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dregolll
02-14-2011, 03:36 PM
Let me start by saying it has become very obvious that people are starting to have preconceived notions about African-American quarterbacks. I’m totally convinced that this has become the case now. Cam Newton has everything you look for in an elite quarterback size, arm, mobility, and the will to win. He has won 2 national championships and has done everything that you can ask of him but he still doesn’t seem to measure up. I can honestly sit here and say that I have never seen a more scrutinized prospect in my years watching football. You would think that Mr. Newton would be a shoe-in for the #1 pick overall but that is far from the case. Why? When the pundits speak about Cam, they always seem to refer back to a couple adjectives that have come to stigmatize African-American quarterbacks. Those adjectives are does he have the “mental capacity” when what they really say is “he too dumb” to learn a system. Another adjective is “character concerns”. I have heard this with Cam and I’m asking myself what are the character concerns. Many people refer to the stolen laptop when he was at Florida, but I don’t think he knew the laptop was stolen. Also, people would like to rip on this guy because his father is involved with his son’s life, are you kidding. The third characteristic is “is he a hard worker” when they really would like to say “he’s probably lazy because he is an African American quarterback”.
For example, during last year’s draft no one ever talked about Sam Bradford’s work ethic or he being able to pick up the mental side and he came from the spread also. With Tim Tebow, even though he was talked about in a negative way, not one scout or pundits question his brain or work ethic. The saying was “If anyone can pick up the system, it will be Tim Tebow because he is one of the hardest workers you ever would like to be around. These are the type of double standards that really annoy. This is thinking is just a microcosm of our warped society. Even Ryan Leaf is not plastered with those adjectives of being lazy or to dumb. When Andrew Luck was supposedly coming out, he was the best prospect since Peyton Manning. Non African American quarterbacks get compared to the greats, while Cam Newton gets compared Jamarcus Russell, who happens to be a huge bust. Why can’t they compare Andrew Luck to Ryan Leaf or Matt Leinart or Tim Couch or David Carr or Alex Smith? Why does he get the privilege to get Manning comparison (great QB) and Cam Newton gets compared to Russell ( huge bust). Again, double standards it seems like in other situation in our society. African Americans have to set a positive precedent for those who plan to follow. They are not comparing Cam to Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, or Donovan Mcnabb, no, let’s take the most recent major disappointments and compare him to Russell and Vince Young. By the way, Vince Young IMHO is not a disappointment, he was just in an unfortunate situation, but that is the perception of many.
I heard Todd Mcshay talk about what are the things that he looks for in his quarterback and his response was intelligence and accuracy, even though Blaine Gabbert has a low completion percentage. My point is, no one has questions Gabbert intelligence or his work ethic even though there are reports of him being overweight. No one questions Jake Locker’s intelligence or work ethic even though he “REGRESSED” from his junior to senior season. I’m just sitting here listening to the subtle racism and double standards of not just Cam Newton, but other African American quarterbacks from the past. I don’t care what anyone says about this situation or subject there is racism involved, it may not be overt, but it is subtle and the hints are being thrown.

