PDA

View Full Version : Mayock's Post-Senior Bowl Rankings


Iamcanadian
02-12-2011, 11:38 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81dd8ff0/article/underclassmen-prevalent-among-top-five-per-position

If a senior attended any of the post season games, Mayock has pretty well slotted where they rank although the combine and their pro day could still have an impact.
The juniors and some small college players will be the main focus of the combine and their pro days. It is still to be sorted out just where they will eventually rank.

whatadai
02-12-2011, 11:50 AM
That's old. I think he has a new top 5 for all positions somewhere else.

Oh wait, nevermind...looks like he just updates his old articles with the new rankings. That's the one I saw.

BigBanger
02-12-2011, 02:50 PM
I like seeing Jimmy Smith moving up. He has top 10 attributes. I don't know about his speed, but his size and physicality, patience in press coverage is simply elite for college corners. I've said it before, and the comparison is lofty, but he looks the part of Nnamdi Asomugha. I think he's one of the best players in this draft class.

I'm also starting to come around on Von Miller. The speed and phone booth quickness are obviously elite (something that makes Clay Matthews so difficult to block), but his punch, leverage and strength is much better than I thought it would be. His size is still a deterrent, but he's so fluid and flexible that he would be hard to pass up if he slips out of the top 10. He has the potential to be a great pass rusher.

EDIT: I also want to mention Cameron Jordan. Doesn't get enough talk. I think he's going to be a much better pro than college player. Great size (can also add weight), strength, some heavy punches (great hand fighter), athletic and very quick for 34 DE. Very stout at the point of attack and great against the run. Plays with excellent leverage and has a relentless motor. I think he will develop into one of the better 34 DEs in the NFL. I think he's a top 20 pick.

Still not a fan of Da'Quan Bowers. Mayock said he looks the part of a top 5 pick based solely on his senior season, and I just don't see it. He has potential and he flashes top 5 ability, but I've never seen him really dominate a game (he did against Maryland, but I don't count that since Maryland perennially gets raped against the best pass rushers for 3 to 4 sacks). I also think he struggles to stack and shed blockers against the run. I don't think he'll be an elite pass rusher either. He's still pretty raw. He does have potential, but even though he was productive this year, I just don't think he looked special doing it.

JJ Watt is a guy I need to see more of, but from the knee jerk reaction he got from the Ohio St. game where everyone jumped on his nuts, I would assume thats some of the best tape he has. I saw a pretty average run defender for a guy his size, playing high and getting pushed off the line far too much to color me impressed and, for 2 of his 3 sacks, he was notching coverage / hustle sacks. I wasn't very impressed, but I do need to see a lot more from him before I make any strong comments. I don't think he was dominant like a lot of people thought. I usually like Mayock and agree with most of what he says, so Watt is definitely a player I'll have to look into.

ElectricEye
02-12-2011, 02:59 PM
He's really, really high on JJ Watt. Interesting.

49erNation85
02-12-2011, 03:03 PM
I'm glad Locker is second on his list.There is still hope for him going to SF.

A Perfect Score
02-12-2011, 03:12 PM
I like seeing Jimmy Smith moving up. He has top 10 attributes. I don't know about his speed, but his size and physicality, patience in press coverage is simply elite for college corners. I've said it before, and the comparison is lofty, but he looks the part of Nnamdi Asomugha. I think he's one of the best players in this draft class.

I'm also starting to come around on Von Miller. The speed and phone booth quickness are obviously elite (something that makes Clay Matthews so difficult to block), but his punch, leverage and strength is much better than I thought it would be. His size is still a deterrent, but he's so fluid and flexible that he would be hard to pass up if he slips out of the top 10. He has the potential to be a great pass rusher.

I can't believe Im saying this, but I actually agree with you. Ive likened Smith to Nnamdi before and Ive been advocating him as a legitimate first round pick for a while. Im a big Jimmy Smith fan and Id love to see him in Baltimore come April.

Babylon
02-12-2011, 03:16 PM
He's really, really high on JJ Watt. Interesting.

Not surprising though. Mayock is about the only one of those that do this stuff for a living that seems to be right on a consistant basis.

rawdawg
02-12-2011, 08:57 PM
Hard to project someone as one of the top 2 CBs in the league (by likening Smith to Asomugha). But when I see Jimmy Smith, I think Chris McAllister. Similar size. The big difference right now seems to be the ball skills. McAllister had 18 college INTs. Smith only had 3 in 3 years, I believe. That's probably keeping in the early 2nd round, IMO.

