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bigbluedefense
02-11-2011, 06:29 AM
Discuss the New York Giants.

GO BIG BLUE!

Giantsfan1080
02-11-2011, 09:47 AM
I guess this means the other thread is gone for good. That sucks.

bigbluedefense
02-11-2011, 11:07 AM
Yeah, it's gone.

Giantsfan1080
02-11-2011, 11:14 AM
We lost a lot of good discussion in that thread.

bigbluedefense
02-11-2011, 11:23 AM
Yeah we did. Unfortunate but what can ya do.

But here's to some new discussions that are just as good :)

Giantsfan1080
02-11-2011, 12:02 PM
And another Super Bowl like that last thread had.

Forenci
02-11-2011, 12:03 PM
Boo! I already miss the old thread. :(

scottyboy
02-11-2011, 02:00 PM
well i think we can all recall i was never ever wrong in that old thread.
and the trend shall continue in this one!

OSUGiants17
02-11-2011, 05:01 PM
I miss the old one :(

bigbluedefense
02-12-2011, 06:55 AM
Eh. It was just a thread. No big deal.

I'm curious to see how many FAs we lose/add this offseason. With the uncertainty this offseason brings, you really have no idea what direction the team is going to move in. It's all very confusing.

OSUGiants17
02-12-2011, 09:49 AM
theres 3 guys I really want to bring back, Smith, Bradshaw and Cofield, let the others walk

scottyboy
02-12-2011, 11:35 AM
i want them back, but boss as well. we're a 10 win team, no need for real overhaul.

bigbluedefense
02-12-2011, 12:58 PM
I have no idea what I want. It all depends on what happens moving forward. If there's no cap, why not bring all of them back? Who cares right? It's not our money and the Giants can afford it.

But if there is a cap, then who we bring back will depend on a number of factors.

It really depends on the new CBA.

Rosebud
02-12-2011, 01:08 PM
i want them back, but boss as well. we're a 10 win team, no need for real overhaul.

Yeah, that's the frustrating thing about this team, we're clearly flawed along our OL and our dependence on our starting WRs staying healthy, plus our D needs a boost be it a more consistent and time consuming offense, more DL depth, a stud LB or another quality DB, but we still won 10 games which should've got us into the playoffs despite the injuries at WR and poor OL play.

bigbluedefense
02-12-2011, 01:19 PM
We're not that far away. We're an impact linebacker and some fresh bodies along the oline away from being true contenders if we stay healthy for a change.

The thing is, some vital pieces need to be retained in order for us to take that next step. We need better depth at DT so even if we don't resign Coffield and decide to hand the keys to Joseph, we still need to sign somebody as an able body to keep Joseph and Canty fresh throughout the year.

We could benefit from a healthy Kiwi. It allows us to remain patient with JPP and depth is always a good thing.

As much as I hate Boss for being slow, he's dependable and has sure hands, so we can stand to keep him as well.

Honestly, I wouldn't lose sleep over Bradshaw. Fumbles too much. I wouldn't mind us drafting a RB. Wouldn't mind keeping him, but I'm ok with us letting a RB walk. I'm just not a fan of overpaying for running backs when it's such an easy position to fill.

I don't know what we do moving forward. But I do know, the more guys we lose, the more holes we have when we approach the draft. So locking up some of these guys would be a good idea.

bigbluedefense
02-12-2011, 01:22 PM
Development of these young guys will be interesting too. Simply put, none of us have any idea how Beatty, Sintim, Barden and Beckum will progress moving forward.

If those 4 take a huge step this year, that's a major major boost to this team. It's year 3 for all of them, and year 3 is usually a make or break year. If you see no progress in year 3, then you pretty much know you have a JAG.

I'm not saying you have to be a world beater in year 3, but you have to show progress.

But yeah, long story short, getting something out of those 4 guys would be huge for this team moving forward. We need more out of those guys and the only people who really know what they can give us moving forward are the guys who are in that building. Bc they see them every day at practice, they see them study film, they see their development.

Rosebud
02-12-2011, 01:26 PM
Development of these young guys will be interesting too. Simply put, none of us have any idea how Beatty, Sintim, Barden and Beckum will progress moving forward.

If those 4 take a huge step this year, that's a major major boost to this team. It's year 3 for all of them, and year 3 is usually a make or break year. If you see no progress in year 3, then you pretty much know you have a JAG.

I'm not saying you have to be a world beater in year 3, but you have to show progress.

But yeah, long story short, getting something out of those 4 guys would be huge for this team moving forward. We need more out of those guys.

This probably cause I'm draftnik but I've got a really good feeling about Barden and Beatty this year. Barden looked good right before he got hurt, I think that this year he really steps up as our red zone killer and gives us the WR depth to handle an injury to Smith, Nicks or Mario without skipping a beat. I also think Beatty will finally have the strength to hold onto a starting spot, and if he's got the strength I think we'll see him growing steadily as the year advances.

Sintim I have no ******* clue about anymore, I still like him as a SAM but he needs to get beastly against the run again and Beckum I'm cautiously optimistic with, he was blocking better this year and was doing things pretty well, just not sure if we'll utilize...lol utilize...him properly.

Forenci
02-12-2011, 01:29 PM
To me the only must-keep player is Steve Smith. He's too valuable to this team and if we aren't going to stop running this insanely complex offense we need a guy who we know will be on the same page as Eli. After that I'd like to keep Cofield and Boss, but I wouldn't lost sleep if either left. Bradshaw I like but as BBD, he's a fumbler and it's not like he's a game breaker or anything. Kiwi I'd like to retain too if we can get him on a one year deal like Reese said.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-13-2011, 12:04 PM
Wasn't this thread more pages?

scottyboy
02-13-2011, 12:35 PM
well there was a rumor bradshaw was playing later in the year with a broken wrist. i read that somewhere, he had surgery too, right?
Smith is a MUST keep and Cofield REALLY played well last year. Boss is a guy I feel we can keep for cheap and I really like Beckum and feel he can be a valuable weapon. Sintim and Beatty? I have no freaking clue what to think of them, and they're such big keys dammit.
Bradshaw...i'd love to keep. love everything about him minus the fumbling and injuries haha. He runs hard, great attitude, great talent and just fits us so well.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-13-2011, 12:38 PM
Beatty has done a good job. He is still developing.

scottyboy
02-13-2011, 12:41 PM
he has improved, but where do we see him? Do we trust him being a full time LT? are we more comfortable grooming him at RT behind K-Mac? Beatty really is a key piece for us going forward, and really plays a big part in this draft and the next.

OSUGiants17
02-13-2011, 01:16 PM
Ahmad Bradshaw unsure if team can keep him, Brandon Jacobs

New York Giants impending free-agent RB Ahmad Bradshaw said he is not sure if the team can afford keeping him and RB Brandon Jacobs moving forward because of how much their combined salaries could be, reports Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News. "I don't think they'll be able to finance both of us financially," Bradshaw said. "But you just never know. It may be possible. There's even talk they might keep both of us. You just never know."

Bradshaw (wrist, ankle) played the final six games of the season with a broken left wrist, reports Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News. He is scheduled to have surgery next week to clean debris in his left ankle, according to Vinny DiTrani, of The Bergen Record. Bradshaw said he will not need surgery on the broken wrist he suffered late in the season.

OSUGiants17
02-13-2011, 01:17 PM
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2011/02/video_giants_chad_jones_making.html
Chad Jones has yet to play a down with the Giants. Heck, he's barely even practiced with them since the team selected him in the third round of last year's NFL Draft. But I get roughly as many questions about Jones as any of the team's active players, so I've tried to provide as many updates as I can.

Recently, I e-mailed his physical therapist, John Moran of Southern Orthopaedic Specialists in Jones' native New Orleans, to ask how Jones' rehab from leg injuries suffered in a serious car accident was coming along. It had been four months since we spent a day with him in New Orleans in early October. That was the first day Jones ran in the pool and he struggled to make it through a few laps. Earlier that day, he grimaced as he battled to walk on the treadmill at 0.9 mph.

Over the past few months, Jones has made impressive progress. In videos shot by Moran on his iPhone -- videos that have been sent to the Giants to keep them abreast of Jones' progress -- one can see the former two-sport star at LSU is now jogging on the treadmill, pushing off on his injured left leg while throwing a weighted ball, high-stepping with a football and shuffling though agility drills:



It might not look like much, and Jones absolutely has a long way to go before he can set foot on an NFL field, but consider the progress he's made in only four months. Below is the video from our October trip to New Orleans. At the 1:34 mark, you can see what was then his max speed on the treadmill and realize how his jogging in the recent clips is a sign of remarkable progress.



Jones was to move his rehab up here so he could work with the Giants' trainers and equipment. I'm unsure at this point if he's done so yet, though the impending lockout would be a problem. If the owners lock out the players, the Giants' facility would be unavailable to Jones and the rest of the team.
video in link


Glad to see he is making a recovery and if he can ever come back and play for us it will be one of the biggest comeback stories ever

bigbluedefense
02-13-2011, 03:40 PM
If Jones comes back, I'd imagine it would be in 2013. I don't see him playing this year. Let's all hope that he makes a healthy recovery though. I'm definitely rooting for him.

Im in the minority that wants to keep Jacobs. I honestly rather have Jacobs than Bradshaw.

Sucks that we didn't go after Blount. The guy is like a younger Jacobs, but better.

OSUGiants17
02-13-2011, 04:01 PM
If Jones comes back, I'd imagine it would be in 2013. I don't see him playing this year. Let's all hope that he makes a healthy recovery though. I'm definitely rooting for him.

Im in the minority that wants to keep Jacobs. I honestly rather have Jacobs than Bradshaw.

Sucks that we didn't go after Blount. The guy is like a younger Jacobs, but better.
From what I heard Jones is at least 3 years from playing in a game, maybe even 4.

Forenci
02-13-2011, 04:03 PM
If Jones comes back, I'd imagine it would be in 2013. I don't see him playing this year. Let's all hope that he makes a healthy recovery though. I'm definitely rooting for him.

Im in the minority that wants to keep Jacobs. I honestly rather have Jacobs than Bradshaw.

Sucks that we didn't go after Blount. The guy is like a younger Jacobs, but better.

Eh, I'd rather have Bradshaw to be honest. I think he still has a lot left in the tank where as Jacobs I'm not so sure about. Regardless of who we keep or let go, I think it's obvious they need a guy to split carries with. Jacobs gets too banged up and worn out if he doesn't have a guy to share significant carries with and Bradshaw also gets nicked up and may have fumbling issues.

Giantsfan1080
02-14-2011, 07:45 AM
I like Jacobs but I'd much rather have Bradshaw over him.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-14-2011, 09:55 AM
Im in the minority that wants to keep Jacobs. I honestly rather have Jacobs than Bradshaw.

Booooooo BBD! Boooooooooooooooo I say!

bigbluedefense
02-14-2011, 10:56 AM
Haha, what can I say? I'm just a big Jacobs fan. I love how he softens up the defense, brings a physical mentality to our offense, and how he's almost like an extra linemen on passing plays.

I feel like Bradshaw is more replacable than Jacobs. Jacobs isn't washed up either, he had a great year. He looked fast and physical too.

Forenci
02-14-2011, 11:54 AM
Haha, what can I say? I'm just a big Jacobs fan. I love how he softens up the defense, brings a physical mentality to our offense, and how he's almost like an extra linemen on passing plays.

I feel like Bradshaw is more replacable than Jacobs. Jacobs isn't washed up either, he had a great year. He looked fast and physical too.

He isn't washed up but he's getting pretty close to 30 which is a death sentence for a lot of RB's. The problem with Jacobs is I don't think he can ever be a starting, primary RB. He just takes too much abuse when guys are constantly trying to tackle him below the waist. I think he only had his success because Bradshaw was taking the majority of the punishment as the starter.

That said, I think Bradshaw may not be suited to be a primary, starting RB, unless he can get his fumbles under control. Still, he's much younger than Jacobs and if we bring in another back via the draft or free agency I would be more confident in him being able to take a the majority of the carries than I would in Jacobs. That's what it comes down to.

bigbluedefense
02-14-2011, 11:58 AM
I would like a RB in the draft. Truth be told, I wouldn't mind if we got rid of both of em.

I just hate investing money in RBs. It's not worth it. I say let Bradshaw walk, keep Jacobs for a year more or so while the rookie RB learns how to pass protect, then dump Jacobs when he hits 30 and draft his replacement the following year.

I don't want us to get tied up to a RB long term who is fumble prone, will require a pretty decent contract, and is 190 lbs soaking wet and has had just as much of an injury history as Jacobs.

I like Bradshaw, but truth be told, he's replacable.

Forenci
02-14-2011, 12:01 PM
I mean, I'm not a huge Bradshaw fan, but if I had to choose between one or the other I'd take Bradshaw as long as his contract demands weren't absurd.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Reese went with Ingram in the first, even though I do think we have other priorities. If Carimi goes off the board and we're not in love with Solder/Castonzo I could see us going the Ingram route.

bigbluedefense
02-14-2011, 12:09 PM
I like Ingram a lot. I like Murray too. But I like Ingram more.

I have no idea what we do this year. Just like last year, we can go in so many directions. I just want a good player. I say go BPA minus the DE and QB position each round and just call it a day.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-17-2011, 09:36 AM
Haha, what can I say? I'm just a big Jacobs fan. I love how he softens up the defense, brings a physical mentality to our offense, and how he's almost like an extra linemen on passing plays.

I feel like Bradshaw is more replacable than Jacobs. Jacobs isn't washed up either, he had a great year. He looked fast and physical too.

That softens up the defense is debatable. That's assuming he can get the blocks, otherwise he goes no where, except back behind the LOS. He needs the OL to be decent, otherwise he is a god awful to watch. And let's see, for argument sake, he does soften the defense, in that process he gets broken too. He is MUCH more replaceable than Bradshaw, who at one point, led the NFL in rushing. Mind you he was doing this with zero blocking, making something out of nothing. Jacobs meanwhile was a mess to watch.

bigbluedefense
02-17-2011, 09:47 AM
That softens up the defense is debatable. That's assuming he can get the blocks, otherwise he goes no where, except back behind the LOS. He needs the OL to be decent, otherwise he is a god awful to watch. And let's see, for argument sake, he does soften the defense, in that process he gets broken too. He is MUCH more replaceable than Bradshaw, who at one point, led the NFL in rushing. Mind you he was doing this with zero blocking, making something out of nothing. Jacobs meanwhile was a mess to watch.


Bradshaw has become overrated by us. He's 190 lbs soaking wet, he's not a great pass protector (all he does is cut block), he's not great catching the ball and running patterns, he doesn't have elite top end speed, and he's fumble prone.