cajuncorey
02-14-2011, 03:57 PM
Let me start by saying it has become very obvious that people are starting to have preconceived notions about African-American quarterbacks. I’m totally convinced that this has become the case now. Cam Newton has everything you look for in an elite quarterback size, arm, mobility, and the will to win. He has won 2 national championships and has done everything that you can ask of him but he still doesn’t seem to measure up. I can honestly sit here and say that I have never seen a more scrutinized prospect in my years watching football. You would think that Mr. Newton would be a shoe-in for the #1 pick overall but that is far from the case. Why? When the pundits speak about Cam, they always seem to refer back to a couple adjectives that have come to stigmatize African-American quarterbacks. Those adjectives are does he have the “mental capacity” when what they really say is “he too dumb” to learn a system. Another adjective is “character concerns”. I have heard this with Cam and I’m asking myself what are the character concerns. Many people refer to the stolen laptop when he was at Florida, but I don’t think he knew the laptop was stolen. Also, people would like to rip on this guy because his father is involved with his son’s life, are you kidding. The third characteristic is “is he a hard worker” when they really would like to say “he’s probably lazy because he is an African American quarterback”.
For example, during last year’s draft no one ever talked about Sam Bradford’s work ethic or he being able to pick up the mental side and he came from the spread also. With Tim Tebow, even though he was talked about in a negative way, not one scout or pundits question his brain or work ethic. The saying was “If anyone can pick up the system, it will be Tim Tebow because he is one of the hardest workers you ever would like to be around. These are the type of double standards that really annoy. This is thinking is just a microcosm of our warped society. Even Ryan Leaf is not plastered with those adjectives of being lazy or to dumb. When Andrew Luck was supposedly coming out, he was the best prospect since Peyton Manning. Non African American quarterbacks get compared to the greats, while Cam Newton gets compared Jamarcus Russell, who happens to be a huge bust. Why can’t they compare Andrew Luck to Ryan Leaf or Matt Leinart or Tim Couch or David Carr or Alex Smith? Why does he get the privilege to get Manning comparison (great QB) and Cam Newton gets compared to Russell ( huge bust). Again, double standards it seems like in other situation in our society. African Americans have to set a positive precedent for those who plan to follow. They are not comparing Cam to Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, or Donovan Mcnabb, no, let’s take the most recent major disappointments and compare him to Russell and Vince Young. By the way, Vince Young IMHO is not a disappointment, he was just in an unfortunate situation, but that is the perception of many.
I heard Todd Mcshay talk about what are the things that he looks for in his quarterback and his response was intelligence and accuracy, even though Blaine Gabbert has a low completion percentage. My point is, no one has questions Gabbert intelligence or his work ethic even though there are reports of him being overweight. No one questions Jake Locker’s intelligence or work ethic even though he “REGRESSED” from his junior to senior season. I’m just sitting here listening to the subtle racism and double standards of not just Cam Newton, but other African American quarterbacks from the past. I don’t care what anyone says about this situation or subject there is racism involved, it may not be overt, but it is subtle and the hints are being thrown.

please dont say that

San Diego Chicken
02-14-2011, 03:58 PM
This thread isn't going to last very long, but why didn't you mention Mallett? He looks white to me, and people are questioning the hell out of his intangibles.

TACKLE
02-14-2011, 04:02 PM
This is something that has definitely stuck out to me recently. I'd like to say these double standards aren't at all racially motivated and that players are evaluated in the vacuum but I just can't say that's entirely true. Now I don't think people are consciously doing this or have an specific agenda, but it doesn't mean its not happening. I've had to raise my eyebrows at some of the criticisms towards Newton. Some of the concerns are things that are based off pure speculation but aren't even mentioned with the other top QB prospects.

This thread may get shut down because the subject matter could turn sour in a hurry but I just thought I'd say my piece.

Babylon
02-14-2011, 04:03 PM
Thankfully nobody has found fault with Ryan Mallett or Jake Locker, oh i guess they have (in their threads).

RaiderNation
02-14-2011, 04:04 PM
Even though Bradford and Newton both came from spread offences, they were still very different. Bradford spread the ball around in short to middle routes. But the main thing was he was a passer, not a runner.

Newton's offence was more about speed, and they ran the ball with that speed. Newton was a runner before passing at many times this season. This is coming from a Newton supporter as well. I think Newton will succeed, if drafted to the perfect situation. I can see him being a bust if a team thinks he can start in his first year, or if they try to make him a different player than he should be. Use Newton's strengths, and coach up his understanding of the NFL passing game and defenses and he will be deadly

jnew76
02-14-2011, 04:15 PM
I don't care who the QB is, if they have done the following things in college, their character will be questioned -

Cam Newton Steals Laptop - Here is the arrest report

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/college/cam-newton-lame-laptop-thief

Cam Newton caught cheating 3 times at Florida leading to transfer - Details here.