Matthew Jones
02-12-2011, 09:11 PM
Not a fan of Wisniewski apparently. Hard to figure out where this guy's stock is at right now. Defensive end rankings are whack too.

cajuncorey
02-12-2011, 11:00 PM
EDIT: I also want to mention Cameron Jordan. Doesn't get enough talk. I think he's going to be a much better pro than college player. Great size (can also add weight), strength, some heavy punches (great hand fighter), athletic and very quick for 34 DE. Very stout at the point of attack and great against the run. Plays with excellent leverage and has a relentless motor. I think he will develop into one of the better 34 DEs in the NFL. I think he's a top 20 pick.

yes i agree cameron jordan is going to be a very good pro. For one thing he is the most VIOLENT player in the draft and will beat olineman anyway possible. Hes like justin tuck but better. He WILL be the best pro DE in this draft.

scpanther22
02-13-2011, 10:00 PM
I just don't see Dareus being better than Fairley.

LizardState
02-14-2011, 10:23 AM
I just don't see Dareus being better than Fairley.

As a 4-3 DT, no. As a 3-4 DE, yes. Everybody seems to have them 1 &2 in the DT category for some reason, lack of best guess at what type of defensive scheme will draft them I guess.

Mayock's RB rankings are intriguing:

Running back:

*1. Mark Ingram, Alabama
2. Mikel LeShoure, Illinois
*3. Daniel Thomas, Kansas State
*4. Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech
*5. Jacquizz Rodgers, Oregon State

LeShoure's stock has been skyrocketing, he's #2 with a bullet here. Can't hurt that he's coming from the same program that produced Rashard Mendenhall.

I wonder, is Jaquizz Rodgers big enough to be an NFL RB? He's listed at 5-7, 188. Then again the same thing was said about Seattle Seahawk Justin Forsett when he was drafted out of Cal too, he's listed at the same height & 8 lbs heavier. Maybe Rodgers can beef up.

And he has Gabbert as the #1 QB, wtf is he thinking?

FloridaFootball1
02-14-2011, 11:05 AM
EDIT: I also want to mention Cameron Jordan. Doesn't get enough talk. I think he's going to be a much better pro than college player. Great size (can also add weight), strength, some heavy punches (great hand fighter), athletic and very quick for 34 DE. Very stout at the point of attack and great against the run. Plays with excellent leverage and has a relentless motor. I think he will develop into one of the better 34 DEs in the NFL. I think he's a top 20 pick.



lol what? people have been talking about Jordan non stop since the SR bowl.

LonghornsLegend
02-14-2011, 11:14 AM
Mayock still has Aaron Williams as his #3 corner before Harris and Smith as do I, it almost makes me want to pass on CB in the 1st seeing as how Williams could likely be there in the 2nd round and I don't think he's a round worse then Prince.

PossibleCabbage
02-14-2011, 11:19 AM
LeShoure's stock has been skyrocketing, he's #2 with a bullet here. Can't hurt that he's coming from the same program that produced Rashard Mendenhall.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see LeShoure go ahead of Ingram in the actual draft in April. LeShoure seems like a better component of a rotation/committee approach, which most teams tend to favor these days while Ingram is more in the mold of the "workhorse back" approach, which has pretty much disappeared in the modern NFL.

Babylon
02-14-2011, 11:22 AM
As a 4-3 DT, no. As a 3-4 DE, yes. Everybody seems to have them 1 &2 in the DT category for some reason, lack of best guess at what type of defensive scheme will draft them I guess.

Mayock's RB rankings are intriguing:



LeShoure's stock has been skyrocketing, he's #2 with a bullet here. Can't hurt that he's coming from the same program that produced Rashard Mendenhall.

I wonder, is Jaquizz Rodgers big enough to be an NFL RB? He's listed at 5-7, 188. Then again the same thing was said about Seattle Seahawk Justin Forsett when he was drafted out of Cal too, he's listed at the same height & 8 lbs heavier. Maybe Rodgers can beef up.

And he has Gabbert as the #1 QB, wtf is he thinking?

There probably isnt a true top guy at the position this year so the one that came to the dance late is there.....for now.