And he dances too much in the backfield.

I'm not saying he's bad, he's solid. But he's not THAT great. He's a tough little guy who does everything well, nothing great. I don't mind us keeping him, as long as we don't break the bank for him.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-17-2011, 09:57 AM
Bradshaw has become overrated by us. He's 190 lbs soaking wet, he's not a great pass protector (all he does is cut block), he's not great catching the ball and running patterns, he doesn't have elite top end speed, and he's fumble prone.

And he dances too much in the backfield.

I'm not saying he's bad, he's solid. But he's not THAT great. He's a tough little guy who does everything well, nothing great. I don't mind us keeping him, as long as we don't break the bank for him.

Not even close to be over rated. Our fans still don't realize how good of a back Bradshaw is. Yeah I recognize the injury prone fact, and now the fumble issue, but at the end of the day. He has power, agility, vision, and explosive ability. He has good hands, and can create something out of nothing..

That is NOT over rated talent. That's just plain sick, especially at the age of 24 years old. Jacobs is a product of the offensive line! When the blocking is not there Bradshaw can still thrive, while Jacobs gets his large body tackled for a loss in the backfield. Jacobs is not a good back by any stretch. He needs that god like offense line for him to be a good starter. If not, he needs Bradshaw to "loosen" the defense up, before he comes in before he can run and get his yards.

Now, I can agree I won't break the bank for him. even I realize that fact, however, i'd be mad we broke the bank for Jacobs and not Bradshaw. I wasn't in favor of giving Jacobs an extension even though I know we would.

Bradshaw plays with heart and through injury, while jacobs can't even play through that. And Bradshaw keeps his mouth shut. Even you add all the pros and cons, Jacobs wishes he was close to Bradshaw. Bradshaw is a much superior back and he doesn't need the OL to set the table for him.

Jughead10
02-17-2011, 10:01 AM
Why'd we get a new thread?

bigbluedefense
02-17-2011, 10:06 AM
I just hate contracts to RBs. 90% of the time, you overpay and the returns aren't worth it.

Especially when the RB we're discussing is 190 lbs, and has an injury history and fumbling issues.

He's part of a RBC, he can never be a 300 carry a season guy over the course of several seasons. Do we really want to pay for that?

This is going to come off as me hating Bradshaw, and I don't hate him, don't get me wrong, he just really rubbed me the wrong way with his fumbling issues.

Giantsfan1080
02-17-2011, 10:06 AM
Why'd we get a new thread?

There was a problem with the board about a week ago and when they got it back running the old thread was gone.

Giantsfan1080
02-17-2011, 10:07 AM
The fumbling issues were a problem but he did have a broken wrist when most of those occurred so maybe it'll be better this year.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-17-2011, 10:07 AM
Why'd we get a new thread?

The football gods are mad at BBD! : P

Not sure, even I was surprised about this.

bigbluedefense
02-17-2011, 10:07 AM
Why'd we get a new thread?

Old one magically disappeared. We don't know why. I asked Shane if we could get it back but he couldn't recover it, I had to start up a new one.

So here it is.

Jughead10
02-17-2011, 10:08 AM
Old one magically disappeared. We don't know why. I asked Shane if we could get it back but he couldn't recover it, I had to start up a new one.

So here it is.

I bet you Cowboys fans were behind that.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-17-2011, 10:09 AM
I just hate contracts to RBs. 90% of the time, you overpay and the returns aren't worth it.

Especially when the RB we're discussing is 190 lbs, and has an injury history and fumbling issues.

He's part of a RBC, he can never be a 300 carry a season guy over the course of several season. Do we really want to pay for that?

This is going to come off as me hating Bradshaw, and I don't hate him, don't get me wrong, he just really rubbed me the wrong way with his fumbling issues.

We have to work with him about it. It's a bad issue, but then again, we had drops, Ints, and other stuff. All turnovers rub me the wrong way. That's where the coaching staff and position coach, especially, need to come up with creative ways to find a solution.

If not, then draft a better # 1 starter and have Bradshaw be the # 2. Jacobs can be # 3 or find another team.

A lot of Bradshaw's fumbles were trying to get more yards. I like the thought process and heart to do that, but teams saw the window and poked the ball out. It seemed to be tied into the style of running. Ingram needs to work with him.

bigbluedefense
02-17-2011, 10:10 AM
The fumbling issues were a problem but he did have a broken wrist when most of those occurred so maybe it'll be better this year.

That makes Coughlin ******** for giving Bradshaw so many carries on a broken wrist when Jacobs was doing great when he got the chance. That actually makes me more annoyed with Coughlin.

Jughead10
02-17-2011, 10:11 AM
Bradshaw's main fumbling came before he broke his wrist I believe. Having the broken wrist probably caused him to protect his wrist more, thus protecting the ball.

Giantsfan1080
02-17-2011, 10:12 AM
Bradshaw was still running the ball well. I don't blame him.

bigbluedefense
02-17-2011, 10:15 AM
I bet you Cowboys fans were behind that.

They're always up to no good. Like rooting for the Cowboys.


We have to work with him about it. It's a bad issue, but then again, we had drops, Ints, and other stuff. All turnovers rub me the wrong way. That's where the coaching staff and position coach, especially, need to come up with creative ways to find a solution.

If not, then draft a better # 1 starter and have Bradshaw be the # 2. Jacobs can be # 3 or find another team.

A lot of Bradshaw's fumbles were trying to get more yards. I like the thought process and heart to do that, but teams saw the window and poked the ball out. It seemed to be tied into the style of running. Ingram needs to work with him.

It isn't rocket science. The coaching staff has been preaching "high and tight" to him all season, and he still held it like a loaf of bread. Jacobs held it high and tight, Tiki did under Coughlin, Bradshaw has been under Coughlin for 4 years now and he still can't figure it out?

Jughead10
02-17-2011, 10:18 AM
It isn't rocket science. The coaching staff has been preaching "high and tight" to him all season, and he still held it like a loaf of bread. Jacobs held it high and tight, Tiki did under Coughlin, Bradshaw has been under Coughlin for 4 years now and he still can't figure it out?

He tries too hard. 9 time out of 10 the fumbles occur on him giving that second effort for an extra half yard to a yard. He can't help himself.

bigbluedefense
02-17-2011, 10:21 AM
He tries too hard. 9 time out of 10 the fumbles occur on him giving that second effort for an extra half yard to a yard. He can't help himself.

That's the thing though, we have to accept that out of him. That extra fight is the reason why he's a good RB, but that extra fight also leads to fumbles. You get the good with the bad with him.

So is his production enough to warrant his fumbling issues? I'm not sure if it is. Ok fine, so he's better than Jacobs. Big deal. Why does that mean we have to sign him back? Why not draft a guy to replace him that's better than both of them?

None of us can guarantee that he fixes this fumbling issue, which is why I'm cautious about extending him.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-17-2011, 10:22 AM
They're always up to no good. Like rooting for the Cowboys.




It isn't rocket science. The coaching staff has been preaching "high and tight" to him all season, and he still held it like a loaf of bread. Jacobs held it high and tight, Tiki did under Coughlin, Bradshaw has been under Coughlin for 4 years now and he still can't figure it out?

No, but football players are not that smart.. This is at all levels. Trust me, if you actually hear the grades of some of these guys, at any level, mainly HS, and college, you'd be VERY surprised.

C
D
F
F
D
C
D
F
D

After a while you wonder, if school is getting in the way of football. So nothing surprised me of that stand point after witnessing this with my own two eyes.

He does that and it hurts his style. I guess.. What's funny is people rip Bradshaw, and meanwhile are on their knees blowing Hillis and he has MORE fumbles than Bradshaw!

bigbluedefense
02-17-2011, 10:25 AM
Oh trust me. I know athletes are stupid. I'm surprised more people don't know this.

That's why I'm against paying college athletes. 90% of em don't make it to the next level, yet all of them get a free ride and high gpa at a college that they can take with them like the rest of us.

And half of em can't spell their name right. I have no sympathy for the college athlete. They get away with murder.

Giantsfan1080
02-17-2011, 10:37 AM
I think the fumbles will go down this year. We need to keep Bradshaw around. He has improved immensely in pass protection also.

DOMINATEtheline
02-17-2011, 11:03 AM
I love Bradshaw and support him, BUT he fumbles too much. I love and appreciate the way he runs the rock especially since our run blocking was very inconsistent the entire yr, and Bradshaw got most of those 1200 rushing yds on effort and determination.

However, he needs to be more patient running the rock, work on his securing receptions without thinking about YAC, he's been under the knife a bit too much and he's only 24. I believe we need to have more foresight ala Patriots and not resign certain players. Or for that matter trade players before they start going downhill production wise or leave via Free Agency. Of course this is not absolute across the board, but I think this is a tactic that the Giants brass need to implement more. IMO, I feel loyalty clouds their judgment sometimes especially with draft picks (ie Wilkerson, Moss, Kehl, Whimper) As for Bradshaw, I think we should think HARD about resigning him or letting him walk.

Its time to release Jacobs, we got all we needed from him and its time to move on. He's getting a good chuck of cash while he can't catch the out the backfield and doesn't run downhill 100% of the time.

I'll consider starting with entire new backfield or just resigning Bradshaw and getting another running partner.

Here are combinations I would be very pleased to have suit up for us in '11 and beyond:

Option A:Resign Bradshaw and draft one of these:
1. Leshore 5-11, 230 (IMO, the most complete back, the only issue he ran the rock out of a spread offense so it might take him some time to adjust to running out of pro sets)

2. Daniel Thomas 6-1, 230 Kansas St (The only thing I don't like about him is that he runs upright, but excluding that he has nice upside at the next level and good hands for a big back.)

3. Jamie Harper 5-11, 235 Clemson (has all the tools, just needs some good NFL caliber positional coaching.)

4. Alex Green 6-0 230 Hawaii (Very intriguing prospect)

5. Delonte Carter 5-9 225 Syracuse (Some injury concerns here, but a nice under the radar prospect)

Option B: Sign Michael Bush from the Raiders and draft one of these:

1. Shane Vereen 5-10, 205 CAL (Has surprising power for his size, one of the best 3rd down backs in this draft, excellent hands and will contribute on returning kicks.)

2. Derrick Locke 5-8, 185 Kentucky (The game changing ability that he presents is salivating, this is the type of player that can win you a game or two a season, all he needs to get is 12-15 touches through special teams, receiving and rushing. If you seen him run the ball you be surprised the BURST and decisiveness which he displays )

3. Craig Cooper 5-10, 205 THE U (Will contribute on special teams from day one and has good hands, wherever he goes in the draft hes going to be steal)

We must release Jacobs. The bottom line we need to address the RB position, I know we have other needs, but this should be on the list, if we can snatch someone with good hands and can contribute in our return game from day 1 I'll be happy and I'm not opposed to getting two backs in this draft my ideal combination would be either Daniel Thomas & Derrick Locke or Alex Green & Cooper. Any thoughts and comments please share.

bigbluedefense
02-17-2011, 02:09 PM
Michael Bush is an interesting option. RBs are dime a dozen though, I say we just draft one.

I was bored and was watching Giants highlights on youtube. Our defense is nasty when we zone blitz or play man. Goddammit Fewell...

Oh and JPP, I'm excited about him. I almost forgot how much promise he shown me last year. The guy is really going to be something if he just continues to work hard and absorb the defense and get reps in TC.

I'm ticked off that the Eagles got Washburn. Can you imagine what Washburn would've done with JPP?

OSUGiants17
02-17-2011, 02:26 PM
Bradshaw and LeShoure is what I want

NY+Giants=NYG
02-17-2011, 02:39 PM
The more I watch Jacobs play the more I want that "bigback" project to end. I also want that very fast back. I wouldn't mind drafting noel D. later in the draft as the scat back. If we can get our OL to god like status, divine on his own can get a lot of yards. Jacobs has positive qualities, however, he needs the perfect OL to be good. I can also can't stand how he gets tripped up so easily. The guy has zero balance. I cant stand that aspect of his game. A big hole, he runs through it, and he looks like a crashing train rather than a back who is somewhat agile.

DOMINATEtheline
02-17-2011, 03:26 PM
Michael Bush is an interesting option. RBs are dime a dozen though, I say we just draft one.

I was bored and was watching Giants highlights on youtube. Our defense is nasty when we zone blitz or play man. Goddammit Fewell...

Oh and JPP, I'm excited about him. I almost forgot how much promise he shown me last year. The guy is really going to be something if he just continues to work hard and absorb the defense and get reps in TC.

I'm ticked off that the Eagles got Washburn. Can you imagine what Washburn would've done with JPP?

Man, my pride and joy is our Defense and we have a coordinator thats not utilizing our CBs to their strengths! Its frustrating, Thomas was exposed greatly this yr because he's in zone coverage!!! Hes one of the best upcoming press corners in the NFL and he's playing zone! I don't understand.

JPP- I went to training camp last yr and I watched him exclusively, Reese really nailed this one. Man if he would of went back last yr and come out this yr he would of been a top 5 pick! He's phenomenal and he hustles! Once he gets his technique down pat and the game starts slowing down for him...LOOK OUT! He flashed last yr as a wide eye rookie! smh


Washburn- Look what he did with the titans front 4 and none of those guys have the athleticism that JPP has. Excellent hire by the Eagles.
james

DOMINATEtheline
02-17-2011, 03:50 PM
Bradshaw and LeShoure is what I want

You will have no complaints from me if thats our backfield moving forward. That one two punch should be deadly! I saw you picked Leshoure up in a forum mock! Good job, in round 2 now thats good value!

OSUGiants17
02-17-2011, 08:01 PM
BRADSHAW OUR #1 PRIORITY (http://nygiantsdaily.com/?p=757)

scottyboy
02-17-2011, 08:03 PM
not surprised by that at all. it actually seems like we're focusing on him, will quietly work with smith and boss, and it seems we're going to let cofield go. which would be a damn shame

bigbluedefense
02-18-2011, 07:24 AM
I'm not too worried about Coffield. Think about it guys, he was glaringly mediocre his whole time here, then all of a sudden in his contract year he's a beast? Doesn't that scare any of you?

And doesn't it scare anybody that the team knew full well prior to this year that they had no intention of resigning him and even tried trading him during the draft?

I love his durability and I love how reliable he was, but I worry that his sudden emergence during a contract year is a dangerous sign. I'd resign him, but only for the right price.

Of course, if there's no salary cap, then I could care less about how much we pay him. Break the bank for all I care, it's not my money. I'd want him back with no salary cap.