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Source-says-Newton-left-Florida-after-cheating-scandal

Cam Newton's father the center of NCAA investigation in pay for play scandal which Newton has never been proven to be involved in, although Joe Schad of ESPN reports that his source in the Mississippi St. program said that he heard directly from Cam Newton that "the money was too good" at Auburn, and he would not be going to MSU as detailed here -

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2010/11/10/report-cam-newton-chose-auburn-because-the-money-was-too-much/

In unrelated news, Ryan Mallett - 6'6" white QB with an incredible arm and first round talent is being downgraded by everyone in the scouting community based on character concerns that are far less documented than in the Cam Newton case.

I can see the clear double standard that is plaguing the draft evaluation process, and there is no question that Cam Newton should not carry the stigma of a "Character Concern" - Are you serious with this?

brasho
02-14-2011, 04:32 PM
How can anybody not look at the simplistic Auburn offense and the fact that Newton only started a season's worth of games that actually matter and say that he is definitely: Smart enough, Ready for the NFL, Enough experience, Has strong character, Great work ethic, etc.

If you want to go strictly with Newton's past, then he is nearly undraftable: cheating, theft, cheating, dishonesty, cheating, trying to extort Ole Miss, etc. But I assume teams will like his potential. I mean honestly, considering Newton's past misdeeds, can you honestly say that he has shown intelligence?

Babylon
02-14-2011, 04:34 PM
^

Good points. You also had these things said about these guys:

"comes from a read option offense, will have to adjust to multiple reads
at the next level" (Tim Tebow)

"very short resume, barely a season and a half of starting experience"
(Mark Sanchez)

"Spread offense, played with a great supporting cast, has struggled some when under pressure" (Sam Bradford)

"Not always as accurate as you'd like and throws off balance on occasions. (Matthew Stafford)

TACKLE
02-14-2011, 04:47 PM
This is something that has definitely stuck out to me recently. I'd like to say these double standards aren't at all racially motivated and that players are evaluated in the vacuum but I just can't say that's entirely true. Now I don't think people are consciously doing this or have an specific agenda, but it doesn't mean its not happening. I've had to raise my eyebrows at some of the criticisms towards Newton. Some of the concerns are things that are based off pure speculation but aren't even mentioned with the other top QB prospects.

This thread may get shut down because the subject matter could turn sour in a hurry but I just thought I'd say my piece.

I should be more clear on what criticisms I'm referring too.

Off-field/family concerns, reads, system question, accuracy....all those I can understand. It's just I've never heard Blaine Gabbert's intelligence, work ethic, dedication or commitment to football called into question. But somehow these have become a focal point of Cam Newton's evaluation.I've yet to see any indication that he has a poor work ethic, doesn't love the game of football and doesn't have the intelligence to quickly pick up a new offensive system.

If people want to over-analyzing method in evaluating Gabbert, his dip in production in his junior season maybe an indication that he was complacent and didn't work hard enough to improve his game heading following his sophomore season.

the natural
02-14-2011, 04:53 PM
In defense of Newton, he does have nice white teeth. :)

Babylon
02-14-2011, 04:58 PM
I should be more clear on what criticisms I'm referring too.

Off-field/family concerns, reads, system question, accuracy....all those I can understand. It's just I've never heard Blaine Gabbert's intelligence, work ethic, dedication or commitment to football called into question. But somehow these have become a focal point of Cam Newton's evaluation.I've yet to see any indication that he has a poor work ethic, doesn't love the game of football and doesn't have the intelligence to quickly pick up a new offensive system.

If people want to over-analyzing method in evaluating Gabbert, his dip in production in his junior season maybe an indication that he was complacent and didn't work hard enough to improve his game heading following his sophomore season.

To be fair Locker gets some of the same questions asked about him, dedication to football, looks to run first, accuracy questions. Maybe it has more to do with them being athletes that people think they cant somehow be cerebral also.

As for Gabbert there should be a whole discussion on his attributes and faults because he has been given the biggest pass i've seen anyone get in quite a while.