SenorGato
02-14-2011, 11:47 AM
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see LeShoure go ahead of Ingram in the actual draft in April. LeShoure seems like a better component of a rotation/committee approach, which most teams tend to favor these days while Ingram is more in the mold of the "workhorse back" approach, which has pretty much disappeared in the modern NFL.

Ingram will probably be in a two back system in the NFL, though he probably is more capable of taking a full load than any other back in this class.

PatrickWillis
02-14-2011, 09:28 PM
Not surprising though. Mayock is about the only one of those that do this stuff for a living that seems to be right on a consistant basis.

He's the same guy who rated Gerald Mccoy higher than Ndamakong Suh.

ElectricEye
02-14-2011, 10:11 PM
He's the same guy who rated Gerald Mccoy higher than Ndamakong Suh.

Which everyone on the site did before the start of last season and was an assumed consensus thing until the middle of the year...and some highly respected people did right up through the post-season process. No shame in that.

Scott Wright
02-14-2011, 10:16 PM
Everyone has hits and misses...

I have Brady Quinn, Mike has Robert Ayers.

Amongst many, many others for both of us.

Halsey
02-14-2011, 10:18 PM
Everyone has hits and misses...

I have Brady Quinn, Mike has Robert Ayers.

Amongst many, many others for both of us.

Knowshon Moreno #5 player in the Draft! :D

I'm a UGA alum and could still see he was way overrating Moreno.

PossibleCabbage
02-14-2011, 10:55 PM
The fact that everybody has hits and misses is further reinforced by the fact that so many high draft picks fail, or at least fail to live up with expectations. Draftniks like Scott, Mayock, and Kiper are good... but nobody is more tuned in and better informed to judge NFL prospects than the people who are actually employed by NFL teams in a scouting capacity.

Great GMs like Ozzie Newsome, Scott Pioli, Bill Polian, and Ted Thompson miss on draft picks with some regularity and it doesn't really damage the credibility they've built from all of their good decisions, I don't see why we can't extend the same charity to draftniks. After all, they have even less information than NFL GMs.

The important thing about the draft is that absolutely everybody is wrong (almost) all the time.

FUNBUNCHER
02-15-2011, 01:18 AM
The only thing that bothers me about some draftniks is I get the feeling some make an out of left field ranking on a player in an effort to garner more fan and media attention to themselves.

Mayock said Robert Ayers was the best defensive prospect in the draft a couple years ago. Anyone who saw the kid play, or rather, not play in his four years at Tennessee could tell Mayock was off on this ranking.

But he did manage to bring in more hits to check out his overall rankings by making his outrageous play on Ayers.

PossibleCabbage
02-15-2011, 01:23 AM
I'm not sure if I can really say that Mayock was wrong about Ayers. It was pretty clear to me that asking him to play OLB in a 3-4 was putting him woefully out of position. If he gets to line up on the end of an even front, he might be a much, much better player. He's certainly not the best defensive player from that draft (really, nobody thought Clay Matthews would be as good as he turned out to be), but it's not Mayock's fault that the team who drafted Ayers tried to play him out of position.

A lot of good prospects won't turn out, if you ask them to do things that they're just not suited to do.

Scott Wright
02-15-2011, 07:14 AM
The only thing that bothers me about some draftniks is I get the feeling some make an out of left field ranking on a player in an effort to garner more fan and media attention to themselves.

I have to say I've noticed this... In the past I've been criticized for my rankings being too "mainstream" or too "collective" but I always say that the goal is to be right, not different. I'm not looking to make a name for myself with off-the-wall stuff, I just want the mocks and rankings to look good in the archives section five years from now. That's the bottom line.

FUNBUNCHER
02-15-2011, 07:52 AM
That's why IMO your rankings have more credibility than many in the media, Scott.

When you talked up JPP last season as a potential high first rounder, it may have been a non-traditional ranking to most fans like myself, but in this case you were simply ahead of the curve about how NFL insiders viewed him as a prospect.

He was an impact player last season for the Giants, which is not totally surprising since his potential was identified much earlier.

That's why I try to hold my tongue(!!) about Gabbert, even though personally I think he's being overhyped, but if he goes in the first I won't be shocked.

LizardState
02-15-2011, 09:10 AM
There probably isnt a true top guy at the position this year so the one that came to the dance late is there.....for now.