But with a cap, he's not worth the money he'll command. Remember, he's askign for a lot of money. The only reason why he didn't get traded for NO's 2nd last year (dammit!) was bc they couldn't agree on a contract. He wanted a lot more than they were willing to give him.

So make no mistake, Coffield wants to get paid. The only way I see us agreeing to that is if there's no cap. With a cap, he's just not worth the money he'll command.

Giantsfan1080
02-18-2011, 08:17 AM
I'm actually fine with letting Cofield walk as long as we replace him with a DT in the first 3 rounds of this draft. The talent would be comparbale and it would be much more cost effective if there is a return to the cap.

Damix
02-18-2011, 08:21 AM
I'm actually fine with letting Cofield walk as long as we replace him with a DT in the first 3 rounds of this draft. The talent would be comparbale and it would be much more cost effective if there is a return to the cap.

Ageed, Joseph should be in line for a bigger role as well.

DOMINATEtheline
02-18-2011, 09:56 AM
I agree, Cofield is an above average 4-3 DT and hustles; however, he's not a game changing DT. I appreciate his contribution to our Defense, but its time to move on. I believe sometimes we get enamored with players and are blinded by our loyalty, it took me some time for me to understand this, we need to reload and move on. Man if we would of pulled that trade with the saints I would been ecstatic! Just cause Joseph didn't see the field last yr doesn't make him chop liver, we talking about 6-4 320-325lbs with long arms, as long as he plays with leverage and with low pad level he's going to do some damage. Damn would of loved Jim Washburn to tutor Joseph!

bigbluedefense
02-22-2011, 12:14 PM
I was fortunate enough to get to see the Giants preseason games again. My cousin DVR'd all the games and burned it on a DVD for me.

So I went back and watched them again, bc it's really the only time you get to see our rookies play. And maaan, I tell you what, I know I've said this before, but I didn't really realize how good I think Mich Petrus is going to be until I saw him again in more detail.

He's going to be very good. Koets looked great too. Of course, we won't know what Koets looks like bc of the ACL this year, but I think Petrus and Koets (if healthy) are 2 young building blocks along the oline that we can really hang our hat on.

I'm not sure how the front office feels about them, but I would be very comfortable with those 2 at LG and C moving forward if Koets can recover from his ACL.

Beatty looked terrible. I think we all saw that. But this makes me wonder, with Petrus looking so good and Koets having promise, do the Giants feel we need to overhaul the oline the same way us fans do?

What if the front office feels Beatty will make the jump next year? And what if they believe in Mich and Koets?

We could see a line like this:

LT Beatty
LG Petrus
C Koets
RG Snee
RT Diehl

While that might not look like a sexy oline, our oline was never a sexy group with big names.

Maybe they feel comfortable with this group. I don't know. Something to think about.

Malaka
02-22-2011, 03:27 PM
I share in your Petrus love, however I am not sold on Koets and after the ACL even less so. I think Koets is a decent back-up option, nothing more nothing less.

I do not know what to make of Beatty, but regardless of whether or not he is our future LT, I still want a first round Tackle, someone who can play both LT and RT so if Beatty does pan out we have our RT if he doesn't we have our LT. Thats why I'd love Carimi because even if he doesn't pan out at LT he has the makings of a very good RT, and he fits the Giants lunch pail linemen.

bigbluedefense
02-22-2011, 03:31 PM
Yeah I'm cautious about Koets. I didn't like him at all coming into the season, in fact I thought we should cut him, but then he surprised me during the season.

Koets is never going to be a great Center. But can he be a Shaun O'Hara? Is that good enough or do we go after a real Center?

I just don't know how the front office views it. Me personally, I want us to focus on linebackers in the draft and if we can grab a Carimi in the 1st I'd be ok with that too.

I want a Center too, but with our holes at linebacker, maybe we should roll the dice for another year. I don't know.

Damix
02-22-2011, 03:36 PM
I want a Center too, but with our holes at linebacker, maybe we should roll the dice for another year. I don't know.

This kind of brings up our drafts of the last few years.

Our overall team talent is very high with capable players in every position.

The problem with that, is the only way to upgrade these players is with elite talent. IMO if we can't get a first or second rounder at LB or C, we are not expecting them to be a starter down the line because there just isn't enough PT available to let them develop.

Malaka
02-22-2011, 03:39 PM
I'd love a first round linebacker but I don't value any LB highly enough for the #19 pick, other than Von Miller of course but that ain't happening. Mason Foster is the closest after that but I still wouldn't spend a 1st on him. This team really does need an impact backer, and thankfully those can be had in the 2nd round (David Harris, Curtis Lofton, Jon Beason, and so many more) I think we have a myriad of options at the 19 spot in the 2nd round with Martez Wilson, Bruce Carter, Quan Sturvidant, Nate Irving and Kelvin Sheppard.

bigbluedefense
02-22-2011, 03:48 PM
Here's our dilemma with linebackers. There is no one worth spending the 19th pick on, but at the same time, there are impact players we can draft, they just happen to have early/mid 2nd round grades on em.

The problem is, if we pass on LB in the 1st, the 2 guys I feel are impact players that can deliver for us at LB (Foster and Irving) probably won't be around when we're up at bat in the 2nd.

So what do we do? A move back sounds most logical, but it's not Reese's MO.

Center is another position that doesn't add up value wise at 19. So again, a move back sounds logical.

The only position of need that is worth a top 19 pick at this point is OT. Even DT yields better value later on.

I'm willing to reach for a LB if push comes to shove. I just want a LB bad.

bigbluedefense
02-22-2011, 03:54 PM
In an unrelated note, does anyone else think Kiwi's career is over?

I hope not, bc he's a great guy and he was finally turning the corner. He was gonna be a monster this year. But if I had to guess, I think his career is over.

Neck injuries are tough to come back from, and even after the season was over it was reported that he still wasn't recovered from that neck.

It's a shame, I really liked the guy. He was everything you wanted in a player. Great character, worked hard, team player, never complained, smart, productive, versatile, and early on this year he was becoming a more vocal leader.

Unfortunately for us, I don't see him being in our long term plans, whether he's healed up or not.

Malaka
02-22-2011, 04:16 PM
Well Reese is going to give him that one year deal to prove himself, and honestly that may be his best option coming back from that injury. I always liked him, and he was a solid player, I hope he can pull through and continue on as a rotational DE for us. Moreover, if Kiwi is there maybe it lets fewell get more creative and allow Tuck to line-up at DT sometimes for that awesome interior pass rush that has been under-utilized by Fewell.

I remember people bashing me for trading a 2nd for him when I was the Jets in the forum mock last year, I just knew that this year he was going to break out and he could be great as a 3-4 OLB. It is really unfortunate this happened to him.

OSUGiants17
02-22-2011, 07:26 PM
Vikings tagged Greenway http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/hollywoodmatt86/icon_fu-1-1.png

bigbluedefense
02-23-2011, 07:40 AM
Let's be honest, he was never a realistic option.

AJ Hawk is more realistic than him. Hawk actually had a good year too, he intrigues me a little.

bigbluedefense
02-23-2011, 08:55 AM
This is so awesome. Slow day at work, and I'm breaking down Giants preseason games.

If you guys want to know anything about any player in particular, let me know. Keep in mind I can't realistically tell you about DBs from the TV angle.

DOMINATEtheline
02-24-2011, 08:09 AM
Giantsnation,

The next phase in the pre-draft process has arrived! Enjoy the combine, and lets hope we can set up our pre-draft boards with confidence after this phase.

bigbluedefense
02-24-2011, 09:34 AM
I don't have enough patience to sit and watch all the drills. I'm just gonna focus on the linebackers.

scottyboy
02-24-2011, 01:58 PM
so if the raiders let zach miller hit the open market, how would you guys feel if we brought him in? i love me some zach miller

bigbluedefense
02-24-2011, 01:59 PM
Love Zach Miller. It all depends on if we have a cap or not and how much he'll cost.

As much as I like the guy, there might be cheaper options in the draft, so it really depends on the cap for me personally.

Jughead10
02-24-2011, 02:05 PM
Love Zach Miller. It all depends on if we have a cap or not and how much he'll cost.

As much as I like the guy, there might be cheaper options in the draft, so it really depends on the cap for me personally.

You think he'd cost a lot? I've also always thought he could be a somewhat low cost huge reward signing. He puts up decent production while playing with a collection of the absolute worst QBs known to man over the past 4 years.

bigbluedefense
02-24-2011, 02:09 PM
You think he'd cost a lot? I've also always thought he could be a somewhat low cost huge reward signing. He puts up decent production while playing with a collection of the absolute worst QBs known to man over the past 4 years.

You don't have to tell me, I LOVE Zach Miller. But FAs are always more expensive than they should be, that's the problem.

And I can see teams overspending for him in a relatively weak TE class.

Not to mention I'm less inclined to spend a good chunk of change on a player who won't be used that much in our offense. Again, it all comes down to the CBA for me, if there's no cap, I'm all for it.

But if there is a cap, I'm still for it, but only for the right price. At the end of the day, Miller isn't a seam stretcher type like the Finleys of the world.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-24-2011, 04:45 PM
Shockey took and passed his physical with the Phins.. I wonder if Plax and him are coordinating being down in the M.I.A.

Giantsfan1080
02-24-2011, 04:47 PM
I think Miller would get a big contract on the open market. Look at what Shiancoe got for crying out loud.

bigbluedefense
02-24-2011, 06:24 PM
The way the current contracts are going right now (John Henderson 2 years 8 mill?!) there's no way Miller will be worth his contract if there's a salary cap.

We're going to have to save our money and sign our own guys back, and just build through the draft. No need for outside FAs in that kind of market.

Again, if there's no cap then sure, but with a cap, I think we're gonna have to be more frugal.

Seeing that figure for Henderson makes me question if I even want to resign Boss if there's going to be a cap. Boss is so replaceable, I don't want to pay him big bucks with a cap in place.

bigbluedefense
02-25-2011, 12:37 PM
Coughlin said Center is a position of need.

Sounds like maybe we're going to draft a Center after all?

NY+Giants=NYG
02-25-2011, 01:58 PM
Coughlin said Center is a position of need.

Sounds like maybe we're going to draft a Center after all?

Smoke screen perhaps? I hope not, I want us to draft a center! I wanted Mangold, and now i want this Penn state guy. Give me a stud center, who with our OL coach and in our system, would be a sick player for us.

Forenci
02-25-2011, 03:10 PM
Smoke screen perhaps? I hope not, I want us to draft a center! I wanted Mangold, and now i want this Penn state guy. Give me a stud center, who with our OL coach and in our system, would be a sick player for us.

Wisniewski isn't a stud center, though. He may be there in the second with our pick though. Basically, I see him more of a Shaun O'Hara type. A guy who will never really dominate but plays pretty well for a long time.

If Mike Pouncey is there in the second it would be interesting. There are A LOT of conflicting reports on him, though. Some people think he's his brother (because they're twins) but really they aren't that similar. He lacks strength at the POA and isn't nearly the prospect his brother is. Probably will be over drafted though.

Giantsfan1080
02-25-2011, 03:14 PM
I dont like Pouncey. Stay away please Reese.

scottyboy
02-25-2011, 03:34 PM
pouncey would be fine...at guard. dude can't snap, that's the last thing we need

NY+Giants=NYG
02-25-2011, 03:39 PM
I think it comes down to the prospect and how he would fit in our given system, with our specific pass protections we install, and our position coach and how well he can work with him. So that adds to whether we draft him or not. He may not be the perfect prospect but added to our system given the components i mentioned above, how does he improve or decline based on that. We have a great system, and good pass protection schemes. On top of that we have a great OL coach, who is still here. So I would weight the prospect and give him a grade, and then take that grade and see how it translates to our team, system, and scheme specifically.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-26-2011, 10:44 AM
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=400171
Possibility kiwi wont play again

Giantsfan1080
02-26-2011, 04:38 PM
DE it is then.

Giantsfan1080
02-26-2011, 04:55 PM
Reese said today that Kiwi is medically cleared to play.

BaLLiN
02-26-2011, 05:09 PM
Reese said today that Kiwi is medically cleared to play.

nice, can we please tag and then trade then? this draft isnt amazing, but we just have to fill a few holes in order to be a playoff caliber team. Do you think Kiwi could fetch a 1st because of a weaker class and then have a pick next year based on incentives? I'm thinking we get a 1 and a baseline 4, then with the possibility to get a 3 in next years draft.

Nebula
02-26-2011, 06:07 PM
This is so awesome. Slow day at work, and I'm breaking down Giants preseason games.

If you guys want to know anything about any player in particular, let me know. Keep in mind I can't realistically tell you about DBs from the TV angle.

Ramses Barden?

Giantsfan1080
02-26-2011, 06:10 PM
nice, can we please tag and then trade then? this draft isnt amazing, but we just have to fill a few holes in order to be a playoff caliber team. Do you think Kiwi could fetch a 1st because of a weaker class and then have a pick next year based on incentives? I'm thinking we get a 1 and a baseline 4, then with the possibility to get a 3 in next years draft.

D-Line is the deepest part of this draft and nobody in their right mind will give us a first for an oft injured Kiwi.

LTgiants
02-26-2011, 06:27 PM
It only takes a few hrs to get clearance for Kiwi lol

Bostonblows91
02-27-2011, 12:24 AM
nice, can we please tag and then trade then? this draft isnt amazing, but we just have to fill a few holes in order to be a playoff caliber team. Do you think Kiwi could fetch a 1st because of a weaker class and then have a pick next year based on incentives? I'm thinking we get a 1 and a baseline 4, then with the possibility to get a 3 in next years draft.

something like this would never happen, they will either sign him or get a comp pick next year for letting him walk (Provided the CBA works the same)

BaLLiN
02-27-2011, 10:53 AM
thoughts on Tanard Jackson, Eric Foster, and Manny Lawson?

OSUGiants17
02-27-2011, 11:14 AM
I was looking back at that '07 season...you know who I miss the most? This guy:
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/77549696.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921E86F5CE8BE5D78FB176D9F7DDC89AA57 9BB4DEC734375EBBF33904DE105BA60C

scottyboy
02-27-2011, 02:11 PM
thoughts on Tanard Jackson, Eric Foster, and Manny Lawson?
would be a decent 3rd safety, epic boner city jam, and more of a 3-4 rush backer. wouldn't have much of a place here i believe

BaLLiN
02-27-2011, 06:17 PM
would be a decent 3rd safety, epic boner city jam, and more of a 3-4 rush backer. wouldn't have much of a place here i believe

Yeah, Tanard also played some CB at Syracuse, so i bet we could use him as a nickleback if need be.

I really liked foster when he was coming out, but thought he was a DE not a DT, does he offer much against the run?