SeanTaylorRIP
02-14-2011, 05:01 PM
I pretty much agree with everything njx said. Only thing I think is stupid is the constant Jamarcus comparisons. Jamarcus was a bust because he was fat and lazy and had no passion for the game, 3 things Cam is without issue. They didn't run similar offenses in college and carry no similarities other than height and arm strength. Personally being old enough to remember if anything Cam as a prospect reminds me of Mcnabb coming out of that Syracuse spread/option offense and was extremely raw. Comparisons are stupid but the only thing I think is unfair to Cam is that the only guy he gets compared to is Jamarcus Russell, never Mcnabb or Culpepper or anyone like that. I think the OP is kind of ridiculous. In general from all the criticisms I've heard of Newton are character concerns and his ability to run a pro style offense, both extremely valid concerns considering his numereous character issues and college system. I honestly haven't heard anyone question his work ethic or passion for football. If anyone questions that they are probably just a hater who wants him to fail. If there have ever been any questions about his mental capacity it's simply either because he is unproven to run a pro style offense, or a branch off the character concerns. It's hard to say there is a double standard with black QB's when the most recent high draft pick black QB's have been two bone heads, Russell and VY. I think you are overreacting. Look at Pat White, had every reason to be bashed based on his skills and college system, but I guarantee you not one person questioned his work ethic or intelligence. Really the only stupid racial assumption about Black QB's I see out there are from college coaches who think all Black QB's are athletic and can run an option offense. I had a nice chuckle when I heard some scouts saying Philip Sims is more of an option QB.

JoeJoeBrown
02-14-2011, 05:04 PM
and yet there are questions about him. are you honestly trying to call everyone who disagrees with you a racist? because that would be ******* pathetic and more an indictment of your own character than theirs.



false. he hasn't run an offense from under center. for example. i feel like you being completely, hopelessly incorrect is going to be a theme of this post.



then it's quite clear you haven't actually been paying any attention whatsoever to the draft, well, ever. but i guess everyone's a racist because you don't know what you're talking about.



you could probably start with the team that has the #1 overall pick. it's not like andrew luck was a shoe-in, though everyone here thought it was the right choice.



are you suggesting that he doesn't have character concerns? can you also provide a cite to someone saying he's not smart enough to play quarterback?



honestly? your opinion is completely irrelevant. if i believe the laptop was stolen, it's a character concern. i'm not a racist because i disagree with you.



bahahahahahaha. 'his father tried to sell him to the highest bidder and some people believe that cam may have known about it' is the same as 'his father's involved in his life'? what ******* planet are you from?



that's a massive assumption. citation needed.



you know, except that everyone WAS talking about whether he'd be able to adjust from a spread. it's becoming more and more clear that you've never followed the draft, and that you were too lazy to even go educate yourself before speaking. oh, ****. does that make me a racist again? i mean, i called you lazy.



what, exactly, does this non-sequitur have to do with newton?



wait, seriously? this *has* to be an elaborate troll. because there's no way anyone could actually type something that completely ridiculous with a straight face.



are you serious? do you actually think that, aside from the color of their skin, cam newton and andrew luck are identical prospects? there's a pretty bloody good reason that cam newton isn't being compared to peyton manning, and it has nothing to do with the fact that only one of them is white. there's a pretty damn good reason why andrew luck isn't being compared to randall cunningham, and it's not because he's white.

this entire bit of your post must've required an absolutely staggering amount of cognitive dissonance. i'm utterly astonished that you didn't stop yourself halfway through typing it and realize what an absurdly idiotic thing you were about to try to pass off as rational opinion.

that's not to mention some of the comparisons made about matt ryan, sam bradford, jimmy clausen, brady quinn, alex smith and literally countless other quarterbacks that are probably too inconvenient for you to mention, even assuming that you have any idea who they are (i guess i should stop assuming you knew who any of these quarterbacks were before you googled their names).



so, you're advocating that people compare newton to only other black quarterbacks that he's actually in no way whatsoever comparable to? should i compare him to doug williams? i mean, they're both black, right? we can totally ignore the fact that they're completely dissimilar players. except that the suggestion we only compare newton to black qbs is probably the most overtly racist part of this entire post so far.

the vince young comment is cute though. it was an unfortunate situation. you know, the same exact situation steve mcnair thrived in. it's clear that vince young was one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, i just wish you'd acknowledge that kerry collins was solely responsible for holding him back. i mean, that IS the only reason that vince young isn't a 4 time MVP right now.



i'm pretty sure people are busy with far more substantive criticisms of gabbert.



no, they just question whether he's even a remotely nfl-caliber quarterback. not just whether he should be picked in the first but whether he can actually play in the nfl.