<sarcasm> Gabbert: He's This Year's Sanchize !!!! </sarcasm>

Almost as aggravating among QBs is Andy Dalton at #5, < half the turnovers of Mallett + more wins, he has the measurables, the size, & the arm. But everybody will knock him saying his undefeated sr. season came from lesser opponents in the Mtn. West, then others (me too) will remind them of his performance vs. a very good Wisconsin Big 10 defense in the Rose Bowl win. Coming up big in big games is an underrated factor for NFL starting QB material IMO, even just getting there in a post season big game, Colt McCoy got knocked out of his big game in the early 1st qtr. & he's an NFL starter.

Dalton is my pick for the QB who emerges after the Combine as that Next Sanchize, & since he won't make the 1st rd. he will come cheaper too.

Also he has Castonzo back at the top of the OT rankings. Is he doing a complete disconnect between last season of college performance when considering how he will perform in the NFL at the same position? Or more likely (kind of like Kiper used to do annually) he's offering up an outrageously higher than believable ranking to an underachiever to stir up controversy & interest as the draft draws near.

evenar
02-15-2011, 10:26 AM
Mayock spoke about Ayers as a 4-3 left end or a 3-4 end, I don't think anyone thought Denver would play him at OLB.

JohnCandy
02-15-2011, 02:13 PM
His OL rankings seem way off.

Costanzo as the top tackle.

No Marcus Cannon

batman15
02-15-2011, 03:11 PM
I can't really buy into anything that Mayock says. He said Darren McFadden would be a bust and such. I know other analysts have been wrong before too, but he tried to make it personal.

A Perfect Score
02-15-2011, 05:18 PM
There were alot of people who thought Darren McFadden would be a bust. In fact, alot of people up until this season thought Darren McFadden WAS a bust.

ThePudge
02-15-2011, 05:40 PM
There were alot of people who thought Darren McFadden would be a bust. In fact, alot of people up until this season thought Darren McFadden WAS a bust.

RB isn't a position for fans to write off. Several RBs have only started to come into their own after their third season, examples being Thomas Jones, Cedric Benson, and McFadden. I still hold out some hope for Beanie Wells developing into a star back, but he may be destined to remain the softest 230+ back in the league.

Iamcanadian
02-15-2011, 06:04 PM
I can't really buy into anything that Mayock says. He said Darren McFadden would be a bust and such. I know other analysts have been wrong before too, but he tried to make it personal.

He never said Mc Fadden would be a bust, he said he didn't like his toughness, that he went down too easy when tackled. Al Davis loves speed and wanted a RB with great break away talent, so he drafted McFadden. Mayock said McFadden would be a high pick, he just didn't like that kind of RB for his team if he had one.

Mayock analysis talent with his kind of team in mind. He likes his TE's to block so he's not going to rank a TE too high who can only catch the ball, while a he says a team wanting a pass receiving TE wouldn't follow his TE rankings.

He obviously prefers a 4-3 basic defense and his 3-4 rankings aren't the best IMO although he grudgingly gives rankings for them.

He is really wary of junior QB's and will never give them a complete clean bill of health or compare them to the great ones. They are simply too raw to get a complete read on in his opinion.

As for his current rankings, so far all you can tell is how well he likes certain seniors based on what he saw at the East-West Shrine game and the Senior Bowl, he will not comment much on the junior prospects until he sees them workout at the combine or their pro days. He is just beginning to look at film on the juniors and his rankings of juniors is very preliminary. I suspect his current junior rankings are based on what his contacts among the GM's and scouting community have indicated to him and you will see a shakeup once the combine is finished after he has had a chance to observe them in action.

I guarantee you, practical every GM in the league includes his analysis on prospects when putting together their draft board, they may not agree with his total analysis but they certainly take it under consideration which is a lot more than teams do with say Kiper.
He has access to film we would all kill for and the equipment necessary to break it down, he can run his ideas past GM's and scouts for their input taking what he wants from their opinions. He actually played pro football and knows what it takes.

Scouting in the NFL after all, is not a one man opinion profession, GM's collect the ideas from many scouts in their organization and I'm sure there are serious disagreements, so Mayock should be wrong numerous times, since he clearly states he likes to rely in the end mostly on his own opinion, and we all know the draft is a crap shoot at best because there is no test which really can measures mental toughness and determination to make it.

LonghornsLegend
02-15-2011, 06:09 PM
His OL rankings seem way off.

Costanzo as the top tackle.

No Marcus Cannon

The omission of Marcus Cannon was very surprising. I don't see any scenario he is available by the start of the 3rd round, and is close to being my top rated Guard.