And from what i've read from 49ers fans, and another thread about Lawson, he isn't much of a passrusher, but is very good in coverage, setting the edge vs the run, and a better fit for a 4-3 SLB.

Nebula
02-27-2011, 10:34 PM
If you guys want to know anything about any player in particular, let me know. Keep in mind I can't realistically tell you about DBs from the TV angle.

Ramses Barden?

bigbluedefense
02-28-2011, 10:07 AM
Ramses Barden?

Barely played. He had only a couple of snaps in PS game 1 vs the Jets, and was out of the rest of the PS with a back injury.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-01-2011, 12:48 PM
I want a center! I want center! Well, realistically BPA, but a center would make me very happy.

bigbluedefense
03-01-2011, 12:49 PM
I don't want the Center from Penn State. I can't stand prospects from Penn State.

**** Penn State. The Eagles of college football.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-01-2011, 12:57 PM
I don't want the Center from Penn State. I can't stand prospects from Penn State.

**** Penn State. The Eagles of college football.

If he is a good prospect then I don't mind. We have a good OL foundation where we can develop him, and we have a great OL coach. So I am not worried if it's Stefan or pouncy or whoever else. Get me a center!

Forenci
03-01-2011, 01:06 PM
You should be worried because Pouncey isn't that great and Wisniewski is good, but unspectacular player.

Just because we've got a good OLine coach doesn't mean we should overdraft a position of need.

scottyboy
03-01-2011, 01:18 PM
JOE LEFEGED
he ran fast. future special teams aceeeeee

Giantsfan1080
03-01-2011, 01:46 PM
What did he run Scotty?

scottyboy
03-01-2011, 05:45 PM
a 4.43 Zak!

Giantsfan1080
03-01-2011, 06:13 PM
a 4.43 Zak!

That's awesome. Rutgers players usually test really well at the combine.

TheFinisher
03-02-2011, 05:02 PM
A.J. Hawk just hit the market, might be the Mike you guys are looking for.

scottyboy
03-03-2011, 09:06 AM
hixon re-signed. i was kind of just assuming it would happen anyway, but it's official. terms haven't been released I don't think, but it's great to have him back

Giantsfan1080
03-03-2011, 09:52 AM
I guess Hagan, Clayton, and Thomas will not be around next year. I liked the way Thomas was playing on specials.

Bostonblows91
03-03-2011, 02:00 PM
I guess Hagan, Clayton, and Thomas will not be around next year. I liked the way Thomas was playing on specials.

clayton and thomas are both signed through next year i believe, so i wouldn't write them off just yet. Although keeping thomas is probably more likely. He also impressed me on special teams.

bigbluedefense
03-03-2011, 02:04 PM
I like Hagan. I really want to keep Hagan.

BaLLiN
03-03-2011, 11:32 PM
What ever happened to that WR that blew up during our preseason games? He went on IR for something just to stay on the team, do we still have him and if so do we keep him?

Bostonblows91
03-04-2011, 12:57 AM
What ever happened to that WR that blew up during our preseason games? He went on IR for something just to stay on the team, do we still have him and if so do we keep him?

victor cruz, and yes he's still on the team. He got put on IR even though he only had a minor injury to make room for someone (will beatty maybe?). I'm really looking forward to seeing him again.

BaLLiN
03-06-2011, 02:19 PM
are we going to resign smith longterm? id be extremely pissed if not. Even if we do, id definitely want to get Plax in camp, he is such a mismatch for DB's it would definitely benefit Eli as well as the other receivers. (also one of the best WR run blockers I've ever seen)

1. Nicks
2. Smith
3. Manningham
4. Plax
5. Hixon
6(7?).Hagan/Barden/Cruz/Thomas/Clayton

I dont see why we can't bring Plax back, he still has alot of friends on the team, players who frequently visited him and some on here said Coughlin even visited him, i would love to have him back.

With the injuries we had last year, the inconsistency of Nicks and Manningham, It would be nice to have a bigger target that we can ween into a bigger role. Barden hasn't showed us anything yet, and all things are pointing toward him being a dud. Also with Pascoe's versatility (TE and FB) we could save a roster spot for another WR. Cruz and Thomas are the guys id keep, although Hagan is usually consistent.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-06-2011, 03:30 PM
He was a headache when he was here. I think while he has friends, I don't see him wanting to come back. I can see him in Miami or maybe with the Panthers, with Shockey. Probably wants to be near better weather and closer to Miami for the offseason. I think Reese is playing the PC answer by saying we will investigate all options, but I highly doubt we have any intention of bringing Plax back.

bigbluedefense
03-07-2011, 07:50 AM
I'd like him back. Look at Vick, give a guy 2 years and you get rewarded for it.

What's the worst that can happen? He'll get a tiny contract and if he's a pain, you cut him. I think he's going to be motivated to be great again.

And while I'm sure he's lost some speed, you can't teach size. And he knows how to use his size too. I think he'd be at the very least a great redzone threat.

I'd like for us to bring him back. I'm guessing we don't though.

Bostonblows91
03-07-2011, 01:21 PM
are we going to resign smith longterm? id be extremely pissed if not. Even if we do, id definitely want to get Plax in camp, he is such a mismatch for DB's it would definitely benefit Eli as well as the other receivers. (also one of the best WR run blockers I've ever seen)

1. Nicks
2. Smith
3. Manningham
4. Plax
5. Hixon
6(7?).Hagan/Barden/Cruz/Thomas/Clayton

I dont see why we can't bring Plax back, he still has alot of friends on the team, players who frequently visited him and some on here said Coughlin even visited him, i would love to have him back.

With the injuries we had last year, the inconsistency of Nicks and Manningham, It would be nice to have a bigger target that we can ween into a bigger role. Barden hasn't showed us anything yet, and all things are pointing toward him being a dud. Also with Pascoe's versatility (TE and FB) we could save a roster spot for another WR. Cruz and Thomas are the guys id keep, although Hagan is usually consistent.

we absolutely do not need him. I also disagree with nicks/MM being inconsistent. MM shined when nicks and smith went down, beating some pro bowl corners week in and week out to boot. I wouldn't even be that upset if we didn't bring smith back, he's a great receiver but we'd be set even without him

Jughead10
03-07-2011, 01:23 PM
we absolutely do not need him. I also disagree with nicks/MM being inconsistent. MM shined when nicks and smith went down, beating some pro bowl corners week in and week out to boot. I wouldn't even be that upset if we didn't bring smith back, he's a great receiver but we'd be set even without him

Mario Manningham does one thing. But he does it really well. Run in a straight line and go up and get he ball. We need Smith. He's the only real player Eli can trust to be in the right place at the right time. Mario is great to have on the team, but he's a complimentary piece. If we're going to continue to run the same offense, we might want to pay attention to those wonderlic scores a bit more.

Giantsfan1080
03-07-2011, 01:38 PM
No we need Smith back. End of story.

Bostonblows91
03-07-2011, 02:04 PM
Mario Manningham does one thing. But he does it really well. Run in a straight line and go up and get he ball. We need Smith. He's the only real player Eli can trust to be in the right place at the right time. Mario is great to have on the team, but he's a complimentary piece. If we're going to continue to run the same offense, we might want to pay attention to those wonderlic scores a bit more.

have you watched all his games? >.> He's a beast when they give it to him on the screen, and how is he a complimentary piece? He went over 100 yards when nicks & smith were both down, who is he complimenting? Derek hagan XD. His route running really improved from last year to this past year. Wonderlic isn't even relevant.

Jughead10
03-07-2011, 02:53 PM
have you watched all his games? >.> He's a beast when they give it to him on the screen, and how is he a complimentary piece? He went over 100 yards when nicks & smith were both down, who is he complimenting? Derek hagan XD. His route running really improved from last year to this past year. Wonderlic isn't even relevant.

Mario's route running have improved? From dreadful to awful? I apologize he does two things well. Go routes and screens. He's a great #3 WR. But we cannot count on him to run all the routes that Smith does. Derek Hagan is complimentary as well. Further down the list. But he has value as well because he plays specials too. We should have never let him go to begin with. There is probably room for both of them considering rosters are likely to expand. But bottom line is we need Smith. Mario Manningham is not a suitable replacement for him.

Bostonblows91
03-07-2011, 03:00 PM
Mario's route running have improved? From dreadful to awful? I apologize he does two things well. Go routes and screens. He's a great #3 WR. But we cannot count on him to run all the routes that Smith does. Derek Hagan is complimentary as well. Further down the list. But he has value as well because he plays specials too. We should have never let him go to begin with. There is probably room for both of them considering rosters are likely to expand. But bottom line is we need Smith. Mario Manningham is not a suitable replacement for him.

who even said MM would replace smith, smith does work in the slot & on 3rd down. I just meant i'd like to see what nicks and MM can do without smith getting 70-100 catches a year. I don't see how you can downgrade MM so much though, he's a 1k receiver. Bottom line.

BaLLiN
03-07-2011, 11:40 PM
No one is saying Mario isn't a good receiver, he's inconsistent and limited. Those are two valid statements considering he is inconsistent with his route running, his hands, and his blocking. He does have a limited route tree, but this last year i do think that with the added playing time he has become more experienced in that area, he still isn't nearly as effective as he is in screens and flys.

He's a gamebreaker, but he is not a guy i'd like to put out there in a complicated offense especially for receivers and rely on him to do all of the things required for a starting receiver.

Nicks, for a guy who has huge hands and amazing ability, looked like he was thinking too much and dropping easy balls, making moves before he caught the ball, those things aren't helpful to a quarterback. It was his first year, and he did amazing, he is going to be great, he just needs a counterpart.

Edit:
How stupid will we look if we dont resign smith?

Bostonblows91
03-08-2011, 12:40 AM
Smith will be re-signed, we'll probably overpay him. Is he really worth #1 money? He's had quite a few injury problems since coming into the league, he had a great year in 09, sure. But he failed to even reach 600 yards any of his other years. Not to mention the injury he's coming off of is pretty serious. Hopefully it'll be an incentive-laden contract.

Giantsfan1080
03-08-2011, 08:29 AM
He won't get #1 money.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2011, 11:54 AM
The sad thing is, I think in a simpler offense, like a WCO, Mario would be a stud. He does this well in our complex offense, can you imagine how good he could be if they simplified things for him?

He has potential to be our best WR bc he's the fastest, but realistically that won't happen bc our offense is just too complicated for him.

I can see him thriving elsewhere. For us, he's a solid #3 WR, but you can't rely on him on every snap.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-08-2011, 05:24 PM
I agree... Our system puts up stats, but I wish for something else. I think we have the talent to do even better and be MORE consistent.

Bostonblows91
03-09-2011, 01:34 AM
The sad thing is, I think in a simpler offense, like a WCO, Mario would be a stud. He does this well in our complex offense, can you imagine how good he could be if they simplified things for him?

He has potential to be our best WR bc he's the fastest, but realistically that won't happen bc our offense is just too complicated for him.

I can see him thriving elsewhere. For us, he's a solid #3 WR, but you can't rely on him on every snap.

agreed, i've been watching him for 5 years, the only down year he really had was 09 where he had the dropsies. One more solid year and i think you can erase the unreliable tag, he only made one "WTF" play this year.

bigbluedefense
03-09-2011, 05:19 AM
agreed, i've been watching him for 5 years, the only down year he really had was 09 where he had the dropsies. One more solid year and i think you can erase the unreliable tag, he only made one "WTF" play this year.

He gets a bad rep for being a dumbass. And let's be honest, he rounds out his cuts a lot, but he's so fast he can get away with it.

He should be our DeSean Jackson, but he's not bc of the system. That's another reason why I was open to a coaching change, I want to see us run a simpler offense.

I know this is revisionist history on my part, but Ron Rivera would've been a great choice. Still a John Fox fan as well.

But anyway, what's done is done. Thankfully we seem to be deep at WR (when healthy) so if we do lose Mario in the future, it won't be that bad for us.

bigbluedefense
03-09-2011, 05:42 AM
Also lulz @ Tiki Barber. I love how he's getting thrown under the bus for being the phony fraud that he is.

Jughead10
03-09-2011, 08:01 AM
He gets a bad rep for being a dumbass. And let's be honest, he rounds out his cuts a lot, but he's so fast he can get away with it.

He should be our DeSean Jackson, but he's not bc of the system. That's another reason why I was open to a coaching change, I want to see us run a simpler offense.

I know this is revisionist history on my part, but Ron Rivera would've been a great choice. Still a John Fox fan as well.

But anyway, what's done is done. Thankfully we seem to be deep at WR (when healthy) so if we do lose Mario in the future, it won't be that bad for us.

I would not have liked Rivera at all. Somethings not right with him. The way he's been totally ignored so many times. And the only team to finally give him a chance is the Panthers, and there main goal in a coach was most likely to pay him as little as possible.

bigbluedefense
03-09-2011, 08:07 AM
I would not have liked Rivera at all. Somethings not right with him. The way he's been totally ignored so many times. And the only team to finally give him a chance is the Panthers, and there main goal in a coach was most likely to pay him as little as possible.

He's hispanic. Old rich white owners stuck in the dark ages are skeptical of such madness.

I disliked him bc I thought he was a Cover 2 guy, but he's actually going to run Jim Johnson's 46.

Carolina gets a bad rep for being cheap (which they are), but they're also smart. They believe in defensive head coaches, and they believe in hiring assistants who put in their due. It's the right formula for success. Look at all the successful HCs lately: Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, Mike McCarthy, Steve Spagnuolo, TomTom.

All assistants who put in their due. It's the right formula.

The sexy HC is usually more hype than substance. Look at Shannahan.

Jughead10
03-09-2011, 08:13 AM
He's hispanic. Old rich white owners stuck in the dark ages are skeptical of such madness.

I don't buy that for a second. I'm sure there are a few owners like that, but enough African American coaches have been hired over the past several years that I don't think this was the issue.

bigbluedefense
03-09-2011, 08:24 AM
I don't buy that for a second. I'm sure there are a few owners like that, but enough African American coaches have been hired over the past several years that I don't think this was the issue.

The Rooney Rule is a joke. Look at what Jerry Jones did this year. That was embarassing.

Raheem Morris, Leslie Frazier, Ron Rivera, Lovie Smith, what do they all have in common? They were hired largely bc ownership wanted to save money.

Ultimately though, Ron just needed to build his resume up. Some guys have to work harder for the same thing, that's all. We really haven't seen that many minority coaches until the past 3 or so years, and Ron was a hot item in 06, that was 5 years ago. He had to build up his hype back to that level.