'dude, you guys all suck, you're not complaining about this one totally minor part of a prospect! racists!'
'bro, we've pretty much all agreed he shouldn't even be drafted'
'it's just because he's white.'

*eyeroll*



i'm pretty sure you can't think of a single example of people talking **** about any other african american qbs that wasn't justified. russell had rumors dogging him about being lazy. shockingly, they were true. vince young had rumors of low intelligence. then he flunked the easiest test he's probably ever taken. ryan leaf had massive character concerns. they turned out to be true.



except that there isn't and you've been wrong about quite literally every single thing you've posted here. this would ordinarily be entertaining, but you've managed to call every single poster who doesn't think newton is the best prospect of all time a racist and that's, frankly, disgusting and a borderline personal attack on the entire forum.

why don't we do this: you go back and spend more than 12 seconds googling some names (and probably pictures, so you could make sure grouped the black and white qbs appropriately) and maybe actually learn something about some of these guys and the criticisms of them when they came out. then, come back and re-read this post. let me know how embarrassed you are.

That was a beautiful destruction of an idiotic post.

wicket
02-14-2011, 05:37 PM
150 posts and 57 threads started tells you all you need to know

bigbluedefense
02-14-2011, 05:56 PM
There is some degree of truth to this. Let's be real, it's there.

But not for Cam Newton. All the knocks on him are absolutely warranted. But there is a degree of negative perception with black quarterbacks still to this day, I won't deny that.

You look at a guy like Josh Freeman, and then compare him to Blaine Gabbert, then you wonder why Gabbert is being considered so high this year and Freeman didn't get nearly as much love when he came out, when Freeman was essentially a better version of Gabbert, in pretty much every way.

It extends beyond quarterbacks though. There are key terms that are common and you notice the trend when comparing black prospects to white ones in their scouting reports.

It's a sensitive subject, and I'm sure there are great points to be made by both sides, but I do believe that race does play at the very least, a minute role in perception.

Think of it this way, if Tebow was black, would anyone give a damn?

Think about it.

I'm not jumping over the fence and screaming racism, but I think we would be naive to assume that it plays absolutely no role in evaluating prospects. It surely does. How big of a role is debatable, and I would go and say it's a minute role, but I'm not going to deny that it doesn't exist.

descendency
02-14-2011, 06:14 PM
I know it gets on my nerves with white WRs. Every half decent white WR is the next "Wes Welker."

This prompted me to jest "Bernard Berrian is a Randy Moss type WR... and by that I mean he's black."

Let's be honest. Half of sports is selling something to someone. Even if you don't care what race your actual players are, the media cares how they present them. There is a very small minority (you're looking at them) that care whether a black QB is like Peyton Manning because the black community doesn't rally around him. I'm not trying to sound racist, but I see a lot of black people wearing Vick, McNabb, and other black player's jerseys. I rarely see a Manning, Brady, or the like on a black guy (though Ben Roethlisberger is kind of popular among the blacks around here). That may not be true everywhere, but it seems like it is around here.

Because of all of the previous (successful) Black QBs, everyone thinks that are somewhere between Donovan McNabb and JaMarcus Russell (because of the media as well). Maybe you're really lucky and you get a Mike Vick comparison, but even that has a massively negative meaning after the "dog fighting" charges.

Roddoliver
02-14-2011, 06:18 PM
If you are a white RB, people think you are just a FB.

bigbluedefense
02-14-2011, 06:23 PM
It absolutely goes both ways, I agree.