Iamcanadian
02-15-2011, 06:19 PM
The omission of Marcus Cannon was very surprising. I don't see any scenario he is available by the start of the 3rd round, and is close to being my top rated Guard.

I'm not saying he isn't talented and you may be right about where he will be drafted, however at over 350lbs. he reminds me of a lot of OLmen who dropped on draft day because they weren't in good shape. You have to be able to play hard for 4 quarters and not wilt after the 1st half and large OL who come from college out of shape are not very likely to work hard as pros to get into shape at the next level.
We'll see what Cannon weighs in at the combine to see how determined he is to prove to pro scouts and GM's that they can count on him to be in shape for their football team.

the natural
02-15-2011, 11:34 PM
Mayock still has Aaron Williams as his #3 corner before Harris and Smith as do I, it almost makes me want to pass on CB in the 1st seeing as how Williams could likely be there in the 2nd round and I don't think he's a round worse then Prince.

Williams won't get out of the first round. He'll go right on the heels of the other two guys. Aaron is smarter than any of the others and an exceptional athlete.

the natural
02-15-2011, 11:38 PM
The only thing that bothers me about some draftniks is I get the feeling some make an out of left field ranking on a player in an effort to garner more fan and media attention to themselves.

Mayock said Robert Ayers was the best defensive prospect in the draft a couple years ago. Anyone who saw the kid play, or rather, not play in his four years at Tennessee could tell Mayock was off on this ranking.

But he did manage to bring in more hits to check out his overall rankings by making his outrageous play on Ayers.
What Mike actually said was that he "thought Ayers COULD become the best defensive player IN THREE YEARS" from the time of the draft. That gives Robert one more year to prove him right. He showed some signs last year, but has been injured a lot.

the natural
02-15-2011, 11:40 PM
Mayock seems completely turned off by Cam Newton. He didn't bother to go to San Diego to watch him. Wasn't interested at all. I have the feeling that if Mike were a G.M. in the league that Cam would get a DO NOT DRAFT designation from him.

PossibleCabbage
02-16-2011, 12:40 AM
Mayock seems completely turned off by Cam Newton. He didn't bother to go to San Diego to watch him. Wasn't interested at all. I have the feeling that if Mike were a G.M. in the league that Cam would get a DO NOT DRAFT designation from him.

Actually, the reason that Mayock wouldn't go see Newton in San Diego is that Newton couldn't possibly do anything in San Diego that would assuage any of Mayock's concerns, and the things that Newton would do in San Diego were the things that Mayock was already convinced that Newton could/would do well. So there was simply no reason for him to attend since he would learn absolutely nothing from it.

It's the draftnik equivalent of not wanting to watch a movie because you already know what happens.

raynman
02-16-2011, 11:21 AM
i don't take mayock as gospel. he might be more on target than guys like kiper and mcshay, but he's still fallible.

last year he had mccoy over suh. that right there is a pretty obvious boneheaded move. no way could suh have been behind anyone. very well could be the best DT to ever play the game and that was apparent even before he entered the draft.

this time he has dareus over fairley and gabbert and locker over newton. there is no way that both of those guys are above newton, esp. locker.
what this shows to me is that mayock has some pretty small balls. why? he's afraid to go out on a limb. newton and fairley are much more talented and have much more upside than the guys they are ranked behind. he's going with dareus and gabbbert because they are "safer" picks. dareus is more proven than fairley since he's been in his situation longer and gabbert is supposedly more of a traditional QB (interpret that however you want). it has more to do with his dislike of newton and fairley than their actual talent or potential.

the natural
02-16-2011, 11:35 AM
LOL, it's not like the NFL draft hasn't been riddled with "actual talent and potential" that has brought the teams that drafted them nothing but grief. I wouldn't waste a draft pick on Newton or Fairley, and I bet if you backed Mike into a corner he would say the same. As to McCoy and Suh, Gerald wasn't exactly chopped liver last season and he is two years younger than Suh. Long way to go in both of their careers before final judgement can be made.

Babylon
02-16-2011, 11:35 AM
Mayock seems completely turned off by Cam Newton. He didn't bother to go to San Diego to watch him. Wasn't interested at all. I have the feeling that if Mike were a G.M. in the league that Cam would get a DO NOT DRAFT designation from him.

He has Newton as his 3rd QB which isnt what i would call completely turned off. As for not wanting to go to San Diego he was smart enough to know that it was nothing more than a media event and stayed home.