The only reason why I disliked him was bc I thought he'd bring Lovie's Cover 2 to whatever team hired him. But he's not. And he's a tough stern guy, not a player's coach. Which is what I like, I don't like the pat on the back happy go lucky player coaches.

That's one thing I like about Coughlin. He's tough.

bigbluedefense
03-09-2011, 08:30 AM
I don't really know who would replace Coughlin at this point. I'm sure there's always up and coming assistants, but I have no idea who they are. I'm still not sold on Cowher.

It's so obvious though that Cowher wants the Giants gig. He might as well just come out and say it at this point.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-09-2011, 03:12 PM
A very young coach for the next one... A coach somewhere between players coach and Coughlin. Middle ground..

DOMINATEtheline
03-10-2011, 08:55 AM
The sad thing is, I think in a simpler offense, like a WCO, Mario would be a stud. He does this well in our complex offense, can you imagine how good he could be if they simplified things for him?


He has potential to be our best WR bc he's the fastest, but realistically that won't happen bc our offense is just too complicated for him.

I can see him thriving elsewhere. For us, he's a solid #3 WR, but you can't rely on him on every snap.

Good Morning,

You hit it right on the head! Any above average OC would have this offense rolling regardless of injuries. Look how Beckhum was or wasn't utilized during the last quarter of the season? You give Beckhum to S. Payton or N. Turner he would be consistently be matched up with LBs and causing chaos...Are the Saints or Chargers offensive personnel better than ours? NO! Its all about the Coordinators....

I don't argue with people about our OC no more, they seem to be stuck on stats instead of understanding that playing to the strengths of your personnel seems to be something foreign to the offensive coaching staff which will lead to creating consistent offense for 4 quarters not one half or one quarter.

Mannigham in any other offense with his respective deficiencies would 70 catch 1200 yds guy. He would get the ball in space in so many different ways. SMFH

This is one of the reasons, I care so much about fielding an elite defense and solid special teams with a good return game; My dream for 2011 and beyond....

What you think BBD?

Mannigham

OSUGiants17
03-18-2011, 09:46 PM
Tuck plans to talk to Asomugha about joining Giants: report

March 18 New York Post

"While the lockout prevents teams from talking to players, it won't stop Justin Tuck from doing some recruiting.

The Giants defensive end said Tuesday night that he plans on talking to Raiders cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha about coming to New York.

"New York City is the place to be and that draws on its own, and plus we are a team that hasn't gotten over the [hump] and a player like him would definitely help do so," Tuck told ESPN.com.

The Jets could also be interested in Asomugha; him and Darrelle Revis are friends and have spoken in the past about joining forces. But they have a slew of free agents that they may look to re-sign, including another cornerback Antonio Cromartie, before Asomugha becomes an issue. Asomugha's Raiders contract was voided when he failed to reach certain incentives."

Giantsfan1080
03-18-2011, 09:58 PM
I'm sure a player from every team is talking to Asomugha.

bigbluedefense
03-19-2011, 06:21 AM
He's not coming here. We can't afford him anyway.

Cornerback is not the issue, we need a linebacker. I'd be willing to trade our 1st and a player for Lawrence Timmons if the Steelers were willing to listen.

But that's never going to happen bc we'd never think to do it, plus the Steelers wouldn't trade him even if they can't afford to resign him after this year.

OSUGiants17
03-19-2011, 01:38 PM
Not saying I want him or we will get him just simply posting an article. If we got him then TT would be pushed to Nickle or traded which I am against. Tuck should be talking to LBs out there not players that we don't truly need or have the money for

Rosebud
03-19-2011, 10:13 PM
Good Morning,

You hit it right on the head! Any above average OC would have this offense rolling regardless of injuries. Look how Beckhum was or wasn't utilized during the last quarter of the season? You give Beckhum to S. Payton or N. Turner he would be consistently be matched up with LBs and causing chaos...Are the Saints or Chargers offensive personnel better than ours? NO! Its all about the Coordinators....

I don't argue with people about our OC no more, they seem to be stuck on stats instead of understanding that playing to the strengths of your personnel seems to be something foreign to the offensive coaching staff which will lead to creating consistent offense for 4 quarters not one half or one quarter.

Mannigham in any other offense with his respective deficiencies would 70 catch 1200 yds guy. He would get the ball in space in so many different ways. SMFH

This is one of the reasons, I care so much about fielding an elite defense and solid special teams with a good return game; My dream for 2011 and beyond....

What you think BBD?

Mannigham

While I love to ***** about Killdrive I can't agree with the idea that his problem wasn't utilizing Mario Manningham, the kid's extremely explosive, but he's also still so raw as a route runner and we just couldn't trust him with this offense any more than we had to. Now I also disagree with killdrive's need for an excessively complex passing system with as many young receivers as we have, but that's a mistake made in the offseason. One thing, if we keep Killdrive and Steve Smith can stay healthy he could put up HOF numbers catching passes from Eli. SS is probably the perfect receiver for this system out of any young receiver out there simply because of how well he reads the field and how well he and eli can stay on the same page in this stupidly confusing offense. I think Nicks has the instincts to become great in it to, he still clearly has some room to grow.

I guess there's no point to that textual ejaculation other than, the offense is a cool idea that we just were in no position to run given what was happening with our personnel and that is absolutely on Killdrive, which is what infuriates me. If we had a team full of Steve Smith's and strong OL I'd be for it, even though I do agree that Killdrive does a **** job of utilizing some guys, but we don't we had young inexperienced Hakeem Nicks, young inexperienced and possibly ******** Mario Manningham and a young completely inexperienced Ramses Barden to go with our one steve Smith. That's just bad management and planning.

Rosebud
03-19-2011, 10:19 PM
Not saying I want him or we will get him just simply posting an article. If we got him then TT would be pushed to Nickle or traded which I am against. Tuck should be talking to LBs out there not players that we don't truly need or have the money for

I'd want him, we'd be playing a lot of nickel again, but TT is as good of a DB as your going to find to be a pseudo-backer. If there were a stud LB out there I'd be all for it but other than poossible Harris who can we get who'd be a bigger upgrade than Aso? Not that I expect us to actually shell out the money it'd take to get Aso, but if it were an option it would be our best option. With Aso and Webster we could basically play man on the outside all game with just a single safety high for support and not have to worry about teams beating us deep provided we used the extra player those two would free up to fill in the holes down the middle or get pressure to actually get through throughout a game.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-22-2011, 03:41 PM
Fun note, I just learned the other day that I work with Adrian Tracy's mom. Super nice lady, I'm gonna try to cop some Giants tickets, lol, if he's still on the roster next year that is.

bigbluedefense
03-22-2011, 04:14 PM
Fun note, I just learned the other day that I work with Adrian Tracy's mom. Super nice lady, I'm gonna try to cop some Giants tickets, lol, if he's still on the roster next year that is.

I think he would make the team. He was actually pretty impressive during training camp, I was pleasantly surprised.

He looked better than Sintim did quite honestly. Something's gotta give with our LB core, I'm sure we're going to draft a couple more and we have so many JAGs on the roster, I'm sure we'll lose a couple.

I'm sure Wilkinson is toast. And Bulluck is gone. So I guess that opens the door for 1 or 2 more linebackers on the roster.

Forenci
03-22-2011, 05:06 PM
I think he would make the team. He was actually pretty impressive during training camp, I was pleasantly surprised.

He looked better than Sintim did quite honestly. Something's gotta give with our LB core, I'm sure we're going to draft a couple more and we have so many JAGs on the roster, I'm sure we'll lose a couple.

I'm sure Wilkinson is toast. And Bulluck is gone. So I guess that opens the door for 1 or 2 more linebackers on the roster.

I'm not so sure about Wilkinson. As much as we may hate to admit, the guy is a very good special teams players, and we all know how Coughlin has a hard on for players who do well on specials.

Speaking of which, we really need to get our entire special teams unit sorted out. We haven't had a dynamic kick/punter returner in what seems like ages, if ever. That and we can't tackle anyone when it matters (Desean).

SeanTaylorRIP
03-22-2011, 05:08 PM
I think both Tracy and Sintim are not great fits for your defensive scheme but you can definitely work with them.

BaLLiN
03-22-2011, 09:57 PM
I think both Tracy and Sintim are not great fits for your defensive scheme but you can definitely work with them.

Sintim is a DE, In Al Groh's system he was essentially used as that if not just floating around. In a 3-4 that is something you might have the option to do, but you can't rush a OLB on all downs, and when he is in coverage, it can't always be zone. He just doesn't have the fluidity to play man well, he is decent at zone.

Tracy i haven't seen much of, but from what i saw in his college tape, i thought of a more stiff version of sintim. I think he'll still be a ST player.

bigbluedefense
03-23-2011, 07:14 AM
Sintim did fit Spag's defense. He liked using a DE/OLB hybrid as his SAM in his system.

He doesn't fit Fewell's system at all though.

Bostonblows91
03-23-2011, 01:54 PM
This new kickoff rule will probably reduce our fumbles by 25%!

DOMINATEtheline
03-24-2011, 11:56 AM
While I love to ***** about Killdrive I can't agree with the idea that his problem wasn't utilizing Mario Manningham, the kid's extremely explosive, but he's also still so raw as a route runner and we just couldn't trust him with this offense any more than we had to. Now I also disagree with killdrive's need for an excessively complex passing system with as many young receivers as we have, but that's a mistake made in the offseason. One thing, if we keep Killdrive and Steve Smith can stay healthy he could put up HOF numbers catching passes from Eli. SS is probably the perfect receiver for this system out of any young receiver out there simply because of how well he reads the field and how well he and eli can stay on the same page in this stupidly confusing offense. I think Nicks has the instincts to become great in it to, he still clearly has some room to grow.

I guess there's no point to that textual ejaculation other than, the offense is a cool idea that we just were in no position to run given what was happening with our personnel and that is absolutely on Killdrive, which is what infuriates me. If we had a team full of Steve Smith's and strong OL I'd be for it, even though I do agree that Killdrive does a **** job of utilizing some guys, but we don't we had young inexperienced Hakeem Nicks, young inexperienced and possibly ******** Mario Manningham and a young completely inexperienced Ramses Barden to go with our one steve Smith. That's just bad management and planning.


I agree mostly on all your points, Manningham has those deficiencies, I think if he worked on his craft seriously and ran precise routes he could be Chad Johnson before he became a hasbeen. Chad Johnson before his OCHOCINCO persona came along was so explosive, I think Mannigham has the sneaky footspeed he had. More importantly, a consistent offense is like wishing on star.....

Big_Pete
03-27-2011, 02:34 AM
I don't think Sintim is a good fit for our system, I think we should look at trading him for and extra pick. I could see teams like New England and Houston being very interested. Alternatively we could consider using Sintim's value to trade up.

As far as overhauling our LBs this offseason, I think we are going to have to do it through free agency and draft for the future. (and this is our top free agency need in my opinion, needing two LBs)

Ideally I would like to see us pick up Barrett Ruud and Rocky McIntosh as free agents and draft a couple of guys who could fit our system like Chris Carter and Colin McCarthy to groom for the future.

That would give us a LB corps something like:

SLB: Rocky McIntosh, Chris Carter

MLB: Barrett Ruud, Jon Goff

WLB: Michael Boley, Colin McCarthy, Phillip Dillard

Bostonblows91
03-27-2011, 11:51 AM
I don't think Sintim is a good fit for our system, I think we should look at trading him for and extra pick. I could see teams like New England and Houston being very interested. Alternatively we could consider using Sintim's value to trade up.

As far as overhauling our LBs this offseason, I think we are going to have to do it through free agency and draft for the future. (and this is our top free agency need in my opinion, needing two LBs)

Ideally I would like to see us pick up Barrett Ruud and Rocky McIntosh as free agents and draft a couple of guys who could fit our system like Chris Carter and Colin McCarthy to groom for the future.

That would give us a LB corps something like:

SLB: Rocky McIntosh, Chris Carter

MLB: Barrett Ruud, Jon Goff

WLB: Michael Boley, Colin McCarthy, Phillip Dillard

This would be a nice overhaul, i really don't think sintim has ANY trade value anymore. Probably a 6th rounder tops. I'd also like to see martez wilson or greg jones or someone like that.

BaLLiN
03-27-2011, 02:15 PM
This would be a nice overhaul, i really don't think sintim has ANY trade value anymore. Probably a 6th rounder tops. I'd also like to see martez wilson or greg jones or someone like that.

what..? why does his value go down soo much? He was once considered a first round pick value, and we got him in the early second with the pick from the saints for shockey. Its not that he hasn't produced, he did show some promise as a rookie, but he was injured last season.

He is worthy of at least a 4th rounder, i could see 3rd easily.

Big_Pete
03-27-2011, 05:20 PM
what..? why does his value go down soo much? He was once considered a first round pick value, and we got him in the early second with the pick from the saints for shockey. Its not that he hasn't produced, he did show some promise as a rookie, but he was injured last season.

He is worthy of at least a 4th rounder, i could see 3rd easily.

I agree, Sintim has value for a 3-4 team, top of the list would be Houston, Arizona and New England.

I could see any giving a 3rd round pick for him. Sure he hasn't been a good fit in out 4-3, but he is a very good option as a 3-4 OLB.

Both Arizona and Houston badly need help at OLB for their 3-4 and a guy like Sintim is much better than any of the options available in the 3rd round and allows them to consider other needs earlier. The Pats are in a similar position, but they also have close ties with Al Groh and the Pats were reportedly high on Sintim in the draft.

I could see the Cardinals, Houston or New England be willing to give up 69, 73 or 74 to get Sintim.

Malaka
03-27-2011, 05:36 PM
A 3rd rounder for Sintim? That's just way too optimistic. Yeah the guy has potential and is still young, but he hasn't produced at all, and couldn't grab the starting spot last year before his injury.

I'd say a 4th rounder at best, but more likely a 5th round pick for Clint. I really like him, but with Spags gone we just don't have a need for the attacking JOKER position.

I think we should trade Sintim, or just end the LB experiment and groom him as a pass rush specialist. We honestly screwed Kiwi's career, I don't wanna see us do that to a guy again.

On a side note, Kiwi could have been an amazing defensive end if we just let him stay there; it's too bad we couldn't do to Kiwi what we have been doing with Pierre-Paul. I think, correct me if I am wrong, Strahan even said Kiwi was better than Tuck and Umenyiora from a pure skill standpoint. I am sad that Kiwi's career is in jeopardy just as he was coming into his own =(

bigbluedefense
03-29-2011, 11:25 AM
I feel awful for Kiwi. I love the guy. He's everything you want in a football player. High character, team player, smart, talented, the whole 9.

I really hope he can recover.

BaLLiN
03-29-2011, 06:46 PM
any news on Ahmad, Smith, or Kiwi?