And also, we never make player comparisons btw a black player and white guy.

Like stated, every good white WR is Wes Welker. Every big punishing white RB is Alstott or Riggins.

Every black qb is compared to other black qbs. White with White.

White guys are discriminated against at the RB position. Probably CB too. So it goes both ways.

I guess all this really says is that we still have a little ways to go as a society. *shrug*

bored of education
02-14-2011, 07:12 PM
Gabbert > Newton. prove me wrong, until then I am right. you must throw me off before I preove to you Gabbert > Newton. :D

DBNYDP
02-14-2011, 07:19 PM
There is a reason people don't have character concerns with Tim Tebow...
If you find anything you are more than welcome to share.

D-Unit
02-14-2011, 07:30 PM
Stop with the double standard talk. Do you think there are just blacks and whites that live in this world?

PossibleCabbage
02-14-2011, 08:48 PM
There are plenty of reasons to criticize Newton that are objective, and hence have nothing to do with his (or anybody else's race). This is a guy who has attempted only 292 passes at the DI college level. He worked exclusively from a wide open spread offense. He has faced felony charges for burglary, larceny and obstruction of justice and was suspended as a result. He faced expulsion from college due to allegations of academic impropriety-- three specific instances of cheating.

I will be critical of any quarterback prospect with that little experience, that little game tape that translates to the NFL game, and that many off-the-field issues, whether he's white, black, blue, orange, or green.

But, it's been said before that the easiest thing in the world at this time of the year is to come up with reasons why a quarterback, any quarterback, will fail at the NFL level. Right now, everybody looks like they'll fail if you look close enough but we know from experience that somebody will probably succeed. Who that will be and why depends on all sorts of information that nobody, least of all random message board people, have access to at this point.

But the fact that Newton is even being considered as a first round prospect, with almost certainly the shortest resume of any first round quarterback in history is testament to his considerable upside.

nepg
02-14-2011, 09:05 PM
WALL OF TEXT.

/argument!

Brent
02-14-2011, 09:10 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/idiotnumbr3/Cam-Newton-is-black-youre-racist-Never-a-miscommunication.jpg

A Perfect Score
02-14-2011, 09:41 PM
First off, I'd like to come out and say there are very few things on this board I enjoy more then watching njx absolutely tear apart some idiot's post that not only doesn't make sense, it's there solely for incendiary purposes. I've been one of the most staunch anti-Newton people on this board for the duration of this draft process and several times there has been the suggestion that I'm somehow racist because I refuse to forgive or forget Newton's past transgressions (Not that they were personal in any way, but most people in the pro-Newton column seem very ready to move on from his personal issues and disregard them).

Secondly, it's like everyone has said so far: Regardless of Newton's skin colour, someone who comes from that offense with those accuracy and footwork issues and those character concerns is going to be a prospect who garners dissenting opinions. We saw the EXACT SAME THING happen with Tim Tebow last year, except it was a stellar character instead of a questionable one separating him from a 3rd round grade and a 1st round grade from most everyone.

Raiderz4Life
02-14-2011, 10:18 PM
First off, I'd like to come out and say there are very few things on this board I enjoy more then watching njx absolutely tear apart some idiot's post that not only doesn't make sense, it's there solely for incendiary purposes. I've been one of the most staunch anti-Newton people on this board for the duration of this draft process and several times there has been the suggestion that I'm somehow racist because I refuse to forgive or forget Newton's past transgressions (Not that they were personal in any way, but most people in the pro-Newton column seem very ready to move on from his personal issues and disregard them).

Secondly, it's like everyone has said so far: Regardless of Newton's skin colour, someone who comes from that offense with those accuracy and footwork issues and those character concerns is going to be a prospect who garners dissenting opinions. We saw the EXACT SAME THING happen with Tim Tebow last year, except it was a stellar character instead of a questionable one separating him from a 3rd round grade and a 1st round grade from most everyone.

