt, which I think most people predicted.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-25-2011, 04:39 PM
Watching the game now since I missed most of it... J . williams is a stud! Fast as anything and blitzed perfectly to make Vick get rid of it which then bounced off of Smith's hands.