NY+Giants=NYG
04-11-2011, 10:20 AM
Re-sign Bradshaw! Come on! Please! Do it! Do it!

bigbluedefense
05-05-2011, 07:31 AM
Is it too early to talk about FA?

Anybody have any names in mind? I don't want us going after any FA LBs bc I dont want us stuck with another mediocre LB on contract for however many years.

I wouldn't mind another DT for depth, some olinemen as well. I rather have DWill than Bradshaw at RB as well.

Giantsfan1080
05-05-2011, 07:57 AM
OL depth. I think Williams will be too expensive but we'll see.

OSUGiants17
05-08-2011, 10:34 AM
As long as Tulloch and Poz don't have 1st round tenders I say we go after them.

BaLLiN
05-08-2011, 05:20 PM
As long as Tulloch and Poz don't have 1st round tenders I say we go after them.

hasn't poz been injured to end the season for 3 straight years?

Big_Pete
05-15-2011, 08:46 PM
Here is my latest thinking on what I would like to see the Giants roster shape up.

(Note I am expecting no salary cap this year with 4 years eligibility for UFA)

Offense
QB: Eli Manning, Sage Rosenfels
RB: Brandon Jacobs, Michael Bush (Raiders), Danny Ware/ Da'Rel Scott
FB: Vonta Leach (Texans)
WR: Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, Ramsees Barden, Jerrell Jernigan, Domenik Hixon/ Victor Cruz/ Devin Thomas
TE: Kevin Boss, Travis Beckum, Bear Pascoe
LT: David Diehl, James Brewer
LG: Rich Seubert, Mitch Petrus
C: Shaun O'Hara, Adam Koets/ Tim Barnes (UDFA)
RG: Chris Snee, Kevin Boothe
RT: Kareem McKenzie, Will Beatty

Defense
LDE: Justin Tuck, Matthias Kiwanuka
UT: Barry Cofield, Marvin Austin
NT: Chris Canty, Linval Joseph
RDE: Osi Umenyiora, Jason Pierre-Paul
SLB: Michael Boley, Clint Sintim/ Adrian Tracy
MLB: Jon Goff, Greg Jones
WLB: Thomas Howard (Raiders), Phillip Dillard/ Mark Herzlich (UDFA), Jacquian Williams
CB1: Corey Webster, Aaron Ross, Bruce Johnson/ Ryan Jones (UDFA)
CB2: Terrell Thomas, Prince Amukamara
SS: Kenny Phillips, Tyler Sash
FS: Antrell Rolle, Dashon Goldson (49ers), Jason Allen (Texans)/ Deunta Williams (UDFA)

Special Teams
LS: Zak DeOssie
K: Lawrence Tynes
P: Matt Dodge


Notes

Shawn Andrews is worth $6.5m this year, this money can be reinvested to resign Cofield. This allows us to cut Bernard (using that money to keep Kiwanuka ie $2.95m + his $1.91m tender).

Howard can play either OLB spot, he is faster and more athletic than Boley (who can also play both OLB spots). Both give us tremendous speed and athleticism outside. This gives Fewell an ideal pair of OLBs for his Tampa 2.

Goff is a solid MLB, particularly on running downs. Howard and Boley are ideal LBs on passing downs and Sintim can be in the mix on running downs at SLB.

LTgiants
05-15-2011, 09:01 PM
So you are plans are

Letting Bradshaw go to replace him with Bush

Resigning Cofield

Picking up Herzleich from the UFL

Signing 3 Safeties and another CB

and finally adding nobody else to the Oline for depth

The only things I can say I like are Vonta Leach and Thomas Howard.

Edit:

also I doubt we are going to keep 8 Wr's that seems like a little much

Big_Pete
05-15-2011, 09:39 PM
So you are plans are

Letting Bradshaw go to replace him with Bush

Resigning Cofield

Picking up Herzleich from the UFL

Signing 3 Safeties and another CB

and finally adding nobody else to the Oline for depth

The only things I can say I like are Vonta Leach and Thomas Howard.

Edit:

also I doubt we are going to keep 8 Wr's that seems like a little much

you missed the point of some of the depth positions, multiple players competing for one spot. Total of 6 WRs, 5 CB, 5 safeties.

Bush will be cheaper than Bradshaw and has better ball security

Unless we spring for a stud Oline, the options will not be much better than the guys we currently have. The key will be our guys getting healthy, which seems to be the case. We have good young guys developing who should improve. This group is actually still quite good.

LTgiants
05-15-2011, 09:45 PM
you missed the point of some of the depth positions, multiple players competing for one spot. Total of 6 WRs, 5 CB, 5 safeties

no matter

You listed 8 WR's. I get it you would cut 2 before the season starts I understood that but I think even still that is to many guys cause not all of them are going to get looks. 5 CB I didn't have much issue taking a chance on the UDFA CB.

Signing 3 safeties and adding Herzlich while pretty much ignoring O Line Depth all together was more of a issue with your roster idea then something like your Bradshaw-Bush swap.

Damix
05-15-2011, 09:50 PM
You listed 8 WR's. I get it you would cut 2 before the season starts I understood that but I think even still that is to many guys cause not all of them are going to get looks. 5 CB I didn't have much issue taking a chance on the UDFA CB.

Signing 3 safeties and adding Herzlich while pretty much ignoring O Line Depth all together was more of a issue with your roster idea then something like your Bradshaw-Bush swap.


I think he meant the '/'s as "ors" and the commas as "ands"

Right?

LTgiants
05-15-2011, 09:53 PM
I think he meant the '/'s as "ors" and the commas as "ands"

Right?

Maybe I guess that makes more sense

BaLLiN
05-16-2011, 05:31 PM
QB: Eli Manning, Sage Rosenfels, Jim Sorgi, Ryan Perriloux
RB: Ahmad Bradshaw, Brandon Jacobs, Danny Ware, Da'Rell Scott, Charles Scott, Darius Reynaud, Martel Mallet
FB: Madison Hedgecock
TE: Kevin Boss, Bear Pascoe, Travis Beckum, Jake Ballard
WR: Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, Domenik Hixon, Victor Cruz, Jerrel Jernigan, Ramses Barden, Devin Thomas, Derek Hagan, Mike Clayton, Duke Calhoun, Todd Watkins, Samuel Giguere

LT: Shawn Andrews, Will Beatty
LG: David Diehl, Rich Seubert, Mitch Petrus
C: Shaun O'Hara, Adam Koets, Jim Cordle
RG: Chris Snee,Kevin Boothe
RT: Kareem McKenzie, James Brewer, Jamon Meredith, Ikechuku Ndukwe

DE: Justin Tuck, Mathias Kiwanuka, Dave Tollefson, Alex Hall
UT: Barry Cofield, Marvin Austin, Rocky Bernard, Dwayne Hendricks
NT: Chris Canty, Linval Joseph
DE: Osi Umenyiora, Jason Pierre-Paul, Ayanga Okpokowuruk

SLB: Clint Sintim, Keith Bulluck, Jacquian Williams, Adrian Tracy, Zak DeOssie
MLB: Jonathan Goff (SLB), Chase Blackburn, Greg Jones, Phillip Dillard
WLB: Michael Boley, Gerris Wilkinson, Kenny Ingram

CB: Corey Webster, Terrell Thomas, Prince Amukamara, Aaron Ross, Bruce Johnson, Michael Coe, Brian Jackson, Cary Harris, Brian Witherspoon , Woodny Turrene
FS: Antrel Rolle, Michael Johnson, Joe Burnett
SS: Kenny Phillips, Deon Grant, Tyler Sash, Chad Jones

K: Lawrence Tynes
P: Matt Dodge

FA SIGNINGS:

Anthony Adams CHI
Ricky Williams MIA
Kamerion Wimbley OAK
Jake Kirkpatrick UFA (TCU)
Joe Lefeged UFA (Rutgers)

_yellow__= active players
__blue_= lost in free agency
_lime__= practice squad
_red__= cut
_sienna__= traded
_magenta__= injured reserve

HEISMANHERSCHEL
05-16-2011, 10:43 PM
Wow. Looking at your lineup, the Giants have so much freakin talent.

I wish my favorite team's fourth corner was Aaron Ross. It just seems crazy to me that he is fourth on a depth chart.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-17-2011, 06:47 AM
Wow. Looking at your lineup, the Giants have so much freakin talent.

I wish my favorite team's fourth corner was Aaron Ross. It just seems crazy to me that he is fourth on a depth chart.

Talent was never an issue, coaching was, specifically defensive side of the ball..

DCs during the Coughlin era which started in 2004-2005 season, when Eli got drafted.


Tim Lewis DC OC Hufangel
Spags Gilbride
Sheridan
Fewell

If we can actually retain a DC who is good or stop hiring 1 year wonders, we may actually do some things. Oh, and I know injuries are part of the game, but can we stop having them ALL at one position?

Last year OL and WR.. Prior it was RB, and then before DE, CB and LB.

I understand a mix of injuries, but when a whole unit gets wiped out that's horrible luck, and it happens way too much for us. Factor in bad DC and our talent rarely gets maximized. The one time it did, we won a superbowl.

Rosebud
05-17-2011, 05:19 PM
I think you're overstating Bushpenis, if he's fully healthy I could see him winning the starting FB spot, but him and Pascoe will battle for it if he's healthy enough. Either way i'm not sure we don't just go with the kid who came in and was a true hammer for us as a first time FB.

Also think you're drastically under-rating Ramses Barden, you've got 3 guys ahead of him who didn't play for the Giants last season and I highly doubt Jernigan, Cruz and Hixon all are higher on the depth chart, especially if Barden comes back playing the way he did the game he got hurt.

Along the OL there's just no way I see the team breaking camp with Andrews as our starting LT, with McKenzie on the right we have enough back worries at OT and Beatty is the guy the team clearly expects to make a big step along the OL. He'll have to fight for the starting job but I just can't imagine him not winning it. Also think that O'Hara's just done for good and we'll have 69 and Koets fight for the starting Center spot but there atleast it's possible that old man O'Hara can glue himself back together.

No really disagreements about the D although I do think Kiwi will be back on a one year deal, just a gut feeling on that one though.

Big_Pete
05-17-2011, 05:21 PM
I think he meant the '/'s as "ors" and the commas as "ands"

Right?

That was the intent, should have made it clearer. my apologies

Rosebud
05-17-2011, 05:21 PM
Wow. Looking at your lineup, the Giants have so much freakin talent.

I wish my favorite team's fourth corner was Aaron Ross. It just seems crazy to me that he is fourth on a depth chart.

I'm not sure he'll start the year as our #4, but with how often he gets hurt it's pretty much a matter of time until we need Prince to step in. I really wish Ross didn't get hurt so much, he does a great job reading the ball in the air, is a tough physical dude and despite not having the best hips does a great job of making receivers make tough catches to beat him. Alas he'll almost certainly be let go next summer and then probably go on to some other team where he'll proceed to stay healthy and become a long time starter.

Big_Pete
05-17-2011, 05:27 PM
I'm not sure he'll start the year as our #4, but with how often he gets hurt it's pretty much a matter of time until we need Prince to step in. I really wish Ross didn't get hurt so much, he does a great job reading the ball in the air, is a tough physical dude and despite not having the best hips does a great job of making receivers make tough catches to beat him. Alas he'll almost certainly be let go next summer and then probably go on to some other team where he'll proceed to stay healthy and become a long time starter.

I have a lot of time for Ross, but injuries have been a problem. He has had limited opportunities, but he hasn't really grabbed all the chances he has had.

I could see Ross a chance of sticking to a reasonably priced contract. To be honest we seem loaded at CB and a little thin at safety, I wouldn't be surprised if we started working in guys like Thomas, Ross or Amukamara in at FS.

BaLLiN
05-18-2011, 09:05 AM
putting Amukamara at FS would be a waste of his skillset, he's a corner. As for Ross, last time we saw him play safety (or last time i remember) was against the eagles two years ago. He did not look good at all, but given his abilities, he could be an absolute ballhawk back there.

Terrell Thomas could also be decent, but i don't see him as a FS, unless its from necessity.

bigbluedefense
05-19-2011, 11:15 AM
We're not moving anyone to Safety until KP shows hes absolutely washed up. KP was decent but not great last year, I hope he takes a step forward this year, but with his condition being degenerative, I wouldn't be surprised if he takes a step back either.

Either way, I see this staff giving KP another year to see what he's got left in the tank.

Anyway, with so many spread sets in today's NFL, it doesn't hurt to be 4 deep at CB. I rather keep them all at CB to combat the spread. Esp on 3rd and long.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-19-2011, 11:19 AM
KP looked like he was playing with a flat tired last season. Rightfully so, but I expect him to get at least some air back in that tire.

bigbluedefense
05-19-2011, 11:54 AM
I went back and watched our preseason games again recently. I needed a football fix and the good ol DVR came through for me.

I went back and basically watched every play a good 4 times each, rewinding back and forth etc, studying the play, the individual players, some plays Id watch a good 8 times to digest everything. So I really went and broke down some guys I wanted to see again. Namely Beatty, Linval, JPP, Koets, and Petrus.

The guys that impressed me the most were Joseph and Petrus. You saw Petrus progress throughout the PS and he really flashed potential to be a high quality LG in this league. Joseph is just a man beast. The guy is raw, but he's so damn strong he was pushing the pocket on every play. Our run defense, and even our pass rush significantly improved when he was in there instead of Coffield. He pushes the middle, and he takes doubles. He doesn't have the lateral agility of Coffield, but with his strength and ability to 2 gap, he makes up for it.

And let's not forget, Fewell's system asks the DTs to 2 gap. They're supposed to occupy blockers and act more like 3-4 dlinemen. So Joseph fits the scheme perfectly. One top of that, while the guy may not have moves, bc he can push ppl back, he provides a pass rush and he opens things up for our DEs. I'm excited about what he can bring.

The question I have is, how many snaps can a guy that big and strong handle? We don't know yet, but we'll probably find out since it seems like a foregone conclusion that Barry is leaving.

Koets...solid. Not spectacular, but not terrible. Basically he was like a young O'Hara. We all know I've never been a huge O'Hara fan, so a young O'Hara doesn't make him a beast by any means, but what I mean by that is I think a healthy Koets is good enough at Center. He can hold the fort and he's a quality player. Not a PBer, but a solid guy.

Beatty...I was very hard on Beatty this past year. I said he sucked. But after watching him more, you did see progress. He still has potential, and boy we better hope he realizes it this year or else our oline could be in trouble. But most of his mistakes were mental, and while he made a TON of them early on, he did show improvement with more playing time.