I agree with the bolded part 100%...one of my favorite things on this board as well lol....and i also agree with the rest of the post.

the natural
02-14-2011, 10:25 PM
If Cam manages to win a Super Bowl in the next few years he will get to meet America's first "mobile and athletic" President...:)

drowe
02-14-2011, 10:42 PM
If Cam manages to win a Super Bowl in the next few years he will get to meet America's first "mobile and athletic" President...:)

oh c'mon. that's funny.

FUNBUNCHER
02-14-2011, 11:19 PM
Football is one of the few nearly pure meritocracies in American society; it doesn't matter what anyone says, once given the opportunity (Peyton Hillis) if you prove you can do the job, the job is YOURS.

Subconsciously there may be and probably is stereotyping going on about Newton because of his race, but for the most part the criticisms are based on what he's done on and off the football field.

Yes he has his critics, and many supporters, but to a person if you asked all of them where they think he'll be drafted and not assess what they believe is Newton's true value as a prospect, most would say (I think) Cam will likely go in the top 15.

People IMO on this board at least make the attempt to give a thoughtful analysis about a prospect, and until a QB comes into the NFL out of a spread option offensive system in college and dominates the league, some people simply can't see that kind of QB being a 'safe' pick.

Yeah it's ridiculous to compare Cam to Russell, or even Leaf IMO, but as others have stated that may be due more to lazy, half-hearted analysis and less about a subtle racial bias.

Are there folks around here who are skeptical in general of Black QB prospects?

Of course.

Are they the majority?? I really don't think so.

If Cam had played for Georgia and threw for 4000 yards and 35 TDs in their pro style offense, they'd be comparing him to John Elway.
It's the system that's causing some to question Cam's transition to the pro game and less so his skin color.

However, I did have to think for a minute if Tebow had been Black, would his evaluation have been different??

Probably not.

Tebow was lambasted on this site and was widely considered to be a gimmick QB who couldn't get it done in the NFL. His throwing motion and arm strength were attacked, his supposed inability to read defenses, etc.

For the most part Tebow was labeled an athlete playing QB who might be better off switching to H-back.

Tebow is the 'Blackest' white QB to enter the NFL since Jake Plummer!!!

The best his supporters could offer is that Tebow's character and work ethic would allow him to eventually make the transition to the NFL at QB.

I don't think anyone had him going in the first round.
The rest is history.

If Tebow had been Black, would that analysis have been any different??

Would McDaniels have reached for him in the bottom of the 1st round??
Don't know.
But I do think he would have been drafted in the first 100 picks.

Black QBs may get extra scrutiny and doubts about how cerebral their approach to the game is, but is it any worse than it would be for a White cornerback, RB, WR or DT??
Most football fans are IMO generally bottom-line when it comes to prospects and if you get it done on Sundays and generate Ws, a player's race is the LAST thing on their mind.

Brothgar
02-15-2011, 12:46 AM
Honestly njx can be a real tool sometimes but I must say when someone says something this dumb I do smile a little and feel as though he said everything that I wanted to say after reading the OP.

The real question is; Is Gabbert getting too much of a pass? I mean he didn't exactly run a pro style offense either 4-5 wide most of the time his passes are usually made to less than 10 yards make the receiver make the play. I'm not sure why some draft analysts fail to mention the scheme in Gabberts case but not Newtons?

PossibleCabbage
02-15-2011, 01:25 AM
Gabbert's kind of #1 by default. He has fewer glaring issues than Newton (threw well over 300 passes, never once has he been on the hook for a felony), and we've had less time to pick him apart than Mallet or Locker.

the natural
02-15-2011, 01:36 AM
I don't think that Newton and Gabbert really fit any racial cliches that well. Other than the fact that Gabbert likes country music. But so does Aaron Williams. I still think that Gabbert will run a faster 40 than Newton, although he may not do the other drills as well. There isn't a huge difference one way or the other in their passing games. Then you have a mixed race guy like Colin Kaepernick. How do you pidgeonhole him? Josh Freeman looks mixed race as well. Sanchez is Mexican-American. I think that the pro personal guys at least, are color blind when it comes to evaluating prospects. But the fact that Newton and Gabbert are the two top QBs seemingly and are of different race helps the interest level. It is a stronger dynamic than Gabbert/Mallett would be. Or Newton/Pryor. Go with the flow and enjoy the ride.