Iamcanadian
02-16-2011, 11:42 AM
Mayock seems completely turned off by Cam Newton. He didn't bother to go to San Diego to watch him. Wasn't interested at all. I have the feeling that if Mike were a G.M. in the league that Cam would get a DO NOT DRAFT designation from him.

Only the press were invited to San Diego, Mayock couldn't attend even if he wanted to.
I don't get why you think he is turned off by Newton, he'll be very happy to assess him when he works out at his pro day or at the Combine.
I completely disagree that Mayock would give Newton a DO NOT DRAFT designation, even though he hasn't seen him workout, he still rates him #3 on his QB list with a solid chance to move up. that's your own biases coming into play.

FUNBUNCHER
02-16-2011, 11:55 AM
LOL, it's not like the NFL draft hasn't been riddled with "actual talent and potential" that has brought the teams that drafted them nothing but grief. I wouldn't waste a draft pick on Newton or Fairley, and I bet if you backed Mike into a corner he would say the same. As to McCoy and Suh, Gerald wasn't exactly chopped liver last season and he is two years younger than Suh. Long way to go in both of their careers before final judgement can be made.

Suh is a year and a month older than McCoy, not two. What's your obsession with the age of a prospect?? First check to see if they can play, age is far down on the list of desirable attributes for a prospect.

Seven rounds, and you wouldn't take a flier on either Newton or Fairley??
Nonsense.

But at least I know where you stand on both as prospects; they aren't worthy of a draft pick in ANY round.

the natural
02-16-2011, 11:57 AM
Only the press were invited to San Diego,

Pretty sure Mike qualifies as "the press". Though it probably speaks volumes that you see him as a pro scout rather than a reporter.

Iamcanadian
02-16-2011, 11:57 AM
Suh is a year and a month older than McCoy, not two. What's your obsession with the age of a prospect?? First check to see if they can play, age is far down on the list of desirable attributes for a prospect.

Seven rounds, and you wouldn't take a flier on either Newton or Fairley??
Nonsense.

But at least I know where you stand on both as prospects; they aren't worthy of a draft pick in ANY round.



Obviously an Auburn hater.

the natural
02-16-2011, 12:00 PM
Suh is a year and a month older than McCoy, not two. What's your obsession with the age of a prospect?? First check to see if they can play, age is far down on the list of desirable attributes for a prospect.

Seven rounds, and you wouldn't take a flier on either Newton or Fairley??
Nonsense.

But at least I know where you stand on both as prospects; they aren't worthy of a draft pick in ANY round.

Age makes a big difference at this point in an athletes development. Basically you need to compare what McCoy does this year to what Suh did last year, to be fair. The point about Newton and Fairley is that they won't be around for seven rounds. Or even two. You never have to face that dilemma. You pass on the guys and someone else takes them. Amounts to the same thing as a do not draft designation.

the natural
02-16-2011, 12:01 PM
Obviously an Auburn hater.
Place stinks of corruption. Chizik as well.

scottyboy
02-16-2011, 12:05 PM
Place stinks of corruption. Chizik as well.

so because they're corrupt means their players won't be good pros? because Auburn is corrupt, you wouldn't take Fairley?
i applaud the flawless logic.

FUNBUNCHER
02-16-2011, 01:35 PM
Age makes a big difference at this point in an athletes development. Basically you need to compare what McCoy does this year to what Suh did last year, to be fair. The point about Newton and Fairley is that they won't be around for seven rounds. Or even two. You never have to face that dilemma. You pass on the guys and someone else takes them. Amounts to the same thing as a do not draft designation.

No, you compare their NFL rookie seasons to each other.

This isn't Major League Baseball, there is no minor league in the NFL. If you're designated a starter from week 1, your team expects you to perform.

Why is it a problem to acknowledge that Suh is a better player than McCoy??
Maybe McCoy improves as he gains more NFL experience, but right now the better player is Suh and it's not close.

'Do Not draft' and 'do not draft in round1/2' are entirely different concepts.
Some players are considered undraftable by teams in any round, and have to hope they're given a chance to try out for a team as an UDFA.