He needs to bulk up more too, he tried staying the same weight and cutting fat last year but he was still too light. This year I'm hoping we see him bulked up. If he can bulk up and get more comfortable with his assignments, he could still become a LT.

Also, nothing for nothing, but Diehl is starting to look old...

JPP looked raw as hell, but we saw progress during the season.



What sucks is we're relying on a decent amount of development from our young guys on the oline, and Linval and JPP really need a solid TC to develop, plus our rookies, but this lockout is hurting us.

Rosebud
05-19-2011, 02:34 PM
Pretty much agree with your take on those guys. I still really like Beatty and think if he's healthy we have our LT OTF. Did you focus in on Barden at all?

BigBlueNorwegian
05-20-2011, 02:18 AM
Pretty much agree with your take on those guys. I still really like Beatty and think if he's healthy we have our LT OTF. Did you focus in on Barden at all?


I think Barden was injured last pre-season? Or was that just a figment of my imagination, lol! Anyways, this year will be pretty telling for Bardens career imo.

If he goes out and shows some real progress this year, I think he will become a good player. But if he's still the same guy after three years, I think we should start to realize that what you see is what you get.

Giantsfan1080
05-20-2011, 07:54 AM
Barden is fine. He started to show us something in the Cowboys game but of course he had to get hurt.

Rosebud
05-20-2011, 11:05 AM
I think Barden was injured last pre-season? Or was that just a figment of my imagination, lol! Anyways, this year will be pretty telling for Bardens career imo.

If he goes out and shows some real progress this year, I think he will become a good player. But if he's still the same guy after three years, I think we should start to realize that what you see is what you get.

*shrug* I was impressed with him in the Dallas game although admittedly I'm a big fan of his, he was one of my top small school guys when he came out.

bigbluedefense
05-20-2011, 11:11 AM
I don't ever recall Barden being on the field. I'm pretty sure he was hurt all of the preseason. GF is right, he did flash against the Cowboys. I've been hard on Barden as well.

I was waiting to see him flash, and he finally did. Now I feel comfortable with him. We just have to hope he can stay healthy.

Our WR core and the recent Coughlin interview about Burress raises interesting questions. Do we want him back? I really want to bring Plax back. I look at our depth chart at WR though and I struggle to see where we fit him.

Nicks
Smith
Mario
Barden
Cruz
Jerrigan

That's 6 that I definitely want to keep. If we add Burress thats 7. Now with that core we would lose:

Hagan
Hixon
Clayton
Thomas

I really hate to lose Hagan bc he fits our system really well as a possession WR, and Hixon was a great returner when healthy so I'd hate to lose him too, Clayton and Thomas also beefed up our STs even though they brought nothing as WRs last year.

So that's what we have to consider. We can bring Burress back and he'd make our WR stronger, but when you look at that WR core, who's gonna play STs?

Barden has already shown he's not good at STs, Cruz never really got the chance but he's a small guy, ditto for Jerrigan, and I can't see Burress, Smith, Mario or Nicks on STs.

So that's something we have to consider when forming our depth chart too. We need our backups to be good special teamers, bc our special teams suck and that's the most playing time they'll see anyway.

So we have some decisions to make. Bringing Burress back weakens our special teams even more. I think we can counter that with our CB depth, we can throw those guys out there instead of our WRs, but it's still something I'm sure the coaching staff needs to figure out.

I still want Burress back. We haven't beat Philly since he's left. He used to be a Philly killer.

BaLLiN
05-24-2011, 03:44 PM
I've been saying I wanted Burress back since the end of the season. He offers us something that most teams don't have: an agile receiver with size, who is also a playmaker.

Our players and coaches visited him all the time, we're still in touch. It's not out of the question, but I would love to keep him. I'm not sure how we are with Steve Smith, his injury might be serious.

I can't get rid of the feeling that we don't resign Smith.

Jughead10
05-24-2011, 03:57 PM
So we have some decisions to make. Bringing Burress back weakens our special teams even more. I think we can counter that with our CB depth, we can throw those guys out there instead of our WRs, but it's still something I'm sure the coaching staff needs to figure out.

I still want Burress back. We haven't beat Philly since he's left. He used to be a Philly killer.

Put me down for wanting him back. At least on a one year deal to see what he still has. It might weaken our special teams, but that's not Plax's problem. It's the scrub backups we have who are one dimensional. Plax's only problem would be to catch TDs. And not shoot himself again.

Giantsfan1080
05-24-2011, 04:23 PM
Coughlin doesn't want him back so unfortunately it probably won't happen. Don't worry though we'll see him at least 2 times when he's getting a TD for Philly.

BaLLiN
05-24-2011, 07:50 PM
Coughlin doesn't want him back so unfortunately it probably won't happen. Don't worry though we'll see him at least 2 times when he's getting a TD for Philly.

that nfl article is ridiculous, just because vick went to jail and plax went to jail doesnt mean theyre going to the same team. Its not like theyre the only team out there capable of damage control

DOMINATEtheline
05-31-2011, 09:29 AM
I'll be very excited if we signed one of these three OLBs:
1. Manny Lawson
2. Quincy Black
3. James Anderson

Damix
05-31-2011, 09:41 AM
I think Lawson would be an interesting addition, but I just can't us see dipping to deep into the FA pool as we have so much to resign ourselves.

OSUGiants17
05-31-2011, 05:22 PM
Tulloch is my #1 guy that I want, move Goff to WILL, keep Boley at SAM and put him at MIKE. Weak OLB class this year, but some solid MIKEs. If we can't get Tulloch though, I would love to sign Rocky McIntosh

bigbluedefense
06-01-2011, 06:03 PM
I don't think we make any FA splashes. We have so many of our own guys that we need to lock up, I doubt we really go after anybody.

Maybe some midlevel veterans for depth and insurance policies for questionable players in our starting lineups, but I don't expect much beyond that.

As far as linebackers are concerned, I rather just stay away. Why spend FA money on a marginal player? We have plenty of marginal linebackers, we don't need to add more in FA.

And getting linebackers in FA would prevent us from going after them in the draft, and this upcoming draft could potentially be a very good linebacker draft, so I rather just go with what we have and draft linebackers in the upcoming draft.

No FA linebacker is going to make that dramatic of an impact to our defense.

I think we should grab a veteran mid level Center and that's about it. The rest, just lock up our own guys and go with our team.

We're not that far away guys. We were 10-6 this year and I felt like if we were healthy we couldve made some serious noise in the playoffs. Sometimes it takes a couple of years before your team is ready, and I feel like the talent we compiled over the past couple of drafts should be right where we need them to be this year. If not, then maybe it's time to start giving up on a couple of young guys, but I think tihs year the light comes on for a lot of our young guys.

To win a SB you need the right combination of health, veterans, young guys, developed talent and depth, talent (duh), coaching, and luck.

I think we have the right mix of veterans and developed young guys, our coaching staff is a coin toss, we have depth.

Health and luck you can never predict. We'll see what happens.

Damix
06-05-2011, 08:21 AM
Would you guys cut bait on McKenzie and give the same deal to Gaither? (7yrs 37.5 mil)

GaMeTiMe
06-06-2011, 09:21 PM
Would you guys cut bait on McKenzie and give the same deal to Gaither? (7yrs 37.5 mil)

They won't shell out that kind of money with Beatty and Brewer on the roster. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with that color

scottyboy
06-06-2011, 10:32 PM
They won't shell out that kind of money with Beatty and Brewer on the roster. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with that color

haha, noob trolls are hilarious.

Rosebud
06-08-2011, 09:55 AM
haha, noob trolls are hilarious.

sept 2006 < jan 2007

...

scottyboy
06-08-2011, 10:45 AM
sept 2006 < jan 2007

...

hmmm, yes, and the vast differential in posts have nothing to do with anything as well as him having an eagles avy posting in a giants thread talking **** on Damix, one of the most respected posters on this board, and not know the story about his color typing. but sure.

Giantsfan1080
06-24-2011, 06:13 AM
This isn't a suprise to anyone here but this is what a scout said about Eli and our offense to the Sporting News:

"I really think Eli's not going to have the turnover-prone year that he had last year. I don't think he's going down; I think he's still trending upwards. My opinion is it falls on (offensive coordinator Kevin) Gilbride. I really think his offense, with the players they have, neeeds to be - I hate to say this - dumbed down. It's too complicated, especially with receivers and the number of young guys they have there. They're required to do a lot more than most teams as far as options on routes. ...

"They've got a very, very complicated passing offense and, couple that with the turnovers, and it was kind of a little bit of a disaster there. The turnovers really killed them. The receivers not really being where they should be a lot of times caused a lot of turnovers.

bigbluedefense
06-24-2011, 03:11 PM
This isn't a suprise to anyone here but this is what a scout said about Eli and our offense to the Sporting News:

This is why I'm in the minority that wouldn't mind a fresh start from Coughlin. While I like Coughlin as a coach, I also know the price that comes with him: Kevin Gilbride and musical chairs at DC.

And that's what's been holding this team back for awhile. I have no problem with Coughlin, but as long as he's our coach we will continue to have stop gap coordinators on defense and Kevin Gilbride on offense, and that just depresses me.

Having a new HC (preferably a 4-3 pressure based guy) with a new offensive staff would be a much needed breath of fresh air eventually. I just hope that doesn't happen too late when we have to rebuild.

In a perfect world we'd retain Coughlin and wipe out his offensive staff and get a pressure based DC, but that's just not happening. I hope our team is talented enough to overcome our coordinators though, KG in particular.

To be fair to Gilbride, I do like our running concepts a lot, but man I hate the run n shoot. Can you imagine how dominant our WR core could be if we ran a simpler offense? It's painful to think about.

bigbluedefense
06-24-2011, 04:21 PM
Am I crazy for still wanting Randy Moss? I feel like he has a chip on his shoulder and will give a damn this year.

And if that Randy Moss comes back...oh man. He's very experienced with our style of offense too bc NE runs a very similar offense. They just have much smarter WRs so it works better.

Brady himself said that Moss is the smartest player he ever played with, and he was referring to his ability to read defenses and run his choice route to perfection. He's actually a very good fit if he doesn't have his head in his ass.

Plus I've always secretly wanted Moss on the Giants. He's one of my favorite offensive players of all time, and the thought of Eli to Moss just tickles my pickle.

Who am I kidding though, theres no way in hell we get him.

Jughead10
06-24-2011, 04:31 PM
Yeah you're crazy. But I think in the time it took you to type that post, you realized that yourself.

bigbluedefense
06-24-2011, 04:35 PM
Very true.

What about Jared Gaither? He's another guy I liked a lot when healthy, but his back scares the crap out of me.

Giantsfan1080
06-24-2011, 06:35 PM
We have our version of Gaither right now in Shawn Andrews. It's not really worth the money to have two of them.

As for Moss he was also one of my favorite players but I don't want him within 100 miles of this team. He'd be a terrible fit.

OSUGiants17
06-24-2011, 07:49 PM
Not only a terrible fit, but we have
Nicks, Manningham, Barden, Jernigan, Thomas, Cruz, Hixon and we could re-sign Smith and Burress.

Were does Moss fit in all that?

NY+Giants=NYG
06-25-2011, 09:35 AM
This is why I'm in the minority that wouldn't mind a fresh start from Coughlin. While I like Coughlin as a coach, I also know the price that comes with him: Kevin Gilbride and musical chairs at DC.

And that's what's been holding this team back for awhile. I have no problem with Coughlin, but as long as he's our coach we will continue to have stop gap coordinators on defense and Kevin Gilbride on offense, and that just depresses me.

Having a new HC (preferably a 4-3 pressure based guy) with a new offensive staff would be a much needed breath of fresh air eventually. I just hope that doesn't happen too late when we have to rebuild.

In a perfect world we'd retain Coughlin and wipe out his offensive staff and get a pressure based DC, but that's just not happening. I hope our team is talented enough to overcome our coordinators though, KG in particular.

To be fair to Gilbride, I do like our running concepts a lot, but man I hate the run n shoot. Can you imagine how dominant our WR core could be if we ran a simpler offense? It's painful to think about.


And you're a defensive guy. Can you imagine how I must feel seeing other QBs in other systems, and then watching our Phd offense at work? It's beyond painful!

OSUGiants17
06-25-2011, 10:28 AM
Honestly as much as I love Caughlin, I cannot wait for him to retire and a fresh start with coaches

bigbluedefense
06-25-2011, 12:45 PM
"Eli throws deep to Moss!"

*drools*

Damix
06-27-2011, 01:22 PM
Chad Jones looking to play in 2012 as a linebacker. Best of luck to him, hope he defies odds.

Dan Graziano (ESPN NFC East blogger) expects giants to look at Poz, Ruud or Tulloch in FA.

I wouldn't break the bank for any of them

Giantsfan1080
06-27-2011, 01:33 PM
I don't really think we make any big splashes in FA. It's going to be about re-signing what we have around already. Nnamdi would have been the only player I'm interested in but that's not going to happen.

BaLLiN
06-28-2011, 06:55 PM
Chad Jones looking to play in 2012 as a linebacker. Best of luck to him, hope he defies odds.

Dan Graziano (ESPN NFC East blogger) expects giants to look at Poz, Ruud or Tulloch in FA.

I wouldn't break the bank for any of them

i knew it i knew it i knew it. Chad Jones would be a good WILL imo. He has the frame to do it, i hope he can recover.

OSUGiants17
06-28-2011, 09:11 PM
If Chad Jones plays period in 2012 I will be happy. It will be a huge story when he returns.

Also, if we get anyone of those LBs I will be happy, but I would look at Tulloch, then Rudd, then Poz.

gpngc
06-28-2011, 09:58 PM
Goff was pretty good last year though...

Big_Pete
06-29-2011, 12:09 AM
My money is on one free agent LB, with Poslunzsy the preferred option.

Goff would slide outside to SLB splitting time with Sintim.

Poslunzsy is an ideal fit for us at MLB (and I believe at the top of our free agency wish list), plus he knows Fewell and Fewell's schemes. You have to think Poslunzsy would love to play behind our Dline and for a team with legitimate playoff aspirations.

If you look over our draft history, we haven't prioritised LB, but we have been willing to spend money in free agency, such as Mike Barrow, Lavar Arrington and Antonio Pierce.

Other than that, we won't be too active, either resigning our current guys or finding their replacement (possibly upgrading in some cases).

bigbluedefense
06-30-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm rooting for Chad Jones obviously, but to be honest, I'd be absolutely shocked if his career isn't over.

As for FA LBs, I just want to stay away. None of them are worth it. Poz is intriguing, but he's not a dominant player, and I'm tired of having average linebackers.