fear the elf
02-15-2011, 09:21 AM
First off, I'd like to come out and say there are very few things on this board I enjoy more then watching njx absolutely tear apart some idiot's post that not only doesn't make sense, it's there solely for incendiary purposes. I've been one of the most staunch anti-Newton people on this board for the duration of this draft process and several times there has been the suggestion that I'm somehow racist because I refuse to forgive or forget Newton's past transgressions (Not that they were personal in any way, but most people in the pro-Newton column seem very ready to move on from his personal issues and disregard them).

Secondly, it's like everyone has said so far: Regardless of Newton's skin colour, someone who comes from that offense with those accuracy and footwork issues and those character concerns is going to be a prospect who garners dissenting opinions. We saw the EXACT SAME THING happen with Tim Tebow last year, except it was a stellar character instead of a questionable one separating him from a 3rd round grade and a 1st round grade from most everyone.

who spells color with a u? most likely racists also the british

TACKLE
02-15-2011, 09:38 AM
who spells color with a u? most likely racists, but also the british

That's how we roll in Canada ************.

A Perfect Score
02-15-2011, 09:55 AM
That's how we roll in Canada ************.

What he said. But with an extra cuss word in there somewhere.

bigbluedefense
02-15-2011, 09:58 AM
I just want to apologize to anyone I may have offended with my posts. That wasn't my intentions.

I in no way feel that the criticism of Cam Newton isn't warranted, it's absolutely justifiable, I was referring to other circumstances but perhaps used poor examples to defend my standpoint.

Anyway, regardless of the matter, my bad. Next time I'll think more subjectively before I say something.

fear the elf
02-15-2011, 11:12 AM
That's how we roll in Canada ************.

What he said. But with an extra cuss word in there somewhere.

**** Canadians. I think we can all agree they have questionable intelligence, adding u's where they don't belong.

:)

Bengals78
02-15-2011, 11:24 AM
First off, I'd like to come out and say there are very few things on this board I enjoy more then watching njx absolutely tear apart some idiot's post that not only doesn't make sense, it's there solely for incendiary purposes. I've been one of the most staunch anti-Newton people on this board for the duration of this draft process and several times there has been the suggestion that I'm somehow racist because I refuse to forgive or forget Newton's past transgressions (Not that they were personal in any way, but most people in the pro-Newton column seem very ready to move on from his personal issues and disregard them).

Secondly, it's like everyone has said so far: Regardless of Newton's skin colour, someone who comes from that offense with those accuracy and footwork issues and those character concerns is going to be a prospect who garners dissenting opinions. We saw the EXACT SAME THING happen with Tim Tebow last year, except it was a stellar character instead of a questionable one separating him from a 3rd round grade and a 1st round grade from most everyone.

Now you're calling being black a transgression? Harsh APS. Harsh. ;)

Dagagad
02-15-2011, 12:02 PM
I don't think there is discrimination against black QBs in the draft. NFL teams nowadays just want talent and don't care about color so much. I do think there are incremental social barriers stopping black kids becoming nfl qbs. There must be as it is a striking ratio of white to black QBs considering that it is otherwise a predominantly black sport. I would say it works something like this.

Culture: black kid with nfl potential will be encouraged to harness athletic ability over technique from early age at QB. Coaches not racist exactly as they are probably not even aware they are doing this. The same coaches would tend to downplay the athletic ability of white qb kid. This would be incremental coach to coach and through the years.

Wealth: black kid less likely to have rich parents who can afford to send them to qb camps. Ironically the impetus (poverty) that is the main reason the nfl is a predominantly black league is also a reason why there aren;t so many black qbs.

I'm sure there are many other reasons but it is an interesting subject. Something similar could be said about white RBs. How many kids were instantly linebackers because of their skin color?