Not considering Fairley or Newton 1st or second round worthy picks doesn't mean you wouldn't take them at a later pick if they were available; that's called a 'value' pick.

the natural
02-16-2011, 01:44 PM
When Mayock makes his assessments they are based on a 5 year projection or so with the top end guys. He liked Robert Ayers in 2009 on the basis that he thought Ayers could be the best defensive player from the draft "in three years". I assume it was the same scenario with Gerald McCoy. Mike thinks that over their careers McCoy will be more valuable than Suh. You can't kill him on the basis of Suh having a better rookie year. Particularly when McCoy was hurt part of the time.

PossibleCabbage
02-16-2011, 01:53 PM
Though I did think Mayock whiffed on the assertion that "McCoy provided better pass rush than Suh" based on college numbers. From what I saw from Oklahoma and Nebraska when they were playing there, that was all scheme.

Everybody makes mistakes in this business, particularly the people who are best at it.

FUNBUNCHER
02-16-2011, 02:07 PM
When Mayock makes his assessments they are based on a 5 year projection or so with the top end guys. He liked Robert Ayers in 2009 on the basis that he thought Ayers could be the best defensive player from the draft "in three years". I assume it was the same scenario with Gerald McCoy. Mike thinks that over their careers McCoy will be more valuable than Suh. You can't kill him on the basis of Suh having a better rookie year. Particularly when McCoy was hurt part of the time.

You're making excuses.

Explain to me how in any scenario 5 years from now, assuming both Suh and McCoy avoid major injuries, that McCoy projects as a better player than Suh??

McCoy will be a better player, I assume in 5 years. But so will Suh, and I don't see how McCoy's level of play will eclipse Suh to the point that Gerald is regarded as the better player.

McCoy IMO deserved to be drafted when he was, but when you say that Suh had a 'better rookie year', (1st team All Pro, DROTY), you really aren't looking at what Suh did in 2010 objectively.

It would be like having two rookie RBs, one who rushed for 800yds and 5 TDs, the other rushing for 1800yds and 20 TDs, then saying the former still may end up the better player.

Huh??

the natural
02-17-2011, 01:21 AM
Just a year ago Brian Cushing was DROTY ahead of his old teammate Clay Matthews. Cushing went to the Pro Bowl. Was drafted ahead of Matthews. You can't predict the future any better than the rest of us.

FUNBUNCHER
02-17-2011, 11:39 AM
Just a year ago Brian Cushing was DROTY ahead of his old teammate Clay Matthews. Cushing went to the Pro Bowl. Was drafted ahead of Matthews. You can't predict the future any better than the rest of us.

Both Cushing AND Matthews went to the pro bowl as rookies.
Their seasons were much more similar than McCoy and Suh as rookies.

There's a major gap at present between Suh and McCoy, less so for Cushing and Matthews.

Just say Suh is flat out better, but McCoy is still developing and could still end up being a top 5 DT in the NFL.

bitonti
02-17-2011, 11:59 AM
mayock is excellent at scouting Qbs and Dbs. He's a safety by trade. he's still learning when it comes to trenches.

yourfavestoner
02-17-2011, 12:25 PM
mayock is excellent at scouting Qbs and Dbs. He's a safety by trade. he's still learning when it comes to trenches.

This, this, more of this. He's money with the skill guys. Take anything he says about linemen with a boulder of salt.

LonghornsLegend
02-17-2011, 12:36 PM
Yet everyone still thought he was ranking Earl Thomas above Berry just for shits and giggs.

the natural
02-17-2011, 12:36 PM
Both Cushing AND Matthews went to the pro bowl as rookies.

Cushing was second team All Pro, just outside the top two in voting. He was clearly rated higher coming in, and through his first season. You couldn't find a G.M. in the league who would take him ahead of Matthhews today.

SRogers92
02-17-2011, 01:03 PM
Cushing was also taking PED's ...


Matthews had 10 sacks as a rookie playing an entirely new scheme ... that's an extremely impressive rookie season for a player making a huge transition ... Cushing played a position that he played in college and a position that usually, almost always wins DRoTY ... again -- you really cannot make that comparison because it stinks.

the natural
02-17-2011, 01:48 PM
Cushing was also taking PED's ...

That's B.S. You want us to believe that Cushing was using them and guys like Matthews, Maualuga, Harrison, etc. weren't?

Right.

PossibleCabbage
02-17-2011, 02:03 PM
That's B.S. You want us to believe that Cushing was using them and guys like Matthews, Maualuga, Harrison, etc. weren't?

Right.

By the standard of "A got caught, while B, C, and D didn't", then yes.