I want us to draft 1. Now I know our history shows that we won't do that, but hopefully that changes. Or if we can't draft one, next year Lofton might be a FA, or Timmons might be one. Do I see either of them being available? No, but those are the type of LBs I'd be all over in FA.

Not a Poz.

Big_Pete
06-30-2011, 06:31 PM
I'm rooting for Chad Jones obviously, but to be honest, I'd be absolutely shocked if his career isn't over.

As for FA LBs, I just want to stay away. None of them are worth it. Poz is intriguing, but he's not a dominant player, and I'm tired of having average linebackers.

I want us to draft 1. Now I know our history shows that we won't do that, but hopefully that changes. Or if we can't draft one, next year Lofton might be a FA, or Timmons might be one. Do I see either of them being available? No, but those are the type of LBs I'd be all over in FA.

Not a Poz.

I hear what you are saying and frankly I agree with you in principle. But I disagree about the kind of impact Pozlunzsy would have on the team.

I think he would be the leader/coach on the field kind of guy that will help get more out of other other guys. I think he would make a big difference to be honest. I also think he is an ideal fit for what we are looking for and can slot right into Fewell's scheme without too much problem. I also think he will be right around the price range Reese is willing to spend.

I also don't think signing a guy like Pozlunzsy would preclude drafting a LB early next year. My ideal overhaul of our LBs would see Paul Pozlunzsy signed this year and draft Luke Kuchley next year. This also seems to fit the general game plan of filling needs in Free Agency, building through the draft and also slowly working our rookies into the rotation.

bigbluedefense
07-01-2011, 11:08 AM
He doesn't solve any problems for us though. He's not overly athletic. When he was coming out he was athletic enough, but not anymore. He's gone through knee injuries.

We might as well stick with Goff. Goff isn't a terrible MIKE, he's a very solid one who is probably unappreciated. If we're going to replace him, it should be with a guy who is athletic.

Goff is great at lining his guys up and reading plays. He's just not a leader. Leadership can only do so much though. Pierce was a leader. He was a leader with love handles who got pancaked by blockers and beat like a drum in coverage. Let's not pretend he was perfect either.

We need athletic linebackers. That's what's missing from this team. Boley is athletic, but has been injury prone since he got here and a little soft in the run game. We need an athletic MIKE in the worst way.

Think of it this way, if Poz was that great, they wouldn't let him go. It's not like Buffalo has so many other guys they need to pay that they can't afford Poz. They're just letting him go. That's a red flag to me, especially when a team that lacks talent is willing to let go one of their guys who is somewhat talented.

Giantsfan1080
07-01-2011, 11:36 AM
Well I agree with everything you said except for the part where if he was great then they wouldn't let him go. Plenty of guys hit FA who are good but the teams couldn't retain them for one reason or another. ATL didn't have that many LB's behind Boley and they still let him go. I know it was because there was a disconnect in coaching and what they were asking him to do but you get the idea.

bigbluedefense
07-01-2011, 11:53 AM
Usually when a good player is let go it's bc of one of the following:

1. Youth movement
2. Not enough money to resign
3. Doesn't fit the new scheme
4. Doesn't get along with the coaching staff
5. Good depth behind him

But none of those apply to Poz. He's young enough that a youth movement doesn't make sense, they have enough money to resign him, he fit the scheme, he got along with the coaching staff, and there's no depth behind him.

So why are they letting him go? To me, I think it's bc they don't trust those knees anymore. I think buyer should beware with this guy.

Giantsfan1080
07-01-2011, 11:58 AM
It's definitely the health concern. I don't want any part of him. I was just making a general statement though.

bigbluedefense
07-01-2011, 12:03 PM
Yeah I hear ya.

We're just gonna have to hope we can make do with what we have at LB. It is what it is.

I wonder if we would check out Darren Sharper as our 3rd safety this year. I'm also curious if we are going to sign a veteran Center as an insurance policy to our guys.

bigbluedefense
07-01-2011, 12:46 PM
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Check out this clip of Goff. Now I know you can't use a highlight clip as the end all be all of a player, but the guy looked damn good out there. It makes you wonder, is he really the problem? Maybe we just need more speed at the OLB positions.

He's a stud in the run game, I don't think any of us would question his ability to stuff the run. He just lacks a little speed and is a little stiff.

But to his credit, he's not slow by any means, he's just not fast either. And while he's stiff, he's very sound in his coverage assignments. Maybe we're all selling him a little short. Well...maybe I'm selling him short.

But then when you see stuff like that, it makes you wonder, what is the issue with our LB core? Bc I think we can all agree that there is an issue at LB, we need more speed. But how do we address it?

Is scheme part of the problem? Are we not using our LBs correctly? I'm sure thats part of it bc we are not a Tampa 2 team, but that can't be the only issue.

Maybe we need to go back and watch Boley and reevaluate him? Perhaps we are underrating Goff and overrating Boley? Is SAM the true issue? But our SAM was barely on the field bc we used 3 safeties much of the time.

I dunno. Now I'm confused.

bigbluedefense
07-01-2011, 12:54 PM
pKC_hmeuHRQ

Another one.

Giantsfan1080
07-01-2011, 12:59 PM
I think Boley really slowed down the 2nd half of the year. I don't know if it's because we ask him to cover more ground than our other LB's but he certainly didn't look as good. Goff was very solid all year and wasn't really out of position egregiously that I noticed. I'm fine rolling with what we have at LB until we find a stud at LB in the draft.

Our scheme is also an issue where we don't ask our LB's to do much. We have such great depth and strength on the DL and in the secondary that we don't need that high level LB even though we all know that would possibly put this defense on another level. The 3rd S last year helped limit the LB's in covereage which is their biggest weakness. Even Boley was caught out of position in that area last year.

Jughead10
07-01-2011, 01:01 PM
We've always needed a SAM. That's the biggest problem. We need someone who can get after the QB a bit when needed but not be a complete zero in pass coverage. We need someone like Dansby. And we have for several years now. All of our attempts at playing DEs there have failed. We even tried LaVar Arrington there and failed.

Goff is fine. The role of the the stud MLB as the cornerstone of the defense is coming to an end. You just need a player who can line up your defense, shed blocks, and stop the run. Anything they give you in coverage is just a bonus. With all the spread sets these days they aren't even on the field enough to warrant paying someone decent money.

bigbluedefense
07-01-2011, 01:05 PM
So that begs the question: Should we go after Manny Lawson? From what everyone says about him, he's a stud in coverage and can stop the run and set the edge.

Not much of a pass rusher, but out of position in a 3-4. I can't speak on him bc I didn't pay much attention to him, but from what the board keeps saying about him, he'd be a great 4-3 SAM.

Giantsfan1080
07-01-2011, 01:05 PM
Random question but I really don't remember how Torbor was in pass coverage? Anyone remember him being solid?

Giantsfan1080
07-01-2011, 01:06 PM
So that begs the question: Should we go after Manny Lawson? From what everyone says about him, he's a stud in coverage and can stop the run and set the edge.

Not much of a pass rusher, but out of position in a 3-4. I can't speak on him bc I didn't pay much attention to him, but from what the board keeps saying about him, he'd be a great 4-3 SAM.

Honestly I'd rather invest that money elsewhere and just find that LB In the draft eventually. The time will come where we get lucky and have a stud LB drop to us in the 1st.

bigbluedefense
07-01-2011, 01:19 PM
Honestly I'd rather invest that money elsewhere and just find that LB In the draft eventually. The time will come where we get lucky and have a stud LB drop to us in the 1st.

Here's why I'm confused. When you watch the Giants defense, what's been exposed over and over and over again the past 2 years is the deep post down the middle of the field, and underneath coverage of scrambling qbs or flat coverage.

So isn't that an LB problem? Primarily a MIKE problem? The issue won't go away on it's own, yet when you break down Goff it doesn't seem like he's the problem. I can't figure it out.

Random question but I really don't remember how Torbor was in pass coverage? Anyone remember him being solid?

Mediocre. But Spags just ran a different scheme. He'd drop into flats basically if he ever was in coverage, nothing major. And he would blitz the MIKE up the A gap very often to take him out of coverage, so he really put a lot more emphasis on the secondary to hold up in coverage, usually in man coverage.

Lots of single high S instead of 2 deep safety shells.

Big_Pete
07-03-2011, 06:13 PM
He doesn't solve any problems for us though. He's not overly athletic. When he was coming out he was athletic enough, but not anymore. He's gone through knee injuries.

We might as well stick with Goff. Goff isn't a terrible MIKE, he's a very solid one who is probably unappreciated. If we're going to replace him, it should be with a guy who is athletic.

Goff is great at lining his guys up and reading plays. He's just not a leader. Leadership can only do so much though. Pierce was a leader. He was a leader with love handles who got pancaked by blockers and beat like a drum in coverage. Let's not pretend he was perfect either.

We need athletic linebackers. That's what's missing from this team. Boley is athletic, but has been injury prone since he got here and a little soft in the run game. We need an athletic MIKE in the worst way.

Think of it this way, if Poz was that great, they wouldn't let him go. It's not like Buffalo has so many other guys they need to pay that they can't afford Poz. They're just letting him go. That's a red flag to me, especially when a team that lacks talent is willing to let go one of their guys who is somewhat talented.

I will agree to disagree about Pos, I think he does upgrade our LBs. Sure he isn't an OLB any more, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be an upgrade here at MLB.

I find it interesting that you say Pos doesn't have leadership, others have said he is a leader both on the field and in the locker room. Sure Poslunzsy isn’t flashy, but he just gets the job done. Lets not forget he is playing behind a very suspect Dline in Buffalo.

The Bills aren't just letting Pos go, they did give him a very high RFA tender (much higher than we gave our guys), so he is a guy they want back.

I'm also not giving up on Goff, I would like to see him slide over to SLB.

Big_Pete
07-03-2011, 06:30 PM
The other guys I could see potentially as Giants next year are James Anderson and Rocky McIntosh.

bigbluedefense
07-04-2011, 06:10 PM
No, I didn't say Poz has no leadership.

I'm saying that he's not going to give us anything athletically that would make me want to pay him to replace Goff.

He's basically Goff. We already have that. In fact, he's Goff with very questionable knees.

If we're replacing Goff, it's gotta be with a guy who has superior athleticism, or else there's no point.

And Goff isn't a SAM. He's a pure MIKE.

Big_Pete
07-05-2011, 09:12 PM
If we keep Goff at MLB, what about a guy like Rocky McIntosh or Thomas Howard at OLB?

Big_Pete
07-06-2011, 01:17 AM
I think Osi is going to cause problems once the lock out is over, he wants (and probably deserves) his big pay day which he isn't going to get here.

With that in mind I have been looking at potential player for player trade options at our need positions. (We aren't likely to get what we perceive Osi's value to be in terms of draft picks)

Here is an Osi trade idea that I am floating out there (its been quiet for too long)

DE Osi Umenyiora for LB Aaron Curry straight up

Curry has been a decent LB for their 4-3, but Pete Carroll has had to defend his pass rushing ability, some are calling him a bust. But he is big, physical, fast and has good coverage skills.

Curry does have a high cap number as a former #4 draft pick (around $13.2 mil).
salaries (2011: $5,076,250 (+ $5 million roster bonus), 2012: $5,757,500, 2013: $5,938,750, 2014: $8.12 million, 2015: Free Agent)

I think Curry could be available for the right deal. It would allow them to invest in other key areas.

The Giants would also save $2mil from Osi's current contract. We may need to rework the deal (perhaps an extension turning some of the salary/bonus into a signing bonus), but as it stands we would have a 4 year, $30mil deal ($22m through the first 3 years)

For the Seahawks, a stud pass rusher like Osi would be ideal and could be enough to ensure they can win the NFC West, particularly as they can get a decent OLB in free agency.

The Giants are built to win now, we need to get something for Osi. Adding a guy like Curry would be exactly what we need to turn around our LBs. Like it or not we can replace Osi.

Curry for us wouldn't necessarily have to play SLB. How about playing Curry as a MLB or even WLB? Also our Dline is much better than the Seahawks, so that could also help.

any thoughts?

bigbluedefense
07-06-2011, 11:40 AM
I wouldn't hate the idea of Howard or McIntosh on our team, but I wouldn't like it either. They would both improve our LB core, but I really think we need to draft a linebacker. I know history shows that we won't, but I really hope we do. We've ignored it for far too long.

As for Osi...he's under contract for 2 more years. He really has no chips to play with. I'm expecting him to be a Giant for at least one more year.

Giantsfan1080
07-06-2011, 12:35 PM
I basically just want to make sure we re-sign Smith and Bradshaw in FA. Anything after that is gravy.

bigbluedefense
07-06-2011, 12:39 PM
I would like to keep Kiwi and Boss as well. Lord knows I kill Boss all the time, but we have no depth behind him.

And if Jacobs is willing to stick around for less money, keep him too. We need 2 reliable backs. I like Ware, but the guy can't stay healthy.

bigbluedefense
07-06-2011, 12:52 PM
I wouldn't mind DeAngelo Williams btw. He might come around the same price tag bc of his age, and he's the superior RB.

Giantsfan1080
07-06-2011, 12:56 PM
Jacobs is signed already. The big 5 FA's are Smith, Kiwi, Bradshaw, Cofield, and Boss. I'd like to realistically get 4 of them back except for Cofield which I think we have a very good chance. If I had to pick just 2 though it would be Smith and Bradshaw. Kiwi would be next followed by Boss.

bigbluedefense
07-06-2011, 01:02 PM
I agree with that. If we lose Boss, I see us transitioning to more of a spread offense bc Beckum can't seal the edge like Boss can.

Unless we move Pascoe back to TE, and bring back Hedgecock to play FB.

I wish we were better prepared for this and drafted a TE in the middle rounds. Last year we saw Jimmy Graham (who is going to be a monster) go in round 3 and Aaron Hernandez go in round 4.

I guess we have faith in Beckum in case we lose Boss. I hope so, but I dunno, he just doesn't have a TE body. He seems miscast in our offense.

Giantsfan1080
07-06-2011, 01:03 PM
I think Boss is a cheap sign and most know it. He'll be back. They need to come to a damn deal already.

bigbluedefense
07-06-2011, 01:07 PM
We have Terrell Thomas due for an extension soon too don't we? Plus we'll most likely have to choose between Kiwi and Osi in a year.

I feel like our roster could be very different in a year or 2. It seems like Reese has prepared for this for the most part, so we won't go into a rebuilding phase, but some familiar faces are going to off the Roster soon.

Like half the starting oline, a couple of dlinemen, a CB (Ross), maybe even a safety (If Kenny has a setback), maybe a LB overhaul, and some new RBs.